Meeting with Kat, Tuesday 1 September 2026 (Facebook live)

So now we're going to still having a couple of people joining us. I'm going to give them a wait, a little wait. And we are ready to start. So we usually start, and I see now two names that I haven't seen before, so I'll just give you a little rundown. And welcome. The way we hold these groups, we start from the fact that everyone is already aware of presence, so we are all equal. There are no teachers, there is nothing to learn. It is about simple reminders that we offer to each other about that which is already present and just needs to be recognised. So traditionally, Bob, whose pictures are behind, evolved, developed and evolved the system which roughly looks like introduction first.

So where other people sometimes may offer meditation when the mind goes completely quiet and blank and it's beautiful because it eventually reveals the natural state underneath the chatter. But then there is no questions, no doubts. So as the mind re-establishes itself, you land in the same sort of a predicament as before. So Bob actually starts from a set of reminders, the introduction, the string of pointers which bring back the recognition of natural state and point to what obscures that natural awareness of existence. From that point, we enter a discussion. So if people have questions, they are most welcome to bring them to the table. If anyone has or would like to offer the answers to questions or perhaps their own pointers or stuff that help them along the way, because ultimately, as I said in the beginning, there is no one here who doesn't already fully abide in the awareness of existence.

It's just the extent to which it is simply recognized because that awareness of existence, that presence of consciousness or that witnessing or cognizing emptiness, the capacity of knowing or that wakefulness is already here. And there is no one who is not already here, already awake, already awake. They are aware that they are. And in that naturalness of awareness of existence, in that luminous radiance of existence, the presence in that the stories appear, the stories of me being lonely, incomplete, separate, miserable, unhappy, a story about other people having it better, or story about other states of mind that are supreme, that are more pleasurable or more complete or more loving.

All those stories, all those ideas appear because there is a background of existence of pure, pure consciousness. If you were in coma, those stories about incompleteness, about enlightenment, about not having it and needing to seek it or recognizing it, and needing to seek it or recognizing it, and needing to seek it or recognizing it, and needing to seek it or recognizing it, couldn't even be there. So we give recognition to that which precedes all the story of incompleteness and separation. Bring the attention back to that basic space of phenomena, basic space, like awareness of sky, like awareness without which there really is, there is no problem.

There can't be a problem. But usually, people who find themselves in that space, find themselves spiritual seekers, find themselves in a search for completeness. They seem to be living in a perpetual sense of incompleteness and problem. They seem to be deficient, uneasy, living in the story of me. And that hurts, that's suffering. So we look at the source of psychological suffering, how and when, how it has appeared in that screen of consciousness, how it managed to obscure that radiance of awareness, that luminous radiance of existence, and how to look past, how to... see behind, look past, look through it, look through that projections, that stories, stories of yesterday, what happened to me when I was a child, stories of tomorrow, what is going to happen when...

if I lose the job or my spouse leaves me or whatever. The stories of not now, of that, and not only not now, because the stories are also about me. And looking at that core idea that there is a me, that there is someone there, someone here in the upper body, some miniature little dwarf that is running the show and is having all those terrible traumas and worries and fears. We look at that idea, if there really is that person who wastes his or her potential, or who's been abused, or who may have their life turned upside down, if this or that or the other happens.

So traditionally also, because again, there is, everyone is equally aware of existence, and those who recognize it, and those who have questions too, are invited to perhaps, if you are moved to, give us an introduction. Anyone who is here with us is equally eligible to string together a few pointers, what resonates, what is a good reminder, what is helpful, what explains it in the clearest, most natural, way, the whole show, the whole shebang. Anyone take care? Anyone would like to give us the introduction? Okay, I'll just keep going then. We have another one going. Dino, will you? No, no, I'm not going to give an introduction, but I'll just comment on your introduction.

Okay. And I just think it was really good to just show the whole, the whole thing of the whole dilemma, what appears to be the dilemma, why people have actually come here, what they're doing, what the whole search and seeking is all about, and what we're precisely doing here. I just think it was really well shown out. Like, you know, to begin with, we've got to be clear about what we're looking at, why we're here, what we're doing. And I thought you explained that very well. Thank you. And if you could stay on mute and just intersect and just support it, it's always nice to hear it.

As many voices as we can hear is actually precious. And Kapil says, I feel an overwhelming need to escape this body. I'm exhausted by the constant cycle of identifications, emotions, desires and suffering. I recognize the concept of a mini Kapil residing inside me, but it doesn't feel like a marble. I believe it feels like my absolute reality. I am speaking from a perspective of that very entity. How can I see through this? That is a beautiful, very well put, very clear question. And that's the question which I'd say probably is pastoring most of the spiritual seekers. But I see Blazhenka has the hand up. Would you like to answer that?

lajenka oh yeah maybe that maybe uh sorry the camera is not camera is off tonight um yeah it's just a kind of like a little spiel you already that nobody can give you what you already have nobody because you already that you already are the biggest trick and and you know misstatement out there it's like you know looking somebody else got what you don't have and they can give you they can teach you and don't get me wrong i fall for it as well myself because i believe you know i don't have it somebody else knows somebody else knows the way you know i am the way and if i'm the way then that's it how do we know that well i exist i'm aware there that's it that's it the search can stop it's it's really as simple as that you are that you you the one who is listening to this voice now the one who is aware you that that's it that's it and we and i've done it as well you know beat ourselves up and and like oh where is it i want it i want it i want it i've got it i've got it i've got it you just need to be silent enough to feel it just to hear the inner voice and um yeah it's there it's there and there is um all this like oh i believe this and i believe that and i had this experience and i'll it's a game of the mind and you know how do you solve the problem with the same way it was created it's the mind mind created a problem and we use it to try to solve the problem you can't you have to let the mind just be and do what mind is there to do tell the story pull you out of the present moment and um just recognize that and not beat yourself up and that happened don't feel i'm doing something wrong we never do anything wrong the life just takes you that way it's me one way and someone else you know it always finds the way it's like a river either is gonna go up up the rock under the rock or around the rock or whatever but yet life will find a way of getting you there because you already there just when you know I don't know who said it but it's like when you stop striving and you surrender it just happens but mine will tell you like no no no you have to keep doing just another lesson just another book just another video just another guru and you need to become just like them no you just perfect just as you are and you know how great it is so different but one same amazing just amazing life is amazing yeah so I don't know so that was just a little bit a little bit for me mmm okay so just love for for everyone because that's just me all of you is me and all of you is um I'd yeah just the pointer you know from Bob I remember this years ago he's um he's like a Sun catcher saying you know when the sun comes up it means then things don't go to the way I want so I always like I don't know and how like to listen and be like, come on is that what I want?

Um, a big time energy from Bob very important. Just like the one thing that all these him. sun hits the um the crystal all these like different colors are showing on a on a wall and that's pretty much us that's it one soul one life showing as many already here already perfect yeah that's that thank you yeah thank you beautiful and a beautiful also energetic component that heartfelt carrying energy and andrea would you like to answer capil's question it's a really profound question um yeah i think see capital is buying into what he's not rather than seeing what he is like i would say i would think of a metaphor a metaphor of a metaphor of a metaphor of a metaphor of a metaphor of a metaphor of a metaphor of a metaphor of a description if you imagine a cinema and that cinema is you know 80 100 years old and it's it's had the screen that's had the screen the same screen up there all the time and it started out showing black and white film it started showing charlie chaplin and movies that didn't have any sound and they then it moved into sound and then you had war movies and then you had cowboy movies and then you had disaster movies, The Poseidon Adventure and The Cowering Inferno and all those movies that have played out on that one screen.

And has the screen been altered, modified or corrected by the movie playing on the screen? Did the screen catch fire when The Cowering Inferno was playing? No. When there was a movie about floods, did the cinema all of a sudden get flooded? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. A cowboy movie with people in the audience getting shot? You know, when there was a gunfight? No, because it's all just appearing on the screen.

Now, if you compare that to your awareness, what you are, you were there when you were a little child. You saw yourself as that small boy. body, running around, getting into trouble, going to primary school. You were there when you were a teenager with the hormones going crazy and lots of energy. And then you were there as a young adult. And you were there as we start to get older, the body starts to get aches and pains and problems. You were there. But you were not there as those events. You were there, those events were taking place, but you were the witnessing. To observe all that transient phenomena, it has to be seen from something that's not transient, that's not moving, that's totally still, totally omnipresent.

And that's what you are. You're that omnipresence. And all the emotions, the thoughts, all those aches and pains in the body, all these things that are troubling you are just the phenomena that's going on within you. So you have to then see what you are as opposed to what you're not. It doesn't mean your aches and pains are going to go away. It doesn't mean you're going to stop seeing life, but it means you will stop buying into it. And you will stop taking it seriously because it's all transient. It's constantly changing. You may well be sick. You may well have cancer. I've had cancer now for 20 years.

I was diagnosed with cancer. And I've never actually, it never registered in my brain that I had cancer. The specialist actually wrote a letter to my doctor saying, oh, he's in denial. He's in denial. He's got cancer. And he needs to stop. He needs psychological help type of thing. But 20 years later, I'm still okay. I'm still fine. I still feel okay. And I saw a specialist here in Thailand and he said, well, you've had prostate cancer for 20 years. You should be dead. And I said, well, no, I'm not dead. I'm here. I'm right here right now. And I think a lot of that's due to the fact that I'm not dead.

I'm not dead. I'm not dead. I don't, I kind of don't even sort of think about it. I never thought, oh, well, who cares if I'm going to die, type of thing. In some ways it was a blessing because I gave up thinking that there was a future. I just, I had to live in the present because I thought, well, maybe I'm not going to live much longer. So I have to live in the present. So to Kapil, I would say, see what you are. you are as opposed to what you're not. And has that awareness that everything's a peer-to-peer when you were a young person, a teenager, an adult, has that ever changed?

Has it ever been altered? Has it ever been modified? Has it ever been corrected by what's going on within it? No, it hasn't. It hasn't. It can't. It cannot be altered, modified or corrected because it's no thing. It's no thing. It's not an object. It cannot be objectified and no object can hurt, harm or change it. No objective phenomena can actually hurt, harm or change what you are, which is that unchanging, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent awareness. So see the object. See that. You see 100% that's what you are. And then why would the world, what's going on in the world bother you? Because that's transient. It's not real.

It disappears every night when you go to sleep. It comes back in the morning when you wake up. So see it as being just the transient and then you'll start to see the world from a different perspective. You can't take it. It's like Jesus said. We are the world. We're the world as a light garment. Don't take it seriously. How can you take it seriously when it's not real? It's not ultimately real. You can't say the world is not real, but you cannot say it's real. It's not real, but it's not unreal. It's an appearance. It's a phenomena. It's appearing within you and the form is the emptiness and the emptiness is the form.

So we're not talking about two different things. I'm not talking about you have awareness and then you have everything that's appearing in awareness as a phenomena. It's something separate from it. It's awareness shuffling, patterning into seeming form. So it's the one without a second. And that's what you are. So see what you are as opposed to what you're not. And then ask yourself, do I have a problem? Yeah, that's perfect. That's beautiful. And we have, oh yeah, Andrew, you have the hand up. I'll just put it down. Don't worry. And I'm going to just, yeah, I'm going to just build up on this one because this is really a good angle.

However, there are other angles of approaching it. Like, you know, you can actually see what happens. What happens when all those identities and stories are paused for a moment. When those ideas, because obviously you say, you know, this overwhelming need of escaping, exhaustion, constant cycle of emotions, desires and suffering. Yeah, it is a suffering. And look, you know, almost every seeker could relate to those points in which it is just overwhelming and exhausting. And it's just been decades and nothing happened and just sick and tired of trying and reaching nowhere and just running within the story. Just looking in the mind because where else would you look?

There is no other. If the looking is happening, the very act of looking is the asserting the luck. If I was already complete, I wouldn't be looking for completeness. So if there is looking happening, that looking is in the thinking is in the thinking mind. So how to get out of the mind, how to stop, how to see through it? How can I see through it? You see, when you when you actually mention a cycle of identifications, that's a good clue. And Andrew was pointing out, you know, throughout the timeline, you were a child. Your identity was different than it is today. When you were a teenager, the identity was different.

And then, you know, you get up and you are having a particular experience. You are having a particularly good day. You are these. The world is friendly. People around are nice. There is a different identity playing out also. And then things get overwhelming or a world get a little bit shaken. And again, the projection of the world and the projection of me in the world is different. So even that I, that mini me, that Kapil inside or Katarina inside, even that is constantly changing shape. It's constantly changing form. You know, one moment I'm a child, another moment I'm the body. I'm walking. I'm hungry. Or yet another moment I'm worried.

So I'm not the body anymore. Now I'm the mind. Who am I really? And who am I right now? And the mind answers the question. I'm the person. I'm the mini me. I'm looking. I'm suffering. I'm trapped. I'm identified. But in the next moment, the mind will answer the question differently. Oh, yeah, I'm okay. I'm all right. It's not too bad. And yet another moment, it will answer the question yet differently. So that identity that is imposed on that pure consciousness is constantly changing. That costume is changing. It always feels like this is the same I. Why? Why? Because underneath that costume is that which is real.

It's the sense of existence, sense of presence. That one free, open consciousness without any costume put on it, without any actor. You know, like Andrew was talking about the movie. Imagine that, you know, you are an actor in the theater and you take up a role. Now the costume is of whatever, a young child or an old guy. And in that costume, you're playing whatever the costume requires. And then the role ends. The costume is dropped away. Another one is put on. What happens when for a moment in between the roles, in between the costumes, there is nothing to play and mind has nothing to say.

And there is no definition of what I am available. In other words, I am. In other words, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? In other words, who am I without the idea of being a mini me trapped somewhere? And this one cannot be explained. No one can tell you who or what you are. Andrew beautifully put, you can see what you are not. That which constantly changing, you are not because you are seeing that changes. So you are still here. Even when the child is gone, you still here. Even when the grumpy guy is gone, you are still here. Even when the, oh, I'm all right.

You still here. And if there is no costume, there is no identity. There is absolute quiet. The mind has nothing to say. You are still here. But what are you? If mind doesn't tell you I'm a person, a male or female. Or tall or short or whatever. What are you without those concepts? Can you actually even establish what you are without any definition? Can you actually establish your own size, your own boundary without a thought, without the concept? Can you establish anything, your age, your gender without the idea? Without the memory? Without something someone else told you? And if you can't, because obviously those are thoughts.

If for a moment you just park those thoughts aside and see you still are. There is still an existence. There is still presence here. Here. No boundaries because boundaries require thought. No gender because that requires thought. No species because that requires thought. But you still here. That you know directly. You still here. What you are. You can't say without the mind. But that you are. That primer I am. That sense of existence. Without costume on it. What's wrong with that? No identity. Yes, but. Yes, if. Identity comes straight away rushing. The mind straight away creates a mask. Personality, person, ideas. Rushes with all the files of memories.

Yes. Let it do it. You saw a moment ago that before that rush of costumes, concepts and masks, there was nothing wrong. You were still here. The seeing was still happening. Hearing, tasting. The whole world was still looking just the same. The walls were still solid, not shaken. Everything was just as it was. Not good or bad. No pleasant, no painful, no beautiful, no ugly. Just this. Just this. And then the mind come and started labeling and defining. I am not this. I am this. This is small, limited, separate suffering. Sick of it. Overwhelmed. In pain. All those stories. But now. If you had the moment of realization.

That without those stories. Existence was just fine. Then with those stories. Is it not fine? Equally fine? See, the pure existence like Andrew was saying. like andrew was saying it's like a screen screen is empty no problem now there is a problem projected on the screen but does the screen actually get touched by it there is a problem there is a fire burning explosions shooting is the screen ever burned that pure existence is that ever touched by suffering imposed by the mind and yes i've been there for decades so i understand okay but how do i do it how do i stop being identified with the mind i believe that i am the one the one mini me inside suffering how do i like you ask beautifully how can i see through this how can i see through this there's only one way you that identity that is constructed that mask that costume that is constructed to interpret everything you see has to be put aside even just for a moment relaxed see what constructs that sense of identity to actually hold to the story that i'm a woman i was born in poland i'm australian i am 50.

to hold to those stories i have to use a lot of processing capacity i have to remember and then i have to maybe add the traumatic childhood and maybe add that failed career or whatever or or losing husband or mother being abused whatever the story holding onto uses a lot of attention a lot of processing power to keep that shield that identity intact, to relax it a little bit, to just take a deep breath and put it aside for a moment, to actually be curious, what if I just stop engaging with that solid brick of a castle around me, of I know I'm a person, I know I'm female, but just relax it a little bit, not fuel it with that seriousness, with that fanaticism, that belief, fanatical belief that I am a person, I am the body, just question, maybe, just a chink in the armour, maybe, maybe that's just a story, maybe.

Maybe there is another way of looking or experiencing what I am, who I am, without that defining blocks or rigid concepts, because this part no one can do for you, this is the direct seeing, relaxing the rigidness of concepts, you know, like if you look at the suffering, what is it, the idea that things will get worse, when, in the future, no, no, now, but now is already here, things are as they are, yes, but maybe they'll get worse, no, it's too late, they're already as they are, and there's nothing wrong with that, yeah, but in one second, that's future. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Yeah.

Those ideas create tension in the system. Recognizing that tension and just relaxing a little bit. And the ideas, yes, but I'm confined and limited. I feel this contraction. Okay, so there is a sensation of contraction arising. Interesting. Let's experience that sensation arising. Yes, but that's me. That's I. No, no, no. That's just a sensation. Finding, again, relaxing a little bit of attention, being present and curious to what arises. If that's psychological suffering, I'm contracted, I'm limited, I'm identified, I'm inside. Okay, let's be curious about it. Let's actually examine that really. Like, hmm, how is that even constructed? How is that? How is that even manifested?

What makes it feel so real? And then what actually helps relaxing is, again, being present to the whole environment, to all of the senses, not just the thinking mind, but also to the background sounds. Just noticing them. Attention. It's already withdrawing from that thinking mind and scanning the environment for the background maybe smells. Or maybe there's sensations somewhere. Or maybe the background peripheral vision. Just relaxing that attention from thinking mind and expanding it a little bit. And in that expansion, again. What's arising? Because if the mind, if the projecting of the past and future, the problems and suffering and me and my story and my challenges and my being sick and tired of suffering and my being identified, yes, of course that's overwhelming.

But there's more to this moment than what the mind has to offer. And of course, if the mind is offering only beautiful, fantastic. And if you're not feeling the same. fantastic wonderful dreams and memories yeah that's easier to put up but then it creates a habit of just engaging with the mind and mind is like a weather it responds to to the environment in the same way also like a weather is predictable to certain extent but in the large is actually pretty wild if there is a good mind state and pleasant memories pleasant entertainments thoughts about friends thoughts about how blessed i am in life counting blessing how lucky what a beautiful dream what a beautiful love story yeah pleasant but if the attention habitually focuses in the mind the next minute the day is over and the night comes the summer is over and the winter comes and instead of a pleasant memory of how blessed i am how cursed i am everybody's better looking has more money has better partner wow and now attention habitually abides there again the trick is relaxing that attention and again one could say okay who is there to relax it we say there's no one there is no mini me so if there's no one there there's no mini me and i'm not saying that there's no one there there's no mini me so if there's no one there there's no mini me and i'm not saying that the mini me can't relax the attention who's gonna do it well who cares who is gonna beat the next expand and contract the heart no one's gonna do it there's no mini me doing it even now and yet it happens so the same way and this is why we hold those meetings inspiring one another to remember that it is really really basic simple and this is why we hold those meetings inspiring one another to remember that it will never change naturally there've been a lot of people who didn't put on the singing lefting the ins and preventing the movement starting from the right but the sacrifice changing from the left and pretending not to do that so you must backward to the beginning that is chance it is chance when you are nothing in the sense that this natural state of was relaxed and free that all the freedom that ever is under the net and when the attention is engaged in the drama of me when the whole attention is engaged in the drama of me the drama appears real just like when there Ralph Hubert Douglas the sub dormer built by Schillery or memeumbled the drama appeared real just like when the whole presence of her soul is engaged in the drama of me when the attention is engaged in the drama of them when the attention is engaged in the drama of mesh the drama appears real just like when the soul begins to appear real just like when.

well. any other belief fanatical belief you know the belief that earth is flat or copernicus before him you know that the earth is the center of the universe and the sun rolls around it believed fanatically that was the truth that's the reality any belief this is the capacity of this incredible projector just like a really really good engaging movie you go to the cinema and you really want to be taken by the movie you want to forget you're watching a movie that's the good movie and you identify as the character and you feel their feelings and you feel the suspense and you cry on the movie that's the good movie and now we're talking about god playing the show for us for itself lila the divine sport how good is that gonna be full immersion 4d 5d whatever many d's you want multi-dimensional immersion in playing a role of a character and feeling seeing hearing tasting touching so convincing so real and yet it can still be seen true through the relaxation that virtual reality suit is not who you are it is it grants the possibility to see hear taste touch and smell yes but so does any other extension of it bob had the hearing aid it also grant or enhance the ability people put themselves into the airplanes they move faster fly but they don't call themselves airplanes they dream at night and the body is lying flat and the dream body is flying in the air which body are you you can see then that what is the common denominator in all of those different modalities all the all those different dreams is that you are always here you are here the body is small a child's body but you the presence is always here now there is a drama the mind playing a drama yes but i lost the job i lost my money i lost my investment my my wife left me but you are here to watch it and then the movie gets pleasant but you are always here i see there is there is another comment here and says no real difference just no sense of i've lost my money i'm lost or can't find anything no one has found this thing i'll say it again no one has found what you are looking for the freedom is letting go and letting the seeking rest that's beautifully put and that's that's really really lovely put the seeking is the assumption that something is missing and something is lost and seeking is always in the imagination it's always imagining other states other places other time seeking is the problem but seeking is not it's just what's appearing if you can actually relax and see the seeking for what it is and marvel at it because even desires even even seeking even suffering grandpa found something neworen is here is looking for something new to you is coming home and, well, what's going on here you are waiting looks on the second floor ok, So that's, So that's, you see then you are already, didn't you die yet.

And now, now truly, Just the appearance is just the content of consciousness. And that space, consciousness is like space. It allows everything, even seeking. But yes, from the perspective of the mind, there is no hope. That mini-me can never get free, can never find anything, can never liberate itself or achieve anything. I see Dean was on mute and Hank put the hand up. So, Dean, you were first. That's right. I'm just going to continue a little bit like this seeking energy. I think it's like an energy. And it formulates itself from a really young age. Apparently. And there's a sense of looking for something, whether it's the next toy, the next experience, the next friendship, relationship, the next sense of safety, the next sense of something.

And it's like it snowballs as we grow. And then we start looking at seeking the meaning of life, the meaning of our existence, the meaning of who we are, the meaning of what this is. And it's like it takes. It takes on this energy. But it's not what it seems to be. You know, it's not really as it's not some powerful entity, really. And, you know, as I listen and, you know, we talk about this relaxing cat, about relaxing into it. Like also there's something that I'll just briefly share is that sometimes there's a not relaxing. Like there's a real not relaxing. I remember coming to meetings.

I remember listening to messages, reading and having these insights. But there was this furious energy to try and get something. And then all of a sudden a pointer or something would land. And oh, I see the timelessness of. And then there was this relief for a few days until the mind made up another story about it. Now I've got this. Now I've got that. And then and then all the dissatisfaction and seeking would start to. It was like these loops and these patterns, these recurring sort of struggles. And and then, you know, like it's a funny thing how it works. It doesn't. There's no there's no actual formula to anything.

And, you know, it might take something like looking at everything possible, like trying very, very hardest and looking and reading and practicing and listening. And, you know, doing whatever it takes to feel incredibly contracted and incredibly helpless and incredibly hopeless and incredibly vulnerable and useless. And so all these things sort of I remember in my particular case, they all had to be exhausted. And in that exhaustion of. Trying to sort of the mind just trying to really grasp everything because it couldn't recognize that it was that it's like it could recognize everything else other than it was that because it can't recognize that because that is that which which actually gives the energy for the mind to appear in the first place.

There's no mind without existence itself, without life itself. And so. The sheer exhaustion in in efforting. Results in a like a total, total surrender, total, total relaxation, a total exhaustion. And then, you know, that's. That's another way where where where where things, you know, because if you're drawn to continually look and search and seek and and try and find a solution or an answer or resolution or some sort of piece. And you realize that there's no way out because the very act of looking at, like you said at the start, like it asserts the very lack. So. And that mind and that sense of of being this separate thing is is all about lack.

That's why it's seeking. It's seeking searching because there's a sense of lack. That's all part of it. And any movement that it tries to look forward to to improve it. Reassert. That that it is this lacking little individual thing. So, yeah, like Vazhenka said at the start, start with the fact that you already that. And but if you can't exhaust every other possibility of that, which are not like what Andrew's mentioned, and then, you know, eventually relaxation is going to come if you can't relax now, relaxation will come in some form or another. And. And. And. And. And. And. And there's no way out. That's it.

There's no way out. There's no way out. That's it. Yeah. That's my little bit. Mm hmm. Yeah. That sounds beautiful. Hank. Yes. Hank, would you like to mute? Yeah. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. That's wonderful. Dean has said. I was just I had an experience like, you know. Yeah. That I. I was I was looking. I was listening. And. i was listening i was observing a mind you know my mind like this and then i feel like i was listening to a radio or something sounds coming and all things from outside also and from inside it was connected like this and i feel like uh yeah it's all happening in in the space but you know it's like a radio listen to the radio and then you know some song is nice or some program but yeah it was i feel very free with that with that uh although i know it's still a concept but this it is a something that uh i want to share but go ahead that um i feel uh you know also when my wife is yelling and then i can just i can choose to you know it's just happening and i don't have to get rid of it or react on it or not not react on it also i can just it's just happening you know just like a radio and yeah that's my uh it was my uh my takeaway from last week also a little bit after the meeting i felt i had the same kind of experience so when you say yeah that's everything is happening in the in consciousness or in the whatever you call it yeah that's all pretty given and yeah so it's all been very helping me so i i want to thank again for fantastic contribution to this okay so i'll just i'll just say to thank you o corresponds to do you want to transition to the eric do you want to forward that or maybe just um with me please thank you um yeah it just works here and there it's the gold standard jetting and yeah yeah i don't need the silence also for that i can just see it's not what i am you know that it's just like a radio playing i love that radio so yeah okay thank you yeah thank you hank that's that's beautiful because yeah everything is happening in the consciousness including the responses of your own body you can hear other people yelling you can see yourself responding within that field of consciousness this is cognized it is known and i have a message here uh admin says i'm in england and i have to get back to work now this is my first time on this meeting i really enjoyed it i remember nisargadatta said i'm nothing i'm nothing i'm everything because nothing is everything and everything is nothing yeah beautiful and welcome again hopefully you can sneak out some other time and feel free to join and rejoin whenever you know if you have 10 minutes it's okay to just come early or come late or or whatever suits and this is yes just a collective inspiration session and uh nisargadatta as you may know uh was a teacher one could say teacher of the uh in in even in a want of a better word of sailor bob who is my late husband and whose meetings uh we are continuing and admin says thanks a lot cat see you soon yes see you then and i have another couple of did you want to add something they know yeah i was just going to read the two messages that you missed okay well you can read them no no go for it capital continues and says how can i be absolutely certain i am this background awareness when society entirely ignores it and if this awareness is the truth why did humanity create this false conditioning in the first place who started it it feels completely unfair that i must endure the suffering of unlearning it now if our parents had just taught us our true nature from childhood rather than conditioning us as separate entities this suffering would have been avoided why were we set up to fail like this um beautiful wow wow and um maybe replies or or comments for me you could say it took someone to judge me and bring out a sense of identity i had that i was holding on to i was looking at that and i couldn't find this person that was being grafted onto me and i was identifying with yeah see uh capital that's that's really really kind of like a cry of of why would god be so cruel i remember having that question uh before when i was still seeking having that question to bob and i was extremely shy i was so socially awkward and shy i couldn't speak in public i couldn't even ask question so to actually even be able to ask it i need to get a puff of marijuana just give myself a courage and i ask him why why this is so unfair this is so wrong you know if god love why we are living in perpetual fear and anxiety why nobody gave us and of course i wasn't courageous enough to to say more than two sentences and just withdraw and be so shy that i wouldn't even hear the answer i had to have the recording later see the idea that there is an agency that loves you or the agency that hates you or the agency that wants something good or something bad to happen is already the idea of separation and it already comes from the mind if you look at the at the whole field of consciousness in a way you look at this intelligent self-organizing systems you know the way planets are forming you know gathering the gases moving together gravitating towards each other and then creating some sort of a constellation and then some sort of a shape and then some long life emerges from there and it has adaptability there is a love of being you know that intelligence or that god or that life wants to see hear and experience itself so it gives itself some life form some amoeba or some crocodile or or bird and now it can see in the far or it can crawl or it can swim and now in that self-organizing life force uh the the the the first mad idea of symbolic language arises and suddenly and that human patterns the basic communication of course all the animals communicate but the communication is not symbolic the communication is immediate the birds or other creatures are communicating uh vital things about the predators or about the food or about Anything that is immediately accessible or the sources of water and so forth.

And there are no symbols or representations of last winter or the next decade. They only live in the perpetual present moment. There's no timeline projected in that present moment. This particular capacity came with our species, with another vehicle for God to know itself and experience itself. And it came on slowly. It isn't, you know, the story will tell us that Adam and Eve lived in the garden of Eden. And they only knew God and everything was perfect, was paradise. It was paradise. They could walk naked. And they had no concept that there was anything wrong with being naked. And then they ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

This is good. This is evil. This is dark. This is light. This is night. This is day. This is past. This is future. This is when they started differentiating, learning symbolic language. And that's symbolic. Symbolic language requires, at least for the navigational purposes, putting a label and symbol on the body-mind. You don't go around and say this constellation of atoms and micro elements and cells called Katharina needs right now to go and empty the bladder. No, that doesn't make sense. Symbolic language has to be efficient. And then since early childhood and our parents and their parents and generations down. They pass on the language, which hypnotizes that whole constellation of being that whole shape, that whole cloud of vehicle, the costume.

To start referring to itself as I, I, the person I female, I Polish or Australian or whatever. And that self hypnosis becomes a belief. And that belief repeated day in and day out. Initially, the young child does not believe itself to be separate, but it gets hypnotized. It gets related to it, gets labeled, and it slowly takes on the identity. And initially the identity of three or five year old isn't really that strong. I'm a little Johnny. That's it. My daddy is stronger than yours. But that doesn't really. And comply with, or doesn't really express appropriately the mystery of existence. So it feels like, no, this is not quite right.

It doesn't feel right that I'm a little Johnny. No, I'm being. And the child start rebelling and adding elements of identity. I'm artistic or I'm autistic or I'm this or I'm that. And the identity builds. And this cage of concepts get more and more solidified, more and more rigid and tight. This is a process that evolved naturally. And look, if you look around, it took us to the top of the food chain. You know, if you look at the other creatures, look at those birds living on the trees and every night they are all looking for food. They have to hide. They have to hide.

They have to hide. They have to hide. They have to hide. There is no safe place there. They don't have houses. They have to constantly be on guard on watch because something wants to eat them. Or they look for food and it's not that easy to find or look for partners. Half of them may be unfulfilled, never get into romantic relationship, never get to procreate. And they have absolutely no concept about it. They just roll with life in that bird's body roll with life. They never complain. And we're living in the houses. There's no rain. There's no strong wind. Every night we sheltered and we have so much to complain about.

Because of the symbolic language, because of the capacity to imagine that this could be different. I could live in a better house. I could have better face or better body or more money. This is wrong. This is in just this shouldn't be this way. I could have better childhood. But I'm not. I'm not. But could I? Just like this birds. This is the unfolding. The only difference between the paradise and this psychological suffering is the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Believing the thinking, believing the identity. But why would God do that? Well, he wouldn't. This is self organizing universe. And if you look again.

Why? Why is the possibility for realisation of your infinite nature as the whole open field of consciousness, the eternity of now experiencing itself through that costume and seeing reflection of itself all around, glimpsing its infinite nature. nature why is that only possible for humans precisely because we dream of separation if there was no night there couldn't be a day if there was no pain there couldn't be pleasure if there was no dream of being separate there couldn't be an awakening so enjoy that dream enjoy that suffering as much as horribly horribly it sounds this is the prerequisite for realizing that this is not what you are this is not who you are this is just that build up you know like building up that incredible tension so when you strengthen it even more and you let go you the bliss of relaxation you know the buddhists are are equating the grand enlightenment with walking thousand miles in the tight shoes with the stone in it and then taking them off hammering your head with that psychological suffering or pain and then putting it down the psychological suffering is the consequence of belief unquestioned belief in thought and when that is seen true suddenly the thought that I am identified the thought that I am something in particular drops away and I'm still here the experience of seeing hearing tasting touching smelling the consciousness still shining kind of reflection of the consciousness still of the consciousness still shining and by this key of the consciousness when you can feel the process of the consciousness when you can feel the process which is in the inner space right in your the inner space which is in the inner space and realize how this reality inside your consciousness in your personal and bodily, theピ sending you know thisonnapple decision does your life is going to change and realize how this reality in your mental state is actually false you know who you are if you believe it is fantastic let me tell you about the Finished Process you just want to covered it we call this the P guarding werde still the same pain still hurts pleasure still satisfies but there is no concept of Who I am there's no one there needing a cost a concept or costume and that makes it that makes a dream worthwhile that is like wow it doesn't mean it's always fun it doesn't mean that what the mind wants always safe always pleasant never raining never predators lurking all trying to get me and eat me during the night no that still goes on and everybody every costume is gonna die but if you realize you're not your car it's like Andrew you know he learned that he has a cancer he shouldn't be here so why bother even thinking about it why bother dreading about it engaging with that this is the miracle of now this is the aliveness so there isn't like an evil god full of hatred and vengeance that is condemning people to the prison of separation separation is a byproduct of self organizing universe and and if you look at benefits of language you know I'm a woman there is four billion of us now I'm part of the group of four billions just because of the gender of my car now you are or I'm Polish or Australian again I'm a group I am one with the nation now I am we all known at least we are whatever 19 or 20 or 18 of us there is you know we are all one we are all together we relate to each other because of the identity because of the identity we manage to Rick the whole civilization so we don't have to live on the tree like a bird and put up with rain and predators because of the see the benefits that the language the byproduct yes psychological suffering yes separation yes imagination that i could have been different my life could have been different people could have been different and that imagination haunting me i want more money and i don't have it shit i suffer my neighbor has better car and i don't have any car oh shit i suffer that imagination is a really really low price that psychological suffering really really low price for what that self-organizing universe has achieved through that human species building the uh incredibly complex networks within that within that dream and welcome walter haven't seen you for a while any comments no yeah can you hear me yeah yeah yeah yes hey it's been naturally all right it's been great i've had time to be with myself you know and uh that's what it's the best thing i did is to stay away inwards inwards deeper deeper everything's just opening right up i had to trust myself and let go of the rope you know and then i'm going to go to the next one that go the joining cord and following cord and hanging out it's good it's great to have this companionship that you can you need the break i needed the break anyway because it was becoming a bit of dependency yeah or it was time to uh uh it's a long time to let the uh life cord lifeline go And see what happens.

Perfect. And if the lifeline keeps ringing, that's perfect too, because you're not doing any of it. No, but it's good to let go, because I know then what I know. I'm not saying, oh, I've got to come back. They've got the truth, I haven't, and all that bullshit. You don't need anything. You don't need anyone. You don't need to do anything, go anywhere. And you don't need to avoid going anything or doing anything. That's what's just ever evolving. But I had the answer in my son about three hours drive, 300 k's away. And funny story, I was coming home and I got a bit of a heavy foot.

I was doing about 140 k's on the back roads. I was playing that beautiful car, one of these racing cars, WRXs, you know. And I got in a really old Lancia, which is not, like I said, it's 1977, can't keep up with this. This is a proper race car. They should be illegal. It's hard not to speak anyway. That's not the story, except partly. I was coming home and I went out through this town in the backwoods and I knew I shouldn't be, I was a little bit over. All of a sudden these flashing lights are behind me, you know. I'm in deep shit. I knew what was going on.

I didn't know what speed or how much I was over, you know. Anyway. I ended up in a woman copper. Chased me for about 10 k's, flashing lights, and I judged. I couldn't pull over. It was too dangerous to stop there because we would have been too close to the road, off the road a touch, you know, in the backwoods. We had a couple of semis come along. Someone would have got us seriously hurt. I would have got hurt, probably hurt. Anyway, we stopped. She finally gets a place where I said I can pull over here. There was a car in front of me as well.

So she pulls me over and she says, licence, breath test, all this really aggressive manner, you know. Goes back to her car and after an eight, ten minutes, I thought, fuck, that's a long time she's taken. Doing all the records checks to make sure I'm not wanted or whatever, you know. I'm not a proper criminal, which I probably am. And she comes back and she says to me, and she looked at me and she said, look, I've decided to give you a warning. Well, I nearly fell over backwards. She said, you're 18 kilometres over the speed limit, right? They don't let you off. I don't know what the fuck happened.

And this is what they were, I said, thank you very much. I much appreciate it. I'm just bugging off. But in all my years of driving, you know, bloody hell, a lot of driving, never, and I've had a few tickets here and there, and I've still got six points or seven points up now, but I'm getting good at it, you know. But what was amazing, I was okay with it. I thought, oh yeah, I've still got a few points to play with, you know. But I just, I nearly fell over backwards. I have never heard of that. It was just like, the thing about it was, it was totally unexpected.

I would have, and it was a good unexpected thing, haven't I? Gratefully accepted. But funny how the universe plays funny games with you. It just, if you allow the unexpected, amazing things to happen. It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just. Amazing things sort of happen. That's what the whole of life is, if you did, when the flow is happening, I didn't expect, yeah, I'm not racing around saying, well I am actually, in that sort of just gentle flow of life. But when you back right off, the unexpected is just so glorious. You know, just these simple little things, the unexpected, and how about everyone's, there's, happiness comes with it.

from everyone. I think she was happier. So I could never explain it. It's only a small thing. I'm not making it into more than it is. It was just an incident. But it was just, you know, yeah, that's the flow. So that's about what's been happening. Because it is about, I think, a month or something since I've talked. It probably may be a bit longer. So and it's all easy. I'll tell you the biggest parts were when I was reading Bob's book on about page 149 of it. I am the power which is forming. I'm the power that is forming this. This um, and what was what's the magic words?

See? That's good get the book. But I don't need to. I'm the power that's forming this pattern. That's it. Energy, that's it. They're back in power. G.L.: Right. G.L.: Energy, that's it. G.L.: Right. pattern. I'm the power that's forming this energy pattern, continuing to form it, and I am that livingness. It's living me. That power is not living, well, it is. It's living this, in this life, or whatever it is, it's living me as me, Walter as Walter, and that's it, and you just let the rains go, you know. So I saw that, and over the page where it says about the totally ordinary awareness, or I should say wakefulness awareness, that's there all the time, like I'm just looking around the room.

That's your awareness. It's that simple, and that's unlimited. That's like, it just seeps everywhere. The unlimited is just, and it limits more and more, and it's like, what's happening? It's like an experiment. It's just a gentle, a gentle allowance of it to be. That's just all self happening. And I don't have to hang on to anything. And it's sort of like, I never expected that. This is the biggest gift. It's a lot better than that copper stuff. Yeah, that's just playtime. Well, life's playtime really. Is this life, if you allow it to be, is just playtime. And I don't have to worry about it. I say all these things like, you know, I am, well, the key to it all is that there is no body.

I am this, I am present and aware and sit with a simplicity, not make it, it just, when it, it's like, it's just the beginning really. But it's not, it's not necessary. Whatever happens, it's just all, it's all good and all okay. And just don't hang on to anything. And that's it. That's all I got to say. Get along with it. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. Whatever happens, it's all good. And don't hang on to anything. That's, that's perfect. That's perfect. And Dino, do you want to read a comment maybe? Sure, just following on from Walter. I think Nisargadatta said, the unexpected is bound to happen and the anticipated may never come.

And it's so, it's so real. It's so, yeah. And I'll read a comment from Ant. I feel like saying every expression is like a parallel universe, the same parallel, the same universe, but through different vehicles. What if X equals Y, all leading to zero, exploring all possibilities? And I'm a mathematician somewhere. I'm one of those. Well, I'm not really, I've got no identity. That's just playtime again. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Dan. Yeah, playtime. And yeah, parallel universe. Every expression, absolutely. It's like a multiverse. It's a multiverse of infinite potentiality. It's like, I think, it was, yeah, it was admin who was saying, reminding Nisargadatta's quote of, I am nothing, I am everything because nothing is everything and everything is nothing.

Yeah, the multiverse. X equals Y, all leading to zero, exploring all possibilities. Yeah, if you, if you, if you think, of think of that infinite field of pure potentiality finding a way to vibrate into all those patterns and shapes and forms and experience itself as everything experience itself as music experience itself as the painting or poetry or Kokkabara in the forest or the crocodile or the whale or the stone or the virus or bacteria or or the solid block of matter or the liquid of fluid the whole ocean the fire Wow and now in this humans although animals also dreaming machines I often sleep on the紛 with my cat and sometimes the cat is having a dream and once actually cat jumped in the dream and i fell off the bed so those things do happen as well the multiverse of dreams within the dream not only every physical expression that arises in the field of of cognition of cognizing physical expression like a sound or like a sight or something seen but also every thought what a multiverse what a possibility again this is another angle for capille to see how suddenly god got this incredible capacity to imagine the whole timeline the whole you know not just like any other creature that just this moment you know not just like any other creature that just this moment you know not just like any other creature that just this moment you know not just like any other creature that just this moment present moment now seeing hearing present moment now seeing hearing present moment now seeing hearing tasting touching smelling tasting touching smelling tasting touching smelling where nothing is wrong and everything just where nothing is wrong and everything just where nothing is wrong and everything just appears and moves on and there is no appears and moves on and there is no appears and moves on and there is no psychological suffering because there is psychological suffering because there is psychological suffering because there is no imagination of other moments that no imagination of other moments that no imagination of other moments that should be different or should be different or should be different or and then suddenly through the human and then suddenly through the human and then suddenly through the human pattern through that more sophisticated pattern through that more sophisticated pattern through that more sophisticated biocomputer which has the capacity biocomputer which has the capacity to imagine of imagine what is not happening think of time other than now project the history project the the dramas wow what an incredible projector what an incredible machine that field of infinite potentialities through one person in one minute of existence of that person through hundreds of mental images multiverse within the multiverse if you look from the perspective of this imagined creature that is believed into existence and is trapped in that cage of concepts made of the body and made of the mind and locked out and trying to find the way out shit yes that's tough but that's only one of those dreams in the multiverse that is the god or the omnipotence is the experiencing if you actually see that this is a dream the belief in being the mini me trapped somewhere it's just one of the possibilities one of the options and the next minute there's no wonder it's just this seeing hearing tasting touching smelling just this and then the thought arises yes but what about yesterday and then the whole mental image of the yesterday arises again projected on that screen this three-dimensional interactive screen space-like screen and you see the whole show and you can't help but wow now you can understand that even the by-product of psychological suffering well it's kind of justified but only from that point when you realize that you can't simply say now this is what it is just you are not that mini me because when you believe you are shit shoot me now i can't help i just want to leave the body i just i don't want to be here i hate it but this is the mind speaking because the idea that i hate it because i am this limited little mini person somewhere here is just a thought appearing on that screen if that thought is not there who hates it who wants to leave the body who wants to escape the suffering if that one idea one mad idea is is questioned or is looked at with like wow this this is wild wow this is brilliant like what a brilliant show and then you realize there's no one anywhere it runs by itself there's no creator who is so evil that it punishes its devotees and condemn them to a very short life full of pain and ending in death there's no one there is the self-organizing pure potentiality glimpses itself right now but it's only the relaxation and i have this set of cards which came to me when i was doing bob's pointers and they actually have you know like usually the the deck of cards would have four colors the first i put the relax relax only then you are capable to reflect and just see wow through reflecting but from the relaxed awareness then you can resonate also you can actually listen to the pointers and you can resonate oh yeah that's rings the bell yeah it makes sense and then the recognition is obvious yeah just that you're gonna say cat too that's right relax is such a powerful one i've i've always used that especially when i'm in deep i'm in deep shit and the other two that i found one is right from the beginning when nizagadatta is the not nizagadatta ramana wrote out that thing about neti neti not this not that and goes down you know what am i this awareness which alone remains and right at that and then what is the nature of awareness existence just starts with the existence consciousness from those two the bliss autumn Actually, the bliss comes straight away from just exist.

If I simply just exist and just go into exist, the bliss is already happening. And the bliss and consciousness are just, wow, you don't need anything else. Yeah, that was amazing. And yeah, there's something else I was going to say, similar lines. But something so simple, so simple, when I revisited it and I really understood what it's meaning, I said, wow, that's all I needed. But everything flows, like you say, all a huge, the whole universe just opens up from these simple relaxes. But it is true. That's probably very, very powerful. And that's a very powerful one to say, because I don't really feel, I'm always relaxing a lot, you know.

Yeah, so thanks. Yeah. Yeah. So in that relaxation, because another word, and thank you for reminding that, you know, the being, consciousness, bliss, or existence, awareness of existence and bliss, when the attention isn't spent on actualizing limiting beliefs and unquestioned assumptions, yes, naturally is relaxed and naturally is blissy. Only when that attention, that processing power is spent into creating all the monsters and devils and all that, well, yes, the bliss gets obscured, because obviously other things are being attended to. And Kapil says, thank you, guys. Love the sessions. Something always seems to click for me. Oh, beautiful. Thank you. And thank you for bringing such a good value, such a thoughtful, really, really well phrased questions.

And I think we are nearing the end of those sessions. Dino, do you have anything to add? No, no, except because I am, all the multiverses are. And the great perfection is that, like everything is perfect when that relaxation actually takes over. And you see everything for what it is. Everything is, nothing can be exactly what it is. And what it is, is actually the great perfection. Yeah, beautiful. And Ant says, seemingly side by side with existence, the mind and the life essence without the concept of parallel, it is all just the one. Yay. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. And. Thanks, Kat. Thanks, everyone.

One essence signing off. Lots of love. We're going to be here in a couple of days. . Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.