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I'm curious. And we do.Yes, I'm not, am I? Okay, so, Tony will be with us in a second. Are we good? Can I say our names? Ella? Ella? Richard. Richard. Richard. Anthony. Ben. Sim. Yeah, okay. We'll go. We'll go. There we go. Give us a mic.Hi David, so we have someone with us on Zoom and we're good to go. Tony has seen the introduction many times, but what we usually do on the beginning is invite if anyone would like to share non-duality introduction with us, if anyone feel that it might be benefiting for everyone and yourself. If not, maybe. Not this morning, it's right now.
Yeah, okay. Okay, so it is someone on Amazon. So at least if something comes up, you know, just interrupt me, take it any direction. Because the truth of non-duality is very, very simple and very basic. It is just bringing the attention, the recognition back to that fact, mysterious and beautiful fact, radiant fact of our own existence. Which to the mind, if you look with that computing narrative capacity, seems like nothing, is taken for granted, is invisible, can't be objectified. The awareness of existence, the presence, is not a thing that can be grasped by the mind. So in our regular everyday thinking, it is completely ignored, completely overlooked.And it doesn't get any credit for the fact that without that, without...
Awareness of existence without the fact of being alive, of being conscious, nothing is. If you are not conscious, nothing is. There is no seeing, no hearing, no thinking, no dramas, nothing. So that radiant, luminous awareness of being, of existence, that present moment of aliveness, is really primary, is first, is above all else, and is the only thing that is real and it matters. Because it's always here, it's experiential. No one can deny it, no one can argue with it. Even if you want to deny your own existence, you're obviously here to deny it. So being here, being present, being alive, being aware, of being present that is not the same awareness that is aware of objects like it is the objectification that computing awareness you know like bob used to uh suggest people to look around the room quickly without labeling anything And you realize that without even labeling, or he would ask you later on, okay, how many things you've seen?
You may name.the windows, the carpet, or other people, whatever. But you've seen so much more than that. You've seen everything. And if I ask you, but didn't you see the source of light? Oh, yes. Didn't you see the light? Yeah. There wasn't a hole or a gap or vacuum in there. No, the whole vision was furnished with everything. And yet mind didn't grasp and didn't label on it. So there is a knowing prior to naming and labeling. And the knowing that is, that knowing of existence can't be labeled or grasped or objectified as, it can't, the mind is using a language which is symbols. So you can't really put any boundaries around it.
So what the mind does, it says, okay, the sense of existence is mine. This is my presence. I am the real sort of entity here, and the presence belongs to me, and the body belongs to me. This is my body. This is my thinking. This is my existence, my consciousness. But when we look inside and see if there is anybody there who actually possess it, if there is any owner of the body or any owner of the consciousness, what are we going to find? Just more concepts, just more thoughts. The I and what is the I? We can look how that I even came online.Oops, sorry.
I'm just going to... I'm a heavy believer. But I'm not doing it. Good on you. So you can see the little baby is born, and it doesn't have any concept of being an eye, possessing a body, or possessing a mind. And it is perfectly fine breathing, crying to get attention, getting food and being cute and all that makes it that whole mechanism, that whole life driven machine survive perfectly well and thrive and then grow and then upload more programs. First, the little baby is uploading the understanding, distinguishing voices. It can distinguish the mother's voice from whatever the father's or pet or something, or noises. There are noises that are scary.
Then later on, as this camera slowly go online, it gets... Facial recognition program and it starts recognizing faces then it starts learning emotions it starts learning that this grimace is different than hard than this one so it it gets programmed it gets conditioned to later on when there is enough of the language enough of the wordsit actually connects the dot and says, this is I. That little girl or little boy is who I am. I am this body with this mind. And from then on, the sense of separation comes upon it. And now, yes? The terrible two is no to everything. Yeah. And then it only gets worse because the older it gets, the more separate, the more sensitive it gets.
And then that little child, when it becomes teenager and the puberty kicks in and everything is about belonging, feeding in, pleasing, getting attention, getting recognition, getting approval. And that little body machine driven by life with sense of imagined entity of the I responsible for my life. Now I'm going to get it wrong. I'm going to waste my potential. I'm going to choose the wrong school. What a terror. Everyone was a teenager once. You might remember the rebelliousness of a teenager, the terror of getting it wrong. Or the righteousness if i know something the thought arise in my head that thought is correct that's the truth i'll fight for it i'll die for it that lack of insight the intuition still there but the deeper insight into the working of that whole brilliant constructIt's not there yet.
It just doesn't live long enough to have enough data to process it. So this idea of separation comes upon fairly early and from that it starts medicating for it. It starts a little child, the terrible two that I said the boundaries and then it wants more. Of the things to add to itself or ideas if you look at the fives or six years old my mommy is prettier than yours and my daddy is stronger than yours all building that sense of identity on the base that i'm separate i'm vulnerable i'm fragile i need to convince everyone around me that i'm bigger than i am or maybe i'm more fragile than they will look after me there are different strategies there's several strategies which this this body mind machine develops just like every other animal in nature.
Has the strategies to make It's just animal in nature come. He wants to develop. Come on. So that's what the nature does. It protects this instrument. It makes it love to be. So it protects it from any sense of danger and any sense of luck. So in the animal world, this is very simple. It means living in the present moment, fending for themselves in the now.not brooding over the past traumas, not imagining a dreadful future. So there is no psychological suffering in the life of an animal. It is always here now, it is always engaged with what is happening. But we humans have advantage and disadvantage of having that brilliant narrative mechanism, that processor, which can conceive of time.
And apparently there is early development of a child, maps exactly when that imagination kicks in. And when the mother disappears from the room and her face and her voice disappears, it doesn't mean that she vanished. It means that she exists in some other space that I can assume that exists. Cat does not have that capacity according to neuroscience. So capacity to imagine, that's what the thinking is. Capacity to imagine even when we use the language we use the word apple and there is no apple in the room but we all know what we're talking about the symbolic language the imagination the faculty of imagination that faculty of imagination which is a brilliant capacity which no other animals apparently have as far as we know now created that magnificent creation, the whole civilization, the art,All of it is due to that brilliant processing capacity.
And still, it backfires because the backbone of that processing capacity is imagining that there is an entity inside called I or me. And that entity inside, since childhood, is too small, too weak, too fragile, too vulnerable, not good enough. The same capacity. Now, with that sense of separation and sense of vulnerability comes psychological suffering. Because another part of the processor, if I'm convinced that I'm not good enough and I'm small and fragile and separate, That's what I'm going to see around. That is going to be what I'm going to experience. The confirmation bias. I will see what I believe to be true and I'll experience it as if it was true.
Just like little child believing in a Santa and experiencing as if it was the reality. So the whole humanity is hypnotized, enchanted into believing that there inside sits an agency, a tiny little creature called I or me. And that tiny little creature is responsible for running my life. And if it gets it wrong, oh my gosh, the concept.the guilt, the shame, the pain, the remorse, all of it. And if it gets it right, or the self-esteem issue, if I'm not good enough, oh my God, how am I going to make myself better? Maybe I should lie to others. Or how can I make myself better?
Maybe I should learn things or get money or name or fame or anything, add to myself to feel a little bit less insecure and a little bit less unworthy. And I'm chasing my tail and going around with that perceived sense of luck. And that hurts too. The sense of inadequacy, the sense of never being enough, that hurts. But what if you take a look and see if that alleged me who is running the show and who can get things right or get things wrong can't be foundUsually people come to those type of meetings, satsangs, whatever they call it, to add to themselves or find the great enlightenment, to become more happy and fulfilled, or to let go of the ego or let go of the obstacles or let go of the me.
What if there is nothing that needs to be done, nothing that needs to be let go of? What if you look and you find nothing and shit?That's the beauty of that direct or immediate recognition. It is immediate. In the moment, when you see that there is no one, there is no one there that does the seeing, there is no one looking, just focus behind your eyes and see if there is anybody there. In the head, there is no head really. You have to imagine the shape of a head to even conceive of someone sitting inside the skull and looking. See how much of the mental processing and imagination is involved to even do that mental exercise.
But really just intuiting, is there anyone doing it, doing seeing? Like, is there anyone doing the heartbeat?That's pretty obvious. Is there anyone doing the hearing? How would you do that? How would you even do it? Oh, well, I can focus my attention on those sounds. I can focus my attention on the sounds outside. But really, on the sound of a cat tracking the carpet or whatever. But the illusion of being in control of the attention can be very easily dispelled also. Just like I can't focus on beating my heart faster, I can't focus on the traffic outside unless the thought comes up and tell me to focus there.
Or unless the sound is so persistent that it calls for the attention. I can't choose where the attention is going outside of all the triggers that will pull that attention that are out of my hands. I can't control my next thought. No one can know what you're going to be thinking in five minutes or in one minute. Because it depends on the rest of the universe. There may be an explosion and how would you know it? Oh shit, attention goes straight there. You don't know where the attention is going to go. Sometimes your attention may be naturally attracted inwardly because there will be a reflection of light or a nice sound.And sometimes that attention might be inspired outwardly.
You put the podcast and someone brings a thought that catches, grasps attention. You can see how that attention is completely in one, completely inseparable from the environment. The seeing, the hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, any way the attention is channeled is completely dependent on the rest of the world. Where is there a space for me to direct it or to control it or... Where is there even a space for the me to exist in that, in that spontaneous dance of movement of attention, of the hearing registering the sounds, of the seeing registering forms, of the heartbeat, of the digestion, just a spontaneous dance? And where is their separation if the imagination is just switched off for a minute or pushed aside for a moment?
If I don't imagine the shape of this body and the boundary of this body, what can I even say about that consciousness or that presence without putting any boundaries or any limitations on it? Is even the story of me valid unless I bring it up as you?imagination and I can't bring anything up because there's no one there but it can come up through inspiration someone asked me my age the answer will happen and there is no one there asking and there is no one answering is again a spontaneous dance like there is no little cut inside this cut in the middle of the room that is deciding where is he going to look.
It's just oneness of environment, the one life, one essence acting as absolutely everything, acting as Kat, acting as the triggers that the Kat has. And if Kat had the narrative, that would be the same one life acting as the narration, as a commentary of what's going on. And recognizing that there is no one inside that needs to be let go of, or no one inside that needs to get the message or put it to the back pocket and have it, and now I have it, I'm enlightened. Realizing that this, this, mysterious dance of movement interconnected arising interdependently nothing can actually exist without the consciousness in which it arises if the body was dead the dream would not be projected would not be experienced So the consciousness in one flux withwhatever arises and that which arises in one flux with everything else in it where is the separation if for a moment you pause the thinking where is the separation between me and the cart and the consciousness and the sounds And of course, one could say, yes, but you can't function like this.
But you never function. Is the life functioning? There is no need to control the natural spontaneous function of life. I don't know what I'm going to say in a minute. I had no idea what I'm going to say like minutes ago. It's just the basic predicament of expressing that is to just see what comes up. Just sit in that silence, that source of all knowing and just see how it works. Comes up and everyone can do it right now without the thought without the imagination you know that you are there's no doubt about it there's no question about itcan't deny it what else do you know with the same certainty as that knowing of existence is prior to any other knowledge is prior to knowledge of your age or your gender or anything else that not only changes the year changes apparently every year but the gender changes anything changes any role any mask one moment oh yeah i'm walking to the kitchen so i'm the body next moment oh i'm angry with my mother so next moment i'm the emotional self and yet next moment i'm a mother or wife or whatever it is Those roles, those spontaneous...spontaneous acts of expression of that life through whatever the environment calls for is none of my business i am the registering capacity the cognizing emptiness the pure presence experiencing what arises If the role of an angry bitch arises and this one is yelling and screaming and punching, wow.
If the role of a happy get lucky arises and is just chirping around, wow. If the role of whatever else is arising through this channel in which that life is experiencing and expressing itself, it is registered and it is registered in that basic knowing that doesn't need to make sense of anything doesn't need to label anything or understand anything it doesn't need to have anything or lose anything or let go of anything it just isAnd it is right here, right now. It is underneath all the stories of identities, of dramas, of what is happening in life. That here, that presence here, that nowness prior to thought, Bob would ask questions almost on every meeting.
To just ponder, pause the thought and see what is wrong with right now, if I don't think about it.And you see in that moment that there is existence. Everything is just as it ever was, only the problems are not. Because all the problems come from is thinking. No thinking, no problem. So where is the unworthiness? Where is the sense of low self-esteem? Where is the sense of, where is the need to compare or to grasp or to accumulate and add to myself, protect myself? Where is the need to convince anyone of anything?They may still show up as an old conditioned patterns, but they're completely impersonal.
They're not mine, they're none of my business. I'm the space, the emptiness in which whatever arises is registered without label, without judgment. It's just whatever arises. This knowing, this being prior to thinking. is that which they call reality that which never changes whenever you look is always here always the same it doesn't have you're not being more or less you may have more or less energy or vibrancy or vitality but the being is prior to any sensations what would call it pre-sense prior to senses it's not that oh my being is warm today or my being is a little cold or my being no there's no such thing as my being it's just It can't even be told that it is a thing.
It isn't even a thing. It can't be conceptualized or grasped by the mind because it isn't a thing. But you can't deny the fact that there is an existence and within that existence, that whole arising, there is an existence. The arising is changing. The content is changing. Bob would liken it to the seeing. Like you wake up in the morning and seeing is there, it's available, it's already there. The content of seeing is different. What arises in that capacity of seeing is the bedroom, is the ceiling, is the window, whatever. Then as you go to the kitchen, there is another arising. The field of seeing is the same.
The capacity.It hasn't changed. The eyes may get weaker over the years and may need glasses or anything, but the capacity for seeing and for whatever arises and whatever the instrument, you can put the binoculars or you can put the microscope, the capacity for seeing does not share any qualities. It just is. The content is changing. Even the object may be modified, the subject, the objects, but the capacity is the same. Same with the existence, pure existence. The dream is arising. Right now is this. This dream arising. It's night, there might have been something else, there might be some flying or some other experiences arising. But the being, the presence of consciousness is the same.
Here in that daydream because there is the more of the processor apparently the more of projector is on so there is also past arising there is a memory of the age of this body and the name of this body and the nationalities and all that In the dream at night, that usually isn't as easily accessible. You may not remember, oh, how did I get there? You may not even need to ask that question because even that inquisitive capacity is off. But the presence, the fact of existence, is the same because it doesn't haveIt can't be different if it doesn't have qualities. So the existence of the cat can't be different for existence of this because it has no qualities.
If the cat has, if his existence was brighter or warmer or colder, yes, we could compare them. But it is prior to any sensory descriptions and it doesn't have any boundaries. In this, in this fact of existence, You just are. Who you are, what you are, that's the arising content. That's not it. So if you believe, I love when Bob would actually say the worst thing than that, but it was a really good illustration. He says, We put all those masks of identity on us and we believe that we are that mask. And he would say the worst of it is, after all, I'm only human.
He would say, after all, I'm only human.And yeah, I could think of the worst mask than just being a human. But this one is, again, the closest one that people usually identify with. And if that one is undermined... Then you can't be a bad human, you can't be a psychopath human, you can't be any human whatsoever if you look without the thought, if you even are human, if you can even say that. You cannot deny that you are. But to even take up an identity as human, you need the thought you weren't born with that identity. As a two-year-old, you didn't even know that you were later on to construct the costume of identity called human.
Without that thought, you just are. And this is the freedom where you just are. And within that isness that is boundaryless, limitless, timeless, spaceless, bodiless, mindless, this incredible, colorful, ever-changing dream is arising moment to moment, always new.And this body is also arising in it, it's not excluded either. But there isn't any imagined, hallucinated owner in it that is separated from the world. Separation is not necessary. It is the property of what is a default mode network, the part of the biocomputer which actually creates that illusion of self existing through time. This is the same me in a primary school. This is the same me on my wedding day.
This is the same me. That is a story that only exists in conceptualization in the language. It does not exist in experience. It does not exist for the cat. So even though it is a useful story and it is a beautiful story and you can enjoy it with the greatest of pleasure, realizing that you are not bound by it, it is not the ultimate truth. It's just part of the arising. It's just the element of the arising. And then you can see that everyone coming with 100 stories every moment and appreciate all of them from the point of freedom. Appreciate how this incredibly creative they somesometimes call it God, the creator, the creative intelligence of life, shows up as every single story, every single identity.
It's a profound beauty to it. But if there is an identity associated, then the boundary is created, then the separation is experienced, and then the belief that I am this story, I am not too tall or too fat or too slim or too weak or too poor or whatever, that's the truth. Shoot me now. It's horrible. Most of all, it's not necessary. Come here, please. I think that's enough for the introduction. Yeah. You know what? Leave the door open because it's in shots.So I think that's enough for the introduction and we have some comments online saying, Gioti says, joined here from Zoom, sorry for leaving suddenly.
Oh, so you can come back. And Gilbert says, Bob, and there's a quote, you will never work it in the mind. Words do not reveal anything. Words weave web of misunderstanding. Bob, what you seek, you already are. And James says, I don't mind. You don't matter.Someone's playing music. Yeah, thank you. Yes, Bob had brilliant one-liners. Oh, my gosh. Thank you, Gilbert. It's like they're all killers. And yet, format of his meetings was introductions sometimes. For an hour he would speak yes yes yes yes yeah yeah yeah yeah he did show up lately on zoom with us so if you want to join us on zoom he he said he may show up again and he had a birthday yesterday yeah you can wish him happy birthday let's seeYeah.
Oh, yeah. Gilbert Richard, I knew you way back when. I don't know how far back it is. But anyway, happy birthday, mate. So, yeah, very good. Yeah, thank you. Anyone would like to actually contribute, say something? Um, Yeah, I've heard this, but I just felt it in that. It's like it's terrible news for the ego. It's really devastating. Because he's been just running right and now he's sort of, he's been exposed. And he can't believe it because he was in such, he just, yeah, he was in such control and probably figured it was going to go on for forever. And now all of a sudden there's a few gaps in the whole thing.
But I sort of find that my thoughts have less, well, there's nothing behind them anymore. And I'm seeing that more regularly. Wow. So, and I'm getting lost in them constantly, but then I'm just dropping them because... There's nothing, they don't have any truth or any validity and they're very conditioned, like they're just repetitive.You know, if I think of like a family member, there's just a bunch of thoughts that come with that good, bad and indifferent thoughts. And they've been there. They come up and it's like, how did I not see this prior? They're not original thoughts and I'm not creating these thoughts. They're just... They come.
Yeah, and it's just they don't, yeah, they don't hold any truth. So I wonder why I didn't see that earlier. But just off that, this is something I've wanted to ask, like all the stuff I've loved, you know, like the movies I've loved or the art that I love or the books that I love have all come through the pain of the writer or the artist or whoever it may be. So if everyone was to come from a place of non-duality, what sort of art would we have? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like who would have made... Pulp fiction without pain and suffering you know what i mean like yeah do you have is there an answer to that or no i love the i love the human capacity to imagine what if you know what would it be if there was no weapons what would it be if everybody just loved each other oh what it would be see how You are just selling unborn Buddha mind for a thought, for the imagination.
Just notice it because that's a beautiful thought.It's a beautiful thought. Appreciate the loving behind it. But this is what is not happening. This is what is not happening. And there is the idea that if everyone worship Jesus, it's the same. It's the same what is not happening, feeding the story of some imaginary world. The pain is part of life. The pain is unavoidable. The suffering is optional. And as of now, life, the intelligence of life, and you will read it in that book because every chapter you have the trinity of voices. The second voice is the voice of life. One voice is telling the story of Bob.
Another voice is saying, I live. Have absolutely no agenda in everyone to be the same. I have absolutely no agenda. I'm not that boring to experience myself. Like everyone is just going to be a magpie and it's just going to be identical. No, the beauty of that creative force called life is that every little pattern, every snowflake is going to be uniquely different. So poets and artists and ordeals and the deep humiliations which breed wonderful poetry and all that.Life in its incredible creativity, why would it deprive itself from that? Don't you need to be separate to, sorry, don't you need the separation to create the art in the first place?
No. Well, I sort of get a, like a sort of fascination and kind of like, wow, that's there at all the things that are heavier than I am, or heavier than the experience here. And I don't understand, like I watch these K-dramas and go, why would somebody do that? Because maybe my grandparents did, but when I grew up, I didn't know about that stuff, that kind of shame or that kind of whatever. And then after about a few more hundred hours of watching the K-dramas, the character says why they did that. And it's like, wow, oh my God, that's this cool thing that exists in the world.
And then the stuff that I don't get yet that I'm sort of stuck in or are still heavy, It's the mystery of like, oh, what's it like for those people who get that stuff already? You know, they're over that hump. They're not drowning in that thing anymore. And I kind of prefer the wow and the rush of the stuff that don't bog me down. More than the stuff that does, you know, the pain and the suffering side of it. And I think a lot of times people will fight for the pain and suffering that they feel just to be validated in some way and not have to like step out and sit at that coalface.of the uncomfortableness of letting that go and moving on to a lighter place.
So, yeah, it's just this, and it's just a progression through, you know, there's just a lightening of, a lightening and a seeing of what isn't really necessary if you can get through it, you know, if it's not there anymore. That's just a progression and then being in the moment is actually nothing arising about anything at all. So, you know, kind of everyone on the planet has some patterns, nearly everyone has some patterns that are still showing up and being heavy that you know you're in, whether you see there's such a thing as a person or not. Yeah and it's just this thing that's there and then being stepped right out of it is another thing.
Where there's just nothing shows up at all except here like an image of you know the room or whatever yeahthere's an enjoyment that arises or a feeling. I think that would exist rather independent of how your relationship to it. So, yes, if a feeling is what creates art, that doesn't mean that you don't experience or it's not experienced, rather. It's just there's no identity with it. You can still transmute it or, you know, enjoy a feeling good, positive, whatever label you want to put to it. It still exists. And what happens with that feeling internally or externally is still happening regardless. I think if I felt a joy or there was a joy that was experienced, and it would bring further joy or another pleasurable experience to do something with it that you could call art, I think that could be fun.
That could be an enjoyable experience. So I think that would still, art would still exist.And to find the one who suffers. Find the one who suffers for that art. If the separation was ever real. Maybe a better question is why the question? What's the not? What are you worried about? Yeah, I realise I've sort of hated myself into a corner here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. It is. It's challenging my thinking. Who hates themselves? No, I just, I still can't. I just sense that art, the best art comes from the suffering.So the suffering, isn't the suffering the separation? But see how this is a belief.
And judgment also, what's best, what's not best. This is a concept. Yeah. And all that can occur and does occur without any chooser, without anyone choosing. It's amazing. It's incredible, really. Don't you think, isn't it odd that in all the billions of so-called people on the planet, And all the seeming days you've lived, you've never been able to construct a thought.Nobody ever has been able to say how they did it. Wow. Because there's nobody. So just I'm going to be crucified for that. But if you haven't seen, it's pretty magnificent art that AI is creating right now without much of a suffering prompt. Don't, you don't have to, but it is just to challenge the idea that you really have to suffer to come up with anything of value.
That's just not true. Love brings so much more art of value than pity and shame, which is also love, ultimately. Pity and shame is also love. I may be majorizing. I'm sorry. Yeah? Yeah. Are we not all there? There you go. Maybe this is your particular preference. Yeah, you resonate with all that pain. Yeah. And you don't want it to go. No. Ah, I love it. I love for it. I love it. I've got compassion for it. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's all of that.And rest assured, nobody's going to take it away from you. Even appreciated, even without believing that there is a separate self inside.
In absolute freedom, appreciation for beauty, if anything, it gets greater. Yeah. So there's no need for separation. No need for separation from anything. Separation is illusion. But I don't get a choice when I hold on to it. Sorry. No, no, no. Go back. Yeah, I don't get to choose. I've lost the thread now, but... You don't get to choose what you hold on to. Yeah. It is just what arises. Yeah. So that's just another example of that. Yes. And even... Things are going to go. Yeah. Even to say, I hold on to things. Really what's happening, there's no I holding on to anything. It's just a charged idea that attracts attention.
And it's sustained by attention.Scary stuff. I love it. It's a pattern of energy. There's a humour that I kind of find fun at the moment in the sense that any thought I'm expressing is a narrator, that like the awareness that you were talking before doesn't have thoughts. And the process, at least the meme finding out this, quite surprisingly, was definitely a narration process. It was like an internal thought about thought and the infinite recursiveness that that eventually causes before the system self-destructs in a rather bold fashion. But even now we're discussing. So there's a narration.having an ego death or a fight against it that you mentioned before.
And yet it's its own tool and its own dismantling. Like that's humorous. There is a humor there. And even the humor that I'm finding is a narration. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Singing each other a rhyme. No, that's it.I don't know if other thoughts are rising. That's the insight. Hi. Yeah, like the whole dismantling and the whole ego and it was creating a force. And what a great story. And when did it happen? There's only this. So when did it happen? To whom did it happen for? There's only this again. So the seeing, the time, appearance of time, the appearance of the creation of an ego, the dismantling of an ego, it's all the same.
It's all appearing. Who's it appearing for? Who's seeing it? Who's the seer of it all? It's just seen. And who's the doer of it all? It's just seen. And so what is it made of? It's like empty. It's actually really empty. There's no real substance to it. It's just an appearance, appearing to create time, continuity, depth, dimensionality, all these kind of things. Space, improvements, highs, lows, goods, bads, ups, downs, everything is created in this space.And in that is beauty and tragedy and suffering and every emotion, every gamut of possible experience. And, you know, like I think, well, just that's, It's absolute immediacy. It's like now.
It's just now and where that whole explosion of everything that just described appears. So there's nothing you can actually say. about it, there's nothing you can know about it, and yet the knowing is what illuminates the whole show, because you know that you are, you know that something is appearing, but you can't really describe or explain it, or you can try, you can describe it forever, but even the energy to do that and the next thought and the next description is appearing again. Wow, it's like one essence describing, explaining, hallucinating, dismantling, fixing, improving, all within itself, as itself. So it's like one big show and one big party.
And that's the non-separation. That's the immediacy of it, an explosion of this now. Where everything appears and everything's resolved and everything's fucked at the same time like because because everything every every aspect of it is undisplayed and there's no resolution there's no ah Now I can rest in this beautiful place. Who is the eye that could rest? Because there's no resting place. There is no central point. There is no particular position behind the eyes or the back of the head or somewhere here. There is no spot. There's no reference point. And so, yeah, it's just.Well, you know, these are just these words. I mean, these words aren't there to convince anyone of anything.
Like, they're just words. This is just what's being... Blurted out here at this moment and, you know, look at it and see and experience and express whatever the hell you like. There's a frustration, I find.Sometimes there's been an experience where things that might have caused hurt or frustration or stress, the thought arises and there's like a humor and you must, it's let go. But then another thought arises of, is this bypass? Is this... An attempt to not feel it. Is this not an alignment? How would I know what an alignment is? And then that thought as well, recognize what it is, is another costume, it's a narration.
And then that becomes again, the infinite recursive loop. And again, a frustration starts to arise, which feels funny because that itself is recognized as an attempt to try and fight the realization and it's it's an interesting experience i mean i accidentally stumbled upon this i had three weeks ago and it's been a really interesting Again, humorous experience just watching the machinery work. And machinery is the closest word, I think, or symbol you could use to describe it. Only that it's running like clockwork and it happens regardless. It is humorous. It does silly things. Machinery is a really great explanation of it. Yeah. And it really depicts it really well because it's mechanical.It's not personal.
It's just happening and it runs and it may seem to run in absolute chaos or it may seem to run as like pristine, everything in absolute perfection and perfect synchronicity and harmony. And both of the appearances is of describing the machinery, the machinery is actually creating what appears and how it appears and how it's like showing up. And there's no one doing it. Or the whole universe is doing it. The whole of creation is actually doing the machinery as well. And everything's connected in that sense that from, you know, your parents, what they ate for dinner the moment you were conceived, or something that happened on another side of the world or on a different planet and energies.
It's unfathomable what would be influencing the machinery as such. So who is, who is, what this machinery is incredible because it's, wow. So all we can do is really watch it and see how it's sort of functioning. Yeah, and certain patterns may illuminate themselves and become more evident than others and tendencies and habits and all these different things. And I guess the biggest tendency, habit and addiction is me, myself and I. Really, I'mI mean, it is. This is how I see things. This is who I am. This is the world. This is who I am. That's the biggest addiction, the biggest pattern that comes under sort of investigation and collapses in itself as well.
Like that is an equal hallucination to unicorns. You know, they're both as valid as each other and both have the same amount of validity in that sense. This machinery. This isn't well oiled here. It was brilliant. I love the unicorn of me, myself and I. And we have Gilbert says here. Oh, we have a couple of people. Sorry guys, sorry guys on Zoom that...Yeah, you cut the weight a little bit. So Gilbert says here, he's quoting Nisargadatta, you think they are your thoughts? No, thoughts appear upon consciousness. Calling them my thoughts indicates misunderstanding. Yeah, that's beautiful. Quote yeah and another from nisargadatta there is only life no one lives alive that's also a nice good one to ponder upon just life experiencing and expressing as everything And Gilbert also says, believe in me is a festering wound.
Wow, that's a nice image. It needs to be lanced and allow all the pus to be cleared away. The absolute confidence in one who knows can assist so long as the resistance is put aside. Hmm. Yeah, that's that's nice. One who knows is the no ink. It's not the one is just a no ink. Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a pretty, pretty memorable mental image. Thank you, Gilbert. And Bob would say what Dean was just saying, you know, like delight.in watching the mind and seeing how the machine functions because it's the free entertainment forever for no one but it is it's just like you were expressing ella you can see the humor of it you can see that everything that shows up it comes with narratives straight away you don't even do it it just shows up narration shows up the stories they show up and now if you can just be who you are the space like awareness allowing unconditionally space doesn't object to anything that shows up like sky doesn't object to the clouds It allows them unconditionally to just be.
Space would say, hmm, that's none of my business. I can just have the feast, love it all, just not be bothered with the narrative, even if the narrative is abusive, the narrative is judgmental. So who cares? And if there is no element of referencing it to me, it is not personal, and I'm not feeling now guilty for having those judgments, How long are they going to last? Everything needs the fuel of attention. Every fire needs fuel. Without attention, nothing exists. So even those overlay of those so-called character defects showing up, they're not going to stay.much longer if they are not personal they're not important they're not attended to they just dissipate back into the space and what's much much more attractive then is just that simple pleasures of the presence awareness right now Suddenly, and again, Bob would say that we habitually put 90% of our attention in thoughts and narrative to the exclusion of all the other senses.
And now you can actually enjoy the background sounds. You can enjoy the feelings in your bones. You can enjoy the subtle pleasure of breathing. You can enjoy whatever is appearing in the peripheries of the vision. Suddenly the five senses open up and the life is more vivid. The seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, all that is happening presently is much more vivid. There is much more. Subtle joy just like the way you know you don't see at least i haven't seen depressed cats they always happy to be they just lying they're happy to be yes of course they may be distressed if you step on their tail or if they're hungry don't try it stop it What's more important, the cat.doesn't hold an older belief about poor depressed me.
Yeah. So the cat may exhibit a behaviour which is interpreted by someone with a concept about depression, what it looks like. Cat is just there. Cat is not believing a thought that comes up and says, oh, woe is me. There was an interesting study done recently that through this I recall just talking about cats. And they were studying dogs who had been taught basic language through the use of buttons. Yeah, I heard that. Fascinating. Depress. Yes, absolutely. The use of self-referential language caused signs of clinical depression in dogs. Again, that... That shows, that reveals. The curiosity that arose from that was the use of, again, self-referential language, English being subject-object based.
And how much of the way that we frame understanding through language is actually what causes it. You know, the idea of an I being inherent to English, then causing that is how we conceive and perceive things as a result. Amazing. I have antidepressants for dogs now, so that's good.You mean cuddles? That comes back to the thing. Sorry. Maybe to give dogs something. I've got something very wise to say. Yeah. It comes, thank you. It comes back to that thing of in the beginning was the word. Yes. That's what fucked us over. Just as well, because if not for that, there is no awakening, no self-realization.
There is no freedom. We're living in the moment, aren't we? We are living in the moment. Okay, forward, sprung out. I'm good out, yes.Yeah, it was a good comment. Yeah, and I was going to ask if anyone, we have a few people there online with us on Zoom. Would any of you guys like to unmute and contribute, say something, ask something, type something or... Just be with us more actively? Just an offer. There is no expectation. Just an invitation.All good. Okay. All good. That's good. Thank you, Jane. I think Ben's comment was good. Yeah. Say it out loud. It's really... Well, everything just returns to its original source, I guess.
So it's just a, yeah, it's a dance. Yeah. But it's like going back to the art thing, not in a different way. So that's, yeah, so the voice or the nothingness is speaking through the form, so to speak. So that's why... The things that come out of people is much greater than the person itself or the idea of the ego of the person. So that, yeah, everything that has formed has come from the source itself, not from the person's brilliant idea. Yeah. Yes, because I've heard of like in books, like someone wrote, said the book was channeled. And when they really speak to you, you think, yeah, that's come from, I don't know where that's come from, but that's, yeah, maybe everything, everything's channeled.
Is that fair to say or I suppose it is? Yeah.Yeah, if everything is channeled, then nothing is channeled because everything is the same. Yeah, so the differentiation in the language that, oh, yeah, this comes from the Holy Spirit or this comes from Pleiadians or, you know, it's just another story on top of the fact that this is one essence expressing as everything, as the song of a magpie, as the growling of the reptile and as the song or a story of a person. Whether the story says oh i am the son of god or i am the poor miserable little drunkard is still the same or they told me or or my mother told me or cassiopeians told me it's just the same sort of a story that the one essence appearing as everything Channeling Cosmopie's song.
So even that sense of a person is still the same, it's the same essence appearing as an idea of a person, totally mythological, you know, totally non-existent in that sense, but it's still the same. How can anything come, can anything not come from the same? So there's no like, what do you call it? Well, look at it yourself. Like, is there?is an authentic self and a non-authentic self. This is a common discussion, you know, like now I'm really going to speak from my true authentic self. I mean, seriously. So that implies, you know, obviously it implies what it implies. Humour. Yeah, humour, pretty much. So bypass, spiritual bypass.
Yeah, all of that. It's laughable. You have a magnet in your heart. You don't get to the parts. You just get to your magnets. That's it. There are no parts. Yeah. Do you need, sorry. Things are coming up do you need humans does god need humans to know that he or it exists but before humans was then there was nothing yeah and there's still nothing this is still yeah before before humans there was nothing How about your last night's dream? Did it exist or did it not? Or does it exist now or does it not? See, it is always the mind trying to solidify things and define things.
God needs me. Wow, a lovely story. And yet, you know, you could say, oh, but there is a validity. God is blind. It needs the eyes. So it dreams itself a body. So it can see.At night, it dreams itself a night body that can fly, so it can fly. One practice is that. What is it? I'm asking what purpose did that story serve for us? No purpose at all. Except the lovely good entertainment. Yeah. It's good entertainment. Yes, it is a spontaneous expression with no purpose whatsoever. The glorious meaninglessness of it all. The meaning is only assigned as another story. Inherently nothing has the do you want to sayThe simple thing regarding the God thing is the fact that we are part of it.
And there. So there's no, you know, like God and us, basically. There's just God. Okay. And we're just imaginations outside of it. So, yeah, that's a simple thing.been a trainee for a long time i i don't have the eloquence to be able to explain things like you guys kept this is this is phenomenal thank you no that was beautiful that was beautiful yes it's it's only only one one essence or one source and imagination that you are outside of it and you can ask the question what What causes this thing to beat? Yeah. There's no motors or batteries or, you know, all that sort of stuff.
So this energy or, you know, like whatever is, that's just, that's the part of it. And that's the crux of it. The rest of it is nothing. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But, you know, like. I haven't got to the point of bloody recognising it, so that's that. That's a fair idea, by the way. Yeah, it can't be clearer. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God pretty much gets that you have a pretty good idea of what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. The experience thereof. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we're just sleeping babes in his castle. So, basically. This thought, this problem, what is God, what is not God? So, humorously return back to the same thing as like, what is wrong with right now if you don't think about it?Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, thank you, guys. That's fantastic. Yeah, that's enlightenment right there, that moment. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. And see that the talking about God, not God, the explanations of concepts, how is there knowing that this is occurring? There is just a knowing. There's a knowing that this is going on.Yeah. Yeah. Where there is no reference point. Yes. That is the truth. Yes. When there is the investigation. Can't find. The entity, the thing, the individual, the whatever, the mastermind, the central controller, that is an illusion that that exists. Yep. It's a hallucination. You really look. Wow. And just what's happening. It's been really good having you.
Thank you. I'll see you next week. Awesome. Thank you.Then comes the but. Then comes the but. And the knowing of the but. There's knowing of the but. But, but, but. I don't know. Just comes the but. It's human. Show us your but. A but comes. But we say there's no one running this machine. Who's beating the heart? Who's breathing? Who's thinking? Who's butting? Who's butting? Yeah. But there's a but comes up. It's the thought. Yeah. It's the word. And then I question. And who's questioning where did the why come from? Yeah. Why? Why are we even questioning? Why are we even doing this? What is his purpose?
Yeah. Who needs to know? Somebody. Show me that somebody.Right here. Yeah. See, it is just a desire. All there is is a desire, same desire as when the body is hungry and it's the urge to eat. Same when the body feels lonely is the urge to connect. The same urge to know is that... Same natural urge but then the mind owns it and makes a story if i know i will be more powerful i will be wiser i will be safer i will have control over other people or myself all that story but the innocent urge to know if you see it's the same way as the innocent urge to put something warm when you're cold That's not completely impersonal and leave it as it is.
And it will just dissipate. Or maybe they will be acted upon and some information will be added. But it is us light and us unimportant and us unrelatable. And there is no necessity to relate it to me. This is I. I want to know if I know that my life will be better. I'll be safer. I'll be wiser. I'll be enlightened. No need for that story. So it's the human condition to ask why. It's the human condition to desire. Because it's not a capital desire. A capital desire.Yes. Comfort. Yes. We all desire that. And what's wrong with that? Yeah. Yeah. So not the narrative on it.
Yeah. It's when the narrative comes. It's not even the narrative is the problem yet. The belief, the belief that when the narrative comes and tells me that this is
me this is important for me this is significant because this i depend on it so even when the urge or desire the why question comes but it is just an innocent appearance like a bird flying on the sky But I don't take it on board. Oh, this is about me. This is important. I need to find the answer. If that belief and that relationship relating to the imagined self doesn't follow, that why will just dissipate. So it's remaining curious.
Yeah, yeah. See, you may ask a question, why, whatever, why is that particular bacteria breeding in that particular temperature? Not much interest, is it? Not much relatable, not important for myself. So that question dies without even needing to get much of attention. But when the things are related to I, but this is important, this is about me. Now, suddenly it gets charged. And that emotional charge comes from that unquestioned belief that there is someone inside. Well, I had an interesting experience this morning. I went to get a coffee. I went through McDonald's, ordered the coffee, got to the station where you pay for it, and they weren't there.
Yeah, beautiful. I'm cool with that. I keep drawing.I get to the next station, no one's there. Oh, this is cool. I get to the station where you pick up the coffee and they gave me the coffee. And my mouth, I didn't do it, but my mouth goes, where shall I pay? And they're like, I don't know what happened. Then my mouth goes, they didn't pay, they're not paying. And I'm sitting there going, why am I even having this conversation? Why aren't I just driving off? And then I'm going, why am I even having these thoughts? And then I'm like, I'm acting like a child. They didn't pay.
They didn't pay. Why am I paying? Wow. It's just this whole party. I had this whole party going on in the head. Amazing. But I was able to watch it. Yes. And not react. I laughed at it. I laughed at what was going on, what my thoughts were going, what my reactions were. It was fascinating. Beautiful. It was fascinating. You will. I can tell. I can feel it in my bones. No, I don't have anything. It's just the fact that a lot of things have become very, very... Understandable, I suppose, just in this meeting. It's been fantastic.It needs digesting as well. I'm going to read here as a comment from Ram.
He says, entertainment for who? Purpose for who? All thoughts is untaught, Sailor Bob. Yeah, exactly. You don't believe that entertainment is for someone, Ram? That's the point. There is no who. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, yeah. So there is nothing for anyone in it, and yet it stands right in front of the eyes. And if there is natural appreciation arising, it's also for no one. And you should know that, Ram. I think you do. And there is a comment here that says, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? This is from David. Could this be seen as running away from or not dealing with whatever is faced in that moment or that time?
For example, ignoring the issues faced or problems encountered. And Jane has another comment underneath.Can you slide it down? Yes. It is echoing at the moment. Oh, sorry. Two mics too close. Okay. Yes. So did you want to answer that? What's wrong with that? I didn't actually hear one of them, but it may have been along the lines. Yes, sort of a bit of a theme here of like either you sort of enjoy the painful art or whatever the... Because there is a pattern that is hanging on to some kind of validation of that agony, that low level, denser, more dense sort of energy that's going on.
So there's a dense energy and then there's an attachment to that, which is another energy. It's just all energy. Kind of in a little dense world. And that's sort of one enjoyment of certain, you know, art or certain writings and things that happen and just, you know, hang ups in the system. And then there's the lighter kind of Like, oh, that's that. Oh, that's happening. Wow, that is this. God goodness me. Gosh, those people are fucked. I'm glad I'm not like that anymore. You know, not needing the eye to actually really mean eye in this case. But, yeah, and who's to say that that also doesn't have its own pattern of still some kind of slightly dense energy in there?
Is it completely free? Is it just the– is it– Is it total?in the moment when it's, oh, wow, gosh, that exists. It's clearly much lighter and more enjoyable, but, you know, it might also have a little bit of a slight density going on. There might still be some kind of patterning there rather than just a complete peaceful, you know, not much at all. Maybe what Bob calls light satisfaction, maybe not even. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely. Cold, it still feels cold, you know, and hunger still feels hunger. It's not like, you know, cold is very ecstatic or hunger is enjoyable. No. It is when you're like, it's kind of enjoyable when you do, oh, so what's that cold?
And then you sort of dive in, oh, and it's like not cold and that I don't like it anymore. It's kind of like. And lead it's a bit like lead and that's about as far as i got when i did that deep dive but it became like again a joyful noticing yeah rather than oh god i don't like this cult so yeah everything can sort of be lightened right up when it's that when you dive it when there's a diving into it And then, you know, pure peace, you know, it doesn't even have that. And what gets framed as enlightenment, you know, could be pure peace.
It could have a little bit of the joy arising. And then I think it's just a stretching of a term really in definition, you know, and then it starts to bring things like knowing and consciousness and, you know, keeps on.getting more and more, you know, where it's gone, conceptualized, I guess, you know, concepts creep in. And none of it, it doesn't matter. It's just the sliding scale or whatever. Yeah, and it is the same, you know, beautiful expression of that one essence, bringing up every little detail of that expression. Yeah, Ram says there is no one who watches thoughts. There is no one to be entertained.
Thoughts appear in the seeing. Can seeing, the seeing is no thing. Can something come from nothing? That last sentence was a quote from Sailor Bob. Yeah, beautiful. Exactly. That's, yeah. No one. And yet, it's... It's still a name. Absolutely. Yeah, it is. But then there's not the one. Thanks. Thank you. Oh, thank you. So there's no why, but then there's a judgment. You know, if we can move the why, now comes in judgment. Judgment of the thought or the action. You don't even have to remove the why. Why is just another thought arising. Judgments, another thought arising. They're just arising thoughts.Like the weather is arising.
We're very critical on judgment as humans. Yeah, so there is, yeah, like Tony was saying, a layer, you know, judgment is being judged. There is a layer of thought around the thought. It's just thought chasing thought. Like a cat or a dog chasing its tail. You are just quoting from Bob's book. 20 years old. Yeah. Yeah. And we're, you know, like 20 years of like finding no answer in the mind. Just no answer. There is no answer. Come here for 1600 years and not find an answer. There is no answer. Yeah. Why do you keep looking there? You're right. You're not the doer. Yes, seeing that whatever arises is none of your doing.
It's just whatever arises. That's innocent. Yeah. And it is the cognizing emptiness or the seeing, like Ram was saying, that it is arising in. And there is no person that is, you know, cognizing. There's no me cognizing what's arising. It's just pure cognizing, pure knowing, pure being.And the conceptualization of someone who it is related to, it breeds the separation. Because now this is here and this is not me. And now there is a split. In separation. Yes. Separations are poor, you can see. Yeah. Down boy, down boy. There's one minute left, maybe just address that last question. Ah, yeah, there's another question. No, no, it's the same one, but address it.
Ah, the echoing? No, no, no, before that. All right, so that was what's wrong with right now, if you don't think about it. Could this be seen as running away or not dealing with whatever is faced in the moment or at the moment, ignoring the issues faced, problems encountered? Can you see how subtly? There is a doer sneaking into that picture now. Am I doing it wrong? Am I bypassing? Am I now trying to get away from the issues? Am I trying to run away from the problem? Am I trying not to see how much I... Seep into that pure basic inspired moment of respite from the eye when you ask what's wrong right now if i don't think about it there is quietness there's no eye and there's no problem And then how long can you stay in that?
The problems, the ideas.will come back rushing because that's its nature. But then you can recognize that a moment ago there was no I, there was no problem. And there was still existence there. So now I am that existence. Arise or dealing with the problems. The fact is very simple. Whether you heard the quote of Bob, what's wrong right now if I don't think about it, or you didn't hear the quote from Bob.Attending to whatever arises is the very nature of that inseparable instrument, one with totality. Whether you have that thought or you don't have that thought, the breathing is happening, the heartbeat is happening. When it's cold, looking for warmth is happening.
When it's hunger, looking for food is happening with or without that thought. The idea that the thought can suddenly cause bypassing or not attending whatever arises is a beautiful story, but test it. Just see if the situation arises and you pause the thought for a moment just to have a respite from the mind and perhaps fresh view.if whatever needs attending is going to reappear or not. And what happens if it does? Attending happens or not? Or what happens if it doesn't? Attending happens or it doesn't? It is again, because there is no doer, you have no choice to think that thought. If that thought arises out of nowhere, it is part of the arising.If it doesn't arise, it isn't a part of the arising.
It can't be anything good or bad or right or wrong about whatever arises. Only the thinking comes and makes it right or helpful or unhelpful. But thank you for the question because it's a really, really good question to look at. And then it's fundamentally all concepts. Yes. About right or wrong, good or bad, are empty. And we'll never find satisfaction there. But keep asking the good conversation starters and good deep sort of dive investigation into the... When in doubt, keep saying that there is no one who sees. Can you not be? Try it. Yeah.