This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
And we're going to just plug it in. And we have me. Amanda, Loki, please. And we have... Tanya, Bob and I will have to figure out the sound. So if anyone who is with us online can let us know whether we are audible or not, that would be lovely.I can hear some sound. Okay, and welcome. Last meeting, I think I started reminding people that we're going to be converting the whole thing from weekly to monthly gathering. In the meantime, weekly, we're going to be joining on Zoom because a lot of people who are showing up watching us live on Facebook. Could basically speak instead of type that could be more convenient so that was an idea that one of the participants came up with and we'll give it a go we'll see how it how it goes so next week we're going to be here as usually because it's the last last sunday of a month and the next one we're going to be gathering at home end of march In the meantime, if anyone feels like having the non-duality explorations, join us via Zoom.
We may be still streaming via Facebook Live. We'll just have to test the whole thing. So that's that. And we get to the point. Actually, it's 15th of February. So exactly a year ago, we were having a memorial of Bob's passing. And there was a time when we had a few people standing up in front and giving us a little anecdotes and a little stories and a little insight into that incredibly beautiful dream character. That is...in the form of formlessness right now. And we also had about nine days ago a little sea funeral when similar thing happened, different people. Half of the people who could not participate in the memorial flew interstate or who were abroad came up with us and gave us that little insight.
And I posted some of it on the YouTube and of course, straight away, trolls with some weird names that don't exist had the concept that their understanding of Advaita is so strong that there was obviously a doers doing wrong thing that they shouldn't have done. That made me laugh. I think that's actually a really good point to start because that was actually brought up on some of the other Zoom meetings that we hold with the group. There was a man with really beautiful, clear understanding and way of expressing himself in non-duality who is attracted to an energy of devotion. It's just an attraction, the same sort of attraction which brings my cats to the treat, is the attraction.
There is no need for imagining an individual entity who possesses that attraction. The body is repelled from the bad smell. That's how it is conditioned. That's how it is structured.is also attracted to places where the pleasure or safety or comfort or joy is provided. That's just a natural functioning. And then, of course, there will be trolls who will come up with the conceptual understanding that, oh, that means... That there is an entity inside and that entity is doing things which it shouldn't be doing. Like the man I'm talking about, he shouldn't be going to a mass in church or other place of devotion, a Vedanta temple.
He shouldn't if he had an understanding. So that's a really good place to start exploration of non-duality because the basic predicament and a concept is that there is a life essence that is running the whole universe, that is moving the planets, that is moving the blood inside the body, that is breathing the lungs, that is bringing thoughts, feelings and insights. And it doesn't require any entity which would be doing those things. So there isn't anyone there. Ever whether you believe there is or you investigate and you know there isn't either way there's no one there life is self-organizing life is speaking right now and i have no idea what it is gonna say actually i had no idea i'm gonna just even address that troll i had no idea i forgot about it some So it came up.And this came up.
And speaking is happening, hearing, seeing, listening, coming, everything is happening. And particularly on that beautiful little sea funeral that we had, we were answering questions, how life brought you to those meetings, to non-duality, to Bob? And that brings such a juicy mystery. Oh, someone said something happened or something broke down. The car didn't make it on. Line of coincidence that makes a complete change in the flow of that particular dream. And it shows you how little in charge, how little... How little even of an illusion of control you can hold to keep that story together. So it brings back the mystery of experiencing and expressing itself as life, to be that life discovering itself.
And experiencing and expressing itself. So again, the basic, you are that life. You are not the imagined entity made of concepts. You are not a person, male or female or American or Australian or Polish. You are not a body made of bones and flesh and cells. You are not the mind made of thoughts and feelings.and emotions, those concepts are ideas that were adopted because we learn through imitation, because they were perpetuated from generation to generation, completely innocently adopted. But they can be questioned. They can be looked at. And then it could be revealed very, very clearly that life is just happening. Decisions are just happening.
Actions are happening. Natural urges. Are happening the same way in the cat or a little baby or in an adult desires are just happening mental obsessions are just happening if there is no sense of ownership of me the person that is taking credit is responsible or is guilty of those things life gets easier those patterns instead of being source of psychological suffering become a source of wonder wow this body is obsessing or this body has whatever shopping addiction or food uh some whatever is the pattern every machine is is programmed in a way that again enables it the most smooth survival so it will have tons of habitstons of behaviors that are preconditioned because it's too many things to process.
So they got, you know, the automatic functions comes along. Imagine driving your car to come here and thinking about every change of a gear or pushing the brake. It's impossible. You wouldn't be able to move at the appropriate speed. It gets automatic, automatic competence, they call it. So we have tons of those behaviors that has been conditioned just the same way in nature, animals, cats, dogs. And in fact, every other behavior, including the behavior that is known in consciousness as spontaneously arising. Is still the autopilot working. It is still that biocomputer monitoring constantly the environment, responding constantly to the environment in the best way it has in the moment, according to its conditioning and experiences.
And sometimes the best way is getting drunk or shooting heroin and maybe overshooting and dying is not ideal but it doesn't have any other option if the machine was growing up conditioned in this particular environment it simply doesn't have another option so it always works optimal because And again, as we see in nature, it is wired for survival.body is wired the body mind is wired for survival it is loving to be and this is what they this is what they call reality being awareness of being and loving to be everyone exists everyone is being can't stop it It's open. Yeah. And everyone is wired for existence, will chase pleasure and avoid pain, will do their best in every given moment without any choice in the matter.
Sometimes doing your best is harming someone else because that's how the body is conditioned. Sometimes it is the apology after that happens also because that's how the body is conditioned. So the idea that there is a self that needs to understand something or experience something. That was actually another really nice, inspiring conversation I had lately. There is a vocabulary issue with all the non-dual presentations because every word has its limits. We can call it God and then we have people assuming a big daddy on the sky pulling a string with a long rope with no underwear. That's not good enough, is it? So we call it maybe life essence.
But then life essence, where is it when the body is dead? We still know that it's life that decomposes.the body so again the word has its limit is good enough for certain expression and then it's it's use ends and we need another words intelligence energy Bob says intelligence is the is an innate capacity that this energy has in a way it finds it it finds the way of expressing But the static aspect is not a movement, it's not the energy, it's a potential. So again, the limitation of a pointer. And then the same limitations are associated with... All of the non-dual ideas. For example, Nisargadatta insisted that this is not an experience, it is an understanding.
And so did Bob in many, many ways and in many descriptions. Because, yes, it isn't an experience. It isn't something that starts at 7.30 on Monday or whatever, experience of cosmic union and bliss. And that is the enlightenment. And, oh, God forbid, if it has the beginning, it will have an end. And now it finishes at 9.20. And, oh, my God, how do I get back to that intense pleasure? That was enlightenment and now it is not. It's not an experience. But understanding, when we speak about understanding, all right, okay, okay, so I'll keep digging.I'll keep studying. I'll keep writing down, making notes until I work it out and I finally understand it.
Like, you know, you can understand the double helix in the DNA. You can understand the quantum mechanics. I'll just try and try and try until I understand it. No, this is not that type of understanding. So in this context, both words are wrong. Though understanding, and this is where Bob would bring it under, probably as clear as it gets, under the present experiencing, ing. Whether you call it understanding or you call it experiencing. It isn't a particular content of the capacity to understand, of the understanding. It isn't a particular formula that you just acknowledge somewhere or grasp or write down. And it isn't a particular experience of pleasure or bliss or anything at all.
It is the ing, the current process. So it is the knowing. And that knowing, understanding that you are, is not something that you can learn. Understanding that you are is already present. You can't say that you are not. You can't stop being. You can't not be. And try not to understand it. That's absurd. It's not even required.to comprehend it in a way that the comprehension is assumed to be. It is the knowing. The knowing. Understanding is too long of a word for that particular pointer. Knowing. You know that you are. Even if you try to forget about it, the knowing is innate. So experiencing in that context is the same thing.
The experiencing your own existence or knowing your own existence is the same thing. It's just two different words. They both limited. They both not perfect. But they both point to the same obviousness, the same certainty. Even to deny the knowing of existence or even to deny the experiencing of existence, obviously the existence is there to deny it. So this is where it actually resolves the controversy, whether it is an experience or understanding, is neither. It's not a particular formula and it is not a particular experience, but it is the current existing, the current experiencing of that existing and showing coming back to this alive present experiencing.
This mysterious present experiencing to which thebe a content, there may be emotional content, there may be like whatever, the description of it, there may be a meaning made to it, a story, there may be an idea of a person owning the whole show brought into it but you can see that all that content is appearing only because the consciousness is present if there was no presence if there was no consciousness the idea that i'm a person in the past that needs to seek enlightenment and eventually will find it in some time maybe later or maybe in next lifetime all those thoughts all those contents those stories can only appear because of that presence And the story will change.
Right now it may be this story, five minutes later it may be another story. The weather will change and the mood will change. There may be whatever, the period or there may be testosterone deficiency and there will be a low self-esteem arising or high self-esteem arising. But those things are all appearing because of the presence of consciousness. Any dream, good, positive, negative. So it isn't about changing the dream, about having a more pleasant or more blissful dream. It isn't about achieving a state in which there ismore pleasant experience of a cosmic union with the universe. It is about, and again, that's another wrong word. It is about freedom from all of that.
Freedom from needing anything to be in any particular way. Freedom from things needing to be different than they are. Freedom for anything that arises to arise. And the detachment, detachment is sort of a detachment with love, really, because there is loving to be underlying whatever arises. And detachment isn't a sense of separation. Detachment is realizing that I am space. Of consciousness or presence in which the content arises. And the content arises within me and it isn't separate from me. It isn't all of me or part of me. It is just an expression of that space. This is where Buddhist concept of space or formless becoming a form or emptiness vibrating into different patterns, shapes and forms.
The consciousness as a potential or energy as a potential. Appearing in the 10,000 different ways only because there is a potential.Only because there is that screen of consciousness, only because there is an observer. So the content is secondary, although it is here for appreciation. It isn't to deny the reality of the dream, because it's neither real nor unreal. It appears real. Therefore, it is the content of experiencing. But it isn't real in the sense of a definition of the reality, which is that which never changes, because it changes constantly. So the time to appreciate it is only now, because in an instant it's gone. It's not going to be there.
So the joy of being free from the content and free to appreciate the content, including the, you know, the content is always appearing dualistically, including the dark side of the coin, including the, you know, appreciating the day and the night, the winter and the summer, the pain and the pleasure, the up and down, the low and high, the positive state and the negative state, all of it. Because without the darkness, there wouldn't be light. Without the sadness, there wouldn't be joy. Without the sickness, there wouldn't be health. Are you allergic to cats a bit? Do you want to eat this? Antihistamine.I'll see you as long as you don't mind.
Oh, no, no. Yeah. I've been here many times in the cat house. I've passed by, but yeah, thank you. It would be easier if you got a chair and you could sit at the back or if you had cats. It's probably the air and the happy. Yeah. I'll go outside and do this. Thank you. And we also do have antihistamines. Tanya has a little bit of... Yeah, I can't remember that much. I need to water my antihistamines. They're attracted to you as well. They find you every time. Yeah, that's what they do. That's what they do. Yeah. Yeah, so that's really the basics. Firstly, you know, the idea of seeking or finding something outside yourself, looking through the books, looking through thinking, looking through contemplation, is looking in the wrong direction.
Because thinking is the clouds on the sky. Sky is there.Sky is there with or without the clouds, but you can't get to silence of the sky through thinking mind. All the seeking is always in the mind. Where else would you seek? You don't seek under the carpet. Even that would have to appear in the mind first. So all the spiritual search is looking for something. Some people look for God, some people look for themselves, some people look for that supreme state. But it is always looking for something that is allegedly not present. So it is looking in the wrong direction. It's trying to move away from here.
How could you do that? You can't. It is always, you are always here. You are always now. Seeking is an obstacle. Trying to find it is an obstacle. It is not to say that there is something wrong. It is also what is happening. It is spontaneously arising from the sense of incompleteness that comes from the sense of separation. So it's a natural course of action that the remedy for that misconcept, that wrong concept of me being poor, miserable, locked up, unlovable, not good enough, and having that existential angst and looking for the remedy for that in any possible way, self-help.practices, meditations, silencing the mind, training the mind, all of having some of the impact, you know, the life can get better.
The dream can get better, but none of them leading to realization that what you are looking for is right here, right now, and it cannot be found through any activity and through any imagination of something happening not right now, but tomorrow. Or next lifetime. It is the recognition, the whole realization is the recognition that right here, right now, life is leaving you. You don't have to think the next thought. In fact, you can't. You don't know how to think thoughts. You can just wait and the thought will show up. And the action will show up and the feeling will show up and the activity and the attraction including an attraction of going to church or doing sea funeral anything just arises spontaneously without any doing so realizing that life is already leaving itself as self-organized there is nothing for that alleged me to do is already bringing a respite, is already relaxing.
Okay, so let me see what's going to happen next. What thought is going to come? What activity is going to come? Oh, there is an idea of doing an excessive planning maybe, or writing at least.of content of a book. Hmm, interesting. That just came up. And now another thing that happens, that narrative pattern in the mind, that program of relating everything to the imagined self-center called me, it arises too. Oh, I've done it. I have done, I made a plan for the day, or I made the list of contents, or I made myself a breakfast, or I had a phone call. Of course, that is how the language functions.
But realizing that even that credit-taking behavior is spontaneously arising. And I'm not doing it. I didn't take a credit. I didn't take a blame. I didn't do anything because that I, which everything relates to, is a phantom. It's a fiction. It's a mental image made of snippets, bits and pieces of memories and concepts about myself that are only existent. When there are thoughts, when there is thinking about it. The moment the thinking stops, any sense of identity stops. There is no self, there is no I. But the existence is still there. The presence is still there. See, she's allergic to cats. So they clink her head.
Yes, so realizing that that sense of separate identity is based on thought, is based on ideas, is based on that solid stream of attention feeding the completely mechanical narrative pattern. Realizing that is enough. Because it doesn't mean that the narrative won't come up again. It will. It doesn't mean that in the language the I idea will not show up. It will. But seeing how that magic trick is completely automatic, made on autopilot, the idea arises, the solid stream of attention that is againnaturally guided towards whatever it requires, wherever, whichever direction is required, is happening of its own without me doing any of it. That's a respite.
Now I can just rest in that singularity of presence, witnessing presence and notice what's the next thing going to happen. What's the next action or next thought or next feeling this particular body is going to perform. I know this body is somewhat closer. I can experience the touch and smell and all of that. And because there is nothing that I need to worry any longer, I can just be amazed by the spontaneity of that activity popping through. I can be amazed when this body gets dysregulated. I can be amazed when it defends itself, when it gets emotionally upset. Wow, what a fascinating journey to see the codes.
You know, it has a lot of childhood trauma in it. Some things trigger that trauma. And it's just, wow. Oh, wow. And it is a life of discovery because none of it is personal. Even though sometimes I find that body sobbing. Wow. Amazing. I'm not doing any of it. But that's what's happening. And that's not going to last. That's only in this particular.Enjoy it while it's there. Learn from it. Look at it. There is a subtle joy in a freedom, even in uncomfortable situation, even in a toothache or headache or emotional upset. Particular flavor, flavorsome, joyous freedom. Of that not being personal at all, which takes away the psychological suffering from the activity.
Activity happens just as it did. There may be screaming happening, or there may be crying happening, or laughing happening, but that's what's happening. And there is a freedom in it.I think I'm going to take your boy and give you this one. I'm smushing the book. Am I going to announce the book? Okay. Okay. So I was going to, I have it finished already a couple of months ago, the biography of Bob that I said I will be publishing on the year of his passing. But apparently, you know, English, as you can all tell, is not my first language. I still do a lot of grammatical errors.
So I used one of the AI to check those errors, and then I used some of the humans to verify AI, and AI didn't really rise to the challenge. So it will take much, much more time to get the grammar right. The previous book that I published, I had three American men actually working on it for probably two or three months to actually get it right. So it will take a moment. But just to have something that people were asking for a while about for the last probably couple of years to publish, I actually did. This one is a compilation. It is five parts in the compilation.
Beyond Words, which I only have a tiny little booklet printed out that is not in the electronic version. You can't have it on Kindle. Now you can in the compilation. And again, as usually, the price is minimal, so I'm not going to get much of a royalty, but you can have as cheap as it gets. And we have two versions of Beyond Words. One version is the one that is...Minimum editing. Don't worry. Gilbert Schultz. And another one is with a little bit of a history of a book done by Andrew Lin, who collaborated with Bob. Bob actually told him to expand on it. And he beautifully channeled, that's Andrew, beautifully channeled Bob's teachings, expanding on the book.
And Bob absolutely loved every word. He said, this is brilliant. I want you to put it out there. But because there was a clash, some people disagreed, some agreed. Andrew just put it down, threw it to the bin, sent it to one friend and forgot about the whole endeavor. And it has been recovered just roughly around Bob's passing. And probably it was a week after he passed away, he said, look, the friend sent me a copy of that. I threw it out and I have it. I'm going to read it to you. And he read in front of 20 few people in Zoom. Everybody absolutely delighted in it.
So we have it published together. We also have here Bob's commentary on Cincy Mink, which our beautiful friend Jenny from Sweden transcribed from the YouTube channel. And because there was a video recorded on it. And we also have a little snippets, 42, being the answer to life and the universe. Like Bob used to hear from many, many seekers when he explained how to get to our place, which you hop off on a stop 42 if you take the tram.Just take to the end of the line. So I actually compiled the 42, which was 21 key concepts and 21 key metaphors. Bob used to say, you know, he used to repeat the spiel in many different ways, although key concepts were always standing out because we learn to believe in being a separate entity through continuous repetition 24 hours a day seven days a week 365 days a week we relate to ourselves as if there was someone there running the show as if there was a person thinking thoughts feeling feelings, making decision choices.
No one ever found that person. But because of the self-hypnosis repeatedly exposed through the environment and through the self-talk, self-hypnosis in which we kind of convinced ourselves that there is an entity that beats the heart, or maybe we don't go that far, but okay, it doesn't beat the heart, but it can control the breathing. Well, it doesn't do it all the time, but kind of half of the time and maybe one third of the time. But it can certainly think the thoughts. It can fire those neurons there and create electrical impulses. It can choose.to think good thoughts or bad thoughts or you can choose to do affirmations and other stuff or choose to meditate.
It's very easy to actually debunk those ideas if you are willing to look. But majority of people live their lives without ever questioning that assumption that there is some entity there that is running the show. And they live in a perpetual sense of shame and guilt and remorse coming up from realization that this body was supposed to do this and it didn't quite do it the way it was supposed to according to that mental image and of course there is a sense well there are other remedies for that also but it isn't simply it isn't necessary the psychological suffering coming from relating everything to entity that can't be found isn't isn't necessary there is a simpler way of living happier way of living and that happier way of living is the is the way in which when you see that there is intelligence far far greater than that one program of taking credit that is constantly relating every thought and every event to the me of memory, the me that is imagined, that is made of concepts, well, life becomes easier, becomes happier, becomes more compassionate, becomes more natural.more present, more joyous.
And of course, there are other concepts. Oh, yeah, you know, to say I'm not the doer, it excuses me from taking responsibility, from doing bad things. That is a spiritual bypassing and that is a wrong thing to do. I should be or feel responsible. If I do something wrong, I should take responsibility and take action. Again, those things are very, very easy to question as well. People who have never been exposed to those teachings, never heard of a possibility of questioning the self-center, Some of them will, some of them won't. Apologize if they cause harm. And same here. Questioning self-centered doesn't mean that all the socialization will suddenly get disabled.
It doesn't mean that suddenly I had a friend who decided, oh, you know, this is it. I can't investigate Advaita any longer because I have three kids and I don't want to just leave them behind. If I believe there is no one there, maybe I won't feed them. See, this is the basic misconception. You think that right now you are there and you are in charge. And tomorrow maybe you will not be there and you won't be in charge. The truth is simpler than that. There is never a self. Not today, not yesterday, not 10 years ago, there was ever a self running the show.
So if you took care of your kids,10 years ago. With the delusion of being the doer, the probability that suddenly absence of one delusion will change the behavior of the body is ridiculous. Well, there is a probability that things will change, whether you investigate or not. But even constructing the idea that this getting rid of a lie that causes a lot of turmoil, a lot of pain and a lot of psychological suffering, a lot of harm inflicted on others, because when we suffer, we hurt, hurt people, hurt people. So predicting that there is a harm associated with realizing that there is a greater intelligence, a higher power that is beating your heart and is moving the planet and is causing the winds and is causing the thinking and it's causing the feeling.
Is well you know how badly do we really want to find out if we don't there is absolutely no there is no agenda to convince anyone about anything if you are drawn to investigation if you are curious or inspired by the possibility of more effortway of living life, more wondrous way of experiencing the uniqueness of this present moment as it shows up in the right place. And that I think is a moment where we could, because yeah, we did not have that many vivid conversations lately because we didn't have that many people who were willing to come and converse. Let's make the most of it while we're still here.
So anyone would like to start us off? Say something, ask something, please. Yes, I haven't checked it, but I'll... Thanks, Kat. Amazing, as always. Yeah, something you were saying earlier about, I don't know, emotions or, you know, I can't remember, to be honest, I can't remember exactly what it was, but the crux of it was, you know, live so much of our life effectively not directly experiencing what's happening. Like everything is experiencing everything through this filter of thought or through this kind of mis... Misperception of an ideaentity to whom something is happening and whom has to be made safe or has to, you know, plan and execute and all this kind of stuff.
And it's been an interesting week for me in noticing that I had a wedding, a good friend's wedding last weekend and Definitely had too many drinks at the wedding. And then the following day experienced what I'm now heard is called hangxiety, which is hangover anxiety, where you're hungover and because you feel crap, you start ruminating on, you know, embarrassing things you might have done the day before. And it was quite strong. And it lasted throughout the week when numerous times thoughts would come up of, oh, I can't believe you said that, or I can't believe you thought that would be funny. And, you know, it was like quite a strong reaction to these like feelings of embarrassment or whatever you want to call it.
And I started asking myself the question when this came up. It's like, okay, what does this feel like if I don't offer any resistance to this emotion? And the moment that I asked myself that question, I'm like, okay, I'm just going to let any resistance to this go and see what's there.and this, you know, embarrassment or whatever we wish to call it, is just directly perceiving it as just another frequency of energy. And this is actually, this is what you said that reminded me of it was it's, is quite quietly enjoyable all of a sudden. Like, and I would kind of start to dissipate and then I would almost like try to think of the thought that created that energy in the first place to try and bring more of this energy without the resistance.
And... it's kind of astonishing that something that what we think of as like quote-unquote negative emotions is actually just a resistance to what is and what is is that that energy coming up which may have an underlying kind of physiological root but then the resistance to it is what creates the negative emotion and the suffering that goes with that. And even like looking at what is resistance like, and the resistance itself is just a belief in this thought that There is a me separate from this and that the thought itself and the belief in its thought is what creates the resistance. And it's just...so fundamental to all of the suffering that especially like emotional suffering all these things and throughout the week even this morning it was coming out and be like oh and i'm like hold on what is this like without resistance and there's just pure experiencing and just a quiet enjoyment and a sensation in the body and, you know, It's just so fundamental, this misidentification.
With thought for what we are. And as soon as that drops away, there's just pure experiencing. And yeah, it's a joy. That's why it's so joyous to come here because you get to just sit here for an hour and a half, for the most part, just experiencing. So, yeah, thanks for a great spiel. Thank you. That's good. Nailed it. Thanks. That was very well put too, Rocky. Thanks for the spiel. Kat, something that relates to all that that you said was detached with love. I like that expression. For me, it means, well, you are that loving to be anyway. The love is the natural part, but it's not possessive or demanding or trying toIt's like detached from the story rather than from the love itself.
You know, you are the love. You are that, you know, what you seek you already are. And, you know, the I am here is speaking to the I am that you are, you know. Not the story about our so-called individual tragic or exciting life or whatever it is you may conceptualize it as. It is just that being, knowing and loving to be without the story. But whenever the mind starts going on a thought, that concept of I comes up and the desire to control and manage situations like I shouldn't have a hangover, I shouldn't feel anxious, oh I shouldn't have done those things that caused pain, oh I had a really pleasurable day last Friday, I'm going to repeat that and I'm going to make my life happy in some way, chase happiness.
I'm going to resist pain. All these are just ideas. And even those ideas are the natural flow of life too. So even those ideas that seem to cause the resistance are part of living too. And it's just not being caught in the concept. Of concepts. The one that I really like isAnd it was quite astounding when I first heard it was, and I think it was from Bob, of course, was the thinker. The thinker is a thought that there's somebody here thinking at all that can manage and control it in some way. It's just a thought. And that thought comes up too. And that'll be discarded at some stage and be back in the story.
And then you go, hang on again, this is just another story. I can detach from that and just be the love itself, what it appears on. Because you're not the controller or you can think you're the controller, but life is living itself and you're being lived and you always have been lived, but you think that you should be able to change the course and make it go some other way. Interesting to hear. Anyone else want to go?I'm lost for words, whatever. Well, the words never point at the real anyway. It is, you know, I love coming here too and we can speak with people that, you know, have seen this or understand it too in varying ways and can express it.
But whatever's being expressed, and, you know, I think all the major religions try to point back to that, you know, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, just the beingness. You know, like even Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, you know. He wasn't talking about himself or, you know, the story gets made, oh, he's talking about himself if we follow him or, you know, all that sort of stuff, we'll find it. But he's pointing at the I am-ness, that's what I think I see in that. Yeah. The other one that I really like is, before Abraham was, I am. In that the I am-ness is universal, you know.
It's not time dependent. It's just here and now, always here and now, the beingness that is that simple before the mind comes in and complicates it with its stories and its desires and fears and whatever.Amazing what the absence of a comma can do. The what, sorry? The absence of a comma or a semicolon. Yeah. Semicolon. I am the, rather than I am comma. Yeah. Or I am semicolon. Yeah. It'd be missing. I am is the word. And it's in the, you know, the very beginnings of the Bible with Moses in the desert and the burning bush, you know. Who are you? I am the I am that you are.
It's there right from time immemorial. Not that time comes into it, but it's just, it is always the fundamental as I am, that we always take it to be as I am me. And the I am that we think we are is the memory. I'm the same bloke that got out of bed yesterday and I was just, you know, set my mind on doing this and it has or it hasn't happened, it's good or it's bad in that case and all those sort of thoughts that come up with that idea.It's all memory. Oh, yes. All good ideas. I got a couple of comments here from the online community.
And it says, Julia says, much love from the U.S. Thank you. And she also says, most things we do is rooted in our desire to be and survive. Yeah, yeah, you can clearly see that, can't you? You know, like everything, everything really you do is either to find pleasure, because pleasure is linked to survival, or to avoid pain, because pain is linked to danger. And Sandy says, Bob's words, what's wrong with right now, unless you think about it, was a game changer for the Sandy character. Yeah, it's a real good game changer for quite a few characters around because if you if you really follow the pointer if you really Check it investigate and see you know, I remember Julia was saying that different Julia.
I
It was saying that, you know, she heard the title and made her laugh. Ah, what a good title. Yeah, but there's more to it than just a good title that makes you laugh. It's a pointer that can be a game changer. Because you actually look and you find nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing wrong with right now if you don't think about it. Nothing wrong. Even though... And there comes thinking. Even though, and then comes more thinking. You know, when you think of, you know, all the victims of different tragedies, and you think about all that is not happening right now, but it's only happening in the imagination, in the thinking, in the conceptualizing.
You see how the suffering rushes in through thinking. But again, back to the pointer. What's wrong right now if I don't, unless I don't think about it? What can I say about anything without the thought? Absolutely nothing. But anything's wrong? No. Is the heart beating? Well, seeing is happening, hearing is happening, life is happening, presence is here, absolutely here, with or without the thought. And then with the thinking, all the content rushes, all the judgment. And Nischkala says thank you. And Julia says how we think things should be a major.cause of unnecessary suffering another amazing spiel she also says and gilbert says there is no negative emotion the narrative is a translation from the me of memory without any narrative or word what are you yeah that's the question Without the word, without the thought, without the thinking, without the memory, without the past, who are you?
This is the question not to find it a nice, good, laughable question, but to really, really follow, really see. And Sandy sent the hearts to it. And James says, great to hear your spontaneous pointing. You are such a brilliant light for all who are ready to see. Thank you, James. That's that for the online community. Thank you for being with us. And next week, you may, or next week, or maybe in a couple of weeks, you may want to join us on Zoom and actually say what you have to say instead of type it. But if you want to keep typing, we'll include that too.
Exactly. Just take a mic. I won't show you. Yeah, okay. I guess one of the things that was mentioned last week was about the dream. It's a dream and that the dream is the same as dreaming. I struggled with the bull in the dream.when, you know, the physical stuff is here. So what you're saying when it's just a dream is that, well, we're all vibrations anyway. That's what you're saying. And that dream, the appearance, is the same as us dreaming dreams. Can you clarify that? Yes, so it's a metaphor because labeling dots in any way will always be limiting. You can liken it to a dream.
It is like a dream. Because the characteristic of the dream, you know, while you're dreaming, it feels real. While you're dreaming, you are completely responding with whatever the dream environment provides. You know, be it flying or eating cake or fighting with someone, there is always some environment arising. And there is a response of that body which feels like me because it's here responding. But in the dream at night, you don't really have much of a memory, usually. You don't usually focus on, you know, how old are you? It's just a spontaneous responding. But you can see that when you wake up, that whole...environment disappears you vaguely remember the interaction but at the moment when it was there it felt genuine and real so you can't really say whether it existed or it didn't you can't really distinguish the whole dream and the whole dreaming process from the dream character they arise simultaneously when the dream starts the whole scenery comes together with whatever is inside it with whoever is inside with that you that character responding it is like a one big sandwich coming arising and falling together So that is the metaphor to this life right here, right now, because when you fall asleep, this one disappears also.
When you fall asleep, you are in the room, in the bed, under the blanket, that is gone. And you are maybe climbing the mountains or fighting with someone or speaking with someone. So that dream is gone. Another dream replaces it. This dream body is lying flat on bed with eyes closed. And the dream body somewhere is responding to the environment. So it kind of brings, this is a metaphor, because really what it is can't be described. It's complete mystery. It's right here now, next minute it is not. It is ever fresh presence awareness and constantly changing content, like in the dream.That's why we liken it.
And then the other way, Tanya was said at the end, she said, and this conversation is not happening. But that was happening in the moment and that goes, you know, it does my head in. It does my head in. By the time the mouth is open. To describe the narrative of what's happened to the company, it's gone. It's no longer happening. Did you see that? Don't even have a word for it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And the dream, too, it is a wonderful giveaway because in the dream there's a belief that you're the doer and that you're the doer affecting stuff in the dream and separate from the other characters in the dream.
But in actuality, it's all happening in your consciousness, in your dream.And the other question is, what is said is that the only reality is from each individual's perspective. There's no one reality. So I have my own reality, you have your own reality, and you have your own. Well, there is only one reality. There is only one, and it's shit. There's only one. And you know what that is. You know what that is. The dream is unique. Okay. Yeah, the dream, okay. From every perspective. Yeah.And I see that Ross has the mic. Yeah, I've got a pass from Cliff. I've been holding it for it. All right, okay.
Look, I forgot about one of the most important. I said this book has five parts. And the part that is, I think, the most interesting is the part four, in which Bob is actually diving into... Intelligence energy versus thought when he makes a beautiful beautiful distinction and it hasn't been published before i just found it digging through his through his notes and i hope i'll find some more of those type of treasures because it's similar sort of like in like in like beyond words beyond mind written in his words in those poetic sentences that could be break broken into a little bits and pieces And it really nails down the difference between the pure intelligence versus thinking.
Thought is a construct, is already a form, while that intelligence, pure intelligence, pure functioning, Well, it is also an expression of that field of infinite potentiality, but it is not contrived into the form just yet. So it is another little food for contemplation. But Rose, since you have the mic, anything comes up? Or maybe Anthony or Eamon or Ben?Tony? I was just contemplating as you were talking, Kat, I guess what's so lovely about coming here is obviously the opportunity to talk and that there's just something that occurs when you're attempting to directly describe experience. That almost drops you into experience because it's just like a focus or a focusing of energy directly into what's happening.
And attempting to describe exactly what's happening in experience in and of itself drops you in directly into experience? I don't know. It's just an interesting...phenomena that just from trying to explain something despite the fact that to do that you're using concepts and thoughts and all of these things that we paradoxically are saying are the identification with is the problem But it's like you're using the tool to cut apart the machine itself or something. I don't know. It's just an interesting paradox. And the other kind of, yeah, I'm sure I've said this before, but it's almost like there's a self-destruct mechanism in the machinery because the more this becomes the focus of your thoughts, even though I find myself lost in thoughts about non-duality, which is a hilarious thing to find yourself in, but then the fact that you're thinking these thoughts and one of those thoughts will be like, point you back to the reality underlying.
So it's like the pattern itself of which you're identified with slowly becomes conditioned to something which is causing that attachment to fall apart. So there's just this beautiful perfection in how the whole system works when looked at in that sense.Yeah, and I think earlier in the talk you were talking about, again, I can't remember the words, but it was something about kind of just like the perfect expression that this experience is of perfection, I guess. And like how everyone found their way here and all these kind of like weird confluence of events that have occurred, you know, apparently occurred to bring you to a certain point in life.when you just start to look at it directly, it's like, how could it be any other way?
It's just like this. And even reflecting on it is just kind of another part of the dream where it's like, oh, and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened. And it's all just, that's just the thought trying to, push things into a pattern that it can deal with because that's all it's ever done. And then those, yeah, those patterns slowly get shaped to be investigating the underlying nature. And that, yeah, I guess like the spot that I'm at at the moment is it's so hard to distinguish between And it's probably unnecessary because this is already the answer. Beautiful. Between, yes, identification with thought and then this apparent entity that's investigating that.
And I know the answer is that this is a thought that's coming in, taking me away from it. So I guess I answered my own question. Yeah. Though, yeah, there's just constant apparent paradoxes in identity because... There's just this momentum of attempting to attach identity to something, which I can feel kind of always there, attempting to push back.in it's like oh i saw through this attachment but it's just so-called emotion or i saw through this and then it's like okay well what's the this this drive apparent drive to attach to something else every single time that i guess can only ever be seen through in this moment Please.
Wow. That's brilliant. Yeah, really interesting stuff because that's where, you know, endless thoughts come out of endless thoughts, don't they? It's like I'm going to find it, I'm going to look, you know, I'm going to see through the apparent veil. All that stuff, I kept me saying that about Bob describes the difference between the beingness and the thinking about it sort of thing. And we always think, oh, I feel so disturbed about this. I've just got to get back to the beingness now. Find that or see through this illusion and then you've got to you know you've got to ask who's trying to find it or who's going to see through the illusion um it's like trying to find find your way you know i think bob will we all say that The beingness is there and the thoughts arise in that.
But we're looking for something that hasn't been lost anyway. You know, we're looking, trying to be.find something and it's that very trying to find something that is the cause of the distress in a way that it's just oh it's just it just is there's nothing there that needs to be found because there's nothing that's really been lost I don't have to get back to anything because I am that anyway, you know. It's sort of letting the thinking go down in a way. Eight words. Beyond words, beyond mind, just being, full stop. Beautiful. Ten. Job done. And then realize that the next thought is just a thought.
We have those cards in which we have another four R pointers. They're all on R because it's easy to remember. Relax. You're not the doer. There's nothing to do. Relax. Now, if there is still a persistent suffering there, reflect. Reflect on it. Who's doing it? Have a look. And then resonate the pointers being offered. If there is resonation, because again, there is an often question asked in the meeting, okay, but you know, if there is no doer, who is to do investigation? It's a smart ask. You want to be right? Okay.Well, resonation is again spontaneous activity that happens. Even if between a couple of guitars or ukuleles sitting in the same room, you strike one and then the other may resonate.
So this is what happens. The pointer comes up from here, from here, from anywhere. If it causes resonation, where do you need the doer? Who is the doer speaking? Who is the doer investigating? Who is the doer hearing it? It's just spontaneous resonation. And then the last R pointer is recognize. And Bob wanted recognize, make it gold. Recognition is also spontaneous, it's also no one does it. No one does the investigation, although initially it feels like the dream character does it. But as the investigation goes deeper, the realization is that there is only one power called omnipotence that does everything. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, investigating, everything.
There's only one. There's no separate me that starts and then dissolves. There never was one. Makes it very, very simple. So whatever the concept starts you on the path, whatever the concept makes you look or do, whatever, It's going to get discarded. Initially, just get on with it, ignore it, whatever. It doesn't matter. Because all those separate me's come up and disappear during the day, you know.Me, I should do this. I've got to go shopping tomorrow. I shouldn't have done that stuff or I need to polish the car. I'm a good bloke having a great time today. Oh, no, I'm miserable. Everything's going wrong. I'm unhappy.
All those different needs come and go during the day. It's just like a different overcoat you might put on for a little while and then another one and another one. Beautiful. And that is a great offering for the resonation because, you know, people may hear you speak and they can just check it with themselves. How is it? Oh, yeah, that makes total sense. That resonates. And then it brings a different quality to daily life of actually recognizing and watching. Oh, shit, you know. There is a different coat of a different persona, a different mask or a different mood or a different whatever. And what Lucky was saying, I also love that one.
And that Bob also loved in the Zoom meetings, in the interactions, when, or even we have here sometimes on Facebook, people ask a question and they start narrating the answer. And now, now that answer is truly valid. It is spontaneously arising. It is being discovered in the same system that came up with it. It's the intelligence that brings it up and brings the resolution straight away. And again, the offering. To resonate is so powerful.Because you didn't come up with it. It wasn't you. It was that one life speaking. And that one same life is speaking through every doubt as well. But it is speaking clearly through the clarity when it shows up.
And we have a comment here from Gilbert who says, wait for the noise. Okay. The dream of awakening, spiritual seeking, can never be awakening. The actuality. Very good point. Yeah. The dream of awakening can never be an awakening. In reality, I mean the dream is a dream, it's a vision, it's a mental projection, it's what's not happening. If you dream to awaken, the presumption is already that you are not, but I'll read further. The dream of awakening, spiritual seeking can never be awakening the actuality. The dreamer cannot wake up. That's impossible. Seeing this truth silences the mind for a moment. In that moment, timeless awareness is clear and obvious.
That's beautiful. That is beautifully good. Can you see that the dream of awakening, if I am a spiritual seeker attempting to awaken, then the presumption is first that I am here as a person, that there is something to achieve in future, that I will become it.sometime and those are all misconceptions i'm locked up in the cloud of confusion in the mind well there's still no me but there is just a cloud of confusion completely making it completely impossible to see the current of current reality in which the presence awareness shining of its own glow is already here clear and obvious timeless awareness is clear and obvious when that clouding mind with the concepts of the future time in which the I become enlightened or achieve that supreme state, all that shit story, all that horrible dream of everything but not this, as it is, this rejection, this rejection of this present moment, fighting the reality as it is, all that confusion, when that one is stopped, And Gilbert says, seeing this truth, it silences the mind for a moment.
It just stops.in that store. You can't deny the awareness of presence or presence of awareness. You can't deny it. It's here. It's shining of its own light. What clouds it, what obscures it, is the idea. Not this, not now. Some more pleasurable state in the future for me. Can't happen.Did you want to say something else? Yeah, something that I've been watching lately. On one hand, the stupidity that usually follows some sort of emotion, anxiety, frustration, something like that. And that leads to further obscurity. And then there's an example that comes up. Of exactly what happens when you just stop interfering. You realize that everything you've done is pretty stupid.You just watch what's happening.
And an example of this is, I went to, I took my wife with me to a cinema in Carlton, the Nova Cinema, and it usually shows a lot of sort of avant-garde type films. And I had this vision of a 20-foot sign up in a space where it was visible. And it was just something completely imaginary.And I managed to park in an obscure street in Carlton because there wasn't much parking. And I couldn't find the actual address. It was leading you into a shopping mall. And there was levels of... Stair elevators and lifts that you had to negotiate. And my wife is struggling to walk, so she's got a walking stick and sometimes a walker.And so she couldn't go up the escalators because they were too fast and she just could not balance.
And we couldn't get the right lift because to get up to where we wanted to go, you had to go up a certain lift or go back down to the bottom and then come up. So then we managed somehow to get to the cinema and the right seat and the right row and everything. And watched the film and it was quite an enjoyable film. Now, where did I park the car? Well, I think we went that way because we came around that way and then we spoke to someone and she said, oh, you just go down there a little bit further. And that didn't work.
And I had to walk back the other way in the opposite direction. So sort of by that point, I'd just about given up. And then this... This young woman, fairly young, in her 30s, I guess, she just knocked off. It was about 9 o'clock, a bit later. Just knocked off from Melbourne University.when she's doing this course. And she struck up a conversation with my wife in the middle of an intersection. Because in those streets where you've got traffic on one side and traffic divided road traffic on the other side. So Shereek could get about halfway. On the green light and then she got the red light so she had to stop in the middle of the intersection.
And this young woman had walked up to her and struck up, stopped with her, realised she was fairly incapacitated and struck up a conversation. So I'd walked down the other road, down the other way for two or three hundred metres and then realised it was the wrong street, walked back. And then this young woman had a plan and she said, what about if I walk down this way and walk back? Which she did, and then she couldn't find the vehicle.Well, maybe you could go this way and then we could check out that way and down there in Elgin Street, we might have parked there when you got confused going around and around and around, ever diminishing circles.
And then she went down there, came back about five minutes later, running back, and said, yeah, I found your vehicle. It's down there around the corner. And you think, how could that have happened? And the only way it could have happened is if you just stop. Bob used to say, full stop. But if things are not working to your idea of how things are, and you've been proven to be wrong on all these accounts, Just stop. Okay. Go along with this young woman. And, you know, she goes straight to the, solve the problem.So we gave her a lift back to Collingwood where she lived. But things have been happening like that just about every day.
Whatever you're, you know, of mice and men, wasn't it? John Steinbeck. Whatever your plans are, Forget it. Can you say some more about bull stuff? I've seen that in his books and things. Can you say some more about that? Yeah. Ah, this one. Oh, you want to... No, that's all right. No, I said so many takes. And it's that simple, isn't it? Yeah. So just get the mic. But just in Ross's example, I suppose we get things aren't going our way, something seems to be... Lost and we can't find the car or I had that same problem last week, had this computer problem, I couldn't get onto the internet.
I was trying this, that, the other, going into the settings and, you know, trying to work out what was wrong and I was getting really frustrated about it. I was meant to be going out to see a movie too with someone. And I thought, no, I've got to solve this first. And I thought, no, look, just go and see the movie.Don't even think about it. And then I got back home and I thought, no, leave the computer alone. You'll just get upset and frustrated again. And I thought, no, just have one more little go. Just 15 minutes, then I'll go to bed if it hasn't worked out.
I got on the computer and did something and then it came up with network settings, blah, blah, blah, fix. I went, okay, fix. And it started doing something. Then it said reboot and I rebooted and it all came good. And I thought, why hadn't I found that before? But it's like, just shut up, let the mind go. Some stage it'll get better, it'll work out. But the full stop thing is trying to find it with the mind and going on and on about some story or going on and on about the computer or some... Upset with some person, okay, full stop, let it go, just full stop.
But... Yeah, let it go, or pause, you can say pause, or you can say surrender. Yeah, but then the mind comes up, but, you know, what about the... Full stop, again, just stop. Yeah, beautiful. You could also say... Leave it as it is. Leave it as it is. Leave it as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Because the truth is, you know, like if the one, the very, the only, the only one idea that is to be really comprehended, fully accepted and approved by the mind, is that...idea that the mind can't get it can't can't it isn't that it is very very difficult and the mind has to keep trying no it is absolutely impossible it can't the non-duality cannot be grasped by the division tool which is dualistic thinking it cannot ever attempting to grasp it with the mind is bound to fail because it is non-conceptual awareness and mind is all about conceptualization so to say full stop is to say to mind shut up pause pause or surrender or just leave it let it go leave it unaltered unmodified uncorrected anything that will just halt this computer for a moment just like Gilbert was saying Seeing the truth silenced the mind for a moment.
In that moment, timeless awareness is clear and obvious. It's self-evident. It doesn't need thinking. The aliveness doesn't need thinking. Cats don't think, they're alive. Babies, they don't think, they're alive. The aliveness is there when the thought is paused, when this conceptualization, that dark cloud production machine, is surrendered or is stopped or is let go of or is paused.Or as left as it is, just the attention doesn't go there anymore. The presence awareness is self-evident, is clear and obvious. The existence is undeniably here. Yeah, but it is a good reminder always to just stress on that full stop. Yay! What's wrong with right now? If you don't think about it, that's another way of saying full stop.
Or pause it. Or just... Bob would say, let the thought ride on the breath. You're taking a breath in, the thought comes in, you're inspired by the thought, just breathe it out. And in the little gap before the next inspiration, there is a gap. And in that gap, there is nothing ever wrong. It doesn't mean that there is a controller that has to keep the gap, that has to keep stopping the mind, that has to... No, no, no, there's no one there. But this moment of respite is the moment that can reveal that the aliveness, the life, the everything, the spontaneous functioning is still going on.
So the conceptualization, the mind is just an overlay. It's just a constructed reality casted on the top of that which exists spontaneously and naturally with or without that layer of interpreting. So it is prior to the mind. Mind may or may not appear. It really doesn't matter.Thinking it may or may not be there. It really doesn't matter. The moment of revelation is there is an existence and I am that existence prior. To the mind coming up and saying oh yeah i'm here the world is there i'm separate from the world i'm separate from other people i'm i am this that and the other and this i know because i remember or what someone told me prior to all that there is an existence and i am that existence How do I know I'm that existence?
Yeah, try and stop. Try not being. Try not being. Try it. Just try it. That's a point, a pointer, I suppose, to ask the absolute. Where's the absolute? Everywhere. I'll come up and tell you exactly where to go. Yeah, on the absolute. Go that way. I was just having a casual glass of wine at something like this, a memorial service. And this young guy was... Describing nothingreally specific, but he was talking about how he educates his daughters. And apparently they're very creative girls that play music. And he said, yeah, the... The potential for the creativity in all around us is always here and you can feel it.
You can feel it through sensations. You can feel it in the hairs standing up on your skin. As the creativity that's just constantly surrounding you, trying to get out. And he said, look at my arms. He had dark hair like Lucky and the hairs on his arms were standing on him. He was describing this as the potential of the energy surrounding us constantly. As the absolute.Get out and create. And that was recognized as those moments of leaving things unmodified, uncorrected, unchanged. It's all happening in silence and it's all... Undescribable yet potentially alive.Yeah, that takes us really to the end of our session today. Thank you for being with us and participating and actually noticing how much it brings back the joy back to the heart.
If you focus on that, which is the source of all focus, it just, it naturally brings joy, doesn't it? Thank you.