This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
And that will be just me and Bob, tunnels away. Let's see if that... Let us know if there is any issues with the mic. We'll have to see if there are any comments. If you see any information on the screen, whether we are audible, if there is a problem with the sound.We have issues sometimes. Okay, we'll find out in due time. For now, we're just going to start. So welcome. Welcome to our little community. And I'll just cover the basics for 20, 30 minutes, just the way Bob used to do that. And then we are all encouraged to interact because ultimately what we're pointing to is nothing new.
It's nothing that anyone does not have already inherent, innate knowledge about. It is just the problem with overlooking that basic simplicity. And that overlooking and frankly trading the unborn Buddha mind for a thought, engaging the attention with imagination rather than being completely present with the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, that one causes so-called psychological suffering. And that one doesn't have to be there. Life does not have to be lived from the point of being separate, from believing that I am a little separate.person, me made of memories, me made of my history, life can be lived from the standpoint of pure livingness, of pure space-like open field of awareness or consciousness.
If there is no comments there, everything's all right. No? Okay. So hopefully... Can you guys let us know if you can hear all right or not? Those who are with us. There's nothing says in there either.Okay, so back to the basics. The basic predicament, and Bob would often start the whole introduction from that. He would say, I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. Bodies can't hear. Bodies are just matter, they are just vehicle. Body is like a computer. Without the power moving through the computer, computer can't do anything of its own. It's all good? Ah, wonderful, thank you. So Bob is not speaking to bodies and neither am I.
Speaking to bodies makes no sense. He says also, I'm not speaking to the mind. I'm not speaking to any mind. What is the mind? Speaking to the mind, what is the mind? Mind is the capacity to think. So if we take the analogy of the computer, the capacity to think would be a capacity to exercise certain software. You know, like the computer, you can ask your computer or the computer in the phone, which is a form of a computer too, to answer some questions. And it has a program installed with language model. It will answer questions. The computer will connect the camera and will be able to see.things and record the images.
So I'm not speaking to any mind as if I'm not speaking to any software installed in the computer. And then Bob would say, I am speaking to that I am, that I am. And everyone is experiencing the certainty of their own existence. The pure certainty that I am. Everyone knows that they are. And that Certainty of existence is translated by the mind as the thought. So he's not speaking to thought. It's not the thought speaking to thought. I'm going to close the door because it's noisy.So it's not the mind speaking to mind. It's not the thinking speaking to thinking. It's not the I am speaking to the I am.
Speaking is happening. Within that space of existence and that space of existence that pure awareness of existence is translated to the thought I am but the plain thought I am doesn't give you a sense of identity. Of its own, it means nothing. It's just a word. It's just a sound happening in space. But when we say I am, it is not just a plain sound. It signifies something. And we can look what it signifies. When I say I am, what do I mean by I? Who is the I? Or what is the I? What am I referring to? What's the reference point? When I say I am hungry, for example.
Well, that's a reference to the body, isn't it? Oh, I am angry. Well, that's the reference to the mind. But the I am, prior to referencing the body or referencing the mind, is that pure consciousness, pure aliveness, without any concepts on it, is just pure being or existence. And in Hindu language, in Hindu scriptures, they describe the wholeshabang in five words sat chit ananda nama rupa and they say three of them describe the reality and two of them describe illusion omaya sat chit ananda is reality nama rupa is illusion omaya so sat chit ananda meaning being everyone is being right now nobody can stop it for a moment we are being so that's the one condition of reality awareness of being there is no one who doubts that being yeah of course of course i'm clear that i am yeah it's not like something that i need to understand or learn it's not something someone has to told me this innate clarity of existence so being knowing knowing of being and love of being that is a joy in pure existence obviously nobody has committed suicide last night so that love for existence that preference for being is already is already present so sat chit ananda being knowing loving to be or existence consciousness contentment or existence consciousness bliss or stillness just the stillness of existence the joy uncaused basic stillness of that existence, that comfortable, That's it.And then comes the two other factors which signify illusion, nama and rupa.
In that being, that existence, that resting point of just, ah, hmm. There show up the activity of the mind, which names, labels, differentiates shapes. There is a chair, there is a brain, there is a wall, there is a country, there is a nation, there is a feeling, there is a thought, there is a sensation. All those The existence has been covered up with all the labels and all the names and forms. That is how the illusion comes into play. That is Nama Rupa, name and form. Naming, differentiating forms and labeling those forms. And nothing wrong with that. I can assure you that that cat is also perceiving the doorway.
He doesn't bump into the wall as he walks. But there is no differentiation that this is a wall which is not I. No, he's just a movement of life finding its way. Within itself is a current is like a rain in the sky it doesn't say i am this and not that is the moment humans start differentiatingand labeling, naming forms. This is the TV. This is not I. So this is it and this is I. This is when the self-referencing start appearing. The little child is learning labels, learning words, learning that things are separate. Symbolic language that has been learned through imitation, that has been invented as a wonderful, wonderful capacity, creates the sense of separation, seeming sense of separation, because it's still for the little baby and for the cat and for all of us when we put that language aside for a moment, direct experience is of just this open field of dreamy happening.
And whatever is the content of that dreamy happening, well, right now is this room. I had a nightmare last night. Quite amazing. Again, being at sea, stormy seas and a ship half collapsing and panic amongst people and the nervous system in the dream, the dream character would answer with the dysregulation or just stress and action and all that. Amazing. Where is it now? Where is that dream? Have it ever been real? The sea that I was dreaming about, where is it? The ship, the people, none of that has any existence. It wasillusion maya the the fleeting phenomena appearing in the consciousness the same consciousness as this dream is appearing right now or i can have psychedelic experience or i can have visual experiences or other strong experiences like you know seeing demons or or angels or auras all of that is absolutely magnificent expression of that one essence whether it is a nightmare or whether it is a beautiful dream of love and guidance and whether it is a dream of me being in in force of taking responsibility for what I manifest in my life whether this is a delusion of grandeur Wow, they're all incredible dreams appearing in the consciousness.
We don't bother that much with the dreams. The dreams are secondary. They are all to be absolutely loved for what they are. Blow them a kiss, give them a nudge, just like you watch a good movie on the TV screen. Mmm, I loved it. Wow. You can watch your childhood trauma in the same way. Wow, amazing creation. Within the consciousness that is empty and free from all content, the content is just showing up. And then it disappears and another content is showing up and it disappears.And then the fantasy is showing up. Oh, what am I going to do tomorrow? It's going to be a nice hot day.
And it disappears. And, ah, shit, you know what happened to me yesterday? Those are all dreams arising in consciousness that is present. And those dreams are made of what? What constitutes the fantasy, the thought? What constitutes the nightmare last night? Does it have any substance?being able to see how the dream comes into existence because of the symbolic language that we've learned, the capacity to differentiate and name the forms and shapes and label them. You can see that this is the creative capacity that life has given to itself in that human form. Cat doesn't have that capacity. It has another capacity. It can see much better than I do.
It can smell much better. I'm not seeing that well, so it's too easy. But it can smell really, really well. And he can hunt, he can jump and flip, somersault in the air. This particular vehicle for life can't do those things. But that one can sing and cat can't. And it can imagine and cat can't. So if you look from the perspective of that pure potentiality, that pure field of cognizing emptiness, that life essence, that totality, which in some places, some scriptures and some religions is called God, which means omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, something that is like a substratum of everything, a suffusing,the whole manifestation is present in everything in everywhere us everything is pure presence whether there is a shape of that presence or whether there is no shape of that presence is a pure presence and then there is omnipotence all power It meaning that it is a power that is beating your heart right now, that is moving the planet around the sun, that it is all power, is a power that expresses as the imagination, as the capacity to dream.
That is also the same one essence, the same substratum, the same. Cognizing emptiness of God, or omniscience, all creativity, all knowing. So this, in physics they would call it a field of pure potentiality, that before it expresses as a current, you know, that stillness or that space or that silence, before the vibration appears in it and becomes sound or the light or the solid matter, it is just a pure potential. So that pure potential can't see of itself. You can't even say that it exists. Because it doesn't have any shape, form, there is no expression of it. So you can't say that this pure field, which you may call stillness or God or...awareness of Brahman or you can't say it exists or Shiva you know Shiva without any vibration in it it isn't anything it doesn't even exist the moment the movement starts appearing in that emptiness the emptiness vibrates And there is no moment when it starts.
Because there is no time. We'll get into it in a sec. But the vibration appearing in that emptiness, in that field, is the appearance. That is what we call Shakti or Maya. The appearance, the movement, the waves. In the emptiness, there is a ripple and it becomes a sound or light or electromagnetic wave or internet or Wi-Fi or thought. They all just ripples, appearances in that pure potentiality and the matter and the matter solid seemingly in this dream. But when you dream at night, how solid the matter is. It's not very solid and yet it appears absolutely solid. I can tell you I could taste that salty water and I could smell that waves.
It's so, it was so, it almost appears more real because certain filters there inhibiting the strong responses and emotions are turned down. That's why the dreams are sometimes almost like a schizophrenic reality too. It's just absolute.amplified to to anyway that's that's just the nature of the dreaming but the emptiness which appears as the form that's where when they point out into the nature the double seemingly two aspects of that reality that one aspect with the Shiva pure potentiality and another aspect with the Shakti vibration movement and then with that movement with that vibration everything whole dream sounds lights feelings thoughts emotions solid matters sensations perceptions all of it comes into existence The Shiva, the pure field of cognizing emptiness vibrating into all that forms.
But the pure potentiality was nothing. Can the form be anything? Can you grasp it? Can you grasp the sound or the light? You can seemingly grasp the solid matter, but only with that, which is part of the dream. Which is also solid matter. Can you grasp what was so solid last night? With the hand of this dream, it's no solidity. It's equally empty. That's why they call it illusion or appearance or manifestation, phenomenal manifestation, maya. So the nature of a dream is that it appears to be, it appears to be,real but what's real behind the dream is the cognizing of it is the sat chitananda is the being knowing loving to be is the omnipresence omniscience omnipotence is the consciousness the field the space-like awareness underlying the appearance.
So this one is primary, this one, and again this is a wrong word, one could say is first, you know, it's like a page of the book is prior to the print or the story in the book. But it really isn't. It goes out of the factory together, straight away, the page and the print together. It doesn't, there is no differentiation, there is no separation. It only appears to be two, because without the two sides of the coin, there is no coin. Without the two ends of the stick, there is no stick. Everything in this phenomenal manifestation appears dualistically, because without the duality, there is no appearance, there is no experience.
Could you possibly know the light? Either it was always light and no darkness? There would be nothing to differentiate it. There would be no label light. There would be nothing to be said about it. If everything was just light, there's nothing.If there was no sickness, you wouldn't appreciate health. If there was no sadness, you wouldn't know joy. If everything right now was painted black, the color black wouldn't make any sense. And there would be absolutely no appearance, no experiencing whatsoever. The only way for anything to be experienced, it is if it has beginning and an end, if it appears in that which is prior or beyond the experience.
Any experience, the experience of hearing this voice right now, it starts... And it pauses. Because of the gaps, the voice can be experienced. Because of the silence, the sound can be known. If there was only silence, there's no silence. You wouldn't even need to call it that. So any experience is always a dualistic manifestation. So whether it is an experience of cosmic union, which is very often what people are after, because the whole body-mind machine, which is a vehicle for that pure potentiality, for that Shiva, for that essence, that Sat-Chit-Ananda, to experience its own appearance, to experience anything. As we established, the space, the nothingness, can't experience.
There's no differentiation. There's no experience. There's no awareness.of existence there is nothing we can't even say it exists less alone that it knows that it exists nothing it isn't a thing so that vibration in which that pure potentiality or shiva can experience itself as an object gives it an eyes to see and the ears to hear and the body to experience sensations and gives it a dream And because of the dream, because it is constantly changing, and because it has the gaps when there is no dream, suddenly it is clear. Wow. Wow. There is an existence. There is a phenomenal manifestation. Because when it folds, hmm.
There is an is-ness. There is still existence. So now within that dream, the existence is known. And this is what is sometimes called consciousness. Awareness as pure potentiality, completely unconscious, unaware of itself, can't even say that it is. And then through the form of expression, it becomes conscious. I am. Wow. Amazing. But what it comes with, with it is a little twist. I am this person. I am this individual. I am this body. I am this mind. And I had a bad childhood and I'm a female and I came from there and this happened to me and that happened.happened to me and with those concepts added to that pure open field of consciousness instead of being amazed with this miraculousness of wow what am i i am who am i who cares wow instead of that Now we have a nightmare of psychological suffering.
Oh, but what if I'm not good enough? Oh, I should have been something else, done something else, said something else. I feel guilty. I feel shame. Oh, this is wrong with me. I should keep growing. Or that person, he doesn't like me. Oh my gosh, I feel rejected. And all the nonsense oh my mother beaten me when i was a child and this has wounded me and i'm broken i need the therapy all the nonsense all the dreams that coming up with the reference point coming up that i am this vehicle creates suffering but recognizing that vehicle here is only Because that pure potentiality needs to see its own reflection through the eyes.
This is reflection of consciousness. This is what arises. All of that, all the sounds, all the sights, all the perceptions is the miraculousness of the appearance. without the idea that this is a reference point and it is all happening to me. And what am I going to do with that? I have to make better choices. And what do they think of me? I'm in danger. Or what if all the mental... Clutter covering up that pure experiencing causes pain and sooner or later it causes the seeking now how do i unentangle myself from it How do I get out of that suffering, that conundrum? How do I find myself?
Now I am myself and I lost myself and I have to find myself. My goodness, how many selves, how many concepts? And what am I actually imagining to find? And this is the spiritual search in which the seeking always happens within the imagination. Because the presence right here, right now, doesn't have to be found. It is already here. Who is not present? Even if you are constantly, the attention is constantly in the dream, you are in a long stretch cinema, theater, watching one movie after another constantly. Short movies, you know, the attention is jumping yesterday, tomorrow, this, that, the other. Still, you have to be present for that whole entertainment to be on.So the seeking happens within that imagination, past, future concepts.
Okay, if I hear a better concept, someone explains me better, then I will get that. Would I? Get what? So the seeking often not only happens within the imagination, but it also sometimes will precise what do I want to find in the imagination. For example, I want to find enlightenment. I wonder if I'm covering that. What I'm going to find in the imagination. I'm going to find eternal bliss, cosmic union with the universe. I'm going to be superior. I'm going to be free from any angry thought or any unpleasant sensation forever and ever from now on. And this is often what starts spiritual search. And this was my case.
I had that image. I was hanging out with Zen people. And that's what the enlightenment is. It's an absolute liberation from any nuisance that the dream provides. Liberation for who? There are questions rarely asked, or maybe it is, but it isn't heard. Initially, but probably good first 10 years of my spiritual seeking adventure,Maybe they were all saying, hey, look if there is a me. I couldn't hear it. It was just inconceivable to even... Consider that there is a reference point that is taking credit for doing the looking and having expectations of what is to be found. I couldn't hear it, that there is, you know, that maybe what is actually happening is the urge in the body arising to whatever eat a chocolate go to the toilet read a book watch a movie maybe it is just a spontaneous arising in that body-mind mechanism no it was me choosing to look at this deciding to eat that, to befriend this one, to choose that career.
It was unquestioned. It was never looked at. Is there really anybody there doing all those things? It's pretty obvious there is no one beating the heart. There's no one moving the blood in the veins. The machine does it by itself. It is designed this way. It was pretty obvious that there is no one doing the seeing. The seeing is a capacity that this body has. But it wasn't obvious that no one is also doing the looking.choosing where to look. It was assumed that there is a me that choose where to look, where I look to the left or where I look to the right. There is me that does that.
And at some point I heard there is no one there. At some point I was shown through the little experiments on my introduction to non-duality, which took place in India just a couple of years before I met Bob. Experientially, I was shown through the meditation. And through inquiry that no one does it. There isn't anybody there doing anything. Everything's just happening. The next thought just arise in consciousness. The next dream just arises in consciousness. And yet, even though it was clearly seen, sometimes for weeks, and it was just pure open field of curiosity, looking, oh, what's the next dream is going to happen in consciousness?
Where the next body is going to look? But still the habit of referencing would return and would re-establish itself in this body for a couple of years. That habit of, no, this is me. I was having it. I was understanding it. I was seeing it. But now I'm not seeing it anymore. What I? There was no one seeing anything.when that effortless openness and curiosity was happening like hmm let me see what's gonna happen there wasn't a me that was seeing there wasn't anyone doing it but then the habit of referencing would return and it would say yes but Now I feel that I was doing it and now I forgot how to do it.
How am I going to do it again? How am I going to make myself see again that there is no one that sees? Again, see the absurdity of it. It can't happen. It's impossible. The me cannot see. That the me cannot see because there isn't anyone there. So who is going to see that there isn't anyone there?And this is where the difference comes from the mind differentiating and dividing the pure seeing into the me and this. Without the mind, there's just seeing. When you're not thinking... That this is I and this is not I, that is just seeing. Seeing is the capacity already inherently present in that body-mind.
It's there, everyone is seeing without trying, the seeing is happening. The mind comes and translates it and says, no, this is I, a person, seeing this. But this is only a translation. It's just like being is happening. And the mind says, no, this is I. I am.Without the thought, there is no person, there is no entity. See if there is anyone, if you can find any sense of agency without thinking, without referencing it to a memory. Who are you without your past, without your memory? Who are you if you couldn't think a thought whatsoever? You see the presence, the existence is still here. The cognitive capacities are still there.
The seeing is still here. The hearing, all of it is still here. But the idea that there is someone there inside that is hearing it, this is spoken to me, I get it, I don't get it, I agree with that, I disagree with that. Oh, comparing it with that, what this guy said or that guy, this is all thinking. If for a moment you push that thinking aside and look into the direct experience of existence, what are you?You can't say. To say what you are, you need the thinking, you need the thought, you need the label. And label is nama rupa, is an illusion, is maya.
To label yourself as anything, you're dreaming. Yes, but I can label myself as space. But what if you don't? What are you? Without any concept, perception, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is still going on. But without even remembering how you look, without even remembering the shape or the size of your body, because that's a thought. Memory is a thought. You see that the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is just happening right here. Who's doing it? Who's having it? Those are thoughts. Without the thoughts, direct experience, without translating it through the mind, it's just this. Just this miraculous radiance of existence with all the content arising within.
Not even within, because that's a thought. It's just here. Just here.And this is what we point to, that there is a presence, there is the consciousness, that awareness, that beingness, that emptiness cognizing, the capacity of knowing happening right here. And it has thousand names, thousand ways it is pointed to stillness, silence, space. Intelligence energy. Bob liked this word intelligence energy because it is energy. It is all movement. It is all appearance. You can't separate movement from the stillness in which it arises. You can't separate the sound from the silence in which it arises. The two sides of the same coin, they really want. Or the objects from the space, they mainly space anyway.
So they are pointers calling it God or love. Even to call life love, being, knowing, loving to be. Everything that is appearing, including anger, including suffering, including sadness, including a war and the civilizations being wiped off and volcanoes, tsunami waves destroying the whole nations.You could see it as love of being. Because there is no concept in it that human life is more valuable than the tsunami waves life. If that is just an appearance, if that is just a dream, they are all equal. They all transient. They all just a flickering blink. That is going to go back into the nothingness that is not completely nothing because it is alive it is super creative it is brilliantly creative in a way it experiences and expresses the thousands of billions of people that lived on earth from the time in memorial came back into that ocean of nothingness and including that beautiful man nothing was lost because the same field is showing up as another creation as a new exploding star or the Sun or a bug or the newborn baby is the same life showing up it doesn't mean that there is particular quanta of the energy that came out of this life and now is going to show up as a life of a bunch of mosquitoes or or a newborn baby no that's that's ridiculous if you think of energy how can the energy taken out from that globeSuddenly, as a unit, come and lead another globe.
No. And Bob had this beautiful metaphor. When a drop of water comes back into the ocean, it merges into the ocean. And then when another drop rises out of the ocean, it isn't the same drop. It's the ocean as whole, but it isn't the same drop. So the idea that there is one drop incarnating is a beautiful, beautiful story. But just see it for what it is, another grandiosity delusion. I, my soul, separate, moving through time. Beautiful story arising in the field of consciousness that you are, not a separate soul, but as the totality. Much much broader than any possibility of traveling through time or through moments like the way you see the thought being the energy incarnating into the ideal into a dream is it the same rising water constituting the same wave no the water does not we don't There is no need to assert any separation.
Life is a flow.And living from that standpoint of just being, just being, not being this or that, not being good or not good enough, not being complete or enlightened or unenlightened, just being. You will still see that the mind will arise and look for safety and pleasure and will still arise and create urge, mind, I mean thinking capacity. It will still operate as it does, just like when you press the start button on your computer or you start your phone, it still does. All the software arises, does what it has been designed to do. But there is no attachment, there is no guilt, there is no shame, there is no remorse, there is no credit taking for it.
It's more of a discovery. This body has this pattern of behavior that in someone's face, it just punches. Wow, how cool. How cool. But I tell you something, there was a time when this body had a different program. Maybe it would just sit down and cry. But how interesting. What is it going to do now? What am I going to say next? What am I going to do? I, I mean the body-mind, when that situation arises, Let me see. Interesting. Let me find out.Am I going to take credit for that? Oh, the body shut down. That situation took place and there was a shutdown happening as if there was an abuse happening in the body and the boundary just came up in it.
Hmm. Oh, maybe it means that you have taken something personally. No, there's no one there. No one took anything. But guess what? There never was anyone there. And this, when you realize that the body is rigging up the boundary by itself, the body is wallowing, the body-mind is wallowing on certain idea, concept, or piece of criticism by itself. You're not doing any of it. Now you see the same activity happening. Hmm, interesting. I'm not doing it. You realize that, oh shit, I don't have to liberate myself from that separate self. That from today on I'm free and yesterday I was bound. No, there never was a separate self.
There is just an extra piece of software running and assigning credit to imagined entity that has never ever existed. So 15 years ago, I wasn't doing anything. Today, I am not doing anything. But 15 years ago, I was taking credit for every piece of action.Oh, I vacuumed the house. Oh, I said something unpleasant and my mother got offended, so I apologized. The same thing happened yesterday, but there was no credit taking. The thought arose, the response arose, the action arose, no one did it. Just same as 15 years ago, the only difference was the narrative which assigned the credit. When you look through the magic trick of the narrative, which creates a story of me being responsible for my thoughts, my actions, then you will see what that sense of self is made of.
It's simply a construct in the narrative. It simply exists in thought, in imagination, in a blah blah. Without the thought, without the story, without relating it into that mental construct created by the narrative, there is no self. And there never was. You are already free. You are already that consciousness. And when you pause the thought, you see that this is the case. For everyone, the world arises in that presence. The thought arises in that presence. The sensation of warm or cold or pleasant or pain arises in that presence.That's the reality of it. But the translation of it is, no, it is happening to me. But without that idea, it is happening to me.
It's just arising. Coming back to that basic recognition of spontaneous arising rather than trading it for the story of meis basically what we are pointing to. And there are many, many ways in which Bob was pointing to it and many others before and after him. And there are many words that we are using and no word is a thing. No word. Can ever adequately represent that which we're pointing to because it can't be grasped the pure consciousness is there whether the words are there or not so words are just a minute expression of it and even to call it consciousness It's a wrong word. I had a conversation yesterday, one-on-one with someone about, you know, the limitations of label consciousness.
Okay, so there is awareness, which is pure potentiality, and there's a consciousness, which is the movement of it. So, you know, is the sperm conscious? An ovum the little cell no it's not it doesn't know that it exists it's not conscious so when does it start hmm nah this is the limitation of a pointer we can call it consciousness right now in the lack of a better word But in showing up the whole process, perhaps Bob's word intelligence energy is more appropriate. Because there is an intelligence in that little cell when your parents got together and your mom got pregnant and there was this little fetus forming in the womb.There was intelligence already innately present, which made it to grow hands and legs and according to the, of course, the provision of the environment from which it couldn't be separated ever.
So those things are inseparable. And those are all pointers. Intelligence, energy, or life would be a better pointer in that situation. Consciousness may be a better pointer in another situation. Cognizing emptiness or... Pure singularity because there is no division in it duality is only labeling nama rupa names and forms put on it sat chit ananda is another word bob also liked the description of of dzogchen saying that this is a great perfection and great perfection meaning non-conceptual awareness meaning the presence of existence without any concepts put on it without without any labels any words on it so how can we point to something that is pure perfection When the words are not added, and we are pointing using words.
Ever fresh, spontaneously present. So maybe, oh goodness, I'm talking for too much.The beauty of this meeting is that they are supposed to be interactive and the best meetings we ever had and the best meeting Bob ever had is when everyone was participating in the meetings, sharing their recognition, what resonates, what is helpful. Maybe even which words are most helpful, which resonate the most. Like some people like this particular pointer. Oh, awareness kind of is more broad and is spacious. I like that. It just rings through. Or maybe the I am-ness, this is like more, it's closer. It's just closer to my heart. It just feels like.
Or presence, you know, for Christians, it would be Lord's presence. It's not my presence, it's the Lord. Lord thy God. It kind of makes the little mini me a little humbled. Anyone have preference of how would you point to it? Because there is no one who is not aware of their existence. It's just what we do here, we rejoice in just pointing back to the source, to the origin of the whole beautiful dreaming capacity.And in that, we don't dissipate the energy into, you know, like going into all these avenues of expression, but bring it to the source of it. It's going to start us off.
Thank you. Like it's very confusing for the mind because if you point back, there's nothing. So look at what's space or whatever. You can't give it a name or a word and it doesn't exist. When we say like there's pure potential, then anything's possible. So that means in the story of this, it is possible to kind of die. Suffer and have karma and have rebirth and so what why isn't that like possible within the story as well so he's separating it all out it's still in the nama rupa that's still in the story that why that is a potential within the story that's equally as real as anything else isn't it Totally.
That was a good question. Yeah, actually, I just have a little something to cover. Actually, story is, what's wrong with the story? Story is a magnificent, magnificent expression of that capacity. It's like, it's a supreme, you know, if you think of that beautiful little cat here, it does not experience, the memory does not experience, as far as we know, because it can't label it. You know, it's like Bob's question, oh, can you remember your birth? And people argue, oh, yeah, I remember. No, you imagine. Because to remember, you need to have a language of coding. You know, even the computer to remember something, it needs to have its code in which it will put it down and solidify it somehow.
And a child doesn't have any language, so it can't remember in the pictures or the images. Yes, the body learns to have, you know, traumatic births. Then the body learns particular response. But it isn't exactly a memory. So the way this life essence has given itself supreme capacity to experience and express in comparison to animals who can only experience only. It's a wonderfully fulfilling experience if you look at this creature here.But it is a present experience of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, absolutely blissful. They don't engage in that imagination. That is like their life is almost, one could say, devoid of that incredible capacity to imagine.
Whilst through the human pattern, how many dreams you can have in one day? People say we have up to 80,000 thoughts or so. 80,000 dreams through one dream generator. Wow. Bravo, God. Well done. Though, of course, it comes with the price. If you relate it to a self-center and there is a constant overlay over those dreams, judging it, I don't like it. Oh, I want to push this one out. You can't do it. It can't. And there is a frustration, the powerlessness. Oh, I don't like this dream. How am I going to get rid of it? Oh, resist it more and more. And the more resist, the more fuel you put on the fire.
Try not to think about blue elephant. Try hard. No, blue elephant. No, no, no. It's not going to work. But it flows and changes by itself. And being, realizing that you are that pure capacity, the pure open field of presence, that registering field,strong with enjoying a good movie. Oh, very good on. Yay, what a ride. I remember Bob was asked many times, so Bob, you're not thinking anymore? He says, I don't think, and neither do you. But thoughts arise, of course they arise. Sometimes there are long periods of silence. And I have to kickstart it to arise because it's entertaining. What's wrong with that? I had to dig out some memories from him.
Just, oh, wow, you know, gosh, Bob, when he went to school, remember he used to say that story when... When the principal of the school called him to the front of the class and she would punish him. That was a time when teachers could physically punish children. And he remembered that vividly. And he would, you know, that was a good metaphor of what the thought can seemingly do. He says, thought has no power. But the belief gives thought the power. He went in front of her, she's a seven-year-old, I'm a big guy, who, what she can tell me? Okay, she beat me up. She's beating and beating and beating and he thinks, oh yeah, whatever, I can put up with a little bit of pain, what else am I going to do?
And she's beating harder and the whole class is looking and then suddenly that thought comes up. What if she doesn't stop?And being a child, the thoughts aren't questioned yet. The reality. He got white. He got blue. He nearly fainted. She saw him. The class saw him. She stopped instantly. The power of thought. Is there any power? If you think the thought, she doesn't stop. What power does it have? None. You're not even thinking it. I just implanted it and I didn't do it. It just arose. I didn't do it. I didn't plan to tell you that story or anything like that. But there is no power in thought.
It's the essence, it's the life, it's the energy that provides the power. There's no power in the globe, it's the electricity that makes it lit and it comes as light. So that belief, unquestioned acceptance of something, oh, I'm not good enough. I have never questioned it really. Because if I have, then I know there is no one there to be good or bad, to be superior or inferior. There's no one there. It's just a bundle of thoughts. But the belief that there is someone here, that's the source of all psychological suffering. Belief that can be questioned. We made ourselves, we hypnotized ourselves to the belief in separation.suffer accordingly.
Such a relief. Such a relief to realize that it's just one. Without a second, and it's already one. So you don't have to do anything because it's already done, finished.There's nowhere to go and nothing to do. And the... The identity that one assumed for most of one's life is realized, not that it realizes, but there's a resonance in some waythat sees that as the fact that it's acknowledged as an illusion. Resonates somehow as a positive acknowledgement. That that identity never existed. So one can just rest.in the peace that passes all understanding. Which is very comforting. For no one. Yeah, beautiful. Lovely. We have a couple of comments here.
Thank you. Yeah, it does the only thing that no one can do, the no think. If you are the space, what does space ever does? No think. So you can say rest or relax. Just be. I'll see if you had any other choice. But we have a couple of comments, so I'm going to bring them in. Julia says, human life being more valuable is another concept we created. Absolutely. You see it, can't you? Yeah, totally. I mean, from the perspective of a bacteria, come on. It's always a reference point. From humans, yes. You know, you look at the, let's say, Islamic terrorists from their perspective, their life is more valuable than those they oppress.
And it's just reference points. Rising, thank you, Julia. And Simone sends love and hugs to everyone. Deborah sends a heart. And Gilbert says, recognizing that one is nota thought is as simple as recognizing a small bug that floats upon your jug of drinking water. You do not drink it. Believe in thought is simply ignoring the floating visitors in your mind. I love it. That's pretty good, isn't it? Just, you know, like recognize the thought for what it is. Ignore it. Don't drink that bug. Thank you, Gilbert. And Tanya says, you do not create the thoughts. You are not the believer of thought. Therefore, you are not me either.
Absolutely. Yeah, just notice. You can't create a thought. You can't think it. You can't choose to believe or not. The thought arises already charged with its own potency. No one does anything. And John says, Well said. Narrator, quote unquote, in the head, like a sportscaster, is not likely to change the outcome of a game. That which makes no claim of its own is the very now. Still, silent, seamless, and sentient. That's beautifully put. Yeah.Yeah, beautiful report. Let's get a mic. Yay. I think it's gone now, but maybe it was around. There's nothing to do. So the thought arises whether you believe it or not or don't believe it or whether you can step into it or not step into it.
There's no choice. Yes. How do we, like, that frustration, people must, when they hear that, you know, because there's nothing you can do. It doesn't make you doing something because you can't control that either. Yeah. That's incredibly frustrating. I can't remember how frustrating that is. Now I'll step back from it a little bit, but I'm just curious as to what practical, is there anything practical that people can do to... Take a little step back from that impulse of the mind that pops up and just recognize what's here before. And for me, that's the idea of, well, there's something before that. Something has to be here before.
So it's recognizing. Oh, yeah, there's a thought. There's another thought, another thought. But there's something before. There's always something just before. I'm just wondering whether anyone else has practical things for people. Because, yeah. Struggle with that. You know, is there anything practical you do or is that just... Yeah, yeah.Really, really good point, Michael, because, you know, for the practical thing to do without falling for the trap that I am the doer doing it, because that's the main thing. You're right. There might be a response of frustration associated to with the recognition that there is no self that can do anything. Shit, you know, like, so I'm going to be stuck in that forever if I can't do anything.
Shit, you know, I'm going to stay in that phone box. But even staying in the phone box is not up to you. Even doing something practical is not up to you. Recognizing that for anything practical to be done, it just has to arise. And perhaps, you know, what life is already doing, putting you in a situation when something inspiring may arise in the field and it may cause the resonation. But you haven't done it. Life has brought you here. You may have a story in the narrative that I have decided to come and I went to my car and I drove an hour or more.
But really, realizing that you didn't think that thought, even that,was the 10,000 things orchestrating and moving that whole life. So there are many pointers that could be recognized practically and resonated with. Step back is a good pointer. Like see if there is anything that kind of rings true. Hmm, yeah. And that was beautiful. You said, you know, okay, the thought is just here right now. And that thought may create, let's say the thought is, oh, they hate me, you know. It creates the response in the body that you know the shallow breath and contraction and all that but hey a moment ago just before that thought came here it's nothing wrong Hmm, right.
So that pointer is a good practical sort of a thing. If it arises spontaneously in consciousness, okay, what happened before that thought? If it spontaneously arises, it may spontaneously arise as, okay, I'm going to make a sticker on the fridge and put it out. That's also not you doing it. That's just spontaneously arising. Or, you know, Bob's pointer, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Okay, they hate me. Oh, there's a contraction. There's... But hey, let me see.If I don't think about it, yeah, the heart is still beating because there's still emotion. But there's no problem with that. There's no problem with just this regulation, the energy moving, bubbling.
No, there's no problem. Oh, okay. So it's just a thought. That is causing it interesting wow the little things like bob would say often you know sometimes people would have really persistent obsessive uh thoughts about whatever i need to work it out in the mind or i need to uh find a scientific solution to it or you know in a worse obsessive mind you know some deviation of like weird sort of animated porn or something like that or other addictions Bob would say, you know, again, you're not the doer. If this is what mind is churning, step back and see it as just spontaneous arising.
And don't touch it. Just arising. That's it. But sometimes it's so torturous that life may invite you to the field of breaking pattern techniques. Like Bob would say, let the thought ride on the breath. When you inspire, there is something arising.expires it moves away so that mental image is breathed out there will be a moment of respite and it will arise again a moment of respite arise again by the way notice that you're not doing it notice that you're not doing the arising This is just how that glitch in the computer, how that virus just keeps bringing it up. Like the virus of referring or referencing it to the me.
Just keep referencing. Keep imagining there is someone little here, there, some doer, doing it, thinking it, reacting, responding. Just chill out, step back, relax, like Rose was saying, you know. This is all spontaneously arising in the consciousness. None of it is personal. None of it is any of my doing. But yeah, anyone else? What's practical? What's working? Jimmy, you have anyone? Anything that works for you? I always find it funny after your spiel. Does anyone have any questions or things I'd like to say? Because generally I'm just like... In a state of like silence or yeah presence and there's like the thoughts that all words you've just said have just like moved through me and there's just like an open awarenessIn terms of practice, I used to love practice.
I used to meditate two hours a day consistently for like five years. But all my favorite texts or pointers always pointed to It already being here. It already being now. Ever fresh present awareness. And this idea of practice sort of softened.but would still come up, like the mind always, always wanting to achieve, attain, get something. And for me, it's about allowing the mind to continue to do those things. But now there's a softness or a letting it do it. Or there's an awareness or a witnessing, watching this urge come up. Release its energy or go about achieving something but there's just a bit more of aYeah, presence or an awareness that watches it and realizes that although these things come up from time to time, that there really is, yeah, nothing to get, nowhere to go.
But just an allowing. And when that urge does come up to practice or to achieve, even in that, there's an awareness of something taking place. As soon as you realize, oh, I'm distracted or I'm angry,There is the awareness already. Yeah, I think my main one, and I think it's just more like being present or noticing that I am-ness. Can be considered a practice, but it also can be considered just like a joy in itself. That allows everything else to unfold in a bit more of a harmonious way. Yeah, that's my thoughts on practice. Yeah, it's just so beautifully pointed. Yeah, and beautiful, and it also resolves the, you know, the centuries-old question on practices because you know practicing happens as children we practice walking but but this is just spontaneous happening which we call later on we practice walking or we practice speaking and we learn new language and it's all happening disciplining the mind by meditation technique or disciplining the mind by learning new language or playing a musical instrument or even by setting a goal and proceeding towards it.are all spontaneous activities that no one does if the body mind is so inclined to set the goals and to proceed towards them or the mind is so inclined or is so the whole machine is so conditioned and is creative it will be expressing this way and the narrative will of course put oh yeah i'm doing it i've achieved this uh like gosh gilbert you're gonna hate it but i'm gonna use him as an example because he just commented the bloody bugger had so many gifts He's been a writer, he's been a publisher, he did music, he did podcasts, he does incredible art and in so many different mediums.
But he never done a thing. It's just the body-mind has all those capacities and they express. And now... If he had a big ego, he would say, I've done it. I've achieved it. You know, this took me so long. Those stories are still valid. Yes, to print a book or to compose the, you know, like the wood print or to sculpt. It does take time. And the back story says, yes, it took 120 hours of solid work. But the work just happened. It happened. You look at something and you see something in it. And that seeing is none of your doing. Or when the book pulls out through you, it's just you get out of the way and that's what is happening.So one could say, oh, yes, but you need the discipline.
Well, if you need the discipline, says who, by the way? Life will bring it. Nisargadala would say, if the effort is required, effort will spontaneously and effortlessly present itself. So that's really how it works, how the practice, even the practice. I got myself a Pilates up eventually after all the years of promising myself to exercise and never doing anything about it. The impulse came and I just got one. And the practicing happens seven minutes every day. Wow. I haven't done it. But it's happening. Tomorrow it may not happen. Practicing is the same sort of practicing. Whether the practicing is sitting hours in meditation, whether practicing is using the Pilates app, or whether the practicing is jogging or whatever.
It's just a label that we put on spontaneous activity. Michael, you have the mic. Yeah, the amazing thing about that is, like, this isn't just for people on the spiritual journey that absolutely know this anyway, because if you're lost in work or... There's no sense of self if they're absorbed in a task. There's no self until after. They're no longer absorbed in the task. And then it's, I did that. Yeah. That's everyone does that. That's just interesting.There's no sense of self whatsoever for anyone when they're fully absorbed in any task. Absolutely. Until they're finished. Then, oh, I did that. Absolutely. And this is such an important point because...
Bob would often say, we all know the natural state innately. We all have glimpses of it all through the day. It's nothing new. We are looking, often people on a spiritual journey are looking for some supreme state of lasting pleasure. But any moment in which you are not absorbed in that imagination, that psychological suffering coming up from translating everything that is happening and relating it to a me, you are in natural state. You go for the walk. And you notice the leaves on the tree and you notice the birds singing. Oh, noticing it's just happening. Were there any other thoughts? Did the labels come up with that?
That's the natural state. You are in the natural state all the time. It's just that this natural state is obscured by imagination, but that is not all the time. Sometimes it is not obscured. There are moments when the imagination subsides for an instant. Because, for example, that was my first Zen koan. I went to see a Zen master and she's asked me a couple of questions, how long I'm in the practice, and suddenly she does that. Sorry, darling. Absolutely. Yay. So only when we think about it.That was a demonstration. What happened in this moment? All the thinking stopped, even if just for a split second.
And the natural state was effortlessly, presently, blatantly right in your face, unadulterated, unobscured, unveiled by the imagination. Oh, this is me and this is the Zen master and I'm going to be trying to... All that gone, all the interpretation of the situation gone right in this moment. How many moments through the day you have of that effortless functioning without covering it up with the veil of imagination and interpretation? Because when you see that those moments are already known and familiar, that this presence that we're pointing to is not something new that you're going to get in some time in the future, but it is something already inherently present right here, right now.
Then you will see that even if the veil of imagination appears on it, let it be there. Who cares? Wonderful. Natural state has not been touched by it. It is underlying it always. Even if the mind is caught in the roller coaster of ideas, the stillness in which thoseideas are arising hasn't been touched at all the registering of that mind being caught up is not being caught up there is something that is present and aware of mind being caught up It's not mind caught up, really. It's just attention going towards the imagination, towards the dream. Beautiful dream when you just relax and watch the dream.
Woo, wow. Especially when the gut's intense. Yummy.And Julia says, noticing that I am trusting life more, that things take care of themselves. No need to worry about anything. Isn't it a bliss? You know, that is the state Bob had. He was naturally, he was so inclined that he was skeptical. That was his greatest strength. He was distrusting of absolutely everything and everyone. And his long life has proven him that people turn. You trust person, that person's going to leave, betray you, go. My goodness, it actually really played out in his life so well. It's like almost no exemptions. I mean, I was an exemption, but there wasn't many more.
And you guys. But in the closest vicinity. But he says, recognize there is a natural trust in life. That you don't have to exercise. You don't have to learn. You don't have to have. There is natural trust that there is another breath here in the lungs and that there is another heartbeat. And whatever is needed in the moment will arise in the moment. You don't have to constantly obsess about what is going to happen tomorrow because if the planning is required,it will again arise in the moment. And if it doesn't, and you're still here, well, it means it wasn't that big of a deal. The trusting that life has it all covered because the whole manifestation runs on the autopilot.
Thinking runs on autopilot, seeing, hearing, all of it runs by itself. There is no one doing it. You don't have to keep your butt, you know, tight. And oh shit, you know, if I stop controlling my reality, it's going to fall apart. You've never controlled it. You never did a thing. It's an illusion of control that you are seeing through.Just on that practice or praxis. I did a lot of meditation for... 20 or 30 years. I did a lot of concentration work. After a while, the most powerful concentration wasa very natural state. So it's close to that natural state. It's quite powerful and it's very grounding.
But something that I read recently and It explains something about light. And that book that Kat mentioned about natural perfection, the writer of that, drawing on Longchamp, the original, the master that wrote that text, talked about light in Dzogchen being the most natural intuition. The most natural expression. And they talked aboutthe fact that you are the light, you an expression of that light is through you. Each to the pure. Clear light and I used to do a lot of camping and you'd get out in nature and if you had some sort of a view looking over the paddocks and hills and trees.It just appeared that what you're looking at is light.
It's pure light. And it's empty and there's nothing there except the vibration, the Colour. Form. But it's insubstantial, but it's there. It's an appearance.But also you can get a glimpse of this pure light. And see how it would make no difference to the appearance, which is already appears insubstantial and empty. But in a way, you can see this pure light is there as well. And you can't negate that either.So it's as we are beings of light, As an expression. That's something that has arisen in the practice. So it's... In this particular text it says the um the prosaic everyday experience of this um appearance isthe light of the mind.
It's the ordinary, everyday experience, the light of the mind that shines Shines. Every day, every day. It's there.Yeah. Yeah. And everyone is a unique expression. You know, every globe will have a little bit of a different, you know, intensity of the light. But the light itself is just a pure, pure light. I wonder if you ladies, would you have something to add, maybe an insight or comment or question or anything? I can't be more for more. It's my first time, so. Yeah, you don't have to. It's just an invitation. No, I came here to receive some answers. So I'm quite happy with what I heard.
So basically we have no free will. Yep. There's no one to have the will. Free or bound will if there is no one to have it. Yeah, which is what I thought. So it's nice to have that confirmed. Beautiful. Yeah, okay. I was able to sort of put my life together in that time. And my present and my future, I guess, as well. Just let it be. Yeah. That's what I realized. Whatever I've experienced spiritually, et cetera, I've always wondered what I'm...What am I supposed to do with them? And why have I experienced certain things? Normal or abnormal. But it's okay. The intelligence, as you said, wanted to experience that and is experiencing it through me for some reason.
Beautiful. Chosen me. Yes. Oh, well. That was a vehicle that was eligible. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I just, yeah, I let that be. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Wow, that's an amazing insight. Yeah, yeah, I can make peace with that. Yeah, amazing insight to not need to have a story, why me? Yes. What a liberation from needing to find the answer to that story. That's right, because I came here looking for them. And I think that's okay, I don't need them. Freedom from question, that's the only freedom there is. Yes, and whatever else is meant to be from the experiences that I have. It'll come.
Absolutely. If it's meant. Totally. Totally. Yeah. That's okay. Thank you. Wow. Wow. I love you inside this. Absolutely. Wow. Wow. Thank you. All right. And Tanya says here, So awakening or enlightenment, if there is such thing, is C.that there is no me, no separation, no control or free will, and that all is included and all is well always. You are okay always. Who you are, your essential nature, which is space-like, of course, of course. Dream character, when I had a nightmare on that ship sinking and swaying left and right, I couldn't tell I was okay as a dream character. But as the consciousness experiencing the dream, absolutely.
When Bob was in his deadbed taking 200 milligrams of morphine every day under the skin and some other drugs on top because it wasn't enough, he was still clear and sharp as a bell. It was hydromorphine, so it was a little bit less. Space was okay. You can ask people who are coming in the last days, and he would greet them with a smile and with a loving gaze, and he would say, where am I going to go?But the body was not. The body was... But it was really... But he was not the body. So yes, that's a really good point, Tanya. Thank you. And Julia says, I love seeing your beautiful cat companions in each video.
Yeah, they're wonderful, wonderful babies. And they're a great demonstration of the natural state because their natural state is not even traded for the thought because they can't imagine things. But even when it is traded, still natural state for us too. Anyone, last word? Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Let it be the last word then. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.