American zoom group with Bob from 19th Sept 2022

And. Hey. Wow. It's great rejoicing. There you go. We got it. Yeah, I better start saying something. Otherwise, it'll be nothing to record. Well, you know what we talk about. We want to have the door open. The same old, same old. You're all in already. Always have been and always will be. So we can close the meeting. They call it nonduality. Nonduality is just another label, a way of saying what the Vedic teachings are all about, the nondual teachings. Veda meaning nonduality, one without a second, Only that. That is all there is. You can take that further and realise that everything we talk about is that.

That's the chair you're sitting on, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the clouds, that's the sky. Everything is that. And you must recognise from that that if it's all the one essence, the only thing that discriminates and changes is the word. And the word's not the thing. How many words were you born with? When you look at that, you can't remember your birth. Why? Because you couldn't, didn't have no other words to say, I was born for time. So it's all basically a word which is causing all the problems. And the words can be also useful. But it's not the real, not the reality.

The reality is that one essence, that life, this is animating and expressing through each and every one, so-called, that we say one, we all know it's one, nothing other. So you are already that, that is all that there is. And that sense of presence, the knowing that you are, is the thought, I Am. So when another says stay with the I Am-ness, they're not talking about staying with the word or the thought, I don't know what it represents, but it expresses that sense of presence. Anyone who is not aware of presence right now, anyone who is unaware at all, non-existing, existence consciousness, name and form, that's the five factors.

Anyone who is not existing, anyone who is not conscious, or unaware, Anyone is not loving to be. You don't want to be dead, so you'd rather be alive than dead. You all want to be. So, you see, you're already that. And the way the pattern shapes and forms the body-mind, they say, is my illusion. So it's about manifestation, phenomenal manifestation of body, mind and all the things in this world, the pattern, shapes and forms are all illusory patterns. Just like waves or ripples will appear on the ocean, thousands of them, but it's still nothing but the ocean. Still nothing with water, nothing with the ocean.

So all the appearances in this manifestation are still only the one reality. Absolute affection You can anything to the absolute or the perfect You can take anything away from it So you must already be that absolute. And if you are the absolute or the perfect, it's non-conceptual. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness, that awareness without any concepts. Can anyone be superior to you? Or can you be superior to anyone or inferior to anyone? And what would you want of the other person? If there's no, everything is absolute. Now the absolute as absolute cannot do anything at all. Because how could it be taking something away or changing it?

So what happens, patterns, shapes and forms appear and it's very many differentiating. In this case, these bodies that we are Form appearing in the absolute, which the expressions with words, thoughts and ideas and images come about through. Seemingly separate, but it's inseparable. Like the image in the mirror. You can't say it's not there. Go up and try and try and grab the image, you can't say it is there. So it's appearing there, but it's nothing there in reality. So it's only seemingly so, as they say. It's a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. So, there's some beautiful appearances.

That's all we are, the appearance. So we get lost in this belief we are the person, the separate entity. And it's the word that divides. The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no privileges. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised. Like the smallest distinction, however, when heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. And that's what's happening. The family separated the inseparable and divided the indivisible. And so with that comes a sense of separation, insecurity, vulnerability, because we've learnt these ways. And so all our psychological problems, fear, anger, depression, jealousy, envy, all these things come about because we've taken on the belief I'm not sure if it will be separate.

Why is this belief taken on? Well, then we learn words. And the parish teach you a word. And it might be little Billy, little Jane, little Johnny, or whatever your name might be. Now, when they say the false cannot stand up to investigation, We don't bother to investigate. And so when somebody asks you who you are, and say I am Billy or Johnny or Gene or whatever you want to be, instead of saying I am the great reality, I am already that absolute, I am the perfect. In one essence, the Atman, the one self, can immediately say, I am little Billy, little Donny. So we've separated ourselves and isolated ourselves in that sense of separation, taken ourselves away from the Absolute, Seemingly.

And it's only seemingly so. And so we try, because we think we are, we believe that we are this person, this symbol, this label we put ourselves, this person, this word. And as I say the word not the meal Look at the word See if you can drink the word word water and quench your thirst And the word fire you can cook with it And what this word I or me when you look at it You know, it's just a label. You put on like the name, you put on yourself, it's a label. You know, put on your, the parents put on you. It's a label.

You go into Meyers or one of those big department stores, Coming up with a dress or a coat or something, or bring out the lab, just coming up with a label, you wouldn't be too happy about it because the label is not the thing. And when you realise the word is not the thing, you need to recognise and realise what you are. What you are and you cannot become the thing because becoming implies a future time. That's another thing that needs to be looked at this concept or idea of time. Another thing. And I realize that all this manifestation, including you, me, and everything else, all things.

The sea is a thing, the clouds a thing, the world is a thing. You and I and animals, birds and all things, different names of a common, all appearing in that basic screen. What's the basic screen in which everything appears in? Isn't that space? Anyone who is not in space right now, And can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space? What would it be in? All the ideas of other worlds and different marines and orbs that still have to be in something, have to be in space. But try and find a centre to space, a point where it begins. You can't.

See if it's got any circumference, any boundaries on it anyway. You can't find any boundaries because how can you encapsulate and put that one that is emptiness as nothing and put a boundary around it? You can't. So you and I and all this manifestation are things. And you can't postulate and think of anything that could be outside of space. What will it be? So they call it space-like awareness. This awareness which you're not unaware, which you must be. You can't say what it is really, but you can't negate it, or beingness, awareness. There is an awareness of that being and beingless is not becoming. We think that's the problem.

We think we will become something. If we practice this and practice that, we will become realized or enlightened or one. It's already that. There's no becoming at all. And you know that. You call yourself a human being. Believing God, you call God the Supreme Being. What happens if you take that word supreme off and take the word human off? Try and separate your beingness without the label, without the word. You realize you can't. Can anyone say you are not right now? I am not being. If you're saying it, it means there's something near and able. There's a beingness and I'm being said. No, you're not separate from it.

It's not something hard to get. It's something that you already are and always have been. But because we picked up the words and continued to believe in the words without question and got the ritual pattern of believing we are this separate entity, it's hard to give up or lose sight of now, but regularly. But you wouldn't be listening to this if you hadn't been absolutely satisfied with what we've been taught along the way, with all the religious traditions, with all the rules and regulations and everything else. That would be enough Something might move you to look further look into something else Because you recognise the truth or the reality wasn with you and what you picked up though it was there but wasn understood or recognised It needs to be re-cognised.

It's already cognised, the cognising emptiness. As the Buddha put it, it's the cognising emptiness. We don't cognise the emptiness, it's the emptiness itself. So that has that capacity of cognising. And he pointed that out when he made the statement emptiness is form. We're all forms, patterns, shapes and forms. And everything that's manifestation is pattern, shapes and forms, all appearing on that screen, which is empty, it's no thing, space is no thing. Not a vacuum will avoid zero. But it's no thing. There's not any shape or any form or any beginning or any end. Can some thing come from no thing? It can't. So you and I and everything else are things.

But we're really no thing. We are that one intelligence energy, that one essence. And one pattern shape and form, the great reality, the absolute. It's useless trying to become what you already are. That's why we say the search is the problem. We go on a search thinking we're going to become something. And we'll never remain in that search. We'll never know or understand with what we actually are. If you like to call it God, you are that Godliness. It says in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with the God, the Word was God. That's the label we put on it.

All things were made by him, by the word. And isn't that a fact? The trees, the flowers, the people, the stars, the things, all the things we put words in are made by the word. The word, the label we put on them discriminates them and makes them seem to be separate from the mind, but it's all the way in essence. Come from that primary mode of the universe, of the cosmos. The movement, the sound, the word, we translate as I Am. Instead of I Am as the universal sound, we believe it is this particular entity, the word. The parents told us a little Billy went to Jimmy and I am that.

You are that, of course, because that is everything, everything is that. But we put the word on it and break ourselves down from absolute to human beings, persons, individuals. When you look into it, you see there's less than a grain of sand on the beach. And we think we've got to change the universe and the world. We are the pattern, shapes and forms which that life, energy and intelligence can utilise to help change the world and the universe. As you see, from the caveman to the highly intellectual intelligence, the path of shapes and forms and the reasoning of the path of the earth, the changes come about.

But it's still the one life essence, the one intelligence energy. I don't use the term God because you can get confused with that term and all the different traditions have different labels for God. I use intelligence energy, that's just another label. Intelligence is not your intellects. I'm talking about the way this manifestation is shaped, in shape and form, the oceans, the seas, the stars, the planets, the plants, the animals, the birds, the humans, everything in this manifestation. The way it's shaped, forms, it plays, it's infused with a light and wondrous intelligence. Intelligence is knowing and the knowing is energy. Knowing is something that's vibrating, a movement.

Intelligence energy is the activity of knowing. And isn't that happening to each and every one of you right now? There's a knowingness there, a beingness there, an activity, a life that's patterned, shaping, forming, it's breathing your heart, it's breathing you, growing your hair and your fingernails, digesting your food. It's the very life and living that you are. And we put the human shape and form as me, the person. Be what you are, not what you appear to be. Because if it's a phenomenal manifestation, then the definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly so. But you, in the reality, are a unique expression.

There's no two expressions that are the same. Everything is a unique expression, pattern-shaping, forming. And it's the life that's forming, pattern-shaping and forming, a vibration, a movement of that life energy that's enabling it all to come about. You are that life. As Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. That sense of presence, that I am-ness is a sense of presence. How could you... I don't tell anybody what you are without that word I am. When we say I am this, I am that, I am something else, we don't tell them I am all, there is the only, the Atman, the Brahman self, the Atman, the one is, but the one Atman is not a personal self.

It's only the one essence, the path, the shape and form, experiencing and expressing in your heart that again and again it's being seen there. And again and again it needs to be recognised there. That there's no here without there and there's no there without here. I am the body, I am the mind. Are you? What's the body made up of? Made up of elements, air, earth, fire, water, space, the elements around you, the essence of the food that comes formed on the earth through those elements, and the air, the prana, made of elements. All those elements can be broken down into subatomic particles, into pure energy.

So all the body is is a vibrating pattern of energy. Take the water out of it, see, it wouldn't last too long. Take the fire and the body temperature. Stay, take the breath, stop breathing. How long is your life without those elements? Those elements are all energy. What about this thing called mind? You say, my mind. Again, you say my car, my house, and you know you're not the car or the house. How can you say you have a mind? And if there's such a thing as a mind, show it to me. You realise I can't say there is such a thing as mind without a thought.

And if thought is mind, what's thought? All thought is just sound, noise, word, vibration. It all energy And I think Einstein tells you that doesn he And once and once. It's all that intelligence energy. And you are that point or ceiling which it expresses through the life that it is expressing Take the life out of that body and you've got a corpse. And that corpse, before it rocks and breaks down and disappears, still got eyes, still got hands, still got a heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, all the organs are there that keep it going. Why isn't it going? What's missing? It's the very life itself that's missing.

That life is pure being, awareness, in which it's not expressing through that particular pattern anymore. It's still expressing through everything else. It goes back into the space like awareness in which it all appears. And out of that space, like awareness, more vibrations, more energy appears, another pattern, shape and form, just like The water, sun evaporates, the water at night condenses and cools as this. Comes a cloud, and the cloud comes down as rain. The rain goes into the river, into the stream, back into the ocean again. And again it's evaporated and again goes back. Do you think you'll ever get the same pattern out of the ocean again?

You won't. There is no reincarnation. But ever fresh and ever new pattern, shape and form come out of it. So what is, why is it necessarily necessary to fear death? When you know that you came, that life came upon you, that life is living you like now, it's using that pattern, the pattern will break down, the shape and form of that, but where does it go? Back into the screen. And the fact is I know that also, that I'm not fearful of death anymore, and lots of other things are happening. Life lives on life, as Nisargad said. Out of life more life comes. There's only life.

So he's telling you again, out of life more life comes. There's a tree out here in the garden, the pine tree, hundreds of pine cones were forming on it. I Am. I Am. I Am. I Am. I Am. These human forms. How did you come about? Life lives on life and out of life more life comes. You came from the life of your parents and they came from the life of their parents. In that animating life essence, the pattern you called your father through the food he's eating and the breath enabling that pattern of that light particle called the sperm to form. That sperm was suffused with intelligence, the same intelligence that you are, the life, it knew what to do.

And the same in your mother, that life as your mother enabled in that pattern. A microscope of a cortical leg or an ovum to form. That ovum was suffused with intelligence with life, it knew what to do. It attached itself to all the uterus and the sperm, knowing what to do, swam to the ovum. When those two came together, the life, the pneumatic intelligence engine, under the genes and everything, formed the little embryo, the little fetus, which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then and what are you doing about it now as a person You doing any of the living or is the living happening expressing as you And it's the life itself in you that's doing it all.

And you are that life. Be what you are. Not the person. Not the body-mind. That's what is uniquely brought into expression, that's what it's utilising through. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity and see where it takes you. Take away a lot of the fear, a lot of the anxiety, a lot of the stress, if it's recognised and really resonated. And let be as it is. But when we keep trying to alter, modify and correct it, it causes all sorts of fears and anxieties, distress and unhappiness to come about. But left as it is, it unfolds naturally and effortlessly, just like it grew in the womb.

You weren't doing anything about it then. And you weren't doing anything about it for the first couple of years you were born. Because you had, there was no personality. You had no words. But life was living. And functioning capacity of knowing grew and you learnt words to be able to function much better. In these patterns, shapes and forms. But the thing is to recognise and know the truth, that you are already that. That's what it's all about. Brought you into existence. You can't say it is, you can't say it's not. To enjoy it, Why is he? Don't take yourself to be the separate entity that's unhappy, sad, miserable.

Be the Absolute, the Totality, in which the peace and the wellbeing, the love and the joyousness, the pure effect of being, knowing and loving to me, the Satya to me. Be that as you know. So you can all get into it now and tell us all about it. Watch and recognise what you know. You might be able to put it in different words than me that somebody else might resonate with. But it's that resonation and recognising and knowing that you are. So away you go. I have Ernie with me here. You've seen Ernie. He's been on the Zoom with you quite a few times. He's visiting today.

Hi, Ernie, where are you from? Sunshine Coast. Nice. Wait, now you're getting some cold weather for a change. There was a comment that I think I read earlier. I'm trying to see if... Let's see. Ben wrote, I just saw a verse from John 1.1 quoted in agreement number one of the four agreements. I'm not really sure what he's talking about with that, but he commented on that. Ben, if you wanna jump in, you're welcome to jump in. It's the beauty of this is that everybody can. Oh, anybody else want to jump in? I'm often left. So one of my mentors is this fellow Lionel Ketchian who runs the Happiness Club and I actually first broached mentioned, I don't think we ever discussed Sailor Bob together before and we just discussed them within the last week or so and he says, Oh yeah, I know who he is.

He knows a lot of people over the So what he started doing was a series on the four agreements. And we got into the whole thing about the word The agreement number one is be impeccable with your word With the word being one of the fundamental things in the you want to say in creation or whatever So the opening verses, John, first there was the word, then there was the word was with God and the word was God. I hope I quoted it accurately. And Sailor Bob was, I guess by, if you want to call it synchronicity, was mentioning that same verse in his opening monologue.

And I said, that's quite a coincidence because, I mean, I can't speak. I'm only new to Sailor Bob's teachings, so I really don't know well. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it well, but my impression is that Ruiz, who teaches the Toltec wisdom, is pretty similar to this concept of how, you know, existence began. Both talking about the words and how it impacts our, I don't know, what do you want to say, our psyche, our way of thinking, our outlook. So I thought that was a pretty neat synchronicity that, you know, I just saw that, I heard that from Lionel a couple days ago, and now Aseelah Bhab's mentioning it in his talk, in his opening talk, and I thought I'd bring that together for what it's worth.

By the way, Julie, I sent the links to some videos because I told a lot of people don't have the money or the wherewithal to read books or buy the books. And some people like me, you like to listen to videos and audios while driving, not pretty hard to read while you're driving. It's a little bit challenging. So I got into the four agreement I was doing that today, so I came across that. I also came across, courtesy of you, Sailor Bob's YouTube, which are very helpful way of doing these teachings, because I think it really is a very powerful way of learning when you're watching the YouTube and you hear it and you see the person talking.

That's very, you know, very, very helpful. And that's basically it, I think, right? Thank you. Does that cover all the bases? Would you agree with that, Bob? Was I on the right track or is Ruiz and you on two completely separate paths? I don't know. Well, I don't know, Ruiz. Everyone's that anyway. He's Don Miguel Ruiz, the Four Agreements, and he's basically one of the, from the Castaneda tradition, well, not exactly, but the Toltec tradition would be more accurate, the wisdom. And I don't know how close that parallels your teachings or Nisargadatta's teachings, I don't know. Okay, I will mute. Donna? Donna Lassner He said he was unmuting.

So, yeah, he was talking about, like, my understanding of what he was talking about was Don Miguel Ruiz wrote a book called The Four Agreements and one of the agreements is keep your word When I hear that statement myself, I think of like what he's saying is being honest or do what you say you're going to do. And I don't know how relevant that is, but you do talk a lot about the word. You've said in the other spiels in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. That's all God is, is a word. And that's how I've heard you talk about the word.

The word is just a thought. It's a movement of energy. It's a vibration. Other than that is we've got meaning put on it. Go ahead, don't let you talk. Well, the ensign meaning again, when I started quoting a bit of it at the start, that finishes up words. The way is beyond language, beyond the words. There's no yesterday, no tomorrow, no today. Just using yesterday, tomorrow and today as words or any other words. It's beyond words. And you know that yourself, but the first couple of years of your life, you had no words, but you were alive. So we're relying on words and believing words now, but you got along quite all right without the words.

The animals, the birds, the insects haven't got any words as such. They have sounds, which can be warnings and some, you know, I said it'll be a little bit of this third year and bring the others around. I was going to be assigned as a hawk or something in the sky, gonna get me. And others, you know, very amazing call. They get along without the word. And they haven't got the psychological crap that goes on with us. Without, cause they haven't got the words. So, you look at some of those documentaries, then the lines are reading something or other, tearing it apart alive and all the rest of it.

Not the same as we would carry it around with us, which we do for days, weeks and years, carry around these words and labels and beat ourselves up with the word when it's not necessary. The words are very useful, but they're self-destructive also. Bob, I have an observation about that. First, thank you for your spiel. And it's funny, I was talking to a friend who lives with her son and his mate and her grandchild. And she was watching the son go through a lot of suffering in relationship to something for a very extended period of time. And when she was talking to me, she was talking about the dynamic and she said that one of the things she said to him was that I also went through a very similar long period of time where basically they were just both of them were just miserable.

And she said, but that was part of what made me who I am. And I have heard so many people, and particularly spiritual people, say, well, it was part of what made me what I am today. And the truth is that I don't know that at all. Like, I don't know whether or not some terrible or some incredibly beautiful thing that happened in my life years ago had any impact on what's happening right now. I have no idea, but I know that it was kind of a I know that it was a concept for her when she was sharing that with her son. So I'm curious what I mean, I'm curious about what anybody has to say in relationship to that.

Like how, how would there be someone that even knows that? I'll babble on about that with you. I mean, I heard the expression, I think it was just an Alan Watts song, and he talks about it starts now. So the past doesn't even exist. Now is fresh and new. Right? It doesn't exist without a thought. And at the same time, how you're unfolding now does seem to be like they, I think I've even heard say, Kat say something about the butterfly can flap its wings and cause a tsunami. I don't know where I have never been able to follow through on that and verify scientifically that that's accurate or anything but on the one hand I think you're both correct.

Now that now can be fresh and new if you're not bringing what seemingly was with it, right? And at the same time, I don't know, I'll shut up. I'd rather hear Bob say what he has to say about that. Well also I just want to say I think that it's important to mention that the stories we tell ourselves about how we get from A to B, they're just stories. I mean, they're just stories. Yeah. That's it, we're trading stories all the time. Yeah. In my own case, I thought that I had some doership, I believed in that, but I finished it. I was an alcoholic.

When I was a kid, I didn't sit out and say, Daddy, when I grow up, I'm going to be an alcoholic, I'm going to be a drunk and do all the things that drunks do. I was a kid, a couple of Alkies lived in a humpy down the road on the way to school. They'd come out and run chases. They used to laugh at me. I thought that was my doing and didn't believe anything at all. But it took me to the Fellowship of IA where they talked about a higher power. And an incident happened there that made me look into this stuff. And I can see now, and I thought, well, that whole confident part was my own doing.

But that it Apparently it seemed that this pattern shape and form had to do with it Right the stubbornness that was keeping it in its isolation and its separate entity in the belief it was this individual, this person, made it look at something else the same as making you people look at something else that wasn't good enough. And luckily it turned my life around. I'm getting a bit long in the tooth now. I reckon I've had 50 odd years, 60 years of boneless living. Might have been dead long ago. That's a long story also. It's all story, stories and words, based on words, as they tell us.

Years ago in the fairy tales, once upon a time, every story takes place in time. Investigate time. See that time is just another conceptual idea of an image. There is only this omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience. The one essence that is happening, shaping, and forming. Experience, expression, and living. Phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. They call it the play of consciousness, the dance of Sheba, khaki dances and the world appears vibrant. The way is beyond language. There's no yesterday, no today, no today. There's only life. And you are that. That's about all I can say. And I tell you, know the truth and the truth will set you free.

What are you free from? The belief. The belief of the separate entity, the sense of separation, the individual. The dictionary definition of belief is a non-questioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Meaning we haven't reasoned it out, we've just taken it for granted, which we do when you're told you're Billy or Johnny, I am little Johnny, you never look at it. Except in some alleged fact, without positive knowledge or prayer. And the false cannot stand up to investigation. I'll tell you that in a minute. That's a fact that you're looking at. See these things and know these things mean something might and probably won't, especially in a different way to what's being said here because you've got more better educated and more intelligent than what I am.

This is how it expresses here. And it's good enough for me. There's enough joy and well-being here to keep it going. Turn the life around, and it brings things to it that I didn't believe were possible. I am a member of the National Association of Indigenous Peoples of the United States. I am a member of the National Association of Indigenous Peoples of the United States. Thank you for this, Theo. It was just like there was just of course so many pointers as always and I guess, you know, speaking to what Maureen was talking about and also I guess what Ben mentioned, you know, and of course what you mentioned, Bob, this is not about becoming Becoming implies there's time.

Becoming implies there's getting from A to B. And on top of that, becoming implies that there's a somebody to become something. And, you know, and I guess this, this four agreements for me falls into the category of, you know, the teachings that teach becoming. I going to read a few more questions I was in all the seeking that was going on and so becoming good and there was somebody trying to do something to be good You know, there was someone doing something to be honest. There was a somebody trying to do something to be kind. And there was nothing wrong in any of that. It's just that eventually it didn't work because that was all duality and there was doership and the thing that was trying to become doesn't exist.

So there was also a lot of frustration and, you know, why can't I do it perfectly, consistently, well enough? And finally, of course, the favorite one is try harder. So it all led to wonderful frustration, because it all led to, in the story, as Bob pointed out, you know, because this is all the story, of course, because nothing ever really happened. Nothing ever really happens, because there's only nothing expressing as everything. But in the story, it allowed this body-mind to be open to this message. Because until then, it was all about, I'm going to do. I'm going to do, I'm going to find the right thing to do, and I'm going to do it the right way.

And I'm going to do the best that I I am the one who can do more than that. So becoming is really a hopeless thing at the end of the day. I like to say the better a becoming teacher is, the quicker you realize that it's all very hopeless. So that's really what came up listening this morning. And also, you know, what really hit this morning was non-conceptual awareness. There isn't anybody doing that. There isn't a JP trying to become or trying to be non-conceptual and trying to become non-conceptual awareness. That's just more story. This just is. And there isn't anything more to say about that.

Thank you, Bob. Thank you, everyone. Great to see everyone. Thank you, JP. Perhaps another way of looking at it is something like the Four Greenments or meditation or any kind of method is almost like training wheels on a bicycle. It's sort of there to help you, but if like JP say you try harder, you put a second pair of training wheels on and a third pair and it's like just one more pair will do it, but in reality you have to let go of the training wheels and ride the bicycle. Yeah, yeah. Hi everyone, thank you Bob, thank you everyone. I can relate so well to what JP and and Carl mentioned as well because I've been trying and trying to be that unfixated awareness, pulling myself back from the entanglement of the mind.

I am a person who is not blind. Because Bob keeps saying, be as you are, and I've been trying to be as I am. And of course that doesn't work. And it just happened that you find yourself in that space where everything is happening in front of you, but if you try to get there, it's just never going to happen. Getting yourself in that space, there's no one getting there, it's just happening or it's not happening. And in that space, it's just such relief from the vortex of the mind, from the story. It's so quiet and so peaceful. But the thing is, you either find yourself there or you don't.

And I was so happy to find myself there just this past week a couple of times. I just found myself in that space. I was who I was. I got a taste of who I truly am. But I'm getting... Now that the wrong language It not that I getting pulled back It that the trying comes back trying to get back to where I remember I was But I know it's fruitless, I know it's not helping. And yet, when I'm caught in the mind, there's nothing more I want to do than just sit and watch what's happening. Which is different from what used to be because before I used to force myself to sit and watch, but now it's just the most beautiful thing that I could do in that moment.

So it's just, it has a different flavor. Yeah, that's just my experience. Thank you. I was thinking about something that JP said. I don't have any background in AA, so maybe you can clarify this. I'm just kind of just reminding me of something that Jane and Sen and some other stuff about. You surrender your addiction, you see your... And you let a power quote unquote greater than you to take over. You're bypassing the personal self, getting that bit out of the way, right? You know, the part that gets you in trouble in the first place, right? The little me. Tell me if I'm wrong because I never really did AA, but my understanding of that is that When you get that...

Apparently I'm breaking up some. Got bad internet, which is why Maureen's helping out. Thank you, Maureen. Can you hear me now? All I'm saying is it seems to me that to the degree that I think I'm going to fix it, there's a me that's being bought into, and that can get in the way. Yet, if I let go of needing anything to shift, change, modify, all that just sort of happens, but perhaps in a way better than I could have planned or even imagined, just from stopping trying to be the one who fixes. I don't know if I made any sense here. My internet good enough for you to hear me or can you hear me?

No? Okay. Sorry. I can hear you. I can hear you, Julia. Can you hear me? I can hear the question clear enough to speak to that. The me that tries to control everything is the same me that tries to let go. So it's not gonna, that's not gonna work either. And step one, you know, if it's seen clearly enough, so to speak, will lead, you know, the person, alcoholic, synonymous to the same conclusion. That they're hopeless, essentially. Seemingly of hopeless states of mind and body. That's the exact phrase from the program. That's the realization at the end of the first step, that the body-mind is seemingly hopeless.

And of course there's the word seemingly, which is wonderful. Thank you. Good stuff there. Coming through. I was just going to say... Go ahead. No, it's okay. No, I'm just saying like, so this realization that you are already that or you are that, it's not really something that's like inherent, like you own it. Like each one has its own realization like you own it. It's there whether you like it or not. The realization be there, I think. I'm not sure, but it's there, I think so, regardless realization. See, realizing that you are that or not, but it's there, but you don't own it, I think.

Whether you think so or not is there. What's that, right? Whether you think so or not is there. That's right, yes. Whether you think it or not, the realization is there. Also too, when you mentioned Bob that you can't go back, there's an Indian analogy regarding that, is that when you churn milk and you turn it into butter, you can't turn the butter back into milk. Once you realise that you're the supreme Brahman, the Atman, the intelligent energy, you can't go back. You know that's the case. Whether you take responsibility, or you made a nice cake, or, geez, I love the way you dance. You know, you know, it's not you that's doing all that, but I mean, you just respond.

Yeah, I'm really good at that because you've got to get on with life in the world. And knowing that you're the intelligent energy just helps you get through that. Nothing sticks. So you can accept praises or criticism, but you know that in reality there's no person here that's doing all that. Yeah, that's all I'm about to say. Just the being, the knowing, and loving the being. Thank you, Elder. Thanks. Come on, Maureen. You know, I had the funniest conversation today where I can't remember what the context was, but I said something like this, this is it isn't about claiming something. And, and the person said to me, Well, surely you're somewhere.

I just found that so funny. Well, surely you're somewhere. Like, you know, I was Where's Waldo or something and they were trying to locate me in a certain part of space. It was just really funny. I mean, she had brought me like five different books that she was reading from different folks and I mean it was all sweet and innocent. But yeah, it was, it was, she was in full-blown seeking mode. Yeah, that's, that's just where she was at. Yeah. So she was shooting for getting somewhere. Yeah. My name is Sean. And I'm actually founder today. And I live in the United States. So when I found your website and you put on the United States, I was looking at the time tables, I said, you know, I, gee, this is great, you know, but just to say how I got here in the last two weeks, we were online with Zoom studying Krishnamurti, funny enough.

I was reasoning my way through Krishnamurti. I've been doing it for 40 years. But there was something came up and I and somebody was talking about they were coming from the Advaita tradition and they said you know it's just here and I'm kind of going I didn't get that from Krishnamurti. I didn't get this I was just here. I got this thing well you know you got to kill the I'm kind of going to say, but earlier this year, we had an online group where we were studying some of the Krishnamurti writings from the 1930s. And he was in a different mode then but he talked about he said well why don you you know see the wind the sunlight in the trees the movement of the water the air that blowing through the And I kind of going hang on a minute What started to occur to me was that you know we come at life from our own experience So that's the person, but we stay in that group.

But then I had read Nisargadatta about 40 years ago. I read I Am That, that was my earlier, but it didn't stay with me. But then the whole thing occurred to me that if life is alive, the experience of life is really essentially an experience of the non-linear. In other words, we see life going from here to here to here, but actually the experience of life is like a flesh. It's flesh. And I said, how do you stay open to that flesh? And so I was reading some advice earlier. I picked out all the people I could find. I started reading and one guy started going with, well, We're in being, consciousness, existence.

Then he started talking about, well, beyond consciousness and existence, there's the absolute. And then he said, if you don't do anything, you know, just move back into yourself, you come upon the absolute. He said the problem is the absolute, you can't be conscious of it. But if you think you have arrived there, he said you haven't because you're still the person. I'm kind of going, that's very, very, very kind of tricky there, that we want to reach a state in which we are unconscious. But I kept going with it, and I just, I've come back to this, just the sense that, you know, today then I was reading, well, the guy said, you are that, but that is, well, first of all, it's always true.

Secondly, it is true whether you are conscious or not. If I am asleep it is true, if I am awake it is true. But there is no path. This is the interesting thing. Krishnamurti always said there is no path to truth. Truth is a pathless path. But in the sense that this is a truth or a fact, there is no way through our regular consciousness that we can walk like a go across the road and there it is. We can't. So that's that's and so then I started reading Sailor Bob and then I see you're online. I said, well, I had experience in 1986 in February when I, January, I wrote out to the KFA in California.

I said, I really need to, you know, I've been studying this teacher for about 30 years. I think it's time I went out and, you know, I saw, I attended a meeting in live. And they wrote back in February, sorry to say, but he's just died. You know, if you get some live teachers, you better attend while you can. And there was no Zoom in those days. But that whole thing of that life is alive, it's nonlinear, it's always available, kind of should wake us up a little bit. Because I don't know that we can ever be established in a state of the absolute and know we're So we are there because we'll always have to experience of the relative, if you will.

But, but I, but the reason I mentioned all this is because we have we haven't in the last 2000 years opened up our consciousness beyond the formulation of established religious thought. And this, when I come back now to Advaita after 30 years, I looked at the sensibility that something is there, but also we should be open to that. And that's kind of where I'm at because it's not a fixed thing. And so that's what's just all happened in the last two weeks. So I thought I'd share that to you. Back to you. Beautiful. Aren't you glad you're doing the calls on Mondays now, Bob? She said, aren't you glad you're doing calls on Mondays now?

Monday was a good idea. She's glad you're doing calls now on Monday. She's glad that you're doing calls on Monday. I'm not what what's going on there. Are you talking about Maureen Maureen just invited me to speak and I going to welcome Sean I hope I said your name right Correct, yeah, thank you. 30 years and coming back. There is no time but welcome back anyway. Well, no, but you know, we pursue our religious, our spiritual practices as we see. But when I retired, I decided maybe one of the things I should do is that I should review the spiritual practices I had pursued and see if I could somehow put them all together in a way that I would be able to do.

I wouldn't have to be reviewing them, you know, that I could finally, you know, tie up the bag and say, okay, I get what that's about. You know, I don't think we'll ever get to where, what that's about. But, but, but the fact I, I mean, I say 30 years, I mean, time is time, you know. John, I think that the people in this room would say that you are already there and there's no getting there and you found us finally. Deep, deep work is here. You're there now. Yes, I'm here now, but I want to know that I'm here now. I think there's kind of a difference.

So, read Bob's books. I see you're a reader. Read Bob's books. Oh, I got four of his books today. So absolutely. That's what you did. Yeah, you're probably you're probably hearing a lot from me next week. No, of course we have to study. But and Sean Bob does individual sessions too. And it's just a delight. He he's just wonderful. He he will speak with you on on the phone or on Zoom. But, you know, just the two of you too. Well, thank you. Yeah, I read that, but I like the group interaction. You know, in a sense, when you're with a group, you're always receiving some information that drops in on you anyway, or you appreciate that everybody is in the same space, you know.

So because of COVID, I think we spent two years on Zoom, but that experience was actually fruitful for me because I realized at one point that I was actually having original thoughts, if you will, and not following the laid out path. So I found, so, but even relating to people on Zoom was a real experience, even though it's not person to person, if you will, you know, so it's all good. It's all good. Go ahead, sorry. Yeah, all right. There used to be a practice called, didn't have a name, but just being aware of awareness. So you're sort of aware that you're aware. Yeah. And that was okay for a while until Bob said, oh, look, you know, the awareness is constant.

You don't have to be aware of awareness. And if you feel like doing it from time to time, just have a look and see if awareness is still there. Bob saying that, I thought it was absurd because of course the awareness is always there. It's there from the point of wake up, in fact, even when I'm asleep. Talk about being asleep. This true story, three days ago there was a knock on my door and it was 2.15 in the morning. I couldn't believe I heard a knock, you know, like I'm asleep and here's a knock on the door at 2.15. And I just waited and there it was again, another knock on the door.

So I got up and yelled out the door, who's there? You know, because I'm trying to appear stronger than what I was. And he said, it's the police. And I said, okay, fine. Wait until I put my pants on. So I sort of have a look and it was, because I've got a curtain near the door and it was the police. And he was looking for somebody that used to own the property that I've got. Anyway I playing that as it is What the point to that is that even though I was asleep I could hear a knock on the door You see so awareness never rests Is what I'm trying to point out, Sean, it never is.

So and that's you. And that's the final point. It's not going to go any further. You can't go any deeper than that. That's it. And that's without the mind. There's no mind functioning there. See? I get the gist of it, yeah. Sorry? I get the gist of what you're saying. There you go, that's right. That's it. There's no more to go. Once you realise that, and understanding is everything. Understanding that. I think Bob pointed out constantly that understanding, I think you do, I don't know if you still do Bob, understanding is everything. Every understanding is to me obviously a helpful thing, but at the same time I think I've noticed in myself there's been a lot more attention in the understanding involves a thought, doesn't it?

Sometimes I need to understand to be. Oh, well, I don't know. You know, I don't think a thought's required. Although you know, to understand, yeah exactly, it's to stand under. I was thinking about your question about wanting to know that you know. Oh yes, or who knows. Oh yeah, look you can do that. So they just do that until the cows come home You know, because what that does, it creates a doubt, right? You can go, oh, who knows? And, you know, who is that? That's, you know, is there something there? You know, but there's no doubt here. Right, so, so, and, but you see, you're playing with those, you know, like, as I said earlier on, You don't have to play.

I'm here because I enjoy this company. I don't have to be here. I don't have to go to Bob's meetings. But I enjoy it. I can't have conversations, as I said earlier before, I can't have conversations like this with the crowd I hang around in my everyday world. I don't want to have conversations with them like this. I'm happy for them to be as they are. And I have no compulsion to change their beliefs. Do you see what I'm saying? So I'm happy for them to be who they are. I'm sorry I interrupted. Did you want to jump in and say anything else, Bob? Did you want to jump in and say anything else?

I saw a look on your face. Did you want to? That's amazing how everybody is putting in some so beautiful. Instead of initially nobody was saying anything much now the resonation is such that it's coming out of each and every one of you much better than what's coming out here. It's beautiful to see. And talking about being heartfelt, knowing what the heart is, not the physical heart, the core of being, the symbol of the spirit. It resonates here wonderfully and it's good to see and hear you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you Bob, love you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.

Lots of love. Thank you, Bob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. Love you all. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Lots of love. Thanks for leading, Maureen. Love you. Thank you. Thanks for making it in the States, Julia. Yay.