ND Zoom group Sailor Bob's style 10th Dec 2024

I'm just trying to set up for the meeting. Hi, everyone. Well. Hmm. For me, it's... It's really a case of, Coming back to that. Since ofJust being. And looking, and in the looking, seeing that there's Not nothing there, but no thing. Just awareness, just pure awareness of presence, of being, however you want to describe it, is-ness, I am, I exist. Sometimes I feel like, I exist, I am, I live.Very subtle. Very subtle. It's probably, you know, easy to ignore when we get caught up in the concepts and all the fantastic stories and the thoughts. And there isn't even, there isn't a mind. There's not a spot, there's not a point.

And mind is often interchanged with ego. But there isn't a point that can be identified anywhere. There are just these... Thoughts, waves, vibrations.movement in energy that comes in, stays a while and goes out. And you can sit back in silence and watch them. You don't have to put focus of attention on them. They can just come in, be recognised. Not altered, not changed in any way, just seen with acceptance.And then that too will change. That too will change. Everything changes. No matter how much we love some thoughts, don't love some other thoughts. Love it all. Love it all. Because even in... The saddest, angriest too.

Expressions, there's still, if you go deeply enough and focus enough, you can still experience, get a sense of that loving to be. And it struck me actually, I was talking with Kat yesterday, today, I can't remember, about extreme states of emotion. Like when you're really, really angry, really super angry and there's maybe this yelling or screaming going on, or when you're in... Extreme grief too. They are actually great opportunities, if you can, to disconnect to actually watch the drama unfolding and seeing it.actually anger for the theatre of it. I can remember some great examples arguing with my ex in the kitchen, yelling, screaming, you bloody F and F and so and so, and then recalling that It's, you know, actually watching it happen and thinking, this is just something else, you know.

This is just happening. I don't even know where this is coming from. And you can sit back and watch it. And I like to talk too about how you can just go for a quiet walk as well, just walking. Love walking.and just quietly realizing that there is a knowingness of your surroundings. Without the labels, without the words, without the need for a story about anything, there's this knowingness, there's an awareness that the legs are moving, the feet are being placed in the right places on the sidewalk, your awareness of cars going by and and little birds flying past, flies, the temperature, the wind, there's an awareness.

And then if you're watching closely enough, you can see the mind wants to get involved and thought comes. And the thought comes with a label. Label about a type of bird. Oh, I know that bird. That's such and such. A label about a type of car. Oh, I know that car, you know. I wouldn't mind having one of those. Oh, I don't know how much of that is worth. Oh, I don't know how he can afford that dot, dot, dot story, you know. But all of this, all of these thoughts and then stories come in on top. They're really unnecessary. You already know all that stuff.

You already know it's already there as a natural functioning.that knows that. It's not It's not that we need to even pay any attention to those labels, but they come anyway. Really just part of the story. And another big part of the story, especially here, is a recognition of howthis so-called concept of what this Tanya is, it's actually just a compilation of attractive concepts, ideas, characters, that I had been exposed to that had been collected over time and built on. And decided, you know, made somewhere along the line, there was an adoption of this created image. It's all it ever has been, just an imaginary, fictitious character in a theatre.

And it's all part of the fun. So that's all fine, isn't it? There's nothing wrong with that. But when you realise it's just imaginary, then... When the challenges arrive, You can sidestep in a way, for want of a better word, that psychological suffering. It's not necessary. You don't have to give those thoughts any weight anymore, any energy, the energy of belief.You know, it's all there in Bob's book, which I cannot help talking about, beyond words, beyond mind, which is just pure perfection and straight up and down. If you want to know it for how it is, really is with absolute clarity and no baubles, no tinsel, then that's your go-to source.

And you can read it over and over again. And each time, you know, find more to discover in there. It's a lot of depth in there. Yeah, it's beautiful. I think I've done my job. It's about the exhausted my capacity. I think I've only done about 13 minutes. Well, you've done well. You've done well. Actually, Bob, I'm really sorry to put you on a spot like this, but I really wanted to include Bob. I really, because he, yeah, I shouldn't have gone for a walk. But yeah, you've done beautiful. And last time, after the last meeting, Bob gave Tanya a good big pat on the back.

Yeah, you might make it just yet. I can't remember what he said. No, he was enjoying your contribution that you've done well. Yeah. Yes. So, yes, that is really basically we have another probably six minutes left.to just bring back the pointers and you can always help yourself and read a quote or something just to be on the on the on the base the base of the teaching is uh there is no teaching there is no one teaching anyone anything it's just a simple recognition of what is already present what is already obvious in everyone the ordinary everyday common variety garden variety common awareness which is a prerequisite for everything else to happen nothing else can exist without that awareness of presence so we just bring the attention back to the awareness of presence we can acknowledge and we can label we can see how acknowledging and labeling is happening of whatever is the content of it whatever are the forms in that emptiness but without that prior recognition of the awareness Well, not only nothing can exist, but that which exists can hurt.

So recognition and prioritizing the presence of awareness or that true nature or life itself, the essence, the intelligence, putting it up front. Rather than engaging in the 10,000 things which are merely distractions, which basically constitute the greatest sin of humanity called ignorance, which is not a stupidity, it's just the...impossibility to label and objectify that awareness of presence for the mind. So basically that awareness of presence is completely overlooked, completely ignored. And all of the attention is spent in the drama, in the descriptions, in the narrative, in commentary. In that which is secondary. So the priority, the primary, the true essence, the true nature is overlooked, is ignored, because distractions are taking the stage.

So if we bring back the first things first, or like some of the scriptures are saying, recognize thee in all thy ways, split the stone, chop the wood. I think Yvonne was quoting it at some point. From gospel of thomas uh any any way it is pointed through the ages bob often also includes in the spilling the reminder that it really isn't anything new if you go to the core or the base of all the religions you will find that this is the core or the base everywhere you find it in christianity as a pointer to omnipresence Lord's presence or omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. That means total.

Nothing's excluded, nothing separated, nothing outside of it. So if you experience your own presence, it needs to be, it has to be, it must be the omnipresence. It's just experienced locally.in the dream, but it is the same omnipresence experiencing itself. In other religions, in Buddhism, they are talking about the ever-fresh presence awareness, justice and nothing else. They say that there is nothing else. Everything else is maya, is illusion. It doesn't even exist. It appears to be, like the dream at night. There is presence of awareness and there is nothing else. Everything else is maya. Also, they say emptiness is form. Form is emptiness. Showing that in that field of knowing or that presence of awareness, the static aspect, that's Hinduism, the way they describe it.

You know, if you bring back the idea of energy, which is a very handy idea because it's relatable in modern world, energy being in a static sense, like the electricity when the current doesn't flow, you know, the potentiality of the flow. When you switch off the light, you can't say there is electricity because there is no flow, but you can't say there isn't because potentially it is anytime you switch the light on. So the static aspect. Is the emptiness or is the nothingness or no thingness or the pure potentiality because it isn't nothing it is no thing there is not a thing in it but not a nothing because the potentiality of everything lies in that fieldSo the static aspect is Shiva, that's called Shiva.

The energy that is having a potential but is not expressed, not experienced, is static, is like an open field or emptiness. Once it moves, it moves into variety of vibrations. It may vibrate on a certain frequency and become a sound that all thoughts, voice, sounds, vibrations. It can vibrate a little bit higher frequency. It becomes light or x-ray or microwave or the waves that are, you know, bringing up the image on your screen. They're all waves. Subatomic particles vibrate so high and so fast that they constitute something which we call matter. You can see the very fast helicopter blades moving very fast that can chop your head.

So the matter is also vibration and we all know it from the science, but we don't have to relate on any belief system. Science is just another belief system. But we can see how that potential, potentiality or Shiva or field of emptiness or just pure field of cognizing singularity can vibrate into all sorts of different shapes, forms and patterns. And it is one field. And it happened to vibrate into the content of the dream and everything inthat dream is just a different frequency of vibration of the same field so that that brings us to the idea of non-duality which means there is not two in fact bob often highlights not even one because when you look at that field of potentiality you can't say that it exists You can't say that it doesn't.

It neither does nor it doesn't. It is beyond existence and non-existence. Potentiality is beyond existence, non-existence. It's the singularity. So it appears as... patterns, shapes and forms, but in its essence, it is no thing. It is the pure radiance. They compare it also to the sun. Sun, thanks to the radiance of the sun, all the life can even exist because that radiance is the life-giving animation, that animating energy that one could call it consciousness or awareness. But saying that it is not two, that advaita means not two, non-dual, and bringing it back that this is just the one energy field. And if there is one energy field, whatever you experience yourself as, you have to be that one because there is nothing other, there is nothing separate, nothing away.

So your presence, sense of presence.You may say, but I feel that there is a me. Well, whatever the feeling is, that feeling is also a transformation of that energy field. You may say, yes, but I do feel separate. I am the body or I am inside the body. That feeling is also a transformation of that energy field. Energy is the field is one. It dreams, it transforms into those patterns. And every pattern has unique qualities, seeming qualities, because again, neither exists nor it doesn't. It's like a dream. You can't grasp it. You can't even grasp, you know, technically, you can't even grasp anything that is solid because, you know, as the atoms are vibrating, they're already changing.

So whatever is solid in there is only the idea. Idea seemingly solidifies things. And that's how a little child learns to label and recognize things and solidify them in the appearance. That's how the whole machinery, the whole biocomputer get conditioned to stabilize in the environment. It's not just human. Animals are the same. So when we see how the whole conundrum came into existence, we kind of see through the magic trick. We kind of see that this is an appearance. We can see that the same happens when we daydream. We can have visualization meditation.sleep at night or we can just even discuss a topic like a moon and we all will have the experience of whatever it is known and whatever it is seen we can have images of that But we realize that this is just an image.

Whilst in that waking dream, that realization is a little further away because the dream body is part of the dream. So it feels real. And yeah, that's the beauty of it, that a life essence as the potentiality can experience itself as seeming separate form with seemingly separate life story and dramas and traumas. And yet there is a possibility of knowing and realizing that this is just a dream. The dream will go on. When the dream is realized to be what it is, it goes on. But how personal it is then, how serious it is then, if that which you are is the pure energy field, pure consciousness, that is what is looking out of your eyes.

That is what is registering the hearing, the seeing, the pure consciousness. It can't be destroyed. It's a pure energy. When your back is aching, the consciousness is not aching. When the body is dying, the consciousness is not dying. The pure energy field, because again, there are a lot of different definitions. People who...call it consciousness as something different to awareness, they may argue and they will be right. Bob says that consciousness is the existence, utterly aware that it exists. So it is actually transformed through the form. Because as the pure energy field, there is no awareness of existence, because there is no medium and there is no idea of the opposite.

Anything that is apart from the fact of your own existence, existence of its own, of itself. Is only known through the background of its opposite. And even the speculation whether the field knows or it doesn't is already moving away from this intimate moment of presence, of now, of witnessing for and us that life essence. The uniqueness of this moment and realizing what is important in this moment or what really matters in this moment is that existence is that consciousness is that bliss the sat chitananda the being the awareness of being and the joy of being And the rest, whatever appeals in that field, can as much be loved and appreciated as it is possible in the moment, but it is secondary.

It is changing. It is phenomena. It comes and goes. So we can give.attention to the phenomena, especially in that non-dual circles, in order to demask the phenomena, in order to just expose the phenomena. Whatever feels super real, when exposed, it will demonstrate being completely reliant and completely dependent on that awareness. You could not conceive of anything in this world or in your dream that could possibly exist if not for that radiance of presence. So the radiance of presence always goes first. And the more of that radiance is acknowledged and the more relaxation into that, into that miraculous field of life itself, the more natural joy stems out of it and fearlessness andJust, yeah, just experience it yourself.

Just relax, go back to your heart, out of the thinking mind, judging, labeling, comparing, stressing, rushing, interpreting, narrating, commenting. And trying to work it out always, to be on top, always to know what and why and when and about tomorrow and bigger picture and context. Those are all wonderful capacities, but those are capacities to be used when required and not to live by and swear by. And I used to live by those all the time. I used to nearly all the time overlook that magic of the moment because I always had words to describe it, even to myself. And those words, this narrative was prioritized.

It was listened to. I would stand on the peak of the mountain. Occasionally, the words, I would be short of words because it would be so beautiful. Or on the top of the mast on the ship I was working on the sunset and the ocean overwhelming or the sky the night sky overwhelming and shutting the mind down making it short of words they were the only moments of respite from that constant chatter And it doesn't have to be this way.Life can be much, much, much simpler. The chatter, the narrative, remembering the shopping list and having stored memories is a wonderful capacity that can be used when required and not abused and overused and basically covering up the freshness of life.

So I think we are over the 20 minutes. And now, Yvonne, you are invited. Whatever you want to bring in the picture, please.Hi. I want everyone on the same page. There's only one page, the page of reality. And there are no others. There's just the one. And the one has no boundaries, has no center. So it's omnipotent, omniscience. Yeah, it's everywhere and all. And yeah, what can I say about it? It's just like the sea. The sea is always the same, but ever changing. And I love the sea. This weekend I got a present from my girlfriend. It's a ring and it says FONUS. It's a combination from my name.

She always calls me FON, not Yvonne, but FON. And the one is so... The fun is an illusion. It's a namarupa. It's an illusion. And the oneness for the oneness that we are.So that in a nutshell, but I can tell more, but of one point you can ask something, but I'm very quiet in my head. So when I have to tell a lot, then it stops. And that was lovely. I love like, yeah, you're right. We want to be on the same page, but we are one page. We are. Though not everyone is purely and plainly aware of that. So reminders, that's why the reminders, they actually serve the purpose.

But that was beautiful. That's beautiful. It's always good to highlight what actually works. And especially if you speak from the heart. And I know you do. Lovely. But to make 30 minutes full of this stuff, it's all about nothing. And it's lovely to speak about it, it's lovely to hear about it, but it's all about nothing. And to tell a lot about nothing, that is difficult. The mind has to come in to tell it, but the head is so quiet, so you have to search for words. When there is an interaction, it's more easy. True. Yeah, that is true. But you see, you know, when you look at our beautiful Bob, who is with us, and you can see him here, he finds the words to even speak for us.an hour and the way and the how he finds those words i pin him on the screen is because of the loving care and compassion for those for who it isn't obvious you know if people come and ask him for guidance and he knows that it's the same life looking for itself and it isn't obvious for them that we are all one So he finds a way.

Yeah, but then there is an interaction. When somebody asks me something, then I respond. But to tell 30 minutes full of this stuff, it's rather difficult. It's another piece of cake. Yeah, you're right. It is a challenge. It is a challenge. But it is actually what we've discovered throughout the meetings. It is a challenge which actually brings, you know, brings your own understanding back to you in your own way, digested by you. Rewarded by you and not only it serves you but it also serves those who are you know like bob's clarity is 48 or whatever years old you might be younger you're probably not that old anyway so it might actually resonate better it might something newly discovered and i had a call yesterday with someone new to the group and i was telling him about people who bring up you know like jenny something that really hit her heart and she translated the wholewhole teachings into the very very simple one-liner you know you just don't have to take it on board shrug your shoulders and that's it and this is the reminder which comes from the place that was so energetically strong and clear that later on i could hear other people reiterating or highlighting it because it hit as much as perhaps what's wrong with right now so this is this is why you know i do like to put that challenge because who knows you know even even the questions like uh i think we spoke a few weeks ago with another person who asked how are you even gonna explain in brief in few words to your doctor what are those talks about you know how can you even put it in words well try it maybe it isn't that difficult maybe it is something and yes you're right when someone asks question you kind of energetically tune to one person is always easier in one-on-one setting But it is a lovely challenge to just really, really be able to articulate ineffable, to be able to put in words something that much beyond words, you know, beyond words, Bob's book.

And it is somewhat, you know, life delights in it. That's why those groups exist. That's why they serve. There is something delightful. And, you know, even if you put it in,In few words, it's always good to hear it. Thank you. Thank you. And again, we invite everyone also to just bring up whatever resonates. Because that is, and I see Jens says here, thank you, Kat, your spiel is so good. Yes, your old man is right. Listen to him. Thank you. And it really helps everyone, even, and this is, again, I've discovered when Bob put me next to him and wanted me to run the meetings, to, of course, bring out all the doubts, to dispel them, to move them out of the way.

That's a wonderful place to start. But even more effective place to start is bring up that which really shift the perspective, which really loosens that mind, which makes you kind of feel, ah, yes. Because the truth is that the biggest obstacle for that message to embrace and naturally grasp is its simplicity. It is because it is that simple. The instrument, especially when someone read a lot of books and spent a lot of hours researching and studying andand watching videos and learning and contemplating and meditating so many hours and so much effort put into working it out getting it oh it must be so hard or maybe i'm just not smart enough maybe i just have to keep trying harder and harder and harder And now if you listen to those, Yvonne can confirm, I'm sure, who actually embrace the message, you will see, you will hear, shit, you know, it's a cosmic joke.

It's so blatantly simple that the reason why we overlook it is because we are looking for something super difficult. And it is so simple that newborn baby realizes that it is already present, is conscious. And then it forgets by taking up all the costumes and masks and words and ideas and concepts, which are basically just condemning it to the separation, to the limitation, to the boundaries of the bodies. Those things were taken on board. But prior to words, the awareness of presence is always there. It's undeniable. It's so simple. The biggest issue is the fact that the mind is put in charge and is trying to understand it.

And mind cannot ever understand because mind is duality. Language is duality. Language is symbolic. It always defines.and labels. And what we are talking about is not an object, is the no thing, cognizing emptiness, the field, the potentiality, the awareness itself. can't be objectified, is not a thing. So the mind can never, ever, ever, ever grasp it. Mind can grasp things, comprehend things, memorize things, label things, but the no thing. So that's what happens when the mind is employed. And I'm speaking from experience because I also went through the schools of meditation and contemplation and writing and exercising and asking questions and all that. How close you can get with the mind.

The more you think and talk about it, as Xin Xin Ming says, the further away you wander from the truth. That's just the fact. And I heard one very helpful instruction is if you really want to employ the mind, the only thing to understand intellectually or conceptually is that it is impossible for the mind to get. So the mind has to relax and get out of the way. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? That is no mind. Even in the moment of no mind, even in microsecond of no mind, The knowing is still here. The awareness of existence is still here.There is no thought.

It doesn't mean you disappear. It doesn't mean the body disappears. It doesn't mean the consciousness disappears. It is still there. So obviously, it is prior to the mind. And now, the mind can come just like thoughts can come, just like feelings can come, just like sights and sounds and tastes and smells, they can all come. But prior to those phenomena passing through, existence is there. And that is known. Everybody already knows that. It's not something that you will find out or you will believe or you will realize tomorrow. This is the joke. You already know that 100% certainty. Nobody has the slightest doubt in their own existence.

Nobody can perform the exercise of trying to not exist. Impossible you are you know that you are that you are you know that you are that's maha vikya you know that you are that you are so everybody's 100 certain but then mind comes and says Nah, I'm not like Bob. I'm not like Buddha. Nah, I'm separate. I'm different. But before the mind...came and said that existence was unobscured. When you sleep at night and Bob sleeps at night, there's no difference between you and Bob. Only the mind comes and it tells you that you are limited and you didn't get it and you have to try harder and think more and contemplate and seek and search.

And eventually after 20,000 hours of austerities and meditations, you will get it. You will become it. While Bob's mind, if it would ever come up with nonsense like that, it would be met with laughter. But it just doesn't. It doesn't. If the mind comes and says, but look, you are the body. There's no one to believe it. No one to hear it. Whatever the mind says. If you view the mind the way it should be, in my opinion, viewed as another function of the body-mind mechanism, of the whole machinery, the vehicle for the consciousness to experience and express. So all of that, everything of that has its function.

There is a function of sweating of the skin. There is a function of salivating in your mouth. There is a function of seeing and there is a function of hearing. And there is also a function of narrating. Nobody does that. There is no little person. There is no little imagined self that does the narration. Oh, this is me. I'm talking to myself. No. It's an automatic piece of...of software that this is part of the functioning realizing that whatever is happening in the field of seeing the content of the field of seeing is just the happening is just the functioning whatever is happening in the field of sounds of hearing whether there is a traffic sound You're not doing traffic sound.

Whether there is a cat jumping on the table, you're not doing those sounds. You're not doing this sound of me speaking. Neither am I. I'm not doing that sound of speaking. I'm not doing any speaking. It's the life exercising the functioning through the body. And then if the speaking comes in that very subtle, soundless, narrative that's also just a plain functioning is also nobody there doing it and i love how bob presents it by using the field of seeing because everyone can relate to that you wake up in the morning and the seeing is already there you don't do that You don't know how to do the seeing.

The seeing is there. The capacity for seeing is inherently present in this vehicle, which life uses to experience and express. So the seeing is there. The content of seeing changes. The seeing, when you wake up in a bedroom, there may be different content than when you are right now. Or when you go out, there will be a different content. But the field of seeing or the capacity of seeing,on the pure, just simple seeing. Is the way life is lifing, that seeing is lifing as seeing. And now the mind comes and translates what is happening to I see this. On the level of direct experience that is just seeing.

And then mind comes and divides it, subject-object, me here, the world there. I do the seeing of the world. Now the division happens. The child doesn't do the division. The cat and dog, they don't do the division. Life is a plain singularity unfolding in the field of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking. But humans, because of that capacity of thinking, which is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful capacity, because of that capacity, the division happens. And because it is rehearsed in and out day by day, and everybody else, every role model ever is showing that. Role model is learned by imitation and is inhabited as the fake identity as the conceptual image now there really is a belief that there is really an eye and the world is out there and i am here world is out there we separate you know the the idea of separation in that direct experience in a field of seeing now me hereA word out there.

The two now. Duality. Without the mind, no duality. What's wrong right now if you don't think about it? Who are you when you don't think about it? Do you have a mental image unless you think about it? Do you exist in the body unless you think about it? Do you exist as the body or the mind unless you think about it? No. No. Without the thought, nothing can be said. The only experience is of being, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. But even that is already labeled, described. Experience is direct and singular, always. But because we are accustomed to trust and believe and listen to that narrative, we believe that, oh no, there is me, and I am limited, and I am separate, and I need to get somewhere and become someone and get something.

In the future, of course, not now. But if there is anything to be got in the future, that's not it. Because reality is that which never changes. So if it is not right here right now, but it will be here tomorrow or in 10 years or in 10 lifetimes, that's rubbish. That's just another experience, another phenomena. Unless it is timelessly present, always, it's not worth it. So what is it that is already present?timelessly, right now and forever. It was present at your birth. It was present when you were 10 year old. The same presence, everything else changed. The face changed, the body changed, the self image changed.

That even changes hour to hour or minute to minute sometimes. But what doesn't? Because that is the only thing that is worthy of pursuing. Because that is timeless. That is eternal. And it is already here. And everybody has 100% certainty in it. The only problem is... That some may not realize that this is it. Like Buddhists say again, just this and nothing else. People often, and I was on the path of seeking. I was 41 when this ended. So for all those years, 20 plus, 30 practically from childhood, I always knew that I existed. There was always awareness of presence, but completely, completely overlooked, absolutely ignored.

And exchange, like Bob often quotes Bunky, exchange, Buddha mind, exchange for the thought. The no, no, there must be more. There must be something else. For me, I want more, something different, not this. Better experience, more.more pleasant, more elevated, more blissful. Not this. I see there is a comment on the screen and I invite everyone to put the hand up or unmute. And, you know, it is a common space. It is a group investigation. So anyone who has any insight, anything to add, Yvonne says, with eyes closed, the eyes of the body can't see. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. The capacity for seeing is there, but this flip of the electricity is off.

So.Thank you, Kat. Let the I be single. This was so beautiful. I mean, it was such a joy listening to your flow. And what really struck me again, you know, is the summary that came to me was the question, you know, who's running the show? That to me has always been the realization, the waking up from the thought that I, that there's something that's running the show, you know, that there is this little, and this persona who runs the show.But when I look at it, when I investigate it, I realize that no, I mean, things, life just is happening. Life has been happening and life continues to happen.

And it gives me so much freedom because it also relieves. Guilt over, oh, I should have chosen that, or I should have done that, or what if I had, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All those stories. And just like you pointed out, it's the life energy, it's the energy, it's life itself that's creating, that's moving, that's shaping, that's making everything comes blossom, you know? And I love it when you also highlight again and again how it's the mind when it starts to ask questions. Because what I've seen is that if I start to think and analyze too much, then I get further and further away from...Yeah, what I've known all my life, but what has been obscured by beliefs and concepts and thoughts about not knowing and that there was something to get.

And I don't know who, if it's a Bob quote originally, but I think I heard Gilbert Schultz say it at some point, that if there was something to get, where would you put it? In your back pocket? And that really, that also hit me. And I laughed so hard when I heard that because, yeah.And that leads, you know, like we think there's something to get, but like when we come into life, we come with nothing. And then we think we shall accumulate all these beautiful things and many beautiful things around us. But bottom line is that when we exit, we can't bring anything with us.

So it's all, you know, it's like part of the dream. It's like when you're in the cinema, you're there, you're sitting, you're watching the screen, you're all in the movie, you're really... Like this and maybe totally on edge and then when the movie's over it's over and you can whether take the characters with you or the anything you're just as naked when you walk out of the movie like when you got in to sit down and watch it soYeah, that's what comes here. And also to remind that the doubts are doubts. Also, just like you said, like you pointed out again and again, that that too is just a creation.

Yeah. In essence, it's about not taking things so seriously, isn't it? Whether thoughts nor happenings nor just be to the best of my ability in that moment or whatever.Yeah, and I love how you express, Jenny. It's always so gorgeous. The common theme that I hear from the non-duality community around here too is how so many have spent years on the so-called path, collecting concepts and images and fantastical ideas about this and that. And one of the challenges when presented with the clarity of actually it's just this and nothing else, and the idea is to drop all those concepts, shed them. And this is one of the biggest challenges for a lot of people who spent years seeking attachment to those concepts that are so, yeah, become.

and deeply part of the seeker image. Yeah, the identity. The identity of the seeker and all of that. Yeah. And, you know, we want to be light. We want to fly like birds. We don't want to drop all of that and just... Be the freedom of that, as you say, the pleasure and the release and the relief of not having to adopt any position of, oh, I'm guilty or, oh, I'm responsible or I'm wonderful because I did this, I did that. It's just happening and there is no little person there pulling the strings or it's just going on. And wow, it's just what a beautiful, beautiful gift to know that.

Yeah. Yeah. Different way of being where every moment is surprised and you are open and you can see. And I love when you highlighted the fact that, yes, the shedding, the tight costume of concepts, costume of beliefs that kind of bind you and you have to defend them because they are right. And if someone disagrees, you know, the conspiracies, the fanaticism, the fanaticism of every position taken in the dream. And it may be still happening.But you may see that this is not personal and it's not you and it's not yours. It's happening through the habitual attachment or basically just mechanicalness of the body. The body, let's say, was conditioned to defend whatever.

Yeah. And with the greater intensity with which I defend my position, the better a seeker I am. You resonate with that. And I do also love, Jenny, that you highlight and throw back the fact that, you know, the consequence of realizing that what is, is not because of anyone running the show. So there's no one there who could ever get it wrong or right. It is really so beautifully flowy like a river. It doesn't say this is my valley or this is my direction. Andrew, did you want to say something or was it my mistake? Come on, say something. Oh, well, every time I was going to say something, You say exactly what I was going to say.

Because you were talking about, well, that's the way it should be anyway, because we're all talking about the one.You're talking about you cannot objectify yourself. And the easiest way to see that is when you meet somebody for the first time, you hold out your hand and you say, hello, I am Andrew. You cannot, you can never objectify that what the I am is. You can only say, you can only sell the person into your false paradigm with you. You know, I'm Andrew and I'm living in Thailand and I'm 60 years old, blah, blah, blah. Because when you stop and try and define what the I am is,You can't.

You just can't turn it into an object or anything. And I was also going to say something about the cinema. You know, Jenny's talking about it as well. It's when you go into... Watch a movie and You know, you can be seeing explosions and fireballs and... Or, you know, on the other hand, it could be an ice age. You watch ice road truckers on TV. The TV doesn't start to freeze up and get barnacles, get ice. Icicles on it, the TV doesn't catch fire or the movie screen doesn't touch fire in the same way that your awareness is never modified, altered or corrected by anything that appears within it.

And I was talking the other day aboutWhen I go back to Australia, I walk around my old neighborhood. There's a primary school I used to go to and the church, you know, First Communion and all that nonsense. And, you know, and I look through it and I said, the only thing that's ever changed Well, the school, of course, has changed, and there's been generations of kids gone through that school since I was there. But the only thing that hasn't changed is the awareness that it's all appearing in, which is not subject to time. So you see yourself as that little kid running around in the primary school.

And then you see yourself as a teenager. And I walked past the place where my parents'house used to be. And I used to be the red-headed kid who played tennis on the wall. And you have to stop and think, well, who's observing or what's observing all that change. And all that change can only be ever seen from a point of changelessness, of timelessness, of spacelessness, of witnessing, pure witnessing, pure subjectivity. The pure subjectivity, everything is appearing within. That's the only thing that never changes.And you cannot alter, modify, or correct it by anything that's going on in it, no matter how bad things can be. Like when you go to sleep at night, you dream.

You might have a nightmare. You wake up in the morning, you immediately let it go. Oh, that was just a dream. But when you wake up and the mind kicks in, memory starts up, you create that paradigm again, that subject-object paradigm, time and space. And so it's just a matter of seeing that, seeing how it's all very mechanical and how the mind works in a very mechanical way. It works like a computer. Like on a computer, you have the RAM that accesses what's stored on the hard drive. All the information stored on the hard drive is accessible. The RAM has no nature of its own.

The RAM is like the conscious mind. Conscious mind is just seeing everything as it is. And then it will refer to memory. It will go back into the hard drive and say, what it's always been is evaluating information. That's what we're doing. That's the mechanical nature of the mind. Evaluate what's going on.And the only way that it can do that is through past experience. Well, how was that before? Oh, okay, it was like that. Okay, you know, but it's just a matter of seeing the mechanical nature of it and let it be and realize that's not who you really are. You are the witnessing, the pure subjectivity that can never be objectified, ever.

And we're all that. There's not one person here who isn't that. Even if you can't see that, you are that.Yep, that's that. Even if you can't see that, you are that. That's that. Until you are mute again, you have to unmute yourself. I feel like I'm walking in tight. Oh, now we lost Andrew's color. Maybe he was talking to someone else. I am. The answers. So much amazing sharing. Can you please put this one up on YouTube? We'll see. Thank you. And thank you. Even if you can't see that, you are that. Yes, says Jenny. Yes, I will see how the day unfolds tomorrow. I think we have a pretty big day.

Did you actually hear what I said, Deb? I had a feeling I was talking to myself. Yeah, you got muted. You muted yourself. You have to repeat it. We heard what you said. Oh, you heard what I said, okay. Oh, you know, there's more. No, no, there was more. There was more. There was more. The last thing, Andrew, that we heard, it was that even if you can't see that you are that, you are still that. That was the last thing. So tell us more. That will do.That'll have to do. Give someone else a go. No, it was beautiful. If you can expand on this one, come on.

Well, all I can say is like, hey, Again, I can repeat that again because it's so fundamentally important is to see you can have an image in your mind of when you were a little kid, right? Are you that little kid anymore? No. You have an image in your mind that you're a teenager. Are you that teenager? No, I'm becoming a crusty old guy now, right?You have to see that all those images are appearing in the awareness. You're none of them. You're none of them. You're just the... Andrew, I think you actually touched it. Maybe you just put the finger on your mic because we lost the sound again.where the mic is.

I'm on the mobile. Yeah, now we can hear you again, yes. Maybe I was. I was saying like when you're a young kid, you have that image of yourself as a young child, you have that image of yourself as a teenager, and you have that image of yourself as a young adult. And now that I'm some crusty old dude, right, I have an image of myself as a crusty old dude, but none of them are real. They're all just the images.You are the witnessing, the observing, the subjectivity. You can never make yourself into a noun. You're a verb, a doing, a being, a seeing, all going on, and there's no entity there at all that you can call me.

And that's about it. I hope you heard that. Yeah, we did. Yes, and that's it. Yes, that's the base. There is no entity. The entity cannot be found. The separate self of any substance or any independent nature cannot be found. That's a quote of Bob's brilliant book. And that image example, that's a great example. You can see how the image changes over time in that big span of time, but you can even see how the image changes through the day, self-image changes. And I remember that was one of the very few questions that I did ask Bob when I didn't really have any questions anymore.

I say, so don't you have conceptual images arising anymore? And Bob said, no, of course they arise. They're part of functioning. The conceptual image arising, part of functioning. Even dog will have some base.amount of like conceptualization or imaging like you know enemy or friend or food or or whatever you know that that sort of a basic functioning in humans it is elaborated and it is story attached and drama and so on but it is part of functioning the main thing is you know initially as a seeker i want to do it right so i want to stop judging I want to stop subscribing to the image.

I want to love myself or I want to be kind or, you know, that self-obsession, that preoccupation with the I, trying to fix the I or trying to be earnest and diligent and do everything it gets. I will take up the practice. I will never think or I will never talk to myself again. I remember I had actually, I had really, when I was still working at sea, I had a really, really brilliant British captain. So smart. I loved this guy. He was kind of, he was quite old. He should be retired long time. And he had like a fluffy white hair. He didn't really shower every day.

But his brain was absolutely beautiful. He knew so much. He understood so much. And he was pure in heart. I love to actually just drag him into a discussion.And once I came back to the ship after this was before I knew Bob, I went to Corsin Miracles Academy. I came back to the ship with my head shaved and he knew that I was into all that weird stuff, Zen and monasteries and now shave head. He says, this is too much. And then now explain me in simple words, why would you do such a thing? And I said, it was just really the expression of joy and freedom and detachment and not needing any of that curtains of hiding myself and makeups and hairs and dresses, just feeling completely elated and free and exposed and naked.

I even told him having the bald head makes you feel more naked than if you actually show up without clothing. And he laughed on one hand, but he said, but what it really is about? And I say, well, it really is about the freedom from the bondage of self, freedom from needing to put up with yourself, freedom from needing to dialogue with yourself, constantly have a chatter. And he says, I don't talk to myself. I don't talk in my head. I don't have any inner dialogue, you know, inner monologue going on in my head. I say, come on, come on, you know, let's come back to that tomorrow.day for the rest of the day try not to have that dialogue and you tell me how you're going and the next day he came and he goes you're messing with my head but today i've resolved i'm not talking to myself ever again willpower will achieve it yes but imagine having one of the greatest most brilliant brains and not realizing to the age of probably he was my i don't know definitely late 60s big bunch of white hair and not realizing that this is what is going on and the normal people every day people we pass on the street they may not even be aware they might not even have a concept that there is a thought to be aware of like andrew was saying the witnessing of the narrative of the monologues not even realizing because the attention is so busy with the content especially with your mind when your mind is brilliant and he told me the stories you wouldn't believe no history books would ever even put it out loud and history of Great Britain and the world.

So being so in love with that incredibly colorful and incredibly brilliant concepts and models, you don't even see any, you don't even have any incentive torealize that this is just the blah blah going in the head because it's so lovely and it gives you such a sense of understanding and being you know like a part of the world but yes at that point he resolved never to talk to him to himself again and of course we know how it ends It's impossible because he doesn't do the talking. He never did the talking. He never thought a thought. Thoughts are arising. Nobody does the thinking. Thinking is arising just the same way as the ships are arising on the horizon and we just dodge them.

But it's such a human... A concept to believe that we have to think our way out of something. Yes. We have to think our way out of a problem. You've got to start thinking the minute you get up in the morning to plan your day, anticipate the meetings you're going to have, what problems you're going to encounter, what are your options. And the mind is your ally. You're a friend. And it's there to do its job. It's advisor. And it's you. And you are helping yourself. So it's hard to then, you know, go, oh, shit, actually, that's not me. No. Who the hell is that?And now another problem arises that people at that point think, okay, so I should stop thinking now.

I should stop solving problems now. I should stop engaging and resolving to, you know, paying taxes, work. No, there is no you. You haven't started. You can't stop. This is what's happening. Yes. And then the mind, if the situation is calling for it, the solution, the judgment, the comparison, the working out the things, it arises. But now there is not me doing it. I am not doing any of it. And I never did. Because now you've taken a look. You've investigated. You've actually, it's so fundamental. It takes decades for some to actually go and take a look. What is your actual experience? Take a look.

What can you find? Yeah. Where is that boundary that defines the you or that point somewhere behind the eyes or wherever it feels like it is? Yes. And that too is a concept. Holy. Yeah. It can't be found. It can't. Like Jenny says, Bob's question, who runs the show? Yeah. He's driving the bus. Yeah.See, have a look and see. Anybody there? Anybody there running the show? Because if there is no one there and the show still runs, it runs itself. Then who is there to even take credit for running the show? And what a freedom to let it run. Let it rain. You know, who is doing the raining?

Let it rain. You know, it's that easy. It's that simple. Just being there and seeing how even without any deliberate action, whatever needs done will be done because the body will create an urge. The sink is full of dishes and the urge will come or the thought will arise and the washing of the dishes will happen, chopping the wood, carrying the water, it will happen of its own. There is no need for anyone to be in charge or to take credit for any actions. I see, Andrew, you are on mute. Would you like to jump in? Well, I've said it here before and I'll say it again.

Nobody gives a flying fuck about your thoughts. Nobody cares. The only time your thoughts have any meaning is when there's an I, a me, a mine, mine, my thoughts. That's the only reason. The only time they have any power. Like if you think back to when, how old is Bob, 90? Since Bob's been alive, how many people have come and gone? Billions of people have lived. And all those people had thoughts.All those people had, you know, at one time lived through the me and the mine. Where are they all now? Where are all their thoughts now? Where are yesterday's thoughts? Where are last week's thoughts?

Where are last month's thoughts? Where are they? They just come and they go. So just let them be. You'll find the only time thinking bothers you is when you hang on to it and you attach the me and the mind to your thoughts. Oh, then, in my thoughts.and you start to get all depressed about them. If you just leave them be, they'll move on. They'll move on. They won't hang around. They'll move on. They only hang around because you attach a me to them. And especially a poor me. And you have enough problem with your own self-image. You know, we have enough problem beating up on ourselves, let alone letting someone else's image of you have any power.

You know, we get hurt by words. And the old saying is sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me. And that's very true, but how many people actually follow that? People hold on to grudges for years and years over what somebody said to them. If you think your thought has no power over you, how the hell can someone else's thought have any power over you? Like I said, the answer's not in the mind, but the answer's not in somebody else's mind either. So why would you care what someone else thinks?Andrew, are you there? Did you hear that? I still talk.

Did you hear that? Yes. I think the last sentence got cut out. But we did hear that, you know, and I loved it. Absolutely. Nobody gives a shit about what you're thinking is. Nobody thinks about you either. Everybody's self-obsessed about themselves. And guess what? Nobody cares about your dreams either. Oh, I had a dream last night. Oh, really? You're in one. Yeah. Dreaming and dreaming and dreaming. Yeah, but Andrew, I love that, you know, what other people think of me is none of my business. Yeah. I agree. Their business. And then Jenny says here, I love that being a verb, not a noun. And Marianne and Deanne second to it.

Yes, it is brilliant. And Yvonne says, die will be done. And Deanne and Jenny second on this. And only thoughts can hurt, says Yvonne too. And Jenny says, don't attach to my, a my to the thought. That is a grateful advice. So grateful advice. Yeah, yeah, the my, that's the problem. I love when Bob points out that, you know, we say, this is my coat, this is my car, this is my house. It means that, you know, I'm not the body, this is my body. I'm not the mind, this is my mind. They are my thoughts, but they're not who I am. They're not what I am.

And the idea of ownership creates suffering. Because now that's personal. Now I have to defend it. This is my idea. This is my conspiracy. This is my belief system. I have to die for what I believe. A lot of the movies that are made around the idea that, oh, you just have to stand up for your beliefs. You have to defend your beliefs. Well, how about just breaking free from the bondage of believing? Yeah.But again, from life's perspective, there is a beauty. Me, my, my. That is from Yvonne. There is a beauty in also experiencing and expressing itself in this game of life, in that confines of the game.

That, okay, I'm culturally conditioned. I'm spiritually conditioned. I'm generationally conditioned. I'm sexually conditioned. Whatever those limitations of the game and when life takes a stance that this is what i am this is who i am you know like from from the ultimate perspective what a thrill what a thrill because even if there is no insight into the nature of reality at that point. And after whatever, 30 or 60 or 100 years of life, that body will stop, that animating life essence will stop animating it and will start decomposing it. Nothing has ever happened. Nothing has happened to that space or that consciousness. The bondage, the dream, it hasn't happened.

The dream of being trapped or being limited is just a dream. Life is never trapped. Life doesn't need to awaken. It is already awake. The awakening is only from the illusion or from themisconception of identity. Life doesn't need identity. It doesn't call itself anything, but it assumes it for the purpose of the game, for the play, for the experiencing, experiencing and expressing. And through myriad different means of experiencing and expressing. There's nothing wrong in those elements of the game which, you know, live for three months and die. Or live as a mosquito for a night and die. There's nothing wrong. Life doesn't die. Energy cannot be destroyed.

It's just a temporary flash of experience happening in that witnessing presence that is never touched by it. Like Andrew was saying, you know, you go to the movies and Jenny, you brought up the movie too. And I love that metaphor of the movie coming to the cinema and getting really wrapped with the story completely, completely mind stolen by the story. How lovely. Oh, what a great movie. How engaging. What a great movie is this one. How engaging, how real. Everybody's an Oscar actor, completely forgot they're acting. Completely taken by the role. How brilliant is life in this? What I found. Oh, sorry. Yeah, go on.

Okay. Now, what I found.so sad sometimes in life is when thoughts begin to limit life expression. You know, when life wants to flow, I've seen, I've worked with teenagers and students a lot. And when I could observe how the concepts about how we are supposed to be or how we are supposed to show up or how we are supposed to behave in certain situations, how that constricts and limits the life that wants to flow through the veins and give expression to that form. You know, and that I find so sad because I mean, a rose that's blossoming is not thinking, oh, Don, I wonder if that petal is sticking out a little bit too much.

It should be flatter. And that, oh, that leaf is not so, you know, blah, blah, blah. And that really, in essence, life gets messed up when life isn't allowed to flow. And what stops the flow of life is the thinking, is the conceptualizing around the flow. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And how beautiful that is.You actually really have that, you know, heart-opening experience when you see. And you're right, it is sad. And how beautiful that it is sad when you see a beautiful young rose blossoming in its prime, but still having anorexia or believing that I'm not good enough, I'm ugly, I'm unworthy, who's ever going to love me?

And, you know, I've been there, probably every one of you have been there at one point or maybe constantly, maybe residing there. But without that, without that horrible, sad misconception, that dark dream, we probably wouldn't be seeking liberation. That's again, that's the brilliance of life. Sometimes it just amplifies that suffering. Because in that, the birth of its opposite, of freedom, is obvious, it is evident. The manure that helps to grow the rose bush. Yeah. But would that mean that somebody who isn't so, how shall I put it? I mean, I also, part of me finds that a slippery river.road to say also that the more pain, the more self-knowledge.

Of course, self-pain often leads to the search. But the question I wanted to ask is that it must also be possible to realize self-knowledge. Or is it possible to do the striptease of self-realization or getting rid of the concept if one is not buried by dark concepts? Or is there actually also the possibility of...Yeah, how sharp do the contrasts have to be? I don't know. It's just, I'm in my head. I'm going back to the moment. It's totally relative. See, you know, people who have relatively little suffering, comparing to those who have burns like Tazi had burns on majority of his body and loss of finger and been through nightmares and pain, intensity of pain feels like, oh, that can't be compared with someone who just got refused the iPhone 10 or iPhone whatever 20.

But subjective suffering is something that cannot be quantified in objective scale. Exactly. So we can never say that. But one is certain. Life does not have any prerequisites, any limitations. There is the concept that life needs certain amount of suffering for even conceiving of the light. It's false. Life does not have any limitations. It's all there is. Is the newborn baby is already in the natural state then it may forget the natural state and exactly i i actually we had an interview with a with a girl from poland who does non-duality and she's she's beautiful she's brilliant she's And she never had suffering. She had a really healthy family.loving family, not much of a trauma going on.

And suffering was relatively quick when she got tuberculosis and got bedridden. And suddenly everything started changing. The experience started changing. There are also known situations, I think, Ramana Maharshi, he imagined or he got the thought that he was dying. And that was an experience. Also, there was no acute trauma or anything. It's not that life... Need certain conditions to be met. Life is, yeah, it doesn't. And I remember also hearing that, yes, the suffering may be a motivator for the inquiry, for the investigation. When someone is fairly happy and I can see it with my mom who used to follow me on to the Zen monasteries and non-duality retreats when she was miserable but the moment her life was fairly okay she would step down and enjoy the models of the mind and conspiracies and stuff that can she can find online and just just just have fun with it the moment life gets a little bit more shitty again she's back on no no I want out of this and so but this is just one example And there are situations and there definitely is an infinite field of possibilities for the realization spontaneous or for the seeking to start and stop.And with or without any amount of suffering, although to live through life without experiencing duality, that's impossible.

In the dream, duality is all there is. Without the duality, there is. So if there is no pain, well, pleasure cannot be known. If there is no sickness, health cannot be known. You know, little children who have never been sick, they don't really understand the value of health. The value of health is only brought forth when the health is lost. And then we realize, oh, shit, you know. So pain, pleasure, dark, light, winter, summer, cold, hot. All those things are part of the experiencing. But definitely no conditions, not that, you know, oh, I want it so badly, I'm going to cut my skin and put salt in it so the suffering will intensify, maybe I'll see through it.

No, no, no, no, we don't go there. Well, I think, you know, what's Buddha's original, Gautama? Bodhidharma? Yeah, but all of that was tried. Yeah. That doesn't. Yeah, yeah. Work, I think, you know, that was pretty, starving oneself and austerities and so on. Oh, Siddhartha Gautama, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then clarity came when finally I think he, sitting under the tree, accepted a bowl of food from a young girl and then there was some relief and release. But I just wanted to say too, you know, I had some experience with,depression and postnatal depression and other thyroid related mental health conditions over the years and but there's also life in medication in that in the antidepressants or in the in the treatments or in the presence of a you know a guiding mentor or whatever that's all in there too in the hospitals and with doctors yeah yeah so and nothing's wrong nothing's wrong nothing's included yeah yeah but thank you jenny this is a good point you know sometimes it kind of might sound like you know suffering is desirable in any way but it's not no it's absolutely No prerequisites.

It's just, I, I, some, it's like when we think about the baby, you know, I, I wonder, sometimes it makes me wonder if there is, you know, as everything already. Is that that is it is already so if the if everything is already when we're a baby and all the knowledge and and the knowing not that this knowing but the knowing is therehow shall I express it? So I have this languaging is that if that is the case, then it must also be the case that maybe Maybe it is possible for somebody, not for me. I walk the path of the pain. But maybe that there is somebody out there amongst all of us, eight whatever billion people, that...Never dressed.

Never dressed with all the concepts. Never got into the trap. But, you know. I can't explain it. It doesn't matter anyhow. Jenny, they are. Actually, we had one person in our group. His name was Tom. He shows up once in a year or so. He had, and this was, of course, diagnosed as some sort of disassociative disorder or whatever, some disorder. He got labeled as a child. He didn't develop sense of separate self. And he had to learn to emulate it. He says for all his life, he was just life experiencing and expressing itself. He got into trouble because he wasn't taking shit personally. It was really funny experience.

Yes, it totally is nothing impossible in the field. Yeah, I'm sure there would be more of those. Robert Adams? It's a similar sort of story. I don't know. He died of Parkinson's a few years ago. And there's a lady who lives in Jersey called refers to herself as Mother Mira. We knew she was born that way. Nothing's impossible in that colorful, beautiful appearance, in that beautiful experience. We're all born that way. Yeah, we all. Yeah, yeah. Not born. And it's so interesting.It's so interesting to see how the concepts are, how when you share this example, that all the things that when we now think that duality is, you know, something negative when we start to believe in this separate self.

That we see that actually it's also a requisite maybe for cruising through this experience of life in a communicative way with other human beings, that really the only thing that gets us in trouble is when we...when we believe that we're one or the other in a sense, you know, when we don't see that we are to the both sides of the coin. That we are walking in somehow in two worlds at the same time, or however I can, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are over time. And it is another little tip that I learned from Bob to actually stay into the time because people may have other commitments and they may feel shy to leave early.

So thank you. Thank you, everyone, for being with us. And we're going to be here in a couple of days. Thank you for all your contribution and your presence and lots of love. Ciao. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.