Nonduality Bob's style spiel by Megan. 26 Oct 2025

Julia, Ross, Rod, Cliff, Jimmy, Ava, Igor, Michael, Sheila, Jacinta, I'll be sitting here, we have Dean, and we have... And we have Megan and Tanya, so we have a little treat today. We're going to be, after, we're going to be celebrating Tanya's birthday, but for now, we're going to have a guest speaker. I've been in the nose belt for a couple of decades and who will tell us all about it. Thank you. Thank you, Kat. And thanks for the magic mic.So hi everybody. I first met Bob in about 2006 or 2007. And, um... When I would walk in, when we'd walk in, he'd say, I've got nothing to give you.

There's nothing to get because what you're seeking, you already are. And I probably didn't grasp that when I came in. I thought I had an anxiety disorder. This is extremely self-centered.And Bob used to do history sometimes. One of my favorite times was he only did it once. I used to come three times a week. He lifted his shirt and showed this big eagle tattoo, you know, as an example of his former life. And he talked about... His time with Masagadata in, I think he had an awakening in 76, and they never looked back. And Masagadata said the only way you can help someone is to take them beyond the need for further help.

And what I learned from that was you probably only have to hear this message once. And I used to query why I kept coming back. I used to feel early days thatI could really sink into the knowing of the teaching when I was in this room. But when I left the room, I would be pulled out of it. And Bob would say, When, you know, you can't unknow something. Once you see this, you can't not know it anymore. And that if I immersed myself in this message, when I went so-called out there, I could draw other people in.to the message and He used to quote other texts like the Hensing Min, you know, the great way is not difficult for those who hold no preferences.

Cliff and I were talking before the meeting and You know, even babies have preferences. They'll prefer, you know, someone over someone else energetically. And there's a natural preference probably to things that, you know, Pavlovian to increase our likelihood of staying alive. But this says hold no preferences. And for me, that relates to what Bob used to talk about. Concretizing things with the energy of belief and reifying which means making it real or deifying which means making it God you know a thought rather than viewing thought as passing through like traffic or the weather, the so-called entity would seize hold of a thought and make it real and that would be the start of suffering.

And I came here because of mental suffering. I think now, Bob used to joke that they did lobotomies upstairs actually. I came here because of...suffering but this morning I was reflecting you could get here either the carrot or the stick you know by investigation one can see through the limited belief. Or if there's psychological suffering, one could see, oh, I actually can't have a so-called negative feeling without a negative thought. And it's like I hypnotize myself. I could smell something. It would remind me. Of a form of bad experience and I create suffering in that moment. But this is a way of seeing through that self-hypnosis and I'd say my desert island book is I Am That by Nisargadatta Maharaj.

And he talks, he says a lot of things about, you know, to know that I am nothing that is wisdom and to know that I am everything that is love. And between the two, my life moves.And he talks, I came here, I was unemployed, unemployable, and I was joking with Cliff, I think it was Gilbert, said you have to be poor to understand this message. But Nisargadatta said, you know, become engaged in the world, do your thing. It may profit others, but it won't profit you. And I kind of take that into my working life these days. I was studying law when I first came here and I used to sit there and really struggle with ethics.

What about, you know, I might run free, you know, if I let go of the belief in a me. I believe that's one of the last bastions, you know. The belief in an entity, I mean, initially, primitively, it's I want to acquire a warm and loving family. I want to have a tribe. I want to be in a country, you know, countries can go to war for the oil. You know, I want this notion of shoring up an individual that actually doesn't exist. I personally want a fancy car, a warm and loving family, a husband, things, you know, to shore up a fiction that doesn't exist.

And then to come here, it's like the final bastion. You know, we used to have people that had, you know, studied Buddhism for 30 years, monks, people.that had studied Hinduism for 40 years. You know, it's like this was, they used to joke, spiritual finishing school, just to see that through this last, There's no enlightenment. You know, it's very ordinary awareness Bob used to talk about. You know, there's no great. country, whatever, bang, you know, I'm enlightened. It's the seeing through in the immediacy that there is no I.Yeah, once I let go of the there's a me that has to achieve, that has to do this and that, there's this final, there's an own me to become enlightened.

And I did have a feeling like I might be the hole in the donut without the belief in an entity. And the real, oh, thanks. Thanks, everybody. Merci. Yeah, and because I was studying law, I had a real feeling that I might be ethically unsound and run amok, you know. My criminal law lecturer said he was surprised there wasn't more anarchy in society because it's actually such an intangible set of controls, the law. And it was funny that I was really stuck on that. And I was looking at a video that was made about Bob last night and I forgot I was in it. And at the time, I shared that I'd sat final year law exams with no anxiety.

And as if when I came here, I had an anxiety disorder, I was pretty sure. Because I could see the lack of importance. You know, I can say it again. And the other thing was I focused on giving the best paper rather than worrying about poor little me and what I was going to get, you know. And...Yeah, I guess I'm speaking about the work because I'm, really involved in that world at the moment and probably, I mean, my comfort is when I'm not working, I listen to Nisargadatta or Bob or read I Am That or other non-dual teachings and that's my solace. And that's reality, you know.

What comes and goes is not reality.It's been beautiful to be here. You know, I used to think, oh, how can I hold on to this knowing with physical ill health, you know? And just to watch Bob and his grace and dignity for the last four or five years, sorry, I would bring him his chip. And I'd watch his health, you know, and even with his health issues, he can still, it's not the central story, you know, the main story is the essence, ever fresh, self-shining presence, awareness that's underneath.everything and I used to have trouble with drugs and alcohol and I now see that as going kind of below thinking.

I know that's conceptual, but this is seeing through thinking or rising above, you know, really I, this is, I've always been seeking. As restless or discontent as a child, I've always been seeking the peace that passes all understanding. And because of this knowledge, I only have to hear a line like that from church or somewhere to drop into that spaciousness. And it's such a gift, though, to be able to do the dance in the world these days. And it's not, it doesn't define me. And, um, To lose the fear of death, I didn't expect that to come from being here. There's no suffering in death.

There's no loss in death. My father passed this year. There's no loss. He's still. Present. And Bob's still present.And he lives, you know, I mean, that's very conceptual, but through us continuing to share this message. I don't have much more to share, but I wanted to reflect on how it has played out material in my life, even though it's a non-conceptual teaching. And as soon as I open my mouth, I'm being conceptual. Really, we could just sit in silence and share the knowing here. But thank you for inviting me, Kat. And happy birthday, Tanja. Thank you. Don't pass it to me. I know, you just take the mic.

And I'm just going to add one thing. For those of you who haven't seen that doco, in 2016, I think Salila and Hansa made a documentary on Bob and Bob's life called There is No Such Thing as Enlightenment. And you just reminded me, yes, you were in that movie. And you look like a star. Absolutely. So, yeah, it is on YouTube. It is available for anyone who can actually just Google the title, you will see. And I remember Bob actually mentioning, because Megan, yeah, it was absolutely wonderful. Sometimes Bob would, you know, having the anniversary of the sobriety, would be unable to show up on the, well, usually two, three times a year at least, we would go to a meeting.His birthday meeting would be the one of them.

And the meeting over Alzheimer's meetings, they were the pure joy. And he was so honored and he was so celebrated in those meetings by touching so many lives. But Megan was the one who always organized the chip. And for those who are familiar with 12-step programs, Well, certain chips have to be manually engraved because they... It only went up to 50 or 60. Yeah. And so when he got to 64, I had... Sorry. Yeah, the chips that they had in the office here only went up to 60. So when he got to 64, so for the last years, I had to get it engraved and explain to the person what we were doing in Roman numerals.

Yeah. And it's a rare thing. I mean, by the time we were showing up, if Bob lived another couple of months, it would be 65 years of sobriety, which there wasn't many before who could actually show up for that number. And again, the number is just a number. It's really the demonstration of the sobriety in his mind, the sanity. Given that he used to be passed out in Flinders Street, drunk, as a sailor, yeah, to then, you know, do the health food stores and take care of his health and be able to live to 96. And a half. And a half and 64 years of body, yeah.

Yeah, that's it. And he used to joke that...But he was singing in front of Prince of Wales and other leading hotels in Melbourne. Passed out on the floor. That's right. And he used to say, you know, people would walk past him and not acknowledge him, you know, like he was a pathetic homeless drunk. And then people started coming from all around the world to see him, to this little room. And up until the last day, whenever we would go around the block or on the path or anywhere, he would always catch eye contact, smile, say good morning to everyone. There was no person. He would just look the other way and speak.

That was acknowledging the life essence in everyone. And he wasn't acknowledging a person, but the aliveness, the light of consciousness shining out of everyone's eyes. That's why some people say that even sitting in his presence and knowing that what he is seeing is not a costume, he's seeing beyond the costume, was so beautifully soothing and it was so delightful. I had a very funny moment with Bob. Whenever I used to have like a problem du jour, I used to come around and have like a personal one-on-one with Bob. You know, I'd be like, oh, this one's too big. And I'd be like, Bob, are you available?

And I'd drive around and come and see him.And he's about non-duality. He's about living in the moment, essentially. You know, it's all right here, right now. It's in the ING and the doing, yeah, or the being mainly. And one time I came around with the problem, he goes, look, You've been coming here for a while now. It's always the same thing, isn't it? Self-centeredness. Gee, it made me laugh. You know, I didn't have to come back after that really so often because every time something would come up, I'd go, oh, there's that old chestnut. I'm being self-centered again. But it's very funny because given that he's non-conceptual and talking about the present moment, that he'd say you've been coming here a while now.

But that's it. You know, I used to yell at some people to shut up. He didn't do it near the end, but back then, you know, you've seen that Sagar Dada used to kick people out. Do you know what I mean? It's not all about, I don't know, maybe I thought it'd be about Zen when I got here or, you know, but... Yeah, and for Bob, if the concepts came up, he'd say to himself, full stop. You know, my girlfriend would say, not that thought, not now. That's what she would say to herself as a mantra. And for me, I just go, oh, you're overthinking it.

That's just something, it's whatever works, you know. As soon as I start that self-centered thing, oh, you're overthinking it, and just next. Yeah. Because it's not like we're not going to have thought and we're not going to have self-centered thought. Yeah. Yeah, and that was also beautiful pointers from Bob that, you know, as you are the...discovering thoughts arising in a consciousness you're not thinking them you can't stop it because you haven't started thinking is just whatever it's just like weather on the sky the thought arises the feeling arises the perception the object of perception arises the the sensation arises and you are the space like awareness you are the sky in which that arises the recognition registering that's it that's it and then you know when you say overthinking or you know he would have another like a little tip don't go there yeah yeah just just don't go there just just withdraw attention you said that I had a quote saying It was a definition of desire, I think he says.

The desire is a fixation of the mind on idea. Starve it by denying it attention. If anything, nothing can exist without attention. The moment the stream of life-giving force of attention is... Denied or withdrawn nothing exists where is yesterday if you don't think about it i can't be conceived of doesn't exist the boredest poison mind of attachment that's it yeah so we don't hold on to it it's more seeing through it in the immediacy who is this relating to and he used to use a number of pointers you know how, you know, the sperm and the ovum and then the littlebaby it didn't we weren't going oh i need to grow a hand now back then there was there's this intelligence that's patterning the universe you know i'm not that powerful you know so um it came at it a lot of ways you know quantum physics you know if you go into the molecule into an atom and then down to quarks.

I think they zap into existence when we look at them. And then he'd talk about going into outer space.And how important here is breathing. Yeah, he would say, can you postulate anything outside of space of knowing? You know, talking about Big Bang 13.7 million or 8 million years ago. Where is it happening? When is it happening? Can you postulate it out of space? There is always that conscious space of a conscious awareness of knowing in which everything, the religion, the science, the belief system, the character defects, everything just plays out in that field of registering, in that presence, witnessing.So as I said before, my name is Ryan.

I wouldn't say bad mental health, but I've had a bad mental mind state for many years. Recently, it's just gone away. I don't think about it, and if I do think about it, I'm having a bad day. I just fully let myself feel it, cry, get angry, whatever. But back in the day, first of all, it was like I would argue with myself. I'm happy. No, I'm not. Yes, I am. No, I'm not. And that would make me angry. And then it got towards a point where I would just let it win. Then I'd be just sad. I agree for years. And then I figured that, well, I'll just let myself feel it for one day.

And then if you don't fight it, you just let yourself feel it for one day and just let the emotion fully just overcome you and say, but tomorrow I'm going to get it back on the right path again. Seems to help a lot. It does. See, this is one. And thank you for sharing that. This is really helpful because Bob was showing how majority of the psychological suffering is coming from resisting. So if there is a feeling, there is a feeling of sadness or feeling of depression or any sort of a feeling that really, really craves and begs, please see me, experience me, watch me, give me some space.

And it is being resisted.being pushed away, well, it will find unhealthy ways to manifest anyway. So why not give it a space? Just hold space for it. Let it just dance. Let it be experienced fully without any resistance, fearlessly, knowing that this is going to pass. It's not going to be there forever because the nature of that manifested reality is that it is fleeting, it's impermanent, it's nothing's lasting. Yeah, that sounds beautiful. Anyone? Cliff? No, sorry. No? I'm getting up to the toilet. Oh, sorry. No, I'll bring it. Okay, we have a couple of good morning messages from the USA and people who are watching with us.

Jay says, awesome. Bob was at my first meeting at Hamilton Newcastle in 1993. Fortunately, he and I are here today. Yeah, yeah. Here now. Yeah. When he was on his deathbed and people were, sometimes there would be a situation when people would come and cry, oh, I don't want to lose you. I've lost so many people in my life. I can't, I can't, I can't even think of having you go. And Bob would say, where would I go? Where would I ever go? Can I leave the space?And in the direct experience, if you are not sitting in front of him, but you are having loving thought in your heart, that vibration, that energy, that awareness of presence, where is it divided?

Where is it separated? How could he not be? Here and in even saying he and not he is already just conceptualizing division but the presence is always here So thank you, Jay. That's inspiring. And. Anyone?Tanya? Empty. Perfect. Empty. She's empty. Yeah, everyone's empty. That is, you know, Megan, thank you. You made everyone empty. Now there are no concepts, no questions. Just, just... Relaxing into your soothing voice of bringing up those pointers and bringing up the memories. I didn't see him showing his tits, but well, I've seen it every night. He was pretty big back then. Oh, yeah. You put him on a diet. Oh, not that you put him on a diet.

No, no, he just started eating better when he got the zest for life again, which that is what Nisar Gadada was saying. You know, why would the undividedness of the oneness of the universe want the polarity of male-female? And Nisargadatta said, well, for the potential happiness that sits in it. And that potential happiness we milked to the last drop every minute of every day of nearly a decade. It's just nine years plus. But yeah, that naturally made him want to be fit and healthy. Yeah, it was the best dream. And for someone, I had such a racing mind when I came here. And concepts like everything's perfectly resolved in the unborn mind, why exchange the unborn for thought, were very helpful.

Like it's the birth of thought you know which is the birth of the entity the fictitious I the me that everything happens to when I look at the little me that everything happens to it's usually poor little me oh yes they're doing it to me and poor little me and just seeing throughHe used to talk about heart-to-heart connection. You can tell when people are head-to-head how it plays. You're asking, trying to shore up the fiction again. And just to see through that, I'm really good at that now. I used to be... I used to go into a shame spiral, say, if someone, you know what I mean, was trying that nonsense on.

And just to be able to see through it in the immediate, see just like the clock, okay. I naturally gravitate to people where they're, I'd say, a sunny on the inside now. But I work with a lot of construction lawyers. Yeah, so I probably have a fairly small circle. Wow. Yeah, and that's... Oh, Tanya, go. You know, I say there is no separation. There is no separation. But the illusion of separation allows then, creates the opportunity for the illusion of connection. Which is part of the experiencing, which is beautiful dance. So without that illusion, then you're not talking, you wouldn't be talking aboutabout the beauty of connecting.

So they go together in allowing, creating a space, creating opportunity for having that experience. But in reality, there was never any separation, there was never any need to connect. We were never disconnected. But the illusion of that disconnection creates the opportunity to have that experience. And it's lovely. It's wonderful. It's joyful. It's beautiful. There's nothing wrong with it. There's a lot of talk about connection these days, isn't there? But Bob would say... You know, there's no relationship. You'd say every problem is a problem of relationship. Because there's a me having a relationship with the other. And they're both fiction. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But that's not to say...

It's what you were talking about. It's not to say not to enjoy what's happening. It's the human experience. Why would you want to not have that? It's, you know, part of the story is the joy of it. And it's just a play. And as Bob would say, it really doesn't matter if you don't see this stuff. Exactly.No. Because what's going to happen is going to happen. Yeah, because it's all... It doesn't matter. The question is it doesn't matter because it's... You are there. Yeah, and what's going to happen is going to happen. Yeah. You're not the doer, so... Yeah. It doesn't make any difference. Yeah.

It is what it is. Yeah. What can you do? Nothing. Nothing. Because there's no one to do it. There's no one to do it too. And there's psychological suffering if you want to grab the entity, the belief that there's a me doing it. And if I do that, there's a me doing it. There's a me that has to do it. You know, it's like that's a place of psychological suffering. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, whereas it's a play. Mm-hmm. Everything's valid in the appearance, but not as it appears. Valid in its essence, but not in appearance. Whatever's changing, coming, going, has a beginning, an end, a birth, a death.

It's all in a dream. Everything is in a dream. Everything expressed right now, right here, this is all in a dream.The only thing that, and it's not a thing, you keep saying it's not a thing, you cannot put your finger on it, you can't describe it, you can't conceptualise it, yet it's known without a doubt. That's it. Can you say more about that? Everything's valid in appearance. When you say everything's valid in appearance but um so uh what bob was saying there was this all makes sense in this all make this can make sense to to conceptually to us it can all kind of that's why It's hard to, you know, drop it.

Is that what he's saying? It's hard to talk about. The essence, because everything we say is conceptual, but like this so-called, a bunch of people came to this room, we're sitting here. There's a camera. There's got life stories. It's all valid. It's all so-called. But the seeing is that substratum, that we are the... There's never disconnection. There's only one, and it's one without a second, and it's... Ever fresh, ever new, self-shining presence awareness. There's not a problem without an entity.this vast spaciousness, this knowing. Yeah, and that's reality, because what comes and goes, us coming to the room, us leaving, is not the actual. Thanks. See, when you have the example of basic screen, you know, like basic screen of consciousness, and then different movies are put on the screen, the horror movie or the science fiction movie, have all sorts of side effects, aliens or anything, they come on the screen, they're totally valid in the movie.

They make absolute sense in the movie. They belong there. They're serious, you know, the seriousness of some suspense moments. The joke of the laughing moments, they're absolutely valid. Same within that movie, this 3D movie. There are things that are valid. You know, dying of cancer, what a valid movie. Is that a reality? No. Can anyone experience cancer in any other way than in imagination? No. Pain can be experienced, but cancer is not a pain, it's a concept. So there is a direct experience and there is this beautiful 3D colorful story that is played, is displayed in that consciousness. So within the story, it is valid.

Yes, I spent nine years and nine days with my darling husband, Bob. I spent 17 years at sea as a sailor. Valid, valid, valid within the story, within the dream, within the movie. Is it a real?Reality? Reality is this moment right now. And also what Megan was saying and Tanya touched on it also, you know, the problems of the relationships relating to the self-center, relating to the me. Now, everything that is happening is just unfolding as it should, as in the movie. But there is this program in the mind that always relates, it refers it to a me. What does it mean to me? Is it important to me?

Do I like it? How does it translate to my happiness or my aspirations or goals or plans or past or future? How does it trigger me? What does it... Everything is about me. Seeing through that program. doesn't mean it will stop it means it will be appreciated in completely different way because suddenly you see that very same program of self-obsession as another translation of loving to be you know why am i so pissed off that this bloody bugger is judging me and this one is cheated on me and this one is done that well obviously there is a loving care there is a survival instinct which translated as the thinking makes it a complaint about this body mind not having its optimal way of thriving and trying to provide it it can't do anything because it just narrates but theand urges are for that body to be well, to be happy, to be strong, to be loved.

And like you were saying, everything you want in life is for the love of being. But if you buy into it, oh shit, you know, I don't have this, I don't have that, this is not working, this is not what's wrong with me. And it's very primitive. And Bob used to talk about that, how the brain works in binary. Good, bad, loving, hating, happy, sad. You know, it's a bit like that Buddhist poison mind again, you know, aversion and attraction. So the mind, he said it's like trying to put a grid on water. You know, we are the river, you know, we're taking a bucket of water out the river and going, that's me.

But really, we are the river. And we talked about it. We think we're a wave on the ocean, but we are the ocean. And this primitive mind, it's like a computer working in binary. And there's probably a million inputs we're taking all the time. And the brain's very primitive. It's going, how does this impact me? So it's not really worth listening to. I remember an experiment Cliff did, I think, where he... Projected forward everything that was going to happen in the next two weeks and very few things did, did they, Cliff? Yeah, that's right. I was told by someone to make a little...list of all the fears I had, of all the things that could go wrong that I was worried about, and none of them came about.

I had a big list, though. So our all-powerful mind had projected into the future, and that's the birth of fear too. When we project into the future, We're actually taking the past, which we've misremembered, because we remember relative to me. And we take that fiction and thrust it into an imagined future that's going to play out differently. The problem is the me. I mean, the mind is part of the job is for the mind to take something from the past and play around with it and try and construct an idea of the future out of it. But we take it so personally and we don't like this and we don't like that and we want to change something and want more of this, you know.

And that's the birth of the problem. Then we're in conflict. And conflict comes with suffering and disease, you know. It is where it originates from, just that whole idea that there's a me with a stake in that past and future idea. And it's very primitive. It's like turning the modem off, you know, letting it all settle.and then turning it's amazing how many electronic devices that's the recommended thing to do you know when we sleep in that that's what our brain's trying to do it might make really weird stories marrying lots of different things you know because our brain's just primitively trying to process that information And really, you know, it's impossible to be bored, really, if you have a look at this, because you have to construct a past that's the same as the present.

You know, it's so many stories to construct boredom, but everything's fresh and new. Everything. There's ultimate potential all the time. You wake up in the morning and it's all fresh and peaceful for a moment and then suddenly you remember your head or we go, there'd be that joke that someone used to say, my head would be sitting on the bedside table going, I've been waiting for you. And then all the thoughts come back in, oh, yeah, those problems, what am I going to do today? And it's not a good news story. Oh, God. And suddenly the mind creates all that resistance. It's unnecessary, but it happens.

That's right. And it's primitive, like Kat was saying. I think of it like the saber-toothed tiger at the cave, you know, waking up in the morning. It's like, is there a saber-toothed tiger at the entrance to the cave?That's sort of what my brain's trying to do. What was yesterday's problem du jour that I need to pick up today to run a story and resolve an issue? And just to see it as, you know, Bob used to, you know, I used to think thoughts were so powerful. But Bob would talk about them being very ephemeral and they just dissolve like the clouds dissolve with the sun, you know, self-shining presence awareness.

The sun creates the clouds and it just dissipates the clouds and we are like the sun. And the dark clouds come and go. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, it just all arises. It arises and disappears too. It's all arising and disappearing. You know, where is yesterday's problems? They seem very real when they come up, like... But when you look back and think, well, what happened yesterday, you can hardly remember a thing about yesterday. But you lived it just like you're living today or it's always now. And Bob used to ask us to try and, I mean, it's conceptual, but... Expand that period when we wake up before the head kicks in.

That is reality. When we wake up and everything's fresh and new. It's the same as you.is big saying the book, you know, what's wrong with right now without a thought? When you really drop the thinking, it's just like that. It's nothingness, but there's no problem in the nothingness. And he'd often say, when I'd talk to him, he'd say, Cliff, take the meaning out of the thought. I used to think that was a strange thing to say, but when you realise that the thought itself can mean nothing, it's just an idea. It's just a ripple in consciousness. It's an illusion. Gods, they don't exist. That's right.

They have no materiality. They have no internal validity, veracity. They have no power whatsoever. The power is the seeming power. It's just the focusing of attention. And that's it. And Bob... Uses that really great analogy in his little, you know, Beyond Words, Beyond Mind book of the sun's rays focused through a magnifying glass on the skin burns, burns, burns, burns, agony. But when you remove the magnifying glass, The warmth of the sun's rays spreads evenly over the body and naturally dissipates. It's a great analogy.You see, there is no mind, you know, show me a mind. People are all about the mind, you know, but really it's just streaming through this thought, which I used to think was so powerful and controlled my life.

And then for Bob to point that ephemeral, like, you know, when you look at a fire and there's those little sparks of, Yeah, that's thought. And yeah, just the pointing that there is no mind. We talk more about that. Yeah, actually, that is a point where Gilbert stepped in and is bringing a highlight just as you were talking about the mind. He says, no point blaming the mind. What mind is there? If you don't think about it. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for that. Mind is a function. It's a function of thinking. And understanding the way the function works brings appreciation. There's no need to blame the thinking.

It is a conditioned behavior. No one does it. It's an autopilot. It's just a narration. And Julia... Julia Marie says, since discovering Nisargadatta, Bob and non-duality in general, the sense of me still arises once in a while, but it is easier to not take things personally so much.It is liberating to know this is all a dream and life always goes on. Nothing's personal. Listening to these talks helps so much. Thank you. Thank you, Julia. Yeah, it is in essence, yes. Looking from that non-attachment, from the perspective of just open field of curiosity and seeing the content of the dream as exactly what it is, the content of the dream, content of thinking, content of perception, content of hearing.

So with the thought of thoughts being sparks off the fire, obviously when sparks are not ignited anymore, they turn into ash, what do we do with all that ash that's being collected? Yeah, wonderful question. There's absolutely nothing to do. And the basis of the self-inquiry is, is there anyone who actually even needs to do anything about it? Because the consciousness, the field of knowing, the registering, the witnessing, there is not personal self who is responsible for any of those things. There is attention naturally going to the spark and then the spark disappears. Attention goes elsewhere. So attention is that life-giving force. The spark is gone.

The thought is gone. The past is gone. It moves wherever it is required. I had it in the...individual call yesterday with someone who had some social anxiety and stuff and we were actually just highlighting the brilliance of the fact that attention is already wired to go where it is required if there is a danger if there is like Megan mentioned the silver tooth tiger chasing you You don't want to ignore that. The life will, the force of attention, the force of that self-preservation will just make you run. And the same in the wildlife, in the animal world, where if there is attention required, let's say the animal broke a leg or the animal is hungry or an animal is chasing by the predator, that attention naturally takes its course.

But with humans, there is also a pre-programmed tendency to relate everything to myself. So that's the invitation which Bob presents to whoever wanted to resonate and hear it. Is there a self? Is there anyone who is actually to... Take responsibility to choose the thought to address that ash or that to relate all that or that spark to relate it to itself or is it just a mechanical habit pattern because if it is a mechanical habit pattern it is none of my business i'm the presence witnessing that mechanical habit pattern running of its own on autopilot and i'm amazed likeWhat a dream. Where is the attention going to go next?

Oh, it's going to some, somebody said something unpleasant and then it causes some unpleasant sensation. Mmm, fascinating. Wow. But there is nothing that anyone needs to do because there is no one there. It's just presence. The aliveness, the consciousness is present. But that presence is not a presence of a separate me, of a little person there that has a duty of care or has some agendas towards whatever arises. It's just a witnessing presence that is unlimited. It's not just in the body or in the brain or in the mind. It's here. It's looking out of these eyes. The presence is looking out and the seeing is happening.

But there is no me looking out and relating what's happening as relevant to me. This is the game of... Discovering of the of this this capacity of knowing experiencing and expressing itself in the dream through the dream as the dream it's like i think tanya mentioned initially that you know without without the duality Without the separation, there is no connection. Without the illusion of separation, that illusion of isolation, there is no awakening or no freedom because there is no...to awaken from. Animals, they don't construct an illusion of self. So they have that natural state of just pure presence for granted. They don't dwell, they don't relate, they don't weave the story of a poor, miserable little me, that the world is against me and God doesn't love me.

None of it is happening because the illusion of self hasn't been constructed therefore they can never get enlightened because they already are but they don't even know it there is no awareness of there's no appreciation of that brilliant vastness of freedom because it has never been lost it hasn't been lost in anyone is only an illusion of loss, is only a dream of separation. Separation could never be real because in direct experience, every moment, right from when the baby is born and before and always and forever in the now, in direct experience, there is a consciousness And whatever is appearing in it cannot be separate.

The body cannot be separate from the air it breathes. The thinking cannot be separated from the environment, inner or outer, in which there are triggers or stimulus arising. In the direct experience, there is no separation, and that's the truth. But this brilliant program, which constructs the illusion of self and constructs the illusion of separation, creates the dream in which everything is personal and I'm confined and I'm limited and I'm not good enough and I have to gain something and I have to understand or become or practice or dream of a different world, not this, but something else in which I'm complete, I'm not deficient anymore.

That's all bullshit. That's all storyline. In truth, right now, without that story, the consciousness and everything that arises in it, past, future, poor me story, all of it is just now completely inseparable from the knowing of it. And I am the knowing. I am the consciousness. I think Cleve has the mic. I was going to say something, Kev, but you've summed it all up so well. I can't talk fast. And the same, just a slightly different angle on it. So the animal, you know, without the conceptual symbolic language, is storyless, without a story. It doesn't carry story baggage or...Past, future, any of that. The story to the same in us as human beings is the gift, actually.

It is the gift. And if you see that, it's a movie and there's no self-identifying the me as being, you know, the entity that's affected by what's going on, and you see through that, then enjoy the story. Without the psychological suffering that we refer to. So the story is the gift. That is the experiencing. The illusion of separation is actually allowing all of this to be the experiencing. There's nothing wrong with it. It's kind of... Yeah. Yes. Sorry, anything can be a pointer too. That was something that Bob used to say. So long as you put that extra bit where you know. That's it. You absolutely know it's a story.

That's it. That's it. That's where, yeah. And then the humanness. All of this that happens, wow, what a fantastic ride, what a dance. And know that in essence, in reality, nothing sticks because that's not, you know, all that changing stuff.It's just the illusion. You've never changed. And you never will. And then, in this story, you are not the body. You are not the mind. So you are as open and as curious to discover your body, your mind, not yours, but the vehicle through which that perception is happening. So what is my next thought going to be? Let me see. I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to say next.

No clue. How fascinating. Now I'm in the mode of that relax. Relaxed but enjoyable amazement of the discovery of the curiosity how is the story going to unfold just like you watch an oscar film oscar movie and you just you're completely captivated by it but even in that captivation of it there is a stillness there is a screen in which the movie is unfolding and there is no resistance that's the beauty as there is a realization that you are not the character in the story that you are not responsible for the way the life is going to unfold you are the presence in which it is going to unfold the natural trust that this body as it was very little it learned how to walk it learned how to speak it learned it already knew how to suck on the nipple as bob would say you know whenthe little baby emerges.

It already has the skills to make the most of the dream according to its conditioning. Of course, if that was an 11th child out of a family in a poverty, it will have different skills. Then if it was a princess living in a kingdom, there will be different skills. And yet still, those skills will determine the way the dream is going to unfold because that program is on default preserving life and making the most like the loving to be the the reality of it such chitananda the awareness of presence and the preference for life loving to be the stillness the contentment will always make those skills which are most appropriate to go first for the survival there is no need to control it there is no need to uh for the illusion of control because control is impossible but there is no need to even monitor it like guard the thoughts check the thoughts coming back to the heart like Megan was saying you know heart to heart back to the heart to the love of being in there there is a joy of being there is a curiosity on life there is a trust for life because you know you don't have to beat your heart it does it of its own it's already programmed the whole body mind machine it's already programmed to beat the heart if you need to run it is already programmed to increase the heart if you need to run it is already programmed to increase the heartDon't have to control it, don't have to do anything about it.

Same if I meet a stranger. The response, the stranger might be attacking or might be unpleasant. I don't know how this body is going to respond. It is going to respond in a way according to its conditioning and all life experiences, which gives it the most chances of the most satisfactory outcome for its own survival. There's absolutely no need to worry about anything in the world. Just relax and enjoy the ride because the body is going to do as it is conditioned. There is just enjoying the ride even if the ride will say oh shit but i got the cancer diagnosis oh shit but my husband is dying oh shit but my child went into drugs Wow, wow, guess what?

In 100 years, no one, none, no one of us is going to be here anyway. What the heck? You know, everybody's going to die of something. Who cares? This dream is happening now. Worrying about tomorrow. That behavior which is going to take care of tomorrow when planning is required, it is already preconditioned. It will show up as a persistent thought charged enough to cause action. No need to worry about planning. When required, it will appear. No need about preparation, about retirement funds.If this body is conditioned to have it already in build, it will appear as irresistibly charged thought. So enjoying the ride, nothing's personal. And yet this particular movie is showing up so close, so intimately close, actually closer than the close.

Right here closer than that intimacy of being is closer than your breath and within that in that in in that being the whole dance the whole beauty unfolds didn't even say anything come on There's no chance. There's no opportunity. I mean, everyone's articulating, expressing, teaching, showing how it is. I don't know anything at all. I've got nothing to say. There's no I. So just see what comes up. Just see that. I don't know what to say. I'm just sitting here. I suppose once you realise and just let go, nothing really is important. You just let go. Nothing really matters. I mean, you can get tested and I was tested, you know, or challenged, you know.

But I knew it was happening. But most of the time these days I don't have to search. I don't have to look for anything. It just, life just happens.And, you know, yeah, I don't worry like I used to worry. I, yeah, I just let it play. Yeah, I think, you know, the best part is stop the, you know, the searching stops. And that is such a blessing, really, because once you let go and you stop having to prove, you know, my whole life since a little girl, I was always proving myself to do this. I got degrees. I did this. I did that. I did this to prove that there was something.

I always used to think there was something wrong with me. And there's nothing wrong with me at all. There never was. There never was. Yeah, there never was. I just think it's, you know, it's so much more peaceful not having to worry about it. I find it sometimes. My neighbor next door, some friends, you know, their life, her friends, their life's playing out, you know, terrible actually. But I just can see, well, it's not really real. And you just think, oh my God, you know, they're just playing at, and causing themselves all this suffering and they don't have to sort of thing but i can't no matter what i say it's not going to make any difference and that's their you know journey if you want to put it but yeah the blessing and even through my kids now like you know i used to worry about not being a good mom or you know just you know different things And it's not a, it's just a thought.It's just a thought.

And, you know, one of my sons, you know, had a few problems a few years ago. And, you know, I caught up with him, you know, yesterday. I know it doesn't really make any difference. He goes, oh, my God, Mum, you looked really good yesterday. Do you know, like, and I just thought, he's never said that to me before. Like, I know it's only a story, but, you know, like, it was just, you know. It doesn't really matter, really, anyhow. But, yeah. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. We seem to, but we, Chris, seem to often. It says in our tradition, I also came from AA too, it says that we see that we are the makers of our own problems, they arise out of ourselves.

And yet that's, for many people, that's the habit pattern, as it was for me. You know, the belief in the self, the what am I going to do about it? I'm inadequate to rise to do anything about that. That's been my life story and that sort of idea plays along when any challenge comes up.I'd have to say as a body mind, I'm very fortunate that, you know, I found another way and something brought me here to see that sort of habit pattern. And there was no one there to change the habit pattern, but the habit pattern did change. And, you know, for that, I can only say from a personal side, I'm very grateful that I'm not trapped in that dream anymore.

I know I can step out of the movie theatre if I'm not enjoying the film. But for many people... As you're talking about your neighbours, seem to be trapped. I know many people that are trapped in that illusion of self that feels helpless in the repeating habit pattern. I think when you're watching people, and I used to have to be like, that had to be right, I was right. And that's a whole lot of crock and... Yeah, and you're just saying... And I think that's the problem. Everyone goes, oh, I'm better. My problem's worse, but I have to be right because we do it this way.

And there's no right way or there's no wrong way. It just happens, you know, really. And everybody thinks they... Can control it or change it with their mind too. I know, and they can't change anything because it just makes it worse. And, you know, then it plays out in the courts, you know, and it just, and it really doesn't have to.And Julie always has such good input on bringing back to the heart of the audience. As far as bringing it back to the heart, that was just something that came to my mind. At least sometimes I do feel that that was one of the more, I think, important pointers that Bob had to me, just in general.

I mean, they're all great, so I can't pick one. But I really liked it. I did feel the heart to heart with him. You know, and in this room. And this is my comments on heart to heart is nothing to do really with non-duality, except that it's just human psychology, which is bullshit. I understand. But at the same time, I do think that if he was head to head, he would have proven me wrong, probably, successfully. But it might have come across as me going, fuck you, eventually. You know what I mean? Like, like that. It's like, um. I don't know. I think humans often forget that we're also animals.

And animals, when we're feeling attacked, We will, they do what? They fight, flight, or freeze. And in all those situations, they're not really, if you're attacking and that's your solution, to try to bring your pointers across.This is the way to do it. Make them feel like shit. They're wrong. They're bad. I feel like you might as well just keep your mouth shut. Because that silence will say a lot more. You know? Yeah. But I do, I did, I don't know, I like that heart-to-heart thing. And then I was also thinking a little bit earlier about what you were talking about, just about with the attention.

I can be guilty sometimes giving attention to the wrong shit. I mean, what's always here? I guess that's the thing. It's taken for granted. It's this empty space that's always present. So it's here. And it's always accessible. And all I have to do is just notice, oh, yeah, there's the bullshit mind narrating. It's doing that again. Okay. It's very liberating to see that, I think.Nothing wrong with now if you're not thinking about it. Nothing wrong with anything, really. I'm not really sure what else to add to that. Except those that I think what I was going to say was just as you were talking earlier about the attention, the story you've probably heard before, the feeding of the wolves.

It's a Native American story or something. And there's the. Bad wolf and the good wolf and I don't remember the details of the story but the one that is fed is the one that survives so if I'm giving a whole lot of attention to that narrative thinking and the mind and the me and I am keeping that more alive than that more real But when I'm feeding or giving more attention, and nobody has a choice. There is nobody here with a choice. And yet sometimes that happens, seemingly. Attention is given to dreams. So, you know what I mean? And sometimes, and geez, it's like what's beautiful is there's always a knowing that there's a way out is here.

You know, it's always, it's already been here. Yeah, just stop it. It's good. Thank you. That's beautiful. And also, there are situations.You know, when you hang out with people and they have concepts about you and they have judgments about you and pity on them because they blinded to the fact that there is no separation. And there is always that one life essence expressing as everything, including their concepts of separation. Oh, I know it and you don't. That is life essence showing up as a confusion. Just, you know, don't take it on board. You don't cast your pearls in front of swines. But they are, yeah, and they are people who can hear it and resonate.

And you are not a speaker. You are not the doer. You know, when the life essence shows up and comes out of your mouth, it's none of your business. And if there are people who have judgments or ideas or concepts about it, well, pray for them. Poor buggers. When we're judging, we feel like shit, I think. That is the consequence of judging. We just feel like shit because it's not nice to be like, and I've been there. I was like that last night, just a little bit about somebody. Personal in my life. I have a concept. I know it's bullshit. In the moment, it was believed to be true, and then when that happens, I do feel like shit.

But you're right, they're only concepts, and this is something that I realised a while ago, is you might walk into the room and think, oh, everyone's thinking this about me or something, or rather, But when you're in the room,and somebody comes in, you might think something about them, but how long does it last? It's fleeting, these fleeting ideas, and we take them to be real. And I think you know what somebody else is thinking. I remember we played a game in here many years ago with Bob, and we all had to go around the room and say about someone else, like, Kat, I don't care what you think about me because it's only a concept, and we each did this to someone else in the room.

And you just realise such thoughts are just... Really very fleeting and they mean nothing. They mean nothing. And yet we take them as real. And it changed too. Yeah, it's like in the Hensing men where it says hold no preferences, so it's hold no opinions, you know. We all have opinions, but we hold no opinions. And Bob used to say everyone will have an opinion about you. And you have a concept and opinion about yourself, but which one's right? And the answer is none of them because they're all concepts. And you had a good point about one and the other. You can't have another without a me, the belief in an entity, because it's happening to me.

And I was saying my friend said the other day that if... If there's self-pity plus they're doing it to me, plus don't they know who I am, then that's the...of the defects, so-called defects, you know, they know who I am, they're doing it to me. And that's all just this obsession and really, Even our own self-concept can change throughout the day, you know, our own opinion of ourself, let alone our opinion of other people. And they're just fictions. And I've had amazing things happen with that and resentment in that, you know, in the letting go, although there's not an entity to let go. You know, things change, relationship change, you know, the so-called relationship in the appearance completely changes.

The tension dissolves. It's called Miracle in Course in Miracles, when the ancient hatred became a present love. When a move from fear to love, because hatred underneath that's fear. It's very primitive again. Yeah, when you don't hold the opinion, when you don't hold on to your concept. Don't concretize it with the energy of belief. That's what Bob talked about. I love this concept of deifying my thoughts, you know, making my thoughts God. No wonder I'm in suffering if I'm in that space. Yeah, as they say, mind is a wonderful servant, but it's a shitty master.It literally makes the word God. And Bob would remind us of that, saying, you know, in the beginning was the word.

That's the beginning of all your suffering, is belief in the word as if it's got the power of God over anything, when in fact it's powerless. It's the attention. And the belief, whatever word you want to use, that seemingly makes it matter. And as you said, Julia, what's focused on is what you're going to get. But then Bob would say, I'm not talking to you, you know, the little mini me, Julia. I'm talking to that knowing which is speaking. There's never anything else.I remember Bob saying, well, how did you get here? And everyone would say the internet or whatever. And he goes, no, that, your essence really got you here.

So you needed to wake up to that sort of thing, to who you are. Yeah, because really no one really got us here. It just happened, didn't it? The 10,000 things, the infinite amount of factors that made us actually find in this moment right now. And I have the comment from Tanya, what about resting as awareness and noticing that awareness is not affected by anything that appears in it and that which you are aware of can't be you. Is that is that is what helps or makes it more obvious what you are not and what you are not and take the power of belief out of conditioned belief and then that you are that which is aware and awakening happening That's beautifully put, Tanya.

That's perfect. That's exactly it. There is a sky. Yeah, just here. There is a presence in which everything that is known, everything conceivable, perceivable, perceptible happens.And we in the language, like Megan was saying, you know, the moment you open your mouth, you speak concepts. So concepts, the language is subjective. The word was God. And in the beginning, that is the beginning. The beginning of duality is that word. And the word made everything. The word is God and it makes everything. So when we say there is an awareness that is unaffected and then there is a content, it seems like there are two things. But really, when you look even from the perspective of that quantum physics or quantum mechanics in which you have the field of infinite possibilities, the field of stillness with the potential of movement, which is the energy and the energy coming into existence as the 10,000 things in all the ways, patterns, shapes and forms.

Then, of course, finding out, realizing that because you are the whole world, the whole existence, the whole appearance is. Without it, there is nothing. But they are not two. And will you say, take the power of belief out of conditioned belief, and then that you are which is aware and awakening happens. Yeah, awakening is recognition of what's already and forever here. It is a recognition. There is no one who needs to awaken. The awakening is from the illusion of being separate self, which has never been real. So it doesn't even need any separate self to be obliterated or switched off or deflated. It hasn't been real.

It's like taking off the mask. That is not who you are. And the mask doesn't even have to be taken off. The costume is still handy to wear. There's nothing wrong with having the personality or this is a vehicle of expression. The life essence, that field of energy, it needs the eyes to see. It needs the ears, the voice, all of it. It needs, it doesn't need it, but it has it, so it is being utilized. The other thing Bob used to, I think he used to use God and love interchangeably, but he was a bit reluctant to use the word God. Yes. Because in the beginning God was...

Yeah, it was good. Yeah. People have a lot of attachments to that word God, a lot of concepts. Mental images. Yeah. That's right. So he preferred self-shining presence awareness. Yes.But I think he did use... Intelligence energy. Yeah, he used to use God and love, you know, just... Interchange, yes. Yeah, he would say they call God love. So love is God and God is love. So one could say that one essence, that one energy is the energy of love, is the loving to be showing up as everything. He would also call it, that was Krishnamurti's concept, intelligence energy. Because it is energy, energy cannot be destroyed, but there is an order, there is an intelligence, there is a brilliance in which the planets are formed, the sun is shining, the cells are replaced in the body, the heart is beating, the thoughts are coherent.

There is a brilliance in the way that energy is showing up. And even with love, you know, he was always talking about it's not that. Romantic idea of love you know I love you I love you I hate you the bitch did that to me you know like it's not that kind of possessive kind of yeah me and the other it's this Love of being. Energy, it's actually demanding. Come on, give us a word. In the beginning, what was the word?Everyone summed it all up, covered all bases, all areas are clear. Any questions? I mean, I look at it all and everything collapses. Every discussion, every pointer, every teaching, every God, every deity, every understanding.

Every principle, everything actually just collapses and it just becomes the aliveness, the self-shining presence, the immediacy. And so no one has to know anything, no one has to actually learn anything, no one has to get what's actually been spoken in this room in any way. Because it's so self-evident, so real, so palpably existence itself, life itself, the presence, the absolute aliveness is undeniable. And it's like that, what knows this? There's no Noah. There's just this knowing. And the knowing is... conceptless. There's no concept you can put on it. You just know that it's the existence itself. It's the same existence everywhere. So that's where it's one.

We're not having different existences happening. There's one essence. Expressing as the array of every person, every idea, every concept, every pointer, every Buddha and Jesus anduniverses and aliens and whatever you want to go. It's just this one thing. And so you can't go wrong. You can't fuck it up. You can't miss it because you can't avoid it because you're never there to, there's no entity as such to try and get it, to try and, you know, attain it, get away from it, become into it or out of it or in it. It's impossible because everything is that. And that is all there is. So meetings will continue, teachings will continue, pointings, readings, understandings, basking in this essence of whatever.

But you can do yoga, you can meditate, you can take ice baths. You can go and do unruly behaviors. It really makes no difference in that sense. So see it all as a dream and be done with it. And seeing it as a dream includes every aspect. So there's the boundlessness or the freedom is... There's no container in which anything's limited. And everything goes. So tragedies, dramas, everything is included. And nothing can escape it. Nothing is outside it. There is no outside it. There's no inside it either because it's just that. And that's why everything is that.That's why in the beginning was the word. And every word is that, in a sense, it's an energy, it's a pattern of energy.

It has no, it's not significant, it has no significant power, but it's still, it's equally valid as a dream, in the dream, as the dream. As an expression or the description or the story of the dream. And like, you know, all stories can be a total celebration, they can be a total tragedy, and it's still a story. And it's still every iota of it is a dream, dream appearing as a thought. Dream appearing as a string of thoughts, and the string of thoughts appearing as a story. And everything that has just been described is always immediate, is always now. There is no, there's no, it's a timelessness because Because it's always the same presence.

There's no different presence. There's no that presence and the next presence. And even saying now implies before and after, but that's why immediate, it's so immediate that it's beyond now or later. Or before or after, and yet the ideas of before or after appear immediately. So everything is absolutely, totally and complete and absolutely perfect.Like it is a great perfection because of that non-conceptualness. When there's no concept, everything is perfect. And when there is a concept, it's still perfect. And just there's an idea describing it, saying it's not, which is an idea appearing as the totality, as that. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, baby.

And back to... That's the spirit thing. You know, Bob used to open with, you know, I've got nothing to give you, there's nothing to get because what you're seeking, you already are. There's nothing that needs to be changed. Beautiful. And actually, seeing the dream for what it is, you know, like just seeing the capacity for dreaming, what an incredible capacity is this. The capacity to think of, oh, what am I going to do tomorrow? That is exchanging unborn Buddha mind for a thought. But if you see that exchange happening spontaneously without any doing, the thought arises out of nowhere. What am I going to do tomorrow?

With that thought comes an idea. Maybe I'll go to work or maybe I'll catch up with this one or maybe I'll go for a walk or for a swim. Wow, all those worlds. Appearingthe imagination with the thought all the dreams appearing in the imagination only because i am because there is an existence because i am the world appears and the dreams of the world with every thought I can have a thought, oh, I wonder how my mother is doing. She's got so much trauma in a childhood from the past. There is another movie coming up in the screen. And it's juicy and it's emotional and it's rich and it's full of details.

And the more attention goes in it, the more real it appears. And then there is an element, oh, my mother. So I care differently. Wow, look at the wonder of it. All happening because I am, not I the person, but the existence, the presence. If there was no presence of consciousness, that ever fresh presence awareness, that dream could not come into existence. And even if there is no thought, even if there is no thinking for a moment, what's wrong right now if I don't think about it? This dream is still appearing. There are sounds. There are sensations in the body. There are smells. There are sights.

There are eye contacts. There is so much going on. Here.Okay, Heyman is going to give us a little... I'm just going to read some. Please. Recognize this happening recognize this happening and the immediacy of pure essence is obvious and evident as is clear and empty pure knowingness only this nothing elseThe key is to be free of thoughts. And three times, no remain, sorry, to remain in presence, awareness, wakefulness. Thinking is the expression of knowingness, cognizing. It does not come from any other place. It is not independent.Recognizing the essence, the expression dissolves. Recognize that spontaneous presence appears with no self nature and that it is beyond and substantiality or independent entity whatsoever.

Unborn mind or unmade present, wakefulness, consciousness, awareness, cognizing awareness, I am-ness, etc. Is simply the experiencing right now. There is hearing of sound. That is because of the present wakefulness in the body.There is that knowingness essence animating the body right now, enabling the hearing to take place. Without that living essence, the body is a corpse. And there is no consciousness that hears, no cognizing. The body does not experience. It is that knowingness or intelligence energy which experiences patterns, vibrations.Leave the mind unemployed. In this In its essence, mind is unborn, non-dwelling, and non-disappearing. When it said thought free, Bob used to stress that it doesn't mean, as you were touching on, yeah, thought less or that thought's the enemy.

It's thought moving through. I'm not grabbing hold of it and concretizing it and running a story about it. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's exactly it. It could still be coming and going, but just because it's seemingly, you know, so far in the background, it can feel or can seem or can appear as if you're thoughtless. But, you know, if there is a refocusing with effort, you're still there. I'm going to go. And we have a thank you message from Tanya. Says, beautiful Kat, Megan and Dean all answered my questions so clearly and perfectly. Thank you. And Julia says, thank you for another amazing meeting and much love.

And thank you everyone.Much love. We're going to go and celebrate Tanya.