This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
One, starting from our own names. I'm Jacinta. Jacinta. Cool. Cool. Ross. June. Rachel. June. Check me. And it cuts and bop and time. And just for you guys, because it's been a while since we have you here in the room, Bob wasn't particularly happy with that idea, but he had to accept it. That I consider the best way of transmitting the message. Is to let it flow through you. Let it flow through anyone and everyone because everyone is equally aware that they are. And that's the final truth, that you are, or you are that. So everybody knows the final truth already. Everybody is the final truth already.
The knowing is your essential self. So I usually offer to start if there is anyone in the group who would like to give us the introduction, who would like that message to flow through them. Later on, of course, we'll still be doing the investigation as usually. But yeah, Bob always wanted me to do that. But I said, look, that just it just works. If one hears themselves speak.If one here gets out of the way and let that message flow, well, then one of you pick the challenge. No? Yes? There is no pressure. It's just an offering. No, no. I'm talking to Jim and Rachel because they were with us for as long as I remember.
So I know you know it. I know it's leaving you. It's there. But it's just an option. Jamie? There you go. You want to sit here? Oh, you want to sit here. Where do you want to be? Just a short one. Just a short one. No worries.Okay. Yay. We all strapped in? Mm-hmm. The dong? The dong, okay.So same message as always. The message is, well, they call it non-duality, but I call it just this. It's just this. Non-duality simply means that there's only one thing happening. It's only this.I'm not much. At making sort of spiels on this, but I guess I can share what I've learned so far.
And what was learned is what I am, what we are as that non-dual reality. Has always beenThere's nothing to get. There's actually nothing to learn. There's no teacher. There's no teaching. There's no pointers really. You know, I've sort of come to the point where I realized that Most of it's bullshit. You know, we get stuck in these spiritual concepts, in this spiritual roundabout.And. All it seems to do is keep you on a treadmill of thinking that there's something to get. Nothing to get. It's just this simple reality of what's happening. I guess From my personal perspective, from this perspective, Early on there was a lot of resistance to life, to this as it was.
We call that resistance suffering.And the suffering is just a non-acceptance of this, of the reality. And what is it that's non-acceptant? It's not us. It's not the reality that is non-acceptant. It's this image we have of ourself as being separate, as being... A dualistic character, me and the other, me and the world, feeling a separation.So life's going to flow. The appearance is going to flow as it's going to flow. There's no one doing anything. But early on there was a feeling that there was a me that had to somehow get on top of life and master life and try to make it flow in the direction that would give me happiness.And what I've learned is the happiness.
That I perceived as happiness was really just pleasure. And most of that pleasure was found through gratification of the me. And when the me got gratified, things seemed okay and life was flowing in my direction. As we all know. There's also life will flow in directions that causes the me a lot of resistance that it shouldn't be this way. So it turned out that the only problem, seeming problem, that I had was the belief in this me.me that, you know, had attachments and fears and, and all that. And that was causing the seeming suffering. Of this me. So about 10 years ago, I met this fellow called Bob.
We all know Bob. Bob's a very, very beautiful expression of this message. And he got me to investigate this me that was suffering and thought it had problems and so forth. And I'd never really been pointed in that direction before. And it just was seen. That the me was just really a mental creation. Something the brain was doing that had no independent existence of its own.So that was seen early on. But the me is quite powerful. It'll keep reasserting itself. And one way that it reasserts itself is through these teachings. If it's not pointed out, if it's not noticed. And the idea that, well, I've got something now.
I've seen something. I've seen that this me is not real. And there's a, there's a, there's a,that will cause the me to kind of reassert itself. For some people, maybe the me falls away and that's it. But for most of us, the investigation is ongoing and maybe it gets more subtle. So ultimately, that me fell away. Well, it didn't fall away because there's nothing really to fall away. It's just a... It's just a mental creation. And what was revealed was what was always so, which is our nature, which is reality, which is that non-dual reality, the one essence.And in that revelation, remembrance, whatever, however you want to define it, was the discovery or the remembering of what we're actually seeking was one always the case, always there.
But was just a subtle happiness. So what I'd been looking for as happiness, as I mentioned before, was in the form of pleasure of things going my way. Because when things, when the river's flowing in the direction that the me approves of,The ego calls that happiness. That's just pleasure because and that that's what comes and goes and that's that's the trap because all of a sudden things flow in our direction. We feel good. We feel this is it. I've got it. And then boom. Life happens as it always happens and the flow changes and the resistance arises again. So what I learned is what I was seeking was not the river to flow the way I determined it should flow, but was the pure, unadulterated acceptance of the river, however it flows, whatever direction, whatever arises.So.
When the river flows in a direction that we could perceive as painful, There can often be whatever. There's a lot of feelings. We're embodied. We're experiencing this body, this mind. It's going to have all sorts of feelings, all sorts of thoughts, concepts that are going to arise.And in the initial seeing through of this me, there was still a sense that now this has been seen through, I'm not going to feel anything. I'm not going to feel pain. I'm not going to, you know, everything's just going to move through this body. But what I discovered eventually is the feelings actually get stronger. They can become even more intense.But in the revelation of what we are, which is understood, I'm sure everybody understands, is absolutely untouched by any of those feelings.
So if there's any resistance to the feelings that come up, it can only be through a belief, a re-established belief in this me that doesn't like these feelings, doesn't like these thoughts and thinks, and I guess it's a kind of spiritual bypassing that we can revert back to that I am. As a sort of retreat from those feelings. And of course, anything denied or resisted in any way, even if it's a retreating into the sense of I am where there's only peace and you're free of those feelings, it's going to perpetuate those same experiences and they're going to keep coming up and keep coming up.
And the retreat into the sense of I am of trying to avoid those feelings. it's going to cause them to keep repeating. So what I...I learned eventually was No retreat, no avoidance. As I said at the start, the non-dual reality, everything is that, including the feelings, the thoughts that are arising. They're not separate. There's no separation. So the pure going into the feelings, into the thoughts, not trying to avoid anything, actually just leaving everything as it is,What is it? That's a good way of putting it. And realizing that that this understanding isn't about becoming a sort of numb character that doesn't feel or experience anything.
This, whatever is happening, this appearance, is about experiencing. And in that discovery of allowing everything to be as it is, whether they're feelings of love, of hurt, fear, whatever, They're all part of that flow of the river and they're all beautiful and there is a sweetness in all the feelings once it's allowed to be as it is. And there is also an intensification of those feelings.But what was discovered eventually is in the fully feeling of whatever is arising, they quickly move on. There's a doubt with and just like the weather it's beautiful today you know it was raining yesterday might rain this afternoon who cares and and our internal milieu of feelings and thoughts which are not our doing we're not doing them You know, the feelings and the thoughts and all those expressions, which are a movement of energy like everything is.
This whole appearance is just a play of energy, a play of light. And, you know, as the sense of me, the sense of self divides it up into, I like this play of light, but I don't like that play of light. I like that pattern, but not that pattern. So we divide, and it's the nature of... Our brain to do that. And it's going to keep doing it. And that's not going to stop. But the true freedom is the freedom toallow the appearance to play out. As it's going to play out. And the total understanding is that we as that reality aren't the doer of that.
We're not doing our thoughts. The thought comes up, feeling arises. We're not doing any of it. We're the witness of all of that. Now, there doesn't have to be a retreat into that sense of I am to avoid those feelings, because once it's really, really, truly... Understood and felt that we are not that, then it's kind of like watching a movie. It's like we're sitting in a cinema, we're watching a movie. Now the movies, you know, the main characters of the movies, you have a sort of identification with them. Main character and you want to see him get out of trouble and avoid this and that and you can get carried away but there's always when you're watching the movie there's always a deep knowing that i'm actually not that character but it's enjoyable to sort of get carried away and lost in the main character And we are all that main character.And in that deep understanding, it's the same feeling as watching a movie.
And there's a sweetness in all the emotions and feelings that arise because of the witnessing of that. And... Ultimately, I like the word acceptance, but it's not even acceptance becauseWhat we are neither accepts or rejects anything. The idea of acceptance and allowing, things like that, are still all of the mind. Because we try to convince the mind that it should accept and not resist. But the mind's going to do what the mind's going to do. We're not doing the mind. We're not doing anything, you know, as that reality. And in the full seeing of that is the non-acceptance, is the acceptance, sorry, not the acceptance.
But it's just a pure witnessing. It's like a movie playing out. We as that reality are witnessing and experiencing the movie. So my only recommendation would be to just allow the movie to play out. The movie is already a done deal. It's going to play out as it plays out. This understanding is not going to make the movie plot all of a sudden have no, you know, it's not going to improve the character. It's not going to improve the plot. The plot and the character is still going to play out according to the destiny or whatever.of that. So what I learned was to give up on all those ideas of becoming a better character and improving the plot of the movie and just just simply watch what is and what is is is not only there is no external and internal there is only the one thing happening but there's a there early on there was a feeling that somehow i could change stop these uncomfortable feelings from arising and i realized eventually that i'm just not doing the uncomfortable they're not in in Essence, they're none of my business.
It's just what's happening. And now that there is no discrimination between so-called good and bad feelings, good and bad thoughts, there's no differentiation. Because we tend to divide that up when the thoughts are happy and the things are good. We like those thoughts. We like those feelings. I don't want to feel this. But there's no distinction between whatever's happening. And in the fully feeling of whatever is arising,arising it's discovered that there is beauty in all of it as a sweetness to even the pain when it arises and We all know that there is a big difference between pain and suffering. Pain is not suffering. You know, uncomfortable thoughts, uncomfortable feelings is not suffering.
The suffering is the secondary feeling of these thoughts, these feelings, this situation shouldn't be here. That somehow... The understanding hasn't sunk in enough. I'm feeling pain. I'm feeling an uncomfortable feeling. That's the resistance that it shouldn't be that way. Go back and listen to your spiritual teachings again and put on your talks and try to avoid it that way. Invite it all head on. You know, allow, because there is here now no preference between good and bad feelings. They're just all feelings. But they're not my feelings. They're not my thoughts. When I say my, I'm not talking about...me, Jamie, the character, I'm talking about the reality, what we are, they're not anything to do with us.
It's just like watching a movie. But for many of us, there's still an identification with the main character, that we are that character. They are my thoughts. They are my feelings. So therefore, if you take ownership of the feelings, of the thoughts, if you own them, they can own you. And they can create that secondary... Resistance which is what I now determine is is the suffering the Buddha the Buddha famously said that you know in life we get struck with an arrow and the arrow is just the situations the pain of life which is inevitable but then we get struck with the second arrow which is that's that's
sense that that first arrow shouldn't be there that it's wrong and then that's that secondary arrow is what we can be free of can't be free of the first arrow that's life is going to flow how it's going to flow and sometimes we're going to get struck with arrows But the second arrow is what we're looking at here.
Is it necessary? Is it necessary to be struck by that second arrow? And what I discovered is that is what dissipates over time.The avoidance of the first arrow is not possible. And just as we get struck by arrows, we might get also tickled by feathers and all sorts of things. And that flow of life is constantly pleasure and pain. But the only advice I would offer, not advice, I guess just a sharing of what was learned here, is to not divide the thoughts and the feelings and whatever is arising, whatever is arising is that non-dual reality and it's going to express energetically in a myriad different ways.
The freedom is from the identification with that and the feeling of doership.I cannot do these, eventually, that will fall away. So just in summing up, We're not the body, we're not the mind, we are that non-dual reality. It's always been that way. It's not an attainment, it's not something to be learnt or to be given or transmitted. Anybody can see right now that we're seeing, hearing, feeling, touching, tasting, seeing thoughts arise, the feeling in the body.And that's what we are. We are that pure experiencing. The experience itself is unknown. And what we are is also unknown. I guess what I've also learned is I've given up on trying to work out what the fuck's going on.
I don't know. I don't know what we are. Are we a brain in a vat? Are we dreaming? Is the world really a spinning rock around, you know, like it's all unknowable and it's a waste of time. Exactly. Who cares? It's a waste of time trying to work all that out. It's fun to think about and look at different options. There's nothing wrong with that and that will still arise.But the only thing that will ever be known for sure, without a doubt, is the feeling of existence. I exist. Um, So it's really all this process of what we call spiritual, non-dual, whatever teachings. It's not a teaching, it's an unlearning.
It's a deconditioning. We're born... Where the body is born into this experience and conditioned very early on to be a separate person. It happens to all of us, you know, from our parents, our schools, our friends. What we're doing here is a kind of stripping away of those concepts, a questioning of, is it true? Am I a separate individual, independent entity moving through this world, acting upon it? Is that what we really are? And it really doesn't take much.to investigate and to see that that's not the truth, that's not the reality. But in seeing that, we can't, we're not doing it. Even the unlearning, the deconditioning is the flow of life, is life impacting.
On us and doing the undoing. You can't, it's like you can't work it outLike Einstein famously said, you can't solve a problem with the same level of intelligence that created the problem. And Bob used to say, you won't find the answer in the mind. And that's what he's saying. Like, you can't work this out in the mind. It's like trying to wash away blood with blood. So in a way, the fact that we're all here and there's an interest in what's being discussed here is a kind of grace in itself. Because I can tell you, You know, in my day-to-day life, most other seeming people that I know have no interest.
You know, they're out there trying to work out their life and plan their life and make it work. And sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't. But that's none of my business as well too. There's no feeling here that anything needs to change, that anybody needs to have this message thrust at them or understood it because it's ultimately whether you know it, whether there's an interest or not. In this message we are all that one non-dual reality umSo simply, it's an unlearning. If you're here or if you're out there in internet land with an interest in this, then it's a form of grace in itself.
It's like Ramana said, your head's already in the tiger's mouth. So my only message would be just relax. Let life happen. If it's brought you to this point, it'll take you where you need to go. The message will reveal itself in its own time as it's meant to. Don't need to push it and thrust yourself at it and go over and over again. The only value of any of these pointers is in the immediacy. Going over them and trying to work them out in your head has no value at all. And I've got to the point now where I pretty much just dropped all of it.
Very little interest in this message anymore because it's like an antidote, it's a medicine. You take the medicine and when the pathology is no longer there, you don't keep taking the medicine. You know, it's like the Buddha said, you know, they talked about, you know, Hinayana and Mahayana.is a sort of vehicle like a boat. You know, you get in the boat, you cross the river, you know, carried around on your back for the rest of your life. You got across the river, you put the boat down, and then you just continue the journey. And that's, you know, where... Where I hope we're all at now, that we know this message.
We know who we are. And just let life take its course. Let life flow. Don't push into trying to work this out in the head. Life has brought you this far. It'll take you where you need to go. Just relax and enjoy the movie. That's it. That's gorgeous. That's beautiful. Okay, I'll go. Online community. And yes, that was a blissful explanation. Really yummy. Thank you. Yeah, it's lovely. It's just, as you say, I was actually told yesterday by someone that... You know, well, I was lucky to leave for nearly a decade with a master. Master and I never had one conversation on non-duality. Why would we?
What's there to talk about? If there is...someone because we did have individual meetings and we did have like two to one meetings if there is someone who does want to investigate and ask for it yeah absolutely that is just the easiest thing in the world to to describe what's happening and that description is all the pointing is Yes, yes. If there is anyone who asks, that's what's happening. But between the two of us, I had no questions. Before I came together and started living with Bob, the questions were resolved because the questioner wasn't there anymore. There was no one who needed to answer any question and figure anything out.
And if there is no one who needs to know, how can you construct the question? I mean, of course, in the daily life, the question would come up, would you like a pizza or pasta? That's a question, but that's about it in regards to questions. But I also have a few comments from our online community. And welcome everyone. We have about 20 people with us. And Anita says good morning. And Anika says good morning. And Gilbert says the me has no power whatsoever. Bob pointed this out so often, but apparently no one hears the pointers clearly. How wonderful, isn't it? Because the one who would claim to hear the pointers clearly is the delusional self.So, but I know what you mean, Gilbert.
I remember Bob sometimes, maybe once or twice early on, would overload it with the meetings, individual group meetings, which says, shit, nobody can hear what I'm pointing. Nobody can see it. But of course, I would jokingly say, well, just as well, because the one who can hear it is not the true self. It's really no one there that could hear it. And we would both laugh because there is no one who doesn't know that they are. And if there is anyone having an... A grandiosity delusion the delusion of grandeur I know it but no one else does well you know that just consult your psychiatrist really this is yes as pleasant as it may be to believe that I know something that you don't it is called fanaticism you know Jehovah Witnesses go there and people believing in conspiracy theories Non-dual message is much, much, much simpler than that.
As Jamie beautifully said, it is the second arrow. There is no one to take it. There's no one who will take it on board. So if there is anyone who expects themselves, oh, I hear the pointers, I resonate with pointers, I understand the pointers, well, who is there? Who's there to want?understand it or to hear it anybody home if there is any illusion of self that is taking an ownership of knowing something or understanding something okay just just keep investigating keep looking until there is no one there who is even interested what I know, what I understand, what questions I have unanswered. Is there anyone there rather than, apart from, the certainty of existence, the sense of presence?
Because that doesn't go away. But the definition of what the presence is,And now we have another good morning from Giotti. And Sally says, thank you, Jamie. I find your pointing so clear. It was beautiful. And Sally also says, do you become the medicine, Jamie? And Nick Shala says, love to you all. You don't become, Bob always said, there is no becoming. There is, you know, the one that becomes something or the other is the dream character. The dream character can become, you know, in your movie, like Jamie was saying, a mother or a widow or a wife or whatever it is. But a life that you are, the consciousness that you are, doesn't become anything.
So the medicine was, I know that analogy, I was following some of the Zen sanghas, which they explain it in a way, you know, when you get the sickness, you need the medicine. When you're healthy, you don't. So you take the medicine as long as the sickness is in the body. When the sickness is gone, the medicine is gone also. You know, the level of sickness, the level of medicine. You take the medicine, there is less medicine and there is less sickness. And there is less medicine and there is less sickness. And then there is less medicine and there is less sickness. And now the both are gone.
There is no need for medicine because there is no need for medicine.There is no sickness. And what's the sickness? That's the belief in the delusion that I am a person, I am an entity, I understand something or I don't understand something or others don't and I do. Those delusions are what the medicine is needed for. And the medicine is simple investigation. Is looking whether you can find anyone there. There is a sense of presence. There is the certainty of existence. There is the I am. But is that I am defined in any way? Is that a body or the mind? Is that a person? An Australian person, a male person, a female person, that are all concepts.
The existence itself is unquestionable. The limitations put upon existence are delusions, are the ideas. You go to sleep at night and you have different character. And that different character might not be the same age, the same shape, the same size, the same sex. It might not even be human. But the point of consciousness, the sense of existence is the same. You may also use the imagination and imagine yourself to be a king or the queen or the beggar. Or you may be an acting in a movie. You may play a role. But the point of consciousness, the sense of existence,That one is the same. It never changes.
It's still there. The I am. But what I am is unknowable. The one who claims, I know what I am, is just a mental construct. There is no knowing what. How the knowing itself or existence itself could objectify itself without leaving itself is unknowable, is a mystery. But that I am is a certainty, unquestionable certainty. And again, that I am. You know, everybody knows that I am. And sickness and medicine are one, says Wes. And Joe says, nice to see you back, Kat, and to hear you. I'll call you darling today, preferably. Bradley says the costumes are consumed by the no particular thing. No particular thing.
Yeah, beautiful. The costumes are consumed. How cute. Yes, so this is the play, the rites, they call it the journey, whatever, the dream. They call it in a thousand different names. The whole appearance, Maya, the dance of Shakti. It is an expression.experience as Bob would say that one life that one existence which is experienced as a sense I am or is translated by the mind as the words I am but that certainty of existence the way for it to exist to experience and express itself is to dream itself a costume a vehicle and through that costume is the life that is looking is the consciousness that is hearing is the pure essence of existence that is experiencing the seeming world, the dream.
And of course, because the vehicle of experiencing is already conditioned, it sees the colors. It doesn't see the ultraviolet or infrared because the body is already conditioned to see you know the rainbow of colors and to not see the others to not hear the infra sounds so the limitations of the vehicle are taken to be the limitation of self but self is unlimited is limitless it does hear the infra sounds and it does see the ultraviolet through other means, through other costumes, other vehicles, which again is none of anyone's business. The business ofof the life essence expressing through this moment here is to embrace it experience it to the fullest this moment here that's why it is here to be experienced fully and that experiencing experiencing even the expression of it is experienced.
So life is already fulfilling its function. There's nothing to do. There's nothing to add. Just like Jamie wrapped it up, relax. The one who thinks there is somewhere to get, someone to become, is the dream character. And again, Jamie beautifully pointed the dream character, the script's already written. It isn't really because there is no time. But Nisargadatta would also use that metaphor that don't worry about the body-mind. Its destiny is predetermined. It's not really. It's just a metaphor to... Put your mind at rest. Don't try to fix it, change it, alter to fix the plot or fix the dream character. It's a waste of time.
Well, it's part of the dream. If life wants to experience that part of the dream, that's fine too. It's just a narrative which brings about the sense of I'm the doer that goes with it. And that sense...I'm the doer, I'm not getting it right or I'm getting it wrong or I need something else to happen, the second arrow. The circumstances shouldn't be the way they are. I shouldn't be the way I am. People around me shouldn't be the way they are. That's suffering. That's unnecessary suffering. Relaxing that role of controller, manipulator of the reality, relaxing that illusion of control. It's all that is ever, that's the pacification of the suffering.
But who does it?There is no one to do anything. There is no one full stop. Like Gilbert was saying, there is no one to understand. What was he saying? No power. The me has no power. No one hears the pointers clearly because there is no one there. There's no one who needs to hear it. The dream character. Has to be recognized as a dream character. Dream character doesn't need to hear anything at all. Dream character doesn't need to understand anything at all. Dream character, as Gilbert said, has no power whatsoever. Don't worry about the dream character. Just give up on it. It's a dream character.
It doesn't matter what it thinks, what it feels, what it understands. Life is, and that is what you are. See the dream character in the movie of life unfolding, just the way, again, Jamie pointed out, as you watch the movie in the TV. And if there is an energy going through the roller coaster of feelings, well, that's just for fun of it, for the appreciation of it, for the joy of it, the experiencing itself. And if there is apparent illusion of controlling, you know, when you drive your car, there is definitely an illusion of control. What's wrong with that?the knowing the space the awareness of that illusion of control of that of that character driving that's enjoyable too the space allows that illusion the space allows that experiencing It is the experiencing and that's your essential nature.
So relaxing is the way. And I think that's it for the online contribution. With the expansion. Anyone? Tanya? Do you know? Oh, wonderful.I appreciated it all, as usual. I think the part that stood out to me that I appreciated, Jamie, was you talking about the... Intensification of emotions and feeling. I feel like that first arrow got pushed a little deeper and twisted.My idea of self has become a bit more porous and unstable. And at the same time, there's been, a lot of intensity and emotion that I haven't experienced before and to just be able to hear someone also
talk of that and be able to relax with that because often with intense emotional experiences if the mind steps in, it tries to make sense of it.
And in its making sense of it, sometimes, as you were saying, Kat, there's an idea of being more sick, like sometimes with these intense emotions and like, I latch on to like... How or why is it feeling like it's getting worse or more intense, even though at the same time there'smore surrendering and more grace with it. So I just appreciated hearing about the intensity, but then also hearing about this perception of sickness and medicine and them being the same thing. In those intense feelings, there's always an embrace of the reality there as well. Like if you're identified with whatever's arising,and there's a non-remembrance of that reality, then there's, there is suffering in the feelings, but what seems to happen here now, whatever, that the sense of being is primary.
And whatever is arising as experiencing is an appearance. And it can still be intense. Often usually is intense, just as the happiness can be really intense. You know, like, but there's never a losing. If you, I think Bob used to say, you know, take your stand as what you are. And if you're taking, if your stance is of that reality, then it doesn't matter how intense the feelings are, they can never override the sense of being. So even with those intense feelings, there's still the underlying happiness. It's a weird thing that you can be, have those feelings and still be happy at the same time.
It doesn't, it's kind of hard to put into words, but there's a, like an embrace. Of whatever's happening.by that reality of what we are, an embracement of all of it. And in that, in the feelings are felt in a different way, whatever that feeling is, there's an intensity, a much more, much more intensity in all of the feelings, but you never, leave what you are. Not that that's possible. Let's say you never forget. So there's just like, I think Christ said, you know, like on this rock, I build my church. And the rock he's talking about is what we are as that it's solid like a rock.
It doesn't, it's immovable, it's, you know, rather than being a wash at sea and carried away by the waves and up and down, we're like that lighthouse on a rock. It's stable. So therefore, whatever crashes against it is taken, is accepted. And as that... Becomes more and more stable, then it'slike bring it on, whatever. And as I said, there's a beautiful sweetness in all of the feelings. And you'll find yourself often in tears. Sometimes they're tears of sadness, sometimes tears of joy, mostly tears of joy. You know, like I listen to music all the time. That's what I do. I don't read spiritual books and things like that.
I just listen to music. And it's me. I just close my eyes. I go, fuck, how good is this? And I mean, like, it just brings me to tears all the time because I was feeling the music so strongly. In my conversation and interactions with people, you're just fully there because they are you. You're experiencing. They're having their experience as well too and there's a fully feeling and a compassion and empathy there for all your fellow travellers. That just is an absolute blessing. It's a, you know, as I said, it's a grace, it's a blessing. And I count my blessings constantly that I was exposed to this message and able to fully experience this life rather than numbing it with drugs and alcohol and avoid.and sex and all that, like what we tend to do as that believed in character, we tend to want to numb ourself from the feelings.
That's why we don't feel them, because we run away from them. As soon as an uncomfortable feeling comes up, we might run away from it. Couple of beers or if we're spiritual we'll run away and put on some satsangs and listen to those or whatever to escape from feeling it fully. But in the fully allowing it to be there, it can just bloom. And it's just beautiful, you know, because in that blooming, there's never a forgetting, a leaving of who you are. So there's no need to retreat into that and avoid the feelings, which can be a little bit of a trap. And in a way, that's, I think...
What Nisargadatta was sort of pointing to when he said we are prior to I am. So in a sense, still the sense of I am is still an individual. What is ultimately pointed at is prior. To that I am because the ego can still stop its thoughts and retreat, but there's still a feeling of separation.The ultimate freedom is freedom from all of it to just let life flow, let it play out. And you are that rock, you know, immovable. That's the true freedom. That was gorgeous, gorgeous. Thank you. And that's also the aspect of the suffering, which I think Bob has embraced so beautifully by, I mean, he was pointing out, I think Tanya was calling it on one of the meetings that, or maybe Jane, I don't know, that his alcoholism brought him to his knees because it was so much pain.
It was so much suffering involved. As very very often it is spiritual seeking comes from that sense of unfulfilled hunger for more, for something more, just running away from existential angst and suffering. That suffering is a motivator to investigate. And Bob, he told me many times that the extent of pain that he went through when he had so-called zoo nights in the shearing sheds, where people would die actually out of exhaustion, alcoholics, mainly alcoholics, brought so much pain that nothing has ever compared.operations, cancer, the betrayal of his stepfamily, nothing really caused any comparable suffering to what he went through earlier. And that suffering is also in that movie, in that theater of that play of life.
Is the way that life invites to investigate. And I remember I had pretty crappy childhood and a lot of childhood trauma there and a lot of first years, probably first 15, 20 years of my life were pretty painful. And I found, I found just life has shown me an escape way in the first contact with spirituality or non-dual teachings. There was, and it felt like the numbing technique to go and focus only what is happening right now. Forget about the past forget about the future forget about what they did to you or what they didn't or negligence or whatever the the story just stay with what is that feeling however strong however painful that tearing being torn apart and the tears flowing just this moment without thinking and wow when i discovered this one and then i discovered that all the zen sanghas are pointing into this i said shit you know this is a drug this is the allultimate drug there is nothing I can ever fear in my life because I can always escape to this present moment right now the seeing hearing tasting touching smelling without contextualizing it without bringing a story that yes for all the years they did this to me and this happened and no just just forget about the the mind content and focus only of what is experienced directly here the sounds Could be the music, or could be the crying of an animal in the background, or could be the humming of the traffic, anything, the seeing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, that which happens presently.
And then the capacity for that processor to construct the self. Of a victim, of a suffering, poor, miserable little me, is diminished. Because the processing capacity is evenly distributed between the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. So it was an escape. As soon as I hit that, you know, that seeking path of spirituality, And of course, there was a lot of nomming, watching the satsangs just for the moment, just to get the reminders. And then when that escape way was discovered, the present moment, no matter how bad it gets in life, the present moment is a safe haven. But it was still conceptual.It was still the illusion of self doing it.
There was still a sense of me, a character, who is pulling out that escape valve and just running into this present moment. Well, the truth is way simpler. Bob would say it, try to get out of it. Just try to get out of it. You will see that you can only imagine getting out of it. You can only imagine that you are not present right here, right now. It is the imagination itself that creates the nightmare, the victim personality, the drama. Like Nisargadatta would say, nothing can ever trouble you except in your own imagination. You are always in here. You are always safe in that safe heaven of that present moment.
You are always hearing presently, seeing presently, experiencing presently. There is nothing else ever happening rather than the experiencing of the present moment plus the imagination. And that imagination, this shouldn't have happened to me, the second arrow, this is the drama, this shouldn't have. This is just a narrative. This is just the overlay of imagination, so-called constructed reality, constructed, not real, something that is constantly changing, something, the overlay that can be recognized and questioned.You are always present in this moment. And the narrative that says, yes, but I don't get it quite yet. I understand it intellectually. I am still seeking. I am still not permanently stabilized in there.
That I. Is the narrative self. That I is the imagination. That I is only here because there is a presence, because there is an aliveness in the presence.So, we have Svafka's thanks. We are inviting everyone to contribute again. Hi everybody. Hey. It's been a minute. Good to see you. I love coming here. We love having you. He said that that found me as a seeker. I was seeking something. I thought what I was seeking was outside of me, but instead he led me back to myself, capital S.Then Bob found me in unmanifest form. Again, I was seeking like-mindedness. Home. And now I am here. Thank you.
I wrote a poem. And when I say I, I don't mean me, small I. I mean the true meaning of I, which is pure awareness. That cannot be divided. One without the second. And so today I was inspired to come to share this. And I called it Journey Through Illusion. An illusion has come over us spontaneously. We've come to know that we are. From this the mind is birthed, along with the reality not far. I'm wondering why I'm here. I'm doing to pass the time. A time I was not aware existed. Until I identified with mine. I dance around the frequencies. Which vibration today will I choose?
Reality drags me down further. My sight I start to lose.All again you see, this I, mine, self and me, till I return there prior to memory, and now have set myself free. Oh, okay. You know, when I first came to Bob, I think I said it before, he goes, how did you get here? Everyone says the internet, YouTube, but it wasn't. It was the knowing that Bob was like a messenger sort of, not a messenger, but, you know, he had the words that you needed to see. You know, to let, you know, to let go of the story. And I think, you know, most of my life, I wanted an outcome.
And if you didn't get the outcome, it, you know, ruined you and you kept seeking and seeking. And the more, you know, you let go, things just happen. And even, you know, once upon a time being a real paper pleaser in my relationship, no matter what I did, I expected anything in return. But once you let go of that story, expecting an outcome, expecting someone to give it to you, It's like we already have it to give. And when I do things these days, you know, I know there's no time or whatever, but I don't need anything in return because it comes from just giving.
And I'm not only nourishing, you know, this body, but I'm nourishing someone else's body. And that's all.You don't need anything. You don't need to receive anything because you're already doing everything at the same time. And that's the beauty. And, you know, things, you know, something didn't turn out a few months ago, but next week I'm going to Sydney with my boys and it's going to be completely different. The outcome I don't know, but it wasn't what I was expecting, you know. So it's just allowing life to just come through you and not attach yourself to anything. And just letting go, you know, like Jamie said, you don't listen to as much spiritual stuff these days.
You just be. Things and life just does things in different ways. So thanks. In terms of baseline, it's like ultimately by taking the medicine, which is the spiritual concepts, the true healing, which is another word for healing, is wholeness. That's what basically return to wholeness, return to what was never left anyway, but the illusion is that you're not wholeness. That's the illusion. And maybe that's part of the game, you know, is because there's a lot of fun in being a me, you know, and in achieving in life and getting one up over others and all that sort of thing.Yeah, but for some of us it becomes...
It becomes intolerable after a while. You know, many people I know, maybe they're happy being a me and achieving in life, but I was similar to Bob in a way where the numbing of the suffering became so intolerable. The life of this character becomes so dysfunctional through drugs and alcohol that I use the analogy of, so, you know, say you're a teenager and your parents go away for the weekend and you've got the house to yourself. So what's the first thing you do? Ring up all your friends. Get them all over and you trash the joint. You have a party. And that's kind of what my life was like.
And in a way, it's like your parents came home early and they walked in in the middle of the party going, what the hell is going on here? You know, like, and... That essentially was my first awakening where the consciousness itself awoke to the absolute dysfunction of the life of this character and said, that's enough of that. That's enough. Clean up your mess.can put everything back together. And essentially that was the beginning of my spiritual journey because the spontaneous awakening occurred of the parents coming home going, what is going on here? And that was enough to turn my life around and stop that sort of destructive lifestyle.
But then I took on the new identity of becoming, because whatever that feeling of awakening was, when it eventually went away, like those experiences do, I want that. I want that back again. So that turned the drug addict into a spiritual drug addict where, you know, meditating, become vegetarian, you know, like did all the spiritual sort of things, reading all the books, learning all the techniques and led to sort of 10 years. And my suffering was just as intense as that spiritual character. I'm going, what the fuck? I'm doing everything right. I'm like doing this, ABC. I'm meditating five hours a day. I'm eating only tofu.
You know, and that was the point I met Bob. And that's where he found me at that point of that intense spiritual seeking. And within one meeting,And that was just by grace because it wasn't me that did that. It wasn't me that woke up. I woke up to the me. From the me. From the me. And because Bob's pointing was so simple and so direct, I knew about the ego and the me and I was trying to pacify it and destroy it and meditate it away. I remember sitting in meditation because I set up in my garage. I made a meditation room and I put candles and incense and decorated it all so it looked like a zen kind of zendo or whatever.
And I'd sit there in meditation and at a certain point after 45 minutes, everything would just melt away. And there would be just like just a sense of overall peace. But that peace would last for about two seconds until the thought arise, I've got it. And that was always the end of it. I just remember sitting there going, I've got it. It's gone. Because that's the nature of this self. It wants to claim all of those experiences like it did that initial awakening. It claimed that. I remember thinking, I can teach people this. I'm going to become like a guru and teach people because I'm like Christ.
Because until you catch on to the...ego's trap if it comes through the back door it's like the policeman trying to catch the thief you know that um and that keeps reasserting itself until it stops until it's seen that even the reasserting of itself is fine because it seems like oh let's do it again Because it's automatic because I didn't do the thought, I got it. It happened. And it's not the thing, oh, I've got to stop doing that. No, I'm not doing it. I'm not reasserting myself. No, it's so whatever, those thoughts can arise. I got it, I'm better than everybody else. It doesn't matter because none of it's me.
It's like because you've never left. Left that so that's the initial it's not not that that should stop or that you have to stop doing that it's just the seeing of oh that's the game that the ego plays it's going to always try and come in through the back door and claim and until in you know and then finally that scene and even even that's fine because there's no belief it's only the it's only the energy of belief that goes into that thought that i do that is my thought that's the feeling of doership that oh you know you're back in in the shit again where it can't pull you back into the shit again unless
you believe it to be so, unless you believe you can actually drink from that oasis, the mirage that you see, that you're going to get a bucket of blue water from the ocean, while you believe that you can get that bucket of blue ocean, it'll pull you back in the shit.
But once it's fully... Seen that you're not going to get that bucket of blue water, it can appear and express however it wants to. And that's the freedom. Anyone else? Yeah. Look, I really enjoy coming to these meetings and to hear different expressions. So, but always, they're never quite the same as what I would say. And so... This is really what Colcris is saying, okay? So it's like life has been sort of divided up into step A and step B and then step A. And step A was when I was a tiny baby. And I can't really remember that, but it seemed unlikely. That I had any concepts or ideas about anything.
In other words, if I was a baby, I would say, what's this? You know, and that's all, nothing else.And then my early life, I was brought up in Christianity. And I was taught that there was a me and there was God. And my job was to do God's will. And, you know, that led into some pretty painful... stuff. I mean really, really self-deprecating stuff and that was pretty painful. And my parents and my school teachers and the people at work and all my peer group and everybody else had told me about this, okay? And, you know, Sometime around when I was 20, I read something that I didn't understand that made me feel that there was a bit more than this story that I had been taught about this.
It was more to it than met the eye. And I started seeking. And I saw, I did all the normal things like Buddhism and Muslim and everything, you know, all of it.Christian scientists, everything. And I sort of slowly got more towards the sort of stuff that's taught in this room, yeah? And then... One day when I was in this room, I suddenly saw I guess what everybody was pointing to, not everybody, but certainly Bob was pointing to this room. I saw that the really, this, this, the, the, the, the, the, I, that I felt myself to be, was indeed just a mental concept and whether it existed in any form whatsoever,who I was had claimed identity with this body and was acting as a pseudo-subject from this body.
Okay, and that was a big change because I changed from B back to A. And it was sort of like instant, instantaneous. And the first thing that occurred to me as I was sitting there, I was thinking, wow.I've always been like this, you know? It's that I sort of always really knew this. It's like a cosmic joke. Huh? A cosmic joke. That's right. I always really knew this. And that was, and it wasn't amazing. It was just, I just saw it, you know, and it wasn't something that I jumped up and down about. In fact, there was nobody there who, I was really clear there was nobody really there to jump up and down.
You know, it was just, this is it, you know, like that. And, you know, so, okay, so let me just talk a tiny bit about being back, as it were, in that understanding.You know, there is, I say there is an appearance of this body. I don't really know what it is, but it does things and it acts in certain ways. And I use the word I when I refer to its... Apparent activities. So, I don't have any problem about doing that. It's easy. It's easy out there. Nobody looks at you as if you're mad. And I can live with this sort of duality of understanding.
But the thing is, I don't take the story as real. And I think that for me, it's been wonderful because there's nobody there really to take any pain or any... Flack or anything. I can let things go, things arise in this body, I look at them and I think, well, okay, that's all right, and they let go, and that's good. So I call that a bit like the aims of traditional psychology. I think the Western psychology istotally hoodwinked by the story. Okay, and that's what it talks about. It's totally in the story. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Exactly, exactly, yeah. So, so, I really don't have anything much else to say.
I think, Cole, also, as far, you know, like you're talking about everything's just, you know, let go. And I know exactly what you mean, but it's more than that. It's more that there's nothing for them to attach to. You know, as things move through you, it's not, there used to be like a stickiness, that the feeling of being the me is like life is sticky, moving through a kind of soup and things stick to you and experience a stick and attach to this sense of... Me and once that that is is no longer present then it's not as things come you let because there's no one to let them go but there's just nothing for them to attach to so same as the feelings i was talking about before and that they all come up but there's nothing that they attach to because it's when they attach to that sense of me that they tend to literally stick around for a lot longer than they need to and that meHe is always trying to deal with those issues that come.
Now I've got to deal with this. How am I going to deal with it? How am I going to deal with these feelings? Whereas when that is seen through, there's just literally, it's like the clouds in the sky. There's nothing that the clouds are going to attach to. The clouds move freely. They don't leave a residue behind or anything like that. It's just, they're just free to be, was it, whatever it is. Yeah, yep, fine. And I absolutely agree with all that. And I just wanted to say one more thing, and I don't know whether this is going to be very popular, me saying this at all, but I'm going to say it anyway.
But, you know, there is no story, or there is no belief in the story. And there is no belief in any story whatsoever. So if somebody asks, who am I really? I say, I don't know. I actually do not know anything whatsoever. It's an honest answer. Yeah. Because what do we do when someone says, oh, who are you? I go, well, this is my name. And it's interesting because many years ago that led, because I had many spiritual experiences and my very initial awakening was 20 odd years ago. And I remember hearing this fellow in an interview just simply say, what we are is not.our name, what we do for a living, our body.
And it was just that concept had never passed through. I never considered that before. And it just, it must have gone straight through and hit what I am and just went boom. And it was, you know, it was like, God, I never considered that. Of course, I really thought I was my name and I'm so invested in that. You know, it's like, you know, and that investment in the outcome of that story that is created. And that's what our brain does. The brain is a story generating. Kind of machine that wants to turn everything into a story. And it's like Bob used to say, like, you know, like you, I have a concept about myself.
You may have a concept about who I am and everybody's concept story is totally different. So what's true? None of it's true. And, and, That was the understanding that eventually dawned here was like, whatever my brain is telling me or is bringing up, none of it's true. It's all just stories and it's none of my business in a way. Yeah. But that's what the brain will probably keep doing that. And it's fine.I remember a few weeks ago, I think it was at lunch, either with Dean or Tanya, we were laughing. And someone said the joke like, oh, that poor bugger. They've been on the wrong path their whole life.
And we just all started cackling ourselves laughing just at the absurdity that you can be on the wrong path. And it was just a joy knowing. There is no wrong. It's all all right. You can't fuck it up. You can't fuck it up. I wonder, Jim and Rachel, would you add something or would you just say a word or not really? Yeah, I always liked listening to you. All base. It's time. We moved out of the ant hills. Yeah. What can I say? It's simple and quick.That there is, is. That there is not, is not. That is it, is it not. The first time I recall being influenced in a significant way by Bob was when he pointed out the rather obvious, which was this is that appearing as a couch.
Is that appearing as a phone. And it just changed the view of the entire world, the creation, in a flash. It was instant. And from there, it set the road ahead at the time it was perceived as a road ahead, of looking at things differently. And eventually it came down tothe rather simple but not so obvious at the time result that what is required is to give attention, full attention all the time. And that way the creation doesn't appear. It doesn't appear to affect us. It's just a phenomenon that has appeared out of the substrate of the infinite indivisible consciousness. And it's just there. We don't have any duty or obligation to do anything about it.
The practice of giving full attention is really just the practice of tending at whatever is, whatever appears. And tending is all about love. So if we give attention, as Simone Weil, the French philosopher, said, attention is the highest form ofgratitude. It's the highest form of I'm looking for. Generosity, the highest form of generosity. And in giving attention, we're being generous to that which is. And I found that profoundly powerful. It turned the previous world upside down. And dissolved it effectively. And since then, what's been discovered is that When I sit to meditate, I connect with the silence between each thought, between each word. And that silence just creates, the more it's focused upon, the more it's connected with through attention, the wider the gap becomes between successive thoughts.
Until there are no thoughts. And they all just seem to dissolve into no-thingness. And it's that no-thingness which is my true self, which is the one and the only that there is. Bringing me back to that first statement, that is...That is not, is not. The imagined self, as Bob pointed out, is just that. It is just imagination, the play in the mind. It's an appearance. It's a distraction from giving your attention to the true self. And it's a game. Which we can play the game nicely, or we can play it competitively or resentfully or in many other ways. But the thing is to just let it be as it is, as it appears.
Thank you. I think that's time. I think that's time. I think that's that. Yes. Ring the bell. Yes. Ring the bell. And this is... Thank you. Red faces. Remember red faces? Yes.