This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
No. Like Christian's lunch. Yeah, and he tells us. There it goes. Tommy. Ross. Ross. Amen. Amen. Amen. And Bob. Welcome. And there is just a tiny group of us, so I do really hope we're going to be contributing and interacting and sharing, because that's what works the most. That's what's happening and is so highly appreciated in our Zoom meetings, because, you know, there are people who... Share what helps, what works for them. And that really resonates with others. And when they see that amongst the group, it's not just one speaker who gets it, because there is no one ever who can get it. But there are people who, to different degrees, their life has already been transformed and their suffering has already been eased even through a little things like you know in the midst of turmoil remembering that hey this is not happening right now in the midst of a story or a drama that oh i lost my job or i lost my partner or i lost my someone This is not happening right now.
Little Paul.pointer people have little pointers that really bring home the realization that this is a dream this is the this is the what do you call it daydream you know when I dream it's apparently it's a Mother's Day in Australia it's not in Poland in Poland it's another three weeks or so, two weeks, whatever. But everyone who is planning to see their mothers, the planning process is really a fantasy. It's not what's happening right now. It's a wonderful functional fantasy. There's nothing wrong with those wonderful functional fantasies. I think about my mother and then that thought causes me to call her and that's a wonderful daydream.
So the daydream of thinking and planning becomes a waking dream of speaking on the phone, which is again not happening right now. So all those little things that people share amongst each other. Bringing back what is happening prioritizing and putting the heart into what is happening rather than dwelling on what is not happening just for a heck of it check if we are audible I remember back a few years ago, it was cold out there, the light doesn't bother to come. Yeah, just... You want to say it out loud, no? Just mentioning that a few years ago here,Just a few years ago here, whenever it's a bit chilly in Melbourne, like the life doesn't bother to come to Bob's.
This is reminding me of the old days. I've been in the last few years, but it reminds me of the old days. Yeah, who knows? It may happen this way that, you know, one day, because Zoom meetings are so easy. During COVID, when we had to shut down the, due to lockdowns, we had to shut down the groups. We used to have groups at home three times a week. It never came back to what it was. On the weekdays, on the Tuesdays, Thursdays, You know, people couldn't be bothered traveling at night after work in the evenings if they could just click on the link on the website and join in on Zoom.
So we never got back to the home gatherings. And, you know, if people won't be bothered coming here as well, that may just transition naturally to Zoom or it may die down. Who knows? It's up to life what's going to happen, how it's going to happen. I'm still quite busy with individual meetings. So if the gatherings are there, wonderful, because that is, again, that is a beauty of the community, of just, you know, assisting each other and just expressing and reflecting the appreciation for the reflection. That is, and reminding that, reminding each other that this,isn't really it isn't really a dreadful situation where we are mitigating or controlling psychological suffering and trying to get out of the dunk and the madness of of of darkness but reminding each other that really what bob often starts with you are already that you already know that you are that you are that was bob's uh mantra he wasn't even introduced introduced to non-duality when he was with uh maharishi mahesh yogi and it wasn't even transcendental meditation yet it was some spiritual regeneration movement back then a small group and he was given a mantra so hum so hum that i am or i am that that i am i am that so that is often when bob starts the meetings everybody knows that they are everybody knows that i am i am that i am this is this is a common knowledge and this is a knowledge which isn't really a bad news on which we should just dwell in our misery this is a beautiful start point you are already life essence animating everything including the thought patterns and forms including the dramas including the resistance the resistance tohappening how is it happening including the self-obsession the constant narrative that oh i'm not good enough i'm not slim enough i'm not rich enough i'm not whatever it is that i am not is still the voice is still the expression of that one life that one life essence transformed through the patterns transformed through conditioned personality patterns but expressing the same loving care You know, like if there was a voice saying that I'm not enough, that didn't care, why would it even bother saying it?
And what is it that hears the voice? What is that space like awareness, that consciousness that is aware of that self-obsessive narrative? That one is that, that space is that which never changes. And the narrative comes and goes in it. And even if it doesn't go, even if it's yapping all the time, the content of it is constantly changing, but the hearing is the same. The listening, the being, that space in which it is known. The cognizing emptiness is always the same and this is all we all share it there is no separation in that everybody is aware that they are and everybody is aware of whatever the content the changing content is and that awareness is equal I had, funny enough, a couple of conversations.over the last week, probably more than that, with people who I used to be really strongly associated in India.
And India, my first guru, who is a beautiful man who is still providing absolutely wonderful service, but in a different role, in a different function. And there is a beautiful man also Indian origin here in our city who provides very similar service. And that's a service which is obviously bringing other type of people that gravitate and resonate with that. So the function of a guru, just like a function of a pope or a priest, or the function of a leader of the community, leader that I know something you don't know, and I'll tell you if you struggle with finances or with... Relationships I'll help you I'll show you and I will translate it for you from the spiritual perspective I translated some books to Polish language from that guru of mine in India I absolutely loved it that you could look at the relationship from the standpoint of just what's in it for me and from the standpoint yeah I'm the life giving itself to myself what a differentway of looking at things and because Bob did not really ever assume that role he was only interested in pure non duality which is a standpoint which necessarily reject all the position of leadership or all the position of I know something that you don't and I will tell you and that's what I'm drawn to do here and I hope this is forever gonna be this way there's no one superior there's no one inferior there's no one who knows better how to run the life of your body mind then the life essence expressing through that and if there is a question or if there is a need for a mentoring or guidance or therapy or counseling well life will find the way to provide it but this is not what this group is about here it is about the recognition of inherent non-separation therefore inherent equality of everyone Bob wasn't superior to anyone, even though his level of psychological suffering comparably to anyone else was non-existent.
So it was, but even your, if there is any psychological suffering, It's just imagined and it can easily be seen through.and it may persist out of the habit but again recognized as the perpetuated behavior that is happening within the emptiness the cognizing emptiness makes it makes it lose its sting The stink of it is no more. Even if that drama is ongoing, the cold case or the loss of the relationship or the loss of a job is ongoing. Now, this is what is happening on the screen. This is not about me. This is not for me or to me. It is happening within that which I am.
It loses its thing. And there is no promise in non-duality that the body will never get sick again, the body won't get old, the body won't die, or there won't be... Displeasure associated with whatever losing your pet or losing your spouse or losing anyone there won't be a displeasure associated with hunger or cold of course whatever the body-mind mechanism is conditioned to experience in life is going to be experienced in a way that is dualistic. The cold and the hot, the pleasure and the pain, the nausea and the joy.It's just like every other living creature, just like every other body in the manifested world. And this is what I love about the clarity of Bob's pointing.
Look at the nature. Does the dog look irritated when you step on its tail? But it does. So it's absolutely natural to experience irritation when someone stops at your toe or tail or whatever. Should we try it? Audio is clear. You want to try it? Yeah, you wish. Go for it.I don't have anything to say, except I would try to step on your toe. Does anyone else? So the meeting starts with Bob's, you know, it was always like, start with the fact that you're already that. And you spoke about that and spoke about the sense of presence and undeniable for everyone. But what is that?
What really is, what, everything is that and nothing is that. What is the thatness that is... Because if you start from that fact or recognize that, then the message or whatever we're talking about is a vibration, it's energy, it just permeates, it moves. But if you don't, then... Well, you're a separate person trying to understand some ideas, and it's just like it. And that may help in some level. I have no idea, because all I can say is that I know nothing at all. There is no nothing. The nothingness is that. And that is this. This is the appearance. And in that appearance is a body, there's a hand, there's a word coming out of the mouth.
There's apparent interactions, there's teaching, there's lessons, there's above, there's below, there's a room, there's cars. And apparently there's a world and then there's a universe.beyond the earth and all these things like every night they're just obliterated there's nothing at all like that people are scared of dying and people are scared of this but every single night the whole system the whole show circus manifestation call it whatever you want it's Gone. Empty. Finished. And then all of a sudden it comes into existence again. And then, you know, sometimes, like, it's amazing just watching it come into existence. What is actually coming into existence? If you break it down into little frames, and there's no little frames because there's no even time, but for the sake of, like, trying to explain something, imagine there's little frames and all of a sudden there's a leg and then there's a torso and then there's a head and there's a thought that I am or that this is or that there's a dean, a body in a bed or whatever.
And there's a room and then it's like you can break it down into the frames of a movie and just see each individual frame. But then that's a spontaneous explosion where everything seems to appear at once. And then, oh, that's me in a world having a life. It's bullshit. It's absolute bullshit. It's a great story. And then the stories about me having a life, a better life, a worse life, a suffering life, trying to get out of it, trying to get into it, trying to...find it, lose it, fix it, repair it, change him and her and the world and everything around and it just goes on and on and on and it's magnificent.
It's fantastic in the way that it's like sometimes I call it a circus because it's it is it's like such a comedy act. It's a cosmic joke because no, you know, to think that there's this volition, there's a separate little entity behind the eyes usually or wherever who's making decisions, who's making things better, who's striving, who's fixing, who's, you know, growing and improving and sharing and whatever, or getting into trouble and mischief. Or whatever, like there's no little controller and there's no puppeteer, there's no one moving the arm by string, you know, making it go up and down and moving the jaw like this. And making it speak words.
There's no control over it. Everything seems as though it's just this incredible spontaneous eruption of everything. And in that, everything is contained, and all the stories, and all the circus, and all the dreams, and the universes, and parallel worlds, and mystical realms, and teachers, and Buddhas, and Jesuses, and the whole frigging manifestation, and anything more that's conceivable beyond all that. appears.And there's no one making it. It's not appearing for anyone. It's just an appearance. And in that appearance, for most people, it seems that there's a seeming sense of a separate body in a world with other separate people navigating with free will and choice and living a life.
And that's just part of, that's the expression appearing in that particular pattern of energy appearing in that manner of me and you and him and her and up and down and high and better and mathematics and physics and theology and biology and everything. But that's the energy expressing, that's the nothing, that's the thatness that Bob starts the meeting with, start with the fact that you're already that. And that is that, expressing as all these things that I've just described and the things that everyone can describe constantly. That is the thatness. But it's not that I think the problem is, isn't it? The energy of belief somehow seems to go into those particulars and make some, but nothing can make anything actually.
So no one's making that happen and no one's making a seeming energy of belief make something more real than it is or it isn't. So no one's actually. lost. No one actually needs fixing or changing or improving. The great perfection is, what Bob used to always say, like, take, how can, this is the absolute, another way of describing thatIs the absolute, can you take anything away from the absolute? Can you add anything to the absolute? I mean, this is the display, the array, the whole show, the kit and caboodle, and there's no way in it or out of it because it is that. That is that.
Like, that is that. There's no... You can argue, you can, there's psychological suffering, whatever, apparently, but that's another description of the energy appearing as psychological suffering. That is that, appearing and described and labelled as psychological suffering. I don't know, I think we'll probably just shut up for now and just like throw the mic in here and just celebrate. Because really, like, what else are we going to, we can talk about ways of getting that, but like, you say something profound and interesting after. I'm just going to say something really interesting because you actually beautifully answered the question. It's not a question really, kind of a question, kind of a comment that we got from our online community, from Gilbert.
And the question says, what is wrong about right now if you do not talk about it? A simple signpost, just points. It does not explain.Nani details, probably a typo. And of course, you know, that was a brilliant, brilliant answer to Gilbert, because of course to everyone, because I do assume Gilbert that you know that by now. There is no one speaking. If speaking happens, then obviously that's what happens, just like bird singing. If the bird sings, that's what's happening. If speaking happens, that's what's happening. And yes, there are some ideas that, you know, things should be said differently or run differently or there should be no speaking happening.
Those ideas are to be questioned. And those are delusions that are very, very easily to be discarded. If you really look, if there is anyone with the choice to speak or to not speak, to show up or not to show up, to run the meeting in a particular way or not, this is really an invitation for everyone to actually just expand the sense of liberation from the thought, from believing mind. Because if the mind says, oh, this is wrong, well, obviously. There is nothing wrong unless you think about it. And Nisargadatta's beautiful pointer to ultimate freedom is that there is nothing wrong anymore. So if there is anything perceived as wrong, conspiracy theory, climate change, vaccination, the way the meetings are run, anything.The way people speak or not speak.
The amount of silence, the proportion. That is a beautiful just say to life, thank you. I'll have a look. I'll have a look again and again and see if there's any doer of any of it. Because if I mouth the word and say, oh, there is no doer here, but there are doers out there, well, obviously clean the projector. Because ultimate truth is life run by itself there is one essence appearing and expressing as every single pattern there is no doer anywhere even if you believe that doers out there who should speak or stop speaking or should do that or the other well again clean the projector it's the projector that projects the world full of everything being wrong there is a possibility of seeing the dream for what it is the dream in which there is nothing wrong there is nothing wrong with the fact that there is high tide the tsunami the volcano the holocaust Anything that happens in the dream is the way the dream unfolds dualistically and it has to unfold this way.
It has to be winter, it has to be night, it has to be day, it has to be summer. All of it is just as it is. No puppeteer like Dean was saying. You know, the world is appearing.No one has a clue. If someone tells you, I know there's no doer here, but there are doers there and they should stop speaking. I should do this. Well, again, invitation. The intelligence of life is just inviting itself to expand that sense of freedom. There may be some limited freedom from particular idea. You know, every idea that is discarded, idea that I should be vegan, for example, or idea that I should be whatever.
If that idea is recognized as just a thought, there is already more freedom. But how about the freedom from all ideas? How about realizing that every idea appearing in the mind is just a thought? And it's just appearing on the screen in space like awareness. And there is no one who needs to defend that thought. There's no one who needs to follow that thought, believe that thought, subscribe to it. It's just a passing cloud on the sky. There's no one. You are the sky. You are that no thing. You are that or that you are, the pure presence. That is total freedom. That's total boundlessness.
Not only is there no doer, there's no non-doer either. The whole idea of doership is just...It's part of the, yeah, it's another idea. It's another belief. It's another system of whatever. And I think someone else could speak. Yeah, whatever it is, it seems very complicated. But it's only one. We only see one view at one time. It's as simple as that. whatever's appearing That's what appears. So what's it appearing on?You just have to label it as consciousness or space-like awareness. Cognizing emptiness? But it's always just one, one view. That's the cosmos. Just a brief thing on it before I leave. You want to go? Just very brief on what you said.
As you said, like when there's just no thoughts popping up at all and there's just a view, there's no distinction between appearing on, anything being appeared upon, or the appearance is just... One view. Because there's no thought about it. So how, there's just the experience of, and no thought. Just. The thing for me that always hits very strongly is investigating time. If I get lost, if the thought arises and I can get lost in the thought again or pulled by the thought or the body sensations or anything like that, time really...truly investigate there is only now I travel for seven months in all those countries up in the high mountains in the ocean underneath the ocean you know always just now there was no separation from now and that time you know we If there's only now, how can there be another?
How can there be, I mean, the human brain has this thing that has this movie that runs about the story of us, but they see that really just as a survival thing. Life, you're everywhere. The movement and the expression of that, there is a movement, is, well, an apparent movement, I should say. Is ever unfolding, ever unfolding only now, ever changing, ever changing only now. And soSo, yeah, that thing about time and the fact that there can never, ever be anything except now, that is the most liberating thing. I am that. And so, you know, there is no other. This is, I am that, that I am, you know, that's just such a simple thing.
Word but really time is that to me an incredible pointer you know the concept of time and the idea of time and how we operate in time but um yeah ever ever unfolding um you know intelligence energy oh so beautiful yeah that's why i think there's no b only do That's just pure hair. The hair that seems purer. Yes. Yeah.I was going to say something. Yes, please. Well, I think it's interesting that we want to come back to this present moment, this sense of completeness, because we recognise the suffering. From resistance and from, well, there's all kinds of suffering, a suffering of change, suffering of suffering,you know, where we're literally in pain and things like that.
And so it's kind of like, so why are we kind of interested in this? We need to escape. We need to find something. We need to do something. We need to, you know, we have this, it seems to be some kind of issue. And this is the answer to it. But it's like some people, it's very difficult to make that real or to make that work. And just knowing it, just being told, oh yeah, don't worry, just don't think and everything's fine, is great and it's so simple. And if you're quite highly... Resonating with that, that'll work. But for most people, it's like, well, that doesn't do anything.
What's changed? Nothing's changed. But I love the way when Kat talks about sort of the universe or this life or whatever's going on as being a pointer and using it as a pointer back to... what's experiencing it and that's kind of like the release. So, and that, and our essence, what we are, our nature, our true ultimate nature that is, is actually quite blissful. And so peaceful and so complete. Nothing is required.yet where most of us have been addicted to what's the next thing, what am I going to do now, what's happening, going and getting involved with the five senses, just being basically addicted to that instead of seeing that all of that can actually be the pointer back to being, back to I, back to that completeness, back to the bliss that we naturally are.
And so that's when life wants you to recognize that, that all the agitation, you know, suddenly we realize that something doesn't seem right with us or we're annoyed about something or whatever, then that becomes like the teacher to point back and shows that there's something, some sort of chink in the way that we're operating that we can correct by allowing it to point back to where we are and allowing it to let that go. So a couple of things that are really helpful, I think, to do that, to let go and to get back when it's difficult, when it's a constant problem, is to breathe, just to have a moment where just take a few deep breaths.
Or just even one breath, like a double breath, like a... And then a slow breath out, and just before we react, and once we've recognized something's annoying us or something like that, then we do that. It's a really wonderful thing.in a powerful way and you notice it somehow takes the energy out of it and then so many things we can let go of in such a simple way or another way is to just put the awareness into the extremity of our limbs like our hands or our feet. So instead of, so we find something that's annoying us, like we're stuck in traffic or something, we recognize that's what's, that we're resisting that, and then just, okay, take the focus to the feet, and then into the, you know, and then into the hands, and then into the limbs, and then back to the core.
And somehow that, these are just two little things that might help. Just take out tension and make it a little bit more visceral. So as we come back to just knowing that we are, and with respect to time, you were saying, it's amazing if you realize that even time isn't. So you've always just... There's always just this being that always is and you always are and always have been. And suddenly it's like, suddenly you've got all the time in the world. And, you know, sometimes you might think, oh, you know, I've got to be, I'm doing this thing now and it's annoying me because I should be doing that now, wasting all this time.
But there is no time and so it's unlimited. So you'll never feel that again because it's unlimited.Nothing can be wasted. So anyway, these are some things I find beautiful and inspiring. So hopefully, yeah. Thank you, Christian. That was beautiful. And it's always refreshing to actually get the practical reminders, you know, like Bob always pointed out, hello, you can pick and choose your seat. Oh yeah. Is it okay? Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm gonna grab the sofas apart from this one because this one is gonna be... No worries. Yeah, we just got, just to put you on the same page, beautiful sharing from Christian and really building up on what Anita was saying about the timelessness of this present moment now.
And the basic pointer which Bob would always summarize in his brilliant one-liner, you know, have the five senses wide open and unfixated awareness. Five senses meaning, you know, there is seeing happening, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. There is sensations in the body are happening. The breathing is happening. This is all happening presently. In the now, in the timelessness of this moment. All that is not happening. What am I going to do tomorrow? What have I done yesterday? What they think about me, what they have done to me, are all existing in the day.dream or in imagination while the breathing is happening right now the my butt on the chair is happening right now the hearing the sounds is happening right now all of that brings that to that realization that is only right now and it's only here like Anita was traveling around the world and she was always here Yeah, the content of here.
So relaxing. So relaxing, absolutely. Yeah, there might be a different room in which the here was happening. Or under the ocean. Or under the ocean. Yes. In the air, in the hot air balloon, anywhere. The content of the here. The the decoration of the dream you know when you are dreaming at night you may be flying you may be fighting or you may be another species or you may be interacting with some alien creatures or some half your mother half your sister or whatever it is that brain associating the familiarity of the of this new environment. It's always here. It's always, this is the only experiential thing, the here.
There is always here and always now. Did you want to add something? Well, someone the other day explained it really well that they were lost. They got lost in the forest. Oh, yes. And it was a really lovely story. They started to panic. And they realize, oh, I'm actually here. I'm always here. Because the here-ness or the now and the this-ness.is always there no matter what. And it was the same. And you could say, like, I am, you could also say, I am now. You know, like, because I'm always that, that nowness describing this. It's the same description. And then you look back when you were five years old and it was, ah, you're now.
And you look back when you were seven, it was now. And any age, any circumstance, anything, even when a memory is accessed, it's now. Even when a projection of some idea of the future comes up, it's now. Or you could turn this around and say, it's this. There's no this and that, just a this or a that. Yes, yes. Different words. These are all just different ways of describing. Yeah, words are playing around, but it's always the same sense of presence. That's why there's terms like sense of presence or I am this. Yeah, and Dean, you know, I have a memory from when I was six months old.
I know because there was a fire in the family house. So that, and I was only six months old. And I have, the memory in that is the same. Maybe it's because it's always been recalled in the now. But there was no sense of difference of the I and that thing, you know. But awareness or consciousness, no difference at six months of age or 68 years of age, you know. But maybe it's because it is recalled in the present moment. Who knows? They're just mind games. You can't see it in any other way other than now. Yeah.No matter anything. Bob used to beautifully say, you know, people used to come and say, oh, we're going to practice being in the now and being in the moment and being more present.
Yeah, sit down and meditate. And Bob would beautifully say, try to get out of the now. Isn't that just brilliant? Yeah, yeah. Get out of it in any way. It doesn't matter if you're thinking about, you're fully engrossed in tomorrow or yesterday or a memory. It's still this now appearing and the pattern or the energy is, the appearance rather, is appearing as a memory. But it's always now. I remember having a panic attack a few years ago. And the mind was going insane, like, I'm not safe, I'm not safe. Never had one before, never had one since. And Bob and Kat invited me over. And Bob just said, look, Anita, are you unconscious right now?
Are you unaware right now? And I think, oh. No, I'm not. The panic attack is happening in the middle of awareness. Right there, right there. And it just took the whole power out of it. It was incredible. Yeah. It was so simple. So simple, so beautiful. It is, yeah. Hi, Bren, you have options. You're going to lay down almost. By the way, I just welcome Maureen. And what's a beautiful little...Girl's name? Anna. Anna. Welcome, Anna. And welcome, Brent. Pesto already did the welcoming. He came and said hi. The red cat is Pesto. He may come again to you. You don't have to be afraid of him.
There is another one around. She may come and say hello as well. I'm saying the cat's not actually there today. No, they're really sweet cats. They're really gentle. Yeah, over. No? Yes? Okay, let me see if there's any other contribution. We have online community with us. And a couple of more people watching. Now the last comment is from Gilbert and it does, yeah, oh no, it's actually corrected the spelling. A simple signpost just point, it does not explain. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. Yeah, we had a comment from Gilbert. And of course, Gilbert, I didn't say it's wonderful to have you with us and thank you for your contributions always.
And yes, it is a great point. It is so completely beyond language. The non-duality in its essence can only be experienced directly. It cannot be explained. It can be pointed to, but it cannot be pointed to.put in words. If it could, it would have been done a couple of thousand years ago and everyone would learn the words and all the psychological suffering would be out the windows. But it doesn't work this way. It is not. It is a non-conceptual awareness. It isn't what can be told or taught. It is your essential nature. It is not a thing that can be given as a packet and added to the me.
Because first of all, there is nothing to get. There is no me to get it. And of course, if it's not happening right now, then happening in time makes it an illusion, make it Maya. If it's not permanent right here, experienceable right now, then it's not real, then it is an experience, that is something that comes and goes. And very often the sales pitch for so-called liberation or awakening or enlightenment is that this is a state, it's a supreme state in which there is no anger anymore and there is no sadness and there is no displeasure and no hatred, it's only love, it's only cosmic union with the universe.
And it is a beautiful description of incredibly nice pleasant ecstatic experience that if it's not happening right now that's what it is an experience people report having that experience after taking some drugs or whateverIt's an experience. If it has starting point, it will have end point. It's not the reality. Reality by definition is that which never changes. And that which never changes cannot be an experience or a state, especially a state that is added to a me, which is also a state. The me is not there when you sleep at night. The me is not there when you are so completely taken by the beauty of the nature or so completely swapped by by a drama of a movie.
So the me is also a temporary appearance. That which never changes, and Dean and Anita mentioned that before, is the here, is the now. Whether you are two-year-old or five-year-old or 15-year-old, your experience of presence is here and now. And it never changes. Yeah, anyone could even look into the non-existent past because we have already established that time is only a mental construct. When Tony was saying, for Tony it is rather doing than being, because the being comes later. It's pure activity. Pure activity, yes. Do, do, do, do, do.There's still descriptions, yeah. And also this one's mind, it loves to look at science. And it's so magnificent that at the moment in physics, proving there is such thing as time or distance or space.
I think I'm really, you know, it's incredible. So that through the intellectual process, they arrived at the same thing. And the fact that you can directly have experience of that, not through the mind, just through experiencing the now. I think that's... Revolutionary! Like you said before, Kat, after Gilbert's thing, you said quite a good piece about, you know, you can't discard the detail, you can't discard those because they're just undistinguishable as well, they're just all part of the activity. And so, for example, we had this, you know, good physics teacher when we were 16 and it was so easy for the whole, you know, he was explaining how You can't get a perfect ruler.
A few hundred years ago, the ruler was even less perfect. And then you could start, maybe you can create a ruler, use matter to create something that you can measure in nanograms. It gets more accurate, but there's always going to be a more accurate. And that was just so easy for us to see there was no such thing as time-space, that there was only attempts to create rulers, or put drops of mercury dropping at the correct rate. But even that's not going to be, there's a time.finer way to create that measurement. It's just a measurement and a measurement is not real. And we all understood that easy peasy at 16, so I kind of get surprised when people don't seem to grasp that one.
But we just had a good physics teacher, you know, and maybe it was just... Or we had physical brains. Our brains were kind of wired that way, that that was just sort of... Yeah, I mean, all the patterns are different. They've all got different hang-ups and, you know, going on. And sometimes it's in the detail that a detail might pop up and then some hang-up might release and more clarity happens and more less busyness happens, more stillness happens. And if you've never ever believed in a free will or a door or, you know, needing to, if you've only ever sort of seen that things are just occurring, although, you know, I've had different theories about that, a mechanical theory, oh, it's just...
Matter and motion and then they crash and then that happens and then that happens and this is how the whole universe is. Nothing's ever going to have been different so there's no regret because you would need a catalyst from outside the universe and I'm including the universe in the first place whether that works or not. So there is, it was never going to be anything different you know now is like it is now because you know everything that came together but then later on somebody could comecome along and say, oh, no, but there's a whatever the next theory after mechanics was, which is, you know, something has a, an atom has a spin and it goes that way and then if it changes, the opposing atom over there changes, or they just pop up randomly.
So that's how this moment ended up this way, you know. And then there could be another theory in the future that humans, you know, pop up in human spaces. That also explains why now looks the way it is. But the point is, there would only ever be this now. So there's no regret for anything that might have been. That's just another enjoyable, sometimes stress-sparking activity. Sometimes a release creates a release. It just, none of it's to be discarded, like you said before. You know, it's to be dismissed or saying, oh, no, you can't get more clarity that way. Or you know you know it's going to be different for the different types out there and um But if you've never seen you having a set of rules to follow and needing to do things and needing to whip yourself on the back if you don't do it, then whatever's in the next moment is just only ever going to be what's in that moment.
And I forget where I needed to get lost a lot. It's related to...No, no, there's a... Yeah, I just made one of those things out there, one of those misinterpretations that we often have that makes it all seem too mystical and impossible, but actually it's quite clear. If I can remember this point. Well, there are no decisions. So like if you've only ever seen this moment of an occurrence of some kind of, you know, and then you sort of see that there probably is no ultimate pattern, you know, even if there is some ultimate pattern, it's still just the same stuffness. It's all the same, made of the same things, just energy.
So you don't need a blueprint, you know. Even if there was a blueprint, it was still in this moment, we're still just the same. And the point's not coming back. But yeah, if you see it that way, like it was only ever going to happen like this, and then only going to happen like this. this and only ever going to happen like this um it does mean that we there's one thing that we suffer with that we don't need but it's not coming back or something said before yeah no i remember bob some bob saying um some time ago that um somebody said oh yeah that's all well and good bob yeah that's like a lot of bullshit but what about if you saw a woman being beaten up on the street over there then what are you going to do yeah And it's a good one, isn't it?
He said, well, I'll let you know when it happens. I'm not going to stress over it now. So when something has to occur, it occurs. The action is taken. The thing needs to be happening. Yeah, it doesn't matter any which way. So when you've only ever seen life as just happening how it happens, it's never meaningful that something's needed to happen or there needs to be some kind of perfection or something will arise if you need it because those things don't exist. There's just no such thing as needing it to be one way or another. You know what you know the next moment it's going to be how it is what's the point of thinking it needs to be something like something you know where is that thing that it needs to be like it's just completely never going to even be anything ever it's like when people say oh you said brave coming from new zealand for like no income money whatever to like move here and um you know staying in youth hostels at the age of 46 or whatever with all these random strangers and no lockup um but umWell, no, it was just like there was a, you know, popped up, oh, it looks like this is going to happen, I think.
And then it was like, oh. That's going to be uncomfortable. There's a lot of like pattern here around this is uncomfortable, that's uncomfortable showing up all the time. But this is happening, you know, just, you know, what's this about it? It's not such a thing as bravery. It's going to happen. There's going to be reactions that might be fear and bunches of other stuff. But you have to think you're doing something in order to think you're brave. Yeah. Yeah. So another way of like expressing this kind of stuff is like, well, there's, like the mind is time itself. And what is the mind really? So there's no time.
So there's this eternal nowness that's constantly there. If the mind is time, what is that? So what we've been shown is a bunch of thoughts actually create time. It's a joke. How can a thought create time? It's not even possible. But yet the believed in the thoughts, and there's a thought, there's a gap, there's another thought, there's a story about this and that and the other. All of a sudden, there's this sense of time.So, but no mind, no time, like there's no, there really is no, so, but I think what happens, maybe what might happen is once it starts to become obvious, then the wiring, the robotic wiring and neuro, whatever you want to call it, but I have no idea what I'm talking about.
This is just another way of explaining things, might start to cut out so that there's no belief in a future of attaining, of seeking, of hoping, of wishing. The spontaneity becomes so self-evident all the time. That's all there is and it's all that can ever be. And always that's all that ever was and will be. And many people I met while I was in India, you know, people have had awakenings and then gone on to, you know. To understand spaciousness and things, they often find their memory starts to become very unreliable because they don't live in the memory. A lot of those thoughts about the past drop.
Which is an interesting thing, which I think might, you know, like you say, incorporate some kind of rewiring or something, but that is often a thing about memory. It's incredible stuff, this memory. Like, it's so unreal. If I ask you to think about your mother and I serve you this beautiful, warm drink while I ask you that question, all of a sudden you may associate this incredible loveBut if I give you a gesture to think about your mother in another way, you can conjure up all sorts of things. What the hell is real? What's real? Which one am I going to believe? Who's the believer?
Whose memory is so whimsical? And as I've said before, I came from a family of nine children, and we can think of or talk or discuss an event apparently from a previous time. Everybody remembers it differently. Yes. It's totally... And the only one that's true is yours. Usually, like usually. It's not. And, you know, the thing is the human mind has this experience of this existence here. It has these kind of slots of an apparent time and a history, but we can't actually live except anywhere now. There is a, you know, there's imagery or whatever, and we don't have to decide why that is. We don't have to speculate about it.
It just is. It's just now. You can only ever live now. There's maybe an accumulation, apparent accumulation or whatever that is. And you can discuss that ad nauseum and a lot of neuroscientists and stuff do, but still the direct experience of life is only now. Yeah, and the experience like, the only thing that's been forgotten here is like, I go to Bob's birthday party and there's people that I knew well a couple of months earlier from Bob's and their whole background.And I just completely even forgot, you know, didn't know where they were anymore. That's the only sort of thing. But, you know, it's just the package will come up maybe with a bit of freak out.
That's part of the package that's come popping up from wherever it pops up from. And, you know, a bit of freak out. Oh, that's not very good. You know, I don't know who they were. And then next time, you know. What pops up instead is like a couple of tricks to sort of make it appear that you haven't forgotten them you know and next and then there might be a pop-up where it just doesn't matter any which way you know and there's just the the you know scan and and nil nil result search happening um yeah yeah it's just It's just some packages of stuff pop up.
Something that Dean said before reminded me of what Douglas... Closer to the mic. Okay. Something that Douglas Harding said. Douglas Harding. That's right, your mouth is bleeding. Oh yeah, give a quick explanation of Douglas Harding while you're up your glasses. He was Bob's friend, one of Bob's friends from the UK. Bob actually helped Douglas Harding to come to Melbourne to give a couple of speeches.because he really liked him, he really liked that headless way idea. Douglas was a few years older than Bob, he died at 98, but they were the same age. Bob had some funny stories remembering dropping him at the airport at France Rolls Royce and locking the key and running gas.
Car but but the guy was really sweet so they they didn't know each other normally i would normally stop you know bringing all the other people into the meeting but because douglas was bob's friend let let him i think he can't near him too he lived in a big house in england or somethingYeah, so what Dean mentioned before was how the perception changes according to what someone else is saying. So this is about trusting what we see. And the stance that Douglas Harding takes is the appearance. The appearance is the, that's everything. That's what we're talking about as that, the consciousness that everything appears in.
Cognizing emptiness. This is what he says. It's a little quote taken from a book called Look for Yourself. And he says, the more steadily I gaze at the one that's nearest and clearest, the more it turns out to be the dearest, more me than myself, the resource that never really lets me down. The wide awake one that though homely and obvious and transparent through and through fills me with worship and wonder at the mystery of its self-originationWho shall set limits to the bright blessings that can arise from our growing willingness to trust what we see instead of what we're told to see? Yeah, how sweet.
How sweet. Everything you look at is your essential nature. And we have another good one from Gilbert here. He says the mind cannot divide reality. And yes, it can only seem to divide reality. Yes, so he says the mind cannot divide reality. It can only appear to divide itself. It does that through the use of words, labels, images and memory. Words, ideas, feelings and emotions are all transient. They come and go. That which is real does not change. The so-called mind cannot process no thing. So it adds descriptions in what seems to be an attempt to grasp something real or manufacture something real. A dream of being a person is just a dream.
And now he's paraphrasing Nisargadatta. Your problem is that you like one part of the dream and not another. And James says, if you...take Nisargadatta's statement, no one was born, then who is asking anything? Yes, and thank you both for a beautiful contribution. And just a word, yes, again, the descriptions and divisions that mind is doing, That is a good way to put it because there is no person doing it. Person is a dreamer. So if the division happens, again, some people may see it as the division and labeling and clouding the silence. Other people may have the heart open and may resonate. And that resonation is what Bob used to offer for 46 years of his life.
And that resonation through pointers shared in the group, different ways of describing what is beyond description. That resonation is really what we are all about. It's not about listening to the words. It's not about picking on pointers or labeling labels, labeling labeling or dividing the divided or judging the mind. Because mind is insentient. It's just a piece of software which runs. By life is always life is life behind every word every action every behavior there's nothing without that life essence nothing can live without attention or that life essence so recognizing what is beyond the words recognizing what is behind the pointerThe life, like Ross was quoting Douglas, you know, the one animating behind whatever you're looking at.
You're looking at the night sky, you're looking at the mic, you're looking at each other. There is the same life to be recognized. Whatever the mind has to say, label, word, divide. It does it only because of the presence behind it, because of the Sat Chit Ananda aliveness behind it. Without it, nothing is. Recognize the source. Recognize that everything that appears is real in its essence. It is only Maya in a way it appears. It's real in its essence. Every pointer, if you resonate, will take you beyond words. If you don't, well...Just got to comment on that before I forget, sorry. Yeah, he just said about the mystery of, was it the mystery of self-origination?
I might have misinterpreted, but because it might have just been a fun thing popping up. But yeah, even purer than that, there's really, when there's no thoughts arising, there's no such thing as any kind of self-origination of anything. It's just like you said before the view, you know, that's it. And I think you wanted to say something more about it. No, no. Naked awareness. Naked awareness. No thought. Just awareness. Sorry, if there's... Yeah, no thought, just naked awareness. So there's no object and there's no subject as well. It's just one.until some entity arises and there's subject and object and the world is full of you know, 1,000 things.
But when there's no subject and object, it's just pure awareness. It's all, everything's just one.You know, also I think it's important to note that I am that is not separate to mind chatter and body sensations and that still exists. That is still part of the experiencing and that there's no some change state. The changes that are rising, that all arises in the consciousness. So it doesn't mean that the mind's going to shut up and that, you know, all your bills will get paid and all that sort of stuff, or you don't have any more bills. No, life still does lifing. And there's no different experience from the experience of a ghost to the experience of a bus at the bus stop.
It's just all whatever. Yeah, but, you know, the expectation that...But there seems to be something that happens for all of us who've had those experiences. And we've all had them, I think, because it's a natural state. I know that I'm, you know, there's something that's witnessing all of that. It's not even witnessing, it's something that is experiencing all of that. You know, there's a consciousness or awareness where all of that happens in, not that that is happening within, you know. Yeah, that's right. So that's right. So when the, you know, for this one here, the awakening when the whole mind dropped for some days and there was nothing but unbounded consciousness, nothing.
Very little sensation from the body even for some days and then of course it all started to seep back in but having seen that at a profound level can never be unseen again I did years of meditation and yoga I mean 40 years never had that experience Yeah, never had that experience. So once seen, it can't be unseen. And it is the natural state. So we all have experiences of it. I know someone who's done like a lot of meditation every day for a long time, but I think it was during that, although he's been attending non-duality and obviously getting some clarity, droppings and clarity.
Yeah, it was in the middle of meditation that he had two weeks or a week and a half of that experience as well. It was kind of interesting. Yeah, it just can come from different places. Yeah, it can. That's right.You know, yeah, I agree. This is from James. Can pure awareness ask a question? And this is a beautiful question because this is, again, a question that kind of almost begs for differentiation between awareness and consciousness and all that. Is there anything that the pure potentiality cannot do? Obviously, it's a pure potentiality. So it has a pure potentiality of doing absolutely everything, including asking questions, including appearing as a dream.
But yes, as it vibrates, it appears to be the other, to be something else. It needs, it seems to need a human body. With the capacity of reasoning and the capacity of asking questions. So is the pure awareness ever asking a question? Not directly, but it is through the vehicle of that dream, through the dream character in the dream. It asks questions because if there is only one, you can call it awareness, that one is behind everything. And that one is behind doing and being. And whether you want to, whichever you want to call it, doing, of course, is detectable. And being is not detectable, but is undeniable.
I mean, if you want to deny the being, you still have to be here to deny it. And it will happen within the presence.that I am to hear your denial of being but it is undetectable undetectable but undeniable doing is totally detectable because it's transient so that's really two aspects or two ways in which in which that pure potentiality expresses itself it expresses us the Shiva consciousness which is the static aspect pure being undetectable you can't say whether it is there or whether it isn't but you try and stop being and you realize that oh shit you know I don't know how to do that I can't do that shit is still being that is trying and the Shakti which is the doing which is the asking questions which is discussing expressing as words as images as as stories as physical objects as sound sights light anything and everything one essence one expressing as everything vibrating shaping forming patterning I see you have the mind no I'm just holding it but but like you're saying like In other ways, like a thought or a word is a vibrating pattern with a particular tone and resonance, but a thought is a more subtle vibrating pattern.
And so a question is a thought or a string of thoughts. So it's really these, and these patterns, whatever, if it's a thought, if it's a word, or if it's a thought, the energy,vibrating at certain frequencies or whatever you want to call it. What is that? The emptiness, actually, the nothingness, actually vibrating. So in essence, no matter how profound and deep any question can be, it's actually nothing. It is completely empty and yet it appears as nothing, as the Shiva Shakti dance, as everything you just explained, as nothing appearing as something in the form of a question, in the form of a word, in the form of a string of logical understandings and concepts and furthermore, you know, goes on.
I was just going to add to what Dean was saying about questions, how when we're curious about something and then we actually get the answer, and then what happens? It's like... It's completely, it's gone into the vapor. It's like it means nothing anymore once we have the answer. So what was the point of the question in the first place? And also with curiosity, you know, like you want to see, you know, we see something in the corner of our eye and think, oh, that person might be attractive or unattractive or interesting or uninteresting or something that grabs our attention. We want to check. And then we check.
And then we get the answer, whatever it is, you know, it is or it isn't. And then what? Then it's back to nothing. So it's just like this, yeah. Yeah.Yeah, the notion popped up here that, yeah, really the way the perception here is that the bee is already in the dance. So it's kind of flippant obvious if something's dancing that it exists. So you don't need the bee. And then I think people, that's why you've just got the do. And the people like... Load in a lot of extra stuff into the bee. Oh, is it when? Is it consciousness? Or what are they? And is it an origin?
Is it a blueprint? You know, what's all this extra stuff? But really, if you've got the dirt, it's flipping obvious there's no void. There's nothing at all, which Bob used to say, no void. There is no void. You know, we're saying that, you know, we're not saying that there is a... Yeah, so I like that, wherever Bob got it from or whatever, but I like that was the only part that ever seemed to make sense here, like if you've been very simple. So he just got the dance and forget the bee. Who's the bee, Shiva, is it? Yeah, let's just go with the dance. Let's Sharky will do and just forget.
You know, you can't have a dance without. If there's only nothing in the universe, yeah, if there's only nothing in the universe at all, if nothing ever existed ever, then you don't have the Shakti. You know, Shakti is part and parcel of actually existing. So, yeah, so it's just the energy, you know, the vibrations and that's it, you know, simple. And I have a... You want to say something else? I have a comment here from Gilbert again. He says, being seduced by I am the doer.is the dream. That's a really good way to put it. Being seduced by idea that I'm the doer. I am asking the question.
I am doing this, that and the other. I am checking on someone or, you know, whatever it is. Being seduced by I am the doer is the dream. Who is dreaming about doing? Me? Is the me real? No. End of story. But of course, it can't be just vocalized. Yeah, me is not real. I believe it. No, it has to be really, really taken to heart, verified, checked for oneself and see if there really is no me. Because if there is no me, there is no story. And yet speaking happens, walking, breathing, seeing, hearing, all of it happens. But there is no me that takes any credit or any ownership of it.
Asking questions may happen. Changing diet may happen. Falling sick, getting healthy, all of it. But now there is no one claiming credit for it because if you really check, you really look, you go to the heart of hearts, which is not going anywhere, it's always here. And you see if there really is any need for any agency, if there is anyone that needs to do the heartbeat for the heart to beat. And the answer is obvious.There's no one doing it and yet it is happening. There is no one moving the planet around the sun and yet it is happening. There is no one who is switching
on the sun so it radiates warmth and yet it is happening.
There is no one breathing and it is happening. So the same way there is no one seeing and seeing is happening. No one hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, speaking, thinking, dreaming, planning, ruminating. There is no one even resenting. There is only an illusion of agency. And that is the dream. And thank you, Gilbert. That's beautifully put. Christian? No? No. Someone? I can say something. I'll try. Gilbert. Yeah, that concept of self is very interesting with respect because like I used to be this person or if one of the things that some yogis are recommended to do is to leave their country and family and go and live in a completely foreign land.
And so you can imagine if you just dropped off somewhere like you were talking about before and no one knows you, like what's that? Like did the people that you left really know you? And, you know, what point are you that person, you know, whether you're young, middle-aged or old or have these qualities or those qualities? Yeah, it's all just made up. But also with respect to the space thing, one thing I find quite interesting to contemplate is if there was no form, like if you imagine that everything is just space and there's one speckor a little speck in space. You only know space because of that speck.
But if you take away the speck and it's all space, then you can't really conceive space because there's no relationship, there's no direction from this or that. And so Kat alluded to this last week quite a lot with respect to interdependence and how everything is interdependent. It just arises, it manifests in that way, yet obviously there's no realness to it beyond the fact that this awareness that non-dually is aware and that's the ultimate or that's the reality beyond that or just manifestation and interdependence and dancing. The dance it is, you know, when you actually look, when you look without the looker, when you look without the sense of me, how does it relate to me, what I like, what I don't like, how is it important, is it important, how does it relate, how does it translate?
That seeing without referring anything and everything to the reference point, the dancing without dancer, like they say in those esoteric circles, dance as if no one looking.There is no one. And then that no one is looking through the thousands of eyes from the sky, from the oceans, from every single form. It's a big curve. It's a big brother everywhere and everything and nothing at the same time. And then you see without that referencing, without that order of importance, this is important, this is less important, this is relevant, this is not relevant, this is happening to my family or my country or my body or my mind.
Therefore, it is important. And that, to a certain extent, is unavoidable in the dream because the way the body-mind is conditioned, it is conditioned to provide the software, the narrative is conditioned to provide safety. And naturally, it also relates it in the voice of a commentator. It comments on danger. So straight away, there is an appearance of, oh, look at this. This is dangerous. Oh, don't trust that one. Oh, look at the government. They're after you. They're going to get you. And that narrative is just part of the makeup of the vehicle through which the life essence experiences and expresses itself. But when you see it for what it is, are you going to believe it?
And is there a you to believe it? Because again, the attention...I still habitually follow the narrative. But as Anita was saying, you can't unsee it anymore. And Bob was also using that description. It is not the same. You know, it still appears that there is a me engaged in the dream that is defending ideas and there is having preferences and favorites and likes and dislikes. That dream character, it still feels like it is me or mine. It still appears blue, just like the sky and the sea, even though it does not have any color. I like you saying the action can happen with the words.
What are those experiments? You mean Liebert experiment? I don't know. No, no, Kat knows about it. I don't know. You know about how someone did some experiments and found that the movement was happening before the... Oh, yes. Yeah, that's the thought experiment of Benjamin Liebert that was proving really an absence of free will. It was really just showing that the neurocircuits in the brain that are responsible for the action, for moving the arms or legs or doing whatever, the fueling, getting the oxygen, running to do the action, are already... Originating the action and the narrative comes half a second later to report on it. So it reallyis like a commentator the narrative in the mind that feels like this is me this is my thoughts this is me speaking it's just a commentator on what is already happening what's already been originated if the decision has arose on the chemical level in the body half a second later the commentator says i made the decision or i made a choice but it really is the way again this is in neuroscience which is another belief system it's another story another explanation direct experience is always the direct experience and you can see without even knowing the libet experiment that you are discovering your next thought.
You are not thinking your next thought. Your experience here has been a notion popping up and half a second later the words start to appear out here, like one word after the other and get heard as well. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Well, known, but not heard, but as if they're heard. Ding, ding, and they can even stop midway. But, yeah, so it's just a package and there's no way of knowing what comes first and what... Even if you see little lights in an experiment, I haven't looked at that neuroscience to see, but I'm sure if I did, I'd say, oh, there's a flag there.
How are they saying that? That's a leap there. I can see all the leaps and assumptions, yeah. Yeah, which may work if you've got brain damage and you want to have it repaired. I mean, yeah, it's all in context. Yeah, that's a good experiment. Yeah, it's all in context. But the things I want to recall, Ramana Maharshi experience, who was not in the...Well, he wasn't, his consciousness superseded the body directly where he stopped eating and, you know, looking after the body and then some sadhu found him and took him up the mountain. But later on, he came back into the bodily experience. And he was profanely in the body.
He helped build, you know, give directions for the ashram, Ramana Maharishi, the great non-dual. So, you know, he was giving directions. He was getting angry in the kitchen, you know, and throwing things. And he was absolutely human, having a completely human experience. But his spaciousness is what everybody talks about. So the human experience is not denied or not rejected. It is. So there is just something else which doesn't suffer that. Yeah. In that sense. Like conventional reality relative to ultimate reality. So we don't deny conventional reality. Could be. Yeah. So once we see interdependence, then we can see cause and effect. To behave this way, if you go and kick a wall, and you're obviously going to hurt your foot.
So you can't really deny that. That's cause and effect. It's a very simple explanation of it, but that's conventional reality. That is interdependent and definitely arises as a result of things and as what our minds are habituated to and what manifests.as a consequence. But so when we go back into the ultimate reality, it's like we're sort of dissolving it. And so the more freedom we really experience with respect to our sort of fluidity of mind and relaxed states and sort of spaciousness that we love, because it's our ultimate nature, it's our perfected and always there state that loves to be. So the more we are that, the more sort of comfortable we are, but the more we're locked in the interdependent thing and thinking that it's real, that sort of the more we seem to be agitated and suffer and so on.
That is the point of loss of suffering. Yeah. Knowing, knowing. There's a knowingness or beingness which doesn't suffer. It witnesses things occurring, but the suffering drops. The body relaxes, the mind relaxes. Also, the less suffering can occur while in the human state too. So if there's been a pattern, processes of patterns dissipating and triggers dissipating and stuff like that, like you know I know someone who has you know experienced you know long reasonable terms of no thing but but when back in the human space they're like they're fucking Nazi you know whatever you know very very extreme and then when theyThose who are, you know, perhaps more evolved in the dual sense, which basically means that, you know, in that moment a bit of dissipation occurred and the next moment, you know, some dissipation occurred of a pattern, a triggerable pattern.
You know, they might be, oh, bugger, that patent did that again. How annoying, you know. So, yeah, also the human behavior can be very different. Yeah, so this is just another activity that occurs and creates less misery. Which is different from that no misery when no thoughts arise. But they could converge there, you know, or whatever. Yeah, there's definitely... Yeah, but I think it's either binary. It's either on or off. It's either thoughts or no thoughts. So it's either reactions going on or not, you know. Yeah. That's more like a memory that pops up later, I think. But yeah. I mean, yeah, I know that sense of like, most of the time being pretty like, whoa, that's extra heart racing when that reaction to that person occurred and that word came out.
You know, there's, and I'm sure there's tiny moments in there that are in the duality and tiny moments and sections that are definitely the memory layers of no thoughts coming up during that time. During that, you know, during whatever.Yeah, but there's no, no, forgetting that because I don't believe in that anyway, it doesn't come up at all as an idea. It's just like the memories that pop up a bit after are of no thoughts were rising and this was the image that was there. And also then there might be a little memory of definitely in the bubble at that moment. There was no awareness going on there.
It was just, this is annoying, you know, there wasn't like noticing these things more happening.with a less, I don't know, fuzzy view. It's hard to say if you're trying not to make any assumptions whatsoever in your description. Yeah. You go, Dave. No, I think we just wrapped it up. Yeah. Of course, like, Bob would start a meeting, we'd start with the fact that you're already that. So we might as well finish with a meeting, start with the fact that you're already that again. And that is like everything. And that is seeing consensual reality or this kind of reality or different layers of reality. There is only, or the unconscious and the conscious, or being in this way or seeing things the right way or seeing things clearly or seeing things unclearly.
Everything is that. Yes, there is apparently this psychological suffering or this seduction that becomes a doer, as Gilbert mentioned, or whatever way you want to look at it. But it is all that appearance in that. And all that Bob was saying here is, like, recognise that fact from the very beginning. Don't deviate into the world of infinite. The play can easily absorb and seemingly absorb a seemingly person which there isn't one. So how can a seemingly person seemingly be absorbed into a seeming play? Like it's all crazy really.It's all fun. So just finish the last words. No, no, no. Yeah, that is actually amazing because it's not the first time today, Dean, that you actually answer or commented brilliantly on the question that you didn't even hear yet.
That is another statement from Gilbert, a question from Gilbert. Who? Who accepts the divided mind with all its stories as being something real? And that was brilliant, obviously. I mean, who accepts? Looking for the who is already a wrong question. Realizing that there is no one there and finding the evidence that obviously there's no one there who needs to or who is ought to or who can or cannot accept or reject anything accepting rejecting expressing not expressing speaking silence all of it is happening within that field that you are and we have bradley also saying when you do do do what you done done done before baby you are waking you are walking through the stage set of your own memory and not the ever fresh and i just want to say But again, Christian mentioned the convention reality and all that.
And it's lovely. Those are all beautiful, beautiful descriptions and lovely, helpful concepts, which are very highly appreciated. But the way Bob would put it,And this was so elegant. He was such a master of the one-liners. He would say, life is expressing through every creature in its unique qualities. The bird has the eyesight and it can fly. It obviously has the limitations, but those were their capacities. The tiger could create spots, grow spots or stripes on their fur. So it protects it. So it's invisible as a predator. It can mingle, leopard can mingle within the shadows of the leaves when it goes on the trees. And human pattern, life expressing through that human pattern, has the capacity to think and to imagine, and to imagine the future and the past, and to dream, to dream the daydream, the nightdream.
All of those capacities are utilized by life in the pattern. So obviously, exclusion of the limitation of the human pattern is a ridiculous idea. There is no one excluding anything here. Everything is the part of the expression of that field through the pattern. Just like, you know, when you have a small car, you may be parking better, but your visibility may be affected. If you have a bigger car, you may bunk the top of it over the bridge or something, but the visibility on the road will be. So obviously the pattern through which the life essence expresses.the expression if you are the bird you can sing but you're not going to be having a discussion it's non-dual discussion if you are the dog you can have a fantastic smell but you're not going to be again dwelling in the past so that okay go for it yeah yeah and and i would like to i would absolutely love to thank everyone who contributed to the meetings for keeping it alive and keeping it alive that was that was the wish thank you happy mother's day