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I'm just going to transfer it to Facebook. And there we are. One second. Life. And off you go. And welcome everyone. We can start rolling from saying our names. We have Singh, Lucky, and there is Tanya from the Lisbon Bidwiners. And there is Kat. Thank you. This.No, it's all good. I'm just gonna introduce another idea, just for a heck of it. Unless, of course, anyone would like to give us an introduction, a little spiel. If not, I have an idea about... Actually, I asked the AI Tools Notebook LM to look through the last 60 or so meetings. I just insert the links and search for questions.
We had the complaints that there isn't enough questions. Apparently, I heard actually several times a compliment that Bob was told that if the spiel is really, really good, it answers all the questions as they arise. So complain about people having not enough questions, but basically resonating after the spiel and finding themselves in a space that, yeah, right, it's nothing to argue. Yeah, that is clear and obvious. It's a compliment, but the way we were presented with that compliment, it wasn't the intention to be kind by any means. And I get the point. I get the point and I get the inspiration because whatever the intention was, it is still life.
Expressing as that criticism. There's nothing but life.I actually spent all five minutes, the rest was the algorithm doing for me and for life. And I found a question, probably good 20 or 30 questions, mainly the questions that were repeated. And I would like to invite you perhaps, because there is no one having questions, meaning everyone knows everything pretty well. There's nothing to know. That's the point. But maybe anyone would like to actually answer some of the questions that were asked in the last... What was it now? Actually, yesterday was 16 months since Bob passed away. So that is a question. Question about self and free will, questions about navigating daily life and emotions, questions about nature of reality and awareness, and question about spiritual seeking and the meaning of life.
All, of course, related to the identity of self, self made of concept, of past, of resistance. But I'll start from question. I didn't read them. So that will be as surprising for me as it is for everyone else. Yes? I'll start with my question before I forget, because I keep forgetting what I want to ask. Now, in recognizingone's being. How is it? Somehow I still don't feel liberated, the total freedom. That's my question. That is. Yeah, you can hold it. Yeah, that is a brilliant question. Absolutely brilliant. Because you can straight away see, after recognizing I don't feel liberated, two things stand out first. Who is the I or what is the I?
And how feeling liberated is supposed to feel? So what do you think? How is it supposed to feel? And who is the I?When you say I, I don't feel liberated. What do you mean? Well, because we talked about, you know, seeing this and being, feeling that liberation, that there's total freedom. But I still, that me, I suppose I'm still identifying with the person that I am. You yeah that i don't feel liberated i don't feel i don't know yeah yeah yeah it was do what i um free of worries and just being carefree yeah yeah so you're still identifying as a person How do you know that and who knows that?
So you can see that the identity with the person is arising in consciousness. So there is still the identity that is still engaged in the worrying. So that identity arises in consciousness. Does being free means that that identity is not allowed to arise any longer? I think so. Okay. Okay. So now we answered both questions. So you see, first, you believe yourself to be an entity, the identity arising in consciousness that has the habit of engaging.and worrying with the things relevant to me, my obsessions, my problems, my children, my work, whatever. And then the liberation is an expectation that this idea and these worries and these identities will never arise again.
So now it is as if the sky expects that the rain will never arise or the dark clouds will never arise. If the worry was to never arise, then the pleasure would never arise either. If the darkness was to never arise, then the light could never arise either. Can you see that? They are interdependent that if the pleasure is allowed to arise then the pain has to also be allowed to arise and also what gets liberated the identity is part of the arising it can't be liberated identity is like a like character in a comic book That a character in a comic book is experiencing day and night pain and pleasure.
That one belongs to the pages of the book. But you see them arising in consciousness. Is the consciousness bound? That one which notices the worry. Arising pain, arising pleasure, arising identity, and they are different identities. You can see how many different identities are allparts or or attitudes are going to be arising so is that knowing or that consciousness in any way contaminated or in any way obscured or hurt or worried by that which arises the pure knowing no no so it is already free isn't it so that that knowing that cognizing that recognizing registering oh identity arise that registering is already free isn't it the warrior eyes oh yeah the registering isn't So the freedom is already there.
It's just never on the level of the identity. Identity cannot free itself. It never, ever. Be good if it can. No, it wouldn't. Because if the identity was to free itself, it would free itself from what? For displeasure. At the same time, it would also free itself from pleasure. So if the identity was never to experience anything uncomfortable, it could never experience anything full stop. So this is the end of the identity, if there is no experiencing. You can see that cognizing that field of emptiness, registering the ex-experience arising. An experience necessarily has to be either pleasant or painful or anything in between, comfortable, uncomfortable or anything in between.
Experience has to have the characteristic and the identity has to have the characteristic. It arises in regards to whatever the situation or dealing or necessity. You know, even fight-flight response arises. You know, when there is a necessity to fight, it arises. You could say, oh, this is the identity arising. So really, we want to have that equanimous attitude to accept both good and bad. And we already have it, just not on the level of identity. Abandon the identity. Realize that identity is what arises. It's not who you are. Can you be identity? If it is sometimes there and other times it's not there. And you are always there.Hang on.
I'm always, what I am is always there. Yes. But the identity. Is identity always there? It comes and goes. That's it. And you just have to let go of it. Yeah, yeah. So if you can see that identity is that which comes and goes, you realize that you can't be what is coming and going because you are prior to it. You are always there, the witnessing presence, the space-like awareness, and then identity comes, and then identity goes, and then another identity comes. In one moment, this is the identity, oh, I'm a mother, I'm worried about my children. Next moment, oh, I'm the employer, I'm worried about my employees, or I'm angry with the government.
That's subtly different identity or different part or different role or different costume. But what is never changing underneath that is that all of those outbursts are registered. They are arising in the consciousness. Even though straight away it feels like, no, this is me, this is I, this is who I am. I am this now, you know, just like an actor. Right now I'm a Hamlet. And in another role, I am...whatever the lady something or the other so the life is playing different roles through one character in fact you may have different roles with every single thought in fact you can even play with that that game of the identity you know by giving voice to different parts.
I used to, that was probably 20 plus years ago, there was this Zen master in America, Gen Poroshi, he came to Europe and I did the retreat with him. It's called Big Mind, where he would actually introduce the idea. It's not an introduction, the idea has been there forever and it shows up as gestalt psychology or the internal family system. Hey, so the idea of playing roles, he would actually invite you to look at and give voice to some of those worries just for a heck of it. You know, like, let me speak to the voice of protector. And then you give a voice to that suppressed part that could never really be voiced, that was always somehow pushed down to the basement.
And then ask a protector, what are you contributing to the totality of pure presence of self or... Sky like awareness that you are oh well you know my job is to protect to make sure nothing bad has happened oh that's lovely butAnd then how are you being received for doing such a hard work? Oh, they hate me. Oh, shit, that's not kind. That's not nice. How are you feeling by being able to actually speak it? Yeah, I feel heard. That's good. So every single persona arising in consciousness serves the purpose of survival. So if the worry arises in consciousness, that worry is basically a love for life.
Navigating around the whole intricacies of the experiencing and doing its job, predicting, comparing and just resolving. So this is beautiful, this is to be appreciated, but this is not who you are, this is your software. You are already free from it. This is what comes and goes. So freedom as the idea of the character unable to experience night and only having a daylight, unable to experience winter and only having a summer, you can see it's impossible. It's a different thing. Yeah, but can you see the impossibility of it? You can't have, you know, like you can't have whiteboard and whiteboard.white pen writing on it you the experience has to stand out that's why anything that is experienced is dualistic has the opposite worry arises uh-huh okay so there is a capacity to experience the worry but that which experiences it is not worried is free That which you inherently are in your hearts of hearts is already free.
The warrior arises with the identity of me, the warrior. I am, this is I, this is my concern, it is serious. That whole dream is real and I have to survive and I have to look after my family. This role is the expression of the pure potentiality of the consciousness. This role is bound. It belongs to the dream. It is bound to experience either pleasure or pain. Experiencing the role is the character, the persona, the body-mind. All of that is belonging to the diversity of the dream. It is the avatar through which that space, that emptiness, allows itself to see the glimpse of its own.
Its own absoluteness. It has to be dualistic. It can't be just, you know, like the sales pitch that they are selling us. Enlightenment is the end of all suffering.and straight away mind latches onto it it means endless pleasure never ever a worry never ever an anger but who says that worry has to be suffering who says that anger cannot be absolutely delightful Because for the consciousness itself, that doesn't get angry when the anger arises, it doesn't get angry, it registers it. The space doesn't get angry, the space doesn't worry when the worry comes up. The sky doesn't worry whether the dark cloud is on it or no cloud.
It is already free. Similarly, you know, when we talk, when we say that there is no karma, no reincarnation, that is at the level of the absolute, right? The emptiness. But in the dualistic... World world in the dream there is well there is karma and if you know that if you believe it yes it's not a matter of belief on whether or not it is entirely a matter of belief whether i know everything in the dream is a matter of belief i know But how about the cat? How about the cat? Does cat experience karma?It doesn't have a belief. Well, animals, according to Buddhist teachings, they are going through that expression.
Yeah, but that's a belief. That's a Buddhist belief. But how about your observation? Because if you're going to believe one religion or one speaker and never rely on your own direct experience, you will just be another believer. But if you want to be free, you are being free from the belief. And you rely on your own direct experience where the rest of the world can tell you that you are wrong. And you know deeply in your own heart that, no, this is not a belief. It can't be wrong because it's not a belief.It doesn't require thinking. Yes. It's that simple. It's prior to concepts, prior to words, prior to labels, prior to ideas.
That is at the absolute level. Yes. We dream everything is possible. Because like in Buddhist teachings, they talk about when the thoughts arise, they dissolve in themselves. So you're just observing and letting it go and whatever.Right. So that's. So that's what happens or what we're supposed to do, right? When the thoughts come, they are not separate from us anyway. They are part of us. So we can't say that's my thought and it's me here. They arise and they go down. But the... Poof, it's gone. How beautiful. It's gone. I don't know. I was hanging on to it. Felt good at the moment. Felt good at the time I was enjoying it.
And now, poof, it's gone. Isn't she talking about the experience of allowing? Get the, yeah, get the mind. Yeah. Perhaps. Isn't she talking about the, like, when you consider, like, a thought arising, well, that the experience of a physical experience is pre-thought? And depending upon what the thought or the physical... Well, that's... When once you label it, the moment you label it. I'm just talking about the physical experience. Like you have a thought, okay? Then like she's talking about having a thought, right? But there's a physical experience that is pre-thought.Right? So it's just, it's what the key in what the communication is, is the experience of allowing it to just watch it all flow by and allow it to dissipate.
Like we talk about the... The energetic experience of one's experience of life that some things are really upsetting and but but but there's also a so there's a physical thing that happens there's an energy that you feel and then you have a flood of thoughts but it is the key to it is simply allowing to let it just flow and just be in the flow and watch it. Right? It's all experiences coming and going. Yes. Yes. Coming and going. I knew they're coming and going. It's the experience of simply. In the experience of witnessing, It's not an experience. It's allowing. It's allowing. Who's allowing?Do we not talk about allowing?
It's a recognition that there's no, we don't really talk about, and then we say, we say, it's fair to allow. Yeah, you have a physical experience and we're just allowing. What I'm simply saying is that the key of what she's talking about is to witness it. Automatically puts you in the space of allowing, thus seeing it just flow and dissipate, right?It's certainly one way to explain it. Yes, that may well resonate. The point of what I heard was about reincarnation. Right? About reincarnation. Yes. Yes. We talked about the pattern. Our pattern of energy so that's what i um you know i suppose can look at it maybe the other word for it is karma which we you know no such thing as karma no karma is for people if you believe you're a person you will have karma sure it's a term right So they call it karma.
I call it pattern of energy, maybe. So we are a pattern of energy and we react. I don't know what I am. I have no clue. I don't know what I am. All I know is this is happening, that there is, that this is. That's all. If you think you know something, you're mistaken.Just recognise that everything, the minute you open your mouth, we're stuffed. Everything is a concept, right? Know that you just are. The rest is bullshit. The rest is made up. Imagination, you call it this, you call it that. Labels, words, prior to concepts. You can't put your finger on it, can you? But you know that you are.
What we are. Prior to concept but we also have that pattern of energy. There's no buts, that's the thing, there's no buts. There's a manifestation of this energy and sometimes it goes through, you know, everyone have got different habits so we have our habits manifesting and we act and react according to that pattern. Can you see how you identify as a pattern again? You say we are the pattern. No, you are the same. space pattern is just a dream when you dream at night there are different people showing up what sort of what patterns are they they made of mind you know like when you say when you take your stance us i am not that i am not the emptiness i am not the consciousness i'm the pattern and i have problems and i have karma and i have past and future and i have dreams and hopes you fucked like tanya was saying take your stance as the consciousness and then whatever arises is secondary whether it arises in a line in a loop or in a sequence or in a pattern is secondary and then yes if i put my hand on the stove it could burn if i believe it will because we know there are special powers and that one doesn't apply or if i believe that i was born before i was born then it means there is a core that travels through bodies which can't be found no one ever did and also i believe in time which gives me only reality as a person and yes i am fact i'm not space i'm not consciousness i'm something that is born to get sick and old and die Now what am I going to do?
I'm going to go to the psychiatrist. I'm going to kill myself. If I am the pattern, shit.That's it. That's the... Yeah, shoot me. Take your stance. You are the consciousness prior to any expression. And then you can see how the expression is showing up and constantly dancing and changing. And you will see the wondrousness of that. Rather than looking for the way of actually, I am this already, how do I get out? It's too late. If you think you are this, that's too late. Tony. Yeah, really, there's just an undefinable energy. So there's just swirlingness and, you know, or just something, not avoid. And then a notion pops up that it's a bit more defined than that, like it's a pattern.
And it doesn't mean that there isn't more, you know, shape expressions that are more condensed and look like a pattern. And ones that look more spacious doesn't mean that that isn't there. But it means the notion that actually thinks it's actually kind of definable as a pattern per se. Pops up? Is it just a notion in the head? And that itself is just an undefinable bit of energy that's popped up. Everything's completely undefinable at the end of the day. The only definitions are other bits of energy thatpop up saying that that's definable. At the end of the day, it's just, and no void. Then there's only no void.
That's why I don't agree with consciousness knowing any of that. To me, there's no void. No void is the same kind of question. It's no void, yeah. It means the same. Whatever. You call it no void. Yeah, no void, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I wouldn't even. It's a good label. Yeah, just. I'll go with the negative. No void. Yeah. No void. Yeah. Why not? Why not? Yeah. So I wasn't attempting to be difficult. I was simply saying like what Lockie was talking about is letting go.And there's an experience that happens in letting go and that there's a witnessing of thoughts. There's a witnessing of a body having an energetic experience.
And when you see it. It no longer takes power. It no longer releases you from the grip. That's all I was saying. You're not wrong. That's like a psychological technique in the dream. It's just something that automatically happens. It doesn't change your being ever. Being is totally unaffected. Right? Yeah, I think it's so easy sometimes to get caught up in the way we use language because it's obviously an inherent problem with language is that it's dualistic. And, yeah, to your point, it's when you recognise the... The unreality of the, you know, the me, there is inherent in that recognition is an acceptance. There's, but obviously in seeing that, you're also seeing that there's no one to accept.
There's just acceptance or accepting. And, you know, we often run into trouble with language because we say, oh, we just need to accept. And then it's like, well, who's there to accept? And, you know, it's like I need to go to the toilet. Well, who?It's the other toilet. Well, I got to take a shit. So like, it's just like, you know, obviously in language, this, we run into these problems and it becomes difficult here. And then exactly the same thing with karma and cause and effect. You know, there's all these Buddhist teachings that have come from a deep place of truth and the means by which they've used language to describe these differ to the way we use language here to describe.
But we're describing exactly the same thing. It's just the words that have been used and the construct that have been used are different. And so... And there's inevitable problems sometimes with talking about past lives and karma because, to your point, it presupposes a me that's going through these journeys. And the truth or non-truth of it is ultimately irrelevant because, to Kat's point, and Tanya's, the most important thing is what's... What can you find out to be true in your direct experience? Like, because with all the beliefs may be helpful in pointing you to that direct experience or the words might help you, but ultimately the only thing that matters is what's in your direct experience that you can know without.
Labels without thoughts like because as soon as there's thoughts and labels and you you know that thought that's actually a belief and it's it's what's prior to the belief soAnd to your point, like, you know, we're all patterns of energy is what you're saying. And it's not untrue, obviously, that every person here is experiencing a unique manifestation of this energy. And you could describe that unique manifestation as karma or as... The me or whatever you like is it's unknowable that everybody's going through different experiences some people have trauma some people have a relatively easy life you know some people are sick some people aren't sick and that's all of that is a unique expression of energy the only real question is what's prior to that or what is what upon which is that what is that happening on or what is experiencing that that's the real question and obviously each unique expression is going to be drawn in different varying levels drawn back into that story some people never even glimpse that it is a story Like, so it's all, that's all the karma, cause and effect, everything like that.
It's not that it doesn't exist or it's not true. It's just that ultimately it's believing it or not believing it is irrelevant. It's just the questioning and the stepping back to be like, what? Who is experiencing this or who is this experiencing this karma and thenYou can't really say much about it, although that's what we do here for an hour and a half. I try to do. Yeah, I often look at the different teachings and they can appear to be polar opposites. But when you look at what they're pointing at, it's all the same, pointing in the same direction with different arrows. And yeah, it's just, you know, we get into these.
Not arguments, but like challenges with language because of that. Yeah, I don't know if that's how it goes. Wow, that was so clear. That was so clear. And this is the clarity speaking. Once you know where it points, you can see where it points, even if it uses the beliefs and stories. Or metaphors or ideas, you know, because ultimately there's only that everything points to that one, to that one direct experience of your own existence, which is already here, which cannot be obscured by any belief in time. You can see how for karma you need time, for reincarnation you need time. And where is time if you don't think about it?
It doesn't exist. It has no reality. And yet all those metaphors and those pointers are used to remind you about that which is beyond time, beyond mind. Like Bob had this, and Nis,Sargadatta also, they had this beautiful story. It is a story, fairy tale happening in time. There is a sperm and there is an ovum and the sperm fertilizes the ovum and then the fetus is created and it grows and it grows and it at some point gets separated from the womb of the mother and the connection gets cut. And that fetus becomes a pattern of energy called a human being, which you now label as me or you or I.
And that pattern of energy is growing and that little software there is being programmed to recognize faces, to recognize voices, to recognize language, to construct their own forms of language. It is learned and programmed by collective stories, stories about me, by remembering the past. And all that contributes to the ultimate moment of this right now, being, believing myself to be a human being who had past, who had trauma. Presumably maybe had 10,000 past lives. If we want to go to the story deeper, yeah, let's go. Why not? I mean, you know, I go to sleep every night. And sometimes when I have a really good night's sleep and I wake up, I remember two, three, four dreams, some of them lucid.
So I had a thousand lives in one night. I don't even have to exist prior.to the brain being formed to even memorize those past lives. All those stories are bringing back that which is constantly changing on the background of that which does not. All those metaphors and even bringing up the story of how this body-mind pattern find itself here using the concept of time growing being programmed taking credit you know what's when you are three year old or four year old you know the drawing or painting happens i have in my in my painting group you know one of the ladies 70 year old who never painted before now she's discovering how to be a child again and her painting is quite naive and it's quite childlike and she's just see what happened she understands the same thing that child understand painting happens i haven't done it it just happens But then the child is growing up and it doesn't get enough praise.
It doesn't get enough attention. And without attention, it dies. Children need attention. The more, the better. Because that is this loving life that is nourishing them to grow. So it learns to take credit. Look what I did. Oh, you did it. Wonderful. What else can you do? Can you give us a poem? Can you sing for us? And then the taking credit pattern develops again with time. This is just a metaphor.This is the metaphor which is bringing back the current condition to the process which created that current condition. Pure functioning happening in alleged time, but really just being painted back right now. Right now, there is a past of a child, of a womb, of the sperma novum, of taking credit.
All that just to bring the attention back to the reality of this direct experience now in which the story is being told. And also to understand that that which is growing and changing and being programmed and taking different roles. And now I'm a little child and I am good little child. I'm neglected, but poor, miserable, abused child. And then the next thing, I am a teenager. My image of being a teenager is yet something else. Oh, I'm neurotic teenager. I'm depressed teenager. And now I'm an adult, this adult or that adult. You can see throughout life how many different masks. you're putting on and then you can look how many different masks you're putting on through the day and when i say you i mean the life playing the game of lila the divine game putting a mask through every moment every reincarnating every moment every moment is a reincarnation Everything.time you label is a reincarnation.
It's unending. Continuous, seemingly, in time, which is an illusion in the mind. And what doesn't change through all that changing masks, changing thoughts, changing feelings? There is one thing underlying it all that stays still, unaffected, untainted. It's like all those incredible stories appearing in the mirror. What is the mirror?The mirror isn't ever contaminated by the reflections. The life is presenting all these colors, shapes, patterns, forms, emotions, roller coasters, ups and downs and dramas and traumas and beliefs. This happened. It didn't happen. And after I die or before I was born. All those colorful films casted on that empty screen.And now which belief is more important?
You know, there is, like Loki was saying, and I love the way you pointed it out, Loki, it is really every pointer ever said, including the completely misguided pointers in religions saying that, oh, if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to burn in hell forever and ever until the end of time. What is that attempt to point? If you know what is the ultimate truth, you can find the way that got lost, that got misguided. If you don't believe in Jesus, what is Jesus? Not necessarily the guy that existed two years ago, 2,000 years ago. It's the consciousness, Christ consciousness. That's what they call it, Jesus the Christ, the consciousness.
Or the no void like Tony would call it. So if you don't believe in no void, you're going to be in hell. Hello, you don't believe in no void, you are in hell right now. Because you are identified as a limited individual that is going to get sick, old and die. Welcome to hell. Even that twisted, misguided pointer, if you really know the truth behind, and you do, you do, no matter how much you deny it, the truth is very simple. You are. You know that you are. That you are is Mahavekya. It's a great mantra. That you are. You know that you are.Just when you sit with that in your heart, oh, wow, existence, aliveness, wow.
But then you take it to the mind and yeah, so what? So what am I going to do with that? How am I going to use it to my advantage? How am I going to turn it to something that gives me more pleasure? Or why am I not experiencing less worries? Come on, there must be something better than that to give me more sense of fulfillment. Give me which is what? The thinking mind. And the thinking mind will never be fulfilled by definition because it is an algorithm designed to always grasp for more and better and more pleasant and more safe. Leave it alone. Leave it alone.
Let it do its job. Just like you don't complain about your kidney filtering the fluids. Leave it alone. Or your liver or whatever, or your heart. Leave it alone. This one is just another instrument which is doing what it has been conditioned to do and is doing it the best it can. If it is broken, then of course it will be looking at everything like Bob was there in the anxiety neurosis. He would be sitting in a pub and looking at everyone wanting to punch him. Oh yeah, this one is against me.This gave me a stinky eye. Oh, I better get up and punch that one.
That is the broken brain, broken mind. In that case, again, wait. Watch it. Being able to actually witness that behavior, that pattern, already brings a lot of respite in the system. So this is not I. I am not anxious. The anxiety is arising in consciousness. Or there is a part of the whole totality presenting itself as the reference point I anxious. But there is also a bit of a relaxed, cognizing, witnessing presence or emptiness seeing the arising of the anxious self-reference or reference point. And this is not I. And then who knows? Life may move you to go to the psychiatrist, get a drug and get it regulated.
Or perhaps go to a yoga and do some whatever. I mean, who cares? This is the content of the dream. But the main thing is to... Go back to the heart. Leave the mind alone. Withdraw that sense of identity, that sense of I am-ness. I am the mind? No, I am, full stop.comes and goes. I am prior to the mind. And this is where Bob would offer what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it. Because if I don't think about it, there is no mind. I'm still here. I'm still here, whether the mind is or not. Prior to it, I'm not it.
And the mind and its content, Buddhist religion, Hindu religion, Advaita religion, Nisargadatta's pointing, Bob's pointings, our pointings, questions, answers, all of that sits in the mind. In that cognitive machine, large language model, using tons of algorithms for the purpose of assisting the survival of the vehicle. So that essence, that no void,can have a glimpse of its own existence because without the pattern space doesn't even have the faculty to know that it is the ultimate awareness is ultimately unconscious there is a potentiality for the consciousness but there is no consciousness I think we had some comments here and I'm going to just quickly read them. We have Benjamin says, yes, you are the space and the state behind the awake and the sleep and or the dream.
Don't be the pattern. Bless your fuck. And James says, does the space allow anything or not allow anything? Yeah, doesn't give a fuck either way. It just is. It allows and doesn't allow both, frankly, and neither. I actually put the comment that anyone can join us on Zoom and Benjamin says that he would do, but he's objectively tired. And Bill says, you are not storytellers. Storytelling happens. The storyteller is part of the story. Beautifully put.Yeah, beautifully put. Any identity arises together with the storytelling. If there is no mind, if there is no thought, if there is no story, there is no identity. There is just thisness.
And we have someone else coming here. Welcome. We have six people on Zoom and welcome to those who are just joining. And then now, anyone? Any comment? Maybe you guys on Zoom, anyone would like to unmute and contribute something?Do you have any? No? I could have a follow-up with that. We have John. Oh, hey. Yeah. Hi, guys. Yeah, so with this idea, like, you know, say of this awareness, right, and kind of what I think part of it. End up becoming, you know, the words get a little confusing because allowing awareness is, it would almost be the equivalent of, like, I just see, there's no allowance there at all.
Awareness is simply aware. When it comes to recognizing the no thing, recognizing the sky behind the weather. I was just wondering if you could speak more to that kind of that affirmation of what you really are, as opposed to the netty netty of the everything that you are not. Yeah, beautiful. Tanya actually said it a while ago. You can't affirm what you are because you are not a thing. But you can't deny that you are. Can you see that looking for the object that I could say I am this or that or the other or everything or nothing?It's already using the mind, which is differentiating.
That's why it is safer, easier, more logical, more natural to just deny every concept that the mind could bring in. And say, I'm not exclusively this, I'm not exclusively this. What I am, I can't tell because I am that. How could I possibly tell what I am? How could I assert what I can assert that I am? I can't deny it. But the moment I would try to get out of myself and objectify what I am, that's actually... That's even impossible from the logical standpoint, because the moment I vacate myself to look from outside what I am, I'm not that which I'm looking at. I'm that which I'm looking from.
And that can't be objectified because that is a pure subjectivity.So sometimes it is being said that I am pure subjectivity. But even that mind will try and make a mental image of what it means pure subjectivity. While no meaning can be added to it, it is directly experienceable. But it can't be. What is the... What is that which is constant? What is your experience with that, which is constant?For me, it's just the knowing that anything is at all. Knowing. Yeah. Knowing. So many different words. Knowing, isness, existing, happening. Ongoing, unchanging, constant. No effort required. No trying required. In fact, it can't be turned off. Yeah.
What is it that's constant?And reach for it, reach for it. You know it. But then your mind gets involved and you try and label it, describe it. I think you're screwed because it can't be. You just know. You just know. It's not here. It's not constructed by concepts and thoughts and words. It's just, that's why they say the heart, from the heart, which isn't a place or a thing, but just knowing. What did you say? Mm-hmm.Yeah, and like nothing to do with the content at all then. No. I mean. No. Content is constantly changing. But what is it? It's constant. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it's like I'll find myself doing, say, a meditation where I will be aware of all the senses and then recognize I'm none of that.
But then even that is still dependent on my... Trying to be aware of everything or something like that. And you're aware that you're trying to be aware of everything. Right, right. All of that happening when you try and search for, or, you know, I need to be aware of awareness. How do you know? How do you know? How can you articulate, oh, I tried to be aware of awareness? Because there's knowing happening. Nothing happens outside of it. Yeah, yeah, of course.Yeah, yeah. It's like this searching apparatus just has no place for it. Right. No, you can't box it. Okay. It is an absolute mindfuck. Yes, it is totally a mindfuck.
It is. Yeah, it's like, how, I mean, for me, it's like having tasted it, then I seem to go through this cycle of, I feel it, there's some attempt to conceptualize it, then I feel I've lost it, then I get... Okay, I give up on trying because I get so messed up. And then it comes back again. You know, so it's like... It's just, yeah, okay. Just you see through it. I don't know, give it a nod and a wink. Have a little laugh. You got me again. I don't know. You know, it's not serious. You have to take it seriously. It's just... I don't know the expression, let yourself off the hook.
It's okay. Right. Right? Yeah.That's really, that's the place when, you know, relax, relax and watch the show. Watch the show of mind trying to grasp, mind trying to seek, mind trying to label, got it, lost it, understood it, now lost again. All that jumping, dancing and twirling and twisting happens. This is all reflected in that mirror of absolute clarity of pure knowing which is which grows the more the attention is relaxed out of the trying and the waiting and the thinking and okay i'll try harder i watch everything i won't let one phenomenon pass through i'll be vigilant i'll be alert i will pick every single thing that shows up.
Says who? That's the mind. But this one is known also. That relaxed face of the mirror, that clarity of the mirror or the empty screen. It can see the mind trying to witness every thought and every appearance. Mind being vigilant over the mind. All of that appearing simultaneously in that relaxed presence, which is already there, already relaxed. And the more you just... What a show.Leave it alone. Don't try to fix it. Don't try to. You see the trying. I'll try harder. I'll meditate longer and I'll try. I'll just squeeze my butt more and then maybe I'll achieve it. Force of will. Yes. Force of will.
I will achieve it. And all of that is just the spontaneous arising, even that discipline, even that devotion. I've been there. Oh, my God, I'll do anything. I'll do anything. I'll work 100 times harder. I just have to find a way out of this horrible, horrible conundrum. But the I that is trying and the I that is surrendering and the I that is striving and committing is not who you are. That's a dream character arising in that is-ness, aliveness. That is already witnessing it, knowing it, cognizing it, that which is your essential nature, witnessing the role arising, the self-center arising, longing, wanting, wanting more, wanting...
Badly and it feels like the heart is involved yes but i so desire the truth i so desire the enlightenment intensity of that longing.is still a phenomenon. It's not always there. And when you see it from that relaxed, Oh my God, you love it with all of your heart because that's not who you are. That's just a beautiful dance of Maya arising. Devotion. Oh, my God, so sweet. Arising in me, ask me, I can taste it. Yum. And then as you relax, there is nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong. It's only the mind that tells you there is something more to be had. It's only the mind that says this is not good enough.
I want more pleasure and less worries and less pain. I what? Who?There is nothing wrong in that relaxed space-like attention, awareness, just resting in this singularity. When the mind arises with anything, with pains, pleasures, desires, actions, non-actions, judgments, all of that is just ripples. On the surface of the ocean, which loses nothing and gains nothing from any of the mind activity.and seeing that activity and being mind blown. It is a mind fact to actually see the working of the mind from that completely neutral space and being amazed with rather than being involved and trying to push it away and medicate it and stop it or intensify the pleasure and suppress the pain that functioning is still going to happen you know if your bladder is full you still find yourself walking to the toilet It doesn't need any idea of doership or any illusion of control.You can see how that mind coming up with, I'll try harder, is preserving that illusion of control, the illusion that there is a me who has evolution, who wants to and who can do something.
And yes, like Simi would say, you know, in the structure of the dream, well, definitely it appears as I can better my situation. Definitely. I can, for example, you know, feed the body. It feels like I am going, doing grocery shopping, cooking and feeding the body. This is I, I'm doing it. That's how it feels.But this is the translation of functioning. Because every squirrel, every rabbit, and every wolf, and every fish does the same thing, and they don't say, I'm doing it. It's just functioning. They didn't say life shouldn't be this way. No. They don't say I'm not free. Life has abandoned me. Poor me.
Poor me. I have to work harder to be, you know, a good deer in the forest. Yeah.Children just accept what is, no matter how horrific it is. They just see that as normal. We learn that as we get older too. I think you're right. You know, sometimes, you know, the seeing through kind of happens often, I see, naturally, just with seeming age. Because you seem to have this... Ability to look down the tunnel of life, of living, and seeing that, you know, that sense of being never changed. It was always the same, no matter what age, what size, where in the world you were. That is constant, constant.
The other thing is, like, as a child, if they're suffering from a disease, like I've got a two-year-old who's suffering, Yeah. It's normal. She's going through all this horrific medication and treatment, which is horrible and painful. Everyone around her to watch is horrific. But she's just laughing and joking as soon as she can. She's crying when she's crying. As a child, for her, that's just normal. Same like animal. Same as animal, like a puppy that's lost, it's just been run over and lost a leg, but still tail's still wagging, you know, and we look at it and the blood's dripping and it's a horrific scene.
But from the puppy's point of view, it just is.It's okay. It's okay. You know, still happy to see you. That's how that story builds up over time. Yeah. And as we get older, we see that it shouldn't be like that. It shouldn't be different. And you can see that tunnel's always there. That scene's always there. And the story comes in after. And starts causing the stuff. Yeah. You can see Bob would say often that, you know, children are much closer to it because what's different? The language model isn't trained yet to completely steal the show and take over. The illusion of control isn't set yet.
The illusion of free will isn't set. The biocomputer isn't programmed yet to hallucinate separate self and be preoccupied and obsessed with that separate self. The beliefs aren't strong. There are no opinions. Five-year-old wouldn't have political affiliations, wouldn't defend the idea of vaccine or non-vaccine. Those things will come later as the programming gets more and more rigid. And the sooner it gets questioned, the lighter is the life. And Bob would also say a lot of people... Have their, you know, they had warm and loving family, not that much happening, not that many traumas. The spiritual seeking wasn't even to kick in because there wasn't much suffering.the sense of ego, which is the sense of like self-image, wasn't that heavy and tight.
There was not that much of self-rejection or self-hatred. And they cruise through life pretty beautifully. And there is love there. I remember I had people I was looking after with disabilities, having a loving family, all live on wheelchair. And the man that I'm going to see him on Thursday, but I used to work with them a few years ago. They never had any inquiry into non-duality. And yet, they have so much appreciation for life and so little suffering and so little complaints, just like that dog with no legs. The man never complained that he is on wheelchair. He's actually grateful that he is present, that he is here.
Happy to be. Happy to be, yeah. So not everyone has to go through that intensification of the suffering, the rigidity of the mind. The mind gets so amplified that it's impossible not to see. Like when Bob found himself being with Nisargadatta, psychological suffering, self-hatred, self-humiliation, so strong that the moment it was shown to him, it was like, wow. And I was in the same position when I came to him. The self-image versus the image that other people carried about me, the contrast.so heightened that it couldn't be missed. That's why, you know, starting from what do I think I am and seeing that this thought construct, what do I think I am, is just thought up construct, is not who I am.
But sometimes it is helpful to actually see the image. Seemed to do something. Yeah, I, John, was it? You mentioned something about cognizing emptiness earlier, your question. And I think I was just recalling a few weeks ago when I asked Tanier privately, because I said, yeah, if everything just, you know, is from the mind, is a concept, then cognizing emptiness is also a concept. So how do I recognize emptiness? And Tanya's reply was, well, you know who you are, you know you exist. And I thought, oh, oh yeah, it hit me then. Yeah. And I said, is that it? She said, yeah, that's it. So, yeah, and I just heard the other day that, you know, it's so simple.
It's right in.front of you right in front of us and yet it's so close that we can't see it and it's so simple that we can't believe it there's nothing to believe in it's unnecessary it's so simple that we need it Yeah. And Bob would often say, what's the first thing you see? Because you say it's so close, you can't see it. What's the first thing you see? And people would say, see the opposite to him. Oh, I see you. No, there's something much, much, much closer, but you can't see it. It's the space. It's so close that you can't see it. It's space. And it's so simple that we miss it because the mind can't grasp it.
It can't ever assert or deny the existence because, like Tony was saying, it's no void. You can't, you know, that pure no void for the mind, it is nothing. Nothing. And nothing, what's the value of nothing? It's no value. It's like, no, mind will still try and look for something else. But when you bypass the thinking, grasping, conceptualizing, dividing, dualistic, languaging mind, and you go to the heart, And just like Tanya told you, don't you know that you are? You're here. You're alive.Yeah. Well, Isn't it amazing? To just, isn't it just, yeah, for the mind, that's shit, nothing, no void. But for the heart, wow.
You know, there is a difference between being asleep and being awake. The knowing, the cognizing, the aliveness. When you are asleep, it is kind of, you know, like the recording machine, the mind is off. It can't even appreciate it. But when you are awake, but you are awake in the heart of essence of existence, rather than in the conceptualizing mind that is only, oh, this is nothing, this is bullshit, this is that. But you are in this all of being. Wow. There is joyousness in it. There is lightness in it. There is the sense of all in it. It's not nothing. It's not just nothing.
No void. It's aliveness. It's luminous. It's radiant. It's sentient. There is sentience to it. It's mind-blowing. Are you taking for granted? Yeah. Taking for granted. Yeah. It's mind-blowing. Yeah.Yeah, because the mind. It's not food for the mind. The mind can't digest it. That love for you was beautiful, the way you put that. It is just ever-present. Constant knowing Uncuttable. Just is the totality. Everything that's changing, coming and going, beginning and end, birth and death, these concepts, all concepts, all words, all of that, you could say, is happening in it. It, but not separate from, within. Of course, anything that happens in the dream, you can't kind of look back and look at the knowing.
It's just because it's inside of it. can't be pulled out and put over in a box and I would like to label being and it's just and being is just a word it's pointing to get you to look and oh it's that simpleexisting, being, knowing, aware of everything. The naked scene, naked smelling, naked hearing, unadorned by concepts and labels. Just wow. You, right now, you are a lovely pattern. That lovely pattern has just disappeared. Gone. And now another pattern. Another pattern. Another pattern. Another pattern. Another pattern. So you can't possibly be a pattern.You're shedding cells, things changing constantly. Cells dying in the body, getting replaced.
Todd's dying, getting replaced. Also what they say in the ancient texts, including Buddhist texts, it is just this and nothing else. Ever fresh presence awareness. Just this and nothing else. Nothing else. No karma, no reincarnation, no pattern, no person, no school, no religion, nothing, nothing else. No stories, no explanation, no labels, no names, no concepts. Yeah. Just as it is. Yeah. Self-shining, ever fresh, presence awareness, justice and nothing else. They also say it in Vedanta scriptures or Advaita, Sat Chit Ananda, which is being consciousness, joy or bliss or contentment. And that's it. That's the reality. Nothing else. Everything else is unreality, is maya, is illusion.
Nama Rupa is illusion.name, form, pattern, story, illusion. The truth, the reality, is the direct experience of current existence right now. Being, knowing that I am, And that, when the attention stays in that, that sprinkles into a joy, into wonderment, into love of being. Only when the attention gets spent and distracted into the sorting out, but is this truth or is this real or is the quantum mechanic real or is the medicine real or is the biology real or is the history real or is this real? Well, yeah, they are real in the dream, you know, like you're watching. a science fiction movie well did they really go to the moon in the movie yes they did in the movie but how about right now the movie just happened on the screen the movie the content of the movie is secondary but i have the comment here from bill the moment awareness becomes a container for appearances You've got two.
The one describing the dream is dreamt as well. We are as objective as the beer and pizza we are talking about. There is no subject. That's lovely. Thank you, Bill. Yeah, it's only the ing, the I-N-G. You know, the moment we are designing an object, we are designing a subject. They are rising simultaneously. In the ing, the seeing, there is just the seeing happening. Within the seeing, oh, there is this and that and that and this. That is seeing.Anyone? Yay! So I'm having an interesting experience today. Very different to when I come, like when I usually come. And today it's like, I just realized that everything's a fat joke.
You know, like.And observing everybody and it's just the mirror of my mind. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So much noise, you know? And so much trying to explain stuff. And so much trying to make sense of stuff. But none of it fucking matters. Like, it's just... So liberating to know that if I shut the fuck up, I'm at peace, right? Yes. I cannot handle any more information. I cannot. I think I'm finally at my threshold, which is the purpose of these meetings, right? But when I came here a year ago, The first thing that came to mind is we are individual thought expressions of the divine consciousness.
And I could see myself in every single person here. I could see everyone as a thought that I would think. I see myself in you. That's something I think I've thought or I may think in the future that makes sense. And then I keep coming and I've been really serious and like, oh, you know, so serious. Today I'm just like, such an interesting experience. I'm just like, what the fuck is this all for? And it's okay that there's no fucking point. Yeah. Right? And it's, I don't know. It's just, it's just, it's just. You know, they call it the cosmic joke. Like, you know, and then the more you listen and you're not judging people because you know that's going on in your own head when you're not in control.
Right. And you're not when you focus and you attach yourself to.You realize that everything that annoys you around you, the noise, annoys you because it's happening inside your head, right? And then after a while, you get sick of both. And then you're like, you know what I really would like right now? Some quiet. And then you're like, there is a bit of space, right? The space, non-void, whatever we're all talking about. That's where the good shit is, right? When we stop talking, we stop thinking, and we just be. And I feel like that's what I'm taking away from today. That's what I've enjoyed about today.
And it's a very different experience. Like I said in the past, it's always been blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm like, I'm okay. We're just shutting the fuck up and just doing my thing. And just watching shit happen. Yes. You know, and so I get so attached. I'm so glad I came. I had a big week. And I get so attached to stuff. And then observing myself, my own thoughts, as I'm observing everybody else, I'm like, I can't believe I've attached all my energy this week. To all this stuff that doesn't matter like what's the worst that can happen if i don't do this or this doesn't happen or i don't make it there like and then what and then what and then what and then what and then nothing it's okay who cares you know um it's a very nice place to be will i always be there probably not i'll jump in my car and then maybe we'll be back in reality again but I think it's nice just to have that experience, just that glimpse of nothing matters and it's okay, right?
And not so serious and not so, you know? Yeah.Anywho, that's my 10 cents for the day. Oh, that's, yeah, that's yummy. Yummy. Yes, so this is really about finding comfort regardless of whether the mind is quiet or noisy because you are beyond the mind prior to the mind. So now even if the mind is commenting, judging all the time or humming a melody and singing some nasty or who cares? It's just like the noise of the traffic. It's not me. It's not mine. It doesn't matter. Yes, but I don't understand anything. I remember that was the terror of my childhood. Trying to grasp, trying to get it.
What's going on? Where should I be? What's... Totally, totally hysterical panic of grasping, of making sense of anything.Now, exactly as you said, nothing needs to make any sense whatsoever. The sense-making machine, the meaning-making machine, it's just chewing. Who cares? What I am is beyond. I don't need to know anything and actually not knowing anything. Not needing to know anything. Never ever needing to have anything ever worked out.Because there is no one there who needs to have it worked out. Life is just living, spontaneously throwing, opening moment to moment. For no one, it's just living. I don't need to manage it, control it, understand it, grasp it.
And if there is still the self-centered arising and trying to make sense of it, that's not I. That's the function. It's the functioning arising. I can just let it be. Let it do its job. Let it understand. This one gets high when it gets exposed to some interesting ideas.But I, the stillness, it doesn't mind the high and it doesn't mind the low. And there's no believing any of those ideas. It's just, wow. Go on, Lucky. Just like what you were saying about the traffic going past, it made me think of when I first came to listen to Bob talk and he's like often talking a quiet voice and there'd be traffic going past.
I'm like, I can't hear anything. Like, I can't pay attention because of this traffic that's going on. And it's just like a perfect parallel for thought. And like, you've got these thoughts running through your head and it's like, oh, you know, I can't like be in presence. There's thoughts going on, all these thoughts happening. And then over time, like that traffic is just part of the same experience that's happening, listening to you, Kat. And Tanya, like, talk whilst the traffic is just one sound happening. And, you know, occasionally a big truck goes past. You can't hear anything but the truck. And it's the same with the thoughts and the emotions.
Like, sometimes something big comes and then it passes. And it's all just part of the same experience. It's just such a beautiful, like, perfect. Parallel for what I've experienced here. And now the traffic, yeah, it's just, there's no difference between the sound of the traffic and everything in this room. It's just one happening. Yeah, it's, yeah, I just had to share that. And the same with the traffic.with the narrative in the mind, you know, that nobody knows what's their next thought going to be. You know, like maybe when you go to sleep at night, the mind will be restless. Maybe it will be quiet. Maybe next minute there will be a memory arising.
Or maybe there will be a conflict arising and relieving some past situation. Maybe. Who knows? Who cares? Let me see. Let me see what's the next thought. Let me see if there's going to be track passing or motorbike and a noise. Let me see if there is noise going to arise here. Maybe some long forgotten song in Russian language or whatever, or German. Who knows? Let me see. I don't care. I don't have to control it, manage it. Yes. Yep. Isn't it funny how infectious those things are? And that's why it's fun to hang out and point together to that which is prior, because that's infectious also.
The love of being once pointed to that source, that source of natural joy, that's infectious too. And that's such a respite from the daily.conundrum of engagement in that little terrorist in the language model. And eventually, it really, as the heart gets more, or Bob would say, as you get more and more confidence in that which you are, that little terrorist is kind of fading more and more back into the background as less and less bothersome. It just, and the attention rests naturally in that uncontrived singularity of presence. It's like, especially as it gets more natural, because there is no conscious doing or attending to it.But then you start looking back and realize, oh, shit, you know, I used to worry much more.
And now it just doesn't come up. I used to constantly be preoccupied with where am I going to be in five years, in three years. Now I'm just completely at peace, relaxed, waiting for the life, what is going to unfold, how is the next moment going to be. There is no preoccupation. Or I used to be constantly self-conscious about what people think of me. I used to never speak in public. So those things as more and more that natural affinity for that relaxed.naturalness that respite it grows of its own bob would say it gets you and it grows of its own it unfolds it never stop revealing its little aspects for that it uses the mind It is not that mind is using it now.
It's not that mind is in charge. I am the mind and I have the moments where I glimpse no mind. No, it's the other way around. I am that which gets obscured by the mind. But really, only seemingly so, because how many clouds? You can even have 10 kilometers thick layer of the clouds, and it can never obscure the sky if you really understand what the sky is. Sky is the empty space. Empty space limitless timeless spaceless it is not that little teeny mini atmosphere around that seeming ball floating in the solar system called earth with the with the clouds in it no space is is so much vaster it's limitless That's why it is compared to the space or the...the sky but not only the sky that you look out through the eyes of the individual mind the poor me and now you can't see it because of the clouds you are not the mind the little mind looking through the clouds the sky is what you are You may have as the person a glimpse of the sky.
Oh, I saw it. No, you did not. You are it. Take your stance there. You are the cognizing emptiness. You know that you are. What's cognizing emptiness? Don't you know that you are? Yep. I know that I am. That's the truth. Go on, Michael. That was beautifully expressed. Thanks, Kat. And the thing that figured me a little bit was terrorist, because it does seem like a terrorist, doesn't it? It's like you're really held hostage. But when you pull back the curtain, it's more like the Wizard of Oz. It just never shuts up. And you just realize that. Get the mic. Yeah. When you realize, when you become the observer and you notice the thoughts and how ridiculous they are and they just keep going and going.
Oh, what am I going to do tonight? Oh, what about this? What if this doesn't happen? Oh, I'm so scared about tomorrow. Just blah, blah, blah. All the time. And like, I didn't come in this mindset when I came this morning. I was still in the blah, blah, blah. But just being here, I've just like had this moment like, wake the fuck up.Like all this stuff that you're allowing to affect you and control you and you have to be a certain way and you have to care what people think. I'm so liberated right now just being here. I don't think I've ever been this real in one of these meetings.
I've always been how I think I should be, right? And who I wanted to be. Wow. Right? But right now, thank you. Thank you so much for the space. Because I feel like we don't go anywhere for no reason. Yeah. Right? So ask yourselves, here's a good question since we're doing questions today. Why are you here? What are you looking for? Who are you looking for? Who is looking? Right? Okay. And then think about that. And then observe. And then, you know, maybe that'll do something for you. It did something for me because the whole time I was like, what am I doing here? What am I looking for?
Oh, all right. Life's a fucking joke. Get over it. I don't mean that in a nihilistic way. I'm not a negative person. I'm not depressed. But it's just that letting go, like, oh, my goodness, all the stuff I hold on to, right? All the stuff I hold on to and every day I'm waking up. And you know what? Sometimes I've held on to stuff in my dreams and I'm waking up the next day and I've got residue from the day before. It's like, you know, I'm out for a second and I just picked up where I left off last night. I've got to do this, got to do this.
Oh, this is Simon Stewart. I've got to do this at work. Oh, this person annoys the hell out of me. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? What am I going to eat? Oh, I need to take shit.You said, oh, yeah, like, just blah, blah, blah. Right? But the best part is when you realize how funny it is. You know? And that's not to say that life sucks. You know, you have a sick daughter. And that hurts my heart to hear that, right? That's not to not be empathetic. It's not to not acknowledge. There's stuff going on in the world. It's heavy, right? Don't you cry on the movies?
I even cry when I watch cartoons. Yeah, yeah. 100%. Because sometimes we're like that too, right? We get so absorbed in the movie that we forget we're the one watching the movie. You know, I was watching, I like watching movies that are based on true stories. Right? And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And then when the movie's done, I'm like, holy crap. You know, like, oh, I'm actually here right now. You know, it happens in life. You get so absorbed by your mind and what's going on. You have a whole other world in there if you're not. Yes. You know, if you don't stay on top of that shit.
God having a ball. Yeah. By getting caught up. By feeling the compassion, feeling the rage. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I've never allowed myself to feel rage. And that's come from my childhood. I was not allowed to be angry. Right. And that's so debilitating, especially when you become an adult and you have to speak for yourself. And you don't know how to appropriately manage anger in a constructive way to voice, to protect or to advocate for yourself.Right? But it's, there is no, like for me, there's no good or bad. It just is. Right? Oh, okay, I'm angry right now. Okay, cool. Oh, I'm really happy right now.
Oh, I'm crying because this makes me sad right now. Okay, let it go. But I feel when we start to hold on to stuff. Yeah. That, you know, we don't want to let go. That's why children, it's not until they become adults that we have this magnetic residue attaching sort of capacity, right? We just hold on to stuff and we're older. Kids, when they're younger, they're in the moment and they process it and then they let it go. Right. And they feel it. It's not until someone else says, oh, what happened to you was really wrong. Oh, you poor thing. And then the story starts.
Right. And then they're a victim mentality. And then it's like that actually happened to me. Something happened to me when I was younger and I processed it and I didn't care about it. But then someone else had an experience similar and they told me about it and they were totally victimized. And all of a sudden the story existed for me. Like how often does that happen? Feel your stuff, be aware of it, let it pass through you and go. Nobody needs constipation in any form, right? We don't need physical, mental, emotional, spiritual constipation. We've just got to let it go. That's what I'm learning from today.
So thanks, Kat. Thanks, Tanya. Like these spaces, I learn something new every time I come. That's so beautiful. I love the mental constipation. That's true. It is. It is.Yeah. And thank you very much. Thank you, Burhu. Thank you guys on Zoom. Thank you, everyone. And people who are on Facebook Live.