This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
And that can be a great place of refuge. Our conditioning since we were born has been to not place our attention on that awareness, but to place our attention on everything that is appearing within the awareness. We have been conditionedto place a lot of attention at our body, at our appearance, at our human beingness. So much to the extent that we came to the conclusion that this is what I am. I am this body. I am. My thoughts, I am my feelings.Yet if we start to investigate that, we notice that our body that we think that we are, has changed a lot since we were born.
So which of my bodies am I? Am I the newborn baby? Am I the two-year-old toddler? Am I the rebelling teenager?Am I the one in my prime and my 30s before the decay begins? Or am I this aging woman? Which of these bodies am I? Because all the parts of the body, they have changed so much. The cells have changed. Cells have died. Cells have been born. Some of us have body parts that have been exchanged.Am I less? Does that affect? Is there less of me if I have to take away an arm? Or something else. So the body is definitely changing. And Bob used to remind us of that.
Everything that is changing is changing and is not what's constant, what's really real. Because there needs to be something that is never changing for there to be the ability to notice that there is change.So if the body is always changing, well, we probably aren't just the body. And the same goes with our emotions and with our thoughts. They are also changing all the time. They come and they go. But the awareness, the noticing, the registering, is constantly, is always here.Sometimes we may be more aware of it than other times. This life experience, the life we are living, we could compare it with when we are at the movies.
Sometimes the movie is so exciting, so thrilling, So it draws us in that we forget to eat our popcorn. We forget that we are in the movie. We forget everything. And when somebody gets scared in the movie, we jump up in our seat and we too scream. We are so into the movie. That our body reacts as if we were also on the screen.And the same is happening in this life movie. Sometimes we get so totally into something that we absolutely forget that the awareness is there that is registering it all. It's like, oh, wow. You know, we can become lost and we can become lost in what we would be classifying as quote unquote negative if we are in the duality, which would be when we are getting totally involved in an argument and feel like somebody has stepped on our toes and we feel insulted or whatever and we start to defend ourselves and we totally forget that.
The awareness is there that cannot be offended. So that would be a negative example, a so-called negative example. A positive way would be when we're in the flow, if we are in the midst of a creative project or a... Dancing or doing something where we also get totally, totally absorbed into what's going on. And we totally forget time and space.And in essence, one seems like it's positive and the other seems like it's negative, but It's the same. In essence, it's the same. It's just that we at that moment, That is what's happening. It's not worse than looking up on the sky on a cloudy day or when it's totally foggy and overcast.We don't see the sun.
We can't feel the sun, but we do know it's there. It's there somewhere. And where every time I look up on an overcast sky, I don't think about that the sun is actually hidden behind the clouds or behind the overcast. I still think that it's cloudy. And the same thing happens in the play. The other day,I was sitting on my pillow that I sit on sometimes. Some call it meditation. I call it just sitting on my pillow. And I was aware of that. My head started to... There was a lot going on in my mind. And it was so beautiful because suddenly I just hear Bob's voice.
Don't stop.And full stop happened. And the voices, they just disappeared, full stop. And that led me to begin to then, it stopped and then new thoughts came. Who did that stop? Did I do that full stop? Is there free will or what's happening? And then again, full stop. And I realized that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who's doing the full stop. It doesn't matter if I think that I am doing it or it's doing itself or whatever. The beauty is the full stop. That it is possible, that full stop is possible.that that refuge is actually also there at any point of time. Whatever is going on.
Full stop is possible. We can hold our breath for a second. And when we hold our breath, then the full stop automatically happens. The mind action stops.It's so easy to think that we need to be able to explain everything with theories. Or to ponder things intellectually. But the fact is that the only thing that there is, is this moment's experience.So what can we be aware of in this moment? What is actually true and real in this moment. We don't even have to label it. What is in this moment? What is happening in this moment? And just see that all is just appearing here and now.
And that nobody actually has to do anything for anything to appear.Our heartbeat beats. I mean, I don't have to do anything either for the words that come out of my mouth or coming out of my mouth. I'm just sitting here. And allowing what will come, come. Like if I was a flute and life itself is playing a tune. Through me. And I don't know what the tune will be.I have no idea. No, whatsoever. Yeah. So full stop and just resting into the silence.being sniffed by the mystery, the curiosity. What will unfold in the next moment? What will unfold? We think that we have so much control.
We think that we know so much. But truth is, we have no clue. None of us knows what's going to happen in the next moment. We don't know.And the best way of being reminded of that is just to look at the weather outside. We never know when it will change. Can change very gradually or very sudden. And we don't know what thought will pass through our head. It can come very suddenly or creep up on us. Emotions can change from one moment to another.One phone call can turn the world upside down or the other way around. We don't know anything. We're just here for the ride.
For the ride to experience all that there is to experience. Both sides of the coin. And that's what I loved about Bob when he gave the example of both sides of the coin or two ends of the stick. To remind ourselves that one can't be there without the other. So this illusion that everything, that we should always be happy or in a good mood or everything should always go smooth. While living this experience. That's an illusion. That's not the way it will. It will go between the two ends of the stick. Both ends have to be there for one side to be experienced.So that is life will.
Life will be lifing between these different poles, between the ups and the downs and the lefts and the rights, all these opposites. That we need to be able to experience where the whole life is happening in between.Yeah. That's just happening. But it is quite a relief when realizing that nothing has to be taken so personally. When the identification with the body-mind costumeisn't made in concrete. I deliberately say made in concrete because I'm not going to pretend that it never is there. No. Different moments when triggers come, when reactions come. And that's okay. That's okay. That's also just something that happens. Yet there is still an awareness, there is a knowing that that actually also just is something that happens and is not taken so deadly serious.
It's just one frame in the movie of life.Just an expression, as all other things are expressions. Yeah. Yes, that's it. That's it. Yeah, I stopped there.That's delightful, absolutely delightful. The ease of not knowing and of not needing to know. Tanya, you should be unmuted. Hello. Hello, folks. I don't know if I just did technical things. I've just noticed this, but I noticed the sound when Jenny was speaking going in and out. Is it just me? No, I heard her all right. Okay, okay. Because I turned off my, yeah, I turned off my video and I think that might have helped. That was a beautiful spiel, Jenny.
That was really beautiful. Lots of really beautiful reminders in there. Especially, especially, I like the reference to music and just flutes being played. You have no idea what the tune is. It's going to be one moment to the next, but really, really great to be reminded thatEven the fights, even the yelling, even the disagreements, even the stuff that is supposedly negative. Well, without that, how would we rejoice in the absence of it? Or enjoy the opposite end of the stick. Pairs of opposites. There's no experiencing without it. Pairs of opposites, absolutely crucial to the whole shebang.as it is. And as you say, Jenny, you know, in the heat of the moment, when there's an explosion of anger or something, I'm not going to pretend that, you know, there isn't a wonderful experiencing of this body, why this illusion of this, you know, happening.
Why would you do that?Gosh, you know, like we said before, humanness included, it's all part of the wonderful theatre, part of the theatre. If you're watching the movie, if you're watching, if you went to a theatre and you're watching actors on the stage roaring at each other or laughing or singing or whatever, and you, you know, You saw through them the whole time as if, you know, they were just wafts of air moving around. Pretty much of a theatre.be much at all. All of it, all of it or none of it. Love all of it or none of it. I think that's pretty hard to do the second option.
But that's it, isn't it? You've got to, you know, when the seeming negatives come up, and I love that too. Because that's what enables so-called positive stuff to be experienced. We can't have one without the other. And we were talking about cats, pussycats and freedom the other day. And a cat, a pussycat. doesn't really have a concept about being free or not being free, or being caught up as a seeker and being entrapped in seeker becoming or wishing or seeking.Because the cat has never imagined being that. The cat never enjoy imagining being free of that. So to have to enjoy the concept or the joy of being free, you have to be able to imagine not being free.
What's wrong with that? What can you do about it? What can you do about it?Because, again, as Jenny said, no idea what the flute's going to play next, or the trumpet, or the sax, or whatever. Whatever. We're not driving the bus. Nobody driving the bus. Thank goodness. Yeah, thank you again, Jenny. That was really, really good. Really good.And what was also beautiful was that energy, that peaceful transmission of the relaxed, celebration of no idea. Celebration that, oh, I don't have to squeeze my butt to figure it out. Because it is. I'm open, I'm here. I'm happy to be surprised. I'm happy to discover that next tune, next thought, next behavior.
Whether the thought is going to be an outburst of eruption of a volcano of anger, or whether it is going to be lovey-dovey kindness type of a thought. I don't know. I don't know. I had, as usually on that day, my ladies group, painting art group, where we had another beautiful, gentle conversation with one of the ladies who claims that, yes, I get it all. I get it all. But I. You know, and then comes the story. I'm still getting trapped. I'm still getting, oh, and Nisargadatta says, be earnest. I'm still not there yet. And that's the melody the flute is playing. That is what shows up on the screen of awareness.
That is.And then what happens is the attention gets trapped in it and it feels like, yeah, but there is no cognizing emptiness. There is no knowing of it because I'm completely identified as that which is seeking or angry or whatever the story. And I'm not free to witness whatever is arising. Well, surprise, surprise, there is no one to be trapped, there is no one to be free. The witnessing, the knowing is happening without any personal attendance. Just like the seeing, when we look at the dynamic of seeing itself, you know, it has different modes. There is this relaxed attention, this sort of peripheral gaze where seeing isn't really focused on anything in particular.
It's just an open field of presence of seeing. And then you might just get something, a good blink from Julia, and just look and investigate it very, very closely, just really focused, really focused gaze. And then how does the seeing care? What is the difference for that pure capacity, the capacity for seeing, whether it is seeing something
pretty or something ugly or whether it is seeing like the wide gaze it makes no difference the seeing isn't touched by that which is attending to and bob used the example of seeing because it's so it's so uncompromising and you can also collapse that seeing and see that recognize that the content is secondary to the capacity.
Capacity for seeing comes first. And it is same with the attending, attention. You know, oh, I get trapped because the thought comes up and it feels personal, it feels urgent. And then suddenly I am, this is my thought, this is personal, this is me. Well, again, the feeling of things being personal is just another tune arising in that field of attention, in that field of cognizing emptiness. There is a feeling arising and maybe there is a judgment of the, oh, that means that I'm not getting it. That means I'm still separate. Yes, that is also arising. Feeling is arising, the analysis of the feeling is arising, and the judgment of the analysis is arising.
What's space have to say about that? Does it even care? It is absolutely, completely relaxed with whatever is arising. It doesn't mind. It is open to see and discover. Yes, yes, but I feel like I am that person.trapped that I am that thought that says I within that thought that says I that is where I am well how do you know Obviously, that is being described. Yes, Ivan, please unmute. Yes. Are you hearing or it's still very low? No, it's much better. It's much, much, much better. Okay. Yeah, I was talking, I was thinking about the resting place. In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says that the foxes have their holes and the birds have their nests, but the Son of God has no place to rest his head upon.
So, yeah, we have no resting place because we are already everything. We are the Satya Dananda and we are... We don't need a nest to hide. We cannot hide because where would you hide when there is no thing to hide? Only a thing can hide and we are not a thing. Yeah, it's what Jenny was talking about. Yeah, there is no rest in place. And the rest is when you say full stop. Because when you say something, then there is a boundary. When you say something, then you define it.something or you say that is dead and that is dead then you have all objects and only objects can hide but we are not an object so there is no place to hide there's only only dead and we don't need a nest as a bird that's what i wanted to say Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That desperation to find a respite, that tendency, okay, maybe if I get a better job or promotion or million dollar in the bank, or maybe this, or maybe this, or maybe when I find enlightenment, I will be addressed. There is no one there. It's just an urge arising in the space which is already at peace and at rest, restful. But we have Cornelius and Blaszanka. So Cornelius, would you like to mute first? Thank you. Thank you, Jean. There seems to be a lot of stories about pots, pots made out of clay, and that the space inside the pot is separated from the space outside the pot until the clay pot is broken.
And then there was never any difference between the space in the pot and the space outside the pot.There's waking up in the morning and there's clothes on the bed and there's breathing. And the breathing goes into the bathroom and then there's seeing and seeing down into the bowl of the toilet at the water. And then there's a feeling of like eternity. Like I'm always here in the toilet. But then there's like, there's other moments. I'm always sitting here in bed with this book. And there seems to be like an infinite variety of different environments and It's always now and it's always here. But like the space that was in the pot before the pot was broken, once the pot's broken or the pot, it's realized that the pot was never there.
The two spaces were never separated. It seems to be. Like that with time, that time only exists via thinking. If you don't think there's no time, how can there be? So if those things float away, there's a Like, yeah, we talk about, all right, when I was a little boy and where's that little boy's body gone and like time passed and he was.like a rebellious teenager and then an adult. And then now he's this old guy. It's like, well, that thought, unfolds spontaneously and instantaneously right in this moment right now. And isn't that amazing? The paradox of like a million years unfolding right now. It's like the dream you have where you're walking through this barren landscape and in the distance you can hear strange music.
And what is that music? And it seems to be like you're moving towards this music. Like, is it church bells in a medieval village because it's Sunday morning? And you wake up and realize it was the alarm clock. The conscious, the creative mental thing, backfilled this whole adventure in the desert, walking towards the church on a Sunday morning. And it's like, wow, like, so that's like constantly happening or it's just happening. I remember a long time ago, they used to say that the moment you meet the guru and the point where you become enlightened, yeah, okay, story, but it's the same moment. So the entire illusion...
Is not like dread.ragging on for 65 years, the illusion is just like right now. And so when it's gone, it's like, ah, right now. And it's the difference between being squeezed into the pot and the pot's not there and the pot was never there. And all the striving stops and all the going somewhere stops and all the being bothered stops. And yeah, like we say, like, it's like, well, you step on my tail, then I'll, but it's just like, yeah, it was over very quickly. And the best thing in your life is over very quickly. And the worst nightmare come true is over very quickly.
And you're on the other side of it. It's like, oh, back with the space without any pots. So, yeah.Yeah, that's such a beautiful metaphor and it's so helpful too. And we have Blaszanka, would you like to unmute? Yeah, thank you. I'll just continue like when Jenny was talking and I'm listening and, you know, just remembering how many times I would spend and look at myself, especially like teenage years and going like, who am I? Like there was no connection to the body. It's like, who? And, you know, when Jenny was saying about, you know, when you're born and in two and it doesn't matter. That's something that's changing, but what never changes, the knowing.
I am, I am, but, you know, the body changes, but that never changes. The existence never changes.And isn't that just beautiful? Just going, you know, with that, living with that. Just knowing I am and there's really nothing to do with the body. So beauty of that. And my neighbor just said a brand new baby. It's like three months old. And, you know, when she's out and I see her, like, yeah, like, you know, I go and talk to her and I just kind of absorbed and, you know, I'm aware of it. In the moment, she's trying to talk to you with the goo goo gaga.
The next second she's crying. And it's like, who is doing that? You know, we think we cry because we're upset and all that. The baby does not know why she's crying because it's happening. And it's just a thing.So the beauty of just being. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that was pretty much it that I wanted to share, how amazing it is just knowing I just am and it's really got nothing to do with this. Yeah. That's it. Thank you. That's beautiful. That's just, ah, how relaxing it is. Everything that has ever been needed is already present. There is absolutely nothing that needs to be searched for or found.
It is already present, shining of its own, ever fresh, right now. Not in a thousand satsangs, not in the ten lifetimes, not when I do enough of hours, thousands of hours of this, that or the other, right now. And the contentment, the relaxation. Okay, so because one of the ladies on today's group says, okay, so what am I going to do now? Because when the mind is rushing, how do I pause the thoughts? How do I enlarge or extend the gap? Yes, the doing is also arising. Just like the screaming, the crying of a child is a...or a bird looking for the nest is arising.
Nothing that life itself needs to do. The patterns are already available for the experiencing and expression. The patterns are already preconditioned for the bird to fly, for the cat to meow, for the baby to cry or gurgle or whatever. There is absolute nothing. Not only like Jenny was saying, I don't know the next tune. I don't know the next urge. I don't know the next thought, the next action, the next behavior. I don't need to know that. There is no one there. Who needs to control anything whatsoever because it already runs of its own it's already designed to it is self-organizing universe and the pot and the space inside and the space outside the seeming part also made of space also a vibration of space and the music coming from that flute the same vibration not the same the vibration is always unique but it's equally just a vibration i think we have some comments here on the on the screen uh jenny says the birds are that too thomas forgot that in the gospel and the week and Yvonne saysI will ask for rectification, Jenny.
And a laughter. Beautiful Cornelius. Genesis to Cornelius. And Marianne says, I like that Cornelius, the worst nightmare and the best day in your life are over. You see, even the idea of day, Bob used to love quoting his sense in Ming, that, you know, beyond words, beyond mind, beyond language, there is no tomorrow. There is no yesterday beyond memory, beyond imagination, beyond the processing capacity of that mental imaging machine. And not today. There is not even today. Today is also a wide concept. It's just this, ever fresh, over, but still here. Anything that you can grasp, anything that you can remember or make a mental image or, you know, like snapshot is gone.
But the freshness of life never goes anywhere. It's always here.I'm going to pick a card. Is that going to show? Yes, that's a beautiful card. That's a little thing I made in Corsica in France. I was scuba diving probably a good 20 plus years ago. It says resonate. Resonate with that. You can't find any beginning to this body, any original cell. Go back to your ancestors, the food they ate, prana, all contributed to it. There is no beginning, only spontaneous flow.There is no beginning. Beginning, like Bob also, another beautiful pointer, showing how that whole amazing game comes into existence through construction of the overlay of language, of symbols and mental images.
In the beginning was the word. Without the word, you can't label anything as beginning. So there is no beginning. It is beginningless, endless, timeless, spaceless, bodymind, bodiless, mindless. Just this. But you put the word beginning. Ah, okay. And you trace the beginning. Trace the beginning of the body. Okay, maybe the conception. No. Even prior to the conception, the cells were already alive. Even prior to the aliveness of those cells, there was the food when the grandmothers and the grandfathers met and the energy in that food that made them. Create feel safe enough to find attraction the energy of that attraction the energy of procreation then the the construction of those cells passed over to to the parents you can't chase the beginning and even chasing the beginning is a story too because heyWhere is it now?
And is there an original cell? If I don't think about it, is there a body? What is the experience? And this is the beautiful little experiment in which you actually see, and Blagenta has touched upon it beautifully, you know, aliveness, the presence, the existence. Is not generated by this transmitter receiver machine. The aliveness, the energy field, the pure potentiality exists, whether you stick the body in that field or you don't. It's like, you know, the electromagnetic waves are penetrating, the pure potentiality penetrating. You put on the TV and you see the screen. You put on the body and there is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
But the aliveness, the pure existence, the intelligence energy, like Bob used to like to call it, is there. And from that field, the body, the mind, the thinking, the labeling, the construction of the world within the world, moment within the eternity and the next one happens through the capacity of creation. No wonder they sometimes call it God or Creator.creative capacity of that of that field of energy which we sometimes called attention also whatever it attends attend to the seeing wow focus on the hearing yes anything that is acknowledged as existent. Well, was the acknowledgement first or was it the existence first? And who wants to divide that?
And can you? Can you divide, can you separate the attending from what is attended to? Can you separate the seen or the seer from the process of seeing?Can you separate anything that arises in the dream from the field of knowing that it is arising? And then it becomes just like, okay, there's nothing to do. And yet the doing will happen, just like heartbeat is happening. The thoughts are happening. Pleasant, painful, all of it is happening. No doing required. Just the illusion of personal doing, of control, personal control, that one is seen through. And everything happens as it always did because the illusion of control has always been just that, the illusion.
So if you were in charge, Yesterday and today you realize, oh shit, you know, that was just an illusion. Yesterday it was illusion also. No matter how real it would feel. And I think we have a new... Oh, no, this is the same comment.Come on, everyone. Join the explorations. Oh, yes, come in. There is seeing, which is very powerful, like the primacy of vision. Then there's hearing. Then there's the feeling, the touch that comes through the skin and the taste that's in the mouth and the smell of the world.Of course, what are they? What is it? Each sense refers to the elements, like there is space and out of space comes hearing and there is light and out of light comes seeing.
And anyway, it's this progression of things. The point is that all this information appears to arrive at a central point, at this reception point where the perceptions arrive and are in interpreted, the point where they arrive and the interpretation, there's a That's the point where the, that's the substance of the veil, that the illusion is, and all this seems very convincing. And it's biologically, it's supposed to be convincing because it stops you falling out of the tree. It stops you getting eaten by some creature that was using this path yesterday. And that as an organism, it seems to be all that's there. There's no claws here.
There's no armor. There's not even any fur. So this business of like all those perceptions arriving here to make this organism somehow think.that it's something other than just a sort of monkey, it's very convincing. All that arises. In the awareness. And that is pretty hard to put your finger on, that awareness.It is impossible because it's not an object. It's the pure subjectivity. Yeah, beautifully put, Cornelius. And Jens, would you like to unmute? Yes, thank you. I have a question, actually, for all and everyone. If we stop. And don't think.How do we know that the body is not us or real? How do we know that all and every phenomena isn't who I am?
isn't real. Thank you. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. What do we know without the thought? How do we know whether we are or we aren't? Without the thought, can we even have question?Do we even care that I am this but not that? Or I am not this but that? If we stop. What happens to the seeking? One thing to know. Is there any need for that? Let's have a look. And whatever arises in that moment of stopping, if there is no thought to label it, comfort, discomfort, anxiety, contraction. If there is no thought disturbing that arising,Is there anything wrong? Is there any requirement to define it in any way?
Vibrations arising. Is there any even need to call it a vibration? measure how long it is going to last or what it is doing to the heart or a breath or whatever. Space doesn't need to do any of those. Yes, Colonel. There is being and there is knowing. And that's all good. The slightest elaboration on that or attempt to divide any of that into particulars or what ifs is just another string to lure the awareness back into the illusion. It doesn't matter. Who cares? Why do you ask? Et cetera, et cetera. Decision to cut it into bits. It's just like there is being and there is knowing.
And that's all that's needed to say. We try here to find novel and various ways of saying that, but that's what's being said, yeah?Yeah, beautiful. And Rohan said here in a chat, love the line from Xi Jinping, make the slightest distinction, however, and the heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. Yeah, that was also one of Bob's favorites because... He would, you know, it feels like, even without making a distinction, come on, heaven and earth, infinitely apart. But really? Really? Heaven is space. What can ever be apart from space? Earth, whatever concept you have of what the earth is, is still in space. They can't be separated.
It's only through language, through labeling, that we put them infinitely apart. Space, heaven, out there, far away. How do I get to heaven? Come on. I'm in this hell of a mind. And Ivanka is here in the chat. Everything goes on automatic. Perfect. No doer anywhere. Absolutely. Yes. And I also like to remind that, you know, the only conscious element is the knowing.Everything else, all the pattern that is arising is a pattern, pattern, whether it is a habit of behavior or whether it is a pattern of thinking. Tanya, would you like to add something? I just, yes, yes. Just Cornelius saying how, you know, You attempt to nail that down, put your finger on it, describe it, blah, blah, blah.
You know, you can say, and when Cornelius says, I am, the thought comes, oh, yes, it's empty. And then the opposing thought comes, no, it's full. And then they thought, no, it's empty. No, it's full. The opposites. This is how, see, there's no other, there's no other, this is it. That's how it works. That's how the game is played in pairs of opposites. And you see it's described as emptiness. It's described as absolute fullness because it's, There's no way to, I just, the so-called mind just can't wrap its head around it. Jumps, reverts, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Well, why do you help? Just, you know, why is it that I might just stop?
Give it up. Yeah, beautiful. And the experiencing within all the opposites.There's just all embracing the good and bad, the pleasant and painful, the black and white, the experience ink, the space like. Touched. Cornelis, you want? That it's empty and full. It's neither and both. Yeah, neither and both. It's beyond description. It's beyond language. And Hank says here in the chat box, who wants to know? Who cares? Who is asking? And this is always a valid question. If there is any grasping happening, any grasping, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm almost getting it. I'm getting it. Oh, yes, I resonate. I, I, I. Even that urge to grasp, that urge to understand, that urge to understand, to end the search, is just what is arising to no one.
No one cares. Space doesn't give a shit. It doesn't object to any arising. Even when the seeking is arising, The space, it doesn't even say yes, it doesn't say anything. It just is. The pure is-ness, the pure existence, the pure being, knowing, loving to be, the pure sat-chit-ananda, the relaxed. Space like skylike awareness that you can't like cornelius said you can't grasp it because it is the pure subjectivity it is what you are you can't objectify that because it isn't outside it isn't inside either because there isn't any inside or outside it is just just this just this and the dream is changing all around it you know right now you may be sitting somewhere or lying down somewhere but and then the the dream changes and you may be flying in the airplane or you may be running from the crocodile while the body is sleeping in bed or you may be engaged in the in the sexual fantasy or whatever it is the dream the content of the experiencing is constantly floating dancing lila maya dress colorful changing But the experiencing, the being, the knowing, space-like, pure aware-ing, life-ing, it doesn't want anything.
It doesn't need anything. It doesn't have that quality of arguing. With whatever is arising. It doesn't care what is arising. It doesn't mind what is arising. And this is the pure sentience, the witnessing presence, the cognizing emptiness, the pure singularity. And then object.Yes, but I, I, me, I want this, but I deserve this, but I'm not enough. That's just what's arising. That's the melody. That wind is blowing through that flute of that instrument. I think we have another couple. Couple of thoughts the space Yvonne says is unconditional love nothing wrong anywhere yeah unconditional completely unconditionally allowing everything including what in the human language is the opposite of love which really is just another form of the same one essence and Marianne says I wish I could be so relaxed about the new neighbor's cat which terrorizes our kittens in our garden.
Well, some things is better not to be relaxed about. I mean, if the bear is chasing you in the forest, don't get too relaxed. Let the body and do its thing. But the knowing... Of that is that tense the knowing about the stress is not tense see i yell at him and chase him away yes the yelling happens and the space allowing the yelling the space doesn't make any sound It doesn't chase anything. It allows the chase to happen.This space, this cognizing emptiness, it doesn't need to relax. It already is. You can't even say it's relaxed. It just is. It is as it is. But, you know, the closest you can say is no tension in it.
And Marianne also says, but when we are not here, the kittens are undefended. Well, Unfortunately, that will sound very harsh. But what do you think is going to happen with the kittens in 150 years? Or let's say 20. They're going to be dead.You know, yes, undefended birds, undefended mice, undefended spiders, undefended trees. Absolutely. That is maybe sooner. Yeah, well, yeah, let's hope not. I mean, of course, you know, this is love, which shows up as a worry for kittens. Yes, just recognize love. And there's only that many actions that the body will be able to exercise out of the circumstances. Some things, you know, the serenity prayer cannot be changed and have to be accepted.
And on the ultimate level, acceptance already there is just to be discovered. And Cornelius, would you like to meet?There's a thing. It's come up. My dad is going through the process of his body falling away. And it's a long, drawn-out process. I'm in Europe and he's in Australia, so I talk to him regularly, but I haven't seen an image of him. So yesterday I saw an image of him. And I haven't seen him since August. And he's sort of, he was a big bloke, like a big soldier, very,thick and rough looking. Now he's suddenly like a very tiny little skeleton and all that flesh has kind of fallen away.
And a strange thing happened. And of course, in our language and in our culture, it sounds disrespectful to go, well, look, the kittens are going to die. The little kids, they'll grow up and they'll become old people and they'll live on their own in bedsits somewhere in Footscray. And it'll be really sad. Sorry, but that's just the way it goes. That sort of doesn't come about on an emotional feeling level. On an emotional feeling level, this is deep, deep, like first it was a shock of seeing my dad looking like that. But then there was this kind of awareness of the shock, like, well, that's not him.
And if I talked to him on the phone, I wouldn't even notice that. It's like this information from this extra sense goes, oh, no, he's turned into a skeleton.a smiling, quite jovial skill. And I don't know, this is, this is thing. I mean, of course our, our attitudes, communally our attitudes towards death are culturally inscribed and other peoples in other societies have a quite different attitude. I mean, like when granddad dies, we don't sort of wrap him in bandages and stick him in a tree and hope for the best. I mean, the variation in cultural attitudes towards death is beautiful. Even the Irish attitude towards death is quite different to their neighbours across the river in England.
I don't know, and it's quite a thing that's quite... It's really scary to lose someone that you love. It's really scary to consider that this particular thing that I have identified so closely with forever is like, oh, my God, it's like falling apart and it hurts. And the stuff that used to work doesn't work. And the rest of it really hurts. I was like, yeah, but who knows that? Like, again, I go back to the space in the pot and the space outside the pot and going, oh, yeah, it's much better without the pot. It's like, well, the idea of the pot was only.memory anyway.
So, and of course, this is, this is again, for the sake of communication, you sort of cut it all up into little bits, but even the slightest elaboration or attempt to divide puts heaven and earth and infinity apart when really it was just a matter of taking the stone out of your shoe all along, wasn't it? Yes, and we have a couple of comments here again in the chat box. Marianne says, our last cat died as a result of the cat fight. Well, and undefended children, that was when we were talking about undefended. Thanks, says Deanne. And Marianne says, I'm concerned about my animals, naturally.
And Deanne says, can you make a little house for them with a run for when you are away, like a little chicken tractor, Marianne? And she says, Marianne says, there is an open window for them to come inside, a small gap, tricky for the older cat, but possible. Yeah, so back to non-duality then. What Cornelius was saying, yes, the approach to the idea of death, It's one thing.idea the worry the idea what can happen i remember one one of my mandala girls once came and and and her son was going to thailand and oh my goodness you have no idea what the creativity the mother can have in regards to what can happen what can happen to her favorite child who wasn't a child anymore oh you know they can catch him and cut his kidneys off or they can catch him and cut his liver off or they can do this or this can happen they can steal his money or the airplane can fall or this and at some point i say whoa whoa how about everyone from sitting around the table bring up three most ridiculous stories so we can make it absolutely laughable.
Because the truth is, going to the mind and imagining all those tragic situations is not going to get us anywhere. This is not a brainstorm. This is not creative thinking. What the end says here, it is. That's actually helpful. You know, Marianne, you may investigate the possibilities. Because worry of its own, it only serves the, you know, it brings stress into the system. And it debilitates the thinking. It actually, it cripples you rather than motivates you. It doesn't really, it's not reasonable. Especially the prolonged worry, recognizing love behind it.and finding creative solutions, that's the way. But in general, our approach and our dread, the dread, how horrible, how horrible death is, how horrible that, you know, the cells are dying in this body.
And if they didn't, we would call it cancer and the body would die. Death is inevitable. Life leaves on life. And Jo, I can see, would you like to unmute? Hey. Yeah, hi. Hi, Kat. Thank you very much. Thank you for having the meeting. And hi, everyone. I just love what you're talking about because, you know, I went through a horrible experience with, you know, I'm a murderer. I killed a snake. And, yeah. And I love what you said was, and I thought about it today when I came back up here to the farm, you know, the snake doesn't know it's dead. The snake doesn't know I'm the one with the story or with the narrative in my head.
And it doesn't know it's dead. It's not worried. It's not going to come back in the middle of the night and bite me because I killed it. So it's nice to laugh at that. Yeah, otherwise I would take it too seriously. So I find it really gently. Death does, it's a, we're dying every day. And I know it doesn't, that doesn't make it easier. It doesn't make anything easier or that, but. It just takes away the narrative from my mind. I'm the one who makes up the story of,What a horrible person I am for doing that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
neutral, nothing, it happened, I mean, God, that's a week ago. How could I, and where is it? It's in memory. It's in memory of what's happened. I mean, you know, I feel for the other ladies, beautiful cats, we do worry and we do care, but we don't know what's going to happen, you know, from day to day. I mean, those cats might attack the other one and give it a heart attack and that one could die. We don't know, you know, it's all going to unfold. But anyway, I just wanted to share that. Thank you very much. And that's actually a beautiful point you brought up, Jo.
It isn't really, and Marianne, you may just consider, it isn't really the kittens you're worried about, because when kittens are dead, they have no problem with being dead when they are asleep also. It is always... Those who are left behind. You know, Jo is not worried about the snake. Snake doesn't know it is dead. But she's having a narrative, oh, I'm a bad person. I had to kill that snake. I didn't want to, but I had to. And the snake died. And I allowed that to happen. Snake doesn't give a shit. Snake is back into the eternity of nothingness the vacation vacation from that eternity has ended and it is just in the blue bliss of pure potentiality but we are the ones you see i have the beautiful kitty next to meAnd of course, of course, I'm supremely grateful that he is well.
And his sister is roaming around too. And if they are dead, I'll be the one longing and missing. Not them. There is nothing that I would have to say about dead cat. It doesn't care about being dead. So it isn't really about the kittens that we are worried. We are worried about how is my life going to be without them. If I imagine my life without those kittens, that is not a nice image. And therefore, I'm subscribing to that image and it causes pain and I'm experiencing pain. While in this moment right now, the action will happen if the life moves you or the action doesn't happen if life doesn't move you.
Other than that, relaxed attention, witnessing or noticing the stories arising, the imagination arising, the fear arising. And sometimes, just for the heck of it, it's kind of sweet to recognize love behind it. But not to get overly attached. This is not the truth. This is just a phenomenon of imagination.And of course, you know. Solution will present itself. And even if it does, one day there will be no kittens. There will be adults, hopefully. You know, one day I had this chat with a mother of two young boys and she lied awake at night worrying about their future. She'd worry, you know, she'd be doing the dishes and she'd be worrying and creating all sorts of scenarios in her head and I asked her, do the kids look worried?
Are the kids worried? She says like, no, kids aren't worried. I worry for them.And okay, well, let's unpack that a little bit. How's that working for you? How is that in any way, do you have any so-called assistance or help to the kids, to your children you worry about so much? Anyway, it's the irony. If the snake had been, if only the snake had been a better warrior, it might be alive today. It might have avoided Joe's shovel or big boot or whatever she used to take it out. But it's kind of nonsense, really. If the environment, which is not separate from anything else that's happening in the environment, so moves Mary Ann to do something or do nothing, then that's exactly what was called for.And nobody, you know, nobody can.
There's nobody there to hold you responsible. Okay? Absolve yourself of all future guilt, present guilt about the potential catastrophes that might occur. It won't be your fault. Not least because you can't find anyone to blame, but because it's just that's what's happening. And it's not to say stuff won't happen one way or another. Of course it will. Of course the story will continue.Yeah. That's it. Yeah, beautiful. And the answer is, but the attachment, but then attachment too is just happening. Absolutely. No one does that. And Jenny says, between life and death, there is also a preference for the kitten or kittens or end or whoever to not suffer.
Absolutely. Attachment's happening. The preference is happening totally. And Marianne says, thank you, Tanya. And yes, this was beautiful, Tanya. And we have a comment here on Facebook Live. And this is from Gilbert. And Gilbert, actually, my Mandala girls were really appreciating your comments, Gilbert, just so you know. Day on the ball. And so do I. Self-centered activity is due to a belief in me. This activity can contrive all kinds of authority. None of it is true. As Bob would often say, that guy up there said, there is no me. Is he right or is he wrong? I better take a look and see for myself.
Watch the mind and see how it operates. The me can seem to be strong authority and sometimes an authority on non-duality. Contrived personal knowledge about non-duality is all a fabrication of the imagination. The self-center called me hands out certificates of enlightenment to anyone who validates me. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, that's beautiful too. Beautiful. What's there to know? Who's there to be a nowhere? Who is there to have any particular knowledge or understanding? If there is anyone who claims, I get that, well, keep looking. Because that bloke, as Gilbert says, that bloke, that guy up there, Bob up there in heaven said, there is no me.
Sometimes he would throw a few other funny descriptions about that guy who said, there is no me, have a look. Who is there to be an authority? Who is there to know anything? Who needs to know anything? Who needs to grasp or find anything? And that's the contrived personal knowledge about non-duality. What do you know? What do you know? What can you ever know?Apart from the certainty of existence, which is just a certainty, is not something that you know. No one can own that existence. No one can deny it either. Nothing to know, no one to know it. Nothing to get, no one to get it.
And there is nowhere to get also and no one to become also. It's like Jenny started, you know, just complete unknowability and absolute relaxed comfort with unknowability, not needing to figure anything out whatsoever, just being the presence for the unfolding.discovering the next tune of that music. What's around the corner, Bob would say. How it is going to resolve. Just a childlike curiosity. And even that is somewhat a human element. And what's wrong with that? Human element, human preference, human attachment. What's wrong with that? That's another wave of arising. Human resentment, that's a wave of arising. Comparison, all of it. Urge.Urge to seek and find. Look at this cat.
Urge to lick his own face. Arising. And who is there, like I think Hank was saying before, who's got a problem with any of that? Who cares? Julia would say, who gives a shit? Yeah, nothing to do, nowhere to go, no one to be, nothing to see. And we have another comment here. And Hank says, there is no me. Can be a trick to avoid experience of what is happening.there is now me as a recognition and recognition that whatever is happening doesn't happen to me doesn't change what is happening although it takes this thing away maybe it does change what's happening in a way that it it nullifies the suffering, the psychological suffering, because happening is still there, whether there is a belief in Santa Claus or the me or whatever else the belief is.
Happening is regardless, the overlay of interpretation, what the happening means, is it happening personal that's just an extra layer of arising and like tanya was saying you know the dream goes on dream goes on the the weather changes Yes, Rohan, would you like to unmute?Hi, Kat. Yeah, just on that point, something that I tend to read a lot these days is about spiritual bypassing and how, you know, saying no to me, it's just this convenient way of avoiding working through, you know, but trauma is real and there's real stuff. But it occurs that that's just another subtle way that the. Identity continues that, you know, but this trauma is real.
You've got to work through it, you know, it's like, and it's like another mechanism that, you know, identity still wants to cling on to, you know, some sense of value, right? It takes value in the trauma that, yes, I've experienced trauma. It has to be worked through and I need to work through that. And, you know, by saying there's no me, yes, just parroting the words no me is obviously just, you know, it's, I don't even know if I'd use the word spiritual bypass. I would just say it's not, that joy won't be experienced. The freedom of it won't be experienced if it's just words and it hasn't been recognized.
But you said before recognition. In that recognition, Bob told me that many times that he said everything is dropped. It's not this, there's nothing to work through. It's not like you're, but yes, all this trauma is real and you have to keep working through it. And then it's not. If really there is nobody, then whose trauma is it? And what is it? If you're labeling trauma as an arising energy,Yeah, that's all I wanted to say. Thanks. Yeah, that's beautiful. And Hank added to it exactly. And this is important distinction because, yes, many people uses that concept of spiritual bypass that, oh, okay, I say no me and I don't have to do anything.
Well, doing happens. Breathing happens. Trauma therapy happens and it's still not me doing it. It's still not me leading the sun, beating my heart, going for the therapy. In some cases, therapy doesn't happen. And that's okay too from life's perspective. It is not mutually exclusive that I have to believe in me to work on my trauma. No, there is no me, whether I believe it or whether there is a belief in me or there is no belief in me. The fact is. If you look and try to find it and it isn't there, well, that's it. Self-evident. And now working on a trauma may still happen or not.
And Gilbert adds here, Bob quote, when you see something is false, you cannot believe it in it ever again. Believe that there is no me is not knowing that there is no me. Yeah, and I think Rohan, you expressed it really, really perfectly, you know, mounting the word, there is no me, so fuck off. There is no me, so.Don't tell me what to do. There is no me, so I'm not going to go to whatever, to therapy or to jail or wherever. It's what a joke. Believing there is no me. Who believes that? Have a look. Who believes that there is no me? Who has to even say it?
And we have Tanya and Cornelius. Tanya, I think you were on mute first. Yeah. Thank you, Kat. How about, you know, often I would begin by saying, start from the position that you are that. Start from the position ofbeing that eternal perfection. Nothing to fix, nothing to change, unaltered, unmodified, unchanged. Start from that position, not from the position of being less than, missing something, being wounded, having a hole in your heart. You know, speaking metaphorically, start from the position that you are at.And as far as judging one another for you've got it, you haven't got it, you're faking it, you're blah, well, so be it.
And how about fake it till you make it? Right? Sometimes, you know, trying to model perfection is how it occurs. What's wrong with that? Right? So, as we say, however it appears, but now above all else that you are that.and there's nothing more to it. And I was just thinking more about Cornelius's dad and how he said, yeah, the body has changed and he's gone from this robust soldier of a man to this small little package. But to that which is, nothing's ever happened. Nothing's ever changed. If Cornelius's dad were to so-called look down the tunnel of time, so-called of his life, there would be no change.
The being, the presence, that we can't describe. It's exactly as it's always been, always here.And then just like an appliance or, you know, a robot made of plastic, the whatever is driving the animation will stop driving the animation and then it'll be... Just a piece of plastic or, you know, bag of meat or whatever. It never was. Yeah, that's it. Over to you, Cornelius, I think. Yes, beautiful. Yeah, Cornelius, would you like to come in?Yeah, I like that. To say there's no me is just a way to avoid stuff. There's so much there. Again, it's like once you drop it, there's no me. Anything, any buts after that is, again, you're trying to sort of like divide the thing that doesn't exist.
You're trying to find a secret way out of the pot. The space in the pot is trying to find a secret way out of the pot where it has to go down, know the secret words, sing the special chants to get out of the pot, to be the space outside the pot, and then realize that, all right, there was never any pot. That my dad that I love is turning into a skeleton visually. The person here still feels it and still feels grief and still feels shock at the change in his appearance and still feels like, oh, like sad about dad. It's all kind of normal.
And that,the realization that blah, blah, blah, non-duality, doesn't make that any less or any better. But the realization puts it as an arising in consciousness rather than the end of something or anything with any... So there's no me avoiding that because there was no choice anyway. The sun came up and there's Bob on YouTube going, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Eventually after all the clouds cleared away, then there's, it's like, well, yeah, that dad going wherever he's going is kind of like affects this body-mind interface in the same way that you stand on the cat's tail and it squeals and maybe even scratch it, but it won't hold it against you.
Yeah, I think spiritual bypass is great if you can find one.And again, there is not even a you to find the spiritual bypass or to use the spiritual bypass or to sin with the spiritual bypass. So the concept is slightly ridiculous, but I'm going to just read a couple of last quotes and we're going to wrap it up. Jenny says, yes, who has ever to say there is no me? Needing to say there is no me is hilarious. Only a me needs to say it is not. And like sky, yes, like sky writing, says Yvonne. And Gilbert says, Bob. And it's quote from Bob, start from the fact that you are that.
Then see what comes up that tries to take you away from that. And you'll see that's just a mad idea. Nothing else. Whether that idea is labeled, I'm not going to do anything or I will do or I will bypass. Hello. If you didn't exist, if there was no existence, that idea wouldn't even take place. So thank you, everyone. And we're going to be here in a couple of days. Thank you for being on the bus. Thanks, Kat. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you.