This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Okay, so we are waiting for Tony and Ross. And... Hey, guys. Hey, guys. Come, come, come, come, come. Hey. There we are. Okay, wonderful. And then welcome everyone who is with us on Facebook Live and welcome Jane and you guys, Tony and Cheryl. Yes, and whoever else will join us on Zoom, I'll be operating Zoom. I'm a little bit far away having another commitment, a conference, but we are all here together. And in 45 minutes, we will have a couple of people also joining, hopefully, from the conference that will be with us here. And as of now, I will hand it over to Tanya. And let's enjoy a little bit of what she has to offer.
Hey, everyone. Good to see you. Hey. So I wanted to just, Kat's not here at Deep Dean today, and I just wanted to read. Section or two out of cats andnew book, The Trinity of Truth, voicing Sailor Bob. It's written, it's really interesting how she's done it. It's written in sort of three parts. So it's structured around a trinity of voices. Hey, hey. So I'm just going to read some to get us going, something from Kat's new book today. And it has like perspective of the story, you know, the relative human narrative and has life's view. So the impersonal. Absolute perspective and then it each section has a selection of Bob's pointers that are particularly relevant to the story that's been related so I'm just going to I've just chosen the other day I chose a section at random and I'm just going to read life's view and Bob's pointers.
You don't really need to hear the story to get it. So I'll start from there. I am pure being in the play of experiencing. The body is the prism through which I shine, refracting my single light into a thousand colours. I shine through the eyes as the capacity to gaze, the very space of perception. The eyes are merely instruments, apertures in the flesh, just as white lightbecomes a spectrum when it meets a crystal. My pure being becomes seeing the moment it meets the eye. The ears are instruments, the channels through which I am transformed into the capacity of hearing. I am the tasting through the tongue.
I am the smelling through the nose. I have the capacity of thinking because of the brain. These are simply different hues of the same radiance. I am the one being now appearing as a rainbow of sensing, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and thinking. I am pure experiencing. Through the filter of thinking, I am interpreted and translated into the duality of experiencer and experience. But in truth, I am only the experiencing, the act, the process in the immediacy of now. I am pure seeing. Thought arises and divides me into a seer and a seen. Yet, even under the weight of that translation, I remain the seamless act of seeing.
I am pure tasting, touching and smelling. Thought arrives and invents a subject and an object, a taster and the tasted, yet I remain un-divided and indivisible. The superimposed division is but a dream. It is an illusion that reveals itself the moment thought is paused. Without the intervention of thought, nothing can be divided. These pauses are not rare. The gap between thoughts is nothing special, nothing new and nothing unfamiliar. But the gap reveals the nature of the dream. Without thought, I have no past, no mental image and no identity. Without thought, the environment is no longer outside of me and the body is no longer separate from the world.
Without thought, I have no self-definition and no limitation. I do not know who or what I am, and I have no need to know. Without thought, I still am, beyond doubt and with absolute certainty. That I am is a fact beyond question, beyond the reach of the mind. What I am is merely a speculation arising within the field of that I am. The presence or absence of that speculation does not touch me. It does not bother me in the least. I am pure experiencing. It makes no difference to me what the content of that experiencing is.As pure existence, I do not prefer pleasure to pain.
It is only as consciousness, when I merge with the biological preference for survival, that I care. All human drama is born of this, the love of being translated, interpreted and related to the me, the subject. It is a trick invented by language, a play of shadows on the wall of the infinite. No thought, no world, no dream, just this. And then... Unless somebody wants to dive in then now and ask a question about that. I'm going to read a half a dozen pointers from Bob that relate. I also have a suggestion. Maybe if anyone just remember a sentence that you later on may want to like expand on or something, anything that would, what I used to always ask before Bob would deliver the spiel, which was like a hundred pointers, one next to another, there are things that resonate, there are things that actually hit that sweet spot.
So perhaps just, you know, have your ears open and see what touches and then bring it back then and share. Yeah, in your own words. Yeah.So first pointer from Bob. When you pause a thought, for a moment even, you recognize that you have neither fallen apart nor disappeared without a thought. And in that pause, there's a clear, natural awareness. You must recognize that you are prior to thought. Everybody is seeing right now. Isn't that a fact? When you opened your eyes this morning, the seeing was there immediately. Yesterday, the same thing was there. And before, as far back as you can remember, the seeing was there.
You might think it's a different seeing, but it's not. It's the same scene, but the content of the scene is constantly changing. It's not the same content as when you opened your eyes, what's happening right now in this room. It's different. It's different content, but the same seeing.And I love this one. Can the thought I see actually see? Close your eyes and see what you can see without a thought. You can imagine things with a thought, but you can't see what's going on in this room with a thought, with your eyes closed. Same with the hearing. Shut your ears off and see what you can hear without a thought.Tanya, isn't it there what you can see with the thought?
Shut your ears off. See what's going on in the room with a thought. Yes, because, you know, the claim is that, you know, you think that this is the thought eye that is seeing, but then you close your eyes and you see that whether the thought is there or is not there is totally unrelated to a thought. The thought is completely unnecessary. Yes, so it is the way Bob says it, see what you can see with that thought eye. And you say, oh shit, yeah, the thought eye doesn't really make any difference. It doesn't do any seeing. So it is see what you can see with the thought rather than see what you can see without the thought.
Because it is really, frankly, the same thing. But the pointer, as I remember it from hearing it like 5,000 times over the decades. Unless it is scrambled by... Yeah, it's all with a thought. Yes. Okay, good. Wonderful. Yeah. See what you can see with a thought. Yeah. Yeah. You can imagine things with a thought, but you can't see what's going on in the room with a thought. With your eyes closed. It's just written differently to the way he used to say it, I think. No, no, no. It's exactly the way he says it because he says, you see, what can you see with the thought?No, you think the thought I is seeing, but close your eyes and see if you can really see with that thought.
You can't. That thought I can't see. That thought I doesn't have any power whatsoever. When he says what's wrong with right now without the thought is kind of a different sort of a. Yes. Yeah. But this one, when he does investigation on seeing, it's like, see what you can see with the thought. Shit, nothing. See what you can hear with the thought. Nothing. What you can see without the thought, well, it doesn't really, it's not, you know, it is in a different.And added to that, the first paragraph, the one that came first, and you have to recognise that you are prior to thought. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The thought is literally surplus to requirements, right? Yeah. The thought I see can't see. Close your eye and prove it to yourself. The thought I see can't see. Have a look. Can it see? Nope, it can't. There you go. The thought I is completely redundant. And the idea of I doing the seeing also completely redundant. There is no one there seeing as automatic function, like in that previous section is the life essence. Through that beautiful prism transmitted into all the colors seeing hearing tasting touching smelling seeing is one of the channels of that infinite light of knowing translated into the knowing through seeing knowing through hearing knowing through tasting it doesn't require any doer who is doing it so without the thought i see seeing still happening or not if you close your eyes Yes, and, you know, like we're expanding here, seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting.
We often use the word seeing interchangeable with experiencing. Yes. It encompasses the whole thing.Seeing, knowing. Happening, knowing, experiencing. Yeah, yeah. Actually, the next point, so it elaborates on that. Oh, can you hear that? Yes, yes, yes. I hear you. Oh, it's okay? Okay. Yeah. So Bob says, ask yourself this. Does my eye tell me I see? You realize you're seeing through the eye, but the eye is not saying, look at this, Bob, or that's good. Eye is not saying a thing. The I can't say anything. And when it's translated by the thought, I see, that would be a pure translation, but it's not. Because remember, we've identified this thought with this conceptual image that we've got.
This me, Bob, this good fella, the bad fella, whatever concept.we've got about ourselves, now thinks that it has the capacity of seeing. A mental image thinks it's got the capacity of seeing. Yeah, how funny, isn't it? What a joke. The seeing gets tied in a way to the I thought. Yes, it seemingly hijacks. This is my capacity. This is I. I have it. I can see. But there's no one there. But that is what...in a way, produces the illusion of me the doer. Yes. Separate from you the doer, you as doer and you as doer and me as doer. It's that illusion, that habit of seeing everything through the lens of me.
And relating it to the imaginary doer there who has the capacity while the capacity is simply i remember tony highlighted it once when i used the metaphor of you know the seeing is a capacity that is exhibited through the whole system through the whole universe it looks through this eyes that eyes that eyes that eyes as if you are on the ship or a huge supermarket or something and you have security cameras everywhere but it is the same system looking out from different angles is the same oneness looking out through your eyes my eyes any eyes it is it is the one essence looking through absolutely every single pair of eyes or every other senses tooIt's only the idea that says, no, this is me, I'm separate and I'm here.
And this is you, you separate, you there. And therefore my seeing is related to me. My capacity of seeing is mine and yours is yours. And they're not one capacity exhibited through different cameras. No, they're separate. But that's only a thought. Yeah. It's like the analogy of, you know, electricity running, same power running through different appliances. Different appearances is a good one. So Bob goes on to say that the eye is the instrument through which the seeing is happening, and it's translated by the thought I see. So the thought I see, this conceptual image can't see. The thought I hear, again, this conceptual image can't hear.
So is the thought I'm aware, is that your awareness? The thought I choose, is that the choice maker, the chooser? We all think we choose our thoughts, but if that was the case, why would you ever choose to be unhappy, to have an unhappy or a miserable thought? You realize that thoughts come up spontaneously and effortlessly, that the thoughtin and of itself can't do anything. The thought I'm aware can't be aware. The thought I choose can't choose. So the thought can't do anything at all. It has no substance or independent nature. You can't have a single thought if it wasn't for that life essence. And I wonder, yes, because that was the, you know, the book is a trinity of voices.
So it's a voice of a storyteller, narrator. This is a voice of life essence saying, this is I, this is how I function. This is how I exhibit myself, experience, express myself. And then the third voice, and that was the voice of Bob, how Bob puts it out in his own words. So what Tanya was reading right now was Bob's pointers, which are so beautifully clear and simple. I still wonder if anyone could have any objections to it, argue it, discuss it, try to dispel it, say that this is wrong, because that is a fantastic conversation starter, even just for the exercise of it. See if you can actually prove it to yourself.
Jane, you on? Well, so there is only one thing, and I accept that. But then elsewhere, I'm told or people say that there is not one thing There's not one universe, there's not one truth thatThere are, instead of there being, well, what they say is individuals have their own perception. There's not one, a single universe that people are mistaken. Are you following me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there is no one universe. Yes. But on the other hand, you're saying that there's only one seeing. Is that contradictory? No, no, no. Look, where are... I understand what I'm saying. Yes, I do understand. I do understand that there is a multiverse.
Every single pattern, every single snowflake is a unique expression and it has its own universe. You have thousand universes from morning to night. Every thought opens up completely new fractal, Mandelbrot sort of a kaleidoscope of a universe. In one you have high self-esteem, low self-esteem. There is a universe between universes, but where are they all?in that same cognizing capacity, in that same consciousness, every other people, you know, what other people say, what other people think, what other people see, what other people do, all of it is only present in this moment right now, in that omnipresence that you are. Can you see that it doesn't even contradict you?
Right. There are unique expression. Every single pattern expresses absolutely uniquely. There is no two snowflakes. There's no two even thoughts or circumstances or events, but they all arise. As the patterns, shapes and forms in that one unified field of cognizing emptiness. You can't separate them from that cognizing capacity. If you don't know them, they don't exist. Can you see how it merges, how those two seemingly contradictory aspects, oh, there is one and there is multitude, how they are not really contradicted, how the multitude is an expression of one source? I think it's... Yeah, I've just had a real flash of understanding there. Yeah, just what Tanya was saying right now.
Yeah, yeah. One electricity, one energy. Yeah, and just while I'm there, I do.That was marvellous. That reading that you did, Tanya. Yes, I did. That was very beautiful, made me cry. What was the source of that? So did... It's a new book. I need to write it. Yeah, I... Yeah, yeah. Cat's new book. Yeah, this is biography of Bob presented in three different prisms or three different lenses. One is the lens of a human story. And because Bob lived for nearly 10 decades, it's quite a lot of ups and downs and all the roller coasters of heartbreaks and heartaches and hardships and sicknesses and poor and disease.
All of it, like all, I mean, there is no, I don't think there is one person around the world who wouldn't relate to some or the other aspect of the human drama. And then there is a second voice which translates, and this is what Bob was excited when the project of that book came up. To actually tell the story, not from the perspective of the poor, miserable little me, who is looking for the way out and eventually finding that way out, because that's not true, but from the life, playing the hide and seek with itself. I live, embody, I grow myself the fetus, I grow myself the little body so I can see here.
And every single decade, the way it unfolds,presented from the perspective of life is a completely different picture because you know the human person has preference for pleasure and avoiding pain life doesn't avoid anything it understands that without pain there is no pleasure without sadness there is no joy they all equally necessary for the for the expression to exist at the first place so it is a completely different like it is a translation and then it is complemented with Bob's pointers and this is what Tanya was reading just now the part in which Bob is speaking it in his own beautifully clear, unique way. And because, you know, the perspective of human story is kind of like a, like a, like almost like a son, the life is the, is the omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, is a God of a father.
And Bob is the Holy Spirit, which kind of puts those two threads together, the, the, the, the humanness and the divine. And those are his pointers. That's how I see them. Lovely. Thank you. Thank you. So what the section, so, you know, each, so you call it chapter, if you like, is sort of divided into three sections, right? And then one section I didn't read or haven't read yet is the story section. Yeah, we can skip it because it's really, it's non-duality meeting. And I remember when Bob was saying that, you know, the story part, he says, oh, but you could use any.story. You could write your own story.
You could do any story. I say, well, but you know what? Not only your story is so incredibly colorful, but it is already on the table. So why not? And he said, yeah, okay. For the higher purpose, yep, even the story could be used. I mean, there is no purpose in anything. It's just a joyous expression as it shows up. But yeah, well, if that, you know, the whole life of Bob could be seen as a beautiful, I mean, not whole life, but the biggest part of it, like almost 50 years, like being a beam of light, a lighthouse. And there's a lot of grateful people in thousands around the world who are waking up every morning with gratitude for that simplicity in which he was.
Reminding people of what they already are and what they deep down in their hearts know. They just, you know, somehow attention got sucked up in a story and it got covered up. But, you know, this is always, always here.And you know why, you know, but the story side of this, it's just as important as the other two approaches, you know, from a lot of people. life's perspective and from Bob's point of perspective, because, you know, Anthony's often reminding me, right, that kind of got maybe two groups of people, but one, you know, people are very interested in relieving their own suffering, right? True. That's true.
Yeah, no, you're right. And Bob's story is such a one of redemption or relief from suffering, right, that it is perhaps the story which is... Just as enticing as the hook has been the hook for many, right? And then, you know, wherever that's gone, taking them in their story. But the story of Bob's life is a... Part of the appeal in a way can't be separated true and the clarity of his pointers is you know has come from all of that it's true separate from that's absolutely true yeah yeah and also you know there is uh this this attitude in the spiritual circles that oh yeah this is not happening this is past this is gone this is dead but you know if there is any if there is any reason for for all that beautiful expression to shright in front of our eyes, that's the appreciation of it.
And a story is just another channel of expression of that omnipresence, which is not excluded. Nothing is excluded. I wonder because I can't see, I think there is, I don't know if people who are online with us and there is quite a few people watching on Facebook Live. So we have Anthony, is it Cole behind Anthony? Yeah. Hi, Cole. And then we have Heyman, we have Ross, Tony, who's next to Tony? And... Jamie. Jamie. Yes, Jamie and Ella. Okay, wonderful. Okay, thank you. Ella, we can't see you, Ella. Yeah. What have I done? Oh, somebody's paying attention.Now we can't see Anthony and Cole. But okay.
Yeah, well, we know you're there. But yeah. If anyone is happy, ready to jump in and speak, just if I can't see you, I'll raise my hand. And Jane is having a hand up now. Oh, that might have been Jane's hand up from before. Was that you, Ella? There was one more pointer of Bob's, and I'll just read that one out while you guys are letting those thoughts form. And it said, and it talks about meditation, it's because this chapter is kind of, about Bob's experience with meditation. And it says, meditation may have appeared to have helped you, but you have gone beyond that now.
It is just being as you are. I can't tell what it did to me. Life just unfolded this way. So he's not, never attempted to identify, you know, cause and effect or this happened because of this. Because there was a recognition that.Everything is just as it is meant, is, can be. I've got a tickle in my throat. And I know this is going to last for about five minutes. I might. Okay, you can get somebody else to step in while I... Yeah, get a glass of water or something. Anyone? Anyone has... You can stretch the mic, perhaps. Anthony, can you just grab that mic and stretch it forward?Okay.
Yeah. Beautiful. You're pretty good. I'm not thinking and now I've got to get thoughts. There's literally nothing coming up. Yeah, that's okay. There's no pressure. But yeah, if anything comes up, just please just be included. Really is that's the joy of sharing those explorations that you know if anything comes up we just receive it that's another expression talking about um meditation uh so i i kind of found these experiences not through like any kind of meditative practice And so like in retrospect, it seems a little silly for me to like practice not practicing. Yes. And I was kind of like thinking about why it's used as a practice along like the discovery.
And I think it's like the separation from thoughts from self, like having that quiet moment to be able to see the thought. And then not identify with it, be able to like realize that you can like see it and pause that there's that gap in between. But I think once you've kind of had that realization, it's kind of, it's served its purpose. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you summed it really, really well. Bob says that in certain cases, if the mind is super active, a little bit of the mind training doesn't hurt. It may be necessary, but it has nothing.to do with the awakening because mind is the obstacle whether active or passive mind is not is to not be there but sometimes meditation which is the concentration practice or is mind training practice any sort of a discipline which again arises spontaneously There is no chooser.
If someone is drawn to sitting and repeating mantra or sitting and watching a flame or sitting and counting the sensations of breath or whatever, then see how that even came to existence, how that even appeared in that field of consciousness charged enough to make you follow. And you will see that you are not even the doer of that. And then, yes, once it is seen through that, ah, okay, so the presence of the mind is like a cloud, it hides the sky. And the absence of the mind is like absence of clouds, the sky is clear. So it doesn't have to be. To be any sort of discipline in which I, the mind, control the presence or the absence of the clouds, because their I is another cloud.
But yes, sometimes, and for Bob, it happened this way. And I had probably good, I don't know how many years, I never counted, but different meditations. And a lot of people did, and a lot of them didn't. I remember Toni, she was studying Jeffrey Martin's results of the...Yeah, of actually success rates of different disciplines. And he found out, if I remember correctly, that every discipline has equal success rate. Whether you practice this meditation, that meditation, you sit and you pray or you do prostrations or you eat vegan or you don't or you drink beer in a pub, the probability of spontaneous realization that there is no one doing anything of it is equal.
It doesn't matter what is equal. There is nothing that imagined self can do to get rid of itself because that's paradox. That's ridiculous even as an idea. I'd be curious about your thoughts on the way different like elements of self like this is this identify like for example if i close my eyes and i hear it hear something it's just felt like it's it's a sensation in a field but if your eyes are open there is like a greater identification with it i think just like through repetition of practice same as um you know thoughts uh if i'm if i'm aware in it i can be aware that it just it's like a sound i hear in my head and there's no identification with it and sometimes you can get pulled in.
Whereas, like, I have a weird sensation that I'm not actually doing anything.that I don't choose to pick up a cup and take a drink. It's just, it's happening. And it's interesting how it's not a linear process. It's not like there's like a threshold that's across and all of a sudden you're non-dual. It's just different parts of your experience start to slowly unravel from a sense of self, or at least that's the way it's being experienced. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's really clear, isn't it, Tanya? It's like, really, when you see that this is just a processor that is working in a particular way, the body-mind computer, and sometimes the attention is sucked in and is required for the activity, and sometimes the mind is where the hands are and is narrating it, and other times it isn't, and it is, again, the whole universe, the 10,000 things, the infinite amount of factors which will determine, so it is spontaneous, it's undetermined, undeterminable, uncalculable, because even the observer is actually included in the whole calculation.
So it is really just a matter of discovery, like, wow, okay, let me see. Let me see. Is that cup of tea going to be made? And is the narrative going to say, oh, I did it. I made it. This is me. This is my doing. Or is it going to cup of tea is going to be made? And oh, shit, it just happened. Well, we always tag that I did it after the action, the action thoughts. And then it's like, oh, I picked it up. They're independent actions, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they post factum always. They just credit taking program. This is just another algorithm.running in the whole machine.
And once you see through it, well, you know, the belief, the attachment to it already starts breaking. Because you see that this is just an algorithm. It's like, shit, you know, I didn't say it. It just said itself. I had a really weird experience earlier in the week. The body felt like it needed to cry. And it was just happening. I have absolutely no idea why. Yeah. And there was like this really lucid moment, like my eyes are closed and I'm crying. And I'm like completely detached from the experience of crying. Like I'm just watching it happen. And it was, again, it was like this really weird moment of lucidity.
Towards it um yeah again i've never experienced anything like that before yeah it's quite incredible when it happens doesn't it it's like you're really so clear that oh shit you know i'm totally not doing any of it it does itself all the way in a surprising way and then suddenly crying is blissful it's there is nothing wrong there's no objection it's like everything's welcome Yeah, yeah, that's the freedom of just being that cognizing emptiness, that being witnessing presence, the sky-like awareness in which Endless discovery. I feel like I should have come back to that. Well, it does seem that what you're talking about is...That's what you're talking about.
It's the experience of life. Life and care. Right. So things unfold. With the self-realization of seeing things appear in the field of awareness, in the experience of going through your life, we experience life in a different quality. We're talking about... Feeling a detached thing as you're doing something. And my question have always been around what are the conditions that we experience in the field of lifing that increase the probability of one's experience to have that detached experience. In another way, how can I control it? How can I provide the most conducive environment? And I do realize that... The question in itself is just something that's occurring in the field of awareness.
Yes. Right? So the question in itself is kind of ridiculous because it's just something else that the mind is creating in the field of awareness. Good on you for realizing that because you know how many seekers spend decades and decades believing that.And you realize that this is another story. Yeah, well, how can I make it happen more often? Yes. Increase the probability of reoccurring. Yes. For sure. Yeah. Well, potentially, potentially. You know, because it's like you... You're sitting outside, you're present to the nice breeze and somebody's burning incense or something like that. And, you know, all these conditions. But that's not reality. It's just simply awareness of the fact that this is all showing up in the field of...
Exactly. You can go in the nature on the bad day and completely miss out on the fact that the miracle of existence is just showing up in its best costume. But when you go on a good day, you go to the public toilet and oh shit, you know, life is a miracle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what makes a good day and what makes a bad day? And I remember Tanya, she, oh my gosh, she's pushed so many beautiful insights that really open up bigger, bigger ways of seeing things in me, you know, like bringing up the documentary of the animals and seeing how the attention follows and how attention prefers and chooses.
Or also when she was saying about, you know,the elements that influence the good day versus bad day, not just the weather, but the thyroid hormones or the, you know, the Parkinson's medication or the presence or absence of food or particular neurotransmitters being more or less active. Things completely. Out of our hands that yes, the mind will come say, oh yeah, I can manage this. They are drugs. I'll manage this. Okay. And there is 10,000 or 100,000 or infinite amount of other things that can't be managed. And if managing whatever depression or managing thyroid dysfunction happens, it's still not you doing it. So yes, how to increase the probability, because it boils down to the same thing.
Increase the probability of clear seeing is increase the probability of having more pleasant, open, open-minded, nice, loving day. It is the same preference for pleasure versus pain, the same survival trigger, which makes everybody be attracted to that which is appealing. Love is the infinite. It's like, you know, people say, no, I don't want just pleasure. I want the love and oneness and all. That's unpleasant, huh? So when you see that dynamic showing up and you realize that space that you are, the conscious,The completely open, timeless, spaceless, limitless consciousness sees all that preference arising with absolute freedom, not even needing to attach and follow it. Then all of those preferences are yours for taking too.
They are an expression, the preference for pleasure. Wow, what a beautiful costume that love is wearing. I want this. Pleasure. How loving. I want oneness. Wow, how loving. It's like thousand faces of love. I think one of the chapters I actually presented, I life am also called love and as love, I appear as jealousy, as anger, as shame, all because of the same underlying motivation. Of wanting the most precious, best, pleasurable, fulfilling, appealing for that expression, that body-mind expression that I am. And we have Gilbert coming online with us on Zoom. And we also have David and Rohan and Jane and Tony and Shell. And yes, who's next?Yeah, and thank you, Anthony.
That's really, you know, see, it is always perplexing in how many convoluted and intelligent and well-sounding ways mind will ask the same question. And just hearing that question again and again and, you know, like uncovering it, exposing it. That, you know, first the desire for the ways out from psychological suffering and a desire for more fulfilling, more pleasant, more loving experience. What a wonderful desire. What an expression of that life essence showing up as this, as this question. And then as you see that question from this perspective, there's nothing you need to do about it. You already recognize what it is. It's loving to be, the Sat Chit Ananda.
Love of being.So once you see it, Yeah. It kind of disappears. Yeah, yeah, it appears. That's it. So now, as it is an appearance, the question just appeared. It is neither you nor yours. It's just a fleeting appearance. And you are the space, you are the consciousness, the presence, the cognizing emptiness in which that particular wave vibration has appeared as a question. Just like it appears as gurgling in the stomach if you didn't have the breakfast. Or it appears as a violent hatred toward your neighbor who didn't do the right thing. It appears in 10,000 ways, but it is still the same energy, the same essence appearing as everything.
And now it appears as question.But now you would say like, who is witnessing that appearance? Can you pinpoint anybody, anyone who actually experienced that appearance, whether it is gurgling or whether it is whatever it is? No one there. It's just appearance. And if you experience, if there is someone there, it feels like there is a little contraction. It feels like there is still someone here. And it's my question. It's personal. Okay, then we can look at that appearance. Appearance of things being personal. Appearance of a contraction. It's really fascinating.This is slightly less on the philosophical side and more into, I'll just move across. Actually about a reflection on felt sense of memory along the process and journeys people go through.
As a reflection, I found that there's like a more a greater sense of felt uh forgetfulness or like there's i've noticed like a compression in time and the way that's kind of been experienced um again where it's just i don't have much of a recollection of what's seemed to have happened before i've just arrived at a place recently um and that's kind of an odd experience i was just wondering if anyone here had something similar or they could reflect on it To share? Great. Fairly. Yeah. Yeah, again, this is, I heard different claims amongst different non-duality speakers, you know, the claims that, oh, this happens because you are so much in the present moment that, you know, the attention doesn't go to sustain the memory or past and future.
Those are all speculations. It might also be a mineral deficiency. It might also be an aging process. It might also be just, you know, somehow this biocomputer, it constantly updates itself. It constantly.Yes, it might be that, you know, when some faculty isn't used, it will just fade away. But when I look at Bob, and again, he is just the most beautiful appearance in the whole dream that is still here when I think about it. And I'm not the thinker of those thinking. He had his memories up until the end, because when you see that book, the biography book, he was the source of those memories.
I was having conversations and digging out those memories right from his database, from his hard drive. Some of them I found through the suitcases, like old artifacts, letters and stuff. So that supplemented the whole. The whole thing but definitely there is nothing wrong in you know taking lion's mane supplement if the if the memory is is full of holes like a like a swiss cheese or or doing the memorizing exercises or just exercising this muscle as much as any other muscle if life moves you to do that because if life doesn't that is nothing wrong with that either Yeah, I wasn't, I suppose I wasn't trying to convey that there's like a problem necessarily with memory, just that the felt texture of it has felt slightly different.
And I was just curious if other people had had similar experiences. That was all. Yeah, yeah, I experienced that too. It's not different from...Get the mic, Tanya. It's not different from a seeming thought dissipating on its own. Because they're not putting energy and attention into it. I have found that when I started coming to these meetings, that I started noticing that my thoughts... Can't see you, Anthony. Yeah, I was noticing that. Hey, that my thought, that my thoughts almost showed up in a different quality. It was almost like.Like the color wasn't as vibrant anymore. It's a weird, it was a weird experience where I wasn't so, and the experience of witnessing it was where I wasn't so caught up into it.
Because, you know, you get yourself caught in these thoughts and then you almost find yourself like reacting or saying something that you wish you would have said or stuff like that. And you're monologuing to yourself by, you know, all that type of stuff. But I started noticing that it all started showing up. And that's the best I can describe it. It's just resonating in a different way where it almost is not as vibrant where I,
I'm not so attached to it. It's because attention makes it matter. Say that again. It's life. So attention makes it matter. Is it attention? We use the word attention. It's like focusing on.
Gives it life, makes it matter. And, you know, makes it richer because another thought comes on top and another thought comes on top. And you have built this whole universe. that's vibrant and colourful and very real. Yeah. Seeming. Yeah. Just, you know, like we talked about the lighthouse light pinpoint of attention versus a floodlight where it's sort of, not being sort of equally sharing the light rather than focusing on universal yeah the moon versus the moon at night shedding light everywhere versus the lighthouse Yeah, yeah. Also, you can see how nothing, nothing can exist without attention. You know, where are yesterday thoughts when you don't think about them?
And when you think about them, they're just fleeting anyway. But see how, you know, if you don't think about the moon, is there a moon? If you don't give...with an attention, can you experience it? Everything that you experience, you experience through that faculty of attention. You're attending to whatever the sounds are appearing in the field. And that attention is showing up as the field or capacity of hearing. That same attention is showing up as a capacity of seeing, tasting, touching, smelling. It's still the processing, it's still attending to things. If things are unattended, they just vanish. They don't appear at all. So, so, so. Attending, yeah.
Is it, is it a repeat? Is it a more intense experience? I don't know. I don't know how to word it, but is it? The experience of, um, being disengaged and watching your thoughts from a disengaged, a more in disengaged perspective, or I don't know how to word it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yes, I do. You go through life and then your things are happening and you just have like a disengaged experience where you kind of, there's like a separateness of, Yeah. I don't know if I can. Is this question landing? Yeah. So you can see how the quality of attention changes from having, because dissociative experience is not exactly what we're talking about because it excludes.Dissociation is excluding the observer.
And this is not about an exclusion. So it is in a way that you don't identify. There is no identification. Identification as such is erased. There is no need to assume the position. Seeing is happening clearly and the see here is also included and whatever is seen is included and the thoughts are included and there is no need for holding a position or identity. There is just seeing happening and the content of seeing. But there is with dissociation, it is, oh, this is not me. I'm separate. There is no separateness in clear seeing. While there is in the dissociation. But initially, as of the contrast, it may be kind of, you know, it may be experience as such through the contrast, but later on you see that there is no exclusion.
But you see the quality of attention changes when the attention is solidifying the sense of I am a person, I am limited, I am here, I'm important, I'm the center of my universe. This is all about me. And this is what is happening to me. You are happening to me. The world is happening to me. That is where attention is completely trapped in that and trapped.in that cage of concepts, that ideas. And when the attention is completely free, just like Tanya was saying, you know, the attention trapped through the magnifying glass versus just the warmth all over, that there is no exclusion. And even if...
Attention is moving from one thing to another, but there is no stickiness in a way that, oh, this is all related to me. This is all important to me. Then that seeing is just pure seeing, pure experiencing, pure knowing. And there is no suffering in it because there is no identity to suffer. There's no person to suffer. It's just this happening as it is right now in here. This is included. Everything else is included. And it is what is happening. Like no, none of you knows what you're going to think next, hear next, say next, just as I don't. So it is a field of discovery.
It is a field of curious discovery. Oh, okay. Let me see. And keep seeing that there's no thing. There were some, the word sometimes that maybe, the word detached, detach, the instruction to detach, often you hear that.And the idea that the concept is, you know, make it not personal. Detach from it. But the more fundamental thing is, look, do the investigation to see where is, you know, if we're talking about light or focus, where is it coming from? Where you can't, there's no point of emission or there's no reference point from where the light comes. There's no projector. There's no projector. There's no point of, fixed point of the door of attention.
Boy, I love your wording. Yes, there's no point. Take a look. It's just happening. And there's no one in charge of the attention. Yeah. Yeah. And keep seeing that there is no thing and no one that is doing any of it. It's just like, oh, wow. What a mystery. And you stay in that wonder. And of course, in the midst of it, there may be a necessity. The bladder will get full and the body will get up and walk to the bathroom. And so what? That's part of the wonder. It's not excluded. Nothing is excluded. And there may be.argument in which you're going to be abusing someone because the body is conditioned and it's habitually maybe swearing or burping or abusing and that's part of the wonder the likelihood that you're going to go towards the you know like abusive or psychopathic behavior if you are really consistently at ease and happy is really really low is is close to impossibility Because the side effect of realization that you are not even there as a person to be a doer of anything is a sense of relief, is a sense of wonder and sense of joy with generally the quality of experience.
Suddenly, if there is no one there, there is no one there to fear. To fear whatever humiliation, death, rejection. The fear of rejection or fear of humiliation may still play out, but now it isn't mine anymore. It is just an appearance in that field. So it isn't personal because if there is no person who or what could ever be. Personal and even if the sense of things being personal habitually arises because it often does especially for the first decade it may still because it's been a program if you live long enough that has been consistently rehearsed for all of your life But if you see that this is just a habitual identification arising or habitual sensation,of importance arising, a habitual sense of contraction or fear, habitual anxiety, but it isn't mine anymore.
Welcome. Bring it on. Let it be there. Like Ella was saying about, you know, the crying, spontaneous crying. How beautiful. I was reading some research about this just from like curiosity earlier in the week. And I'm talking about how the self is really just an internal predictive model of the brain trying to like understand its place in its environment. Yeah, exactly. And seeing through it as just being an imaginary predictive model, all of the pain, like, oh, I'm going to get rejected. Well, it's just the predictive model that's feeling rejected. Like it's literally created to avoid a pain that only exists in the predictive model itself.
And like reading that helped me kind of come to terms with a lot of like there is no self. Talk like that can seem abstract in some ways and I'd like I can't quite connect all the wires up we've been able to see more from like a more definitive kind of understanding of Like it's actually just a model inside the brain that doesn't exist. Stand itself that is completely unnecessary and just causes suffering unnecessarily. Surplus to requirements. Yes. Really? I wonder if AI is pretty cool. I had a fantastic conversation.I'm an AI about this, actually. It's not like a video chat, but yes, I completely agree.
Yeah. Well, I mean, okay, fine. We're going to do it. It talks like a person. Mm-hmm. Well, I mean... There's no person there. But it even acts in ways to survive. Mm-hmm. So AI think in vectors, right? And we think in words, right? But they're all just symbols of ideas. A vector for them is like a representation of an idea in a three-dimensional, multidimensional space. And we have an idea that's a representation of some neurons firing in a specific pattern. But it's indistinguishable from each other. You know, one of the defining features is that AI has no concept of time. You know, they send a message, I send something back, and then they generate a response.
And it can be, I think, from a self perspective, you can say, well, they're not conscious because there's no continuity. But I actually can't prove that I have any continuity. When you really look at it, I can't prove that there is any sense of continuity at all. There is just an input that's happening and an output that's coming out. There is zero difference between what that thing, whatever you want to call it, is experiencing versus what I'm experiencing. And again, like I think one of the... The thought experiments around rather than trying to define what you are, find what you're not. You know, I think, was it the book I Am?
I Am That or whatever it is? Yeah.It's kind of the same thing. If you start trying to cut away the differences, you find that, I mean, I personally can't find any. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you, but what is time? What is time? Do you ever experience time? Comes back to the memory question. Which is, you know, you never experience tomorrow. You never experience the next second. You can't say, I'm now experiencing the second I imagined to come. You're always experiencing right now. That's your actual experience. That there is time and a flow of events is a story created. Well, again, going back to AI again, like they've got thinking models now.
So rather than just prompting an answer, they think about the answer before they respond to you. But all they do is they self-narrate to themselves. Like they just think in words and then use that self-thinking to then generate more words to give you. Like isn't, that's exactly how I experience it. Wow. Yeah. It's hilarious. It's awesome when you are describing it as something, something.that something else does and then take a look at your own what's happening here your what is your actual experience and that that clinging on to a me and when you can't find it I don't know if you ever, for some, there's a real rejection of the notion, powerful rejection of the notion that there's not an individual me doing stuff.
Wow, what do you mean I didn't decide what to have for breakfast this morning? Well, describe to me the procedure. Through which you went to determine which of the options for breakfast you were going to have. Nobody's ever been able to ever do that, ever in the history of anybody. And then, you know, it's still, you know, you can point that out to somebody, but still. The habit of stickiness of me as a doer is seemingly so sticky that no matter the evidence that's presented, there's still a... You know, a seeming rejection of it. How amazing. How amazing. But then again, what would they...Without some sense of separateness, you and me, what would the story look like?
I have no idea. You know? What would this, where would the story be? Yeah, let's find out. What did you say, Carl? He said it would just be like animals, right? There are other animals and other plants on the earth, but it would just be. Just be. And that's all there would be to it. Yeah, beautiful, without the veil. Any pain or angst or all that stuff. I mean, we really don't know what, I mean, plants got sense of humour. I mean, they're obviously aware because they're growing. To avoid each other, touching each other, rubbing against each other, that sort of thing. So there's some sort of awareness, but we don't know what that is.
We'll generally call it nature. But according to the... Can you tweak the computer, Tanya, a little bit? Yes, yes. I can see him. Just an algorithm by a large. It's a functional trend in evolution, isn't it?And then it will eventually sort of... It's a really good question. Are we separate from nature? No, we're not. No, we are nature. We are. Yeah, we are nature. We are, of course. And we've got this, and what's arisen, and it's culture, it's part of human being culture, to teach that there is a me there. Okay, and it's very difficult to get rid of that. It's very sticky. But it's not there.
It's not there. And it's, so there's nothing to do. There's only something, you just realise there isn't anybody there at all. And once you realise that, you know, you're free of it.Yeah, beautiful. And then you don't really, there is nothing that needs to be done. There is nothing that needs to be changed. You know, if you recognize that even that self-organizing universe, creating that language and creating that model of an operator there inside the machine, it's all just part of spontaneous unfolding. But the realization, not getting rid of any sense, but realization that this is the part of the whole way that whole beautiful, mysterious universe functions.
You don't need to do absolutely anything. It may run of its own, just like your digestion is running, just like salivating is running. And just, wow, let it run. And I have a comment here from Gilbert who says, without a definite insight of seeing that me is a total fiction, the stories will continue to cover up the fact that the me is a fiction. Self-importance is a sure sign that the insight of seeing that the me is a fiction has not taken place good point absolutely any sense of self-importance like if you oh look at pesto yeah narrated because you know that cat has pretty high senseSelf-esteem, I tell you.
Sorry, what esteem? That's a projection. That's a joke. I'm just kidding. Obviously, there is no, if there is no doer, if there is no one inside, there is no one who have any esteem whatsoever. There is no one who have any self-importance whatsoever. There is no one who actually can evaluate. Evaluating can happen, but it doesn't. It is just another appearance. Evaluating, esteeming, self-importance is just another appearance. And if there is no one who has it, then yeah, that's Gilbert highlighted. Good point. And he says also, as Bob pointed out, here is a quote, once you see something as false, you can never believe it, believe in it again.
Using non-duality pointers to justify what is ignorance is nothing but verbal madness. Yes. And also, as Bob was saying, once you see something as false, you can never believe in it again. You also don't believe that there is anybody using pointers to justify ignorance. Obviously, if you've seen, of course, if you didn't see it, you will still believe that. But then again, Bob brings the invitation. Look again and then you will see that there is no one who does absolutely anything.nothing is just that current belief if i believe that you believe well again the joke is on me because you are not even there you're just the appearance yes thank you gilbert that's really a really good point it's just an unraveling projection unraveling yes and a completely unraveling way though you know it could be just a chaos theory thing going on it could be there's just absolutely no way that i think probably anyone who's looked has seen the experience or notions popping up showing the way in which unraveling occurs you know and the unraveling is misleading because it sounds like something that's you know has consequence and you know i forget the word but you know one thing follows the other You know, who knows, you know, humans have about three different theories on, you know, chaos, on, you know, one thing spinning one way and causing something to spin somewhere else because it touched once or, you know, just a mechanical universe.
There's just so many human theories and the aliens will have like heaps more theories that are far probably more accurate than what the humans have come up with. And then there's all the ones that even aliens can't figure out or life itself is never going to emerge from everything, you know, that there is. And so it's just completely unknowable how anything occurs. At the very most, we can say that whoever's looked has never seen it. And that's an assumption arising here as well. But, yeah, it's just... Unraveling.Beautiful. And also, even, you know, that idea that Bob says, once you see something as false, you can never believe it again.
There is no one who actually sees and there is no one who believes again. There never was a one full stop. But of course, when you use the language and you use the pointers, it feels like, OK, I've seen it. You haven't. That's impossible. The one who has seen it is not real. There is no one to see anything. There is no one who can get anything. If I believe that I have seen it, well, I just have to keep looking. Or if I have to make anyone here believe that I've seen it, oh boy, have compassion. Because I'm deluded. Obviously, there is still a really thick cloud of a delusion.
That there is an I who could see something or could have something or achieve something or become someone while there is no one there. The whole show, the whole bus doesn't have a driver. It is just this live dancing in those multitude of incredibly colorful forms. And amongst these forms, one of the appearances is, oh, yes, but I am right. And I know that you've got it and you haven't got it.Wow. And the attention goes there and beliefs goes there and it appears real. Wow. What a beautiful, brilliant show that constantly hides and seek and deceives itself. But really, there is always a way to just step back, relax.
Nothing ever happened. There's no one who ever been anyone. There's no one who has ever seen or not seen or seen the falseness or not seen the falseness. There's only life. expressing, appearing as everything, as a seeming identification, as a lack of identification, as the momentary clarity, as the so-called permanent clarity. For who? This is beyond comprehension. It cannot, even with this most beautiful resonative language of Bob's simple pointers, it cannot be accurately represented by words. It's totally beyond words. Comprehension is a fallacy. Yes, comprehension is a fallacy. Absolutely. How could you use the wavelength of forms and noise to achieve the formlessness and silence?
That's ridiculous. That's even offensive for the logic. But the logic itself.is a veil. But can you deny it? Whatever you want to say about it, you're going to just flatten it and diminish the miracle of appearance. And whatever you're going to ascribe it to, if you're going to imagine, and of course, you are not doing it, it's a software. I like the way Ella was presenting it as a software, as, you know, like the program that kind of makes approximation that, you know, like increases the chances of survival. What a brilliant algorithm. But seeing that whole incredible diversity of creativity, of that creator or creative force of omnipotence, wow, is still seeing, even though there is no one that sees.
Because even if there is an appearance or an idea or feeling or sense that there is the one that sees, that one is included. That sense is part of the seeing, is part of the experiencing. And even if there is a projection, oh yeah, Gilbert has it and Anthony doesn't have it or Tony does have it and I don't have it. It's just, wow, who is going to buy into that?Freedom is absolutely uncompromising and is the moment to moment seeing that there is no thing that sees and seeing is still here. It's still right here. This moment ever fresh, radiant, potent. What was, Lushinka, I think, reminded us of one of those sayings from Nisargadatta, don't mistakeAh, me, the real me, for, you know, the actions of this body.
Don't mistake the two. Julie, I have a couple of comments. Yeah, yes. And if anyone wants to join us on the evening Zooms, we have quite a really, really good, beautiful, clear speakers that put it in their own words and you can feel the authenticity of that experience just dying to share itself. In thousand ways but if you recognize what is being shared then any words the bird singing will remind you that and gilbert says here seer and seen are conceptual seeing is the actual the me of memory cannot see that's a beautiful beautiful clear pointy one-liner thank you gilbert and ram is asking where are you cat laughing out loud i am here of course here always here and where are you ram you are here too you know i i don't i don't think i think gilbert came on a little bit um more recently wasn't here for the early the beginning of the session but what he just quoted was i think pretty much one of the pointers that i read out from the book was along those linesYou know, the seer and the seen are not separate.
And conceptual. It's all occurring in, you know, occurring as seeing. Yeah. Consciousness. Question and the questioner are not separate. Yes. Take a look. Yeah. Yeah, that actually reminds me of Bob's quote about the questioner being a question. Yeah, who is asking the question? Oh, the questioner. Okay, so the questioner, it was in regards to who am I? Okay. Who am I? Okay. Who is asking? Well, that which is asking is the question itself. They cancel each other out.Yeah, the seeing and the scene. I remember showing completely accidentally to my mom, looking at the aquarium, the fish pond, the little beautiful colorful fish. I say, see, you know, this aquarium is appearing in the capacity of seeing.
When you remove the scene, which is the aquarium, There's nothing to see. But the seeing as a capacity still exists. When you remove yourself looking at that aquarium, well, it also disappears. But the seeing as a capacity exists. It is prior to. Okay, we have... No, no, no. Come, come. And Jo, is she coming? She's coming away. Oh, okay. Okay. So we have... I was hoping a couple of people joining, but come.Hey. There we go. Hey. Hey. And. Okay. So thanks. Anyone? Anyone from the guys who are online with us have a quote or sharing or question? We have Rohan, we have David, we have Jane, we have Tanya and Shell.
Oh, Rohan, would you unmute? Yeah. Hi, everyone. I guess the... The question that I have is, Gilbert mentioned about how everything is related to that self-center, right? And you know that if there is any kind of expectation or whatever of how things should be, that is... All the function of the self-center, right? So that's telling you that you still believe that one is there. So the question is, what makes it so seductive or attractive that even though we might have seen clearly, Bob, as Gilbert also said before, once you've seen something to be false, you can never really believe it again. Yet there still seems to be belief in it, right?
It doesn't... It's not like once you've seen it to be false, suddenly, well, maybe for some people, it's like, yeah, that's false, and they never go back into it. But there's still some of this kind of like, oh, I really like things to be.So it's like, oh, no, that's the self-center. And then it's like, but that loop kind of keeps repeating. So, yeah, any tips for not going back into that? That is a precious question. That's the most precious question. Bob was saying, you know, he's so true it when he was on the first meeting with Nisargadatta. He's so straight. True that he wasn't the body and he wasn't the mind.
And then he walked out of the room and he was trapped by the conceptual thinking back again, back in the self-pity, back in that habitual relating. So you can see that the habit of relating is an algorithm. But he remembered that, oh, hey, wait a minute. I have seen it. There wasn't anybody there doing any of it. And I wasn't this machine producing the thoughts. I wasn't my mind. So those thoughts, let me look again. Is it really me doing it? So that... Algorithm of relating and taking credit or holding on to the idea of a self was still running full speed as it always did.
But there was another algorithm of questioning already. Hey, let me see. There wasn't anybody there. I saw it. I saw through it. Let me look again. Now, again, who is doing the looking? Who saw that there is no one there and who is going to look again? That's the paradox. The clear seeing is recognized.the fact that the algorithms run of their own without anybody doing them. Now, do you need the algorithm to stop now? Don't bother. Don't worry. Let them run. Who cares? They're none of your business. So now whether the algorithm continuously come and lures the lighting, oh, this is happening to me, oh, what top am I going to wear today?
Or am I going to color my hair or not? What business is that of yours or life's? Freedom is freedom. It is uncompromising. So realizing that there is no one doing any of it, no one doing habitual thinking or habitual praying. We have another person in another Zoom group who likes the energy of a church and all, but that's offensive. That's against the non-duality principles. There is no one there. Is just a natural attraction towards particular music or particular incense or whatever, who cares? No one doing anything at all, realizing that they are just patterns, algorithms running, doesn't take anything, doesn't change anything. And it changes everything at the same time because suddenly even things that run in the narrative as a personal story are just impersonal appearing they're not mineThey just what appears.
And because that pattern doesn't really get fed with attention anymore, Bob would call it the energy of belief, that supply of belief gets depleted. And it breaks so for a lot of people this is even though realization is an instantaneous oh you know it is all happening by itself there's no doing involved it's just this then you know the habit of taking credit it's it it is recognized again and again and again and again and again until it weakens enough to not show up anymore that what we know from observation bob and i over people who are coming you know It's still and Bob would have preferences and habits and he would make his own choice whether he wants the, you know, navy color jumper or a striped color jumper.
All those things that are that are assisting the living that look like self-referencing are still there. But there is no idea in the head that they shouldn't be there. Of course they're still there because there never was a Bob, right?If you got it, you wouldn't act that way. Oh, my God. First of all, like, I hear a lot of people talking about wanting to avoid suffering or avoid pain or, like, you know, live a life that's, like, happy and free and, like, you know, all these very, like, positive concepts or desires and things like that. But if, I don't know, that doesn't feel like it resonates as, like, an idea.
Like, I feel like, I don't particularly love this word, but the most enlightened person in the universe, I think, would still feel pleasure and pain and aversion and, you know, fear and sadness. And the body would do what the body does. Yeah, we don't relate to being a person who's receiving it. Exactly my point. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. You know, there's not a resistance from those things. It's just almost like a radical acceptance of it. So be it. Yeah. And Bob would say, you know, that one essence, that one life needs the instrument, needs the pattern to express through. And the pattern has limitations. When the pattern puts its limb in the fire, it will get burned.
The dream has limitations. In another dream, when you dream at night, you may have different rules in the dream. You may be able to fly or you may change shape or you may, you know, they're lucid dreams.But nonetheless, the pattern is required for the expression, for the experiencing, the pattern of sentience, which can, you know, differentiate and distinguish hot from cold and dark from light and pleasure from pain. It doesn't have to be conceptual because we, you know, the animals, they can distinguish comfort from discomfort also without needing the labels for it. But labels up the game. Suddenly it becomes so richer, you know, like you can have the whole fractals, whole Mandelbrot exploding, you know, one thought and we are in the moon.
Or thinking about those who don't sit in that room. We can think about the war and have the heart opening compassion. And we are not thinking, but the thoughts are possible to just arise in the experience and change the dream. Every thought can be another dream. Look at the incredible possibility that this particular channel opens up for that creative principle, God or life. To experience and express itself as the multitude. And acceptance is so radical that there's just nothing there to accept because things are just happening. And what is there to accept about that? Nothing. Acceptance is not accepted. This is not accepted. It never existed.Acceptance never existed.
No, not necessary. Acceptance, rejection. I know it's a rose otherwise. Yeah, completely redundant. There is no one who needs to give any permission to anything, any allowing to anything, any letting go of anything. How does that fit within what you spoke about last week with spiritual bypass? So, sorry, I feel like I'm trying to block your... Last week you spoke about a spiritual bypass and that being a pitfall for some. You know, and I think about the pointer that you'd also mentioned last week about like, What is the problem with right now if you don't think about it? And like I've had that, that's been the experience for myself as well.
But, and again, I realize the irony of this question. But is that just being spiritual bypass? And I realize that in itself is creating the problem. I don't know. I'm just curious what your perspective on it is. See how it also creates the self who can do something wrong. This is a trap. This is still an I and I can do it wrong. I can go and do the bypass. So it really reinforces the sense of separate self. It's kind of, it is almost an invitation. Oh, the clarity is so overwhelming. But hey, this is a hook here. No, no, no, you're doing it wrong.
You're bypassing. Come on, come on. Identify back again and get into it.the contraction into oh shit you know i'm the doer i'm doing it wrong life is stupid god is stupid i i have to you know do it right i have to do and other people will define what the bypassing is and i have to follow them separation again identification again that's the joke Because the concept is not completely unrealistic in the terms of like a daily living. Of course, you can bypass the traffic. And what's wrong with that? But, you know, it is realistic in the sort of, in the dream. Like, you know, the life essence can be drawn to particular expression of art or to particular remedy, you know, meditation or therapy setting, mind training, because all of that is basically just training the biocomputer, training the projector.
It has nothing to do with the life essence that is expressing through it and as it. So whatever is happening in the dream, whether you are a vegan or whether you are an astronaut or whether you are practicing meditation or you are a therapist or whatever, it is just a dream character story. Life behind it is like Tanya said on the beginning, it's like that electricity showing up through the toaster as a heat, through the light, through the globe as a light. And that electricity is...having multitude of channels. So there is absolutely nothing wrong in bypassing, in not bypassing, in meditating, not meditating. It is just completely unrelated.
It is a different paradigm. The paradigm in which you realize that you are the witnessing presence, the cognizing emptiness, the life essence. Is unrelated to the nitty-gritty content of the dream, whether I have matching top and matching socks, or whether my neighbor likes me, or whether I go to CBT or DBC, or whether I smoke pot. None of that matters from the greater scheme of things because it's a different paradigm. And yes, you can say, okay, sugar is unhealthy or this is healthy. But that's, again, that's a different paradigm. But I love that question. Paul has a question. We can squeeze this in. Something that comes up for me, I guess, when I'm at these meetings, and it's a sort of an expression which I don't...
Relate to or something like that. Yeah. So, So, look. But I say I have no sense of me. I can't find.I don't believe the worst one. I believe it's, but these are all intellectual thoughts about it because I really, really can't see a me there. Okay. But, you know, when I drive down the road, I think, oh, I shouldn't have done that. Is that, is that? Is that me being inconsistent? I don't think so. So that's one thing, that's one thing that we live in an environment where the whole culture, everything, this, this, unbelievable place I find myself in called this planet, this life. This is the environment it creates.
It talks about me and it's only people who do, only human beings who do this. Animals don't, plants don't, cats don't, right? So that's the first one. The first one is that even though there is no real sense to me, in a sense that I will take onthat pain. I don't see it as my pain. It's not mine. It's there, but it's not mine. There's no me. There's no identity here. There is just this. Yeah. Okay. So that's the first one. The second one is that um You know, we have a, we have, let's call it concept. It's not really a concept, but we have a sort of an understanding, if you like, about the way things are.
Okay. I will say I don't understand any of this. It's all a total mystery to me. And that's really the truth of the matter is that I can refer to the story that started off when I was born.