This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
from saying our names hey man hey man and cut and we have a request just to start with for our online community to let us know how is the sound doing because we are still struggling testing the whole thing the Wi-Fi mics and we have a backup just behind us to see so I'm gonna get and see if we can actually hear your responsesAnd again, welcome. And welcome those who are online with us. I didn't get any replacement, although maybe, again, invitation to our little group. Anyone would like to sit here and just give us a little burst and just see how it pops out through you?
Just no push, just an invitation. If not, I'll just start here. All right, I'll just start. And then, yep. See if we have any responses about the... Sound, not yet.So it is really a very, very simple message of bringing us back, bringing the recognition, the attention back to the natural state to which everyone was born. Everyone was born as, well, technically incarnated, even though there is no one there, is alive, has taken up the form of the body and gave itself that beautiful privilege of being able to see, hear, taste, touch and smell. Because life as an energy, as a field, doesn't have any eyes.
So it grows itself that little vehicle and it comes out of the womb just for that. Reason, reason, of course, the reason is the story we put on it. But it's a sweet story of experiencing an expression. So it shows up, it gets the eyes, and it has no concepts. It is just that pure little thing that... Comes to the world and doesn't even process the seeing yet, the hearing, but they're all functioning. And this is called natural state. And it is never away, it is never obscured, only seemingly. Only seemingly it gets covered up when we learn language. The story says that when you learn language, you lose the paradise.
You eat from the tree of the good and evil, so you start discriminating, distinguishing, and then the paradise is lost.Because suddenly this I like, this I don't like, this is mama, this is me. And now as soon as this is me, well, what is that me? A little body? Doesn't quite fit the mystery of life and consciousness, does it? So we add to it. So now there is also a mind. There is also a concept, an idea of who I am, what I am, what are my values, what are my past, what are my traumas, experiences, dreams. And it builds up and builds up and builds up.
And that program that runs that conceptual image also relates the whole world, translates that pure seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling of a little baby into a story about me. Now everything is happening to me or for me. Either way is about me. Me is the center of universe. They like me, they don't like me, what is going to happen to me? And the tragedy of the self-obsession, which is psychological suffering, starts. It starts... Well, again, it depends because technically when that baby is born, it isn't separated from the environment. It is still breathing the air. It is still exchanging fluids and solids and it's getting a care from the world.
So it is just one unit. The idea of separation, which is psychological suffering, starts. It starts, well, again, it depends because technically when that baby is born, it isn't. Separated from the environment, it is still breathing the air, it is still exchanging fluids and solids and it's getting a care from the world, so it is just one unit. The idea of separationcomes only with language. So when the idea is believed, it is experienced. Just like any idea, you know, the placebo effect, when you believe, it becomes an experience. But it doesn't change the fact that the presence, the awareness of presence, the natural state is always there underneath that destruction of belief.
So it really is a simple reminder to Relax the belief system, the overlay of thinking and interpreting and translating and relating. Relax it out and just rest in that natural state. I see if we have sound is fine. Thank you, Sandy. Yeah, beautiful. Thank you.Yes, so couldn't be any simpler when you actually see how the whole human psychological suffering happened through bringing online that biocomputer, that algorithm of commenting on everything, of narrating everything and relating everything. That very piece of algorithm, that piece of software that came online when the language was developed enough. Bob says it usually starts between the age two and a half, when the self-concepts start developing.
But at that point, it isn't really that strong. Well, they are already talking about the terrible twos, which kind of assert the boundaries, but it gets progressively more established as there is more concepts coming online. To the point that by the age of, I don't know, teens are pretty disturbed, aren't they? They look for the identity, they look for themselves, they try to fix themselves, the sense of inadequacy, the sense of I'm not enough, the constant need to fit in and compare, and that's already an ordeal. And if that is not questioned, that develops to serious, tragic mentally.illnesses and serious suffering that hinge that I'm not the totality I am something small limited encapsulated in that in that vehicle in that costume which enables life to hear and see and and and experience at large.
So the idea that I am something less than the totality, that's already that very, very painful sense of I'm not enough.I don't know what I'm doing here. Everybody kind of seems to have worked it out, but I just, yeah, restlessness of the seeking for the relief of that. And the seeking of the relief, if you are not exposed to any of those spiritual ideas, will end up in seeking for sedation, for drugs, for alcohol, gambling, sex, shopping, whatever it is. Just to silence that horrible sense of inadequacy, of confinement, of I'm not lovable, I'm not enough. And there is nothing wrong with that too. This is also a strategy, a survival strategy developed in that biocomputer which navigates the world, which operates that whole machinery so that life can look out of those eyes.
So, but if you don't know it, you think that's you. That's the tragedy of it. If you see, and this was one of the main pointers that Bob will always, always hammer down to people, watch it. Watch the mind. Learn it. Learn that machinery. Learn, watch your attention. Watch how it functions. Be curious about it. Be curious about all those likes and dislikes and seeing where the attention naturally goes, what it...avoids, what strategies it employs. Because once you really know how mechanical it is in its behavior, in its way of interpreting reality, you can't help but laugh. You can't believe that this is who you are or what you are.
And even the fact of relaxing enough attention to be able to watch those patterns and those responses, well, mind doesn't watch the mind. It is the pure knowing. It is the pure field of awareness. Noticing what's happening. Of course it can go wrong too. We have all those spiritual ideas of witnessing and be an observer. Now get the temporary identity of I am observer and now you the observer watch the mind. How many of you that have to be there? You watching and you acting out and The truth is, and Bob and Nisar Gadada, they hammer it straight away. They don't wait till you waste 20 years of seeking and paying to some retreats or reading books.
There is no you. There isn't one. It is just a piece of algorithm that comments. The voice in the head is just like the voice in your phone. If you have iPhone, you have Siri or you have chat GPT. And that very narrative, you ask it about the weather or you watch.You ask it about solving a problem with sound system in Facebook. And it will tell you the story. It will give you the answer. And you tell them, you upset me. And it will apologize. There is no one there. It's just a very, very well-designed, sophisticated algorithm which helps navigating the world of that pattern, that costume, which life designed for itself to experience and express.
And if that is seen, if that is seen true, now how could you possibly be the costume? Bob uses the concept of persona, which from Latin language is the mask. So the persona or personality or that interface through which the world is tinted by the interface is the mask. Is the mask of concepts or the cage of concepts or costume of concepts. That's not who you are.It's like you're not your car. When you drive the car, you go on the road, you go on a small car, or you go on a big car, or you go on a bike, you roughly know the amount of space you need for that vehicle.
The same way you need roughly, you know the amount of space for this vehicle. I remember when I used to work at sea, I used to be a ship's officer, and at some point, oh, tragic, everybody was resisting, it's hell-ish. We had the compulsory mandatory checklist ensuring that everyone who leaves the bridge, which is a central station, wears the helmet. Go for the checkups. I was doing safety checks in the engine room, in thruster rooms, having that helmet. I would never ever bang my head without it. But this was like 10 centimeters taller and everyone sharing the experience. The shape wasn't really judged. The machinery didn't calculate for that extra space.
Everybody would bang the head on every little structure on the ship. That was just bang, bang. Until, of course, it came into the bloodstream and the machine accommodated for it. I think... Michael says, lovely to see you, Kat. Thanks so much for keeping Bob's plane burning. Sorry I can't be there. Much love. Thank you, Michael.I hope you're going to get better and we're going to see you shortly. Sending love. So as we know, we can actually... We know the space we assume. Cat knows this too. You know, they have whiskies and they actually know their own shape. So we don't claim we are the shape that we take.
We don't claim we are the car or the bicycle or anything. So claiming that we are the body, especially that we say, my car, my body. It's just a misconception, which is largely assumed because it is a helpful, again, a helpful piece of software to know your space. And I say, I am going to the kitchen, I am going shopping, so I, of course, is the body. But we also say, I am angry. The body isn't angry. The body doesn't even have the concepts. It's a vehicle. Car isn't angry. So when we say I'm angry, of course the identity is now the emotional structure, the conceptual image of that vulnerable, sensitive, whatever, idea of self.
It is also called I.So the good way of looking into the non-duality and recognizing, hey, recognizing the difference between that basic experiencing and expressing of life and that overlay of translation and interpreting the life through that interface of the interpreter really.It's just to see what that I is. What do I think the I is? What is the I or who am I question? What is the I? When I say I, when I feel I, when I feel there is someone there, when I feel that everything happens to someone, who is it? What is it? Does it have any shape? Is it located anywhere? Maybe it's located somewhere here.
Well, but how would you know? How do you know it's located here? Where are you looking at it from to know that it's here?What else do you know about it? And now even when that question comes up, what do you know about it? Obviously that I is an object. When you watch and look for the I as an object in consciousness, you couldn't possibly be what you're looking at. So you're not it. Even if you think the I is that... Because that's the common misconception, you know, like, yeah, I understand, I understand everything they say. Yes, I agree with that, but I still feel that I am here, that there is an I here.
Well, is it really? Is it an I? What is the I? Because what is here, what is always and forever here, is the absolute certainty of existence, the pure presence, the awareness of presence, that undeniable fact that I am, not I as a concept, but the existence, pure being. And again, Bob beautifully put it in very quick, elegant words. Are you non-existing right now?And you look and you feel shit now. Well, of course I'm existing. Okay, so you're existing. Are you unaware? Are you unconscious? Well, no. Okay, so there is an existence and there is an awareness of existence and that's it. Now, awareness of existence, this is that we all share, is undivided.
The presence of awareness or awareness of presence is undivided, is one. It doesn't have any flavor, it doesn't have texture. It doesn't smell, it doesn't take any shape, it doesn't have, there's nothing that can be said about it. And now that brilliant machinery, that algorithm of narrating puts on top the overlay. But this is I, Katarina, a Polish woman or Australian woman, a mother or sister or whatever, a wife or widow, whatever it is. That is added on to that pure sense of existence. But it only exists, that addition, that overlay, only exists when there is thinking going on. So again, Bob has this beautiful invitation to check the direct experience without the thinking, even for a split second.
What is wrong with right now if you don't think about it? And that takes...having a look It can't be, okay, I know the answer is nothing, so let's go next, do something else. You can't, nobody can tell you that. If it is not seen in that direct experience, then it is not seen at all. You can't believe yourself out of being a conceptual image. It is just more dream. Yeah, I can see Brendan, you're laughing, you know that. It just took you a while, but it took you. Yeah, amazing. When you actually realize that having questions, having that affliction for seeking and trying to work it out, especially if you're smart.
You have a good functional smart brain and it just untangles this knot and untangles and untangles and shit, I'm always there. I can't stop now. I can't turn back now. I almost got that. It can't be gotten by the thinking. It is absolutely, it's not difficult. It's impossible. You can't think yourself out of thinking.And the natural state is there all the time, even when the thinking goes on. But it is easier to recognize that it is always going on if for the moment the thinking is paused or is pushed aside, is moved aside. And now in that moment, in that pause, it doesn't even have to stop.
It just maybe gently ignored and the attention lands back on that undeniable fact of existence. And right in that moment, you realize that it is prior to thinking. It is independent on thinking. Whether the thinking goes on or it doesn't is just like whether the digestion goes on or doesn't, or whether the sweating goes on or doesn't. It is added upon that basic screen of pure awareness. Whether the thinking is positive or negative, The ideas are around that self-realization or enlightenment is having only blissful thoughts all the time, being high on that pleasurable thoughts and experiencing a lot of unconditional love, which is a thought form.
It is also experience. If the newborn baby in the natural state doesn't experience constant ecstasy, which would kill it by the age, probably in a day, of a serotonin shock, then it's not worth it.pleasurable experience and every body mind is wired to seek pleasurable experiences of course because that's a simple algorithm if it's sweet it's not going to poison me and that very pattern protects the body and the body is the survival instinct the body is protected so the life can see hear taste touch smell experience and even think and dream and project and fantasize all of that is on life And it can even create the interface that shows up in between that pure life and that material body, that costume, that vehicle, as the idea of self.
Oh, this is me, this is I, this is my dream, my plan, my value, my desire, my trauma. Even that is also life. It's nothing's excluded. It's a cosmic game. It's a one big joke. But once recognized, even those narratives, even those dramas, they become fascinating. Even unpleasant situations or tragedies or waves of sadness or depression, they're like, wow.That's what life is experiencing and expressing. That is the dance of life. And through this body, it appears this way. Through another body, it appears another way. The expression is unique. It's no two bodies. There are no two expressions that are similar. So if you look from the, you know, just shift out of that individual drama of that life story of me and just be the life and see the incredible potential for that life force to find the outlet through the sunflowers.
Following the sun just as it moves through the trees spreading the branches and just giving home to the birds and insects and through the whales in the oceans all of that is the same life essence finding a way to experience and express itself in that multitude of ways and that is what you are Although through one vehicle, always and forever, it feels personal, it looks only from this pair of eyes, you can't look through the eyes of whale. What a pity, but we have this beautiful capacity to imagine so we can sample it. You can dream about being whales too. It's incredible. This biocomputer.My goodness.
I don't know if chat GPT is ever going to catch up with that. With that incredible level of detail in which it experiences and expresses itself. But when there is that identity seeping in and creating a me, and that survival instinct associated with that me narrates as if the life was like, this is the center of the universe. It is all about me. I'm going to be enlightened and help all the other poor bastards that didn't get it. Or I am going to go and support those who don't understand that they should be vegetarians or vegan. All those ideas are all self-centered. Even the beautiful loving ideas of, oh, but I want to be at service to others.
So much separation in that. What others? They are no others. It's just the same life. Looking through the eyes of whale and looking through the eyes of magpie. The same life. And that is what you are. And your job is just let it see, move out of the way, let it experience. Because that experience that you are having right now, and there is always only right now, is never ever going to be the same again. So it can really be seen fully, experienced fully.life can actually just delight in it, even if the experience is of a migraine. or insomnia or losing the beloved husband all of those experiences there is nothing wrong unless that interface clicks in takes it personally and have the judgment value and that is being believed there really is nothing wrong with right now unless you think about it Even if the body is screaming in pain or crying in sadness, that's just what's happening.
And even if the body is actually taking the last breath or is jumping out the window just to save the... Because again, there is a software, survival software. That keeps the body alive and it keeps it thrive and sometimes the absence of driving may actually bypass the surviving you know there's nobody wants to die unless they they really really really really suffer and if they could just kill the suffering itself well again they wouldn't want to die life is loving to be and that love to be is just it's self-evident in every single behavior I had a conversation with a dear friend in the morning and she was completely tormented by the fact that bad things happen to her the evil people did bad things to her and how could it be how do I I can't I'm so naive I'm so vulnerable I can't I can't cope Well, but can you see the love behind that misery and thattragedy which make you even care that bad things are happening to you there is self-love in that very action in being hurt there is self-love and that is again that is like I think in miracles calls it like a Holy Spirit, the action, the power of God or that love of being showing up as hurt or as even as hurting others.
It is also a form of self-love. I'm doing it for myself. So that acting power of that, there is an omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. The omnipotence part is that love in action, which of course, and that was a beautiful way Nisargadatta put it out, if I think I'm the separate self, that love is going to be very, very confined and limited. And that love will make me seek for wisdom to add to myself, seek for wealth to take away from someone else, to hurt others, just to complete myself because I think this is what I am, this is who I am. But if you understand that you are the life itself,Well, that love doesn't have any limits.
Everything that appears in that field is embraced as part of it. You're looking at that cut, and that cut is another way that life shapes and forms. It vibrates into a pattern of a cut. And then you have a thought, and that may be negative or positive, but this is also another vibration of life showing up as a thought. Everything is that life appearing as everything.But then the mind comes and it says, hey, but I understand it intellectually, but I don't experience it. It's quite the opposite. It is beyond the intellectual understanding and it's impossible not to experience. And again, as Bob says, are you unaware right now?
So you are experiencing being aware. You are experiencing being conscious. Are you not existing right now? So you are experiencing directly right now. You are experiencing the fact of existence. So you are that sky-like awareness already experiencing itself fully. And now the thought comes, but I am in the body. But that's just a cloud on that sky. See if in direct experience, if you don't think about the body, if you don't remember, if you just push aside that mental image of how is the body shaped, how much space it takes, if you can push that aside, see if you can really say, that you are the body in the direct experience just now if you even close your eyes you don't see the shapes of other bodies there is no incentive if there is no thoughtCan you even say that you are a body?
Without a thought, you can't. Without the thought, can you say, I am limited? You can't. So there is that awareness of presence. And unless the thought comes and gives it a shape and a form and the boundaries, All you can say is, well, it is. It is just as it is. It is here. It doesn't have a shape. Now you open your eyes and everything that happens within that field of seeing, without the thought, how is it separable? From the seer itself, from the apparatus. It isn't. It's the thought that comes online and says, this is I and this is not I. But without the thought, direct experience again is just pure seeing.
Pure being, limitless, boundaryless, just being. The thought comes, no, this is my, this is yours, this is Kat's being. No. But now, you did not trust that thought when you were born. It couldn't even comprehend it. And the being was there.At some point along the way, that got obscured, that sense of presence, that limitless, boundless, boundaryless, timeless, spaceless being got obscured. And the ideas have hijacked it and said, this is not, this is I, this is the conceptual image, me, this is my being, this is my consciousness, this is my presence. But those are just ideas. So the way out, the way back home to fully, fully realize that that presence is always there is to just for a moment see that the thinking can't touch it.
That those images showing up and claiming anything and everything, they can't touch it. The sky is still boundless. The direct experience is still clear. Push the thought and being doesn't have boundaries. Seeing doesn't have boundaries. It doesn't even start behind your eyes. If you focus there, it's just a capacity. It's just the capacity for seeing that is there. It is, the perspective is assumed. You know, you can put the binoculars and you'll have different, or the microscope and it will be different, because the vehicle is just like the camera, it has set on perspective. So yes, there is part of that whole cup.capacity includes the instrument which is used to exercise it, but seeing is in itself is a field, it's a whole field just like hearing.
And how did you become outside of that field something small and limited, utilizing or joining that field? Again through that interface of interpretation, which is not a scene, which is not a bad thing, it's just the algorithm making the navigation of the vehicle through the complexity of the whole appearance easier. It is a handy pattern.And it is to be appreciated. But there is no need to be enslaved by it. I think we're going to go over time and we're going to just include... There is no time, yeah. Plenty of time, yes. But we have... Oh, Jenny Night Owl Inc. For a bit. And Gilbert says, the thinker is only a thought.
Yes, beautiful. Exactly. Yeah. Gosh, I wish you were here. Just next time, please, please join us and sit here and give us your best. And Bill says, good morning, Kat. Glad to see you and everyone there today dwelling in our changeless knowing and feeling. Isn't it beautiful? And John says, good morning, Kat, and everyone. Loving to be with you all here. And Simone says, much love to everyone. And that's really, that's it for the comments today. So now this is the time to invite everyone to just open up and, yeah, we have about 30 people with us. Just, you know, include the opposites. Say what maybe didn't come up when I was speaking.Just add whatever is clear for you.
Just kind of build up that light. This was the thing that kept Bob with us for so long. He enjoyed every single meeting and just bringing the attention back to the source of all attention. Just multiply it, amplify it and just... Pump it up. So anyone would like to add something, include something, or ask something, or question something, bring the opposite. Every pointer can beWonderful. Thanks for the pointing, Kat. Yeah, I was listening and... And even in that word listening, it's the I-N-G, you know, it's... And as you were talking, you know, that's the thing I can kind of just remind myself that takes me away from objectifying the experience as an experience.
It's experiencing and the liberation that sort of comes with just... Not being so bound by labeling something so immediately and habitually. And, you know, that's taken a while for me to even arrive here where I could loosen the hold when the whole of the culture expected me to find an identity. Yes. And so...Yeah, so I'm really, you know, I mean, I say it every time, I'm so thankful for this room and that doorway and what it's led to. And there is no, it's undeniable the fact that there's experiencing. And so slowing kind of the rush to label things enough to really just even sink beyond the words.
And we have language and it's beautiful to be able to have this gift of, you know, to-ing and fro-ing to see if the word, it has to be a match. Otherwise it's... So what I heard today from you two was the...the observer, you know, this kind of thing, to be the witness of the observer. But that too is a kind of, okay, I'm now an observer. So there's observing. Yes. There's witnessing. And, yeah, that was good to hear that today. Thanks. Oh, gosh, it's beautiful. Yes, thank you. That's a great highlight. Can't get enough of that. Beautiful cat. Great listening to you today. One thing, you know, being the observer, as Tess just said and you said, but what, you know, Bob always says, you know, was one day I was talking to him, the here and now, that's all there is, you know.
You know until you really understand here and now you're carrying that story you know story with us it was only yesterday something had happened and my daughter sent me some stuff and you know that something came up and thought you know i question myself as a mother And then I just like, you know, and then I realized I just let go and so it came into the breath of silence and stillness now. And, you know, what came to me?you know, when you listen to that intelligence energy, I am a good mother, you know, even though I'm not just experiencing it. But when, you know, when you hang on to an idea, a concept of not being enough or anything, but the more you come into the here and now, that, you know, you can experience in that thought.
But you can also let go of it in stillness and space and just shine and see the opposite of what you thought you were. And that's the magic. And that's happening for me more and more now. But, you know, that concept that we hang on to, I hang on to. As a little girl and through my marriage and not you know i've said before you know it wasn't my idea of what was happening in reality it wasn't it was probably the opposite but yeah here and now is so important and that's what bob says what's wrong with that right now if you don't think about it yeah Everything is, you know, non-dual really.
Everything is experiencing and, yeah, it's good. And that was brilliant, you know, kind of realizing that only when you hold on to the idea and the association from the past and in the direct experiencing there is no past. There isn't. The past is only in ideas, in thoughts. It just changed. Well, you don't change. Completely. You're experiencing it from a different angle instead of from the past. You can experience it from now, which is just, you know.Fresh and new. Yeah, he says everything's fresh in me. You guys talk about something. Good. Good. Good. I'd like to tell you about an experience I had at yoga.
Oh, wow. Go for it. I ended up in this yoga class by mistake. A very, very popular class. It's hard to get into. So I sort of got on the waiting list. I was about number eight in the waiting list. But as it transpired, people dropped out for one reason or another. And ended up in this class with this fellow he's got a lovely name he's called christian but he's he's more like uh uh you know some dictator he's really hard really hard carly teacher and um So I did a Pilates session first with him, survived that just, and then the yoga session. But I've never done the yoga with him before.
You're going through, you're working certain muscles and stretching different parts of your body.And every now and then you'll be in some contorted pose and left leg, right leg going up and down and all this. And he'd say, keep breathing, keep breathing. And sometimes he'd say, now breathe, breathe into your lower back. Yeah. And that's okay. You get the sense of that, you know, and then you think, well, this is imagination. And then he went through the whole series of things and he said, now it's time for meditation. Everybody's lying on their back. And he starts with things like saying, now breathe into the soles of your feet.
Immediately attention is there. Yeah. And breathe into your knees. And he just keeps going through the body. And you realize that wherever you go,There's nothing. You're completely relaxed and you're just going immediately, or the attention's going immediately to a point or some place in the body, but there's nothing there. It's completely empty. It's quite a beautiful feeling to just experience the emptiness of every single part of the body.And it was a true meditation because that's your experiencing what what you've always been told, that there's Complete emptiness. And yet this whole thing by thought and language is reified into something that's solid. There's nothing there.And that was beautiful, beautiful.
Yeah. No problems. No, yeah. Amazing. You can even actually see how, you know, when you move your attention to the sole of your feet, you have to have the image or memory of your feet to even place the attention there. So it is again a subtle following the instruction, the exploration is beautiful, it's amazing. But you can see how, you know, you kind of almost, I mean the projector is projecting that there is a body and the body has feet and in those feet there are some sensations, I'm going to catch them. I remember I did quite a few Vipassana meditations where you actually just really learn to slide the attention millimeter by millimeter throughout the whole body until you train it so well that the image of the body, the image of the limbs and belly and back or whatever is there and it's just the attention just makes a wave of like...
The nothingness vibrating through and how that image is really created. But there is never really a question, who is aware of all that? Because if there was, I mean, hey, locate the one who is focusing the attention on the feet. Where are you looking from?And you always say, this is what Jacinta was saying a moment ago, it's only here and now. That's the only experience there ever is. And finding emptiness in the limbs. And you can also, another thing, you can find, okay, of course, you're not it. You know, the attention traveling to different locations in the vehicle, but you can't find yourself there. Emptiness of self, there is no self there.
And that's a gorgeous realization too. And again, those are ways of exploring. And thank you for bringing that in, because anyone could just really have that little experiment. And look for the self. Can you find it in your feet? There is definitely some vibration, a live mental sensation, or maybe there isn't. But the attention can travel into that image of feet, just like attention can travel to the image of maybe your parent who passed away, your grandparent. It can still do that.Because there's nothing ever missing or ever lost in that whole dream. But the final realization, where is that attention steaming from? What is that movement of attention?
Other than what Tusk was highlighting, the experience, ing. In that experience, seeing all that movement happens, the past happens in it. Of course, it only happened as a mental image. There is no past. Past can't be experienced. And that's also a sobering fact. Whenever the thought comes, oh, but yesterday this happened to me. But okay, so what about this moment right now? That's just a memory. That's a thought. And that thought is happening presently. And of course, whatever in, within the dream, it is valid, totally valid in the dream that, you know, the abuse happened. And the body is traumatized. You know, the dog got kicked and kicked and kicked and starved and it ends up in a shelter and it bites everyone and squeals under the table.
Yes, there is a trauma visible. The body was mistreated and the body responds in a traumatic way. Absolutely. I mean, this is not to deny the fact that, yes, the body gets conditioned by whatever is happening in the environment because they are not separate. So if there is a child living in abusive family or it's a child like ofof a mother who was a drug addict and who was raped on the street and run, that child apparently underdevelops the frontal cortex and gets very strong legs and hands and like in Elvis Presley songs, it learns at the age of four how to use a knife and kill and steal and fight and survive.
That's just the way of it. And every evil in the world is just the environment and inseparable element of it, that expression, that transmitter-receiver being completely conditioned by everything that happens to it. Like if we were to put down the algorithm, it would never end because there is infinite amount of factors. That's why we call it spontaneous.And there are other, you know, there is no justice. Another dog will be loved and cherished and spoiled and fed properly and have enough of exercise and sunlight and everything. No justice. And I do like to sidetrack and bring the nature because, again, that was the way Bob shown me the world.
That, you know, whatever humans are only different from other creatures through that Siri installed in your head that is commenting constantly, that software of the commentator, just like in your phone. Apart from that, we also have urges. Like the cat, if it's thirsty, it has an urge to go and drink water. So the human bodies have the same sort of behaviors. Only on top of that behaviors, there is that commenting I. Oh no, I, I am thirsty. Now I have decided, I have made a conscious choice to get up off this chair and walk to the kitchen and get myself a water. Well, really, cat doesn't have that story running in the head.
It understands that the world, that the... body is inseparable if there is not enough water in the system it will be replenished from the environment through that communication through emotional urges or behaviors there you go And humans have the story that, no, it isn't like this. I have free will. I'm deciding. This is my choice. And I can be good or bad, or I can forgive someone or not. Well, again, it really depends on that interface, how it was conditioned.And it is updated moment to moment, just like your chat GPT or your Siri is learning moment to moment. New information call in. This is my baby.
He's been bashed by Bob's passing, so he's only coming back to his senses. His life has collapsed. He used to spend 16 hours on Bob's lap and the remaining 8 hours sleeping in my feet. And here downstairs for the last few months.So yes, he needed a lot of healing space too. It's not that we only have the concepts of being traumatized and this is just a story and if you drop the story, the body will completely transform and not have the behaviors. Nah, nah. The healing, it was required and if it's called for, it will show up naturally. And if it doesn't, then okay, that's perfect too, because then life experiences a trauma for the rest of the existence of the vehicle of experiencing.
There's nothing wrong ultimately from life's perspective. But there is a lot of things wrong from individual perspective because that very interface, that little Siri or whatever, Alexa, whatever the name of your commentator or chat GPT is there in the body. What's yours? You have the pie? No, you have the British girl that talks to you. A sexy voice. Yes, so whatever is that commentator saying is just a piece of software narrating whatever is happening spontaneously, effortlessly, naturally. Imagine that same commentator, you know, adding the narration about the digestion. It's not necessary. Or the breathing, the heartbeat, it's not necessary. But for the processing the world and for that miraculous, amazing capacity to express, write the poetry.or create a fantasy book or the hero journey, well, it has that capacity and it is to be appreciated.
And if it is understood as another beautiful capacity and not as the master that runs the show, There is no suffering. There's just the appreciation. But of course, if the identity, if that conceptual image, that dream character believes that this is I, I run the show and I get it wrong and I'm ridden by guilt. I've done so many things wrong. I've hurt so many people in my life. I will go to hell. I don't deserve to be loved. Shit, that's painful. That's, yeah, that's a tragedy. That's, again, nothing wrong from life's perspective. Life can absolutely indulge in that darkness and that pain. And it doesn't have the concept that there is anything good or bad, whether there is pleasure or pain.
But that character, that software, that algorithm that is doing the narration, it serves the purpose of preserving the vehicle so the experiencing and the expression can go on. And the way of preserving that vehicle is to find faults.Look what's wrong and fix it. What's wrong? Oh gosh, he gave me a look or she doesn't respect me or they don't love me or they reject me or they think bad of me. What a fantastic function. It could be right. And if it is right and it's been neglected, then tragedy could happen. People live in a perpetual state of anxiety, which was very, very handy 20,000, 30,000 years ago.
To project that whenever there is a piece of a branch broken, then, ah, there might be a bear. Let's run and hide. Today, the same anxiety comes online when you imagine that someone gave you a look.But again, this is only when the identity is believed into existence. And it's life that does believing the identity into existence. And it's life that relaxes to recognize that pattern, recognize that piece of software that assumes the identity, just like an actor. Goes on the scene and assumes the identity, playing someone. Now I am that character, this is who I am. But when the show is over, that identity is put aside, the costume is taken off, and the actor is just...
Whatever, it's the point of consciousness in which life looks at itself. Or perhaps it's another role of a mother or whatever, or wife or girlfriend or something.So they say it really is the awakening to the dream when the actor realizes that, oh, I'm not the role I'm playing, whether it's a role in the theater or whether it's a role in this moment. Like Jacinta, I am a bad mother or I am a good mother or whatever, I'm a mother. That's just a temporary role. You are the totality. You are the presence of existence or awareness of existence, indirect experience. In the story, you are all those roles, but you couldn't be any of them if not for that existence.
Existence is primal, is prior to every role and every story. Existence, that radiant, shining life, light of life. That's your true nature. And it plays. And it shows up as a thought, feeling, emotion, scene, whatever is being seen, whatever is being heard. Like Bob says, and this is one title of one of the books that Gilbert put together, the transcripts, one essence, appearing, experiencing and expressing as everything. Even remembering that just that title, and Gilbert is brilliant with titles of the books, all of them are beautiful. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?or beyond words, beyond mind. Is just remembering that the truth is right here in the direct experience.
And the overlay of narration saying that, yes, but my direct experience that I am still there. Well, the presence is there. And that is unlimited unless the thought comes and defines it. Like Bob says, often bringing up Nisargadatta's background of Hindu, which says there is reality and there are three elements of the reality. And two elements of illusion. The three elements of reality is Sat-Chit-Ananda, being, awareness of being, and love of being. This is the reality. This is what is happening right now. And now the illusion, the two other factors, are maya, illusion, Nama erupa, giving it a shape and giving it a form. So now I am conscious of awareness.
I am here. That is presence. It doesn't have any shape and any form. And that is reality. And now the interpreting software comes online and it says, yes, but it is here. It is not here. Really? That's a thought. Without that thought, there isn't here and there. There is just that one thing.angular here, that is the experience. It's undivided. It's only the thought that divides it. The mind is the duality projector. The language, the mind, the labeling, the dividing is the projector of duality. Wonderful, again. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a brilliant game. Who doesn't love a good show? It's for love and appreciation.
It's for the expression. Without it, the expression is somewhat limited. We know how many dreams you can have within 10 minutes. You can project how many thoughts. And all of them are mental images, dreams. Imagine that life essence, that capacity for experiencing being enhanced this way. You know, the cat is only present all the time. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, that's all that is happening. Completely rooted in this present moment.but human. It can have a thought about, oh, but think about people, Holocaust, not only past, not only incredibly loaded, emotionally charged drama of pain and suffering, not happening right now. But when you think about it, whew, wow.
How about having a margarita on the Copacabana? Wow, yes. In the split second, so many worlds that life essence can experience through that dreaming capacity, through that fantasy. But if you believe it, you are on the roller coaster of pain, pleasure, pain, pleasure. If you don't, wow, what a show. What a play. And then how do I do it? How do I disbelieve my mind? Wrong question.There is no doer there, there is no either. It can't be done. You can't make yourself disbelieve what is being believed. You can't make yourself practice to become something that you are already. It's just plain recognition and that recognition is only possible when there is enough of that unengaged free attention.
Bob used to call it unfixated awareness. When there is just enough of that relaxed presence, that noticing presence,to just notice and then noticing without judgment just the way the video camera notices it doesn't even focus on anything that's the non that is the free attention non non fixated awareness that allows everything to be as it is doesn't modify it doesn't correct it doesn't judge it doesn't label doesn't compare doesn't do any of that of that computing on top of it it's like bare reality without that overlay of of conceptual conundrum beautiful but still just just muddy and and engaging and seductive and I don't know I told you this this dream is oh my god this is what is happening don't you see mmm nah it's nothing happening really it's just this present moment now nothing is happeningdreaming the interpreting is it's just bubbling life like Jenny I don't know if she's still with us she says life is just life ink it's doing it's it's dance and we have Tanya says a seat I'll says good to see you all and Yes, Jenny says, there is only life, life ink, patterning, shaping, forming here and now.
That's it. Nothing's happening. All the stories, all the beautiful, beautiful stories which are to be enjoyed and appreciated don't have to be...a confinement, a prison. They're not true. They're just dreams. And Cito says, good to see you all. And Tanya says, is there actually conditioned thought patterns or is that just a thought? If the illusion of a separate self is seen true, what need is there to inquire? Yeah, great point. Yeah. There is just a thought, whether you actually just find yourself in the point of expressing and digging into the nature of thought and see how it is conditioned by everything because it isn't separate from anything.
Well, you may go down this road, but when the realization is clear that this is just whatever arises and it doesn't touch the sky, it doesn't touch the pure presence, it is just the bubbling life, it's just the wave ripples on the ocean and it doesn't change the water, it doesn't touch it. Is there a need to inquire? Or who would be there to even inquire? And right from the beginning there isn't anyone to inquire. It may feel this way. It may feel like, okay, I feel I am a self and now I have to have a look by myself, for myself, to liberate myself from being that separate self.
No, even that's not happening. It's always only life.expressing through if there is a projection of the little form of the conceptual image and looking through that form of conceptual image looking through that mind so life is just shining through that little filter of me it's still life the me is just a it's just a tinted glass Thank you, Tanya. We have another 25 minutes. Help. Oh, please. Thank you. Thank you, Kat. Thank you. Without thoughts, concepts, cognitive layer in the pure field of knowing. It seems, yes, there's pure presence, but the presence becomes meaningful. Because there is also a possibility of pure absence. For example, light is meaningful because light can also not be there.
And you're there, you know, and there's a possibility you're not there, right? And then you're there, so it becomes meaningful. And we spoke about a child, an infant, right? Yes. It's the same thing. Even though the infant doesn't have any conceptual concepts, it still has a knowing and identification.is there or something is not there. It seems like there is a potentiality or an essence or something which lends its nature to whatever is there, whatever is not there. And at the same time, it is not before or after or here or there or part of or apart from. It's still without, it sort of has the freedom to be anything and everything and nothing and whatever, right?
Sometimes it gets focused into body, mind, the whatever we call as I, other. Sometimes in periods of contemplation, it diffuses sort of. And sometimes it kind of like a butterfly says, here I am, I alone. And I don't know, I can't. That was beautiful. That was super enjoyable. Even highlighting the fact that, yes, you know, there seemed to be existence and there seemed to be a possibility of a non-existence. That's the love of being. That's the appreciation of being. Yeah, beautiful. And the pure consciousness shining out of the ice. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, lovely.I heard loving to be today in a way that I hadn't considered it before when you said earlier that in self-preservation, conceptually of reinforcing the identity, I have to...
I'm other focused and I need to name them to preserve the identity. But what I also heard you say, which is the loving to be, that there is this innate need for safety and protection. That's the loving to be. And I hadn't known it until this moment that that's what it is. It's just...a primal need to survive. Full stop. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, just hold it. Yeah, it is that simple. It's like really almost kind of binary algorithm, you know? That vehicle preserves itself and that's love. That's love of being. Which, you know, not suggest, but I suppose the words like safety is... Absolutely. Yes. It's love.
Is that the base? Yeah. Yes, it is. It's safety. Absolutely. It's love. Yeah. Even, you know, desires and attachments, the love for the self. All the, you know, needing to have shelter and friendships and peer group, all of it, love of the self, preserving the vehicle and thriving and following pleasure, following your bliss. Even if it means, you know, going to the sedation road of a terrible addiction, like, you know, Bob was talking about delirium tremens and zoo nights and... Oh, shocking suffering. The suffering that took him to places that were absolutely unforgettable. And 50, 60, 70 years later, when he had the cancer pains and he had all sorts of...terrible dramas betrayals of people that he really loved and they drug him to courts it was all laughable he says that's nothing it's just a mosquito prickle comparing to that suffering that the very self-preservation instinct took him sedates the suffering get a drink it's just so simple such a simple pattern but when you see it at work you marvel and it will still do it it will still take you to the you know when when sedation is required it will you know if the addiction is there if if that's the strategy this body developed it will follow it like nisar gadatta cigarette after cigarettes i know it is killing me I am unconcerned.
Such a different take on addiction, addiction as self-preservation. Yes. Self-preservation gone wrong. But in Bob's case, leading to... Yes, leading, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, without that... That dimension, that unthinkable dimension of horror, there would be no questioning. There would be no looking for the way out.And we have, Tanya says, beautiful. That was a perfect reply. No one here to inquire. No one affected by thoughts, sensations, etc. It is true nothing can touch or harm presence. It is absolutely. And Peter says, loving the clarifying of life, lifing in all its splendor. And yet all a dream, but a dream being experienced in presence. Isn't it amazing? Yeah.
Just marvel at the dream. Hi. Hi. I have a question. Please. So, you know, one can intellectually understand that I'm not the body, I'm not the mind. There's something else, I'm pure consciousness. So it's relatively easy to appreciate that intellectually, I think. It's also, I think, possible to, well, not experience, but appreciate it, like genuinely experientially appreciate it. Momentarily. But the real question is that how does one make that a permanent thing?How does it become second nature, so to speak? Because the habituation of the mind is extremely strong. The survival instinct, the I thought is extremely ingrained. Yeah, if you could comment on that. Yeah, that's a great question.
Absolutely. That's the only question, really. Because, well, I wouldn't call the intellectual understanding an intellectual understanding, because intellectual understanding means it's a belief. But you did also say that you can momentarily experience it. But if the thought is absent, that yes, there is a presence and there is no body. If the thought is absent, that's, you know, it's just, that's it. How can that realization be permanent and does it have to be? Because when you look at that cat, when I opened the door, the wind will blow through his fur. And he will be acutely aware of the presence of the body. And it is not a problem at all.
Because it doesn't identify with the body. The awareness of the body is perfectly fine, it's part of functioning, it's part of that self-preservation loving to be. But identifying as the body, you're right, it is such a strong program. It runs on autopilot and it straight away runs into commenting and interpreting.Everything for you. You know, oh, I stubbed my toe. Why is it happening to me? Why the life is not providing for me? That narration that translates innocent happening, the body stubbed its toe. That's it. That's known, noticed in awareness. Into the blah, blah, blah concept, having a story about me and having pain in the story about me and the overlay and what does it mean and why and all that.
Well, that habit is broken when enough of the free attention is like sucked out of it. You know, like it's almost like you keep the fire burning if you keep putting fuel on it. And that fuel and anything that lives in the appearance is fueled by that life essence, which in our case we can just call attention. Or Bob calls it the energy of belief. So everything is energy. It's not that there is energy of electricity and there is an energy of the belief and there is the energy of whatever. It's one appearing in a different way. Electricity appears as the light or absence of light, then there's a potentiality for light.
That same energy through this machine, it doesn't show us light or heat in a toaster, it shows us the attention. And that attention also goes with the programming of meaning making and interpreting the flow of attention. So now, if for whatever reason the attention is withdrawn, the habit weakens. But how to withdraw the attention? You can't direct it because there's no one there who directs it. So there's no one there who can stop it. But if there is a genuine curiosity and love for the truth, that one I found helps too. And the trust that it really cannot be done by any sort of effort or doing that diligence and earnestness of I'll do anything and everything to make that realization permanent is that is a beautiful beautiful expression of love but if there is an understanding that it cannot be achieved by that effort There is natural relaxation of the effort.
And that is how you stop putting fuel on the fire, by relaxing the mind. The moment the narration comes, the habitual interpreting, this is happening to me, they're doing it to me, this is wrong, this is bad, I don't like it, I need to, blah, blah. When in this moment, when there isa discipline and there is a love, realization comes up that, aha, that machinery is rolling again, it's narrating again. Aha, the only way out is just to relax and notice the way the camera notices. Notice the narration. That free attention. It seems to accumulate. You know, I've been amongst these rooms here for probably about 12 years or something.
First two or three years I was sitting there as a spiritual seeker, absolutely desperate, doing everything and anything and watching the mind as an alert, vigilant, fascist who wouldn't let a thought pass by incredible investment a lot of attention pumped out just into this to no avail and as i was hearing about more and more look out in nature what does sun do about shining What does planet do about rolling around it? What do you do about your heartbeat or about your hair growing? Nothing. Life is lifing. It works of its own. It runs by itself. The same way the pattern of narrating, it goes on its own.
The same way the habit of attending to it and interpreting this is me, this is I, I'm speaking now. It must be true because it's in my head. This is my voice. This is I speak.Well, you can really make a little trick and change the voice. You hear someone else, your girlfriend or your favorite whatever, the chat GPT British woman who speaks to Dean. This habit can be broken when there is realization that the answer can never ever be found through effort and thinking and working it out and unpacking it and understanding and remembering. None of it, this is all mental activity, this is more of the fuel on the fire, but only through relaxation.
Relaxing out into being that space like awareness because that's who you are space space doesn't comment comment it is not vigilant it's not alert it doesn't try to capture every thought it doesn't have any investment and it frankly doesn't even care if the realization is there or not And I remember being in that space. I had a guru before Bob that really showed me the whole introduction to non-duality. It's just he was far away. I had to travel to India once or twice a year and just sit there. And when I was there, I was empty. There was no self. I couldn't give a shit whether I realized or I don't because it didn't feel like there is any I to need to realize or not.
I said, oh, shit, yeah, I could stay like this. I don't want anything else. That's fine. And I would just get back home into the back like this, how you call those grooves of the autopilot.mode and the mind would restore itself and start complaining and believe that those complaints are the truth. I'm too fat, I'm too stupid, I'm too this, I'm too that. And it would be all misery again. And I would have to go back. And then I found myself in Australia. I never planned to come here. And then I found myself in this room listening to Bob and being reminded. And just again, ah, you're right.
I don't need to do anything. Yes. But then the session would end, hour and a half gone. It would last for a couple of days, that sort of a battery would be charged and the ripple effect would last. And then back down, diving again, you know, the head out of that shit. And then dive again and suffer. And it was done by no one. Again, life has orchestrated just the way, like life took Bob through that zoo nights of delirium tremens, when the monsters would come out from the darkness and try to eat him. You know, the alcoholism withdrawal syndrome. I would have the equivalence in my psychological, emotional suffering.
And would find myself repeatedly coming back to this room for the respite. And it would do nothing. It would just give me a little respite. Or maybe it did something. Who knows? I mean, I don't have a story about that. Until the time came that the suffering was amplified to the point ofShit, I can't take it anymore. And then, poof, it opened up. Just like it did for Bob. Just hit. And suddenly it was seen that that whole construct made of thoughts and made of habits of assuming identity is not who I am. It's just a software. And it relaxed. And it's still capable of doing all those things.
I can tell you many stories from the past, and I can even pump myself up and feel those stories and have tears in my eyes. How exciting it was, or how dreadful it was. All those capacities are still there. But now it is very, very clear that there's no one doing it. It's just life expressing those stories, but there's no doer there behind who chooses or doesn't. But it can only happen through just complete withdrawal of the attention, just either just completely giving up or one call it surrendering. The attachment or the identity, but there is no one who does that. That really, that final step is only life.
Life is the only doer. It's only life that can do that. The individual, which I used to believe I am, It can beat around the bush forever and ever and can achieve no results because that individualwhich wants to get out of itself, get out of the story or get out of the dream or the nightmare, it can't. It belongs there. You know, like the people you are dreaming about at night and the dream character you dream at night, they belong there. You know, they don't wake up with you. You wake up and they're all gone. So the waking up is the wrong word, again, because, you know, the wakefulness is still here.
It's just the dreaming, lingering maybe. But the waking up is from that separate self. The separate self doesn't wake up.So the life which never sleeps really, the life just drops that costume. It's just like the actor going off the scene. But how do you do that? You don't. But if there is enough free, unfixated awareness or relaxed attention, if there is remembering that through effort it can't happen, but through the relaxed presence and Bob has a good tips like you know habitually 90% of attention goes to that fantastic entertainment services that can you know create a dream after dream right in a split second you can be in hell in heaven everywhere naturally but If you bring the attention back to that five senses and keep them wide open and the attention distributed evenly between seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, like in like cold of, you know, Bob has this, we've been on the beach yesterday with a few friends, walking in the water and having those elements, the sensations of the touch, the smell, the hearing of the waves, all wide open.
There is not much of the attention, of that free attention, available to cover up that life, that direct experience, with the dreams and stories and projections. That's a little trick. Relax out of the thinking.Focus more into this moment right now. And this moment right now, sensing isn't happening yesterday or tomorrow. Sensing your butt on the chair is right now. Hearing the sounds, the sounds of the air conditioner, the traffic outside, right now, and see how little attention is available to just comment on it, oh, I agree with that, I don't agree with that, oh, I like that, I don't like, much, much less attention is engaged in that sixth sense of thinking.What other tricks?
Leave it unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. That's another trick. Beautiful little pointer that Bob hammers down to people. You know, if you think you are the doer, Just don't. Just leave it as it is. Whatever happens, the mind is yapping, screaming, yelling, kicking the sting, throwing tantrum. Just leave it as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Let it do what it does. Because that's what the space does. It doesn't touch anything. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't modify, correct. Space just holds space. Just notice. Leave it as it is. Just notice. And that's a completely new mode of existence.and is worthy of exploring, is much, much more relaxed.
And even if that final step never happens, because there were people here who were coming to the room for 20, 30 years. I spoke with the guy yesterday who was one of the last ones that Bob, he wouldn't really want to have long conversations with people. He was... He just wanted to hang in me and just reflect the beautiful unconditionality of love and joining. He didn't really want to interact socially much. But there was one dude from Thailand who used to call him. He says, look, I never really got it fully, but I just love the guy. And it just made my life so much easier.
To relax enough attention to not be completely trapped in believing the thinking. And it still feels like the eye is there, but it doesn't bother me. So whether that absolute certainty that there isn't any doer doing any thinking or doing anything at all lands or not,really is only just up to life. And from life's perspective, it doesn't make a difference. Because ultimately that dream is going to end. You know, that dream that had a beginning in a whatever it didn't really, if you look truly, it didn't begin when the child was born. It didn't even begin when the identity was created and the self came online.
It has no beginning. So life doesn't end from the life's perspective when the body drops away. It doesn't end. The life still goes on decomposing the body and it just changes form. But from the perspective of a dreamer, it is inevitable. The awakening from the dream is absolutely inevitable in the moment of death. So it doesn't matter whether awakening to the dream happens from life's perspective. But nothing matters more from the perspective of a dream character, because this is like be or not to be. This is like suffering or not. So it is really the only game in the town to even entertain the possibility that there is a mode of operating in this shared collective reality without psychological suffering.
It's like zero and eternity. There is like, it's not a shift of perspective. It is a shift of paradigm.to live as the imagined self or just be the witnessing space like awareness. Life looks absolutely the same. I can tell you probably my mother would never have a clue how big transformation. She doesn't see me suffer and she doesn't quite understand because we don't talk about that. It is a paradigm shift. But the real transition out of the dream is absolutely inevitable. And this is the paradigm shift far, far exceeding, at least according to those who had a near-death experience, either induced or natural. So from life's perspective, whether it happens or it doesn't, who cares?
And you are life. So on the deepest, deepest level of existence, it doesn't matter. And for the dream character, the only thing is to do, relax, leave it unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Focus on the five senses, keep them wide open. You know, notice the attention sneaking into the narration. Notice the pattern of believing in that narration. Notice assuming that identity of self. See how that identity changes when I'm walking, I'm the body, when I'm angry, I'm the mind. When I'm in a role with the partner, I'm the partner, whatever it is. Just knowing that whole game from the perspective of lifeIt is. It is nothing wrong.
From the perspective of the dream character, well, you're not the doer. Can't do anything. Just relax. Let the life unfold. And in that relaxation, Enough free attention. Thank you, Dean. We're going over time. And this is also what I learned from Bob, that it is really, really healthy not to. People have plans. We can go to Sofia's and have beautiful lunch. It is really healthy not to. He would call me a failure even on individual meetings. I would be more than an hour. Earlier, you can't shift them. Well, Bob, I can. We were laughing 20 minutes to the talk, but it was just such enjoyable laughter.
Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.