This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
recording and we have there is dean and i and tony in the room and two cats and if people come late they may come or they may not we'll see So, John, are you up for a challenge? Everyone's waiting and there were also other comments in YouTube waiting for you. Oh, okay, great. Positive ones, I hope. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah, sure, let's do it. I'm excited. It'll be interesting as I...say a lot of this out loud typically it's not vocalized and um Yeah, if you guys have anything to add, please jump in at any time. But I'll say something I was thinking about. It's so cool that we are participating in a kind of informal tradition that's been going on since prehistory.
You know, this process of trying to understand and using language. Not to point to other words, but to point directly to experience. Which is kind of the nature of pointing out. And, um, Yeah, it's a real miracle that we have that capacity. So... Yeah, what I was thinking about was kind of continuing on some stuff I was saying last week, but I'll pick up with a pointer of Bob's and kind of the crux of the matter, which is really recognizing that you already are it. You already are exactly what you're looking for. This appeared to me, I kind of turned such an obvious statement into something that it wasn't.
I felt, oh, it's already within me, or it's a quality I possess. And the more I stick with this, the more I see, no, it's literally who we are.you are without exception. So a lot of the pointers are trying to help us to recognize and realize that we already are it, and what keeps us from that recognition is purely conceptual. Okay, so... Let's see, I jotted a couple of things down.So it seems. Yeah, kind of going back to Nisarga Dott and so forth, like a lot of the issue that comes up is that we create this false sense of a self and that within the expansiveness of awareness, a certain amount of that content starts to become identified with.
And then the issue becomes that we, as this illusory concept of an individual, wish to become liberated. But we can't be. So this process involves something of a paradigm shift. Where you're kind of breaking the fourth wall. You're not freeing yourself as a character. You're recognizing that you are kind of a character in this extensive movie. And that it's just one continuum of awareness. So when we ask, well, what do we do? It would kind of be like asking, what does awareness do? It's already doing it. It's already aware. There isn't anything more to it except for seeing through.where we are mistaken. And one thing I mentioned last week that I thought was really fascinating was that I was, I think someone's audio is on, so it's kind of, maybe if people can silence.
Okay, great. So when I was meditating, there's this sense of trying that can come about. And then you kind of try not to try and you get in this kind of mental not. And even at moments like that, to recognize that you already are it, is that even this process of mental entanglement, it still exists within awareness. So I looked at this kind of mental content of effort and saw, well, where is there any effort in it? Which is to say, this feeling of, say, confusion or sensations, is it trying? Is that content trying? And no, it's just arising with an awareness. And that's what's always happening.
It's just a constant process of there being this impersonal horizon.The placement of concepts onto this creates this illusion through language that it isn't one, that it's multiple, and that you're separate from it. So taking with that idea, you know, say someone is feeling sad. How do you know you're sad? What is arising in your experience that signals sadness? And it could be some sensations or some temperature, some heaviness, some thoughts accompanying that. But then ask, is your sadness sad? Is whatever you call sadness, is that sad? And you'll see, no, it's just some stuff that's present. It's just some content that's arising. And at that moment, there's a conceptual overlay.
Feeling yourself as a separate being, essentially, you now know what it feels like to just be a concept. And that's what we do with everything, whether it's a thought, recognizing that a thought itself can't think, it can't know anything, it's known. And this applies to the entirety of our experience. It's simply arising as content. And that's all of it. All of the senses.thought, it's just content. There's no center to it. So the question that comes up, well, if that covers all perception, all conception, all objects, all experience, then where am I? Where is there room left for me? Well, it's just the fact that it's known.
And this doesn't occupy space specifically. It's not an object. It's the subject. That's who we are.So in feeling into that, It's kind of like in the space where you are not identified with the problem solver. Everything simply is known. And you are the knowing of it. So I don't know if you guys want to jump in at any point. I can ramble forever. But I want to make sure it's connecting.No, that's really beautiful, John. That's really, really clear presentation. So keep rambling because I think it's beautiful and it's fresh and it's clear. It's lovely to hear. Okay, great. Okay, thanks. I'll keep checking in for encouragement.
Let me see here. Yeah, so let me see if I can emphasize a couple points more. But in this recognizing that we already are it, you know, Nisargadatta said, any path will lead you away from reality, any path you take. So simply sitting in the presence of this moment, really a lot of the work we can do is just to find where there are illusions and break them down. I don't really know exactly how this coincides with Bob's teaching and the Sargadot's teaching, but for me, it's just been a consistent process of seeing where there are dualities and recognizing that they only exist in thought.
And one of the central onesis what is knowing and the known. And when we recognize that all that is appearing right now in awareness is the knowing of it, to me that's where the rubber meets the road, where I'm really able to see that I am synonymous with this expression. Because something can't appear without being known, and something can't be known without an appearance of it.Yeah, I think I'll... I'll let you guys jump in a little bit because I'm kind of at a loss for words at this point. Okay, maybe Dino can ask you some questions because that, you know, seekers have questions. And answering questions always helps.
I think, can anything be separated from the knowing of... And like knowing is in itself, isn't it like a, it's an activity, I guess, like because the manifested universe appears like in movement and the knowing of it is moving in a sense. Because if there's no movement, there's no knowing. And it's amazing. Can you separate like awareness from knowing? No. Yeah. Nor being. It's the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, and if you have any sense like, you know, for example, that you exist, you can't find any sense of existence. Well, you can findthe fact that you are aware of something, that something is happening, and that's it.
That's you. That sense of any form of presence. And I think Bob had a pointer. Start with the fact that you are it. Remind me exactly what it was and see if there's anything separate from that or seemingly separate from that. Is there something along those lines? Yes, yes. He would say, You are already that. Start from here and see what obscures it. Because the realization that you are already here, that you already are, that you are, is constant. It's just we lose sight of it because we focus into the stories, dreams. Ideas and concepts like separation and the overlay of that projected world of objects and subjects and divisions and generally the language, the mind.
But yes, generally you already are. You know that you are. And no one can deny it. No one can argue with it. Yeah. You know that you are, you know that you're aware. And this is already exactly as it is and always has been. It's just that language comes in and in its own process createscreates division, plucks things out of the oneness as if to say that they are separate from that wholeness. But, yeah, it never really happened. Yeah. Yeah, that's why nothing ever really happened. Yeah. And this is where it's kind of my growth edge with it. But in recognizing that there's no doer, there's nothing to do, nothing is ever done.
And once this is recognized, nothing ever happens. Nothing changed at all. It's always the way it has been. Yeah.Like you said earlier about sort of keep remembering or noticing when the sort of duality comes up and recognising that, like as a, that's a happening too, isn't it? Like that's an automatic part of the appearance in itself, that movement as well. Yeah, that movement and I think also these assumptions. Because just like, for example, saying there's the knower, the knowing and the known, when you actually look for them, they're not there. It's just because we don't really think to question that. We don't think to question these conceptual overlays.
You know, that in, as it says, like in some, in the early Pali Sutras, like in seeing, there is only the seeing. In hearing, there's only the heard. But it's just the sense. So you go through the five senses and thought, and there's nothing else there. There's no other separate self. So that can be simplified in knowing only the known. And that is just simply this one singular or at least non-dual arising. And everything is a pure.simply as it is, even when concepts and everything else are filling it, it's just, I'm trying how to state it, everything's kind of in its right place. Everything is self-knowing and self-aware.
Not a thinker here. Or a seer here in objects, but just this kind of landscape that's of awareness. And within this landscape,It's kind of like... It's the recognition that it's fully already happening. This is in Zen what they call, they say there's no need to wear a second head. Because this is the conceptual overlay on everything that makes us think that there's some form of struggle to exist. You know, like we're holding on to something for dear life. That if we let go, there's any ground to hit. But all of these senses are happening automatically. And when you go through them, again, there's nothing left.
Sight, sound, sensation, smell, taste, and cognition and thought. And that's the whole show. I think one of the biggest shifts is recognizing this kind of, again, paradigm shift from thought being something that's used to figure out and to understand to recognizing that they are effortlessly arising inert thoughts. They can't, and it's like this kind of turnaround where instead of, again, using these words to mull something over and to figure it out, you see that they're just occurring. And thoughts can't think. It's just another sense. Like they say in Tibetan Buddhism, it's...Thinking is the sixth sense. It's just something else you're seeing. And that's where, when we're able to let go, we disidentify from thought and maybe some other senses that exist at the center of awareness or the seeming center of awareness.
And then this is what Ramana Maharshi says. It's like putting an iron in the fire. And the iron heats up to the point where it starts to think it's producing the heat. But once you pull it out, it just loses all of that heat. And this is where true self... Or like the small self thinks it's the self self. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I like when you use the concept of paradigm shift. I had this last week, a conversation with someone who has pretty good sort of conceptual grasp, one could say, but there is no such thing as conceptual grasp. But could relate to the fact that there is a perception, shift of perception, that the perception from the mind's perception and division versus the relaxed sort of gaze.
But it isn't really a shift in perception. It isn't assuming identity of a self or assuming the identity of a space. It is dropping the assumption of needing the identity altogether.Because if there is really just that space, that open field of energy, the unified field of infinite potentiality or whatever, Even calling it a field is already going too far to the forest because that's a concept. There is no field, really. There is no space even. Even the space is the imposition, is mental image. But that potentiality, which neither exists nor it doesn't, doesn't need identity. It isn't even there. It isn't not either. It's neither of that.
So trying to grasp it or having a conceptual idea of what it is, having a mental image of what it is, is not it. Conceptual or intellectual understanding is completely invalid. It's a mental projection, it's an image. So it is dropping all of that mental clutter. And that's the paradigm shift, dropping the mental clutter, which comes naturally with the sense of identity as a me. Dropping it all together, but how do you drop it? Is there even a you that needs to drop it? Or is just a spontaneous recognition that even the identity is arising in that field or no field, in that pure cognition, in that emptiness cognizing?
So seeing that's perfect.Seeing the identity changing. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's the observation that when we are, you know, our experience is that we're thinking, we're concerned, we're worrying. At that point, there's an identification. And we don't realize that. When you stop and you recognize there's just now, all of that loses its meaning. None of these problems need to be solved or attended to. They're fully complete as thoughts in themselves in that moment. And when you step back, you just realize, oh, there's just some thought stuff here. And then around that, there's some spaciousness. And there was this false assumption that there is a separate self attending to these thoughts or that is these thoughts, something along those lines.
And that's why you said, like, what is there to do? Again, it's just recognizing the truth to the best of your abilities. Um, And noticing that. Again, when it's all presence, all of it loses any form of meaning. The world around us isn't, it doesn't, it's strange to say it's meaningless, but that can sound quite negative or nihilistic. It's not that at all. It's just that you need awareness toto witness words and witness meaning. You don't need meaning and words to witness awareness. They're just simply what's arising in it. And it's not that it's meaningless in that sense, it's that it's beyond meaning. You know, meaning is one thing that exists within it.
Like reading a single page of a book versus having the whole thing. But the books, infinite. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautifully put. Yeah. Totally beyond meaning. Meaning is just another expression. Meaning is no different. Meaning to my life story, meaning to my journey, my relationships, my career, meaning to my growth, my trauma healing. All of that stuff is arising simply the same way as the sweat on the skin or saliva in the mouth. It's just the arising. It's a spontaneous arising. And we put so much habitually because it's so juicy, you know, like having a saliva arising, what a big deal. But having a meaning, meaning of life, meaning of God, or the importance of my marriage, or the well-being of my children arising in consciousness is so multidimensional, so juicy, so cruisy.
There are so many aspects to it. It's so loaded. It's so emotionally charged that it's literally irresistible. And the dream machine is engaged.because the attention is engaging, because it's so seductive in a way. Right, exactly. And the next thing, it gets habituated. And the next thing, it flips, you know, it's not a sunny day, wonderful feeling, how grateful I am for my wonderful family and a wonderful life. The next thing, how I hate my boss. How they disregard me, disrespect me, and this becomes reality. And I have people also practically on daily basis who spend a lot of, put a lot of emphasis on arguing for suffering.
Like, no, this is true. I hate my body. My body is aging. I had to quit my job because my job, my boss didn't treat me properly. My mind told me to do that. How can I distrust my mind? I, you know, and really intensely arguing that no past is real. Absolutely. And this is all fine within that movie. When you watch the, when you watch the show with meaning of your life, just like you were. the sunset on the beach you know yes all those components are seemingly real they are part of the picture but is there absolute reality to it or they completely mental images imagination depend on the just movement of energy Right.
And that is their absolute reality. So if someone's having this conception of their past and it's, you know, I know it. Well, look at it. How do you know it? What's arising right now that signals that you have a past? And then you can see that it's simply thought. That's where it's the reality of it. And one thing that's very kind of tricky about this process is we'll try to convince ourselves of something. You convince myself of a non-dual truth and I'm going to force it on myself in one way or another. Or I'm going to practice it sufficiently and it'll somehow just click. But it really is how it already is.
You know, and for Bob to say, I'm not teaching you anything. That's like, I think that just has to be driven home. Because if there's an attempt to understand it or to create a philosophy of it, then you won't get that you really already are held by it. You know, it's like if there's an idea, let go of that. If you have a concept of God, like I think it was like a Rumi or Kabir poem, like kill God. You know, it's a bit drastic, but, you know, kill that idea.idea let that go if you meet the buddha on the road kill the buddha um because it's already present it's not contained anything separate Yeah, yeah, beautiful.
I love the beautiful radical wording because really that's what stops the mind. That's what makes it pause because it's too shocking to even entertain in that regular way of operation, of navigating the dream. Right, right, right. Recognition. You're so on the ball. You know, any form of practice is going to be, I'll just let someone else in the room. Any form of practice is reasserting the idea of a me that is trying to achieve something later in other time than now. And not only there is a separate me that could potentially possibly get anywhere else than in the now. But there is nothing to achieve.
Right, right. Yeah, you're fully reifying the idea of a self and your practice limits you to what you already know or think you know. So ironically, it's keeping you in that place. You know, seeing these truths, I think we can go back to our kind of... You know, text of origin or sacred text and reviewing the Bible now, it has such different lens for me. You know, thy will be done.Right, is a very similar pointer. And Meister Eckhart, who was kind of a non-dual teacher in the Christian tradition in Germany, he said, it's so thy will be done that even if you have a will for God's will to be done, you'll miss it.
You have to even let go of that. And then it's just, yeah, again, what's already happening. And ultimately, even having an idea of what God should do for me is the expression of thy will. Because there is no such thing as my will. So if I have the illusion that I can dictate God how my life, my future, my enlightenment and all that other nonsense should look like, that life essence which propels my programmed projector to even display those sort of thoughts is still thy will. It's the life essence, the energy that comes from God. So there is no way out. Is already said. Even if I feel separate, one could say that is that sense or that feeling or that belief or that idea is just how that one life omnipresence of God experiences itself through.
Yeah, that's true. That's interesting. Yeah, it kind of seems unfair, you know, like I feel separate. I suffer. I long for oneness. I long for cosmic union.And I have very, very clear imagination of how it is going to look like in the future. And I know for certain this is not it. This is not right now. Even that whole landscape in which I imagine myself to be a person, I imagine myself to be separate, and I imagine myself to travel in time to the future in which I imagine myself to be joining. All that landscape is still how life is experiencing and expressing itself through that dream machine that is projecting separation.
And without that projection, there is no cosmic joke. Only when you see the whole landscape, the image of me looking at the image of time, looking at the image of the future in which that will actually, if you see the whole movie, you just relax and you look, wow, what a joke. And it's all happening right now in consciousness, propelled by the same, one could say, electricity running through the projector. Whether the movie is of a drama, whether movies of a comedy or identity, trying to find the grand enlightenment and become something in the future, doesn't matter what the content is, as you said at the beginning.
Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, of course, there is no one there. It's just dream arising. And I am the presence that even that is a subtle identity. But butThere is a presence here witnessing the dream. Oh, whether the dream is, oh, yes, but I'm still inferior. I hate myself. I want to kill myself. I'm not good enough. This is all content. Even the realization of the dream, waking up to the dream, dream doesn't end. The dreaming goes on. But of course, the individualized sort of a content of the dream is a radical, radical shift because the psychological suffering is not there anymore. But that's right. Yeah, isn't a difference what they say.
There is no difference between the enlightened and the unenlightened. There really isn't. It's still the same life using that particular vessel or vehicle projecting, casting the dream. And even that, again, we are moving away from the radical realization that there is no multiple vessels. It's just one dream. It's not like one vessel, another vessel, another vessel, vessels of a cat. No, even that is just the arising, the whole planet with billions of people. And then last night, you might have dreamt five other planets with other billions of other creatures. Where are they? They just, the content of the dream is constantly rolling. And what is here?being present for the dreams to just flicker and display for all those you know like like they they talk about the what they talk about the you know simulation or in the idea of of being in a game and just having that whole world projected it's not it's not a bad idea It's like, you know, whether it is generated by whatever human made machines in the future projecting the path, who cares?
Those concepts are really not necessary. So resolving whether it is the technicality behind this or not.In the raw experience, well, this is a dream machine. Dreams are changing. I can have a thought about tomorrow, not that I can choose it, but it arises and the world, the multiverse of tomorrow arises with it. I can have a thought about my childhood. And funny enough, even the science, which is just another dream in consciousness, has a beautiful, beautiful load of research of people being tested for fake memories. You know, like just get the bunch of thousands of Americans and just put them into a light sort of receptive state and ask them if they can remember that big bunny in the Disneyland that was hugging them.
And 60 or 70% can, after a while, recall that particular memory. And there never was a bunny in a Disneyland. It's absolutely impossible. More radically, people remember their childhood abuse. And that's tempering with the projector in a way that might not be very pleasant for that particular movie, for that particular dream. But from life's perspective, it's equally, wow, incredible. Yeah, I mean, that conceptual overlay, again, going back to what I was saying before, it's like, if you're in a state of suffering, and granted, this isis what's coming forth and what's being expressed right now, but like finding your suffering. How do you know, really know you're suffering?
And then ask us, is that suffering suffering? Is it suffering? Well, no, it's inert. It's just the arising of some material. But there's this overlay, this identification, this use of language to give it meaning that it doesn't inherently possess. And this can then be applied to so many things. You know, if you look at, it was Zen Master, I think it's Banke. He talked, it was such a similar message to Bob and the Sagar Dutt, but, you know, He said, if I'm enlightened, then everyone is enlightened. Everyone has the same knowing that's automatically arising. But what happens is that when you identify with one part, you're at war with another part.
He said that's like trying to clean blood with blood. It simply doesn't work. So in this process of recalling our trauma, being angry at it or trying to heal it, ironically in the world of what we call spiritual bypassing has become a big term from I think John Wellwood recently. The bypassing is one's attempt to change it, one's attempt perhaps even to heal it. Now, I'm not disparaging.psychology on a level that can be very important especially if it's preventing like a suicide in that moment like do what you got to do but eventually to come to a place where you recognize that there is in full allowance of it to be what it is it's unbidden unchosen arises on its own impersonally and that you don't need to do anything with it.
It will change and will heal itself. And actually become something very different when you're no longer projecting onto it, creating concepts of it, but really allow it to fully be what it is, then it starts to automatically change and heal. On its own that's yeah that's that's beautifully put you know the bob's pointer leave it unaltered unmodified uncorrected leave it as it is and if the urge arises in the whole system to go to a psychologist or go to uh whatever form of therapy do lobotomy anything that arises is also life or is also that omnipresence or god or the energy moving leave that as it is too and if that means that the body goes out schedule the appointment and go and lie on the on the sofa in a psychologist for under 30 years, leave it as it is too.
Recognize that every action comes from the same source. Don't take credit for any of it. Going to psychologists, not going to psychologists,Even the action of suiciding is still the same one life energy. Without that life essence, no one could poison themselves or anything. So even that, when it happens, it is almost like blasphemous to say, leave it as it is. But to say, oh, try to fix it is equally. Like if there is no one there who either leaves it or fixes it, any advice in that point is just another verbal diarrhea adding to the display. It's just also what is arising. So people who are fighting for preserving psychology or preserving therapy, they're not people.
There is no one there either. It's the life essence going through that belief. And just no different to Jehovah Witnesses knocking the door. No different to vegans or anti-vaxxers trying to change the world. There's no one there. There's no little self. It's just a projector that is being conditioned in this particular way. Whether you are a fanatical football follower. Or you are whatever else. That is just... You looked at Dean. Is that... Is he the fanatic? Okay. Yeah, and I think that, you know, and this is, okay, this is where I get myself in a little trouble, but it's interesting because even with the idea of something like, suicide, you know, you look at this.very kind of like objective stance of something like this Darwinian need for survival.
It only, it's our only, you know, drive and then we reproduce and so on. But suicide in its own way proves there's something more important, which is well-being, which is happiness. And that unless we have that, we'll even end our own existence because it's more important than existence, at least to that being. Oh, that's a great point. Yeah, elaborate. No, it's a good point. No, it is a good point because the love of being. It's not the love of agony, of slow agony. Even apparently... It's not how we're meant to live. You know, the chooks kept in the cages, in the tiny little cages, if they have a loose wire, they will try to end their lives because living in agony...
It's not a love of being. It's actually an offense of being. Love of being is thriving. It's not just merely putting up with agony. So it's nothing wrong. Even with the suicidal ideations. But the fundamental question is, do you really want to kill the body? You think you are the body and you want to kill it to end the agony. If there was a magic wand that would lift that identity,out of it, would you still want to die? If there was no pain, if there was no longing, would you still want to die? And mostly the answer is no. Though they are situation and they are justified and they're recognized in the medical field, when the machine is inherently broken, And it shoots the crazy pain of crazy itch that I heard of a story of someone who was having an itch on the forehead, literally, especially at night, fractured her skull and infected the brain because the machine was projecting those.
Crazy behaviors. And I know I had individual meeting with someone here at home whose best friend signed up for euthanasia over 12 months ago and went ahead with it. He's not here anymore. But the debilitating condition of chronic pain that was persistently taking the attention away from any other experience and any other joy that could possibly be experienced was just what life has offered as a solution. There just wasn't any better one. And if you are not the body, If you are not the mind, if you are not that arising experiences, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with the eternity of the sleep?You know, you go to sleep, you love it.
It's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, yeah. And I think for like the idea of this suffering, a lot of that comes into that place of identifying with one aspect of yourself and being at war with the others. And this is where all it really needs is that awareness, open, non-judgmental, equanimous awareness, which is what we really are. And I think it's pretty beautiful and makes a lot of sense that this is God. And, you know, in a lot of the Eastern traditions, also in the Western, I am that I am. But that very being that's aware of all that's arising, that itself is completely free.
That's the best thing one can do for someone who's in such a state of suffering is offer that because they're not in a place to offer it to themselves. So it's interesting in parts of India, and still to the day, there's a tradition where you can go up to a stranger and ask them to play God for you. And what that is, is they just, if they agree, they sit down with you and they listen. They don't advise, they don't do anything else, and you just talk to them, and when you're finished, you get up and leave. And I think that's, it's very beautiful that would be called playing God, just witnessing.Yeah.
Wow. That's lovely. Yeah. Can you play God? There's no me to play anything. Exactly. Is there anything other than God? Like if you want to use that. Oh. Oh. Let's just come on. Okay. If everything is God, like, is there anything other than God? You want to use that term, you know, or if it's energy, is there anything other than energy? Like, is there anything outside of energy or that's beyond energy? Or, you know, that's the one thing again. You know, before you mentioned something about... You know, like different projectors. And like if there's different projectors and they're all projecting the I am or that sense of presence, is there really like 8 billion different senses of presence?
Or is there just presence in itself? Omnipresence. Just omnipresence, which is back to the same thing, God. All God, all knowing, all seeing, all powerful. And that includes all the billions of beings that appear in the dream at night. That don't even have seeming physical existence in this particular setting. Yeah. Yeah. Only can go beyond. Where does the imagination, like,This is the limitlessness and the boundlessness of existence itself. There is no, what do we want to talk about, multiverses and parallel universes and dimensions and, wow, there's no end to it. There's no beginning to it either. Dream machine, they all have presence. That presence may be just as a mental projection, as a thought, or they may have a presence that feels really solid.
But presence nonetheless is a common denominator. And the most common denominator is the consciousness. That is actually wow to seeing it arising, seeing it in a daydream, seeing it in imagination, in the night dream, seeing it in worries or anything that arrives. The whole multiverse is present on that blank screen of existence, pure existence. Right. And I think that's the being consciousness bliss, that when consciousness is fully allowed to express unhindered, it becomes incredibly blissful. But it's still something that one is aware of. There's still a pre-existing awareness, it seems. That, like, I guess would be that screen on which consciousness itself appears. Yeah.It does strike me that becoming aware of that, not just simply what you aren't, but the truth of that kind of negative space that you are is very, very helpful to non-identification or to recognizing that you're everything.
I like the idea of negative space. That's nice. Yeah, yeah. Just that knowing. Yeah, that knowing. Yeah, yeah. And also, even the idea of the screen and the content. Is of course just in the language in the direct experience there's no way of separating the screen from the content there's no way of separating even when you dream at night the consciousness that is you that is that presence that is that field in which they are rising happens they can't be separated just like in the direct experience that which is arising in the field of seeing can't be separated from that field of seeing So even though it's just the language translates it symbolic language to symbols and dualities, but direct experience is uncompromisingly simple.
It's just like this. Right, it just is. And when you try to describe it after like recognizing its non-duality, it can seem incredibly paradoxical. Yeah, like you can talk about like content.consciousness and awareness. And all of a sudden, there's two things. There's a consciousness appearing in awareness. And it's my awareness that, you know, all of a sudden, you know, this is just language stuff. Sometimes it's so simple. It's just... This is it. And it's absolutely immediate. We don't know what it is. We don't know how it is. We don't know how to describe. We just know, wow, there's an undeniable presence. And that's it. And it's always that presence.
Like it's just always that presence. Yeah, I had someone arguing over the email, I think we, I didn't have conversation, but arguing for I am is not true for me. Because when I go to sleep, I don't know that I am. So that's the proof. Because, you know, like, When I sleep, I slept last night, I knew nothing. So objectively, it isn't true. So now, again, arguing for suffering, arguing for the reality of the mind, projected reality of time. Arguing against the direct experience of here and now are you sleeping right now no are you not here right now no but yesterday well but where is yesterday yesterday is a thought so right now you are experiencing a thought of nobeing present but are you not present to that experience of the thought of not being present so in the direct experience whenever you look you're always here when you don't look what do you bother that's not the direct experience right right right right right it's and it comes back down again just to the reality of it
Yes.
Like just to see what's there on its own terms and recognizing that whatever you are ultimately aware of, it's truly ineffable. Yeah. You know, I'm looking at your shirt. I can say that's a red shirt. But what is the color red to someone who's never seen it? You can't describe it. It's just an is-ness. There's nothing else. Yeah. Oh, Tony. Yeah.I'm going to move the computer. Yeah. I only popped up the word, I think. Basically, the void itself is just a concept. It's conceptual. So, you know, it doesn't actually exist in the experience. And essentially, it just comes up as every time. there's a looking internally, like there's never a void, there's always something that's arising and it's really just movement or stuffness or doingness or isness or existence, you know, all those things are exactly the same one thing.
Yeah, so basically... You know, there is no need to make existence out to be a thing. It's separate from non-existence because non-existence never shows up every time looking happens in here. And there's not looking actually happening. Just that, you know, that nub of a concept never pops up of... The experience of void, you know, just doesn't, the other thing pops up, the is, and, um, Yeah, and that's all there is.I've got one here, bad eyes. Yeah, and also I was reminded of something I really saw a bit on an old TV screen in a museum in England once. They had this show called Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men.
And there's this really funny episode where one of them, they're basically just like, flower pots with string held together and they just walk along like animate you know sort of moved what's that you know stop gap animation or whatever and um but one of them has like got a potato on a string and saying that's my pet dog and they go no no it's just a potato And so they're having this existential debate, these flowerpot men, having an existential debate about whether a potato is real or not. You know, has an independent, you know, identity. So yeah, that one just really puts to bed any kind of realness about anything beyond.
It's this, yeah. And I love what you say, actually. Yes, it actually, you can keep it, we can have this one. You actually don't even need the idea of existence versus non-existence because they cancel each other out. They both just... Whatever it is. Yeah. It's like the, you know, theorizing.about yeah it's like ultimately when you see the reality of just this language can't really go near every word every description is missing the point because it's the duality projected on just this yeah theorizing is just something popping up you know yeah another part of that um popping up yeah the gapness existence isn't this popping upness it's all just one question that's it essentially yes yeah non-void it's just all just one item yeah and void yeah i don't realize actually the degree to which void is a concept that's so totally unnecessary and you know a little bit almost embarrassed that thoughts never popped up Totally unnecessary.
And yet again, it's just what's happening. The descriptions pop up and the joy of describing, the joy of exploring it, see what it usually, and this is what we see in individual meetings and on the Zoom groups, we have bigger groups like last week we had what, 24 people. Is joy pops up when the attention is brought back to the source and when all the ideas of being limited of a person or any sense of confinement is let go of and exploration is of this it's just another element of business is just when the wow the axis pops up in a man for a moment you know yeah justYeah, another, no, no, more special, less special.
Yeah, yeah. You know, thing popping up, basically. Non-thing popping up. Yeah. And again, there is no even any requirement because the joy springs up in here. To even recommend other people to just go and enjoy no let other people joy pop in when they listen to music or they go jogging or they sit in meditation life is self-organizing it does whatever it does you look at the cut and it walks wherever life moves it to walk people go and experience some some special experience of uh of life life is experiencing itself through people going and fighting starting the wars dragging each other to court being right I think the notion of how that really exists is a little closer to less separation thoughts, if you know what I mean.
So, yeah, yeah, it's like if most of the thoughts that pop in on top of the other thoughts are that's all separate. that's a separate thing, then probably the thought, wow, that really exists, might not show up. Yeah, or the kind of way that we understand it, yeah. And I wonder if anyone on Zoom, we have seven people with us here, would like to maybe ask a question to John or...to the room or drop something or share something. Would you like to jump in on mute and contribute? Tony is suggesting the cat to me out of the camera. It's not a cat. It's a carrot.
It's a carrot. It's a potato. Sweet potato. Yeah, it's a ginger carrot. There's one thing I was going to say, too, in response to what was just said. Like, it's with... This use of words and concepts, like ultimately it's all, we're all full of shit. Like none of it matters in the end because it's what it is, independent of definition, and it's already one. This process is really fascinating though because it's, Ramana Maharshi said, it's like you have a thorn and the only thing you can really use to remove it is another thorn. So we have these words that have given us this kind of separation sickness and we're attempting to use words to undo that.
And it works only when you realize the arbitrary nature of it. So it's like, all right, I am trying to use words right now. I know it's not about words. I know they're not real. But if I use them to point back to the experience and to help me see something, then they're effective. If they lead to more words, you're just trying to use the sickness for a cure. It's not going to happen.Because like even in this idea of void, for example, something and nothing, and since it's non-dual, it's actually both, you know, you could say something like, you know, there's suffering here, I'm out of it.
Well, do you know you're suffering? So the knowing is free of suffering. It's free of everything. Yet in the end, there's only what is. Like that doesn't, what I said doesn't make any sense. It's like there's just what's arising. There's a knowing isn't separate from it. It's just a thing, but it helps cue something. It helps cue a recognition where we're off. And then you drop it. It's just worthless at that point. Or else you're just repeating it like a mantra and trying to force yourself to be something else. That's it. That's the enchantment of that beautiful show. You know, if I dream myself to be the body-mind, to be a separate person, and I dream myself to be sick and needing a healing, then of course, you know, all the validation and all the therapies and all the psychologists and all the gurus, they will help me exercise that whole dream, perpetuate the dream.
Move it through time, have the goal sets and achievement. It's not better or worse or different to any other element of the dream. If I want to be a ship's captain and I nowwant to go to school and learn the navigation and do other things to achieve the goal. This is the story to be projected on the screen. But this story is an entertainment for what? It's happening of its own. But because it is such an incredible entertainment, it isn't, I'm not just a viewer of the story. I, life, am everything. I am the actor. I am the dream. I am every feeling, every emotion.
All of it is made of me, of that presence, of that field. So it appears real. It feels real. You know, like a good movie that you watch. In the cinema completely completely takes away any sense of separation and you are crying with the hero or you were in a suspense and it's just separation collapsed and the entertainment is like wow so this whole human adventure is like that but it's even more multi-dimensional because if i hit myself it hurts if i hit him it may hurt my fingers but not really not not his so this is so immersive it's so incredibly more godly just like the virtual reality game like at some point i was with tanya and and navi another girlfriend on thea little adventure of Machu Picchu.
And you walk around the mountains and you feel the movement and then suddenly you are transported high up, you're flying and the weather changes like... Somebody grabs you because they're worried they're going to fall off the platform. That happens too. That happened to me, yeah. Yeah, yeah. People do. Yeah, they die there. Absolutely. People get sick. You must have got a lawsuit. Yes, they got a lawsuit. She's talking about the VR glasses. Yes. I'm here on Twitter. I've got it now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Name's gone. Yeah. Yeah, so it is this fully immersive experience is really no different. If you see that all of it is happening, the common denominator is that space like it's not space.
I like the negative space, will you say? Because it doesn't, it isn't, you can't put the circumference, you can't grasp it, you can't. Estimate its size or shape nothing negative space that potentiality it all happens there whether you switch on the tv you put the vr goggles or you go and have a chocolate cake or a roller coaster ride it doesn't really matter it all happens When you wake up and you're not sure that you've, like, you know, I woke up this morning, you're not sure whether you've slept, you know, if you haven't looked at the clock. And then you think, hang on, this is a bit weird being in a bus accident.
That doesn't chill. But, you know.And then like, because, you know, the memory's there or the memory's not of what else might have happened. And then the assumption is there that, oh, that meant sleep happened. But it's just, you know, for a moment, it's absolutely confusing and nothing can be said. Any which way, you know. Yeah. So we don't have any comments from Facebook. We don't have any comments from Zoomers. I may bring up some questions. I have some printouts of questions. I can bring up Bob's cards of pointers. I love question concept where you just come up with random questions and then people just give their random answers.
Yeah, any questions? Oh, you know, we do have a question, actually, that came in 10 minutes ago. Oh, lovely. From Craig. Okay. I didn't see this. Yes. Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. Sorry. Yeah, we missed that. Okay. You want to read it, Dino? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Dean, yeah, go ahead. There you go. Okay. So, yeah, Craig asked, is the witness separate to what is being witnessed, or are they the same thing? Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Want to answer that, John?Yeah. Is the witness separate to what is being witnessed? No. They are the same. If you have, actually, you take this and I'll jump on because I want to take it in a different direction, but I think that we should stick with this basic question first.
So thank you for your question, Greg. And this is really where actually I have a soft spot and I think we all may have to Bob's pointing where he actually collapses all dualities into the ING concept. So instead of the seer and the seeing or the nowhere and the known, there is just the field of knowing. That is just the field of witnessing. Within that witnessing, there is a presence, witnessing presence. The witness arises and the witnessed arise. You see that you can't actually separate the witness from what is witnessed. Because the moment nothing is witnessed, where is the witness? There is no witness, there is no witnessing.
Like, you know, when you go to coma or deep sleep at night, no witness arises, nothing to witness, there is no witnessing. Same with anything else. Same with seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, knowing, being. Everything is inseparable in the direct experience. And then the mind comes and divides it. This is me. This is not me. This is me.I, this is the world. I'm separate from the world. I come to the world. Not the world and I appear simultaneously, like what Tony was just saying, you wake up. And suddenly, ooh, there is a world and there is someone viewing the world. There is no separation. You can't have the world without someone looking at it, or you can't have someone looking at it without anything to look at.
It's simultaneous, completely inseparable. But in the language, in the way that interpreter here translates the experience, and this is absolutely valid within that dream, and it's very, very practical for navigational purposes, it interprets this is I, this is not I. I am going to move to the kitchen. I'm not... At one with the kitchen i the body gonna move out just like when you drive the car or you go in the airplane and you say i'm going to europe in the airplane so you're not the airplane you are sitting you're going airplane is moving or you're parking your car you say i'm gonna move forward i'm gonna reverse you're not reversing it's the car is the vehicle for navigation navigational purposes you call yourself i everyone else does that too But it is comprehensible.
It is practical. But in the direct experience, the I cannot be separated from this. But also when the attention is...not there. There's no recollection. There's no popping up of a thought of going to the kitchen. Oh, I'm in the kitchen now, you know. So, um, Yeah, there's going to the kitchen and there's a thought that a separate thing's going or there's not a thought that a separate thing's going. It's just a bunch of stuff showing, really. And there was like one thing you said there that I also wanted to like, yeah, drop off. It's not really happening, but it's not. Showing up what that was that separate that station's not showing up right now um was it about i'm going um you know even with whether the thought i'm going to the kitchen arises or not there's just also something else arising no it's not nothing's got its own category at all.
It's just like stuff arising, stuff arising, stuff, you know, this movement to the kitchen is thought that I'm a separate person doing that. There's a thought that I have free will and actually, actually doing it like as, you know, intending it and making it happen may or may not be arising. There's just a bunch of things that around, there's just a package of stuff going on actually. Yeah, that whether they're actually connected and how they're connected never really shows. So, you know, science has thoughts about that, but that's just another process arising.That's it. And when Kat is moving to the kitchen. There is no decision-making process of free will.
It just finds itself moving to the kitchen. No notion that there is such a thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They don't have symbolic language, so they don't create a mental image of kitchen. They don't create the narrative that I am choosing to do that. They make it put to action. Action happens. You know, all emotions are not really available. We don't know how much identification is in that pissed off with this. There's probably some, some bit of identification going on. What kind, what is that exactly? What does that even mean? But before, my head was too small and it was just going back and forth trying to figure out how to get onto my lap or not.
Yeah, yeah. Maybe some frustration arose. Who knows what numbers of notions actually show or not. You know obviously a whole lot less than what shows here but the thing is for the practical reasons again for the reasons of navigating the cat knows its size it has whiskers so it knows the size of the vehicle just the same way you know the size of your bicycle or your car when you're driving it doesn't mean that you have a mental image i am the car so as far as we know cat does not have an idea of there is a little cat and i am this no it's just a movement it's one with life For navigational purposes, the size is known, the needs are known, the emotions are arising, they facilitate survival.
When the cat is irritable, it responds.by moving away. When the cat is seduced to a positive, some enticing smell, it moves towards. And that does not mean that there is an identity arising, identity of something or the other. We don't know, like there might be a little bit of something of that sort. Apparently the machine doesn't have symbolic language to create mental projections. Yeah. So, but we can agree, you know, because it's a collective dream. We can agree that, yes, cats have the projector there. They have parts that they have language. They have past and future. They can identify. And as far as we know, we can't see their holding grudges or living in the past.
But we could agree. They make some dabs we don't know. We could agree on anything. We want to do in the dream. Then we don't have an example of nature. That was just yeah the example is invalid then if we agree on that on that story that's just a whole fun yeah that's arising but but this but the story of cats being free from psychological suffering because of not having a mental projection of mini me that is based in the in the symbolic language that projects the time it kind of makes it more fun and more helpful and more accurate with the observation of the of the creature not suffering Just moving away from pain and moving towards the pleasure and survive.I think just like everything else in nature.
Having anxiety, radar, like. Absolutely. Which is the way they avoid all corners. Like, I guess we avoid corners, but that's not total freedom. So there's probably, we have anxiety or is probably, you know, again, just another. Happening another happening you know survival is not even a thing to me like often like mention a survival i suppose it's got some point of value but to me it's just like another you know very blatant concept and so it's all yeah it's like one word every word yeah that's right yeah it's just survival we could call it a lot of the analogies you use with the computer and the software and hardware and all of that yeah it's that kind of thing so you could see the love of being which kind of makes the body want food when it's hungry makes the body uh want to be healthy when it's sick makes the makes the actions towards the well-being and towards pleasure and away from pain that's the that's the natural state Yeah, it is a natural thing.
It might not be moving towards, it might just be an ultimate freedom that, yeah. But it appears as moving towards. It appears as the monkey going for the fig tree and having the ripe fruit. Then again, you and I have got those, you've got the light towards and I've got the away froms. And our natural. We all have.We all have all of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every machine has all of it. You may have attention predominantly on what I don't want. Yeah, and you have attention predominantly on what you want. I do actually have pretty well, pretty fully a picture of I don't like whole time.
I wonder why I don't have more of that, you know. But it all comes back to the initial. That traumas or initial knots in the universe that that are not pure vacuum you know that are not just freedom that's just what what knots each the different knots that are floating around the universe knotted energies i yeah i like bob's term um what was it congealed energy i don't know where he did he yeah do you think he thought that one up or do you think that came from somewhere else i have no idea it's a nice one congealed energy Yeah. But it's like, it's like swirls in the river, you know, as opposed to the free flow in the middle.
It's all that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And then the whole universe is the swirls in the river. They all kind of spontaneous unfolding of different movement and the weather changing and the seasons changing and the bodies changing and the thoughts are changing. Oh, sweet. And then some of these knots, like joy arises at this whole kind of discussion and around other knots, they're like, What are you putting us in a box for? Just shut up. We don't want to hear this. It's just all different parts of life. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing that non-dual investigation offers is tois to question the narrative overlay over psychological suffering because you say you mentioned anxiety anxiety arises anxiety arises it's just a label but we could say it arises in the uh in the animals well they is anxiety again it depends on the on the definition the movement away arises in the in the animals as well but there is no content saying oh i don't want to move away oh it means that i'm separate or it means that there is something wrong with me or how do i medicate how do i fix it that stuff doesn't come it's just spontaneous movement the same way the winter just ended and it
didn't fight with the spring oh no i want to be here a little bit longer don't come no it's just spontaneous i mean it might be it's tiny i'm just wondering but not that it's actually important in any way as nothing is there might just be a tiny nub of um you know this this this hair me it's like me you know getting annoyed by that noise you know who knows a nub a small nub a notion never were not worded obviously in like other animals like gorillas that it is worded that can be worded if they're trained up but yeah yeahSmall description of the universe.
Absolutely. To show how neutral it was. So, John, would you like to take it in another direction where you were thinking of taking it last week? Yeah, well, I mean, a couple of things. One, I was just going back to that early sutra I had mentioned. Of the Buddha where someone had come to him appealing for his teaching and the Buddha was taking alms at the time out with his beggar's bowl and he said, you know, I'll teach you when I'm finished with lunch. He said, no, no, the guy had come a distance. He said, I could die before then. Anything could happen. You oftentimes find this urgency they have.
This is the passion you need for the Dharma. But the only instruction he gave the man was, and I was referencing this before, like, And this is back to Craig's question, the witness and the witness. He said, you know, just recognize in seeing, there's only the seen. In hearing, there's only the heard. You know, you're breaking down the duality there. So he goes through five senses, and he says, in cognizing, only the cognized. Right, or in thinking only the thought. And you, in that, there is no mention of a self.have essentially sensory information and the arising of thought. And with that, you've kind of broken down the witness paradigm without even mentioning it.
It's just this arising, just this happening. The other thing I was going to say, and this is what we may have been discussing, which I don't know if it prompted the question or caused confusion, which is this nature of the screen in the movie. And that can create another sense of witness-witnessed or duality. But it's, again, it's just getting... Caught up in the description of it. But I find that can be all hearing all that before I understood what it was experiential, which is very confusing to me. And I'm still not terribly good at describing it. So that was the other direction I was thinking of.
But yeah, I'm not sure. I have much more to even say about it, really. But that's actually really good. I like Tony often describes it that she says, oh, there is no existence. There is no being. There's no, it's just stuff popping up. And that's really what you say in the thinking, just thought. But we also have, and this is again, the confusion that arising from putting ineffable into descriptions and words. We had a guy who used to come on Zooms. Who used to read a lot of Ramadan.and learn it and he really wanted to teach it without maybe a very deep reflection on what it means and he would say no i tell you how it is because i know how it is there is only a self there is only an experiencer there's only a seer there's nothing that is seen there is nothing that's only experiencer And I say, look, there are different languages of pointers.
Sometimes it is actually quite cute and funny and a good sort of a strategy that life takes to completely confuse the mind. So the mind says, ah, shit, I'll surrender. I'll give up. It's like, okay, I can't, I can't, you know. It's only the self or it's only what arising or it's just they arising, it's experience. What the heck? I can't get it. No, you can't. But I did actually have to pull him out. I say, look, I don't think this is really being helpful. We are trying to speak Sailor Bob's language here because people who are in this group have benefited from this particular language.
So there is a natural resonation with this particular style and carrying it that wave of resonation. It just rings true. The happening. Now the idea of me and the idea of a content comes later. Maybe the idea of me doesn't come. And I can totally relate. The idea of me doesn't really come anymore. But even if it does,It is equally the content of arising as the idea of a mic. It's just the content of arising. So the contents arising, that's it. In the experiencing, in the arising, that's it. So and this one is it really it doesn't make other pointers invalid. It doesn't make another style of pointing to it invalid.
It is just the play of life. Going and pushing those strings and looking for the resonation and if it's if it rings through if it kind of touches the heart oh yes of course wow yes that's it that's what brings that that beautiful clear reflection of light shining in the eyes like oh and the natural relaxation and then you like that cat just happy to be without any arguing for the suffering arguing for the mind yes today is fine but tomorrow i'm gonna lose the job i'm gonna get old i'm gonna get sick i'm gonna get cancer and There we are in the cinema again, watching film of about what is not happening right here and right now, betraying the unborn Buddha mind for that movie and creating anxiety, moving that chemicals in the system.and experiencing suffering.
And this is the point in which, again, we string another chord, we read another pointer, and, yeah, right, it's not happening. Oh, it's not here, it's not now. All right, so what's here, what's now? Hmm, okay, this room is arising. The thoughts are arising, feelings are arising, sensations are arising, sounds are arising. Wow, okay. Mental images are arising. Oh, the thought of tomorrow is arising. Oh, the thought of past or childhood trauma. Wow. Exploration is arising. Exploration, absolutely. Yeah. Which doesn't make it less neutral, you know. Totally, totally. It's not better or worse. Whatever is arising is just the content arising. Yeah. One of the things is, you know, oh, but there's a sense of me, there's a sense of a body.
Ah, you know, like it must all be, all these arisings must be happening to this sense of a body. But there's no truth. Like if, look, you know, the sense of a body isn't arising as well. As everything, as a thought, as what is seen, as the actual activity of seeing. Yeah, so they're all the risings. And yeah, I think that body one is something that, you know, comes up a lot as well. Oh, it's happening here.Where's the here? Well, I can't tell you exactly where it is. It's just, I just feel something that it's in this, you know, it's visceral, it's in my cells, it's in my body, it's in my, but there's actually, that's, it's all in the rising.
And if you notice, like there's no big toe. If there's no sensation of that big toe, it doesn't exist until there's a sensation of it or whatever. I don't really get that one, but it's made me realize I get a sense of a viewpoint in a dream. So like in the dream, like there was a bus crash, but suddenly it was a little mini bus and I was outside while it crashed. And then suddenly, like I'm going and looking for my baby brother, but I'm using a modern cell phone. And like, you know. Then suddenly I'm in the bus looking. So it was weird. There was a sense of a viewpoint at all times.
Yes, absolutely. The memories are shared. Yeah, so that's a bit of a weird one. Yeah, yeah. Viewpoints are related to your body. Yeah, yeah. And also sense of contraction, sense of uneasiness, sense of, yes, but I'm still unhappy, existential angst, the sense of I'm separate. I don't like to be here. This is something wrong. It must be different. I don't feel cosmic union. And I want to feel one with God and one with everything. And this is not it. What is it? That's emotionally charged mental projection again arising. I'm not good enough. I feel I'm not good enough. I know I'm not good enough.believe it into the reality.
I believe it so fiercely that it appears real. But what is it? Again, another piece of arising. No different to the arising of that cut here. Yeah, exactly. And that's why there's no ever any need to argue against that. You know, okay, I hear that you're not enough. Like, where do you, who's aware of that? How's that arising? Like, just looking at the reality of what's happening, and then you don't need to argue with it. And even with the sense of a body, when you break it down into those five senses, you take away the concept of body. It isn't so clearly defined any longer.
There's a patch of sensations, which also don't have a boundary. There's no inside or outside really felt when you actually... Feel into that sense. Well, awareness will go right beyond the skin. You know, it's not contained by sight. There's not an edge in sight. It's just color merging with color. You know, these things, yeah. That's it. Yeah, it's just arising. And then idea of a body, you know, see, the more you know about the body, the more complex the idea. What do you know about fascia in your system? Until you learn about it and you create mental image.What do you know about your spleen? Or, you know, the adrenal glands or something like that.
Those are all things that are conceptualized and believed into existence. The brain. What does the cat know about his liver or lungs? And what does it care? What does it care? Oh, my liver is not good enough. Or maybe my mental projection of myself is not good enough. How many stories do we make up about ailments? We have some symptoms. We make up these long contracted stories about what is actually going wrong. And then we go, well, it was way easier. It could have been fixed in two days. It's just the lovely stuff that shows up. And also to which extent, and that can be probably enhanced by some special trainings, you know, seed powers and all that stuff, but incredible effect that the placebo has.
You know, feeling unhealthy and experiencing yourself unhealthy, believing yourself into an ill health, hypochondriacs, and the other way around also. And everything in between too, because you can't choose to believe what doesn't feel right in that particular setting. I can't choose to make myself into a conspiracy theory because it just doesn't really, the whole machine is just not resonating with it.So even the conspiracy theorists are not guilty of being conspiracy theorists, because this is just how life plays this particular flute. And it's just also rising. The greatest conspiracy of the lot is me, myself and I. And that is actually a really good closing statement, but I still wanted to read one of the cards because I just brought them here, one of Bob's pointers here.
That one is to invite people to resonate with that. You can't be the body which is constantly changing. It is not the same body you were born with. It is made of elements interchangeable and inseparable from the environment. Changes are known from changeless. So you are inseparable even as a body from the environment. And you are not the body, you are not the environment. At the same time, you are the environment. Well, who actually gives a shit about defining the mystery of existence? Why would I even want to put any word or any limitation of that incredible woof? I am. We can figure it out anyway.
It can't. That was on two levels. Even if I believe I am God or I believe I am nothing and I believe I am this, who's there to believe?anything whatsoever. Who is there to assume identity of space, identity of a person, identity of me, me? Why not just see the urge to identify, the urge to put the definition, the name, the shape, the form, the urge, the fear of, oh yes, but I can't stand not knowing. And medicating that fear with mental projections and images, which is really just a play because it doesn't solve anything. The belief doesn't really eradicate the fear that it has caused at the first place.
Or a piece of bed crochet in the blanket of life. No, that's a good one. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Zoomers. Thank you, Facebook lifers. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, John. Thank you for a beautiful spiel and for a really, really enjoyable interaction. And thank you for the questions. And lots of love, everyone. We're going to wrap it up and see you next time. Thank you. Thank you.