This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
And we can...Okay, so welcome. We were actually hoping for Jane to come and give us a little introduction. We haven't seen her for a few months, but she's usually late, so let's hope she'll come late as usually and then she'll continue. If not, well, I'll be entertaining you for another whatever 10 minutes. If she doesn't show up, I'll invite someone else to entertain. Because what we are entertaining is really just a basic, very basic reminder that what you are seeking for you already are. You already know, understand fully, not with your mind, but with all your heart. The truth the final truth of the message that you are mahavekya that you are who doesn't know that they are everybody knows that they are what you are is another story but we don't go to the story that's the point is to differentiate or distinguish between the experiential truth and the story.
That you are is experiential truth. What you are is a story. And you can have the story of being a limited person, or being a dreamer, or being God, or absolute, or miserable, poor, unlovable me. It is still the story, but that story couldn't exist if not forfor the fact that you are, that you are the final realization, that already here, already present, already fully shining in the plain light. It is the light of your being. So you are, if there is a story of this is not good enough that I am, I need to find out what I am or who I am. That's just a thought.
The thought that causes the whole psychological suffering because that thought contains the concept I. I need to find out. I need to get more. I need to realize or understand. And when you say I, what is that I or who is that I? Because what we're talking about, there is just the realization, experiential realization that you are, is the end of stories, the end of all stories. It doesn't need the story. But when the story shows up, when the thought shows up, it seemingly clouds that realization because the habit of attending to the thought has been there forever. Thoughts are so entertaining. They are so...
Pleasurable they are so dramatic or so creating highs and lows and all the colors of the dreams so the attention habitually goes to the storyI think someone's at the door. Let's hope it's Jane. So you are always only just one thought away from the realization that has never not been here. There she is. Would you like to grab that seat and give us a little bit of a burst? Come here. Sorry on light, everybody. Good to see you. Good to see you, too. Oh, that's good. Yeah. There you go. Thank you, darling. Just getting my breath.So as I was getting ready today, a lot of thoughts were coming up.
And so I just thought I'll say whatever comes up. And I think nearly everybody in the room today, except maybe a couple, have been into non-duality for some time. Speaking from here was 1988 when Bob gave me a copy of I Am That and I was attracted long before that to what Bob was saying at meetings, at AA meetings, having both of us having been AA members, he used to speak at meetings. A lot of people were attracted to what he said and I was one of them. At that time my father had died, my sister had died. I'd been doing a meditation course with Guru Maharaja, learning all these techniques of meditation, etc.
And I guess the pathwas getting closer to understanding who I wasn't via various avenues. Anyway, every time Bob spoke at a meeting, I just was attracted. He had something I wanted. And having lived my life in total self-centeredness, from a young child, you know, since I had the ability to differentiate me and you. You know, I had spiralled into addiction, I was just totally self-absorbed, self-conscious. And then Bob gave me I Am That and basically spoke to me thousands and thousands of times on the phone whenever I'd have a question. And he basically said, you know, you're in bondage to a phantom. There is no self.
And what I'm on about here is non-duality, Advaita, one without a second. I had no idea what he was talking about. But I made it my job, if you like, to find outwhat it was he was talking about. And of course, you know, having been living as a separate individual entity, believing I had volition, believing I had choice, believing that, you know, I was a poor girl having a rough trot, you know, and it was everybody else in the world that was the problem. All of a sudden I realised, you know, there wasn't everybody else in the world either. There was not only not a me.
Which was only an image I have about myself that lived in the memory. But there was no other either. You know, and every Monday morning we would come and read Krishnamurti's chapter on awareness and all conflict arises between me and the other. person, place or thing. And everybody that comes to these non-dual groups has a favourite pointer and that is my favourite pointer. You know, everybody has a favourite pointer and that's mine because it works. Whenever I'm in conflict, I say, who's it happening to? It's got to be me. Where is that me? Can I find that me anywhere? Does that me live in the memory?And it seems like it does.
Yeah, and then there's the person, place or thing that I'm in conflict with or that is creating conflict because there's a fixed idea about that alleged person, place or thing that's creating conflict. And so using that pointer and also the very best one in my opinion that Bob ever had was what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it. That usually diffuses any conflict and brings me back to that presence that I am. That I am, that I am, that's talking to you now. So after 40 years, I don't have any questions anymore. And I've been a reluctant pointer, if you like, because, you know, old habits die hard.
There's a lot of old habits that block that spiel, if you like, which I know don't belong to anyone. So I gathered up all my courage today and I thought I'm going to do it. And, you know, I think... I find myself talking to people on the phone.doing one-to-ones and I think, you know, what am I going to say to this person, you know? And it just comes pouring out. And I remember, you know, when Bob was very ill and Kat had invited me to come one day and I said, oh, when you're gone, Bob, we're all going to be speaking your words. And he said, no, no, you're going to be speaking everyone's words.
You know, they're not mine. They're not yours. They're everyone's, you know. And, yeah, so I've just been very lucky because now living, living, or I'm being lived, I'm just life itself, pure intelligence energy, being lived. And I notice I am grateful to that presence, awareness, so much, so much in a day. You know, I think I must do this or that and then that this or that appears in front of me. Or I must, you know, figure out what to do with this and then the solution comes. And every time that happens, I'm grateful. And I'm doing what Bob pointed out was a very useful thing to do.
Which is be warm towards it. Give it a nudge and a wink, you know. Thank it, you know.And I find myself doing that very often through the day, you know. And, you know, all the things of life keep happening. You know, the majority of the people in the world are in an illusory self-centre operating and striving and finding it very difficult. And, you know, I'm not saying that there's not times when I think, oh, God, what are you giving me now, you know? But I just realised there's no me and that life's just living me, alleged me, and that I just do what's in front of me.
And if I feel stuck in any way, I just hear Bob's voice resonating, you know, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it. You know, if you're in the past, you're wrong. If you're in the future, you're anticipating and imagining. You know, and that's creating dis-ease or anxiety. If you're in the past, you're dredging up, you know, resentments and from an alleged me that doesn't exist. So why dissipate your energy? Just be with what is right now and watch the resistance. Watch that resistance that comes up to what is.and go, who's it happening to? So I think that's about all I've got.
Anybody else got any questions? Yeah. Can you say some more about this? Well, you know, we've been conditioned all our lives to believe we're separate. And we've been, you know, living in an erroneous self-centre. And so old habits die hard. And so it's usually to do with a protecting of the me of some sort or a fear or a resentment or self-pity or whatever that's projecting. And then you're... you're projecting that into the future somehow in your mind, in the mind, it's not your mind. And that's causing resistance. So when you have a fixed idea about any person, place or thing, just have a look at that.
Because that's what creates the resistance. I think of resistance as like a wish that things weren't the way they are. Exactly, yeah. It's dissatisfaction or, you know, a wishing for change rather than being...accepting what is right now in the moment. I'll just give it back to Kat. You can get the cut seat. Oh, lovely. I love that. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was beautiful. And I don't know. Okay, cool. Yes, so that was worth waiting for. Thank you. No, no, it was perfect. I was just starting on the same note, really. And you just kind of tuned into the same. You know, we were kind of in a place where the final realization is that you are.
And you are only one thought away. From that final realization and you are not that one thought away that one thought is a seeming veil the thought i need to get it i need to resolve it i need to get something more understand break free did you want to ask question no okay And that I is the very core of the resistance. That I is the erroneous belief, is the wrong concept that is seemingly veiling the realization. And that I, that idea of I, of separate self, couldn't be here if not for the fact that you are, if not for the Mahavakya, the fact that you are.that you are here now as the whole limitless birthless timeless conceptless free space like awareness in that space like awareness in that field spacious timeless birthless nothing can be said about it without the concept but no one can deny it that fact of existence In that that comes into eternity, Course in Miracles says, sneak in the tiny mad idea of separation from which the Son of God remembered not to laugh.
In that space-like awareness that comes a mad idea. I am separate. I am the body. I am the mind. I am something less than the whole field of knowing. I can't experience myself as anything less unless there is a belief. The direct experience is that I am. And direct experience doesn't tell you that you have the face and the leg and the liver and the brain. Direct experience knows nothing about it. It is an interpretation. It is the narrative pattern. It is the program which navigates, you know, as life expresses through that particular pattern. Part of that expression.is having a running ongoing commentary of what is happening.
This is the cat, this is another cat, those are people, those are not me, this is I, this is not I. That commentary is inbuilt in that vehicle of expression. But to realize that this is just a mechanical pattern, it is a byproduct of infinite, pure field of potentiality expressing as completely finite mechanical pattern. The byproduct is something like a running commentary which contains the concept of I. And seeing how that concept of I comes into the picture and becomes real by the act of energy going into it and believing it. And now I believe I'm separate. I believe I'm limited. And I can prove it to myself.
You see, when I punch this one, it hurts. But when I punch this one, it doesn't. Well, it does. It hurts here. But really, it always hurts here. It is always here. Every experience, every perception, every sensation is happening here. It's happening presently here. There is nothing, even the imagination and anticipation of which Jane was speaking, which is the core of suffering, when believed, it still happens here. So in that presence,happening there is the base the consciousness which is prerequisite for all the happening and there is a content there is a ever-changing content and that content is not reality as when Jane was saying about what Bob was calling it that Vita Vedanta or whatever he would also relate to the description that comes from his tradition which is Nisargadatta's tradition Reality, Sat Chit Ananda, reality, experienceable right now.
Everyone is already the Sat Chit Ananda. The being, everyone is being. Awareness of being, everyone is conscious that they are. And everyone prefers to be, obviously. Nobody is having a knife on their wrist. So the Sat Chit Ananda is the reality. That's it. There is nothing more to it, nothing less to it. Awareness of presence and stillness. That's it. Now the illusion, the dream or the maya is the namarupa, the name and form. All the forms that you see around, the form of your own body, the form of other bodies, the form of thought, of feeling, of sensation, of perception. All those forms are namarupa, maya, illusion, dream.
Thank you. So if you stay with the reality, and Nisargadatta would say, stay with the I am, of course, the language will fail us here because there's no I to stay with the I am. Just like that.There is no I who wants to realize or understand or who wants to define oneself that I am this but not that. There isn't. All the expression is maya, is nama, rupa. Every word, every urge, urge to realize, urge to understand, urge to seek. Is the nama rupa, is the form appearing in consciousness. And you can see how that form appearing moves through the field. It shows up and it dissipates.
Whether it is an urge for hot chocolate or whether it is an urge for final realization, it's just an urge. But it is translated as the idea that I want this. I obviously being less than totality if it wants anything and this being separate from the I. So this idea of separation is exactly that, an idea coming only in the language. Without the language, what's wrong with right now if we don't think about it? Without the thought, there is just the awareness of presence. And thoughts appear on it straight away and disappear. And appear again and disappear. What a dream! If you stay relaxed, at least some of the attention, preferably all of the attention, just completely relaxed, embracing the whole.all field being realizing itself of being the whole field and the dream appears in it and the dream character appears in it and the dream character having a stories and dramas and situations naturally pleasant and painful happy and sad dark and night cold and hot Because there is no way, and this is again, this is that primordial dream of that interpretive, that imagined, illusory, separate self that always wants only endless pleasure and no pain.
And the enlightenment being sold as immense ecstasy lasting forever in which there is no thought no judgment no night no winter no sensation of any discomfort what a dream it is but what an impossible dream it is even if that was to be glimpsed for less than eternity, you could see that it could only be glimpsed because of the time when it wasn't. Everything in the whole manifested world in the dream can only be known from its opposite. If you have a whiteboard and a white marker, you'll see nothing. You need the contrast. So the whole duality, the whole expression of that one essence, of that one essence,unified field of infinite possibilities.
All the expression is contrast, is dualistic. The contrast between pain and pleasure, happiness, joy, sadness, all of it, all the diversity of incredible patterns, shapes and forms, colorful mandalas and fractals of density and immensity and intensity and the more the attention goes to anything you go to the droplet of water and the universe is there you go into the watching the galaxies or watching the the fashionable things we were joking with Dean today the new subculture of everyone projecting everyone around to be a narcissist Wow. All those incredible ideas are just the same one life filtered through some or the other patterns. And now they appear as some or the other colors.
But when you see the dream for what it is, that's all that is needed to be done. And that was one of Bob's favorite quotes from Nisargadatta. Dream is not a dream. Not your problem, Nisargadatta says. Your problem is that you identify as someone who likes one part and not the other. And only wants the pleasure and not pain. I am the person now, less than totality. I only want this and not that. Well, that is the only problem. Recognize dream for what it is. Love all of it or none of it or be neutral towards it. You know, have no position, take no stance.
Recognize dream for what it is and the rest is going to be done for you by the same life essence that brought you into existence that is always doing everything again like jane was pointing it is you are being lived that life essence that brought you into existence you as the pattern Because you are the life essence that brought every pattern into the existence, but you don't have to grasp it. There is nothing to understand about that. The only thing that is to be understood really in the whole non-dual teachings, that is one thing that is really, really worthy of understanding, thoroughly investigating, contemplating until it really sinks in.
The answer is not in the mind. That's the only thing anyone can ever understand. Stop trying to grasp it with concepts. Stop trying to hold on to the insights. Oh, I'm getting it, I'm getting it. Shit, it's over.I'm almost there. I almost understand it now. I'm going to just keep it, write it down, do something about it. Nope. It can't be grasped. If you understand the nature of that energy, you see that even the most profound insight is an experience, is the vibration of energy showing itself in some beautiful form, is the dancing Maya, is the energy moving. Even the most profound insight that you may love and cherish or the pointer, all of it is just the appearance.
It cannot be grasped by the concept, but again, deny it. Anyone unaware, unconscious, and now see the resistance coming up. Yes, yes, but. So what? Where is my Ananda? Where is the pleasure? Where is the superiority in which I get it and you don't? Where is the satisfaction of, you know, having the lifelong, decades-long spiritual search? And now I want a crown of the final reward. I got it. And where is the confirmation? Who is going to confirm me that I've got it? Can you see the joke? Any idea of grasping it and having itpinned down, how could the totality be objectified into something that the illusory eye can possess and add to itself?
And now I have it and someone else doesn't. It is the substratum of all there is, including the grandiosity delusion that someone is enlightened, I'm enlightened, including that dream of fantasy about anything being right or wrong. And I am the one to judge it. I'm the one to say what is right, what is correct, what is not. Because I know. All of that is just the appearance on the screen. It's just a dream. But if there is again enough relaxation, and that's the pointers that Bob was hammering down forever and ever. Leave it unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. What is that which leaves everything unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected?
Your essential nature always leaves things unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. There is nothing that needs to be fixed. altered, corrected, grasped, understood, had nothing to be had by no one, only space. Recognize that that aspect, that inherent knowing, thefield of consciousness that you are, that space-like awareness, it is already leaving everything unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. There is no you who can stop grasping. The one that grasps is not your essential self. The one that tries to fix and possess and understand is not who you are. All of that grasping, that urges are just a movement within that relaxed field of space-like awareness that you are. That you already are and you know you know that you are within that desires play out cravings fantasies attraction and repulsion jane often reminds that the natural attraction you know the the bee attracted to the flower not the doer it's just a natural attraction repelled from the whatever natural repulsion none of it is any of anyone's doing that relax space like awareness effortlessly here never not here that's your essential nature and it already unconditionally allows Even the cravings, even the urges, even the fantasy of becoming, that if I will investigate and read and study, then in a future time I'll become.That fantasy is unconditionally allowed in that field of pure presence that you are, in the consciousness that you are.
If there was no consciousness, the fantasy of becoming couldn't exist. Stop it. And also you can't get what you already are. Absolutely. Yeah, that's what keeps coming up here is, you know, you can't get what you already are. So it's like putting the cart before the horse, you know. You can't put the cart before the horse. No. You know, it's like you can't get what you already are. Yeah, absolutely. You can't get away from it. There's no chooser. Yeah. There's no choice maker. No, there isn't. No, that was a hard one for me. Yeah. I'm trying to get that, but there is no choice maker.
That was one of the hardest things. I just could not grasp that for years, you know, because choices kept getting made and I was so addicted to the me, I thought it was me making them, you know. And then all of a sudden one day I realised, hey, choices are made and there's no me. You know? And that was a real sticking point for me in early days. And I think it is for a lot of people. They get stuck on that one.So it goes back to the habit of me. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I am the doer. That's it. That's the not. And time is the other thing, you know, which is connected with that thing.
Absolutely. You can't have me without time. No, no, that's right. You don't have time without me. They're both just the same. And as Kat was saying, the pairs of opposites, you know, they're all related to a me and the other. And pleasure, pain, happy, sad, me, you, yesterday, tomorrow. You know, when you see all that, you just, it's amazing because it just drops away. Yeah. It just drops away. Not that there was ever a doer and you don't ever do anything. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, there's no more questions after a while. Yeah. And, you know, you just think, wow, you know, all those years I was just dissipating my energy with all this crap.
But you weren't. But I wasn't. You was. You never did anything wrong. No, I never did anything wrong. You never did anything right. You never did anything. I just see that those people who spend a lot of time in the illusory self, in the conflict that goes on between them and other people and also in their lives, dissipates. That energy and blocks that spirit, you know.And anyway, it's just free flow. Yeah, it's just when it's all flowing. And what's beautiful is the truth eats away the lie. You never did anything. You never will. Beautiful. And I actually have here, Anika says, good morning, lovely spill, Jane, and a heart and few hearts coming.
And Sandy says, blessed to be part of this community, being reminded, reminded over and over that I am not the stories which appear. And Gilbert's quoting Bob, are you unaware right now? There you go. That's a good question to always remember. That's the proof in the pudding. And Anika says, love that pointer. You can't get what you already are. And Catherine says, so wonderful to be with you all now. Much love from Catherine and James. And love to you guys. Thank you for being with us. And everyone who is online community and everyone who is here, what a lovely dream to share, isn't it?Do you want to add something?
Oh, you have this. Yeah. Yes. What can I add? It's not that. Yeah. It's not that. Is anyone unclear about any of this stuff? It's been hammered home a few times and over many, many years and it's the same message. presented, expressed in so many ways, so many colors, so many voices, movements, in everything. It actually appears in everything, in your whole existence, is the message, resonates, vibrates as like energy, like it can appear, you know, patting a cat. It's like, wow, this is it. And what is it? It's the undeniable fact of your being. So before Kat mentioned, you know, there's one thing to remember is that you can't find the answer in the mind.
So if you can't find the answer in the mind, what remains? This. Hallelujah. It's this. And this is like the undeniable presence, a sense of aliveness, life itself is this and it's always this, never been anything other than this. Any memory you have, any projection, any idea, everything appears always in this. And the word this is just to describeAnd another thing that was, you know, Nisargadatta, a sense of, you know, stay with the I am. The I am is this, not the thought, oh, it's this. Because as soon as the thought comes and says, oh, it's this, it's related to moi, me, myself and I, and there isn't one.
So it's a thought appearing on the sense of presence that is absolutely undeniable. And I think... These meetings and all the different expressions of the same message. It's like there's no cat or Bob or anyone telling me something. It's that one essence expressing, it's like we're all here to remind ourselves or that's a stupid way of explaining it too, but it's another way of just twisting it to show that it is the one essence, patterning, shaping, forming in so many ways. And it's like to even find yourself here, it's like so obvious that that presence, that thing that you always are, that you can't negate, that you can't escape, that is beyond remembering and forgetting and coming and going and direction and proximity and circumferences and positions and reference points.
It's beyond the whole show. And we're all, it's like the... We're all here to resonate with that which we already know innately.But in this room particularly, it's like it's so it's much more palpable and obvious. And here we are remembering the fleeting obviousness of our existence. And I guess in that is a celebration of that and the joy of love of being in itself, which back to the Sat Chit Ananda. The love of, what is the love? The love is the expression, recognizing itself as itself, being itself in infinite colors, shapes, forms, patterns of energy and vibrations. Inhalation. Exhalation. And here it is. It's always that.
And you are that. God's sake. That's it. There's something beautiful about being in the company of truth, isn't there? And like you said, there's unique patterns of energy here and we're all on the same page. So there's something powerful about that. There's something beautiful about that. You know, even though we don't need to name it, we feel it. And they are sometimes, sometimes people come here who consider themselvesstill a seekers who feel that oh you know I'm left out everybody gets it everybody in this room is understanding only not I well everybody equally as you knows that they are and that's the only understanding there ever is If anything, those who are speaking and sharing more, they threw away the rubbish, the misunderstanding.
For example, the misunderstanding, yes, I am not that yet. Oh, I don't get that yet. That's a thought. That's a rubbish. That's not true. You are. You know that you are. That's it. If you know something else, I am a human being. Question it. If you know yet something else that, oh, I will become if I practice enough or I meditate enough or I learn how to silence my thinking or if I train my mind to be more obedient. No, right now you're conscious. If you weren't, that disobedient mind, crazy mind, schizophrenic mind, or whatever the mind is, couldn't express. It couldn't run. It couldn't project the dreams.
So the understanding, the company of truth, like Jane says, we are all on the same page. There is no one who exists any less than anyone else. There might be different degree of delusion or different...thickness of the veil different habit of believing in thinking different strengths of the habit of believing in thinking you know when you meet a Jehovah Witness they may have absolute belief to the point of certainty that that what is their conditioning What they were told by the third party, only because they learned language, that's the truth, end of story. Jesus is your savior, that's it. That's all, maybe that's a different belief.
Or there is an aliens that are feeding of us, or the politicians are all wrong. Whatever the fanaticism is, is just a habit of believing a thought. But that habit couldn't be present if you were unconscious. Corpse doesn't have those projections of final truth. So if we go back to the pure essence. That was the wonderful thing Bob used to say about belief. Belief is only unquestioned. Of something in the absence of reason. Yeah, without any... Positive knowledge of truth. Yes. You got it. I'll say it one more time. Yes. Say it one more time. Yes, so Bob, this is a Cambridge dictionary, I think, that he was using when he brought all those beautiful, helpful pointers.
Belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason.acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. And everything you see, including your name, your nationality, your gender, your past, everything is the unquestioned acceptance of something without the positive knowledge or proof. Because how could you prove it? Jimmy, would you like the mic? How could you possibly prove it? And who is there to do that? It's the third-hand information. It reminds me, I was in therapy on Thursday afternoon, and we're just sitting in silence a lot. And he's like, oh, what's it like for you sitting in the silence? And I was like, it's pretty warm.
It's comfortable. And I said, it reminds me a bit of Sunday morning when I'm sitting in a lounge room with like, what, how I describe like 10 saints. And he's like, are you one of the saints? And then I was like, well, depends how you look at it.If I perceive myself as separate and believe those thoughts, then no. But if I drop the thoughts, yes. And just seeing that sort of, Yeah. Just being able to share oneness and... Bang. Yeah, it's beautiful bang here. Yeah, it is beautiful. Oh, gorgeous. And Gilbert says, neither accept or reject. All affirmations contain their own denial. That's a great point.
Because that which you are, your essential nature, is beyond any positions. That the mind can take acceptance denial rejection all of that is the temporary appearance on the screen that doesn't accept or reject anything it doesn't completely neutral like a screen on which the projection the movie is being casted it doesn't mind anything Thank you, Gilbert. And Gabrielle says, delightful cut. And Peggy, how do you know you exist? You are using any of your physical senses? No, Peggy, it is simpler than that. Existence, and this is what Bob used to say, and I love the way he says it, is pre-sensory. That's why it's called presence.sense so no physical sense can actually affirm or deny the existence the best way is to try stop it for a moment try stop existing good luck with that so you will see that you will even need to exist to try and stop it And even to assess whether you succeeded or not, you still have to exist to assess or to even affirm if the belief comes this way.
Oh, I stopped existing. Well, but you were there to say it. You see how the existence is unstoppable. It doesn't have any flavor, shape, size, form. No sensory sensations are it. Sensations are always appearance. But you can't stop it, can't deny it. It comes straight up against the wall. Yeah. Don't you? There's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go. You cannot deny that you exist. Even to ask the question, that's it. There's nowhere to move from there. There's nowhere to go. There's just, and there's silence. Yes. And I also had, I was looking for a little message that I got from someone, but it was, I have so many channels of messaging, didn't make it.
It was a beautiful message about Jamie's spill last week. I kind of wanted to read it, but it's just, I'll forward it to you later.There was a lot of appreciation from someone who found it very helpful and clear. So that was just it. And now we have a comment from Bradley who says, believing in something does not make it so. Opinions are something around which we rotate until something else comes along. Positions create oppositions. Beautiful, beautiful. Gosh, you're always such a, what is the treasury trove of beautiful pearls. Thank you, Bradley. Jamie, would you like to add something?It seems to be my experience that The only problem there seems to be is we often get caught in a net of concepts.
It's a belief in concepts and I, me being the primary concept.So we come along to meetings like this and we hear this message, these pointers. But they're concepts too. Everything that's been said today is a concept. You are that, you are awareness, there's only this. They're more concepts, you know. Raman has said that, you know, you come here and you have this thorn embedded that's causing discomfort. And the thorn is the concepts that you've taken on board to be true. So Ramana takes these other concepts that you are not the body, you are all that is, you are that eternal self. And uses that as an antidote to these false concepts that we've taken on board.
Uses that thorn to dig out. The thorn that's bothering you.But what we have to also be aware of is that that new thorn isn't replaced with that old thorn that's been dug out, that now I'm not the body, I'm awareness, I'm consciousness. That both thorns are discarded. And that leaves you with the reality, which cannot be conceptualized, cannot be talked about. And, um,it's come to my awareness that that's the only problem that we ever have. It's wonderful to talk about what we are and share in the wonderful beingness of
of that But this message is so much even more simpler than that. It's simply... Taking of concepts to be the reality.
And at any moment, this message ultimately is about dropping all concepts, concepts of being a separate self, of being the body, even concepts of not being the body, of being God, of all that. They're all concepts. Nobody has ever spoken the truth. It has never been spoken. I guess what I'm trying to drive home here is that These pointings are an antidote to a false belief that's causing a great discomfort in these patterns. Through a belief in limitation, a belief in separation, And when all concepts fall away,That's it. His name is Bill. It's a fresh new long listener. Long listener. No, no, I said it now.
It's gone. Forever. Yeah, what's wrong with right now? Think about it. A seeker also asked Ramana once that, so how do I... How do I achieve enlightenment? Ramana said, it's simple. Just drop the idea that you're not already enlightened or liberated or whatever, because the idea that we haven't got it is just an idea. It's just a concept. Even the concept that we have got it is a concept as well, too. Drop the idea that you are unenlightened and don't replace it by the idea that you are enlightened. Exactly. Don't replace it by any idea. It's a freedom. And the net of concepts is like a sticky web.
It's trying, you know, like to extract from that concept because there's such a tendency to want to replace old concepts with new concepts. What was pointed out by these great sages and sharers is that it's freedom from any concept. Yes. And once all the concepts drop away, what are you left with? What's wrong with right now? It's just what is. Just what is. It's so simple.It's easy to get stuck in that web of... Yeah. Because replacing old concepts with new concepts will just cause a different kind of suffering. Yes. That's it. Yeah. And you can't get what you already have. No. In this last few months of life, Bob's still very cheeky.
And he would like to, sometimes he would call me from the kitchen. I was making a racket. He'd call me over and he'd say, what are you doing? Nothing. Then he'd go, what do you know? Nothing. That's it. And what are you? What are you? See, this, nothing, yeah, exactly. Any answer, actually, this is what often happens when people break free from the limiting concepts and they replace it with the grander concept, you know, like I am love or I am silence or I am space. You know, why answer the question? I am what? Am I? Really, am I even an I that needs any sense of definition?
Can I know? Do I need to know? Who needs to know what I am? Is there anyone who craves any information of what I am or who I am? Because until that one dissipates, the search is going to go on better and better.grander idea, I'm my spiritual ancestry line, I am a spirit or I am the soul or I am, is still limiting. Any self-definition is limiting. Space does not need identity. What you are essentially is unknowable, it can't be grasped, it can't be put in concepts, but most of all, it doesn't need to. What you are doesn't give a shit about being grasped or defined.
Space doesn't need to say, this is me, I end here, begin here. This is the beauty of it. When the idea of being something or the other drops away and is not replaced by any other idea, there is just being. What I am? Who cares? There's no one there who wants to know. No one there who wants to know. Yeah, you want to make it on it? Can I say that? Oh yeah, say it again because you're... Say it again, Sam. Just saying what the hell is silence and what the hell is space? They're just not even there when you're not thinking about it. You know, it's just with no thoughts, there's no definable space thing.
There's no definable silence thing. There's like, oh, it's quite a lot quieter than before, you know, whatever before was, a noisy car or pounding thought or whatever.But without activity, yeah, there's no space, there's no silence. Even with the activity, the activity goes on. I mean mental activity or just any kind of thought popping up, without any thought popping up. Even the mental activity, it's like Bob used to say, sometimes his mind's going like that and sometimes there's silence, but neither is preferred because it's really... The belief in the primary I, which is I'm thinking and these thoughts are about me, a reference point that's created is the uncomfortableness.
But when that belief falls away,The thoughts, there's nothing for the thoughts to hook onto, to attach to, to create that uncomfortableness. It's almost like you're watching a movie. Sometimes it's even humorous. It's like, geez, this mind can really drum up some crazy stuff, but there's no identification. And that's the ultimate doership is that I'm doing these thoughts. These thoughts are about me creating that reference point that they're coming back to that's creating the uncomfortableness. And that's what needs to be investigated. Are these thoughts just a happening or... Am I the doer of the thoughts? Am I the thinker? And creating subject-object, I'm the thinker of the thoughts and the objects are me, this reference point that's being thought about.
And that's the dualism, the subject-object left on its own. It's just thinking, which is something that's happening presently, which... Is not there's no doership there's no reference point there it's just a movement like um bob would say like what what is what is sound sound is is a vibration and thoughts are just a subtle vibration in that consciousness of a movement of energy that aren't problematic in any way.the belief that goes into that there's a me that's thinking and I'm the subject thinking, this pseudo subject and the pseudo object that's being thought about, which is the dualism, which is the uncomfortableness, which is what's being invited to investigate is they're actually a thinker.
And is there a reference point that's being thought about? And at any moment, you can see that, well, there's... There's actually nothing there. Yeah, I think a lot of these people... I have to come back to that because that's the opposite of what I was saying. Yeah, so my whole life there's never been a sense of choice, free will, anything. It's always just been... This pattern here is doing this or doing that. So there's no chance of blaming my dad is about to belt me or whatever. There was still a lot of patterns taking place that were recognized as this is just the sum total of me.
There was, I didn't disbelieve the me. Came here nine years ago and said, oh, is there a you in there? And, you know, after a couple of checks over the week, it was like, yeah, no, there's never a little Tony popped up. So that was easy to never be seen again. There's no sense in me. Yeah, whatever. Don't need it. Doesn't need to be there. You know, there or not. It doesn't matter. So those uncomfortable issues weren't there. But then... When there's no thought whatsoever, that's when, so this is like another step along, when there's no thought whatsoever, there's no chance of a consciousness and awareness.a space, any of that, and that's kind of just another fun step to even less than the rest of it.
Well, awareness, consciousness, all that's just thought. Exactly, and so that's how I've always seen that. So when people here say there's awareness and consciousness, that never has made sense. No, but get back to what I was saying before, that they're also concepts, awareness, consciousness. That's just what I said. Yeah, exactly what I said, yeah, exactly. So it's in the dropping of all of those, that's what you're talking about. Yeah, and I've been trying to say this for a few years, and I'm glad you're saying that today as well. But yeah, so... Because we tend to rarefy things like... Yeah, that's the thing. And objectify them as some sort of thing that we get.
Yeah, and it may or may not be tripping people up, but I guess the pattern of one of the fear patterns here was, oh, my God, that's tripping people up. And it might not have been at all. But I kind of like the perspective of the guy that went around studying everybody. And I thought he was quite good at grouping together, you know, experiences that he'd been told from thousands of people. And he sort of, he says he sort of has one block that sort of says, you know, three blocks that, you know, live in the hole. Not much is going on for them. A lot of stuff isn't coming up and they are feeling pretty, just lightly satisfied and, you know, and happy with everything, kind of blissful feelings.
And one of those blocks thinks there's such a thing as awareness. And the next one that's even more blissful thinks there's...No awareness, but there is consciousness. Or it might be the other way around. And then my one where I've sort of been all the time is like, no, there's none of that. And there's not much of attachment and stuff. But there is a constant patterns, set of patterns constantly every moment. This bag's too heavy. You know, whatever. This is uncomfortable. And you can say, oh, okay, there's an implicit me in there. But someone says it's zero me. And it's like, that makes no sense. No thought about that making sense comes up.
But, um... It in a way. I just, yeah, just sometimes when... So is there a problem with any of that? No, it's not a problem. It's just like, it's another way people let go, that letting go takes place, letting go of the whole whatever the baggage is going on. And so this guy's right doing his research and laying it out. I think that helps a lot of people to stop, oh, is that that? Oh, no, it's not at all. Just let go of that and move on and become lighter. But he believes firmly in free will. He says, oh, yes, but there is free will.
And I've never had that experience ever. And it's interesting that people he's looked at have also said, no, that's not a thing for them. Or not a thing, you know, forget I'm saying the word them and me and all that. It's just talking. So... Yeah, just highlighting. Yeah, and I love the way that you brought it up, just highlighting when the thoughts aren't popping up in any shape or form. And I'm not saying that there's a preference for them not to.to be or to be because certainly the preference has never been felt here you know it's like um that they're there or not there's never been a secret here it's never been that experience because when you don't experience free will you just oh yeah i think i've got to go do that oh that's going to happen next oh it looks like this is happening next gonna be bloody uncomfortable because i don't have any money and and i've got to go to this other country and and get it from the horse's mouth but There was no like choice there at all.
It was just this is looks like this is going to happen. Okay. Yep. Right. Next thing. And then a pattern, a whole shitload of patterns about it being uncomfortable. And there's a shitload of patterns yet to go and they are constantly coming up and being released. And, yeah, so it's just lovely to be pointed out that awareness is still a concept and consciousness is still a concept and it may be tripping some people up. Yeah, and I just want to say something to that and to what Jamie said is that, you know, You know, Jamie used to ask Bob, is there a lot of thoughts going on?
And he said, you know, sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. I think a lot of people that get into non-duality think the mind is going to be completely silent eventually. Well, you know, watch the nature of the mind. Watch it. You know, and as Bob said, sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. You know, the nature of the mind.All of a sudden there'll be a whole bunch of stuff going on. Watch how that alleged me, who doesn't exist, tries to name and claim those thoughts. Watch that, you know. It's just interesting, you know. And if the thoughts aren't claimed, in that subject-object relationship that we have, then the thoughts, whether they're there or not, makes no difference.
That's right. Because in a way, it's like they sort of slip into the background. There's sort of thoughts going on, but there's nothing that... There's no reference points there, so they're free to come up, move on. Exactly. It's not like they're in the front of your mind occupying all like they used to when this is about me. I'm thinking these problems are real and look at the furrows on my brow and this is really serious. And it used to create a lot of... Tension, it's just a lightness of being that they're free to come up and free to move on. Sometimes there's a little bit of fixation there, but that's quickly seen through.
Yes, exactly. Even the fixation moves on as well too. Exactly. So watching the nature of the mind, how it's like a clunky mechanical thing sometimes. Working in the pairs of opposites, all time bound, all related to a mate, you know, and then you go, oh, there that is, oh, well, yeah, whatever. Go for it. And other times there's nothing.You know, very little. You know, it's just interesting to watch. I have a couple of comments here from our online community. Anthony says, my dad quotes A Course in Miracles. We clash a little. What's your view on miracles in non-dual sphere? I would say it is all a seeming miracle, the oneness seeming as many.
Yeah, that's a lovely, lovely way of looking at it. It's all a miracle. I mean, you know, imagine there is nothing going on. Nothing has ever happened. And you have this beautiful, colorful dream here with all the textures, flavors, sensations, perceptions, thoughts, dreams within the dream. You know, like we're talking about Anthony's dad. He's not right here right now. But he is in some layer of the layer of a dream, as a fantasy, as an imagination. And the conversation took place in the past, so that's another layer of a dream. It doesn't happen right now, but it is all included. In Coursing Miracles, the miracle has a particular definition, and it is defined as a paradigm shift, when there is a sudden realization that what you thought has happened, or more precisely what you thought your brother has done to you.
Never took place so you suddenly from that perspective of that confined limited separate self being completely trapped with the story ofof wrongdoing and the right doing and the doing all together it suddenly drops like a miracle and now with the fresh and new perception there is just that pure seeing not i seeing or me seeing or the story seeing it's just pure seeing in which everything takes its right place as the appearance on the screen so there's a paradigm shift and the paradigm shift is pretty um it's a pretty accurate description because you know like even when you think of playing a role of a mother or playing a role of an actor on the stage and being so identified as that role that you're doing it so well that life is totally fooled yes this is what is happening and suddenly just dropping that costume and again this dissolving that sense of contraction that reference point uh it's like a paradigm shift this is everyone knows that everyone was dreaming at night and woke up in the morning everyone was in a fantasy land where suddenly you would just oh shit i'm here now so everyone is familiar with that with that little shifts where the dreaming changes completely and the dreaming is always there that moment in seeming experiencing is also a dream the waking dream is the dream also just like the night dream just like the fantasyjust like the memory is still the dream but as nisar gaddada said as i mentioned before bob's favorite quote dream is not your problem let it be i mean enjoy it what the dream it is what's yeah and tanya says dropping all the concepts is as simple as just noticing direct actual experience Well, it's even simpler than that.
Dropping doesn't even need to happen. It is that paradigm shift. It is that realization. I think Jane just said it. I'm not thinking those thoughts. They are just appearance. So dropping the thoughts is realizing that you never held them. You never had them. You know, it's not silencing the mind for the thoughts not to come up. Thoughts are none of your business. Whether thoughts are there or not, it's like whether the digestive juices or saliva in your mouth or the air in your lungs, none of your business. This is all running by itself. It's life running the body. It's life running the electrical impulses on the axons and synapses.
None of your business. Let it be, leave it as it is, realize that that which you are is forever free from thought. It's already space like awareness in which the thoughts are coming and going. So there's no need of dropping anything because you never held it. It is just recognition.that the thoughts are none of your business you're not having them you're not and it cat as well too someone was saying before that you know there's some people hold the concept that with this understanding that the thoughts just drop away and there's no more thoughts and there's no more mind there and i think that may come from because we often hear sages say be thought free But that doesn't mean that thoughts aren't there.
It's exactly what you're expressing there, that what we are, that presence is always thought free. Yes, you are. So it's free of the thoughts. So it's free for the thoughts to come and go and move on and express however they're going to express. Spontaneously. Spontaneously, but you're always free of the belief in the concepts. And I think that's what's sort of being pointed more to rather than the thoughts are just going to disappear and you're never going to think again. It's just being free. Those thoughts are free to come, express, move on and be replaced by whatever's next. That's really what thought free. In my understanding.
And I want to talk about that miracle, the miracle that was coming up. Having been the recipient of a miracle, you know, and having had a psychic change or a changeof mind or you know you could call it the mind actually dropped and reality was was seen yeah I think you know it's all naming of course it's all naming and trying to point but it is miraculous if you like to use a label how you know we tootle along in the world for years and years and all of a sudden, you know, bang, something's gone that used to be dogging us, you know, that used to be an incredibly strong pattern, you know, and You know, everything the alleged mind did to try and get rid of it doesn't work because there's no answers in the mind.
We know that. But it's incredible how all of a sudden, bang, it's gone, you know. And so to me, that's miraculous. If you want to call it, label it something, it's miraculous, it's grace, it's, you know, seeing what is. But, yeah, I think there's a lot of people in this room who've been the recipient or recipients of that kind of shift. And, you know, and yet none of them ever did anything. So it's pretty miraculous, really.It's like some sort of cosmic practical joke's been played on you. It's like, are you serious? I've been beating myself up my whole life with all this bullshit. And it's just, so it is miraculous, but it's also very, very funny when it's seen.
It's like, are you? Why did I waste my energy on all that shit? The thoughts are, the seeming thoughts are... I just wanted to ask, what is your opinion about information? What is information? What is information? Well, it's the nature of the mind to gather information. It's like a computer system, isn't it, really? So it's, you know, as a little child, you know, when we can differentiate between me and the other when we're first told we're separate. That little sponge, if you like, or mind, alleged mind, gets given all sorts of pointers. Oh, you're separate, that's your mummy, that's your daddy, that's society.And so this little computer system that appears upon that presence that you are and that unique pattern of energy that you are stores all that information.
So that is gathered and it puts it into the pairs of opposites. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad, me, you, yesterday, tomorrow. That's how I see information. And information can be a useful tool as long as it's just seen as information. But if there's a particular preference to that information,
If it's a preference that causes dis-ease, it causes separation, it causes conflict, then I guess you're sitting around in rooms like this too. Find a way of detaching from that. Which I eventually have to find out that I refuse to do so. That's not possible. Because how can something already happen again? There is no you to detach.
I guess you're attracted or repelled from certain aspects of that information. Or not you, there is an attraction or a repelling from certain aspects of that information. Is that correct? Well, I get distracted for internal reasons, but I mean, there's only one thing which is freedom. Yeah, because I cannot become free again. How can I become free again? There's no one to become free, is there? I mean, you're already free. Right now. So this is the best way of ending the conversation. Tanya wants to bring us back on the non-duality. Information is a fascinating subject, and thank you for the question, but I'm pretty sure you could have a wonderful, wonderful conversation.We've chatted GPT about that.
And here Tanya has something on that. Oh, it actually relates to the thoughts. We use the label thought. We use the label thinking. It's all words again. The minute we open our mouths. You know, we're stuffed because it can't be expressed with the mind and the limited tools, but there is a knowing and that's, we are the knowing, the experiencing is, that's happening right now, fresh and new, spontaneous. And those, what we refer to as thoughts, are occurring in the experiencing, which is what we are. And the thinking. And the thinking. And just like the vision is occurring in the experiencing, and the sound is all in the experiencing.
And when I say the experiencing, it's just what, that's us. That's it. There's nothing else. Beautiful. Full stop. Just this beautiful, sentient field of being, experiencing. And when I think the two of you had a discussion about, not discussion actually, because everyone is really pointing to the same, about the expectations of the thoughts fading away or thoughts to stop. When we say you already are and you already are,are aware that you are and that is the final realization that means that final realization is not right now it's always been so so if you had millions of thoughts a day or decade five years ago you already were back then if the thoughts were present and you were already existent and conscious of your existence there is no reason why this should change If the brain is functioning appropriately, its job is to narrate, to comment, to do the commentary.
That's what it is designed to do. That's what it is programmed to do. So if it has done it yesterday, it will continue doing it tomorrow and forever, unless there is a brain damage, concussion, Alzheimer's or whatever else, because this will be changing too. But there is the expectation that suddenly from now on, I am realized and my mind will go quiet. It's ridiculous. The presumptions there that you weren't realized yesterday, that there is someone who could be realized, that that has to do anything with the appearance, with the appearance in the field of seeing. You think the appearance, we had a guy here who used to come to the meetings and argue.
Oh no, the whole seeing, the experience of seeing, the content of seeing, it has to change. I have to start seeing things as like translucent. And I have to start bumping to the walls and maybe...be killed by a car because I can't see it properly. Why? How? This is ridiculous. Just like the content of the field of seeing will be constantly changing, it's always constantly changing, but it doesn't affect the whole field in the least. Same with the content of the field of thinking, in the field of sensing, of smelling, of touching. That has absolutely nothing to do with the realization that you are. That realization has always been so.
It is not to be realized today, tomorrow, or at any time. It has always been so. And now we have a comment from Jyoti. She says, all thoughts that appear are related to the separate self. Not sure who said that earlier. Great pointer. And Tanya says, thank you. And Anthony says, I guess miracle is a strong word for me, but also very apt. Regarding all thoughts that appear are related to the separate self, don't get too attached to that because. You know, thoughts are thoughts. They don't really have to relate to anything. If the thought narrates the weather and it narrates that the sky is blue, but without the content that I like the blue sky or I don't like a blue sky, it doesn't.
It doesn't. Thoughts are, you know, like there are people who are in the field of science, like Tanya, being completely focused on the project and really...really downloading it into the thoughts are flowing freely without being related self-referential thoughts those are particular sort of a part of of experiencing the self-obsession self-centeredness those thoughts cause psychological suffering Non-self-referential thoughts are just a part of functioning to be fully appreciated. It's just part of the functioning. There's nothing wrong with them. Not all are self-referential, but it doesn't matter. Those self-referential are those that we investigate. And I could just say all information that's gathered by the mind, they're just thoughts too.
Yeah. You know, and if there's no preference, as I was saying before, then that's just what's happening. Yeah, absolutely.And it's possible that the thoughts are just the commentator and the whole race is being run anyway. And nobody, I think, can prove that either way. I'm just reminded of an experience I had when I was a small child. And I grew up, you know, loving the footy, watching the footy on, used to show it on TV Sunday night. You could watch the replay and the game. You know, Lou Richards and all these great commentators all commentating the game. And the first time my grandmother took me to the football was the most extraordinary experience that always stayed with me because I was so used to that narration.
I remember going and we took our seats in the grandstand and, you know, all the anticipation, the game's about to start. Siren blares. Bounces the ball and the game begins and there was just silence. There was no narration. It's like the game is happening of itself. There was a subtle sort of belief in me that Lou Richards and that who were calling the game were actually causing the game to happen. They were part of the game. And that realisation stuck with me that, wow, the game just goes on of itself. And in a way, a lot of our...thinking in that narration is the belief in the doership that I've got to somehow plan and micromanage every little part of my life or it's not going to happen.
So when that is seen through that we are just being lived, we're just a pattern that a lot of that unnecessary narration does seem to fall away. You just notice, wow, life is just happening. It doesn't need to be me here micromanaging and thinking and imagining what I'm going to do tomorrow and how that's going to work out, even though planning still happens. But there's not that micromanaging of the, if, you know, if I'm not here managing this, narrating this life, it's all going to fall apart. Nothing's going to happen. So that's the kind of, it's a certain sort of thinking that falls away. And with that sort of thinking is the blame and the guilt and the shame because I fucked it up, I did it wrong, I should have done that instead, or they did something wrong, it's their fault that this happened.
And that kind of, that thinking, in my experience, has totally fallen away anyway. So the thinking that remains is just the functional day-to-day thinking. Without those sort of, you know, blame, shame, guilts. Because they're all doership. They're all the feeling.this me, this reference point that we've imagined, this phantom, is actually up there here with the gears of life making it all happen. So in a sense, my experience is that all that kind of thinking has fallen away. Yes. Yeah, and it's that watching that naming and playing. How that drops away, watching how the naming and claiming drops away. And you just, life's living this and it's just actions happen.
Yeah. And, you know, it's just amazing to watch. And that's just part of the understanding because once it's clearly seen that there is no doership that life is just happening and we are being lived through that intelligence doesn't make sense for those like that just it's like thinking about once you've seen santa claus doesn't exist you're not worried that santa claus isn't you know you gotta just once you see it's been seen through it doesn't make sense to sort of think that way anymore Yeah, so the only thing that is ever lost is the illusion of control, is the illusion of doership. Because once you realize that I don't have to micromanage my life, I realize I've never done it.
The commentary was completely independent from the game. Yes, absolutely. And we have here, Bradley says, all thoughts are transition.Word structures and images, emotions are energy in motion. Sensations are only made sensational by one's attachment to them. Stories are either plugged into the past or wired to the future. Character in the story can't be the author of the story. Yeah, that's beautiful, Bradley. I wish there was some punctuation. It's a little bit hard to read, but I hope, yes, it's perfect. I hope I read it correctly. And Anthony says, love you all. You are my closest and also furthest friends. Laughing out loud. Love from UK.
Join us on Zoom, Anthony, if you can. We are on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I think it is 11.30 UK time, 10.30 if you're not working. And feel free to join even for just 20 minutes or half an hour. There is no requirement to stay all 90 minutes. You're welcome to. Just check it out. You're going to be a little bit closer when we can feel you, I'll see you, I'll hear you. It's just an invitation. And Catherine says, great sharing, a constant reminder of what truly is. Thanks so much. And thank you, guys. And thank you, everyone. Anyone, any last words? We have another minute.
Helmut, would you like to contribute something?This is it? Yes. That's a wonderful last word. Did you have one more? How can I? Last word, the last word. This is it. All is that. All is this. All is now. All just is without anything. And I guess I think we talked about concepts and concepts to get rid of concepts and this is all non-conceptual awareness. There is no concept really. Like they're all concepts. The thought, we talked about thought. The thought I think can't think. It's a thought. It's a packet of subtle energy appearing on the screen. And the screen is this. And is our essence and is undeniable and unescapable.
Nothing to get to, nothing to be, nothing to strive, nothing, any, like, rest in that fact. Rest and be. Because what you already are, yeah. One without a second. Not even one. Not even one, but we have one big cake for Toni. It's her birthday tomorrow. One to share.