This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
And we start from saying our names. Tim, Kathy. Jane. Jane. Cash. Ross. Ross. Dean. Dean. So, uh... Okay, shall we just start? Yeah, so we're starting from the invitation. Whoever wants to swap the chair and do the spill. Anyone for taking? Even five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes, whatever. Call? No? Kathy? Jane? No? No? Okay. Okay. No worries. Tanya? No. But you didn't. No. No. No at the moment. Okay. So, Ross, we will wait for you too. One day. Okay, so let's dig into it. The non-duality, the awareness of presence, or ever-fresh presence awareness. Just this and nothing else, says the slogan. And it really is about just this and nothing else.
What the slogan says is that there is nothing else. Everything that you see here,here and experience is in its nature nothing and you can really see it very easily when you look at what you've experienced yesterday what is it now nothing or majority of things that you experience in your daydream in your fantasies when you hear your mind chatting and ruminating and narrating well is it it is all nothing the thoughts do they have any substance or feelings what are they they're just echoes in the body some vibrations everything really is nothing the vibration it's not nothing bob would say but it's not a thing when you look around and you see solid objects in the in the field of seeing and you hear sounds in the field of hearingWhat are they?
They're just vibrations, they're just subtle vibrations of life essence showing up as those forms, fleeting forms, showing up and disappearing, flickering. Like stars, like little sparkles of reflections of light. Whatever it is, the sensation, the sound, the sight, the thought, the mental image, they all know things. So what is the thing then? The thing is that ever fresh presence awareness. Is it really a thing? Hi, Jimmy. You get a big chair here or you get the sofa there.So even the awareness of presence is not a graspable thing. And yet it can't be denied. And yet, because of it, everything else is. All the other no things, all the other vibrations appearing as something, exist only because there is a field of consciousness, because there is an observing, there is a knowing.
If there was no aliveness, that animating essence, that presence, that awareness of presence, whether those things are, those no things are or they are not, is irrelevant.So because it is, and it undeniably is, that is what is called reality. That is just this and nothing else. That thisness. That thisness of the awareness, of the presence, of the aliveness, of the consciousness. The radiance of being. That can be celebrated, that can be acknowledged, that can be experienced, but not as an object, but as an experiencing itself. It is the experiencing itself. And within that, everything else appears and disappears. Every other form. Fleeting form because even from that perspective even a thought is a fleeting form the feeling is a fleeting form and this is how another slogan says the emptiness becomes the form it patterns shapes and forms the emptiness the cognizing emptiness becomes a form and it's not even in a process of becoming it just is simultaneously emptiness is form form is emptiness the nature of each form is empty And yet it appears.
It appears as a form, as a vibration. So with the ever fresh presence awareness.just this and nothing else, bringing the attention back to just this and nothing else. Acknowledging just this and nothing else, instead of ignoring the awareness of presence and getting lost in the maya, in the dream, in the intricacies of all the experiencing, in the stories of the mind. Acknowledging that awareness of presence, that existence, that delight of being, first giving it due credit, giving it due recognition. Suddenly put all the dream in a different perspective. Suddenly everything that comes and goes loses its sting. It is just an appearance. It is just a phenomena.
And this is the way of living. When you look at the animals, they're walking around the cats here, the way of living in a natural state.always being aware of existence. And that existence appearing as seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Present experiencing. Present hearing. Present hearing. Present seeing. Present sensing even the thinking when it's experienced as a present activity rather than just being followed and completely to the point of ignoring the present moment the thinking is not a problem it's quite delightful The thinking is just like any other activity of the body-mind machine. It's just like hearing. You are hearing the noise and you are hearing the thoughts in the mind.
When you give them the same importance, they're just phenomena. They're just an expression. But they happen, those expressions, whether the hearing of a thought or hearing of a car, happen in that ever fresh aliveness, that incredible radiance of being, of presence. So what a different worldview. Just being the presence, being the life, being the essence of consciousness.experiencing in this moment the current breath, Current sounds. Current narrative, whatever it is, sites, versus the reality imposed on it by the mind. Imposed by a story that natural ever freshness covered up by the regurgitated story of me not being enough world not being good enough people not loving me or respecting and any other sense of suffering coming from that obsession about me relating to the me the world of suffering, the world of isolation, separation, loneliness, incompleteness, horror of being not enough, not lovable.But it doesn't have to be this way because Bob invited all of us and many before him.
And really, if you have an eyes to see, you see that message, that obviousness everywhere. Everything invites you to explore this moment as it is. And if you do, if you do it fully, there is no... There's no processing capacity to create that conceptual image and sustain it. If your attention is fully immersed in seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, being, breathing, the construction of not good enough, poor, miserable, separate little me doesn't really happen. It needs, for that construction, needs a lot of processing power. So the attention has to be withdrawn from the current reality.So Bob would always say, Stay in unfixated awareness with five senses wide open whenever you can.
Sometimes the functioning requires absolute focus and precision, but even that happens in that relaxed, natural, space-like, sky-like awareness. And it's none of your business, really. If the body requires to attend to itself, or if the world requires attending to itself, it happens without any doing on any part by anyone. So this is the invitation to actually look and see the difference between functioning the way the cat functions or a little baby functions or a tree or someone who doesn't believe in being that mental construct. Just being open, being sky-like, being the presence.completely unconcerned with anything that is not happening right now. Naturally following whatever calls for attention without any resistance, not objecting to anything that happens, versus the situation of constant resistance, constant tension.
Of identifying as something or someone that's not enough, that is in charge of the game, that needs to navigate, control the game, that needs to manipulate other people to like me, or myself to forgive myself, or whatever other forms of control or manipulation coming from the illusion of being in charge. Takes place. This is the nightmare. Realizing that there is no needto control or manipulate anything. Because life goes on of itself, by itself. It self-organizes. If there is any need for attention to do anything, it will be known in a moment. If there is any need for an action, it will be known in a moment.
If there is need for planning, it will make itself clear. There is a need for planning and it will happen in a moment.There is no need to take credit for any of it. There is no need to say, I must do it, I must look into it, I must plan it, I must manipulate them or control myself or any of it. This I idea is just a program that is taking credit for the actions that are effortlessly happening of themselves. Just like the action that are happening through the planet moving around the sun there is no one doing it just like the sun shining of itself the heart beating of itself the thought appearing of itself there is no one doing any of it and there is no need to imagine that there is anybody there inside that needs to get something, understand something, or stop something, achieve something, become someone.
This idea about someone being there needing to achieve or get somewhere is exactly that, an idea. And what's idea? That's nothing. That's just a fleeting vibration. No thing. There's nothing there. And suddenly, that crazy mad idea gets all the credibility, gets all the energy, gets believed in.and creates a nightmare. I am this poor, miserable little human creature who never gets it, never get enlightened, never understand anything, or what wouldn't I do? You know, I can meditate for a thousand hours or eat appropriate food and wear appropriate clothing. Oh my God. All that conundrum comes from the way the energy of belief, which is just one energy.
There is no energy of belief versus energy of non-belief. It's just one life essence, one life force, just like the energy going through the lamp. Electricity creates light. Just like the electricity going through a vacuum cleaner creates vacuum. The same energy going through the body-mind creates a belief, assertion.So that energy which becomes a belief. Creates a nightmare. When you see how it happens, when you see how that energy moving through the lamp creates a light, moving through the body create the seeing, the capacity for seeing, and moving through the mind creates the capacity of dividing that scene. I think we had another accident here.So that same energy creates the accident.
That same energy, the accidents are not really very bloody here. I've never seen a drop of blood and I've seen a multitude of those. They take quite scratches really. Nonetheless, they attended to. So the same energy that creates the capacity for seeing, if it moves through the vehicle of the body and through the device of the little cameras installed there, it creates the capacity of seeing. And the same energy moving through that other capacity, the neural networks, so-called, of the mind creates the capacity of dividing it into a subject object. One singular capacity divided into subject object. I the seer. This is I. This is me.
There is someone there. But is it really?It is only imagined, it is only the thought, believed, that creates the illusion of self, of separate self. The certainty of existence is undeniable. It happens whether you believe it or you don't believe it. But translating that capacity of pure existence into the idea of this is me, the little self, the little ego, or a little soul, something separate, that one is imagination. It can be questioned. Because without the thought, I can't tell what I am. I can't tell I am little self or I'm a person, I'm female. I can't. This is just a thought. This is just that energy running through that simulator, that projector, which creates mental images through a use of language, of symbolic language.And it is a brilliant phenomenon when you look at it, when you see how that whole constructed world comes into existence through the act of a rising mental image or thought fueled by the belief made real by the belief just like a santa claus in childhood made real by general agreement this is it this is reality or the flat earth Or the sun moving around the earth rather than the other way around.
Belief. You are one. I hope you are not really. We're just exploring here. But those who still believe to be a separate entity are only one thought away, one layer of veil of imagination away. And that is that thought of identity. I'm something separate. I am something, full stop. You are. But what you are is unknowable. Because you are that. You can't vacate yourself, step outside and see what it is. Because then it's not you anymore if you step outside. So you can't really know what you are. Looking for myself. What self?can't know what you are but that you are the fact of existence is undeniable it can't be questioned it can good luck with that it just can't it just can't be undermined So this pure existence is the natural state.
Definition, the cage of concepts built around it. I am not pure existence. I am existence in this body. I am existence in this mind. I am existence in that costume of imagined self, poor, miserable female. Australian or Polish or whatever. Those concepts, those ideas are like a tight costume, like a cage.They appear spontaneously and they're useful when they are treated lightly. Like Andrew was saying the other day on our Zoom meetings, wearing the world like a light garment. That was a quote from the Bible. So it is really any identity, any shape-shifting identity is just a navigational aid. It's a beautiful function. It's a function that makes those human patterns, those pack animals, create a fabulous, fabulous stories and shift and dance in the groups.
Group of 12 step, group of women, group of Australians, group of football supporters. All those little identities, if they are treated lightly, they make that beautiful dance of just moving like a wheel without getting stuck in anything. But very often, when believed fanatically, that identity of being spiritual seeker becomes an armor, becomes a cage. Really, really tight costume of, I'm not good enough, I'm spiritual seeker, how do I get out of it? Well, you can't. Because you're not in it.Only imagine that you are. When you put that thought aside and ask yourself what is wrong with right now, if you don't take that thought of being that identity, that me, that separate something or the other, what's wrong then?
And you see that this existence still goes on. You haven't been diminished in any way or enlarged. Nothing happens. The seeing is happening. Hearing is happening. Everything happens naturally by itself.It's just one idea that's been put to rest. That was completely unnecessary because without it, life goes on. That idea, I am a self, I am separate, I am Katarina, I am a person, I am a woman. I'm limited. I'm unlovable. I'm not good enough. I'm incomplete. I'm separate from the world outside. Whichever that one idea is, or maybe a cluster of ideas, that's all they are. They're just an idea.So life is really simple if you take the ideas for what they are.
And just see them as part of the phenomenal manifestation. Just the way you look at the tree. You look at the idea the same way. And who is looking? If you believe that there is a you witnessing the tree and you witnessing the idea, who knows about that witnessing presence? Who witnesses the one who is looking?Initially, there may be an idea that, okay, I get it. I can expand the horizons. I can have this unfixated awareness. But there is still an I. There is still the credit-taking pattern that, oh, this is me. I'm doing it. But really looking for that I and seeing if there really is anyone or anything that does anything.
If there is anyone that is doing the breathing, that is doing the heartbeat, digesting the food, thinking thoughts,watching the tree or the salt. You can see that there is nobody necessary to take credit for any actions. Just like the pulse, the blood flowing through the body happens of its own through self-organizing universe. The microverse of the human body or the blood cell, all by itself. No need for any volition, no need for any controller. That's just what's happening. Cut a scrolling between the ladies there. That's just what's happening. It doesn't take any credit for any of it. Just walking all over and finding a nice cozy place.
No. So in the same way thoughts are happening, in the same way attention is flowing from one cat to the tree, to a person, to the chair, to the thought. If you see that even watching the flow of attention is not done by anyone, the flow of attention happens of its own. Attention is flowing, is moving from thought to thought, from object to object, from sensation to sensation.And it is known. Even though there is no me watching it and knowing it. It is just a pure knowing. Movement of attention is happening and is known. Now the idea comes, yes, this is I. I see it.
I understand it. I witness it. And now the next idea comes, and that I is limited. It has boundaries. It was born and it will die. See, watching is happening of its own, knowing, cognizing emptiness happening of its own. And then the mind comes and says, this is I, I do it, I the witness.before the mind comes and claims it, still knowing is happening. Without saying, I know, everyone is aware of the sounds outside, of the temperature, without needing to translate it to the thought, without needing to label anything and everything in the room. Everything is known. And there is no self or no person that needs to claim it.
It's just the mind that comes and adds that. And again, Bob would say, what's the mind? There's no mind. It's no such thing. The mind is an activity. It's activity of thinking. That's what we call it, what we label as mind. Spontaneous natural activity like activity of breathing or activity of sweating or digesting it's a natural spontaneous activity the thinking narrating judging labeling comparing spontaneous activity that evolved through imitation in a little child and it is going on of its own by itself nobody does this but this activity has the capacity to interpret the world at the meaningAnd if that activity is given a lot of attention to the exclusion of the happening, of the present happening, well, the overlay of the reality completely imagined, made of interpretations and stories, is being believed and perceived as reality.
And now this is where the nightmare comes. The world's against me. The world is going bananas. People are destroying each other. People are destroying the habitat. All those things, when believed, become the reality. And how about this moment right now without the thought? The present seeing, hearing, touching the cat.potentiality of all that non-existent imagined worlds world of people sharing loving kindness love of people finding a way to help and assist love of the animals to their owners and the other way around whatever you want to think other countries other political affiliations so much straight away when the attention goes there it gets believed into reality and you can see you can literally see how that incredibly rich colorful dream shows up right in front of your eyes the whole multiverse of the dreamingand enjoy it rather than being sucked up and tortured, tormented by it.
That's frankly what the non-duality is about. To realize that nothing is wrong. That whatever is happening is this present moment right now. It has no meaning. It has no attributes. It just is as it is.all ideas about it and meanings added to it and the past and the future. Is the creation of that overlay of that translating services is the constructed so-called reality which doesn't really exist apart from imagination And then you can appreciate the imagination. Then the world in love with itself because there is no you appreciating it's just the appreciation it's just the loving to be it's just the seeing you the life seeing the reflection of yourself infinite creativity the dream flickering all around reflection of that infinite existence appearing in thousand ways one essence patterning shaping forming appearing and expressing as everything as this moment now, that will never be the same again.C'est là ?
You have spoken this world into existence.but it only appears partially. For instance, hole sitting over here. But unless I turn and look at him, he doesn't exist. So he's an appearance. Everything is an appearance. Bob used to say, phenomena is that which appears to be.So we sort of hoodwink ourselves into thinking that this is real when it's only, it's nothing. Given attention, it appears, it appears to be. And the view can only be partial because... There's no boundaries to it. And what's at the approaching the boundary.disappears into nothingness. So, um, We see through glass darkly. But we being the light itself,can see the reflection in a partial way.
I don't quite know where I'm going here with this. No one has ever known where they're going.I've run out of track. Yeah, look. Come here and sometimes I wonder well what do I come here for you know and and we talked about lots and lots of ideas and then and that they are all all of them ideas they're all ideas or they're stories aboutsomething that's a bit more real than this is or or not quite that but that they come over stories and I wish we could sort of get a bit more grounded and sort of discuss what's really going on here. You know? Go for it.
Huh? Go for it. Well, I am. I am. I am. Don't say it. I don't know what else to say except that there isn't a sort of discussion here about this sort of thing. There's a listening and then there's a talking without actually commenting on anything that anybody ever says. It's like, and I feel... Sometimes, I can't really sort of say what I think about that because nobody else does and it's probably not appropriate to sort of do these sorts of things. So I'd like to see the... I'd like to see the session live up a bit so the people were actually talking to each other and engaging with each other.of this stuff because it's it's it's bloody interesting stuff it's important it's stuff that affects our quality of life and everything that's what i'd like to see i don't know how to make it happen Well, I just did.
Okay, so did Ross. You go on. So did Ross. Yeah. And so did Kat. Yeah, okay, but the problem is that that perpetuates it, doesn't it? That's, in a way, there's nothing really to do. I'm just expressing how I feel about it. Yeah? It would be, that's all I'm saying. Sure. I'm not trying to alter anything. No, I'm not. I'm just telling you how I feel about it. Sure, yeah. Yeah? I think, no, I think. Oh, Mike. Yeah, Mike. No, thanks, Sally. I just think, uh... It's interesting what you said because, you know, we're pointing to something that can't be described. And, you know, we do our best to point in a million myriad different ways to something that's unnameable.
That it's formless, timeless, shapeless, you know, but we do our best to point and to talkabout non-duality so that then someone else can talk about how they see it. But it's actually a bit of a paradox, isn't it? Because my mum used to say anything that's infinite can't be named. You know, so we're these little finite alleged people, you know, or personas or images trying to talk about something that's infinite or nameless or timeless, spaceless, omnipresent, omniscient. You know, and they're just names too. So, but there's something, heartwarming about trying to point to that as something that ignites you, you know, and stimulates, I guess, the heart.
That's why for years and years, 40 years, nearly. I've been sitting in rooms like this talking about something I can't describe because I love it and I love hearing other people's perception. But in actual fact, all it is is impermanence here. All it is is you know,these alleged personas come into existence and then they go. You know, nothing ever happened. It's all oneness, you know, and that all sounds very airy-fairy to someone that's never actually heard it before. But it is actually fact, as you know, as a scientist. You know, there is only one. Everything's been broken down to one. So it's actually scientifically proven as well.
And yet we sit around in rooms like this pointing to something we can't name or claim. And yet that's what the nature of the mind is, the alleged mind or the narration is to name and claim everything from a memory of who we are, you know.Okay, thanks, doll. So, so, so. I agree with you and I'm not really talking about that. Okay, I'm really talking about, you know, that there are, I mean, I don't know really anything about anybody in this room. Like, it's like, When Kat sits up there and talks, I think, yeah, she's got it. She's pretty clear. And there is a sort of a, and it's not as if it's right or wrong, but there's a sort of a connection there, okay?
A connection that we're sort of... The same sort of animal or whatever, yeah? And I can relate to you because of the sorts of things that you say and your perception of this, okay? And there's other people in the room who I can say that about too. But most of the people in the room, I don't know. I don't really know. And this started off when I started to come to Bob's. It started off with everybody being totally sort of... Totally, what can I say?in searching mode and I was in that position too. Yeah, I was in that position too. And most of it was asking, always Bob, asking, well, You know, you say there's no me, but what does that mean?
You know, and it was a dialogue and we actually talked about this sense of me and how it seemed to affect people who had it and how it seemed to affect people who didn't. Okay, so I don't know whether anybody else in this room, I mean, I spend quite a bit of my time talking to people who, when we talk about a sense of me, they... They say, well, I wish I was like you. I wish I had no sense of me. Yeah? And we talk about that. And it's a very live conversation. But I don't know.I come back and I say exactly the same thing.
I don't know why I come here because I don't really know what anyone else thinks about these sorts of things. All I'm doing is expressing how I feel about it. Yeah. And I would really like to know how anybody else feels about this. About the sense of being. About this sense, not about the sense of being, but about the sense of what we, well, yeah, that particular and... What it is about coming here and this topic that they come here for. What is it they're looking for? I've only got one comment on. There you go, Charlie wants to say something. I just have got a comment on the, but like, I would probably say that Yeah, you didn't, it was just sort of being abstract, but when you stepped under a level, you wouldn't put it that way anyway, was the, like, knowing and playing.
So the perspective here is there's no knowing and there's no plan. It's just, but I think we get caught in not saying it in the simplest way sometimes. And then I guess it's understanding where the audience is coming from as well, like how simple they can go or not. But yeah, here there's just this life and either nothingarises to make a comment on it. So in that case, no knowing, no play, no consciousness, no awareness, just nothing. Just, I mean, as I keep saying here, like, it's just like a, really just a oil painting that just goes on forever, where nothing rises to comment. And yeah, just other things are assumptions that also arise.
They're not any less part of that oil painting, you know. Yeah, yeah.Yeah, Cole's expression of how he would like to experience things or how things might be slightly different or altered or changed or modified. Let's look at what's actually happening right now. What's actually happening as you speak? What's actually going on? So the thought or an impulse or something is coming up that says, I want. Things to be different. So what's actually happening is this vibration that you can't grasp, that you can't hold on to, that we call a thought, is coming up and there's a focusing on it and then there's a sort of a channeling into it, linking to an eye.
A me, a centre that wants something to be other than how it is right now. And then you go, well, and that's not to say there's nothing wrong. We're just investigating what's actually happening. That sense of I, when you stopped speaking or when the thought's gone, is oof, it's gone. You're sitting just aware. And then there's another pattern comes up in response, stimulus.Stimulus response, stimulus response. And then it's balls back in your cup. And then it comes up and then there's an expressing. But nothing really sticks, does it? You sit in here and it's gone. It's gone. And the same thing could also be expressed because Jane was also saying, and Cole and Tony, in a way with completely like really, really ignoring the idea that I is real and it takes anything on.
Like, you know, Jane was saying, oh, we are trying to, you know, like this is heartwarming. So we are trying to describe the indescribable. And it's beautiful because it touches the heart. And what you say is also heartwarming. Look, you know, I'd really love everyone to shine and explore with the whole glory. And now if we take the I out of the equation and say this is the life essence vibrating through Jane and expressing as those words, the same life essence vibrating through you and expressing as those words. And there really isn't anything going on at all. Nothing ever happens. There is no idea of explaining, changing or exchanging.
Anything is just energy moving is just a flow of that energy which nisargadatta would call love this is all love love that comesup and says this is shit you know like i remember the boys that 10 15 years ago that i used to come here they would threaten each other pull each other's hair and really fight about concepts and they say those meetings are shit now nothing like this is happening you know maybe it was rough but it was lively So again, this is also love speaking and saying, oh, you know, appreciation for the roughness of testosterone and now appreciation for, you know, like. To the point in which the comparison, because the same energy translated through the mind, through the faculties of that machine, brings the comparison, brings the relating, brings the judgment, and brings the illusion of self, as if there really was an ego.
And I'm ego, I know, this was shit, this was good. But there is only an illusion of self. Self is never real, even in situations like that. When life is going through, expressing as a selfishness, self-centeredness, there's still no reality to the sense of self. The reality comes only, same reality, to the dream character which suffers. That's the only seeming reality. Having a nightmare, when you have a nightmare, of course, it feels real. It is real in a way.Then you shake it off. What is it? Where is the nightmare from five years ago? Where is the childhood trauma right now if you don't think about it?
It's just an altered behavior. The same life moving through the body conditions differently, traumatized. So it's a different expression. But the idea that there is a middleman somewhere, the self, oh, you're related to an ego. No, it's the life itself utilizing the function. Once this is seen,The seeing of it. already makes even that relating function light like I can say oh I love your earrings I love it and oh relating to the eye oh there's an ego still there because it says I love it no there is life expressing appreciation through the conditioned body And part of that expressing appreciation is also expressing resistance and wanting to change.
You know, the cut came in between you ladies. Well, obviously, following the impulse to change what is, alter it, modify it and correct it and make it more pleasant. But the story about I am the cat, I don't like it the way it is, I like it differently, doesn't arise because of the faculties there. So again, it's beautiful to just have these conversations in a way of just being a translation between the dream character perspective and the life's perspective. And then everything is appreciated because dream character's perspective is also life expressing through that conditioned body-mind. The enacting of the script. Yes. The enacting of the movie or the dream or this is the characters.
But they're empty. Really? When you look at it, what you're saying, Cole, essentially, is when you say,Let's really deeply discuss and understand what's going on for people. Well, that's the most beautiful invitation to do the investigation. Really. And also... Those conversations, as you know, are too natural when you speak one-to-one. That's when it really happens. When I see, when I speak, or you speak, or Tanya, or anyone, one-on-one with someone, and you can see clearly where... That wheel of spontaneous movement of energy gets stuck in some identity or the other. And then you pick it up straight away and you dig in. Okay, tell me about it.
That's, see, that speaks to me. You know, I really relate to that. That's something that is really interesting. So why doesn't it happen in a group? Yeah, yeah. Why doesn't it happen in a group? That's the energy that I'm talking about. One and one makes one. That's what we forget. There's not two. There's not two people in this room. There's only...Yeah. So that's basic, isn't it? Ah, not lighter. Two, not two. So if we're having... Conversations about people in the room, we've got it wrong from the start. It's just different perspectives on one. And there's nothing wrong with trying to, you know, with having any discussion.
How can there be anything wrong? There is no one doing anything wrong ever. All right. It's fascinating and it's entertaining. It's interesting to do the mental gymnastics of all of it. You dive deep into it. It's rewarding. It seems rewarding. It's enjoyable. It's pleasurable. But as to that sense of presence, awareness, or whatever it is, that is unnameable, that is unknowable by the mind, We'll never get there. Every road we go down is a dead end. The mind, it's just known.So knowing. Anyone else? Yeah, and I suppose this is, we just got a perfect example of what I mean. See, I'm talking about from here, okay?
So I have a lot of trouble talking about what's from here, okay? It's, but... People traditionally are in rooms like this talking about this stuff because they want something. That's what they do. They turn up and they want something. And some people, they want something desperately, you know, like I did. Like it consumed me. Yeah. I mean, and it wasn't very nice. Okay. And, and, and that was, that was one aspect. Okay. That's just one aspect of this reality. I'm focusing right down on that part of reality. Yeah. Now, I totally, I totally agree with Ross. Yeah.But see, when I say something like I did and then Ross says, but that's not true, there's only really one, I feel sort of like rejected a bit.
I feel like a bit sort of like that didn't count. You're talking wrongly, Cobb. Yeah. And I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to. No, that's precious. That's precious. Yeah. That's honest. Yeah, I see people who come here like the desperate seekers and they often closer to a tipping point. And then there's other ones like myself who've never experienced free will. So there's no desperation, but they're still showing up here because this is what makes sense, you know, and this is the place. This is the page. And I think there is, here it seems quite easy to describe, you know, the experience. Here it's the experience of no thoughts arising.
And it kind of, in retrospect, the thought arises that it looks like an oil painting. So that's just something that's popping up and there's no sense that I'm doing it or there's no... Will doing it or anything. It's just all that's shown up. But so yeah, there's... You said it like sense. Yeah. Well, no, there was never, because there's never been a sense of free will, like as soon as I came here.There was like, can you find a Tony? And there's a look around, no, no Tony. You know, a couple of five-minute look-arounds over the course of a week. And yeah, I can't see any Tony.
You know, it would be false to make, you know, be like a huge industry and make an assumption that there was a Tony when there's none seen, you know. Yeah, it just makes more sense than other stuff out there saying there's a Tony who needs goals to follow and that's much more like a pink elephant flying around the room that can't be witnessed right now or hasn't been seen in this room. It doesn't mean it's not here, but it hasn't been seen by, you know, there's no memory popping up of a pink elephant flying around the room, put it that way. No, still no memory here popping up of a pink elephant flying around the room.
So it's just like, you know, this thing here, whatever here, whatever's sitting in this space here trots along and does stuff, you know. That's just as clear as day. And it's not a definite either. There's just no notion popping up that there was anything other than some kind of indescribable type of unraveling of the universe, you know. You know, can't be put on a mechanistic unraveling of motion, which was the notions coming up in my 20s, you know, motion and mass, you know, whatever gets there first, gets there first. You knowyou know, this chaos theory and all the rest of it, it's just, you know, none of that has been observed.
You know, none of that has just like popped up in any way, shape or form. And there's absolutely no way of knowing if it's not the case. None of that. If anything, it's not the case. But, and also, you know, Maybe no one else out there knows what is meant by the experience of no thoughts arising, or maybe most people in this room do, and that's a perfectly sensible description. I don't know. You know, yeah, which is what Carl says about different audience members. They've got different, yeah. The expression of what you described as the response to Ross's commentary, that's the humanness of the experiencing.
There's nothing wrong with that. And there is, you know, no sort of requirement to have any desire for any of that to go either. It's also part of it. And there's nothing that can be done to stop it. It will, or needs to be done. It will arise.occur as it has to. And all that can be done that can never actually be done, and it's crazy to even say, it's just when the judgment falls away about it. It's just loving what's appearing as it's appearing. There is also a couple of acknowledging comments for you, Cole, here. Charles says, Colin, get what you are saying, mate.
And Miranda says, fully agree with the point you are making. And Miranda also agreeing with Cole. So, yeah, it was, and then we have also a few good morning messages and hi messages and gratitude messages from people who are watching with us. The energy is moving. The energy is moving in thousand ways, in 10,000 ways. Sometimes the meetings will be really vibrant. Sometimes there will be fighting for the mic, singing on the meetings. No one is in charge. Self-organizing universe. Now we had a big, big weather shift. I thought I would put myself to sleep as I was speaking. Yeah, it was very, yes. Sorry for that.
I'm not the doer. It's just how it comes out. I never know what is going to come out or how it is going to come out. But it came in a sleepy way.matching the environment, matching the weather. But what is beautiful and refreshingly honest when you say that, yes, there are situations when there is a vulnerability in the system and comments, maybe even unrelated comments, are interpreted by that device here as rejection. And that's beautiful. And as Tanya was saying, there is nothing wrong with that either. Having that human response, the response of compassion, the response of fear of rejection, the response of loving for safety, the response of appreciating recognition and love from others rather than being diminished and disrespected.
This is all natural. I mean, the cat is experiencing that too. You know, sometimes I give the cat a handful of treats and sometimes I don't. And it may be experiencing rejection. There's no idea there's anything wrong. But speaking about it, bringing it up, honestly, is just to actually... It's bringing more light into the nature of the movement of the energy and it doesn't prove any sense of I don't get it or I'm not it. It just shows the mind in its function. And thank you for that. That's a beautiful demonstration. Yeah. Well, okay, so I just want to point out I didn't say anything was wrong.That might have been something that was implied or you got what I was saying.
But I think what I'm trying to pinpoint what it is, and I don't actually feel I have managed to do that. My inability. But let's go back to Ross and I, okay? So I brought it up and I thought it was relevant to bring up. Okay, and what I think is a lot goes on sometimes that I want to bring up and it doesn't happen and it doesn't happen with anybody. It's almost like it's ignored. So let me just give one other example. You know, I'm trying to...I'm trying to contribute. I suppose that's probably the word. People ask me to contribute and this is me contributing, yeah?
Yeah. And then what I feel like is everybody saying, oh, but come on, Col, that's just what's happening, you know? And I feel like it's being, what's the word? Dismissed. That sort of thing. Invalidated or dismissed. When that comes back. Yes. That often says, I often hear people say, oh, but that's just what's happening. You know, and that sort of all that really brushes it off. It's very dismissive. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel, sometimes I feel a bit dismissed when I do that. And there's nothing to do about that. I know that's just what's happening. No, no. I was just going to say, I was just going to say, that's the pattern that comes up.
And I totally identify with that pattern. Yeah. You know, because what happened here, mostly... You know, whatever this image I have about myself had been, you know, trolling around the universe, you know, since I was little, was always rejected, dismissed, invalidated, not heard, not listened.And that's the pattern that comes up sometimes, you know. And then I just go, well, am I that image? Am I that image I have about myself? Or is the image never the real? That's what Bob used to say. Is the image ever the real? It's like a, what is it, you know, the thing in the desert. What's that thing in the desert?
A mirage. It's a mirage. So I'm in bondage to a mirage. You know, if I react to those feelings, those alleged feelings of rejection, inadequacy, that's all related to a me, you know. And am I the image I have about myself? Am I? No. I can't find the bloody thing. I've been looking for 40 years. I cannot find that me. No, because there isn't a me and there isn't an image. That's exactly right. So what I'm saying is what has been noticed here is that You know, what comes up when that valid feeling comes up of rejection or inadequacy or fear or self-pity or no one's listening to me, nobody loves me, I'm going to eat some worms.
I just go, there's that pattern. There's that pattern. Ah, there it is. Now, let's have a...I could just say something to you. Just to, I wonder if Carl's getting at, which can bother me sometimes too, it's like when people are just sort of speaking in abstractions they've heard before, and rather than the real like gut, you know, oh, this happened, then this happened, then this happened, you know. And like, say, for example, like, I think Gilbert's quite guilty of a lot of those. And, but then Gilbert was also the one that had, while saying one of those, actually also triggered in me a moment of nothing going on, you know, in the early days, you know, in the first few months.
So, and also, Just because of I don't know guess the way this set up is right now when Ross said one plus one equals one that just Triggered the thoughts to turn off here So that did you know that made perfect sense in that way like it just went to yeah that one But then I don't know that could be seen as an abstraction of you in a different, you know, think you know, I whatever's going on differently at that time in that space. I don't know. Yeah. We're all trying to point, you know. And I just remember Bob and people like Paul Hederman and Gangaji, you know, my primary teacher obviously has always been Bob, but I have listened to other teachers.
They're basically all saying the same thing, you know, which is...You know, we are not the image we have about ourselves. We are not the story we have about ourselves. We're not the story we have about anybody else, you know, and we're pointing to something that can't be described. So the only thing we can do is know who we're not. And so coming back to who's it happening to, it's a me. Where is that me? The me can only be conjured up if we look back into the past or project into the future. So Bob's pointer of what's happening right now, unless we think about it, poof.
Really, the only thing that can ever be done is just a spontaneous natural expression of what is showing up. And then if there is a doubt showing up, because I really appreciate, Cole, your contribution. I always ask for it and I'm really, really grateful. I think this is really bringing the juice up on the surface because it points out to the aspects. You know, sometimes people assume that, okay, so I know there is no self. I should never get dysregulated. I should never experience disappointment or anger or pain or rejection. Well, what a nonsense. Look out in nature.love again bringing up the example of bullfighters the bull sees the red blanket and it charges but it doesn't have a self it should not experience anger it should not be triggered it should not be charging according to who This, what is happening right now, is the life experiencing and expressing itself.
Is there a feeling of disappointment? Is there a feeling of heartbreak? Wow, what a feeling. Wow. What you say is happening to you. I've seen it happening to Bob. I felt it in here happening to myself. With the attitude that I don't even have to check if there is a self. I don't do that. I don't do it for the last decade. I don't look, oh, yeah, maybe there is some relating going on to me. No, I know there is no self. There is no relating going on to me. That's nonsense. So what happens, the vibration goes through the body. Let's say the vibration of feeling of being unheard, diminished or rejected.
Close the eyes and wow raw energy the story straight away drops away the story was contextualized in a moment now it all drops away the moment the preference here is to experience what is appearing rather than fix it or resist it or eat some ice cream or distract. Sometimesthe maybe a need for destruction also in the system and it still doesn't prove that the me is real and this is because of the me this is the me doing it's no me can't full stop there isn't a me if there is a rejection that's a vibration which is labeled by the mind as rejection that doesn't prove any existence of enemy but yes bob would in a situations like this bring up the pointer if it comes with a doubt Ask yourself, who is it happening to?
This old idiot said there is no me. Have a look. Maybe he was right. Maybe he was wrong. That's what he would say. But the moment you know there isn't anyone there, if the feeling is surging through the body, Wow, just relax into it, just feel it. This is the moment, the precious moment now, which will never be the same again. Only now you have the chance to embrace it fully, to let it surge through this whole system, to enjoy it, to love it, to be amazed by it, to be mind blown by it. And heartbreak is particularly a compassion, something that makes you cry.
Yum! Wow! Why not? Resist no evil, says Jesus. Resist nothing.Thank you. You know. Yeah. Without the pain, there is no pleasure. Without sadness, there is no joy. Without sickness, there is no health. Without night, there is no day. Now there is a time for winter. Okay, now there's time for summer. And there is no one objecting to any of it. Yet, naturally describing this is the energy. Let's look at it. Beautiful. And there is so many concepts. That's why I so highly appreciate you bringing it up. Because there's so many concepts I can see in my individual sessions that people have assumptions that I should not be feeling it.
If I'm feeling it, it means there is a me. It means there is relating happening. It means there is subtly something happening, relating, doubting. Well, if that's your justifying story, let's look at it. Is there? Is there a me? Or is just a habit pattern, is just another piece of software running itself, part of the survival? Because let's face it, if you find yourself in a situation when you are collectively rejected, you won't survive. That's death. We are pack animals, depending on each other. Even if we go camping to the forests in the wood,
We still depend on those who manufactured our tent, for example, or who discovered how to lit the fire.
There is interdependency about that whole manifested dream. So rejection is very strong software preventing the body from being annihilated, obliterated, from being killed. It's the love of being that appears as the... You know, avoiding rejection or avoiding being diminished or dishonored. And experiencing that avoidance you're experiencing love of being everything is that everything is that one love of being appearing in thousand ways but bringing out doubts what make you doubt what is the doubt what is the desire those are good conversation starters what stands in a way Bob would always say, you are that full stop. What stands in the way of fully realizing it right now?Really?
Yeah. Nothing. That's it. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. It's an illusion and an appearance of this vibration that is a thought that comes up and there's energy put into it and belief and that's it. But without that... Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Stopping you. Yeah. Dino, you have a mic. I'll give it to someone. Use it. Use it. Well, yeah. All right.I find it very difficult to speak because I can sit here and describe and point, I guess, and explain the way the experience sort of seems to appear very simply, really, and in non-dual terms. I find it ridiculous too, to speak about it. And I think something that is sort of puzzling is, you know, if there's some form of psychological suffering, Perhaps people should be speaking up and being really honest and cultivating an environment that's like, let's bring it to the surface.
You can't just listen, hear Dean's platitudes on there is only one, and this is it. And I can really talk about it forever and describe the absolute magnificence of this show and the unknowing of it all, because I have no idea about any of it at all. Anything that... Any description is, I still don't know, all I can say is that it just, this is, this is appearing and in this appearance there's all these different stories and seemingly people with dilemmas and problems and ideas and living lives.and dying and babies are born and wars happen and universes are formed and all this kind of stuff.
But I really don't know. These are just descriptions of an appearance, an empty appearance. So to talk about it in these terms is really, is probably not helpful for someone who's in some form of experiencing some form of psychological suffering. And yet it's so crazy because it's still the same appearance appearing as someone, as a someone who has psychological suffering, but it's still, it's all part of the same show. So, and it is all one. So to talk about it in those terms and address them individually is a fascinating concept in itself. But yet, I guess while we're here, it would be really nice to just...
Honestly encourage anyone with any slight dilemma on not seeing things or feeling like there's a sense of self that shouldn't be there to bring it to the surface if they dare, because then we can just tell you that there is no one there and shut the fuck up. And it's not untrue, but I have really... It's not untrue. Yeah, yeah, I know, but it is pretty nasty. I have a beautiful, nasty...and uncompassionate, heartless and unnecessary. But I have a pretty good comments here from our online community. We stopped at Miranda agreeing with Cole and JK says, spiritual awakening realization does not always mean emotional maturity.
Absolutely. It totally doesn't. I mean, you know, look again, look at nature. You have very, very well trained dog and you have super traumatized, biting everyone, squealing, unhealthy, emotionally traumatized, whatever. Yes, totally. Because there is no one that awakens, the body mind may be conditioned in a healthy way or the body mind may be conditioned in unhealthy way. There is no one there either way. No one there. And Miranda says, exactly, Cole. I was making the same point when I was last at the morning session. My level of understanding dismissed. Oh, I'm really sorry, Miranda, that you felt this way. Oh, it definitely wasn't an intention.
But thank you for bringing it up. It is always good to know and be more careful and mindful and heartful. And JK says, perhaps there is a danger. People might have intellectual, conceptual understanding, waking up.up but perhaps not waking down to heart and gut oh i love the way you put it this is really yeah this is brilliant i mean you know i would not even call it intellectual conceptual understanding i would just call it a knowledge of slogans Because understanding, as you say, and it's a beautiful description, waking down to the heart and gut, really, really living that moment fully, including the gut and the heart.
Beautiful. And he also says, oh, she is a bear, is a picture of a bear. So I don't know. JK, what about the people having a feeling of superiority, know-it-all, shutting down, invalidating others, but not themselves experiencing, checking in with that, myself included? Yeah, again, from the life's perspective, there are different mechanisms, different body-mind mechanisms. You have the mechanism of a bully or narcissist or psychopath. And that is also evolutionary response to early trauma or something. The body shut down compassion, shut down certain neural networks to survive. And whether there is a sense of self in it, I have a couple of more comments. Just thinking, you know.What about others?
Forget about others. I'm being brutal, okay? This is brutal. Forget about others. There are no others. Just do the investigation. Just take a look. And, you know, when they say sort your own shit out first, and then worry about what you can do for others, you know, save the world or whatever it is that you believe you're going to do. Just take a look. Continually do the investigation. And that is it. That is it. You can't give what you haven't got. You're not the doer. You're not the causal agent. You can't. No individual is making stuff happen. And perhaps it comes out brutally with not enough padding, right?
But what do you, you know, do you want the truth? Or do you want something palatable? Or beautiful. If that's what you want, perhaps this isn't it. Yeah. Right? This is then maybe Jehovah or Duellis, you know, something else. It resonates. Whatever resonates. And, you know, this is... This is it. There is nothing else. And, you know, Bob was brutal.He was clear, he was consistent, and there was no need to gild the lily. That was just how it is. And that was his tradition, right? And yes, that's the beauty of that core message, unadulterated. I've just got a brief comment on me. So it's support.
Oh, yeah, this is quicker than that. A, it's superfluous, and B, it's never been spotted. And it's just like the origin of the universe. Why do you need something to create what's already just showing up, you know?Yeah, I just wanted to share something with Miranda, my experience. I think the first meeting I had with Pat over the phone and what we talked about, it was like, I felt like it was a... You know, my head's been turned around 180 degrees. I couldn't accept this idea, the teachings of non-duality. And it's taken me 10 months, I think, and I just sort of Yeah, well, what happened was a few days ago, I was in another chat group with the Krishnamurti group, and they were talking about self-nature.
And I was like, what, can you elaborate what self-nature is? And he said, oh, if you look at yourself, there's nothing. You know, they said, well, they were talking about meditation, and they meditate to discover what the self-nature is. And the self-nature really is empty. There's nothing. So I made a comment, which was the wrong comment. I said, yeah, you know, I agree, the self-nature, there's nothing. When we look within ourselves and all that is all empty.get it physically even. And then I made a wrong comment. I said, oh, whatever it is, you know, you're always aware that awareness is. And straight away, the guy, you know, knocked me, oh, you know, if you're aware that you're aware, then there's an I there.
You're off the track. I said, oh yes. Then I thought about it a bit more. I said, hang on, I think what I meant to say was, you know, awareness is always there. It's ever present and we missed it. So, so, So it's taken me 10 months to come to this realization. Nothing can be said. Nothing can be said that you're in the mind that doesn't exist, but nothing can be said. They say the best teachers sit in silence. That's it. Oh, yeah, I'll end this one. Yeah. And also, you see, that's beautiful that he couldn't knock you off your perch. That's what Bob is also saying.
Once you do the investigation and you see and you look, you see that you are always here, but you are not here as a person. You're here as a pure presence. And now someone can deny it? No. After that, then I went back and watched some of the other Zoom meetings, the previous meetings.meetings with Jamie and all that, and then, oh, it's sort of, yeah, clicks. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you know, confirms. They've been saying all this all the time, and yet I don't know what I was listening to, even though I agree, but it sort of just washes over. So I just keep listening.
That's it. The ones that agree. The one that agrees and disagrees is always the mind. Only mind has opinions and agrees or disagrees. Heart just is. The essence just is. The presence just is. And mind says, oh yeah, I get it. I understand it. Oh, I agree with that. Oh, I disagree with it. It's just mine. It doesn't matter. It's its nature. Yes, always comment. So we have another one from JK. That was the last one was, what about the people having feeling of superiority, know-it-all, shutting down, invalidating, but not themselves experiencing, checking in with that, myself included. Yes, I think Tanya actually answered that brilliantly.
Don't worry about them right now because it is really, you are the projector. You are the one that is projecting those people, that having the sense of superiority and all that. So JK says, so if someone is suffering,other person could embrace and enjoy of gaslighting the emotions in the other Well, again, this is projecting. This is not what is happening right now. If you are in the presence of someone who is suffering and you are completely centered, completely present, completely empty with no concepts, no ideas what you should or could enjoy or do, The right action flows naturally, again, according to your conditioning. If you are conditioned, if you are a broken machine and you get triggered like a bull, you're going to go and charge.
Though, again, if there is no doer, your job is to just be the space and see what emerges from the space. And I can tell you what emerged. As Tanya was saying, Bob was uncompromisingly brutal with delivering the message. But he was also absolutely present and all heart and if there was anyone needing a hand his hand was always extended there though he did have incredible emotional maturity by the way by the whatever that's that's how it yeah he was anyway Miranda says yeah that's good I get that And JK says, question, is it possible that non-dual understanding can be used to bypassas emotions and gaslight others as well as avoid taking responsibility.
I would not call it, look, I would not call it understanding though. I would call it again non-dual set of slogans. Because in the true understanding, true understanding cannot be used because there's no one there to use it. So yes, spiritual slogans can justify all sorts of actions. Apparently, some of Hitler's associates were always carrying Badabad Gita under their arms and going Himmler or one of them, I don't know, someone told me that's third-hand information, to justify their behavior with Advaita or justify, though again from life's perspective, There is no doer there who is using the slogans and justifying. It's just the conditioning of the body.
Extreme selfishness, inconditioning, it's this regulated selfing mechanism which runs riot. And... Congealed in the G. Yes, so again, non-dual understanding, we can watch, you know, we can watch some great gurus having a fleet of cars or million dollars or evading tax.or sexually using their students. But is there anyone there using anything at all? Or is just life, life thing. And yes, so slogans are used to justify or to lure the potential victim into the nest of the sexual predator. But there is still no one there anywhere. Full stop. It's just life. And Anika says, yes, Tanya, do the investigation. It is the only way to get it free.
And Dean is playing the gong for us. And I want to thank you, everyone, for contributions. And thank you, Cole, for sparking it up.