This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Okay, so would anyone like to swap the chair and give us an introduction? Just for a heck of it, to see how the same life essence is speaking through someone else, through you. It's just an invitation, no, no.Okay, I'll keep your word. Okay, wonderful. Yeah, it's just basically to present Bob's style, although he would only me allow to, he would only allow me to replace him. But yes, now, would you? Not today. Okay, yeah. So it is going to be, for those who are first time, it's just going to be, I don't know, 20 minutes, half an hour of basic introduction where we just throw together a few pointers to resonate with.Yeah, I can't.
Oh, you can. You can move it around. How about that? Yeah, that's good. That's fine. That's okay. It's on the right corner. Yeah, that's an important icon. Brings very, very good, heartfelt, positive feelings in everyone. Feeling of love and gratitude. And yes, that's... And we actually do want to preserve his style. So that's what we do. So a few pointers to start with, and then we're going to have discussions. We're going to invite everyone to contribute. Tell us what resonates, what you understood, what you struggle with, what's not clear. And we'll just see where this energy will get us. Just before the meeting started, there was a couple of things that just came up that I found interesting to start with.
First, I heard someone, well, you know, one could come here and learn something. First words which Bob usually would start the meeting, there's nothing to learn. No one can teach you anything. No one can tell you anything. Because there is no one who knows better than you that you are. This is the direct experience. This is not something that has to be told. And any teachings, any information that could be transmitted from one personto another are not it. If you didn't have that information yesterday, that's obviously not the final truth, because final truth is that which never changes. So if there is any information that could change the experience of the final truth, that won't be an experience of final truth.
That will be just another experience of perhaps more pleasure. But that's it. The final truth or realization, self-realization or no self-realization, realization of no separation or awakening or whatever, whichever word people like to stick on it, is that which never changes, meaning it is already right here, shining in a plain view, is just being ignored. So that was one of the concepts. Bob would say, I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. Because the one who is speaking and the one who is hearing is not separate. There is just that one self-to-self talk. So there is no me, there is no you in which the communication could happen.
This is only in the dream. It's even clearer. He says there's nothing to get. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Nothing to get. Yeah. It's stronger, isn't it? Yeah. You want a mic? No, not really. Yeah. Yes, that was in a different paragraph. He said there is nothing to get.and there is no one to get it. So, and there is no future in which that no one could get that no thing. Yeah, so that was when he was on the topic of getting. The topic of the teachings, yes, there is nothing to learn. And there is no one to teach. Another thing that came up briefly, and this is always fascinating, it is the maps of the reality that show up in the dream.
You know, the beautiful, in that dream called life, we have a beautiful maps of reality, for example, called science. What an incredible description of the dream. It has nothing to do with reality as such. It is the map of the dream. Or, like we were talking about the scale of consciousness, the beautiful calibration of different and description of emotional component and the worldview that goes with it. Amazing map or Cole's favorite the you know the Ken Wilber's spiral dynamics or my favorite the Enneagram map a lot of wonderful wonderful maps of reality to just of reality seeming reality of that dream reality which we can get high on Ah, wow, fantastic descriptions.
None of it is the ultimate truth. None of it is required. Nobody needs to.know science or needs to know spiral dynamics or anything to realize that there is no one there to know anything that there is no one there who could teach you anything and there is no you who could learn anything It is not to deny that those incredible, like modern medicine, wow, what an incredible achievement within that dream, what a building, what a sociology, anthropology, they're all beautiful, they're all to be appreciated and loved for what they are. They're beautiful collective narratives, a story that exists only when we think about it. Where is the anthropology, history, science, spiral dynamic when you don't think about it?
When you pause the thought for a moment, where is the scale of consciousness? Where is anything that is not happening in immediate this, thisness? Where is yesterday? Where is tomorrow? And this is the beauty and simplicity of the natural state and of the non-duality. That in non-duality we dive right into direct experience before it has been interpreted and translated into those incredibly brilliant, potent, beautiful and making you high descriptions of the dream. Description is not the described. Description is just the overlay. It is a constructed reality.The immediate reality is prior to thought, prior to description. I am prior to the idea of being a body, female body, body named Katerina, whatever the concepts come.
I exist before this interpretation, before Australia, this room, before concept of Bob and the gratitude that we all have towards him. Before that, there is existence. And that is never not here. Whenever you check whether there are thoughts or there are no thoughts, there is existence, there is being, there is presence. And prioritizing direct experience of that presence and acknowledging that direct experience of that presence and then seeing whatever arises in that basic screen or in that cognizing emptiness. And by all means, loving the dream, as Nisargadatta says, love it all or none of it. It doesn't matter. Because if you love it all, then you don't love it at all.
Or if you don't love it, it's just if you don't differentiate, if there is no differentiation. This is good, this is bad, then of course there is no perspective, there is no paradigm, viewpoint, reference point, because any differentiation comes only from the reference point. Everything is as it is, space doesn't differentiate, the cognizing emptinessdoes not differentiate. It unconditionally embraces and accepts everything that appears on it. Whatever movie is played on the screen, screen doesn't mind. And you are that screen. Deep down in that relaxation, where the thinking mind, when that constructed reality made of the habitual mechanical interpretation, mechanical software narrating, like a sport commentator narrating, oh, we are in a room, this guy likes me, this one doesn't, I'm good enough, I'm not good enough.
This is completely mechanical program that has been installed. For the sake of the adding extra colors and shades and experiences to a dream. There's nothing wrong with that. But when that narrative program, when that commentary saying, I like this, I don't like this, has the presumption in it that there is an I, and this I is my true identity, well, welcome to hell. That's how the suffering, that's how that very narrative constructs the whole psychological suffering. By creating a presumption that that automatic, natural, mechanical preference for pleasure and not pain It's personal. There is an I. And this preference.Therefore, I have to defend it. Therefore, if I can't pursue it, I'm unhappy, I'm miserable, because I'm real.
There is an I, there is a self. Well, if you look out in nature, the wind doesn't have any preference where to blow. The earth doesn't have any preference which speed does. Nature does not differentiate and it does not associate and identify itself as a point which try to somehow pursue its will through the illusion of control because control can never be there if the self is imagined. Control is imagined. Free will is also imagined. Life unfolds as it should. The wind blows wherever it blows because of the 10,000 things that cause the blow of the wind. And this body will move its attention towards one object or the other also because of the 10,000 things that conditioned this body.
I don't know my next thought. If my next thought will be raise your hand and that thought will be charged and maybe the hand will raise. Maybe not if the thought is not charged. But how do I think it? There is no I to think a thought. There is just spontaneous unfolding on that basic screen. So if my attention is completely relaxed, if the sense of identity is completely relaxed, I am the pure presence, the cognizing emptiness. And within that cognizing emptiness, the world aroundand part of the arising world is the body which witnesses or looks at the world. The body and the world cannot be separated.
They arise interdependently at the same time, just like in the dream. Different world arises and different body arises and it also sees the dream. They arise in the same moment. This is the content of arising. They arise in the screen of consciousness. If I identify as that arising object within that field of consciousness, this is I, this is me, obviously I'm limited. I'm small, I'm vulnerable. Something wrong can happen to me. I have to defend myself. And the body is vulnerable. The body does need to be defended. The body does need to be fed and looked after. But the body is already equipped to cater for itself.
Just like a body of a little baby is equipped to cry when it's hungry. Just like a body of a little kitten will squeak and find the way to provide for itself, because that squeak will spike the oxytocin in the mother. The world has already resolved those issues. The narrative that says, I have to cater for myself.Hi, Marty. You can grab the chair and put it in the corner or put it here anywhere. Put it in the naughty corner. Actually, we take that one because there's another. Yeah, there is a couple of corners here. Oh, there's someone telling you. Oh, no. Yes, so we were just reminding the basics, but neither of you need that reminder, so we are just going to continue.So when there is no belief in the conceptual thinking, there is nothing wrong.
When there is no belief in I doing the thinking, I thinking something right or I thinking something wrong or I happening, I something happening to that I, if there is no belief, in being something limited, then there is nothing wrong. The body cutters for itself. You don't have to worry about your next breath or heartbeat. It is already pre-programmed. The body is already conditioned by socializing, to pay the bill or go show up at work. It's no problem. There is nothing that needs narration and commentary in it. But narration and commentary happens and it's likely to just keep happening for the rest of your life because unless there is a brain damage or unless there's some science comes up with some nice solutions to stop the narrative, it is going to go.
But if you see it for what it is, well, it's kind of fun. It's kind of entertaining. There's nothing wrong with the narrative. When the narrative says, oh shit, I'm anxious. Oh, fascinating, isn't it? Wow, lovely. And when the narrative says, oh, but I don't want this one to happen to me. Oh, that's so sweet. Thank you. How loving. I don't want bad things to happen to me. Wow. But there is no I that wants it. And there is no me that it could happen to.It's just a line of words. It's just a sentence happening on the screen. If there is no belief in the content of that sentence, this is all sweet, it's all cute, it's nothing wrong.
Let it chat, let it yap, let it comment. But habitually the belief floats into those ideas. Oh, this is me. I'm vulnerable. Something is going to happen to me. I'm going to lose the money or I'm going to get sick and old and die. I'm the body, of course, now. The presumption is that I, the body, or I, the body-mind, the collective, I'm going to get hurt. I'm going to get mistreated, rejected. If the idea, if the belief comes to that idea, and now I identify as that little thing driving the body or the whole body, again, now we're living in a dream, that fantasy.
It's painful. That fantasy may have its pleasures for moments when I feel confident and strong and good enough. And then it will have its, it's a double bind. It have its pains because if I believe I'm good enough, in a minute I'll believe I'm not. If there is a belief, if there is any reality given to those concepts, then it is bound to hurt at some point or the other. But is there? And this is the invitation which Bob repeated and hammered down. Is there any reality to that chattering voice in the head?When the chattering voice says I, what is it referring to? What do I think that I is?
What I am? Who am I? Is there anybody there? And again, looking at direct experience without the thought. Who am I without the thought? Is there any object that I could call myself unless I somehow define it by thought? If I push aside all the chatter, all the narrative, what is the direct experience? Can I even say who am I? Of course not, because to say it again, I need the words, the definitions, the concepts. Can I say I am the body if I don't have a thought? Can I experience I am the body if I don't have mental image or a thought? Can being a body even be experienced without that mental overlay of imagination?Can I be the mind if I didn't conceptualize the idea that I am the mind, I'm the thinking?
So what am I without those concepts? Or perhaps, where am I without the thought? How big am I without the thought? Do I have the beginning without the thought? Do I have the end? Do I have a shape without the thought? Do I have an age or gender if I don't have a thought? Do I have limitations in space or in time if I don't have a thought?This is to verify via direct experience. See how limitations comes with mental images. All of them. Without those, you just are. Can you deny your presence? You are. And everything arises within that presence. Can you separate yourself from that which arises without the thought?The space in which the sounds, the sights, the sensations arise without the thought.
Can you say which is you, which is not you? So direct experience is uncompromising. At any point, you can just revert back to who am I prior to thought. There may be very, very distressing thought arising. But a second before that thought, who was I then? Now I'm anxious, I'm fearful. But a moment ago, before that thought arose, I also was there. But who was I? Was I anxious? No. So the anxiety comes and goes. It is passing phenomena. But the presence, the presence that is always here, every time you look, there is a presence. The presence that doesn't change. When you were five years old, there was the presence.
And you could say, I, I was there. When I was 15 year old, I was there. But what was there? It wasn't the body. The body, not one cell is the same. Maybe one cell, whatever, change, transform, doesn't matter. It's not the same body, obviously. Bob would say that this is not the same body right now that it was an hour ago. Because there's constant flux in the body, constant replacement of the cells. They're also atoms.and they all vibration, they all energy moving, moving very, very fast. So what is it solid? What is it substantial? How could that be you? So what was there, what is always there, whenever you look, is always now.
And what is always there? The presence. And Bob has this beautiful set of questions that point to that presence or that awareness. Are you unaware? Are you unconscious right now? Nope. You're conscious. What can you say about it? Is that consciousness, is that fact of being aware, is it hot or is it cold or is it big or is it small or is it dark or is it light or is it sweet or sour? Nothing. It just is. Nothing can be said about it. But it's undeniably here. The presence is prior to senses, is pre-sensory. There is nothing that can be said about it and yet it cannot be denied.
The fact of your own existence, the fact that you are, is not a belief, it's a fact. The fact that you are, that you are. It's called Mahavakya, that you are. The fact that you are is undeniable. And this is the final truth. And this is the final answer. The fact that you are is not a small thing. Because without that, nothing is. If you are not, there is no world.There is no body, there is no story, there is no science, there is no medicine, there is no scale of consciousness, nothing. Without the presence, there is no dream, no daydream of this moment, no fantasy of tomorrow, no night dream from last night.
So you are that basic screen of pure presence. And that can't be denied. What obscures it is the idea that you are something appearing on that screen. But that can only be imagined. That cannot be experienced. Well, it is kind of experienced through imagination, but it cannot be experienced directly. Being something or the other cannot be experienced directly without translation of the conceptual thinking, without interpretation of that biocomputer giving telling you the story. Without the story, you just are. That's all that can be said. And usually in that moment, the mind rises. Yeah, sure. Yes, but so what? I mean, come on. Where is the enlightenment?
Where is the great ecstasy lasting forever and ever? The continuous orgasm in which I don't ever need to have an urge for chocolate or other pleasures because I'm already fulfilled and superior to everyone else and everyone bows down to me because I'm the great enlightened and they are.Can you see the ridiculousness of that nonsense story? It's just, it's laughable. It's laughable. It's a story of separation. It's a story of separation of me now arriving at the point of ecstasy versus me being not in the point of ecstasy 15 minutes ago or 10 years ago. What is it? Separation. Story of me being enlightened versus you being not enlightened.
What is it? A separation. If the realization of enlightenment is the collapse of any sense of separation, then obviously it has to be a collapse of any sense of imagination and interpretation of the story. And this is not to say that the storyteller has to die or that the story can or the thinking has to stop. You have to get brain shock or stroke or Alzheimer's or whatever. No. Recognizing the thinking as same beautiful, magnificent, dreamy appearance as any other sense. sensation or object in consciousness and that's it and you're free. Recognizing the sound of the passing car as the sound of a passing car is not ultimate reality, it's a passing car, it's a passing phenomena, so is the thinking, so is the interpretation.
I can get up in the morning and have a wonderful story from the top of the scale of consciousness. How beautiful the world is, how loving the God is, how wonderful and grateful I am for a beautiful moment of having friends and having a fairly healthy body. And then 15 minutes later, I get the phone call when someone abuses me and threatens me. And suddenly the world is different. The God is vindictive and I am not good enough and I deserved it and I have a bad karma. How reliable that is. If we don't see it for what it is, the story, and there is a belief, habitual belief going into it, and I am the good one and I am the bad one, yes, that's hell.
But it doesn't have to be this way. If you realize that you are not the dream character, you are the screen, you are the presence, the cognizing emptiness. The relaxed space-like awareness, the pure being. Bob would always bring here, I think, the Sat Chit Ananda concept, which I had people criticizing it. Ah, it's not Western language, Sat Chit Ananda. I don't know. I don't understand. It's true.just a brilliant pointer in the Hindu religion saying that the whole manifested world, that anything and everything can be summarized to five words. Three describing reality and two describing the illusion. Three of the reality is Sat Chaitanya, being, consciousness, bliss, or presence, awareness of presence, and joy of being or stillness.
That's the reality. There is no bodies in it. There is no minds. There is no worlds. Just being, just consciousness, and just joy of being. Nothing else. No shapes, no patterns, no forms. Only that pure screen of a life vibrant vital presence that's the reality and that is indirect experience all that can ever be now the other two words are describing illusion nama rupa name and form everything that you conceptualize and name is illusion. You dream at night and you see people in your dream and you see trees and buildings and you label them and you distinguish them and you separate them and they collapse when you wake up in the morning.
That's Maya, that's illusion. Same with this one. In 15 minutes that room may be completely different. In couple of hours, hundred years, thousand years, it won't be there. Realizing that it is a dream, that it is changing.phenomena doesn't make it disappear why would it this is to be enjoyed and appreciated this is the experience and expression that potent vibrant life essence that you are dances and reflects itself in 10 000 ways in 10 000 things so it captures a glimpse of self-appreciation the emptiness which becomes the form the form which becomes the emptiness just a fluctuation and dance but this is all nama rupa you can interpret it differently in you know take a drug and you will have different experience or get drunk or fall asleep and experience is constantly constantly constantly fluctuating There's nothing real about it.
But experiencing in which that changing phenomena passes is one and the same. Experiencing the capacity for being, knowing and joy of being. It's always there. And this is it really. Anyone would like to add anything to it? Do you like the... Do you know the grapes feel? Fantastically powerful. There's a lot of peace. It feels very peaceful in here today. It feels really good. Yeah. But name and form is the entire content of the dream. Yeah. Takeaway is...the word, the symbolic language, and the assumption that that word defines the form somehow, and it's just what's happening. You take that out. Incredible, incredible illusion, all created by this narrative that uses symbolic language to differentiate, to separate.And all that separation comes back to that core habit of energy of belief in the I, the me, as separate.
And if you believe that, then you're in opposition. Constantly. Because what is not I or me is other. And potentially a threat. But the tiny, tiny little energy of belief that goes into a transient vibration in space that says,Drop it. Drop it. Just for the hell of it, for fun. See what happens. Great to see you. Good to see you. I was just thinking of a point that came up from Bob. I can't remember, so I might need a bit of help articulating it, but there's something like, you know, if you have this... Whatever experience, this non-dual experience, if you try to hold on to it, then you stop this next one from appearing or happening.
I mean, it's just like just seeing that it's always happening right now and blah, blah, blah. Sort of, I have no idea what's being said, and that's just the life.Yeah. There's just really nothing to say. I guess just a lot of appreciation for Bob and this life. Essence that moves No one. To be here. I actually just don't know what to say. It's just like this is happening and Bob pointed to me that this is happening and this is still happening. Yeah, the story seemingly makes it, the belief in the story makes it appear as though there's a character and someone, then things are changing, but actually it's still just this.Yeah, it's pretty nice.
And this is, yeah, I was just going, just challenge a little bit. Gratitude is a beautiful thing. Gratitude to whom? From whom? Montañas are rising. Yeah. It's a lovely thing in the dream. It just pops up and there's nothing wrong with that. And also I wanted to actually, I remember the pointer and thank you for that. This is really, really great thing to actually remember because that can be remembered. Bob was hammering down to everyone. Everyone had a glimpse. Everyone had an insight. Everyone was a newborn baby once where you had no concepts, just pure awareness. A lot of people will hold on to the old insight and try to get back there.
Oh, I saw it for a moment. How do I get back there? You didn't see it and there is no you to get back anywhere. Let it go so the fresh and new insight, fresh and new moment will reveal itself. In that relaxed natural state, natural space like awareness. Holding on to the old inside,This is already dead because the mind has already grabbed hold of it and made it to a concept, made it to a memory. Memory is already a mental object happening within that alive, vibrant space. So that object is dead. Whatever you remember about your fantastic insights, realizations, is dead. This moment right now, this is a fresh and new, alive moment.
And in this moment, the realization is fresh and new. Get out of the way, relax, and see that this very moment will never ever be the same again. It is precious and it contains the whole dream, including past, future, memories, everything. But mainly, it is made of that aliveness that you are. Acknowledge that at any point you look, there is the aliveness, there is a luminous radiance of presence without which nothing is. This is a dream? What a dream! Without that presence that you are, even when the dream gets bad, even the dream gets... Whatever the dream gets, is constantly changing. But if you weren't here, If there was no...Consciousness.
The dream couldn't even exist. Give credit where credit is due. Yeah, and aligned very closely, somewhat with the concepts that are seen. Beautiful and helpful are not always the case. And one of those concepts is the concept of hope. What is hope? Probably the definition varies from one seeming entity to another. For many, it's inbuilt to the idea of hope is the I. me, the my, and the wish for future, things to be different than they are.Rejection. Correct. It's a rejection of what is now. I hope for things to be different. I hope to attain enlightenment. I hope to become a guru. It's no different than a wish.
For change and a lack of or a denial of what is or an unhappiness wished for things to be different in rather than an acceptance as it is. Subtle idea that I know better than God how this moment should look because God is an idiot. He spoiled it. He got it all wrong. It should be different. I'm giving you a stick. I'm just saying that this is few good morning messages and Laura says you two girls together remind me of Abba. I keep waiting for you two to jump up and sing Mamma Mia. And she says, hey Kat, there is an echo with your microphone, some type of a feedback.
Yes, sorry, it's not going to show up again because the other microphone is far away. Close together. You know, just what you were saying about hope.It's like in the threes, faith, hope and charity, like being, knowing and loving to be, said Chit and Nanda, I like to say it in threes. But I sort of think of hope now like it is that, for me it's like it is the knowing, knowing that you are. And in that knowing of saying hope is knowing that you are and being open to the realm of possibilities, like not being stuck in what you think you need to escape in that moment, just knowing that every, as they say in...
The you know sort of fellowship that i'm involved in it passes everything everything passes so be ready for the next the next part of the adventure because it's um it's bound to change from where it is and um you know i used to what i really went i came came here several years ago And what I really liked about what Bob was saying was that it's always now. Now is the only time there is. And, you know, I really used to struggle with that, that there was a past and that there will be a future. And all that was very... Ingrained and I said but Bob there is a past that what about the French Revolution and he goes but when's that happening and I said well it happened years ago but he said oh but it's only when you're thinking ofabout it.
And I said, no, no, it's in the books and it's in, you know, it's on the internet. Yes, but only when you're looking at it, only when you're thinking about it. And I used to think, you know, that was amazing. But then when you realise that all the past and all the future, whatever it be, is only there when the mind goes there and looks at it and thinks about it. And that's pretty amazing when you think that all the realm of possibilities from the past and the future are somewhere there, accessible to the mind. But it's just a huge realm of possibilities. It's impossible to stick it in your pocket.
And, you know, one person's interpretation of the past is completely different to another. One person's, one culture's memory of the past is completely different to another. And the projections. Of the future too. So what's wrong with right now, if you're thinking about it, is where I always start from. And then the thoughts, the namaruba, they come and go all day. That's how I experience it. It's like a continual happening dream and I get caught up in it. And have reactions to it, but then the freedom is that you can let go of it too, like you can wake up from the dream and realise it's a dream, just like you can walk out of a scary movie if it gets too scary in a way, you know.
It's quite amazing.And, yeah, so it's all dreamlike. It all comes and goes. And you are that. And that was a hard one because that really belief, a strong belief in the me, that it was happening to me or it's my experience or even my consciousness, that it's not that. And I think... I think it was Bob who said to me, but are you aware of the traffic? It's often said that the tram going past or the lawnmower or something. Just let that awareness, instead of being here, let the awareness be where that is, you know. Stretch the awareness out. And then I started to realise.
The awareness is out there or the awareness is everywhere. It's not here. You know, it's not where I thought it was. I think I'm over there. Thank you. That was awesome. I suppose it's only a recent realisation, you know, that I grew up in this society of right, wrong, good, bad, yes, no. And that's how we were conditioned. It's right, it's wrong, it's good, it's bad, it's yes, it's no. But it's not like that at all. And my dear friend Cliff often says, Rod, seek to be in the present moment. And I gave that some thought. How do I measure that?And I know that's a sort of another concept of measuring that maybe we don't measure the present moment because it's less than a trillionth of a billionth.
You can't measure it. You can only just be it or be in it for that moment. And the other thing I'd be really interested, I've been reading a lot of works of late about trauma, you know, and, you know, we've all experienced trauma and trauma is relative. So some people's trauma is much greater than others, but we still have effect. And I'm just interested how you would approach trauma. Someone that's lived heavy-duty trauma, you know, because that, according to my favourite author, we start to experience trauma in the womb. And the problem with that is we can't articulate it. We can't reason it. It's just pain.
And then... The strategies we adopted, and I'm guilty of this, the strategies I adopted to cope as a three-year-old, I have been using as an adult, ineffective. I'd be interested in your perspectives on that. Yeah, so actually I don't have perspective, but the non-dual perspective would actually translate it slightly differently to different language. Starting from what Cliff was saying, which was spot on and beautiful.Now the experience is that, yes, I am always present, and then sometimes I get caught up in the thought, and then I can let go of it. Well, really, the attention gets caught up in the thought, and the attention, if it's trained enough to recognize it, just lets go.
There isn't really any I that is caught up, and there isn't any I that is traumatized. The trauma is in the body-mind system, by all means. And the best and the healthiest and the most kind of concept-free way of looking at it is to look at the animal world. Look at the traumatized animals in the wild, in the wilderness, or in the shelter. Look how they deal with trauma. They don't have a thousand ways of therapy to choose from. They don't have the illusion of being capable of choosing right or wrong. It is the life essence, the same life essence which is beating the heart of a dog, the same life essence will make him avoid one thing and go towards the other.
The same life essence will bring it to the particular solution if there is a problem. And that's how the nature resolves it. It does it the same way in our case. Some people will be drawn towards psychedelic assisted therapy. Other people will be drawn towards psychiatric methods and drugs. And now we could have thousands of books.crit and which is better, which is worse. But the truth is, there really is no choice. One body who did not choose its conditioning and did not choose its trauma or birth trauma or even prior traumas, which is part of the conditioning. The environment conditions the body to respond in particular way to the trigger.
You know, there are people very subjective, you know, who went through the same experience, Auschwitz, for example, and they have completely different way of responding because of different conditioning. And they are moved differently also towards different methods. And there is always that life that moves them. Life moves people to step out of relationships or to stay in them. Life moves the whole societies to come up with different concepts and different methods and different therapies. If you stay open, relax and let that life move you. If your ears are open and your eyes are open, in that sphere, Bob would say, you will hear the still small voice, which will tell you, go this way.
And that will be the therapy, which will elevate the most of the suffering. Or it will be the therapy, which will amplify it for you so badly that you will not be able to help but question and maybe get the breakthrough. But there is life behind it. The idea that there is a need that should go for the therapy or shouldget it right or wrong and now I, oh my god, oh yeah I have CTPSD but I've got all the symptoms and I do also test different modalities. I mean majority of the people who are in this room are coming from excess amount of suffering, majority, not everyone.
So we are all familiar with different techniques and methods. But did I choose them right? Did I choose them wrong? Thankfully, I did not. I did not choose to feel gratitude. I did not choose to be drawn towards one way or another. I'm relaxed and life moves me. There are things that maybe in a conceptual framework I didn't know, I missed out and maybe would be better. I don't even go there. This is a story. This is a story of another dimension of suffering. There are people who are saying, oh, this is a spiritual bypass. You should go and sit and pay a therapist for 20 or 30 years to avoid the concept of spiritual bypass.
Who is there to avoid the concept? Spiritual bypass is the presumption that I am the doer and I have choice and free will and I can get it wrong. If there is no I, who is to bypass and what? Now, if I am completely relaxed, open field of hearing, still small voice, moving with the energy, wherever the life wants to move, wherever the wind wants to move.flow, wherever that river of emotions wants to flow, and it always by nature chooses the path of least resistance. Relaxing and letting it move you is the best response to trauma. And you may find yourself in a bush in Peru, or you may find yourself on a workshop of Gabor Mateo, you may find yourself in a mental institution.
Who knows? The attitude of being relaxed and curious, life, God, show me. Where is that body-mind going to find itself? And I tell you where. Here. But the here will be different. Moment to moment will be fresh and new here. The concept of trauma, absolutely juicy, fascinating, beautiful. We all get high on it. But remember, it's still just another story in the dream. Presence, stillness, sky-like awareness is witnessing the body with its traumas. But it is neutral and free. The body is like a car. Car may experience trauma, you know, you break, you get flat tire, you can still drive, but it's wobbly. and traumatized.
The car may have a broken windscreen and there's no clarity, there's no vision. Yes, that's trauma. And now how it is going to resolve? Let's find out what we're going to be moved to do. I love the topic, by the way. But because it's just, you know, not completely with the non-duality to just dive into the details of it, we can have conversation over lunch. Do you want to add something? The only thing I can say is that it's complete surrender, isn't it? Yes. You surrender and you surrender the control that you think you have, but you're not in control. And the moment you surrender, this, the peace that that brings.
Is how we really are, who we really are. That's a big word for me, surrender. Yeah. For the meat. Yes. Yes. For the meat, that's the only thing. Stop trying. Yes. Stop trying. Just. Let it. Be the space. Be who you are. The space that doesn't really even need to do it.I have a couple of comments here from, oh yeah, we got Laura. Now Gilbert, you will never work it out in the mind. Absolutely. Never enough of reminding that. Don't try to grasp and understand it. Thank you, Gilbert. As Bob pointed out, the only way out of the mind is full stop. Pause the narrative.
Insight is wordless and silent. It has nothing to do with acceptance or rejection. What is, is what is, as is. Mind will generate endless narrative and they all lead away from right here, right now. That's it. See the narrative for what it is, because you can't expect the narrative will stop and will stay stopped. It's just disengaging from it. Seeing for what it is. You know, nobody says stop watching the movie or listening to music. Why? It's just believe that I am the one who wants to know. Thank you, Gilbert. And Sally says, I have started working as a child play therapist. It is amazing how play naturally moves children towards healing.
Beautiful. And also, same thing happens with cats and dogs. When there is a safe environment, and it is safe for long enough for the traumatic fight-flight.It frees responses to rewrite themselves. The natural openness and playfulness comes. And Gilbert says, who surrenders to what? Hocus Pocus. Yes. If there is any idea of I, surrender that idea. But who surrenders? Who? There is no one to surrender. You recognize that that idea doesn't even need to be surrendered because it has never been real. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's a great reminding by Gilbert. You are not the body. You are not the thoughts. Another way, so many words to use, another way of conceptualizing you is now.
Is knowing. Presence awareness. Life, life, but is, is, is right now knowing, naturally. The knowing is natural.Knowingness, knowing, always knowing. And I think that as you surrender to that which one doesn't even understand, if there's healing to be happening, the healing... Will heal itself in time. When it's ready to be released. It's not something that we can force. It'll happen by itself, but the concentration on aligning to that knowing is what will allow the surrender to be more powerful. And in saying that, the less in control you are, the more powerful it is, or you are. It's very contradictory. It is. It is. And I'll just challenge what you said about the less in control you are, the more in control you are.
As Gilbert says, Who is there to control? You are not this mini-me. You are not controlling anything. You never have. You've never been there to control.Take a look. It's never changed. I think what's different is the human experience. Human experience is part of the whole dream. This body. Yeah. Therefore, we are submerged in the experience of being in the body. That's right. But that's exactly right. It occurs in consciousness, all of it. Just like in the dream, just like in the dream. You go to sleep at night, you're looking into this dream, all this stuff is happening. There's seeming thoughts, there's feelings, there's action, there's this, there's that.
Where's all that happening? In one consciousness, yet it appears as many. When you wake up, you go, oh, that's just a dream all appearing in my consciousness. When you wake up here, oh, it's all appearing in one consciousness. And in actual fact, there is the only appearance, it's appearance which differentiates one seeming body from the next, and what lies behind that is the word. This is obvious, I love talking about this. It all, you know, God, it all began with the word.And that reasoning capacity for differentiation, name and form, which is all the illusion, that's it. And the key name and form is this energy of belief which goes into this I, me.
And that, if you look... Even in your experience throughout the day, it's entirely transitory, just like any other thought. It comes and goes. It goes at night when you're asleep. You lose it. You lose this sense of I. And you lose any sense of time. Time, I, me, all of that is all mine. They're all synonymous. It's all part of the same mechanism, this belief in the word, the form, being reality. The word is not the thing, the thing is not the word. Again, if you take out... If you recognise this, it's just beautiful, no thing space behind those eyes, those eyes, those eyes, those eyes, those eyes, those eyes, all of it.
Those eyes. Well then, well then, where is the differentiation, separateness? That's why I said blah, blah, blah earlier, because the mind is just blah, blah, blah.Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, yeah. Um, Where do you go from there? Yeah, I think, you know, I just have nothing to say today. Just blah. Everything comes out as blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I mean, I guess Bob just pointed out that, There's that this mind is just, you know, creating a story. The story is, believed in and then there's this apparent thing that doesn't really exist and Yeah, so then you're like, oh, okay. You just sit with, there's just this sitting with,the story, sitting without a concept, although there's no real person sitting, it's just It's just life.
that's happening and you can't understand that and put that into a story, which is what seems to be happening, the story coming up and then we believe in it and blah, blah, blah. I've just dragged you guys all along for absolutely, there's no punchline to it. Just nothing. Yeah, so it just comes back to this, whatever you want to call it, and that is, and I'm that, and not even that, just that. From the community here. And yeah, that's it. See that, you know, it is energetic. It is the knowing. It doesn't really have to come with the expression of the poetry or singing Mamma Mia.
It's energetic. It's the, everyone has absolute confidence in the fact of your own existence. Speaking from that confidence doesn't matter.This is the only truth. This is the only reality. And here we have Jyoti says, mind seeking attention can be in a way equated to notifications on the phone. They can appear important, but at the end of the day, they are just distractions. I love it, Jyoti. This is brilliant. This is beautiful. Yeah, but you can see how anything and everything, nothing can exist without attention. Any thought, when given attention, when given belief, when given life, becomes seeming reality. When deprived from the belief, it's just nothing.
And now Gilbert says, you have no idea what your next thought will be. See that, know that, that thoughtless reality of being, not becoming, being. And that brings about that. Brilliant and I love Veronica when you say you know in your words and in your own experience that you know the less of the control you have the more kind of higher power God or life drives you it's a good description the less illusion of control we say in the non-duality language but this is just a language because energetically you actually totally describing your experience and that's the correct every description is just energetically is right but yes the illusion of control we think that we have a controlBut the one, the we, that thinks it, is a believed in, unquestioned idea.
There's no one in control. There's no one blowing the wind. And that's the freedom. There's no one who needs to let go of control or surrender because no one had it ever. There's no one to have it. So it is a recognition. The beauty of it is nothing has to be achieved, learned or arrived at. It's a recognition of what is already so and what has already been here forever. And that recognition is already present. Nobody again, nobody denies that they are aware and present and conscious. That's it. Only the idea that no, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, there must be something more. That's just a thought.
Recognize that. You are only one thought away from the final truth of your existence. Just recognize that thought. Translated to Mandarin Chinese and discarded. There is no one discarding either. Now Gilbert says, even the statement I think is a story. Can you think a single thought? As Bob pointed out, watch the mind. See how it operates. Naked seeing has no story or narrative. Seeing is seeing. Beautiful. Yeah, that's it. There's nothing you can say. Ask the space if you are the space like awareness.There's no good or bad. Space doesn't reject something or accept the other. Doesn't have opinion, doesn't know anything, doesn't need to know anything, doesn't need to understand anything, doesn't need to work out anything.
And that is your essential nature. As your essential nature, there is nothing you need to know or understand. The mind that wants to know, that wants to, that craves for understanding, is not your essential self. It's a mechanical pattern. As Gilbert says, quoting Bob, see how it functions. It's completely mechanical. It's completely responding to whatever triggers are coming in the environment. It's not you doing any of it. How wonderful. Nothing needs to be done.to realize that you are you're not the mind the mind is constantly regurgitating like an engine running it's coming up with ideas and this and this i the thing the realization of what's wrong with right now or it's just here and now and nothing else but that That's nothing to the mind.
The mind wants to grab that as a concept and put it in its pocket and think, well, I'll just remember that and then I've got the key, you know. But there's nothing like it can't be reduced to a concept. It's just always here and now. And the idea that someone's there thinking it is another illusion. Bob said that. You know, just recall that Bob said the thinker is a thought. Actually, that there's someone here thinking all this is just another thought. It's just that without any thought because the thought wants to control it, manage it, hold on to it, change it or do something. Thinking that something has to change or it'll master some situation or get it right in the future or something like that.
But it's always just here and now. Can I just ask a question? Because, you know, sitting in this room now with everybody, there's an air.energy that helps, I think, me certainly, and I sense everyone, accepting this. Concept or reality or we're accepting and acceptance vibrates high but then we step out there And we step out there and we face reality. Well, this is also a reality, but out there there's another reality of, you know, newspapers and... Yeah, but I mean, we sort of bump into it face to face, so it's, you know, it's very real. And so I just wonder how you, you know... I just want to say that I'm...If there's only now.
If there's only now and time doesn't actually exist really, then there is no distance. Because distance suggests time from here to there. Yeah. If there's no distance, there's no other. It's all... Me or not me the small person it's all that and I am that so how you view out there to hear is the mind oh sure yeah yeah yeah but there's only that and there's a reality here it's the same thing There is no separation to here and there. There's no separation between here and out there. There's none. There's no out there. There's no in here. There is just now.and now has no distance or time or other.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what does that mean for you? I mean, what does that mean with your experiencing of being an other and here? I'm separate. I suppose if someone runs up my back like that, I'm the way home. I'll get tested. Well, it's the same thing. Yeah. It's the same thing. It's experiencing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's nobody experiencing specifically because I am that. The big I am that. There is no separation. No other. Yeah, but to attain that, you know. Nowness, there's only now, wherever you are. So why isn't the entire world aligned if it's that simple? It's an idea that you think the world isn't aligned.
No, it's not an idea. I occasionally turn on the news. I see violence, I see hatred, I see horrible, horrible, horrible things happening out there. Oh, okay. See, this is the content of the experiencing, right? So, yes, within that, within that,complex dream yes there is there is you know holocaust which is a story about people exerting incredible heroism and friendship and assisting each other and showing love beyond measure in the same dream there are stories of holocaust which being incredible torture and violence and all that within that same dream there is a story of news conspiracy theories, Pleiadians, Cassiopeians and all that other stories. Within that dream there is a story of past and future and history and modern medicine.
All those stories belong to this dream, but you are beyond the dream. Now, as you are here right now, you are experiencing higher level of pleasure, higher level of pleasure. When you find yourself that this dream has changed and now everything is burning, bumping and firing, maybe when you sleep at night or maybe whatever happens, the level of pleasure dropped. But the space or the screen on which that movie, that dream is played, it does not experience any level of pleasure or any level of pain. That which you are essentially is the screen, not the dream character which experiences pleasure or pain.Not the car which got the flat tire and broken windscreen and have all sorts of different traumas.
Recognition is, I totally hear your question. I had that question for all my life. Okay, I'm here in a satsang. It is all good. I get it. But when I get out there and someone offends me or I see suffering, how about the people who are crucified? How about that? Where is it now? If you keep prioritizing what is not happening, you're just training your mind to miss out on what is happening presently. If you put your heart into this moment right now, stay present in this moment right now, recognize that every pedophile raping its victim right now is doing it because you think that thought and prioritize the pleasure.
Don't rape those kids. Stay present in here right now. Then if the dream content changes, your response to it also changes and the suffering may drop. This is the thing, conceptualizing and imagining what I should do, how I should deal with reality, imagining all those realities, the reptilians and the cassiopeians and the playadians and the news and the conspiracies. It is just walking in your head, endlessly creating more stories. Yes, but they are not stories. That's true. You know, there was a war in Ukraine, in my country, in Poland, which I'm going to be voting.today for there is you know there's that many people and that much happening where is it right now where is it when I don't think about it it is not the content of this dream right now if if now I'm habitually overlooking this a life ever fresh present moment of right now I will habitually overlook all, basically, the awakening in the dream to the dream is out of the menu.
But if I see that this moment right now, this dream looks like that, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking. At another moment, the dream looks like that. This level of pleasure in this moment, this level of pleasure in that moment. But this is all content of the dream. What a dream. Dream is roller coaster. But I won't bother about what is going to happen in the imagined future because future doesn't exist unless I think about it. Other location doesn't exist unless I think about it. And when I think about it, I imagine it. So now I'm betraying this present moment right now for the imagination, for a daydream of what I'm going to be doing in the afternoon, what is happening in another continent.
This is betraying the present moment for the imagination. Bob has this beautiful quote from Ban Ki. Why?exchange unborn Buddha mind for thought. Exchanging unborn Buddha mind. This ever-present moment, which will never be the same again, for the thought. And I think we have, oh, you want to say something? I have a couple of comments here, a couple of quick comments here. One from Bradley about trauma. Trauma is memory of the past made real in the moment as thought. That's a good summary. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you, Bradley. And me is attached to thought to validate its existence. Oh, wow. Brilliant. Using the trauma to solidify the identity of being a victim.
Wow. Where is the me without the thought? Where is the trauma? When I don't think about it. Beautiful. Thank you, Bradley. And Gilbert says, it is all consciousness. There are no levels to consciousness. Higher vibration, lower vibration. Where can you measure anything from? Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. Yes, and Bob was also stressing on that, you know. The whole conundrum of conceptualizing, of complicating the dream comes from divisions. Divisions levels gunas he says every religion or every like a seed or source of every tradition contains the basic truth and then it got divided then it got divided into three this hundred and eight that and This moment, uncompromising, simple.
Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking. That's it. Kat, your answer to Rod's question was fantastic. It's like, where is it happening? It's happening in the mind, when I think about it. And the Siddhartha says it quite often in I Am That. He's quite often asked about the war.or in Pakistan or whatever, you know, going on. And he said, don't worry, you know, you're trying to change the world. Instead of trying to change the world, change yourself. Change how you think about things. Change about, you know, where's the war inside yourself? Where's the rape and the violence inside yourself? And, you know, it's like his answer to me about time and the French Revolution.
Where's the French Revolution? And there's some thinking about it. And, you know, at the moment, without thinking about it, there could be two warring parties of ants underneath us, killing each other, you know. The lion's eating the antelope and the antelope doesn't want to be eaten. There's seeming creation and destruction going on all the time and we pick it out in our minds and go to it and go, oh, that's terrible, that's spoiling my day thinking about all that violence. But where's it happening? I was asked, where's it happening? And it's always the mind that's where it's happening. And identifying with it. In the recognition that there's no one to save the world, change the world, make it different, change the past, change the future, improve humanity's outlook, in the recognition that there's no one who can ever do that, who has everdone that you actually the whole seeming illusion benefits because the entire illusion is in your in what your own consciousness so when you when there's a recognition that this little body mind is not doing any of this stuff.
There's no one doing any of this stuff. Donald Trump's not doing what he's doing. You know, all this stuff is just happening when there's a recognition of that and stopping to put the energy into those beliefs. You know, deriving a little bit of pleasure from the suffering of the going into the story of it, and there is pleasure in it for many. It's why it's done, because it's pleasurable, whether you admit it, you know, consciously or not. No, I enjoy suffering along with humanity. It's attractive, it is, but hang on a minute. Who am I? This is always an opportunity to do the investigation. When you find yourself going out the front door and being struck by all the chaos and the seeming suffering, do the investigation.
Look, can you find a reference point?boundary to this seeming I, this me, that is compelled to worry about this stuff, believe the thoughts, you know, and just to be really pedantic, there is no mind. There is no mind. There is no controller sitting there pulling the strings, flicking the switches, pressing the buttons. It's all just vibration arising and energy of belief that goes into it that makes it seemingly real. But it's all illusion. It's all part just like the dream at night, happening in the one consciousness. I'll just add one thing which Ilgus was saying before, because that's so relevant. There is no mind, and yet that spontaneously arising vibration, instead of going to the content of the vibration, If you are really, really curious, what is it entertaining?
You will see that subtle pleasure that Tanya was saying, subtle pleasure of attending to all the miseries and feeling, oh, I'm better off. A subtle pleasure of, oh, I'm so compassionate, I'm so good, I'm so loving. A subtle, just see, watch the mind, as Gilbert was quoting Bob, watch the mind, see how it functions, see what is it.attracted to see where the attention is pulled see where the attention sticks where it dwells you're gonna have better entertainment than any content of the story could ever provide i promise you just learning about how is that machine what it tends to do what how it entertains itself You will see not only how mechanical it is, how preconditioned it is, how there is no your compassion or sentience or any of it.
It's just a spontaneous arising in a movement of attention. You won't deserve any credit for any of it. But you are up for a ride because it's fascinating. Now you can't feel guilty if you do or say something wrong. You can't feel proud if you do or say something right because there is no you. It's just that movement of mind. Amazing. It doesn't exist. It doesn't. It's an illusion. Yes. I just want to say, Bob's a great story. You've said it numerous times. Somebody said to him, oh, that's all well and good, Bob, but you know, what would happen if you saw a guy punching a woman over the street?
He said, I don't know. I'll let you know when I see it. That's it. Being in the moment, you will have the correct reaction and response or correct or a response to whatever arises. Yeah, it's the mind that projects into it and also all the news items and the social.networking that creates this incredible story of things going here and there. Whatever you can do, it will happen. Whatever can be done will happen at the time. It's the mind which is making a story up around that stuff and projecting. So, you know, there is no difference between an apparent here and an apparent there. There is no here or there.
There's only here. I travel around the world. There's only ever here. It doesn't change. The faces change, the food changes, that's all that happens. Otherwise, just here. It's just a remarkable, you know, it's one way to show yourself wherever you go, even if you're just down in the horse or, you know, you're just here. Come on, give us a summary. Yeah, give us a nice summary. You have that gift for bringing it all. I have no idea what to say. Jaime is going to say something. I'm fortunate to be here. Here, here, here. I'm fortunate to be here.fortunate to be here. Yeah, thanks. Brilliant. Okay, now then, you go.
I'm fortunate to be here. And now. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I think today you spoke a lot about the screen, this screen. And what is this screen? It's empty. Like it's emptiness. It's space. It's your screen, it's everyone's screen, there's only one screen and it can't be defined or known or anything, yet everything seems to be appearing on it. And on that screen itself, there's no, it's completely, there's no beginning, there's no end to it, there's no... Before and after, it's a screen. And if you look, the first memory you ever had was on the same screen as this moment. This moment is the screen.
There's nothing but this. And in this screen, apparently, all this emptiness, it seems like it condenses itself into a me and a you and a world and people and wars and suffering. Everything is just appearing. This energy is appearing on this screen as all this stuff. And in that, like, you know,talk about trauma. And there is no trauma until this very moment when, oh, there's a thought of trauma or an experience of trauma or whatever that is, is always, always in this presence, is undefinable, unknowable. The word mind has come up a lot. And obviously there's no such thing as mind besides thought. I thought, what is mine but thought itself?
So, oh shit, which thought am I then? So what is that? Like how can I be a thought? If I am a thought, which thought would I be? I'm going to be the great thought, I'm going to be the shit thought, I'm going to be the winner, the loser, the hero, the villain, whatever you want to, you know, which freaking thought am I? None of, how is it? It's just nuts. And when was this thought? Well, when? Last second or the next second? Of the past or the future? Always, always now. I love Bob used to say, are you trying to stay in the now?
Get out of the now. Try and get out of the now. Imagine that. Get out of the now. Or get out of the space. Like this is the space. This is the now. This is it. And we're all here seemingly like all these different people have come and gathered in this lovely meeting and it's just it's all really beautiful to be here in and and yet there is no here the here is the space and here that you're mentioning is is the now isWherever you go, you can be lost. You can be underwater. You can be in a forest where you don't know where north or south is.
It's always here. It can't be other than here, and it's always now. And it always ever will be and always ever could be. And then, like, you know, what did we say? Some other things that came up was like surrendering and you know it's it's an amazing it's like an energy that appears on the screen it's no different to the the hand or the leg appearing on the screen and then there's a label there's a leg or a hand or there's a sense of I surrender or I don't surrender who there is It's all an appearance of energy described as a surrender or not a surrender appearing on the same screen.
So the whole show itself and any thought, you can't find it with a thought. No one found it with a mind. And no one can be, it doesn't matter what. Fan dangled words or descriptions are used to describe. I think it was best described by Marty today, like blah, blah. Everyone can't deny the fact of this existence. And this existence is, you cannot find a word or a label or anything to describe the existence of this and everything is appearing in this and it's so obvious and I think these meetings are a lovely opportunity to just remember what can't be forgotten because it'ssomething to be remembered because it's the space in which remembering and forgetting seem to appear in and yet it is always there.
So yeah, exactly, blah blah. You know, the experience This experience is that there's still a vibrancy in the now is this incredible vibrancy and energy and livingness. And I'm not doing it. There is no other. There is nothing. It's just unfolding and there's an intelligence and the kindness to it. When the mind gets out of the way of it, identifying with I'm doing this, I'm doing that, you see it's beautiful. It just unfolds. It's just doing it without you having to do anything. It's really, that's where the suffering ends because you're no longer identifying with anything that's arising. You may feel the inclination to take an action at that time.
It's all good. It always happens in the present moment. So it doesn't mean that you're inert. It just means this incredible intelligence energy ever unfolding. It's really, that's the end of suffering because you're not doing it. The individual person mind isn't doing that. It's just happening. It's magnificent. And you can't say anything about that.wonderful unfolding either. You can say absolutely nothing about it. No attributes. Yep. Indeed. Yep. Indeed. And it is actually perfect too. It's like that's why it's described as the great perfection or the absolute because there's nothing to take away from it. Nothing you can add to it, nothing you can take away from it.
It just is. It's living, it's existence itself. Is that what's called love? Is that what it is? Yeah? Yeah? Any label. Unconditional love, no conditions on it. It's just... Kind of. When you put energy into thought and belief, that makes it conditional. Yeah, you see? Yeah, when everything is love, there is nothing and there is no love. But we have here a last comment from Gilbert, who says, nothing is created. Nothing is happening. This moment is nothing happening. Just so everyone is clear, there was a lot of conversations, a lot of words that have been said. There was nobody speaking. Speaking happened just the same way as breathing happened.
And it's continually happening. There's no one saying anything, doing anything. There's just life unfolding. One big dance movement of energy.Thanks, everyone. Thank you.