This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Welcome everyone, we are about to start now. And yes, sorry for all the technical issues, that's just what's happening. And we have, right now we have four people with us on Zoom, there might be some more joining. So we have, and also we are streaming to Facebook Live. So there will be people who hopefully will comment and participate through the chat box. But I will mainly rely on you guys to keep the conversation going because it is always a privilege. And I'm going to just invite the people on Zoom to actually see you. And we have Charlie. And we have Daga, Cliff, Tony, Cheryl, Tony again, and Tony again.
And yes, and we have, and Dean and... Kat and Tanya, and hopefully, yes, the camera will adjust. Good. Yeah. All right. Okay. So let's get into it. Sorry for the delay again. It is about the basics of non-duality. What we do is, and you're all familiar with Bob's style, he usually gives 20 minutes, half an hour, an hour, whatever he was moved to do of the introduction.People often work it in a way of putting people through deep meditation, silence, and then you get the experience, the sample of being, but then you don't really, you don't really, you're not in a position of asking questions or actually contributing to the conversation.
So this was the style that Bob... Just step down from because you want to resolve the issues the questions you want to see what stands in a way of that natural state which you can emerge by completely silencing the mind through techniques or practices but again when it kicks in the questions, topics are not resolved. So talking about the natural state, which is underneath the stream of the mind, like all the stream of commentary, which is basically a piece of algorithm, piece of software that is narrating and commenting on everything that is happening. Oh, I want to go to the toilet. Oh, I'm hungry. Well, the body knows that it wants to go to the toilet or that it is hungry without needing to have that narrative being overlaid on top.
But the narrative is programmed in the body-mind machine. It is since the time the little child learned language and it started labeling everything around and make sense and make meaning and relate to the moment the label is stuck here, relate everything to me. You know, I am hungry or I like this, I don't like that.everything suddenly, the whole world becomes a relative world, relative in the relation to me. And what does that mean? The assumption is that this body with this biocomputer that runs it, this is who I am. And this assumption is never questioned. And a little child, as it gets along with life, and the language model gets more and more advanced, like we can see today in the world of AI, as the language model gets more advanced, the child is covering up with a thicker and thicker layer, overlay of the interpretation.
And now the world as it is may be completely overlooked because it is covered up with the cloud of the world of meaning, the world of the relativity. What does it mean to me? How does it stand in relation to me? Everything, I come into relationship, I have relationship to my health, I have relationship to finances, I have relationships to the politics, to the weather, everything becomes relative. And this is the problem. Now the world of the simple creatures, like we have a couple of cats, they may show up. That don't have the large language model program installed in their beautiful little brains. They are just living spontaneously in the present.moment because the large language model implies there was a past and there is a future so the cats they can't live in the past they can't imagine that overlay dream the daydream of overlay of that context what happened yesterday what happened a year ago i have a childhood trauma or this has happened this i don't like that's unavailable so what is available in the in the direct experience of an animal is seeing hearing tasting touching smelling is that very very basic beautiful natural livingness the radiance of existence the cat will feel every the fiber hair that will move will inform it about the movement of the air the temperature everything is in the awareness we don't pay attention to the temperature unless it's cold or hot and the narrative will tell us oh come on something's wrong even if the narrative doesn't because little child can experience hot and cold as well and it will cry or whatever the life of the pre-language life is different is somehow simpler more natural it is just living from that sensory experiencing of seeing hearing tasting touching smelling and before that even seeing gets labeled or the hearing gets labeled the child associates the sound of the mothervery very quickly with the image of the mother and it learns through associations through imitation it learns emotional structures interpretation it just codes that biocomputer to function most optimally in that very very complex dream that we call life so It is a brilliant machinery, the whole sort of mind structure.
It's a great navigational aid which assists survival. We can not very proudly say that we have driven like 90 whatever 7% of species to extinction, but we didn't drive ourselves just yet. So that supremacy of the large language model and the brain and the structure for humans, it proved successful in the survival game. So that body-mind machine loves to be, it is existing, and without the existence of that vehicle, the life essence cannot experience and express itself in this particular way with this particular level of complexity. Life or energy experiencing and expressing itself as a cat does not have the storytelling capacity, does not have contextualization capacity.
It can't think of future, can't think of past.can't blame, can't shame themselves, can't have self-esteem low or high or self-worth low or high. It just lives naturally in the moment. And this is an invitation which non-duality presents. Recognize that that capacity prior to language exists right now in everyone. It is clouded a little bit, veiled through that narrative, through that commentary going on, but it is not really truly obscured. Because without that presence, without that beingness, the consciousness, the aliveness, that veil wouldn't matter. It couldn't even exist. The dead body, the corpse, it doesn't veil anything. It doesn't think, it doesn't imagine, daydream interpretations and meanings.
There is no experiencing there. So from the perspective of the life as the energy, because how the non-duality says everything is one and not even one. It is confusing and it is meant to be confusing because it is not to be grasped with the logical thinking. The language is dualistic. It is always black and white, up and down, back and forth, left and right, and everything in between that range. But it is always between the range of the pairs of opposites. And what we are pointingpointing true is beyond language, pointing to is beyond language, beyond the pairs of opposites. So it is beyond the grasp of the duality.
You can't, you can stick a label on it and deny that label straight away. You can call it God, you can call it intelligence energy, but put the disclaimer, no, this is not about God or intelligence energy. This is not about that word or that label. It is not even about it. This is not it. It is closer than your breath. It is the pure singularity. It is the certainty of your own existence right here, right now. You know that you are not unconscious. There is an awareness of being present, of being conscious, of being alive. Of course, it is not an object. Awareness is not something that you point out as something that is arising.
No, but the fact that the capacity to know of what is arising is there. The capacity to see the stuff coming up is there. That capacity in itself is the consciousness. And you can't say that it exists because you can't objectify it. But you can't deny it because when things are arising, there is an awareness of things arising. So this is that basic screen or that basic consciousness prior to interpreting itself as me, a person, a label, a person who is female, a person who is middle-aged, a person who is...whatever the labels you want to stick on yourself, the profession, the age, the marital status or whatever.
So that pure essence of existence, that pure capacity of witnessing whatever is arising in that dream is prior to that mask of identity. The identity, I am this, that or the other comes next. So we are pointing to that pure potentiality or the pure witnessing capacity that is always present. It is not to be achieved through practices. It is not to be found through rigorous seeking. It is not to be obtained or purchased. It is not to be gained in the future. It is always here. It's been here. When a little child opens its eyes, it's obvious there is a sentience. We can distinguish dead from alive.
It is there all the time. Even if I have the most dense story about poor, miserable me suffering immensely all my life and looking for the freedom from that cage of concepts which I encapsulate myself, if not for that life essence fueling and expressing to that thick story. There would be no story, there would be no identity. So it is prior to the story, prior to the identity. It can't be achieved because it's already here.It can't be, it can be recognized because it usually is clouded by the story because again, the nature of this navigational aid called mind is to assist survival. It does not have any other function.
Of course, assisting survival to the point of, oh yeah, that's a good idea, I can start that. Or not, sorry. Yeah, so the... That will be better quality than Facebook. So the whole body-mind machine is like a mask which the life essence of God puts on itself. Bob beautifully puts it in the one-liner. There is one essence. Essence, you can't say even there is something. Essence isn't something tangible. It's one essence or one potential experiencing and expressing itself as everything. So is the stillness a field? Like, you know, you can compare it to any energy, electricity. There is a field or electromagnetic wave just suffusing the whole space.
It isn't there. It potentially is, but it isn't really until you measure it or until you put the device that will transmit it. So that field of the potentiality for consciousness is there, but the consciousness is there.isn't until you stick in the transmitter or receiver, the body. And now it is, oh, wow, colors, shapes, wow, feelings, thoughts, amazing. And the layers of a dream. I can dream about my mom. She's not here. She's on the other side of the world. Oh, it comes with all the colors. It comes with memories, with incredibly, incredibly rich entertainment system. Just because in that field of infinite possibilities, this brilliantly tuned in transmitter receiver has been installed and now it can look through the lenses of its conditioning.
Because there will be different things, different preferences that I had, different that Bob had, Tanya or any one of you. We would resonate or like different music, different foods. So this is the lens of conditioning for that particular machine. Program your computer in a different way for different purposes. But the main purpose is to survive and thrive. So it is generally biased to run away from pain and generally biased to follow the pleasure. So now when the mind, so-called mind or that software completely hijacks the machine, it will promise it a pleasure in the beautiful idea of enlightenment. So now,the chase will start it can promise you a pleasure in five million dollars in your bank and then the chase will start and you will sell your mother your father for that money or it can promise the pleasure in the great enlightenment and you will abandon your children and go to the ashram because that appealing idea stands in front of it and it's completely hijacks the system this is when the mind is using you instead of you the consciousness using it as a tool So the beautiful idea of the future, and this is very often what put people on the search, and I've been a seeker for the biggest part of my life until 40 years of age, and since childhood really, just because there was a promise of a respite from psychological suffering, from lack of self-worth, not even low self-esteem, complete lack of self-worth, and a sense of existential angst.
What's wrong with me? Everybody works their way out. They know where they are, what they're meant to do, and I have no idea. I'm so lost. Social awkwardness, anxiety, all that stuff. And there is a promise. If I find that great enlightenment, I could breathe deeply. I'll be holy. I'll be saint. I will never be hungry again. I'll never be anxious again. What a dream. But where?Where does it exist in the large language model? It all exists in the imagination. Imagination promise of the future release of future pleasure, because enlightenment is an ultimate pleasure. I was actually under the spell that it is a nirvana.
It's a state of constant ecstasy, which will, of course, shut the brain through serotonin syndrome within an hour or so. But that didn't even, that didn't really enter the dream. No, in the fantasy. No, it's just going to be, ah. And then you hear about all those great sages and saints and seers sleeping with their young students or abusing children or collecting a fleet of Rolls Royces or being fat like a bloody, eating chocolates from morning to night. What? What? Aren't they in such state of ecstasy that this thing doesn't even matter? Why would you ever want a chocolate? If your level of bliss is so much higher than the physical pleasure, something doesn't add up.
Something's wrong with that picture. Well, of course, it's just a picture. Is just an imagination. And now suddenly that brilliant navigational aid tool used for the right purpose of investigation, a little bitof a sobriety down to earth and checking it out, all those claims, verifying. And Bob has again a few beautiful ways of pointing out how the investigation is to be done. The basic shortcut straight away cutting off the mind and verifying the presence, the existence is the title of a book. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me see. Oh, yeah, this is a thought.
What's wrong with right now without the thought? Yeah, but this is also a thought. Okay. Shit. Nothing. Okay. That's only the first step. Nothing. Nothing is wrong if you don't think. Every problem you could ever conceive of is a thought. Even if you are nailed to the cross. Which may be extremely uncomfortable, unless you have a thought that you shouldn't be there, well, that's just what is. Without the thought, that's just what is. But what happens? The thought is paused. There is no problem, obviously. But you didn't disappear. You're still existing. There is still presence of consciousness. There is still aliveness. There is still beingness there.
There is still that infinite field, the capacity to witness whatever is arising is still present.the misidentification that I am my thinking, I am my mind, I am the belief that, oh, I am a person, I'm the problem, this is naturally broken. I exist prior to anything the mind have to say. And what else the mind have to say? This is wrong, that is wrong, this is wrong. It also tells me what I am. I am the person, I am the body. Without that thought, when I pause the thought, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Who am I right now if I don't think about it?
Who am I? Let me see. What can I say about? I exist, that we've already established, but what am I without the thought?Am I still that woman, middle-aged, whatever? That's all thoughts. Am I still in this location or in this relationship with the 10,000 things around? That's all thoughts. This is all imagination. So who am I? I don't know. I don't know. How could I possibly know? Anything that I would have to say will be an objectification in the language or piece of imagination. I cannot know that. How could I possibly know what I am? I can only imagine what I am. But can I not know that I am?
And this is great mantra. Can I not know that I am? Try and not know that you are. See how successful you're going to be. Or try to not be. Maybe. Just pause the being for a moment. Stop the capacity to witness whatever is arising, the breath. You can't do that. So that you are is certain. And that's the only thing that is certain. Everything else is in the realm of imagination, of thought. The pure sense of existence or the capacity to be aware of what's arising, that's the only thing that is real. And definition of reality is that which never changes. See throughout your whole experience, even though the time is also just a mental construct that isarising right now but you always there is always that capacity to be here whether you are on the other side of the world you experience oh yes i'm here whether you are in different locations or whether you're in the mind whether you are in the cloud of dense story There is still a presence here.
That is something that never changes. It's nothing you can say that I'm more right now than I'm yesterday. No, you can have more energy, you can have more vitality, or you can be sluggish and tired. This is an experience. But the awareness of the experience is prior to it. The capacity to witness the experience arising is completely prior to senses. It doesn't have any qualities whatsoever. That's why you can't objectify it. You can't even say that it exists. Because it doesn't, but you can't deny it. Because you can't stop being. So the existence is always there. Even though you can't grasp it, you can't say it is a thing.
It's prior to things. But without that existence, there's not even a question whether it can or it cannot be objectified. There's not even a question of what non-duality is or who am I. Nothing. There's no, it's nothing. It's prior to that witnessing presence, that capacity.to see what's arising. can't even be imagined. You can't even imagine non-existence. So the existence and in the ancient definitions that Bob would sometimes rely on, not he wouldn't rely on definitions, he would just do it to show that across the ages and systems and schools and religions, there is the common base. And in Dzogchen teachings, which is Buddhism, it would be called self-shining, ever fresh presence awareness.
It means that awareness of existence, the awareness of presence is self-shining, is always here, is always fresh. And it doesn't have any capacities. And it says just this and nothing else. Nothing else is real. Everything else is maya, is illusion. But there is another like Hindu religion. And the base of Advaita would say there is five factors, Sat-Cit-Ananda defining reality, Nama-Rupa defining illusion, unreality or maya. Sat-Cit-Ananda means being, consciousness, love or contentment. Everyone is being, everyone is conscious of being and probably as it is self-evident preferring to be alive than dead because you are alive and not dead and it's not that big of a deal to end that very very fragile machine so sat chit ananda is already here beingawareness of being and preference for being.
They're already self-evident here. Nama Rupa, name and form. What am I? What are you? What everything else is? That is the part of the project. director that is large language model labeling everything organizing putting the hierarchy order of values and relation in between and meaning in between and all that beautiful beautiful human drama it belongs to the dream it belongs to maya to unreality to that which is constantly changing And reality is that which doesn't. Bob would also point out to the roots of Christianity, where he would say God is omnipresence, which is uninterrupted, constant, total presence. So nothing's excluded. Omni, it means it's total.
It means the sense of presence that you are experiencing is not in separation of the omnipresence. It can't be. It defies the definition. Omnipotence. Which is total power, any power, the power to speak, to see, to hear, the power to experience, any power, power to move the planets around the sun, power to change the weather, the weather inside the body, which is mood, all of that is not separate or away from that omnipotence. And omniscience, of course, the capacity to know, the cognizing capacity. Another label Bob used to like also was cognizing emptiness. Because there is no...Nothing you can actually say about that basic presence.
Emptiness is a fairly good word, but it's not completely exhausting. It is missing out on that cognitive capacity. It's a conscious emptiness, sentient emptiness, cognizing emptiness. But those are all labels. And the problem with the labels is that it is always spoken in the third person. This is it. While what we're pointing out is not it. It's that I am. It's the sense of existence that is present right here, closer than the breath, closer than your face. So this is really the basics and I think that's enough. Yeah. So now we invite everyone to participate and everyone knows that they exist and everyone resonates with some of the pointers.
Sharing what works is always not only reinforcing that clarity but it's also offering that beautiful transmission of the of that one essence speaking through that body mind vehicle And I often experience on Bob's meetings, especially when I was a seeker, that I would hear it more clearly.from people who were still seeking but understood one or two things because they were closer to my wavelength than Bob with 40 or 50 years of clarity. So it is always even good to repeat what resonated. I would often ask on the meetings people, okay, what part of Bob's spiel was the highlighted? Just bring it up. Say it in your own words.
But we also welcome any questions, any arguments. Love it. It's what you were saying about resonating. I mean, it's true. You know, even in the workplace or with education, often experts are not the best teachers. Yes. Because in a way it's sort of on automatic. For an expert at their trade and somebody who's sort of new to it can break it down better and into learnable chunks or understandable chunks. But, you know, the thing is, it's, you know, satyatananda. So existence, consciousness, bliss in some ways, or, you know, awareness, consciousness, loving to be, they're not separate things. They're not three separate things. It's all, it's three words that make a, you know,An attempt to try and label that which can't be labelled.
It's just to try and get to point you back to what you already know. Yeah. There is not one person, no one in this room thinks they're a person who doesn't know that they are. It's that simple. It's very subtle and some say it's difficult to rest in that, but you can't not rest in that. An illusion that you aren't that. Yeah. And that's really the only seeming difference between enlightened and I'm enlightened. That's the least. Yeah.Yes, I like that. Thanks for the spiel, Kat. Yeah, I like, I just, that's my go-to is what's wrong with right now without a thought. And really, if you just...
Really pause and drop the thoughts that completely die down and realize that you are that being that's without a thought and you can listen and hear the sounds, experience the sights around you and realise that is that awareness itself, that is just the beingness. And instead of thinking that, like, the cars and the trams are out there and I'm hearing them or I'm experiencing them, it just is, it really is the awareness. In a whole sort of, I could say, 3D world, but that whole thing is the livingness and the intelligence. And we think we're the intelligent thing, that we know it and we are experiencing it and doing stuff, but it is just happening.
You know, like the trees are growing, the birds are doing their thing.Earthworms are going through the soil. That's the intelligence also. And they probably all think they're very intelligent doing it or whatever, if they can think. But it is just that functioning always in the here and now. But then the mind will come in, you know, I'll be... Preparing something or getting something ready and then it's all just happening and I'm thinking I'll put this with that and then I think I should be eating more of this or that and going out to dinner too much maybe I should and suddenly the mind goes into this idea of self and that somehow I can drive the events and make them happen my way.
It's like a little thing arises in the thinking that imagines itself to have the power to direct it and make it go a certain way. But it can't, you know. Try your best to try and make things happen the way you want them to happen and you know from experience that it doesn't turn out the way you think it's going to turn out. And it's like knowing that intelligence is driving it all is another thing. The best things happen in life, you didn't plan them, you know, they just come. And the worst things that happen in your life, you know, certainly don't plan them, and they just come.
And the way through it.turns out in a mysterious way, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. And then you can't really say that either unless you think about it, whether it's good or bad, and compare it to previous experience. So it is all... Me that in the form of the beingness and the awareness not the me personally it's like this this this is me it's like the book I am that you know this is me but it's not mine as soon as I think mine that relates to something that thinks it can drive and control it and own it and make it happen.
So it's simple unless you're thinking about it, but that's the mind tries to work it out and put it in a box and put it in your back pocket and think, I'll have another look at this at lunchtime, but it doesn't work that way. Yeah. Because the mind can't control, can't comprehend the wholeness of it, you know, the mind can't. Understand it.That's so important. It's built in there. Yeah. I don't have anything to say. Very good. You know, like sometimes everything seen like just collapses into absolute simplicity. So even Satya Dananda that we're talking about, that we mentioned, like even that can become... Is a concept everything is a concept means on some level another being knowing that you are I can't even say I know that I am in one way all I can say is that is It's this this this is it.
There's just this nothing else other than this and what's how can you describe this? Oh, there's a there's a me being or there's a me there's a this is that is but this is inclusive of everything It's totally inclusive. So includes the worms under the ground include includes the universe the stars the planets galaxies, includes the neural networks in the brain of a body, and all of it is connected. So perhaps this is a machine.This is just a model or just a description of things. I'm not saying this is how it is. I have no idea how anything is. No one has any idea of how anything actually, of what reality is.
But they can all, you know, point back to the basics of fundamental existence of life, of livingness itself. And the livingness is... Absolutely immediate like it's it's always now they cannot get out of any now because it's always immediately now it can't be anything other than now and the thisness or the aliveness is always now and in that now there may seem to be like a machinery of a body and It seems like the whole universe is conspired to fire neurons and chemistry and networks to make it move the hand here, to make that next word sound, to formulate and even to make a thought appear or to be registered.
So there's no one actually doing it. And there is no, like the time is a linear thing that's just appearing due to some processes in the brain which are influenced by the whole of creation. So where the hell can anyone find, can anyone find anything of like to grab onto or to say this ismy reference point, this is where I'm functioning from, or this is where I'm behaving or acting or thinking or being, look, you don't actually know. You can't. It's unfathomable. And it just, so you can see that any movement to try and resolve this situation of who am I or what this is or what life is or even non-duality, is all conceptual and it has to on some level like, well, I guess it doesn't have to, it just does what it does, it's mysterious.
But it seems like here this machine just seems to crumble, not crumble in any way, like dysfunction, it crumbles in in the search, like the search to try and find and to try and like the energy that fires the neurons to make it look and seek and find answers. And then all there is is functioning and all there is is this. And all there is is this infinite array. In the infinite tapestry of behaviours, of thoughts, of feelings, of emotions, of seemingly interactions, of seemingly distance, space, dimensionality, time, like all of these are like appearances in that which is not even an appearance in a sense.
I mean, you could say that it appears, but how it appears and what appears is unknowable. The appearanceis the existence, is the livingness, is the life itself, is the essence. It's pretty cool, really. I mean, what could possibly, what possible problem or how could there be a problem, really? How can a problem even exist if it's absolute, it's... It's a circus of little thoughts saying, appearing. Who are they appearing for? What are they appearing on? They're just appearing to say, oh, I am separate, or I am this, or I am that, or there is time, or tomorrow I'll be better, or I'm bad because of yesterday, or whatever it is, is...This redundant system of, yeah, I think, but yet functioning still happens quite naturally.
Like you can, you know, it doesn't mean that you can't do mathematics anymore or you can't go to a bank teller or you can't walk into a shop and just there's no right or wrong. There's no way of functioning better or now I'm with the flow, man. No, it's just the functioning is happening and the appearance is appearing in that infinite array, that kaleidoscope of all the different things, the 10,000 things, the 10 billion things, the 10 trillion infinite things, which are really nothing. Because if all there is is immediately now and present, What can you what what's what's solid what actual is is the substance this substance?
It's seemingly real and and if you could call it real you could call it unreal you could call it anything you want But what is it? Well, maybe if you if you? Examine it like I mean everything I'm discussing everything that has been discussed is really descriptions of This is breaking it down, but breaking it up in a sense, because you could call it all energy. So every thought, every feeling, every emotion, everything.This chair, this table, this hand, this movement, it's all energy appearing to vibrate in different ways, different frequencies, different levels of vibration, which create the illusion of solidity, create the illusion of space, create the illusion of time, create the illusion of thoughts, create everything to appear to be real.
And, you know, like you just close your eyes or you go into deep sleep at night, boom, it's all gone. It's all finished. Like there was nothing, there's nothing real. There's nothing there. It's so, in a sense, like the emptiness is this space, emptiness vibrating, and the emptiness is the intelligence energy vibrating to appear as... The 10,000 things. And the appearance of a character in that is one of the 10,000 things. It's not better or worse or higher or lower or superior. So any thought that can tell you anything is, there's no belief, there's no thought that has any substance or any truth. So what happens now?
It's party time. It's celebration. It's the enjoyment of life and all of it, all of what that appears to be, all of how that presents.with its tragedies, with its dramas, with its beauty and magic and creativity and all these different things. And then, like every night, completely ends off. Yeah, it's all off. I like what you're saying. It's just energy. It's energy and then awareness gives it form. That's when... The awareness falls on that energy in some way that seems to give it structure and form and the mind gives it meaning from memory and experience, interpreting it a certain way and putting a certain label on it.
But it really is just energy appearing in a form interpreted by the mind and labelled good or bad or, you know, think it's me doing it. But there's someone there observing it or even thinking it is just another thought anyway, you know, it is just... That thinking energy appearing again, interpreting and labelling it and trying to own it or direct it or whatever. It is just that. And, yeah, it's just to, as you say, it's party time in a way.All you can say is you're living it or you're being lived. You're not even living it. You're being lived. Taken on this amazing, amazing trip that you could call experience.
And every interpretation and everything that we say is still the energy itself. It's the same energy. It's not the same. Well, it's one energy, you could say, appearing as an endless array of that energy in its expression. But that energy is the intelligence energy. So it's amazing that even like the thought that I am this seeing energies is the same energy. It's all the same. You know, it's I remember. I remember a friend, he got sick and then he had this experience during the night where these, it felt like these sort of, he had this experience where he was healed and it felt like these entities came into his body and healed him and he goes, wow, like I was healed and this and that.
And then we looked at it and we said, but. The same energy was the one that created the idea of the sickness. It was the same energy that created this so-called healing. And it's the same energy that's actually believing to interpret that this is actually what happened. It's the same energy. It's the same show. Like, it's one show.appearing as an infinite array of colours and patterns and descriptions and labels and God knows what. Same guy who got you sick in the first place, cured you. It is the same light behind, you know, when you watch the movie casted on the screen, it's the same light going through that film that makes the villain and the hero.
And we have a couple of comments from our online community. And you guys also, who are with us on Zoom, you are most welcome to. Contribute as well and we have here good morning messages and we have love sent from Jenny and Sandy says love listening to you cut in your clarity what's wrong with right now is also my favorite especially when I forget remember Bob saying oh my god it's just that's some funny thing here the phone Hmm. Okay. Remember Bob saying he understood completely when he was with Nisargadatta. Then afterwards, he'd get caught up in the mind again. Then he would have the recognition that it was just more of the same old crap.
That works for me too. Yeah, it's a habit. It's a persistent habit. The computer has been conditioned to...constantly narrate but when the spell is broken and one of Bob's another prominent pointer was watch the machine watch it's working see the magic trick once you see how it functions how it always labels how it always relates and then the it becomes entertaining It isn't personal anymore. Even when the mind says, oh, this is happening to me. This is important. This is serious. What am I going to do about that? Yes, yes, I understand all that crap. But you know what? My child is being bullied. This is important.
Now, when you see how in the presence of thought, everything, the whole system winds up and... That you see the whole dynamic as another way the machine is responding to its conditioning then even though it will perpetuate it's not that you suddenly i don't care about the kid let him be beaten up whatever no there is no possibility like that the machine will do whatever is much the machine is designed to do But there is a little bit of the free attention there in the background saying, wow, what a ride. Now this body is angry and it's shaking, it's shaking, it's shaking. And there is still the awareness of the shaking.
So now...The shaking of the body, the narrative talking about me, serious, is not personal anymore and is not serious anymore. It still goes on. Because that's how the machine is designed, just like the airplane will fly and the boat will sail. This machine will keep narrating and doing whatever has been designed and relating as well. But now the recognition that I am prior to all that biocomputer doing its thing, witnessing its working and seeing it as completely mechanical, There is nothing conscious about any activity performed by the biocomputer, whether it is reading a book or whether it is writing a script or whether it is fighting with someone or whether it is making love, it makes no difference.
It is all part of the way the machine functions. The conscious element is the presence, is the screen witnessing, the cognizing emptiness, witnessing the autopilot function of being kind or being unkind, of being angry or being polite, whatever it is conditioned. have also the societal rule that yes kindness is rewarded and unkindness is punishable because this is good and this is bad this whole ethical moral system is part of the conditioning of the machine and this is not to say that there is anything wrong with that it's quite wonderful all of it And it is not to say that there should be no attraction towards the goodness.
Well, appropriately conditioned machine absolutely should be attracted to the goodness because in the long run it pays off in a survival. It gives you the allies and the friends and all of that. But demystifying the whole working of the machine and making it all equally impersonal. I'm the presence, the only conscious element witnessing, cognizing emptiness. Now, the machine is kind. What does it have to do with me? I'm not the doer. The machine is unkind. I'm not going to feel guilty about that. This is also a program. Suddenly the spell is broken and then initially it starts from oh yeah okay this is all just happening this is spiritual bypass i'm not the doer not responsible now there's no one there is much much further than just denying any responsibility the truth is if the machine is conditioned to show up onthe appointment, to take responsibility for kids, and it's always been doing it, there is no way it will stop.
Just like the animals, they look after their young, they show up to their commitments, they find the food, they show up for everything that the body is conditioned to do. The presence or absence of narrative does not change that deep conditioning. Realizing that I'm not the doer is a spiritual bypass or shortcut, maybe one could say, but it isn't the truth. What it means I am not the doer, so who am I? Oh yeah, I don't know, I'll find out, but I'm not the doer, so if I slap you in the face, it's not my fault. Oh, I'm not responsible for it. No, it's simpler than that.
It's not that there is someone there hidden somewhere who is not the doer, not guilty, not responsible. Simpler than that, there's no one there. There's no one there to be or not to be the doer. There's no one there to have or not to have free will. There is no one there to make mistake, get things wrong, get things right. No one there. It's just that same energy that is leading the lamp, that is powering the computer, that is powering this device and making it see, hear, taste, touch, smell, speak, speak in particular way, focus on particular topics, prefer particular hobbies or other things. Nothing conscious about it.
The presence, the witnessing, that light presence justWow, amazing. Not even amazing, it's completely neutral. But initially, when it disentangles itself from that prison of the conceptual cage of the image of the identity, then of course there is a great sense of relief and the natural joy shines forth. So there is a light level of appreciation, elation for that sense of freedom. I can see you, Jane. You're okay. No one there. No one here. No one anywhere. Absolutely. Absolutely. Go for it, Jane. Yeah, go for it, Jane. So, so... So you're talking about conditioning. Well, it would seem to me that people in Australia have a different cultural context than people in Poland.
And people, you know, because there's a context. So the conditioning is different. Yeah. So.So what we say is, you know, the all-pervading oneness doesn't change. We come in, you know, people or bodies come in and come out, but it's all the same. But conditioning is different in different places. And things, so if we've got a war in the Middle East, and I'm probably speaking for many other people who would have this same issue at the moment, that environment... Shapes the conditioning. Totally. Nespah, doesn't it? 100%. Yeah, it changes the conditioning. So with the change conditioning,Hmm. Sorry, I can't go any further. I was... No, that's perfect.
You know, you can see that this life essence is expressing itself through all the 10,000 things, weathers, countries, planets, blood cells, thoughts, feelings, humans, every human, every thought, every thing, every planet is unique, different. It's like two fingerings or ice or snowflakes. Everything is absolutely unique. Every expression is unique. I understand that. But what you would therefore get, wouldn't you? It's not all the same. In the final analysis, the all-pervading oneness is the same. But what you would have because of the particular context in a country or a region or whatever, you'd have a clustering of... A particular kind of being or personalities, wouldn't you say?
And moment to moment, you will have different personality, different behavior. Moment to moment, you will play different role. You will be a mother in one moment, then you will be wife, then you will be an angry bitch, then you will be an angel, then you will be the devil, there will be, you know. Okay, all right. Yeah, now I think I've picked it back up again. So we're not the doers, right? We're not the doers. We're not even here.We're not even here. We're not the duo. We're not even here in the... There's no me. There's no me. But there is a particular manifestation of the all-pervading oneness in different places because of the happenings there.
Yes, it expresses itself, you know, like when you look at the electricity, it is a light expressing through the lamp. It is the heat expressing through the toaster. It is a spin expressing through the washing machine. Or it is a vacuum, you know, is that that energy has infinite potential to express in the infinite amount of ways. Yes, and the context of that expression will shape Yes, because there is no separation. Yeah, great point. There is no separation. So because environment and the body are one, look like I am breathing the air from the environment. If there was no people in the room, I wouldn't speak what I'm speaking right now.
If there was no food, everything is one appearing in different forms and they interconnected. Can you draw a line or give me a border around environment? No, no, I'm not.Where does it end? I'm not saying border. Where does it end? I'm not saying border. This is the question. All I'm saying. Where is the end? No. Where does it stop? No, I'm not saying that. Oh, okay. But you could say that, you know. Everything is environment. Yes. Good point. Everything. Good point. Everything is in. Everything is connected. But I think Bob has said that in the flow, in the river, there are whirlpools. So different concentrations of energy within the river?
Patterns. Patterns. Patterns. Patterning. Patterning. Patterning. Patterning, not patterns. I accept that. Okay. And comprehend that even Jane, as Jane's body, is not Jane of Jane's body that existed, you know, a tenth of a millisecond ago. Accept that. Entirely accept that. And that what the patterning is not separate from the so-called environment. No. There's no really, there's really no inside and no outside. I agree. We're separate from. Okay, but the patterning. Is different everywhere, everywhere. Different and the same at the same time. Different at the same.But the quality, just because the patterning of Tanya and the patterning of Kat is different, shaped by a multitude of factors.
So what I'm saying, Middle East war is going to affect the patterning of people who are stuck in Dubai right now. Of course. And it doesn't change the fact, Jane, that there's no people. No. So this is why Jane needs to do the investigation. She needs to find the bloody investigation. Take a look. Take a look. Find Jane. Go looking for Jane. Yes. No, she's not there. Yeah. And, yeah. I accept that. And then you accept there's no Dean and there's no Kat and there's no Tanya and there's never a Bob. That's name and form. Okay, but it's still the appearance they are. Yeah, they're labelled.
Remember that reality... Is prior to concepts, prior to words, prior to so-called mind. And cross.prior to Middle East problems. Absolutely. It's all contained within consciousness. Well, it's not contained because there's no boundary. Well, it's contained in that it's not separate from. Yeah, okay. All right. I'll get a headache. Yeah. No, of course you'll get a headache because you'll never figure it out in the mind. Not a billion, trillion years. All right. I'll hold up now. It's a whole trap, if you like. Okay. All right. But you keep asking the question. It's beautiful, isn't it? Yes. Isn't it? It's marvellous. Oh, wow, to get caught up in this whirlpool of questions.
It's just, oh, there's so much. This is cool, you know. I might just say something on conditioning or no conditioning or whatever you want to call it. It's just that intelligence that's there. We are that intelligence, but it has those three aspects of Sat-Chit and Ananda, and Sat-Chit being knowing and loving to be. But the loving to be is it too. You know, that love that we are is expressing all the time, whether you say, well, you're conditioned to it or you're not conditioned to it. It is what flows.As far as we know, all life seeks pleasure and avoids pain. You know, that's part of it.
And, you know, when we were talking before, we said, well, let's party it. Like, well, in the knowing of this, let's enjoy it and, you know, get together and share that love. We don't say, well, we'll get together and kill each other and make life as unpleasant as possible. That spreading of the ananda is part of life too. It is us. It is us. So, you know, it seems like pleasure and pain come about in equal amounts. But wanting to be the love is in Asianess anyway. It's in the animals and it's in life in general. That's what I see. It's not an individual thing.
It's just life. Life as life appears. In the Sagarata, there's a chapter called Be Happy, Make Happy, you know, and that's part of it. Absolutely.Yeah. And he would also say, recognize love behind everything. Everything is love, you know, fear is love for survival. Anger is love for justice. There's a great little book called Love is Letting Go of Fear that the only thing that gets in the way of being knowing and loving to be is the mind creating. Scenarios and fear and driving the war in the Middle East. What is fear other than loving to be? Yes, that's right. It's just filtered through the mind, through the biocomputer which interprets it and puts a story.
Yeah, because everything there is, if it is all one, Bob would often say, you may as well call it love, but know how to see everything as love. Because the way the mind divides, it will say this is love and this isn't love. This is love and this is call for love. This is love and this is fear. But if you go back to the essence, which you can call it hard, Bob would say, you know, you can just think of a core or the essence. Every motivation of every action is love of being, full stop. Because you can't stop being and you can't stop the love either, you know.
It is your... Yes.Anyone? Anyone? Mike? Charlie? Oh, I got it. Yes. Thank you. Okay, well, this is the first time me speaking, so I don't, you know, I worry that I will struggle to express like everything, you know, that's in my head, but I really sort of aligned like with what you were saying Kat earlier about the journey the sort of the seeking journey and and I just wanted to share that it's I sometimes and again this is super conceptual right this is the brain mind naming it but sometimes I think about the my life like before this awareness of the of everything that we're discussing right of the the totality and the um the energy that just everything being nothing and everything at the same time and um it's paradoxical because i feel like that's all the dagger from before the awareness life was like simpler but also not it was more difficult and sort of um you know uh but at the same time it was easier and then i feel like since the awareness again it's sort of both easier in many ways and then sometimes more difficult because you get into thissort of questioning, the sort of, you know, seeking answers.
And it's almost like, it's just a paradoxical, beautiful thing of feeling calmer and better because you have the awareness of like, everything is nothing and everything is everything. And I really sort of, Yeah, like I really share everything that's been shared today, but at the same time, sometimes you think, oh my God, like, I just wish I almost didn't have this awareness, this sort of depth, because back before the awareness, you know, you were just sort of going on with all the external appearances, the external tasks, and it was so simple. You're just like, we're chasing the next new car or chasing the career, and you thought that's all.
Like, it was sort of simpler on that level, if that makes sense. But actually, of course, it wasn't because the time came where you realized this is all sort of bullshit and it's also like sort of shallow. So, yeah, it's fascinating to listen to this discussion. Yeah, and sort of see these patterns and see all those thoughts and have it, you know, yeah. Did you want to answer as well? No, it's just... You keep the mind. Yeah, I'm just going to say, I wonder, I mean, if you kind of remember how it was,to have that restlessness of i have to get it i don't know how to get it you know because the the peace of having the clarity that oh you know there's nothing needs to be any different than how it is this present moment as it is it's just pure perfection to just rest in it it's almost blissy but the moment mind comes into it and start comparing what happened when i was still seeking or what happened before i was even seeking you know there is a life before i was seeking where you know everything was so solid and so real the mountains were high and the rivers were deep like in a zen zen fables and it was so real and then the seeking started everything started being questioned the mountains weren't the mountains anymore and the rivers weren't the rivers anymore everything was confusing i don't know where i am shit you know this is really difficult and now the third spinning of the wheel where it actually realized that, ah, nothing ever happened.
And yet it still occurs right in front of me. I can just watch the show. The river still looks like a river. The mountains look like the mountains. Nothing is wrong until the mind comes up. And it says, oh, no, no, it was better then. Or is it better now? What is this shit? You know, what am I going to make of it? Then the whole restlessness comes with it. But when there is this restful just, yes, foris emptiness emptiness is form look at this incredible display and it's happened to no one but yet it is happening in the consciousness that i am but i not as i defined person who needs to run behind every thread and chase and find and grasp but i they're all embracing limitless timeless spaceless birthless definitionless because i don't even give a shit what what is the description of it i don't care there's no one there to care so this one is a place where it's incomparable because the mind doesn't even come in to compare but at the same time i totally hear you yes there is a place where you know like i know people who like one one step that way and what like one yes way and one that way and you're like yeah it is still a subtle seeking mode when they are glimpses that profound moments like i would go to india and have no self sort of experience of just cruising moving with the river of life for two weeks even a month and then i would come back to poland and after two weeks the self-center started rebuilding itself and oh shit you know no he shouldn't be looking at me like this on this one And then this whole page of concepts get tighter and tighter again.
And in no time, shit, I am this limited, poor, miserable little human again. How do I get out of myself? I can't because that...cartoon character which right now just established itself hallucinated itself into reality and is believed into reality and it feels like reality that is dumped it can't get out of itself it can't release the cage you have to recognize that what you are is prior to that construct and then It's like that beautiful, well, I keep saying, what's wrong with right now without a thought? And you're in that construct of me that's got all these troubles and bills to pay and phone calls to make and places to get to and what will they think about this or that.
Oh, hang on, what's wrong with right now without a thought? And suddenly all that seems to just drop away. That's my experience of it. It drops away and for a moment you see the truth that really that's all just the mind creating that. And then the next thing it's off again, you're back in and you're like, hang on a second, what's wrong with right now without a thought? And people say, what's the great spiritual thing you've learned? You say that, and they laugh, and they think, what do you mean? What's wrong with right now without a thought? That's nonsense, you know, because everyone lives in the thoughts, and we're all competing to find a better way of thinking that's going to solve the problem.
But it's not in the thinking. It's just in the being.mind that is absolutely no good because the mind can only operate with ideas and notions and its so-called circumstances, etc. And see too, you know, when the so-called thought comes up that compares how I was prior to awareness versus now, they're both past. Neither of them are right now, they're imagined. You're comparing two imaginary yous. It was better yesterday. Yeah, but the only real you is, you know, what is now, right now? So like you were describing earlier, it's also the conscious that can't be defined, right? Like me, there is no me. There is just this energy that's everything, right?
So then you just have to like keep... Bringing yourself back to that right um but it's so easy for the mind to just um yeah just come back with all these ideas and thoughts and it yeah it probably comes back as well to the fear that we discussed right that the the mind just wants to like protect you from whatever fears and that's why it kind of keeps seeking those thoughts and thinking the more i thinkthe more safe you will be. But yeah, I think you can ask yourself a good little trick is to say, oh, so when, you know, the two alternative me's come up for comparison, you can remind yourself, oh, so that is something that changed?
That changed? Wipe it out. Red lines through it. Not that. Not it. So what'll it be, my friend? Same shit Amanda or set shit Ananda? Same shit, different day. I have a friend who actually believed that his paradise to dream of and come back to was the childhood when he was so careless, when nothing was wrong, when he didn't have to pay the bills. And that memory, I just want to come back. There are also people you could ask, Sigmund Freud or his followers, everyone just want to come back to the womb of non-existence just before this is all imagination because there absolutely isn't anything wrong in this magical ever fresh present moment self shining unless there is a comparison there is a thought there is some objectification contextualization And it is a dream and it's a beautiful dream.
There is so much room for appreciation because that here, that presence here is always still. But sometimes that presence here, looking out, There is an incredible dream going on, like incredible fantasy and incredible planning about the future, incredible nightmare when you sleep at night. The whole display is ever fresh, is always changing. Maya is always dancing and swirling that colorful dress. But the here, that never changes. Everything else is floating through passing by.And wow, if you are grounded in that here, here now, wow, why not? Why not? It's a colorful display. And yet, it's still just an entertainment. Nothing real about it. It's going to end.
I love reminding people on the individual meetings that when they have fears, all the fears are ultimately fear of non-existence or fear of death. I love bringing up, look, you know, die daily, said St. Francis. We all, every machine is going to collapse. Every car is going to expire. Everybody is going to die. How wonderful. Why not now? Die before you die. That sense of self, the sense of identity with the body is illusory, imaginary, only in thinking. The presence without the thought does not have the shape or a size of a body, or the age of the body, or the problems of the body.
None of it. And yet it can fully appreciate and make the most of all the worlds that are appearing in that here. Because there's so many of them, ever fresh, infinite, every moment, ever fresh, never to be repeated, never to be the same again. Anyone? You guys, would you like to maybe say where you are and how it is?Hi, I've just come off a Zen retreat in India for the last five days. I suppose I've got a history that goes back to 30, 40 years of meditation, involvement in Buddhism and all these sorts of things. But I've also originally saw Bob here about nearly 15 or 20 years ago.
I've got a sort of history going back through non-duality as well. So the idea of going on a Zen retreat is a little bit sort of going against my grain. I didn't really want to. You know, do a kind of practice as such. But I thought, here's an opportunity just to be sort of still and quiet and just see kind of what happens. I know. Yeah, and then quite quickly, you know, the term Sat Chit Ananda has come up like a number of times here, but that was the experience. It was just this sort of gentle dropping into being, kind of being aware. And with that come, Ananda, you know, I think it's often translated as bliss, but also was like just contentment or feeling settled or whatever.
I think bliss is perhaps, sometimes it was bliss, but sometimes I think that's maybe too strong a word, but just to kind of ease really. And that was very much kind of the... The flavour of the retreat. And what I was using for... I was using some pointers while I was there, and the person that I really resonate with the most, you know, it's probably sacrilegious to say this in this room, but even more so than Bob is actually John,I really love his work. I just think his clarity is just something else. And so I was using his kind of pointers. And at times, a bit of disturbance would come into the mind, the kind of thinking process would kick back in, all that kind of stuff, and how easy it is to kind of get caught up in that.
The kind of insight that happened was just, you know, where are these thoughts kind of happening? They're just happening here in presence awareness. It's like, wow, you know, it's like that just breaks the cycle somehow. Yeah, that's what I wanted to share. That's beautiful. How about you, Tim?Well, I think I'm probably, I too was with Tony when I saw Bob some time ago. I guess I'm holding an opinion that I'm pretty sort of dense with the eye, you know, the sort of thinking and machinations of all that. That's such a beautiful way to put it. I'm holding an opinion. Yeah, and I think I kind of...
I, do I see it? I know, I kind of recognise it, but it doesn't seem to be enough that I'm that free of it. So, pardon? I want more, more. Yeah, maybe that's... A pleasure. Yeah, maybe that is sort of something that's going on. I think there's a fair amount of judging of, you know, I'm not doing this very well or I haven't kind of got this or this isn't, you know, this is probably a fair amount of that. Yeah, and, you know, also sort of a recognition of the smallness of the eye experience, like, you know, how, like before, you know, I would observe myself going from one thing to another.And there's also a part of me that just goes, it's just so tedious, you know, just what you're doing is just so tedious.
What is this? And, you know, so I kind of see that show in myself. And, yeah, I know. I don't know what to say. Actually, that's pretty beautiful that you are aware of all those dynamics happening. Oh, yeah. Sometimes I'm fighting, like I get into this kind of, yeah, I try to sort of either make it go away or I'll just go and then I'll kind of, there'll be a whole mental sort of thing of, well, you know, you're fighting, you know, or you're disappointed or sometimes the streams of things that are going on are so subtle that I can't even catch it. It's not even formulated into words.
It's just that it's somewhere in my psyche is kind of.building things okay so it's not even words it's not it's just it's happened subtle energy of oh a little this this was what i was gonna ask and you described it beautifully there is if there is a subtle layer still like now not just this not yet now there is a subtle level of disappointment subtle level of comparing judging it is still the mind if you can include it in observation but the last is you see the stepping back into that sense of presence this one is always light it is space-like yeah it is completely neutral it doesn't judge anything i know and i see so you know and through sort of times yeah you know i've kind of been with tony i've been sort of investigating for some time with interims of bringing up children.
But, yeah, the eye attaches to the looking and the, you know, on really sort of subtle level it will come in so fast to I am looking here, I am seeing, and then there'll be a, the next eye will go, well, I am seeing that the eye. Yeah. So, oh, for fuck's sake, you know. Yeah. And you're going to, what is the, and it just keeps on, it's like one of those mirrors that people, you know, there's two mirrors, right? The mind looping. The mind's just.looping in this thing and then occasionally there'll be a dropping of that yeah not when you see the whole looping you see the looping quite hard to get out of the looping sometimes i guess um but it's just it gets the the sort of minuscule frustration gets kind of finer and finer and finer but it's still kind of like What?
I'm just completely and utterly trapped in this. This is just like a, this is like, there's no going away. Tony on the last retreat brought up this, I think he was joking, but I don't even know whether it's a real thing, but he said, I was in Cohen of the goose in the bottle. And then I had this kind of spontaneous thing of this, neither are going anywhere. The goose is still stuck in the bottle. The goose is still there. There's nothing to do. You know, it's just like that's where it is. You realize that you are not that goose in a bottle. You are the knowing of it.
Like, you know, seeing, the moment the seeing is associated with I am seeing, I am seeing the judgment, and I am seeing the one seeing the judgment, and I am seeing the one seeing the one who is seeing the judgment, there is still the I attached to the seeing. But see, without the thought I, seeing is happening. Seeing is happening without the thought I. Newborn baby has the I.eyes open, seeing is happening through the eyes. There is no person doing it. Like the heartbeat is happening. You're not beating your heart. It's spontaneous. In the same way, thinking, Bob has this beautiful pointer, what's your next thought going to be?
You think you are thinking your thoughts? Okay, from now on, only think the thoughts, enlightened, blissful, enlightened thoughts with no I. You're not thinking your thoughts. Thinking is happening, it's a part of the functioning, just like digestion. So you don't know what's the next enzyme going to arise. Same way, you don't know what's the next thoughts going to arise. And the next thought may be, oh, I am seeing the one who is seeing. But that's just the thought arising. Well, the think ink is happening. It's like the vibration of the energy field. See ink is the same. It's just the energy field. It happens to be transmitted through this particular little cameras, like the camera here on the laptop.
It can the computer, if it could have the AI assistant, it would say, yes, I am seeing. I'm seeing you and I'm looking. But you know, there is no one there that is actually seeing. It's just the electricity going through the software and through the camera. And that's what is seeing. Same here. It's the energy of life looking through this camera, seeing, and the narrative comes on top and narrates, this is I. This is I am seeing. There is no one there seeing. Seeing, like digestion, like thinking, like hearing, is an automatic.function so if you actually see the looping mind from the perspective that there is cognizing emptiness just witnessing unlocated sometimes getting out of the loop is easier when you actually attach the location so i am seeing i'm looking i'm sitting here and i'm seeing that mind around here looping maybe or maybe around here looping okay so i'm looking from here on this one how do i know that I'm looking from here.
Okay, so I'm somewhere around there looking at this, looking at this. And then, yeah, okay, so how do I know that I am here? Where am I knowing it from? Oh, yeah, maybe I'm just full space-like, looking at this one, looking at this one, looking at this one. And every step back, you're more spacious and dissolving. And then suddenly you realize that, oh, the knowing is completely unlocatable. All you can say about it is here and the mind will assume a location of here we'll put one cloud there one cloud there one cloud there but it is only a assumption based on imagination of space all you can say here seeing hearing here but location sometimes flips the loop It used to flip the loop for me.
Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. And we are. Yeah. Thank you.Do you want to say something, Benjamin? I see you on mute. No? No. Okay. You're not on mute. Okay. So thank you, everyone. Thank you, guys, for hanging out with us. Thank you, Johan.