This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
And welcome everyone. As usual, the invitation is open if anyone would like to swap the chair or speak from where you are sitting and drop a couple of pointers our way just to keep the Bob's style, Bob's style, which is the introduction. For anything between 20 minutes and one hour. That was traditionally the way he would do the introduction. And then we opened the discussion. Brainstorm, ask.No takers. Bye. Okay. You're going to... Okay, so we're starting from the obviousness of our own existence, which is 100% certain in 100% of the cases. I had a conversation with someone a few days ago who would say that, well, I don't quite, I can't say, you know, that I'm getting it already or I did slide the demon completely.
And I say, wait, wait, wait, stop here. Because the one who wants to get it is never going to get it. The one that I, that wants to get it, understand it, comprehend it, own it, the presumptions already that there is an eye and that it doesn't have it right now. Those are both wrong assumptions. There is no I and there is nothing to be heard. So I ask him, okay, so, and he says, I don't, I'm not quite as confident in that as you are. I said, okay. How confident are you from 0 to 10 or from 0 to 100%? How confident you are that you are existing right now?
Oh, yeah, 100%. I say, so am I.Where is the difference then? How come, who is, where is the space here in any doubts or any search or any future in which the eye will comprehend it any more than right now if there is already 100% confidence in the fact of your own existence. You will see that the only obstacle in recognizing that this is it, justice and nothing else, is the idea. Is the idea that there is more and he was saying already he actually has gosh i love the the call that we have the calls that i have uh with him because you can see the you can see the light shining force you can see like week after week things get lighter easier more naturally resolving and the insights that are flow flowing to the surface are just showing up that the recognition is solid is solid yeah you know I can't say well okay just rest it rest it but what you can say Well, definitely that I'm not that attracted into dwelling in the thinking and trying to work it all out.
I say, what? Yep, that's it. And everything is easier. Everything is light.Everything moves on much quicker, much more naturally. There's not as much tension. Everything is just... More full of light. I had another conversation another day with someone who said, you know, if there is that idea of luminosity or the radiance kind of suggests that you should expect some sparkles in the surface. And when you look for it, you might actually start finding it. But isn't it a placebo effect? Isn't it something that is just appearing in a visual field? Totally. It doesn't matter. It is an experience. If it wasn't here yesterday, it doesn't matter.
If it wasn't here forever, every time, every time you check and you look, it doesn't matter. It's rubbish. But the certainty of existence, that's something that never diminishes. Even if the field of awareness is completely covered, I'm just going to check if we are audible, if it's completely covered with concepts and trains of thoughts and roller coaster of life, of dramas is stealing the show, the certainty of existence is never not here. If not for that existence, obviously there would be nothing. I see no complaints. So this is really what it all boils down to.down to everyone is already 100% sure that they are and there is an idea that maybe there is some demon to slay and maybe there is some I to do some more work to get more pleasure to get more fulfillment or more luminosity or radiance or I don't know, superiority.
The presumption is also in the spiritual circles that self-realization equals sanctification. So there is an I which will realize that I am one with God and I am a totality. And from now on, Obviously, all the stuff that was judged by society as undesirable or nasty, like burping or farting, is never going to show up again. Or anger or shame or guilt or whatever is never going to show up again. Because now I am equal to God and obviously God can't fart. Or experience anger, God is not omnipotent. There are limitations to what God can experience. Obviously, it can only experience what is written in the advisory books for teenagers, how to behave.
So, yes, it is laughable. God as omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience.experience itself through everything and everyone as it pleases with no limitations there is nothing that he can't do or experience or exhibit and recognition is not that i realize something or someone is that there is a realizing there is a being seeing hearing happening and there is no doer of thereof. Everything that happens, happens the same way that the planet is moving around the sun, the same way as the cells in the body are replacing each other. Every interaction is happening in the same way, be it fight, be it anger, be it competition. Be it resentment, all of those things are happening according to the conditioning of the vehicle.
The bat will fly, the fish won't, unless it's a flying fish. They actually just glide. They just glide, that's right.So people who are conditioned like one of my favorite examples of the bullfighters in Spain, who are conditioned to charge the red blanket, will continually charge the red blanket. So bull does not have sense of self that needs to be transcended. And it still charges a red blanket. So if there is charging in the body and there is a response coming preconditioned to charge the red blanket, at which point that is supposed to change? And why? Why would it? Who is there who desires that change or pursue that change?
And of course, nothing stays the same. So it does change, even in a bull who never assumed to be an individual separate entity. It still changes, although the changes may not be very visible. But everything, every pattern changes, because everything constantly affects everything else, and every situation... Reconditions or adds to the conditioning. Every experience updates a little bit the model that this machinery is projecting out. So the changes is happening, changes are happening. And yes, there is a difference and there is a big change inWhen there is a realization that there is no one looking and there is no one hearing and there is no one thinking, it is just happening.
Some of the changes and some of the patterns drop away immediately. Some of the other patterns may be rewritten a little bit faster. And that applies to self-referencing. When you see there is no self, naturally referencing the self that you already see there is not drops away or eases off it may still show up in a situation when you hear Bob saying I prefer lamp chunks than something else using the eye using the body as a reference point or using the whatever other preferences is natural but there is no belief in in any of those positions there is no identity as such and that's That's a day and night type of a difference.
That's a paradigm shift type of a difference. Whether the whole universe spins around the imagined self-centered me. And the obsessive thinking is all about me. What do they think about me? What do I think about me? How do I position myself in the best possible situation? How do I gain approval from other people? Or even projections and imagination of I, the self.the self and the obsessiveness of that self versus witnessing the unfolding in which there is still reasonable care about the body there is still reasonable care about relationships just like you see in the kingdom of animals who also form alliances in their in their peer groups and compete for power or do or mate or do all those things without obsessive thinking and narration referencing everything to me Those are natural behaviors.
They don't have to reference anything to imagined driver of that vehicle.and we have good morning messages and mario says love you cat sweet thank you and this is really the whole non-dual investigation is the way of putting the or giving a credit where credit is due and putting the miracle of existence in its appropriate right perspective and that can't happen with looking through the mind the thinking mind, the constantly analyzing mind. So what is it? What is that mind? It's the capacity for thinking, capacity for imagining, capacity for comparing, calculating, computing, projecting future, resolving problems. It's a fantastic, wonderful capacity. Capacity for storytelling beautiful capacity it is to be appreciated but it runs when it runs the show when it is somehow assumed by life because there's no one else who could assume it to be a master of the show obviously it it it hurts because now there is no insight into its working and there is unconditional acceptance of everything that it says and as much as the intention behind every action and every piece of narrationof the mind is always love of being which is self-preservation and thriving or chasing pleasure even though it is always that same principle that principle is executed in a way that is extremely extremely suffer suffering causing It will, for example, tell you how it loves and cares for the survival and thriving in a way.
You bloody failure. Why would you say this? Don't you see this is going to get you fired, you idiot? Doesn't sound very loving, does it? And when it is completely, unconditionally accepted as the truth, well, it kind of feels suicidal. I'm a bloody idiot. I'm a loser. Oh, shit, you know, how am I going to live with myself? That's not a nice place to be. So that narrative capacity or that thinking, imagining capacity, which... Really has that one objective love of being and executing that love of being when it is put in a position of a of a master or a leader it causes psychological suffering that is the only cause of psychological suffering but when it is put in a position in its rightful position of a servant of a tool that is serving the survival, that is serving the love of being, then you can see or you can hear the same oldcommentary and it doesn't apply to the me because there isn't one it it doesn't judge or label any entity that should take credit of or feel bad for it because there is no one there it's just it's just a navigational tool expressing concern for the survival of the body and the survival of the body is necessary for the life to experience this magnificent dream called life So seeing the mind as a tool, as a servant, being curious about it, brings endless joy because there is no sentence, no word, no behavior that is not recognized as the expression of that love of being.
And knowing the mind, which Bob always stressed, know the mind. Just give it a little bit of attention. See how it functions. See what triggers it. See what makes it respond in which way. Just... Watch it the way you watch something, you know, just even the way you learn about your new car, how it responds, what puts it out of balance, what makes it malfunction, just get to know it. And the process of knowing it isnot only absolutely mind-blowing, fascinating, a process of knowing it is also freedom from the mind. Because that helps navigating, that helps using the car. And it doesn't necessarily cause any judgment.
It's a curiosity about it. Or doing exercises and seeing how whatever any any form of learning of having the attitude of of a learning or student or learner having attitude of a childlike curiosity openness not only is joyous and very satisfying in itself, but it is also an attitude of something that is not the mind. The mind, its function is to judge and compare and compute. Something that doesn't judge is the space-like awareness. So looking at the mind and its ways, the ways it functions, from that registering capacity or the cognizing capacity, the cognizing emptiness, is not only joy in itself, but is also experiencing of freedom from it.
There is not the mind that watches the mind. Of course, unless there is that ambitious, judgmental aspect of the mind taking a position and imagining I am now the observer.and I am observing whatever arises for me, and then include the observer. Observer is also registered, the same as there is a registration of the temperature in the room without thinking about it. There is registration of the position in which the spine is aligned without thinking about it. There is knowing that does not require thinking or narrating. And that knowing, knowing the mind from that sort of attitude, attitude of openness, letting it reveal itself, show itself.
That also has incredible healing power incredible power to actually resolve emotional wounds when there is no pushing under the carpet there is no explosions it's just that space for every emotion to show itself in its full glory be it a sadness or be it a guilt how does it appear hmm there is a mental activity going on ah there is a contraction oh there is tension interesting So now that emotion, without even labeling it anything, but it's met, it's like a child screaming for attention, is...given the attention is not given the negative attention or shut up i don't want i don't need which may be required at some point i mean you know the emotional regulation is is a sign of of emotional maturity or health and every every child learns that by observing the environment some may be less lucky with role modeling but obviously there are situations in which it is actually reasonable to suppress the emotion and not lash out and beat the child or not cry on on your job interview But when the situation calls for it and is appropriate and there is an opportunity for just learning about that magnificent projector, just getting to know it, just being curious about it.
You'll see how the whole dream come into existence. You will see how similar it is when you are sitting and revisiting the past or imagining the future. How similar it is to any other form of dreaming, any other form of imagining. You will see how any contextualizing of a situation, drawing a bigger picture of a situation, which is a wonderful capacity, very satisfying too.or reviewing different models like physics or psychology they are the same way of dreaming there is the way the mind is dreaming is creating more like overlay of interpretation to that incredibly mysterious unknowable moment of happening of seeing hearing tasting touching smelling only by watching the mind and knowing the mind and also seeing when it flips how it responds, how it reacts.
Is just it brings up such an obviousness of the way the whole manifestation functions and also it brings the obviousness of non-doership You can, seeing how the mind works, you will see how the judgment statements arise, how you're not thinking them, how they arise through the associations or comparisons, subtle computing happening, how that subtle computing is repetitive. How it shows the pattern in thinking, the pattern in thinking that has been preconditioned or learned through imitation. It's an incredible right to know the mind.Watch the mind. See how it functions. You will also see how it always divides in the range of opposites. How everything is evaluated between, you know, black and white and all the shades of gray.
Between good and bad and all the shades of what's in between, how limited it is in its functioning, even though the dreaming is seemingly limitless, but the main guiding principles of that dreaming are always the interrelated pairs of opposites. You'll see how the whole projector is the interface from that singularity of life into that diversity of the dualistic manifestation. And you'll see how it is done without the doer. How it happens spontaneously and naturally.And then, of course, the natural recognition is it all happens within that cognizing emptiness, within that field of registering. And that is what you are 100% certain. That you are. You are that field of cognizing emptiness or the capacity to register in which everything appear.
The mind and its working, the projector and the projected. The seeming seer and the seeming seen, because they always arise simultaneously.There is singular seeing happening. And there is interpretation arising straight away. There is I and there is not I, that I am seeing. There is hearing, singular hearing happening. The capacity of hearing, singular. And within that capacity of hearing, the mind is projecting, I am the one that hears, and the sounds out there are that which is heard. The two things. I am unchanging, sitting here, and the sounds are changing at different speeds. So that's the proof that there is two, because there are different parameters.
But they all arise within that singular field of hearing or capacity of hearing. Capacity of thinking is an incredible, incredible capacity. Within that capacity, thoughts are arising and at the same time are naturally related. thoughts obviously you don't have the same thoughts as i do that's the proof there is two there is i the thinker and i do nothing i just have thoughts the thoughts are changing but i'm here i'm the same i'm not changing but really Is there a thinker? Is there a seer? Unless the mind comes and reports on it. And this is again another beautiful, probably the most well-known and profound way of Bob's invitation to investigate the dualistic nature of the world by checking what exists if I don't think about it.
Is there a past? If I don't think about it? Is there a seer and a scene unless there is a thought, unless I think about it? Is there a thinker and a thought unless I think about it? And just, this is not just a slogan. This is to actually see. This is to actually pause for a moment and notice. Is it?Is it a seer if I don't think about it? Is it a scene if I don't think about it? The seeing doesn't disappear. But does it have those divisions? Does the field has a division? Can I really separate myself? Without the thought? Am I really this body without the thought?
What do I know without the thought? And there is quite a bit of knowing happening without any thinking. There's so many things that is being effortlessly registered without the necessity for the thought. If you look at that cat here next to Dean, I assure you, she's acutely aware of every material object in her vicinity. Otherwise, she wouldn't be able to navigate around it.And she's also chasing for some pleasures. It's an amazing display of cleaning program. Yes. Yes, and without the thought, there is obviously, anyone can actually see, without the thought, the breathing is happening. The seeing is happening. The body doesn't disappear. The hearing capacity is still there.
Nothing is actually missing or lost if the thought is paused. But the idea of being separate is impossible because that's an idea. That is not an experience. Separation cannot be experienced directly. It can only be experienced as the idea, as the imagination. And then I can say, yes, yes, but there is a body and here is another body that is not mine. Well, Really, there is a field of knowing. The body arises in that field of knowing. This and that and every other body. That is the direct experience. Yes, but this one is always there, but this one is not always there. The other bodies come and go.
What does that prove? Does it change the field? Does it touch the field in any way of what bodies appear or don't appear? Yes, but this one is always there. Really? I don't remember this.particular body being here 50 years ago. Or being in the same shape. Apparently not one bone, not one cell of a bone was there seven years ago. So whatever appears in the field, whatever appears on the road when you're driving your car, you change your car, the experience of existence doesn't change. You change your costume. People lost legs in the accident. They don't report being any less as the presence, as the awareness of presence, as the field of knowing.
Having bigger body or lower body, if you gain 30 pounds, does it increase your sense of presence, your sense of existence? When you sleep. When you sleep, yeah. It's so unrelated to the vehicle that is used for experiencing and expressing of it. For the vehicle that can be shaped, that can be changed, that can be tempered with. You can take... ADHD medication and your worldview changes or antidepressants and the worldview changes. Needless to say, get drunk with psychedelics and the worldview changes. Tempering with the projector changes the projection. How disconnected are they? How separated are they? How separated is the mind?from the environment if every thought that ever occurs is related to the environment try to have a thought unrelated to the body or whatever is around it try to conceive of anything that could be unrelated to that one field of knowing.
The separation is an idea. And because it is an idea that has been believed for years and been rehearsed and has been passed on through imitation, learned, and never questioned, of course it's taken for granted. And the sense of independence of physical body or the car or the coat is practical in navigating in the dream because knowing the truth and being free in watching the dream appearing and happening and unfolding is one thing the dream doesn't end when there is a realization that it is the dream so the dream character continually deals with whatever is thrown its way The dream character continuously experienced pains and pleasures and everything in between.
And how wonderful you saw. What's wrong with that? The freedom is the freedom to realize the dream for what it is.It's not a freedom from the dream. It's the freedom to the dream. The dream doesn't need fixing. There is nothing wrong with the dream. There is nothing wrong with the dream character. There's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with anything. There is nothing wrong anymore. Full stop. That was the Nisargadatta's pointers of realizing that the whole dream unfolds as it does without any doer. There is nothing wrong. Even if you are attacked or bullied, even if there is injustice or war or political tension or your husband doesn't love you or whatever it is, there is nothing wrong unless you think it is.
And unless the thinking is believed, there's still nothing wrong. But the experience is there. That there is a doer, that there is a person, and that everything is wrong. So the realization that nothing ever happens, that there is just unfolding of the dream and the wonderful privilege of being that registering, registering space in which the dream unfolds, including the dream character, which is kind of an avatar that is kind of as close as you get to the projector. It is a projector itself. Getting to know that dream character from the position of just being thatregistering space from the position of non-judgment, of the curiosity. That is what all the so-called esoteric scriptures say when they suggest, oh, you got to love yourself.
You've got to be self-loving. You've got to first learn how to love yourself, then love others. And then people are spending decades trying to talk themselves into loving some ideal of what they are. And creating another duality, I that loves and the I that is being loved by the I that loves. There is no one there. But when that space-like awareness is really looking and is really curious and is looking at the petals of a rose or is looking at the night sky is looking at the reflection of itself with that openness it can't help but see the beauty it can't help but love the reflection of itself And if the same space like awareness is looking at the mind, is looking at the dreaming, the vehicle, the projector, in the same manner, with open curiosity, it can't help but see the beauty in the woundedness.
In the dysregulated behaviors, in the triggers that causeanger or outburst of irritability in the symptoms of whatever ADHD or menopause or whatever it is if there is no judgment you see the miracle and you can't help but just be mind blown that's beautiful and if it is beautiful Well, the beauty is recognizing beauty, acknowledging beauty. It's one of the purest form of love. Because who can't not love what is found to be beautiful? It is just another channel of experiencing and expressing love. And seeing the beauty in the way the vehicle is responding the vehicle of pedophile the vehicle of violent homeless schizophrenic is the vehicle that has been created by the circumstances by the environment and at every moment it does its absolute best to experience and express love of being the survival the thriving the craving pleasure or craving whatever absolution which is a form of pleasure tooAnd we're not going to dwell in the difficult philosophical concepts of justifying any actions because there is no actor of any actions.
There is no doer of anything. Just like we don't judge a tsunami wave, we don't judge the earthquakes, which are also a product of their environment. The tectonic movements or the volcanoes erupting, they are a product of the whole environment, just like Stalin or Hitler or whoever else. They are products of environment that nothing can be excluded from that from that hot what do you call it in the chemistry when you're just kind of creating the the alchemical sort of a substance everything is included so no one is guilty no one is to be blamed And it is not to say that in that guiltlessness there won't be any isolation or there won't be any punishments.
Those are also another way of love expressing. Any self-regulating systems and all systems are self-regulating because it's the same life essence behind them. Can be seen from the same way. Instead of judgment,mental mind which has its place in everything as well saying and seeing constantly what is wrong what is wrong with the world what is wrong with me what is wrong with schooling system what is wrong with politics what is wrong with climate what is wrong with everything you can see the self-organizing universe And seeing all of those perspectives simultaneously, being the seeing, seeing the mind arising, seeing the responses, seeing the beauty, all of it.
And the dream doesn't get any better. It goes on until it doesn't. But there is an invitation to see the dream for what it is. And that is really, really easy when you make that basic distinction. What exists when there is no thinking? And what is the product of thinking? And then you will see this present moment, ever fresh present moment that is never not here. The content of the present moment, which is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and thinking. If the attention is here with what is, attention alert there is so much joy and pleasure in just being just taking the breath in and out realizing thevehicle, just being, just being present.
And then there is the thinking, the overlay, discussing, politics, history, future. Nothing wrong. That's beauty too. But that's the overlay. That's the dreaming machine. That is also happening on autopilot. Nobody does that either. But if there is a little bit of relaxed attention, just staying in the background, noticing that, ah, this mind activity of engaging, of the party, of judging someone, of backstabbing someone, or getting angry or getting disappointed, that one is happening in that field of being, in that field of knowing right now. And that way, love of being is expressed right now. Hmm, wow. If there is any degree of freedom of noticing, of registering, of cognizing, of being space-like, emptiness, at any point, that degree of freedom is the degree of self-realization.
And even though there is no degree, there is no one who can self-realize in 5% or 20% because there is no one full stop.But we all can relate to the fact that, you know, when the train of thought takes you down the rabbit hole of guilt, shame, remorse and suicidal depression. There is a different level of vibrance and vitality and appreciation and love of being than when you are in love with this moment as it is. With the dream as it is, with or without particulars of the content, with or without any need to fix it, alter, modify, correct it. Just discovering it. Being in the state of a learner, of a curious, open discoverer, letting it unfold.
If the judgment arises in it, let it unfold. Without engaging, without entertaining it. Entertainment of the thinking happens.But if there is any degree of relaxed attention, witnessing presence, witnessing the entertaining, that's the degree of freedom. And there is no good morning all, there is no more comments from the community. And we were already, yeah, introductions over. So now, yes. I don't have anything to say but to repeat what you said about being in love with the moment. As it is. Being in love with life as it is. Right now. Yeah. Seeing its beauty. How beautiful. Yeah. Without that, you know, tendency for projection of change, wishing for, hoping for in the future.
Which is based on a dead past. Yeah. And will never arrive.And just being in love with what's happening right now. Beautiful. Cats are really putting on a performance today. Pesto trying to climb into everybody's bag. Just being themselves. No, I don't know. As soon as you left to go to the bathroom, he was digging in your bag and he wanted to climb right in.He even wanted his ears played with before. Yeah. And other times he just doesn't turn up near you, does he? But today he's very, very loving and very, you know, yeah, very loving and very, yeah. So there you go. Yeah, no, that's good.
Are you waiting for me to say something? Yes. Oh, okay. Well, okay, I suppose. Bob used to always say, how did you get here? And you'd say on the internet or something, and he goes, no, knowing. And I suppose knowing got you here. And really, you know, as I said, shared earlier, I've had a lot of trouble with my car. And, you know, not a lot of trouble, but, you know, but there was always a knowing that I knew that somewhere around there'd be someone to help me. And I found a mechanic and he's really good and he's been really helpful. And someone said, let go and, you know, I've already spent a lot of money, but it was that trusting.
I always knew there was something in here that always knows. And I guess most of your life, I suppose, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can only speak for, you know.me, whoever, you know, we go along with things, but at the same time, part of us doesn't want to know what, you know, we don't want to be there or, you know, we go along with that, but knowing that really we should be going that way. And... You know since coming here it's that trusting of you know knowing the truth and being in the moment and really you know understanding life and really everything is a reflection of who you are and um really just trusting in the moment and what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it.
So, yeah.I heard a comedian the other day who summed life up in two sentences. And he said, it's a nightmare. A nightmare that lasts for 70 years or so, and then you die.So it's a different... Different interpretation of the dream. Yes. But it doesn't have to be this way. And that's what has been demonstrated by Bob and Sean to see in so many ways. It doesn't have to be this way. You know, even if the nightmare, even if the interpretation of the dream up until now, let's say, up until yesterday was, oh, shit, you know, I'm a victim. This was all nightmare. Everything that happened to me or didn't happen to me was wrong.
I didn't get the villa. I didn't have the Porsche. I didn't have the millionaire husband. I didn't get children. I didn't get this. You know, some minds are conditioned to be so dysregulated in focusing on luck and focusing on ugliness and missing out on the appreciation and beauty. The moment the realization happened, the whole redefinition of the dream is automatic. Like I believed I chose my husband, I chose my career, I chose my friends, I chose my spiritual path, and I was diligent in obeying all the instructions and meditations and sadness and everything. The momentmind opened up it was naturally instantly obvious that I haven't done any of it that there was no I choosing the school or choosing the career or choosing the partner or choosing there was choiceless awareness there was dream unfolding there was no doer of thereof and even the self victimizing you know I still have I still have pretty, not that vivid and not emotionally touching, but still a lot of memories from really dark, shitty childhood, as if it was someone else's childhood.
But there is no denial that this shit took place. But the idea of my life being a nightmare is unthinkable because there is no such thing as my life. There is just life. Life living itself. And what a beautiful twist in the nightmare that could at any point... At any point when the light penetrates that thick veil, thick layer of interpretation, of mind drawing that thick layer of how everything is wrong, how everything happens to me, how everything happens to me for a reason, and there it goes more of the story. Why? How I deserved it because I was bad in the past lives or because I, yes, I'm being punished because I...I had the negative thoughts and I'm a sinner and what a ride.
And sometimes from the life's perspective, building up that thick layer of suffering is a beautiful pre, or we could say foreplay. Really, really, really, really good. Escalation or the peak experience because and this was I think Bob had very similar experience from speaking with people for nearly 50 years and pointing it out that there is a lot of people for who self-realization happens in a one big blast of deep darkness of a suicide
idle depression ending in a one moment and just lightness which is unimaginable and that was his story and that was my story that suddenly I never I never breathed that deeply I don't need to sleep anymore it's like everything suddenly is so much more colorful and bright the whole the whole density of darkness lifts in one blast but if there are people who were looking into it for long enough and the layers of pain were slowly lifted lifted lifted the realization that Things are just, you know, playing up and dropping off happened quicker and quicker.
There is no foreplay of that immense suffering. There is no thousand miles with the stone in your shoe that you later on take on and experience that suddenly you can almost fly. The donning. Or the penetrating of that truth happens the same way it happens in the metaphor of this doll made of salt, dipping into the ocean, slowly dissolving, every dip dissolves it slowly. So there is no peak experience. In the ending of suffering. But there's also no one who cares or gives a shit which way or have preference which way. It doesn't matter.Because there is ultimately nobody who experiences self-realization. There is no self that is realized.
The realization is that there is no self running the show, that the show runs itself. Therefore, the no self is every self, is everything. And that's the beauty of waiting for the peak experience because it happened to someone. Well, really? You could always get a little razor and cover yourself with wounds and put salt into it. Maybe your chances will increase. This is not a recommendation. It's a joke. Or getting into emotional abuse or prison or something, if the prerequisite for the huge peak experience is the dungeon, is the crucifixion, Drop the idea or the dream of a peak experience. It isn't necessary and it doesn't happen to anyone.
It's not going to happen to you. It's not going to happen in the future and there is no you.Just this moment as it is, is beautiful enough and it will never be the same again. It will never happen again. You'll never be at this particular age and the fitness of the body. You'll never be at this particular moment in the dream, even in the broader context. And in that particular moment of a breath and the oxygen moving through, even that's just a thought, but the experiencing of it, there's no need to wait for anything different and anything else happening in any other time than now because any other time than now is imagined.
That's the layer, that's the overlay. The personal story is the overlay. As much as it can be loved and honored and appreciated, it gets so much better when it is loved and honored and appreciated as what it is, a story, and not the truth, not the reality. If there is no bondage of story. The way you watch the movie about someone else and you love every bit of it. The same way you can love the story of this someone else, of this someone else. Love every bit of it. Every wound.without believing it to be reality. Still no comments. Come on. Questions. That's okay. It's nice to hear my vision description for a change.
And I like the way that helped to clarify the distinction between the Big Bang for some and, you know, the not for the others, because it was a new kind of newish description compared to the usual, it just happens slowly, you know, over years, which doesn't say much. Here, this also because it's a slow, it's a tortoise kind of setup. You know, whatever it is, low cortisol, whatever it is. There's also never been the expectation of a big bang either. Like going to the gym does nothing for me. Cortisol, whatever. So, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if that's similar for all the people who have the slow path or if they get enough of a big bang occasionally to be looking for one or if there is generally less expectation of a big bang in those who don't get highs and don't get lows.
Which is nice. It's a nice place. I always recognize it's a very nice place to be.Because people would come along and say, I'm so emotionally like everywhere that I can't even stop to even do any letting go or any of this, you know. Can't even take the initial steps because I'm so emotionally, you know, crazy. So I felt very grateful that I wasn't. Yeah, I reckon, yeah. Yeah, it does actually. I'd imagine it would probably spare you from a lot of psychological suffering. Great, we're happy. I don't care if it's still going slow. I don't care if there's a lot of pattern dropping to do now, even though there's been no sense of me for nine years and my whole life, no sense of...
Free will you know there's just the universe unraveling it's always been like that but um there's a shitload of pattern dropping to happen because there's a lot of just you know reactions and discomforts and they will come up in the like exactly like what's wrong with me phrase it came up last night it was the notions coming up were more about what's going on on the surface that the health is doing this particular thing right now about the headache and whatever and they're not sleeping and um so i wasn't really thinking it was a me person it wasn't thinking is there anything i a me person could do about any of it But there was still that discomfort and that reaction and that, you know, I don't like this, that like, yes, there were some of those kind of like maybe mini me kind of reactions.
Like a bull charging the blanket. Yes, not the major me. There's no belief that there's a...But there's like a mini me like complaint process going on that is located here, very definitely here and I don't want that kind of thing. Yeah, it's a hallucination. Yeah, but it's not a belief in that. Yeah, you know that. It's funny. I think it's a new category that has to be like. Represented more maybe nobody's really got a grip on explaining that one very well and anything I've read or heard so yeah no I love your explanations yeah and the arising of the sense of self or arising of the reference point yes a wonderful yeah because that just doesn't come up here yeah that arising doesn't come up that one that's usually talked about there's never like oh there's a sense of me still and it never shows up in the nine years since I had a look one week you know oh yeah you know about three or four five minute sessions of looking for tony running around and not seeing one and then every time it ever gets mentioned in the room you know thousands of times there's always an automatic looking in here that goes on always kind of has been and there will always be an automatic like respect for everything that arises as a possibility and a checking And there never has been any little Tony running around and any one of those thousands of checkings that have just taken place.
But there is definitely like a sense of, you know, whatever doesn't want this right now to be happening in that moment. And in that moment when that thought's arising, There isn't an awareness of this is just the universal energy behavior doing this.So it's kind of like another spot. There's not a, this is me, but there's not a, this is just the universe and no response, if you know what I mean. No reaction. Yes, there is, you know, even the sense. It's not a little inner onion, but yeah. Even the sense, you know, like. Taking an offense or sense of something really being being hurtful or sense of things really being personal or sense of the you know the mind producing a complaint and that complaint is related to this vehicle almost all of those things arise and fall away in different manner to different people.
But yes, can you ever find someone who owns that, the little person to which it applies, or is it just an arising in the narrative and arising in the emotional field? Yeah, and I get the third one, but not the first two that you just said. Those examples. And this is really, you know, the well-functioning body-mind machine. I can tell you if I step on the pesto's tail or I will yell at the cat, there will be a sense of that being personal because it is. It is addressed to be, it is meant to be. Yeah, I don't think I get that though. It just doesn't feel personal.
Like personal to me seems like, I don't know, it's language. You know, quite often. It's a language.I didn't actually mention language, but I think in that case, personal. It doesn't feel personal in that there's no one doing it to me. Not even the universe, because it's just, you know, universe unraveling is such a deeply seen thing here. Although obviously that's loaded with concepts of how that might happen. It just feels like that's happening right now. Mm-hmm. But it's not kind of personal, but I like that third one you said. It's like the notion arises that relates it to this vehicle. Yes. And there's a like...
It's like an interpretation. This vehicle doesn't want it. And this vehicle isn't recognized. Purely as this vehicle at the moment, in that moment, but it's not recognized as a personal that I think most people mean personal to be either. Somewhere in the middle. Yeah, it is a conundrum with the language because even the sense of things being personal is impersonal. It is just an arising in the field. The sense of something being personal is arising in the field. A moment ago it wasn't there, and in a moment it will not be there. So it's just a wave, and you label that wave in some way.
The label comes up in a way that it's a little more than what an animal would get. But less than what most people get when they mean personal. Yeah. Yeah, who knows? I mean, yeah, who knows? Definitely the narration, the story.that reinforce that sense of things being personal will keep it longer. And Bob was always illustrating it by, you know, like using thought to reinforce emotion. Story doesn't really come up because then immediately if that thought, what's going on here, it's like, oh yeah, that's just universe. So story doesn't go, doesn't actually really get started. But in that moment, there's still something less than story, but it's more than straight chemical reaction.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. But even straight clarity. Yeah. Even a subtle. Story or subtle way in which things are, how long that sense lasts in the body, are preconditioned. Some people are preconditioned to hold on to their wounds for a dear life forever. And some are preconditioned to drop very quickly. Some would be preconditioned. And of course, that is changing constantly. It's updating constantly. They don't want this, don't like this aspect. Yeah, it can go for quite a while here. Yeah, absolutely. And there's no doer in it, as you know. Even though it feels like no doer at all. Yeah. Yeah, it's just going on us.
But it's not the pure clarity because there's obviously that reaction going on, which is why there seems to be just, I don't know, there's no why, but there's a movement here to drop all those patterns and reactions in the universe. It's just been a curiosity for about 20 years, like what would it be like to be free as possible? What would that be like? That sounds interesting.Anyone? Anything? Objections? Oh, yeah. Thanks, Kat. Terrific discussion. The simile that came to mind is like, We follow this investigation and it's like looking for gold. Occasionally you might come across a nugget. But most of the time, probably for most of us, we're panning for gold and we're washing and the gold is coming out of the pan and it's a slow process, but you're accumulating gold.And little by little it all adds up.
Bob says, like the sun is suffused with light and self-shining. That the enlightenment comes gradually. And could also come in a burst. I used to always say split the word up to enlighten because you're already light. You're already light itself. So I think it's just a... Knowing who you're not that happens. And then you come out as pure gold because you are gold. You know, you already are gold. And I've had this discussion recently with a friend about enlightenment and, you know, being close to people who know. I go, you already know. Do you know you are? Yes. Well, is that the only thing you know for sure?
Yes. Well, the rest of it's a story, really. But, you know, it's as...was said before, it's interesting to watch the play of consciousness roll out, you know, and watch life itself shining the light of you know, energy on those patterns and how, you know, you never did anything or there is no you to do anything. So, you know, what happens is, you know, you go, oh, there it is, there it is, there it is. And, you know, just all of a sudden, no more questions, no more. No more sort of thinking you have to get something, no more, you know. It's just a watching, you know, it's just a watching and responding to what is.
That's how I see it. You know, and anything that's concept is from the past, just a memory, including the memory of me. And anything that's anticipated and imagined is also a memory of me. So it's just watching how consciousness plays out. And watching how what comes up is fascinating, really. And it's, you know, it's all what is. It's all life itself.unfolding. You never had any doership, you never had any choice. There is no you to have a choice. You're just life itself, really. That's all you are. And it's interesting what comes up. It really is interesting, yeah. Yeah, and being, knowing, loving to be. And then the Nama Rupana just plays out, the name and form just plays out.
That's it.Jesus. Hi. I don't really have... What should I talk about? The non-duality is a topic, isn't it, for today? Is that today's topic? Thank you. So I guess you started the meeting with quite simply... Plenty.the fact that you are, like in that conversation, having the certainty of your being. And that was undisputed. And like, every meeting Bob started was with, start with the fact that you are that, or we don't teach you anything, we don't tell you anything, or, or, be certain that you are and that you are-ness is this, is the aliveness, is the very fact of existence itself. It's like, it's so, it's undeniable to everyone and everything here.
It's the basis of what we're sitting, what the whole point of this whole meeting is, the whole point of all the teachings, all the It's really ridiculous because imagine like thousands of years of teachings and scriptures and gurus and pointers and methodologies and groups and religions and ways and poetry and love stories and magnificent expressions to point to the absolute simplicity of this. Absolute existence. And what is this existence? It's the aliveness, it's the nowness, it's the fact that this is, that you are this, this is self-evident, it's so obvious and undeniable that It's missed. How the hell can you miss it?How can it be missed?
Because it's the basis, it's the substratum, it's the background, it's the foreground. It's everything and everything exists within this, as this. So starting with the fact that you are that, that implies that everything in this appearance is that. And it's in this appearance that you, but you can't be the chair or you can't be the body or you can't be anything specific because it's the existence, it's the whole show that appears. So what are you in that show? So therefore, You can't find, there's a, then I'll say, well, I'm the little character that gives thoughts in the back of my head. But that's an appearance within that same show.
And the show itself goes on whether there's a character, whether there's no character, whether there's a seeming self or a big self or a diminishing self or... And it's just, it's quite incredible. The other part, there was a few things spoken today about watching the mind and see how it functions, how it operates. And Kat really went into the depths of watching it. It's an amazing...show watching. And it's really interesting because to watch, you can't watch as the mind watching the mind. You can, but it's just a thought. So you can really only watch from a level outside, behind, away from, or watching it within something else.
You can't watch the mind. So all the idea of a me is, all a mind is, is a thought. And so which thought would you be? They're all just appearances. And if you're the thought, I am watching the mind, that's the thought. So the watcher appears in the cognising emptiness, as it's described, and the cognising emptiness is this, is the same aliveness, nowness, sense of being, undisputed fact of this life essence. So there can't be watching. There's no watcher as such. It's life itself watching itself as thoughts and patterns. And everything is a thought. Sorry, everything is a pattern. And what is the pattern? And you mentioned like enlightenment, like the pattern exists.
It seems like it exists. As energy, as light itself, vibrating in chairness, bodiness, thought,Like whatever that thought is, is just a pattern of energy. And everything seems to be appearing. So then the word enlightenment, there is no attaining enlightenment. The fact of your being is the enlightenment itself because it's illuminated this being. And this being includes the body, other bodies, a world, a universe. And every thought that could ever be conceived or understood about it is included in it. And yet. It's none of it because they're empty like light refractions. They're just vibrating patterns of energy. And how does... How does one come to realize this?
There's nothing, there's no one to realize it. So like you're saying before, just looking for a self is crazy, but there is a process apparently that seems to go on and finding a self that is no self defined in the obviousness of the fact of being. And so the whole show, everything starts as a complicated thing and then builds into all these stories of the ways in which we can find what already is self-evident, self-obvious. All the methodologies, practices, techniques, whatever, alleventually are made of the same stuff. So everyone is made of the same stuff. I am made of the same as you. And it's incredible, like this oneness, this one essence.
Isn't it amazing that if there's no separation, then... There can't be a Dean who's a good guy or the bad guy or the smart guy. Because everyone's included in that. If you want to call the identity, the identity is the one essence as everything and nothing. So there is no, find the reference point in that. There can't be a single point in which it starts. And that's why it's boundless. because there is no point in which it begins and there is no limit where it ends. And it's so, it's so, um, It's so fascinating and so fascinating the way it all works and this interrelated oppositeness.
If there is a thought that appears that this is good, it immediately means that there is a bad. Like it's implied, it's embedded in the same thing and the same applies with everything. So which perspective can be true? Which perspective can be correct? Which perspective can be right or wrong? There is no right or wrong in that sense. And if there's no right or wrong, if there's no perspective that is true, there is no... Oh, but the real crux of this is there's no one doing any of it. So not only is it, it's like everywhere you turn, it's the same thing. There is nothing, there is emptiness.
You cannot find a solution, an answer, any kind of position, a resting place, some sort of... Place ofcenter or point, a reference where in which it begins and originates or creates from because it's just that. It's just, there is no beginning and end to that. So time distorts and there is no time as well. Because the immediacy, all of this is described in the immediacy. And I guess I'm just speaking to this thing here. And I really don't know what I'm saying, just describing the obviousness of the situation and the essence of why we meet here. In this non-dual meetings and I guess, you know, there seems to be like a process or people come here and there's a sense of, understanding that but there is this isn't an understanding all understanding appears in the sense of being itself it appears in that emptiness is is there's no understanding there's no final understanding there is no ultimate understanding and there is no one that knows anything more than anyone else that can teach you or show you because It's the obviousness of existence itself, life itself, the beingness itself, the sense of presence itself that is undeniable andand ideas of trying to resolve it in any kind of thinking, trying to believe in any kind of thinking to be true or real or correct or superior or inferior or becoming is vibrating patterns appearing in that one essence, in that, in that, and in that sense of being, which is the shining force, is the main show.
It's the whole bloody thing. And I guess this is so simple in a way, isn't it? Like it's, we come here to, you know, to realize the very, very basic, the most basic thing the most it's so close it's beyond close because it's not close it's not far it's not above or below or in or out or or light or dark it's just the sense of aliveness beingness and it's it's in a sense it's also palpably real, palpably and also unreal because it's empty. There is nothing that you can really grasp. There's nothing that can be held on to. Nothing can be actually believed in.
No belief is true. Absolutely no belief. There is not one belief that can be true. And just that in itself, isn't it so obvious that the only thing that you can rely on, the only thing that is there that is absolutely a truth, if you will,want to call is the sense of being is is your undeniable sense of the aliveness livingness that this luminosity that's making this show appear. And I guess that's what it's about in one way. That's the expression from here and thanks for coming. That's beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. And actually, yeah, there's a couple of really good points you touched upon.
I loved when you defined that whole being as in itself being already a light, being luminous. And Jane was also talking about pure gold and just discarding what is not it. And I did have, yes, I did, I think, mention before that I had, sometimes people have questions, so this is something that I can't say is my experience, you know, the radiance or luminosity or the lightness of it, the delightfulness of existence or just that, you know, the way of calling it enlightenment or calling it cognizing capacity or cognizing emptiness, it does in a way show that luminosity, that radiance. But again, this is not the radiance, the knowing that comes from the computing, from calculating.from comparing from the head staff and I had another conversation yesterday I was lovely said I'm not throwing names but was lovely said that especially people with really strong mind really headstrong they would have a really really big trouble with the whole investigation grasping because the attachment and the appreciation from that biocomputer is so strong that even an idea of distrusting it or putting it aside is unthinkable it's just nah And he said, whatever is false will burn away in the fire of truth.
So just exposure to that fire of truth, which doesn't burn in the mind. It burns in your heart, the knowing of existence, the lightness, the beingness, the luminosity of existence itself. The undeniable fact of being vibrant, of being alive, is not in the mind. It is the heart knowing, it's the gut knowing, it's not the intellectual, it's not based in the language. The little baby when it's born, there is obviously a presence of consciousness, of that luminosity, of aliveness, even though there is no language, even though there is no language.no concept of being a self or being a body or being anything at all. But that self-evident radiance is there.
It's not a radiance which is to be objectified and found as something desirable and achieved or reproduced or faked it, faked it till I made it or whatever. It's the radiance that is already present. It's a radiance that not only cannot, doesn't have to be discovered because it's already shining in its full light. Is no one is less certain than 100% of existence. And that is really it. What have you done? I was playing. And we have another couple of words of love and gratitude from Catherine and James. Thank you for hanging out with us. And anyone who is watching us online, please contribute. It is more flowy when people share.
And anyone who didn't say anything and would like to, and we're not going to put the camera even if you want to speak. Would you? Not yet. Okay. Oh, hey, man. Wonderful.Thank you for everyone, everything. I found... The frequency. To tune in. Frequency of ordinary.That's the words of wisdom, ordinary. People look for super extraordinary, for very pleasurable, enlightening, ecstatic, blissful. There's nothing wrong with looking for bliss and ecstasy. That's the nature of the mind to always chase pleasure and avoid pain. But tuning into the ordinary. This is an ordinary awareness. It is the everyday, everyday common variety, garden variety, Bob would call it, garden variety capacity of knowing that everyone already has fully developed.
Ordinary awareness and it is happening only presently i haven't fully developed yet yes you might in the process you might believe you haven't developed uh you are there but it is there it is there the capacity for knowing of existence You know that you exist. And that is the capacity. In opposition to every other knowing that is self-evident presently. You can't know that you exist tomorrow. It will have to be a present knowing. You can't know that you exist intellectually.It is a present, non-conceptual, ever-fresh awareness. And the great scriptures or the ancient truth pointers and wisdom says, it is just this and nothing else. Nothing else is true.
Nothing else is real. Only the ever fresh presence awareness just this and nothing else everything else the namarupa the name and form the shape the changing moods the changing knowledge the knowledge that i will have knowledge that the dream character has lost or let go of all of that is changing, is not the reality, is not ever fresh, is what is a content, is the phenomena, is what comes and goes, is to be here for the little kiss that we can blow it, to be appreciated, to be acknowledged. But it is not the truth. It is not the reality. Because reality is eternal. It is that never changes.
It is that which is presently always here whenever you look. The reality of the fact that you can't find the self. Yesterday, tomorrow, in a million years. Every time you look there is no self. But what is there? The presence, the awareness of presence, the 100% certainty of existence. It is there. Nothing needs to be done for it to be there. It doesn't need acknowledgement, even without the acknowledgement.It is there, shining of its own light, luminous with its own radiance, mysterious because it is ungraspable. It can't be objectified, but it can't be denied. And I had another conversation when the man I was speaking with, he was saying that, you know, a few pointers that he really, really grasped and they really penetrated and they really serve on a daily basis in a daily life constantly.
They just really... Seen true but there are other pointers that don't and we had the same situation in our zoom groups there would be people who say that you know I can't say this is my experience I can't say this one but you know every pointer shows the direction no pointer is true no pointer is the truth there is no reality in anything that can be spoken there is no reality in the language pointer is only like a finger showing the moon is a general direction And if you've seen through or if one pointer resonates, then you know the general direction. And the general direction is all that ever is.
General direction is no within, no without. General direction. Are you 100% certain that you are? Yes.Okay, one pointer is obvious, clear and obvious for everyone. Any other pointer clear and obvious? What's wrong with right now if I don't think? Yep. Okay, so that's also general direction to the fact that there is non-conceptual awareness. Even without the thought, there is non-conceptual awareness. That's a general direction. General because it's not very specific. Because as Dean was saying, you know, you can't put the point, you can't write the circumference. It's nothing that you can, there is no location to that luminosity of existence, the lightness of existence or that gold of pure being.
And at the same time, that is undeniable. It is undeniably there. But the point is, you don't need any more than that. You don't need 5, 10, 20, 100 ways of showing that general direction. Every pointer points to the same general direction of the non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness, a pure, uncontrived singularity, or cognizing emptiness, or intelligence energy, or Sat-Chit-Ananda. Every pointer shows to the same one because there is only one, there is not even one. So the general direction for that which is beyond existence and non-existence.even objectifying it as one, as oneness or unified field of one. Or, you know, what I like to use is the field of infinite possibilities, which is neither zero nor one nor infinity.
Nothing can be really said about it. Pointing to that every single pointer the pointer which bob uses you are not the body the point which he says oh you say my mind in the language obviously it points out that you're not it but there is a tool or possession of something and what is it the pointers that breaks everything into one energy vibrating into different waves and patterns and forms and shapes all of those pointers are showing the same general direction there is no need to know and resonate with more than one pointer and sticking with that one pointer i know that i am That is it.
It is already clear. Everything else is rubbish. Just this, nothing else. Discard the rubbish, as Jane was saying. Know what or who you are not. Just question and discard the rubbish. And even the one who discards the rubbish, it feels like there has to be someone who does the work. No. That the same way as that has to be someone who is breathing, right? No. There's someone who is raining. No.if there is a resonation with the invite to discover or to investigate, then investigate-ing happens. Even if part of that process of investigate-ing contains the imaginary self taking credit for it to start with. In the process, as the young man told me yesterday, oopsie, I wrote it down because I loved it.
Whatever is false will burn away in the fire of truth. So when that investigation, invited through the pointer or resonation, takes place, even though there may be the imagined self taking credit for it, it will burn away in the fire of truth. And at the end of the investigation, it's clear and obvious that even though there was a seeming self doing it, there really wasn't. It was just a happening, unfolding, just the same way as heart beating. So, investigate. Who? Who cares? If there is a resonation, it will happen. If there isn't, there is no problem with that either. Thank you, Dean. And thank you, everyone.
Thank you. Thank you.