Space is already unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. ND on 13Jul2025

And there is Tanya and we're going to invite Jamie to maybe swap the chairs with her. Awesome.I'm just going to reposition both of you. Hi, Bob. Thanks, mate. Good morning, everyone. Good morning to myself.I'm not much good at spiels, but I really, okay. But I thought maybe I'd just share a little bit from the understanding here. I just saw another one of Bob's books and it's called As It Is. So that kind of...inspired a sharing. And as it is, is this. And then Bob will go on to say, as it is, unaltered, unmodified, and uncorrected. What did Bob mean by that? I heard Bob say that from the start, and it's one of those pointers that's grown in understanding more and more throughout seeming time.Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected means Well, the way it's seen here now is to just See what's happening.

Because we often sort of go to war with reality and most of it's in our mind. What is it that wants to alter, modify and correct what is? It's a thought.A thought arises. And there's a seeming belief there that the thoughts are ours, that we are the thinker of the thoughts. So when a thought arises, this is an understanding that happened early on here. I presume everybody knows who they are. Everybody experiences himself as awareness. Is there anybody that doesn't know the truth of who they are here? Put your hand up if you don't. Okay, so I just assume. Everybody knows that they are aware that they exist, that they are that base reality.

Now that base reality doesn't have any contention or problem with what is. The only seemingbelief that comes up is that there is a center, a self, and that self is trying to navigate through the world, trying to mold the world into into what it sees as a more comfortable place to exist and sort of moving towards things that are more pleasurable, trying to avoid painful situations. So as we're moving through life as that seeming self,the so-called suffering that seems to arise is the is the feeling that things need to be different. Than as what they are. Now Bob also used the point of what's wrong with right now if we don't think about it.

And it's easy to see that if without a thought,There is no problem. There is no wanting to alter, modify or correct. And that's a very basic and important pointer. But I think if we don't grasp what he means by unaltered, unmodified and uncorrected, then we're going to quickly go back into belief, into the thought stream. So many years ago when I first saw what Bob was pointing to, which is our true nature, which is that reality, It was easily seen. It's easy to see without a thought just the basic awareness, the I am-ness that we are.But for this body-mind, it ended a lot of suffering, but there was still resistance there.

There was still wanting things to be not as they were, but as this believed-in reference point thought they could be. Most of it fell away, but there was still that subtle belief, and that's what needs to be continually investigated and looked into.So unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected means also It means the totality, actually, because... As it is. Yeah, it is. It's very simple. What I noticed early on is there was a rejection of some thoughts over others. So when an uncomfortable thought would arise, there would be a kind of cutting off, a rejection of that thought, which is kind of helpful in the beginning because it can stop that from continuing on into a story.

But there's also a subtle rejection as well too that that thought shouldn't be there. And that in itself is a subtle sort of modifying of what is. So therefore, in the rejection of that thought, in the stopping and the cutting off of it, it's sort of energizing that particular thought pattern to continue arising. What was ultimately discovered is that no thoughts are a problem.thoughts thoughts that can arise and fall away themselves without look I think it was a Nisigadatta he said you know we're dreaming and the only problem is we love some part of the dream and not other parts and he said he said come in he said love all of it or love none of it And it's just helpful to notice that there's still parts of the dream that we may be kind of rejecting or not loving.

And in that way, that's a kind of like bypassing when those feelings, emotions, thoughts arise. That there can be a stepping out of it. And a into presenceBut there's a subtle rejection of that thought, feeling or emotion that may be arising that is in a way still that self-centre attempting to alter, modify or correct what is. What I eventually found it helpful to notice is once the identification from thought that is totally removed, that no thought is uncomfortable, no feeling is uncomfortable, no emotion is either comfortable or uncomfortable. It's only from that reference point that we give that the meaning it has as in, I don't like this feeling, I like that feeling, and that's still coming from that self-centre, that subtle.

self-center. The true understanding of unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected includes everything, includes all of it, includes what we label as uncomfortable thoughts or uncomfortable emotions or even pleasant thoughts and emotions about how wonderful it is to be this presence. I'm awake. It's great.You know, I understand things that other people don't understand and, you know, and a kind of specialness that arises with that as well too, that all of that is a subtle altering of what is. The true seeing of what Bob was pointing us to is that we are actually None of those things that arise, you know, the feeling of specialness, the uncomfortable thoughts, the uncomfortable feelings, none of those arisings in consciousness.

They're all just a movement. They're not us. We are not any thoughts. I noticed early on there was a feeling it's okay to be the thinker of thoughts if they're good thoughts. And you can be a self-centre if it's a pleasant self-centre, so you can fall back into that. And then when it gets uncomfortable, we kind of, okay, I'll go back to being present now. But it never at any time are we that self, that reference point. It's totally a phantom, even when it's having pleasant thoughts and thoughts of specialness and whatever. So if you're going to identify with the specialness and the pleasant thoughts of being a self-centre, you're still going to be prone to the uncomfortable thoughts.

Even if you do manage to bypass them and cut them off, there's still a subtle identification there.The truth of what's pointed out is we're none of the thoughts, we're none of the feelings. We are totally not affected by any of them. doesn't mean that they're ever going to stop. They're going to keep going on. The specialness thoughts, the uncomfortable thoughts, all of them, but left as they are, not cut off, so to speak, not rejected, pushed away or anything, but just left to come up, arise, play around and move on. Like the weather comes up and plays around and moves on, it's windy, the wind dies down, the thoughts arise about whatever, But it's when there's an identification with the thought and even the cutting off of the thought is still a subtle identification because you think, oh, this thought has the ability to affect me.

I better stop it. I better go back to presence. It's still a subtle, subtle trap that we're caught in. The real freedom is freedom from all of those thoughts. So when the thought arises, an uncomfortable thought, it will have its natural energetic flow. But if it's got nothing to hook onto, if there is no... what's the word, sort of engagement. And it's an energy.energetic engagement of belief that this thought actually has some meaning or some importance because it's the only that's the only thing that that can give the thought because I thought any thought or feeling on its on its own has no power at all it's it's just It's an illusion.

We give everything the meaning it has through our energetic input into the energy of belief that gives the thought the power to hurt us. It's never about the thought. It's always about our belief in separation. And it gets, I guess the reason I feel this is important to point out is because that belief in separation gets more and more subtle and it's helpful to notice the subtleties of that when they're And any feeling of attachment to any of the thoughts is always a good opportunity to investigate, okay, so what are these thoughts attaching to? What I discovered is that any thought, situation, occurrence, memory that arises if it creates a feeling an uncomfortable feeling in the body a sort of response or rejectionof it, it's never ever about the situation or the thought or what occurred or what somebody said to us.

It's never about the external situation. It's always about still that subtle belief in a me that is still lingering, that hasn't been really rooted out by investigation. And because it's easily pointed out, we understand early on that our happiness is never to be found in anything external from us.In other words, we don't find our happiness in the world. Our happiness is our nature. But also, there is nothing in the world, and when I say the world, the external things, it's also the mind, because the mind is external to us, and the feelings and the emotion are external to us. So nothing external from us has the ability to hurt us as well, too.

So if there's an uncomfortable feeling of separation arising, it's always coming from that subtle belief in this reference point that needs to be looked at again.It's such a freedom when you're no longer bound by whatever arises situationally in the mind. Because the real freedom... Is total freedom from that belief that there is any reference point, any individual, separate Jamie, Kat, Tanya, whatever. There is, in this room at the moment, there's only one thing happening, and it's just that reality walking itself home together because we're all... That there is no separate bodies there's no separate individuals there's no Jamie there is just that one reality and together we come to this understanding together because it's my understanding that we're all waking up together there's no individual that ever wakes up.

Jamie doesn't ever wake up. Tanya doesn't wake up.There's only the one waking up to itself, dreaming the dream of all these multiple forms of being all these different faces and these different situations. You know, I used to hear about in Buddhism to have the the concept of the Bodhisattva. The Bodhisattva is the sage who awakens but doesn't go through to final extinction until everybody in the world wakes up. You know, he will stay and continue. And I used to think, geez, that's magic. You've got to wake up everybody in the world and this body's fat has got to... That's impossible because that's just a total misunderstanding.

It's still seeing us as individuals because when we... We wake up together because we are all that one reality. It can't just wake up in one body and be asleep in another body. Then it would have to be separate realities, wouldn't it? It would have to be different realities waking up in different bodies. That's still separation. The one essence, that non-duality is that one intelligence. Waking up through all of these separate body minds to realize that actually there are no separate body minds. It's just a reflection.We're sort of watching a movie we call life and we've become identified with the characters on the screen. And we've called them me and caught up in the drama.

And we've forgotten that we're actually just the audience. That the movie is just a movie, nothing ever happened. And that together we'll wake up and include anybody, seeming body, hello, myself out there, watching this in cyber land or whatever, to realize, to not lose heart because the awakening is... Is a mass awakening of the whole reality waking up to itself all at once through all you know through all these body minds which are just illusions andWhat is helpful to notice is that is that there is no individual that can wake up. And that totally removes the feeling of specialness, which is a kind of trap that we can fall into when we do begin to sort of awaken to this reality that I've got something that others don't have.

I've got some sort of special information and it's still that disease of the separate self. There's nothing right nor wrong about that and it's all a, seems to be a sort of stage.And is it Jordan? Someone else wants to come in. Come in. But it is a dream. We're dreaming the dream together. It's the one dream. There's no separate dreams. It seems like there's a separate dream, but that's all illusion. We can be free of that. Bob's pointer of unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. It's basically just stop trying to alter the movie because if you use the analogy of the movie and we as that reality are in the audience watching the movie.

It's just as crazy as trying to change what's happening in the movie. You know, I don't like this scene. You know, it shouldn't be this. It's just a movie, you know. And we can move along. We can enjoy the movie and with its ups and downs. there's no need for anything to be other than what it is because the only the only reason that we would want to change anything in the movie is with if we believe you're one of the characters in the movie then there's good reason to want to change itBecause once we're identified as a character in the movie, then we're invested in the script.

And it's off into the multiplicity of duality. And duality can go on dividing, dividing, dividing forever. And that's the kind of track that we believe. That we're in that is actually, it's never been true. It's never, never, ever been that way. We've never, ever been the character in the movie. And all these other characters as well too. They're just plays of light on the screen. Just as if you look at your own experience, this worldwithout a thought, without a concept, is totally meaningless. It's like a raw shark block where we kind of project onto it all the meaning it has and we give it the ability to either be a heaven or a hell.

But all of that is the delusion of the individual. The only choice, the seeming choice that there seems to be is whether we're going to continue to identify as the character in the movie or realise and stay with what the reality is, is that the movie is just appearing to us as that reality, same as it appears to us in our nighttime dreams. It's no different. There's nothing wrong with identifying with the movie. If the movie's fun and you want to keep doing it, it doesn't change the fact of what we are at any stage.But that's the choice, you know, and Bob would always sort of

reiterate the point it's like you know take your stand that's what you are don't what did he say don't what did nisigata say don't refuse to be what you are and i don't know if it it's that that's that's don't pretend yeah what is it don't pretend Yeah.

To not be what you are. Yeah. Well, because ultimately that is, it's just pretending, you know, we're pretending that we're not that reality. Yeah, yeah. I guess coming back to the original pointer isIf we're taking our stand as that separate self, then there's going to be a want to alter, modify and correct because once we're that character, we're bound by this, we're in a body that's going to die, things are going to hurt us. You know, people are going to say nasty things. So it's natural that we want to alter, modify and correct because that's the nature of separation is that we feel like we've got to survive, we've got to move through the world and engage in the world.

Stepping back into the reality that there's always been.There's no need because that reality has no requirement for anything to be as it is. And I guess it's a good pointer to where we are at any moment, whether we're coming from that self-centre or whether we're resting as that reality. Is there a need for anything to be anything other than what it is? Is that reality has no requirement, has no need for anything to be as it is. So I guess all I'm suggesting is You know, don't fight with thoughts. Don't reject or accept different thoughts. Just disregard them all. The mind can be a wonderfully creative instrument and inspiration can flow through the mind and express through the body-mind.

And it tends to do that much, much more easily once that belief in the self-centre is not there anymore. Then this body can express and it can be very creative.But even when it's being creative and expressing, it's still not you. It's still an instrument that the life force is moving through in a creative way. And ultimately, I guess what I wanted to share when I said I wanted to share from my... Understanding that's happened here is that ultimately none of the thoughts are, because there used to be a dividing up of the thoughts in, oh, these are self-centered thoughts, these are not. But none of the thoughts, none of the thoughts are us.

What the reality doesn't think, doesn't have concepts, doesn't speak or express or reject or accept or like, dislike. There is no duality in non-duality. It is the totality of all that is. Now from that perspective, seeing the thoughts from that perspective, there's no differentiation between the wonderful creative thoughts and the self-centered thoughts arising. They're both arising in that and neither are... Wonderful or problematic.It's just what's happening. And in that understanding, It's left as it is, not fighting, not wanting to change anything as it is. There's a real ease and relaxation that happens in the body-mind, not in the reality because the reality doesn't know relaxation.

But the body feels a contraction when there is a belief in separation. And when everything is left as it is and there's no need to change, alter, modify or correct anything, The natural response of the body-mind is relaxation. And a sense of ease and comfort, which is the natural state of all our organisms. The feeling of contraction, of discomfort is an unnatural state and it doesn't have to be that way. It's a very, very simple... Message that Bob left us with is that we can, like I said from the start, there's nobody, I'm sure there's nobody in this room that doesn't know who they are, that doesn't sense that presence, awareness.non-conceptual presence awareness that we are.

I guess what I wanted to point out is just the subtleties of even the expressions of the self-centre, the thought which seems to be made of thought, but it's not actually made of thought. No thought, thoughts are totally benign. movements, subtle movements of energy. It's the meaning that we give the thought and when that thought catches us. Like I've noticed in my own experience, there may be certain thoughts, a memory that arises that creates a subtle feeling of contraction in that moment. And the contraction isn't actually coming from the thought itself. Because at any other time, that thought can arise and it's not a problem.

It's just at that moment there's a seeming, even subtle, momentary belief that that thought has actually any meaning. And even that contraction as it arises, left as it is, is not a problem. None of it is a problem, even if there is subtle feelings, if there's subtle, this subtle belief in a self. It's like a sticky situation to sort of point out in words.Even that belief, even that subtle belief, even if it's momentary, is still not a problem left as it is. But if we try to change it, try to reject it, then we're just creating... More things and then Bob would say as that arises leave that also unaltered unmodified uncorrected and something that just leave everything as it is and over the seeming course of time in this body mind has created a lot more relaxation and ease and comfort And I believe it has for all of us because we are all that one reality walking ourself home ultimately.Because it is, we're all waking up, all of us, wherever you're watching from, we're all waking up together to that.

We all know that we are that reality. Yeah, look, it's a wonderful thing and it gives me a great deal of pleasure to share it with myself. Because that's all that's here. There's only that one reality. And all these seeming bodies, you know, it's all an illusion. The separation is just an illusion. There's nothing, actually, there's nothing happening at all. The dream itself will continue. But in this understanding, the dream will become happier and become less problematic to any seeming individual that could believe it's there. And that's the good news. That's the gospel that Jesus spoke about. That's all the gospel is. It's the good news.

And, you know, the good news is this is it.Yeah. So any doubts or questions or? We all understand, don't we? We all can feel it. You can feel it. You can feel it in this subtle vibration of even what we call our body, which is just ajust a collection of sensations. You know, there's the sensation of a visual appearance of a body. There's a sensation of a subtle vibration that's flowing through the body. There's a feeling of a seat, you know, the bum sitting on the seat, feeling of warmth from the heater. And that is all an expression of the reality. It's only the concepts that come in and then start to alter, modify and correct.

This seat's a little bit hard. I wish I had a softer seat. I'm a sore bum. The heat is a bit hot. Could we get it turned in? And that's where the mind comes in. So prior to the concepts arising, What are we? We're just that pure experience, the pure vibration, the seeing, the feeling. The tasting, the touching. That is reality, and that's the reality that we're all experiencing at this moment, prior to concepts, prior to any concept that arises that wants to alter what is.Yeah, that's about all I've got to say anyway. Do you want to have your seat back, Kat? Yeah, you can have a more comfortable seat then.

Yeah, I know. Complaining about the seat. There you go. Okay. Let's see. I'll just... I'm sure that'll go. And again, welcome everyone and everyone who is online with us. And we have a beautiful contribution, which is really matching. And by the way, that was gorgeous. You know, the beautiful potent metaphor of the movie or the acting or a dream is really just to inspire the spontaneous recognition. And Gilbert took it to quite the next level, in my opinion. I really appreciate it. I know Gilbert doesn't like to be appreciated too much, but sorry, I'll have to say it. There is, Gilbert says, there are no prescriptions, methods or practices.

The self-centered me is total fiction, a fictional character, Mickey Mouse. Cannot jump out of the screen and do anything. As Bob says, oh, there you go.As Bob says, leave it as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, or unmodified, uncorrected, unaltered. What is, is what is. You cannot change what is. And that's why I like the metaphor that he kind of took it to the next level because it's a popular sort of a pointer to associate the whole appearance, the manifested world with a dream or with an actor acting or even the book when there is a dream character. We kind of stretched it. I love them all.

But having a cartoon. A joke it's like if you actually look at that mickey mouse either in the comic book or on the screen how could the mickey mouse possibly awaken or recognize he is that the guy that drew it And apparently it wasn't Walt Disney that drew it. It was some other guy, Oop, Ewerk or someone. And it happened on the same year as Bob was born, 1928. But how could the dream character, the Mickey Mouse, how could that character ever become the one who drew it? That is out of question. It's absolutely impossible. It can never happen. Mickey Mouse can jump out of it.Skin can do whatever antics on the TV screen or in the book, and it will never, ever transform him to that e-work or whatever the name of the guy was.

You can't change the script. Absolutely not. It's written. The script is not the writer of the script. It's a joke. Yeah. To even try. To even try. That's it. To try. Unmodified, uncorrected, unaltered. It's a beautiful pointer. But what comes before that even is a recognition. It can't be done. No. There was never any capacity to leave anything as it is or not. You've never, ever had that capacity. You are just the character in the movie, you know. It's just happening as it is. Even the, that's what's so beautiful, even the drive or the compulsion or the wish or the desire to leave things as is, that's written in the script as well.

That's not, you've got no control over anything. You can't even let it be. But we say, let it be. And there's a relaxing. And that's all perfectly, beautifully fine, as it should be in the script of theThe movie, the dream, the illusion. Wow. Just, ah, wow, the freedom. The freedom. The freedom. In that, in that, in that recognition, natural recognition, the dream character loses all the hope. Whatever the dream character could possibly imagine that can be done, austerities, practices, trying, loving, bowing down, It's all futile in recognition that the dream character has absolutely no power. There is no doership at all. It can't even choose to relax.

It can't do anything. It isn't real. In that, there is a certain amount of perhaps hopelessness. But at the same time, it's a complete surrender. Like, okay, if I can't do anything, like the guy in the phone box. Bob had the little story about the guy who actually walked out of the meeting completely offended that he is not the doer. And on the way home, and he was living far away, he stopped in a phone box and called Bob and just shouted at him that if I am not the doer, I'm not going to do anything ever again. I'm not going to go to work.

I'm not going to do anything ever again. And Bob just said, peacefully, okay, try and stay in the phone box. See if you can do even that. Because not being a doer meansYou have no saying of not doing either. You have never done a thing. Yeah, that's it. But again, the whole pointing is the invitation to recognize that the one who is not the doer, the Mickey Mouse, the dream character, is not your essential self. Ask a dream character. You're fucked. But you're not it. You are not it. What you are is already relaxed. What you are is already leaving everything unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No need for trying.

What you are is that cognizing emptiness, that space in which the vehicle is driving, the dream character is responding, the dream character is playing its script without any volition, without any choice. And this is why I actually see the metaphor of Mickey Mouse so potent. You know, when you are playing a role of a mother, it's kind of harder. Or a role of a widow or a role of a whatever the role you're playing or employee. It's kind of, the contrast is not as bright to see that, what do you mean I'm not it? What do you mean I'm not Katerina? What do you mean I'm not?

Woman or what Bob says after all I'm onlyhuman well you mean I'm not it but when you bring a Mickey Mouse well obviously it didn't create itself obviously it doesn't have any sentience so the dream character that you may still like what Jamie was saying miss Argadatta would say don't pretend to be what you're not the hypnotic dream, the hypnotic suggestion that I am this body, because this body is all that I can actually experience as an avatar in the world. That's my vehicle, that's my car, that's my costume, that's my house, that's all that I'm aware of in an objective way. But because, just because I'm aware of it as an object, can objectify it, well, the awareness itself is prior to any objectification.

That's why it feels like I am the dream character, but I couldn't possibly be it. No, you couldn't possibly be it. You've never been it. No matter, it appears as if in the dream or in the movie, one has reached a state of relaxation and nothing has ever changed. No one reached that. No one got anywhere. There was never any one entity. It was never there.It's a joke. It is all a joke. And you know it. You know it intrinsically. But it's fun. You actually, you know, all the stuff that's happening in the dream, it's enjoyable. It's, you know, it's... Interesting, you know, it's unfolding.

And guess what? Whether you like it or not, you can't get out. That's it. This is it. It's as good as it gets. So, you know, just okay. Yeah. Okay. Relax. Meh. Just adding on top of that, of course, is that it's only happening now. You know, there is, how can there be anything but now? And the awareness and consciousness is only now, which frees you, like you've all said, you become so much more free when you say, ah, I'm not in control, I'm not the doer. But awareness is ever-present, ever new. And the freedom and the vitality, regardless of what the story is going on, the intensity of the freedom.and vitality that occurs in the present moment is just so liberating.

I think that's, we've all hinted at that and pointed at that, that direct experiencing. And of course, you know, really all we have, all we can ever experience is right now, wherever you are in the world, wherever you are in the, during the different times of the day, it's only ever now, it's such a joy. Yeah, the freedom of that and the relaxation of trying to control everything. Yeah, I just wanted to add that one. Yes, beautiful. And it's funny enough now, that's a pointer which is never enough to highlight and to bring forth, because yes, that's the precise distinction between what is really happening, what is known directly, and what is happening within that beautiful, brilliant projector, which interprets and superimpose the overlay of that on that present moment with the context with the nice story and I've been going through such really really colorful experience of discovering what this projector tends to assign what meaning it tends to assign to particular situation and you could see quite like polar opposite meanings in one moment the whole projector is interpreting situation as whatever for example hostile or unsafe in someway and then it flips and it projects the situation completely different but what have I done about that there's no I to do anything it is just the space the present moment in which there is raining or there is cold or there is hot or there is just seeing hearing tasting touching smelling and within that present moment there is also arising an interpretation on contextualizing a situation of family situation of political situation or whatever it is but this one is always secondary it is always subject to change and it's always to be put in a second place And the first, the primary is that visceral present experience of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

That's why the priority is always the gut instinct. And then whatever it is interpreted to be or to mean is a dream. And it is a dream which is absolutely mind-blowing, fascinating. It is a dream that like, wow, oh my goodness, brilliant. Yeah. But it is dream nevertheless. And remembering that there is no part of the dream that is not amazing in a way, because you never know. This machinery is a mystery. Your own biocomputer is a mystery for you and it will remain a mystery for you for the rest of your life.because the complexity of this projector is so infinite and it is constantly being updated, that having an attitude of the happy learner, discoverer, a curious space-like awareness in which you just learn about every new response that is new and predictable, sometimes it may be somewhat as expected.

But if you actually open your mind and open your heart to be surprised, you will. You will. And it is ever new, ever fresh. And it is, as Tanya was saying, it is right. It is fun. And it is. Well, yes, absolutely. Even that. Yes. Even that. Even what appears, you know, to be crap, the shitty situation or whatever, and it passes. None of the stuff in the dream is constant. Yeah. You know, wavers. And even within the body, you know, experiencing or directly experiencing, sometimes the body can be in great distress, but there's still something which is not in distress. Yes. That is completely just present in the way.

Yes. And so, you know, even though, you know, sometimes the body can overwhelm that awareness for a short period of time, but actually it doesn't. It just casts a shadow slightly on it. But, yeah, there's something we never touched by any of that. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, totally.So choose one or three. I forget all. Just wanted to ask, when you say there is something that doesn't experience the stress, do you experience it in a level of sensory perception, yes or no? There's no denying of what is being experienced right now in any capacity. That means bodily sensations, bodily functions, bodily, you know, hunger or, you know, fatigue or something.

There's no rejection of any of that. But there's something which is never tired and never hungry. To what you refer in order to say that experience is your experience. Do you experience it with your sensory perception? Senses is how we experience this level of existence to some degree. Imagination is also present, you know, desire, all those things, impact, but none of it is denied. It is the experiencing we're having right at this moment. None of it's the mind. I got the answer because you mentioned the imagination as an experience. I just remember imagination cannot be experienced with sensory perception. Do you agree with the secret with that?

Well, we talk about also the human traits of Christ.Creativity and imagination, you know, that's something, you know, we can categorise it or go down to a discussion in it, but to simplify it, that doesn't take us anywhere. It's just a sort of mental discussion of the mind. Sorry? What you're pointing to is prior to the sensory perception. Actually, no, it includes all of that, this sensory. It includes it all, but it doesn't, is not touched by it. It's just direct experiencing going on. So, sorry, just to get back to your question. What was that about? I think what's the background of the foreground cannot come into the foreground.

Otherwise, it wouldn't remain as a background. So there's... Yes, yes, yes. The reason that I imply in my language that it's separate is because that's the only way I talk about it or anyone else can talk about it. You can't talk about it without separating it, without using the words. Ah, yeah. I guess when we're discussing it, there is mind coming in and words coming in to try and delineate. This or that but definitely the the whole thing of time is such a profound um trigger for this one here you know and has been you know that there is nothing but now and not just now i mean like the tense the intimate bit of now Just that.And really, that's all we have.

And nobody is separate to that. Nobody is outside of that. There's nothing separate to that. Even the awareness is part of that in that moment. But there's something which is not affected by hot, cold, sad, happy, you know, black, white, nothing. There's an awareness in all of us which we communicate. That's what we're communicating. I do it all around the world. Communication there like that, everybody knows it because it's the most intimate part of experiencing. The most intimate part is not separate from it. None of it is separate. That's the thing. If there's only now and the minuscule moment of now, how can anything be separate?

And there's no distance. This present moment is eternity. Yes. Because if we look at the definition of eternal, eternal is that which has no beginning and no end. And I challenge anyone to find a beginning to this moment or an end to it. Yes. You know, this is the eternal. Right here. Yeah. Singularity. Yeah. There's nothing else. That's non-duality. No. This is your actual experience. This is it?As it is. As it is. And also I'd like to add to that that there's a continuous movement at this level of experiencing. There's continuous movement. Like Bob would say, the cells are not the same they were a minute ago.

You know, there's continuous movement which suggests time, but it's not really. It's just movement. It's just a movement. And actually the joy of just being present and totally involved in that movement, but also there's an awareness of that as well. Not separate. It's not separate to it. Happening within awareness. The joy of freedom of that is quite magnificent, I think. That's what we all talk about. It's moving through. Because everything's kind of backwards in the sense of separation. So in the sense of separation, there's a feeling that I am this object moving through time and space. And achieving my goals. Whereas the reality is totally the opposite.

This eternal moment is all there is. Moving through this eternal moment is the illusion of time and space. It's like when you're... When you're in your car, the feeling is when you're driving along in your car that the world is all coming at you, that you're not in the car moving along. And that's kind of what...this energy, movement of energy, which we call the appearance of the world, is it's moving through us. We are a static. We don't, there is no, in the reality, there is no time or space. It's just pure stillness. Moving through that is the movie. The movement of energy and it through that belief that we are a separate entity all of a sudden we believe now that we're the entity moving through time and space everything's ass backwards you know and when you say we who do you referring to us the reality That's all there is.

Which is the inseparable, boundless, infinite, everything can't hang. It's not possible to do so. I bet you can't deny the fact that you are. And I also can wish and will to do my best to... You know, rest in that, be with it, so I can be transparent and capable of serving people. Well, you don't even need to rest in it because you are it. And that still identifies with the individual, the separateness. See, the greatest suffering comes from identifying as you as separate to everything else. And that's, you know, the desire to work hard to be the best you can. You know, I mean, you can put all sorts of moral things on that, but the reality is...That means that you are capable of achieving something.

Yeah, I just realized that I implied a doer, that I implied that I'm a doer. Yeah, and actually, mostly we just have to get out of our own way. And the best way to do that is to leave everything as it is, unaltered, unaltered. Or even easier, recognize that it is all already solved. Recognize that things are from your essential nature. Everything already is as it is. Every attempt to alter, modify, correct, put more values, grow and get better is just a dream character working according to the script and it's none of your business. You ask the space-like awareness, embrace it, allow it and rejoice.

In discovering what is the next attempt to control, fix, alter and modify and rejoice and slightly remembering who you are. Wow, sweetheart, good luck with that. And just have that relaxed, playful attitude of curiosity, loving support, embracing the dream character, climb the trees. Absolutely. It just gets its rightful place. Yeah, and the other thing is like this apparent...This apparent separateness and this apparent movement that occurs, there is a definite movement, we can't deny that experiencing of that, is actually, you know, it is a, I just dropped my thought, my brain thought like a sieve. But it's still, it's called the dance of Leela, the apparent dance of life.

And of this doing that and this one happening this and this one happening. That's the dance of Leela, a young woman having fun, you know, being attractive. We're attracted to that. Yeah, well, Dance of Leela, which is an aspect of Shiva anyway, but it is that thing about this glorious dance we all love to be part of and to look at. That is the expression. And there's no accepting of it and no rejecting of it. Yes. Because it takes somebody to accept and reject. It just is. Enjoy the ride. Bob would say that, you know, everything is one in essence, but not in a way it is being expressed.

So one in essence means Shiva. And like Haman was saying, and 10,000 ways that Shiva expresses itself is the dance, is the Shakti, is the energy of movement. Like somehow in that tradition, in Advaita,masculine is pure still consciousness or in shamanic tradition is the same is that father sky in immovable background but the feminine the opposite is the movement is the dances the expression is senses yes sensuality mother earth everything that is moving that's experiencing is feminine including male bodies including their dicks for the fun of it is just the polarity of that explanation and then again in shamanic tradition father sky mother earth not two Shiva, Shakti, not two.

In Chinese tradition, you will have yin-yang, but the polarity will be presented opposite. And you also notice the yin-yang is a circle. It's a circle. Plus, the active element is masculine. The movement is the masculine. Here, masculine is the Shakti. And the passive element is the feminine. That's the, yes, that's the yin and yang. Just really to bring into the attention that those metaphors, those pointers are not the reality. They're not even an attempt to describe that which is beyond description. They're just pointers. They just, and all of them, like Jamie was just saying, yin-yang is one circle. Shiva Shakti is also one, is the static aspect and the dynamic aspect.

It's not two things, it's one. It's like, I like...Because somehow, whatever, this body has been conditioned this way. I like to present it as the field of potentiality and the expression of the field. Just the same way you have the electricity running. Now is stop. Is there electricity there in the court? No, it's not. It's not moving. It's not. You can measure it as zero. Yes, but potentially, is it there? Let's see. Well, obviously. So it is it or it isn't. You can't say. It's neither and it's both. It exists as a potential, but... It doesn't exist as the actuality. So it neither exists nor it doesn't.

And yet when it shows up, it shows up as that incredible diversity of that colorful dream of experiencing. And yet in its essence, nothing ever happened. It doesn't have an actual... You know, there are many animals which are experiencing, apparently, things quite different to the human experience. Different senses, absolutely. Through different senses. You know, they really are subjective, all of those senses. Different colours, sonars. Yeah, it's really magnificent. Every seeming name and form, the experience... Experienced in the dream are all unique, absolutely unique, like snowflakes is a good example. That is the diverse.in the dream you know amazing amazing you're beautiful what a dream it is yes we need to say destiny we just accept everything destiny See who you are in your essential nature, not as the Mickey Mouse character, but as the writer or even further the God that created the writer of a character.

As God, as your essential nature, cognizing emptiness, pure field of knowing, consciousness. You don't even bother accepting or rejecting your destiny because there is no one to accept it or to reject it. You just discover your destiny. You just see what is, oh, I'm curious. What is the destiny of that character? What is the next thought that the character is going to have? What are you going to think in five minutes from now? You don't know. As the consciousness, you discover it. Yeah, like Jamie says, you're watching the movie, see what's the next scene. As the dream character, you will do as scripted. If you are conditioned to go against the current and fight and challenge, you will go against the current and fight and challenge.

If you are conditioned to be placid and sit in the corner,Cry, you will be placid, sit in a corner and cry. You have absolutely no choice. If you are conditioned to learn new skills and challenge your placidity and become a rebel, that is going to happen. And your conditioning is updated moment to moment. So today you are like that. Tomorrow, let me see. Today I may be jumping off the airplane. Tomorrow I may have panic attack. I don't know. Let me discover it. What the dream character is going to do? Hmm, I'm curious. Though it's none of my business and there's nothing I can do.

I'm the space. There's nothing I can do. I can watch it like a movie, like Jemmy says. If you investigate your own experience and ask yourself, why am I sitting here listening to this message? And you go, well, you know, because I happen to... Click on something or somebody loaned me a book and said you should read this and that led to me seeing this. You can see at no point in the chain of sort of seeming causation was there an independent entity there that made this moment happen and you can investigate any occurrences in the seeming script.and realize it was because you know because the phone rang and this person spoke to me and or a thought arose which we don't have any controls over our thoughts that everything is just happening there is no entity there that is is making choices or or um controlling the destiny.

It's just all unfolding. It's just the natural, I call it like the dance of Sheba. It's just the universe is dancing and we're all involved in that dance and we're all bouncing. It's like a mosh pit, you know, where you're all bouncing and we're all reacting off each other. Yeah. Well, you're not, yeah. Whether you're surfing it or whether you're in the car. It's just happening. It's just a movement of energy. And just with a little bit of investigation, you can see that, well, I'm here because some, you know, I ran into a friend and they suggested that you should check this out or whatever.

All just happenings. There was never any point you can insert yourself, go, well, I'm the reason I'm here. It's just, you know, your fairy male may have not run into that friend and you could be sitting at the pub instead, you know, but that's how the destiny, and that's how the destiny unfolds because when you take the independent entity, the separate entity out of the picture, there can only be the unfolding as what's happening because there is no separatefor anyone to get a credit card in there and change or alter anything, you know. It's just an unfolding of what's happening. And then it's the me that comes in after that and takes credit for I did that.

So it's beyond destiny. In other words, it's beyond destiny. So destiny implies, Desi, I understand what you mean. What will happen will happen. What will never happen is never going to happen. But destiny implies that the script is written. It's preordained. It implies a future. No. It's only now. So destiny without the time aspect, in a way, it is just what's happening in the moment that is a confluence of everything that's going on in the entire circle. Whatever it's here, whatever you want to call it. But there is no, in saying the word destiny and what will be, will be, blah, blah, blah, is it's not as if the script is written and the functions of this seeming entity are all mapped out.

It's fresh and new. Every singularity. There's no, it's only one. It's just happening right now. Even the word now is new.It is totally dynamic, totally constantly moving in the dream. What is is the best description. What is, but we are not what we, it is happening in us, what's happening in, you've never experienced anything that's not in consciousness. It's all in. It's like Jamie was saying, we are still. We are constant. We don't move. That is us. We are silent. We don't speak. We are such stuff that dreams are made on. Yes. And our little life is rounded with a sleep. Essence. And like any good entertainment, requires a suspension of disbelief.

And there's this great film.Who killed Roger Rabbit? Oh yeah! Where the, it's a feature length cartoon and in the process of watching the cartoon you forget that these are all, you know, cartoons. There is a critical moment in this cartoon that one of the lead characters is exposed and he's declared to be a toon. He wasn't real. He was just a toon. And that's the subtle thing. We get caught up with the... Appearance of everything and the dance of Shiva andDance of Leela. And we forget that where the the presence awareness or the space-like awareness on which it's played out. And that's the simple, captivation between the non-duality and the slight slip to duality.

And this suspension of disbelief started when we were very young. And like Bob says, you call little Johnny. And then little Johnny believes. That's what he is. It's only a tune. I just wanted to comment about the thing about destiny. It's that often destiny means you accept whatever comes through and you allow it to happen. But in fact, in fact, destiny. Bob, the famous question was put to Bob, you know, you know, you're all non-dual, you're just sitting around not doing anything. And they said, you know, what would happen if you saw a guy beating up a woman across the road? You'd do nothing, would you?

You'd just let it happen, you know, let it.It's, oh, no, Bob said, I'll let you know when it happens. Because the appropriate reaction or the appropriate behaviour occurs in the present moment, you know. So it's not accepting that there's a superseding destiny which you're a victim of and you're a fish in the... School of fish going that way, there is a thing about that there is only now. And then the appropriate thing that seems to be most appropriate at the time becomes very obvious. We all do it. We act in a way which is most appropriate at the time. Sometimes inappropriate. And inappropriate. Yeah, but...

Yes, that's right. Look, Heyman has one mic, and then, so Heyman will have a voice, and then I really hope that we could hear Paula, Loki, Miranda, and Dean. So you go, Heyman. Thank you. I'm saying... That's okay. I'm saying if I surrender myself to destiny, it takes me to most standard and good, which designs for me as a body, as a psychological body, as an emotional body, forever and ever and ever. And all I need to do is to be aligned with what is, which is the destiny operating right here, right now. Destiny is, I would say, it's the fifth element. It's not fire, water, earth, or...

Fire, water, earth or air. It is space. Space, whatever. There's two, air and space. But he's got the metaphor, destiny, instead of space. At this stage, I'm using this metaphor. I am what I am at this stage. Next couple years, everything will change because things are changing. Whatever is a thing.is changing. That's the nature of reality. And I'm very positive that the scientific people, all kinds of people agree with me, as long as they're operating from common sense. Anyone else? Please, please. Yeah. So, Dana, would you like to start? Thank you. Thank you. And I'll put the mic your way. Just as an invitation. It's not a problem.

Well, everyone's covered a few topics tonight. Nice to hear everyone, but like there's, you know, this is the meetings about non-duality. This is all about non-duality and there's, you can't get to non-duality through duality. There's no way. So we talked about the dream character. And, you know, the dream character, like the Mickey Mouse, trying to work out who become the author of the artist, trying to work out how can the character, but it's not only are you not the character, you also are all characters that ever were and ever could be. You are everything in the appearance and none of it at the same time.

So not only are you, you could say you are not the character and that's true.Just look at this in your own sort of way. Like you know that you can't be this particular character, this particular body. You can do a series of investigations and there's a lot of ways to examine that. But then you also, not only are you not this character, you're not any character, but then you're the whole show appearing in awareness. Because you are that space in which everything is appearing in, everything is bubbling up in, and that is what is called life. And in that, everything appears. To try and... We talk about, like now, we've been talking about now a little bit and this moment.

Bob used to say, try and get out of this moment. Try and get out of the now. Like, you can't, it is unfathomable. It is, like you said, there is no beginning, there is no end to now. There is no, I think Jamie said something really good about it, trying to find it, trying to discover it, trying to, it's unassailable, yet you know, like for certain, in your experience, without any doubt that it's always this moment. So when you go to a memory, when everything that's ever happened in this wakefulness is always this moment, and this moment is this appearance, and this appearance is that, and you are that, and you can't get away from that, you can't...

Change that, but you can, the destiny of like, the destinyIt's like an idea. Am I going to move my hand? Am I going to take matters into my own hand? Move my hand to the right or to the left? Who created that thought appeared in this spontaneity of now. And that hand may go to the right and then there may be a claiming that there's a dean that moved it to the right or there may be a claiming that the thought told it to go to the left. No one's doing any of it. There are appearances all appearing in this space as that energy of a thought and then energy of the action perhaps following a thought which seems to if you logically look at it oh well then it's me but it's not it's that's the appearance appearing and the energy is appearing in that specific manner with that specific flavor to make it appear as though we there's free will and choice and volition and that's what makes a dream absolutely fascinating and and and just an absolute joy because The dream itself is designed to make it look like there is a destiny and a free will and an individual and where it's not, where there's one thing happening.

And it's an amazing... Oh, geez, you know, what does one say? Like we're hearing all these pointers and we come together, but there is no one, there's no separation. So there's just this energy in which the showis unfolding and the show is this life and this life is that and this that is appearing as a pointer saying this is all there is is now all there is is this um you can hear it a thousand times and you can you can postulate it but if you're postulating or thinking or analyzing from an individual perspective there's you can't then there's dualism and you can't get to non-duality through duality.

It doesn't happen. It's back to the Mickey Mouse character again, you know, which was a perfect metaphor and explained everything really simply and beautifully. And, you know, and also like another idea of the, something we were talking about today was about perceptions and ideas and imaginations. And like, you know, there's that story of the, I mean, you could use any metaphor for this, but about four blind men touching different parts of the elephant. And one man says it's, you know, the experiencing, the actuality is the hand on the experience of whatever that is. That is the senses in absolute simplicity. The idea that it feels like a wall or it feels like a snake or it feels like a...

You know, a rope. The tail feels like a rope and its abdomen feels like awall of concrete or whatever it is, all the different explanations are like overlays of ideas. But even they are like the appearance in that presence, even they are the energy that becomes convoluted and confused and identified as, oh, that's what I feel. Or that's what I think, or that's what I am. But the actual, the raw experiencing, the raw senses is just what we call, I guess, reality. Don't use the word reality today. This reality is this. Reality is now. Is undeniable and no one is, oh, maybe a couple of people exempt from it, but you can't escape it.

We'll put it next week, I'll sit in the middle there and we'll, no, how can, how can it be, it's like saying, how can you add to the great perfection, take away from the great perfection, which is also similar to what we started the meeting today with. Leave it as it is, unmodified, uncorrected, unaltered. And try to alter it. I can try to modify it, try to correct it as well. I mean, but there's depth to that saying. There's a real saying that... Oh, who's the modifier? Who's the corrector? Who's the alterer? Can there even be that?And you'll see that the great perfection is always actually is as it is.

And it always is unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. But the pointer itself is absolutely brilliant because try to alter the great perfection, try to modify it. I mean, it's not possible for an individual to, it has no will or ability, yet it's part of the appearance, part of the show, part of the game, part of the fun and the dance and the Shiva and the Shakti and everything that was discussed today, which is... Quite entertaining in itself. It was really entertaining watching everyone's expressions and being like being everyone's expressions. I like to not speak here because everyone is me speaking like, oh, this is Dean character. It's not a Dean character.

It's this character. And in this, yeah, in this isness, everyone expresses themselves. And I remember sitting here once upon a time thinking, geez, he said some good shit. Oh, he knows his stuff. She's a little bit like, she's got a few blind spots. She's definitely unclear. Oh, this one's really got great clarity. But now there's so much more joy. Yeah, it was all bullshit. Yeah, it's all just based on the reference point of a me. Everything's judged on a me or analysed from a me. And now it's like, oh, you guys can just talk on forever because this is me.expressing it in every way possible.

And there can't be a fault. And you're all fuckwits too. Exactly. Do you know what I mean? Like you can say whatever you can say, anything. But it is the one show. And what an expression it is, what an infinite array and a curiosity that it's always unexpected. You can't anticipate it. You can't. It's just, wow, it's always whatever's happening and whatever happening is ever fresh. The kaleidoscope of life itself and all the infinite patterns are an absolute delight. So there's nothing anyone needs to worry about because there is no one to worry about. And there's nothing that can be done in that sense. Well, you could say it's also hopeless, but it's not.

It's the divine play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my bit for today. Thanks. Gorgeous. Yeah, Paula and Paula. Yes, no? No, yes, please. Yes, no, yes. I don't really have anything to say. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful talk.I think the thing that probably I've been noticing lately and that was relevant in the talk today for me was, and it's such a, you know, the classic what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it, just noticing it, just noticing the response, like every response. Or reaction that I'm having in my life is just seeing it so obviously that it's a reaction to a thought, not like you're saying, Jamie, like a reaction to the actual reality of the situation.

And, you know, there's like some like really obvious. Examples like the other day we were looking for our cat we couldn't find our cat and we're like anxious oh no he's gone he's lost like blah blah and then he's just under the bed and it's like we had the same song and he's yeah and he's just under the bed like literally and then it's like oh that thought is gone and now we're in a heartbeat you're like your whole state changes and it's all just a reaction to a thought like very literally that there's no no difference in the external reality it's just the thought that's been taken against it um andinteresting like it's easy to see in these more kind of stark contrasts in experience but actually that's the what's happening constantly every day is just this subtle reactions to thought that are kind of creating these low levels of dis-ease and just seeing that as a, I don't know, a fact of daily experience is freeing.

And it's not to say that the reactions aren't happening, but now just seeing that this... This is the play of the mind and the play of identification with the mind creates space from it. And sometimes I have this thought like, oh,you know, I'm always lost in thought or like I'm always, there's always some kind of just like banal thought tracks going on. And like, is there any progress or like, am I, all this kind of stuff. And I think last week or the week before, Kate, you were talking about, you know, the slow dawning that some people go through and some people go through like a very kind of sharp experience.

If I'm honest and I look at my experience and I look back at my experience, I notice that actually these reaction to thought used to be really quite strong and the thought is still there, but it's like over time the responses and the reactions to these thoughts are much more mild. Although it can seem when these things... When it's as a gradual kind of shifting in reaction that nothing's changing. Because thoughts are still there, thoughts are still coming in and out. But for the most part, they're just thoughts, just banal thoughts playing out about nothing, no real... Yeah, 100%. Just doodling. So it can be interesting sometimes to actually look back and see, oh, okay, it does appear to be that the experience is changing, but really I guess it's just...an acknowledgement of the awareness that's always there.

Anyway, that's all. Yeah. Thanks. Wonderful talk. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Again, a reminder which can never be overestimated. And I have a little beautiful little kiss from Bill. And I remember that was, I think, 15 years ago. All those big, big boys, you know, Bill and Gilbert and the guys that I had the same sort of a feeling like Dean was describing. Oh, shit, you know, those guys, they're getting it. They are ahead of me. They understand something that I don't. And it was all about me comparing and trying and trusting, whatever. That was just a story in the head. Over in an instant all that nonsense just stopped appearing and there is no one there there is no one inside them and there is no one inside me to know or not to know just again like dean was saying this is the life bubbling this is the dance there is no doer there is no character inside anyone so the pointer is coming through this one or through this one through this one there is still a belief of being a character in this one or in that one who cares there is no one there it's just life throwing out those um little kisses and now this is a beautiful kiss from bill He says, we truly are infinite.

We truly are infinite.But being infinite doesn't let you eat pizza or drink beer. So we skinny ourselves down into being finite. So we can drink beer, eat pizza, and watch butterflies. And you might ask, why would you do that? Well, that's easy. Being infinite is boring as batshit. Being limited, seeing edges, experiencing time. That's the gift. Enjoy it. And the heart. Thank you, Bill. That's really a kiss. Thanks, Bill. Anyone would like to? Paula, no? Yes? No? Word? No? Just one word. Oh, no, no, it's time. No, no, no, no. It's always time for you. Hola, Joy.This place, this house, this tree, the gum tree, the garden walking in, a new cat, this room, this house is like a womb, a warm, embracing womb.

When I walk in here, it's so full of love. Thank you, cat. It's a sweet cat. And there's thoughts. Thank you. He's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of the time, I just, it doesn't make any sense. Everything that everybody says doesn't really make sense. Any much a lot of sense to me good yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's like um yeah i was you know i was like pooh bear the bear of little brain and i really don't understand a lot And yet I do, you know, like when I write poetry, some essence of what is being said will emerge, come, but it's not from me, you know, so there's some part of me, but there's something, yes, that really knows.

And that there is to share, but it doesn't come from, you know, this. It comes through. Yeah, it comes through.Yeah. And I so appreciate a lot of what other people say. So it's not like, no, actually, no, all comparison, I'm the same. All comparison's gone now. Yeah. Yeah, it has, actually. I just appreciate what comes through other people. Not all the time, of course, no. I don't actually. It's natural attraction and repulsion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. But a lot of the time it's like, yeah, great. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. So, no, it's just beautiful, beautiful. And, yeah, I was, you know, I came to Melbourne, but...

Really to be you know to be hang out with Bob really because I kept on thinking I was like I want to be with Bob in his last days it was a really strong attraction a pull attraction and I thought what do I do next I don't want you know grow up anymore anyway all that but I ended up here and right from the word go it's been incredible hasn't it Kat absolutely been incredible so oh and then I was how was from the last people who'd fall before yes I was actually yes well it wasn't you know yes after many years later many years later What do you mean?I mean, yeah, Bob was claiming that he's going to be out of his way, like, for the last 30 or 40 years.

But that, you know, after Mandela that day? Yes. You know, and we were sitting, you know, like, that night, I think, the next morning. Yeah. Anyway, so it was amazing that I actually got here, got to spend this couple of years around everyone and be here and like based, based in really, based in this. Whatever it is because I don't understand it. And the other thing I was thinking was none of us have got anything to teach each other. Bob used to say that. It's not teaching, is it? It's sort of, no, it's not. It is that unspeakable, unknowable sort of thing that is just here.

It's an energy. And that's what I mean. It's like that's how I feel like I've been basing in that incredible energy. And everyone knows this. Yes. You know? Yes. Everyone knows this. Can't deny that you are. Yeah, no. You know it 100% certainty. And it's so unique with everyone. And one can think that it's just, this is too weird, you know, like, that doesn't matter, you know. You know, it's just, yeah. So that's all I've got to say, I suppose, you know. Yeah, and yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.Thank you, Paula. And that's beautiful. And I do really, I do hope that you will show up again and bring some of that poetry.

Oh, that's a good idea. Yes. Please. I will. Yes. I will. Thank you. I will. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you, everyone. Thank you.