This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Absolutely. Okay, so I'll tell you a little story then. I went to the funeral today of a friend who used to be a part of our group. He got enough help, he saw enough through the illusion and he stopped showing up about... I think about time, you start coming. So we've seen him sporadically. We would meet for dinners and stuff and he passed away and I went to the funeral. And there was another guy who did show up also occasionally on our meetings and who were always adamant to disprove whatever is being said. Quite a colorful character, conditioned to just disagree with whatever is being said, and really adamant to never look at the projector.
That master Nisargadatta was wrong, Bob was wrong, Vasubandhu was right, and Nagarjuna was wrong, and this one. And generally, just arguing concepts that, you know, if you say there is such thing as intelligence energy, you are wrong. If you say there is such a thing as Brahman or Atman or awareness, you are wrong. And, well, of course, I mean, nobody disagree with that concept, you know, the word water isnot the water, you can't drink it. The concept is just a pointer, but to say that it points to something is to completely miss the essence of the teachings, which Bob sometimes calls cognizing emptiness or no thing, not a nothing, but a no thing.
So the teaching is that the substance of the dream is not a thing. It's not entirely nothing, but it's not a thing. So the dream is made of no, not a thing. And yet it appears to be. And you may deny it as much as you want to, but you have to be here to deny it. So several times I try to challenge the guy to look at the projector because he assumes that he knows what everyone else means. And he doesn't even see that that assumption is just another concept, another virus of the mind that he fall prey. And this is the danger of spiritual seeking.
When the seeking starts to be looking for the high amongst the concepts. I understand that concept and you don't. I get it and you don't. Or I'm resonating more than you do. And this... Gets it that doesn't get it again the the firststep into looking at non-duality is not to question the world, it's not to question the pointers or the concepts, but to question the very projector that is engaging in interpreting the world. That's the point. And I ask him again, why don't you see? That the lenses of the projector are responsible for your interpretation of what is being projected. Why don't you look who's looking?
And then you see whether there is something or there is nothing, or there is no thing, because that's the main source of the whole illusion. It doesn't matter what appears seemingly outside. It is secondary. But what is that essence which is projecting? What is that capacity for knowing?to which you can even argue the concept. And can you deny it? Can you assert it? Can you put the finger on it? Can you draw the circle around it, make a circumference around it? So those are the questions that can be verified directly through the direct experience. And denying reality of things or denying illusory appearance of things is really what a waste of time.
Just analyzing every single element of the dream and never looking. At that very lens through which that dream is being projected. While the shortcut is start from the fact that you are already that. Start looking at what is that you? What is that I? What is that that? What is the one that is that? Is there anyone there?And then you can see that you can't deny existence itself. Existence is there. But does that existence have any boundaries? Does it have any shape? You can see how the shape of the body-mind comes with the idea. But without the thought, without the idea, does the existence have any shape, any form, any time?
Does it have any past? doesn't have any story, doesn't belong to anyone. Without the thinking, in the direct experience. And you will find out that the only thing that you actually know and the only thing that you can even say is that there is an existence or that I am. And that is the truth. That is the reality. And now one could argue that there is no truth. There is no reality. Truth or reality is just a label.But what it points to is that which can't be negated. That's why we call it the truth or reality, because you can't negate it. You can't get away of it.
Well, we can go to the theoretical situation when one falls asleep or goes to coma or shoot himself. But that's not happening. That is not a direct experience. That is an idea. So going back to, I see there's a comment on the screen, going back to the direct experience, direct experience of presence, of awareness, of presence, of being, and whatever appears on it that interprets it, Marianne says, did he also say that it was not true that he existed? Well, that's the problem with him. And that's the problem as long as I know him. And I know him almost as long as Bob knows him.
He shows up every now and then once a year or so. He doesn't want to look at it. No, no, no, no, I don't go there. No, no, I'll analyze everything else, every scripture, every text. But how about the fact of your own existence? Do you exist or you don't? No, no, I'm not going there. I'm not looking. Well, we're talking about the direct experience and you refuse to verify your own direct experience because you know that you may find yourself on the same page.That's very uncomfortable because the core of his identity is to be a contrarian. And he's absolutely not ready to drop the identity.
And again, that's just how the life expresses. There is a program, just like you can train the dog. And every time you throw the ball, the dog will follow the ball. That's the training. Life has trained him. To be a contrarian, to always say the opposite. He's not the doer, there is also no one there. It is just life playing the game. But part of the game and of staying in that persistent identity is to not have a look. So he vigorously refuses to take a look and it is actually very threatening the whole idea of forget what Yvonne says here. Not anymore. Not true that he existed, not anymore.
And laughter. Yes. So that's the point. There is no choice in the matter. There is no choice for those who are capable of having a look and who would see all the way through. Or for those who cannot, who are just constitutionally incapable of that. It's just that's how life structured that particular vehicle of expression. There is absolutely nothing wrong. I'm always happy to see him in a good health.He's a sweet guy. And like librarian, says Jenny. Yes, that's exactly right. And the funny element is that actually Bob was the one who, or the fun word contrarian, never heard that one before, like librarian. Bob was the one who actually suggested he study the Buddhist Middle Way and Nagarjuna.
And we both really, really appreciate his teachings. And now the guy shows up and he insists. That these teachings are in direct contradiction with what Bob was pointing all his life, which is, of course, absolute nonsensical. But it is really a good pointer, the little story as a pointer to use. Where can it take you engaging with the concepts rather than directly looking at what is the truth in this moment right now? Instead of reading the books and learning the concepts and perpetuating the concepts, speaking, talking the talk,And avoiding, by all means, to just having a look. What is looking? Look what is looking. Anybody there?
See what is thinking. Anybody there? Then you can see that even your contrarian thoughts are not your thoughts. They are just appearance on the screen. There is no need to defend them. There is no need to attach to them. Because they are just an appearance on the screen. Doesn't matter what happens then. The response may arise, but that response is not personal either. It's just what appears on the screen. And then we are back to the screen. The screen doesn't mind. The screen doesn't care. So when I see the guy and there was a couple of people from our groups on the funeral, very, very casually remove themselves from his vicinity, move the other way, look the other way, because, you know, they had an experience.
He just doesn't, he can't, he can't hear anyone. It's just adamant about attachments to being right about the concepts. And it really doesn't have to be this way. My final reminder always is look at Bob. Look at his life.the truth, not his words, but the way he lived, the joy in his life, the happiness. Can you say the same about yourself? Oh, I'm a work in progress. Well, are you? So there is another, Marianne says, aha, even if you attach to the contrarian's comments. Yes, it is really just a habit. There is no one there who is attached. There is no one, everyone has, every body and mind has a preconditioned set of behaviors, preconditioned set of rules and definitions and perceptions, interpretations.
They, you know, partly learned through imitation from teachers, from school, society, parents. No progression here, says Yvonne. And nobody is choosing their own personality. Nobody is choosing their own responses. Nobody knows their next thought. Nobody knows their next feeling. Nobody knows their capacities fully. Some of them you may observe the mind and see the rough probability. Bob's walking the talk, spoke volumes, says Julia. Absolutely. And Marianne put a heart on it. Yes, so...It is as simple as that. Rather than believing a book, agreeing with one author and disagreeing with the other author, siding with one set of concepts against another set of concepts. I prefer Buddhism to Advaita and I prefer this to that.
The answer is not there. It can't be found in the scriptures. Scriptures are full of pointers. Pointers are made of words. Words are language. Language is duality. They always vibrate in the pairs of opposite. Every pointer can be pulled apart and damaged. But the truth sits aside, looks in the background like a basic screen. And if it could, it would just laugh its butt off because it is a cosmic joke. There is nothing to be found in defending or attacking concepts. There is nothing to be found through the deep comparison and a contemplation over ideas presented in the different words. You can directly look at where they are pointing.
Because it doesn't matter which words are being used. That's the fun part. Once you know, once you see where they are pointing, it's really, really easy to see. You're not unconscious. You're not unaware. You know that. That's it. That is it. Once you know that every pointer,bring the attention back to that basic, very, very basic truth. Suddenly, you may discover, oh shit, I speak so many languages straight away. Jesus said this. Yeah, but I know what he meant. Everybody shows the same truth. Suddenly I speak Christian. Wow, amazing. Now you can read Nagarjuna, you can read Dzogchen, or you can read whatever. But once you know where they're pointing, wow, that's an interesting way of putting it.
That's a brilliant way to point against because you know where it is pointing and everybody knows that. There is no one who doesn't know about the presence awareness that is happening right here, right now. Without it, nothing else happens. So just with that predicament, with that basic reminder and basic presumption, hearing every pointer, aha, but it is showing the same truth, the same basic fact of your own existence, just this and nothing else. Wow, that's a great way to say it. Suddenly you just fall in love with all of those languages and all of those styles or ways of pointing and all of those brilliant metaphors and brilliant ways of putting it out.
You see, you know, the Bob's metaphor is not Bob's. It's been used before.the of the mirror or the mirage or the reflection of the moon i don't know if if it's been uh popular before bob the blue sky and the blue sea this is just a metaphor all of those metaphors are the same bob was using also the electricity flowing and illuminating brilliant brilliant ways but once you know what it is pointing they all speak to you but if you stay in the conceptualized in conceptualization in the thinking mind and you try imagine what does it mean imagine what this guy meant by that or what that one meant You never leave the realm of the mind and the answer cannot be found there.
So rather than listening with the thinking and trying to fit it in to a pre-existing belief system, Relax the attention and listen with that heartfeltopen awareness in which the resonation can happen that that sense that oh yes i know that that open field of resonation because you do you do you know that you exist it's just the mind comes and says yeah but so what I want pleasure. I don't want just a plain existence. My job is to provide pleasure, to focus on the future, to assure survival. I'm going to do my job.So that tool is never going to work. It is ignoring the present moment.
In the present moment, the mind does not exist. It cannot exist. It has to conceptualize itself. A screen of time. It exists in the past and in the future and in the context, in the imagination. So it is not the right tool for the job. Relaxing the mind and listening with that sense that, hey, there is a knowing already. If I stay open, it will just move something. It will resonate. And then it is very, very obvious. I don't know. I never actually met anyone for who it wouldn't be obvious, even if they can't really see directly, but always translated through the thinking. It is obvious that you are not dead.
That is obvious. That you are not unconscious that is obvious and that obviousness is is the base without that nothing is i see there's a couple of comments here Jenny says, yet we can find that the pointers in all scriptures do pointin the same direction sameness actually much more obvious than separation beautiful exactly that's so many different ways thousand ways of of speaking like like in hindu they have thousands of names for god but it is all just that one essence that one god and so many names separation genesis just something we look for as long as we hold on to our specialness, the ego point.
Yeah, the belief, the belief. And I remember having that conversation with Julia. I mean, Julia found her own answer and said that. So it wasn't even really a conversation when she was saying, Yes, I'm so special, but so is everybody else. Every single pattern is uniquely different, is uniquely different and beautiful. Every fingerprint, every droplet of water, every snowflake. So it doesn't deny the brilliance of that sameness or that oneness, doesn't deny the diversity and the specialness of the expression, which is amazing. And Yvonne says, know the truth and the truth will set you free. You are free in the heart. Yes, and Marianne and Jenny give it a heart.
And Marianne says, I need to nip out for a second.Yes. Yes, so knowing the truth. Exactly. And now one could argue, but there is no truth. Okay, that's a good base. You know, that which is neither truth nor untruth, but is still never changing, is still witnessing everything that appears. Doesn't matter what you call it. But you can't deny that there is an existence or presence which is registering everything that is happening. And this is the present experience. Even without the thought, you can look in the eyes of a newborn baby and you can see that it isn't dead and it isn't unconscious. So that consciousness is there.
And Julia says, when there is no narration, you are knowing the truth. Yes, the truth is reflecting on itself. It just is. It just is. It's the is-ness. Even when the narration goes on, the truth isn't touched. The space isn't touched. Although, yes, I can see what you mean, Julia, that, you know, suddenly the energy of belief is pulled into a story, which is just a story, which is just a story. It's a transformation of that energy appearing as something. The no thing appearing as something. The no thing.with the potential of everything to appear as everything, the no-thing-ness. And yet undeniably present. Your essential nature, closer than your breath, closer than the heartbeat, right here, whether there is narration or no narration, whatever is the condition of the environment and the body which are not separate, cannot be separated.
Whatever is the condition of thinking, which again cannot be separated from the body and environment.Those are all secondary conditions. But the primary fact is that you are. And in that is-ness, everything else appears and disappears, comes and goes. It's just a fleeting dream. So for those who have that program installed of longing for the truth or liberation, that is just another way that life is playing with itself, is dancing with itself.The first thing is to put the truth, to put the heart above the mind, to put the reality above that which constantly changes, the fleeting dream. So whatever does change, well, blow it a kiss and say goodbye and stay with that which never changes, which doesn't change.
Even if a fraction of attention is relaxed in that which never changes, the amount of freedom and the amount of joy grows exponentially.Earnestness. Yes. Yes, yes, that I guess is the word, yes. A longing for the truth or devotion or earnestness. Yeah. So anyone would like to jump in and add something or expand on something or bring in a point or two? Hi Ivan, Kamin and Jenny after. Oh, hi. The last time I had to go and we were talking about when I am dead, then that you can misinterpretate that. But I wanted to say, and you also mentioned it,
that when you don't go from the fact that you are already dead, you will never get there.
Because then you miss it all out. Because when you ask someone for the road, when you are a stranger somewhere and you ask someone, you have to trust that someone to come on the destination that you want to be. So when you're not believing Bob or whoever who tells you that you have to start from the fact that you are already dead, then you will never arrive. Yeah, you are already all right, but it doesn't make sense when you don't put that in front. So, yeah, we are already dead, or God, or oneness, or what name you give to it, but it is oneness dreaming that it's not true, but it is true.
And yeah, we have to take that for granted. We have to take that on board to be it. Otherwise, it will never make sense. And you also mentioned it and said, hey, I wanted to add that on my contribution from last time because I had to go. But you also mentioned it again.Okay. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And Jenny and then Jens. Thank you, Yvonne. Okay. So funny. I suddenly, I was trying to, what the heck was I going to say? Ah, now, now as I relax and let it go, then it comes again. In regards to your guide, the contrarian, I find it fascinating just to watch how much is dependent on where attention is put, you know, or where life puts attention, how it almost seems like we have different programming going on.
But if the program is rigged towards finding, you know, synchronicity, similarities, the good stuff, where we can meet, where we can join, where we have common denominators. Then you see those everywhere, you know. If your focus takes you on the terrible, the pains and whatever is in the world, then your focus takes you there. And if you don't believe it, you can just also there investigate for yourself. And just tell yourself today, I'm not going to see any yellow cars.You know, and I promise you when you go outside, the cars you will spot and see are the yellow ones, you know. So it's like I'm not going to think about a pink elephant.
Please do not think about a pink elephant. And you will have pink elephants showing up in your consciousness all the time. So it's interesting just to conduct those little experiments, experiential experiments with ourselves, you know, and we can see that how steered we are by... By the environment. And the environment isn't just the environment that is all around us. It's also the environment that's inside of us. And I think that's maybe a point that also can be looked at. It's the inner environment. I mean, how we... I mean, you, Tanya, you're a brilliant example of the whole hormonal inner environment, how that can affect, you know, that was your experience.
Or if we get dehydrated or if we run a temperature, if we're sick, if we have a fever, how we suddenly perceive things are totally different. I think it's important to see that how run this apparatus is by impulses and inputs fromin the inside and the outside. And that is just what came through right now. Yes, thank you, Jenny. And Jens, would you like to join in? Yes, thank you. Such a miracle, huh? Such a crazy theater. Being totally still, not moving, untouchable, andso much going on, playing, playing with oneself and hearing all these voices and seeing all these people and it's just madness, incomprehensible, totally.
It kind of comes and goes in waves inside that, whoa, this is just strange and fun. And then another loop and into it and it's... Totally unbelievable.One thing that comes up quite a bit is about Whose awareness does all these things happen in? And we talk about direct experiences as opposed to thinking or theory and all that. But you can also take direct experience and go back and say, Like, in whose awareness is this direct experience?And that is basically the only constant in whatever we experience. It is like your own awareness. Everything that happens, happens in your own awareness. And now I say your, but you can put whatever word you want there or just take it away.
And I mean, all these saints and sages, all these people that are really clever and not clever, It's all happening in your awareness. And that's the only thing you can be sure of.In that perspective, it's all you. And I mean, all the wisdom in the Holy Scriptures, Did those holy words exist before they appeared in your awareness? Did or do or have Nisargadatta ever existed?unless it appeared in your awareness. The only way to have a direct experience is if it is in your awareness. And looking from that perspective, it's just...Too much. It's just too much. Yeah. Yeah, it's just too much. Thank you so much.
That's all from here. Beautiful. Beautiful. That was just so beautiful. So beautiful. I started laughing here at the same time. It's just, um, huh.You know, we say inside, we say outside, we say backdrop to everything. You're just describing, trying to describe the point, but it's all inseparable. It's not, it's all just happening, exactly as you say, in that field. Of consciousness, but all of that, you know, sitting but we use the word life life lifing intelligence energy shaping patterning forming and it's all happening just this you can't separate anything from anything elseAnd it's all patterning and changing. But there's that still, as you said, Jonas, that sameness.
Is it Jonas? Jens. Jens. Sorry. Terrible with names. That sameness is... Like the, I hesitate to use the word matrix, but I couldn't, I can't think of another word. It's like it is the, it's not a thing, not background is in, it sits in the background. It's in everything. It's in everything. It is the fundamental. It is without it.What else could there, what could you, what could be experienced? And we can't, it's, it's. It's so hard to describe with limited words because the mind is limited and it is limitless. How so hard to sort of say, well, actually, the actual experience, as you said, is that is always ever just as it is right now.
And it's like it is a real, it's like it is just a. Singularity that is your experience it's not a it's not one event even following another there's a there's a an illusion of flow of time but you know if there were never any clocks No words, no mirrors, no anything. You'd just be, oh, just now.Thank you. That was really lovely. And what I see also, you have sometimes a little description behind your name, behind the J. And today it is silence. It is nothing. And as you started the little spiel, you know, in that stillness, in that silence, you know, and that's what's happening behind your name today too.
And we have... A couple of comments here. Yvonne says, too much for who and big laughter. Yeah, too much for no one. Absolutely no one. Too much is perfect amount. But to say too much is an expression of love and appreciation, isn't it? It's a beautiful expression. And emptiness, says Jenny, cognizing that life is lifing. The is-ness of is-ness is the eternal now, permeated. And Yvonne says, like a melting pot. Yeah. Yeah, suddenly, suddenly from that perspective of that stillness or that essence or that uncontrived singularity of the awareness, which is the awareness. And at the same time, there is nothing more closer. There is nothing more mind.
There is nothing more.intimate and dear than this. So you could by all means call it mind, even though there is no conceptualization of any shape or form of any me or mind. Looking from that perspective at whatever appears, Wow, what a feast. What a feast. Blank table and a huge banquet of varieties, colors, shapes, forms. Just yum. Celebration. Some of them are dark. Some of them are light. Some of them smell nice. Some of them smell not nice. And all of that happening because there is that basic screen on the table, that awareness of that existence.Suddenly the ideas that, oh, my life is shit in comparison to that Hollywood actor or that co-worker, it doesn't really seem that attractive anymore.
It doesn't seem that plausible anymore. It's not that real anymore. And the freedom is from believing ideas. If you disbelieve one idea, that is how much closer the freedom is. Freedom from one belief. One at a time. Or all of them. Straight away. Because if there is no one to believe, they just come and go. They may be charged. They may be persistent. They may induce actions. But if there is no one who they apply to, they don't matter. And we have like nothing but yes, I did that comment. I was wondering whether Amin wanted to speak because he had his hand up on Tuesday night and then we ran out of time.
Oh yeah, what a my dear. We have Amin with us today, we do. Would you like to jump in Amin?I caught him in a bad spot. Oh, yes. Hey. Hey. Thank you, Tanya, for remembering this. That's okay. I was delighted by all the sharings and everything that was said. expressed. It's so beautiful to just witness life arising from space to knowledge itself. Make a hello. Hello, I'm there. I'm there behind the scene. And yeah, it's just what I could say is Here I can only enjoy all the fixations, all the fixated patterns that comes up, that shows up in whatever forms. There are quite a few in this machinery.
It seems to have been...somehow a paradox between life fluid fluidity and fixation a lot of fixation and yeah when it comes out just enjoy it because it will go and It's like having a car. The car is fixated before it will shatter into dust. And we enjoy it. We don't question it. We just use it and appreciate it. And whenever its time is past, We have it. It's like the body. And it's like all the patterns, emotional patterns, thoughts patterns. Everything is so... Beautifully unfolding.Yeah. And like you said, Kat, Since I just wanted to acknowledge that I love the energy you displayed on Tuesday. It was so straightforward and very, I don't know how to express it.It's like, yeah, saying...
Sometimes all these fixations need like a kind of clean, like a big clean of the house. Like, okay, get out of the way now. That's okay. Just, yeah, sometimes it's not appreciating the fixation, it's just being lost in the fixations. So it's good to have a clean. It's good to, okay, no, it's not savory, it's just...Yeah, it needs like a big clean. So yeah, thank you for this. Yeah, and that's, you know, Hindu history, Advaita Vinayak talks about how important, you know, the sapsang is. So to speak. But, you know, here we are each time, Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday, we talk about this and we do a bit of a spring clean, don't we?
Yeah. Yes.Yeah, chucking away the rubbish. One of my favorite activities, by the way, cleaning house. Yeah, of course. I get a lot of satisfaction out of that. I can't tell you how much satisfaction I get over your pattern of cleaning the house. Only lucky. And we have Jenny says, hello. And this is quote unquote, I'm there behind the scene. Is that what awareness says when? The eye forgets and the heart and the music hello it is me you're looking for you're looking for that's beautiful yeah when i come visit tanya absolutely why not no don't go should i bring my mop My apron.But yes, call me lucky.
We had been doing a few holes in the walls and refitting the house and it starts looking livable. So those little things, you know, the opportunity to appreciate, the dream, the fleeting dream, you know, that Tanya is cleaning and the next day it calls for cleaning again. That's the impermanence of it all. The mess just forms on its own. Right? She gathers on its own, doesn't it? Yeah. And it never stops. The minute you're done, you're not done because it started piling up again. It's just life, life. Nothing sits still. Yeah, in the dream.Jenny, did you like, would you like? Yes, yeah, no, thank you for that one.
I'm going to remind myself, you know, with three dogs in the house, you know, I really, I can curse over hair and grovel and everything that they drag into the house. So I love this pointer now. I'm going to, now it cracks me up. You know, it's a reminder of the impermanence. I never looked upon it that way. But if I look at that, that the constant reminder of impermanence, you know, that then it won't annoy me, then I will see it as a gift. And that's again, you know, what kind of perspective do we want to take on everything?And in regards to the group, I mean, we are tribal beings when we are in form.
And it is lovely to gather with Sangha, with like-minded, you know, where we can just, you know, just be together, you know. And just share and be reminded and spring clean and have a good laugh or a good cry or just be being in this human experience together. So I so appreciate it and everybody showing up and you hosting in the spirit, you know, of Bob. All these times a week and it's lovely. I just wanted to again say thank you, you know, for, yeah, I know that even if Bob isn't sitting on a cloud in the heaven looking at us, I still have that image.
May I share a little story?My father, from the age when I was 16, he used to have a session with me every summer in case I die. You know, to took me through the books, who to call in case of that, what to do in case of that. And he knew that his views might flow in. You know, because he was an artist and also an alcoholic for a big part of his life. But he had a brilliant mind and wanted me to know to be able to take care of things. And he also said to me, well, you know, the day I die, then I will actually be up in the restaurant of Jericho.
And there I will sit at a long table with a good glass of wine together with all those who have left before me. And we will sit there and have a good chat and we will sit and look down at all of you down there still, plugging on and rejoice when it goes, when things go good and just be there with you. And even though I already, you know, as a teenager, this big 20 game already as a child, even though I knew that this was, you know, a story, that it was an illusion, that it wasn't the real thing. Ever since when somebody passes, I just put them up there at this long table, you know.
And so I put my parents there.friends and yeah, you know, our teachers and I have
so much fun imagining right now, you know, Bob being born 29 and my father's 29 and 30. Throwing the dogs. Yes. I'm just kidding. Like imagining them sitting there together, you know, talking to each other, you know, sharing stories about the blues and sharing stories about them. Revelations and yeah it just is i just love it so i imagine bob not right now sitting here also sitting at that table looking down at us and being really pleased you know say yeah yeah continue to talk about it continue to spread the word so that's what i wanted to share Sorry for the dogs, by the way.
It's sweet. It is sweet, yes. You've reminded me, Jenny, I don't know why this came up, but you reminded me as you were telling the story of your father, the Swedish concept, I think it is, of death cleaning. What, you know, is it Swedish? What? I couldn't hear you. The Swedish concept of death cleaning. Ah, yes, that is a Swedish concept, is death cleaning. It's a funny thing. My father was Swiss, so he was actually in Switzerland and not in Sweden. So death cleaning is a Swedish concept, and that's what you're supposed to do before you die. Yeah, it's funny.Clean out your rubbish so your kids don't have to do it.
Yeah. Yeah. What a great concept. Clean out your rubbish. Clean it all out. Chuck it all out. Death. Yeah. Is death of concepts. You know? What else? This is, you know, perfect. Clean it all out. Get rid of it all. All of it, you know. And then, you know, some will talk about the death of the ego and everything. There's no little ego person sitting in there waiting, going, don't kill me, don't kill me, you know. It's not going to happen. But yeah. And even clean out the concept about desk cleaning that you ought to clean so that the kids won't have to do it.
Just clean that shit out too. Just let life unfold as it does. Exactly. Exactly. Maybe it gets done, maybe it doesn't. It's just a mystery. We're not, we are, the seeming entities are not doing anything. It's just happening. It's just happening. There's, and I was thinking about your contrarian fellow, you know, this grasping or this holding on intensely or strong attachment to concepts.It's not helpful. You know, it is just another card in the tower of cards about that is, you know, seeming me. I believe. I believe in this. Therefore, that defines who I am. How limiting. How sadly limiting. Wow, but you know, if you can drop it all, then you're limitless.Yeah, and that I was going to add regarding the clinic, you know, like real clinic.
Throw away all the fanatical concepts. Throw away all that rubbish from the mind. All the conspiracy theories. Everything that seems like I know that for sure. This party, this religion, this system, this is wrong about me. This one is right. All of that is just what we are slaves to. Everything that you call important, that you call significant, that you call urgent.is suddenly enslaving the whole machinery. And the freedom is the freedom from that slavery to that importance, that sense of urgency, that sense of importance. And it doesn't mean that at any point life will not go on as it always does. Because that slavery is, there is an illusory self that is being enslaved.
So when the illusory self is seen through and the slavery is broken, nothing changes. Nothing. The idea that, oh yes, but it is important that I make money and pay taxes. If that idea is thrown away to the rubbish, Well, the life situation on finding yourself making money and paying taxes is just going to be as it always was, minus the strong idea, minus the fanatical concept. So cleaning the house and bringing back the realization that life unfolds as it should and there is no doer anywhere. And the concepts are only an overlay of the narrative, the constructed reality that is maybe handy in the communication, but it's absolutely not necessary.
And it has the byproduct of causing psychological suffering. And I see Martin. Oh, it will be great to hear you. Unmute, please.Hey, how are we doing? Hey. Who's that in the back there? Dean. Oh, Dean, how you doing? Oh, you look good. You're shining. You're all shining. Yeah, I don't even know why I raised my, this hand gets raised. I was saying, well, I guess I had this thought that just came up and it was, you know, how the hell did I get here? And it's kind of funny when you ask yourself that question, you know, have I brought myself here right now to this point or whatever you want to call it?
And the honest answer to that is always, hell no. I have no idea how I got here. But I'm here. Something's here. And I guess it's pretty magical, you know, and the freshness of this and really being, having no one here that has any clue of why this is happening, just being fresh and new, you know, just as it's. As it is. And listening to you guys, listening to the conversation that have been happening and hearing all the different waysto describe this, you know, I feel like happening, this is happening is such a, such a great way to say it. But, you know, you can, you can still deny that it's, you know, that this is happening.
You can, you can still deny that thought. You can still argue with that concept. Any concept that has come up with, I guess, any concept, doesn't matter how concrete or powerful and limitless it might sound, it can still be argued and denied. So that's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about something that can be denied. We're trying to use these words to point at something that can't be denied and sure like it feels like this is just happening sure that concept that came up there you know how do you know this is all happening you know is that your philosophy is that your like theory on this you know that that could that can be uh argued but that's not what we're talking about so don't get caught up on these descriptions and beautiful, even though they're beautiful to listen to, don't get caught up on those concepts.
Those concepts are just pointing to this thing that is undeniable.that, you know, we call presence, we call awareness, but not the words. It's just... You know, this, whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to call it, but the word isn't it. And so this thing that we're talking about, excuse the language now, this thing is obviously undeniable. Whatever you want to call it, you could call it presence, you call it awareness, you call it a mind and a body. But the fact that you're having to call it something means that it's not that. It can't be what you call it because as soon as you call it something, it's no longer it.
Yeah, I think that's the beauty of non-duality is because it's really, in its essence, it's not a concept. It's a concept that gets very close to pointing. It's like if I was pointing at something in the distance that I was... You know, three kilometers from you'd be like squinting your eyes and like, where the hell is that? But this point is like, I'm on my fingers just about to touch it. You know, this non-duality, this one, they're not even, uh, Yeah, I forget the concept now. I forget the concept now, but yeah, it's just like you're pointing, right?close but the finger like i've heard being said before the finger is not the thing we're pointing at the finger is a finger so sit with this you know i can't tell i can't say what it is i have no idea but i it can be it can be seen and recognized that that this seems to be here before anything else, any concept appears and therefore you know, this is giving birth to everything.
And for this idea of, say, Marty, this idea of Mardi to come to be, it needs this essence, this presence for it to appear, which means that I have to be this presence, I have to be this, we all have to be this essence because it's enabling all of these patterns and forms to appear. Yeah. Bunch of words. That's all I have to say.That was very well said. Very, very well said. Yes. We are that, says Amin in a smiling face. And Yvonne says, good point, forgetting the concepts. Yes, and Jenny says, beingness can't label the unlabelable. Unlabelable. Unlabelable. Unlabelable. Unlabelable. Yes, exactly. And I love the way, Marty, you pointed to whenever you give it a name, you know, that's not it anymore.
The thing, what was saying? The word is not the thing. The word is not the thing. The map's not the territory. So he says, I call it intelligence energy, but that's not it. That's just another label. So whatever label we choose to call it, we remember that we already know what it is pointed at. We know what it is pointed. We know intimately close that which, and I just, again, I love the way you put it, that which cannot be disputed or denied. Everything else, forget about it. Who cares? But that which never changes, that which is indirect experience in the forever now, undeniable.existence awareness of it not it not it that's a label that's on the label but yeah we all know there is no one who does not know that they exist and jenny says and remembering that it was present before words and labels were known and it is also present when you ask yourself what's wrong with right now if i don't label it It's right away easily accessible.
Would you like to give us a card? Yeah. Actually, this reminded me, and Kimo said this was a really great reminder the other day on Julia's Monday group, is that the reason Bob talked about sperm and the egg, was because, you know, the life, yeah, it was existing. So life was there before, you know, you were created. And they came from your mother and your father and grandparents and food and the environment. And everything is... Connected. There's no separating anything. And, you know, that's life. That is, we use the word life and that is different, you know, interpretations from one to the next. That's okay.
Call it what you like. But it's the same essence.It's underlying everything. And like we said, you know, and Kat just said again, we are full of labels. We are label machines, like, you know, those sticky label machines they used to have in supermarkets. We label everything constantly, right? It's just that we don't. The thoughts come up to label things, and it's limiting. As soon as you adopt, believe, take the label, because it is not that. A tree is not a tree. It's a shape of something that looks like this and has rough or whatever, but again, using words, it just is what it is. But, you know, this human condition is to label.
And I'm going to read something now. These three really resonated with me when I picked them out. Let's go for, oh, resonate first then. Let's do that one. Resonate. So in relating to past images of what is good or bad and wanting to keep the good and push away the bad, we are in conflict with what is right now. Resistance is uneasiness. Uneasiness is disease. I would add that resistance is useless. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. It causes psychological suffering.And this one, it's a reflection. Reflection. That is, yes, reflect on that. Self-realization is not a one-time event. That's a great pointer. It means that word time.
Event. Event. Happening to someone. No. It's not a one-time event, lasting experience or a permanent state. Yep. Knowing is alive and this immediacy, in this immediacy and can't be negated.Yeah, knowing, knowing, knowing. Beautiful. And this one is a reflect also. On that. Beautiful birdies on it. Classic. Keep seeing that there is no thing that sees. See that seeing happens naturally of itself. Now here, nowhere. Stateless state. Good one, Yvonne.So what should I talk about? Yeah, like so we talked about like cleaning and nuggets. Yeah, sure. And like, so there's sort of, there's thisness, there's awareness, there's a sense of presence or now or what the essence of the intelligence energy that is the immediacy of right now and many people describe it.
And then we talk about like cleaning and like and removing all concepts, all ideas and then But then it goes even further, like the perceiver of nothing also is wiped off. There's no actual perceiver because there's no, you can even become really empty and and still see things like from a perspective and but there's a limitlessness there's a boundlessness in dropping all that drops as well there's no there's no there's no one seeing there really is no one seeing there's just seeing of itself appearing and and and then inIn that scene, there might be a sense that there's a perceiver, but that's an appearance within the scene.
There's actually no perceiver. So it gets like you want to clean, right? Let's get to the essence of cleaning. There's absolutely nothing, like nothing at all. I used to have these discussions with Bob and I was like, Bob, I walk into a room and like all of a sudden this happens and like I might feel this person's energy or I don't. And we would have these big discussions about it. And he was always talking about the emptiness. And the emptier you are, like the easier energies were just moving, flowing through. But if there was a sense of me, it's like, oh, that energy is in reference to this or that.
And it just stuck and messy. But when it was, it just flowed. Like you take on everything. And there is no like inside or outside because there is no you as such. You are the totality and there's no perceiver as such. It's just seeing and the totality in the seeing can take on any form. There's like infinite focal points. And like the attention is like the brush that's just painting the tapestry. That's just like, that can go anywhere. And it is going anywhere all the time. It's like frigging absolute magic show.So I guess, you know, that's enough for now for the moment. Enjoy the magic show.
And if it's not magical, then it doesn't have to be magical. It can be absolute shit too. Magical shit. There's no one for the shit to be there. Like there's no one actually creating shit or it's not for anyone as such. It's just it appears that way or magical or not or now it's boring. Now I'm going to take a deep breath and enter a meditative state or take some mind-altering substance or whatever it bloody is. You know, it doesn't make a freaking difference. Because it's just that, appearing and expressing as... Boundless stuff constantly. Really, like, it's just what's going to happen now? Oh, but there is no now.
There's no next moment as such. It's like this. Even time itself is a collapsible commodity of an idea. Because it's now appearing as time. And it's like it bends and warps in a weird way if your mind tries to capture it because it can't. It's impossible. No. There is none. Yeah, anyway, I think I'll just shut up now and enjoy it. Bye. Awesome. I might say something profound now.What? Say something profound now. Yeah, lovely. Yeah, it did. It actually is. And the fact that sometimes there is a chit stone, sometimes there's a summer and sometimes there's a winter and sometimes there's a pain and sometimes there's a pleasure.
That's how it goes in the duality. And Jenny says, thank you. Thank you, Dean and heart. And the answer is, pretty please, can you upload this one? Wow. Yeah. Remind me. Nuggets from Dean, please, says Jenny. And stateless states, says Yvonne. Yes. And, and, uh, And the beauty of the duality is that, you know, once you see, once you recognize that it has to appear as the pairs of opposites, there is no other way for existence to show up, to play out. Well, then you don't mind the seasons. You love the seasons. You know, whether there are four seasons in one hour in your hormonal structure, or whether there are seasons within the relationships or family or work situation or any situation.
If there are seasons, there are weather coming, good weather, bad weather, hot, cold.It's just a necessity. It has to be there. You wouldn't know pleasure if not for pain. You wouldn't know health if not for sickness. For any appreciation, for any form, for any distinguishable state to even appear, it has to appear in the contrast of its opposite. So appreciation for the oppositions, for the opposites, without attachment, letting them move through, letting them pass through, and giving them space, leaving them unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. It's time for boredom? Okay, welcome. Time for sadness? Welcome. Bob used to always say, I wonder how is that going to change?
I wonder how is that going to resolve? Because that it is, there's no question. And Jenny, would you like to unmute?Funny, I don't even know that I pushed that button. But anyhow, I wanted to thank Dean for telling the story about, you know, Bob and about taking on energies from others in the room. And I find that it was such a great reminder. Because that is really is an experience that I'm having more and more, which is enjoyable. You know, before I was like an old iron pan where everything kind of stuck. You know, you just had to put a little bit of heat in it and it got stuck.
And now it's more like Kevlar, like a nonstick coating, which is quite enjoyable. And you reminded me of that with your sharing, you know, that, yeah, actually, that is what's happening. And that's what's so beautiful to be reminded, to observe, because sometimes. It can be really easy to sing, to perceive like nothing is happening, as nothing is happening, but you know what I mean. But then to be reminded to see that, wow, yes, I used to react like that, but I'm not reacting like that anymore. And that's what's so beautiful with these different sharing. So thank you for the nuggets. I always enjoy them, Dean.
So as soon as you're here, I will nudge you to share nuggets.That was a great analogy. Yep. What I want to know is, do the nuggets stick to the pan? And Yvonne says, definitely. That's it. I think it's you again.Would anyone who didn't speak today would like to unmute and add us a couple of words? Now it might be intimidating when Deanne asks me to upload, but look, I can just, if she's one person, I can just send the recording to her. So please, if anyone would like to say something, add something, ask a question, share. Maybe there is something that you're struggling with. Maybe there is something that we omit in pointing or there is a pointer that feels intuitively that it would be really, really beneficial to see through and it feels impenetrable.
Anyone? Tell us something, T-Ball. Tabor, would you like to unmute and say something? Say hi. No. I can't because I'm at work, but I'm listening. Sorry. Oh, good on you. There's Andrew there too, and Julia. And Julia says, can you add to perfection? How can you add to perfection? Well, find out.Yeah, it's sweet. You're going to add perfection and you're going to take away perfection and the perfection remains. That's one of the verses of Guru Gita that Bob sometimes quotes. If from the perfect, the perfect is taken, only perfect remains. So if to the perfect, the perfect is added, only perfect remains. So if anyone maybe would like to add something or share something, but doesn't feel like public speaking, you can also type in the chat box.
Also just give us a little type.We have 10 minutes left. There's no new folks today, so no. Well, very good. I can't. Bob used to say we shouldn't be so stingy, that we should be generous with the sharing. Something in the old days, wasn't he quite straightforward with that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes we would have a run of like, oh, okay, I don't want to share anything. So maybe just reiterate or state out loud your favorite pointer. I'm just going to pick one of the cards. Because you never know. You don't know. This is how it's going to come out. And it might not be perfectly accurately expressed, but the way it's expressed could be heard by, you know, Yeah.
And sometimes even tuning your own instrument and hearing yourself speak might bring a little bit of a... I don't have much to say, says Julia, except I love you all. We love you too, beautiful. And that is here. Reflect on that.a thought are there any locations other than here is there any other time than now experienced directly not through conceptualization or imagination yeah so that's that's another point there they all point to the same thing the same no thing The same presence of existence, awareness of being, the sat-chitananda, the being, knowing and preferring to be. self-evident and overlooked only because of the habitual focus on the stories, on the dramas, on the thinking, on the distractions.
And that habituated behavior, everyone is innocent of because it has been learned through imitation. In early age, once we learned words, once we learned the game of labeling. Labeling ourselves and labeling everyone else. We labeled ourselves out of the paradise. We called ourselves naked. There was something wrong with us. Like Adam and Eve in the story of Bible, there was something wrong with us. We had to fix ourselves. We had to cover up. We have to do something.Because of the label, I am separate. I am less than totality. I'm less than perfection. Everyone is innocent of that because our parents, our teachers, our heroes, we're all subscribing to that mode of functioning.
Functioning through this interface of the interpretation and translation to the narrative relating to the me, to the me of. Of the past, me of memory, me of mental images. So seeing that it is just a habit pattern, it is just a behavior. You can marvel at the brilliance of the behavior. You can see how the attention is traveling and how the attention is translating. Oh, this is relevant for me. Oh, this is not relevant for me. They do like me. They don't like me. That has its function. It assists survival. But when it is believed, of course, me is less than totality. And Yvonne says, close to perfection says me, just not.
Yes. So that idea of me, that idea of me being less than absolute, is the source of all suffering, is the cause.of all suffering. And that idea is just an idea. It isn't a reality. The me cannot be found. If you look and you see who is looking, there is no me there. If there was a me, one could say, okay, how do you know? Where did you look at it from? Obviously, what you've seen is not who you are. The looking. And I think, is it Marty?Can you unmute? There you are. Hola. I heard you say, what were your favorite pointers from Bob? And I was just there, and then a pointer came up in my head, so I was like, I might as well share it.
But he obviously had plenty of good pointers. But the one that comes to mind at the moment is just relax into it. After hearing what everyone's been saying, after what Dean was saying about, you know, stripping everything back, right, right back, right back, right back. All I hear when that's being said is just relaxing into it. Yeah. Be comfortable. Enjoy the comfort of it, whatever you have you want to say. I remember when Bob said that to me and then we proceeded to just sit there and not say anything for, I'm pretty sure probably like, Almost an hour, just sat there. We didn't say anything, just relaxing, just being.
Yeah.That's a wonderful, wonderful pointer. That's the only advice one who is non-doer can get. Because relaxation doesn't take any doership. It's nothing. Relaxation is non-doing. Relax means stop. Beating around the bush stop going crazy about shit trying to work it out figure it out just just settle down settle down relax into it you're already that there's nothing you have to do there is nothing you can do there's no you to do anything at all just get on with it Stop believing you are the doer. Stop it. But who can stop? Who's there to stop? Yeah. Recognize. Recognize that that who you truly are, that which you are, It doesn't even need to stop because it already stopped.
It is the space. It doesn't move. So stop it is the reminder that you are that. You are the one that is already stopped. Resonate with the fact with your true nature. Jenny, would you like to unmute? Yes, when you were asking to see something, then I took my book of notes. And on the 9th of...April, a year ago in 24. This is just a few of the notes I wrote. And it's so funny because it just, when I flipped the page, Tanya said it, so these synchronicities. Everything is just happening. There is no doer. Living much easier when not believing in the thoughts, much less stress on the biological system.
Question your beliefs, thoughts, investigate. Chewing on past events and thoughts is like a dog licking smelly vomit. Oh! Not that there's anything wrong with that. No, I just cracked up when I, and I don't remember if it was you, Kat, who actually said that. I think it was you who said that sentence. I don't think it's all wrong. I got it from Bob. I heard it from Bob, but because it is such a powerful smashing ahead, you know, the association is so repulsive. I even titled one of the meetings, you know, when Bob mentioned on Sunday meetings, I put it as a title of the whole meeting.
Dog always gets back to its own vomit. I love T-Birds. Mmm, tasty vomit.Oh my gosh. And that's that, dear ones. We are at the non-existent time running out and we're going to wish you a wonderful weekend. Love you all. Love you all. Love you all. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Until next time.