This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
One. We got Ross, we got Kat, and we got Miranda, and Jamie, and Tanya. And hopefully... Mike is going to work. If there is something that's not working, please let us know. Off you go. Are we ready? We're ready. We're rolling. Simple message of non-duality as always. The essence of this message is always the same. It doesn't change. Non-duality. All the mystics and the sages... Tell us constantly there's no duality in non-duality. So what is meant by duality? Duality in essence is the conceptual mind. And it's the mind that is instilled in us from a very young age to relate to our experience. In concepts.
That begins withprobably the first concept, which is me. The next concept, which is the other. And that's instilled into us probably around about the age of two. We learn this is me, that's you. Let there be light. And this is the initial. Separation the newborn maybe experiences no separation born into the world in complete wholeness it knows no separation between itself in the world and its mother it sees has a kind of you knowa consciousness that is not divided. So at about the age of two, we learn me, we learn the other. We start to name things. Our parents go, look, it's a cat. Look, it's a chair.
And we break the world up into things, into concepts. The original split is me and the other. And that is duality. So therefore, we move forward through in the world and this we gather more and more concepts about the world, about things. And we develop beliefs around these concepts about what this experience is that we are all having. And my concepts, my beliefs are different to yours and different to everyone else's. And then, you know, that divides the world up more and more because then we move into religions and all sorts of belief systems. And, you know, that's sort of the beginning of the strife.
Now, the core message is non-duality. So this message is just a reminder, a remembrance of that original.state as all the mystical texts tell us to enter the kingdom of heaven be as a child I think that's sort of what they're pointing to that original consciousness now that original consciousness as a child has has never been lost or gained it is our natural state So what we're looking at is What is this natural state? So the natural state is non-dual. Consciousness is, as it implies, free of or duality.So if we investigate the fact of our being prior to the concepts, And we just... Prior to the mind we can see that there is just a pure witnessing there is a pure sense of I amness of beingness of isness.
There's lots of pointers that are used to sort of to look at it. Now in the beingness that we are, Can we give that any particular quality? Can we hang any concepts on it? It's undeniable that there is an experiencing, that there is a beingness there.But it's not experienced through the senses. So you can't taste this beingness. You can't see it. You can't feel it through the senses of the body, but it's undeniable that it's there. So this non-dual consciousness... Has no quality, so therefore it can have no opposite. Even implying it as beingness or I am-ness is still not quite right because there's non-being, beingness, I am, I am not.
These are just pointers to get us to have a look at what this is. And we can, the fact of our being is undeniable. But because we can't hang any specific quality on it, We can't name it. We can't put a concept on it. Therefore, it has no opposites. Our beingness isn't male, it isn't female, it isn't hot or cold, happy or sad. All of those qualities belong to the mind.Now, in the original statement that there is no duality and non-duality, That would imply that our concepts, our beliefs, this feeling of being a me is not true. That's what that statement would imply. So let's look at that.
The beliefs that we hold now, the concepts that we hold are probably different to the concepts that we held 20 years ago, 10 years ago. They're constantly changing.you know, our beliefs, our concepts move around and what we believe today, we didn't believe yesterday and what we believe next week will probably be different to what we believe now. So what we want to have a look at is, is this me this self-center that's been created, this dualistic me, Is it a fact?Now, all we can really see with this me if we investigate it is it's just a bunch of beliefs and concepts. So. This concept of me, which is the original split, is the falsehood that we need to look at.The way we look at it is by questioning, first of all, what we hold to be true, what we hold as a belief.
The belief is not the thing. So I'm sure what I've stated here is not new to anybody who's listening to this. We've heard it a thousand times before. You know, most of us have listened to this message a lot. We go, yep, we understand there's no me. So what I would move to next is understanding that this me is a false creation and that the reality, which is always so, which is that non-dual reality,is recognized. And moving from there, I would ask anybody who's watching this, where is your allegiance? What are we holding our allegiance to? The falsehood or the reality? It's easy to experience the fact of our own beingness, but why do we keep slipping into this falsehood, this false dual appearance?And I would suggest it's mainly because of unquestioned beliefs that we still hold.
Beliefs about who we are, ultimately, what this experience is, it's being experienced. And I think for many of us, we don't question deeply enough what those beliefs, those concepts that we hold.So I would suggest, like, what's the original belief is, A, that we're this body and we're this conceptual me. So we can easily put to rest the idea that we're the body. So anybody can remember back to when you were a child. So, you know, how do you know? Well, I was there, I was a child. And that consciousness that experienced the child is now experiencing the adult. Is unchanged. Yet what we call the body is just a flow of energy of atoms, molecules, whatever concept you want to put on whatever the body is, but not one atom of this body remains from 10 years ago.
It's a constant flow of food. We can take food, the food becomes the body.But we were still there. We were still experiencing. The body. So what the body is can't essentially be what we are because the body comes and goes, it changes, yet we don't change. So we can easily see. If it's questioned that this belief that we are the body is false. And it's similar to the concept of this mind that we believe that we are as well too, because as I was saying before, all our beliefs and concepts that we hold to be true and that we hang on what this experience is, are constantly changing.
They're not the same. So therefore, the mind can't be what we are because the essence of what we are is totally unchanged. And, you know, as you move, as, well, we don't move through life. Essentially, life is moving through us. So there's two standpoints that you can take. As the me, there's a me that is moving through and living life.And I'll use this as an example. So when you're in a car and the car's moving, the sensation is that, is that, I'm sitting here yet the world is moving through me or we're in the car moving through life. So that's the two perspectives we have.
I would suggest that what we are, which is unchanged, that non-dual reality is that life is moving. Well, when I say life, I mean the experience is moving through us.So. Essentially, what we want to come back to is where is, what perspective are we looking at through life, through this me that is living life, or through this non-dual reality, which is the essence of what we have always been and always will be. Yeah, look, I haven't got much more to say because it's the obviousness of it is there for anybody who cares to look. The experience.of a me is an illusion. It's something that's created by I don't know what, but it's there.
If you care to have a look, you'll see that thoughts arise, actions happen. Life happens, but it's not happening to anybody and there's not anybody making it happen. It's just happening. It's just what is. And I'll leave it there and I'm going to pass it on to Tanya, who's going to expand upon my wonderful concepts and enlighten us further. You're welcome. Thank you.So, Jamie. Touched on a couple of things. That have come up here recently. And he said, to the effect, why does it, why this sort of going in and out, or this getting lost in the me and the I from time to time?
Something like that. But it's not as if it's a bad thing, is it? It's not a... No, no, I'm not... No, I'm saying that it is necessary for the experiencing.That separation, sense of that illusion of separation is what enables, creates the possibility of experiencing loss and then gain, or gain and then loss and change. So how would, if all was perfection, as it is, but if there was no seeming imperfection, loss, change, then how would it be possible to experience the joy of coming home? Never been lost. But how does one experience the joy without having been lost? Coming home. How does, you know, all the whole spectrum of what we call emotions and feelings is all fundamentallythe same.
Fundamentally it is all the same. Dressed up in an illusion and interpretation and meaning applied by whatever this creative thing is that appears as thoughts and vibrations and we give a call mind and conceptualize. But ultimately, I'm going to say we, but there is no we. It is only that.never change. And that is your other point about being can experience seemingly moving in a car or seemingly moving walking. There's an awareness of change in geographically, in position, in shape, in sensing of the body. But what allows that identification of that change is that which never changes. She sits in the background. I would just add to that, and I agree with you totally that the...the experiences of joy and all those dualistic experiences are part of the livingness.
But the difference is with your self-center, those joys, those emotions, the sadness, all of that, The feeling is that it's happening to me. That's the difference. And that's where the suffering comes in. So if there's joy, sadness, and all the experiences are just arising and moving on as they are, then that is very different to... joy, sadness happening to a me. And because the feeling is that it's happening to a me is where the attachment comes in because this me wants to be joyful all the time, doesn't want the sadness, doesn't want the pain, wants all the pleasure. And that's where the sense of resistance and attachment come in.
And that's the essence, rather than what I said before, where is your allegiance? Is your allegiance to this sense of a me or is it to the reality? Now, all these experiences, the experiencing, coming and going,can either be happening or they can be happening to me. And that's where that's the big distinction that needs to be made. And if there's a feeling that it's happening to me, then there's a sort of disquiet, dis-ease, discomfort that comes with that. When it's seen through that there is no self-centered, that this self-centered is a totally fictional entity, then the joys and the sadnesses of life come and go, like the weather comes and goes, like...
The body comes and goes. Everything is just moving through that. And without that sense of a self-center, it's free to move through, move through and move on. With that self-center, rather than sadness arising and moving on, sadness turns into a chronic depression and story yeah because that the story because the me is the story story of me you know if If somebody asks you, who are you? You go, well, you know, we have a story. This is my name. This is what I do. I come from here and I'm doing this. And in the future, I'm going to do that. So what we are is.is not a story.
It's not a story. It's just the pure experiencing. So essentially, if our allegiance is to that reality, then all these experiences of life continue to happen, but they're not happening to anybody. And that's the freedom that's pointed towards, because it's not as if we turn into these numb, things that don't experience anything the experiences that come and go it's the nature of the dreaming that we're in at the moment is is it is a kind of experience what what this experience is we don't know is it a dream is it a you know could be a brain in a vet who knows it doesn't really matter It's not important, but what is important is it's seeing that reality, which has no qualities, has no duality in it, is the reality.
And life lived from that vantage point.is the freedom that's being pointed towards. It's not some mystical, magical state of constant bliss and, um, and all these concepts that we hang on what this understanding is. And that's another belief that needs to be looked at and questioned, because we look at all these magic, sort of mystical sages, and we hold them in high regard, like... You know, Ramana Maharshi sitting around in his nappy and in this constant state of bliss and elation. And we believe that, you know, we see all these people sharing the message on the internet and they're in some sort of state that we're not and maybe one day we can get there and probably not, you know, but What I'd like to point out is that my allegiance is to the reality.
My experience in is no different to what Ramana Maharshi or Bob or anyone, because Bob used to say, nobody has ever gone beyond that no thing. So it doesn't matter what the physical manifestation of the organism is. That's just, that is still the dualistic. You've got the sages and you've got the prostitutes.It doesn't matter. They're all that. So there is no mystical, magical state to be achieved. It's just a simple looking at are we this separate individual self-centered that we take ourself to be that has been instilled from a very early age, which is a fiction. It's never had any reality, made totally of beliefs.
And those beliefs, in my experience, create a sense, a feeling of contraction. So the feeling
The feeling that was there when there was this belief in this me was a kind of contraction that there's like a belief that this is me, I'm the body, this is all I am, and then there is an outside world that is not me, me and not me. And that's how 99.9% of us move through the world. So because it's a fiction, because it's not the reality, this me has to create the feeling that it is the reality. So the feeling is a contraction in the body.that this body is me.
And so in a sense, I would say this belief in me is even more than just the thoughts and beliefs. It's the feeling that it creates in the body through that false belief. It's a kind of... Nacebo effect that makes us literally feel like an individual. Now, when this is seen, when the reality is seen, because it's not true, we're not contracted in a body, it's just a feeling. It's a feeling that this belief creates. Then... I would say rather than mystical or magical states, the overall sense, the experience that happened here was just a feeling of relaxation, of relaxing back into what we already were, which is, which, initially can feel quite expansive.
And that expansiveness can be a little bit deceptive because it's like coming out of a dark room, a dark space into the sunlight. You know, you can use the, you know, the example of Plato's cave is a good one, you know, of... Of living this illusion and staring at shadows in the wall and thinking that's all there is and then you you walk outfree yourself from the chains and you walk out, you see the sun shine and feel the wind on your skin. Initially, that sense of expansiveness can be quite an elation. There can be a sense of, wow. And often we hear those stories of awakening and we think that that's going to be our permanent experience.
This feeling of expansiveness and bliss that's going to go on and on forever. But it's no different to... You know, coming out of a small cell and into the open space, there's a natural sense of relaxation and elation that comes with that. But eventually what happens is very soon, I always tell Kat, I like the story about, I saw a clip on YouTube. Of these cows and in Europe they're put away into stables, into this dark sort of confined space during the winter months and they spend a lot of time in there and then when the spring comes and the weather warms up they release these cows.
Back in and the pastures are full of green grass the sun's out blue sky and they release these cowsout of their dark stables that they've been confined to all winter, release them out into the pasture. And you can watch, you can look it up on YouTube, you can watch these cows, the elation that you can see in them when they're released from this space into the reality. Is they're bounding and jumping and making all sorts of noises and there's a real sense of freedom. But within an hour, they're back, they've got their head down, they're just eating grass and they're just getting on with it.
So in a sense, when we come out of this feeling of contraction, of this feeling of being a separate individual, if it happens, and now for some people it happens suddenly, for most of us it's a gradual process, but if it happens suddenly, there's that same initial experience of elation, of expansion. And I would actually suggest that's more of a trap than the gradual understanding of this message because in my experience here, that had to happen a few times before the message sunk in because what would happen is there would be initial seeingand like a kind of kensho or awakening into this blissful, wow, I'm not an individual, you know, I'm all that is or whatever.
And like everything else, every other experience that has a beginning also has an ending. And eventually that elation would settle back down into normality. And then the mind would come back in. And say, I think I've lost it. And that could be a trap. And then the mind, this me, comes back in as a doer. Okay, I've got to do myself back into that state. And it had to be seen probably four or five times through those kind of experiences that, hang on, And this is where Bob's message was very, very helpful in the experience here, because I came to Bob after having many of those experiences and always going back into the mind and back into the suffering.
And what Bob instilled...here into me was that start with the fact that you're already that and that this self-centered is a fiction doesn't matter what the experience is that's the fact and So eventually dawned here through this thick skull that it didn't matter whether there was a feeling of expansion, this feeling of sadness, feeling of contraction. All of that was an illusion that that underlying state was that underlying reality. Had always been there.So there is ultimately with this understanding is that we slip back into our normal life like that famous Zen quote, Before enlightenment, carry wood, chop water. Chop water, carry wood. Sorry, my brain's not working today.
I'm a little bit sleepy, but yeah, you know what I mean. And after enlightenment, chop water, carry wood. Chop wood, carry water, that's true. And the other one, you know, before the understanding there's mountains and rivers, then there are no mountains and rivers, then there's mountains and rivers again. So what they're pointing towards is that ultimately, This understanding is not going to greatly change the course in the function of this body-mind. It's going to go back to the same life. It's going to carry on. It has its function, its particular purpose, whatever that may be to carry out. But the big difference, the understanding that's happened here is that life is now happening, but it's just not happening to me.
And that's the big difference.And that's the freedom that's pointed towards this body-mind has a certain function. It was made in a certain way. It performs in a certain way. It still has a lot of the bad habits that it had before. But the main thing is that I just want to instill, it's this, the big difference between happening and happening to me and the expectations and the beliefs that we have on what this understanding is actually going to, because Who wants the understanding? Does awareness, does the reality need the understanding? No, it's this me that wants to understand. It's the seeker that wants the freedom.
And the difficulty is that this me can't have it because this me... Is what needs to be looked at. So this me thinks that I'm going to get this understanding. Like one of the beliefs that I held when these experiences were there is that this me is all of a sudden, now I'm like a perfected being. Maybe I can teach others how to be this and people kind of want to come and learn from me. And that's the trickiness because the final me that needs to be looked at is this spiritual me.It's me that thinks it's going to get something out of this. And it'll never get anything because the freedom is the absence of this me.
You couldn't even articulate the freedom. No. Had you not had the illusion of non-freedom. No. This link to the I, this tight knot of me, had that not been there, you couldn't even articulate what it's like. To not rely on or not be tied to that I am me, to have that freedom. So in essence, there's nothing wrong with any of it at all, ever. It enables the experiencing of you to be able to say that. Had those cows never been... Put in the barn, they would never have the jumping for joy for an hour. Do you think the cat needs an understanding? It just lives.
It just seemingly, yeah, just. It's not interested in this message. No, no. It's only us humans because the difference betweenus and the cat is we have this intellectual ability to create concepts and to create this duality. The cat has no duality. So it has no interest in any of this. Because as humans, we are endowed with this intelligence, which has enabled us to create civilizations and do all the wonderful things, art, creativity that humans do. But it's a dual-edged sword where it also creates this concept of a separate individual. And that's the main difference between us and animals. Animals have, like you said, if the cow had spent its life in the pasture, then it can't understand what it's like to be free.
But because we have this false belief instilled in us from a very early age, we move into the stable because the sense of being a me is a very confining, restricted experience because, you know, we believe, you know, we're born and we're going to die, we're going to get sick. We believe that with the body that that that that's theThat's the first misstep. And by saying that, it doesn't mean that we aren't the body, but it just means that we aren't just the body. We're the whole lot. We're all of it. We're all of it. We're all the bodies because... This reality that is experienced here, because it is non-dual, because it has no qualities, it's the same reality that we're all experiencing.
Yet the me, we all have our own separate me's, our own beliefs, our own filters on the world. That is the falsehood. The reality which...Because it has no qualities. It is no different than the reality that we all experience. And once that is seen, we're all brothers, we're all sisters, we're all like... What I noticed... Is that I no longer, because there is no longer a me, because the me implies the other. So therefore, there is no experience of others anymore either. It's just like a family because you know that that reality is the same reality that we all experience. So there's a sort of kinship, a sense of kinship and familiarity with everything else in this reality because there is no boundaries, there is no separation.
And that's such a gift. And it takes... A lot of all of that sense of, There's something I can get for you or there's something that you want to take from me. And it's really at the root of the problems that we see in this world, you know, wars and crime. And, you know, all that sort of stuff is that feeling.Because this me is never, nothing's ever enough. You know, you look at the elite of this world, you know, they've accumulated so much wealth and it's still not enough. You know, they've got to accumulate more and more and more. And that is the nature of this self-centered.
When it's seen as a fiction, is that there's nothing that you could take from me. There's nothing you could give to me to add to me. So that's where the relaxation comes in because... This me is always conniving and trying to work out, you know, how can I get more advantage from what I've had and which is trying to add to this bottomless pit. And once that is seen through, Yeah, yeah. It's like the Buddhists used to call it the hungry ghost. You know, it's like you've got this huge big belly and this tiny little mouth and you can just never get, you can never get enough.
And that's how most of us are moving through life. Once this reality, which is kind of like, I guess, you know, the reason why this reality often goes unrecognized in me.many of us, is because it has no qualities. Because it is non-dual, the dualistic mind can't grasp it. And because we have learnt to know everything in the world through the mind, through naming, name and form, that this reality is beyond name and form. So it's totally ungraspable from that dualistic mind. It goes unrecognised just as the fish in water has no idea that it's wet. It's just been its reality and it can't recognise wetness because it's never been dry.
It can't experience wetness. No. Without having the experience of absence of it. And it's so, yeah. That's it. Yeah. In a nutshell. Really. Isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. That's it in a nutshell. The two ends of the stick, the two sides of the coin, you know, the yin-yang. That's the illusion, the beautiful gift of the illusion that we, us or whatever, you know, it's a...It is just, there would be, the mind can't even wrap around it, of course, obviously. But without that illusion of separateness, difference, well, it would be a pretty dull story, right? It's all, I guess. You know, that's how the mind, that's the only way it can grapple with it.
But as you say, it's a knot, you'll never figure it out in the mind. The mind is part of the story. The illusion of a thing called mind in the first instance is wealth. It's just as impossible and unfindable as the me and the ego and all those concepts that are necessary for the illusion to operate. Nothing wrong with any of it. And because it's just like saying there was, if you, to say there was something wrong with the dream. Everyone relax, it's a dream. You know, the colours were wrong in the dream. Relax, it was a dream. The colours were wrong in the mirage.
Relax, in the holograph. Yeah, relax. You know?All that said. The thing that, there's no thing that we can't put our finger on. We just intrinsically know it from the heart. And we say the heart and we go like this, but it's not a thing that we can find. It's just real, it's a knowing. That's it. And it's so impossible to describe with symbolic language and concepts. The moment we open our mouth, we're back in, we're in the, but we... Duality. Duality. That's why every receiving individual has to take a look for themselves. And all the pointers are always pointing back, pointing back at the seeming you.
Take a look, take a look. Got to do it, got to do it. And it's there. It's never been, it's never gone, it's never left. It's always been there, still, silent.Never gone. It's constant. It's just a matter of putting the horse back in front of the cart because we've got it the other way around. So this, when you say it's just a knowing, you know, like it is the knowing. And just as we can't, this dualistic mind can't grasp the reality, it can't grasp the reality because it is prior to the reality. It is not prior, it is, what's the opposite of prior? After. After.
It's after. The reality is prior. So the reality is experiencing this me.But we take out, because we take ourself to be the me, we believe that this me is experiencing. So it's just a matter of putting the sort of horse back in front of the cart because we want... We realize this wetness that we are, this experience, we can see that the mind is being experienced. And the mind can't actually do anything. It can't see, it can't know, it can't do. But the feeling is that it is the doer, that it is the experiencer, that the thought I see can see, the thought I hear can hear, but it's not.
And this has been pointed out before, you know, like if you close your eyes, can the thought I see see anything? The thought I see is seen from that reality. So it's just a matter of putting, of things falling back into what is termed the natural state. And the natural state is the mind will continue and the mind is a very... Very helpful servant, you know, it's still, it can function in a way thatserves us but when it when it tries to tell us that we're not good enough or that we failed or anything like that it's seen as an illusion so it no longer has the power to burn if you use Bob's example of the poker right You put an iron poker in the fire.
So the fire is the reality. And when that iron is in the fire, it gains the attributes of the fire. So it becomes red hot like the fire and has the ability to burn. And taken out of the fire, it loses those attributes. It has no ability. To burn anymore and because this dualistic mind through the energy of belief has taken itself to be the reality then it sees itself as a doer so it's it's developed those attributes seemingly of the reality and that's that's That's where the suffering comes in. Seen from that reality, it's still functioning, but when it tries to burn, it doesn't have the heat anymore.
It's unable to create that suffering. And instead, it becomes a very useful tool, a creative tool. And will fail.function in a more natural way. The thoughts will still be there. The experiences, the joys, the sadness, all the emotions will still be there, but functioning in a more natural way. Do you think the cat is still worried about, is it worried about tomorrow or yesterday or You know, it's not, it has no thoughts. It's just enjoying the warmth and the comfort of the cushion. For now. For now. Right now. It still probably has thoughts of like, you know, I'm feeling a bit hungry. I might go and find some food or I need to go to the toilet or whatever, just functional thoughts.
But it doesn't have those thoughts of being a separate self. I think it's cats. Cats turn speaking of cats and I'll just include a couple of comments we have from our online community and welcome Charlie good to see you We have good morning messages and Julia says, I like how you mentioned allegiance, falsehood versus reality. Excellent point. And Anika says, dang it, if only I could have two minutes of that cow experience once a week. Maybe you do. Just you look closer. Maybe you have more than two minutes. And it's a good point with the cows, actually. They, even though they go back to the dark barn, they don't have much of a narrative going on.
Why is it happening to me? Oh, what's wrong with me? Why am I so hard on myself? Why is it? They just, life moves them. Life moves through them, us them. And that's the invitation. That is the way of living life.getting out of the way, not taking credit for any of the thoughts or any of the even resistance, even, well, Julia says, we are all of existence, so beautiful. And Anika says, Words, words, words, the knowing seems to be silent. Am I wrong? Yeah, knowing is beyond the words and the silence. Knowing that you are, you don't have to say it to know it. And that's the only knowing, the knowing, the capacity for knowing.
It doesn't even have to be a content to the knowing. Knowing is a capacity, like seeing is a capacity. Is it silent or is it noisy? Or hearing is a capacity. And this is also a good pointer in a way of... I was actually working with quite a few people going through really, really deep, deep suffering, deep traumatic experience, coming as usually as all of the traumatic experience from the negative stories that they hear in their minds. I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. I'm too hard on myself. I'm constantly judging myself. I'm constantly beating myself up. Okay, so why am I doing it? Am I even doing it?
What is really happening? I remember having another meeting with someone who used to very, very religiouslyperson have that hidden concept that if I beat myself enough and punish myself enough, then God will spare me, will have mercy. So that underlying idea or motivation in being so hard on myself that I'll beat myself up so hard that if anyone else try to harm me, there'll be a failure. Because this is just going to be like a poke of a feather because I'm so, so bad on myself. But the motivation behind, I don't want to be hurt. I better prepare. I better give myself a good beating so I'm invulnerable.
So no one can actually really give me. A hard time because I already know how it is to have a hard time. I'll be ahead of everyone else who wants to judge me. I'll do it myself. But what is that I? Who is that I? Having that beautiful loving motivation of not wanting to harm, not wanting to experience pain. I'll do the beating so no one else can touch me. Wow, what a loving thought. What a misguiding expression of it. And now what is doing it? Who is doing it? Who is saying that negative story? Now, if you actually look when the negative story comes up, did you actually speak it?
Did you actually do the beatings? Or you discovered it arising?inner consciousness just like the cow discovered the resistance towards darkness and the elation in in the light that's how the machine the body mind already programmed for survival and for thriving and for goodness and hope for pleasure is responding to that arising is is welcoming and how it naturally avoid pain every organism including plants they they drawn to that which sustains them supports them and they move away from that which is dangerous so that voices if you see that you are not even speaking those voices you are not even beating yourself up This is the old program arising in consciousness, the program that has been installed, learned through imitation, something that runs on autopilot.
I will be the worst enemy of myself so no one else can harm me any further. Wow. What an idea. No one else can harm me. Beautiful, loving idea, love story. Life is just all love stories. But if you go directly to the heart and stay with, oh, no one will harm me. I don't want to hurt. I don't want to suffer. And you stay with that deliciousness of wanting the loving care, just wishing yourself just bliss and pleasure rather thantranslating it going out of the heart into the mind and making it like Daniel saying a terrible servant okay I'll take care of it for you I'll just beat you up and I'll judge you and I will humiliate you and no one else can humiliate you any longer that's that's unnecessary the energy of the heart is a love story when it goes to the mind it moves away from the light it gets so convoluted it got so contrived it gets so mechanical in a way it is programmed then necessarily the original intention may be just almost unrecognizable the loving to be the love of being the the omnipotence the power of life experiencing expressing creating itself as as that love of being But again, look again, are you really speaking it?
Are you really saying those harsh words to yourself? Who is speaking there? And how are you actually knowing it? If you were to speak it to yourself, would that make even any sense? I mean, you know it already. You don't have to say it to yourself. It's nonsense. So that voice, that programmed autopilot, broken records speaking, Perhaps that's not you. Perhaps that's just the arising transformation of love of being.appearing as that misguided program. And if you see it in this way, how are you going to be receiving it now? I used to believe the voice which was telling me that I'm unlovable and not good enough.
And right now, it doesn't even speak anymore because it's so laughable. But if it did, ooh, hello. Hmm, interesting, interesting. But what does it have to do for me or to me if there is no one there? What does it apply to? The idea that I'm not going to, I didn't make myself. So what is it my business? Yes, the body may be too old, too fat, too smart, too stupid, whatever. But what business of mine is that? If I did not design it or create it, is that omnipotence, that power of loving to be, that created, that propelled that original cell or even the food of the parents and grandparents and orchestrated their meetings and created that fetus and again the food and air and it's just environment created that.
Vehicle so that life can express and experience and reflect itself through it and as it none of my business i'm the consciousness in which those things are being witnessed discoveredThere are negative narratives being discovered. Hmm, interesting. And who knows if those narratives will not be believed anymore because they recognize for what they are, just the old piece of software. Then perhaps, as Bob would say, nothing can live without belief. Nothing can exist without power. Every fire will die out if you don't put fuel on it. And that attention, the energy of belief, the life essence, the life-giving force, the animating essence, is which makes it alive, which makes it believable, makes it real.
Recognizing it for what it is. Welcoming as it comes, the harsh judgment, I'm hard on myself, oh, I'm so horrible to myself, nobody's as bad to myself as I'm my own worst enemy. How many of you is there? Who is the you that is being picked on? And who is the you picking? Look again. Because if there is no one there, if there is just the autopilot running, all software, you will have a ball watching the whole show. It's really hilarious. It's ridiculous. And it's so freeing to see it for what it is, rather than... Reference point taking it personally this is me speaking okay hello let's find me is there anyone speaking well the the words are registeredThe concepts are registered in consciousness.
How did they come in there? How did they even appear? Where did they come from? Who, what generates it? You don't even need to have answers to those questions. Just realize that there's none of your doing. That's enough. And then if you are not the doer, then maybe you're not even there. Maybe you are just presence, existence, pure I am, pure awareness of existence. Noticing what arises in consciousness. But last week we had a lively, big lively meeting and Ross had a nice beautiful contribution which he didn't get the chance to share. I was just using the word and in a joking way after Dean finished speaking.
And I said, that's the spirit, Dean. And just another word for this presence awareness could be spirit. It's again, it has no recognizable attributes. It's no thing. So it falls into that category of being no thing. Out of which everything apparently arises.But obviously the cat here is very confused. It thinks it's chopping water. Can you bend that camera and include the cat in the picture? Demonstration of wisdom and truth. Yeah, and... What is this reality? Tibetans call it Rigpa.This presence awareness. The base of everything. But in itself, no thing. Interestingly, Tibetans also refer to mind as sims. And that indicates the narrative mind, the mind that is talking and judging and describing everything.But as Bob says in that little white book, come face to face with the natural mind.
And the natural mind without concepts is the same thing. It's actually no thing. This is probably a good time to go and chop water, I think. And how pointless is that? How beautifully pointless. Chop water. Yeah, Charlie. Please. Relax, we're all crazy. Should I give you that cup? I just came to that realisation, Jamie. I am crazy. But anyway. Yeah, no, you guys make some great points. There's nothing I can really elaborate on. Only that, if I embrace my ignorance, the difference is whether I do it consciously or unconsciously.So I just embrace the totality. I mean, that's... That's for me. And you can say, well, who is me?
That's fine. I embraced the whole thing. It's okay to call yourself a man. Yeah. I can't believe it. Yeah, it's not the concept, it's the belief, you know. We get tongue-tied sometimes trying to talk in non-dual. Concepts and no matter what how good you get at using non-dual concepts you still fail it's still a useless endeavor so you might as well go and go look You know, just because it has nothing to do with the concept. It's totally the belief in concepts. Like I was saying before, we all hold lots of concepts. And what I've discovered over... A lifetime because you know if i look back through my lifetime i was a seeker from a child always wanted to know what this this world was what who am i even before spirituality and that was just you know and And what I discovered early on is it's okay to hold all sorts of concepts as long as youyou're not attached to them.
And you can hold concepts about anything without having the belief. It's our belief, our attachment to concepts that causes the friction, the resistance, that no, this is truth. You know, and whatever those concepts would be. And, you know, I discovered through having that, you can take on board concepts and hold them there until they're no longer useful and discard them. And that way concepts will keep moving through. But ultimately what was discovered is that what we are is prior to all those concepts. So concepts are fun. The concept of being a me is fun. You know, we have dreams and that, and there's nothing wrong with that.
It's just... It's just the belief in it to be true. And I read a book once that was titled, Why don't zebras get ulcers? Something like that. Sounds fascinating. Because of this belief, because... The mind interprets to the body. That's a function of the mind.interprets to the body and the body will respond physiologically to what's being held in the mind. So, you know, you can be comfortable, safe and warm in your bed, but in total fear that you're going to lose your job the next day. And the body itself doesn't know the difference between a concept and reality. So it's going to respond as if that's true because of the belief in that concept.
Therefore, the blood pressure is going to rise. The heart rate is going to increase. The cortisol is going to flood through the body. Totally. Therefore, there's a lot of discomfort because the belief that that is true. You know, like there's been times in my life where I've 100% believed I've got cancer. I've got cancer. I'm going to die. Making plans. You know, because the belief in the mind is that powerful. And then the body responds. You could maybe even give yourself cancer. From believing it's so strong, you know, like, and it's that belief in this self-centre that is the cause of all our anxieties and depressions and neurosis, things like that.
Yeah, so, you know, to call yourself a me and have dreams and things, you just hold them loosely. Like, what was that? The great way is not difficult.for those who hold no beliefs. It doesn't hold no preferences. So it doesn't say the great ways. Now, there was a mistranslation of that originally, and it was translated as a great way is not difficult for those with no preferences. And that was a mistranslation. The actual correct translation is a great way is not difficult for those who hold no preferences. So it doesn't mean preferences can't be there. Preferences will always be there. But we're not attached to the outcome.
We're not attached. If our preference doesn't manifest, C'est la vie. There's no, damn, it was his fault. If only he had have done this or whatever, or my fault because I'm not good enough, I didn't try hard enough. That's why my life has turned out how it is or whatever. So it's not, the preferences would be there, the dreams and, you know, we'd all prefer our life to be pleasurable most of the time if possible. Right on, brother. Is that the reality? It's not the reality. The reality is, you know, we usually experience just as much pain as we do pleasure because that's... That's the experience of being manifested in physical form.
It's the nature of this dreaming that it's... But...Would you know the pleasure if you didn't experience the pain? Yeah, exactly. Too shy. Yeah, you wouldn't experience the pleasure if you didn't have the pain to compare. The two ends are the one stick. It's like it says in the Tao Te Ching, it's only because we know ugliness that we know beauty. So that is part of the experience. You know, if we resolve back total into that non-dual and the experiencing stopped, there'd be nothing because we know that every night we go into deep sleep. What's your experience of deep sleep? It's just, you know, we know we slept well, but there's nothing there.
There is no experiencing at all. So the nature of this dream is the flow. God, I've got something to add to what you just said there. I used to get totally off my face, totally.And I'd go to sleep and I'd wake up next morning and, shit, I was so stoned. Now, where does that come from? And I think it's got something to do with what you just said. Sorry, I interrupted. Yeah, no, no. Carry on. Let's expand, if you like. Well, that was the thing. There was one particular swami who's very much related to this tradition who said sleep really is a form of samadhi.Deep sleep.
Yeah, deep sleep. It's the death of me. I go time. Yeah, it's the mini death. They say sex is the mini death. Rubbish. Sleep is. Anyway, no, carry on. I do carry on quite a bit. No, I'm just saying. Yeah. Yeah, the experiences, you know, we need the pain highlights the pleasure. But it just really comes down to the questioning of his self-centre. Is it true? And it wasn't until I met Bob that it didn't matter. didn't matter what the experiencing was here, there was an absolute realisation that it never changed that reality. So the understanding was here that it didn't matter what was appearing.
Nothing could pull you out. And that's the allegiance. It's like Bob used to say, where are you taking your stand from? Christ said, on this rock, I build my church. And that rock is the stability.that reality. So when we're operating from the stability of that reality that we are, then the world, the experience is free to do whatever it's going to do. It can never disturb that rock. We're not like a little boat at sea, you know, being cast around by the waves and rocked here and rocked there. We're like that lighthouse. We're on that rock and we're stable and it doesn't matter. The waves compound on that rock.
It's never going to move us from what we are. We're impenetrable. You know, the sword can't cut it, the fire can't burn it, the water can't drown it, the wind can't dry it. Time can't age it. No. It never changes. It never moves. It's stable. Everything appears to move in it. But that's... It's the centre of the carousel. It's the centre of the carousel. Yeah. Well, it's... There's no... really to describe it but you know it because you experience it constantly it's constantly being experienced subtle and and it can be overwhelmed by the seeming change of the kaleidoscope but it's that you know Bob used to say try not being and for an instant the mind tries to imagine what it's like not to be and it shuts down because it's impossible.
And I think that's kind of a way of pointing to what you know. To be true, which is prior to mind, prior to concepts, prior to words, prior to all that stuff that's part of the dream, that has a beginning and an end, a birth and a death, that changes. All of that is allowed by that which cannot be described. But you know it. We know it. It's intrinsic to the whole thing. It cannot exist without it. It's like a pendulum, like, you know, a pendulum swinging back and forth. The me is hanging on to the end of the pendulum and it's swinging back and forth, whereas the source is the fulcrum.
You know, it's the fulcrum. So that's swinging back and forth. The fulcrum is never, it's not swinging back and forth.But it's allowing the swinging back and forth. The me is hanging on to that fulcrum and it's going this way and it's going that way. And that's what I mean. You know, you want to be that or do you want to be the fulcrum? And the reality is the fulcrum because that reality. Is not swinging, it's not in pleasure or pain, it's not having good days or bad days. It's totally free of all that, yet all that is appearing through it. It's allowing all that to happen and that's where the allegiance is important.
If your allegiance is with this me, this self-centered, you're going to be, you know, like this all the time. Stable, the stability, that rock is the true freedom. And we are all that rock. It's only a belief that we are experiencing all that pleasure and pain. It's purely... Purely a belief and that's what we're questioning here is it true is it true and and it's not anything that can be told or taught or given to you purely have to have the, let's say, the... You've got to do the investigation. You've got to do the investigation. And to do the investigation...You have to have, well, you don't have to have, but the earnestness is there that you can't help but question it.
You know, so many people, I've talked to them about this and they seem curious for a while and then they're back to watching the footy and that. Most people couldn't give a shit. They go, that sounds really interesting, that'd be great, and then they move on to the next thing. But for some of us, the earnestness is there and therefore the investigation is ongoing. And it was ongoing and it ongoing continuously, but even to the point where in your dreams, sometimes you wake up in your dream and you go, hang on a sec, this is a, what's going on here? It's a dream. And that questioning can even go beyond, because all the mystics and sages tell us that this reality is a form of a dream.
It's an illusion. And we know our nighttime dreams are an illusion because when we're in the dream, we experience that as reality. It's really happening, right? But when we wake up from the dream in the morning, we go, oh, that was pretty crazy. How did I get from like my grandma's place and then I'm in France and now I'm flying and from a... The point of view of the waking state, the dream seems totally illusory. Yet we take this waking state.to be real. But when you actually lift up the hood and you start to question this state, nothing makes sense here as well too. But because it's continuous, we take it as real.
Like, you know, I've had states, like psychedelic states, where you're totally taken out of this, right? And you go, hang on, none of this is, it can fall apart very easily. And, you know, you perturb your brain with a few different chemicals and all of a sudden, nothing, it's all gone, you know. So we don't question not only this sense of me, but the whole thing. And once it's... Once it's seen from that point of view, it's just seen it as a beautiful manifestation, a wonderful show that is going to create that dualistic experience. But the dualism needs to be there for any experiencing to happen.
Without the dualism, there's no experiencing. There's nothing. There is that. And the seeing and the understanding and the questioning of that is where the relaxation is that, hang on, I don't need this me here to somehow... Fit this reality into the preferences that this me holds and it's allowed to just flow freely through and you'll find once that blocks out of the way that thingsLife flows a lot better if it's not sticky. Because a sense of me is like a sticky feeling, you know, like if someone says an unkind word about me, that unkindness sticks to something. It hits something and it sticks around and stays there for days.
I can't believe he said that. Or maybe it was true what he said, I really am not good or whatever. And that's... Either positive or negative. Yeah, positive, same. Same as pride because pride is a form of suffering as well too because, you know, you can't have pride without guilt. They go together. They're bedmates, you know. And... I reproduce. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that stickiness. Like I used to, you know, when I was lost in that sense of me, I always had this image of a snowball. So, you know, you start off with a little snowball at the top of the mountain. You can be feeling totally fine, good, at peace.
Then all of a sudden a thought appears out of nowhere. You didn't make the thought that, Oh, the electricity bill's due this week. And then that thought, like a snowball, starts rolling down the hill, getting bigger. Have I got enough money in the bank? How am I going to pay it? But I'm going to be a bit short. And I haven't got any work next month.And then all of a sudden that stickiness starts to bring its friends along. And it's like that snowball running that this is a feeling it used to be, get bigger and bigger and bigger. And all of a sudden that thought that you had nothing to do with about the electricity bill or...
It can be any kind of like a negative sticky thoughts. All of a sudden, all these other thoughts start coming with it. And all of a sudden, you know, you've got cancer. And, you know, and that's the feeling of me. Life's happening to me because it's got that stickiness. To it and that's where the suffering comes in. It can destroy your great day with one thought. And the freedom that's being pointed here is that no longer happens here. It hasn't got the ability because that initial thought arises. It's seen as just a thought. Have no relevance or any importance other than, you know, I better make sure I pay it or whatever.
And it moves on and soon it's replaced by another thought. It's not bringing all its friends with it to create a disaster, you know. It's just free to move on. And replaced by the next thought. It's not energized by that energy of belief. It's the energy of belief that all of a sudden invites its friends along.like moths to a flame, like you've got a light, you know, all of a sudden you've got all the moths, all these negative thoughts, or the light globe, you know, you remove the globe, which is the feeling of me, and that's come and go, you know, they're not attracted, but that me attracts all that.
Negative thinking. It's amazing because the me is also an illusion. Yeah. Who was ever hurt? That person never existed. It's amazing, amazing, but this belief from whom went into a me that doesn't exist, that suffered, and that me that never existed, from where am I? It is now free of that. Incredible, incredible manipulation of the inner religion. Okay, Tanya, I'll ask you a question.The me that never existed. Yeah. How does that relate to the self? Which is non-existent either. Not in the dream. In the dream that... But the self permeates everything. The self... The only thing to articulate with language. Oh, well, I'm talking about the absolute.
This is what we're pointing at. The only thing, and it's no thing. We don't have a word for it. We can't put our finger on it. We can't define it. It's prior to anything you can say with words. Is that this is.I'd also like to point out that you talk about, you bring up the self. So we have a concept of the small s self and the capital self. Yeah. But I would suggest that that's a fallacy. There is only the self. Yeah, but what I'm saying, Jamie, is what is the relationship of the illusion between what you're just mentioned? There is no relationship because relationship is duality as well too.
So what I'm suggesting is that what we call the smallest self, which is the belief in the self-centre, is still the reality. Like we've never moved away from it. So it's the reality dreaming itself to be a separate individual. It's not, there is no separate individual. There is only the reality which you call the self. And that self is believing in this falsity. Of separation for whatever reason it's neither good nor bad it's it's no it's not a mistake it's just what's happening and it can unhappen that's all we're saying here like whether it unhappens or happens and that is seen through makes no difference we are all that that reality and there's no purpose.
But I guess for some of us, the experienceIt's like we like going to a movie, right? We like horror movies. We go in and you get lost in the movie and you're rooting for the character and you don't want him to get killed. But if the movie gets too much, I've walked out on movies because it's too scary. It's like, oh, I can't. It's too much blood and gore. I turn it off. Sometimes I think this seeing through the individual is kind of like that, that the movie gets too much. And this is what happened in my case is the suffering becomes so unbearable that it was like, And that's what led to the first seeing of it is that, hang on, I don't like this movie anymore.
And can you see that when you do the investigation, there is no internal? You know, do the investigation. Take a look. See if you can find a me, a reference point. You look. There is, you know, we talk about internal psychological workings. That's what we've been conditioned to believe. It's a belief in the dream, it's a concept. But your actual experience is never that. It's never anything but what's happening right now. It is your actual experience. Everything else, to go and look and take a look to find, look internal, look inside, take a look inside. What inside?What inside? There is no outside and inside. It is a concept that's part of the dream.
Really earnestly take a look at your own experience right now. Nothing. Ever happens other than that which is here now. I think Ross has something to say and I have a lot of comments. They're in the dream. Something along the same lines what Jamie was saying about the snowball effect. Some wit said once, troubles don't come as spies. They come in battalions.Dreams, dreams. Yeah. No, the trouble seemed to overwhelm us. They don't come as spies. Yeah, I have about 10 comments from the community. And then we are all over time already. So I'll be reading very fast. Please forgive me if I... Yes, so John says, yes, pre-verbal being.
That was probably about half an hour ago. And every action is already perfect. And Tanya says, we love the carrying on, Jamie. You could not, not carry on as you are never doing anything. And all yet somehow is all done. That's brilliant, Tanya. That's so true. And John says again, stillness never started. And Bradley says, the mind is getting snapshots of the life experience constantly. It is only when those snapshots are printed, framed and hung on the wall, we begin to live in a gallery of our particular mind, cut off from the spontaneous potential of ever changing. Beautiful. And Julia says, both the waking and dream states are happening within the field of consciousness.
Consciousness dreaming. Thank you, Julia. I was actually going to point on that.Thank you. Both waking. Oh, that's John replying. The elephant in the meditation room is unconsciousness. And Sally says, thanks, Jamie. I find your pointing very clear. And Tanya says, I find this pointing very clear also. Thank you, Jamie. And I find this pointing very clear too. And I love your metaphors. They're so delightful. And thank you, everyone. That's, yeah, beautiful. Thank you. And we're going to snap that one.