This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
No. All right. Welcome everyone. We're gonna start from introducing each other to each other. We have Blazanka here on Zoom with us and we have Cheryl and oh my gosh, there's someone more here. Oh yeah. Hey. And we have here, we have Dean, Kat, and Tanya, and we have Jamie and Emma.And. Yeah. So. Basic introduction traditionally what we do we actually offer people tradition is a young tradition but it is nonetheless offer people if anyone would like to start and give us few pointers just show us how it flows through you jimmy would you just for fun of it or not really Okay, no worries.
Yeah, anyone else? A couple of pointers? No? No? Okay, no worries. I'm going to need you to make it. All right. Oh, beautiful. Yeah.So you guys have been amazing in the expression of pointers and the ones that stick with me is... That from which it all comes. Or that from which it is all revealed. For some reason, it just works. Where I can have an experience of separating myself and relaxing. Some space of detachment. Just kind of watch the show.That's what I got. That's, yeah, that's all that's needed, really. We were actually having a chat with Dean in the morning about that so-called perennial philosophy, which talks about the original cause of everything, which is the source of everything, which clearly...
Is the consciousness itself, because when you are unconscious, nothing's going on. So just even pointing back and relaxing into that. Nothingness that is which is not a nothing is no thingness because it is alive it is luminous radiant this brilliant it is vital vibrant sentient it's not nothing but it's not a thing And even speaking about it as it is already far, far away because consciousness is here. It exists here, right where you are. It isn't outside. And this is really what the non-duality is pointing to. It is pointing to that presence of consciousness. That is largely overlooked because we have such an incredible entertaining system in the heads called imagination.
We can think about what is not happening.This motorbike is not happening right here. And how do I know it's a motorbike? How do I know? It's the imagination, all the faculty capacity of that incredible, incredible projector there, allegedly in the head, but really nowhere to be found. So we can conceptualize our identity. We can work forever and ever to improve our identity, to better ourselves. What a wonderful ride. And then we can also... Conceptualized future we can come up with all sorts of terror and fear what's gonna happen you know AI is gonna eat us or you know my boyfriend is gonna dump me or I'm gonna get cancer and I'm gonna go to the nursing home anything anything goes from the perspective of individual It is an absolute roller coaster of heaven, hell, heaven, hell, if you believe your thoughts.
But from the standpoint of that source that you pointed out, wow, you know, you rest in that full, open, potentiality field of potentiality of experiencing and expressing anything and everything any dream any life any pattern Wow that's sometimes called omnipresence omnipotenceBecause it's present here, but it's appearing as present everywhere. It's appearing as there is a presence inside every sentient and insentient. Even the chair is present as here. So that presence suddenly projected itself into the 10,000 things, into the forms. And when you close your eyes, it is back again into just pure darkness. You open your eyes and that incredible machinery starts labeling. Making sense of every single object there, object and every single appearance, and the concept too.
Things that are not appearing, like tomorrow or five years from now, my job or my parents not appearing, and still belonging into that pure potentiality of experiencing.some of that oh yeah and welcome there is someone coming to zoom uh david hey so that's uh that's what that original cause uh points at all the source or the pure consciousness i think someone's at the door also You got to. Oh, yeah. Okay. So Michael will join us in a second.And back to the so-called perennial philosophy. This, what we are talking about, is not a philosophy. This is not a set of concepts. It's not a religion. It's not something that you learn and then you remember and then you have it or you got it or you understand it.
It's much, much, much simpler and more obvious and more immediate than that. It is that acknowledgement of the fact of your own existence without which nothing is. If you weren't present, if you weren't alive, if you weren't here, if the consciousness wasn't here, nothing could potentially, possibly exist in any form. So you are, you as the consciousness, the presence, the I am, the sense of existence, prerequisite. For all that colorful expression, appearance, for that phenomenal world to exist. And, well, people would say, yeah, so? Yes, I'm the dreamer. The dreams are appearing within that consciousness. Yes, they're appearing in my dreams. So? And that is the disease, that is the human condition, ignoring the most profound truth that is staring right in your eyes, because the mind is looking at it and is saying, so what?
So what? It takes it for granted.And if it tries to actually touch it, come near it, understand it, or grasp it in any way, it comes with empty hands, nothing. What's consciousness? Nothing. Nothing. You can't say how big or how small or where it is located. Yeah, there are theories, of course, but those theories that it is in this part of the brain or whatever, they are also appearing in consciousness. All those theories can only exist because of that sentience, that consciousness. But how can it get to know itself? How can it grasp itself? It can't. So it places itself down. It doesn't matter. Okay, let's focus on something important.
Money. Career. My image. How people think of what people think of me. That's important. Well, how important is that going to be in 150 years? How important is it for people who died like 500 years ago? It really doesn't matter the least. What matters is overlooked. And again, only when you look through that lens of the mind. And what is the mind? There is no such thing. You can't even grasp the mind. Okay, let's look at the mind. What is it? Just the capacity to think. Just the stream of thoughts, one after another. Thoughts of yesterday, tomorrow, thoughts of myself, I'm not good enough, or I am too good for that, or...
What isWhat is it going to give me if I learn that shit? What am I going to get out of it? All that self-obsession, mind is the stream of thinking centered around the idea of self, me, the controller. I am a person. I have free will. I can do whatever I want with my life. I can be whatever I want. I can conquer the world. I can save the world. Wow. What a beautiful dream. And I'm better than you. Or I'm smarter or wiser. Or no, I'm not as good. And living in that world, especially if you look at the younger generation, completely reliant upon that comparison that comes from the advertisements of the perfect bodies and big cars, and they obsess about possessions because it is a promise of a paradise.All in the mind, all in the thinking.
Where is it now? In this immediacy? Where is it if you don't think about it? And what is without the thought? What is left? What is here? And this is really bringing the attention back to the source of all attention, rather than scattering it around amongst things that are secondary. And we don't say that it is not important to look after your health or to show up at work or look after your children or any of that. This is already pre-conditioned in the body. Everybody the body of a bird the body of a dog or a tree will do what it is conditioned to do will wash itself will feed itself will care of its youngs and and and that's not a concern it all happens on autopilot and it will continually happen and it's not a small thing and it's not unimportant it's just secondary to the fact of consciousness because you pull the plug and you take the life out of this body and what does it have to say what does it have to see what can it experience and what can it doAnd then because that life essence, that intelligence, that consciousness cannot be grasped with the mind, this is the longest journey, so they say, from the mind to the heart.
Because the intuitive knowing is always here. No one can deny that they exist and they know it. No one can deny the presence of consciousness. On the level of heart, on the level of God, it is known, it is clear, it is obvious. Only the mind can't grasp it, so it ignores it. And living in that grounded position of present moment, of this moment right now, and seeing what unfolds, in the immediacy, in the seeing, in the hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, from that groundedness of present moment. Now the thinking is even more phenomenal, beautiful and appreciated because it's not a master anymore. It's a servant and it serves you well.
Like well-trained AI serves well. Wild AI maybe will eat us. Who knows? Who cares? Funny stories around.But well-trained mind doesn't even have to be trained, though it can, but it doesn't have to be trained so long as it is watched, known, experienced from that presence. If the mind is seen as the set of patterns or algorithms, set of behaviors or set of habits of thinking or set of compulsions to label or judge, if you see those things arising in consciousness, You see them as arising patterns. You are the presence. You are the witnessing. You are free to watch it. You are free from the mind.
You're knowing the mind. You're observing the mind. You're admiring or whatever. You're witnessing arising of the pattern. It's like the sky. When the clouds, the stormy clouds come on the sky, they don't touch the sky. The sky is untouched. What is the sky? It's not a blue canopy which suddenly got painted black. No. Sky is an empty space. There's nothing there.So the consciousness, empty space, nothing there. But the capacity of conscious awareness, of cognizing, of witnessing everything that arises without needing to relate it to any imaginary person. This weather is good for me, this is not good for me. This behavior is good for me, this is not good for me.
This sky doesn't need to do, this consciousness doesn't need to do. This is only an overlay of the narrative created by an extra algorithm, which is just narrating.And this narrative, because it started as we were learning language as little kids, initially, you know, and everyone who learned a foreign language would remember it maybe more than being a little child. How before you have to say something, you kind of rehearse it in your head. Is it correct? You know how? Even people who don't learn foreign language but prepare themselves for important conversation might do the trick and you can see how how this is is just a learned skill the language and then learning it and rehearsing it and living with that narrative all the time and the narrative at some point saying not the little johnny wants to pee now i I want to pee.
So the whole narrative goes into, from the description, describing language, into owning it. This is about I, and this is I. This is me. This is who I am. This is what I am. And then having the language installed all the time, the little imaginary friends from childhood. Still learning machine, still constantly yapping, chatting, commenting. Eventually, the identification comes. I am this voice. This is who I am. It says I. That means that's who I am. I am.The little person in the head constantly commenting, I like this, I don't like this. It knows everything about me. It must be who I am. And that's how the identity starts getting solidified.
And the more information that little voice collects, I had this trauma, I have this family situation, I know this, I dream about this, I had that heartaches, all of that gets accumulated. And this persona, this rigid costume of identity is being built from those scraps. Of past experiences and conditioning, all experiences also interpreted in particular way. If I was growing up in a different country, in a different family, those experiences would have different meaning and they would construct different personality, different identity. All random. All environmentally induced. How could that be me? That collection of thoughts and memories and ideas that solidify the costume, the mask of what I am or who I am.
And as the little child grows up, it gets so convinced. I mean, you know, today is loosened up in some of the areas. But when I was growing up over 50 years ago, the child was a little boy or little girl. And that was it. They were the options. They were convinced, of course.I am a little girl. If someone calls me a boy, I'll take an offense. This is loosening up today, but other forms of identity are getting more rigid. It doesn't matter. It always finds the way to define itself as a form. And it plays the game as a form. Now the game of hide and seek, the pure intelligence, the pure potentiality, the pure consciousness appearing as a form in the rigid costume of poor miserable me with this sort of problems and OCDs and ADHDs and whatnot.
Now the God forgot itself and experiences and expresses itself as a form which is longing. For that unconditionality of pure existence and it starts seeking for it. If it can't find it in a bigger car and a better career and more approval from the peers and parents and attraction, then it will find it in alcohol or drugs or shopping or whatnot or spirituality. Just give me a break. I don't want to be separate anymore. I don't want to be limited anymore. I don't want to be worse than and better than. And I don't want to constantly need to aspire for more to earn my own self-respect.
Give me a break. This voice is killing me.But this voice is just an autopilot running. Software. There's no need to stop it. There's no need to fix it. No need to reframe it and change it to a more pleasant tone. No need to turn your inner critic into your inner cheerleader. Yeah, sure, you know, there's nothing wrong with all those tricks either. But there is a bypass. Recognize first. See what you're dealing with. Find the kingdom first. And it resides here. It's not outside in NLP tricks, in hypnosis. It's not out there. It's right here. And when this is recognized, you see it for what it is.
You see the cage of concepts that constructs your identity. That's all it is. The collections of memories of past. Me of memory, Bob would call it.That's not who you are. That's what you know about yourself. And like Anthony started us beautifully, you drop it, just rest it all. What's wrong with this moment? Without all that armor. Without that cage of ideas, what's wrong with not knowing? Not knowing who you are, what you are.panic the depression the hysteria oh my god i don't know if i identify as this or that or that or what's you know i identify like yeah your nephew told me there was a person identifying as a bunny rabbit and you have to respect it dressing as bunny rabbit that was what the what the body mind machine identified How about put all that shit on side and see what you are, if you are, how you are, without any identity whatsoever.
Will you disappear?Will you stop breathing? Will you stop seeing? Bob has a beautiful little shortcut, spiritual bypass. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Just give yourself a second and have a look. can't conceive of the problem because that requires a thought so there is nothing wrong and I can confess my body is really uncomfortable today I had a couple of glasses of wine and it just doesn't like it but when I pause the thought that's discomfort it loses its label It isn't even that. It's nothing wrong. There's no concept that it shouldn't be there. So there is nothing wrong. It's absolutely nothing wrong.
What else? The next, the follow-up question that Bob would ask after what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it. Did you disappear? Did you stop existing?Did you know who you were at this point? Did you have to hold on to the idea of being male or female or something in between? No. There was nothing wrong, nothing required, nothing needed, nothing missing. And that's the invitation to live from the standpoint of the groundedness of the direct experience without needing to, how would say it, he was quoting someone, Banky, trade unborn or exchange unborn Buddha mind. Which is your birthright for the thought, for conceptual image, from the idea of identity.How about stepping into that unknown as a pure consciousness?
That is unlimited because that is the experience. If you don't think about the limits, Can you find any? Limits to your consciousness. Just find the limits. You think of the furthest galaxy. Where is it? your consciousness think of the galaxy beyond the further galaxy of beyond think of parallel worlds all imaginable and unimaginable where is it in your consciousness in your dream right now appearing us You are limitless. Ask consciousness. You are limitless. And then limitless consciousness, of course. How about the body? Well, limitless consciousness is blind if it doesn't have eyes. That's why the body. It's like you can't, you know, find yourself in Europe if you don't have a jet plane.
So you get the body of the jet plane and you find yourself there. So if the consciousness wants to see, it dreams itself a body with eyes and it can see. If the consciousness wants to move or swim, it dreams itself a body of a fish or a bird or whatever. It's the experiencing. An expression that requires the form, the pattern. Pure consciousness in itself, of itself, needs nothing. It is complete, it's absolute. But this original cause, and they call it in this perennial philosophy, the original cause that is unknowable, is beyond the mind. Why? Why the dream?There is no answer to it. We can play with the answer.
We can say, why not? But it makes no sense. It takes so much energy, so much attention to hold up everything. See how the moment attention is withdrawn, things disappear from consciousness. It's a Mother's Day today, allegedly, not in my country, so my mother will celebrate in a couple of weeks. But it is here so we can think of our mothers or not. When we think, they appear. When we don't, they disappear from the consciousness of this present moment.So that consciousness is limitless and it has absolute, complete, full potential. And it is right here, right now, and you can't deny it. But what is it?
Can you grasp it? And so what? What's in it for me? Well, this is the hard question. For me, nothing. For that imagined conceptual self that imagines that it is somewhere sitting, some mini miniature of a person running a show, choosing a boyfriend or career or choosing to dwell in their past wounds and put the salt into them or... Chase better car or career or whatever, nothing in it for that imaginary ghostly phantom. That phantom has no existence. Have a look. What is it? What is it? Is it even there?and see if it really is that much fun to identify as that limited, separate, poor, miserable, sometimes not so bad, depends on the day, and sometimes, ah, shit, I hate myself.
If you can actually just relax again, like Anthony started, to that field, source of all consciousness, and rest there in absolute unknowability and ungraspability without any definition, any boundary, and yet still seeing, still hearing. Not needing to know who I am, what I am, why am I here. Not having a grandiose idea that, oh, yes, I'm enlightened now. Or, oh, I'm God. Oh, I'm nothing. No idea. Not required. No identity required. Yes, but I need identity. Says who? A thought. A thought.Identity is a construct made of thoughts. Animals don't have it as far as we know neuroscience. And so in that collective dream that we all dreaming, we can agree that animals don't construct that sense of separate self.
So they always present, they always alert, they always making the most of this moment. And even if unpleasant things happen, even if there is a discomfort in the body, or if trauma happens, And that poor maltreated, mistreated dog will go and bite everyone for the next two or three years before it settles, if the conditions are safe.it still doesn't conceive of the idea of psychological suffering. Yes, but why me? Why is it happening to me? Because there is no sense of separate me it's just that vastness of consciousness open witnessing whatever is arising the worry is arising oh anger is arising welcome oh the shame is arising Yummy.
Not personal. Doesn't even need to be labeled. A vibration of energy is arising. Oh, now tears are flowing. Wow. Sweet. This is the consciousness allowing, receiving everything just like the sky, receiving any clouds, any weather, just being. Being completely contented in the being itself, loving to be.It's one of the pointers to non-duality, Advaita from Hindu perspective, Sat-Chit-Ananda. They are three factors of reality. And Nama-Rupa are two factors of unreality or illusion. And it beautifully illustrates, it's just words, words can never grasp it, but it beautifully illustrates everything, the whole world boiled down to five elements. And those five elements arise simultaneously, they're not... They're not separate in any way.
The three of the elements are just aspects of reality. And two of the elements are aspects of expression of reality, which is illusion, which is maya, which is a dream. So reality is sat-chitananda, being. Knowing that I am and loving to be. And that's the reality. Everyone who exists right here may say, yes, but I don't really love to be. I'm contemplating suicide. But you're here. Let's face it, we humans, we could do it very, very, very easily if we wanted to. It's just not a scholar to just get on the street in the wrong moment. You know, it's, come on. We're here.There is loving to be.
And if there is tantrum that, yes, but this, but this, but this, that's another way of expressing the love of being. I love to be, so I don't want to be in discomfort. I don't want to be poor. I don't want to fear my mom dying. I don't want any of that to happen because I love to be. I love... That expression of life. So the love of being Sat Chit Ananda is already, it is a description of the reality. And the Nama Rupa, name and form, labeling, naming, claiming, relating, I am this, not just I am, but I am this. I'm a body. I'm a person.
I'm the mind. I'm this age, this gender, this nationality. This is the illusion. This is the dream. I am is the reality. I am this or that. This is the illusion. The illusion, the dream is name and form. It only exists in the mind, in the labeling, in the language.It's not a game to discard the language. I can't see the clock doesn't go. I don't want to entertain you for too long because we want to invite everyone to actually open the discussion. We have a few people, seven people on Zoom with us and we have eight of us here. So yeah, let's maybe just stop here and...
See who wants to contribute ask share and we also have people online with us oh okay oh thank you giotti yes okay so james says the dream has no rhyme or reason that is such a good point that is a beautiful point and thank you james yeah all the meaning added to the dream is another conceptual stories another way of creative the the creative capacity of that life essence oh i tell you the story what does it mean why am i here what's my purpose Beautiful, so sweet. But when you see it for what it is, again, it's just part of the play and it's enjoyable.
Nothing wrong with that. And the last one, Anthony says, try and tell a scientist on why we're here that we just are. Yeah, good point.You know, the play, some of the ways they speak about non-duality is, again, Lila or, yeah, Lila is a divine play. God is playing in one giant sandbox, is just having so much fun in so many forms. And the play called Science. What a gorgeous play. What a lovely play. It's the play in which the number one rule is you have to ask why and you have to find the answer. And you go to your AI with that and it will hallucinate you a thousand answers.
It's good at that because it can produce the results always and forever. And so does science. It works the same way. They were one model of each other. Yes, the why question. It is always a beautiful invitation for that creative aspect of that playful God, that playful omnipotence. Why? Okay, let me come up with something good. Oh, reincarnation, karma. Yes, because in my past lives, and oh, there we go. All the source of creativity is the why question, invitation for the mind to just flourish. Beautiful. But when I related to the imaginary self, shit that gets scary because it gets real it feels real is serious oh my god is my life this can happenSo if I'm in the present moment, Bob would say, you know, did you know your first breath?
No, you didn't. Will you know your last? Not you want. So why do you care? Enjoy this one right now. Yeah, and if there are any more contributions, guys who are watching us, come in. And guys who are on Zoom with us, do you have any? Any sparks?Questions, comments, observations? Just give us a couple. I'm just asking if anyone has any. I have all of the above. There we go. Hey. Yeah. Yes. Hi, how are you? Hi, Ben. Thanks so much. This is my first meeting with you guys. I had the chance to speak with Tanya on a couple of occasions. Good to see you.
Yeah, I was so it's it's just been a very interesting process. I feel that when we talked, it was kind of like planted seeds, you know, and certain realizations will visit me at given moments. I'm curious. Like, so for example, yesterday I woke up with just a clear realization that there was no, No separate self. Like it was just, it was, oh, right. I'm trying it's something that doesn't exist in the first place. The freedom is very present. And then today I woke up and it was like the pendulum had swung and a great deal of heaviness and identification was there. Even though cognitively I recognize and experience that, you know, this identification is just another arise.with an awareness, it feels quite real again.
So, I mean, I'm just curious about that. And is this just part of the process and we revisit the truths when we can? And then, yeah, just putting it out there, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful question. Go for it. You can ask why, but, you know, will you ever know the answer? But you could consider that without imagining that it's heavy and sticky and the sense of me, that it is real, how would you know the difference, the absence of that?So you were able to say, I felt great. Yeah, well, there was no me. I woke up, I was free. The next day I was not free.
Okay, right. Pairs of opposites. It's the whole shebang works. See through it. There's constant change in the dream. But that... Presence awareness, the awareness of being present. You can ask yourself, do I not exist? Is there not, is this whatever it is, not existing?No, I don't. Yeah. Always here. Oh, yeah. Always here. I had to check. Always here. No matter how sticky that sense of me that you imagine is. Right. Or how absent it is today on a good day. You know, it's got words in it. How do you write a story? You've got to have words, concepts, sticking them, making them stick on the paper.Hmm.
You know, the story, you know. Thank you. The story begins with once upon a time and always ends with happily ever after. It could end another way, but there's a beginning and an end to the story. But I think what's been described in this whole non-duality is this immediate nowness, this presence, this aliveness. And in that, everything appears. And in that, it also appears, ah, there is no self. I am free. Oh, I'm not free. I'm caged. I'm bounded. I'm all ideas, all part of the story. Appearing now and the story can appear in every in any conceivable manner in every so obviously none of these descriptions can can can be true in any way um all all that remains behind the descriptions or before the descriptions or without the descriptions is Boom, this, this.
Yeah. And if this has an appearance of a suffering self, a lost self, a trying to find a self, a no self, a good self, a high self, a big self, a small self, a happy self, a sad self.It's all part of the story. It's all part of the description. But the description is not really what's described because what's described is immediate aliveness that's universal, that no one, everyone knows it, everyone can sense it, everyone has the same noun, the same, you can never have it, there's no past, like there's no, there's a whole story of you. Can only exist in a thought. The whole future of you can only exist in a thought.
And, you know, in a thought and thinking, you know, like the thought, I think, can't think. Like, wow, that's just when I first, when first that came along, it was, it just, it was an explosion. It's like, wow, there's no thought that can actually, the thought I think, any thought can't actually think. It's an appearance. It's a word. It's like a vibration or like a movement of energy that we call a thought. So it has no sentience. It has no power, really, once it's seen that way. And then, you know, the main, the governing thought, the king of all thoughts is me, myself and I.
So everything, like you'll notice, everything's referred to. Oh, there's a tree. Oh, I see a tree. Back to me. Oh, there's a person. I see a person.or there's a person relative to me. Like they're all storytelling, all of it. Like the whole frame in which we describe or which we think we are these humans living this life is all based around this me, me and my body and my thoughts and a world. And if all that... If every little bit that I just described is a story, what remains? It's like, wow, just this, just now, just absolute aliveness, absolute simplicity. No one knows anything more.
There's no one greater. There's no greater teaching. They're all appearances within this immediate nowness. And then everyone in that sense and everything is equal, like it's, you know, like that one essence. This is the one essence, patterning, shaping, expressing itself, forming itself in every expression, in every thought, in every feeling, in every body, in every leaf, in every blade of grass. It's that same essence. And all you can say about it is this, now, aliveness. All that you know is like even, you know, everything can might condense. When everything's broken down, what's left is that sense of I am. You know, I am is like the...
Like the primary thought. It's described as a primary thought, but even that is a thought.in the primary thought, because the sense of I, the sense of being, the sense of aliveness of life itself is not a thought. So I am is all we can say is the first, is like the first thought before the story of I am a good guy, I'm a person, I'm a human, I'm in a world, I'm a male. That's like the very start, the very first thought. And even that is the beginning of the mire, of the whole deception. And yet the whole game, because it's not really deception, it's life doing its thing.
And I'll just shut up. Thank you. That was beautiful. Beautiful. Also, what struck me when you actually asked your question, this was brilliant because you already know, even from the way you actually ask, because you described the situation, there is a knowing of no self arising in a consciousness. And there is a knowing. Of self and heaviness arising in a consciousness that knowing of lightness and the knowing of heaviness is the same knowing yeahYeah, that's very true. It's a joke. We all know it. Right. But we get lost in the content. This is pleasant, this is unpleasant. But the knowing underneath is always already just like that sky.
Dark clouds, sunny day. But the sky is untouched. The knowing is... It's neutral. It doesn't mind whether the content of it is pleasant or unpleasant. It's the same knowing. Like Bob would talk about seeing. It's the same seeing. You see the dark object and the light object. Seeing doesn't differentiate. It just unconditionally allows everything. The knowing and the seeing. Funny enough, in English language, they're almost like synonymous, aren't they? Seeing, knowing. You described it and it just struck me. I wanted to hear, you know, like, because we all say the same thing in how many different ways. But even the structure of you asking, describing the question was like, wow.
Wow, life betraying its own innate knowing already. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't, there's no coming and going. It's never absent.be lost. Yeah, no, it can't be. And the knowing is present. I suppose it's like there's just still some, yeah, it's probably a subtle identification with the mind. Like, there's this element of recognizing that nothing you're aware of can be you. Yeah. And on another level that somehow makes everything you. But to truly be able to be everything, you need... I first need to fully recognize I'm nothing. It's like in that moment, everything is free to be itself when I cease to identify with it. But maybe I'm still fine.
I make it into something of a trying. Like, you know. I'll go into like there's still an attempt to shift the content even by like I'll repeat myself that like okay wait knowing in knowing an appearance or one I think I read it maybe one of Bob's books or maybe it was John Wheeler but that is just such a huge thing for me but then there's an attempt to repeat it constantly to re-recognize it, which isA bypass, right? In its own way. I want it to be different than what it is. Yes, that's it. And also, I need the identity. Come on. Whether the identity is of space or whether the identity is of everything or God, but just give me the identity.
Who needs the definition? Why there is a need to know who I am or what I am? How about having absolutely no clue? And just dissolving in absolute complete comfort of not needing to know, is the mind that needs to know because it fears the unknown. It is the attempt to control because if I have no idea, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, that's so scary. Oh my gosh, I can't put up with that. No, I need to know. Just give me anything. It's still the mind that needs to have it all figured out. You know, the grand concepts, oh, I'm the pure, great vehicle of enlightenment or pearl, still identity.
Or even, you know, the idea that, oh, I have to first be nothing. You don't have to be anything. You just have to be full stop. And that's already granted. Who, what, when, how big, how small? That's all mind. You already are. Full stop.And oh, no, no, no, something, please. Not nothing. But is-ness is not nothing. It's, ah, is-ness is so alive, is so vibrant. Pure is-ness is not nothing. Like, you know, just even the whole potentiality of multiverse with every thought. That's not nothing. That's the potentiality of the consciousness. But the moment you start defining it, it... It rigs the boundary, no matter how wide.
I'm God. Still a description, still a boundary, still the identity. Just being. Without knowing who, what, how, when, why. No, just being. Completely out of the mind.And it's here. Yeah. Yeah, I totally can feel that. It's like there's such a patterning towards attempting to grab that the ungrabbing process is just, I mean, is just being. And that, yeah, it's such an inverse to what we all are so used to. Yes. See that? There's a knowing about the grabbing. How are you? See how all of that that is changing, the words, the concepts, the story, the description, the actions, everything.There's awareness of everything. Yeah, and it's like when...
What is all of this occurring, I'm going to say, in? Yeah, it's like in itself. And you could say an awareness, but it's not a separate thing. It's not separate. There's no real, there's no word for it. It's prior to concepts, prior to words, prior to mind. You can't, you never put your finger on it. Right? With the mind and understand it. I've got it perfect. I've now described it. I know what it is. That's it. I've done it. That's a lie. It's a trick. It's part of the game. It's just what's happening and knowing.Right. Consciousness. It's occurring in the world. Wow, it's so wild because it's like...
Yeah, that blows the mind because... Yeah, it really does. Mind does not compute for a moment. Right. Yeah. Well, it's beautiful. It's like, and it's such an irony because, you know, it opens up and then you're just able to receive. And then there's something that's so desperately wants to, I mean, understandably, to keep it. Right? It's like, oh, I love this beauty. Let me hold it. Let me grab it. Let me define it. And yeah, it's because it can't trust that it's a given. The mind can't trust that it's given. Yeah. You know? Isn't it sweet? Just blow the kids. Yeah, that's the word. I'm sorry.
Yeah, there is such a sweetness to it. You know, like there is such love behind it. You know, that biocomputer that is there as a navigational aid to assist you navigate as that form. It just wants all the most beautiful and all the best. Just come on. Just come on. Like, I love you so much. I want it for you. I want to keep it for you. And I want to have it better for you. How beautiful. That's the love of being.showing up through the lens of that algorithm, of that biocomputer. When you see it this way, you don't believe that you don't have it.
You just see the intent. And oh, it's so sweet. Right, right. Yeah, something that really wants the best. Yes, because, you know, and if you identify as that, that means, oh shit, I don't have it. I have to guard it. I have to control it. I have to make sure it doesn't get forgotten. But you are not it. You are the consciousness seeing the antics of that program. You are already complete, full, inseparable, unknowable. You are the totality. Seeing that sense of luck playing out and trying to bring it and control it and give it to you and love the hell out of you. Just give you all the best.
But this is a trick. That which is witnessing it needs nothing, lacks nothing.Yeah. Yeah. I always go back to this quote I remembered hearing of like, the bad news is you're falling without a parachute, but the good news is there's no ground. Right, so it's like all those things we think we need, you can like, oh, cause it's like you're already here. It's already a given, or like grace, you know? It's such a tremendous irony that all that we're striving for is given so much better when we stop attempting to get it. Yeah. And it's wild now because I know this and I know at some point I won't.
And that is like... That really bugs me out, but I mean, it's just part of the game. See if there is really anyone getting, trying to get it. Because maybe it is just an algorithm running in circles, trying to grab attention to make itself real. To feel real for a moment. Oh, yes, this is real. Oh, wow. And then the steam goes out of it and, oh, shit, there's just another algorithm playing out. Right. Never been real. I've been a seeker for probably a good 40 years of my life. And it was the most important quest. It was so real. It was so much of a longing and desperation.I was ready to die for it, absolutely die for that truth.
And it was never anywhere to be found because it was never missing. What a joke. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for contributing really, really great insights and the great questions. And I'm going to just include a couple of people who are online on Facebook Live. And you stay with us. If anything else comes up, just bring it on. And I wonder if you guys actually hear there well enough. Good. Oh, yeah, okay. I'll repeat it. The joke. Oh, this was brilliant. And thank you for that one. It's a brilliant parachute. You fall off the airplane. And the bad news is you have no parachute.
And the good news is there is no ground. Keep falling. Doesn't matter. You're here. There's nowhere to fall. You're always here. And it may feel like a free fall for the mind, but really the mind is just an attempt to describe and grasp. The here is immovable. It doesn't fall. It stays. It's here. It's never in danger. It's never touched. And Giotti says here, This is just another thought, of course. It is often said that understandingor knowing of no separation is different for different people. However, the ceasing of seeking is an indication of getting closer. I find that suffering, mental turmoil, and the awareness of it happening simultaneously.
It still creates restlessness and the desire to take some action to get out of the situation. And just as well, just as well, Jyoti, because if you look at any natural creature in the wild, you know, if there is a bird flying in the rain, it will find shelter under the bushy tree or, you know, just as well, there always be... You know, it's a natural survival mechanism that if there is cold, you put the jumper. Don't worry, this is not going anywhere. Unless, of course, you know, we know there is sometimes the navigational system breaks down and people have to be looked after by other people.
And even that is still life providing. And Michael. It just triggered in me the thought of the pain of mind coming. But there's a recognition of it. I've got it, I haven't got it. And repetitive thoughts coming. That's also of service. I mean, sometimes... Like I would feel that I have to escape from it.and like a bird finding shelter or whatever from the storm. But now I'm not doing that at all because that's a way of losing it. So sometimes you have to just do whatever you can to distract yourself from it and survive. But it's actually, that's loving you as well. Because if you didn't have that, you'd just be living all of that bullshit.
You'd be living all of that, whatever it's telling you. The fact that you're actually noticing it, it's actually pointing back. It's forcing you to look back. So that's loving you as well, even that. You're really good, Michael. Also what you say, yeah, give it to Anthony. I just say that you notice that even distracting yourself or not distracting yourself is none of your doing. This arises spontaneously. Sometimes the presence arises and witnesses the tears or the anger or whatever shows up. And sometimes the distraction arising. This is all already pre-conditioned in the machine. And the machine always does its best for its own survival and thriving.
Even that you're not doing. So you can never be wrong or right. You're always innocent as the non-doer, but furthermore, there's no one there doing it. It's like no one beating the heart, no one distracting, no one going shopping, no one doing anything. It's just unfolding of its own. And Anthony has the mic.So my wife, Serena, passed away just over a year ago now in April. And through that experience, there are events that happened, like she died of cancer. Went into the shed breast cancer and it went into her brain and it's referred to as leptomeningeal disease where it gets in your spinal fluid and it shows up on the outer membrane of your brain you get that it's kind of rare but it can happen with any cancer and that's it medical intervention immediately stops when that's when that's when that's realized andThere are things that happened that was profoundly shocking, complete disruption to what I held on as an absolute in my life.
I can see that, like there was an event that happened where her cancer got so bad that the doctor had called me back to the hospital and said that we can't even believe she's talking clearly right now. She could have a neural disruption. Any time. So you have a conversation with your wife in a given that news, and only a husband and wife who loved each other would have. And I called Serena's mom and basically told her that Serena was dying and she needs to freaking come now, now, like tomorrow, like be on the flight. And the experience of that was so incredibly real and shocking to the system.
And it had a huge narrative to it.that I've been holding it. As this real thing. I guess, in the experience of who we are and the character in the dream, let's say number two. Number two is holding it as a very real thing. And I had started, so I used this opportunity to go to therapy. Australia has grief therapy and I started doing EMDR. I did these meetings talking about, you know, non-dualism and stuff like that. And in the experience of doing EMDR, I saw that I was holding on to it. My perception of my awareness, I can see the past and all negative and disrupting stuff coming from the left.
And there is almost like a resistance of looking to the right because it held the space of infinite possibility. Just in the field of where thoughts are streaming from, I saw it.And I can see that I was holding on to that experience. And I now have distance from it. And I can sense a calm, a quiet, almost assuredness that was just there started coming in from the right. And. The amazing thing is that it's always been there.something that was so, it's so real. And I, this is like, I can now talk about it for the first time without crying. Like it really has held on to me in the most profound way.
I can see the story that created it, and I can even see the experience of the energy that's been held in my body.and having distance from it. And what an incredible experience that's been. Like, wow. Wow. What an incredible life experience. And you can see that you can actually translate that very, very strongly charged, maybe the most charged experience in your life. You can see how, you know, a little bit less charge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Produce very, very memorable experience, even less. Charge will produce forgettable experience like you had mentioned uh you had said i really like that when you had said the sting yeah yeah yeah that's it like like there's there'sThere's just a lot of this.
There's a lot more distance from it. Yeah. Which is awesome to realize or to see, not realize, but to see. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, pretty amazing to actually have experience that you could translate into. Like it's so amplified, it's so strong, it's so vivid that you can't miss it. You can see the way this experience brings itself into the sense of reality, gives itself the sense of reality. This is, you know, like... Everything else you can question, but this is real. This is so real. I can feel it with every fiber of my body. Don't tell me this is Maya bullshit. I can feel it.
I'm convinced. This is all because of that life essence charging it, emotionally charging it so strongly that it really becomes a solid block. That is actually how the whole dream comes into existence. Charged by that attention, fueled by that energy of sustained attention that is solid. We're disengaging that attention. And again, there's no doer. But noticing, what you're noticing is the disengaging of attention to the story. But you used some lovely...words to describe that which has always been there, just unnoticed. Subtle. It was calm. But the experience has been getting distance, detached, seeing thoughts as they come up. But when that thought came up, it was complete immersion in the story.
Big time. Trauma. Trauma. Yes. Yeah. And it took a while for me to. Pinpoint out of the whole experience what that what was the traumatic part of it and i i was able to see itAnd to. Of clarity around it and get distance from it and see it for what it is and what's been created. And, to relax into it. When you see how the whole construct is being built, you know, how that incredibly persistent illusion is being sustained, every little building block of that, you see how it is constructed. Wow, you have an insight into that, you know, that creative power of the universe, the source appearing.
Because you can't miss it. So vivid. And yet, where is it? Can't grasp it. Can't cut it. Incredible insight to have and anyone and everyone could look into you know who didn't have trauma everyone survived the childhood if they're here and that's a lot of unresolved traumatic experiences some of them pushed down not even looked at But anything that seems unquestionable, solid, or super emotionally charged could be looked at and see what it is made of. See what it is when you don't think about it.And when you interrupt that pattern of recreating it, constantly recreating, it's like a little, you know, like a valve delivering that life essence, that energy of belief is constantly open.
It just keeps it alive, keeps feeding it. And then when it gets a little bit interrupted, okay, now it becomes a memory. It isn't re-traumatizing anymore. It is just a memory. And then, okay, it may be still honored. And it should be because it's a beautiful creation you know that level of intensity is a masterpiece and of course i don't wish anyone to ever go through what you've been through but you know i've been my husband of course was yes and and yeah yeah appreciation for thatis appropriate. It's just, yeah, honoring and appreciating that, you know, that closeness to the way the dream gets constructed.
And you can see it through any experience. It doesn't have to be a dream. But with the extremely charged one like this, distilling from that chaotic, you know, like full body confusion, panic, fear, state of, seeing how even that state has been manufactured by all those factors coming together, amplified, seeming so real.But not even now, not even here. And the beauty is, you know, when the courage comes to no one, to see, to look, see the knot, you might describe it, it loosens with no effort required. You know, doing, it just loosens. And also now it's like having the experience of,Like as you're walking through life, you know, you're doing things, some things pop up for you and you bring attention to it.
Yeah, we're always going to, well, if that bridge comes, we've always been able to cross it. So far, we're all still here. You know, we're all doing okay, seems like, you know, still here. So we somehow had figured out. out how to get through anything. So, like, the conversation of worry is, again, something else that's been revealed that there's more distant from it. Anyway, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's just another appearance. Yeah. And it's that capacity to imagine what is not happening. Wow. Wow. What an incredible capacity. And being free from it. You know, when the terror arises, knowing it for what it is, is a mental projection, is a mental image.
When the worry arises and the dark scenarios are clouding there, knowing them for what they are, they're just patterns of energy arising. And what's behind them? What's behind the worry? Oh, darling, I don't want you to be in trouble. I want you to be safe. The love is always the love of being showing up as other. Showing up as the nastiest inner judge oh you bloody lazy bastard you haven't done this you shit you unworthy another way of saying oh sweetheart i really want you to perform i want you to be happy you have to do the job you're gonna have greater chance to make it and to survive is love appearing as other because it's only oneSo we could call it something else.
We could call it fear. But if it's one and they say it is called God and God is love, why not just call it love? It's sadchitananda, being, knowing, loving to be. If you see that original cause behind everything as... Asserting the love of being as expressing the love of being expressing the desire to be okay then even then the most harsh guilt trips or even suicidal ideations are known as just another way to preserve that love of existence. And if, you know, like chickens in the cage, the existence is not worth preserving and the only way out of suffering is to see if one of those wires gets loose and just help yourself out, well,That's how it is.
Do we have more? Oh, yeah, sorry. Sorry, guys. And we have Anthony says, my dad sometimes speaks of the end of the dream, but something tells me there is no start or end. Wow. That's, yeah, dream-ing. It is a dream-ing. Lovely. Yeah, you can see, you can, you know, conceptualize it whichever way is convenient. You can see that every thought is a dream. The thought comes and the thought disappears. It's a dream. Let's talk about the mothers. Mother is a dream. And now let's talk about the moon. The moon is a dream. But the dream ink, it never goes anywhere. It's just the capacity. And James says, there are no benefits.
For the personal gain in the sincere investigation the so-called seeker discovers they never were and geoti says thank you cat michael and james and beautiful what you say james that's the end of the seeking the end of the seeking is the end of the seeker you realize that there is no one there seeking, that the identity that you think you wear some sort of a separate,conceptual image you wear a person or someone somewhere that's just a smoke and mirrors that is just an overlay the conceptual story you always wear just the pure open limitless ungraspable unknowable field of consciousness in which even the idea of me is just an arising phenomena.
So there is no seeker. There is no one who says, I am this, I am small, I am big, I am God, I am enlightened. No, there is no one to say anything about anything. And yet the saying may be arising, the costumes, personas, the roles, all of those may be arising. In that already free, ungraspable, open field of knowing. No seeker, that's the end of seeking. Because there is no one to seek anything. There is nothing to be found.investigation the so-called seekers discovered they never were and of course yes straight away as james is saying here not only the seeker is no more but it never was the whole projected past of 20 30 40 50 some people a lifetime of seeking it's just another thought happening right now the seeker never was it's just a memory i could say oh but i've been in ashrams and monasteries and met these guys and those guys and did that what is it now it's just a thought Seeker never was, nothing ever happened.
And Anthony also says, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Beholder being the observing oneness. When you're in it, the beauty of the story is easy to miss. Mmm, yeah. Yeah, when you are a character in the play, well, you can only appreciate the play from one limited perspective. When you step out a little bit, relax, you can not only see the perspective of the character, but you can see the whole play and appreciate every little angle of it. Without this being so serious, so dangerous, so personal, so painful.So exhilarating because all of it is just an appearance. So people expect that, oh, yeah, there will be much more pleasure in life.
Not really. There will be much less pain. But as the pain goes down, the sense of pleasure, it isn't that important anymore. There is natural, of course, like you look at those cats around here, they're naturally drawn to comfort and pleasure. But that... Even that desperate grasping at that gluttony, even that eases off. Because there is nothing wrong anymore. There is no need.to chase anything. I remember that was probably good nearly 10 years ago. I had a friend who came here and we were hanging out with Bob. And she said, look, I feel a calling. I think I need to go and do the ayahuasca ceremony, but I don't know the people.
Would you go with me? You've done it 20, 30 years ago. I say, look, I have no calling. It doesn't matter. It makes no difference. I have no calling, but I also have no objections. I mean, you know, I can probably go with you. I don't really need any of it, but I don't even need to resist anything either. It's just complete neutrality. Bob panicked then, so it never happened. Because his conditioning was around, you know, one of his friends who was like son for him for 30 or 40 years, every now and then coming back to heroin and getting himself out of the gutter on the edge of survival.
So that was all he knew about the drugs. He got sober in 60s before all the fun started. But because he was so incredibly open-minded, the time comes seven or eight years ago, I never went for an ayahuasca ceremony, but I went tothe sun to die me and Bob gave me a blessing. You want to check it out? Yeah, go have a sit, have a sing with the guys. And I did, I sang some songs and he had no objections any further. But this is the freedom when nothing needs to be chased, nothing needs to be changed, nothing needs to be eradicated. And in that sense of already bypassing all the requirements, but you must do this, you have to do this, you need to eat this food, do that many hours of meditation, do this particular therapy.
Who?And yet, from that standpoint or perspective of just being the consciousness, welcoming whatever comes, naturally, if there is a discomfort arising, there is a call for resolution arising. And if that call is arising, that call will be answered. So there is no objections towards someone finding themselves in a therapy of some sorts or on antidepressants of some sorts or anything at all, because there is no set of ruling principles. If it is all just one life essence experiencing and expressing as everything through this body, what it is going to experience next moment. I don't know. Let me see. Through that body, through that body, who knows?
What is going to be the calling? What's going to be a situation? Who cares? I'm here. If I stay here, grounded here, that discovery will be granted moment to moment, ever fresh, ever new. Fascinating because there is no objection there is no preference there is no fear but the preference for pleasure arises naturally that is also just arising but in the knowing there is none there is no preference there is no partiality there is no comparison there is no fearWithin that, comparison arise. Reference all of it. But it's just like different objects arise in the field of seeing. And seeing doesn't mind. And again, those things are never to be separated.
What arises from that field? No, I can't separate that I am the field and this is not I. No, no, no. There is no definition. There's no defining. There is no I am the space and I am not the form. No.I am full stop. Who I am, what I am, what I am not. Completely secondary. Who cares? Just the mind with its panic and its compulsion to have it figured out is just a phenomenon arising. Just see it for what it is. It's just a thought arising. It's just the urge arising. Wanting to know, wanting to find, wanting to grasp, wanting to have it. I know it and you don't.
I have it. You don't. I get it. You don't.It's just a subtle arising. Jimmy, we didn't hear you today. No? Maybe one word? No? Yeah, he's a body. It's lovely to be here. That's your one word? All right. Thank you for that.No coming, no going, no having, no flowing, just knowing. Now in. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for hanging out with us.