This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Now we don't have to worry about this one and this one. We are with you guys. There you go. That's yours. No, leave it to a speaker's view. You're speaking. Yeah, it will show us. Trust me. Just check on Facebook and you will see what's viewed. See? It will show us. Yes. Yes.Okay, so. Welcome everyone. We are about to start and we're going to ask you to say your names to the people who are with us. Charlie. Charlie. B. B. Anthony. Anthony. Charlie. Marco. Marco. Ben. This is Black and Festo. Dean. Bob and Tanya. And Miranda. Oh, and Jane. And we have Jane and Chris with us on Zoom.
If anyone else join us, we will be very happy. If not, happy Easter for those who actually celebrate or obey Easter. There are different... Obey, I don't know. Observe. Observe, yes, perhaps a better word. And anyone would like to give us a start? Tanya, would you? No. No. Okay, so just for you guys, how about you, sir? No, no, no, no, no, no. Just for the people in the room, I had a comment on YouTube, a request that At some point, it would be really nice if someone steps up and give us a break. That was a very, very sweet and kind comment because it happens very often on Zoom meetings.
And I posted a couple of Zoom meetings with different speakers. Absolutely brilliant. One was Jenny on Tuesday and then was Cornelia.It is particularly helpful to see how easy and natural it is for anyone, for everyone to embrace the message, to just rest in that certainty of existence and see what comes up and describe the natural state. Just describe it. And because it's Easter, perhaps the vocabulary for today may be Christ consciousness? Because it isn't necessarily a Christian concept. It isn't especially, it isn't understood by non-Christian circles as a Christian concept. It doesn't have anything to do, allegedly, with a historical or non-historical figure, which is nowhere to be found right now other than an imagination of Jesus, which, of course, Bob really loved.
All the metaphors related to that character. And it is to be honored just like a character of Buddha, character of even any character, any mental representation, pointer behind a Shiva or Maya or anything. But the Christ consciousness has a little bit of a different flavor to it. It isn't supposed to be a consciousness belonging to Jesus. Christ consciousness is a transcendence. Is the consciousness that is already present and itdoesn't even need to awaken because it isn't asleep it's just veiled by the overlay of the narrative and i haven't verified it but i'm pretty sure that you know like i remember from from other um things that i was investigating from the books that bob was reading and from um schools of philosophy various different concepts relating to the christ consciousness as as nothing religious as something more universal it's just another label the same label as as you could say universal consciousness or awareness instead of consciousness or space like or sky like awareness or consciousness So when they are talking about the celebration, the moment of celebrating of resurrection or rising of that consciousness, of course, in the mythology, it means that Jesus was killed and then he was risen.
Bob had a beautiful little pointer showing up. Jesus's great powers of bringing Lazarus out of from the dead and healing the sick and those are all beautiful very very appealing sales pitch for enlightenment you know if you get enlightenedYou'll have powers. You will bring dead. Because Jesus says greater miracles you will all do than I. Yeah, wonderful. Okay, okay. I sign up. I want to have superpowers. I want to be bigger than everyone. I want to be better than every one of you. I want to be able to do things that you can't. Well, isn't that the best perfect distillation of a teaching of separation?
Obviously. So the metaphor which is sold for the masses, that he was superior and separate and he could do things that you can't, is not the aspect of Easter and the aspect of celebration of Christ consciousness that we want to explore. The Christ consciousness, which is the universal consciousness, which is already present in everyone, and it doesn't have any superpowers. Its power is to just be, just is-ness, omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. And how the celebration of that consciousness rising or the resurrection of the body, you know, this is where, again, the religion divorce spirituality. Because when Bob was pointing out Jesus'superpower of bringing Lazarus from the grave, He would on the same breath ask the question, where is he now?
Where is Lazarus now? What was the point? Or the blind.guy that was given the sight back can he see right now long since dead so what's the point what's the point of having desires for being superior to everyone else to be separated and better to be like jesus and heal the and heal and bring the death or to be nailed to the cross and wake up three days later. What's the point? Instead, the whole idea of the rising of the universal consciousness or rather unveiling of the universal consciousness that is already here, is already present. Is basically investigating what stands in the way and what obscures it.
So when Jesus was saying that, you know, I and the Father are one, and God is your Father too, so how are you different being the God's child or the God's extension or the God's embodiment? How are you different for being the same? You know like the same not the same the costume is unique but being sort of the extension of being sort of a vehicle for that father for that omnipresence omnipotence omniscience to experience and express itself as the Jesus,the son of the father, the father, the sky, and the body, the earth, the mother earth, the expression, expression of the potentiality being the human body with the human capacity to create an experience and express human drama and the human capacity to see and recognize particular pattern.
To recognize faces everywhere, looking at the trees, faces, what is it? Is the human capacity to process the information in the human way. So that's how God experiences and expresses itself as the pattern, shape and form. That's why we're here, to explore that capacity, that Christ consciousness, and see what veils it. And welcome, someone else enter the room. Peter. Yeah. Hi, Peter. Welcome.If you would like to, if any one of you guys who are on Zoom with us would like to unmute and say something, say hi or raise the hand or have a say, you must welcome anytime. I'm actually happy to be interrupted at any point.
And that's the information for you too. If something comes up. Because you know. Yes, and anyone. Just, you know, we could all just have that spiel unfolding in the direction that we are interested in it to unfold. Because I have no idea what's the next thought going to be. I have no idea what I'm going to say in two minutes. So the field is open for that idea to be inspired from any other input that comes up. So just as you were describing Jesus, I mean, everything that you said applies to every past guru, every past teacher, every past master. It applies to the Buddha.
It's a stripping back of the teachings that the word is not the thing, like the teaching, yeah, like the whole Christ consciousness is a word too. And you could say that all there is is consciousness and the lens in which it's viewed or spoken about or discussed or... Debated or taught or all the transcripts, all the teachings, they're all like expressions of pointers or whatever.Of that which is. Like they're not separate or above or below. They're really just bringing us back to the immediacy. So the whole Christ consciousness is not what it was or what it could be or what it should be. It's this.
It's very immediate. It's now. And, yeah, no, I just thought what you said was good and just elaborating when it's applicable universally. It doesn't, it not only covers Christianity and Jesus and the teachings, but it actually, it can cover everything. That's all. Now. Yeah, it is. Yeah, that's a really important highlight. It is now. Because there are only two states, and it's not even two. They're all happening now. They are one. But it's either the immediacy or it's the overlay of imagination. The past is imagination. It's still in the immediacy. So there's no separation. It's all now. Even the past is now. Imagination is now.
But yeah, that's where it resides. That's where all the religions and all the past gurus and all the reverence that we may have to some supreme beings, like a lot of those gurus are considered superior, Nisargadatta or Ramana Maharshi, saints, sages and seers and all those, you know, high guys. I remember when Julia came once and she said she had a long...list of recommendations of people who are enlightened and Bob was the only one alongside who wasn't dead and he says yeah it's easy to to trust all the dead ones they can't have a hip hiccups they can't do anything wrong we can glorify them and we can put them on a pedestal and have the imagination feeling the gap how different and how much better they are then this expression of the I am this one right now But Bob wasn't.
So Julia installed herself here, brought him a big batch of chocolate eggs, just like the ones that we have for sharing there, and he scoffed them all. And she says, wow, now that's the end of you being enlightened masters. You must be my friend. Otherwise, I can't possibly learn from you. If we are not equal, then I will never believe that what you are, I am, that we are a reflection of each other. And that was the secret of Bob's incredible capacity to shift that perception in people. His incredible success rate, uncomparable to a lot of those great gurus who just need to be worshipped and their lotus feet have to be touched and their bank accounts have to be filled up.
So the I am, which Jesus was speaking,is the same I am that you are experiencing right now. The I that takes credit for being separate entity is happening in the imagination, also right now in this moment. But the direct experience pushing aside that imaginary overlay of narrative, the eminence, the isness, the existence, Nobody is dead right now. Everyone is existing, is conscious, is aware. And that what is referred to as Christ consciousness. That is the pure, pure existence. That is what in Christianity is called omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. And you can see how the presence doesn't even require the idea of my presence, your presence or omnipresence.
It is presence. It is experienced as this presence right now. Even the label presence is already too much. But at the same time. Without the label you can't deny that yeah yeah i'm conscious i'm not dead yep i can't even say i but yep there is an existence so when they put the omnipresence on it as the aspect of godliness now i am my presence and god is the omnipresence but eve god is an omnipresence that i amI can't be excluded. I am part of that omnipresence. I am part of that godliness. Otherwise, he wouldn't be omnipresent, or he or she or whatever it is.
So if it is a really, and that's the pointer, omnipresence, then this is it. This presence is it. And omniscience, omnipotence, this is it. The power which heart uses to beat and the lungs use to expand and contract are the omnipotence. Because if they were excluded from the omnipotence, then God wouldn't be omnipotence. It is the God beating the heart. It is the consciousness or the Christ consciousness or the universal awareness expressing us, every power ever used, as every existence, every form of existence. And it is present. It is happening right now. It is immediate. And again, now, what obscures it?Is there anything that could possibly obscure it?
Can imagination actually obscure it? Because I can now subscribe to the dream that yes, but, and after the but comes, I am still a person, I'm still miserable, I'm still separate, I'm still not it, I don't quite get it, I don't understand it, I am not it. Maybe in the future maybe tomorrow maybe when I get what I want money or looks or wisdom or whatever maybe then I will be the way Jesus was or the way Bob was. There have to be some conditions that I have to fulfill. There have to be a path and I have to progress from one place to another.
All that story, where is it? What is it? What is this story? Can you grasp it? Does it have any essence? Does it have any substance? Is it anything more or less than just the smoke and mirrors, just a nonsense story? Without that story, what is wrong with right now? What do I have to become? What's wrong with me? Is there anyone there that has to progress into something and achieve some imaginary state in which there is just pleasure and nothing else?Is that even possible? If you look at the, we have the little master here sitting on the chair in the natural state right here, not screaming in the ecstasy, not blissing out, and yet being perfectly, perfectly content.
If she was to speak Nisargadatta language, she would say, there is nothing wrong. And of course, there are moments when things are wrong. There are moments when there is pain in the body. There's a moment when there is a distress. But if there is no thought arguing with the reality, those moments when something is wrong call for the natural response. If there is something wrong and this one is hungry, it will start meowing. If there is something wrong and its bladder is full, it will just walk and relieve itself. There is nothing wrong unless the story comes, veils the... The beautiful unique radiant awareness of this alive moment this unique alive moment right now and even when it does even if the presence present experience is just a veil of a story But there is enough of free attention to actually realize it's just a story.
What's wrong with that?What's wrong with a good movie? What's wrong with a good entertainment? A good story? Oh, poor me. Wow, that's funny. Oh, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not wise enough. Woo, bring it on. Isn't it funny? Well, it is funny right now. It wasn't that funny 15, 20 years ago when it was believed. Because when it was believed, it appeared as the actuality. It seemed as if that was the truth. But what's the definition of the truth?That which changes fleets the thought that comes and goes. How could that be the truth? A little bit of a self-reflection.
And you know that even that existential angst is not a steady, unwavering, unchanging reality. You get up in the morning and it's a nice sunny day and you get a cold shower and someone tells you a compliment and that sense of unworthiness is like, oh no, it's actually quite nice. Yeah, I actually have a lot to appreciate in life. Yeah, it's okay. And then the light changes or you get a slight headache or someone criticizes you. Shit, you know, I don't want to be here. This is horrible. So how is that true? If it's dependent on 10,000 things, how could you possibly trust the story arising and falling?
Why are they even taken so seriously? And this is where it comes handy to watch the mind. Get to be curious to actually see how the magic trick is done. See how this little fleeting veil of a story suck up the attention, is believed into reality. Is believed to the point in which it isn't even questioned.And then it appears real, it feels real, it's experienced as real, and it hurts. And again, the brilliance of that whole magic show is the more it hurts, the more it prompts you to look behind the veil. There's no better motivation than suffering. You can't stand it anymore. That's when you say, okay, wait a minute.
They say there is a way out from psychological suffering. Where is it? How is it? And you pause. And you rest in that what's wrong with right now. And you just breathe out.and see what is it without the story. And the veil thins or lifts, even if just for a moment. And it's a respite. And it's always here, always available, no matter how thick the story, no matter how believable, how much habitual attention goes and fuels it, that energy of belief.It may be as thick as when you were six-year-old waiting for Santa. Santa was real. How real? Oh my God. What is it now? Every thought, every story is just the same.
Whether it is flat earth, whether it is I'm not good enough, just the same. When it is believed, it appears real. And when it is believed, when the habitual attention goes and feeds it, And that's the life essence. The attention is the intelligence energy. Or Bob used to call it energy of belief, which is good enough metaphor. Because it's one energy. It's not like, oh, there is energy of belief and there is energy of attention, there is electricity. No. On the bottom of things, there is just the Shiva Shakti, the static aspect of stillness and the vibration movement. Movement is the energy. That's already the energy.
It can move us attention. And you can see how without attention, nothing is. Nothing. Try to... As much as you can, believe that you are not good enough and not give it any attention on it. Where is it? It doesn't exist. If you don't give attention to the moon, is there a moon in your experience? It's not.Nothing can exist. In fact, there is no two, not two. The moon and attention are not two things. Remove the moon and then there is no attending to it because there's nothing to attend to. Remove the attending and of course there is no, again, it's like the seeing. And the seen and the seer.
They can't be separated. The separation between the attending and the object that is attended to is purely conceptual. You can't attend to something that is not there. Attending is already containing the object of attending. So that's the energy of belief. can't experience your belief if the energy of belief is not there. So this really just how the whole world of smoke and mirrors gets constructed, how the whole world of separation gets constructed. It only exists in that sphere of belief. I am separate because I believe so. I am a person, I'm a woman, I'm this, I'm that because I believe so. Have I ever looked?
Have I ever really questioned it? Is it just a story or is it the direct experience? Can I experience myself as a human? No, this is not human. It's a concept. It's a label. I can believe it. I can imagine it because I was already conditioned to believe it and imagine it. But to experience it, no.What is the experience? What is the direct experience? If there is no overlay of imagination. And of course, imagination is experienced directly also. But the imagination is somehow overlay. I mean, there is a direct experience seeing the being, the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Absolutely, it's completely, fully possible and complete in itself without the imagination.
And then imagination is somewhat added. In Buddhism, they are talking about six senses instead of five. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is five senses. Imagination or thinking is the sixth one. But the existing is absolute and complete with just five senses. And again, you can look at that little master here. Master Pesto, no thinking. And existence is fully contented with itself. So the thinking is a wonderful capacity that this particular human pattern has. And it is an addition, addition to that pure experiencing, which is complete and full without it. So from that completeness and fullness of thedirect experience of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, the imaginational thinking can be appreciated from the point of freedom.
I'm grounded and relaxed completely in the reality of just being, just being and processing sensory information. From the body, the sounds, the sights, the taste, the smells, all of it, that ocean of sensory experiencing. And then mental images as well. But if I am here, the mental images occupy only a fraction of attention. I'm grounded in right here, right now. Mental images, imagination is a fraction. It's an entertainment. It's to be appreciated. It's to be utilized. Creative thinking. Wow. Amazing. Communication. Joint projects. Inter-subjective reality of sharing love and compassion and joy. With other seeming expressions, other presences in that field of omnipresence. Wow, wow, full appreciation for that capacity.
But from the groundedness of this unique, vibrant present moment right now. Rather than...Did anyone want to say something? I see someone's on mute. Jane, would you like to ask something? No, I'm running out of charge. Oh, all right. Okay. Okay. You can mute yourself and plug your phone or whatever you want. And then we can see the difference, what happens when that attention or that energy of belief fully fuels the entertainment system and completely withdraw itself from the groundedness of the five senses. Like now, I'm not even conscious of the background noises. I'm not even conscious of the smell of the air. All of those things are blocked out because I'm fully immersed in the thought.
My sister is turning 50 today. Oh, my God. Wow. And now she is running in my head and she is whatever the content of the imagination is. And it seems so real. And there is a beauty and pleasure in how real it appears from the groundedness of. Appreciating the miracle of that creation. Wow, she's really turning 50. My God, there is past. It is real.But it is known in this groundedness that, wow, I love that. I love how convincing the dream is, how convincing the existence of the past and the future is. That makes it so godly like like wow call it god now though again bob didn't like the word god and uh maybe that's not the best thing to say on the on the on the christian uh holiday but i know quite a few people who were victims of Christianity.
I was one of them. I wasn't baptized and I was prosecuted by priests, but not as bad as a friend of mine that I was on the phone a couple of days ago who was sexually abused. And there is not a few, it's quite a lot of people having that darkness in the seeming past, in the conditioning. Of course existing only when they think about it but the whole machinery gets you know the the survival strategies of the machinery including the computing the need for survival that was installed in the seeming past So the trauma responses, the behaviors that were programmed in this way, well,That's how it looks like in the dream of being vehicles.
Just like the largely abused example that I bring on with any other traumatized animal, a cat or dog or any other animal. If there is a persistent need to protect themselves, it becomes habituated. And that relaxed natural state become a state of hypervigilance and alertness. And it takes a while, even if there is a full realization that there is no danger. It takes a while for that behavior to ease off. I had a traumatized cat. It took three years for that cat to settle. Other cats may take three months. It depends on the depth of the trauma, on the 10,000 things, on the resilience of the nervous system and all of that.
But we side tracking. I think it's a time for the conversation, for the contributions. Yes, Bob was not one for encouraging or directly worshipping the messenger. Maybe this isn't the right day to be.talking about that or maybe it is but What you're looking for is not outside somewhere in the story to be found. Whatever Kat was describing, you know, how one moment there can be this emotion present and another emotion five seconds later, another emotion. See how these emotions and feelings come and go. But the sense of being, we don't have a word for it that adequately describes it, sense of being, the awareness, the knowing, the discovering is always the same.
That is, no matter what comes and goes, it's untouched. Just just got comes and go things just come and go come and go changing all the time even when there's physical pain in the body there's awareness of it and thatjust is always so, always so. Rest in that and Kat was talking about you know attention attention so sometimes it's as if the attention is like a lighthouse focused intensely on something And it's like conditional. It's a magnifying glass, but it's exclusive in doing that. And the attention is so directed on one thing, everything else is excluded. There's no sort of equanimity. In what's going on it's a like a lighthouse focus versus you know and it's a love for that attention is like a love for a focusing of a love for that where the attention is going versus the moon which kind of loves, shines its light on everything equally, loving everything equally without excluding anything, without being conditional.And it's always there.
Whether you believe you're the lighthouse and not the moon or not, it doesn't matter. You're always there casting your light. The belief that I was not focusing then. He said, where are you now? Where are you right now? It's a belief. Okay, so this thought comes up and your attention is going on belief in that thought. But you're aware of it and you're reporting it to everybody here in the group that you failed to attend to the everythingness of everything. It makes you laugh because how do you know? How do you know? How do you know? Because always and ever is that light of the moon casting its light on everything.you know, lighthouse versus moon, all of that is just, you know, what, analogy, you know, it's just not to be taken too far.
But it is kind of like when you're being that focused attending lighthouse light attention, that is a love for. That which your attention is focused on to the exclusion of everything else. That separateness. So in doing that, you cut everything. Everything else seems to be. Not loved with the same, you know, seems to be absence of equanimity. But it's a beautiful way of confusing the hell out of, you know, omnipresence, omnipotence. Wow. And it's imagined.Anyway, that came up as you were speaking, this image of, you know, stormy seas at night and lighthouse attention versus the moon, which casts its light equally. We actually have a couple of cards on that image.
Do you want to add something? One of the metaphors Bob used to use was the magnifying glass and like the sun's rays and the sun warming. But under the magnifying glass, those rays are condensed and will burn. But when you're magnifying, which is attention focused as an example. Yeah. But when the magnifying glass is removed and that lens of attention, which is really a metaphor for the attention of watching the narrative mind, of believing the narrative mind, believing the thoughts of me, mine and thou, and the focus that that is real, that that is who I am and that is what's... It's me and the world.
And, yeah, when that focus is not there or the magnifying glass on that attention is removed, then what is it? Like the sun's rays radiate evenly and warmly on everything. The other part of what you were describing earlier was like the story. You're talking about the story in different ways and that they can veil us. And it's quite fascinating because...How can a story can't do anything at all? So if it's seen as a story, like this is one big dream of fairy tales. And everyone's story and every story that you could ever imagine, every conceivable or perceivable story is a fairy tale existing in this, in the omnipotence, omnipotence, omnipotence, yeah.
So everything is appearing, including the fairy tale, which is a fairy tale. But none of it's actually real or true. It's a story. It's a fairy tale. And actually the story has become fantastic. It's another creative expression of the one essence, really, when they're not believed to be true. They're just, oh, look at this story. I'm a good, and like, what's the biggest story of all? Me. You know, it's the story of me. It's the absolute, the ultimate story is my story. I was born and I'm going to die and I'm a good guy and a bad guy and the wrong and right and clever and getting it and not getting it and moving towards something or falling away from something or getting closer to being some sort of illuminant, you know, radiant sort of enlightened being or failing dismally and miserably.
And, you know, all of that, you can just go on. You can go on forever and ever and ever.All the stories are sort of magnificent because how could any one of them actually define anything or anyone? They're all beautiful fairy tales, yet they can't be definitive in any way because it's that same essence. What's producing it? Where is it appearing? To whom is it appearing for? It's just appearing and it's not appearing to anyone. You can't find, oh, it's a little cog in the sort of right hemisphere of my brain. No, you can't tell where it is appearing. It's just appearing. And so to whom is it appearing to?
Well, I don't know because I have to use more story to describe the story. So how can a story describe a story? When the story is not real, can the story that describes the story be more real than, you know, we're all, this is, you can see, like, we can't get anywhere. As that person with free will and choice trying to solve this and get this and transcend this can't get anywhere at all because all there is is this in the infinite expressions of it including stories fairy tales and all of it and yet none of it because none of it is is You can't grasp it.
There's nothing tangible in it all. They're just appearances. And what screen are they appearing on? They just appear. You can't. You can't.You can't deny that there's an appearance, but you can't pinpoint anything about where or how or why or anything. It's just, and when does the appearance happen? Bang. Always the same place, which we could say now or say immediately or use these words, but it is always, it's the same now, same immediacy. Same presence that you always had. Like it hasn't changed and it's not different to you or to here or there. It's the same presence. It's that one presence. And I think this whole one duality is all about just remembering that which you can't forget.
Because you can't forget it because it's not rememberable or forgettable because it's that presence which forgetting and remembering appear as appearances, as fairy tales. That's my little bit for now. Thank you. Well, ask Kat, not me. All of you. So basically everything is a story and everything is a thought. Like everything, like we're talking about five senses, six senses. We're talking about the body, the me, the attention, the everything. So everything is purely a thought. It's just a... Mirage, yes? Like everything, the body, everything, like whatever story we think of, the thoughts.that we are thinking, the thinking behind the thinking about ourselves. Like I'm thinking that I'm aware it's a story as well.
And then the more you dig is another story and it's another story. Everything is a story. Even what you see right now, even what you see, even what you hear, even what you dream right now, you may be dreaming this room and then you may be dreaming what happened yesterday. And then you may remember dreaming from last night. All of it. And it makes no sense from individual perspective. It's totally discombobulating, confusing. What the heck? But if you actually drop that sense of separation and you just stay in absolute awe, like, wow. This is arising. Shit, it could have been nothing. And guess what? This pair of eyes, this, this, all of those are eyes for that Christ consciousness.
God is suddenly seeing through every pair of eyes, even the closed eyes of that little cat. So now that incredibly complex display of that fractal, wherever you put attention, there is more to see, there is more to discover, there's more to experience. The dreaming machine from so many different perspectives, you know, like you have God has thousand cameras and all those thousand cameras have thousand different dreams. Like, wow, shit, what a display.Now you don't even need any sense for it. You don't even, it doesn't even need to make any sense. So who's that what's thinking, wow, what is there? It's another thought. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely. Yes. You pose the question, so what's your experience rather than anybody telling you what your experience is? What do you mean? I've got a lot of experiences.Yeah, so... What I'm asking you to do is, what is your experience? Tell us and we'll discuss it. The experience, oh yeah, so basically, like we all say, I'm not good enough. I don't get it. This is the experience like now, yes. Okay. And on the other hand, there's like, yeah, okay, there is something there that I like. Yeah, everything is a thought, but it's like the belief in something that it sounds like me, it's there as well.
Right, that's what I was after. Yes. Good on you. Mm-hmm. God bless you. God bless you for being you.That's the key thought, isn't it? That's me, myself and I. It seems to be like at the centre of all the... But it's not actually true. If you have a look, you'll see... We start from point A. Yes. And then we'll go to point B. That's why I asked. Yes. That's brilliant. What sort of showed up here was just, you know, what's there when you're not thinking about it? Yeah, so I just like took those little moments and just thought, okay, that's probably enlightenment, that'll do. And so then just went with, you know, more of those, or for longer.
And like sometimes when, you know, here it's just a visual snapshot, that's it, just a snapshot of an image. Shows up and that's it nothing else happens with that you know no thoughts about it yes okay blanking out because that was just the snapshot was just showing and nothing else um so i've forgotten where i was goingSee if it pops up again. So, sorry, what were you talking about? So I'm like, so everything is the thought, but it's still the belief in me is there. Yeah, so basically here I just sort of went with those more and more of those where the belief isn't, I don't really have the beliefs, but I still get like, thoughts coming up about, oh, this is uncomfortable, blah, a lot of discomfort thoughts and a package of discomfort reactions and the system does all this discomfort stuff, you know.
So if I just go with enlightenment is when nothing else comes up, you're just the what's there when you're not thinking about it. And as here, like it's more like as processes take place to release patterns and hangups and triggers and all that stuff, there's more of those moments or they just arrive much more easily. Like there's a post-it here saying, you know, what's, you know, go to that space. It's immediate. Now after a few years of hanging out these sorts of places and also with quite a lot of the release process taking place, but it's just always just taking place or not. And there's just more and more of that, more and more of nothing.
But maybe not other people just get an image, maybe other people get an audio. I don't know what other people get. But here, Yeah, quite apart from the fact there's no belief here about there being me.other stuff that's showing up aside from nothing, no thing. But it dissipates as things get released and triggers and the whole package frees up. The energy gets not from, Bob had a phrase, condensed energy. I don't know if he got it from somewhere or showed up where he was, but... As that releases, it's more of the what's there when you're not thinking about it. And so, yeah, sort of there are ways of releases and the moments of letting go that get noticed or not noticed or like, oh, that's gone or, you know, disappearances from one end, like he was saying.
But here it just always comes back to one day there'll be less, there'll be more of the no thing showing up. So, yeah. If I can ask you just one more question. So on the basis of your experience, what is it? Do you feel it's an experience or belief, what you just described before? More of a belief because for example um okay yeah belief okay and it's and it's like for example like there is a things like that you are suffering with and there's a good things happening and stuff and then why your attention needs to go like to the bad things to the to the to the good things and stuff why for example so what is this omnipresence like it can't choose it's just spontaneous nothing really happens for a reason then because there's no kind of like decision maker there no one is like behind oh i'm gonna make you now um a cry or something yes there's nothing like this yes those are just another another stories stories on top of the stories you knowNow, the meaning making, I often like to challenge people when they say, oh, you know, this happened.
This was synchronicity. This means something. It means this and that and the other. I say, how about you bring three other options of what it means? You will not only witness the incredible creativity of that meaning making machine. But you will also get the distance to your attachment to the potential meaning. And it is a freedom ultimately from all need for all meanings. Because again, from the individual perspective, you have that what Dean was saying about the magnifying light and Tanya was saying about the lighthouse, you know, focusing like a torch, focusing on something. You have the laser focus attention, which give more life to a particular expression of the omnipresence of the Christ consciousness particular form.
So you may actually appreciate your particular cut and not every cut in the world. Or the love it all or none of it, nisargadatta, sort of like a sunlight or moonlight spreading evenly, there is no appreciation then. Because there is nothing in particular standing out or you can say there is the subtle contentment which is appreciation of all of it unified so there is nothing really stands out but either way whichever the attention whether the attention is focused or whether the attention is like a peripheral vision you know like laser sharp or peripheralis still spontaneous. And both of those modes of operation and everything in between are still spontaneous.
This is still that omnipresence experiencing itself through the pattern. When there is a necessity for that wide sort of open field of vision, That is what is going to be experienced when there is a necessity for laser focused contemplation of a tiny little thing. That is what is going to happen. And now the more of the attention is relaxed to witness which mode is operating. Is it a survival mode running for my life? Or is it a complaining mind, yapping, ah, this is not the bad weather, I'm not good enough, whatever. Whichever the mode of functioning is going on, if there is enough free attention to be that presence, be that space, be that witnessing, the more seeming choice of not following the conditioning appears because now for complete mechanicalness of action you need absolute darkness complete darkness like you don't know how your stomach works It works in absolute darkness, no light there, it's completely mechanical, it knows which hormones or which juices to secrete when, it doesn't need conscious attention.
But that witnessing presence, when youyou let's say you have all different modalities of therapy of interrupting the pattern if you have OCD or any other patterns and and then there is enough free attention relaxed to notice the pattern the noticing isn't interrupting it yet but in a way it already disrupts certain mechanicalness because suddenly the light comes in and there is no darkness required for completely mechanical actions to go on so the more relaxed attention the more of that reflective presence groundedness the witnessing presence or cognizing emptiness the more freedom from that you know like neural pathways that are almost like a highways the compulsions the more freedom from those compulsions, the more, well, the freedom is, there's only one type of freedom that we are talking about.
This is the freedom from the mind. Yeah, and then if you, to sort of lose the whole like, oh, it's intentional free will and all that BS, because that's not the experience here, but if you just turn it on its head and say, well, maybe the, you know, Oh, God, I just forgot what you were saying.the pattern kind of released and then a notion came up about that pattern afterwards just after so um i'm not exactly clear what we just disappeared out of there what we're talking about but um just hard to describe right now because it's gone um but Yeah, all the details are gone, sorry.
Yeah, yeah, so instead of always assuming that a thought came up and then it happened, you know, a thought to shed light on something and then the light got shed, you know, perhaps the light got shed, you know, there was just a movement and a release that took place and then the notion of it. Came in and then maybe the sentence that went with the notion because I'd notice them we know another emotion first and then in a sentence may or may not pop up after sometimes you know occasionally but I've noticed that happen one in the other yeah so this package all the stuff about something people just there's an assumption also pops up thatthe noticing of the content of what took place comes first and then it takes place.
If you just reverse it every time the art took place and then it popped up, and we have some experiment where that actually showed up that way, where thoughts showed up after the action in an experiment. Yeah, then you sort of start to lose that whole, oh, it's, you know, done and someone did it and you know it could it's just unfolding universe just doesn't unfold it that's it there's no viewing from acting from you know it's just if you lose those those assumptions don't show up anymore you can just see that you don't know stuff just happens happens happens happens happens including the thoughts about it and the intention.
So then if you see everything like as a thought, that means that all the judgment, all the lack of self-confidence, all of those kind of desires and everything, you perceive as a thought only. So it doesn't have any charge into it. Even if it does, you just see it as charged thoughts. Yeah, like, you know, I can tell you how Bob, how charged thoughts Bob would get on the side of apple crumble with peppermint ice cream. Yeah. Yeah.Sure? Sure? Yeah. But still, there was no Bob in there. That was just a thought arising and the charge was with it. And you can see how every thought arise already pre-charged.
Some thoughts have very little charge. For example, the thought of, I don't know, eating a grass. No charge, no desire, nothing. And again, the freedom is only from the mind, but there is no one who is free. It's just the belief that this is important, this is personal, and this is serious. It's also just another thought arising in consciousness. Consciousness is impersonal, completely free. It's space-like, sky-like. And then the charged thought comes up. It may be extremely charged. It may be so charged that it will make you run for your life or it may be so charged that it make you scream from the top of your lungs or cry in misery and still if there is that space like that cognizing emptiness seeing i think i was actually uh describing at some point when when just a couple of days before bob passed away and a couple of days after the body was actually exhibiting a serious convulsions like And it was so incredible.
Wow. That was like, wow. What a.It wasn't personal. It was the charge action arising through the body. Even though the body looked like it was crying, there was no one there crying. It was just a charge action. And I've seen this body getting so worked up, again, because of the habit of conditioning. When Bob was, for example, abused or when someone would speak to him inappropriately, I could see the fists clenching and being ready to just deliver the punch. Yeah, this is how it was responding. And it was always amazing to discover because I don't know what it is going to think next. I don't know what it is going to say next.
I don't know what its reaction to apple crumble is going to be in five minutes. Let me see. How fascinating. And I think we have a comment here. Yeah, and also Christian's been waiting with his hand up for a while. Oh, Christian. Okay, go on. Yeah, you have to unmute.Are you talking? No. Yes, go on. We're here. Hi. That was a beautiful beginning. And just going back to the subject of Jesus and great beings, given it's Easter. One of the things he used to say was whenever he healed someone was that it was their faith that healed them, not me. So that sort of was his beautiful way of dismissing the idea of idolization.
Which is consistent too. And he also used to say things like, I am the way and the only way is through me. He wasn't talking about me, Jesus, the little character. He was talking about the Christ consciousness. So the same thing, he's talking about God, he's talking about pure naked awareness. And that's what he meant. That's the way. So unfortunately, a lot of these parables, a lot of these things were a little bit deceptive because, you know, they're not that clear. So they get so much misinterpretations that everyone thinks, oh, yeah, the only way is through Jesus or through Allah or... You know, Muhammad or something like that.But that's not it.
It's the, they're referring, they're representing the pure mind. They're saying, I've embodied that completely. And that's what I represent now. That's who I am now. That's why Buddha changed his name to Buddha, for instance, from Prince Siddhartha, because now I'm Buddha, which is the clear light mind. Anyway, so that's my little thing on Jesus. Another thing I think with respect to our lives in general and when we get frustrated and annoyed and impatient and just feeling knotted up and things aren't going right, all that sort of stuff. Like one thing that's really helpful, again, is this time thing. Like, say if you, like the other day I was putting a bed together.
It was just a single bed. It was a flat pack. And it was just the simplest thing, really. And I did absolutely everything wrong, you know. So I had to do the whole thing twice. It took me about two hours. Probably should have taken me about 15 minutes. And it was so ridiculous. But the thing... That was teaching me and that teaches us is that what's the issue with time? Like, why is there a sense that it's better to have completed it in the first run or in 15 minutes than in two hours? Like, what was more?important to be doing than this bed. You know, so we've invested, we invest this idea in time and which makes us impatient.
So it's like, so I kept resetting. It was like, you know, it doesn't, this is just, if you're in the zone, if you're back in that just clear like mind, you let go of whatever's happening. Then you can do it a hundred times. It doesn't matter because there is no time. There's no time wasted because there is no time. You're here now, you're complete a hundred percent in that, in this, in this pure awareness. So, so then, so that's a great, to me, that's a, that's a very helpful thing to hook into when stuff's, frustrating us and when we're feeling a patient stuck in traffic or and all that because it's there's there's nothing being lost there's nothing you know we're investing in the moment and thinking oh you know i've got to get this done when it's done then i'll relax i'll sit in it and lie in it and it'll be nice you know then it'll be nice that sort of thing so that's just I think that's just a helpful thing to remember when we're getting frustrated or whatever.
And I might go back to also what Dean said about the sun and about magnifying glass. So I meditate a lot and I believe and I love meditation. I love the bliss and going into it and all that sort of stuff. And because... It's resetting all those neuron pathways.to stop being so graspy, stop being so stuck in everything and being thrown around by whatever it seems to be going on, which is our habit. So it's reverted to me. Reversing the habit it's going back to that it's going back to being the sun and it's and the magnifying glass is like the meditation so it's it's focused so it's so to me it's like a reset so i know bob was kind of down on that sort of thing down practices and that's that's fine because when when you're teaching on duality um it's all about just bringing people back to back to it and there's nothing to be done there's nowhere to go there's only change there's no preferences kind of thing So, nevertheless, for me, meditation is like reversing all that habitual stuff and being second.
It's amazing. I love being the sun. I love going back to that source, just being it. It's so blissful and wonderful. Everything shines and that sort of stuff. So, yeah, so I know Dean said last week that meditation was bullshit. So that's my little dig at that. Anyway, I'll just leave it there. No, that's beautiful. And it's quite a few beautiful highlights that you made, actually. We had last week, I think I even posted it on Facebook because we had a request for other speakers. And thank you for contributing. Jenny was saying she doesn't do meditation, but she often sits on the chair. And that sitting on a chair without any label is really diving in.into and what you highlighted if there is any sense of discomfort in the body if there is any sense of frustration if there is any sense of uneasiness there is always a wonderful wonderful invitation to be present because you can't ignore it and they're just just to give it and uninterrupted attention because that's usually a call for attention take the labels off and be with it just the way you know like when you mention jesus says the only way to the father is through me apparently bob would say is mistranslation the only way to the omnipresence omnipotence omniscience is through the i am I am, not me.
I am, the sense of presence. And he would also say, I am is the way. I am is the truth. I am is the light. So again, the I am, the sense of existence, not the thought, not the words, not the I, personal, me, owning the sense of presence, because there is no one there to own it. The owner of a presence is purely imaginary. There is no one there. It's just the presence. And we have a comment here from Gilbert. He says, there is no freedom for the me. Exactly. The freedom is from the illusion of me, is from the illusion of separate self.
He says, there is no freedom for the me. The me of memory is a fiction of the imagination. As Bob pointed out, you will never work.it out in the mind so where does that leave you beautiful rather than trying to grasp it understand it work it out and remember have the recipe have the prescription okay if i eventually arrive at the equation then i will write it down keep it in the pocket and i will be enlightened no there's no i that can arrive at any understanding and can keep it and hold it and own it. And who does not understand I am? Who does not understand that they exist?
Is there anyone who doubts their own existence? Or who can stop it or pause it? And that is the only understanding that there is. There is nothing else to understand. If anything, the obscuration, the idea that, oh no, there is something more that I need to know. There is something more that I need to get. No, if anything, it is the unlearning, is just recognizing those concepts and just pushing them out of the way. The concept that I am not enlightened and I will get enlightened in the future or I will get liberated from the self or from the me. There's no one to get liberated from anything.
There is just that pure presence and the thoughts, pre-charged, low-charged, high-charged, the whole entertainment happening within.in the sky like omnipresence within that omnipresence and you can see how many different cameras is viewing it how many different concepts in one given moment potentially appearing and vibrating into existence through that capacity of imagination through that capacity of dreaming, the infinite creativity of that creative power called God or Creator, through every single pattern, every single shape, every form, appearing as a sound, appearing as any form of vibration, as the wave of the electromagnetic wave or the infrared or the color or the sensation, because even the solidity of the body is just what it has been constructed in that projector.
The solidity where is the solidity when you're dreaming when everything that shows up pre-charged is made of nothing it's made of dream stuff and when you are falling oh it feels like i'm falling or when you're making love oh that feels real too doesn't it or fear shit you know the big monster solid where is the solidity what is it made of the mind is constructing the projector is constructing the solidEvery single dream. And you can have dream within the dream, within the dream, within the dream. We can have the collective dream of whatever. Donald Trump, popular dream. I don't know much about it. But people get really, really high on that dream.
Either love or hate, whatever. There is some high going on. So charged thoughts. That's all there are. And if you can see that in that impersonal field of existence is that constantly pre-charged entertainment, attention moving to sensation, oh, back pain, ouch, or attention moving to a sound, I like it, I don't like it, attention moving as a narrative. All of that, one essence, experiencing, expressing as every single wave, as the wave of thought, as the language, as the commentary, as the perception, as the sensation. Wow, what a show. And who is watching it? Oh, there is an appearance of someone watching. Mmm, cool. Oh, and there is also a sensation that that one watching is me, is I, is personal, is serious.
Wow, that is just another appearance, another persistent illusion appearing in that I am, in that certainty of existence. Anyone can argue with that. That's the very, very basic representation.that on experiential level, hard to argue with that. No science can deny it. That is the experiencing. And the meaning, of course, and the story, and the belief, and the movement of attention, and the preconditioned movement of attention, that probably if there is an explosion, every single, including the cat, will have a behavior that has been preconditioned. And now the assumption of the past, where the conditioning happened, all of it. An incredible dance of forms appearing in that pure potentiality pattern shapes forms thoughts images sensations perceptions meanings And who cares?
Who needs to understand it? Why? What for? And how would that understanding look like? How would it look like? Like an equation or like a mantra or concept? And who cares? Let's say you have the final or Bob had the final understanding and he never said it to anyone or Buddha or Jesus or whatever. Where is it? Isn't that just another mental projection? Another mental image, something to be had? Another appearance in that?of experiencing So there is nothing that is required. There is nothing that is missing, nothing that is lacking, nothing to be had, and no one to have it. Every unique moment is already made of pure cognizing emptiness.
and the objects of cognition that are constantly fleeting, changing, so they are not reality, they are maya, the illusion. Thoughts coming, going. Perceptions coming, going. Sensations coming, going. Meaning coming, going. Moods coming, going. Weather coming, going. What doesn't go? And what, apart from that certainty of existence, is there anything else? That doesn't change. The sense of me. There is no sense of me. There is a sense of presence. And there is interpretation. Yes, but this is me. This is my. There is a contraction here. That's who I am. No, you're not the contraction.You are. But what you are? Oh, that's the thought appearing again, interpreting.
Oh, but I am here. I'm limited to the body. No, that's just another charged thought appearing. That you are is beyond question. What you are? Well, you can have thousand ideas. Which one is true? Bob would say, you know, everyone will have a concept about you and you will have a concept about yourself. And your concept about yourself will change from morning to night. Which concept is right? Can the concept ever be right?So even the concept that, okay, there is a presence, but it is my presence. I'm separate. I feel this presence. How do I know that you or you feel the same presence? Well, that's very, very easy.
Tell me, how is your present different? What capacities, how distinct is it? What qualities does it have? Is it hot or cold? Is it dark or light? High or low? Left or right? No qualities. If it has no qualities, it can't possibly be different. Because it's only the qualities that differentiate. So your presence and this cat's presence and his presence are quality less. Pure being, no ink. And preference or contentment no qualities it is only differentiated by the idea but this is i'm here and he is here so we not one it's only an idea persistent idea yes just like in the dream when the monster is chasing you absolutely convincing idea yes But idea nonetheless.
Charged idea, yes. But if you see them again from the groundedness of being, wow, what a charged idea. Look at this. Ooh, wow.Why not? Why not? Bring it on. Chacha deal, sunshine, Easter, chocolate eggs. Wow. So convincing. So real. It's self-evident, it's self-explanatory. Why is that oneness veiled by that infinity of juicy, colorful kaleidoscope of experiencing and expressions? If you take the personal element out of it and you look around and your mind is blown in Why not? Why not? Who says that it would be better if there was just plain nothing?If the potentiality for that incredibly, incredibly juicy, radiant show, dance is here, why not?
So now there are no questions. Who is to ask the question? The mind is blown away and it is just pure experiencing, pure experiencing, being. And, you know, things are still appearing and disappearing, unfolding like the mirror. Reflecting everything that shows and objecting to nothing and allowing everything to be reflected and mirror doesn't say oh but this that reflects is not real or it is real or it is illusion or it isn't or it appears to be real but it's not it has absolutely nothing to say about anything And ultimately, this cognizing emptiness has absolutely nothing to say about anything. And this is being said after one and a half hour of talking, basically pointing into that silence behind, which for whatever weird reason, because we don't need to give it any meaning and any reason.
Delights in having a voice.That's why he has it, even though there's no why. Anyone? Commonly, like just a common response to all of this would be, I really, I get what you're talking about. You know, as you speak, I get the sensation and I really get it. Yet there's a sense that I'm in this body and that you're there. And like, you know, there's me, like it always comes back to me. There's a sense I'm in this body. But I understand what you're saying. Like, I get it. I get this. And when you speak, for a little moment, I just relax and I really get a sense of it.
But then, you know. You have to say, I agree with you. Come on. Because that's what often people say. I agree with you. You convinced me. It's not about. No, no, that's... So, like, I walk away here and, you know, I still have to pay the bills, you know, I have to work, I have to make decisions and I have to look after the family and do this and that and the other. And so I get what you're saying, but... I still, yeah. Yeah. What do you have to say? Yeah, Bob would say. If you ever smoke cigarettes, if you don't, don't start. But if you did, what did you do with the butts?Yes, but, yes, but, yes, but.
Throw away the buts. Or see, is there, what is it, that convincing sense of seriousness that brings up all the buts? Yes, I'm convinced. I'm not convinced. Yes, I agree, but I kind of don't. Yes, but conditionally. Yes, but only if. Yes, but what about the tax? You know, and Bob would say, and of course, and he knows, and we all know that deep inside, underneath that layer of that narrative that always argues and comments on everything.you weren't born with any separate sense of self. And yet, if you were hungry, the scream happened. If the bladder was full, emptying was happening. And there was no separate self taking credit for any of it.
And then along the line, The program of taking credit for whatever is happening, whatever is being thought, for emptying the bladder, for breathing and for screaming has been installed. That piece of software narrating and taking credit, this is I. I have to pay the bills. I have to scream as a baby. I had to pee my pants as a baby. And now I continually have to do that. This. No, no, no, now I can upgrade. Maybe not, don't bring the images of taking the puzzle. Anyway, the taking credit program is the only difference. The baby that everything was happening as the body with its all self-preservation instinct was screaming when necessary, was laughing when necessary.
The same body was screaming when necessary yesterday or laughing when necessary a week ago. And the same body will be screaming in 10 years whether that message is resonated with.and taken on board or not. Whether I believe in being separate self or I don't believe in being separate self, the heart is going to be beating, the scream is going to happen, the bladder is going to be emptied. Whether I believe that this is me doing it, paying the bills and taking kids to school and fighting with husbands or whatever, or that belief is absent, The same applies. The sweating will happen. The next thought will arrive and it will be spoken or it won't be spoken, depending on the conditioning.
There never was a self that was paying the bills. Bills were paid. It happens in autopilot. So whether I believe that, okay, yesterday I was separate self and I had to pay the bill. Today, I believe I'm no separate self and there is no one there and I'm going to get evicted because I'm not going to pay the bills. No, this is the major misconception. That now there is an ego that was running a show and now we'll kill the ego and take it out and the show will not be run and then the whole world will fall apart there never was an ego running a show the recognition is simple Just like screaming was happening in a little baby.
Just like rolling from one side in the bed to the other side of the bed. Just like learning how to walk.happened of its own without any agency required without any little ego of the baby running the show and moving the legs the same way walking happens today nobody does that nobody ever did The only difference is the narrative software, the program, the commentary says, no, I am doing it. This is I, this is me. Imagine self, I am doing it. But this, it's gone. Yeah, like the expression of being on automatic, then people just, that notion pops up of being on automatic and that notion, that means that, oh, that just got done.
And the same as like the notion of the attention was elsewhere and it's like, oh, that just got done. So there's a couple of like, I don't like to get into experiences because then people are coming from somewhere or someone's doing it. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, I sometimes tell people just for the sake of simplicity, the whole dream runs on autopilot. All of it. There is everything. All of it is the algorithms running completely mechanical, preconditioned. The next thought is also somewhat preconditioned. The next movement of my arm is somehow preconditioned. The conscious element of it is that witnessing presence or cognizing emptiness.So there is a conscious element witnessing being the space, being the pure existence in which the mechanical behavior, the expression, the movement happens.
And that's it. And you are that space-like conscious element. You are not the machine moving the blood, breathing, beating heart. Go on, Tony. Yeah, that's why I sometimes think it's not being, it's more like a mechanical, everything is mechanical, everything is like an Indian philosopher, I guess, a Chewbacca, everything is like a mechanical universe. It's just, yeah, it's not spiritual, it's just... Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, that's simple enough, straightforward enough. You're not the doer, but the one who is not the doer is not your true self. Yeah, it's just stuff popping up, right? Yeah. By stuff, I don't mean defined, you know, definitions.Yay. It's not nothing.
It's not like you're talking about not the void. Not the void. Not the void, yeah. It might have been the void, and who cares? You know, if there's such thing as better, then, you know, it would be there to care. There just wouldn't be any caring notions popping up if there was a void. That's what I'm saying. No caring notion. Yeah, and that's just the same as there being no void. Yeah, this is actually the same value on it.Thanks, Tony. Yeah. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Happy Easter. Happy Easter.