This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on Facebook.
Yep. Got it. Yeah, there's still someone coming in. Okay, so I can start and if anyone wants to jump in and take over or add something or ask question or contribute any value or Jenny says Andrew, Andrew, would you like to do it again? He done it recently, but you haven't been here, Jenny. But yeah, if Andrew's happy, I'm happy. Oh, gosh, it really caught me out now. I got absolutely no idea what I'm going to say. I think I'll start off with like a Bob type spiel and I'll try and try and kick my brain into gear as I go. So if you're Bob always used to start off with you seeking truth or reality or God.
You have to start from the fact. The only thing. You really know and the only thing you're absolutely certain of is the fact of your own being. Cannot say you are not. You can only say. You I am. I am. And that is the primary thought that the mind comes up with to label yourself. I am. Like I always say, when you meet somebody, you reach out your hand. You say, hi, I am Andrew. I am. I am. Cat. I am. Whoever I am. And then, unfortunately, we add everything onto that. I am. And then. You have no control over your conditioning. See, you have really no way.
No, no control over the way your parents treat you as a young child. You have no control over education. You're given. You have no control over any sort of religious belief. That's imposed on you. So you're kind of like you're kind of like you're programmed. You're programmed. So instead of just saying, I am, I am being. I'm here. I'm present and aware. It's I am Andrew. I am. An Australian. I'm I was brought up a Catholic. I was. I'm. I went to Catholic schools. I was taught by nuns and brothers and other assorted perverts. So. You have no control over that. And so you go through your whole life.
And that's why I always say, you know, I always say to people like you cannot. You know, people say, oh, you're prejudiced. Well, I mean, what? What? What hope have you got of not being prejudiced? You know, I mean, I've been prejudiced. You know, I've been prejudiced. You know, I've been prejudiced. You know, I've been prejudiced. Everyone's prejudiced because all you have is the memory. I've been prejudiced. I've been prejudiced. Of what you are, what was imposed on you as you were growing up. That's all you have to refer to. That's that's the only thing you've got is memory. And if you were bought, bought up in a, say, a strict religious or you can't do this and you can't do that.
And what does that do? I mean, all it did in me. Was I suppose when I was younger, it just creates guilt because, you know, you said, oh, you shouldn't be doing this and you shouldn't be doing that. And then you start to do it. You think, oh, this is fucking great. I love it. You know, but I was told I shouldn't do this. I was told this is wrong. I was told this was I always remember back at school. Like. The brothers would give us these big indoctrination like. We'd all be in this lecture theater and the brother would come out and he'd be talking about the evils of masturbation.
You know, it's an abomination. And he would literally see everybody sort of linking down lower and lower in their seat. You know, like, oh, no, I don't do that. Oh, no. You know, I've never done that. Yeah. It was kind of like, you know, it was kind of like, you know, what? How were they talking about? You know, like. It's an abomination, you know, blind and. And my generation was bad enough. But I remember talking to another friend of mine who was he was the Second World War generation. And he says he said that. He was Church of England, I think, and his wife was Catholic or one or the other.
And the priest told him that if he married out of his religion, his his children would be born blind. I mean, and this would have been probably in the 60s or maybe the late 50s. I mean, so that's a little bit before my time. But. In the 60s, it was bad enough. And so I mean. You have these memories you depend on. Well, no, not depend on, but that's all you've got. And so we say, well, in some ways that is our bondage. That is our bondage is because you have to sort of reconcile all this bullshit that you are programmed with. And then you tend to go through a process of looking at it and dismissing it.
Until you meet someone like Bob. Who sort of says to you, you know, well, what you are. Is what you've always been. And that is free. It's prior to all that bullshit. It's prior to all that bullshit. Like the last time I spoke, I was talking about the senses not being in the body. Like I mean. How the senses belong to the life force, to the intelligence energy. And of course. That's see. That's. Self-evident to me now. But. So you have to. That's why you have to investigate. And you are. You are. You have to see. That there is a witnessing of the sensory senses.
There's a witness. There's the seeing. The seeing as Bob used to say, the seeing doesn't say I see. The hearing doesn't say I hear. The smell doesn't say I'm smelling. They're all taking place. Like automatically. You don't have to turn them on or off. You don't wake up every morning and say, oh, well, so is this. Which and turn my eyes on and switch my nose on and switch my mouth on. No, that it all takes place automatically. And. Excuse me. I'm just. I have very badly swollen ankles. I've I'm. I'm. I've got my ankles in an ice bath. I'm just freezing to death here.
And. So the senses. Where was I? So the senses, the sensory. So you're prior to the senses. You are the witnessing or the observing of all the sensory sensory senses, sensory things going on. But see what, what is that? You ask yourself, well, what, what, what? What is that witnessing? What is that observing? Who is aware of being aware? Or what is no better to say? What don't say who? Because that's sort of you're creating an entity there. What is aware of being aware? And see, that's where you get where it gets to the stage where no words or. No concepts. Can ever describe what you are.
You can never, ever object to it. You can never, ever objectify yourself. You just, it's just impossible. You cannot do it. There's just nothing there that can be made into a form or an object. So we tend to dismiss that. And we tend to say, oh, well, we miss it. I wouldn't say just me. We, we, we ignore it. We just miss it because the phenomenal world seems more real. The phenomenal world. The phenomenal world has, has all the sensory, the five senses, you know, the sight, the smell, the touch, the taste, the, that, that, that five, that world of the five senses seems so real.
So we tend to ignore what is the witnessing or the observing of all the sensory phenomena. And we buy into the phenomenal world as the reality. And see, then, then a time comes where you start to investigate and you start to say, well, it's, it's not real. You know, like, like I always say, when you go into deep sleep at night, the world disappears. And when you come back in the morning, the world comes back. You come back with the world. You come back as a pair, the world and you appear at the same time. And so what? So then you have to ask yourself.
Well, can that, can that be the reality if it comes and goes, if it could disappear one minute, be there one minute and disappear the next? It depends on the senses. It depends on the senses and the senses depends on the life force. So the, so, so you have to ask yourself what's sovereign, what's sovereign to, to the phenomena, to the senses is the life force, intelligence, energy, as Bob used to call it. That is the life force. That is the sovereign state. The thing is, is you've always been that you've never not been that. And you can't get rid of it because there's nothing to get rid of.
It's like, I mean, I mean, when I say we talk about, oh, you have to get rid of the idea of a separate self or we have to get rid of the ego. How can you get rid of something that never existed before? How can you get rid of something that never existed before? You can't get rid of something that never existed in the first place. It's impossible. You can't do it. So you can't get rid of something that has no existence. So what do you do then? Where, where are you? What, where does that leave you? It leaves you here, present and aware. And, and then, then you see the world for what it is.
The world is appearing in you. The phenomenal world is created by your senses. The phenomenal world is created by your senses. And the senses are, depend on that intelligence, energies, that awareness, that life force that's there for the, for the world to appear within, like the, the movie appearing on the screen. And the senses are, depend on that intelligence, energies, that awareness, that life force that's there for the, for the world to appear within, like the, the movie appearing on the screen. And the senses are, depend on that intelligence, energies, that awareness, that life force that's there for the, for the world to appear within, like the, for the world to appear within, like the, the movie appearing on the screen.
And the senses are, depend on that intelligence, energies, that awareness, that life force that's there for the, for the world to appear within, like the, for the world to appear within, like the, the movie appearing on the screen. a career depend on that intelligence energy that awareness that life force that's there for the for the world to appear within like the the movie appearing on the screen and so no matter what happens in the movie it never alters modifies or corrects the screen the screen is just always there like the white page of a book is behind the printed words there's just an empty white page and the words wouldn't be able to appear there unless that white page was there for them to appear on and it's the same with your the phenomenal world or the appearance of the world it it appears in the emptiness as the emptiness so the the the the old saying the form is the emptiness and the emptiness is the form so there's no separation there's no two things there there's not see unfortunately when we use language it's always going to seem like we're talking dualistic dual dualistically you're talking about me and my awareness and and my phenomenal world and it'll always seem to be dualistic it'll always seem to be just like you're talking about two things because there's always going to as soon as you're talking about two things you're talking about the same thing you're talking about the same thing you're talking about the same thing you're talking about the same thing as you open your mouth as soon as you you enter the realm of the mind there's going to be a seeming subjective entity there talking about some objective reality where when if you see that they both have the same source two sides of the coin the two ends of the stick so to speak you're not confused by it anymore you can see it for what it is and see even if even if you don't know that you are still that that's that's the big the big joke even if you don't know what you are you're still that anyway you're still the present awareness or the omnipresence the timeless formless being you are still that and you're always that and you'll always be that and you've always there's never been a time where You weren't that.
And so birth and death, what's born? What was born? When I think back to when I was young, very young, I remember one of my earliest memories of being very, very young was this inky blackness that would come. I would be lying in bed and there would be just like this kind of like a void state of just inky blackness of nothingness that would come. And I would start shitting myself. I was starting to think, oh, I'm not going to exist. I'm going to disappear and not exist anymore. Whereas that's not possible. So the only thing that's ever born. Is the sense of. I am.
And the sense of I am. Is. The sovereign state. But you don't need to say I am. You see, the thing is, you don't. Bob always used to get us to say I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. Stop. And then he would say, well, you haven't disappeared or you haven't shut down or anything like that. So what does that tell you? It tells you that the thought. I am is not you. So that goes for any thought. So whatever you add on to the I am is not you either. So I am Andrew blah, blah, blah. That is not you either.
So that's all you can ever do is to see what you are. Sorry. All you can ever do is to see what you're not. Then what you are becomes self evident. And that self evident you that omnipresence. Cannot be named cannot be made into an object. Cannot be made into any sort of form. But it's a bit like electricity. I mean, I'm sitting here and I'm looking over on the bench and I've got a kettle and I've got a fridge and I've got a what are they called? Open. Forget what I call this little oven there. And so. So they all. all run off electricity none of them would be worth a pinch of shit with without the electricity to to power them i mean what would you do with them they'd just be like lumps of plastic and lumps of steel and you'd think what the fuck is good as this you'd have to throw it away what's good is it without that power that powers the element that cooks the water in the oven you've got a air fryer sorry bloody air fryer i totally remembered what it's called an air fryer the element in that whatever power is that i'm not sure how they work none of that would be worth a pinch of shit if it wasn't for the electricity in the same way without the life force flowing through your body what what could your eyes do what can your ears do what can your anything do you you you you , your kidneys can't filter your urine your liver can't filter blood your heart can't pump blood your brain your brain that sends all the messages around the body to tell it moving the body moving the muscular system what can any of that do without that life force that's living you and in the same way you can't see electricity you can't see electricity but you acknowledge it because you like i said like i mean you wouldn't go up and stick a knife in a powerpoint you know you you know you're going to get your hand blown off you know there's a power there i mean you can't explain it or you what the hell is it that's electricity you've got this power and it runs things it runs fridges it runs the air fryer and it cooks my water it does all this stuff for me it's a power that's going to get me out of this but i can't see it i can't see what it is i can't contain it or i can't sort of grasp it so to speak and it's the same way that life force works through the body you can't see it but you can see the manifestations of it just as you can see the manifestations of electricity you can see the airfryer working you can see the microwave working you see the manifestations of of the energy in the same way you see the manifestations of the intelligence energy powering the body, powering up the mind.
These great intellects you see on the internet. And these people come off this mind-blowing shit, you know, and you think, wow, they've got these great intellects. But how many people acknowledge, how many people say, well, it's not me. It's that intelligence that flows through me, that gives me this great intellect. Very few people see it that way. Very few people say, oh, well, I am that. They buy into the manifestation of what the intelligence energy's created. They buy into the story of the me and the mine and my shit, and my ego, and my life, my cars. ล my house that becomes all important and that becomes you know some takes over some people's whole lives and they never stop and they never ask well what am i really it's only when something you find that most people who get on the spiritual path it's it's usually when the shit's happened like somebody's died or they've got very sick all of a sudden or something happens they've got no control over then they start to question and say well who's in control here you know i didn't want this i didn't want that why did it happen you know and then they start to question and then the question comes up you know the ultimate question comes up is there a me that can do anything and i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure at all is there a me that has some sort of free will or some sort of autonomy and of course you could say well it appears that way it appears that way the phenomenal world appears it appears to be a separate me there appears to be a me and i appear to have free will and i appear to have or some sort of autonomy and independence from all the other me's running around but you you have to again go to the essence what what is sovereign to all that what is the sovereign state that animates everybody and everything what is that it's like that uh it's like the power throwing for flowing through your power points you know that gives the energy to everything and in the same way that you can't do anything you can't do anything you can't do anything that intelligence energy when it leaves the body the body will just fall down and it will cease to uh function the eyes won't see the ears won't hear nothing will happen and then the body will start to disintegrate it will start to break down into all its uh you know ashes to ashes dust to dust so to speak it will start to break right down and you have to get rid of it then you have to start to break down into all its say well jeez i have to bury it bury it deep enough so an animal doesn't dig it up you know six feet under or i have to burn it i just have to get rid of it because it's just going to go rotten full of maggots and worms and stuff so then the question is is that life energy is it ever destroyed can it ever be destroyed because it was never born how can it ever die uh one way of looking at it is you could say does it just change form for example if you cut a big tree down you go out in the forest and you cut a giant tree down and then you chop it up into smaller pieces logs and you get your wood splitter out and then you chop that big 15 20 ton tree down and you've got all this nice uh firewood and then you burn that fire you burn that wood and it creates this radiant heat which creates smoke so you're you're going from through the elements then you're going from a seeming solid tree and then you you apply a radiant heat to it that breaks it down into smoke and energy a radiant heat which disappears into into seemingly nothingness and so the question is well where's that 15 ton tree gone is it can that 15 ton tree disappear or can it just only change form can it just move from the form into the formless and the energy that it was is always there and it has to always the energy has to always there's got to be some sort of balance or some sort of congruency there with the energy of things so if you apply that to yourself and see the sovereign state which i this which i tend to call it the sovereign state your sovereign state is is is beyond time it's beyond form can never be objectified you can never say what you are but you know it's there there's a sense of presence here and that sense of presence is is always there it's never not there it's like even when you go into deep sleep at night and we say oh the world disappears well do you disappear no because when somebody calls out your name or or somebody enters the room or somebody disturbs see what happens is that you're not there anymore you're not there again but you're not there you're in the state of being that is the mind goes into rest and the world disappears so to speak but your awareness is in its pure state then just pure awareness and then somebody comes in and it calls out your name and straight away you're back again because you were never not there you're always there you're always you you are aware of being unaware so to speak so so so that's why i ask who is aware or why not What is aware of being aware?
And you can never name that. You can never say what that is. You can never say what it is. I am that. I suppose it could be a statement. But what is that? What is that? I am that. So that is a saga. Data had the book, I am that. And I suppose it's probably one of the closest ways the mind can come up with it. I am or I am that. I suppose that's all you can really say. Because that can never be objectified or defined. So just be what you cannot not be. You cannot never. You can never. You can never not be that.
You can never not be that. You're always that. And you'll always be that. And so there's nothing to get. There's nothing to be found. There's nothing to find. There's no teacher. There's nothing to be taught. And there's nothing to be learned. When you see that ultimate state. All those things are just phenomena. So the teaching. The teacher. The teaching and the one who's being taught. All have the same source. You see that in the end. You see that and you say, well, yeah, well, they cancel each other out. And so that's why you say, I am one with Bob. I, of course, I am one with Bob.
The same life that was living Bob is living me. So I'm not separate. How can I be separate? And then how can I be separate from anybody else? There is no sense of separation. Then everybody is that. But at the same time, you have to play the game of life. You have to, you have to, you know, you have to live and pretend you've got free will and you've got to pretend you've got some sort of autonomy and act like you've got some sort of autonomy just for the, for the foot to play your role. Yeah. And that's all in the game. And that's about all you can do.
You can't, you can't not be anyway. It's all going on automatically. You didn't start it. And so you just have to see what you are and be free. Be free. And present. Be aware of presence. You see your own omnipresence and your own omnipotence. And your own. Your own omniscience. And then you won't have to depend on anyone else. And that's why I'll finish with the statement Bob said to me that had the probably the most profound effect on me. He said, how can you ever call yourself a free man if you have to depend on somebody else for that freedom? If you have to depend on a teaching or a guru or a teacher.
And how can you call yourself free? Because your dependence on them enslaves. You. So you have to, you have to give up all that. You have to throw all that away. And that doesn't mean I don't love Bob or respect Bob or I don't, you know, I don't miss him. Sorry, it doesn't mean I don't miss him or anything like that. It just means that he said the only way I can help you is to take you beyond the need of any further help. And that's what I'm trying to do. So, I mean, what sort of freedom could you say you have if you have to, you know, you have to depend on a book or you have to depend on some sort of religious leader?
You have no freedom then. You're just a serf. You're just a slave to whatever they tell you. So that's about all I've got to say. I've gone on autopilot again. I've gone for half an hour. Feels like about five minutes. That was magnificent. Magnificent. And thank you, Andrew. And I would just because I see Kimo has the hand up, but I'm just going to say welcome. I see three new names on the screen. So it is just to say hope you will find that group, group of equals. As you could tell, anyone is equally aware that they exist. So anyone is equally eligible to give us the introduction.
Thank you. And this is gonna be the introduction, because it is really just landing in that natural state in that certainty of existence and speaking out from that. So Andrew gave us a beautiful introduction today. And now we're going to hand over the mic to chemo. And if any of you who are with us for the first time would like to speak, you can raise the hand up, and you can share, or you can ask question, or you can type in the chat box. Welcome. And also, Jenny was saying that when Andrew was talking about that. I am that. That is the mystery. Oh, I am that I am, isn't it?
And Stephen says, thank you, Andrew. I found that so helpful. And thank you, Andrew, also from Yvonne. And I've seen a couple of hats floating up. That was Jenny and others. So thank you. And Kimo, you on? Would you like to unmute? Yeah. Hi, everybody. Thanks, Kat. I am. I'd like to come at. Thank Andrew for his introduction and come at something that from a different angle of what he said that I'd also like to go over, which was beautiful. The expression of the senses appearing to this intelligence energy or in this intelligence energy. So we start off Bob's teaching. And really anyone who's pointing directly.
They're extremely rare. Extremely rare. So we talk about what we know. We are and we know that we are. And like Kat has said, and a lot of meetings, you know, that's taken for granted. It's BS. You know, that can't be it. But it actually is it. I think we all come to religion or spirituality because there's there's discomfort in the idea of being a body or being a mind. And so so we we inherently know that this we're not traveling in a way that feels comfortable because the identity that we're wearing any kind of identity isn't what we are, except for that pure naked being here.
Naked awareness itself. But we Bob heard from the Sargadatta that he's not the body and he's not the mind that covers everything. You know that you are and you're not the body and you're not the mind. But you can come up with all these ways around the body and the mind. But all the questions about am I this? Am I this? Am I this? Are all are all the body or the mind. They're just more kind of intelligent. You know, detours around that, but really taking jumping right back into the body mind identification. And so I kind of want to talk. About what Andrew brought up because it came up at the United States meeting the Sunday night.
United States Monday morning, Australia. Someone had had asked about the Bahia Sutra and hey, you know. The I'm neat when I'm neither here nor there mentally. I'm not taking myself to be a mental object. That is, there's just the seeing, hearing, tasting, you know, is that what I am and kind of the powers that be just kind of. Grumbled and almost gave it a check Mark, but I want to go a little deeper into that. And I'll get to that in a second, but. The other thing is the same day. I was in a chat room. And no one ever has to explain. Why folks show up?
I mean, it's no one ever has to say why they're in a meeting or why questions are being asked or why. The? The. the pairs of opposite show up in life like love, hate, war, friendship, everything. We don't have to explain that. What we're doing here is looking at our true nature. And there's absolutely no duality and non-duality, so there's nothing wrong with describing things however you want. I mean, I could go to Depp Denny and Kat could say, you know, I'm tired, or Dean could say my shoulder hurts, you know, I need this surgery or that. That's perfectly fine. But what we're talking about here is when I was in this meeting with someone, they said, hey, you know, I don't really need to be, and they don't need to explain, no one ever needs to explain themselves to talk to me.
You know, I'm just here because I like the fellowship, blah, blah, blah. I don't really care what your thing is because anyone is welcome. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then like, I heard this thing like, but this body mind still feels pain. And I'm like, you know, it's okay. Obviously anything is okay to say this isn't the non-duality police. I can say I'm chemo and my ankle hurts today, or, you know, I feel pain at this and that. But when we're talking about, when we're really saying where the belief is, where the reference point is. It doesn't originate with a body or a mind. That's not what's doing the looking or doing the being at all.
It's a gross identification to feel like that. And kind of the question that came back to me is, okay, Sonny, you know, it's like, you know, I'm 61 years old, but I'm called Sonny, you know, hit your, hit your hand with a hammer and tell me if it doesn't hurt. No one is saying there's no pain. It's just like, what's registering it. What is registering it? Nobody is ever going to, you know, debate whether a dog in a cage or a dog unfed or someone who's being terrorized a person, you know, that they're not going through all kinds of trauma. But like Andrew said, and like Bob said, without that intelligence energy, none of that would be happening.
So it's a misplaced identity on what's happening. So one of the things, a common phrase that's in the United States, when you say something outlandish, it's like, oh, you know, dad would roll in his grave if he heard that. Well, what he is, is registering that right now, and he's not rolling in his grave. So that's a false statement. No matter how much abuse, no matter how much happiness. A supposed body mind has felt it's perfectly at peace the moment that that life essence is not animating the body anymore. 100%. So coming back to the being, that's all there is, is the being. Everything appears in the being.
And just like a few weeks ago, when I talked about Phuket, Thailand, before the tsunami, there was Phuket, all the people, all the buildings. After the tsunami, there was just water. And it's the same thing with what we have right now. There's just being, and everything that arises in it is the being appearing as other. So there's no pressure. There's no pressure to progress. And there is no progression because there is no one to progress. When there's just being. There's no one to progress. When there's just being, there's no one to progress in it. But just for conversational purposes, there's either an ease of living or there's not.
And you have to question everything, your own insights, what Bob has told you, what you've read in scriptures. It'll surprise you sometimes on what feels light and what feels right. So most of us have discovered that the body. And the mind are not what we are, or at least we believe it. We've had insights and there's at least a belief there or recognitions of it. And we want to come back to that, or we want to stabilize it when it can't be stabilized because it already is the fact. It is the fact that you are and everything else is just appearing. So getting back to the answer.
I'm going to stop here. I'm going to stop. Andrew thing. Um, the, the, the question is, and there's all kinds of sophistication here, right? So I think in, I'm not an expert on Buddhism, but I think there eight different, at least eight different things that go through thoughts, feelings, and all the bodily, um, things, you know, you know, like taste, all the things, but kind of like in Advaita. And when we talk about in these meetings, they're kind of six gates. Like the five senses plus thinking. And thinking is what seemingly divides things. But also, when we talk about the bahiyasuta, it's very liberating. Hey, I'm not here, I'm not there, and only in this is there no suffering.
Only in this recognition is there peace, that I'm nowhere, but there's just the seeing, hearing. Even that can be investigated, because like Andrew said, the seeing and hearing itself is an appearance. What's it appearing in, we can't say. Because the seeing and hearing are still subtle activities, we can't label what it's appearing in. And there's this guy, I had to look it up while Andrew was speaking, his name is Jonah. And just like Bahiyasuta, he's kind of built his career on the being. It's so simple. You talk about Bob and this Jonah guy, it's like the being has revealed itself as just the being. I am and I know that I am.
How many people can keep that simple? Almost none. So this guy Jonah, he was the eye of dehydration. And when you die, obviously, most folks who have kind of been revived, have talked about what a scary experience it was. Or it was very liberating, because they had some kind of near-death experience. But kind of like describing death or describing being on death's door is really depressing and really frightening for people to describe. I felt myself dropping off. Thank God I'm back here. I love you. The heck with all these petty things. I love you. And I'm going to die. And I'm going to die. And I'm going to die.
And I'm going to die. I'm never going to do this again or never do that. I'm never going to take anything for granted. It's like a jubilation. But this guy Jonah, he saw something like Eckhart Tolle did, but from a very much less spectacular fashion. So instead of like how wonderful it is and all this stuff, it's like when he noticed himself dying slowly of dehydration, something showed up to him that never occurred to him before. He saw that he was perfectly alive, that whatever he was, it's like he says the weirdest feeling, like all my sensations, bodily functions, and everything was dimming over a period of a few days.
But the peculiar thing, he said, I didn't feel like I was dying. I was perfectly alive. 100% alive. 100% alive. That volume switched to 10 on aliveness, never wavered, even though he was quote unquote dying. So the body was dying. The seeing was dying. The hearing was dying. Even the monkey mind was dribbling down. But he felt an extreme peace in the solidity of his being. He felt it firsthand. And when I say he, it's just because I'm making it a story. Obviously, there's no thought, separate entity that's making it me. So I just want to say, like in closing, don't land on anything, because this is no thing.
There's kind of a chic and in our parlance, we say the activity of knowing. And in other parlances, it's like the Bahia Sutra. It's just the verbing. Oh, no. I'm not. I'm not chemo. I'm just the verbing. I'm just the activity of knowing. I'm just the seeing, hearing, taste. Okay, what happens when the hearing fails? What happens when the seeing fails? Are you still there? There's something there which is you in which this chic, I'm just the verbing without the idea of me. There's no more subject-object ideation. I'm just the verbing. All there is is the tasting, the seeing. It's chic and it's more subtle, but it's not more elevated.
Me saying I'm chemo, I'm whatever height, I'm a good guy, I'm a bad guy, is just as astute as saying I'm the seeing and hearing. When we say there's no duality and non-duality, it's true. Just because when I'm saying I'm just the verbing, I'm not saying I'm the seeing and hearing. Just because when I'm saying I'm just the verbing, I'm not putting the mind in there to split anything, it doesn't make it any more holy or more elevated. It's still an identification with thingness, no matter how subtle. And we tag a name on it. Andrew said the life essence. Bob said the life essence. Fantastic pointer.
Because that's the explanation to how come she feels this? How come he feels this? How can you say this person isn't being abused? How can you say this person isn't getting lots of food or this person is full and this person's hungry? It's because the life essence, not because of a separate entity who feels that. That's the appearance. Locality is the appearance. Okay. The ball peen hammer or the hunger is going to show up as a description in the description. Okay. In locality. The locality that like Andrew said, it doesn't indicate separateness. The 10,000 things are not separate. The idea of the time, even if I say, even if I do make myself a subject, like I just said a second ago, even if I do say I'm chemo seeing this stuff.
It's just a description. It's still non dual because it's still an appearance. How cool is that being appearing as an idea that I'm chemo seeing this stuff. You can't get away from it. So we go back to Bob's original pointer. Am I, you know, no matter how anyone is confused when they come through that door in depth. Danny, do you know that? Do you know that you are period? That's it. Do you know that you are? That's the being. the awareness the presence awareness is right there that that's the entire gospel and when we ask if it's the seeing or the tasting or the subtle body you know out of body oh i must be a ghost because i had an out-of-body experience or i must be separate because i feel this and you don't we're we're we're going off to the races and when you don't see that that's the thing and and i i like doing these uh romantic things too that there's this saying when you're dating or when you're in a relationship if you have to ask if someone loves you or you have to ask if they're they're feeling it for you the answer is not good you stick with what you know what you know you know like in relationships stick with what you know you know what she loves you or she doesn't you know if she's going to say yes to marriage or not and you know you're just fooling yourself or fishing it's the same thing with what we're pointing to here i i know for sure that i am no one can tell me that i'm not i can't say that i'm not but if i want to talk about am i the tasting the seeing am i chemo even even this rarefied i'm the active i'm the activity of knowing no i'm not that's a concept and who's to say this is always in motion or has to be in motion it has no requirements except to be the only thing i can't refute is that i know that i am but how many can stick with it again surprisingly i i say surprisingly few but i'll even make that smaller by saying almost none and i'll pass it there thanks for letting me speak thank you thank you for speaking thank you for bringing up all the the wonderful Tremblo's uh magnificent distinctions it is really that simple and it is really that straightforward like identifying a seeing identifying a space identifying as god absolute no sickness is still identifying the activity of assuming identity is registered so that's just another phenomenon appearing on the screen of awareness everything that is perceivable or It's a phenomena.
It's just a rising phenomena and Registering capacity. Well don't identify as registering capacity either. There is no identity required Nothing in nature needs identity. Sun doesn't say I'm a Sun. I need to shine the cat doesn't know it is a cat It is just pure essence of existence Now the narrative comes up and elaborates Oh, I came to the meeting because I love Bob or I came to the meeting because I have free will and I have decided or I have No one have done anything Nothing ever happened. You find yourself here always here Whether here means the meeting or a supermarket or or kitchen or bathroom is always here The content of it the the phenomena is constantly dancing around within that here , so yes, that was also a really really good potent point.
You know people don't have to justify if they have to justify Well, the natural thing is to remind them. They're not the doers that you can tell five ten whatever the amount of stories depending on the capacity for Imagination developed in this particular machine you can justify or tell any drama any movie in many? many different ways but the truth is you are here why because you're here it's like there is no necessity to justify any like i could justify oh why did i choose that particular career oh and then the story goes and they absolutely wonderful enticing and and and exciting stories and it's nothing wrong with exchanging a beautiful movie or beautiful music or the story of me however the freedom and i love the way andrew was saying you know if the freedom depends on anything how can you call it freedom that's the dependency that's the slavery that's the bondage so the true freedom does not depend on the story of me does not depend on anything and it does not depend of from restraining yourself from exchanging the story of me if the story of me happens well you know it could be equally enjoyed like every good tv show and i've seen marty you had the hand up for a sec and would you like to unmute oh great to see you by the way good to see you guys sure it's funny how it happens it's been a minute i hope everyone's well um it's just so funny like i just joined it's just it's just happening and like the conversation is so in line with you know the kind of thoughts that have been popping up and i'm just like oh my god i'm so happy to be here um yeah um yeah i was just remembering what bob said a while back and um he was talking about like he used to always talk about how like the sperm and the ovum came together and what did you do about any of that and um i was having a a moment where yeah like this identity that is seemingly created um was i guess popping up and um and uh yeah and getting kind of like drawn back into the weeds of if you want to kind of call it that like into the identity of being like martin or whatever this the name is and um you know just having lots of different things in life happening at once and it was actually quite nice having that identity like pop up and then remembering bob's words about that and then just sort of in that moment like taking a breath and um seeing the identity because it's just so clear when it is loud and noisy do you know what i mean when it's really pulling like causing a fuss and like you know like it's just so clear when it's really like causing a fuss and a ruckus like it's so obvious to see this identity that like that you believe in and then once that's i guess seen through then you're left with that um that life uh like the craziness of the fact that like all the just happening the sun's out there the earth's spinning like and there's no identity there's no one doing that but it's happening it's happening and you know it wouldn't be happening without this therefore you know that's your real identity like that's your real self do you know what i mean and all these ideas that come up about the little self or whatever you want to call it the me is is like it like just an identity on top of your real identity I kind of think of it like a Jenga tower we're like you build a Jenga tower and then you're playing the game and you build this Jenga tower then all of a sudden like you take the Jenga tower to be yourself and I know I guess it's kind of just a metaphor but like essentially this identity you build up as this Jenga tower and then all this I'm like you know now it gets all wonky and you're like oh what's gonna happen oh like you know it's gonna fall over and then now you're like seeing your life through the Jenga tower the lens of a Jenga tower until Bob comes along and just like knocks it over you know what I mean and it just like falls and you're just left like as you always were like this thing that is prior to this Jenga tower being built and then the next time you build your Jenga tower the next time the Jenga tower comes up it's like you're playing the game but you know who you are and it's just sort of different Jenga towers are getting such a weird metaphor but for some reason it just made a lot of sense but the identity you know once you see once you see your identity you investigate it and this this thought and you see it getting built up and you see the tower and then you just knock it down like see through it and then you're left with you know you're left with this expansiveness which is like your real identity do you know what I mean and then once you've seen that and you you know that like you can never believe in another identity again like you can never believe in the story this well you can never believe that winning a game a Jenga mat like really matters it's like a big deal do you know what I mean like it's um yeah and so these Jenga towers continue to be built and fall over and none of it really like is attached to you just sort of you know who you are you know you know just there's a knowing of yourself and when these identities come up you just you just they're just seen through you know how they're created you've seen them create themselves and you believe in that little self you know that you had nothing to do with the identity of yourself had nothing to do with you being here and this happening right now so yeah I know it's a pretty I've been talking with one of my friends recently and he's having a lot of trouble like in his own head it's really hard to just you know say like you you who who you think you are is not who you are and it's like they don't really want to necessarily hear that but like essentially he's viewing his life through his identity that he's created and his identity just so happens like to be going for a patch in this story so therefore the perspective of life like through that identity is and so he's like in this you know but then like it's such a stupid story because it's like you could tell yourself any story you can create any identity like you were saying before you know I could be space or I could be awareness like I could be subtle identities or I could be like a superstar or like a do you know what I mean that everything's still an identity that you create and the life like if you believe in it I guess it's like seemingly it feels like you're seeing life through that perspective but in reality it's not the case but yeah anyway I'm just babbling on now thanks no that's that's fantastic you know just yeah keep bubbling the identity it is actually the core that is the essence is the is the source of all the problem problems identifying us separate self didn't you want to include the yeah there's a few there's a few uh messages I might have said um but but the last one in relation to what Marty just said but I'll go back a little bit and Henk was saying from earlier on it is already the great perfection cannot be altered and then and added uh it's all that with varying levels of Ign retro faeds the the Jenga and Djenga was actually a good example all the stress the wobbles to protect the the crash down of the facade but you still are yeah which is pretty much what you're just saying yeah and i love exploring in any angle on identity because it's it's like a costume like bob would say it's a mask the mask of personality it's like avatar like your profile if you were a singer you're gonna have a speaker speaker on your picture on a facebook profile like really but this is for whatever reason for the navigational purposes calling this i or calling going to the doctor and say i am sick well i call them mechanics and this is a machine but that's just another label uh it's it's what's happening the the applying different costumes is just what's happening but believing them into experience into reality that slavery again that slavery to the mind that's nothing to do with freedom the freedom is realizing that even if the identity arises even if the identity is not a costume the idea arises it is registered it is a phenomena coming and going and i see jenny you have the hand up would you like to unmute here i come i'm outdoors so on my phone here i am yeah hey yeah i wanted to highlight something that andrew said and it goes back it also resurfaced it with chemo shared and also marty it's all about identity that is the i am i am i am i am full stop that bob said that well even whatever even if we stop saying that i am i am i am life for whatever or what we can't label it something is still there so in a sense everything would even before the i am it's like i look upon his eyes all the identity a theater, you know?
We are playing theater. It's a game of theater, this life, you know, and we take on different roles in different parts, depending on situations. And, you know, you know, there's method acting. And in method acting, you go so deep into the role that you believe that you are the role that you are playing, and that makes you into a really good actor. And it is funny that this is a method that is taught, as we as human beings really, as a default, come in as method actors. We all play our roles to such extent that we really believe that we are the roles. So our human education shouldn't...
in essence, a little bit be the reverse, that we come out of the role of method acting and really realize that everything, the physicality, the thoughts, the emotions, that all these things are just different flavors of the costume, that is added upon this thatness that nobody can capture or nobody can put into a box or that actually nobody can label, you know? Try to put stillness in a box or try to put, you know, yeah, well, some wise ass would probably say, of course I can put stillness in a box. I just make a box. And then what's in there is stillness in space. Yeah, of course it would be, but that's not what I mean.
The knowingness that there is a beingness, the lifeness, the... Halloy, halloy, oops, stop! Somebody's jogging by with another little dog. The knowingness that this aliveness is, is undeniable, you know, it's undeniable. So, yeah, kind of lost my thread as they were jogging by, but who cares? So I'm going to let Marty say something. Thank you. Big love to all. Chup! Thank you, Jenny. Marty, you on? Yeah, I'm going to see if I can even say this in words, but the mind has a habit of like, obviously labeling things the way so it appears. And, you know, the, how do you say this? So like, you're in this moment, let's say, oh, fuck, you're in this moment, whatever.
And like, you know, you have Dean, you got Kat, you got Marty. So you're like labeling it. Right. So now, and the labels come up because it appears like different, right? It appears different. So like you label it. You label the appearance, but the fact that the appearance looks different, the mind labels that, right? But obviously in its essence, when you investigate yourself, you see like the air and the sun, like without those things, this body or this wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't exist. Therefore it's not separate and, and, you know, this is, this is made a space and the atoms are you know contained of space and the space between me and you is is not not separate and so like in its in its essence like you can't actually label it because it's just this and this is always this or that whatever you want to call it right and i was like thinking the other day i was like in town i was like how many times have we been in town and called it town like looked at it and they're like man i'm in town like labeled at town instead of it's because it looks you know it looks a particular way the mind gets in the habit of calling it like town where in reality it's just this still you know in its essence like same as bob like the difference between town and bob is just the appearance but in its essence like it's this is it's it's me it's that it's like the my real self do you know what i mean like our real self however you want to say and just like i started to realize like their appearance isn't what it appears to be always and and the mind's always been in a habit of being like i'm in the lounge i'm in the kitchen i'm outside and it's that habit that's been formed like from from baby but like if you see through that and look into the essence of it you see there is no kitchen there is no lounge there is no town there is no bob and sailor and kit and all that marty it's always been this you know right it in its essence even though it appears like that's why it's like a mire like an illusion right the appearance like seemingly appears to be separate but under investigation when you look at it you realize oh this is all the same one thing so now it's like like you can't lose bob because bob is just like bob is me bob is the real the real bob is here like um yeah because sometimes you know you're such so magical spending time with bob and you're just like you never want that to end that moment to end but it's just the appearance of that moment that labeled bob like um that's different from this moment that i label is whatever this is but the labels are different but this isn't different still i'm still here forever in this yeah anyway that's all i'll try to say that wow you really captured it you really did you brought that essence of that business appearing as everything one essence appearing as everything almost as if you know there is this this potentiality reflecting itself as a town as a sofa as a kitchen as bob as anything and everything but yes in essence without the label wow that was beautifully put i'll just read aunt's comment which is following on i love the word turmoil that marty used it really described what the mini me can go through I think of how the word can be used to describe churning water in the ocean what is even going through the turmoil you can't separate the churning waves from the ocean IDK uh just something that came to mind lots of laughs yeah beautiful yeah sorry I was going to add one thing there like you know if I believed in my identity of myself I had this question from my friend he's like where I like I was just in that moment I was that man they're like have I really believed that Martin was me like I would be petrified you know like I would just be so terrified because that me is subject to so many ideas of what it means to be him um that like I don't know I just it would be it would be so terrible that but what the fact that I'm even like being able to talk about it separate to myself shows me that it's just an identity I've created um so I let go of that because why would I believe in that it doesn't sound fun it doesn't sound fun at all and this actually the aspect the way you put it you know I would have a lot of ideas how it is to be him that's the cage of Concepts that's how the identity is constructed I am a woman therefore I have to dress appropriately I am a Polish woman therefore I have to speak with particular nonsense or I am a widow or or married or unmarried or whatever it is it is the tons of ideas that the illusion of control the narrator which have no control whatsoever is is starting to preserve and beating around the bush and preserving that illusion of control which is never never there what a bondage was an Impossible situation leaving in a cage of Concepts trying to find the way out the cage of concepts made of concepts there's nothing there by that but the Ideas and looking for the way out imagining someone trying out why not just stop imagining there's no one who needs to get out from the identity at the first place she's just move this but yeah that was that was beautifully put even yes being able to actually look at your own conceptual image that has been imposed through language through conditioning through school society parents expectations jobs everything that cage of concepts that's been built slowly through the language model that is installed in that by a computer just being able to see that conceptual image register see how it appears and whoo Wow what a ride but then you know believing it into reality appears optional and then again there's no one to even pick the option it's just suddenly the charm is broken the hypnotic suggestion is being seen through by who well does it have to be anyone it's just off the soap bubble bursting or the bubble might still be appearing and what's wrong with that looking at the appearance looking at the appearance of identity, looking at what goes with that identity, me as a mother or me as the employee, me as that.
Wow, what a show, what an incredible kaleidoscope of aspects of that dream. And the freedom to actually be able to register, to see the registering capacity, including those concepts, those conceptual images. That ups the game just exponentially. Suddenly it is light. Suddenly it is fun. And of course, seeing people like your friend Marty being locked up into that identity, on one hand it kind of calls for, oh shit, you know, what a terrible predicament. I remember being fucked like this. Oh shit. That's one way of expressing love and appreciation for the freedom. And another one, wow, God is having fun. The omnipresence, the one essence, fooling itself into the belief of being an object appearing in itself.
Wow, what a show. And how real or how unreal? Well. I'm not saying that you should dream your dream at night. It feels real. It feels equally real. And this is not to dismiss. In the dream at night, I'm equally helpful for people who are actually starving or running or whatever. This is just the nature of this machine. If I'm dreaming someone and that someone lands in trouble, I find myself giving him a hand. Not because I believe them real, not because I made the decision or have a choice or have a free will to do it. I'm just saying that the machine acts out its conditioning.
The dream machine does exactly the same. I see Andrew has the hand up. Would you like to unmute Andrew? Yeah, I was going to say, I think one of the greatest traps you can get caught in is the idea of becoming. The idea of becoming something. Because there's a lot of things that you can do. You can do anything. You can do anything. There is straight away the implication that you're not already complete. You're not already whole. You're missing something. And then at some future time you will find that. And you create, and straight away you create a whole paradigm. Then you might think, well, you know, I have to do chanting, or I have to do meditation, or I have to stand on my feet.
end of my head or i have to whatever you know whatever you do and all those things are going to take you away from your your your own omnipresence see that your your your own omnipresence is already there it's already complete and already whole and then you come up with this idea that you're not complete and you're not whole and therefore i have to do something to become complete and whole and then at some future time i'll be complete and whole after i've done this that or whatever and see you can see that can never ever reconcile itself that that's something that can never ever be reconciled, that can go on forever.
Or the next book, the next guru, the next teacher, the next satsang. And so you don't have to find peace. You don't have to find love. You don't have to find any of those things. They're there already. The peace you're looking for is already there. It's already there. The thing that disturbs the peace is the mind. Because the mind is duality, the mind splits into subject and object. And so it's never at peace. The mind cannot be peaceful. The very nature of the mind is warfare. The very nature of the mind is division. So how can you... find omnipresence? And how can you find peace?
Or whatever you want to call it. How can you find that with the instrument that's the very antithesis of what you're looking for? What you're looking for you already are. So you don't have to actually look for it. You don't actually have to look for anything other than what you're... you really are as opposed to what you're not. And then you will see that the peace you are looking for has always been there. The love that you need to feel or you want to feel has always been there. That's your natural state. And all you have to do is to drop the idea of the me and the mine and my peace and my love and trying to personalize everything.
And just get rid of that idea that you need to find anything or you need to get anything. Because that could create a paradigm that could go on forever. Yeah. Thank you, Andrew. No, no. Jenny also just said that the cage of concepts is such a brilliant visual of identification with whatever the current story projected by the mind is. Hmm. Yeah. Marty, would you like to unmute? Yeah, I was just going to say that was good. That's a good point that was made just then. Just like trading one identity for another, you know, trading one identity for someone that's like, oh, I figured out like there's actually something in this meditation thing.
And I've just got to find it. So now you've created, you know, you've maybe traded in someone that was just focused on. Going to work and. I don't know, making a living, and now you've like turned traded for someone that's realized that peace is found maybe somewhere else and maybe I can find it through meditation. So essentially in the same you're in the same situation with a different identity, but one that's a bit sneakier, you know? And yeah, like whenever you're looking for something or looking for anything, there's always going to be, yeah. There always has to be an identity. Like there always has to be this pretend identity that is going to do that.
So therefore, there's always. False identity that you're creating as you do that. So it's like, yeah, it's a trap obviously. Um, and I, I mean, obviously I can't speak for anyone, but. Just saying. it, noticing it and just seeing through it and then, you know, that's that's not me. Then you're always going to be left with this anyway, as you as it's seen through. And yeah, I guess for some reason, I can't say why, but some some reason it just drops away. Just some some point just drops completely and and then it seems so stupid to think you would ever believe that you were that, that you were that story or identity.
It just seems crazy to even to even say that now. It's just I don't know, just like it's about knowing your true self. How do I say it? It's like such a corny or like, you know, really knowing your real self is such a funny statement because it's like everyone knows they're real, like they're real self. You know, who are you really like? If I said you're if I said you're useless, like unconfident, you are that you would tell me no. But that's not who I am and I'll be like, how would you know? And you would say, well, I know who I am and I know what you're saying is not who I am.
You know what I mean? Like people just you already know who you are. It's like the same thing as, OK, so this identity you have. That you're creating. Is that really you? Like, imagine if I imagine if this appearance here was telling you the ideas that were going on in your head about you. And I was like, you know, you're this person like. You know, you're that person. Essentially, if I could read minds and tell you what your brain was saying, but I was speaking it out loud to you, what would you say to me? You know, would you be like, yeah, that's me? Or would you say, no, that's not me.
I know who I am. You know. It's just one of those things. It's like if you take a moment to relax and, you know, just see through the identity that if it does pop up, just say it, there you go. Eventually you have the experience that there's just this body here breathing. There's a fucking sun and there's like air and there's all this stuff that's just here. Without a thought. And so you know that that's you, you know, that's me. That's the real. That's the real essence of who I am. And then the thoughts start to pop up. Now the thoughts pop up as I've seen who I am.
I know who I am. You know, I can't be I can't believe in these stories anymore. Anyway, thanks. Yeah, thank you. I see we are almost on time, but Jenny, would you like to add I see you had a hand up just just a couple of minutes or. or not really? I was just going to say there were two short things that came to mind. One in regards to identity. It's always interesting to see when we start to defend something. You know, if somebody says you're an asshole and if I say, oh, no, I'm not. Hello there. Hello. Ding, ding. Identity. You know, so in a sense, it's like if you say I'm an asshole.
Yeah. Well, maybe I am. Maybe I'm not. I mean, who gives a F-U-C-K? You know, that's one aspect. That was one thing that came to mind. Another was the seeking part. If we, probably all of us sitting here, we so do know that it's an illusion to think that if I get a better job, I will be happy. Or if I drive another car, I will be happy. We've seen so many examples of this all around us in the world where people are just thinking that if they achieve this or if they achieve that, then the sense of happiness will come and the world and everything will be all right.
And in essence, it's the same thing that we're doing if we are thinking that if I just learn to meditate, then everything will be good. If I do this practice or if I see that guru or if I crack this code or if I understand this, then I will be free. It's the same. It's actually the same. It's just, again, different words, different labels, different concepts that, as Kat so beautifully put it, the cage of concepts. I mean, that's really the big cage is all these concepts. And, well, how can we be free? Well, is there any? Is anybody not free right now? It's like Bob used to say, is there anything wrong if I don't think about it?
Am I not free right now if I don't think about it? You know, you could put it that way as well. So that's what I wanted to add. And that's a wonderful punchline to end the meeting. That's perfect. You have a good, well, just a couple of quick comments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And says, it's quite obvious what you are not when the concepts aren't being identified with. How can you truthfully identify with any description we cannot be described by lovely people? And Yvonne says as well, knowing the truth will set you free. However, you're never bound anyway.
Beautiful. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you for hanging out with us. And we're going to be here in a couple of days. So have a lovely couple of days and see us again if life moves you to do so. Lots of love. Bye, everyone.