This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Good morning and welcome, welcome everyone. We're going to say our names. There is Dean here, Bob and Tanya. Same. Cliff. Cliff. Richard. Anthony. Michael. And there we are. See Bob. Okay, now we can. And we have a couple of people who are just joining us on Zoom. Yeah, and there's someone at the door.Hi, Ben. Okay, we have... Cheryl and Peter from... Peter from Casmania. And welcome. I think one more person is coming on Zoom. And that's that. So welcome people who are on Zoom. If you want to participate at any point, just put the hand up. If you don't know how to do it or where to do it, just unmute yourself and we'll get you included.
And we'll just wait for a couple of people there. Are you coming?We're all in a life, so if you want, if you want, I become. Okay, so we're ready. Anyone who is with us here would like to start us off? Anyone would like to give us a little bit of an introduction? Just say a few words about non-duality, about pointers, about what actually... Are you taking care of that?Thank you. Anyone? Anyone up for the challenge? Yeah, wonderful. Stay where you are. I'll get you the mic. A couple of weeks ago, it was my first visit back after a long period. And I finally got to the point of understanding that awareness is part of what I am.
So I've been playing around with it all week. And, yes, yeah, it was just it hadn't registered. So, yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's under the bed. It's under the bed. Who's under the bed? Yeah. That's that? Okay. Yeah. Thank you. So it is a nice realization. You may later on throughout the process realize that awareness, as you keep looking, is... Growing and growing while the you that the awareness is part of is shrinking more and more see the thing is awareness isn't a part of what you are you the imagined self is part ofthat whole field of experiencing. But, you know, to even be able to acknowledge the fact that there is something, there is no thing, that there is, the is-ness, that there is something more than just the imagined little controller of that life, the runner of the body, the person that is running the show.
It's a wonderful, wonderful, see how the realization, how the freedom grows in that. Suddenly, there is a possibility to just chill, just relax, just let it run the show. If there is that omnipotence, that power which is running the universe, well, just sit back and marvel at the way it runs. It runs the body, it runs the thinking, it runs the feelings, everything that comes up. Is actually an expression of that force or that power or that omnipotence omnipresence omniscience and and then where there is a place the me that it was part of what is that me really okay let me see where is that me uh it kind of feels like it's here okay the sense of presence is always here it's never not here you can't say you are not no one can say they don't exist i mean of course they can say itThey have to exist to say it.
Yeah. No, no, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I haven't got anything else to add. It's, yeah, it's just looking and, yeah. You notice the noise is dropped off. So that's another aspect of it.Yeah. I'm still playing with it. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful realisation. And awareness is all there is. And the realisation comes many times during the day, I think, if the mind... Starts chuffing away, creating scenarios and ideas. And then, oh, I'd say, oh, it's just awareness. It's just being. It just is as it is. And all those seeming characters arise in the thinking, you know. I might be thinking, I've got to do this or I should have done that.
Hang on a minute. Who's thinking all that? It's just, oh. And it just drops away in that moment. It's just being. And you can have a bit of a chuckle because it just keeps flowing along. Suddenly you're somewhere else and you're doing something else or you know you're imagining you some other character you know the one that's done well or done badly or remembers going here or you know what happened yesterday all these thoughts come and go and you realise that the thinker, or you think that you're the thinker, you take on all these different characteristics as that thinker, you know, imagining.yourself to be this or that or even, oh, I'm thinking all this.
Who's thinking it? Oh, that's just another idea or another identity that I've taken on there. But it is. The noise, once you see it, things keep happening and thoughts keep happening, but they're of no great concern. They're not that important because there's no real... Real attachment to them, you know, these ideas coming and going and the doing takes you to various places and happenings during the day. And the night too, because it goes on in the dream world too.Beautiful. You just look at the spontaneity of happening. Sometimes they say, and that triggers a lot of people, nothing ever happens. It seems like there's a lot of things happening, you know, even at night when you're dreaming, a lot of things is happening.
And there is a central character in that story to which everything is happening or to who all those things are happening. And then wake up and you shake it off and where is it? But to say nothing ever happened, well, yeah, but last night it did. Where is the last night? Where is it now? It is the non-duality as such is actually looking at the current experience right now. So the concepts of continuity in time, the concept of space, which is outside the immediacy, the concept of people and places and things that are not in this immediate recognition or immediate experiencing of this moment right now.
They only exist in that conceptual overlay in the imagination. So last night, where is it? It's a memory. Where is it? In imagination.Time, where is it? It only exists as a concept. It only exists in the mind. There is no time outside the mind. Time is a measurement. So where is the distance also? That's also a conceptual agreement, a measurement. And that immediacy is verifiable right now. Right now, in this moment, that is seeing, happening, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, imagining, fantasizing, memorizing, or all of those things are just an appearance in that ever fresh present moment. They are just content of that present moment.
And that content is changing all the time. There is a different seeing the content. The seeing is the same, but it's a different content of what we are seeing around right now. And then you go to the bathroom, the content will change. And in the morning in your bedroom when you wake up, the content is different. But the seeing, the capacity, the immediacy of the experience synced through the visual channel, that one is always immediate. The auditory channel also immediate. Different words are flowing through it. The words are changing. The sounds, the traffic, they are changing. But the hearing itself.is that life essence filtered through that body-mind machine and appearing as seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking.
And I love when Bob actually brings up other vehicles for life. You know, he brings up birds. And he says birds, they have different capacities. So their experience, their life essence flowing through the bird will appear as really, really sharp vision and capacity to fly. Humans don't have that. You can't see the mouse from a thousand meters like an eagle. But through the capacity of reasoning, of thinking, we can design the equipment which will enable us to do it. We can't fly without the equipment, again, which reasoning enables us to develop. But again, there is that one same force. Which may express itself as a mountain, as a tree, as the eyesight of a bird, or as the meowing of a cat, or barking of a bird, or yapping and chatting of a human, or seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, imagining.
If we recognize that this is the life that does it, life does the seeing. It's not I that do the seeing. It's not I that do the thinking.I wouldn't know how to do that. I don't know what am I going to think next. I don't know what I'm going to say next. So it's the life essence that does it. Easy to verify. Please don't do it. Switch off life in this body and it will stop. It won't see anything and it won't say anything. It's like your computer, Bob would use that metaphor. Take the power off or your mobile phone, take the battery off. There's nothing it can see.
The camera is off. The speakers are off. So is the life essence itself that is filtered through that particular organism appearing as the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. It's not the mini me. It's not a person who says, who hijacks the sense of presence and who claims the capacity to think, to have free will, to make choices, to make decisions. What is that person? Where is that person? And you will see that it only exists as a thought the thinking capacity which is the capacity that that very source essence the life exhibits through that particular pattern that thinking capacity become the so-called ego or imaginary person So it is even that.Even the sense of separation, the sense of being limited, sense of suffering, inadequacy, the seeking, it is all on life.
You haven't done anything right or anything wrong in your entire life. You haven't done no thing because there is no you. The you that you think you are exists only as a thought. Without the thought, what is the direct experience? Without the thought or mental image, are you this body? Without the thought or mental image, even if there is a sensation of a toothache or a back pain, but you don't have the mental image of a tooth or a back. Is there a body? Is there a tooth? Is there a back? It's just a vibrating sensation. So in the direct experience, body is only a thought.
Body is only in the mind. It's only a mental image. In the direct experience, without a memory, are you male or female? Are you even human? And you see that all that identity that has been constructed over the lifetime is constructed from that bricks of thoughts. It doesn't have existence.existence, independent existence, apart from thinking. You switch off the thinking and that's it, that's gone. You wake up in the morning and before you download all the memories, oh, what day it is, oh, what am I going to do, oh, what am I? There is just presence. And there is no concept of a day of a week or anything whatsoever.
Those things are downloaded later on when that simulation, the computer, the projector comes online. And this is that very capacity of this machine which keeps the me of memory, Bob would call it me of memory, the... Hallucination of a self running the show that resides somewhere inside the body or inside the mind and it is seemingly real and it seemingly has capacities to see to hear to think to make decisions choices to make mistakesto speak, meow, and all those other things. So where is it? Who is it? Does it even matter? Who cares? If there is the claim in the thinking of the eye which runs the show, who is that claim appearing to?
Who is aware of that mental image? If you think of yourself as a person with certain past, with certain capacities, gender, nationality, age, and certain perhaps preferences and political affiliations and all that stuff. Now you see yourself in a particular way as a little avatar of what you think you are. Is your mother seeing you the same way? Is your neighbor seeing you the same way? How do they see you? What is their mental image of you?What is your mental image of them? Do you think the way you look at your neighbor is the same way the neighbor looks at themselves? You will see the discrepancy between that avatar, between that mental construct.
Which is a wonderful, wonderful capacity. It eases navigation. You know, if I assume that this body is female, is Polish, or is Australian, and it is this particular age, it will behave according to social rules installed for that particular mental image, and it will automatically, just like every biocomputer, follow its conditioning, and it kind of runs the society fairly smoothly. But if you see that this is just a set of programs that run automatically without any need for anyone to claim it, to control it, to own it or to fix it, none whatsoever. Now that which you are is prior to that program, to that conditioning, to that mental image of self.
You are not the image that your neighbor has of you or your mother or your teachers or whoever. And you are not the image that you have of you either. Who are you without that image?What are you without that image? If you push it aside very gently and now just look at the direct experience of existence without the mental image of limitations, without mental image of your shape as a body or the space that the body takes. Without that mental image, do you take any space? Do you have any boundaries? In that direct experience of existence, that sense of presence. Do you occupy particular amount of air or space?
Or you just are?Do you have any... Boundaries shapes any beginning or end or any size yes can you say anything without the mental image of the body about the existence itself that sense of being right here without any memory of being a person with a gender, nationality, age and all that. That direct experience of existence, does it have those qualities? Does existence have any age? Is existence young or old or gray or male or female? Or it just is? You will see that that direct experience of being is already here fully accessible and is already limitless, timeless, spaceless, bodiless, mindless. It's only the thought and the mental imagery that superimposes Some qualities, boundaries, age, form, name.So when you see how that magic trick is constructed, the existence is happening of its own.
Just like the, as Bob would say, it's one essence shaping, patterning, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. Just like an existence of a space, of water, of trees, of whatever, of those sofas and carpets and other bodies is just an expression of that one energy. It expresses itself as every pattern, every shape and every form. But that's just an expression. But in essence, it is just presence, just being. Reality of that names and forms and shapes and patterns can be questioned. Because reality is that which is changeless and patterns and shapes and forms are constantly changing. Because they are not changeless, because they are changing, we don't call them real anymore.
We call them maya, we call them illusion. The body is changing all the time. There are cells dying, replaced, dying, replaced. The movement, every single organ is constantly moving, is alive. It's a life expression. It's a process. It's the ink.as the experience sync and express ink. That's all there ever is. But trying to grasp it and make it to an object and hold on to that object. This is what I am. This is who I am. That's futile because then, you know, like any other belief, It comes with that transparent sense of identity. And again, it's a wonderful navigational aid, but it backfires. If I believe in absolutely anything, then it is mine, it is personal.
And suddenly there is an I that believes it and defends it. And what is that I? Well, there's nothing there. Okay, let's construct it. It's just the same way as you hypnotize a person and ask them to tell you about your past lives. The mind, just like any other language, large language model, will just drift and hallucinate. It will tell you if it doesn't have information, it will make it up.It will tell you all your past lives. If you ask your chat GPT, it will tell you all the past lives too, if it doesn't have the information. It is programmed to answer the question. So this is also programmed to keep the integrity of that dream character.
So it believes the dream character is solid. It keeps the consistency of dream character. It is programmed to keep it constructed and keep it seemingly in charge of the whole show. But if you see it for what it is, if you see it as the navigation aid,
And marvel at a brilliant, intelligent way it shows up. Hey, hey, hey. There's one chair here, one here, or you can have... Good to see you, by the way. Yeah, you can do that one. Or you can sit here. It's okay.So what's your name? Junior. Junior. Welcome. Welcome. And we've seen you before. Lovely to have you with us.
So we were just kind of, I think, wrapping up the introduction, basically bringing everything back to the direct experience versus the conditioning. So direct experience is that we are existing right now. There is a sense of existence. There isn't even a we, because we is already a concept. So in the direct experience, there is a sense of presence, luminous, vibrant. There is I am. I can't deny the existence. What I am, who I am, that's all thoughts. Thoughts are telling me that I'm a person. Thoughts are telling me that I'm this age and this gender and this nationality. Thoughts that have been picked up along the way, that have been learned from parents, from society.
All those things have been collected along the way and built that mental construct, that seeming identity that now believes that it runs the show. It believes that this is what I am or who I am. This is me. This is I. But when we look and we see that this construct is really just made of thoughts, and what are thoughts? They're just vibration of energy. They are just fleeting mental images.It doesn't hold anything. It doesn't have any solid existence, any independent nature. It is completely reliant on mental activity. You can get strong enough anesthetic and it will all go away, disappear. So that's not the reality, that's not the truth.
That is just the program that is installed in that body-mind machine to make the navigation smooth and to also to make the realization possible. Because you can't realize. The inherent freedom if there is no illusion of bondage. So the freedom of pure existence, unadulterated by any concept, is already here, is already so. You can suspend for a moment or ignore the thinking and prove it to yourself. You already are. You already are limitless. It's only the thought that tells you that it's otherwise. You are already inseparable from anything that arises in that field that you are, that limitless, open, spacious field of consciousness, of presence awareness, immediate, right here, right now.See what stands in a way of fully acknowledging your freedom being already so, being already here.
And you will find thoughts, mental images, the cage of concepts that is not real, that is constructed by conditioning. By imitating other, by behaviors learned by imitation. Seeing that, there is no need to break the cage. There is no need to fly away. There is no one there to do it. You are the open field of consciousness. There is no personal self in it. You are the space-like or sky-like awareness. And you see the mental construct telling the story of a dream character, playing the role of the dream character. And you realize that as that field of consciousness, you have never done anything at all.
You are just a presence witnessing the body beating the heart by itself. Exhibiting the capacity for seeing by itself, thinking by itself, taking credit for what it has done or what has happened to it by itself, telling a story of poor miserable me who had such a bad life.or who has such a low self-esteem by itself. All of that is happening on autopilot. Nobody does that. And you are the presence in which these thoughts are running themselves. And you are hearing it, seeing it, listening, experiencing, witnessing. All those thoughts so now what you're gonna make of it oh i'm so ugly i'm so stupid uh i don't deserve to be alive i should kill myself i'm unworthy those thoughts what are they you are the presence in which the old program of self-hatred is running on autopilot.
You are not doing it. It has nothing to do with who you are or what you are. You look at those thoughts and laugh. They have nothing to do with you. You are the consciousness. And you see that you can't deny it. Everything that ever happened, arise and faded away within that presence that you are. There's nothing outside of that presence. Even things that are conceivable, imaginable, arise and fade away in that presence, that consciousness that you are. And you know it. You can't deny it.So see the thinking, see the programming for what it is. See the mental construct, the mask of identity for what it is and leave it there.
There's no need to fix it. There is no need to get rid of it. There's no need to embellish it or to do self-help and make yourself a better mental image. To exchange low self-esteem for high self-esteem. Well, those things may happen for the dream character, but ask the space, ask the consciousness. That's none of your business. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the dream character will embark on the journey of being vegetarian or practicing Vipassana or learning French cooking or flying a jet plane. It absolutely doesn't matter what the dream character does. What really matters? Is that you realize that you are already free witnessing where life is going to move that dream character what thought is it going to give it next and what that thought where is that thought going to move the character and just stay in that open field of curiosity and let it show you.
Let be that space that you are and experience.the good and bad, the pleasure and pain, the change of seasons, the days, the nights, the pleasure, the pains, the hopes, the dreams, all of it, without touching, without needing to fix it, being absolutely free from whatever arises. It may seem like an impossible task because it is not a task. It can't be done by the mind. If there is something that's saying, okay, okay, I'll do it now. That I, which wants to do it, is just another arising pattern. Leave it to. Witness it too and leave it. There is nothing to do. Space just is. Consciousness just is.
It doesn't engage with whatever appears. If you can leave thatlittle bit of the presence of the witnessing unengaged non-attending witnessing the movement of attention That's where the freedom lies. The freedom is in realizing that this uncontrived free attention is your essential nature rather than the of course and the movement is not excluded but the movement is the maya rather than the mayaThat which notices the movement is stillness. Stillness knows the movement. You are that stillness. If you see the movement, And if there is any possibility to just allow, it's not even allowing, because space doesn't even need to allow itself to be free and unengaged.
It doesn't. It just is.So it is just relaxing, just resting. Bob would call it rest in the uncontrived singularity, singularity of the whole shebang, like Daniel said, of the totality of emptiness showing up as forms. Enjoy the ride. Because this, it is light from, if there is no story of me needing to be any different, or things being needing to be any different if there is a desire for more pleasure because this body will always have desire for more pleasure or more spiritual cosmic union or more awakening or more you know love that's all pleasure so if if there is the desire arising for no not this not this something bigger better something more well that's just another appearance That's just another appearance in space that says welcome.
It doesn't mind. The sky and the cloud coming, sky doesn't say, no, no, no, go away. It doesn't control anything.that oneness of consciousness, everything that arises in the consciousness, including desires, including aversions, including preferences, including behaviors, including inappropriate behaviors, including the movement towards going to the therapy or not going to the therapy. Including the ideas of but I will bypass or I won't. All of that is just arising on the screen. And what the character, the dream character, how charged it is, and whether it is going to be causing action or not, is secondary to the fact of existence and recognition that this existence is already here.
Nothing needs to be done for you to exist and to realize that you are. I think we have some comments here. Anthony says, good morning, says Giotti. And Anthony says, hey to the group. Just wanted to say I loved Bob, but the way we attribute the stuff he said to him doesn't feel true to what we speak of. It was filtered beautifully through his life pattern, but as he would say, he's just messenger. Having said that, it is just language and the word or name isn't the thing. Yeah, I don't quite understand, Anthony.what you say. Some people get a little bit worked up when things are not attributed or quoted to a person who spoke them, they find it disrespectful.
Other people are a little bit worked up and uneasy about doing the opposite, about mentioning who said it and how. So, well, we'll just have to go with it, you know, whatever is being spoken and the way it is being spoken. I don't know if I can filter his name out or stop referring to what he said because I'm not doing it. It speaks the way it speaks. And if it disappoints you, well, yeah, notice who's disappointed. And Blaszynka says, realize you are free, witnessing where the life is going. To move character witnessing emptiness showing up as form yeah beautiful that's that's that so um there is no more comments there's a few more people watching but yeah anyone on zoom would like to say something or anyone here would like to have a voice Give us an aspect.
You are free to quote or not quote Bob. Don't worry about the comments. People have preferences and it's, yeah, we are free to just do the exploring. And whichever way it shows up is perfectly fine.I might say something about the dream character that, you know, we imagine that we are somebody that has some sort of continuity, but that character really changes all the time. You know, I wake up in the morning and think, oh, I'm a hopeless bastard or something or other, and in the afternoon I'm a great guy, generous and lovely, whatever. But these images change, and our images of so-called other people change too.
I think the guy next door is a terrible person or something like that, and yet you see him. Being nice to your cat or something, you think, oh, that's wrong, he's really a great guy. But all these characters really, once you realise that nothing is fixed, there is no fixed person in yourself, there's no fixed person in the other images either. And what you really are is that you are that timeless, spaceless being, beingness that's always been like a little baby of, she's got a little grandson recently. You can see that the beingness is all there, even though he's got even no idea. His body or anything like that or any ideas about his personality or hisgood points or bad points or any of that stuff that seems to occupy thinking so much.
It is just the beingness, the character's not there. It's funny, I think about time and what we were saying about dreams not being real, and we know that, and then we think, oh, I did that yesterday or something or other, or your partner says, remember what you said last Thursday? But, you know, that is just, that's a dream too. But in society, I suppose we live in that dream and we hold each other responsible for what happens in the dream. But, you know, to the beingness, it's all just appearance changing. Patterns of energy happening in the here and now. Yeah, beautiful.Just bouncing off a comment somebody made in one of the chats, I think it was a fellow called Anthony.
I see what I took from that is a little reminder about not worshipping the messenger. Yeah. And, of course, it's all just pointers. Words are... Limited and it's a miracle really that we are able to communicate at all but somehow it happens. Yeah but Bob again would be the first to say don't kiss my feet. Yes. And nobody can do it for you. Nobody's got anything you don't have. You don't already have. There's no degrees of being. And it was all about... Doing the investigation. And as you say, see that. What is your actual experience right now?Are you coming from a, is there a reference point, something controlling what's coming out of your mouth?
You're just discovering it happening as it's happening. And what just happened is gone now. It's past. It's lost its energy. Where is it? It's gone. It's why nothing ever happened. It's gone.And you go, oh, but it's still there. Where is it? It's constructed imagery. We use the word imagination. But it's what's happening right now. Talking about Bob comes up, Bob's pointers, Bob's words, but who? Did Kat not just, you know, is she not here just delivering this beautiful spiel? Has Kat not been delivering spiels for years? Did Bob not sit quietly in the chair while Kat gave the spiel? Does it matter?Does it matter? You know, the pointers are beautiful.
Gold. They are only pointers. All the magic you're ever going to... All the magic is already there. You're already that. Nothing to be altered, fixed, changed, gathered, possessed, collected. Knowledge of how to be. How ridiculous.You can't not be sure. The words can come out of your mouth and you may say, I deny my own existence. And saying that, oh, okay. Yeah. Nobody can do it for you. There's nobody there to do anything for anybody. And Bob would often say, I'm not talking to you, the person, I'm speaking to that I am that I am.You can't. Trying to work it out, understand it, analyze it with the so-called mind is a fool's journey.
It's just seeing through that, seeing through the thoughts that pop up that try and drag you into that vortex or recreate that mountain of thoughts and concepts to get lost in and to ignore what's happening right now.We ignore it. But it's never not there. The comment about witness it and leave it. And of course, as we know, words are limited.I guess I'll take us in a direction where I sort of spoke a couple of weeks ago. Things that keep things that keep arising. The challenges for want of a better word or the attachments or, you know, one of the beautiful things is when the fog is lifted and you're observing and being the observer and observing the observing.
There is that sense of stillness and that clarity. And I'm going to give you an example is the, you know, the daily play, you know, the act, you know, the mind-body. And I think I use the word tension, and you'll hear me use the word tension because it's easier for me. Of the daily trials and tribulations of people and life. And something that certainly gets better, and we've touched on this earlier, is the more you're bringing yourself to it, the easier that it is.does get but when you're surrounded by people right and you've got friends family work we're constantly daily talking engaging the communication with people and and their pain because let's face it well, at least for my lived experience, the mind-body, I know so very few people who are content, truly at peace and content.
And so, you know, to just stand and observe, witness and leave it, is one of the most precious things that the pointers and the coming back to and the easiness is. Is giving but also too in a sense i've found that that there's something i've had to work through is the the feeling the emotion of loneliness Because if you are, if you're, there's so many people out there who are delivering the pain to you, talking about the pain with you, an expectation
of you carrying the pain with them. Then that to me has presented a challenge over the years to which Now I am becoming more at peace within the sense of just the observing and that what is a thought if you don't think it, not taking on the energy, the negative energy.
And it's almost like, you know, I don't want to be tapping in and out of this.you know, these people, it means that you're going in and out. I'm on the phone and someone's angry about a project that wasn't executed properly or, you know, and then carrying that, right? And the beautiful thing about... Observing and understanding, you know, I'll go out onto my balcony and I'll look at the cloud and then, you know, the analogy of a cloud in the sky and it's moving and it's gone, you know, coming back to some of the pointers, coming back to that. That space and it is getting easier but um the drama that plays out around you is yes is incredibly umintertwined with The separation can be challenging sometimes.
I just thought I wanted to share that. Yeah, it's a challenge. It's been ongoing for me for a number of years. And then, yeah, as I said, the loneliness around that. So very pleased to be here today. Yeah, wonderful to have you here. And wonderful to have you also on our Zoom meetings because, yes, I so resonate with what you say about not having a language, not being able to actually speak the same language with people around you who are always just perpetuating their old dramas and stories and take them so incredibly seriously. And then some of them will even watch the news and then bombard themselves seven, eight, ten times a day with all that dread.
And condition themselves to have really, really high level of stress and you are in the field of those people. And I remember when I was a seeker, that was really, really challenging. And it was devastating because, you know, you actually not only you mirror those feelings, but you also absorb them in a way and they condition you as the machine. And then suddenly you are full of that suffering. Today, and this is the way, this is...the way it can be experienced. You know, the way I hear, and I still have very, very dear and close relationships with my beautiful friends from the other side of the world and the friends here and my family, and they haven't changed.
Their dramas are as colorful as ever. And with Bob, we would even watch a movie and cry on the movie while the mirror neurons were activated to experience the compassion. And now when I hear about my sister's problem or my mom's incredibly, incredibly dark experiences that she's been through, I can cry with her, but I don't carry it along. And this is, I can really hear her now, rather than protect myself and distance myself and separate myself to, because I need protection. There's nothing that needs protection right now. I am the life receiving whatever is appearing. You know, if there is a volcano erupting or if there is a flood of tears erupting in the field of life, it is welcome.
It is received. And what a different quality. Of service I can provide for her right now comparing to what it was 10 years agoWhen I was trying to console her, convince her, reframe it for her, fix it for her, and I couldn't hear her because I was so busy preparing how to respond and shout her down and make it better. Now I'm the space. And when that flood ends, space is shared and the suffering eases off without any agenda to ease suffering and then when the conversation is over the next thing appears in the field a cat is hungry or something else and I'm with what is rather than with what what was and of course as the nature of the mind is the thought may pop in And the body may act out on the thought and send a little message, or it may not act out on the thought, may just recognize, okay, that's just a thought.
And again, engage predominantly with the present moment. Sometimes engaging with the present moment is the scheduling or planning the next session of just receiving. And I never know. I can't because it is all spontaneous and because there is agendas when they arise, they're just part of the happening. They're just part of the appearance. But yes, there definitely is a way of...of dealing with the suffering of the world in a way that is much more organic, helpful, healthy, Yeah. Yes, if you want, if you want, if your desire is to help others, help yourself first. You know, when you were talking about flying, did you fly over from Tasmania?
Sure, yeah. You know, when you're on the flight and they show you what to do in the case of emergency? Yeah. And the oxygen will drop from above your head, secure your own mask first. And if you're traveling with children, then you can secure somebody else's mask. Otherwise, you're both going to suffocate. Yeah, absolutely. And in the process, you may discover that there is no one else. So focusing on fixing the world, which is just a projection, and missing out the projector being the only one that actually needs fixing. It's like this, this is really like if you look at what is happening here and you find just that pure, pristine, luminous, radiant life of presence, experiencing everything, winters and summers for it's all.
Its own expression, then you see the same in the, like, my mom was a victim of severe abuse on, like, multi-levels, was kept hostage and being through a nightmare that I wouldn't work.wish on the worst enemy and it was still life wanting to experience and express those darkness of darkness and when you when you kind of see it in this way and you welcome life to share that now and you are grateful for actually experiencing seeing that unique picture as something that is just wow without the judgment oh it shouldn't or is wrong no it's just there is no commentary it's just a pure receptivity it's a different quality because now everything as when you look that there is no one here you know there's no one anywhere the illusion of self is still appearing there may still be an intense suffering it and and the being truly helpful is to actually see them for what they really are If I see my mom or anyone else who I speak with, if I see them as that pure life showing me that incredibly beautiful, colorful mandala of juicy experiences, and I just say, wow.
And they feel heard and seen and received. And they join the wow. Shit, you know, yeah, it really is the wow. And we have Anthony says,here, Kat, your pointers were always gold for me. I thought I had heard Bob's spiel too much, but really it was always fresh and new. It always was because Bob was relieving the spiel every time he spoke it. He never really memorized it. It never was an autopilot that he would press the button and it goes on. No, he was always describing his immediate experience. And same in my case, I can't really separate myself from those pointers that have already programmed and conditioned the system.
So sometimes they pop up also. Because, and I had that conversation with Bob as well, a natural reverence and gratitude that comes up within the dream from how that dream pain out. I was sharing with Dean and a couple of other people that, you know, Bob used to keep the pictures of Nisargadatta, a couple of them here and one in the bedroom, not because he worships the messenger. He knew beyond any shade of doubt that Nisargadatta was just another pattern. Which life appeared us no different to the pattern of thunderstorm, cat or tree. It's just the shape and form that that essence.took he wasn't superior he wasn't his guru but the natural joy of gratitude of of the natural reverence the natural appreciation that image of Nisargadatta would made him smile it was something that warmed the heart So the pictures of Bob, you know, I don't go to the bedroom to satisfy myself with that.
No, it's just a picture of something that brings the heartwarming recognition that, wow, you know, this dream character really. Been miserable, inferior, believed in human before this man entered the scene. And after that happened, life recognized equality of every pattern. Him and I were just different expression of the same life. And so is everyone else. There is no worshiping messenger. There can't be. There is no messenger. Nothing has ever happened. And yet, yes, there is a pleasant association. Absolutely. Like there is a pleasant association looking at the beautiful sunset or experiencing wind in my hair. So. And I can't, again, I can't separate. I found Bob's pointers, especially the brilliantly put one line.which he perfected for like half a century, unbeatable.
Like who could ever put it in more punchy, brilliant way? Not to use it is almost depriving. Not that I choose to use it or not use it. It just come up. But to just even try to contrive it and select them out of the natural flow of description of what is happening presently would be almost like, you know, like impoverishing the possibility that the pointer pointers, the pointing offers. So thank you, Anthony. But yes, it's most likely he will be popping out of my mouth because, well, maybe not. I don't know. Anyone? Or maybe anyone on Zoom would like to unmute and contribute something, say something or ask something or dispute.
We have six people here, seven because there's a couple. Everyone's quiet. How about you, sir? Quiet's good. No, no. Give us a little contribution. So, I'm not going to say something. I can just say.Just on the loneliness that Belinda mentioned, because there is that sense of there's just that one thing, you're feeling into it, and this is all a projection, then there is kind of, maybe it's just the mind looking at that, but there is that sense of, wow, that's a bit scary, that's a bit lonely. Like there is nothing else. So I'd love to hear other people's perspective on that loneliness, that there is only that one thing.I had an interesting experience this week, and I resonate a lot with what you shared about loneliness.
And in my direct experience, I've come to know at the present moment that loneliness for me was fear of connection. So it had two parts. Part of me wanted connection, but another part of me feared it. And at my local gym, we have a wonderful cleaner, and she lost her job this week. And she said, can I get a photo with you and your husband? Because I don't know when I'll see you again. I thought it was quite sad. So we talked about it a little bit. And I got so used to looking at someone and looking like I'm listening and not connecting and hearing what they're saying.
And it goes through one ear and out the other side, like processing it with my mind and not actually seeing what they're saying to me. And she said, you know, they've got contracted cleaners now and, you know, my last day's on Friday. And I don't know what happened, but I know that after a really long time that morning, I read Nisa Gadatta's words. And the energy that he, you know, brings to consciousness has been such a...blessing in my life. And so if there was a connection between being in that energy that morning and the conversation with this lady, in a split second, I looked into her eyes and it was just the most profound experience.
It was like, oh my goodness, I see you. I see you. And in that moment, that's the opposite of loneliness. There was connection. And when I was looking into her eyes, she said to me, in all my stress and fear of not having a job and how I'm going to feed my kids, I feel so blessed by the human connectedness. And in that moment was the moment I locked eyes with her. And it just, it's done something to me. It could be that it's reminded me of who I am and that I am her, she is me, and we are all. And so back to this idea of loneliness.Is it a fear of true connection with yourself, yourself being you and everyone around you, that?
Do I fear that on a subconscious level? Am I allowing myself to really connect with me, who is you, who is us? It's scary. Connection is so scary. But in that moment, the humility I felt to realize that there is nothing different between me and you. I don't know, it just did something for me. And I just feel like, you know, when you asked, I thought maybe I'd share because I had that experience from going from loneliness to be to connecting. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you.No, no, no. Yeah, not sure what to say. Yeah, isn't it where a non-duality meeting and there's all these pointers and all these like insights and discussion and looking andIt seems pretty obvious that there's no formula for how to live a better life, how to live a more peaceful life, a calmer life, a more authentic life.
There's no formula on how to... Be less lonely or more lonely or see things truly or freely or correctly or rightly or more true or higher or lower. It just seems, and even the teaching themselves, like the teachings, the pointers, there are many pointers and all giving the opportunity for some glimpses and insights and revelations, maybe some neurobiological changes that may occur or many other changes. And it's funny, this non-duality, I think, Like everything actually drops away. Like there's an energy of using the mind to understand, work out, clarify, see, heal, create, discover, freedom, and all this kind of stuff. Sort of becomes futile. It sort of collapses and things just start to maybe become clearer that there'sis that, well, firstly, what is this mind that, you know, Bob used to say, what is mind apart from thought?
In neurobiology, for instance, like the mind, no one knows what a mind is, but they've found different parts of the brain attributed to different emotional states, different thinking areas of morality and judgment. But no one's actually found a mind as such. No one still understands this animating sort of presence of consciousness that illuminates and allows the livingness, the aliveness to actually function. And so... So eventually, you know, like you realize that there's no answer to be found in the mind, not even a pointer. A pointer is a word and words pointing to something. And the something is not... It's not conceptual. It can't be found in the mind itself.
So eventually there has to be some sort of collapsation of the whole system as such, the whole seeking pattern to seek. Because who is seeking? Like you may be coming from a very authentic or really honest place and, you know, I'm a dean in a body who's been brought up this way and that way and I'm...annually looking, I'm an earnest seeker, I'm a whatever, or I've come this far and I've discovered this much and now I can see glimpses and then it comes out and then I get caught in the world and all this, everything, everything, everywhere you turn, everywhere you look. It's another concept.
It's a concept about a concept or a more refined or a higher level concept or you think we're getting higher or better or clearer. And there is no higher, better or clearer. And eventually all systems. All systems collapse because there is only this. And this is unnameable. It's unfathomable. Within it is all, like you look at time, you look at doership, you look at all the big non-dual sort of questions, and they are all immediate. They're all now. And they are all... conceptual, all of them. There's no time without mind. There is no doership without mind. There is not, everything is that movement of mind.
And so eventually, can we see like we come to, we sort of, or we don't come to, it doesn't really matter where we come or don't come. But, you know, the only way through it is...full stop, you know, and no answer of absolute, there's nothing that can satisfy in the machinations of what the mind and conceptually can produce and create. And there is no limit to what the mind can produce or create either. So there is no lasting benefit. So somehow, maybe like the endless effort to try and resolve it somehow through that mechanism, which actually created the suffering to begin with, can become... The beginning and the end of itself, which it never really was anyway.
And what does that even mean? That means that what seemed to be once real, like it seemed to be a story of a dean and a you and a me and a her and a good and a bad and a right and a growing and getting older and smarter and wiser and dying and the world and the cosmos. And everything that goes on is like, wow, every bit of it is a concept, every single bit. And so what remains? Like the slate is wiped. And you could say that we would observe that. Well, observe the observer. And then observe the observer of the observer. I mean, it's, there's no, even that is not going anywhere.
There's no solution. There's no.actual way in which anything can be resolved. And yet, here we are. And, you know, what did they say? The biggest problem with communication is the belief that it took place. So it seems like we're talking here amongst ourselves, we're having this discussion, and really, is really any... Anything actually going on. I mean, and to recall it has to be another thought, doesn't it? It has to be a memory, it has to be a recollection of something. And in that recollection, there's time, there's birth and death and life and good and bad and the whole gamut appears again. And you go to sleep.
And everything's wiped. And then you wake. And then the waking, oh, there's a me, there's a bed, there's a feeling, there's a sensation, there's a body, I'm a dean, I'm the good guy. Oh, no, I'm the dickhead. And there's a room and there's a house and there's a suburb and a continent and a universe. All of a sudden, yes, that's right. That's my place in here and that's what's going on. All of it is conceptual. Every little bit is the mind creating it, building it. The whole mind is the duality. It's the interrelated opposites at play. And then like this Maya or Leela or... Whatever it's been described as, is a play, is an absolute play.
The whole show is a play, every bit of it. There's nothing that's outside the play. And it's like play, play.Yeah, I think that's about all we've got to say for now. I'd say something on that. It's like Hamlet, isn't it? It's the play within the play. It's all, as you say, all conceptualisation. And I love what you're saying about the seeker. Yeah, looking for the truth and trying to find out. What reality is and then you realize there is no seeker when you're doing that exploration. It's all conceptual and the mind or the concepts are the problem, but what is the problem? I mean, yeah, it's space a problem, is the universe a problem?
Existence or love or anything else a problem only to the mind. And then I used to love that question that sometimes would come up, who am I? Ask yourself, who am I? And the immediate answer is, well, I am, you know. I'm me or I am. And the question, you're actually asking the question of who is asking the question. The question is the answer to the question in a way. I'm asking the question, who am I? You can't get your head around it. A non sequitur, there's no answer to the question. It's like something I read, I think it was in Eckhart Tolle, the story about thethe Cretan, the guy says, well, who are you?
And he says, I'm a Cretan, but all Cretans are liars. So is he a Cretan or not? Is he a liar? And if he isn't a Cretan, he's lying if he says he is. There's no answer to the conundrum. So, yeah, where's the problem? There'd be a problem without the thought that there's a problem. Exactly. Is it even possible? Can the thought, I think, think? You know, can it be? Can it be? How can it be? If there's no question about it, how can there be a problem? Moses said to the burning bush, who are you? And the burning bush replied, I am that I am.
And he said, who can I say sent me? Tell them I am sent you, you know. You know, what brought me here? You know, I'm here and, oh, I brought myself here or God brought me here or whatever. There's no answer to what brought me here.It's too spooky to think about. Who's thinking about it? That was beautiful, the whole exchange, really, really, really lovely. Bringing up the whole aspect of imagination, overlay, imaginary, all the mental images and thoughts and concepts, overlaying this immediacy with which there is absolutely nothing wrong, ever. Unless the subscription to that overlay, belief in that imaginary concepts, seeps in and that belief is the life essence moving as it does.
We have a comment here. And by the way, I love Maureen the way you actually described the collapse of the separation. It was so lovely. The sense of loneliness, because this is Anthony says, aloneness. In a way, the one can seem alone. As it's one without a second, our concepts of loneliness doesn't apply to the one, just wanted to mention that as loneliness was brought up. And yes, there are many ways of looking at that, you know, because what's loneliness? That's an idea. But if you actually see themind as this incredibly brilliantly set navigation aid which helps the whole system without which God couldn't see, hear, taste, touch and smell.
This navigation, this narrative system and this, you know, scanners and radars, they're looking out for ways to have the life being safer and more improved, always expressing the love of being. If that one reports, oh, it's a little cold. And then the action comes up to take a jumper and put it on. Or that one reports, oh, it's a little bit contact deprived. And then it may put the action, okay, maybe I'll join a Zoom or maybe I'll go to a yoga class. Those things, on one hand, yes, you can see how the sense of loneliness is maintaining the boundaries and feeling that there is something lacking.
But if there is something lacking, it is also that love of being saying, well, look, you know, there is a possibility for that dream to be a little bit more pleasant. And nothing wrong with that either. This one also calls for appreciation. If there is cold, I'll put the jumper. If there is hot, I'll put the fan or something. If there is a little bit, if there is not enough of a human contact, well, okay, I'll join the class or something. But again,that's that's whatever is happening within the dream because apart from the dream what Maureen was saying you know the sense of loneliness exists as a label put on the vibrational pattern of of the energy which somehow creates the boundary and that aspect of fear yes the connection can challenge it can and can it can challenge the integrity of that uh that whole system that whole biocomputer which is wired to preserve its safety and Well, not looking very far away, my mother got to a really, really bad position by constantly questioning her boundaries and allowing the psychopathic abuser to take advantage and she would doubt her own.
Instincts the instincts of the whole machine but this is the this is the breaking down of someone very very skilled in in us in that so the natural fear of connection is also love of being And the longing for connection is also love of being. And now, again, taking a step back and seeinghow that body-mind machine acts out, how it is programmed, it may step into an abusive relationship because it doesn't have scripts, it doesn't have protection. It may happen and it does happen. It happened around, it happened to people to find themselves out in the connections that were dangerous, abusive. That's the part from the life's perspective of experiencing and expressing as everything.
And that is also to be seen as such. That is sometimes, you know, when we look at the life of Jesus ending up on the cross or life of Buddha, completely changing. And then those are all stories. And we can use the stories for inspiration, pointing, changing completely his course and his destiny of being a prince in a palace because he saw suffering. He saw the sick, the old and the dead. Sometimes, you know, facing the suffering, suffering of this body-mind machine of a toothache or abandonment or trauma or abuse or facing a suffering of any reflection arising in a consciousness, suffering of the animal or a suffering of anything and anyone.
Is again the way the dream unfolds to show more of the magnificence of that omnipresentomnipotence omniscience more of the room for love and appreciation that arising from seeing that incredible creativity of that which arises and also to look back and see the same in the projector so it is like what an incredible dream to just keep recognizing, keep recognizing that one life or keep seeing that there is no thing that ceases and still the seeing arises right in front to be appreciated, to be experienced fully, to be acknowledged. To be allowed not even i don't use those words as any action because life doesn't need to act ocean doesn't wave it doesn't do the waving the waving is its nature the god does not create creativity is its nature is the nature of that essence to show up in the 10 000 ways It doesn't do it.
It is its nature. And at the same time, its nature is to be the cognizing emptiness, to be, to just be, the being, the beingness. So all of it, all of it, inseparable. Go on, Cleve. I was just thinking about that.you know, the word hope, I often think about what hope is and people think, well, it's that I hope something changes for me or something. But I feel as if hope is really holding up in this beingness, everything changes all the time and all possibilities are open really. We feel hopeless and we feel there's no possibility of a situation changing and yet everything really does change.
Sometimes we feel like we've got to protect our own imagined identity or whatever it is. I think about what you were saying about connection and I remember talking to someone who was psychotic ages ago and how threatening that felt when you listen to them explaining the universe as they saw it, you say, hey, right, this is really wacky stuff. And there's an instinctive pushing back against it because it's very threatening to what you think makes sense. And also, you know, that whole thing of being gaslit, people telling you stuff that makes you doubt your own foundations and your own beliefs. But really it's just all, it's all just thinking in the end, it's all just identifying with ideas.Yeah, that's it.
And then what an incredible, what an incredible adventure. You know, it's like, it's just a ride, but it wasn't a ride, it was a dream. Go on, Michael. That was beautiful, sharing on the connection, because if like that, there's a recognition there can't be a boundary between this and this. Like it's got no boundaries, no edges, no dimensions. Yeah. So how can there be a separation? And so if there's a recognition of that connection, of that being me, then there can't really be fear either, can there? Fear if you really, truly step into that connection. And so it's all the mind really pushes back against that and that conditioning and the...
Growing up with setting boundaries and being afraid for your own survival. So that's what sets up all those boundaries. What do you think you're a... Yeah. Pairs of opposites, right? That's how the whole thing works. Bob was always talking about pairs of opposites. You want it, you don't want it. You long for it, you push it away. It's constantly this way, you know. It's all concepts, thoughts, words, all the labelling stuff. It's a, you know, don't try and fit.Just see through it. Watch the mind, see how it works. But then there's nothing. If you drop all concepts, all ideas. It's all empty. It's empty. It's all empty.
What are you going to do about it? Make it better. Make it better. And changing happens without any change maker. Nothing stays the same. The only rule in that whole beautiful dream is that it is ever changing, never changing. What's changing is the dream. What doesn't is the reality. And that's that. Found last words. No, this is the family.Thank you, everyone. Yeah, thank you, Kat. And your name is beautiful. Yeah, thank you. Good to see you guys. And we have a few more people who we just waved to and say goodbye. And thank you for hanging out with us on Zoom.