This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Sim. Sim. John. John. Cliff. Dave. Cliff. Lockie. Lockie. Ross. There's Black and next to him. Brenda. Michael. I was waiting for it. Only on Christmas Eve they talk. And welcome everyone. I managed to actually get some success on the invitation of having someone to give us a spill. And I hope they will do the honors. Off you go. Hi, welcome everyone. I don't have anything to say. I don't have anything to say. So, it's quite interesting because this is applicable to everyone. There's no exemption to this, but you really don't know the next word that's going to come out. You don't know the next thought, the next feeling, the next...
But you can all confirm that there's an appearance. Something is appearing. There's no denial of that. And Bob and Kat and many people point and describe it in many different ways. This body is going to describe it in whatever way it's going to be. And I had no idea what that's going to look like and appear like, and it's probably going to be muddled and confused and awkward and... Or whatever, you know, and it just... That's the appearance.appearing in that particular pattern, in that particular way. And, you know, this is a meeting of non-duality, you know, and non-duality is all about that one essence, that undeniable one essence that is patterning, shaping, forming, as an infinitesimal array of people, thoughts, experiences, feelings, emotions, objects, past, present, futures, but all in this immediacy, all appearing like there is nothing outside of it.
So all your problems, all your concerns, everything is always, always like so immediate. You can't drag a second ago, you can't live a moment in the future, like it's always this. And when you look at when you're first born or when you're first memory or whatever it is, it was always now. It was always this, always. And this is this. And what does that actually mean? I mean, you know, there's a whole, there's an appearance, so I'll just call it an appearance. And the appearance exists of a world of people, of places, of things, of universes, of birth and death, and living and growing and learning and acquiring and amassing and looking and searching and seeking.
And it's like this energy of seeking that's...very sort of primal, like it starts just, it just starts on its own. Like everything's doing itself on its own, but this is, it starts on its own as a feeling or a sense of individualization, separation of being a me and a him and a her and a that and a this. And all of a sudden, There's this seeming energy to try and get something, to try and find this fulfillment, this sense of longing to like, you know, whatever you want to call it, coming home or a sense of something that's missing. So many people can describe this missingness by what they're looking for.
And it can be in anything. It can be in material things, it can be in spiritual things, it can be in so many different ways. And yet, everything... So back to the, like, this is the appearance. This is how the, this is just, and this is just a description of an appearance. And no description of the appearance can be the right description, because there are eight billion descriptions that can describe this. So which one's right? My one. Of course. Well, so we can listen well, because this is the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.But, you know, like, and it's, and what is that based around?
It's based around this assumption, this belief, this sort of acquired sense of an energy of there's an individual person that's residing in this body that's got this free will and choice and that's learning and growing and is destined to die, pretty much. And in that, that sense can find that, by gathering, amassing and acquiring different things, it can sort of find its own way back to that sense, that loss, that feeling of, you know, something's missing, something's not right. Whether it's within me or the world, because everything, me is a subject and object. So that sense of me automatically creates this separation, this sense that there's a me and there's a you and there's a world.
And there's all the shit that goes on as well. And all the beauty and all the magic and all I want is the good stuff. Because, you know... That's what I want. That's going to provide me with a sense of fulfillment, a sense of peace, a sense of future, like joy. Wholeness, I can find wholeness in a relationship. I'll just find the perfect partner and then I'll beor the perfect house, or the perfect community, the perfect place, the perfect working environment, the perfect success, and then fulfillment and completeness and wholeness. Will reign supreme. Hallelujah. But the wholeness, so back to this appearance, the wholeness is already whole.
It's absolutely whole. It can't be other because Isn't it obvious that this is what it is? It's not something other than what it is, it's bloody what it is. And you can talk about it and argue that it shouldn't be, but it is. And the appearance of that would be this appearing as as a thought that it shouldn't be. And does that make sense? So that is included as the appearance. It's not separate from the appearance. The thought that it shouldn't be this is still this, appearing as a thought that shouldn't be this. So the thisness or this appearance or this now or this immediacy or this moment is absolutely undeniable.
No matter which way you come across it or which way you try and sort of analyze it or examine it or...Anything, any, any, how can you get out of, it is always this. It's always media, it's always now, it's always present. And this present moment is, the magnificence of this is, it's absolutely timeless. The timelessness of it, it's just, wow. So there's an idea of time, which is another appearance in this immediacy. So the whole idea of my past and my future and all that can only ever exist in this instant. This instant. This instant. And there's no moments of instances. There's only the same instant, if you like to say, or there's one instant and that is it.
And it's always that. And it's the first instant that you can remember, the first memory that you ever had, was this instant. The Big Bang is this instant. And there's nothing other. So all the appearances are appearing in this instant. And not outside of this instant, because there is nothing outside of it. Try and... You can't get outside this instant. So there is no outside or inside, really. And this appearance is so remarkably like...I don't know the word for it, but... Convincing. Yeah, like the convincingness of the story, of my story, of the story of me, the journey of me, the hero's journey, the tragedy, the drama, the intrigue, all of it.
There's a sense of, this individual sense of me is...There's something infused in it, like a specialness, that it is unique. And it is, because everything is unique. Everything in the appearance, there is no identical in the appearance. The appearance is an unfolding of uniqueness. But the individual takes it as like a special. With a bit of investigation and meditation and God's grace. It's seen as it just doesn't, it's not true, it's not real. And yet the appearance is not going to stop appearing. Or it's an appearance. And underneath or behind, it's like, what is this appearance appearing to appear on? What is it appearing on?
What are you, what's looking now? What is the appearance? What is it appearing on? It's just so you don't, can anyone answer that? Like can anyone, does anyone know that? Of what it is appearing on? You can't really know what it is, but you know that it's, you can't deny it.It is. And you can't deny that your being or aliveness or life itself is the same moment, it's the same instant. It is, the explosion of life itself is that instant. They're not separate things. So the livingness, the life, the intelligence energy is all so immediate and so spontaneous. I might just pause for a second.
I reckon the next... Like the words that just come out, you know, and I'm not talking like these are like unique words or special words. It's the same. It's the same for everyone. No one is exempt from this. No one knows what the next word or the next thought is going to be. And there's no difference right now. And, you know, it's really fascinating watching the mind, watching all the permutations, the combinations, what you like sometimes in machinery. How it works and how it is absolutely automatic. There's no one doing it. And it's just so fascinating. To watch the oneIs there a watcher? And is there a watcher watching the watcher?
Is there an observer observing the observer? Is there a grand observer observing the observer who's observing the... You know, like it's not really like that. It's so... So within the observation, no one's doing the observation, but somehow in some sort of observation, in this immediacy, there's an observation, and in that observation it can be sort of seen that the machinery is working and doing its thing on its own. There are patterns that are, there's like some software and wiring and... synapses, firing, and neurology, and biology, and environment, and infinite factors. The whole universe is actually conspiring to create the next thought, to create the next movement, to create the next everything.
And, wow, like, I can't explain.for whom this appears for, because there isn't a whom, it just appears this way, and I'm just describing it, but in that observation and that appearance, it unravels itself, like it undoes, it is so, you realise that, but there's no realiser, it's just realised, it's like it realising itself as itself, as being timeless, and as having no autonomy or actually free will, because it's doing its thing, and the whole of creation is doing its thing, and it's all being done in the same instant. And wow, isn't that, that just blows. Your mind, like people talk about virtues of being grateful or being humble or being this or being that and cultivating these activities and practices and all of them, all included, and yet just the seeing itself.
Actually just brings, like, you'll find that the nature of the machinery, once it's seen as machinery, there's just like awe and humility and gratitude in a sense. I'm not claiming that there's ungrateful and there's awe and none of that rubbish. I'm just saying that like once all the bullshit is seen through, all the machinations of the mind and sort of, you know, seen as machinations, seen as mechanical structures,influenced by infinity, by everything and nothing, then who are you? What are you? How are you? Is there a you as such? No, there's just the one essence, having, shaping, forming, moving this hand, speaking these words, producing the next thought.
And then the good shit starts to happen. And it's fun. Then it becomes light. Or not. It becomes heavy. Because that's an appearance. And the appearance is so... There is no predictability. Just because I explain watching machinations and seeing the mind movement, it doesn't mean that you know what's going to happen next or there is a knower of something that's going to happen next. Life is so amazing. So whatever is... There's no prediction of it. There's no actual knowing in that sense of... Of intellectual kind of grasping of this. And yet the intellectual grasping appears as the appearance on this, in this instant. And everything is appearing in this instant.
So any ideas about it, any formulations, any... So even speaking about this now,Someone might be resonating or listening or saying, oh, this makes sense, and bang, all these concepts are built upon the sense that there's a me, and the sense that there's a me that knows something, there's a me that resonates with something, there's a me that's got something, bang, there's another beautiful story. And it just happens on its own so easily, so naturally. No one's really doing it. Yeah, it's just in the Lord.Probably just pause, it's been way over five minutes. Thanks for listening. Thanks to you. Yeah, that was absolutely beautiful. Beautiful, that's what the introduction is about.
Just run over the whole landscape. And bring back the reminders, you know? And you could feel in your own system, you could resonate that, yeah, right, of course, yes, he's describing the experience. And your experience isn't much different, isn't it? You don't know what you're going to think next. You don't know what you're going to feel next. And the fact that you don't know is already a liberation. Because now any need or any sense of editing it or programming it or controlling it is obliterated. Because it is all magic, it's all surprise. So, okay, let me see. Let me discover. But who is the me who discovers?
Who gives a shit? It is like one big field of a surprising curiosity in which life is unfolding in a way that is absolutely magical. Because, yes, it doesn't mean that the earthquake will not come. Or that your loved one is not going to die or leave or do whatever. It doesn't mean anything at all. But without the projections, without the fears projected and the relationship,to the imagined self, which if you look, you can't find anyway. There's no one there. If you look who is looking, what do you find? And even grasp it. Some people find the sense of fear, oh my gosh, maybe I'm devoid.
But that's a thought. The experience is prior to thought, the non-conceptual experience of that is just Just complete openness. Nothing can be said about it, can't be grasped. But the beauty of that, of those type of explorations is that no one has to tell you what's your own experiences. We can ask and share and anyone can say, how does it feel? You know, to actually be exposed to that and to resonate with that and what resonates the most, what is the most obvious, most prominent, what sits with you. You know, like Bob would have usually, the spiel would be just like whatever, 50 or 100 pointers or 20 pointers, depends on.
How he felt. And then some of them would just feel like, ah, fit the hand like a glove. Yes. And others would not sit around. But every pointer doesn't have to land. It's enough if one actually sits right.They are all just descriptions. None of the description is ever described. None of the labels or the words are what it is pointing to. None of the map is ever the territory. So Bob would say, word is not a thing. Obviously, no one can drink the word water. Obviously, when we talk awareness, we talk consciousness, we talk the Buddha nature, or no mind, or mind, or self, or no self, or omnipresence.
They're just labels. People may like some of them, may resonate with others, may hate yet another label. Some may find really helpful, some may find others confusing. But what's your truth? How does that sit with you? What is clear in your system when you look in and, oh yeah, you know, like people sometimes say, well, you know, all the emotions still come up. The mind still goes on the trip, still goes on the imagination. At night it still drinks. But it doesn't, it's not as sticky. It doesn't stay that long. It is the investigation, especially when there is exposure to this pointing, the investigation kicks in of its own.
Hey, wait a minute, Bob would say, this idiot says there is no self, let me look again. And then the looking again happens. Nobody does that. Nobody made that thought come up at this particular moment.It's just somehow, magically, the exposure brings the pointer up spontaneously. And if the pointer is charged, and there is, because that one always helps, the love for that truth, the love for the freedom. That very love is a propelling force that makes that pointer charged and makes the looking happen again. Okay, so who is it happening to? No, I'm there. It's just happening. Okay, so there is narrative going or monologue going in the head.
Who is speaking? No, I'm there. It's just speaking. Amazing. Now you may even enjoy the speaking, enjoy the monologue, instead of suppressing it, pushing it down. Hmm, wow, entertaining. But then, as the attention is withdrawn, the investment is withdrawn from that activity, It just dies because nothing can live without the energy. If the attention is now in the field of noticing, not like Dean was saying, not someone observing something, no, just pure registering, or Bob would call it cognizing emptiness. The whole emptiness suffused with the capacity of sentence, of cognizing, through the vehicle of the body, it appears.Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, naturally. That's how the emptiness translates through that transformer into seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
Without it, of course, it can't see, it doesn't have an instrument. But it is still the cognizing emptiness experiencing itself through the body. So the magic display is right now, always right now. The memory, again, beautiful, also appears right now. The past appears right now. The sense of self, that cage of concepts to which we relate as I, the past, the me of memory, Bob would call it, appears right now.And all of that, the whole miracle of the appearance, It's only now. And it's never going to be the same again. That's the call for a celebration of a miracle of the appearance. Rather than for the misery of, oh, I don't want it this way.
It shouldn't be that. I shouldn't feel that. I should experience the big enlightenment state of permanent ecstasy forever and ever. That is part of the appearance. That is part of the dream appearing within that space, within that miraculous presence that is there, that aliveness. What a dream! I remember dreaming that dream of looking for the enlightenment. Do you remember that? Looking for the enlightenment. I remember you said you're going to be a hermit. Leave the society, buy the house in the forest, close the door, never have any visitors there, just contemplate, find that thing. You can't find it, it's never been hidden. I went into a tree hollow and I said I'm not coming out till, you know, this is the end.
I can't do it. Yes, so I think we have a couple of comments. Silence speaks, says Dan when you were speaking. Beautiful. And lots of love from Jimmy, says Nelson. And Catherine confirmed the sound was all right. And do you can't hear properly? I don't know. So is the sound all right or is it not all right? Some say that it is, some say that it isn't. I think I'll just put it in and out. Yeah, I'll just put it in and out just to be sure.And we're going to invite you guys to just... Some pointers, because, you know, the point is the exploration. So if you actually voice what's true for you, not only you reinforce it within yourself, you discover what comes out.
But it may also serve as a little reminder that will play somewhere else in some other vehicle because Resonation is a mysterious thing. I remember when I was coming to Bob's meetings, and I could hear some of the pointers from him, but not the others. But they were guys who were seekers, who were actually confessing that, look, Bob, He's speaking gibberish. I don't understand shit of what you're saying. But he would reiterate or put, paraphrase one of his pointers just to find clarity and it would click here. Sometimes, you know, hearing someone with a young clarity or with still seeking, paraphrasing a pointer to deeper the investigation may actually be on the right wavelength.
But of course, it isn't really an endeavor to save anyone from any hell or any suffering because there isn't.anyone anywhere but the exploration is really rewarding it's really it's really lifting when the energy is not blown into that habitual man-made drama of me that can't be found. Anyone? Here you go. Thanks, thanks, Dane. That was very enlightening. It's always good to come back to what is. And I think what you were saying about now is particularly striking. It made me think about now. That was something... That struck me early about non-duality was that phrase that Bob used to like so much, which is on one of the books, but what's wrong with right now without thinking about it or without a thought?
And it really struck me that there's no other time. But now and it's always now it's always been now and always will be now so to speak but um and that's the thing is that now isn't a point in time it it is the ultimate reality and time exists in the now all other points intime are conceptual ideas which occur in the now. So people say, I must live in the now, or I must get back to now, living now. And you can't get back to it because you are it. It's always now. There's nothing to get back to. You can think about the future, you can worry about it, or you can think about the past and regret it, but all that is only happening in the now.
So I think Bob used to like saying you can't live five seconds in the future or you can't live five seconds in the past. Give it a try and you can't do it because it's always now. And all my problems were about the future and regrets about the past and guilt about the past. And yet they're all ideas in the mind. So the only thing you have to fear is the contents of your imagination, which is another point here that really all my problems are thoughts that are occurring in the now. And they're not there all the time. They come and they go. They have no independent reality apart from thinking about it.So the nature of our problems is our thoughts.
And those thoughts by themselves are no real problem in themselves, except they refer to what I think I am, which is me, which is this story about a person that was born, has had all these so-called happenings happen. And will die at some stage in the future, but all those are just conceptual ideas too, occurring in the now. So the thing that I was running from was from myself and my thoughts and fears and desires and whatever, which were all just mental concepts. Occurring in the present moment and now it's really interesting that you think you've got I think about all these things I've got to do and I've got to do this and then I've got to do that and what about this problem I've got to speak to someone about tomorrow and then I realized I've lost my phone somewhere.
And all that stuff just disappeared. And it was all about finding the phone and getting the phone back. So you can see how these conceptual problems can be replaced by another conceptual problem in a flash. Did you find it? I did find it, luckily. I'd left it at home.I'm going to retrace my movements and all that. Anyway, it turned up. So, yeah, like most dramas, they come and they go. And that's life. Yeah, I thought I had something else to say, but it's gone now. Anyone else will have a go. Yeah, you want to say something? He's gone. He's gone now. Yeah. Beautiful to feel things, Dean.
And that idea of like whatever it is, whether it's seeking or whatever is popping up now. Because this morning I had a beautiful meditation where I was just completely... blissful, joyful, no sense of self. And then coming out of it, all of a sudden, there's this big, I get a text, and there's this big me, kind of upset and offended and worried and thinking of how to respond. It's quite funny. To go from one extreme to the other. And it's difficult, too, to remember, like, it's Bob's point. It's uncorrected, unmodified, unaltered. It is that. But when you're lost in it, it's like you're in a storm.
You're always there in the center. The eye of the storm is always there. That's always there. It's like it's hidden by the... It doesn't take long to come back to it, but it's just...That's a really hard thing to get, isn't it? But that's it too. Yes. When you're lost in it. Yes. That's it too. The coming and the going and the losing it and then getting it and the storm and the calm and everything is that. Everything is actually whole and complete except... The thought that saying it should be other. It shouldn't be like this. Hang on, I was in deep meditation. I was in perfect place.
How can my vibrational energy change from this to this in one message? And that shouldn't be like that because I'm creating peace and equanimity. All these are ideas. It's already whole and complete. With all the appearance and every aspect of it and the sharp changing facets of it and the unpredictability of the madness and the chaos and the serenity and all within a couple of minutes. A second, yeah. I just have a question. So is that what we mean when you say there's no free will? Can you clarify what is free will and no free will at all? No. You see, both would answer it in this way.
The question about free will is secondary. The primary question, is there anybody here who could have it?or not have it whether it is free will or is ego or is volition or is anything because if there is no one there and there is a free will who would have it but you can see and this was beautiful what Michael said and Dean expanded on you know we are nature just like in nature unpredictably the text message comes and there is an inner volcano erupting or earthquake coming and shattering the whole body is completely you know shaken by it who you know like even the response to the situation It's not something that you can choose.
Of course, allegedly, you go to some program or the other, 12-step, you train your mind, you discipline your mind, you just prepare or even go to therapy, self-control. Yes, you meditate. Even that, even that, to actually have or not have the self-control, you first have to have spontaneous incentive coming from life. You know, like you're practicing Buddhism, meditation, and the right actions, right words, right things, right that. Even to actually be able to apply those things, you need the incentive, you need the urge coming from within. What if it doesn't come? Even the pre-programmed responseIt's like, for example, I'm training my mind to every time when someone attacks me, I will first pause for 10 seconds and then I'll take three deep breaths and then I will look for the, you know, how could I cause it and all that.
It's the software, it's the program. To have it installed. You need the thought which you couldn't think because it depends on the environment. If you were born in a different country, in a different culture, in a different religion, it wouldn't have happened. So even the mind training and the predetermined responses, the discipline has to be installed. And for that to happen, there has to be the whole world conspiring. Can you see that? That even you know like you have let's say you have the mind discipline and you are well trained to always you know break the pattern or pause and observe the sensations and vibration instead of erupt When the sensations happen, you don't know how strong they will be, you don't know, but you respond to them in a way like, okay, like what happened to Michael?
Ah, that's interesting. Buzzing. To even respond in this way, there is an illusion that I'm choosing it.But to even have that option possible, it had to be installed in the software of the machine. Otherwise, it wouldn't have happened. Can you see that? No. Okay, so, you know, okay, just dwell in the question, because it is really, it's going to be a really big deal to be able to see that. You know, when you have, in which situation you feel that you have free will? Sorry, Michael. Michael, you see? Yeah, it's an interesting question about free will. And I think that, you know, we...We often think we've got free will to tackle, you know, programmed thinking, I suppose, you know, like an addiction.
You know, I've had experience with that myself, that, you know, that you feel the compulsion to act a certain way or to do a certain thing or consume something or other whenever you get stressed and this pattern gets laid down fairly strongly. And at some stage you go, no, no, I'm not going to follow the pattern. I'm going to repress that pattern and I'm going to do something different. And you do something different and you think this is great. But then suddenly the pattern comes back again and you think you've chosen to go back into it. But really the only way I think. Well, to get out of it is to realize that you don't have any power over that pattern, how it occurs or when you succumb to it or when you resist it.
That just, that happens itself. And then you go, oh, I've got free will to choose or not to choose it. But you can't be consistent in that because it changes all the time. The only way is to step out of the chain and watch, be observant of how that pattern is occurring. You know, whether you do this or whether you do that. And you really start to realizethat the power doesn't lie in the thinking because, you know, what we see here is even the idea that you can think one way or another is just a thought too, like the thinking happens just like the weather changes as...
You have no power over that. You have no power over the thinking or the thoughts. When you think, oh, I'm the one that's seeing. I'm the one that's hearing. I'm the one that's thinking. And all those are really just thoughts. All those things are happening anyway. And then... There is will, but it does not belong to you. There's no person that has the free will, but the will to change that might come up and might well change just like that. But it's not you that's done it. I think there was an early one I said to Bob that... I was trying to give up coffee and I told him I was trying to give up coffee and he said, well, if there's anybody that gives up drinking coffee, it won't be you.
He's putting the muzz on me. He's saying it won't be you doing it, but he was right. Oh, that was beautiful. I think it's a Nisargadatta quote where he says, where there's a sense of self, there'll be a sense of free will. So free will exists, but where there's no sense of self, there's no free will. I think that's Nisargadatta.But just from a very practical point of view, like do you know what the next sound is that you're going to hear? What's the next sound, for example, you're going to hear? Can you ever know? Okay, now what about the next thought? What's your next thought going to be?
Can you ever know? Even though we can't know our next thought or as you say, I suppose it's in the long term, say I've got a bad temper and so the energy in me is reactive. I have a hot liver. The temper comes up easily. But knowing that, so I've taken herbs and whatever to counter that, to cool the liver and what, and over time, the energy changes physically and then it changed, well, the whole you know, what you are, you know, becomes better. You're not so prone to just losing your temper. And it's something at, well, I suppose when you look at it, it's as you are more aware of yourself, your body, whatever, and you're not thinking, it's just being aware of your body, it does change.And we're saying that it's not me that's doing it.
Yeah, no. Is it the... Well... It's the consciousness, isn't it? It's... Yeah, it's... It's the awareness that... It's the presence that is here. You can say, is this my presence? But does it have any boundary that you say, this is here mine and this outside is not mine? See how the whole world observing the body, observing the impulses, having noticed certain reactivity, having the ideas how to remedy certain activity, all is happening within that field of knowing or the consciousness that you can say is mine, but what is not yours? The whole world appears in your consciousness. So it all appears within that field of being, knowing.
But is it any separate me inside that you could say that I am here and I'm somewhere? Well, it appears like there is a person making that decision that, oh, I want to change my temper. Of course. Yeah, it appears as the thought. Yes. But did you think that thought? Did you choose that thought? Could you not have it? Could this thought not appear? Could you do anything for that thought to not exist, to not come in?existence you wouldn't have a choice about that would you no no so it's spontaneously appearing and it's beautiful if you if you have that you know that heightened capacity to be aware of the patterns and then because there is the heightened awareness they resolve themselves quicker that's definitely more pleasant dream than people who are just you know living in their stories all the time but even that resolving of the noticed patterns life brings up spontaneously If you didn't have that heightened awareness of all this reactivity, if one element was different, if there was more stress in your life, for example, if there was different genetic makeup or different environment, you would be working in a different environment, that capacity wouldn't come up.
And that resolution wouldn't be available. It's not on you, it is on the universe that has provided even that inspiration. It's like Bob would say, give credit where credit is due. It's all that energy, that life essence that is beating your heart, that life essence bringing the next thought. That life essence bringing the recognition that, oh, this pattern isn't optimal. And bringing the resolution, oh, it will be more optimal if that happens.All those thoughts are just part of the whole display, just like the weather. And of course, you know, life is much smoother if there is more of that presence, because this reactivity you can only acknowledge and notice if you are present.
If you were lost in the story of the past or future, you have missed it. So you have quality problems. Congratulations. But I might just... You go. No, no, no. That's all right. It's okay. I'm off the camera. That's all right. No, it's okay. You go. Even the liver tonic that helped calm the system, like the decision to take, like the liver tonic was developed a thousand years ago and passed, there are so many cultures and doctors and literature and passed it on and all of a sudden, You found it in your hands. You found the understanding that there is a tonic that's going to do this and that.
Who did that? Everything did that. Everything, the whole world conspired to give you that answer, to give you that thing that altered, but also, like, And it altered the temper, the heat in the liver. And all of a sudden, there's a different outlook. Can you be your outlook? Because we can change it again.Again, we can put something else in the food. Can you be the food? Can you be the medicine? We can change the biochemistry in so many different ways. Electrodes and medicine and drugs and the environment in general. So can you be any of those? So everything's working. The decision to take it or not to take it, where did that appear from?
It came. It just appeared. You didn't control it. It appeared. And then to take or not to take, that happened as well. And then the thought on top of that saying, ah, that's my decision and it's the right one, that came on its own too. So that's why it's all an appearance. That's fine. It's a little bit like a thread. Thanks, Dean. Something that Dean said about crawling into a hollow log and contemplating on something reminded me of... The thing that's front and center is this me.But over the apparent years, it seems to have become like a hollow vessel. It's still there. It's occupying that same position.
But it's not taken seriously. It's like the paper towel, the paper towels that has a cardboard core in the middle and it's just sitting there marking the spot more or less. And the belief in the separate individual is nowhere near as strong as what it was.So what has been experienced is that part of this if you like the the core of this cardboard core covered in all the residue of
things and beliefs and the concepts that have been stored around it to make it more appear substantial. That's become now, it's clear that, yeah, this is marking the spot. And it's a complete illusion. It's not real.And it has been experienced within the oneness of everything that all of the beliefs and concepts and everything can just collapse.
Just completely collapsed and it's like Gossamer is insubstantial and it can just completely collapse. And you look back over his shoulder. What was that? What was that? It was absolutely all of those memories from the past. In an instant just seen for what they are and they're just they're nothing they're just dissolving back into the emptinessSo it's much ado about nothing. And then there's what's left. What's left is everything. And the peace, the peace that passeth understanding. Instead of being an imaginary... Persona there, there's the freedom of everything, freedom of this appearance that Dean was illuminating.So it simplifies everything because the one that's front and centre is very complicated.
Very, yeah, very complicated and very smart and knows all this stuff. But he's not satisfied because he wants to know more. It doesn't work that way. It works the opposite way. You know less and less.So. And like Dean was saying, you don't know where your next word is coming from, but you hope maybe someone knows something that's going to be useful, but you don't know. And then when it collapses, then one's really in trouble because there's no answer there either because the one that thinks he knows is a complete illusion.So you get to the point where I think Socrates said that I know nothing. And, yeah, so.
And I'm happy with that. Yeah, and quite content. Yeah, content. Yep. Just on that, who needs to know? Once again, the thinker is a thought. And you think, I need to know this, or I need to get better at this, or I need more awareness, I need more peace in my life, or I need to get control of certain situations. They're all just thoughts about an illusory me that's sort of invented with that thought itself, that there's somebody there that needs to know or needs to get control or needs to change in some way. The thinker is a thought and that thought creates the idea that there is somebody there that it's got to occur for when it's just occurring anyway, as is.
And as Dean was saying, that thought comes up. It needs to.change or something different should happen, which will happen anyway. So when Bob says leave everything uncorrected, unaltered, unmodified, you do nothing. But if the energy that says go and take the liver herb, you don't do it? No, that's beautiful. That's a great question. No. See, it happens. It happens of its own. You don't have to do it. It will happen. Like, do you have to take your next breath? You don't and it happens. Do you have to beat your heart, grow your hair? No, but it happens without you doing. So the next thought also happens without you doing.
You be the space because that's your essential nature is space like sky like awareness. So you are that resting cognizing emptiness and within that the heartbeat arises. The awareness of the body and the reactivity in the body arises. The inspired idea to remedy the activity also spontaneously arises. And the action or the urge to take that tonic also spontaneously arises. And you are the witnessing presence. Aware of what's arising. Oh, heartbeat arose. Oh, the idea of reactivity arose. Hmm, the remedy arose. Ah, I wonder what's going to arise next.Oh, the thought about my son arise next. Interesting. Oh, idea of a chocolate cake arise next.
I wonder what's next. Maybe a music, maybe a sound, maybe another thought. But I am space-like. I am... Quiet stillness that does nothing space leaves everything as it is unaltered unmodified uncorrected it doesn't need to fix the thought it doesn't need to contrive it it doesn't need to choose it it knows it unconditionally accepts everything that arises and it knows that whatever arises will be the most appropriate for the situation always because the body is wired with the program of loving to be so it will always choose that which supports survival and love of being even if that's addiction Temporarily, if it doesn't have better programs, of course, we'll go and get pissed.
But maybe then the situation will change and the inspired idea will come, maybe we will address that reactivity also. But that is space is just cognizing emptiness is just aware is just the witnessing is the presence not me Sitting and watching what's the next thought gonna be no just the open openness of the consciousness Curious what is gonna arise? And oh, look, you really have...wonderful wonderful quality problems of what is arising you can now just look hmm how does that happen how does that idea of a liver tonic came into existence You can see how the whole universe inspired that idea that you even knew that such a possibility even exists.
Wow, now you see the magic of that whole seamless universe acting as one. And appearing as the thought, where what follows the thought is already ready. And no doing of your part because you didn't know that that thought is going to arise. You are the space cognizing emptiness. What a discovery. Wow. Thought. Amazing. If you see the world from that perspective of being that relaxed openness, and you see what you discover next,maybe tons of more wonderful remedies. And the difference, the only difference will be that the narrative that comes and takes credit for it, it was me, it was I, I chose it because I have free will.
All that nonsense of non-duality is bullshit. I'm real, I'm a person, I'm somewhere here, and I have just manufactured the thought. I just managed to create electrical impulses in my brain and the synapses fired and I manufactured that thought and this was my decision, I've done it. That's the only difference, that this nonsense, you'll just laugh at. And the actions are just the same. When you look, and I love when Bob talks about the natural world, because people would come here and say, oh, I can't accept that there is no me because I'll just neglect my family. I won't go to work anymore. I won't look after my children anymore.
Crock of shit. Look at the natural world. Animals are building nests. The birds are sitting on the eggs and they learn how to fly and they improve their skills naturally because they already programmed this way. The loving to be program. So nothing is going to change. If there was something to change the moment you accept the idea that there is no self, that would frankly mean that there was a self before. But that's not what we say.no self, never was one. The illusion of control has been installed as a software in a little child as it had enough vocabulary, enough labels, enough language, started creating symbols and relating it to the symbol of this is a me here.
Only then they come illusion of control that now I can choose what I want. The child with the same activity of grabbing something colorful and ringing does the same activity automatically, spontaneously and naturally. And now the narrative comes as I have chose it. I have done it. And over the years, day in, day out, it is repeated. The self-hypnosis of me taking credit for actions is constantly reinforced that at some point is not never questioned anymore of course i'm thinking my thoughts of course i'm choosing my diet i'm choosing my friends i'm choosing my career of course i'm choosing what i'm gonna dream tonight of course i'm growing my hair no we don't usually go that far but i'm choosing to keep them longer to cut them the illusion is so beautifully persistent and is so amazingly convincing that what makes this brilliant dream so attractive And seeing through it is not going to change it.
Like Bob says, you know, you...Go to the ocean, you grab the glass of water and bring it up and you see it is clear. It's not blue. But you put it back and you look out at the ocean and it still appears blue. The illusion of control will still appear as beautiful as it is, as magical as it is. Yes, I'm choosing it. I'm going to pick the menu in the restaurant today. Of course, I'm going to choose. The illusion is going to still, the mirage is still going to look in its fullness, in its whole glory to be enjoyed. But once you know the truth about it, wow, so much more fun.
So much more fun in being that presence, discovering how is this body conditioned. And now it goes for this. Or will that... Maybe tempted by some sweets or will that go for a healthy option? Hmm, let me see. And if that goes for unhealthy options, there may be correcting program arising also. Or maybe not. Hmm, fascinating. And I'm still the space which has no preferences. The preference, of course, will arise in the moment always, because that's the nature. Even the animals, birds, insects, everything goes according to its preconditioned, pre-programmed preferences. And now you can just be that space which you always were.And instead of beating yourself up for doing the wrong thing, taking the wrong choices, feeling guilt, resentment, remorse and all that stuff, you can see, wow, yet another aspect of that discovery, that constant adventure of seeing my body.
Seeing that programmed body-mind mechanism vehicle, which is, we call it machine because just for the convenience of the metaphor, but it is all made of life. Every single part of it is just aliveness and sentience. Every cell has intelligence. But still, it is conditioned to behave in certain ways, just like you look at the atmospheric currents and they are conditioned to go from the, or even the river, from the higher to lower pressure, from the higher to lower level. There is a natural tendency. So there is a natural tendency in every single vehicle. And we don't know what they are. It's a lifelong discovery because they're constantly updating, constantly changing.
One situation will come different and the whole biocomputer recalibrates.Amazing. What a play. Did you want to answer to that, Oren? Yeah, I think a good example is when you go to sleep at night, like the whole process of sleep we're not really aware of, but there's still an appearance that there's a me there. But the letting go that's happening into deep sleep, like the body relaxes and then you go, where do you go? In deep sleep. Like is it like the processes that happen into that deep sleep? And then awakening at the same time, there's no one actually doing it. There's no, like, I can't choose what's happening.
It's just happening. But I think in deep sleep, we don't have any experience of this is a me. BecauseYeah, going into deep sleep. But I think, I don't know really what I'm saying, but the deep sleep, going into deep sleep is a good way or the relaxing into deep sleep and seeing where the contractions are actually happening. That sense of I'm not letting go into that space like awareness that you are is a perfect example because we all have contractions of separations. And it's... We can have an intellectual understanding of all this non-dual language around the head space and our senses. But we need to embody it to the point where we're just okay with everything as it is, as Dean was saying.
All-inclusive, like welcoming, and everything happens on its own. So whether you... Go have some therapy, regulate the body. It's all there anyway, but it's just happened that way and the information's there and you get it.If it helps, it helps. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Move on to the next thing. But there is no me that actually, why does it matter? You don't have to link or grab this no duality identity. It's just okay. Like, everything's okay. You don't have to worry. That means no one has better language than someone else. No one can be smarter, more superior, inferior. Everything's just okay as it is.And I think that's, what's the word?
Sameness. Our okayness and sameness that we're all the same on the same page. And it really relaxes that contraction of separation into the space like awareness that we are. Not limited by any content that the sentence, like our senses are perceiving or any, but at the same time it's in everything. What is so whole and complete? It includes all the shit. It includes anger, it includes tantrums, it includes absolutely, there's nothing that can be excluded. It's not a state of, ah, everything is nice, everything is beautiful. It's rubbish. Like it includes every gamut. Of full spectrum of emotions, of actions, of the horrible ones, the terrifying ones, the beautiful ones, the angelic ones, whatever.
There is no good or bad or right or wrong or up or down or in or out. The is-ness is inclusive of... And devoid of, well, it can include every judgment you could ever imagine. And yet it is not a judgment. It is what is.And, yeah, just elaborating on that. Beautiful. Another Bob Pointer I think he uses a great... Perfection is non-conceptual awareness, is that it? That's it. Because, yeah, all this is words. And like as you were saying, Kat, we're trained to only see words and only see concepts. So even if you listen to the sounds, we don't know what the next sound is going to be.
But when you wait for it, that's a tram. Already it's a concept. It doesn't have to be a concept. So don't give it a concept. It's just a sound.When a child learns what a bird is, you can never see a bird again. No. Well, you see kids'drawings, and you see when they first start drawing, you've got the sun over here, the house isn't on the page, they just draw what they see, and then they're taught, no, the house has to be in the centre, the sun has to be here. So it doesn't look anywhere near as beautiful as it did when they first started drawing.
And that's a beautiful thing called drawing on the right side of the brain, a book which is awesome because you turn things upside down. And I drew a portrait doing that and I couldn't draw. No, I turned it around and I thought that's bloody amazing. I'm just not using the mind to interpret the face because as soon as we see something, our mind projects out what it's supposed to look like and then it comes back with the concept. You can do exactly this with the next thought. So if you just wait. And wait for the next thought, and then treat it like it's in a language you don't understand.
But it comes and goes. What's there before?What's their while of thoughts there? What's after it's gone? There's something that's still there, isn't there? You feel it? Well, just wait. Wait for a feel. Doesn't matter what it says. Let it go. You feel it? There's something here, isn't there, before? You're present. You're not dead. Do you feel it? I can't feel. It's not a thing, but it's not nothing. You know, when Cliff brought up, you know, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it. Okay, let me find out. Let me see. Just for a moment.There's obviously nothing wrong because it's the thought that says there is something wrong.
All right. But what happens when the thought is paused? Is there anything there? But I'm still present to say there is nothing there. So that non-conceptual presence awareness is there to say there is nothing else there. So that non-conceptual presence awareness is always here to assert the appearance, what is arising. And that one is always here. That one is home. That one has no limits. It has no boundaries. It has no, nothing you can say about it. You can't say that it's only here, five centimeters from here. No, it's just here. It's just presence. Limitless because you need the thought to assert its boundaries or to judge it in any way and as non-conceptual without an assault it's justAnd this is that state in which there is just completely relaxed, cognizing emptiness or non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness, pure perfection, just that and nothing else.
And on that, the next thought comes or the next urge or the next incentive or next inspiration or next... Dream. All of that comes because there is that aliveness first. And that is what we just keep coming back to because, you know, that is the source of, that is the loving to be. And when we stay in that without dispersing that life essence into engaging with the dreams, there's nothing wrong with engaging with the dreams. It will happen. But in that moment of bringing that light back into the source of the light, it just multiplies. This is what actually used to really lift Bob, even when he was very, very weak, just pointing back at that source of aliveness.
And suddenly he was 10 years younger. Because, yeah, that's... there is joy love for the truth is just the delight in in exploring that effortless magic the mystery of presence that is always here it's always whenever I look mmm there is existence, there is sentience, there is presence, can't be objectified, nothing can be pointed, circumferenced, but can't deny the fact that it is rich inIt's an aliveness, it's miraculous, it's mysterious, it's radiant, it's luminous, it's... Yummy. But I think I want to include, there's some comments here. Yeah, there's a few comments here. So... Yes, apparently when you restarted, Sandy says it was much better. So, okay.
If you are with us next time, Sandy, then please report if... Because other people said it was all right. And Sandy also says, I'm... Often accused of being blunt and told to think before I speak. It worries me so much until the realization speaking is a spontaneous process. Now there is little concern if the wrong thing is said according to others. And life is so much lighter with these understandings and realization. Yeah, beautiful. And it doesn't mean that at some point or the other, you will not be inspired to pause. You know, it may or may not happen. You know, out of loving care, you know, you may be still blunt towards people who...
Some people and very very careful with those who may get hurt who knows and life will resolve it it's not up to you reallyIt's just whatever is happening. And Lee Marie says, Kat, I'm in Minneapolis right now. It is so hard to not identify with what's happening here. Well, you are a compassionate creature, Limari. Cherish that. Recognize the love in that compassion. Because yes, you know, if you want to look around, you will find a lot of dramatic stories. What's happening there is, yes, it's absolutely heart-wrenching and dramatic. And it's... Natural to actually if you look at it it's natural to be moved by it and to and to feel compassion but you know you look at the life of your neighbors their dramas there too Bob would often say you know people dying there people get shot or people get you know children got deported or whatever happens Bob would often say you know if you think pause for a moment and realize how many people died in Minneapolis last night of different causes, accidents, diseases, suicides.
But we don't even think about it. We don't even put the thought there because who knows? There might be just too much for the system. And for a compassionate creature like that, it would be just shattering. But, you know, when attention goes, energy flows. Cherish the love behind it.concern and and and let it let it go I mean life is organized this way that everything in here is impermanent so yes people get hurt yes people die and so do animals so do trees and everything else And there is intelligence far greater that runs the whole shebang, you know, the whole movement of planets and galaxies that has orchestrated in this way, that, you know, hundreds of people died last night.
And over the hundreds of years, how many... Thousands and millions have died. Bob would also bring that example of Spanish flu. I don't know if any one of you remember, you know, when he would say, terrible, terrible tragedy, First World War, killed mercilessly 60 million of young soldiers. What a horrible tragedy. Imagine the families, the mothers, the siblings. Wow. And then the Spanish flu came right after and wiped off 80 millions.Nobody speaks about that. That's life living of life, life living on life. And yes, there is a lot of call for love in the form of compassion. And yeah, cherish that, cherish your sensitivity. The acceptance, you know, like life's intelligence.
If those people for the last hundred years didn't die, they couldn't be here. If the trees that cover the planet, where all have every acorn, every seed were to sprout, no other species could exist.And yes, it moves me too when, you know, tragedy like that comes, is brought up into a public eye and there is... Call for that compassion. Yes. What can you say? Just, yeah, stay in that love instead of translating it through the mind into anger. Oh, the evil villains, I want them all dead. No, just... Stay centered here. If you don't go to the mind, there will be still sweetness of love rather than dysregulation, anger, distrust and fury that comes from judgment.
And Giotti says, just another way to approach this, thoughts to work on anger and possible actions are still rising within consciousness. Whether the actions will yield results or not in self-mind's control. Yeah, great point. Absolutely. Everything is just spontaneously arising, whether it is anger, whether it's a remedy to anger, all of it. And Andrew says, when not able to see a loved one, even if they're still alive, the griefhas been so heavy that the knowing goes, but then after much suffering, it eventually goes away. But there seemed to be no control over when and how often the suffering comes and goes. So true, isn't it?
That just wave is floating. It's like the tsunami just wiping the whole villages or whole countries. Just flood of grief comes over this one, just like the weather. Though if you keep looking and stay as that space-like awareness, the wave will still come. But you don't have to wallow in it. It won't last that long. The recognition will come. Mmm, wave of grief. And if you take the label off, mmm, wave. intensity. You don't even give it a label. And being with the raw energy, absorbing it, giving it space, letting it express, giving it that love of being, this also loves to be, let it be.
And as it experiences and expresses itself through that transformer, it naturally dissipates. And then another one will come. What else can you do? Not that you are a doer.Andri also says, other than just knowing it's coming and going, but the loving to be is not always there either. It may appear like a loving to be is not always there either. Like there may appear the idea of, I don't want to be here anymore. I want to die. I kill myself. That's love of being. You know, wanting the suffering to stop. What a better expression of a love of being. I love this one so much.
I don't want it to suffer. I'd rather kill it than let it suffer. So love of being is always there, not always in the same form. Sometimes it appears as a wave of grief. Oh, I don't want to be lonely. I can't see my loved one. This is so heart-wrenching. I wish myself something better than that. That's love of being. And when it comes like, shit, this is so tough. I want to get drunk. I want to sedate it. That's also love of being. It's a different form. But underlying this is always that well-wishing, at which point you don't wish yourself the peace and the bliss and the joy.
So it appears in a different form, but it's being, knowing, loving to be. Being is always present. Awareness of that being is always present. And love of being, which is expression of it inaction is also there otherwise you couldn't write it you'll be dead and I'm sorry that you're going through it I don't want to joke about it I know it's I know it's tough shit I've been there too and Javier says hi Kat and everyone here Javi from Argentina nice to see you Hi, welcome back. And that's that for the online comments. And thank you for participating and thank you for contributing and asking questions.
And everyone, we still have a few minutes. David, would you, or Joanne, would you like to say something? We didn't hear you, no? Oh, Joanne, yes, please. Thank you for the lovely warm bath of words. Oh, beautiful. Thank you. Same with you. Oh, no. Oh, lucky? Yeah, thank you. Thank you both. That was awesome.When you're talking, Dean, about the, you know, what is everything appearing on and this kind of search for what is, you know, what is this appearing on and what doesn't change, it's as soon as you identify something, It's like, okay, well, what's that appearing on? And it's that question. The whole apparent purpose of that question is to look.
Like, the looking is it. There's nothing appearing on anything. There's just appearing.And as you were talking, Dean, I just felt more and more like the... More and more like I was losing it. More and more that just became obvious that the focus of my attention or the happening is all that there is. And, and like, that's, That's it. And that's what's looking, that's what's being seen. That's that, I call it, you know, focus of attention or whatever, but this experiencing is quote unquote what I am or what it is. And there's no...And that's it. But as I was kind of falling into this, which I've kind of, you know, dipped my toe in and out of this recognition or acknowledgement or just pure seeing, there's also at the same time this fear.
I feel this fear popping up, trying to drag me back. Like, fuck, what about me, though? And it's just a... it's just a weird oscillation between pure seeing that all there is and what I ultimately am and what everything is, is just this happening. And then this thought popping in being like, no, no, no, this is me over here. And it seems like the mechanism by which it, by which that habit is attempting to stay entrenched is fear. At least here anyway, there's this, there's a following obvious, obvious awareness and obvious recognition that this seeing is literally, that's it. It's so plain and so simple and that's it.
And then there's this fear dragging me back into the pattern that's like, not that there's, you know, I don't know what to do. Obviously, the whole conversation is about who is doing anything anyway. It's just interesting and it was... Yeah, I loved hearing you talk, Dean.It really just... Created a different environment and a different seeing. So thank you. Yeah. It's like one essence and patterning, shaping, forming. And every, it's like all energy. So the appearance is all these different energies and the fear is an energy. And the seeing and the dropping away, they're all just energies and they're all appearing. And it's just wild, isn't it?
Like even a sense of a me, if it's there, is an energy appearing on the same appearance for no one. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, people online. Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Thank you.