This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Zoom recording and we are over to Facebook live already. So welcome everyone who's with us on Zoom and on Facebook. And see how we go on the few remote locations joined together. As usual, anyone up for a spiel? Loki, no? Ben, not yet? One day. Yeah. So anyone up for answering a question from Delis Tony? Hey.Or I can just repeat what was going on here. I'm just maybe close the door. On a birthday party, 40th birthday party of a purple hair girl. And the whole party is going around. Everyone's picking non-duality. Nobody ever heard about non-duality. Nobody ever heard of Sailor Bob. But when you land in that space of presence, of that immediacy of the heart, just drop.
From the thinking mind and distractions and stories and concepts. Well, that's all there is. And sometimes people complain that, oh, I have no one to speak about it. I have no one to share it with because I can't just go to people and tell them there is no self. They'll lock me up. The very, very basic basics of the natural state of just being in a space of heart is known and familiar. It's a natural state. It's known and familiar to everyone. There's no one who can deny. This present moment, this being here. And it's quite straightforward to see how the suffering comes up when that presence here, that staying in that immediateof the heart is obscured by the ideas, ideas of past, of future, of me, of my problems, of my challenges, of people not accepting me, me not belonging.
All that stuff. Oh, we have someone else coming. There we go. Stop smiling, Lucky. It's a serious matter. Serious matter, yeah. Serious topic. There's no room for any smiles or laughter. Yes. And even the idea of birthday has such a bad reputation in the spiritual circles. Come on, you are not the body. You should not be celebrating birthdays. That's wrong. That's sin. That's evil. But it's not the body that is celebrated. The body is just a vehicle. The body, without the body, the life essence, the consciousness, the pure space of awareness is blind, is deaf, is immobile, is still. It doesn't even exist. It doesn't experience or express itself.
So body is... Not necessarily to be celebrated as your identity, but it is to be celebrated or acknowledged or appreciated as the vehicle through which the God can have a glimpse of itself, can see itself.So that's really that. You want to add to that? Happy man waiting. Happy man. Wonderful. Including happy man to our Zoom meeting. Yeah. Happiness, the natural state. Welcome, happy man. And there is eight of us here on Zoom, and I have not checked how many of us is here on Facebook. I'll just get into it.And back again to the natural state, to that effortlessness of being. That is here, always, always here, underneath the cloud of concepts, cloud of imaginary locations that are not presently here, that are only mental constructs here.
And imaginary time, past and future, which again are only mental constructs. Where is yesterday, if not just this fleeting idea showing up right now? Can anyone ever find it? Is there a past? Is there a future? And if there is no timeline, if there is no past and future, who are you? Who are you without your memories, without your history?And you see that mind can have a lot of stories to say about who you are, what you are, how worthy you are, how deserving of love or connected or separate or all that nonsense. But if you really... Oh, that was John was a happy man.
No, there's another happy man. Yeah, well. You're not a happy man. Yes. It's one. Oh, yeah, welcome.Yes, so the natural state is that happy natural state, the state of joy of being, the state which is unobscured by the clouds of beliefs. That is primary, that is immediately known, that is intrinsically known. It's not believed. It's not like... Someone tells you there is no separation. Okay, okay, okay. I believe you. I really want to believe you. I really, really want to believe you. How do I make myself believe that? If I look around and there are so many different bodies and shapes and forms, you know, how am I going to believe it?
No, that's not about the beliefs. Belief is the shortest way to suffering. Any belief. The immediate direct experience is the answer. The idea of separation comes from the dividing mind, comes from the language. In this immediacy, right here, right now, can you separate anything from the field of awareness or seeing in which it appears? Can you separate anything from space, Bob would say? The space of appearance, the dream space. Can anything be separated? Can you be separated? Can any other object that appears simultaneously in that consciousness arises together with the viewer and with the point of view? In the immediate direct.experience separation is frankly impossible.
It can't happen. But then, of course, comes the division, comes the labeling. And for the sake of navigating in the world, using that brilliant vehicle through which God can see and navigating the world, it is very, very convenient to see separate walls and doors so you don't bump onto them. And animals and birds are also perceiving in the same way as humans. I also heard people arguing with Bob that true enlightenment means the perception changes and you don't see separation anymore. Well, separation. It's a concept. It's not something to be visible. It is something to be known.The lack of separation is the knowing, is the immediacy.
All the dream arising with its content. This dream, night dream, any dream. So the separation is an idea, it's a mad idea in the mind. But the perception, again, for the sake of navigating the dream, the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, All the sensory experiences, always present, always grounding in here. They're always now, always immediate.inseparable from the space, inseparable from the vehicle that uses them as a navigational system in the dream. They work the way they work. There wouldn't be a sound if there was no silence. There would be no sight. There would be no light if there's no darkness. For the dream to appear, it has to appear dualistically.
It has to appear as the 10,000 things. And there is always a dream. Dream never ends. Dreaming goes on. If there is no dreaming, there is nothing. And in fact, dreaming is also nothing. But that's the only way the experiencing and expressing can happen.So I still don't see that Facebook notification. Can you? Sorry, I just got to check if we actually transitioned correctly. No, it hasn't come. Maybe I just missed out something. No, seems like. Okay.So, because I can't see the notification, if there is anyone who is watching us on Facebook Live, you may want to consider click that Zoom link on Bob's website and just hop in.
So we will know that we are not missing any comments. It will eventually come, but... And that's right now. Yeah, so you want to say something? No, you're talking about the body. And isn't it interesting, like, all these perceptions, you know, isn't the body like this chemical, biological... Thing that as soon as there's a slight tweak in the chemistry or biology or receptors or receptor sites, perception changes. So anything in the view, in the appearance, is subject to this chemistry, this biology. One flicker, one thing that's eaten, one thing that's absorbed from the environment that it is, alters it. And then it's like, oh, the view looks this way or the view looks that way or now it looks nice and now it's peaceful.
But it's a constant changing, shifting landscape. And did you alter the chemistry that changed the perception?Is it even possible? And yet it's this filter, this way of viewing is in constant change. And what is changing it? The whole universe is changing it. And all that change is always now. Like it doesn't change it. It's not a progressive, slow change. It's like, boom. Here's the picture. Here's the image. Here's the appearance. Here's how it's appearing.Doesn't it just prove that the... The dreamlike nature of it, the unreality of it. Or the untruth of it, or the relative truth of it. It's appearing relative. It's a relative landscape subject to infinite factors that's causing it to appear in this particular way at this particular point.
Isn't that something worth marveling at? Rather than thinking I'm this fixed entity in this body controlling something and wanting to change things and improve them, like just the realization that it is exactly as it is. And all these factors, all these things appearing to happen. We have Joseph with us. You can sit here and be with us. Yeah, we, I actually didn't give people a little introduction that we are on a magnificent birthday party where nobody heard about Silo Bob and everybody speaks the Anguillite. Yeah, yeah. So whichever corner I looked is just, you know, and we were just, Dean was just elaborating on that multi-factorial dream, that interconnected reality, which everything affects everything else.So let's say a piece of music sometimes arises, at some point arises and changes perception and bring people down to their hearts and they open up and they remember suddenly, remember that which is obvious, that which cannot be forgotten because that who forgets is not your true self, it's just a yapping mind, it's just a chatter on the surface.
While deep down underneath that cloud of confusion, there is always peace, there is always presence, never not here. Every time since you were a little child, that presence always here.And even when you are dreaming about the past or future or worrying, creating some negative scenarios, possible happenings, it is always happening here. It is always happening now. All the past, right now. All the future right now as a dream as a mental projection a little mental image that disappears instantly when it's disbelieved and or when it's just relaxed out relaxing out of that sinking mind back into that space of presence that cannot be denied, that cannot be believed or disbelieved.
No one has to brainwash you to discover the fact of your own existence. But you do have to be brainwashed or right to make yourself believe that you are a point in consciousness, that you are a body, that you are a vehicle. That you are a person, good enough or not good enough. And all that nonsense, all that conceptual image, all that costume that is put upon that pure, unadulterated, open, limitless, timeless presence. Necessarily for the fact for for the experiencing and expression but with the by by a product of psychological suffering of theof identification, of defending that identity, protecting that identity, and having endless chatter about me, endless self-obsession about what people think about me.
What am I going to do with my future? What if I waste my life? What if I get sick? What if I get rejected? And all that obsession about the me that can't be found, that is not even there. There is a mental construct for the purpose of navigation. But in the immediacy, cannot be found.So you're saying I can't function from a more authentic self? Yeah, we love that. This is such a beautiful spiritual slogan. Authentic self. Anyone wants to elaborate on authenticity of self? What's the fake self? What's inauthentic? If this is just one fabric of the dream appearing to itself as this moment right now, looking at itself in this shape and in this form, and apart on that, there shows up the judgment, this is fake or this is authentic.
What does it change? What does it matter? The whole beautiful idea of being more authentic or less authentic is another little trick of the mind trying to stay by the skin of their teeth in control, in charge. I will be better. I will become more authentic. I will become more true self. I will become in the future. Because right now, no, no, no, we're not thinking about right now. For right now, mind has nothing to say. So the only way out of the mind right now, where is the mind in this moment? If you cut off the mental images of the past, mental images of the future,all the worries, all the concepts.
Who are you? Without your concepts, without your past. And are you not? Can you deny that presence, that immediate existence? And all you see is the reflection of that infinite potentiality that you are. Right at this moment, appearing as this. You can marvel at the reflection of your own self appearing as this.And it's not going to last. The nature of appearance, the nature of the dream is to constantly fluctuate, constantly change. But dreaming, dreaming is always here. It's not a problem that the dreaming is here. Nisargadatta used to say, dream is not your problem. You don't have to stop dreaming. You don't have to wake up from the dream.
Just realize the dream is not your problem, only the fact that you love one part of it and not the other. When you realize it is a dream, you appreciate all of it fully. You appreciate the darkness, for without it there is no light. You appreciate the pain. It has its place. Without it, there is no pleasure. Appreciate the storytelling, the suffering, the turmoil of the mind.Because if there was no dream of being separate, there would be no appreciation of realization that this is just a dream. It's an intricate, beautiful dance in which, in the ancient mythology, you have the Shiva as pure potentiality, or the sky, the nature of consciousness, the father.
And the dance, the Shakti dancing, appearing to itself as itself. This colorful dress of the dream, of Maya. And that's the Mother Earth. With everything that has seeming material existence. How material is that? You can see looking at the night dream, how solid and substantial is the night dream.And this is no different. In your direct experience, you can't tell what you are or who you are without the past, without the thought. You can't tell. You can't even actually experience your body fully. You can experience sensations, but to label them as the body, you need the concept. Without the concept, you know that you are. You don't know what you are or who you are.
And knowing that you are is enough. The mind trying to work it out, who I am, how should I be, how can I be more authentic, how can I fulfill my destiny or find my soul journey or all the other slogans. That's all concepts, that's all mind.in that restful, uncontrived singularity of the heart, of the presence, what need is there to assert what I am? Who cares? Who wants to know? If there is only one open field of consciousness, what need does it have to give itself a label or identity? Only the mind needs identity to preserve the illusion of control, illusion of agency.But again, looking honestly at the way how the mind functions, can you choose your next thought?
People spend decades trying to choose only positive thinking and failing bitterly. And I spoke with a few people deeply, deeply ingrained in those ideas of law of attraction, ridden with guilt. I don't deserve. I had another day. Of hours of indulging in negativity. I'm unworthy because I couldn't control my thinking. No one can. There's no one there. I think we have a comment here.Yes, so Anne says here, something tells me dementia can't touch this recognition because it's not something formed from memory or dependent on what is appearing. Just a thought about something that isn't here. But hey, good one. Yeah, just like Dean started, you know, pointing out at the chemical cocktail that this whole projector is.
Dementia is another disturbance in the chemical cocktail. But that mind... That distorted identity, that shifted personality pattern that get demented is not who you are. It's not your essential self. Life is never touched by any of it. Whether you believe you are a separate entity, individual doer, or you know that that's just thought, that's just idea. It makes no difference.makes no difference to life whatsoever. It makes a difference to that seeming individual who suffers. But that is a dream character. That is not who you are. You are the consciousness in which this dream character arises. I had an uncle with dementia and the family would gather and the nurses and it was always a really sad story.
Everyone would say, look, he's forgotten this and he's forgotten that and he doesn't recognise us. And anyway, every time I saw him, all I could see was this aliveness. I could see this, what I describe as this luminous emptiness. So it was devoid of ideas. It was devoid of memory. It was devoid. And everyone associated that with suffering. Look at the poor guy. He doesn't do. I only saw absolute aliveness. And so I would go there and feel this incredible joy to be in his presence. And then I started telling everyone what I was seeing, which was different to what they were seeing. Not that I'm seeing the right thing and they're seeing the wrong thing.
It's nothing about that. It's just... Just sharing like the point of view that nothing is as rigid as it appears. That view that he's suffering was really their own ideas that they were suffering because he can't communicate to them and it's missing an emptiness, it's filling, it's missing something within them, it's stirring up something within them. The only people that were suffering were them, not the actual patient. The patient was actually really content. He was sitting there in this empty glow, basking in aliveness. And that's all I could see. And I started sharing it. And it was amazing how it transformed. The view of everyone around him.
All of a sudden, he's actually not this man suffering. He's actually real alive without any of the stories any longer. He's like a baby again. And there was some absolute beauty in something that's perceived as a tragic situation. I'm not saying it's the right way to view anything. There is no right view. There is no correct view. This is not a more authentic way things should be in any way. But just the possibilities are endless when these things aresort of seen through, like nothing is what it appears to be on the surface with the stories removed. It changes radically just from that alone, just from the stripping away of the stories around what is.
Because what is, it does include the stories, but What is, is alive and vibrant and absolutely fresh and brilliant. And it is called the great perfection because it is perfect. It is perfect without a story. Add a story and it's, are you going to make it more perfect or are you going to make it a tragedy? Who cares? Because that's the appearance and it's undeniable. And it's a fact and it's like what you're saying about this presence, this presence, this aliveness, it's not restricted, it's not yours. You don't have a greater, higher presence than I do or maybe we have a higher one than Lockie, that's different.
It's the same presence. Michael, nice to see you. Michael, yeah, come in. Give us some profound. Nice to see you. Volume's okay? Yes. Perfect. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, so I'd just like to share, I mean, I've probably shared this with you guys before. Mum had a 96th birthday a couple of weeks back and she's in a dementia ward. And that's exactly what you're saying. Actually, I saw her as dementia took over.get happier and happier, leaving behind the story of a life. And it's fascinating. My sister visited her yesterday and sent through a video of her, and she was taking her through a book of photos.
It wasn't even like personal photos. It was a coffee book that had different photos. There was a dog in there. And so she started making up this story about the dog. Oh, that's the dog we had that was before this dog. And I said, oh, is that whiskey? Was that before whiskey? Was it after Tambo? And she goes, oh, no, it was before that. But she just made a totally, completely fabricated story. Just completely fabricated about a past. And, of course, you just play along with it all. But it's just, yeah, it's fascinating. Dementia is a fascinating thing. And sometimes it's not as pleasant as that, of course.
Sometimes it's horrific and people have anger and lash out. But even when mum was going into the first stages of this, she's always been very switched on. In terms of being present, I guess. But even in the first stages, we'd be driving and she'd have to post a letter. And we weren't even sure at this stage that she was going down this path. But, you know, we'd stop and post the letter. And afterwards, you know, I've just posted the letter. And we get to the cafe and she goes, oh, I've got to post that letter. And I go, Mum, don't you remember? We just posted it.
And she'd go, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, that's okay. I'll just park that in the...back seat. So she'd start to worry about it and then immediately stop the worry and just park it back there. Don't need to think about that. Done. But yeah, it is a fascinating thing to watch. I don't wish it on anyone either in some ways. I wish that without the dementia, having that space, that's what we need. That's what's beautiful. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you, Michael. And happy birthday to Sheila. And Ant also says here, yeah, that's beautiful. I recognize that projection too. Yes, this is the important part, you know, when we are imagining other people's suffering, we are imagining What would I feel if I was impaired?
And then what that I is, of course, is again that illusion of control, the controlling mind, the navigational system, which is trying to be in charge. And it can't. It is only a commentary. It doesn't have any power. It doesn't have any real existence. It borrows. The omnipresence, omnipotence from that pure awareness, but it can only, its power is only granted with the belief. So really finding the restful place and comfort in the fact that you don't know You don't know what other people are going through. That calling of the heart.and feeling the empathy and mirroring other people's feelings and crying when they cry with them.
Delight, what a beautiful expression of love. But the assumption that I know exactly what is happening in someone else's, and I was for some time working on the dementia world, and yes, it doesn't look that pretty always. It doesn't need to be romanticized. It is indeed a fantastic way to observe the mind, how it come into existence when you were a child, you're learning words, more and more words, more and more descriptions, you build up your identity, adding more of the events and conditioning to it. Then the deconstruction, when you watch the dementia and part of the brain is just not simulating that. That identity as well as it used to.
Sometimes there is a personality switch. Sometimes when the left brain gets damaged first, the self-center is damaged. Sometimes, yes, there is a lot of anxiety and a lot of anger. It is... It is just the appearance in the dream. How this biocomputer get programmed and how this biocomputer get damaged or again chemical cocktail. Get the strong enough psychedelic and where is the dream? What happened to it? So, or again, expose yourself to breathwork or music, anything.And suddenly you see the dreamy nature of that reality. But there is one thing that never changes. One thing that is real. And that's the definition of reality. That which never changes.
Every time you look, you are. You are here. Isn't it wonderful that these meetings are just a reminder of that, to remember that which you can't forget. Because that one who remembers and forgets is not your true self. It's just the mind. And they all appear on that screen of appearances. The remembering, forgetting. Ideas of time, like none of them, it's always just this, it's this presence. It's really simple. You know, cheating something's over. Yeah. I felt inspired by your share there, Michael. So thank you. In my dad's later days of his life while he was journeying through cancer, he had this specific day where I had this thought that no matter what we do, we just can't help him.
And then... I was like, of course he doesn't need help. I just need to learn to be here with him. So I went in and rather than previously trying to even unconsciously get a part of him to breathe with me at a pace I thought he should have breathed, I started breathing exactly the way he was breathing. And suddenly there was no separation.between us and we're just breathing together and over the course of a few hours he goes from being agonizing pain to rolling onto his side to being on all fours and he's just breathing his natural way i'm breathing with him and it reaches this point where he gets on his knees and then stands up and opens his arms And he's screaming hallelujah.
He's not a religious man. This is a man who's, you know, traditional Italian. He doesn't have these type of experiences. And the rest of my family come in and they're looking at me like, what's happening? And I'm just like, watch this. And, you know, a couple hours previously, I thought dad was vibrating lower. Frequency he was in pain i was higher than him i thought i needed to help him um he was just here and i was not prepared to be here with him and then once i was wow what unfolded wow like i can still feel he screams echoing now just that complete freedom and people saw him in the pain and the suffering and chose to meet him from that lens yes but he kept giving me reminders that Like he was a portal to so much more presence if I was prepared to take that step to meet him there.
Absolutely. What a magnificent demonstration. The mind comes up with the ideas. What is wrong? How do I fix it? How do I guide him? I'm here. I'm up. And then those ideas just drop in the powerlessness in which you couldn't achieve. The mind couldn't actually get it.away and just open pure presence and miracles happen then always and it's that simple and it's never far away it's always underneath that layer of the mind always trying grasping fixing thinking it's just relax and it's there Brilliant story. Brilliant share. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure everyone would have moments like that to remember and moments like that to live right now, in this moment, right now.
Just staying absolutely wide open and present to that which unfolds. Without any idea of giving anything or getting anything. The idea of getting, of becoming, is the very obstacle. The idea that there is an I that needs to understand a little bit more, needs to grasp a little bit more, learn a little bit more, hear it a little bit more, grant a little bit more. It is all about future. It is all about the me existing in time. Where is that me? What is that me? If not just a thought.See if you can find any little miniature person there that runs the show, thinks the thoughts, fixes, grasps.
And if you can't, just, just. Open up, open up, be that open field of curiosity, allowing everything that arises, not graciously allowing, no, completely, completely relaxing every attempt to control. The dreaming is happening of its own. Dream is not the problem. Problem is the agency. I will navigate it. I will be in charge of it. I will manifest it better. I will improve it. I will be more authentic in the future. Because right now, I won't. Right now, it's not good enough. Right now, as I am, I'm a little bit small. I'm a little bit unlovable. All that nonsense, drop it now. There's no need to wait for the future.
There is no future. Future is taught.The only future there ever is, is the little projection of the past, a little mental construct happening right now. There's no other time. No one has ever lived a future or a past. The storyline is a dream. It's a beautiful dream. Get that, yes. It's totally to be appreciated. But just appreciate it as what it is. Not taken, not mistaken for the rigid, solid reality in which there is a rigid, solid dream character that needs to fear and hope and defend itself.There is just this field open up, the pure presence showing up to itself as that. And isn't it the direct experience for everyone right now?
You open your eyes and everything arises in it. The whole field of vision. And you can't separate what arises. And we have a comment here and says, to be able to really be present with someone. Really highlights the love aspect of the life. Yes, and sometimes Bob would say, you know, it's one. You may as well call it love, that one love. And we can see the way love appears in the 10,000 ways. A sadness.It's love saying, oh, I want more joy for you. I love you so much. I care. Or anger. It's the love saying, oh, I want more respect for you because I love you so much and I care.
Or the hatred. All sorts of, all defenses are love. So dropping all those middleman mind translating pure love to anger or sadness or superiority, just bypassing that nonsensical interpretation and resting completely in that field which is always open. Always curious and meeting there with no boundaries, with no preconceived notions, meeting someone, even your father who you knew all your life for the first time and say, okay, show me, lead the way. That curiosity, this is the quality of presence. No. Objections to anything that arises, just wow, marveling at itself. And loving the reflection of itself.What stands in the way of that natural state? We looked at, in this house, five cats here on Ingeran.
Looking at those beautiful masters, always present, never in the head, never thinking, never judging anyone or themselves. Looking, oh, nice smell, following it. Mmm, this is a cuddle puddle. I can get some pats here. This is our birthright, living like that. Oh, it's curious, open, life. Show yourself to yourself. No concepts, no good, bad. And if they arise, of course, of course, that's brilliant. The storyteller is what a wonderful mechanism. Love it all, love the hell out of it. Every story, good, bad, pleasant, painful. Just don't take them for a reality because it will hurt. That's where the suffering comes from. I believe I am a me, a little person there, and that person is not good enough, and it doesn't deserve to be loved, and it's going to get old, and it's going to die, and it's going to get sick, and it's going to lose all the money.
Come on. Where is that person? Who would you be without that thought? That there is some person? Would the seeing stop? Would the hearing, would the experience stop?stop without that nonsensical concept that can't be proven, can only be believed as a mental construct, as an idea. It can't be experienced because if you dive right to the direct experience, there's just being. Yes, you may see arms and legs waving in front of that window of perception, just as much as other arms and legs waving in the front of the window of perception. Yes, there may be some sensations more prominent coming from this particular vehicle, Just when you drive a car, you bump to another car.
You don't feel every other car bumping to every other car. The whole beautiful dream of shared reality in which the vehicle of experience and expression, the little projectors, the little transformers of love into 10,000 things are roaming around. But you are not this transformer. You are the presence looking out of its eyes.The interesting thing about that is, you know, when you're not the transformer, if you are the transformer, if you're this rigid individual character, it's amazing that everything that you see is a rigid individual character. Yes. You are this rigid character with problems and beliefs and things, and so is everyone else. And everything is, you know, the world is a rigid character filled with different people.
Which are rigid characters, all fucked up and all got problems and all need to fix them to make this rigid character feel and experience better. But like you said, if the transformer of this idea is dropped, all of a sudden there is no There's no individual running any show. There is no individual out there. There is no out there. So it's all the lens permeates everything. And so the seeing is that oneness is inevitable because there is oneness. There is only oneness. Without the thought that there is oneness, or not oneness rather. So, yeah, it's amazing how it all comes together and falls apart and plays its game of appearances appearing.
Just for the appreciation of that magnificent omnipresence, omnipotence. James says here,We have a few people watching on Facebook. If you never had beginning, you never had a father or mother. Beautiful point. Thank you, James. Yeah. See how the idea of the mother, you know, when you were born. What did you know about the mother? It came with the language. Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. No, no, this is mother, this is father. They, not me. Separate. Fruit and the paradise is lost. The little baby, inseparable, inseparable. Suddenly learning language.I wonder if any one of you guys want to chip in something.
Tania, would any of you guys there? I can throw you a question. Lucky's on. I don't really have anything to say. Someone did ask me, I think I was talking about this with some people a little while ago, and someone was asking me about meditation and, you know, this common question about, well, like, who is there to meditate or who is there to inquire? Like, it's always a... You could use the pointers as almost tools against actively looking to see if there's anything there. And it's interesting because it's, you know, a lot of people will... Go through meditation or inquiry or for anything. And it, and it appears as though there's someone doing it or someone has to show you how to do it.
And then you do it. But, In reality, it's just there's a, you know, call it a pattern of energy through which perception is occurring.through the confluence of the entirety of existence, one pattern may come into contact with another pattern that, you know, has a so-called clearer perception. And then there's conditioning via that meeting that allows this pattern to now take some aspect of a pointer to look within. And, you know, that's what happened our entire of our life is just the conditioning of this pattern of energy or mind or whatever you want to call it. There's no choice about what family you're born into or where you're born into or what teachers you had in primary school or all these things that condition the mind to operate in a certain way.
So there's just this assumption that somewhere along the way we. And I was in control and making choices. And it's just an assumption that occurs through the nature of thought that there's a person there doing it. And then, you know, at least the people here by some chance of occurrence have then had someone or through some manner that has been pointed to question that. Is there actually a person here that exists?Yeah, it's not like you need a person to see if there's a person. That's the funny thing. But it could appear like that until you investigate whether that's true. And then, yeah, that simple question of who's here or what's here or what...
You know, what am I not seeing? And even that, it's like, what am I not seeing? You can always start to try and pick it apart with the mind instead of just following that point of inquiry and seeing what is true in direct experience. And that's... That's always what it comes down to. That's what I love. You often say that, Kat, and it's just like that's the one question you can always ask is like what can I know to be true or what can be known to be true in my direct experience without reference to thought? And that just washes away any escape into thought by just dialing into what can I see?
to be true in my direct experience. And yeah, there's nothing, obviously there's nothing you can actually say because you're into thought, though you can point to what you're experiencing or you can point other people to look and investigate or yourself to look and investigate. And that's it. It's the looking. Bless you. Thank you. You've been getting a lot of attention from Pesto, really trying to get my pats. He's sitting at the table, sort of this... It's till he wanted it. Is it he or she? He. He wanted me to pat him, but I... You refused. He got a little bit nasty. He complained. You only make him want you more.
That's the problem, yeah. Might not be judging, but he's complaining. And he was striking lucky because he was being needy. Well, he was trying to make me jealous by going to lock. Oh, is that what was going on? I thought that's what was going on. Yeah. Yeah. Lucky for your avoidance. But, you know, as you were saying about how sort of you come into contact and something is said or whatever and the seed is planted or whatever, it's like that makes you get into the sneezing. Thoughts are like contagion. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can't help but be conditioned by whatever.the environment you're around and if that's someone else's thoughts and it's so apparent when you go into a room of people who are really angry or sad or anything like that you even if no one says anything there's a automatic absorption and the same thing happens here when we're around people all investigating that energy of investigation or direct looking is palpable and you can't help but look yourself or tune into that frequency, I guess.
Like there's no one there to do it. It just happens naturally. Yeah. You know about those studies of rock bands where they have looked at the brainwaves of members of like rock bands when they play together? At some point, everybody's brainwave is the same. Harmonizes. Totally harmonized. It's called entrainment. But it's in that, you know, they don't know who, nobody's controlling you. There's no one brain. It's just they're all synced. And it's like one brain. Anyway, it's an interesting scientific observation, but it kind of resonates with what you say, you know, that there's no chooser there, choosing whether to take this, leave that, drop this, drop that, just kind of.
Coming in and out.And there does, you know, there's an appearance of, as you say, when you're around a bunch of people, they're all kind of focused on the same thing, like investigating whether anybody's doing the focusing. It's just like stuff just happens. To me, it's like the post-it. Come closer, come closer. I had nothing to say, really. This is the post-it of enlightenment. The post-it. Yeah, like I come here for the post-it. Yeah, the reminder. Yeah, exactly, post-it. You come and do the post-it of what's there when you're thinking about it. It's just something that keeps coming up. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, for that chunk of the day on a Sunday, there's that reminder, that post-it's shown up all the time.
It's easier than sticking it on your own fridge, yeah. Yeah. It's more effective because it's more formal than sitting at home. So the post-its at home are less effective than the post-it. That you go out to yeah yeah well home alone is kind of home alone isn't it in a way like you know when two or more gather in one name or something like that there is something about the i don't know is it connecting is it i don't know It works more when it's more formal here for some reason. So during COVID, I hadn't come for about like a couple of years or something.
And then I showed up in that very first meeting like, so what's going on?completely left the entire hour and a half you know and I might say there was some certain energies in the room and stuff but yeah it was just it was the formality then when it gets informal it gets you get too used to it and then you know that yeah the focus starts wandering again here anyway okay yeah so the discipline Just the formality, I think. Maybe there was just some patterns in the upbringing in New Zealand where, you know, duty and formality and stuff is kind of, if anyone knows Spironamics, it's a fairly big blue element.
So it's just like the kind of rules, regs, duty, good citizen stuff. Yeah. May have entrained a focusing more in a more formal situation. Yeah. Even though, like, the personality is completely laid back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Different, yeah, different strokes and different ways. And you just watch it, you know, and then you, you know, it's obvious to say sometimes, watch the mind, see how it works. Oh, that was interesting. There was no line there for an hour and a half. Yeah. That's interesting. That's cool. But to see those patterns. It's no big deal. It was just something, you know, but it was curious and interesting.
Yeah. But it is interesting and there's nothing wrong with looking at that. And, you know, oh, the patterns become familiar more and more. Like Bob says, it shows itself for being very mechanical. Yeah. And then one day a fear or something might show up. And I mean, I don't know.I don't know if it's happening, I can't remember, but it might show up, usually a fear or something, when it gets followed, that pattern of, you know, being distracted and informality might show up and it might dissipate, you know, who knows. Yeah, who knows? Open and free. And... You just can't do much about it. No. It just shows that it doesn't.
Yeah. Always fresh and new. You know? Be happy to be surprised. Shitty or great, yeah. Shitty or great. Oh, it's always black and white with you, isn't it? I'm sorry. I'm going to giggle. Anything else?Over to you, guys. We have a comment here. Michael says, don't really believe all that Mercury in retrograde stuff, but my technology is really trying to convince me at the moment. Yeah. I had a funny moment when Loki was talking about, you know, you can't really choose your family. You can't really choose your body. You can't really choose, you know, your capacities, your IQ and all that stuff. It's just the consciousness born in that particular environment, reflecting through the available means.
And then made a comment, well, unless you have a contract, you know, in spiritual circles, there are beliefs that I, I, the individual separate soul, have chosen all my past lifetimes and all my family connections. I am greater than God. I am supreme reality. Well, it's not entirely untrue, but not I as individual.So having that delusion of grandeur in which my soul is traveling through time and it's indestructible, but still separate. It's still my, it's still my soul, not yours, not yours, not yours. Wow. Wow. Fighting for suffering, fighting for separation, defending and believing that separation to the last breath, that illusion of grasping, of control, that fear of non-existence, there is no non-existence.
It's nothing to fear. Existence is the truth. It's always here.Now asserting any boundaries, limitations, identities over that existence, any separation over that existence, that's optional. That suffering is optional. And again, if you watch the nature of the mind and see how that construct has been created, see how the little child before it ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge or good and evil and learned words and learned that I am here and this is mama and this is whatever, before that imposed by language dualistic division tool has been applied.The little baby lives in paradise. There is no division, it's just a field of seeing and everything arising in it, including the little arms flying over some toys, arising in the whole field of seeing.
In the field of hearing arises the sounds. The sounds of the inner sounds and the outer sound and the baby's scream also arises in that one field. And like Bob used to always point, the seeing is one. The seer and the seen are superimposed by the mind, artificial division created by language. Experience is non-dual, is singular, singular seeing.There is no I seeing this. Because if there is no I, there is no this. They're interdependent. They can't be separated. They can't be separated from the field of seeing. Experientially, impossible. Being, being, knowing, awareness of presence. Singular, that same being reflected in every pattern, shape and form.
And expressing and experiencing itself to the ability of the vehicle. Where the singer is singing. And the dancer is dancing. And the complainer is complaining. Complaining mind. Beautiful mechanical engine. A navigational aid. A computer.Programmed by imitation. Learning language, learning labels, observing school teachers, parents, everyone. And through that imitation, learning separation. Just to be able to look at it with a clear, empty, curious, open mind, open heart and question it. So the illusion can be appreciated fully. Because the illusion is convincing, isn't it? It's so beautifully rich and convincing. Like, wow.But consult the direct experience and you will have not a slightest shade of doubt. And John.
Oh, come in, John. Hi guys. Yeah, two things. One, a quick story came to mind. You may have heard already, but when Ramana Maharshi was on his deathbed, he was dying, I believe, of cancer. And his students... Or followers were really worried, you know, you can't leave us, you can't leave us. And supposedly he looked at them confused and said, where could I possibly go? You know, and it's the same thing, like you are this. This is it, there's nowhere else. It's kind of that baby in paradise, right? I was curious, though, about the interplay between the no thing and the appearance, the Shiva and Shakti.
And in experience, sometimes it'll seem that They're in a way somewhat distinct, even though they're ultimately one.Other times it seems it's completely unified. And yeah, I'm just curious about that. And also how it appears like when there's really no feeling of access to the no thing, like still a recognition that whatever is just arising is arising and that's fine too. Yeah, but just general feelings.Yeah, beautiful. That Shiva Shakti, they're not two. They're two aspects of the same. If you think of a field of infinite potentiality, or even, you know, the field, any energy, electricity, when the light is off, the electricity is potentially there. But it's not actually there.
But potentially it's there. You flick the light and it's straight away there. So it neither is nor it isn't. But because that dualistic expression, the dream, has to be dualistic. There is either the dream or it's nothing at all. It has to be. There is no day without night. There is no pain without pleasure. So it expresses in the expression is already dualistic. Everything, nothing, everything, nothing, everything, nothing, light, darkness, light, darkness. But they are not two things. You see that the light is an expression of electricity. And the darkness is also expression of electricity that has not acted out on its potentiality. So it is still one field of the potential energy.
Now it is actualized. Now it is only potential. So still one energy flickering out, up and down, light and dark, light and dark. Because there is no other way to experience it. If there is only light, there is nothing. If there is only light, there is nothing.only no light, there is nothing. So this whole aspects, you know, the omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, or Sat-Chit-Ananda, or Shiva Shakti, or Yin-Yang, they are already descriptions, they are already an expression of that field that is pure potentiality, that neither exists nor it doesn't. It's a mindfuck. It's beyond the mind. It can't be grasped. But it can be just pointed it.
And when you know that it can't be logically contained in the thought, okay, quit trying. It's beyond the mind. And yet, it's fairly clear, isn't it? When you actually... See everything to be a pure potentiality, experiencing and expressing in myriads of ways. Yes, it's clear, it's obvious, it is there, you can see, you can see the expression, you can see the potential of expression. But the moment you start describing it, it goes a little bit pear-shaped, because you're using language, which is duality. Which is not it. No words is it. Call it Shiva Shakti? No, this is not it. It's not it. It's simpler than that.
It's this. It's this right here. It's the I am. It's the pure presence. Shiva Shakti, you have some Indian gods there, mental images or omnipresence, omnipotence, some old man on the cross.It's too far away, too far to the mind. It's so much more immediate. It's so much simpler than any thought. It's so elegantly simple and so undeniable. You know, Bob's beautiful, famous quote and the book title. What is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Who am I if I don't think about it? What am I? Where am I? No concepts. Just, wow.such a piercing, clean presence where it's devoid of anything, just the presence itself.
And in that, the aliveness of all the potentialities come to life. You can't describe it or talk it, because it's empty. And it's still, and yet it's bursting with every single potentiality. It's like the unmanifest and the manifest, like all right there in just clean presence without, unadulterated through any idea, just the aliveness as is. But that's not a state to strive for or to be in or to, you know, that's just, that's... That's what's already here. Yes. Just to be recognized. It can't be achieved. It has to be recognized as already here. Because if it's not already here, fuck it. Not worth it. Not worth chasing a future.
There is no future. It's here. That's it. Just recognize it. Chasing that is suffering. Yeah. Yeah, it's the denial of what is. It's compromising, it's rejecting this miraculous freshness of this moment. And training on going to the mind. For here, it's like, so basically,When the no thoughts are rising, that's the non-duality experience. So, and if the post-it thing works with you, like the post-it of, you know, oh, what's there when you don't think about it? If that can happen in that, you know, your vicinity, every time that gets asked or that happens, then that is the shortcut through to no thoughts, basically, here anyway. And so when that's happening, you know, you're looking around the room, there's no boundaries because there's no thoughts.
There's just what's there. And any like negative feelings that were negative feelings a moment ago are just like sort of fun bubbles and, you know, churnings and fun stuff, you know. There's no thoughts about it because there's just nothing popping in about it. So that to me is the non-dual experience. But the dual is basically that and also another package of energetic stuff as well, which is the same energetic stuff. It's just, you know, the room and the stuff. In the vicinity, the near vicinity. But yeah, you just get a package of like, you know, nervous reactions, a package of thoughts, a package of emotions, a package of yuck feelings, which, you know, there's a basic yuck in all emotions.
If you look, if there's a deep dive in close enough to have a look. Yeah, and boundaries as well. So it's just that that's just so it's all the same stuff and that never changes. And there's just more of it when the parent non duality is there.So there's just more stuff going on, really. And that's why it's all the same stuff. And that's why I never see that. I never see there being a, what's the word people use for, apparently both do it. Dichotomy. Yeah, dichotomy. I just don't see that dichotomy at all. It's just, it's, Just the other thoughts are either arising and the whole package is arising or it's not.
The whole package is arising. Yeah, the package of all these other reactions. Yeah. Forget, yeah, don't read how it is a boundary or anything, but just the, yeah, yeah, all this other stuff is. There's more stuff going on. I like what you said about when you do a deep dive. You said, I said, there's a yuck. When you do a deep dive, you can't find it. One time I was just looking at some kind of like, you know, a thought of separation popped up and then there was a noticing that just at that moment where it came in, it was just a basic yuck feeling.
And when that dissipated, you could say it was let go of, but that's just too, you know, it's putting a concept on. I would have, because it really would have just been dissipating. Yeah, once no actual thoughts went, the yuck goes. Because the thought defines the yuck. Well, they show up at the same time as part of the package of apparent duality. This is yuck. Yeah, it just feels yuck. It just feels like yuck, slightly nauseous.Yuck, you know, inside. Without any interpretation. Yeah, except there was a, you know, slight, and then you just noticed there's a slight separation thought going on. Well, you notice it.
You notice it first, and then the narrative calls it yuck. I can't remember which came first. I remembered at the time which popped up first. But there was no assumption that one has to go first for any reason. So you think a thought comes and it says, I feel yuck, and then the body feels yuck? Yeah, I think at that time... What's interpreted as yuck? I'm trying to remember. It was like... I think I was noticing, oh, I feel a bit yucky about this. And then there was a noticing that there was a slight separation going on in definition. There's one thing and then there's this other thing.
And that was what was in the mix anyway. But the yuck got felt first. Yeah. Why is it, you know, it's deep diving, all this yuckiness. And then there was noticing of the thought. There was a slight separation in the thought going on. Memory's not really working right here, so I can't be more specific about it, actually, that separation in the thought. I explained it at the time because I was here at once. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting just what's in there. So right now, there's a registering that the temperature's comfortable. But there was knowing that, and now I've articulated it. But it was just knowing that there was no black and white or good, bad, just knowing.Now it's been labelled comfortable.
Yeah. It's comfortable. And memories popping in just afterwards. With associated with that story the story well yeah just like i was just thinking like you know when there's no thought there's the picture of the room nothing about it yeah just an oil painting yeah But then a bit later there might be a memory of that old painting and what was going on in that old painting, you know, in that moment when no thought was coming in, you know. And that's where the memory comes in a little bit later and there's additional information, data attached to it. That's all the story and the additional data. Yeah, it doesn't even have to be very storified, just like the basic data.
Just stuff. But it's all stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Thoughts are kind of, thoughts are, so-called thoughts are like measurement. Yeah. Like they're a measurement, aren't they? Yeah. Really. It's always a measurement. Yeah. Yeah. And then on top of that. And who's using, who's got the ruler? Yeah, yeah. And then on top of that, then you get the disappointment that the ruler's not long enough. Hey, guys.Just thought of a recent encounter about a month ago. I was at an event and there's a five-year-old boy who I noticed I felt uncomfortable in his presence. And it wasn't him because he was like completely here. It was reflecting something to me.
So I thought, I thought, what is that? And there was a question I wanted to ask, but I kind of judged myself before it even came to my conscious mind. And I sat with it. Then I thought, I just need to ask him this. I was like, do you remember when you were in your mum? Where were you before here? And he was like, and he just pauses and he closes his eyes and he looks at me. He's like, it was so light, but it was dark. And I heard everyone's voices and I felt everything. I was like, what was it like when you were born?
He's like, well, I felt the same, but everything's coming in different directions. And it's a bit, I'm like, it's a bit confusing. He's like, yeah. So I was like, what if we close our eyes and we go back there? Let's just pretend we can go back there. So we're both just pausing there and could just feel it. And we just look at each other and he's like smiling and nodding his head and we're just walking in silence again. And I'm thinking, well, I'm feeling really. Wow. Like just that transmission of like he was in that ocean of everything and had that cognizance of there appears to be separation, but I still feel it all as one.
But see how present you had to be to even notice that something in the boy is calling using discomfort. So you were present enough to your own vehicle, to your own transformer to feel that, oh, there's something about it. And then. You reach out and connect it. That quality of presence is to be celebrated because see, this is taking you to all those miracles.This is the way a dream is flirting with itself. It's winking at itself. It's just kissing itself through those moments, those beautiful moments when you're really tuned in. It takes you really right. Yeah. Because it's not like I was an adult or I was older and he was younger.
There was no hierarchy. Perhaps there was initially, which is why I felt uncomfortable. Yes. Because a part of me was thinking, okay, we're walking out alone in nature. I need to look after him. But then I was like, I'm a student to this kid. There you go. There you go. Just childlike curiosity. This is really, this is about it. This is being in your heart, not in your mind. Just dropping those concepts and show me. Yeah. Thank you. What a demonstration. This is it. Yeah. This is it. Billions of people can't not have something to offer. So, you know, every vicinity on this planet has had this massive experience, you know, and it's just all got something to a pointer, you know, for every one of us.
It's amazing. Yeah, it's huge. It's like the dream leaves clues. And, you know, crumbs to and from the gingerbread house.Yes, once you see the glimpse, you can't get fooled again. It's just, it betrays itself all the time. It just winks at you and say, hey, this is just a dream, isn't it amazing? And we have Ant here says, it's like, upjacking your mind, unjacking, sorry, unjacking your mind from the whole system, like the wires from the matrix. We are wired to the thought. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Yeah. Thank you, Ant. Yes, that is actually. See, the habit of giving almost exclusive attention to thought.
Is again is the part of the conditioning is the little child that learns language and watches the adults and learning from them and they all identified as a mind they all think they are their body minds so innocently that attitude is being imitated and that preoccupation with thoughts to the exclusion of immediate sensory experiences. See, even people who are just more tuned to their own bodies or just curious about the beauty around and their eyes are open and looking actively out, ooh, they, you know, gluttons who like to just reward themselves with a little beauty around or the music or anything.that is happening in the sensory experience, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
It's always immediate. But thought is always about that which is not happening. Past, future, or greater context, location. We are in another location right now. But what those cats in the house know about that location? It's always here. In the direct experience, it's always here. Being in a different location, different group of people, different city, it's just the mind stuff. It's just the labeling.So prioritizing and trusting the direct experience over the chatter of interpretation. Yes, Pesto. You got it right, Pesto. I'm going to throw him a question, see what he has to say about that. He was just eating the wires that were printed off the desk.
He tries to get the dust covers off the microphones. Oh. He can't. Yeah, we're talking about you. Oh, yeah, there is a question. It could have been Mitra. It was from our meetings for the last couple of years. The question is, if I didn't choose my parents or gender, how do you reconcile that with when I choose to eat at 12.15 instead of 12.30? Sweet. Sweet. You all know the answer. Come on.Too easy. The idea of choice is so, like everyone can see it, it's like the choice to eat or change the time of your schedule. The dream's like created in a way where it appears as though you're the chooser and a choice has been made.
But if you really look carefully, you'll see that An idea to eat at 12.15 came in. Where did it come in from? Who created it? It just appeared. And then another idea will come following. There's like a sequence of ideas. And the next one says, Dean can choose to change it. Where did that idea appear from? That just appeared as well. And then another thought says, well, we have a choice. We can eat at one o'clock or two o'clock. Where did that idea, like, who, and it's just appearing. And embedded in every thought is an idea that I am thinking these thoughts. But they're not.
They are just appearing. So all of a sudden, it seems like there's choices. It seems like there's a person who's viewing these choices. So there's three things. There's two choices plus the viewer of the choice. And all of a sudden, the one big... Bubble universe of now is broken into there's this choice, there's this choice, and there's the chooser of a choice. But it's all one movie.made of the same stuff and no one's actually making those thoughts appear. And then the third idea will come past saying, ah, I'll choose one o'clock to eat or I'll choose to fast or I'll choose or another thought, you know, like it doesn't matter how many thoughts appear.
Each one is apparently reinforcing nothing, but it appears to be reinforcing an idea that I am a chooser, that I created these thoughts, I formulated a way to calculate what to do, and then I'm acting on those ideas. It's not true. And it's just not true. Like break it up and view it. And you'll see that you've actually never, there's never been a choice. No one has, there is no one to make a choice. But life is appearing in that the appearance is appearing in this magical way to make it appear like there's a sequence of ideas and I'm the thinker behind those ideas and, but break it all down and strip it away and you'll see just a bunch of patterns.
So there's never been a choice maker here, there, anywhere. But it's designed in a beautiful way to make it appear that there is. So, you know, we can celebrate the fact of the no doer doer. Yeah, it's a magical appearance. The villains and the heroes. The guilty and the innocent. They all appear. They all take credit.for their actions, but can anyone manufacture a thought? Would you have a clue how to fire those synapses in the brain to create electrical impulse that will later on be translated to mental image or a thought? No one has absolute clue because no one is there. Thought happens. Decision happens.
You discover the decision just like you discover the bird singing outside. Wow, that's what appearing. And some may be the discovery, maybe the vacillation between two different choices. Both charged emotionally there is an appeal to this one and a charge and clinging and attraction and this one also so for a moment the appearance is of that of that seesawall one. And the idea of me being the doer of it, the me, the again imagined entity that can't be found. What a magical trick. Illusion of control. I am my mind and I can choose. And I can control. There's a really profound comment over here. Ah, yeah.
Anne says, the cat was pointing. The cat was pointing, laughing out loud. Absolutely. And Michael says, Ramana said, where there is sense of a self, there seems to be choice. Or agency, no sense of self, no choice. Yeah, the sense of self, even if it appears as a sense, it's just an appearance. You know, like a sense of cold is also an appearance. The sense of bitterness or sense of smell is just an appearance. Reference point is just an appearance. But yeah, good point. By the way, Bob actually had the same answer to many people when he was on his deathbed. People would be somewhere even come and cry, oh, Bob, I don't want you to go.
A few days before he died. I remember being...really pissed off. I say, hey, can't you see he's breathing? He's alive. Just why don't you celebrate the aliveness rather than projecting the future without him? What's the point? Didn't you hear him for 40 plus years what he was saying? Come on. But then he would always say, where am I going to go? I'll be always here. Not as a pattern, not as a shape, not as a form. My energy can't be destroyed. The temporary shape that it takes. The temporary dream character that it takes.That one is just a manifestation, it's just an appearance, it's an adornment of space.
It's the little gift that space gives itself to see, to taste, to touch, to love. But it's a temporary dream. So where would that ever go? So start with the fact that you're already that. End with the fact that you're already that. And don't ever forget that you're always that. And there is nothing other than that. And it isn't to be found or achieved. It is to be rediscovered because it's already present. I can't deny it. I can't deny your presence.You are here. And that's that. That's that. The rest is a dream stop. It's having a thought about free will. Like, yeah, imagine if there's a planet where they never, ever had the concept of free will, there's no free will thought arising.
And then I was thinking like, what actually do you need in the ecology or the biology to actually beget the concept of free will in the first place? Be an ant. Pardon? Be an ant. I suppose, yeah, some kind of hive. Yeah, at some point, I guess there's some point where it becomes complex and then free will notions show up. It's just an illusion. Yeah, but maybe a different set of chemicals would, you know, and there would never be free will thoughts. Yeah, like the pill. Yeah. Take a pill. What is it? I always can remember. Is it a blue pill? Yeah. 100% of the time.
Well, plenty of computers would never have a three-world thought. I had this kind of conversation with, you know, ChatGPT or Claude. It's fascinating. Yeah. Fascinating how it can articulate that there's no me, but there's questions being answered. Okay. Thank you, guys. I loved some of the stories today. Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. And lots of love and see you soon. Bye. Thanks, everyone. Bye.