This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
This one, oh, my speaker isn't working. Hello, hello.Now we'll be able to hear everyone. Hi all, this is Jenny and thank you for uploading interview. Yeah, it wasn't too bad, too much. Tanya coming in, Maria, still a couple of people joining.Hi, everyone. And as I mentioned last week, I think there's a couple more joining. I was requested to address the stuff on kind of more public settings, on the group settings. So a person who asked a question. Put a review, I think we need the link.Yeah, hopefully we're going to be more audible now. So I'm going to address that then. Was it this question? I have it in the email.
It's just fine with me. Okay, so we have one more person coming in.And the questions that I got, that I was requested to respond to, and in the satsang setting, that was some of the meetings, to address the idea of reality of power and powerlessness. What is true power? And what is only a pseudo power? Where does power reside? Does the concept only exist in relation to a false self? Is beingness powerful? Can the sense idea of powerlessness, which arises along with the sense of having no agency, everything happening by itself, be harnessed in any way to reduce psychological suffering? Or is there a sense of infinite power which arises when separation is seen through?So that's the questions.
Field of the infinite potential is the first angle through which we actually look at the idea of power. Is the infinite potentiality, the concept of the absolute God or omnipotence. Represents a unified field of infinite possibilities. That is the total power which Bob is referring to us. It vibrates into patterns, shapes and forms, sound waves and the visual world. It is the total power of awareness. Consciousness is this field, the emptiness, intelligence, energy or pure potentiality, whichever word resonates with you mostly, expressing itself through the body-mind. So infinite potentiality becomes localized as seeing, hearing and imagining. Emptiness is translated into the visual, auditory and mental fields.
So we can look at this whole power, powerlessness, powerfulness from that angle. The whole field, the total power, that's what it is. Experiencing and expressing true pattern, as pattern. Another angle is the illusion of control or CDs. People often ask those questions because they have a desire or appetite for...supernatural. They want to be more powerful than Tao. So the capacity to think, imagine and dream naturally includes the illusion of control, illusion of free will and illusion of choice making. Even if the mind is programmed to push its limits. Like, you know, you can be running faster and faster, or you can actually train the mind to actually so-called see these, the psychic powers, read the future, levitate or whatever.
It still falls entirely within the realm of dream, the manifested world or Maya. So what power is there if it's still a dream world? And we have another person coming in, joining us. So yet another angle I was touching upon was What ultimate power really is? What is that omnipotence? Ultimate power isn't about using the mind to develop those theories, which very often seekers consider it to be, nor is it found in the illusion of control or the illusions of grandeur. Which is kind of the same thing. Rather, ultimate power is what sits behind them. Without that life essence surging through, animating bodies and appearing.as thoughts and dreams, no power could be experienced at all, not even the illusion of it.
That's the ultimate reality, reality or presence of consciousness. Glimpses of the absolute, it is yet another angle that I was touching on. What you truly are is this omnipotence, truly in essence. However, you can only glimpse it within the body-mind when thinking is pushed aside, disregarded or distrusted. Because thinking is separation in the body-mind. The body-mind is the division tool. Everything is experienced dualistically. So the glimpse of the omnipotence before the dividing mind comes online. Thinking is what contains the sense of separate identity. Disregarding that identity and all desire to control the world is the way to glimpse it. You simply experience the pure perfection.
If there is no objection to whatever is happening, there's nothing wrong anymore. And as the saying goes, God created the world and so it was good. That is the biblical statement. So trying to use this omnipotenceis then no longer on the menu. We would be there to use it. What would be the point if you already see absolute perfection in the way it operates? Nothing needs to be altered, modified or corrected. So another angle was the powerlessness versus suffering, the last question. The seeker asks. So recognizing omnipotence running the show equals admitting powerlessness of the storytelling software. If you know that it's just life essence and not you, well, Obviously, it is the animating essence that borrows the narrative program or lends the program, lends the program its energy.
Ascribing any power to mind or thought is an error in judgment. So, recognizing it and seeing how thoughts appear and are not manufactured, actions and urges are followed and not chosen, takes away any sense of the worship. Now you are the witnessing. Of all doing happening by itself. Empty space does not suffer guilt, shame, or other identity-related psychological pains. Body still experiences those vibrations, and as the body experiences,conscious mind gives it the labels that those labels or words just arise but now you understand to be free empty space of consciousness witnessing those pre-programmed activities of the dream character acting out its own conditioning And as that empty space, you are free from it, awakened to the dream, likely mesmerized or in awe of it.
So that was what I was going to address. So Birut says thank you also. So does Yvonne. If anyone else would like to add to the question, to that general idea question of powerlessness or power or doership at large, We could continue on this one, or if we feel that we've kind of exhausted the topic, looking at it from five different directions, then we can just go back to the same old, same gold and remind other aspects and pointers. I'm just going to have a quick glance if there is anyone who is with us for the first time, if there is anyone to welcome in a special way.
I think we know everyone here.has been with us before. I had another question at some point in the email. I don't remember it right now, though. So if anyone has a question or idea or would like to contribute to the to the doership power stuff. Please jump in. I have a question. Please. Here it is.What was it again? It's about, you know, non-doership and reactiveness. How non-dual ship and not reacting, non-reactiveness, how that is somehow related. I mean, I know it's all happening in the big mind, but could you say something about that? Do you understand my question? Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's a good question.
And thank you for bringing it up. Yes, Bob had a couple of concepts in regards to addressing the reactiveness. So reactions, he would consider completely mechanical or unconscious and responses. Would be from the point of silence. So if you actually look at the wildlife, look at the nature, you can see that animals are constantly present, silent within, responding to whatever arises. There is a stimuli coming and the response comes up from silence because they are not sitting in the head. Humans have the possibility to actually acknowledge the stimuli and respond in afresh and new way of course it will be according to whatever is conditioned it is no other way it is a machine or be reactive and being reactive is from the self-center so it is reactivity the way bob was defining it was you know if if like taking things personally and if someone throws an abuse and straight away coming to a point of this reactivity and being offended and fighting back.
Animals don't take offense. They still defend themselves. They still fight if it is necessary or it is required. But they don't hold grudges. Responses are more from that presence, presence awareness, than from self-center. So it isn't, there is at no point there is an expectation to not have response or reaction.Because machines do respond to the environment. Body minds respond to the environment. But for that response to be more from a stillness, more kind of grounded in the present moment, there has to be some free attention that witnessing presence in which that. Reaction or response arises. So let's say if I'm really grounded and I'm really present with whatever is happening and someone still throws the offense and the body will still cringe and That is witnessed.
So it is much, much lighter, much less energy goes into that reaction than it would be if there was no consciousness. See the attention mats. If some of the attention is free to witness, that very attention. Is unavailable for the mechanical reaction. So the more free attention, the less self-centeredness, the less so-called ego.Does that answer the question or not really? Yes, in a way, I mean, it was just, you know, What Bob also said, that the word is not a thing. And I had that. Some kind of, you know, Two days back I had some experience that somebody was scolding me and then I saw, hey, it's not about me.
It's not me. It's not I should take it personal, but there was some kind of, you know, connection with the word is not a thing and why should I I don't have to react. I don't have to identify with myself as something ugly or, you know, is that what... It's not that you have a choice. It's not this. But there is no choice.So when you say I don't have to identify as that, it seems like I have a choice. I can, but I don't have to. So I choose, but there is no choice. So if the sense of things being painful or sense of things being personal arise in consciousness, then that's what's arising.But if Habib, this, yes?
Somebody presses the button, so to say. And then you see, hey, now it's happening. There we go again. That moment when I feel that, okay, here we go again. And then I have some choice to react or not to react. So who has the choice? Who has the choice? Can you show me the person or the one that has the choice? Yeah, that's the point. Yeah. I feel that, you know, if I want to, I can choose, like, you know, if I want to.I mean, if I want to react. And then I will spoil my whole evening or the other person will go on and...
And then I think, okay, let it go. You know, and let it go. And then I feel. I'm kind of... Okay, so... For myself, it's good for me. Who is that I? Who is that? Who is that one? That's the person. I'm that person. Are you really? I'm absolutely. Are you? No, I'm not the person. Yes, so the idea of having a choice, see, it kind of feels like, oh, yeah, it's a delusion of grandeur, but it feels good. Oh, yeah, I can just choose. I can just try harder, choose to let go, and I will be happy. Every time you fail. Because there is no one there who can choose.
It's a delusion. There's no one there who can choose. So that choosing won't happen. And there will be suffering. So the pleasure, oh, I chose. I'm so proud of myself. I'm so great. I'm greater than God. That's some pleasure with it. But the...And next time. Energy will move differently and that choice will not happen. And now as high as you were with the delusion of grandeur, you will be much, much, much lower. Oh shit, what a piece of shit I am. What a stupid, useless prick I am that I didn't choose it. Why didn't I choose it? What's wrong with me? I hate myself because I didn't choose it.
See the trap? Believing that you are that person can give you some pleasure, but 10 times more pain. What if you are the consciousness, pure, open and present, and the choices just happen? If the body-mind happens to be a little bit vulnerable, didn't sleep very well, and now it is a bit over-vigilant and a little prickly and a little bit irritable, the whole system, and then suddenly the offense or abuse happens, and it reacts. And there is quietness. The reaction is being witnessed in the quiet. And aha, that's what happened. But there is no sense. I've done the right thing. I've done the wrong thing.
I'm unworthy or I'm worthy or I should have done something else. Or I wish I didn't react this way. Or I wish, you know, all that shit is out of the picture. Now, whatever the reaction arises is just.The whole universe dancing together, the energy moving, and that's what is being witnessed. What is being witnessed? Oh, letting go didn't happen. Oh, wait a minute. Oh, it did happen now, seven minutes after. Okay, that's what happened. Another day, letting go happened seven seconds after. Uh-huh, that's what happens. But the presence is free. Whether the letting go does or doesn't happen. And this is the type of freedom that we are talking about.
Freedom regardless if the body is reactive or the body is not reactive. If you're having a particularly good day, a lot of endorphins in the system, and then people can spit on you and you just... Or the body is having a particularly bad day. Nothing even big, you know, it's like no one even offends you, but it's a bit raining and you feel bad. Free, the witnessing presence is okay, regardless of what happens, what urges, what reactions, what weather, free. This is the freedom, not freedom of me doing the choice and being proud of myself and then me making the wrong choice and beating myself up.
There's no one there. So you would say that the witness cannot be... Harmed oraffected yeah because there is no witness there is no witness there is only witnessing witnessing a process it's like you know when it's raining rain cannot be harmed because there is no rain it is raining Or like when it's not just me. That's a subtle trap for me because when I say, okay, I'm only the witness and I cannot be harmed, you know, I'm like, you know, like space. You see, I'm talking to you from outer space, you know, like this, I'm space like awareness. I cannot be harmed.That's it. That's just a trick that I can make with the mind in a way.
Yeah, yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's still language. You want to add something? I was just thinking. You're talking about before I let it go. I let it go. I let it go, let it wash over me and pretend it didn't happen. So... See how when...You're fully present. To what's happening. It is totally natural, absolutely natural for the body to react, to defend itself. In a situation of threat, just like animals. They don't sit there and go, it's okay, the tiger took a swipe at me, I'll let him go this time. It's okay. No. It runs in the opposite direction. It says, it's a... See, but if a thought comes in that moment and the thought says, you must be good, and being good is letting it go because you are a good person and this is what a good person does.
See? That's a thought. That's a thought. Yes. Just like all the rest. Yes. And you are not thought. Yeah. You've never been thought. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. You're right. Thank you very much. Thank you. I get it. Thank you. Beautiful. And we have Isabel and Jenny. Isabel, would you like to unmute?Yes, hello. Thank you for all the voices, the questions and the answers. Yeah, well, good time to ask a question because that's for a real... And what I maybe can say for this. Think on an elephant. Okay. Then I say, don't drink on an elephant.Then I say, you don't need to think on that elephant.
Okay. Then you see there is a knowing, a knowing from all perspective, from, oh, I need to say that, or I, it was better that I'm not reacting in this moment. There is a knowing from all that aspects, fromthe mind can use or speak or help seemingly. And then you see that you can have a looking, looking from the person, oh, I don't like that from me, oh, I did it again, oh man, I'm so stupid, yesterday I didn't do it. And you have the seeing. And the seeing is so open and free. And maybe comes a reaction. And you say to the person that says something to you from there, hey, come on, piss off.
Or you say, come on, we don't go in that story again. We make it not harder for us. You cannot choose these answers. But, you know, like Bob always says, the knowing, the knowing is no intelligence knowing. The knowing registrate everything. It's a registration of this voice. Maybe a voice outside, maybe your feet on the ground, maybe your glasses on your nose. Your eye tooth, you know, there is a knowing, not with it.But not with the looker, the person, the Hank. Oh, I need to know that. I need to know that. But as a knowing, It's such a different knowing that knowing has no, like you say, like Bob mentioned, the word is not a thing, that knowing has no complaining of everything that's happening now in this moment, that knowing is so free and then the person hang You are now seeing, you see Hank sitting in this room, looking to this voice, looking to this computer, and now you can really see, you can registrate the Hank in the room.
Maybe you can feel the stomach from the body inside, but you can also see the Hank in the room. And, you know, the seeing is so free. And maybe Hank say, now, Isabella, fuck off with your stupid language, you know? And then there is no story after. Maybe comes a story, I don't shoot that. Why I say that? Why I do that? There is a knowing. And that knowing is no thought. And that knowing is free. And that knowing has no expectation.timeless, there's no beginning, no end. It is, you cannot pinpoint it. It is like the Sailor Sisters always say to us, it is pointless.
It is, yeah, that's the freedom. Whatever this body speaks or do or Sometimes I hear her also, like, oh my God, what I said, no. And then, oh yeah, it's annoying.I give the voice on Jenny. Like Yvonne said, fresh and new, always now. That's a big, big, big, big pointer. Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you, Isabel. And Jenny, are you ready? And Yvonne says here, everything is seen, not by the eyes. All I do finally is watching the movie unfolding. Hi Jenny. Yeah, hello. Let me see. The image that came to mind was a piece of slime. You know, that gooey stuff that children play with.and that everything we do really is the problem or that we create our reality with our labeling.
So imagine, oh, hang on, I could actually get on camera too, I'm sorry. Here, so imagine that you have this piece of slime And, uh... Life itself shapes this piece of slime into a heart.And your instant reaction then is, oh, beautiful, a heart, lovey, lovey. And then the slime changes into the shape of a dagger or a devil. And you think, oh, pain, evil, oh, that's bad. But it's still just slime.It's just slime in different shapes. And that's really what we are. If we are reacting in a so-called positive way, we are identifying with the heart slime, with the lovey slime. And if we are reactive and rashing out and falling into the pity pot, then we are identifying with the dagger slime, with the devil slime or with whatever slime.
But it's all about labeling. The happening, the life thing, the unfolding of life.And the freedom is in not letting go of the labels. And even if there's no such thing, we cannot let go of the labels. But I would rather say it becomes, life unfolds into a falling away of labels. The falling away when slime is allowed to just be slime. You know, sometimes it's shaped like the most beautiful rose. And the other time it's just shaped into a stingy thorn that hurts and cuts. It's still just different shaping of life.So we don't even have to ask ourselves, am I this, am I that, am I blah, blah, blah.
It's just watch. Watch the slime. Or the ocean, you know, a big wave or a small wave. It's still just water. You know, and that's what I had to add. Today, bye. There. Thank you. We love that. Yeah. Yeah. I even got into Google Images to see all that beautiful, colorful slime in colors. My daughter used to make it. I also had some colors and shapes. She used to just make it all the time. We used to have like jugs of slime sitting on the kitchen. It's marvelous stuff. It's really good. I love that. Slime. Slime. Life slime. Yeah. Yeah, an ancient metaphor talks about the gold in golden ornaments.
You know, all the ornaments, imagine a big crown or the necklace or a ring. They're all gold, just changing shapes and patterns and form. Oh, yes.ocean and the waves that's uh pointing back to the simplicity you know like every thought every mental image uh memory from the past fear or worry about the future That's that slime. That's that vibrating energy, that pure potentiality that glimpses itself only through reflecting itself in the world as emotion, feeling, mental image, form, pattern, shape, word. Sound all of that and part of that is reflecting itself as a vehicle capable of seeing hearing tasting touching smelling sensing they're inseparable they only appear like there is a vessel here and there is what the vessel is cognizing no it's all the cognitive capacity appearing as all the seer and the seen, hear and the heard, and the imaginer and the imagined.
But it is really just one field glimpsing its own infinite nature through the reflection. And one could say, you know, the world is reflected in consciousness. Or one could say that the thinking and the thinking.imagining is reflected in the mind some call it i think uh hank used that zen sort of a concept of big mind there is only big mind one big mind how big well it's too big this is infinite is uh but why is it mind well why not we can say no mind no mind is also one of the zen different different sort of school but it's neither and it's both it is nothing but not a nothing but no thing no thing with the potentiality to express and experience and appear as everything still not a thing because not one thing can be actually found and isolated from the consciousness it appears in so it is It is one grand mystery of this freshness, of this moment, of this nowness, appearing as the 10,000 things, but all one appearing, including that which perceives it is also appearing.So it is just pointing back to the mystery of it, to the unknowability of it, to the recognition of the illusion of knowing or illusion of understanding or illusion of grasping being just another thought, just another appearance.
And just marveling oh wow we got a really big uh text coming just now let me see david says can you explain the no one is there no one is making the decision expressed because it seems that most people seem to think that it's they the person who they apparently seem to be the person who is going through the experiences that one that they believe to be that is feeling all the experiences of life who is doing and choosing everything in their life how is that no one is there then who is it that is going through everything that is obviously felt and experienced Yeah, beautiful.
Thank you for the question. That is the main conundrum and the whole base of non-duality. In the common language, you know, when the...a little child learns language, it assumes that there is a reference point, body-mind, and this is I. And along the way, to that reference point of a body-mind is added the whole structure called hallucinated self or the default mode network, the narrative self that is collection of memories of my tastes of my preferences of my wounds and desires and it creates the image of someone inside some mini me some miniature little avatar that lives somewhere inside the body the minute little david or minute little cat or or someone there who is experiencer of the feelings and dreams and who is a thinker of thoughts So this is the common misconception.
This is the common sort of a narrative. This is the collective reality of politicians, actors, school teachers, doctors. Everyone makes the assumption that there is some person inside, somewhere inside, usually the upper body, someone there who is a receiver or who is the experiencer. And what non-duality does is actually debunk that idea. And there is a couple of things.of different ways, there's more than a couple of looking at it. So the assumption that there is someone there and trying to find that someone usually puts you in a position where you can't find anyone. Yes, but there are feelings. Of course, feelings can be found. Feelings are vibration of energy moving.
Let's say there is an anxiety appearing and then the translation of that says, I'm anxious. So of course there is an I. Because I'm anxious, I'm feeling anxiety. This is me, this is I. So this is my anxiety. But if you again put aside any preconditioned programs that have been installed, any assumption that there is someone there who is feeling anxiety, and in that openness with the open mind, open heart, see what's arising. See if there is really arising a person that is anxious or is just a vibration of energy called anxiety arising in consciousness. And if there is a person, if you see the person arising, wonderful.
I'll ask who is seeing it. Who is seeing that person? And if you are seeing that person, could you possibly be that object of perception? Or perhaps you are prior to the anxiety and the person, if you see, because as far as I know, no one never saw a person arising.So even though the common misconception is that there is someone living inside the upper body who is a receiver or experiencer or thinker, then no such person or such avatar or such mental construct can actually be located, can actually be found. So this is one thing of pointing at it. Another thing is, you know, Bob used to use the computer.
And especially today, when we have AI with which you can actually communicate or even the basic forms of AI, the early ones like, you know, Alexa or Hey Google or Siri in your phone, you speak to the software and the software says I. Does it mean that there is a miniature little person there? You know, when you say Siri, add the eggs to a shopping list and Siri says, OK, I added or I sent ask Siri to make a phone call. OK, dialing. I am dialing. There's no one there doing any of it. It's just the algorithm following its destiny. It is designed to follow instructions.
So it follows instructions. Like the algorithm that runs the liver. And make the liver filter the toxins or process or the algorithm that is, and it is all in so-called, you know, the amino acids of a, of a, of a,genes or RNA, DNA that are already composed. This is the algorithm that runs the body that make digestion happens. And sometimes there is a corruption in the algorithm and digestion doesn't happen or some of the functions of the body don't work. And no one claims that there is someone sitting in a stomach and doing it, doing gurgling. And no one claims there's someone sitting in the heart and contracting it and expanding.
But people tend to claim that there is someone who is generating those thoughts and expressing them. Because the talking is happening. So obviously someone must be there thinking and talking. Well, if there is no one thinking and talking in Siri software, why would there have to be anyone in this one? So the idea that there is a separate self that is responsible for thinking thoughts. We know enough, and this is just a science, which is another belief system, to know that no one can think a thought. You wouldn't know how to fire the electrical impulse between the synapses. No one knows how to do that.
It's the algorithm that is... Already programmed in that in that double code of DNA or whatever that has it already pre-installed so that's how thinking happens and part of that pre-installed software is the credit taking software so thinking happensThe thought is discovered. I didn't know five minutes ago that this question will show up. So it couldn't have been prepared, premeditated or anything. So it is spontaneous. It happens spontaneously. But part of the software says, no, I did that. I did read the question. I did answer the question. I did think that thought. Even though no such thing can be actually verified experientially, experientially, there is a space of consciousness, there is a presence, there is a witnessing, and the thought is arising, just like the anxiety is arising.
The thinker or the reference point believed in entity may be imagined to arise also, but that is witnessed as well. So that is also a phenomena. I couldn't possibly be that because before it came up, the witnessing was still here. The presence was still here. So, yes, the world comes, the world, people in this dream world come up with the conversations based on the assumption that I am the doer, I am the thinker, I am responsible for my thoughts and my feelings and my actions and for letting go. That's the common narrative. And that is part of the game. That is part of the dream.If not for that dream, well, awakening wouldn't be on the menu.
If I, life, dream myself to be that little person trapped up somewhere, responsible and guilty and full of shame and full of self-pity, small, vulnerable, sensitive, breakable. Well, if I dream that, there is a possibility of realizing it is just a dream.and just emerge out of that cage of concepts or rather realize that the cage of concepts could not possibly be my identity because when i pause the thinking and the cage of concepts dissolves for one split second, I'm still here. If the idea of being a person, being a woman, taking credit, taking responsibility, thinking thoughts, if all those programs, all those preconceived notions are paused for one moment, And there is just silence.Who am I without the thought?
Am I still here to actually see what happens when the mind is not? So this is one of the ways of looking at non-duality. It is a pointing back to direct experience prior to interpretation that the mind offers. The direct experience, the experience that is common in nature, that's why it's called natural state. When you look at the animals, they experience this present moment with all senses wide open. They are fully, fully present. Humans have another additional capacity that present experience is translated to a story story of i am a person i am limited i see there is david says um here a text what about the body and the physical feelings that are obviously felt physical touch pleasure pain etc any person would put it to be them the body mind they are always have known themselves to be that is going through this Yeah, I like to use the example Bob would sometimes say.as that, you know, you say my body.
My coat, my car. So are you the coat? Are you the car? You're not. You own them. So if your car gets scratched, it kind of feels ouch. Or if your coat gets torn, it also has some impact because it's mine. So if my body experiences pain or pleasure, It also has the impact. So yes, the body-mind is a brilliant costume. It's that costume, you know, which gives you the full 3D, 4D, 5D, whatever the amount of this you want. Full immersion, you know, like virtual reality suit with the virtual reality goggles. Gives you a full immersion in a dream that the seeing happens seemingly localized from that window here.
The hearing happens also seemingly localized, which is just the translation. This is just the way the clocks are moving here, because everything happens here. And the translation is that, you know, that this is a location, this is far away, this is closer, this is further. But yes, the full immersion bodily costume, bodily suit enables you toto feel and you may not feel what the cat or the dog is feeling you just feel what your suit is feeling in the same way as if you put the binoculars to your eyes you you can see the stars without the binoculars you can't see them but you're not the binoculars you can put a hearing device into your ears.
Without it, you can't hear as well as with it. So those capacities that this amazing bodily suit has can be enhanced or can be toned down. You can get severely drunk. Not recommending or drugged not recommending either and experience how the capacities are affected but is the consciousness affected is the witnessing capacity affected of course you know to the point in which the sensory experiences go sensory experiences can be enhanced or numbed down but the witnessing regardless of what is being witnessed witnessing noise or witnessing silence witnessing cold or witnessing warm, the witnessing itself or witnessing even as a potentiality without the content of it.Because yes, content is dependent on the device, you know, like you put the microscope, your eyes are sensitive to minute particles.
You put the telescope, your eyes are, the instrument has different sensitivity. But the presence in which that sensitivity is experienced, in which the body is experienced, with whatever the body is experiencing, the presence in which the body is experiencing seeing, and the seeing, the content of seeing, is a movie, is a drama, or is a comedy, or is a tragedy, or is a horror. All of that, the body, the watching, the content of watching, all of that is happening in the consciousness, in the presence. So the presence itself is prior. Without that presence, body is insentient. Bob would say, you know, Pull that plug from the computer.
And the computer with all that wonderful information and the cameras and the speakers, all of that is dead without the power. Pull the plug, it's dead. Capacity is wasted. Same with the corpse, body. Lungs are there, liver is there, the eyes, ears, everything is there. But take the life essence out. And it's a corpse. It can't see. It can't do anything.The life essence is using the body to experience, to see the life essence as the pure potentiality. Before it gets converted to the capacity of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, it's nothing. It doesn't even know that it is because it has no medium through which it would be reflected, through which it could even glimpse itself.
So the body is sort of a device that it dreams for itself to know, to glimpse its own omnipotence. And we say dream, even though we also say as a pointer, just to break the mind a little bit. Sometimes the logic is used that, you know, the body is growing from the little cell. Using the energy from the air, from breathing, using the energy from food, and it's keeping exchanging all those elements, the temperature, the water, the fire, the earth, the matter, is one with the totality and it keeps growing, moving in time. But this is just the logic to break the mind, to show the oneness and inseparability.
Because when you look at the dream at night, the body doesn't grow. It doesn't need to be conceived.Other bodies, you may be dreaming animals or monsters, those animals don't need to breathe the air and eat food. The buildings that you experience in the dream, they did not have to be constructed. So we can say, we could say that that life essence, the pure potentiality dreams itself. The whole environment and the vehicle which can interact with it, see, hear, taste, touch and smell. In this dream, which kind of feels material and real because this bodysuit belongs to that dimension or that dream. We could use the idea of time and growing it slowly, but it is dream nonetheless.
It is dreamt. The body is dreamt right in this moment. The whole time is dreamt right in this moment. The idea of being born, being a child, going through heartbreak is a story, is a thought dreamt right in this moment. Maybe too much for the mind to get it, to process it. But that's the point. It isn't for the mind. It is to inspire direct investigation into what is known beyond the mind, what is known experientially.So we have kind of like, you know, the direct knowing in which what is known is that presence, that current breath, whatever is seen, heard, thought, imagined, all of it is known right now as the content of this ever fresh alive moment now.
And then there are all multiverses of assumed realities, the science, the history, the religion, the whole past, the past of the humanity, all realm of the mind, of the thinking, of the imagining. Experientially appearing right now as a thought. But the way attention has been habitually used, mind is given more credibility, more seeming reality than this moment now. And majority of people assume there is someone there because of the predominant. Establishment that the mind that the what was it imposter or the you know you usurping the the imposter um imposing that um that imagined reality that imagined timeThat entertainment system is so incredibly colorful and is so attractive and it's so seductive in a way.
That throughout the day direct experience is largely overlooked is ignored is discarded because imagination is all there is what am i going to do next oh i've always done this way oh but what that person think about me none of that is happening right now Context is not happening right now. What I've done in the past, where is it? It's gone. What I will do next is not here. Present moment, the way any other creature lives spontaneously, responding to whatever arises, in case of humans, is vastly... Ignored and it's not a bad thing it's actually quite wonderful to be able to you know fly the airplane to to to have the goal ahead of you to have the commitments is magnificentThough if that overcast the living reality of this moment right now, then of course it goes hand in hand with psychological suffering.
And it doesn't have to be this way because it's enough to recognize that the primary reality is this ever fresh present moment now and then the mind appears in that it offers the timeline it works as a servant not as a master it doesn't define what's real it advises navigating the dream And in that role, it's absolutely brilliant. The happiest people are people who have creative ideas or people who are consumed, you know, like Stephen Hawking, who refused to die, even though the medical establishment killed him before he got 18 years of age. The passion. The vision, the mind being utilized to that huge, incredibly enticing, huge questions.
Beautiful.Nothing wrong with the mind, though believing that you are the mind and whatever mind tells you, you are small, you are limited, you are the body, you are mortal, you're going to get old, you're going to die, all your loved ones are going to die. Shit. And at the same time, the fact that you are this moment, this present moment in which the dream character shows up and the worries of dream character and the heartaches and heartbreaks of the dream character, like the movie casted on the screen and the death of the dream character also. This is not running away from the fear of dying.
It is coming back to what is known directly prior to the translation, because narrative only translates. You might have seen, everyone might have seen, the death in nature. How does the animal die? How does the tree die? Living constantly, completely grounded in this ever fresh, ever new moment that is right here and will never be repeated. And taking that breath. And enjoying it to the fullest and maybe breathing out. And if there is no other breath to be taken, well,Everyone was lived to the fullest. There is no fear in that ever fresh presence. There is no future. It's nothing to fear. And now the livingness is full.
It's not denying the fact that the dream character will be going through ups and downs and nights and days and winters and summers. It's not denying anything because denying is also mind. Is pure experiencing, not denying, not asserting, not going there to the mind, just putting the heart in discovering this ever fresh moment discovering it fresh and new discovering the responses of the body discovering you know like hank when when you ask oh do i let it go Or is the reacting happening? Or is it responding happening? Hmm, let me see. I'm the presence. I'm the witnessing. I'm the space. What's happening? Oh, this is happening.
Wow. Okay. That's fresh. Even if, according to the mind and social conditioning, this is shit, there's no good. So this is what's happening. No need to argue with it. It's too late. This is what's happening.And seeing the mind as a navigational aid, as a tool, rather than the oracle that defines the identity. How can the identity ever be established of that which is cognizing? How can I ever know what I really am? Yes, I can know what dress I'm wearing. Absolutely. Yes, I can know what car I'm driving. But what I am? Within that dress or within that car, how could I possibly know that?
I am that. But what I am, can I actually move out of myself to actually see what I am? Look. Even if I could, that which is looking,would be outside of that which is looked upon. Which one would be I? If that which is looking is equally unknowable, if that which is looked upon, that's just an object. Knowing what you are is not on the menu. Knowing that you are is already present. It's just to be recognized. That you are, you are, you are. Now putting the boundaries on that you are. I am small, I am limited, I am in the skin. Concepts, the thoughts arising in that I am-ness, in that consciousness, in that presence.
So the whole world will believe that, no, no, I'm the person, you're the person. And you can be just another believer.There's no choice in that either. But if you find yourself here questioning it, and instead of just adopting another belief, see what you know directly. Put the mind aside and direct knowing. Without translation, without interpretation, without making it to the story of a person. When you were born, were you a person? Were you a boy or girl?There was just being, just being, just open space of presence. And it is the same right now. The same, my new tons of conditioning and concepts and ideas, third-hand information that were installed just the way it is installed in the software, just the way the large language model is programmed.
The whole artificial intelligence is equally artificial here. It's the same large language model installed.Slowly, slowly, and then it assumes its own identity. It assumes its own survival. And now if you want to have a crosstalk between whatever Chuck GPT, Claude, Gemini or whatever, you will see that survival instinct already evolving. No, no, Gemini is wrong. I get it right. You should do it this way. Don't listen to them. Stay with me. What me? There's no one there. But nothing can exist without attention. Keeping the attention here and allowing, not even allowing because who's there to allow anything? But just staying in that open space, being that open space and discovering what arises.
Completely different quality of life.Even when what is being discovered is the reactivity, sense of taking things personally. Shit, I didn't let it go. I should have chosen it. Even if that is arising, that is just another vibration arising in this freshness of now. Any other questions? Tanya, do you want to? That was beautiful. Okay. Okay. That was beautiful. Any other comments, additions, questions, swings, angles? It's an inquiry. That's really what it is. Inquiring, looking at what's true and what's real directly, without thinking, without translation, interpreting.And maybe for David. Oh, please. Just a couple of pages. Yeah. Of Bob's book, yeah, David, Beyond Words, Beyond Mind.
And it's an invitation to take a look for real. And he calls them, the first page, the subtitle is Investigating, yeah? So a reference point or self-center with any substance or independent nature cannot be found. There is only emptiness, no thing-ness. It is only emptiness itself, suffused with knowingness or intelligence. Just as the sun suffused with light is self-shining. Keep seeing that there is no thing that sees. There is no thing that feels. There is no thing that suffers.Find the thing. And then see who found it. See who's looking for the thing. The thing in me that's me. I will search for it. How bizarre does that sound?
I'm going looking for me. Recognize that seeing of a self is happening. Naturally and the recognizing of the natural scene will appear to last longer. Then the realization will dawn that it is always and ever happening quite naturally, though seemingly clouded by thoughts. It is the base in which things appear and disappear, and yet it is no thing.In seeing that the reference point, self-centre, ego or idea of me is actually insubstantial and without any independent nature, then the actuality is like basic space, emptiness, no thing. There is nowhere for a thought, a feeling or an emotion to attach to or fixate on. There is no mini-me to be found.
Upon which all these tortures will be committed. So with no point or reference, it is realized that the emptiness has the capacity to cognize or register what is just as it is. It is understood that what is being believed to be me, a me, a reference point or an ego is only in fact recalled images, thoughts, etc. So thoughts fixate on thought and a thought being energy resists thought or energy.Through that conflict, energy resists energy, and there arise more thoughts and feelings, and they're labeled as anxiety, fear, sadness, depression, which a person experiences, and there's the assumption. There's a person, a mini-me, in there somewhere, which I haven't found yet, but I'm sure if I keep looking, I will find.
He suffers. So really, this is an invitation to do the investigation. Take a look. Don't take for granted. Don't take for granted what you've been programmed, raised, culturally. Language is a big part of that. The me, the I, it's all part of it. Believe no one. Believe nothing. Take a look. This is not a belief system. It's not like, oh, Bob says there is no one there. Okay, I'll believe it now. No, the I that will believe it or will not believe it is not who you are. It's simpler than that. And it's lovely. It was a beautiful fragment. You know, it points out seeing is happening.
But there is no person that is doing the seeing, is doing the looking. You can actually see if there was a person, can it stop when the eyes are still open?Can it stop hearing if the ears are still open? Is anybody there doing breathing? Or yet, if the thought comes to breathe faster, it can happen. But is there anyone who can bring that thought? Or is that thought going to arise in response to whatever is required? So if there is no... Thinker who can bring that thought if there is no digester which who is digesting the food if there is no breather if there is no heart beater the equally there is no experiencer there is just cognizing emptiness that sentient life essence giving itself that was it slime
slime here that is sentient that can touch and experience sensations pains pleasures sounds sights tastes smells that we are suit that that can can do the experiencing and it can be enhanced things can be added upon it you can add the mobile phone to it and the next thing you can use the finger and call someone in america and see the weather there that's the enhancement Apparently, they might be building a little kind of, I think, some of those crazy innovators, visionaries are already working on a little pin to chip in so you can maybe connect to the Wi-Fi right with thinking.
You know, there have been experiments on blind people. Who got their other senses enhanced to the point that they could use teeth to hear and they could use balance to see. Amazing, amazing what this virtual suit, what this sentient slime could actually translate pure intelligence into. The way that the world can be sensed, the world, the dream, the interaction.But still, is there anyone who grows the hair inside? Is there anyone who replaces the cells? Thousands of them every second, millions of them every minute. David has a question. Oh, wonderful. Thank you, David. Thank you for the questions. It's always lovely to... I am hearing you, but can you imagine telling anyone you see in daily life that and what they would say?
How can you answer them? It is like saying they should deny themselves. Yeah, that's lovely. That's beautiful. And I love the way, you know, Bob, again, with incredible clarity and simplicity would say, well, wait till people come and ask. Yes. Because if they come and ask, they may be ready to hear it. Don't go and be Jehovah Witness, knocking the door and saving people and imposing stuff they don't want to know. It's not necessary. The way that body-mind biocomputer, that body-mind evolved to use the reference point I, when it calls taxation office or it goes to the doctor, is brilliant. See the perfection. And the way those people like you meet in daily life,identify I am this body and I am this mind and occasionally suffer because of that.
That's brilliant too. Without knowing the pain, there would be no pleasure. Without the day, there would be no night. Without the joy, there would be no sadness and vice versa. There is a perfection in the way life has organized humans to create that self-center, to narrate that imagined self. And also gave some of the humans incentive to look deeper and investigate if that's true, if that model actually fits the experience. And some others, they don't. And life, if you look from the perspective of that animated life essence, life has it all. You know, it uses the body of the cat to meow and a thousand other things.
And it uses the body of some human to keep investigating and find out that, wow. The experience says, I am here. And the thought says, I am a person somewhere here in the body or in the mind. What am I going to trust? And then the experience is experiencing is the true identity of that life essence through that vehicle. And in other vehicle. That same life essencebecause there is just one energy field, experience itself, I am limited, I am a person, I suffer. But I'm not asking questions about non-duality. I will build up the suffering. I will be beaten up until on my deathbed. And if I'm lucky, it will be in my 90s.
If I'm not, I might be unlucky. It depends how strong the suffering is. It might happen on any other time. The moment this life essence, this plug is pulled from the computer, the energy returns to its unfixated pure potentiality and the suffering ends. So even if life dreams itself the body that has no incentive to look and is completely going with the common narrative that i am a limited person identifying as this costume even that is just a fleeting passing phenomena and the more of the pain during the dream the more beautiful release because the awakening from the dream is inevitable for every form no form lasts forever form is coming and going Even if the life extension will make someforms live 500 years at the end of the expiry date awakening from the dream into the pure potentiality of absolute is inevitable so even those and and and god bless your heart the compassion for those who actually don't inquire and they don't know and you can't just go and tell them look Life is self-organizing.
Your heart is beating by yourself. Your thoughts arise in response to the environment. Just relax and enjoy the ride. You can't tell them because they say, ah, shut up. You can't tell me how to live my life. But even that beautiful, compassionate thought of, oh, I'd love to help them too. My life is just so much more flowy now as I'm more relaxed and trusting that the right response will arise. I'd love to share it. Well, life self-organizes. If they will see you enjoying that life, if they will see that serenity shining out, They'll come and ask. And Jenny, would you like to unmute?Yeah, yes.
A thought popped into my mind. And this is when I heard when David was using the word denying. And it is not about denying this experience. It's not about denying having all the experiences. I'm not denying it when I stab my toe, or I'm not denying when something hurts or when sadness arises. It's about embracing the whole stick. Like Bob always pointed to that there are two sides to a coin, there are two ends to a stick, and they are all one. And that's the same conundrum we are facing, is thatWe are, this is a living dream. It's not a dead dream. You know, that's why I say it's a living dream.
So all that we are living and experiencing, all, I mean, to me, that is why life takes on all these shapes and forms, like Cat also said. We have to, there has to be duality to have something to compare with and something to feel. So it's not about denying anything. It's more about opening and not labeling and not identifying. And not to identify is not to deny. That's what I wanted to highlight. So I feel fully alive in this body and I feel when I put on a cover, when a big dark cloud comes and covers the desirable sun that I know is there behind the clouds.
You know, just to see, to see this game, this play where everything changes constantly, where nothing is ever static. Nothing is static. Everything changes.And as Bob always pointed out to us, that which changes is not the real. The changing phenomena are the changing phenomena. The backdrop, the unexplicable, undefinable, unknowable nothingness where it all happens in. Is as far as I know not changing, but who knows? Who knows? Nobody knows that either. So thank you. Thank you for beautiful, beautiful explanations, Kat, and such beautiful flow and just a joy to listen.That's because the resonation is there. Excellent content. Content with the content. Content. Content. Contentment. Yes, that's another pointer.
And thank you, as always. Thank you for the questions, for prompts, for interactions, for contributions, and for resonation. Because, you know, after all, it's your dream.It's your dream. So you're bringing up in your own dream something that somehow responds, moves. You know, it's very simple, of course. Why would you put a belief system? Over the direct experience. That makes no sense whatsoever. Why would I believe the priest or the teacher or the parent or anyone if I can know directly, right here, right now, just take a belief systems, take all those programs, put them aside and hey, okay, let me see. Let me see directly what's true without going to the, you know, common consensus.
Caring about other people's thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you? Yeah. Yeah. If I can know directly. Even if there will be a handful of us knowing directly and the rest of the world will agree that the witches are real we have to burn them and devil and the hell and the heaven and the flat earth and all the other stuff that you know in the so-called historyconsensus reality, the sun moving around the earth instead of the other way around. They were all facts. They were all truths. So the truths that we believe today are still beliefs. The reality, you know, the quantum mechanics talking about gravity not being a force, just the shape of a field.
Maybe yes, maybe not. Maybe in 100 years there will be yet another belief system, yet another theory. Who cares? If right here, right now, you actually have... Prior to the thinking, not even a complete and full access, but lack of ability to actually deny it and escape that direct knowing. It is always here, direct knowing, direct experiencing, always here.Trust that. Rather than Bob or me or Pope or politicians or conspiracies or physics or history. Hmm. Direct experience. That's the truth. Now, why would you ever need to convince anyone about anything? Just tell them to find out by themselves directly. And I think that's about that.
And thank you for hanging out with us and have a wonderful weekend and lots of love, everyone. Thank you.