This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Okay, so welcome everyone. We have Kat and Dean here. We have Howard, Charlie, Tony, and Heimel, and the guys who are on Zoom with us is Ann, David, George, Jane, and Sim. And if anyone joins us later, the more the merrier. If not, here we are. So, we usually start as you all might remember from a little introduction to nonduality which is really just a reminder of that which is already clear and obvious and that's the so-called truth of our own being that is known innately, intuitively, that is undeniable, is here, is already present, and is eternal. It's never not here. Anytime and every time you look, there you are.
There is a presence. There is awareness of existence. There is a clarity that you are. And without that presence or that consciousness, nothing else is. So, this one is foremost and primary and the most basic, the most basic, the most miraculous and luminous, no thing in the world because it isn't really a thing. It isn't a state. It isn't anything that could be in any way grasped or described. The way of describing it is through negatives. What it is not. So, it is not the shape and the size of the body. It is not the thinking. Why? Because the body is constantly changing and there is some knowingness or awareness witnessing that changes, registering the changes, the posture and the age and whatever the parameters, even the length of hair and all that stuff is constantly changing.
Changing also thoughts, thoughts, thoughts, feelings, emotions, they are flowing like clouds through the sky of awareness. So, there is something more primal, more primary than the changing phenomena, the screen that is invisible. It's like the nice analogy to it is, and I like to maybe abuse that analogy a little bit. Like you see in the big supermarkets, like you see in the big supermarkets, the glass wall or a glass door or even the surface of a mirror that you can't see. You can't see through, like glass is translucent, so it's invisible. So, something shows up on the glass. So, something shows up on the glass, a sticker is placed on the glass or a sign is placed on the glass.
Watch out. And because of that sign appearing on that glass, the glass is known. In the same way, whatever shows up in that omnipresence is pointing to the omnipresence. It couldn't have existed if not for that cognizing capacity or that registering capacity or that emptiness with the capacity to know. So, it doesn't really matter what appears. It doesn't really matter how your body looks, how your mind functions, what the content of your dream, whether you are living the drama or the comedy or a romance or a horror. Well, of course, it does matter for the dream character, which is inevitably part of the whole show and through which and as which that pure potentiality experiences itself.
Through that character, it can see, hear, taste, touch and smell. Through that character, it cognizes, it gives meanings, it wovens the stories, it dreams. So, it's not completely denying the so-called reality of the vehicle, of the vessel, but it is pointing to that which is prior to it. And it is about bringing it back and recognizing that which is a prerequisite for any dream to be cast, that glass, translucent space-like screen without which no drama, no comedy, no horror, no romance could ever be displayed. So, appreciating whatever arises from the perspective of celebrating the miracle of aliveness, celebrating the unspeakable luminosity of that amazing no-thingness, which appears as the 10,000 things, which appears as everything.
Not only takes the same thing, not only takes the sting away from the content, because some of the attention is relaxed, acknowledging and celebrating that because of which the content is even possible, but also making the content lighter. And it is not to say that when you have a toothache, that it is not going to hurt. Like, people have ideas, people have projections that there is a state, supreme state, if I achieve it one day, the grand enlightenment, if I achieve it, I will never feel pain, I will never fall sick, I will never die, I will never get angry, I will never get sad.
But those projections are just another dream cast on the screen, and they are only possible because you are. Because I am, because I am, there is a possibility of fantasizing about future in which enlightenment, everybody is going to bow down to me, and everybody is going to love me and celebrate me, and animals will come to me, and the flowers will open up for me, and the trees will be putting their branches down for me, and all the other grandiosity that comes from the imagination of the imagination of the imagination of the imagination of what the enlightened state is, which have one thing in common, it is not this, and that's not true.
Enlightenment is the realization that this is it, that there is nothing else but this, as it shows up, as it appears. And this is overlaid with the interpretation and meaning that is given to it by that narrative software that has been installed early on, and it is a navigational aid which has its place, and it is a wonderful navigational aid. And it is also to be celebrated, but it is not to be put in a position of the master, it is not to be given an authority to call the map a territory. Mind doesn't know, it can't know. The language model, the narrative function cannot touch, grasp, or experience the reality.
It is, it isn't, it's like a sticker on that glass, to be a glass, to experience the glass. The attention is withdrawn from the mind, it's withdrawn from whatever is written, whatever is signed. And the way I was actually presented with that analogy was a little variation from the old scriptures. It was shown, was the sign on the glass door or a glass wall saying, there is a God. And now people focus on the sign, there is a God. I believe it. But what if the sign would say there is no God? So now the associations and what Bob used to say and warn people about that word, the word God and the mental imagery that comes around associated from a religious background for whatever we were brought up to believe the God was.
So what if the sign on the glass says there is a glass, it has less associations, it still points out to that surface or to that presence. And what if the sign says there is no glass, makes no difference, doesn't. So this is to point out whatever the mind comes up with, whatever the mind defines or believes, makes no difference. The one and sole purpose of the existence of any appearance on that glass is to point out the existence of the glass. So whether the sign says, I'm living in a nightmare, I want to die, or the sign says, oh, I'm enlightened, life is fantastic.
It doesn't matter what the mind says. It doesn't matter what the content is. Ultimately, the purpose of life is already, as of now, fulfilled to the brain. The aliveness is known. You are alive. You can't deny it. I mean, you can, but this will be just a sign on the glass. I deny it. But you have to be there to deny it. So the essence of existence, the life itself, you are not dead, you are not unconscious, you are not unaware. The omnipresence is glimpsing its own existence. That's how the pure potentiality, that infinite field of presence, suddenly, ah, I am. Now, it comes with the package.
I am here. I am in this body. I'm looking from that angle, I'm not that one. I'm experiencing this skin, or this meat, or this thoughts, or this projections, or this memories, or this preferences. But that's just what's written on the glass. The glass, it's already here. It's shining of its own. It's luminous. It's radiant. The existence is already known. Well, that's good news. Yes. Isn't that fantastic news? It's beautiful. That's it. So anything on the glass, like anything that comes up as a thought, an idea, as a, this is what it is, or this is reality, or this is who I am, or that is who, what that is, is written on the glass.
Yeah. Secondary importance. Of secondary importance. And if we look around, we can see, and I have a lot of individual calls and email correspondence with people who say, yes, but, yes, but, and then, you know, I'm getting old, I don't want to die, or my health is deteriorating, or I'm lonely, I need to have a boyfriend or girlfriend, or I need more money, I'm losing a job. And those things completely steal the show, completely overcast the miraculous fact that this happens because I am, because there is a consciousness present here. And this is not a small thing. It looks like, yeah, well, for the mind, it's taken for granted.
Not a big deal. Yeah, consciousness is their soul. So, but really, relaxing that dysregulated, exaggerated, dramatized attachment to the content of the story of me, to the point in which the whole landscape is acknowledged. And then, just taking a breath, and wow, wow, it's like watching any sort of movie or any sort of entertainment and seeing that, wow, it really isn't a small thing to be. So, attending to those things still happens, if we look at the animals, which are a magnificent example of living persistently in the natural state, and we have a couple of more people, oh, yeah, we have animal living in a natural state, they're basking in the sunlight.
And we have a couple of more people, oh, yeah, we have a couple of more people, oh, yeah, we have a couple of more people joined us on Zoom. And welcome John and Anand and David and everyone. Yes, so, if anyone is at any point inclined to direct that investigation one way or another, ask the question, interrupt, elaborate, anyone and everyone is welcome. That's the basic predicament of those gatherings. We are exploring that which is already clear. We can't teach anyone anything because you probably have much more wisdom and knowledge about 10,000 things that I would ever want to have. And that which it is pointing to can't be taught and doesn't have to be thought because it's already clear, it's just not recognized, it's just clouded by the overlay of that drama cast on that screen.
So, relaxing the attention from the content and resting it in pure presence is not exactly any sort of a mindfulness or groundedness practice, it's not about that. Life is living, life is moving, just like the animal is moving. And so are we, we are no different. The bodies are being moved. When the body feels the urge to drink the water, it is being moved. Sometimes it comes with the translation to a thought. Sometimes it just happens spontaneously, depends how much charge it is there in the narrative, in the commentary. But generally, just like the animal will go or bird will build the nest and find the mate and look after the youngs and keep the fur clean, the same way we humans are also being moved.
This self-organizing universe also moved humans to develop the language, moved humans to gather in the tribes and societies and nations. And that is same self-organizing principle or same power or same omnipotence which moves the galaxies and stars and cells in the body. This cat is relentless in harassing people who don't like cats. Sorry, Heyman. And he is moved to do that. He's just somehow attracted to whatever. Yeah, well, I love him and he's moved to come to me too. It's really a mystery. Yeah, he's the shape that the omnipresence has taken to experience the miracle of its own existence. And so is this and this and this and everything else.
And marveling at that shape and the wonder of the human mind at work, creating the stories, making meaning to navigate smoothly. And the smooth navigation is not always smooth as we know because in the appearance, in the duality, to know the day, we have to know the night, to know the sadness, we have to know joy, to know the pleasure, we have to know pain. Somehow for anything to be experienced, it can be experienced and it can only be experienced. Thank you. Thank you. In contrast to its opposite. And we have more people joining us on Zoom. Welcome, Belinda. And if there is anyone on Zoom who hasn't been with us before, welcome.
And if some of the names are the names that we did know before, welcome nonetheless. Is the One Essence appearing, expressing, experiencing as everything. And what's the same and what's One is the Aliveness, is the Consciousness. It's that which is not even a thing, but it can't differ. It can't differ between the cat and dean and tree, because it has no qualities. The only thing that makes any difference between sense of being appearing anywhere, being of the immaterial object, or being of a pillow, or being of a person, or being of the whole nation, or the whole galaxy. It could only be differentiated if it had qualities.
But it doesn't. It's not that my being is warmer than yours, or is wider or brighter or darker. No. Being has absolutely no qualities. So it is just one being appearing in many shapes and forms and patterns. And of course, other people might have other definitions of being. And then, of course, based in other definitions, there will be other descriptions. But here, when we just again go back to the base, pointing at that base, to that basic screen, to that basic awareness, in which all differences and all differentiations appear as an overlay. Because I am, I can argue. Because I am, I can make the differences.
I can imagine the future. I can brood in the past. I can hope for something else. I can most of all imagine that there is a person. Not that I'm the doer of it. This is again all happening on autopilot. Just like this cat is moved by whatever the energy is persistent in the room, it is moved, it's attracted and it's repelled. Just like a newborn baby is attracted and it's repelled. It may be attracted to certain sounds or certain frequency of lights or smell and repelled. That attraction and repulsion is that primary movement. And it happens in 10,000 ways. And if you see that automatically functioning, meaning-making machinery called mind, the bio-computer called mind, and you see that primary movement towards pleasure away from pain, the responding to a stimuli in the way that will be the most conducive for survival, safety and pleasure.
And the moving away from that which is threatening. That very, very basic mechanism which even moves the fronts in the nature, the waves, always towards the balance and safety and self-preservation. Watching that mind doing it in 10,000 ways is the free entertainment forever. It's absolutely mind-blowing. It's amazing. And also, without taking any credit for actions, seeing where the attention is being drawn, where it is moving. Maybe moving towards learning medicine or moving towards learning hypnosis or towards romance or towards making money. None of that is in any way any of doing of the imagined self. It's just that natural tendency, attraction and repulsion. Some people are attracted to learning particular dance or flying the jet plane or reading books.
How did they choose it? How did they decide it? Are they responsible? It's the natural movement just again like the weather. And seeing it as naturally, spontaneously occurring movement of attention, again, brings flow to life, opens up the curiosity. What is my next thought going to be? What is my next movement of attention going to be? Where are the eyes going to land? What are the ears going to pick up? This is an incredible vessel for the consciousness to see its own reflection. What is it drawn to? What is it repelled from? What's threatening it? And without even labeling the responses, what are they? And watching the next words that are written on the mirror.
Yes. Yes. Mirror is a fantastic metaphor also. The glass is good in a way because it's translucent. You can't see. Same as space. It's a beautiful metaphor also because, you know, consciousness is like space. It's invisible and yet it's undeniable. Though space, you can somehow, you know, like conceptualize all those words sooner or later will get associations and will be useless. Like the word God was used for centuries and now is pretty useless because it's so loaded with associations. So some would say, you know, God is love or love is God. Love is a beautiful, beautiful word and it's a beautiful sort of like it signifies the energy of unconditional acceptance of everything that arises, including pain, including anger.
I know this is what I was going to say in the second half of the sentence. Okay. Okay. That I know people for who this word is not just loaded, it's traumatizing. It's the word that causes outburst of fury. I was attacked here in those meetings about eight or nine years ago when I pointed out to, quoting actually, quoting Nisargadatta, pointing out to the nature of any expression of energy being a love of being. The woman nearly pulled my head out of my head. Fuck, this is wrong. And you can see the attachment to pain and suffering. There is no love. No, it's just fear.
It's just longing for love. That's a complete denial of the word. Either way, yes, the word is equally charged. That's why less charged words Bob would offer to point to it. Energy. Okay. Just the energy, just the flow of energy. Energy in its potential state neither exists nor it doesn't. It's a pretty good word. He would add the description, that was the description that Krishnamurti offered, intelligence. Because there is a brilliance, there is an intelligence to that energy. It flows and organizes itself. Another loaded word. Okay. Elaborate. Intelligence. There's a whole range of intelligence. The least intelligent, the greatest intelligence. And all the associations with that.
Mm-hmm. That's what I mean by loaded word. Yeah. I guess every word can be loaded. Exactly. Depending on the upbringing and the conditioning and the circumstances, that particular word will hit someone loaded. And your perceptual interpretation of that. Yes. Yes. But for the general purposes, I thought Bob picked words that were sort of as inert as possible. You could sort of see that with Bob. You could get a sense of that. Mm-hmm. Because that's the sort of weight that he carried. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But bringing it back to the simplicity of the word is not the thing. Yeah. You know? That's really fundamental. Like no word.
The word fire can't burn, can't warm, can't heat, can't do anything because it's just a word. Another word written on the mirror. There's no syntax to pure existence. Mm-hmm. It's that simple. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And yet, you know, there is a natural attraction and there is a natural joy in trying to put into words that which is so beyond language, so beyond mind. Because what the words are doing, you know, they are finger pointing at the moon. So we don't hang on to that finger. We look to the moon. And of course, this again metaphor, beautiful metaphor that has its limitation. Moon is out there, far away.
While this is right here, it can't be closer, it's nothing closer, that this sense of existence, sense of presence, undeniable fact that I'm not dead, I'm not unconscious, I am here. What I am, what does it mean, how long, where did I come from, where am I going, what's my goal, purpose, meaning, that stuff is added. But because I am, those stories can go. And this is not a moon far away, it's closer than your breath. And you can say, it is I am, the sense I am. But those two words, I am, already too far away. I am is just another limited pointer. Pure existence, being, or like Hindu says, Sat Chitananda, being consciousness, bliss, or being, knowing that I am, and having a preference for being.
The survival instinct, the preference, don't want to die, it's like appreciation. And the less of the destruction by the Maya or the Nama Rupa, the name and form, involvement in the content of the drama, preference, no, I want more pleasure, I want less pain, the less of that destruction, the more the love of being shines forth to the point, then, you know, the energy does not get dispersed into those distractions. The seriousness of distractions goes down. You want to say something, Howard? I'm going to just pass the mic? Uh-oh. Saying something about it, yeah, it's quite difficult to actually put into words, of course. But I was loving your description of the love, really.
Um, it's pretty undeniable. Um, even if you deny it, it's like... Like, I wasn't denying it. No. Yeah, all words are loaded, yeah. Yeah, I get that, like, love and... Yeah, because... But you know... People do all sorts of things in the name of love, so that's... Yeah. But it's... As Kat was saying, it's pretty amazing just being alive, like, to... How simple that is to... To... Like, everyone's trying to get to that, or... And yet, it already is here, like, immediately. Um... And the... There is a resonance with that energy, and when you're speaking it, or anyone... We're speaking it, it... It... It moves the energy, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. So... Um... And it moved me to come here, and, you know, it... Mm. It's something that we can't, um, describe, or put into words, or... Really even understand, you know, intellectually, mentally, or... So... And... And that intelligence is the same thing, you know? Yeah. It... It's... Wow. Yeah. It's very... Um... For a human to try and... You know, a literal human pin speck in the universe to... To... Comprehend the universe. Comprehend. Yeah. Or... Yeah. Amazing, really. So... It's like every... Every... Word on that... On that mirror. Mm-hmm. Like, every possible description, every... Every sentence is structured, like, you know, is... Is... Is representing...
Is... Is... Is me, and time, and... And... And... Continuity, and the story, and... All these words. Or, like, these words may be describing non-duality, or describing the essence of reality, or... Whatever... However profound, or brilliant these words are, like, I think... The... The... You know... Fundamentally, all words collapse into that... And... And... They have absolutely no... No real substance whatsoever. Mm-hmm. Beyond... Description of presence. And yet, it's inclusive of every description, in... In... In... In other sense. There's no description that can be excluded. But it's not a description. It's... It's that which allows... Descriptions... Mm-hmm. It's the same thing with science. Yeah. There's a... There's a quote on the beginning of a Korean drama, unsourced, but I don't know where it comes from.
It said there's only two things that are endless. One... One is the universe, and the other is human stupidity. Yeah. Yeah. That's... That's brilliant. And I have... Actually, we have ten people with us on Zoom, and there is a few people with us who are on Facebook. No one's commenting on Facebook. But if you guys want to consider hopping in and getting... Getting that link from www.salobob.com slash meetings, and join us here, that would be lovely to actually hear you. But that's just an invitation. It's like, you know, you... I'm happy for... Whatever. Just happy. That's... That's the natural state. And again, getting back to even that attraction towards exploring that nature of aliveness, the nature of consciousness, which is totally beyond grasp.
And yet, bringing the attention back from the distractions into that radiant miraculousness, and the joy that comes with it. I think this one is... Oops, this truck thing. She's looking for me. Oh, um, Kat. Oh, Ann. Oh, hi, Ann. Would you like to say something? Would you like to add something? Ask question? I just... I suppose I just wanted to elaborate on the point that was just made before about the tangibility of the experience of, you know, what happens when you begin pointing, and then this sort of soft joy emerges, and it happens on Zoom. You know, like, it's pretty mysterious and marvellous, isn't it?
Yes. Yes. Thank you. It's like coming home. It's like, you know, life distracts us in so many ways. Things need attending. The attention goes onto this focus, laser-focused mode, and there's no problem in that. It's perfectly self-organizing. But when the attention is free, it can literally just... Disperse. Just like the vision, you know, when you read the book and you follow the words with just laser focus. But when there is a possibility of just opening the peripheral sort of a vision and embracing the whole field of the gaze, there is something really relaxing in the the whole field of the space, and it's definitely something that is really sweet and satisfying.
And also, I had an experience of... I've heard it a couple of times. I don't usually listen to conversations when Bob had private conversations. That would be my time to go for a brisk walk or something. But occasionally I would hear the word as I was putting the shoes on and I can tell you, people who had brilliant clarity 20 years ago and never read another book and never questioned and looked into the nature of the mind because, oh, I've got it so I can get on with my life. Well, suddenly this mind came back with all those strong definitions and descriptions of the map, that the map was mixed up to be a territory again.
So somehow not only there is a beautiful, rewarding quality of hanging up in that, but I think George pointed it out once, you know, the sat-sangha, you know, the sangha, the company of people who are attracted to the same undistracted non-meditation, the non-distracted sort of joy or luminosity of being and just amplifying, bringing that energy back home. There is something not only really naturally enjoyable about it, but it also grounds, put the mind in the right perspective, keeps it in the position of a servant rather than the master. And it has nothing to do with seeking. See, I had also quite a few conversations with people who join us on Zoom.
We have two more Zoom meetings in the evenings where Europeans can join and one more Zoom that is happening tomorrow. Julia is hosting it for people from States. People ask, okay, I shouldn't be coming here because I've got it. So it feels like I'm still seeking. Ooh, that's a concept. That's an interesting concept. So you think you have a choice to show up and to do something and to go somewhere. Well, perhaps you call it appropriately. You've got it. Yeah, that's a seeking. The concept that there is a me who should or should not show up in certain place, read or not to read certain book or behave in a particular way is the mind in a position of a master.
It's not the advisor that says, hey, look, this is what's happening. Oh, I'm here. Wow. That's interesting. Oh, I'm opening a book. Wow. That's fantastic. That's amazing. Wow. Oh, that's just neutral, completely neutral. That's just what's happening. Neither good nor bad, really. It's just discovering the happening as is happening without necessarily assigning myself a doership role. I'm doing it. I shouldn't because that's the delusion. That's the delusion of grandeur. I am my mind and I am in power. I can make my decisions and choices, not entirely untruth. Because if you consider yourself to be the life force and your choice is that whatever you're looking, that's the way, the shape, the size, the form the universe is bringing.
If you believe in a conspiracy, well, that's your choice, conspiracies. But this is usually mixed up with the delusion of grandeur because people consider myself. This is me, a person, a little miniature here that is believing to have the decision making power or choice. I'm sitting at the cinema watching a movie, but I don't need to be here. I'm so non-dual. I don't actually have to be here at all. But I'm watching it. Watching it's happening. I mean, it's all a joke. All the narrative around it and the story around it. And it's just, yeah, absolute conceptual. Everything that's been really discussed is everything that we're talking about is, even though it's discussed in concepts, it's non-conceptual.
Yeah. It's completely and totally non-conceptual. This presence is non-conceptual, yet it can only be discussed through the concepts themselves. And Jyoti has got a comment. Yeah. Jyoti says, enjoying the spiel and the discussion, human desires are endless too. Yeah. And even exploring human desires. Thank you, Jyoti. It's a lovely avenue to just, again, discover how the bio-computer, how that narrative program works. And also to bring back the humbling realization that every desire is a love of being appearing as a desire. I desire, you know, like even those grandiosity ideas about enlightenment. Oh, I want everyone to worship me. Oh, I want everyone to bow down.
I want the animals to come and pay their honors or something like that. You know, ridiculous. Those ideas of what enlightenment is are kind of cute and sweet and funny and ridiculous at the same time. A lot of judgments, right? At the same time, if not for the love of being, if not for the loving care, they wouldn't even appear. The desire for this body to be safe and to experience pleasure and security and friendships and whatever the desire comes up is always because there is a software already installed inherently assigned to providing any form of that loving care. Sometimes it may show up as an eruption of a volcano standing up and swearing and throwing everyone out to defend the idea of power, of personal power if someone was violated.
Sometimes even the cruelty for the same reason, whatever the desire and whatever the response, it is always some modification of that primal energy. The sad chit ananda being, knowing, loving to be modified to suit the survival instinct in the environment, which is not always, it's not always that easy. You know, the individuality there is a day and night and winter and summer and the winter is cold and in the summer may be hot. Just like you look in nature. Just like you look in nature. And I think there is one more comment here. Hmm. Nope. There isn't. There's common pushbacks to that kind of, you know, it's like I come across people that are constantly saying, well, how can my love of being be taking me to a place where it continues to traumatize?
You know, as it continues to be, you know, detrimental and unsafe and all those kinds of things. How is that my love of being? Like everything's, everything's making me unsafe. Everything's making me hate it. Everything's making me, you know, everything's traumatizing. Yeah. And I keep going. I keep gravitating. I keep being attracted to those, to those kinds of things. Yeah. Just a common pushback. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Self-sabotage. I've seen people who were going on the brink of being really, really successful and really getting the love of their life and the job and everything going for them. And then the pattern of sabotage comes in and breaks it down to the point of safety, where I know where my place is.
The concept here of, no, I don't deserve that. I feel more comfortable in a place where I'm safe. I don't want to fall from the high horse, watching the mind and seeing how it functions and seeing all those amazing intricacies of the strategies of behaviors. Your behaviors. Your behaviors. It's fascinating to look at everyone else and recognize it too, but it's not necessary by any stretch of things. It's enough to just stay present and open and curious and see how your own bio computer, your own processor assign meanings to the things. And also see what obscures that, what obscures that sense of existence, that joy of being that is naturally here.
What causes that pushback? You know, why am I constantly attracted to something? Why am I picking up? Why am I picking up? I divorced my husband who beat me and who was drinking and now I'm marrying the same guy and the same guy over and over. What's going on? What's wrong with me? Yes. Those type of stories are also cast on that glass door or on that basic screen. And those stories are also a beautiful way in which that omnipotence or that pure potentiality experiences its own existence, glimpses its own existence and shows itself and dance itself in the role of a victim, in the role of someone who is suffering way, way more than anyone else.
We can see it again in the world of nature, you know, how much more the animals pushed into extinction or farm animals suffer than any human that we could think of. Even humans being tortured during a Holocaust. We are having a better face for the animals we eat than, yeah, let's face it, but that's just an example because again, this is the mental image or a story. What obscures it? You will see that will always be a cloud of an idea of what is not right now. Not right now. Right now is nothing wrong. Right now. Heart is beating. The breath is taking. The seeing is happening.
Peripheral vision also. The hearing is happening. Tasting, touching, smell, all of this happening. And imagining is also happening. But imagining is always about not now. So all those pushbacks. Why am I marrying the same guy over and over? Why am I losing a job after job? Why am I being abused or whatever? Not right now. Engaging and giving attention, giving this precious life force to that which is not happening right now. Not only trains the machine to stay in a master's position and not to be present with what is happening, but also trains it to focus particularly on this. I mean, it's like almost like, you know, the attention.
Again, you can't differentiate or can't divide the attention from what it is attending to. Just like you can't divide the seeing from what is being seen. If you remove everything from the visual field, there is no seeing. So if you remove anything from the field of attention, there is no attending. Attention is the life force. So right now there is nothing behind me. I look, ooh, my attention has just created that private universe that has been experienced. Attention is animating the life. It is the life force. And it isn't separate. It isn't an energy that is given to some object that exists. Attending is the, like, for example, until I think about tomorrow, it has no existence.
Until I think of yesterday, it has no existence in the direct experience. It exists right now as a thought. The whole past exists as a thought. The whole future exists as a thought. 10,000 things, all the possible scenarios of what can go wrong and how, exist as a thought. What an incredible... And when is that thought? Exactly. Where is that thought? Like, it's so immediate. It's so close. It's so... It's actually, like, the foundation in which all the experience occurs in. And it's so incredibly now. Like, it's beyond now because now implies past and future. You know, now is not really a really good... It's a loaded word, in a sense.
But, yeah, the immediacy in this now, like, exactly like... The Big Bang is now. It can't be other than now. Like, there's no... You can talk about billions of years and eons and time and space and dimensions. And everything is now. And I love, you know, like, this attention. It's like this amazing... Like, there's this incredible blank canvas of nothing. Absolute empty nothing. Not even space. It's sort of nothing. And in that, like, the attention attends and illuminates and brings anything it attends to, to life. Whether it's object, whether it's space, whether it's distance, whether it's time, whether it's a thought. Whatever it is, like, the attention illuminates.
It's like this paintbrush that's painting the blank canvas. And, oh, put a little star there and a moon there and a planet there and a me here and a you there and an idea about a me here. And, wow, the blank canvas and just being, you know, attended and painted and sort of orchestrated by attention. And who is... What is moving the attention in that particular manner, in that particular unique way in which it seems to move? And even the movement really is... It's actually not even... Like, that's even moved too far away from describing it correctly because it's spontaneous. It's absolutely spontaneous. And everything exists in that spontaneous, now, immediateness.
Everything's existing in it. It contains everything. And it can't be... It can't get out of it. There's no way out of it. There's nothing that has ever been away or apart or, you know, not included in it because it's all inclusive. That's why it's omnipotent. Like, it's... It can't... It can't be separated. It can't be broken down. It can't be... It's always occurring. Whatever's occurring in that. And you are that. And it animates, you know, that painting. You know, the moment you put the dots, it comes to life. It's like... That's why they call it God sometimes. The creator. The creative power. The energy of creation.
Wherever that energy of creation in the form of attention shows or flashes, it comes to life. And the more it focuses... We all know from science, which is just another way of expressing it. You know, you focus into the minutest particle, the atom. And it's more and more and more. Just like this, you know, fractal dancing, the Mandelbrot fractal. The more attention, the more details. They are showing up as the attention goes, dives there. You're going to dive into the intricacies of your relationship with health or with money. You're going to dive into the politics. Wow! There will be more and more and more to explore.
And that's all the expression of that life essence. So prolific. So amazing. It can only happen because you are. Because you're here. Because that attention can move through that aliveness. It can explore. But the moment it forgets and starts taking for granted the fact of the miracle of its own presence. And it gets lost in those intricacies. Then again, preferences naturally existing. The likes, dislikes naturally existing will assume and solidify the reference point. And when the things are going according to the reference point preferences, life is good. When the things are going against the reference point preferences, life is hell. And the fact that life is full stop is out of sight.
And that's why coming here and exploring the miraculousness of existence without which no movie can be seen. And remembering that what is actually experienced, that incredible dream, that incredible aliveness, is just a temporary transformation of the life force or that attention showing up as a room. Last night it was showing up as something else. If you were dreaming, it was showing up as something else. Attention was showing up as a classroom or a ballroom or whatever it was. How amazing is that? And it can only exist because you are. Without that essence of presence, no dream is ever possible. So seeing the dream from the perspective of ah, this is how the miracle of existence is expressing itself at the moment.
And now if the reference point comes with it, yeah, yeah, but I don't like the expression. Aha, this is how it expresses, including the dislike of the expression. That dislike isn't anything wrong. It's just another form of the appearance. Yeah, yeah, but it proves that the me is real. It doesn't prove anything. It doesn't. The fact that my car has preference to be pat has preference to be pat and to be kicked doesn't prove that there is a mini cat there running a show. It's so natural and it's so simple. And a cat does not have any of such concepts. It just moves with life.
It doesn't imagine past and future because it's computer there as far as we know doesn't have that capacity. And our biocomputer in this particular machine does. What an incredible capacity. But again, seeing it in its right perspective brings joy rather than the madness and suffering. And this is basically the offering. The joy of being. The joy of being, yeah. I can see more people joining on Facebook, but no one's commenting. I wonder if any one of you guys here, George, John, John, John, John, John, John, Jay, David Belinda. Anyone? Hello? Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. You have a mic. Would you I was just is yeah, I was just experiencing like we were talking about trauma and pain and all that sort of stuff and reactions and being present to the pain and the there's actually transform it transforms it can be i mean it's like a fine line between pain and pleasure really it's like or suffering you can suffer your experience or um that's more like a a mental um cause of that but but um yeah it's so hard to describe it's impossible to describe but it's like the um it's like the the desire to change it causes it the desire to fix it you know makes it more the and but and yet it's automatic that desire to you know it's like this automaticity of it's almost like how things formulate you know the resistance to it it's like a um sort of ironic you know the whole urge is to make it better and change it and fix it and make it more and bigger and better and and yet uh yeah you mentioned the science you know like there's a guy laszlo who's pointing to in formation it's called you know which it's so it's sort of not just this black and white cause and effect thing it's like it's all a self-creating reality that's where we are that that's self-creating self-perpetuating um so it's not like linear it's not it's like multi-dimensional it's uh the creation is multi-dimensional and and yet it's all appearance and coming and going and i mean you put you're talking of trauma but then right now you know so again that's all it involves mental conception even you know seemingly permanent set things are actually also just conceptual so well that's the nature of the whole thing so um yeah pretty amazing um i remember working on some trauma and people and as a therapist and you know looking for the initial sensitizing event and and to you know and and there's some merit in in that kind of work but but isn't it funny to to say ah this particular moment this was the initial sensitizing event but yet like you like you're sort of pointing out the whole of creation has actually created that initial sensitizing event and and created the conditions before it and created every little thing that's moving after that so is there an how can there be an initial sensitizing event when every event is an initial sensitizing event in one in another sense but the big bang is an initial sensitizing event exactly it's just another way of sort of explaining and not not discarding it either but yeah it it's mind-blowing it really blows the mind apart like of of trying to find answers or trying to join dots and um even though all that kind of stuff can can play out as well you know somehow there's an awareness of the mind blowing you know it's like yeah yeah but where um like where can you be aware of that away what's aware of awareness you know it's like yeah awareness is aware of awareness you know it's like uh yeah i do really love that you pointed out the i never heard it before but it's really fresh in formation the world is in a state in constant formation you know is dreaming is moving is flowing that which is real is that which never changes so this that is moving forming and deforming and out of me is the is the appearance is the dream is maya is illusion because it's changing it's not real it's fleeting where is yesterday where is tomorrow where is science when i don't think about it and the idea that there is an objective reality out there that there is a world to which i was born as a little baby and i am changing while the world is solid out there wow what a wonderful governing rule for upping the game of the dream now we are dreaming a collective solid reality collective solid reality in which the earth is round or flat depending on the era in which in a medicine you know the penicillin is gonna save you or kill you depending on the era and well the magnificent story projected the idea that i am this changing vehicle and the world out there is solid and i am limited i have time i have expired date i was born and i will get old and i will die and therefore my survival instinct is now locked into preserving it not wanting to die wanting to heal it wanting to give it as much of goodness and love and pleasure and health and money and recognition whatever i find good wow it must be real because like i you know their thoughts and and everyone else has the same and everyone else confirms and everyone else like reinforces it so well it has to be true it's solid it's just another another story it's just another appearance it's like is that really true like is that is there any any substance to it like that's what we want to believe learn to believe study to believe go to societies yeah yeah it's very believable yes it is it's a compelling brilliant story to go along with it really like there's this sort of these forces as well and like we're and and and yet you know like the the indians say we've really you know there's lifetime after a lifetime you guys and time is actually a a creation as well a concept and therefore all the lives are here now and and not here at the same time so it's you know and that's our whole version you know that's a whole version of reality and yet we we just say we're this body and this life and this time and this is it this is it and and we're very self-centered and it revolves around you know everything revolves around this this little one here sort of thing but yeah yeah beautiful beautiful and that even even that little you know like self-centeredness that little constellation you know in which i am the hero of the story i am the sunlight of the spirit i am is god and that i am resides here even that has its own sweetness totally yeah it's um there's kind of no other way really than i to experience that's it yes self there have to be a sign on the glass yeah otherwise the glass is unexperienceable and even the idea that you know that infinite potentiality wants to experience itself as a form or as actuality or as existence itself it's just another thought but it's quite self-evidence that it does yeah i am that's it so to say oh it does it because it wants it no that's the story but hey i'm here how amazing alive is alive whatever the concepts appear on the glass whatever is written on the screen whatever is cast whatever the dream appearing is the is the fulfillment of the original cause or original purpose of the of the whole existence yeah that's amazing you were at the start of this meeting there was sort of like there was talk of love and intelligence and but it's it's sort of it's awesome you know it's like and i think you were saying also you know we just take it for granted and but the awesomeness of the universe and of the experience of and of the self and of the self-experiencing self as and love love loving love you know it's like love just that um yeah in the religions they sort of use i guess it's like a sacredness about it to to express the appreciation holiness of what is the holiness the grace grace yeah yeah um there's a whole language for it there you know sort of brought up as kind of atheist sort of um political scientific doesn't really allow holiness or religious expression i i expect but it's not about a religion it's it's about that thing of something that's much simpler than um and yet the language is very useful to point to that um that grace and that beauty and peace of yeah just the value that you know like just the exquisiteness of of being um that's what we're here for i can't i can't say it any other way but i can't see anything you know that for me that's what we're here for you know it's and um even a little bit of that is enough you know so yeah i'm loving that yeah that's like that's the basis of like the non-dual meetings you know like that yeah but it's it also you don't need to come to it through a non-dual meeting either like it's everyone's birthright it's everyone's you can come through it through a tragedy or or through through means of nothing not related and and where you know he could come through it through chemical changes in in in the brain or caused by the gut or something that was eden or environmental or whatever even that is simplistic way of describing things because the whole universe has created that as well but you know you could go into an accident and all of a sudden a shift in in in the way things are seen just through some sort of you know trauma or whatever and everything that it was once believed to be true can just evaporate and all all of a sudden it's like wow this is it this is the immediacy of now and and this is the eternalness of now is always there so it's everyone's birthright but non-duality is fantastic because it's an opportunity and some people are drawn to non-dual meetings to to and it and that resonation that that vibration that it's a chord and and and there's a there's a funny vibration and it yeah it really is it's about it's about resonating because again like bob would often start every meeting by reminding people that he's got absolutely nothing to teach absolutely nothing that anyone needs to learn it's just recognizing that which is already present within everyone otherwise they couldn't even attempt to imagine that they have to learn something okay there's a lot of words yeah yeah good one charlie nothing nothing to teach yes yes yes yes yeah elaborate dispute it i love when you do it come on come on stay please please please nothing in terms of nothing ordinary nothing in terms of no thing yes yes that's the that's the differentiation i'm making and i know where you're heading charlie and and yes you're right you know it is almost offensive when i used to be immersed in psychological suffering and i would come to bob's meetings and he would say he has nothing to give me i said you living in persistent state of joy and appreciation and i'm in suffering and misery i'm coming here to say that it's been long time it's been a while but i i did when i came to him in in and i don't cry in public when i came to him for my individual meeting i was so devastated and broken and depressed for so long that i would cry for an hour in in front of him it's just it's not something that many very many people in in in my whole dream have ever seen that is that has been that it hasn't happened in a very very long time but yes i do actually and i do appreciate what you point yes to say and when he was saying it look i have nothing to teach you and i say how dare you you're living in light in joy you are old your body is falling apart your wife died four years ago you're not experiencing grief you're not experiencing misery you're not living in a persistent relieving of your trauma you're not fearing the future in which you're gonna get more sick what the heck what do you mean you have nothing to teach me i want to be like that and i'm not so hello yeah that's uh that's yeah but that nothing
Oh, shit, I've lost it.
I'm trying, I thought. So irritating. That was like a really, you know, when Bob's teaching is profound and is beautiful. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I'll just, yeah. You know, like something sort of, you know, those words on the mirror that we started the whole conversation with. Bob's words, Jesus's words, the Buddha's words are still words on the mirror as profoundly and as brilliant and as magnificent. Right. And eventually, no matter if it's a narrative, no matter if it's a profound insight, no matter if it's the most divine pointer, they are all still words of the mirror. And when that seems to be, like, recognised as such, then there is no one that can teach anyone anything, you know?
Like, because they are just words and it's all appearing in the sense of presence. That's right. That's if you want to get something like Kat did. Well. Right, in that situation, she wanted something and he said, I've got nothing to teach you. But what did he mean by nothing? I just described it. No, because you want something, you don't, it's not in the ide fixe. You want something tangible. And Bob said, I have nothing to teach. That's exactly what he's teaching. Yep. That's my point. Yeah. People want practice. What do I do? How do I get there? Give me a prescription. What do I do?
And, well. That's a loaded question, Kat. Yeah. It's at least a thousand hours of meditation to begin with. Oh, totally. Frustrations. Yeah. Kiss my lotus feet. Eat only particular food, depending on the current fashion that the guru is, yeah. It's actually very rare that I've seen a non-dual person that hasn't done stacks of sadhana. But anyway, that's another thing. I digress. Yes. So the, it is a loaded words. There is nothing that anyone can give to anyone, apart from that, bzzz, bing, frequency through which you tune, to which you tune, like a, you know, tuning fork or Tibetan bowl. And, oh, oh yeah, right. Yeah.
Right. Did I give it to you? No. You recognize it in yourself. You do have to look for yourself and recognize it in yourself. There's nothing that can be transferred from one vessel to another. And then there are no words that could be insert. The program in the mind here, giving another or copying itself like a virus to another mind, because this is so beyond the mind. No content, mental content, transferred from computer to computer can take it beyond the computer, beyond the mind. No program can help you realize that you are the energy that runs it. Okay. If that's the case, then how does it manifest?
Have a look. How does it manifest? It manifests as this moment right now, in which the sound is being produced, and is feeling the space, and that there is a capacity of seeing part of the manifesting, how it manifests. There is a content of the dream. That's how it manifests. And there might be a moment of, huh. What do you mean by the content of the dream? This is how it manifests. This moment is manifesting as the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, this room, this people, this thoughts, this words, this sounds. This is how it manifests. This is the dream. This is it. It can be any moment.
Absolutely. But it is this. Can I say something? Please, please. Yeah, yeah. Please, Anna, say something. So, my experience is that in certain environments, the awareness settles and joy arises. So, I can think of having gone to Ephesus, which was supposed to be a place where Mother Mary hung out, you could cut the vibration with a knife. It was so potent. And, you know, I sit here, and again, it feels very much like it's been concentrated because of the pointers and just because of the input. So, that feels so real. And also, having met various gurus, having met, you know, Swami Muktananda and Maharshi and the Mother, they had such a potent presence.
And, as does that lounge room of yours. There's a real presence there. And it's undeniable. So, I feel undeniable to me. Yes, that's how it feels. So, you know, I, and it arises internally, but it feels so concrete. Yeah, thank you, Anna. There's undeniably, there are sort of, you know, like situations and frequencies when it is more recognizable. Absolutely. There are situations and places when, you know, the nervous system is calm. You know, when you're in fight flight or driving a car and someone is just about to hit you, the circumstances, external circumstances are less conducive for the recognition. But then, awareness is still there.
The presence still there is always there. But the moment of that undistracted, the moment when the distractions are getting out of the way, the moment when there is a possibility to not need to attend to survival, you know, like the cat basking in the sun. At some points, the cat has to run for its life. The fox is chasing it. At other point, the cat is feeding itself or is starving. At yet another point, the cat is fighting with another cat or whatever is happening. And then, there is a moment when there is basking in the sun. Though the awareness of existence underlies all those moments, just the conscious recognition and appreciation, that one goes up and down.
And that one is depending on circumstances. Even, you know, when Bob was having a cancer and struggling with a cancer, when he was, he wasn't struggling. The body was doing its best. But when we had an appointment with the oncologist, there was no basking in the sun. There was sunlight of a spirit. There was attending and taking decision of the chemotherapy or radiation or whatever was required. So, the amount of appreciation is also a content of the dream. What is beyond the dream is the fact that energy is there underlying. Whether there is an appreciation, whether there is a defending the body or whether the body is asleep.
Or whether the body is in a particular holy point where the vibration, you know, when, as they say, when Jesus, I think, was saying, when one or more gather in my name, there I am. The energy multiplies. It really gets loaded. It just builds up on itself. The frequency is almost as if, you know, you have quite a few instruments tuned in together. And boom, zing, what is this? Yes. So, yeah, the appreciation, the love of life or the love of being, the bliss of being gets amplified. But even the bliss of being is the content of the dream. When, when the, you know, when the body is asleep and there is no memory, the bliss of being that comes up and down and medium and less is off.
And yet that existence is still underlying. The potentiality is still there. That's luck. The real, the real freedom is, is none, is non-dependent on any circumstances whatsoever. That's the, the real freedom lies in not to be in a heightened state or a recognizable potent position. It's, it's the real freedom is where all things occur freely. And there, and there's no longer, how could there be resistance to any of it, wanting it to be anything other than what it is. And the what is-ness itself is, is the actual, wow, the total, total freedom, complete freedom. When there's, there's, there's not a desire to want anything, or even if there's a desire, it's appearing in what is.
So therefore, what, what is a desire? Absolutely nothing. It's, it's what is-ness appearing with a little fragment of a desire or whatever that is. And that, there's absolute, like, there's an incredible freedom to it because there's, there's, there's no one home to, there's nothing there to, to, to, there's a pure love of accepting the dream as it is. As it is. That's it. Yeah, that's it. I wanted to highlight that one too. But thank you. And this is really nice kind of sort of bringing up one aspect, which is, yes, they are situations and they are frequencies and they are locations in which that joy is amplified.
And, and what Dean brings, closing the gap, bringing up that the true freedom is when those locations are not sought for. I remember being, that was, woo, over 20 years ago in a, in a Zen monastery. I was there a couple of times for a couple of months and, and place was so absolutely magnificent, beautiful and filled up with the devotion towards the truth, which was the definition of myself. I believed myself to be completely devoted and committed, seeker of the truth, nothing else mattered. So I was, as I was entering the monastery and looking, going through the garden, the fear arose, shit, you know, my poor husband, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna wanna go home.
I'm just, I'm gonna stay here and all my responsibilities at the job. I was, I had a high profile work that people depended on and friendships and all that. Yeah. But even that in this high energy, in that really high sort of frequency of love and devotion and the high really, um, place one could say, even that was recognized as another. Mind made attraction to pleasure. This is more pleasant. And then the longer I stayed, the more I learned that some of those beautiful, bold ladies were actually sold by their families because there was too many children and it was just easier to kept them fed.
And they didn't really wanna be there. And they would wake up in the middle of the night and scream. And some of them in their early twenties or, or thirties would run away and have the family get find a husband. They did not wanna, they did not see that place the same way I saw it. So again, life moves and there is no doer. And there is no I that now, if I really, if I'm really devoted, I will go and sacrifice my life and stay in the monastery. If that happens, there is no I, there is life moving, just like life moves the cats, like life moves humans.
And so if seeking for those high frequency places, and I know a few people who actually really love to go to Raman Ashram or somewhere else because this is so much better. You know, there are natural or other holy place where enough people gathered in their name and agreed that this is really high and, and yeah, the freedom is when none of it is required. And this moment as it shows up, as it manifests itself right now is not only enough, but it's perfect. It's complete. There's nothing missing. There's nothing lacking, nothing lacking, even if the body is sick, even if the body is taking a last breath and knowing nothing of it.
That's the freedom. Yes, Charlie. No, I just noticed the reaction of the cat. Ah, you're right. Oh, okay. Yeah. John, we didn't hear you today. Would you drop something into the mix? We love hearing you always. I've just been busy eating cookies. Oh. They're really good. I don't know if they have these in Australia. They're almond flour cookies. Hmm. Yeah, no, you guys have said it really well. Um, I think that one thing I, you know, that I, I just keep coming back to is how there really is no duality and non duality. Um, that recognition that the substance of who we are, that never changes.
It's just the recognition. And, um, you know, the, the, the mind that we can identify with and think of as a separate self. There's only so long you can go in life before you realize it, it just doesn't know anything. Um, and hopefully we are able to bump into enough walls to come to see that, um, and not keep repeating that tragic mistake of, of thinking we have a responsibility that we really don't have. Um, none of this is chosen. These thoughts that are arising aren't chosen. It's not personal. And we're not responsible as a separate being to attend to it. And that's a real load off, you know, um, because while I don't know anything as that separate self, everything is already known.
Not, not, not in terms of, you know, deep truths or, or science or whatever facts, but it's known in the sense of, of, of this knowing presence, this, um, this intelligent energy that you mentioned. Um, we, we are simply that knowing. And in any given moment where you sit in silence, you know, whatever's coming up is fine. There's no content that's better or worse, you know? So it's like recognizing that while I sit and there's just confusion, I don't know what I'm doing, then that's what's coming up. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't need to be changed. You know, and as soon as we recognize that, that paradigm that, that you aren't a separate being that is responsible for this, that it's simply what's arising.
Um, it's all doing what it needs to do. Um, yeah. And, and that's, that's how it already is. That's all I got. That's it. Thanks John. That's how it already is. That's it. Thanks John. Thanks everyone here. Thanks everyone on zoom. Thanks Kat. Thanks Dean. Thank you. Those on Facebook. Thanks guys. See you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.