Group investigation via zoom with Sailor Bob from 23 Nov 23

Only nonduality we talk about because that's all there is. Everything, everyone is that. Now it's appearing as the many, the one as the many, and still only the one. And it couldn't express or know itself, effort didn't express any other way. Because without that expression, it would be pure emptiness. And emptiness, they tell us, is the basic space, the phenomena, space. Everything is the content of space. There's nothing you can postulate or think of that's outside of space. What could it ever be in? So if, as they say, it's true that everything is the content of space, the basic space and phenomena, because it's a phenomenal manifestation, and the definition of phenomena is that what appears to be.

As long as seemingly appearing and appearing is not the actuality or the reality, it's only seemingly. And many metaphors point that out, the blue sea. We can't go down and get a bucket of blue water out the... And one saved message, new... And the sky, the clear sky, the cloud, the warmly day sky, it appears to be blue once. If you go up thousands of feet, the plane, it won't come to any blue. But it's all appearance that. And when we say all, we mean you, me, and all the content of space. And there is no thing that is not the content of space. Space is no thing.

Have a look, see if you can find a starting point in space. See if you can find an end to it. They didn't give it any shape or any form. There's no boundaries to it or no lines or anything whatsoever. But it is a content. It does contain everything. And space is no thing. The you and I and trees and flowers and birds and other plants are all things, different shapes and forms. And the one seems to be many. There's never been anything other than the one. And it has, I've got it still, it's a cognising emptiness. emptiness with the capacity of cognitive, of knowing.

And emptiness is form, the word tells. And the forms are nothing but the emptiness. Like a mirror, a mirror reflects anything that appears, images, and patterns that appear. I go up to the mirror and try and pull some of those things out. You realise there's nothing there, it's clean up. Only the last fact. The last fact lies something that makes it reflect. And images and reflections appear in it. You can't say they're not there, and you can't say they are there. And I've got coloured paper on the window in the room next to me here. When the sun comes round to the rest of the charnseward, and colours appear on the stairs.

And none of those stairs have got any colour on at all. But there's some beautiful colours in the luncheon and the perigones. It's what it seems to be. They appear to be and seem to be there, but investigated, they are no things. No thing are the trees and the hills and everything appear to be things something They are in reality just appearances and no thing, the content of space. That we've taken the belief that all these things we see, hear and think about are real. We take them to be real and believe in their reality. And if there is other and this seeming that we should call me, Now the idea is that the Me and the Other is not absolute, it is separated, it is divided, it becomes two, seemingly two, but there is no Other.

Two ends of the one stick, two sides of one coin, in a different way of putting it. It was a wonderful discussion a hundred years ago when you said there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes us happy. Look at the way you think, past and present, future, day, night, winter, summer, here, there, I know, good, bad, pleasant, painful. We're always thinking in the opposite. In the opposite, the words we've learned or picked up are doing the same in division. And the division is all in the language, in the words, seemingly so when we look at it in the seeing. But what you are seeing is objective.

Like you. That's what comes when the subject object comes in. Dualism. And the thing is, when we learn that language, when parents tell you a little Billy or Jane or whatever your name might be, you take it on board without questioning, I am the little Billy, I am the little Jane. It's separate. And then we learn more words and language and go to school. And so we reinforce that belief without questioning it. And that's what belief is. And unquestions of something. In the absence of reason, acceptance of an alleged fact, Without positive knowledge and proof, you learn words and you weren't born with any words.

And you didn't pick up any words until your capacity and reasoning developed as you grew up. When I was a little child, when he was born, for the first couple of years of your life, doesn't know any words. Hasn't learnt the reasoning, hasn't developed to that extent. And then when he learns words he still takes it to be real without questioning. Now I am a little Johnny. A good boy or a bad boy, thinking I'm a good man, I'm happy or unhappy, fearful, joyful. The words constantly dividing and separating the life essence that I am because the energy of belief goes into it, goes through that capacity of reasoning and we take it to be dualistic, me and the other.

And then we've invented a God as other because we don't feel contented with being this little I. We're told that, that's reinforced by the beliefs when we're told the research, the thing is a higher power, a God that'll look after us. And we don't even read the scriptures from properly because it tells you in the Bible in the beginning was the Word. The Word was the God. All things were made by him and there was nothing made that was made without the Word. I say I tell you be still and know that I Am is God. It's that sense of presence that's calling God in.

And then I tell you the law of thy God is one God. There is no other. Nothing other than that. All these things are there. We read through the ether. But still the belief that I Am and I Am this body. I am this mind, I am this person. A belief. When you look at the term, look up the dictionary, look up the term belief, what it means. An unquestioned acceptance and an unquestioned acceptance. Questions of some thinking, the absence of reason. Question, acceptance of some thinking. Question, acceptance of something and the absence of reason. Exceptence of an alleged fact, without positive knowledge of proof.

An alleged fact. People told me I was so and so and I believed that And go to school and the little kids around me living near this separate entity and reinforce them and the parents and everybody else around you reinforce them because there not that great many that amount to ignorance And they tell us that in some of the texts that know about it. They say that's what the problem is, ignorance. I don't mean that all I'm dull and stupid, I can't work this out of a bad life, I don't mean that. I mean simply that we ignore what we read, what's being told by us, and what we are ignoring is a fact of our own being.

The fact of that beingness, that life has, which is prior to any thought, any word, any concept, before the word. That means it's prior to the word, its concept, idea, images, and stuff. And we claim, I am in this moment, but I have the moment. Only they'd have a concept, words, ideas, images. There's only then a core mind if you can. And you look what you can't find. And we know that we say my mind, it's the same as we say my body. You know you're not the body, you're not the car, my car, my coat, my house, my mind. So you're not the car or the house, maybe you're not the mind or the body either.

And they tell us also that the false... Can not stand up to investigation. Can not stand up to investigation. All these things are there. I read them many times and try to look between the words or past the words and to see what we think or try to believe, like some concept of what we actually are. But again I point out nonduality is one without a second, not two, not two at all. But there can't be a me without the other. There can't be the good without the bad. There can't be the illusion without the pain. The happiness without the sadness. So, nothing can be known excepting, and this is related to something object.

So look at these words we've got. See that the word itself is not real. Take the word water. Try and drink it if you can. See if that word is real. The word water is not the water we drink. The word fire is not the fire that will burn you. I and the word, have over the word I or me. And see if you can find anything as you can say this is what I am. Well that's how an expression, a sense of presence, expresses as the thought I am. It's just a word, just a concept. I am-ness is the sense of presence. You know you are present right now.

You don't need to say the word I am present. You are aware that presence is there. This awareness is present. It's happening right now. This being, knowing and loving to be is present. It's happening right now. We put all these words into the label on and we create all sorts of stories with the word. As they turn them somehow excited, they walk them out and the kids teach them fairy tales. They have a good morrigan, but every story begins with once upon a time. And ends with that, they lived happily ever after. A story, made of words. Because when you look at time, time is only another word.

Investigate that moment because that's when they sell us also. The false cannot stand up for investigation. Test these words out that you've taken with you. Who or what am I? Now look at that and say, investigate and say, I was not this body. I am not this moment. I am life itself, present, aware, this presence-awareness. As if that presence wasn't there, the opposite of life which is death would be there. And there can be life without death and there can be death without life Because presence the basic space in which everything appears in space is known thing that hasn't got any shape. Can't find an end, but beginning to a try and pinpoint and see where space begins.

You can't say it begins here or begins there. There's a little doubtful in the big experience. They tell you it was a big bang or something like that. But it's no thing. And if it's no thing, and the thing has some size and some pattern shape, it's one of them. It couldn't be there unless the opposite was there. And we can't be one without that same indivision, good and bad, pleasant. It just is. And there is that knowing that it is. That's another way they put it, being, knowing and loving to me. No one here is not they. Being means life. Breathing, your heart's beating, ear and fingernails growing, food's being digested, blood's causing around the body.

That's seeming happening and going on right now. And there's a knowing of that, a sensing or a knowing or a feeling or whatever you like to put it. Put words out, we lose it. But just as they say what is, just that is what is. The outside here, the honest, daylight going on towards dark, what's happening there? It's just that the earth is rolling around the sun. It's facing the sun now, it has been since this morning. It's been rolling around, comes in right in the midday This was a well being day at the end of the afternoon when it was getting late. But on night it disappears, the Earth hasn't gone away.

Or the sun hasn't gone away. The Earth just rolled around the face from the other side. Which wasn't available to us from this side looking at the zero. The other side was in dark for me. So there's no big daddy up there rolling the wheel, turning the wheel, rolling sun around. It's happening. The seasons are coming again, the tide's coming down. Everything is happening. Put it down, if you like, to life. It's not going to tell you there's only life. It's all there is. So the root, life, everything is that life. Without the life, there couldn't be anything at all. Again, everything and the no-thing.

Nonduality, just the one-essence. He says there's only life, nobody lives on it. And he says life lives on it. And out of life more life comes. And you see that and recognise that. Eat something as life wants and feed on, get the sustenance out to create more life in these batons of fire. The energy from the sun and the water and the earth proceeding and that'll move things in that seed and it'll form into a tree, a flower, a bush. Our parents come together and the sperm and the ovum to bob as a goo which are suffused with life. And when they come together, what happens?

That life, the energy of them being together, forms the little embryo, the little foetus which is what you are today. And you don't remember your birth, you can't remember your birth. People say they remember it, create a story, but you can't, because you didn't have any words when you were a woman. So how could you remember something when you didn't have words for it? And it happened, and it's still happening now. We've got all these words and creating all sorts of comments. It's the words, thought, feeling and emotion. It's how they express, just the same as the functioning in nature. The steam water will light us.

Another way is like steam is condensed water and the radiation of the sun and the sun is radiating with the light. Whatever it is, the literature, finally, it comes out and that lights up the world. And that life, light of life, and the memory of George about two, two

And then the birth is attached to the cord of the nunna. When that's the life coming into him through that cord, where's that cord attached to? The umbilical cord? They call the soul a kliqsh. Why would they call it that? So, Allah means the sun and the sun gives life to the earth. And the earth, the light coming into that body through the mother, through the God, it's coming through that radiation around the body and the light, if it's in darkness, tries to find a way to shine.

And it does. Where's the light of life excluded out of you? Isn't it out of your eyes? The light in your eyes. It's I tell you that in the songs. The love light in your eyes. The light of life. It's in the Bible that your light so shone before men that they could see your good work. Glorify that life is which is within you. They call the Father. Recognize that light, be warm towards that light, and love that light, because that's what life is, it's love. And they tell you that God is love, if you like, because of that. And if God is love, love must be God, because I love too.

So there's love in each and every one of you, and you've had a taste of it, and there's always a little bit there, which seems to be normal, doesn't it? Turn into it. Stay with it, recognise it, and see how your life changes then. See what happens to all the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the remorse, the jealousy. You can't stay with it. You can only stay with it if you're reinforcing the belief that you are this person, which those who have corrupted over the years and quite traditionally say you're a sinner. You've got to meditate, you've got to do this, you've got to do all this service to realise and recognise your true knowledge.

You ask yourself what's wrong with me right now if I don't think about it, and you realise you can't say anything at all about the thought, But you also realise that when there's no word there, no thought, like in deep sleep, you haven't disappeared, it's not the end of it. That life is still there, whether it's running through the brain or whatever. The life is constantly and ever with breathing and beating your heart, going your hair and finger down, rolling the earth around the sun, causing the seasons to come in and out, the tides to come in and out, to have us to fall and blow up, disappear and more.

It's continuous, pure being, spontaneous, natural, effortless. Put the concepts on it, the word on it, and the worst one we can think of, after all, I'm only human. Put the love on it, the breath. Limitations on ourselves, but believe me, we are human beings. You're certainly being, you can't negate that. And you're knowing that being. And you're loving to be, you don't want to be dead. We call ourselves a human being to try and describe ourselves as something. And we call Godness and praise back. We believe that this higher power is greater than us. It's forming all these patterns, shapes and forms, not realising it is the very life of you that's never changed.

Patterns, shapes and forms are appearing on it and in it, and it's still only the one. We separate ourselves from the absolute. It's absolute with the right perfection. We separate ourselves as a human being. Oh God, the supreme being, we call ourselves the human being. Take away the label supreme. Take away the label human. So what does that leave you? It leaves you as pure being. Can you negate that? Try and negate it. Try and tell me you're not being. Or try and tell yourself you're not being. That beingness wasn't there. It wouldn't be a... it'd be a corpse. It'd be the end of you.

You'd be back in a space like no other. Empty. When you investigate it all and recognise the truth, and that's what they tell you, know the truth, and the truth will set you free. That's where the freedom, peace and joy go. We think we've got to be happy, we've got to be peaceful. But what do they tell you in the scripture I tell you you can never find peace of mind The peace is when the mind is not When you're in deep sleep and you're not dreaming, there's peace there, isn't there? And if you pause the thoughts for a little while, the peace is there.

But when you try to get to it, repeating mantras and doing this and doing that, it might obscure it for a bit, it might be so bad, but it's still there. So that pure being is how they express it. Being, knowing and loving to me. You're being right now and you're knowing that and you love to be. Translate that into it was existence, consciousness, this. Existence is being and you're not. You're not, you have to know your existence right now. And you're not unconscious right now. You're aware, you're not unaware. And you don't want to be dead right now. Happiness and loving to be, you want to be.

And the other two factors are name and form, name and root. The name is the body and the root is the mind. The name is the... well I won't leave that room all the way, but anyway. That's what they tell you, body-mind. So the body-mind, they'll tell you, is illusion. It's illusion, it's only appearance. As I say, we take the sea to be blue sea but the water is not blue. We take the sky to be blue, it's not blue. We take the water in a mirage to be blue. We've got all sorts of concepts about things which we take to be real. When you investigate them and see things are not as they seem to be, These are not as they seem to be.

You heard that statement. Things are not as they seem. And it's true, they are. But they are the one life, the one essence of vibrating that needs something to express through. Because in its unicity, in its oneness, no beginning, no end. It couldn't say anything about itself or know itself, do anything at all. There are pattern shapes and forms to express there and each pattern is a unique expression. Some of the patterns are knowing more than others because the animals have got no words, the birds have got no words, but they communicate through sounds and that. And seeds in that haven't got any words but through the light of sun and the energy that's in that enables them to sprout and grow flowers and fruit together.

Life is constantly there, life lives on life and out of life my life comes. And that's what Christ said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself, he wasn't, he was talking about that sense of presence, which is the same sense of presence which is with you right now, with me and everything else. I am and you could say the same thing as I am that life I am the life go to that sense of presence reckon them by that it is the truth and as they say abide as that or let it rest is uncontrived Singularity is one.

We're not contriving any concepts or words to disguise it or lose sight of it or obscure it. And that's what the words do. They obscure our true nature. Be open and let that light shine through. And really, Nisargad puts in Yambirbi a dream he called the world. He says, stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Let the dream happen. Your concern is you love one part of the dream, not the other. And that's it. I try to make the dream happy when we don't like it very much. He says love all or with none of it. Don't fight with it. Don't argue with it.

Just leave things be as they are, as is. And the rest will be done for you. And don't you see that? What were you doing about growing in the womb? What were you doing about the sperm they have in the leg? You had no idea or concept at all about it. But it knew that essence of your art was the knowing. The knowing was the realising or recognising and it knew what to do. It's growing you, it's still growing you right now, breathing and beating hard. So we need to be as close to it as possible by relaxing into it I'm trying to work it out, I suppose, because that's obscuring it.

The thought, the thinking, nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so associated. And that's the only way we can think, in pairs of opposites. Thought is relaxed, resting. As it says, let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. If it's not going well, it is. It becomes the singularity. Uncontrived. You're not contriving any concepts, thoughts or ideas about it. And that's what they tell you in Buddhism. The great affection is non-conceptual awareness, not conceptualising and driving anything at all. That's what it stays in its perfectness. And now it's what I call absolute. It is absolutely all that there is. You can't add anything to the absolute, you can't take anything away from it, or it wouldn't be absolute.

Same with the perfect, you can't take anything away from the perfect, you can't add anything to it, it wouldn't be perfect. There were words to describe it. What if you recognise that you are the absolute? If you are the absolute, nothing can be added or taken away from you. Is there anybody who could be superior to you? Wouldn't be absolute if there was. Is there anybody who could be inferior to you? Couldn't be. And what would you want about a person? See, all the world's problems, in the recognition of that, how are they going to disappear? And how can we chase them around, trying to take this one down I'm watching the gym, they don't take you down or fight with this one or that one.

You think he's better or he's worse. They say that rest in its uncontrived singularity. It isn't singular. It's in that singularity, it's spontaneous presence-awareness. And it's transient. That's what spontaneity is, transient change, constant. Time is a mental concept. When you look at the time, it's duration. Is there a past? If you don't think about it, if you look at that and see without a thought, is there a past? Can I live in the past? Well, try and live yesterday. And that's why a lot of your previous life is only parts that you can remember now. It's gone, it's finished, it's done with. Some which are necessary can be recalled, but others we just keep there and get locked I think we've all come into it and caused ourselves lots of trouble.

This future, try and anticipate and imagine the future. That's what we're doing, we're imagining and anticipating the future. Nobody can live in the future. You can anticipate what you're gonna do when you leave this meeting. Imagine it, it might happen, it won't be. Thoughts will be coming up. And everything in the future and the past will be in the end, they won't. But what about this now? I'll say, recognize you're right now, you are. As soon as I've said that, it's gone. But it's there again, and it's gone again. It's got no duration. And that's all the time is, is duration. Sticks around. And spontaneity.

And that's all there is, just... And vibration. I wonder what they call, Sama or something like that, and the way with the metatron, vibration. I don't know. It's constantly and ever spontaneous. Recognise that and recognise the life that's going on and without putting all the concepts on and problems free of the beliefs and anxiety. And I sense wellbeing here, being well. Nothing wrong. I was enjoying a sense of well-being, of California, of being happy, of being contentment, because I was not being disputed or argued. And the sensations express through this pattern called the body, thought, feeling and emotion. The thought will come up, And have it there for a little while and it'll become a sensation, a feeling.

And that feeling will be related to some previous event we might have. Pin sticking in here or something like that should go to where the sensation is defined pain try to do something about it you want your thought you want an argument or anything at all the sensation will come up and then that sensation the feeling will come up which we label as a pain unhappiness or whatever it is that coming up Well, we've got the different levels of fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, jealousy, envy, all these psychological problems are all sensations or feelings that have been fixated on and stay with you. What happens? As soon as they come to that feeling and becomes the fear and anxiety, that becomes emotion.

Anger, fear, depression, guilt, unhappiness. And what's emotion? Just a vibrating pattern of energy, moving, in motion. That's what I call emotion, the feeling of emotion. The guy, like the snake and the rope, is a good one to say. The guy steps out of his cabin on a dark night, it's wet, been raining, and he stands on a wet piece of rope. The rope rolls under his feet and he couldn't see it today, so he figures he's trodden on a snake. And immediately the thought comes in and goose pimples get up and the hair stands on end and the fur rushes into his head and he feels the servant's bite and he's in great feeling or happiness about it.

And somebody comes out and shines a torch at him. Look, it's only a piece of wood. Well, immediately he gets a sense of relief. Not so. It doesn't have to be an emotional man. The fear and the trembling don't die down straight away. Because they're physical. Because it's been there long enough to cause a physical thing. Become physical and cause a problem. And how many thoughts do you have like that? You see through them straight away. Something on, you know. And you let it go. What about the others? The Jyotish terms? They can hang around for days, weeks, years, and beat the hell out of you.

What's the other word? That's what we do. It doesn't have to be that way. Anyway, That's about it. I want to go there and recognise this and taste it and I hope Albert's used better terms than I have. And somebody there that's not recognising so much might hear what you say and resonate with it, where they won't hear what I'm saying. And that's how it's passed along, by one recognising it and coming up with that. You're open and understanding your whole brain cognitively. And they call it the cognising emptiness. And the Buddha told you that when he said emptiness is form. It's that emptiness that's doing the cognising and it's forming all this manifestation.

Emptiness is formed, he tells you, the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. So you and I are formed and if you don't want to believe what I've shown, believe what he's said. You won't want to believe him either. I see it for yourself that emptiness is small and small is emptiness and you are that cognising emptiness, the pure intelligence energy, intelligence energy, the activity of knowing. Intelligence is knowing. And all this manifestation is not only merely your accidental patterns, they're all All this intelligence, intelligence ways, body, the trees, the flowers, the birds are intelligence. And knowing, in other words, and knowing is energy and activity.

So when he talks about intelligence, the activity of knowing, it's another way of putting what you truly are. So away you go. Hi everyone, so on that note, you being Intelligence Energy, would you like to maybe elaborate or add something or ask question or tell us how you're going? I think we have the old team, everyone been here before, so you know the format. It's just enough to, oh no, maybe there is a new name. So welcome. Yes, so you either put the hand up or just unmute. And if we see, I see Laura is unmuted. Laura, would you like to start us? Yes, thanks Kat.

Thanks Bob. That was great as always. And I don't really know that I've got anything that I can impart to anyone in terms of wise words, but I just,

It's just such a marvelous, wonderful, exquisite, unbelievable, joyous, fantastic scene. It's just the most amazing gift. Bob, so wonderful, you know, and Kat to have been able to have this time with you guys and to have the deepening to occur with each meeting that I attend. And yeah, it's I was just the thought crossed my mind, I wouldn't have been good to experience this or to have found this when I was 20. But it's fine. I found it exactly when I was meant to find it, you know, and for me, the pain had to be so bad for me to be able to humble myself enough to be able to hear the truth, you know, to really, really hear it.

I had spiritual awakenings previously, but this is it. This is it. I just hadn't suffered enough to get to it. And now I have, and so then I can only be grateful and be blessed by the suffering that I've had to incur to have the truth set me free. So that's me just remembering how wonderful it is to swim in it when I remember when I'm awake that I'm just swimming in it. You know, it's beautiful. Yeah, beautiful to just look back and see that nothing could have unfolded in any other ways. And it wouldn't be better if it happened earlier or later or before or after.

No, it's pure perfection. It really is, it really is. Yep. You're a great gift, both of you, to us. A great gift. Thank you. And by the way, it's warmer now. You could pop in again. I could too, I could too. I'll just have to save a few more pennies, but I could. Yeah. I'd love to, I just really wish I was closer quite honestly but I don't think you guys are going to relocate and but yes I know I will I will definitely come and visit again I have to. Yeah, it's been a hot day. Has it been really hot down there today is it?

Yeah it was 27, 28 degrees. Wow. That's hotter than it has been here even, so there you are. So that was me, just wanted to say how wonderful it all is. Thanks. Beautiful. And the great part of it is even if it's not, you know, objectively wonderful according to a social standard of wonder, the freedom is still wonderful. It's actually amazingly freeing to go through challenges in life and not take them personally. To witness your own character defects and not beat yourself up. I mean, again, the defect is a social sort of convention, but witness anything that arises pleasant and uncomfortable and all of it.

And just be free in everything and see the divine beauty in everything, even if there is pain or discomfort. Because if that body-mind responds in a way that may not be whatever, wise or appropriate or whatever, it is the body-mind responding to the environment. It doesn't mean I am not good enough, it doesn't mean I am deficient. No, it's just the conditioned behaviour that is exhibited and is witnessed in the presence that I am. So in a way, Freedom has always been there, but in that field of knowing, in that field of freedom, there was illusion of self claiming the bondage or claiming anything. And now, if that self is disbelieved, there is nothing standing in the way of seeing that unfolding, spontaneous unfolding in a way that is light, even if it's uncomfortable.

Even if it's a back pain or whatever, health challenge or interaction with other people that may be less than ideal. Even that, in that discomfort or displeasure, there is freedom, that it is not personal. That it's not that, like Bob says, there may be a God that, you know, he's unjust, he's speaking on me, why am I a victim? But I see Conor is unmuted, would you like to jump in Conor? Hey. Hey guys. Great to see you. Yeah another beautiful talk from Bob and really liked what Laura said before as well and it kind of spurred me to talk I suppose I haven spoken for a few weeks because I think despite you guys infinite patience with my thousand queries and clarifications The point that really kind of overrode everything of Bob's was just to relax into it.

And that's kind of taken over everything now. And it's like I honestly can't even remember pretty much any realization I've had, and there's been like thousands of them. And I don't really care. And increasingly, you know, what used to be maybe I would talk to people about this and I would talk about a realization I had, but increasingly it's just like everything's all good, you know. Maybe it seems to just be increasingly coming across with just my presence potentially or Just the fact that I am and just want to express my immense gratitude to you both for your part in this, whether it's an apparent part or a true part or whatever.

But I think the community that you guys have here is just so incredible. Like, I don't think it's quite realized how important the format of how you guys spread this message is. So many teachers talk about the natural state, but everything about the way these meetings are run and the way you present it is natural. And I think that's so critical, actually. Like all the small stuff, like you can see the cats walking around in the background. You guys are just chilling at your house, you know, and you're just so accessible as people and you really live it. And I think it's a sort of underrated aspect of how it comes across.

So just wanted to thank you for absolutely everything that you do and the way that you do it. Thank you. That's beautiful. Well, if I can just, I want to not add to what Conor said, but one of the things that I didn't mention that I wanted to mention was that the I'm not sure how much further I've gone along, even though I haven't gone anywhere, you know what I mean. Without this community, I would be very lonely because I have very few and becoming less so, really, people that I can even relate to any longer. And so it's, you know, it's, that's interesting. You know, that's, you know, cause it's listening to, or just listening to the, a lot of the story and the same old, same old, same old.

And yeah, it's, they're not, these people are not asking for any advice from me. I'm certainly not in a position to say anything, so I'm just becoming more and more alienated. So these groups are just vital for me to feel, you know, not like a bloody island in the stream. Yeah, I can imagine how Bob felt when he came back to Australia. God, all those years with no one wanting to, you would have been very alienated, Bob. Wow. And then he was lucky enough to take his wife to his first wife to Nisargadatta and she got clear as well. So that was handy to have someone at home to live with who was reflecting the same understanding, although she wasn't moved to speak about it.

So Bob was in a position where he wanted to sing it and shout it from the rooftops and then people weren't really ready at least initially. No, wow, I'm glad. I didn't realize your wife also went to Nisargadatta, I wasn't aware of that. That's great. Yeah, yeah. So, no, I'm very grateful for the community. Thank you. It wouldn't be here if not for you guys. And this is such a gift. I see it as a kiss, like a kiss of the universe, you know. People who have open hearts and are really open to share and assist each other and talk about the only game in the town in a way that is safe and respectful.

It's just beautiful. It is beautiful. And even in that period of alienation, life changes constantly. I remember initially it felt like, yeah, not only the seeking dropped away, but any interest in talking with my friends or my mother, We used to get high on the ideas of enlightenment and drink tons of green tea and get high on all the spiritual thoughts. And then suddenly interesting thoughts dropped away. And initially it felt like, oh my goodness, you know, it was such a big part of my life. What the heck? And then, of course, it started pouring out in other ways. And now I find it the most amazing to actually be around people who never had any exposure to nonduality and listen to them and hear that they also have the same life the same wisdom within them I am just open to hear rather than talk That's also an adventure, that's also nice.

But I see Mitra is on mute. Would you like to say something, Mitra? Hi Bob, hi Kat, hi everyone. I also want to express my gratitude. I'm not even aware what this is doing to me, but it's doing something. I'm still in the elementary school, so I really don't know what is going on, but something is going on, that's for sure. And some of it is very clear, and you know how you saved me. But my question is, you know, you told me a while ago that I actually sit and feel the presence in my heart. I have been doing this occasionally during the day, but then the last couple of weeks I've been drawn to actually sit and meditate on that, whatever energy or whatever is going on in my heart.

And so when I sat with it, I started from the very beginning from the person that's not new. It also happened before. But now it's just very intense. My heart always been like every time I sat, it was like a mess going on. But now the mess seems to be not there, but it's intense. I am a person who is not afraid of pain, that when on the right side, when I, and as more as I give attention to it, as intense it gets. And so my question is not like I want to get rid of it, or, you know, there is no fear. The pain is intense, but there is no fear attached to it.

I'm just very curious about it. But I try to talk to it. I try to say, what's going on? You know, do you want to open up? I try all of the things. It doesn't talk to me, you know, but I thought maybe I raise it. And if you know, I would love to work with it. I would love to. You know, just I wanted to open up if it wants to. But maybe I don't need. So I thought I'd just say to you, and if you think of anything to share, that would be great. Well, obvious thing is to exclude any possibility that it is a physical thing.

I'll just say that one second. That sensation you feel is not in the physical heart. No, it's not. It's a sense of feeling well, well-being. Now, look at it, go to it, try and make it worse. And see if anything goes wrong, and move away from it. Go into it. Put all your energy into it, see if you can find a centre to it. And do it long enough and you'll find it disappears because it's not there at all, it's not a conception. And then that disappearance, that's when you say the joy and everything will express. But it's something that you're aware of, so it's an object.

It's not you. So look into it. Don't be afraid. Just go into it. See how bad this pain can get. Okay. Well, I've been sitting with it for, let's say, an hour and an hour and a half even. And it's there. It just gets intense and intense and intense. But it sounds like there is no fear in me that all my heart gonna stop, nothing like that. I'm just curious. So I will keep sitting with it. Can you pinpoint the exact spot where it is? Yes, it's right on my, in my chest. You know where the heart is, physical heart is on the left, but this is on the right.

That's what I'm saying. Well, go pinpoint it, go into the time. Look at it. As possible, try and really see if you can find any pinpointed exactly where it is. I know it seems it is very horrible when you look into it and dissolves after a while because it's only a conceptual, it's only in the mind, but that sense of well-being increases, the well-being that's in it, not in the, that's heart, what they call heartfelt, You know, get the sensation. It's not talking about the physical heart and joy. Heart as the core of your being, the centre of the spirit, the home of the spirit.

Recognise it, go into it. Yep It not physical right It definitely not physical Okay Probably the hardest thing you ever done It was here But it didn't until I did that. It was there. Now it's not there. It's not replaced by... That sense of well-being is there naturally all the time. There is a sense of well-being, I would say, at times, as well as that pain. I have to admit both in there, strangely, sometimes. It's not like it's dark and gloomy. It doesn't... the emotions change around it, but you know, it's nothing scary, just intense pain. That's all it is. And also in May, I did the silent retreat and I had a very bad back pain.

I went to the retreat for massage and stuff like that. What did I say for two weeks? But it was in my back rather than here. So it's been a strange thing. It's been with me for a while, but because I wasn't sitting with it, I wasn't feeling it. I'm feeling it, but when I sit in meditation, it just comes out like that. If you go into it, you see it's an object. Go right into it and see if you can find it. See if it's subjective. If it is you, you don't have to do it. It's subjective. And did massage hurt? No, no, it didn't.

But then it went away after two weeks, but that just went to my back. It was the breathing that and some inflation of muscles and stuff like that. I think my breathing was so uncomfortable that somehow an inflation happened, I don't know, in the back. And anyway, I really don't know what I'm just saying. That area is very sensitive. It's interesting that Bob says it's a concept, so it's not really anywhere, it's just a thought, right? Well, I had a pain, a strong pain during Vipassana meditation, and it was purely physical because of the position, because of the breathing, because of the way you sit.

If you don't naturally sit in a way through the day, you may not have the structural muscles that would support the position. But I would not exclude the possibility that this is the posture-related thing, especially if meditation is not something that you do for 20 or 30 years. Yeah, but no, I'm not a big meditator, but I also, when I lie down in bed, you know, at night and I'm focusing on my heart, it happens also. Like I feel the same pain. But I'm just going to sit with it. And if Bob says it could be a thought also. If you try and make it worse, like if you've got a bone or a little bruise on your body, you can pinpoint that.

And it gets worse then, you know it's worse. I am sorry if I have missed you. If you look into this, you get your whole sensations into it. You find all those sensations you are in and looking at. All of them. And it just disappears because you don't hear them anymore. That's what you need to look at if you need to go and see someone. Or someone. Have a consult. We have three people on mute right now. Thank you. Maybe they have ideas about your situation. Renato will go first, and then Amin and then Andrew. Renato was on mute first. Go ahead. Hi there. Hi everyone.

Somehow I relate a lot to Mitra, so I will give some examples which I went through. In the same situation but in different ways. First of all, I did a test when I was doing lucid dreaming many years ago. I did a test when something was being attacked or trying to harm me in a dream. If I thought of it, believed it, the pain would be real. After a while, I went to test it and I believe it is not real. I didn't feel anything. No matter what they did, I didn't feel the pain. By the moment I thought of it, thinking, worrying, worried that I'm going to get hurt, the pain was very intense.

Although the body wasn't a real body, it's obvious. So that's the first part. So then I had something similar about two, three weeks ago. I had an issue when I get in a bus or I'm in a car and if I look at the phone or something, like in five seconds I'll be so dizzy I can't look at it, like I can't handle it. It's very intense dizziness. I know this thing, I had it since I was little. So this dizziness came once, I got sick, I call it sick, and it came so intense. But it came in a moment when I was ready to accept things with the heart.

So this dizziness came so intense, I had to walk, because I couldn't get in a bus, because it was even worse. I came home for an hour and a half. It was so intense, I didn't know what to do. I couldn't vomit, I couldn't do anything. It was so intense. But at the same time, I was so aware of it, I detached from it. So I said, okay, glad you came. I was happy with it. So I just left it there for almost 12 hours. 12 hours for about, yeah, I mean, the moment I got the sickness increase, almost 24 hours. Next day I woke up, it's totally disappeared like nothing happened.

But then something interesting happened because before most people when they get things, they get tablets, they get something to get rid of it. But my intention was not getting rid of it. Maybe I misheard you, but you're trying to like, you're very uncomfortable. Okay, body is uncomfortable. But you're saying I'm uncomfortable. So you're not happy with what's happened. Yeah. I mean, actually, there's nothing happening to you. That's right. I mean, obviously, nothing happening to you. That's a mistake. That's a little detail. People don't pay attention. You can say like, oh, I'm not worried. Deep inside you are worried. Deep inside you connected to it, you made it part of yourself.

So the most important thing is you have to have that, if you, because that awareness which one I'm like 100% and one Bob knows, this being existence that never change no matter what happens to you. Nothing changes. You being aware doesn't change, doesn't go higher, lower, whatever. So being aware, the moment that feeling comes, you have to be aware how you think about that feeling. That's the most key point. You have to be because it's so tricky. Mind is so tricky, you can manipulate it in such a good way to make it think you're doing the right thing. Do you get me? So it's like very tricky.

Anyway, to get to the point. So this thing happened. Yeah, that didn't happen before because before the moment that Disney was coming, I was trying to lie down, trying to avoid it, trying to, but this time I didn't do anything. Like emotion I had before, for example, this was painful, painful, like I couldn't stand. I didn't know it was so painful for the body, but I was like totally okay with it. Now, the tricky part happened. When I went to work the week after, the day I went after, by mistake, the bus moved, I was looking at the phone, trying to do something. And after a minute and a half, I noticed I was looking at the phone and nothing, I was feeling no dizziness.

That shocked me. Shocked me so much, I was curious. I said, oh, is it because I already accepted it? I am a person who has been in this world for many years and I have experienced a lot of pain. I used to feel dizzy every time I woke up. I know my past was very painful as a child. For this body, for this identity I have. And those affected me because nothing happened for what the reason. If you got cut, it's obvious you can see it. It's a pain with no where. Poham Bambam. It's so obvious, you can see it. Even seven years ago when I started to do meditation, like relaxing, after five minutes I used to feel pain in my legs, like tense, like buzzing pain.

So painful, I couldn't resist it. So I was doing it slowly, slowly, till I managed to stay for two hours, the pain gone. But I didn't know that time, I knew like you need to resist, but it took me longer because I was resisting it. But it was obvious, it was because I couldn't rest. And then I learned to rest, the pain gone. So the pain, if this pain like just comes up, of course you check with the doctor, those are obvious things. Normally, because the body, you know, we have doctors. But if those that are, a doctor can't understand it, it's obvious, it's something in the past.

Now you're becoming more aware of yourself. Those are bubbling up. To me, as a person, it's 100% true because I've been there and I know it. I tested them in every way. Like I said, I'm a curious person. I like to test things. I don't go, oh. So it's been almost nine, ten years I don't use medicines or anything. Although sometimes people, when I used to get sick, people used to say, oh, you're going to get sick and die. I said, die and what? What's going to happen? How do you know what death is? You never experienced it. Why tell me death is a big problem?

So the moment I say to them, do you know what death is, they're stuck. Because they're just talking about something, they don't understand it. So people can influence as well. I remember when people used to say that deep inside you used to get scared. Oh, maybe that will be true, or maybe that will happen. And mind can enjoy that. More worries you give it more enjoy to these things So it only you paying attention but be aware how you pay attention to it You pay attention because this thing is bothering you now you have to deal with it Oh my goodness, now I have this pain, okay, I need to be mindful of all those things.

You have to be aware how your mind thinks of it. It's totally, totally the mind game in a way. Just be there, it's pain of the body, you know the body. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I don't know, whatever it is, because since I'm going to Bob, I feel like lots of things are moving through me and come out as pain. Like I had pain in different parts of my body. I know maybe it's not relevant to Bob, but I think it is because it's nothing to do with physical.

So they get fixed after a few weeks and they never been so intense. But I feel like just going to Bob is doing something beyond my understanding. I cannot explain it, but it's doing something. I feel a change in my level of awareness and consciousness. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I am not at all afraid. I think it's a really good thing. I thought maybe there is a way that I can actually make it open up to me to talk to me too.

I think it's nothing physical, I'm pretty sure, but I think just going to these sessions is doing something and this is also part of it. The thing you're saying is, I'm trying to talk to you, who is talking to who? If you're trying to talk, who is talking to who? That's a good question. Who are you talking to? Because that's the thing. You see the mind can play so much games, let's talk to it. I did therapy and things, a lot of things, things keep extending because you're trying to fix some... It's like you have a tool and that tool broke your equipment and now you're trying to fix the equipment with the same tool.

You never fix it. That tool broke it in the first place. You have to get rid of the tool. So now you're trying to fix, you're trying to, someone here is trying to fix someone else. And you are just right there and observing all those things. An example I'll give you, like 15 years ago when I was doing martial arts, my finger went L-shaped, like this. I was shocked because I was always being aware person, I was always aware whatever happened. I was shocked and the teacher took it, boop, cracked it back. Still, I felt this in that moment because of fear and think of the pain didn't feel, but the next day I felt pain in the finger because you went back to its place.

So now you're saying you went to Bob, Bob is helping to go back to your natural place. So all those feelings now, they're coming up because they're going back to play. Now they're expressing themselves with that taste. But it's a body. Don't try, now your mind trying to fix a body. The mind did the first problem in the beginning. Now you're trying to use the same tool to fix it. It's nothing to fix. Just let it be there. Because you see, we're trying to think with this and if we do something, it's going to be fixed. But we forget who broke in the first place.

That thing because we don't remember a lot of things what happened or little. And because the system is built to forget the pain. That's how it works. If you don't remember, even better. But if you're trying to remember what, then you're gonna feel guilty, you're gonna feel bad, you're gonna feel sorry, all those things. But just letting it be there, that's all. Just let it be there. If something comes up, even better. We don't have to try to fix it because it's nothing to fix. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you. So, Simon, yeah, look into it. Go right into it. And if it's not physical, it'll go right in and it'll disappear.

But if it's physical, you've got to do something about it. So if you've got a bruise on your body, you can pinpoint that. But this psychological thought that's going on, created by thought, feeling, and you try and make it worse, think it worse, it disappears because it's not those substances. As Renato was saying, there's nothing there at all. I still get pains in the knees and back and everything like that, the damn physical one. The physical one And we have Amin is unmute shall we invite him to speak Thank you Thank you Thank you Renato It was a very pertinent sharing, so I don't know if I still have something to say.

Maybe I want to share an experience I made yesterday. I was going out from the shop and I had a feeling in my heart of quite a bit of sadness and some pain relating to a relationship. Suddenly, I don't know what happened, but my attention changed. I wasn't looking at it, I was just being with it. And I just noticed that it was joy. Just beneath the sadness, there was joy. And it was joy that was going, pushing from the inside. I was looking at it from the perspective where I was seeing sadness and pain, but when this perspective shifted to something just more spacious, I saw it was joy that was pushing.

So, and I was struck by this very, yeah, it shifted my whole experience in just, yeah, lesser than second. And I was, yeah, I wanted to share that. Yeah, that's beautiful. It shifts spontaneously if you are open, if there is no attachment to a particular position. Yeah, that's beautiful. Just being open to that greater perspective in which whatever appears is just an appearance. And now sadness is not sad anymore. It's actually quite pretty, you know, beautiful and amazing. There is joy behind it. Yeah, beautiful. What is it darling? Andrew, did you want to unmute and say something? You were on mute for a moment. I don't know if it was intentional or not.

And we also have a comment on the screen from Vivek. It is selflessness of the Brahman, Nisargadatta, Bob, all realized souls are generous enough to spread the message of freedom. Yeah, that comment is here for quite a while when people were expressing gratitude. So thank you, thank you Vivek. And Andrew, were you unmuted intentionally or unintentionally? Okay, unintentionally probably. It was an accident. Okay. And can I add something? Please. Yeah. I don't know if this thought is relevant, but sometimes I think the mind thinks of itself as alone. Sorry, my English is not very helpful. Sometimes it's just in my experience, it's just feeling, allowing the feeling of the other.

I am the other. When I say the other, it is not a person. It can be a person, but it is also everything that is around. And just letting this participate in my bodily experience, not closing my attention on my body as a separate thing with, for example, my table or my chair or... Just letting this link and the relation living and alive, letting it be alive. It helps me to stay with uncomfortable feelings, pain or thing. If I close myself on it it going to grow grow grow grow grow and be overwhelming And I think it maybe an error I did in my meditations because my mind was turned on me turned inward Meditation sometimes is not inward, it is with everything.

It is the capacity of being aware of several things in the same time, in the same moment. Not only concentrate and focus. I don't know if it makes sense. No, it totally does. That's beautiful. That's really what the experiential non-separation is all about. You don't separate yourself to be I am here and the world is out there. This is me, this is not me. This is where the separation comes from. Labelling things as me and not me, I and not I. So just allowing everything to appear in the field, you know, this body, other bodies, the body of the table, I am the body of a glass of water.

All of it, the feeling, the body of a feeling, everything just appearing in a consciousness and not controlling or contriving that consciousness. Just expanding, relaxing, relaxing more and more, allowing all of that to be as it is. You expressed it really beautifully that sometimes concentrated focus is the very contraction and relaxing it out and letting life facilitate where is the attention to go. Rather including than excluding. That may be a beautiful, inspiring way of allowing that shift to happen. That was really well said. Yes, and sometimes allowing also the resistance. Yes. In this process, because it may happen, there is a lot of resistance In the process of opening to life.

Absolutely. That's the part where it's most difficult and most stuck. Because people trying to, I mean people, you know what I mean, these cold people, they always trying to resist what's there. It's already there. It's like it's there. It's now. Now it's just they can't accept it. But that's what they make it even harder to let go and to let the process go quicker actually. It actually can go much quicker if you don't resist it. Yeah, including the resistance. Don't resist the resistance, you know. That's why you need to pay attention not only what happened, that feeling, that thing, but you need to pay attention how you see, how the mind sees it.

So like Amit said, separate completely, just observe. So the mind, you have to be careful with the mind, how the mind sees it, because the mind takes it trying to make it right after. You know, you made it wrong, it's like an addiction. If you make it wrong, now I need to do something to make it right and make it worse. Yeah, yeah, that was spot on. That was really good what you said. You have to be careful on that. Whatever happens, happens. That's all. It's done. Yeah. And if you start asking your heart, what are you going to tell me? Oh, you're just going to find more stories, stories, stories.

And there are ways in the therapy, you know, but the therapy is not a way to liberation. Therapy is to mitigate existential pain and angst to the level of bearability, but not really alleviating it. So you can get, you know, the Scientologists, go to the extreme pain of imagining yourself to destroy the whole humanity, I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the universe. I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the universe. Yeah, it's an amazing play in consciousness, but this is not the way to realize the stories what stands in a way. This is the using story for creating extreme experiences and those experiences are just passing phenomena.

If you want to really realize that you are beyond and prior passing phenomena, then telling stories is going to take you nowhere. So that was a good highlight. I always say now, bring it on. When the mind comes, bring it on. I say that a minute and sometimes it comes on. I say good, welcome. Just bring it on. Open-minded. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, so thank you everyone. That was beautiful. Thank you, thank you Bob and Kat for making this happen. Thank you. Thank you so much. Love you. Love you.