zoom 0 - Bob's very first recorded zoom group due to Coviud lockdowns in March 2020

In this video, I'll be talking about the Hi Bob, hi Kat. Hello. Hello Tess. Okay, so see how we go. We only had like four or five Skype IDs, but there's only four of us here. Either way. Someone need to try to connect it as you can see. I'm just adjusting a light here. Okay. Nice. You can start. Go ahead and remind us of Spiel. Different, different aspect from here, isn't it? In the lounge room. Can you hear me alright? Yes, I can hear you. Good. I can hear you. Hi, Shelly. Hi, Sally. Who's that other one? Ben? Yeah, you have the nice ear. Can you hear me now?

Yes, Shelly. Yeah. Hi Bob. Hi Tess. You all know what it's all about? It hasn't changed much. How can nonduality change if it's all the same? Yet, like the ocean, it's ever changing, it never changes. It's only ocean. Rick. Hi Rick. Hey Bob, hi Kat. How you doing? I woke up special and early for this. It's half eight in the morning in here. I have something to say. Always Bob, always, always. As you all should recognise and know, it's very simple. Single and simple. Nothing simpler than one. And it's not even one. It's the totality. One without a second. I've just put the idea in one of it.

It implies there could be other than. There is nothing other than that. Everything is that. Patent charge informs you, I, the room we're in, and everything else. It's all that modest, amazing intelligence, expresses through and suffuses it all. There's a good implication of the amazing wonderment of that one. It is the only power, if you like. A lot of us look for a higher power, or God, or whatever you know. And then we've got thoughts power, mind power, hearing power, and all these other powers. But it's all the one. Total power. Total power, omnipresence, total presence, total power, total intelligence. And like the absolute, can you divide or split the absolute?

What can you add to it? Nothing? What can you take away from it? Nothing? Well, it's that absolute that they talk about. That's all there is. You see how we've divided it up and taking it to be separate entities, individuals, persons, things. And the basic screen is no thing. Basic screen is a space like emptiness, the silence and the stillness that everything appears in Just like every reflection needs a shining surface to reflect it Otherwise it couldn't reflect. So every, all this manifestation are like reflections and they call it dreamlike. And when you investigate, you'll see that's how it's appearing. Appearing seemingly real, but like a reflection.

You go up and try to grab the reflection in the mirror or the image in the mirror. All you'll do is grab the mirror and you'll see, you can't say it's not there because it appears there. It can be an image of you or me or other things in the room. All reflect on that reflecting surface. Try and go and grab one you can't. Can't say they are not there, they appear to be there. But you can't say they are there when you try to grab it. So we say here, and have said so for many, many years, that you are already that. And that's the great mantra we talk about, I am that.

This is that. That's that. Everything is that. Don't you innately already know that in your language? Do you already know that in your language? When you're expressing something to somebody or saying something, that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. Everything is that, we know it already. That's me, that's you, but we put the label or the word on it. And that's what we need to understand. That the word is not the thing. Another way of putting it is the map is not the territory. You're looking the other way, there's all that information in it. But when you look it up, you're not there until you really get there.

Then you are there. But it's a good pointer. The expression, the person or the thing is not the reality. It's labels we put on it. The map's not the territory. The signpost is a pointer. The description can never be described as described and that's what we're trying to do right now is describe something. What we're describing will never be its description. But in hearing the description, letting it resonate, let it rest in its uncontrived singularity, Where it's being resonated with all the hearing is happening. From that reservation that point like like the dreamed in dream that pattern to recognize So, we recognize there's a bit more than that pattern.

That the essence of it is one and only. Only and ever that. So, as I start from the fact you already are that, and then most of us have got the idea that we're on some path of some sort, which we do all sorts of disciplines and things like that have been pointed or asked I am that and thou art that, everything is that. What is there, who's to become what? Well, when can they become anything if you're already there? So start with that fact, whether you understand it or know it or not. But if you start from any other place in trying to become that, trying to get there, becoming, being can never be becoming.

And that's what you are, the being, it's the pure being. There's a saying in the Advaita teachings Sat Chit Ananda, Nama Rupa, that's the five factors. Sat is existence, Chit is consciousness, Ananda is loving to be or blissful, and Nama Rupa, the name and form of the body is the name you put on yourself or the thing, whatever it is in the name, and the form is the shape or pattern it appears in. And they tell us loudly and clearly that Nama Rupa, name and form are Maya, they're illusion. There have always been and always will be illusion, appearances, a phenomenal, all this manifestation is made up of things, name and form.

And you see, you look around and everything you see, you have a label for it and whatever form it is, the tree is a label you put on it, the flower is a label you put on it, space This is the label you put on it and the forms all these things are appearing in are the phenomenal manifestation And the dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be What does appearance mean? It's only seemingly so. Only seems to be so. And what differentiates it? It's the thinking, the reasoning capacity which expresses our thoughts, feelings and emotions. Thinking. Shakespeare told you that true 400 years ago when he said, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes us sad.

Now let that resonate for a little while. And that's not anything I can say, think or do. It's either gonna be good, pleasant, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, It's going to be either good or bad, or somewhere in the pairs of opposites, because that's the way this mind functions, in each and every one of us. In the pairs of opposites, past, future, present, painful, happy, sad, loving-hating, positive-needing, watch your mind and see for yourself. Have a look and see if it functions any other way. If I'm not put in any thought, what is it then without the thought? Can I say it's good? Can I say it's bad?

Can I say it's pleasant, painful, or anything at all about it? It's just as it is. As it is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. What can alter it, modify it, or correct it? The word. Understand again by investigating and seeing for yourself that the word is not the real. Take the word water, can you drink it? Can you drink that word? Can you swim with it? Can you drown? You know how to be a rose scholar to work that out? You know you can't. The word fire, does it burn your mouth? Can you cook with it? Can you eat yourself? You can't. And the word me, what is it?

What's me? I believe it is me, this pattern shape and form, me, Bob, the Australian, the good fella, or the unhappy fella, the fella's having a bad trot, or fearful, or anxious. The word me is what I take to be myself, or this persona, this mask. But the word is not the thing. No word is the thing. We've taken the bird and then we put all sorts of concepts on it other than the word and get lost in the word. And the description, as I pointed out earlier, can never be the described. As we say, we try to describe something now but it's not its description.

So look at these things, investigate, see for yourself and keep re-minding yourself But the word is not the real. Ask yourself a simple question, what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? What are you going to choose? Try and do that. Try and see what is there if you're not putting any words in. If you let it go, you haven't attached to it or fixated on it. What can you say? Can you differentiate the thinking then into good, bad, pleasant, painful? Isn't it just as it is? Just as it is, unaltered, unmodified, untriggered. How did it all come about? Because we learned words, we acquired words, we picked words up along the way.

If I ask yourself, can you remember your birth? You'll say no, because you can't remember your birth. You don't remember anything till you're about two, two and a half, or it might be earlier, it might be later. When this capacity of reasoning which is with you right now was picked up along the way. Capacity of reasoning, very useful capacity but it's a vibration like all the other thoughts, good and bad, pleasant and pleasant. So the capacity of reasoning, it's dividing but it's dividing instead of leaving you in the totality you're putting these concepts, you've labelled some concepts you've got about yourself and discriminating what's happening.

And what do we do? We like the good, don't like the bad. Well, that's natural. The things we enjoy, we want to keep. The things we don't like, we don't want to keep. We want to get away from them. So in that discrimination, what do we do discriminating? We discriminate the words or the thoughts. Can you discriminate that life essence that you are right in this moment without the words? What can you say about yourself? You can't negate your beingness. You can't say I am not. And that would be a grim of words anyway. So if you can't say you are not, what must you do?

Me? Well, naturally you say if I can't say I'm not, I must be. If I'm not unaware, I'm aware right now. If I'm not unaware, I must be aware. Because that awareness is the opposite concept to unawareness. So again, if you're not unaware right now, then you're not unconscious right now, you're not existing right now. So you must be existent, you must be conscious, and you must be happy to be. Sat Chitinanda. Now what are you going to do with the name and root, with the name and form? If there not a label that you can take to be yourself and believe in not a word that can say this is what I am The basic sense of presence translates to the thought I am That thought I am are two words.

I am-ness, Nisargad had it told. And he says stay with the I am-ness. What does that I am represent? Doesn't represent the sense of presence. As I say, you're existing right now, that sense of presence must be there. You can't say it is not. So it's not saying stay with the thought I am, because that's a description on it, that's a label. Stay with that sense of presence. Negate your beingness, negate your presence right now. You can't. You say I know that I am. I don't believe that I am. Tony can go to sleep in here. Keep going. You don't believe that I am? You know that you may.

Stay with that knowingness. That knowingness is with you right now. Anybody who is not knowing right now. And you must reason or recognise, yeah, no I'm Not knowing, I am knowing. Try and negate it. Try and negate it if you can. You can say, I don't know from here to eternity. But if that knowing wasn't there, you wouldn't be able to say it. You wouldn't know anything about it. Because it's expressing as the reality, not the word. All these words we've learned, we put the concept right here that is personal. I am the person, the separate entity, implying I'm a separate entity, I'm an individual.

Where does that word person come from? Doesn't it come from the label persona, Latin word I think it was, Latin persona, meaning And what's the mask we've got? Not a paper mask, it's a mask of concepts, of words. We've added to these words conceptual image, and that gives us some seeming solid substantial identity as the person, the separate entity, the individual. But realise when you investigate and see that it is only a conceptual image, a mask of words we put on ourselves, you're going to continue to believe you are a mask of words. When you can't find any mask that's nothing but a mental or conceptual imagined mask, the words not being the real, there's no word that has any static point, any beginning.

Any end. What is the word? A mental construct. A mental construct and by the time when it's out there and we take a belief in it, it's a construct that's had a beginning and will have an end. It's not the presence-awareness that's going on right now. We're relating it constantly to this dead image. Me, Bob, the Australian, had a bad childhood, unhappy, depressed, can't do this, can't do that, and do all of that. It's all dead now. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? What thought is there right in this total presence? Well, always fresh and new thoughts coming up. But we don't, we've left, we haven't let the old go and we keep relating to the old, which is now a dead image.

And can a dead image, can a corpse keep up with life? It can't, it's finished, it's over. But you are the life which is ever fresh and ever new. It's spontaneous prior to any words or thoughts or ideas or concepts or language. But the words would come up, they're generally old words. We've learnt the reasoning with before, take them to be real. But the word is not the real. It's not the thing. As I pointed out earlier, take the word water, take the word fire, take the word earth, it's not the thing. So does it mean to say you're going to get do away with words?

No. Words can be very useful. You can work out some things with words of the mind, but it's also a vibration. And like every other word or thought or idea, Being a vibration, it vibrates in the opposites. So it's very useful, but it's also self-destructive, if we believe it. And what the hell do we mean by ever beating ourselves? Or have ever, will ever beat ourselves to it? Isn't it the word? I'm not good enough, or I'm fearful, or I'm unhappy, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, jealous, envious. People don't like me, or I shouldn't have said that. Constantly beating ourselves with the dead word. And the word cannot keep up with life.

Because life itself is ever fresh and ever free. It's not bound by anything at all. Never was, never will be, never could be. Ever fresh and ever new. And so when we talk about timelessness,

See that time itself is a mental concept because time has a beginning and anything that has a beginning must have an end but they talk about in the scripture they talk about eternity and we think we're going to find eternity in a few billion light years from now and it isn't. Eternity is right in this very moment Seemingly moment which is beginningness, no static point, then endless, no duration to it whatsoever.

So when does now begin? Try and grasp now, you'll say, alright, I got it now. As soon as you said that, it's moved on, hasn't it? So you've got to try again, right now. It's all moved on. So there's nothing static there to latch onto, so it's constantly changing. And the changing cannot keep up with life, with the ever-fresh. It's constant. The change cannot keep up with what is changeless. Changes is that ever-fresh, ever-spontaneous. As I said earlier, the ever-changing, but never changing, like the ocean. Now, look at the ocean. It can be very still, peaceful, but then a ripple will occur, some movement, wind will blow, a current or something, a wave will start to form.

So it's changing. It's still the same ocean. But the vibrations and things appearing on it are making it seemingly change into salamis, big waves, and all the rest of it, constantly changing. Now with these thoughts were going on, that constant change is going on and in that constant change is the concept of time. And people look at it and say you've got to try and stay in the now. Now is the ever fresh beginning standard. Have a look at it. If you realise it's changeless, that it's only that which appears in it like the raves and the ripples and everything on the ocean, you're appearing on it.

They have the water still water, whether it's got a wave on it, whether it's got a still or a file. So this life essence that you are is still that life essence, whether the thoughts, feelings or emotions or anything else appear in it. So you are the changeless, you are that life essence, not the body, not the mind, not the appearance which it pattern shapes and forms in, but the life essence it's all. And have a look at that. You've seen a few corpses in your day, I guess. Well, have a look at the corpse. Where's the life in it? And how much you love them, how much you want them.

The life has gone out of that body. Now, isn't it not going to stop changing because the life has gone out of it. The change will be more rapid after it starts to break down. And before it's broken down, have a look at it and realise that lifeless corpse has got all the organs in the body. They haven't been taken out at that stage and haven't rotted away. They've got the eyes, got the ears, the heart, the lungs, the kidneys, the liver, all the organs are there. But now they're not a bit of good to it. Not a bit of good to it because there's no life essence in them.

What must you be? Are you the body? Are you the mind? Are you this person? Are you this individual? But now the life's taken out of you and it's just a bloody corpse. What must you be? The reasoning tells you, I must be that life. This is what Christ pointed out many years ago when people thought he was talking about himself. He's saying, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. Not talking about himself, talking about that sense of presence again. Not the I am-ness, but the sense of presence which represents that I am. I am is the way, I am is the truth, I am is the life.

Go to that sense of presence. And presence can never be the past or the future. It is this actuality right now. And when was I am that? And you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. When was I ever not that? Was I ever not that? As far back as I can remember, that sense of presence has been there. And looking at other patterns being shaped, formed and born and all that, you realise that life essence is still functioning in the womb of the mothers. I'm going to find that as it's growing near. So it's still functioning near before it's born into a little embryo, a little fetus.

There's still that life in it there. And go back to the sperm in your father, eaten from the food and the prana, the airy breed, and the ovum in your mother. See, they're fused with intelligence, energy also. The sperm swam to the ovum. The ovum attached itself to all the uterus. They weren't two just blobs of gum. They had the capacity to utilise that intelligence and the intelligence was being utilised without the word. Without the word, they haven't acquired any words in those days. They haven't acquired even a body to express through. That life was there. So that would be... Can you separate yourself from that life?

Though we appear to be separate. But even when you were a little baby, the life, or in the womb, you were still that life then. Before that you were the father and your mother The life in essence was in them And then before their parents and things before them and whatever whatever the It's been the one life that's pattening, shaping, forming, and expressing as everything. And if we're talking about nonduality, and you know who are the nondual, you must be that because that is all there is. It's not a personal life or a particular life. It's the one life that pattern shapes and forms in variety of pattern shapes and forms.

There's still one essence. And you are that start with the fact you already have and keep as the scriptural saying says, be you transformed by the renewing of your mind. How would you renew your mind? Well, if you think you're forgetting something, what would you do? I would remind yourself, just look into this and see, remind yourself I'm already that. Have another look, is this so? Yes, I am this body. No, am I this mind? No, I'm prior to that because I was a little fetus at one stage, I was in the womb at one stage. I was every other molecule and part of it.

So I haven't begun anywhere, not as a person, not with anyone. I am the beginning of the beginning and the endless end of it. So got any doubts, questions, or arguments, bring them up, tell us how you're going with it, because every one of you have had taste of it at some time or other. Some of you, if you're looking into it closely, they'll become more frequent until it can't negate it. It's overwhelmingly there. But the old habit patterns, some of them die hard. And they're gonna be looked at again and again by re-mining. Going back to reminding that I am already that. I'm not just conceptually just coming up and telling me otherwise I am that.

So that's what we're all about. That's what we ask and have a look, questions. And Re-cognizing, a cognizing emptiness, that is the Buddha called it. And we think we are cognizing the emptiness, but we're not. It's the emptiness itself that's doing the cognizing. And he made the statement then that emptiness is form, but this cognizing emptiness is what is forming, patterning, and expressing as everything. And the form can be nothing other than that interest. So it's still one and the same interest. And you can't be anything other than that. Start with it, away you go. And now technical issue. Everyone is mute just to keep the sound as good as it can be.

So if you know how to unmute and mute yourself, there should be a little button on the screen to mute and unmute. Then just go on and unmute yourself and ask questions. If you are not sure then I will just unmute everyone and then whoever wants to mute themselves back go for it also because yeah we gotta learn that thing. I hope there are people more experienced than us. Thanks for spiel. Who doesn't want to ask questions can just press mute so we will have a little bit of a silence. And who has anything to add, to share, a question? Jamie's family talking so we muted.

Hi Kat, hi Bob, Megan. Hi Megan. Hi. Um, yeah, I find it works best in these moments if the host mutes everyone. And then whoever wants to speak indicates or unmute themselves. Quiet and... Because otherwise there's all that feedback from people that are not speaking. Yeah, I'm just trying to mute everyone. I mean right now it's just you and Adrian that are on mute. There we go. Oh, it's just you. Okay, thanks. Thanks Bob. It's lovely to hear you, lovely to hear the spiel. I guess what's come up for me today is a frustration around trying to help someone. But after hearing you, I guess it's an illusion that I can help anyone else.

There's an energy and a good intention to wanting to help someone in program. I think, oh, they could die if they don't get that. And I'm working really hard at the moment, like with my work, because it's all gone online. And then there was this intolerance to all the messages. And I noticed the I came back and the I had all these opinions and frustrations. And I guess is there a way I could see through all that better but still act in a seemingly helpful way You never had never can and never will But let what spontaneously comes up if they got the concept right here you need to help well open your mouth and see what comes out You probably find it will come out naturally effortlessly and spontaneously And it might be a bit rough passage to start with I was very lucky to have a friend who was a very good teacher and I think that what I'm trying to do.

I'm trying to get people to understand what I'm trying to do. And I think that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get people to understand what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get people to understand what I'm trying to do. If they've got the concept right here, you need to help, well, open your mouth and see what comes out. You'll probably find it will come out naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously. And it might be a bit rough passage to start with. I was very rough here for many years. As it's gone on over the years, I think it's got a bit better, I hope so.

But people are hearing, that's the main thing. And that's been the same with you. If the urge to help somebody is there, there'll be somebody that'll listen to it I'm going to say that and benefit by it naturally and effortlessly. Like I said, something turned me around in the first place when I never looked at any of this stuff. I was moved to do it by hearing somebody speak and what they said. And then after a while it started coming out of the end. And he said to you the only way you can help other people is to take them beyond the need for further help.

How did that turn things around? Well, they pointed out that I wasn't, what I've been trying to point out here, I wasn't the body or the mind, I wasn't a person. I'd heard that many, many times. But this time, something, what he said, it was the vibration or the energy, whatever it was. I really heard it and it dawned on me there and then, well I wasn't. Naturally, full of ego at the time, I says I'll never be caught in the mind again. But I walked out the door and I was. But it was never the same. Because once you see that false is false, you can never truly believe in it.

Have a look at that, so many things you've come up in your life, and you've seen through them, do you believe in them again? They might come up and you might use a lot of it, but you know the truth about it. And that's the old scripture saying, know the truth, the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You're free from the belief that they haven't any reality to them to them. When we were little kids, we all believed in Santa Claus. Who would believe him today? You wouldn't believe in him, but because you know kids get a lot of joy out of it, and helping them and giving them some comfort, comfort.

We'll play the role of Santa Claus and make out each truth. Go down to the ocean and see the blue sea. The sea's not blue, the sea water's not blue. It's clear but it appears to be so. But you know the truth about it. The old scripture was saying again, know the truth, the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You can only be free from the belief. Recognise a belief is not the actual. It's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. We've taken it on board, fallen on board without questioning it.

And I was doing this for years, for years and years from the time I first learned words. From our parents, school, society, everybody around. I believed in the words. But the letter was pointed out to me now. They all seem true, many things I couldn't believe in in the world. The reality, there wasn't this persona, there wasn't this body-mind, there was a pure intelligence energy, a non-gel one without a second. See if that's true, have a look at it in your skull, and you'll know the truth. Our habits are seemingly strong, seemingly, they've got no power in them at all, but because we believed them for so long, they've come second nature to us.

Seeing through them, you might have seen them quite a few times before the habit has broken. Surely as you keep cognising or seeing through, they must fall apart. There was nothing special. I said everybody's right. If they'd like to inquire and have a look, it can be theirs. It is theirs, whether they like it or not. But take the blinkers off, when a horse hasn't got any blinkers on, they can see much clearer. I would like to add something that won't be to you, Megan, because you saw through it, you know it, but for people who actually struggle in that difficult time with similar stuff, like impatience, including myself, There are strong patterns.

There is a lot of changing now and you may get frustrated with things and with people. That's natural. The thing to remember is to drop it like a hot potato because we tend now to actually conceptualize it. Oh yeah, I am impatient. Now I have the identity of someone who is impatient. Oh, I am frustrated. The truth is, you know, on the worst day I will be triggered by anything, because of the hormones, because of the weather, because of anything. But on the better days, the very same trigger will make me smile and give someone a hug. So to not fix any identity because of the, of a temporary, let's say I'm tired or whatever, for whatever reason, I would like to be helpful, but instead I bite or I bark at someone, because that's what the body does habitually.

But that's still not my identity, that's just a temporary response that comes from the body. And yeah, I know this is not your struggle, but there is a lot of people, including myself, who still have those patterns pretty strong. And the tendency to take it as okay that who I am that how I react No that not I a mystery I complete mystery I have no idea how going to react in two minutes or five minutes or with the next person that I see It is nice to actually have that open space and see what is the body going to do. I love when Bob told you to open your mouth and see what comes out.

Maybe the barking comes out and maybe that barking will actually stop someone's mind even more effective than the word of kindness. Who knows what's necessary? This is the whole world dancing. So it could be, yeah, just not to have a story. That's the best thing. And while you were both talking, I was thinking of that fundamental point that nothing happened. Belief in worship, something happened. But it's really beautiful motivation to actually even come with the idea, how can I support people better? How can I help people better? Oh my God, how beautiful to actually hear that. Because what I'm seeing around is, I wish everyone had that type of an attitude.

That's, yeah. I just find it such a joyous message, particularly hearing it today, but, and also around the patterns, Because that is the strongest hook for me is in seeing patterns and realizing, needing to realize or remain convinced that I don't have to do anything to change them. Because that's probably the strongest pattern of all, to be self-reflecting, self-evaluating, why did I do that, how was that perceived. And then to want to take some action towards it or to think even just to think about it. And yet in truth, the freedom is that you don't need to change a thing. But to be able to really hear that, to really take that in, to really be convinced of that.

Well, in fact, and you can't even do that, so trying to be convinced of that or remember it can be just another sneaky pattern getting in as well. But when I do get it, when I do recognize it, that there's nothing for this action figure to do it or nothing to change, nothing to worry about. It's wonderful when it comes from the angle you don't have to. In fact, you can't even if you did have to. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you don't have to and you can't anyway. So, yeah. The society is telling you that you do have to, you know, that if you are impotent or if you are angry, you do have to change, you do have to take responsibility for your actions.

You have to stop it, you have free will, you can do it. Yeah, yeah. Choose it. It's nonsense, it's bullshit. You can't. Yeah. Yeah, it's gorgeous. And at the same time, you know, as a consciousness you can recognize it. The consciousness can recognize the pattern, and while the pattern is recognized, It's depersonalised and it starts breaking automatically. I have a question. Go for it. Who's talking? Is it me or someone else? Go ahead, Tess. Thanks. Is that you, Dima? It is. How are you? So Bob, I'm just trying to stabilise my phone here. It's been a rough, how does one put this? I've noticed that there's been a real fixation on who I am in relation to the changes that I'm perceiving with the news of the virus and the implications of the virus.

So I've noticed that there's a real fixed self now. So when you said earlier in your spiel about that's the chair, that's the carpet, the things that I normally refer to, my normal reference points, that's my job, that's my sister, that's my coffee shop, seem to all be changing at the moment so there seems to be a real um confusion as to um or the illusion maybe there's a a point of really seeing through even what I thought was real uh maybe there's a calling to to investigate further but but I'm noticing that there's a real um I'm closing in, the sense of eyes is more fixed at the moment.

Can you expand it? If it's closed again, can you push it out? And take that which is cramping it up, take that in to the inner circle. Bring the world in. Expand it. Instead of isolating it. Just until you get used to the habit. I remember Bob you used to ask that question, it's a really nice question to remember. Are you the body and the consciousness is within you? Or are you the consciousness and the body is Because if you at this moment if you shift from being the body-mind and having the consciousness or having the awareness to being the awareness that is having the body that is the expansion of Bokos.

Yeah. Yeah. And when it's closing in you're encapsulating what's closing in. Yeah it really it's it's been closing in and there's been glimpses of the other side but I I found today that there's been more of the closing in, but what Kat just said sort of opened it up again. Yeah. And one more question, I suppose in relation to that. Earlier when you were talking about you're not the body-mind, and that at one point we were an embryo, And then, so that opens it up for me that I'm not what I think I am. But then, as an embryo, I didn't think. So the entry of thought comes in when, when the capacity to reason happens?

Is that when thought occurs? Yes, that's when your first little song words He was about the age there. There he was long before that, but then something awakens in him and he starts, I am or I am little Johnny. And he learns words like Billy or Johnny or B or I. And then naturally, being a bold voice, the opposite must be there. So he looks around the room and says, that doesn't fit me. Or little Billy. The sense of separation comes a bit. And with that sense of separation, if you feel separate, well you feel also separated. And with that, especially for a little child, comes insecurity.

If you're very insecure, if it doesn't allow it, you're invulnerable. That's when our search starts. Because we're seeking, we want to become secure and whole. We've not realised that we're always secure and whole, never separate in the first place, but now we've got the belief that we're separate. And our schools, our parents reinforce us. The story that was on here is that you go to school, your teachers reinforce you, in other words society and everybody, and you start reinforcing yourself. So it becomes the ordinary way of functioning. The mind starts vibrating in the pairs of opposites. And thinking is the core, is what comes through that.

And we don't even look into the thinking from that time, we just take it for granted. Stelisand's point of Shakespeare says, nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. It makes it so, thinking. Nisargad tells you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Imagination, break it down to image in, imagine. And that's all we do, we're creating conceptual or mental images. Taking those images to be real without the energy of belief going into it. And that energy of belief makes it seemingly real. And then we go on from there, keep believing and keep the important. Somebody moves you out of the trap, starts to look somewhere else.

Some calamity, some disaster, or some just nice, set of up and out or something. Something turns you around, puts you on the so-called spar, which is no bar. Thank you. Thank you. Going back to the previous discussion around patterns and to not intervene, just let be because We put words around that and then we believe that that is the reality if that makes sense. But what if those patterns are destructive like evictions? That's one question. And a follow-on question, I think it relates to the current crisis. Haven't we got an obligation if we see people ignoring social distancing, for example, we see that as a reality and we need to positively try and change that behavior because it has a positive impact not only on us but society as a whole I'm just trying to conceptualize those two concepts which to me seem a bit contradictory I hope that makes sense Well, if you move to try, you'll try.

Instead of attributing it to the person, see what the life essence behind it, the energy behind it. I am a I am a You can have breakthroughs if something makes you move in a certain direction or do something or bring about you know It won be the thinking that thought out about it be the innate intelligence using the thoughts and feelings And that is usually what happens if there is a strong feeling in the body that certain pattern is destructive, There will be also thoughts and guidance in the body how to deal with that and leave things like Bob has these three words which are really helpful about what the non-doer can do.

Leave things unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, which means the non-doer can do nothing. Every time just leave as it is. And then there is a pattern of let's say violence or biting your nails or smoking cigarettes. And if in the whole system there is a strong conviction that this pattern is destructive and it has to be broken, that conviction also needs to be left unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. It doesn't mean that we go along with smoking cigarettes if we believe it's destructive. It means let the pattern, the life who gave you a thought to do something about it, I mean, everything is just to be given credit where credit is due.

So the life is the ultimate doer. If the life moves you to develop the pattern, the life may move you to break the pattern. But the thing is, it's not me, a personal identity or the mask that is doing the work to break the pattern. It is the thought or the inner sort of urge that comes from life that makes it. Even as the urge has come up that there's an addiction and you want to do something about it. You might have had that addiction for a long time and never wanted to do anything about it at all. Now something has moved you to look a little bit further.

And if you keep ignoring and that urge is strong enough there, it'll keep coming up, and it'll force you to do so. But it's to be actually, to be conscious enough to see all those inner struggles and inner fights and conflicts, Translating from Indonesian And just embraced by this conscious awareness or acceptance, just being acknowledged. And of course in certain body-minds it will happen the way it happened in Nisargadatta. He died of throat cancer. The thought to stop smoking never came up. And well, so what? From the perspective of this life force or intelligence, some bodies will die of cancer, I am every one of them.

So it doesn't really matter whether this particular one gets over or doesn't get over the addiction. From the individual perspective that's very important. So the individual will struggle what's good or bad. And the good or bad will be always what they have been told by the parents or society or the culture. Because in different culture there would be different definition. But to actually see that struggle and leave it as it is, that's the freedom. Because even to see the inner conflict, oh should I, shouldn't I, what am I gonna do, even to see that, it could be just a delightful experience of life expressing rather than a torture, than torment inner.

Yeah, that's the freedom, just always step back and see the pattern as impersonal. What's that line, Kat, in the nine pieces of Zen around standards and morality that we've spoken about before? Oh yeah, that was, oh gosh, I don't know if I remember that correctly, But I think it was when you lose sight of the way, the morality and ethics are born. When you stop resonating with the innate truth, you need rules. So rules are basically just to manage the unconsciousness, one could say. It also said in that, if I can remember it correctly, in the same book, Nine Pieces of Zen, really plugging it, to aim for some imagined state of perfection is like ignoring the feast right in front of you.

Oh, how beautiful. I've been chewing on that one. This one is a wonderful reminder. Yeah, because that's usually the main obstruction in, well, it was my story and I hear it in many, many people. The main obstacle of realizing that the freedom is right here, right now, is to imagine that it is not. I am the light that will be happening at some future time and it will have some shape and form and it will be more light and it will be more pleasure and more love This is exactly what you say imagining future state and ignoring the fist right in front of you I remember even one of the guys that did the finders course he says what he didn like about it was the fact that the guy who designed it was really pushing people to admit that they are already that I am already that.

And he would resist it with all his force. Of course I am not already that yet. Because if I was already that yet, I would have known it. How would you have known it? Oh, there would be more bliss, pleasure, light, whatever the conceptual image of it is. I was just thinking too that and then that's a strange way that the addiction could more naturally one could conceive and be kind of cured by being able to enjoy the feast in front of you because if the attachments and the addictions are out of some sense of emptiness, some sense of you know unworthiness, That is a brilliant point.

I didn't look at it this way. It's a brilliant point. Often, what you call addiction, when you have the sense of deficiency, is just the justification of your own sense of deficiency. The moment you feel whole and complete, a lot of those needs and urges drop away. And the same activity comes from completely different points. Like you know, you may enjoy the same activity without having a concept that this is destructive addiction. Oh, I think I have to deal with my addictions first before I could look at this stuff, Kat. But I was thinking of the Hensing Ming, you know, so about holding no preferences when you guys were talking.

You know, like that's the birth of it, the birth of separation, the birth of inadequacy, the birth of insufficiency, the birth of dissatisfaction, you know, heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. You know, when I hold a preference, like I want this girl to get it, you know, I want her to listen to what I'm saying so she doesn't die, you know. I have a preference there and then a belief in a doership that I have any control over that or that one state's preferable over the other. Yeah, what a beautiful example because you are coming with the example of trying to save someone's life and help someone.

And it is so natural and it's so heart-driven that of course you have preference for her to make it and not to kill herself, of course. But at the same time you can't hold on to it. For a moment you can appreciate to have it because if I were you I would totally appreciate it. If the preference of really heartwarming, benevolent, well-wishing to the other fellow human being comes up and I so prefer them to be well, I would absolutely love my love. Just love and appreciate that temporary preference with the understanding that of course is out of your hands. But yes, you're right, it is about holding the preferences.

The preferences will come anyway. They will come all the time. They will come even when you go to the cafe, whether you want a latte or cappuccino, the preference will come. But holding on to them, that's detrimental because that breeds disappointment. That's like having no preferences about having preferences. Yes. Because oftentimes I'm always doing focusing exercises, so okay, there's resistance there, even though the exercise was about having non-resistance, so then you've got to take it up a level and be non-resistant to the resistance. Thank you so much. Yes. This conversation has been really useful. It really just dawned on me that the pattern that to just they're just appearing it just happened so I'm grateful.

I was lost, I was resisting, I was resisting and identifying with the pattern and with the thought and wanting to change it and feeling of it. And just through this discussion there's been just a remembering that it's an appearance and that I can never be it, I cannot be it. Hello. Hi, Jamie. Hey. I'm just trying to work out how to use this thing. I don't know. Can you hear me? Yeah, you're doing right. Am I doing okay? Am I doing okay How you going Good how are you Good to see you Yeah really good Good to see your face I was just eating dinner so I just jumped in just finished a big spaghetti bowl maze Yes, so this is an experiment.

This is the first one. We did a little experiment on Thursday with Skype and Zoom. And they kind of look the same, but less people had the Skype ID. There are 17 of us right now. It seems to work. Hello. Hi. Hi. I haven't been to one of these meetings before, so hi. I listen to a lot of Tony Parsons and Jim Newman and I'm quite confused just because basically with the practices, the spiritual practices, the message I get is that they just confirm the me when actually there isn't a me in the first place. So they're completely pointless. So I guess I'm just and I am that as well.

I've read the book, well most of it, and I find that terribly confusing because I the I or the me energy is not, it's completely unreal. So how can you say I I Am That when there is no I in the first place. Good question. How can you say I Am That if there is no I in the first place? Well, no, there's no I, there's no I either. There can't be an I with anything. Sorry, I didn't quite get that. Everything is in the opposite. I am. And that is. Can everyone just put themselves on mute if they're not speaking because it's very hard to hear Bob.

Yeah, if more than one person is on mute, it creates the disturbance. Okay, now I'm on mute. Okay, you go. You go. About the I and the dot, they are words, they all are just a... Yeah. No I is true and no doubt is true either. They're just words really, they don't really mean anything do they? Yeah, they're pointers. Words are never the real. Map is not the territory. Map is not the territory. But they are trying to explain it. Yeah, they were sages who used silence. Raman Maharshi was sitting in silence, hardly ever anyone could squeeze a question out of him or answer to the question out of him.

And with a similar sort of an effect, 0.5% would actually sit through, whether they hear words or they do practice or they don't do practice or they read books or they don't read books. Who is speaking? Abul... Jen? Yes. I look who is on mute. Her name is Jen. Hello. Hi, Jen. Very nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. I just see that you put the question. This is the first meeting we do on this. Yes, yes, yes. Sorry, I think I didn't realise. Maybe the... Yes. I just bombarded with questions. That's okay because that's pretty much answered it anyway. Yeah, we're just learning.

Yeah. It is a good point, yes, because the whole thing is to stop believing in words. Stop believing that words are a thing. And that includes all the pointers. Words are just labels. Labels. We put on them. Because I guess we have no choice because that's our medium. Yes. And the funny thing is all the words are duality. There is no words that does not have a duality. That's right. So we are using dualistic language to point into something prior to the language, which is hopeless. But somehow I've seen, I've met probably about 100 people by now that over the last 45 years Bob kind of managed to successfully walk through it using words.

So even though it's hopeless, it somehow works. I think it works more of that energy, that resonance that goes between the words. The words of what? World words are vibration. And they must vibrate in the opposites. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, love. Watch your mind and see how it functions. So it's, you know, we, we, well, the me is duality, the knower, the seeker is duality. So it's, it's impossible. It's, you can't fathom nonduality because we are duality. So, yeah. At the same time that duality of me is just Maya, is illusion. It is only made of images. So it doesn't really exist. No.

I used to watch Tony Parker. I am a person and it used to make me so anxious. It doesn't anymore because I finally understand it. But he would say things like, it is utterly hopeless. And I would be, especially when I was really seeking, really trying hard. Yeah, that would make me so anxious. And now, yeah, I finally see the hilarity, the great cosmic joke in that one. And the fact that it's hopeless is the greatest hope. Because if there wasn't hopeless, if there was something for the individual to do, oh my gosh, the individual would throw itself and put all the effort to the end of the book.

An individual is a fiction. And if you pause a thought, then you can't fathom duality. Exactly, you don't even need to. It's just not there to fathom. Yeah. Yeah, I try to do my TM twice a day and I'm a bit at war really because on the one hand I can't stop listening to this message from a variety of different speakers, mainly like Tony Parsons and Jim Newman. I am a human. And then I sit down to do my practice and I just think this is utterly useless. It's just something that it's hard to grapple with sometimes. I feel like I may as well do it anyway, but I don't know.

Then I just think, well, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. That's the way. There's no story. If you see your body sitting, then you see your body sitting. Absolutely. The meditation is not the problem. The problem is when we have the story, the true meditation, I will achieve something. Meditation itself is harmless. Every action is harmless. Only the story, the idea that goes around it can be confusing. Absolutely. Yeah. So I just, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It's actually nice if there is an attraction, natural attraction towards silence and the body wants to sit and just kind of dive into that nothingness.

That's a beautiful attraction, that's a gift. And then people would say, ah yeah, but this is a practice, you should stop it. There is no you to stop it. So if it's happening, it's happening. We sometimes go around the blocks of Opget a little bit of an exercise or have a little bit of a cup of tea and we drop into silence, absolute silence, and it's wonderful without formal sitting or anything. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I think you're right. All the questions were more or less answered. I'm just looking through the chat now because I just discovered it. And they were more or less answered. Hello.

Yes. Does my face come up when I talk? It does. Is that how it works? Yes. I was just going to add something just to what that lady was saying before. I think the fact that I exist is undeniable. It's more a nature of looking into the nature of the I. Is the I limited and does it have any independent existence or is it just that presence? Or is it just that presence? I don't know. Sorry, you go. It can be a little bit confusing when you hear that there is no I, because that you exist is undeniable. I exist. And that's what can be confusing.

But we need to look into the nature of that I. What is, what do we mean when we say I? Is it the sense of existence that we exist? Or is it the story that's running in our head telling me what I am, that I'm this, I'm that? So it might be helpful maybe to look more into the nature of what we mean when we say I. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. That's a very good distinction. Jamie, I realise that I know of at least hundreds of people who take beyond the need for further help. And Bob was also saying on the beginning, I think you came later, Jen, when he was actually pointing out that there is Satchitananda, being consciousness bliss.

And you are not unaware and you are not non-existent. If you try not to be, you can't. So you are, but if you try not to exist, it's impossible. You are, the being is the only fact. It is the only thing that can ever be known. The here, I am, but yes, what is the I? Maybe there nothing there but the existence is still there The all I am is a sense of presence which translates as that of that thought How could you express yourself if you didn say I Am The I Am is not what you actually are, it's just a translation. And that sense of presence is the I Am-ness.

There's awareness of presence which translates as that sense. I Am, I See, I Hear, there is Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Touching, Smelling. I See can become a subject. I See the chairs become the objects. I Think can become the subject, the thinker. I Think this has become the object, the thought. So can there be a seer without seeing? Can there be a thinker without thinking? Can't be. So the seeming division is conceptual. The actual functioning is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking. I-N-G gives us something that's happening near me to see. You can't see 10 minutes ago, because that's gone beyond. The Seeing, but the Seeing, the Thinking is happening right in this humanity.

Put it like all, try and translate it. I Think. I'm going to try and unmute Sally because she's asking question, I can read the question. Sally is asking question here. Why does life make us forget who we are and create the illusion of self? I still try and unmute Sally because Sally you could just have a bad speaker or bad microphone that's why we can't hear you. Can you say something now? Sally? I can't see her. No we can't hear you. Yeah it must be your speaker. Can you hear me now? Oh yes now we can hear you. I took the earphones out. There you go.

Hold on, I have to turn my volume up. Hold on a tick. Would you like to answer the question? Why would life make us forget who we are and create all the illusion of self? Well, so as you learn words. Instead of investigating and saying that you're already that, we take on the conceptual belief that people have put upon you with the words. You're a little girl, you're Sally, you're this, that, and the other. Why? I would answer why not. Because if not for that sort of consciousness which creates the world using the language and the label, and this differentiating itself from the totality, there would be no conscious experience of the world.

And if not for falling asleep, there wouldn't be any experience of awakening. So that's what it is. We can have a story why, we can have five different stories why, but getting the story right is not going to really help, it's not going to do much with the question. But I do like it may sometimes silence the mind to know that, yeah, well, life presents itself this way In order to find itself and to find itself it has to lose itself first because there is no joy, there is no appreciation, there is no possibility. Like if you look at the animals, they are all enlightened.

They don't live in the future or past, they don't believe they have a little self or little me inside. The cat doesn't know that it is a cat. They live in a constant sat chitananda. But they don't really have conscious experience of being the way we have, because we lost it to the dream. So, waking up from the dream is only possible when you fall asleep first. But the ultimate answer is why it is the way it is? The ultimate answer is because it is the way it is. It is a mystery, you can't really grasp it. You can't say, ah, because God is evil.

Or you can't say, because, ah, yeah, it's a cosmic joke. Or you can't say it is for the learning experience or for whatever. Because they're all stories, they're all shallow, they're all very anthropomorphic. But I remember I had that question too, and it was in fact the only question I ever asked Bob because I was too shy to open my mouth when I was coming to the meetings. I was asking, oh my gosh, if the life, you know, the God is all love, why would that create fear and torture and suffering? That makes no sense. But Bob answered me, and I wasn't ready to hear it just yet, I heard it a little bit later, that duality is absolute necessity for the whole world to exist.

If it did not appear dualistically, it would have not appeared at all. If there was no fear and the absence of fear, no light and absence of light, no winter and the absence of winter, no day and the absence of day, there would be nothing. It has to be this way. If there was no self, there wouldn't be other. And there isn't. There is just an illusion of self and the other. But that just the magnificence of the play Like why anything exists at all There could have been nothing void zilts Why would that come into existence I am the creator I am the Self and put it into the cage of concepts and make it suffer.

But the Self is not created at all, it seems to be so. It's a dream, yes, it's a dream. Nothing ever happened. There is no self. Self hasn't been created. It only seems to be. There is existence, but there is no one who has the existence. There is being, but there is no I that is being. There is awareness of presence, but there is no one in particular who is aware of that presence. It seems to be, it feels this way, but that seeming to be or that feeling this way is just appearing sensation. The body is a little thing inside of me, it comes and goes, it is not there all the time.

When I wake up in the morning, I don't know which day of the week is there, I don't have that sense of reference. It's not there, so it can't be me, because I'm there, seeing it come and go, so it can't be me. Body comes and goes and changes also. Thoughts, feelings, emotions, everything that comes and goes is witnessed or is recognized or is consciously experienced by that that never comes and never goes. So there is something prior to that little self that seems to be there unfairly, brought by life. The good thing to actually look at this because it would probably bring the expansion that Tass was talking about on the beginning And it would bring a little bit more of a clarity towards the I or the self or the small self or anything, is to try and locate it.

Because that's impossible, but the whole attempt to locate something that never changes already blows your mind. And that's also the who am I question does the same job. Suddenly who is looking for who am I? Who wants to know who am I? And who is the I that wants to be known? And who is the I that is the knower? And that completely shuts the system down and drops you into silence. And when there is no thought, there is no problem. Like Tony was saying, if there is no thought, there is no duality. There is no even a need to have any questions or answers or anything.

Just what is. Nevertheless, keep asking that question because every time if you bring it up, something else may come up as an answer and it may resonate. I just wondered if I could ask a question around the sense of presence and I guess even though it's probably the doer speaking, you know, how to cultivate that in some respects. Sometimes I guess when I've had a busy day at work I find or whatever busy day or something I find I'm myself more distracted and I find it difficult to sort of really feel like I am one with with that and it just changes the sense of it changes and I get the sense that it's important to really really do that, I recognize as much as possible through the day sense of like you were saying Kat like you know if we really looked at it we don't always have the sense of I as this little me inside here that you know the operator or the manager does that make sense that that question yeah yeah exactly as you say Yes, if your heart is with it, that recognition will spontaneously come.

And every moment of recognition is the moment of celebration. And the more the heart is with it, the more of the moments of recognition. And yeah that it really That it There is nothing else to it It always that one present moment of now whether it is recognized or it is a little bit clouded it's always about that moment. There is no moment or place or future in which, oh, this is gonna be now constant or it's gonna be permanent. There's nothing constant or permanent. It's just that one moment at a time. And you do it. You have your heart in the right place and the recognition is already coming.

So yeah, just relax into it as much as you can because the more you kind of try to give yourself more of a regime to keep recognizing or keep remembering, the more tension comes into the picture. I remember that because I was very ambitious spiritually. My ambition wasn't anywhere else in the world, but regarding waking up, I was so ambitious. I was beating myself up, punishing myself for not doing enough, not being vigilant enough, not being alert enough. And that's just not the way. This is not the me putting in effort. The awakening is the absence of me putting an effort, absence of me putting or not putting an effort.

But the more relaxation, the more naturally the consciousness shines through. Yes, celebrating moments of recognition and just, and that's it, that's it. And letting go moments of non-recognition, letting go moments of confusion or going for a trip or getting loaded or tensed or in resistance. The moment you recognize, oh yeah, okay, I was in the story, forget about it, go on, don't even analyze, don't dwell there, don't go for another trip, punishing yourself for not being vigilant or alert or whatever, because that's not the way, that's more of another trip. I think that was Nisargadatta saying, effortless effort. When effort is required, it comes, but it's effortless, because it doesn't come from the place of struggle.

It doesn't come from the ambition of the individual or the me, of the imagined controller there. It just comes naturally. Anyone else anything? Because we're running over time. If there is no one having anything, we can see you in a couple of days. And if anyone is willing to drop five or ten dollars to PayPal, you're welcome too. Thank you both, it's been a really good experience with this Zoom, it's worked really well and yeah I reckon I'll be able to attend more often because of it, so thank you so much. Can you send through the instructions about leaving a donation? Yeah, there is on Bob's website www.sailorbobadamson.com, that's the official website.

There is a . And you just click on the button and . And PayPal is associated with Bob's email . But it is on the website. Only if easy. If it's easy, that will definitely help. That's what we got for Bob. If it's not easy, then yeah, of course. It's a different story when you're coming here. You can't look like that. Being at home is tough. But if it's easy, then welcome. Thanks Bob, thanks Kat. Thank you. Thanks Bob, thanks Kat. Thanks everyone, really good. Thanks Bob, thanks Kat. Thank you. See you next time. Cheers. Thank you. Loved it, cheers. I seem to go to sleep as much at home as I do at yours, but you know, get a lot out of it.

Thank you. Cheers. Cheers. Holding up the presents flag. An hour and a half of the presents flag. Don't forget. See you, Tony. Bye. Can you see me? Who's that? This is really strange. Hi, it's Jamie. Yeah, so yeah, you were just blind to us for the first bit. All right I was eating dinner. That's why I'm so hungry I'm gonna I'm gonna have to work out eating before 7.30. Nice to see ya. See ya Bob, see ya Kat. Love you. Love you too. I'll tune in again on Thursdays when I get used to this thing. Bye bye.