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Yeah, there we are. And you can actually say hi to the guys on Zoom. Here we have John and David. If someone else joins and we have, yeah, we have Dino, Michael. Yes. And off we go. I hope you're going to hear us well. And if not, you guys, they're saying good morning. If not, just intersect, unmute yourself if you want to interrupt at any point or ask question or contribute something. Just as usual, everyone's free to do this like a joint exploration. It's not really a teaching as Bob often starts the whole meetings. There is nothing to learn here. There is nothing that anyone can ever teach you because this is a teaching.
This is a basic recognition of that which is already and forever. If it was something that was about to start tomorrow or next week or next lifetime, that wouldn't be worthy pursuing because it would be just another experience. So people have ideas about the grand state of enlightenment or ultimate liberation and all that stuff that happens after seven lifetimes. And maybe that's the seventh lifetime. You have nothing to do with it now. And in that happening, everything changes. Perception is different. You are completely debilitated from all the human emotions which society labels as negative. So you can experience pleasure, but no pain. This is impossible.
This is not how it works. The great perfection, the non-conceptual awareness, the natural state, the state providing all natural world. is already, you are already in the natural state. You are already present, aware of the presence. You are fully alive. You are conscious. And that's really not a small thing. That's a miracle. That's something that no thing that is absolutely exquisite and beautiful in itself. And it is sought for. People spend decades meditating, doing all sorts of practices to shut down the mind, to stop the thinking, to experience it. And the truth is you cannot not experience it. It is the experiencing itself. Without that baseline of presence awareness, no thought can be experienced.
No mental projection, image of the past or future can ever exist without that awareness of existence, without that aliveness. So this already here, it is not an experience to be attached to. It is to be attained or achieved tomorrow or next lifetime or in the middle or during the talk. It is to be recognized. It is always about recognizing what is already present. And you want to interrupt me too and elaborate on the last question, please. But I don't experience it. Okay. Are you sure? No. Yeah. This is. No, this is really good point. This is very often a question. You know, I don't experience being the open field of awareness.
I experience being contracted, being little, being small, being an entity, being separate, most of all being separate. So is that really what you experience? Or is it that the sense of aloneness or sense of separation or sense of being localized or sense of being contracted? Arises in the consciousness. And the truth is, and let's be honest, it is not always there. When you sleep, it is not there. And then when you wake up fresh in the morning, it's not immediately there. It comes with the thinking. It comes with the projector kicking in online and start telling you that you were a person. You are limited.
You are contracted. You are in the body somewhere. With that belief system. the confirmation bias and the experience happens just the same way as every belief that is really taken on board to the point of fanaticism becomes the reality like a seven-year-old believes santa is reality or the tooth fairy they exist of course they have proof they have evidence truly believed to the point that is not questioned is real and any belief and this whole collective so-called reality is a is a believed into existence like hundred years ago dominating religion was christianity or or islam or or whatever the religion was today most dominating religion which is a collective reality that we all agree upon is physics maybe or medicine or or science at large but it is still a collective reality you go to another culture that does not subscribe to this particular belief system they have different experiences the experience of spontaneous healings or experiences of walking on water whatever it is it is the world is projected and it is projected on that baseline of presence awareness of pure consciousness and that is an experience already that is your own direct experience right now you can you cannot deny the fact of your own existence you are now a category of not of just bunch of Outlander non- kennen warmed um ינ you are me you i'm an corridor image of the body like if you don't have physical pain in the body anywhere you need a mental projection or imagination of the body to even realize that you have the body without it in the direct experience seeing is happening right here right here is that whole whole field of seeing happening the mind will come and says no no their eyes here and the mind will come and also says the light is falling on the retina it's reversed and it's interpreted and it is all those stories of the mind that in the natural world only humans tell themselves other creatures they are just one with life they of course you know for the navigational purposes the instrument that they are carrying you know like if you've seen the documentary nature documentaries sometimes they show how they film it so the guys are having this huge big lenses cameras so as they walk they walk carefully because the lenses is part of their body this is part of of of the vehicle through which the world is being seen but they're not the lenses they're not the eyes either that is the vehicle through which the world is experienced that field of presence has this particular vehicle and this and this and this and every single form is a vehicle for experiencing for that consciousness that is underlying it but back to the direct experience we don't assume that anything or anyone has the same sense of presence but we know the sense of presence that is here and it's a sense it's not even it's not even a sense in the sensory meaning it's not the sense in a way that it has like the temperature or size or shape or color or of texture or any of it it's not sensory it's not a perception it's not but you can't deny it there is a sense of existence there is an existence there is a presence and in that presence there is arising seeing the capacity for seeing arises in the beingness now can you separate the capacity for for seeing from that field of beingness from that i am the sense of i am in that sense of existence here the capacity shows up now can you actually separate sense of presence in this capacity of seeing arising can you actually separate particular items or maybe your own vessel your own lenses from that capacity it makes no sense if you delete the the seer the capacity is gone and if you delete everything that is seen you don't call it seeing anymore it's actually inseparable it's totally singular and the same of every aspect of experiencing the being in that awareness of existence those capacities for seeing hearing tasting touching smelling imagining or you can call it thinking but it really is creating mental projections mental images can they actually be separated from the capacity for thinking which is called consciousness if you delete the thinker so-called thinker capacity is gone if you delete the thoughts the mental projection the past the future other locations other places other people that which is not happening right here right now the thinking is the capacity makes no sense there is none so the inseparable is just one singular happening within that happening of awareness there is a happening translated as if that whole life essence put through that body mind machine the pure potentiality the pure existence shows up of seeing hearing tasting touching smelling this is like a converter it converts the this infinite voltage of the potentiality into a limited channel of seeing and its content hearing and its content and in this way that infinite presence that omnipresence omnipotence omniscience glimpses its own omnipotence and omnipresence and omniscience it sees the reflection of itself through that through those capacities of seeing hearing tasting touching smelling singular capacities which no one can deny and even if there is vehicles that are lacking some of the capacities.
Bob was 40% of hearing was gone, so he needed amplifiers. My grandmother, she had 60% of hearing loss throughout her life last five years, completely 100% gone. That capacity is absent, but other capacities are still present. If you think of birds that can use a sonar, or like bats, or dolphins, their capacities that this human pattern doesn't have, though he has it. He's a weirdo. There are people who have developed special capacities through focus of attention, capacities to whatever, healing, do the healing, or in other cultures, those are taken for granted as part of a collective dream. But the so-called city powers, that people say, oh, if you are enlightened, you have to have some special power, otherwise we can't trust in your enlightenment.
And then the enlightened people say, well, don't chase the city powers, because you're going to get trapped in the superiority issue again. You're going to get into grandiosity. I'm bigger and better. I can do what you can't do. And everyone has unique capacity. Every vehicle for experiencing has a slightly different perception, a different angle of seeing, different conditioning, different preferences, different tastes. Collectively, it is all one experiencing through many, many channels, just like one processor, and thousand little cameras around the whole city, bringing up the data. And then the model of that city is being processed simultaneously. So this one capacity, godliness, the God, the omnipresence, is having a glimpse of itself through infinite amount of channels.
But that is secondary. Primary is this one. What do you know directly? You can get glimpses of other people's life through neuron mirrors, compassion, and things like that. And that's super satisfying to get yourself out of that byproduct of large-length. And I think that the way that you're dealing with that is very much similar to what you're dealing with with a model of this particular machine, which is selfishness, which is self preservation, a run riot. Because self preservation of that cat sitting next to Charlie is running perfectly fine. She's made it. She's nearly 10 years old. And she's absolutely one with life, moving away from danger towards pleasure, just like everyone else.
But in humans, The same self-preservation is on steroids because it's constantly narrated. Oh, this person doesn't like me. Those think ill of me. Those are going to hurt me. And what if the government will pack up? Or what if the tax office will whatever? Thousand little issues because of that narrating habit and all related to me. And suddenly the whole dream become nightmare. Nightmare of absolute self-centeredness, self-obsession and self-will run riot crazy. My story, my children, my house, my car, my problems, my health, my relationship with money. And that becomes overwhelming. And then the mental health issues spike to rocket. And the substances that try to calm the mind.
The mind is not a problem. Feeding the mind. That incredible machine, that incredible processor with too much fuel and giving it too much processing power. Naturally, it grows like monster. It's a hybrid. It mutates to the point of being a torturer, being a master instead of being a servant. And a simple trick in any and every situation is to watch the mind. To see how it functions. To be curious about that incredible instrument. To see it as one of the capacities, one of the ways that infinite power, that potentiality expresses itself. And you're going to have free entertainment for life. It's absolutely incredible. It's amazing.
Every mind is at times very quiet and at times completely dysregulated and crazy. That's its nature. And it is constantly in flux, responding to the environment. Environment may be just like it is for the cats, the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Or it may be like for humans, mental turmoil and obsession. What others think of me? What's going to happen tomorrow? What's going to happen in five years? Nonetheless, the response is constant. It responds to the stimuli. Now if the stimuli is the internal turmoil. turmoil mental illness that also can be seen for what it is if you withdraw the attention from relaxed enough attention from that machine running to the point in which ah i didn't think that thought wow look at this obsession running right now wow look at this worry amazing but then and i had that conversation couple of days ago someone who was going through a really really traumatic event and the most traumatic for for healthy mentally healthy people will be to unwillingly hurt someone else perhaps because of the outburst of anger or some some dysregulated uh behavior that deep in the heart he feels yes this was all so wrong i did i don't want to be that i don't want to be like this anymore hate myself.
And he's in absolute trauma. And I say, wow, wow, this is so beautiful. He says, what? Isn't it beautiful to experience that profound sense of pain and guilt that you hurt someone? Shit, that's brilliant. That's so healthy. That is so clear expression of loving care. Can't you see that? Well, if you put it this way, can you actually celebrate that so-called negative emotion as a profound expression of loving care? You don't ever want to hurt someone. You don't ever want to cause pain. The woman he dealt with burst in tears and oh God, that's like stabbing the heart. Wonderful. Seeing every expression, every emotion in its right place.
This is the self-organizing universe. If it exhibits that particular reaction, it is the consequence of every other interaction in the whole universe, the programming of the machine, the environment, whatever that machine has calculated as the best response, it always does its best. Always. If the programming is faulty, of course, that's bad. It's not the best. Maybe becoming a pedophile. That's, well, it happens too. It does. But again, there is an innocence because no one chose that programming. Again, it's the universe, it's the reality. If you were born in a different world, in a different family, you had different experiences. Those programs would be different because they are responses to the environment.
They are survival strategies. So, seeing the mind in a way that you are actually watching this incredible processor at work and you're marveling at its work without judging it, without, oh yeah, but I hate myself. Hey, hey, hey, who are you? Are you that consciousness? Are you that witnessing presence looking at what is arising? Fear is arising. What an obvious sign of love. Not wanting to be hurt, not wanting to die, not wanting to be, wow, how tender. Or anger is arising. Rebelling against injustice, valuing some beautiful expression of equality or something like that. Wow, how tender. Looking at it without judging it, without pushing it away, wrestling with it.
Whatever arises in the awareness, this is the life showing itself to itself. Giving itself a gift. Look at this. Look. It doesn't say what's your opinion on it. Mind will answer what's its opinion on it. I like it, I don't like it, push it away. Good luck. It's too late, it's already here. Arguing with what's already appearing is pointless. But seeing the resistance of the mind as part of the landscape, wow, how beautiful. That man resisting the fact that he unwillingly, of course, I don't know that many people, I don't know how about you, who actually willingly enjoy causing harm. Even that is probably a strategy to feel empowered.
If you were broken all your life and then suddenly you feel empowered by it. I don't think there is just this complete mindless cruelty in any creature. But anyway, that's irrelevant because that's thinking again. But anyway, whatever shows up on the screen, if it shows up with the judgment in it, with the resistance to it in it, that's also what's showing up. Every scene presently arising is the universe blinking, winking at itself. Look, this now. It's never going to be the same again. It's never going to show up in the same shape and form. It's only now the time to see it, to appreciate it, to connect with it, and to realize that if the thought says I, it doesn't mean you are the thought.
You are prior to that thought which says I. You are seeing the thought arising. You are seeing it fading away. You are the witnessing of the arising. Isn't it so? If there are any objections, please. Any objections? Yes. No objections, but, you know, like in that arising, anything can appear. And the thought that I'm this and that and the other, or that, you know, that I can walk on water or something, you know, they're all equally, they're all just the same appearance. They're all just appearance of packets of little energy, called thoughts. So can one be more valid or one more important, one more true and more real and more correct than the other?
They're all just appearances, equal appearances. You can't look at a tree and say this tree is better than that tree. They're just appearances. And same with thoughts. And I guess, you know, the real problem is in some of those thoughts, there's an embedded sort of sense of, a me, you know, like any stream of thoughts has a little story. And in that story is embedded a me. It's my story. Or it's her story related to me. Or it's, you know, so everything seems to have this embedded me, myself and I aspect to this woven into the content of the thoughts themselves. And they're equally unreal.
Or equally real. Or equally appearing as that. What's your experience? What did she say? I never listened to her. What can I say? Take a mic. It's a good question. I hear it. And Guy's on Zoom too. I was interested. I was interested to hear what Dean has to say with regards to what Kat said about the dynamics of human experience, whether you want to cause somebody suffering or whether you are compassionate. I'll just reduce it to that. Yeah. I'm asking you, what has your been experiencing? Yeah. There's really nothing I can say. No, no, no, no. In the sense of like a judgment or an opinion or a right or a wrong.
I'm just asking for. Something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, like, like there's, there's, there's in the appearance, right. In, in the appearance. I'm getting dizzy, man. In the flow. Forget the appearance. In, in the flow. Yeah. The flow is appearing. Yeah. Well, it is, but anyway, I was interested. That's okay. Yeah. Anybody else got anything to add? No. Yeah. Yes. Joe. I thought you might. That's why. Who is that? Robert. Not a good look. And I don't know if it relates to what you were trying to ask Charlie. Cause I know what I'm. Sorry. Maybe you should have. You should have. No, I've experienced both.
Being hurt. Killed people. Being hurt. And very compassionate. And felt guilty about it. Wonderful. And you witnessed all of those experiences because you can speak about it. Absolutely. Solid. Yeah. You know, you've got it all. Totally. That's it. Take it. You're right. I've got it. No, you talk. Oh, all right. It was just what you said then. And I, I like what Dean said too. Nobody means to hurt another person. Yeah, no, no one. So, cause I do it all the time. Well, I can honestly say if I wanted to. It exists. up here it's not packed it out okay so you're going to do or if you're short or abrupt with somebody then yes i felt what kata described earlier no question did you want to kill someone job run over with your bus everything charlie just said i've done all that and i've done it this week i snapped at a client and it was beautiful when i when i snapped you're a knight sorry you're a knight aren't you yeah okay you've already picked that up but um i snapped at a client and which was totally inappropriate and but the beauty of all of it was you know within a few seconds i let it go i made my apology who hurt who who was hurt did i feel guilty yeah i kept apologizing for the next two or three days do you know and i noticed it and was aware of it and did i mean to and for me i know now that snap was because i went into fear i had a story of something so you know i had to blame somebody else and then i was able to say to her you know it wasn't your fault it's actually my fault it's actually i and when i own it i can fix it if it's somebody else i can't fix it but i understand the guilt and for me i was always taught that the guilt is just beautiful that the conscience or subconscious just wants to say maybe i could have done that better you know what i mean I love the process.
I think we hurt constantly. Constantly either we hurt somebody or they hurt us. But it's only in the story. Yes, only in the story. It's not reality. But I was listening to what you were saying because you and I had a little chat earlier and I realise now I forgot and I got caught in my story. Just like the fish gets caught on the hook and it's wiggling and it's trying to get out of it but it's like, but I'm caught on the hook, I can't. Oh, if I just open my mouth, the hook will come out. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I forgot I got hooked.
I believe the story. It's only when we do this chatting that I wake up. It's a message. That's not answering your question. No, it is because you're talking about your experience. That's my experience. That's why I'm asking. Yeah. I get hurt all the time and I hurt other people in a way that I have got experience with. We're all very sensitive, aren't we? The people that we think we are. There you go. There you go. I think we are. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. If we are well socialized, we will have those sensitive neuromirons. We will not only feel our own vulnerabilities and insecurities but we will also pick it up from other people and we will be sensitive to other people's sensitivities.
This is the beauty of this particular vessel of experiencing and it is to be celebrated. I had a couple of weeks. I had the event that was absolutely traumatizing and I would burst in tears multiple times during the day and this was so tender and it was so beautiful. The pain, the heartache that was appearing was totally celebrated as the vulnerability of that human form, but there was no resistance whatsoever. There was no psychological suffering whatsoever. If there is a. Pain and there is a complete full body yes to that pain and it's a curiosity about that pain and it's an acknowledgement of beauty and tenderness and love in that pain.
Can you still call it pain? Is that word even appropriate? So it doesn't. When I spoke with that man couple of days ago, he says, so you don't experience any of it? And I've shared with him the whole story. And he says, wow, wow. And I say again, feeling your feelings fully, allowing them, experiencing them for what they are without the taking credit, taking ownership regarding yourself as a little person suffering from that feeling, or even more being it itself. You are the presence, if not for the life force, none of those feelings. This would be possible. The sadness arises. Wow. The now the joy arises.
Wow. It's like the sky. The seasons are changing. The weather is changing. Every single season has its beauty. Every weather has its beauty and power. And being able to just stop from that relaxed space, like presence, appreciate the arising without. Resist. Resisting it without pushing it away. And even if there is this thing of pushing away happens again, that's part of the landscape. There is always that spaciousness underneath that does absolutely nothing objects to nothing. And it allows the appearance to be just as it is unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Nothing needs fixing in this way. There is also, you know, like Joe, you were saying, or, uh, another conversation that sometimes the conversations happen.
You don't even know how they happen, but there is an attitude. Do you know your next thought? Charlie? You don't know. I'm done. I mean, there's yes, absolutely. Everything flows just like the weather life flows. It expresses through. I don't know whether I'm going to look to the left or to the right next minute. I don't know. It is the 10,000 things cooperating together that will make that ice move here or there. I don't know. It's all one huge discovery is being childlike, curious and woo. Let me see. Like Bob would say, look what is around the corner, how things will resolve. And that's why this is this.
That can't be a teaching in this. There's nothing to learn. Everyone already knows that it's just the sharing of the experience, which may or may not inspire. To let look at your own experience. That's what it, that's what it only can be. You know, it's not like I'm speaking with someone and I presume that someone is broken. I have to fix them because I'm healthy and they are broken. And all I am with the teacher, their students, ah, yuck, that's separation. The inspiring sharing something that is profound, beautiful, very, very simple, very obvious, and always here. And it is joy to actually bring it up.
Bring it. For the background, which is usually overlooked and taken for granted. Shine the light, right? See, if you were unconscious, if you were in coma, you couldn't have any problem at all. Yes, please. We can arrange it. Like what you're saying. Like, yeah. The, the. The actual presence, the actual aliveness, the fact of existence itself, like is, is the most fundamental, like underlying thing in which everything is occurring. So that, so then when, you know, you look at something, whether someone's inflicted, you know, something malicious on purpose or, or, or not, like it's, it's still occurring within that presence and, and you actually don't know how the dream or how this, how the appearance is actually working.
No one knows exactly what's going on. What's going on. But, but you know that you are, and you know that this is, and you know that all these different appearances are appearing in, in a myriad of ways. And they're unexplainable, unfathomable, unknowable. They're labeled and described. And, and yet, and, and put descriptions are put on them and understandings and cause and effect and meaning. And yet they, all those things are appearing in that immediate nowness. So in those descriptions, there's, there's. There's an appearance strung together words, which, which create like time, which create a continuity, like, oh, there was a beginning. Then this happened. Then, then, then this is, and then this has happened.
And then this might happen. All of that is like a string of things, all appearing in absolute immediacy. And in that, you know, there's meanings put to that as well. So that story of before and during and after has also good and bad. And, and, and relation to me and other. And all of a sudden in, in, in all this, in this immediate nowness of existence itself. If, if, if all that kind of those, those stories are believed in, or the attention is fixated on those, on those meanings, all of a sudden they become real. They become solid. They're, they're, they're our truth. They're our reality.
And yet, so what is it? There's no solution. There's no solution. The only solution is, is basking in, in that sense of aliveness in which they all occur. And then, you know, like everything's actually resolved. There is no question. The question, the answer are all part of the same appearance, like you said before the seeing and, and the object, you know, see there's no, the seeer and the seeing and that which has been seen are all one movement in that appearance. Okay. I think, do you want to take that question? So, do we put the judgment on our feelings, on whatever's going on or whatever the story, we put it, we put them in the label of the judgment.
Yeah. Of what that story is or what it looks like or, you know. My, it's a cheesy poem. And what is that label? In the middle and the end. Yes. It's labeled. Yes, and, but what, what is it? That, that label is also part of the whole. Oh, yeah, could point. Scenery as well. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay, that's good. Yeah. So, don't judge the judgment. No, it's sort of. Yeah. Just don't forget to laugh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look at this whole thing rolling out, thought chasing thought. Judgment on top of judgment. Don't forget to laugh. Beautiful. It's like, you know, the thought I think can't actually think.
Mm-hmm . And, and, and every thought is describing, what it's actually describing is another thought. Mm-hmm . So, so, wow. So, a judgment is describing, an idea of a judgment is describing a judgment. Mm-hmm . And then we can judge that. Mm-hmm . And, but yet, they're all, there's not a higher and a lower. They're all just that, that, that, that continual flow of, of endless possibilities and, and, and endless, and endless thought. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it might be answering a little bit of what Carly's saying, but what have you done when you've had feelings? That's hilarious. Yeah.
Yeah. Yes, it's good. Thank you. Feeling, feeling, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Feelings are, like, there's constant feelings coming and going. Yeah. Like, absolutely constant feelings. Mm-hmm . And, and sometimes there's a movement to, like, what is that, you know? Mm-hmm . But usually it's, it's like, wow. Like, because there's, there's like a sense of knowing that this is it. This, this is aliveness and it's an absolute, like, and in a flash it's gonna finish. Mm-hmm . So, if that aliveness is, is baking in that feeling. It's like amazing. Like, phew. No matter how ugly and, and how devastating and how whatever it is.
It's, it's like, wow, there's an opportunity to, to have a human experience in this very moment that's ugly, deep, strong, weak, um, boring, mundane, like, beautiful, magical, creative, um, all of, all of that. So, it sort of doesn't, yeah. Perfect, Dean. Yeah. That's, that's what I was asking. Mm-hmm . That's what, because I had that just morning. Mm-hmm . Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was morning. I had that in the car. I was bawling my eyes out, and I, and I want to cry when I say that. I don't mean to.
I, I can't, I haven't cried in ages, ages. I just can't let it out. But it's coming now, and I don't know why. And I can put a label on it. Enjoy it. We could name it, and I do try to do that in the car. Mm-hmm . I was like, yeah, okay, this is yummy. But sometimes you want to change it, you want to change it, fix it, re-arrange it, you want it to be different. Enjoyed that too. I was watching all of that. Yeah. it just accept it or just allow it or yeah it wants to be happy like it was yesterday why does it have to be this and i now i'm labeling it's not happiness well crying can be happiness too in a sense to release i don't know and look and wanting to be constantly in a state of pleasure and if there is displeasure or discomfort not wanting that discomfort how normal how natural how loving is that even desire for having constant ecstasy of course but seeing that desire for what it is just another channel another movie another advertisement another sales speech of the mind engaging inviting go for a ride with me i'll take you for that train of thought fantasy or maybe we're going to manifest it or maybe we're going to see that it's already so and that will be the manifestation any channel constantly this and this multiverse of entertainment inviting you for a little ride come on this is you know this nothingness the presence the aliveness forget it there's no job for the mind but then these machines we don't remember to do that we don't we get caught in it we get caught in the emotions and ride it through what is that we the presence the the witnessing capacity that gets caught up you know the processing power the aliveness what gets caught up because the mind is on you know like the tv at home is on and your husband flipping the channels and giving you shits for having so many different channels watched like the same more or less so the mind is doing the same thing now you can see it doing the thing you can relax enough to see oh yeah okay so what what what was i thinking about for the whole morning in the car that person then later on this one and that then then wow how many channels constantly flipping in between you know that crazy rat race of thought chasing thought but hey there is something that knows about it all but it doesn't get enough attention to actually even experience its own existence its own relaxed presence or appreciation for seeing it so how do you release more power more processing more attention more aliveness from this tv to be able to see that it is a tv step back move away you know if you sit with your nose next to the tv there's not really that easy but you step back a little bit ah there is actually this present moment there is hearing happening presently apart from the tv running here oh there is a body here ah oh it cracks wow apart from the tv running and now as you are grounded relaxed oh it's just a tv okay so now instead of being completely completely immersed and swayed and drowned in that story you see that this is just a story arising and the relaxed attention if it's enough of that it doesn't even waste itself for resisting that story anymore it just says wow it says nothing it's space it doesn't speak but it just uh-huh okay and this is and this is very very freeing because it it happens regardless of whether story is pleasant or painful that's what the freedom is regardless whether it's a war or peace whether you're young or old whether you reach or poor whether you get your will or your goal or you don't doesn't matter what is arising in the dream that freedom to just huh okay that's how it unfolds oh and now that and it's always the now and it's always that unique moment and its content seeing hearing tasting touching and imagining you know no one can do that like the moving back no no one can do the the relaxed attention but somehow like like these conversations this group this non-duality maybe even not this that's not limited to such such a rule either it's not because it's not confined to anything and yet like so it's like there's this energy of all one field and it's like within that field it recognizing itself as that field through the different the different expressions of people um so-called people you know and um yeah the the message and the understanding and the landing of that message is quite a outstanding thing that that's sort of it's it's a remarkable thing because there's one one unified field um and everything is appearing in it so your understanding or you moving back or you doing it it's like it's not it's not what you think it is it's not a you and a me it's that one field doing some mysterious magical god trick what we're talking about then is anger sadness loneliness fear labels role power range of humans yeah okay that's what stimulated my book got it yeah i like that yes but you know what let's let's include the animal experience too you know because it is just a range of the sentient experiences the difference between the sentient experience of the sentient creatures and the human creatures is that we have additional capacity of making it to a story while they don't you know you step on a cat's tail and run and that's it and then maybe next time it will be a little bit cautious around your feet and you give it a treat and it will pair and it's still the same range you can still distinguish between joy and pleasure and pain and all that but humans will because this is much much bigger language model symbolic language it has learning capacity it learns from each experience it is the much more sophisticated navigational system that straight away habitually calculates the conclusion oh okay that person steps on my tail so now we humans will make a story or maybe he hates cats or maybe well obviously it's a joke cat sitting next to you and you don't seem to hate it or step on it but it's just a joke yeah Just an example.
Shut up. I'm going to. I'm going to just include we have we have Jyoti here and we have good morning messages from our zoomers and we have Anand joining us also. And Jyoti says good morning. And what about politicians who are trying to benefit themselves and their cronies at the expense of the rest of the country or greed of some to benefit themselves at the cost of the climate catastrophes? Yeah, beautiful, beautiful question. Should be a beautiful question. You said it. Yeah. Should that may happen to you know, they were many politicians throughout the history shot. That's yeah, that happens to the thing is, it's a self organizing universe and the general principle of self gratification.
If you believe you are a separate person, you will want to gratify that separate person. If you believe what your mind is telling you that this is this is who you are and this is what it is to survive. Well, you know, inevitably you're going to be gratifying this. If you believe you are the whole nation. Well, then you may find the ethical politicians who will benefit the whole nation, perhaps on the expense of other nations. So now if you believe you are the humanity, maybe you will benefit the whole humanity, perhaps on the expense of other species. See what the identity does. How about questioning any need for holding the identity?
How about I am? That I know. Yeah. What I am, who I am. It gives a shit. There is an existence. If there is no imagined entity there who needs the identity. I'm a person. I'm a woman. I'm Australian. I'm Polish. Or I am a part of a female, like four billions of females. And now I'm against men. Or if I'm part of whatever identity always creates the separation. I know that I am. But what I am, I have no idea. If I'm part of. If I'm not human, I won't be siding with humans against other species. If I'm not a woman, I won't be siding with other women against men.
If I'm not. If I'm nothing, what can I be against? I can be against everything. If I'm everything, what can I be against? The thing is, without having any specific need for identifying as an object, I can be. I am. I am the presence. The witnessing presence in which whatever arises is the reflection of that same presence. It arises within me. I am the consciousness. The world is part of me. It's inseparable. Why would I want any harm to any element of my world? But if I believe I'm this body, okay. So now I'm going to be guarding this body. And guess what? Animals don't believe that there are these bodies.
And they still get clean. They still feed themselves. The instincts are still running. So that belief that I'm this body really, from the survival perspective, has marginal benefit. But from the whole world's perspective, if you actually see what that capacity to identify, what the upper hand, the human species, has, the human species got because of that, the capacity to identify as human, the capacity to identify as a nation or as a person, and suddenly being able to join with everyone sharing the same story and build a civilization, create the science, the medicine, wow. No animals can do that because they don't have any need to identify and share the story.
They still join in the tribes, some of them, depends what the characteristics of particular species. But they don't share the story. As far as we can tell, the processor doesn't have enough processing power. Yeah, go for it. Just in terms of like, bring it back to the basics, how it's just stuff arising. And there's a range in animals too. Like apparently there was a chimp or gorilla who, you know, made friends with some actor who died. I'm just saying some actor, I know who he is, but I've forgotten his name. And, you know, it had learned so many words and it had met the guy a couple of times.
And when it was told that he had died, it cried. So like basically, it, what's been observed here is just like a little notions coming up. And if it's spotted early enough, it's just like visually comes up as a little nub. And then it might get worded out or it might not if it gets caught in time. You know, it's not even catching or anything, but either the nub of notion arises and worded out sentences or half a sentence of the process stops halfway through. So these are just, this is just stuff arising. And there's the complexity from babies and animals and more advanced animals, you know, more sort of trained animals and more.
Yeah, there's the degree to which nubs and sentences arise. It's still a range and it's still just stuff arising. And so complexity of calling it mind or doing all that is still just another wee thing arising. Yeah, so there's no mind, no, none of that stuff happening. It's just little nubs and words, basically. And it's really not more complex than that. Yeah. Hi, I've just been traveling solo in Eastern Europe for the last six weeks. And not really talking to that many people. As an older person, you're often sort of a bit invisible. And it's been quite sort of freeing and pleasant in a way.
I thought maybe I'll get a bit lonely, but that didn't really happen. It was quite easy really just to be in that sense of being presence and passing through. And there was a kind of freedom that sort of comes with that. And part of that, I think, is about not relating to other people. And that relating to other people means that you're not getting constantly defined by other people. I just want to explore that sort of area a little bit, because it just seems that, you know, going back to this obvious little Johnny. So from this high, you know, we're told we're this person. But, you know, it's really through growing up and through life and through relationships with other people that we become defined as this sort of separate kind of individual.
And the power of that is so great that coming back now into Australia and relationships and people I know, whatever, are being defined as this kind of person. Just interested to explore sort of navigating that, how to keep that kind of broader, open kind of sense of presence. When the whole of society sort of is conspiring to force you into being this kind of individual. I'm Tony. You know, I'm 16. I'm 28 years old. I live in Mullumbim. But, you know, all those kind of ideas that come in that kind of define you and feel the tightness around that. Again, how to keep that kind of openness and that sense of freedom.
I'm just interested on that. Yeah, how beautifully put. I have something to say. Please. Please. Not that you define me as a bad thing in any way. I mean, that's fine. But I do question that you think you're being defined. Well, it's a self-imposed kind of defining, I think. It's a reflecting back, isn't it? So other people reflect back to you something that you think you are or have expected. I don't know. The whole thing just melds together in a way that kind of creates a thing. But nevertheless, the assumption that you think you're being defined. I would like to challenge that. I mean, in terms of just maybe you are sometimes.
Maybe not as well. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. See? Yeah. Look at that. Because, you know, on one hand, even if there is a persistent belief or even if there is a conviction. Oh, yes. I'm joining us here. Even if there is a conviction, that's what people are projecting on me. I know it for certain. That's a belief. But even with that belief. You can actually step back and see how Tony is going to respond and play along or rebel or whatever is Tony going to do in that particular setting that he believes that other people define him. Is he going to play along or is he going to just put the foot down?
I wonder. Yes, it plays with it. Yeah. Just be curious of, you know, of how this conceptual image of society. Putting you in your role. Because you're right. And this is easily observable. That's why people love going away, going for vacation. What happens then? Everything is new. You don't go on autopilot. Your mind doesn't have a processing power to roam over the same things. Because everything is new. And it needs to be vigilant. It needs to be more present. You have to watch your step. You don't know you're discovering. You're in that discoverer mode. Curious about what's around the corner. And you're forced to do that because nothing is familiar.
Now you go back home. Everything is familiar. So the mind doesn't need to keep guard. Doesn't need to discover anymore. So it starts showing, yes, everybody is thinking of me. Everybody is defining me. They probably don't even notice you that much really. Because they're so preoccupied with their own self-obsession. That's the sad truth for the majority of the society. They all live in their own heads about their own problems. Their own stories. They don't even think of you. But even if you believe they do, what is that Tony character? What is that actor, that role going to do? Is it going to rebel? Is it going to play along?
Is it going to play along at 10.30 today and 10.45 is going to rebel? Or anything in between? Wow, let me see. Now the curiosity is engaged again. Now you're not discovering a new country. You're discovering your own response to the situation within your own dream that you projected and defined. But what Cheryl was saying was the next level game, even more brilliant. Are you sure? How do you know what they think? Did you ever ask? Maybe if you ask, that will be the first time when they ever think of it. It's quite amazing, like, you know, the concept or the idea of, like, I have a concept of you.
You have a concept of me. And I have a concept of me. Which concept is true? You know, and imagine, like, a world with so many of the population. Imagine each perspective or each concept. Which one is the right one? How can it be constructed? And in the end, like, you know, you go to a doctor and there's a doctor and there's a you. And you have, and he asks you, you know, what are your symptoms? Or these are the results. These are the results of your test. And, yes, I've got an ache here and I've got this here. But that's the way the appearance is playing out.
Like, you're not that symptom. And that doctor is not defined. Everyone's doing, everyone's playing their role. But there's no fixed, there's no solid truth to any of it. There's no absolutely defining. Like, I am that in which the consultation is occurring. And it doesn't matter if the fact is true. It's just the focus or the focal point or the attention is fixated on this or that or it moves in or moves out. Because it's, there's no, it's indefinable. Undefinable. Indefinable? Yeah, I always find that when I went on holiday, I just felt a lot lighter. But I think it's because, like, you know, I had my money.
So that was like a, you know, back home, you need to get money. So that's a trigger and, you know, a triggerable pattern. A triggerable block that causes bother. You know, all the triggers happen. But if you're on holiday, you've got the set money. You don't have to think about that. You know, you just cruise along. And also because I also felt lighter. Like, I had my favorite clothes. I only had to wear my favorite clothes. And also I didn't notice temperature as much. So, you know, I went from like Cuba and early December where the men are just putting on shirts and women are just putting on cardis to Cologne, like, where it's flipping freezing.
But I wasn't feeling it. I wasn't feeling the changes. I wasn't bothered, you know. So the botherment triggers weren't triggering, you know. The patterns weren't being triggered. The bother wasn't. The discomfort wasn't happening. Yeah, it's just because the particular triggers here are probably more about judgment, you know, in the community. And, yeah, it was just freedom also created other physical freedoms and different freedoms, you know. Yeah. I just I've been sort of thinking about not thinking I've been pondering or whatever on the fact that people have ideas about you constantly, one person to the next person to the next. They've all got these layers of these TV screens in front of you of who they think you are.
Yeah. And, you know, none of them, they're all different. So they can't be correct. They can't be correct because every single. And they're changing too. And they're changing. And it's just constant. It's just constant. And it's sometimes really I just I sort of feel like I want to bow out and kind of just just not be around people because of it. But but also then the curiosity. It can be just really interesting as well. Like, you know, you are and then someone's kind of acting out something with you and you go, oh, this is this is weird, you know. OK. Right. You you do that.
But, you know, I'm not going to play into that or whatever. But it's it is constant. One person to the next to the next. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Take the mic, Charlie. I'm talking about money because money tends to be the currency of definition, maybe definition. Here it's more like. Take the mic. Because I'm more like, you know, like five on the Enneagram, you know, survival mode. It's more about. It just creates simplicity. When you're interacting with other people, it avoids people. Money avoids people here because I'm not very socially oriented or very I'm just very one on one oriented. So when I'm out and about, I'm not really bothered too much about what other people might be thinking about me at all.
I don't know those people. They're not going to impact my income and my survival. So I think it just really depends what your triggers are as to. And then as the triggers as as the uncomfortable stuff gets sat with internally and then dissipates and disappears. And then when a scam happens. There's nothing there in a particular area where there was a bunch of reactions. Then sometimes just the whole. I think Mike does this in his work. Like, what's it like when that is no longer there? One thing that was there like he goes off to the future. What's it like when that future self doesn't have that?
It's not there anymore. That pattern, that set of reactions. And so even just little things that are leaving me every week, like, you know, when, you know, suddenly just pops up. Yeah. Like, especially in the shower. Like, you know, just wow. There's all that angst about living in this house. What was that about? You know, suddenly feeling of just being at ease and nothing being in that, you know, space. It's like, oh, my God. And all those reactions and restrictions and all that. And the way it feels when they're not there. My God, you know, it's just like, what are we blessing to have? Even if that tastes last a couple of minutes and doesn't show up again for several months when that pattern really does dissipate.
You know, after it showing up by following the fear a few more times. Yeah. Because anger doesn't really, most of my life really hasn't shown up that much. Or discomfort and sadness used to. But then I got some orange congas and kind of that was my best effort to get rid of sadness. But it was like, I'm too calm. I love happy sadness. Yeah. I was just too into sadness. And there's just the notion came up that it's not healthy. And so basically fear was the one. But then when nothing was happening in my life, a year and a half, there'd be no, you know, I'd be like, oh, my God, I haven't felt fear for a year.
You know, but because it was just away from life, I was really not doing much, you know, like a hermit. And but fear is the most useful thing. Fear is what comes up and then gets followed. And then all these patterns dissipate. And it's really you suspect, oh, maybe it's going to be about finances or the health one must be coming up soon. But then something else comes in and sometimes it wipes out a third thing, you know, and you just don't know what's going to come. Of course, because it's just, you know, come, you know, this. And then you have the suspicions, but then, you know, it comes here, you know, it doesn't.
There's no, it just comes here, you know, there's no search master. Yeah. Yeah. I think we have a comment here from someone who's on Facebook. Martin. And oh, and John has the hand up. I'll just quickly get this one. I have just as many delusions. The fact that they run away from their bodies. Run away when their bodies are in danger. It's a simple proof. An example that animals have delusions. Babies also have delusions. The same. Same. They do have a sense of self to the fact that they don't get mirrors up to certain point. It's nothing big, nothing to do with their sense of self.
This is a stupidity myth that is utter garbage and easy to debunk. Yeah. Thank you, Martin, for your opinion. Of course, it's not yours. It's the processor. It's the mind constructing an opinion. You seem to be a little bit triggered. And it probably feels really empowering. Oh, yeah. You bunch of idiots. I'm much wiser. I know better. This is wrong. Maybe if you were in a better space, you may consider that we are talking about different things. Maybe the sense of existence and sense of self are different things. Maybe the sense of existence is inevitably everywhere. Sense of being, being present. The baby obviously is conscious, is present.
Animal is also pretty obviously conscious and present. Behavior of animal proved nothing. It's instinctual. Behavior of people also proved nothing. It's also instinctual. Sense of existence is not being questioned here. Sense of self, and you may consider doing your homework a little bit because as far as we know, there is this human brain that hallucinates self existing through time. That there is a person that is moving through time. And particular part of the brain is responsible for that sense. And if you experience a stroke or if there is an electric put to that part of the processor, that sense of self existing through time is basically switched off.
And as far as those type of experiments with the bio computer go, animals don't have that hallucinated sense of self existing in time and creation of the conceptual image about what that self is. So, but thank you for your opinion. Nonetheless, you are, anyone is allowed to have any responses and any reactions, and they actually beautiful to watch. You can actually really, it's just an invitation. And for anyone else, if there is anyone triggered by particular vocabulary, just to see how that arising trigger comes into the surface. I'm right. They're wrong. They're stupid. I can debunk all of it. Empowering feeling. Wow. Amazing. If you step back and see that you didn't even think about it.
You're not even thinking about it. You're just saying that you didn't even think that's thought. It just came up. It just arose or aroused, arisen, arosen. Arose. Thank you. Thank you. It's arose. There you go. Thank you. Yeah, it's, if my vocabulary triggers you, well, enjoy, enjoy watching the response. It is always yummy and juicy to actually see. And this is really a great invitation to anyone to watch the mind and see what's happening. What causes the attention that I've really attracted to something, the attention. That's a beautiful beginning point of the lifelong adventure of really being curious about that incredible processor. What feeling is it going to throw in response to what this is?
It's beautiful. And Sandy says, meant, they are my thoughts. Oh, I didn't. I didn't see something before. Sunday before and Martin says you're not idiots it's just those two things that are silly and too true just trying to sharpen you up oh thank you that's really kind of you Martin thank you very much I agree with the basic premise of what you talk about yeah thank you for for yeah we do like precision and we do like correction and definitely like I don't know I find you know a different thing actually if you really look I have no idea what has a sense of self whether baby does or animal does or all I can see is that like there's an appearance and it formulates as it was formulated as a sense of self and and then that now is is part of the whole appearance you so whether and something else has what what science says or what what other people say or I can't experience the sense of selfness I can't I have no actual proof of anything except for this except for this aliveness um and and and I don't know all these different discussions on the way this dream this is a dream and the way it actually works and that works and this works and I couldn't have no idea all I know is that this is you know this is the appearance this is the aliveness and these are all the different expressions um um expressing themselves in all these different the kaleidoscope of colors the infinite array of of you know rights and wrongs and Dynamics and Goods and Bads and highs and lows and um yeah and there's a there's a great um it's it's like the uh the movement towards resolving or finding or or searching or or or or or getting some solution or resolution or conclusion or um is is that's just another appearance um and and there isn't there isn't any conclusions or resolutions or in in any way there is just an absolute aliveness and and it's like a magic show um it's actually magical in another in another way of describing it too and yes and that was totally much much much more ultimate answer for for anyone I was just answering my uh Martin with the language that he was using but what Dean was saying is is much more accurate in the more general sense because somewhat yes oh no look there are levels levels so the level of the human experience the level of the language or the level of the of the processing machines and that is the ultimate level you're the ultimate level how good does that feel everyone is the ultimate level but again we can have the conversation and with meet people where they are in the conversation so when we are talking about the basic feelings as they arise that's a different sort of a language and a different conversation and when we go into the ultimate level yes that's true you don't know whether you are awake or whether you are sleeping and dreaming there could be a world in which you are like like when you are dreaming at night you see appearances trees animals are they sentient or not do they have brains or not do they have sense of self or not when you are dreaming in the moment of the of that experience it may be a persistent sense that yes this is real this is happening I'm really flying or they are really monsters chasing me and everything may prove in that dream to to be real and feel real but that's a dream and this dream the same what do we really know what do we really know for certain do we really know that they are in the animals well they appear I can touch them but so I can in the dream and then why I wake up and where are they can I touch them so this is yeah and thank you for bringing it up it's always good to just really get out of any sort of um language constrictions although um the beauty of the of that pointing that inspiring sort of a uh conversations is that we can meet anyone wherever they are if they want to meet there is really no one there it's only that one one essence meeting itself dancing with itself experiencing itself in the reflection of others so when when when we look at pointers we can say oh I agree with basic premises yes the baby was born or the consciousness was first and then consciousness created the brain grew within the womb and then the baby was born and then the baby got conditioned and then baby passed the mirror test and then the baby started throwing putting on more costumes more identities and then it ended up believing it is this Nationality this religion this culture but what about there is no time there's only this moment now where was the baby born was there a baby born the pointer has its validity and it can resonate and it can put the mind mind addressed but is it an ultimate pointer where is that baby where is my past where is yesterday does it even exist or is my childhood trauma real when I don't think about it or is it created right now or appearing not even created appearing right now all the 50 past years just right now when the thought arises loaded with that world of past experiences and then again those are different levels Bob hated the word levels but it is really different sort of quality of you know like speaking uh witness of reaction yes maybe yes yes yeah it's really just even that is whatever arises it's responses you know if the if the energy comes uh or the dream comes and look into that time bound sort of pointer of slow programming of the computer well that's what is reflected and if the if the next dream arises in which the whole computer is debunked anyone experience its own their own brain won't on anyone's brain where is it is it does it even exist in the direct experience in any other way than a thought and we have another and John sorry you you had your hand up before you probably it's probably lost maybe maybe you can yeah yeah did you want to respond to someone's comment on the phone or do you have a second no we want you I didn't want if okay you're you're you're gonna flow there I didn't want to okay you're you're you're gonna flow there I didn't want to� Hello there, I didn't want to...
Yeah, no, I mean, just kind of a continuation of that, and even off of what Martin was saying, or maybe I misunderstood anyways, but a lot of the understanding of there being no self is simply the fact that we, through a false assumption, create the idea of a self located at the center of awareness. I heard a metaphor recently of it's almost like you're squeezing your fist so tight, and you're doing it your whole life, that after a period of time, those sensations will convince you there's something in your hand. But upon letting that go and actually investigating, you'll see there was nothing there all along.
And that habitual connection, identification with sensation, with thought, just convinces us there's something that's continuing, marking moment to moment through time. And yeah, upon seeing it, we realize there's just this, this continuum of experience. It's all changing, and there's nothing that stays from moment to moment, but the awareness of it, but the fact that it's occurring. And I feel it's important to stress that, like stepping back in that way as well, to see that even when we have problems, to see them as something to be solved is from a limited perspective. Because at the end of the day, what's happening is there's thoughts, and they're already complete.
They don't need anything else. They're not limited in some way. So I'll find this when I'm, you know, say meditating or trying to work something through. Instead of solving that as a problem, or seeing it as a problem that needs to be solved, it's just seeing it as thoughts. There's thoughts arising. They're fine. You didn't, I didn't choose, I didn't have to deal with them in the first place, and I don't have to do anything with them. That's almost a level of real true acceptance when we allow them to be as they are without needing to change them into something else. And it comes back to the fact that, you know, everything is just what it is.
It's just the conceptual overlay, which makes us think we need to do something with it or change it in some way. So just the other day, I, you know, was noticing this with emotions arising. Like say you're really angry. Well, how do you know you're angry? You know, like what is it in your body that tells you that you're angry? And you'll come up with some, some say sensations, there'll be some heat, maybe all these things. But is that anger what you're calling anger? Is it angry? Right? No, it's completely angry. It's completely inert. It's just sensation arising. It in itself can't be angry. In the same way a thought can't think, a thought can't perceive.
It's just a little blip. It's an object. And when we see that, we recognize that we're in the process of this conceptual overlay on top of reality. The same way if we're upset at someone, you know, there's a projection. And that projection, we also project onto ourself. And we're constantly projecting onto the nature of reality. It's, it just is what it is. And it's completely fine. I don't know if I, it's interesting communicating these thoughts aloud because they're typically just in my head. But it's, I go back to that statement that Bob made so clearly that thoughts can't think. And I think that's a really important thing.
And I think that's a really important thing. That thoughts can't think. You know, thoughts don't know anything. We know them. Right? That is everything. It's everything. All of our perception, all of our cognition, none of it knows anything. It's known. Right? But there's still knowing clearly because we're aware. And that's you. That's me. That non-objective condition that there's awareness that can't be located anywhere. And I think that with using this as a framework, we realize that, you know, nothing is what it is. It's, there's no me. There's no you. There's no good or bad. It's just this, this unfolding. And that, you know, it seemed from that perspective, it's all just known.
And if there's any such thing as you, it's just the fact that it's known. But it really strips it bare of all meaning. Because meaning is just, is this part of this verbal construct. It doesn't mean anything. It just is. And that's the end of my rant. Yeah, that was, that was beautiful, John. And I just want to throw it in the air. So, you know, I had a couple of individual calls in which people were asking and hoping that you will take a challenge and give us a spiel one day. I threw it in the air before. But yeah, I think it would be lovely if you could just consider giving us the introductory spiel.
Because you are speaking with such clarity and so, so on the ball and so comprehensive and you articulate it really, really nicely. And people who were already hearing you speak in the past, that was the request. Oh, great. I'd love to sometime. Yeah, or just play that back for them. That's enough. They'll see it. They'll see it. I'm just joking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just, yeah. Thanks, guys. Thank you. And I'm just going to leave it. Anytime. Yeah, it sounds lovely. Wonderful. How about next weekend? Okay, let's do it. Fabulous. Thank you very much. That's fantastic. And I have just a couple of next comments. And we're going to wrap it up.
See it in this study already. And Martin says, yes, there are levels. For instance, dog that goes nuts barking at you is difficult to explain to it how ridiculousness what it is doing. So in that sense, it is far more deluded. Levels are better way to put it. And Jyoti says, that's great, John. Thank you. There you go. And Ellen says, this is great. Just what is needed in life. Been crying for weeks about floods at Isha praying. Hmm. Yes, I missed the first part. Tell him to keep talking. Yeah, there you go. So you hear John's, you hear John's already. And Martin says, it doesn't mean anything.
It just is very nice. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a beautiful way to wrap it up and end it. And thank you guys for hanging out with us. And thank you, Facebook people. And thank you for participating and contributing and everything.