This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Hello. So just so you know, guys, Bob is hearing us. He is just around the corner and he has just had a nap, so he's not asleep anymore. OK, so we're going to start from our usual invitation. If there is anyone who would like to, who would enjoy. Contributing a little introduction just to really test yourself, check how you're sitting with the pointers. We don't want again any foreign concepts and foreign teachers. We want direct experience presented and the pointers that have been digested and understood from Bob's set of pointers because his message is enough, it's complete, there is nothing else that is required, there is no other concepts or teachings or anything really that is acquired and there is they are proved around the world that this is so so would anyone take up the challenge it's just an invitation it's not a push if no one's up for it That's perfectly fine.
Quiet. Okay, no worries. No worries. Okay, let's get into it. So, yeah, sorry. Go, go for it. I can't, I, unfortunately, I can't give a spill, but you probably don't want to talk about individual personal experience, but I was talking about immediately.But I'll just throw one thing out there just to... I think I've always had a problem with getting attached to thinking. And it's an habitual thing. Get up in the morning, slightly miserable. And then sort of fighting with it and thinking, oh, crikey, you know, you're meant to be a spirit, you know, on the spiritual search and all this thing. So you get in there and fight it, believing it's me and all this business.
And anyway, that's an interesting one is to see how that starts to fade, even though the thoughts don't seem to go away. There seems to be less involvement with it. But that's just... I hope I'm on the right track. So, but I mean, that's probably too early. You want somebody to give a spill. And unfortunately, I don't have the ability at the moment anyway. No worries. No, that's a perfect input. And yes, a bit too early. Let's put everyone on the same page. But this is really a good start. Am I on the right track? Is the I to be on any track at all?
Because what is Bob's message all about? Is that there is no self. There is just life unfolding through available pattern. So there is a body-mind machine that is already conditioned to prioritize the mind, to listen to the complaints, to believe the thoughts.to engage with the thoughts. And then that electricity or that light or that life is expressing through that body. And of course, it's doing whatever it has been conditioned to do, whatever it learned through imitation to do. So there's no one who is anywhere there, even if there is a very, very strong, persistent idea that there is a self. There really isn't one. If you look, it can't be found.
And of course, I totally understand what you say from the, you know, from the conventional language perspective. You cannot, you cannot be on the wrong track. You cannot get it wrong because really it is just life moving. Even if you find yourself in a cult, even if you find yourself in a prison cell or doing austerities or practices. Which would suggest that, oh, you completely got it wrong, you completely misguided, and you are completely off the track. There is, again, there is no you. There is life expressing through, going through an experience of prison or cult or anything. Starting from that, starting from that realization that What was it?
A quote from Desiderata that Bob often quotes. No doubt universe is unfolding as it should. No doubt your thinking is unfolding as it should. No doubt that...detachment from the thinking is unfolding as it should. Everything is just as it is. There is no right or wrong in the way things are. And that's actually a wonderful news because it takes away all sense of responsibility, of guilt, of doership. There is nothing you can ever get or do wrongly because the you that can, that feel that it can do or say or understand or get things wrongly, what is that you? That's just a bundle of memories.
Glued together by the energy of belief there is a belief that there is a person there like you know people who are hypochondriac and they believe that they have this or the other disease and they believe it so strongly that they manifest symptoms of course they don't manifest anything it's the life essence expressing through the belief in the disease in a hypochondriac and through the symptoms of expressing through the symptoms so this i this formation called i or imagined separate self is almost like a disease that has been contracted through whatever i mean it's an infectious disease contagious yeah And it's been assumed.and it's been believed into and it produced the symptoms.
And the symptom is the misery, the psychological suffering, the guilt, the shame, the remorse, the longing, the dreaming that there is something else to be had in the future, that there is somewhere else to be, someone else to be in the future. So those old predicaments are just the side effects of that hypochondria of I, of that belief that there is someone there who could get things wrong or who could be on the wrong track. If there is no one there, the universe is unfolding as it should. And that's beautiful. That's the wonderful news because... Now, what is left to do? It's just relax and enjoy the show, enjoy the ride, see how that universe is unfolding from that relaxed position of being presence, pure presence, pure conscious awareness or witnessing.
ink, that space-like awareness, whatever is unfolding within that space-like awareness is being cognized. And that cognizing capacity, without any limitation of the body or limitation of the brain or the mind, the pure capacity, utilizing the body and the brain and the mind, if you will.or even conceptualizing or dreaming the body and the mind, that capacity is what you are. That is what you can't, the only thing that you can actually find and know is the fact that you exist, is the fact that there is aliveness, that there is existence. Without naming it, labeling, it is just something that can't be denied. It's not even a thing.
It's not something really. But again, it can't be denied. The existence can't be denied. Without that sense of existence or sense of presence, nothing can be cognized or experienced or expressed. And this is the baseline. You are that existence. And without going to the mind for explanation or for a concept,You can actually directly, you actually cannot not directly know it right now. You cannot not know it. You know that you are. Whether it's the mind saying, yes, yes, I am, but I am inside the body or I am inside the brain or I am limited, poor, miserable human being. That's the thought. But that thought is only possible because you are.
In that existence that you are, the thought of the boundaries, the thought of a description arises. And you can see how that description is changing. How you can get up in the morning in a good mood and your description is, oh yeah, I'm fine, I'm going to be all right, I'm going to have a good day. And what is that I now that is fine, I'm going to have a good day? Because throughout the day, later on, you stub your toe or someone offends you. And that description is going to change. Description of what I am or who I am. Oh, I'm so silly. I'm so stupid.
Nobody respects me. Nobody loves me. Now that I is something different. The I which says I am disappointed or I am longing for the truth or I am limited is a different I than the I that says, oh, I have to run because I'm going to be late. The I that has to run is the body.The I that is longing is more of an emotional self. So which I is it? You can see how many different I's thoughts could define. But all of those I's borrow the sense of presence. From that field of knowing, field of pure existence. There is an existence and it almost feels as if that existence is putting on a mask.
Like Bob says, the persona creating a costume or persona over itself. I am not pure, non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. I am the person. I am a female person. I am Australian or Polish or British or whatever. And I had this childhood and this trauma and I'm aspiring to achieve that one or the other. Those things are all limitations bestowed upon that sense of presence, which without concepts doesn't have any costume. It doesn't have any mask, doesn't have any boundaries. Even if you want to just for a moment have a taste and see how the universe subsides when you close your eyes. See how the hearing is completely unlocated.
See how the sense of presence, the only thing that could be actually experienced about it is the fact that it is happening here.And now, you can't say how big or how small it is. You can't say that it is of a size of an aura, one meter from where? From where? There is no center. There is no boundaries. All those things are imposed by imagination, by mental pictures. You can see how the thought arises in that space and says, yes, but I am here in this body. I'm located here. I am not seeing what you are seeing. I'm not thinking what you are thinking. What are they again?
They are appearances in that presence. The space-like awareness, the open field of knowing, is luminous, is brilliant, and is here, and it is now. And now, in that space, the image arises, the mask, the costume, the concept, the idea, the world, all of it. It arises and it moves on. But by the habit of conceptualizing, by the habit of the mind, those ideas borrow the energy of belief. They inhabit through that aliveness. The idea becomes seemingly alive. The idea becomes believable. It feels like true, almost like, you know,When you are hypochondriac and you believe that you have the disease, that feels true. It's not a belief, it's true.
So it feels true that I'm human. I belong to the humanity. I belong to earth. I am whatever. Tribal or I am humanistic, you know, whatever the concept is. But without that concept or prior to that concept, or even when you look through having the bigger, a little bit of a bigger picture and include all the concepts. Include the concepts that you have when you are dreaming at night. Include the concepts that you had as a child. If all of those concepts are included, basically the processing, the hard drive will just stop.And now you will see them for what they are. Now you can't really believe in any of it because they're so self-contradictory.
They exclude one another. You can refer to your own experience, how often you felt big and small and stupid and smart and beautiful and ugly and strong and weak. All those things are just passing phenomena. How, once you see it, how can you ever believe it again? And those thoughts, those ideas will continually arise. But if they, that's the nature of phenomena is to arise, to arise and move on. But if they are seen through, they have nowhere to stick, nowhere to hang on to. They basically come and go, just like clouds on the sky. Like weather, changing weather. And now what doesn't change? They all arise, dreams at night, daydreams, fantasies, current thoughts, yesterday thoughts.
They have one thing in common. They all arise in that field of conscious awareness. That field is always there. The body arises in the field of conscious awareness and the body during the day.It's a different body than it is during the night when you have the dream body, when you sleep. And that dream body is climbing the tree or running from the villain. While the physical body is lying on bed. So you can see how everything arises in that field and naturally. What's the common denominator of all of those arising phenomenas? There is the knowing of it, the being knowing. There is the presence, and we can call it my presence or your presence, but it really is just presence.
It doesn't belong to anyone. Within that presence, everything happens. Everything is experienced and expressed. And that is what you are. That presence is what you are.And you know it right now. You know it directly without the thought. Of course, that could be obscured again when the thought arises and brings up the masks, the identities, the tasks, the traumas, the conditioning, the distractions, any mental activity. Are distractions and those distractions basically drive the attention away from that basic simple recognition of the only thing that is undeniable and real through every experience forever forever now because there isn't any other time than now but now is timeless now is eternalSo in that eternity of now, there is a direct experience and everyone right now is experiencing it directly, whether you recognize it or not.
Experiencing directly the cognizing presence, the alive, intelligent presence, aliveness, the radiance, luminous presence of life. You can see how you lose sight of it. When the yes but comes and the doubt is being acknowledged as real.And the comparison comes up. Comparison with what could be of what is being believed, a mental image that is being believed, bestowed by third party, by some sort of a descriptions, that there is a better state, there is a better way to be. In which I am one in cosmic union with the universe, experiencing bliss or ecstasy, and there are no thoughts and there are no angry feelings or whatever is the description.
There is often some idea, which is a sales pitch for the search. When the search starts because the suffering is unbearable and there is really the last bit of hope that there is a way out of the suffering, there may not be that big spiritual overload, overlay of that enchanting, awakening or enlightened state. But very often that's the case. Spiritual search starts because there is a promise that there is something to be got, something to achieve, something to become, that there is a better way of being. And there is some sort of a supreme state. But it is a natural state. It is a natural, ordinary awareness with which everything is known and cognized.without which there is nothing, there can't be anything.
Expecting it to be something supreme and superior and flashy and overlooking that natural state. That's the tragedy. That's a joke, really. It's tragedy when you see the suffering, but it's a cosmic joke when you see where it actually is. You know, that what you're seeking has never ever been hidden, has never been taken away, has never been unaccessible or unavailable. It's just that at some point, understanding it conceptually and having that understanding which you could probably well explain and transmit elsewhere, but not having walked the talk. It's more frustrating and causes more suffering than anything. So at this point,If there is any calling for the heart to step in and fall in love with the truth, with the basics of the truth of your own existence, that's probably where that calling or that resonation is.
So did you want to say something, Nirguna? Yes, yes, I would like to reply about the search. I cannot go in with you when you say the search and searching is your own thing. It is not about... Search is all what there is. There is no you, there is no me, there is no body, there is nothing to find. I don't get where did you come with the idea that I say the search is an wrong thing. I don't think any of us, Bob or anyone here, has the concept that right or wrong is an objective reality in it. No, it's nothing right or wrong, but thinking makes it so.
That's the only wrong thing, believing a thought. And even that is not wrong by the individual who doesn't exist. There is no one who can get anything wrong. Yes. There is no one there. The searching is the calling.Same thing. Searching is the calling. And when we see that, we see that everything will be resolved because it is only searching, it is only calling. Nothing else exists. That's energy, that's essence. Who search for itself, who look for itself. And the calling, without searching, nobody would be here in this place. We are everyone here because of the call, because of the search. And it is most important thing that is those energy.
Sailor Bob's style of pointing is to bring the attention to the way mind gives undue importance to concepts. So you bring up the concept that, oh, you must do this or the other. Oh, this is super important. This is crucial. And that is how the simplicity of that beautiful natural state, ordinary awareness is lost. However, staying with again with the simplicity and clarity of the way Bob shows it. Nothing that the mind has to say, nothing is important. Yes, I'm speaking about the energy of awareness.about the energy that emanates from our essence, from our source, we can distinguish spiritual seeking and the... The searching. The search is a movement of energy fundamentally.
That is all the search. That is what I say. That is what I say. Absolutely. Absolutely, that's what I'm saying. And those energy, those seeking has brought us together here in this space because of that, because it wants to be seen, to be discovered. To be there. You are creating the idea of cause and effect, that this is one singular cause that created that effect. According, again, to the way message is presented, and I think there is no way of presenting it any better. Is that there is no cause and effect relationship. There is the complete interdependence of infinite amount of factors coinciding that made us here in that space.
That is because it really is one, one appearing as infinite amount of different factors, different patterns, different forms. So it isn't really that just
Because of the search we are together. Yet we could also say because of the earth that we are born. Because of the air we are breathing. It is really just one essence. And cause and effect is always a trap. It's a mystery finding out that, oh, yeah, OK, in the probability of 17.5 percent, it is because of that and 12 percent of that and 0.01 of that. Yes, but there really is no singular cause and effect. Who is searching? Who is searching?
Who is searching? Can you find an independent entity who does the search? I'm speaking about essence, about the truth. Is the essence somehow deficient and it needs to seek? No, but the energy, recalling, seeking, is of the same nature. Everything is of the same nature. Wouldn't it be the simplest way maybe to just boil it down that life is lifing? Yes. Because then we don't bring in any concepts. Then what you mean with life is lifing, you see it, I probably, you may be thinking about, you know, this word, this feeling ofMumukshutwa, this longing home, this that we somehow in our human aware in our human being maybe that there's somewhere inside of us a knowing a longing to become to be to realize this natural state to come back or to to to remove all the layers that we have moved on ever since conception.
If I may say to me, it's almost like even at from conception the layers began to build you know first the layers built as the body then the layers built as all the concepts and all the thoughts and and even in all that there was still this the natural state was still there as the backdrop, as, you know, as a space, as there's always been there, I mean. So it's just life, life thing. And life is life thing us here to this soon call. Life's just life does here, you know? I don't know. So.What I've always heard Bob say so many times, let's think, I mean, or let me paraphrase Bob, paraphrase Bob to Jenny-ish, is that the less I think, the happier I am, or the freer I am, Like, what the fuck?
There's nothing wrong right now if I don't think about it, you know? And I think that is really... That one liner really boils down what Bob has wanted to convey. Because we, in this human experience, we are really experts on complicating things. I don't know if that made any sense or helped anyone or if it was just me rambling on. I can't see any reactions, but I'm going to see if I can find a dot to turn off my mic without driving into the next car. Can you mute me, Kat? I can't mute myself right now. Okay, I'll find the way to mute you. And that was beautiful.
That was beautiful. That's exactly it. Yes, there's no need to differentiate and move the story and disagree with everyone. We don't really even know what anyone means.Anyway, Nick has the hand up and I think it's time for Nick. Okay, hi everybody. Hey. Just kind of an observation that's, After hearing, for example, at speed, there's a natural desire, or should I say there's a natural of a space of just silence because it's just crystal clear. There's nothing else to say. You know, when Kat asked at the beginning, anybody would like to do the speed or anything? I'm thinking, well, do I want to say something just to hear myself speak?
Because I was looking at how the mind wants to somehow engage to keep holding on to an identity. So I'm listening to Kat and that's it. It was all, that's it. But it's interesting how the mind wants to hold on to the sense of identity. I want to say something. When in reality, sometimes instead of adding to it, it's just distraction because the point was clear, just silence. It's kind of like. If the pointer is so clear, technically speaking, the purpose would be that eventually nobody would have to show up to hear it again because it's already clear. You see, it's the opposite. It's not like.It's not like doing this to get more people to hear.
It's the opposite. It's that if you get it, perfect, fine, goodbye, that's it. But the mind loves to get engaged because that is how hold on to a sense of identity. But I got something to say. Look, I know something. You're not saying this right or something. But in reality, it's very simple. It's just simply what is. That's all in those stories. So changing the subject, I would just like to see if I'm going to add something. I would like to add a basically how I do the investigation just to see if it can serve. That's it. It's not important, but I mean, it's just something that may if it serves or so.
And for me, the way it helped me with the investigation, not that it's important or that it's not needed or anything like that. But again, I don't know, for some reason it's being said, I'm just going with the flow. When I started doing, when I said, when I, you know, that I'm referring to, okay, we don't know the language. When I started doing investigation, it was difficult for me to investigate who is this I, because there's still a sense of I that's thinking, okay, who is this I? You know, how do I know that I am or I am not? And. The way it started happening for me started to say, okay, who am I?
Okay. I am the body. I am this person. This is who I am. Okay. Well, that seems very logical, seems very convincing. Well, if I am this body, I should be in charge of it.I mean, it's obvious. If I am the body, I should be in charge of it. Well, let's explore, see if it's true. Am I in charge of the breathing of it? Am I really the one who breathed it? Well, no, it's not true. Okay, it's not. Am I the one making the heart beat? Because if I am in charge of the body, if I am the body, I have to be in charge of it.
You know and it was obvious that something is in charge of the functioning of this body okay well then what is that something what is that something and little by little it became crystal clear that something is in charge of this And this I who's thinking that I am the body is a thought. You see? And then little by little, it's just deconstructing, you know, until the realization for no one, but again, it's a limitation of language. The realization is. Life is. There's nothing to say. If I were to argue with anyone here, any conceptual thing, which is no wrong with that, it's just what happened, you know, but who's the one arguing?
For what reason? Why am I going to get to where am I really trying to clarify something or am I actually trying to reinforce the belief that there's an I who thinks that knows something? You see, it's very subtle.See? In the end, when the pointer is understood and it's clear, end of story. That's it. Silence. Just watch. Observe life happening. It's very simple. Because otherwise, it can get into a mind game. And that's exactly what the mind wants. Even when it thinks that it's trying to explain something, what the mind really wants is, listen to me. I exist. I am somebody. I know something. And that's when everything, the simplicity.
Of the pointer, it gets completely diluted. You see? And yes, we can go in circles forever saying, okay, but if this is what's happening, it's because the universe wanted to happen. Yeah, that's fine. It's perfectly okay. But if I really want to have the direct experience of what liberation is pointing to, maybe, Maybe listen, observe the natural impulses and remember back to the pointers. Go back to the pointer because the pointer is not for me to explain it to you. There's no you. The pointer is to finally come to the realization that life is, you see. And that's what I see more and more. It's interesting because there's nothing else to say, literally.
I mean, after listening to Kat speaking, I think that it just landed it so beautifully that all that there was needed is just quiet.Even for the rest of the hour and a half. You know? And that's why, again, I have to be conscious that if I want to say something, okay, let's see who's the one who wants to say something. Let's just look at that. You know? Because before I even know it, in the conceptualization, I find myself again in the trap. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with something being said or not. That's perfectly fine, you know. But it's very beautiful to observe how the pointers, at least in my case, quote unquote, they point to silence.
Because once it's clear, it's understood. Oh, great. It's just then just relax into it. Just watch life happen, life, life thing, life being, and then see different points of view, difference and everything. But you don't need to engage. I see it. See it clearly, you see. And the beautiful thing, for example, is that an encounter like this. It gives me an opportunity to see how the mind is still engaged, how I find myself feeling impatient. Oh, great. Look, the energy is coming through and the mind wants to conceptualize. So it's a beautiful opportunity to investigate and see, but not to try to tell you what I know.
It's to really see myself. Oh, look, this is. Oh, okay. Whoa, whoa. Look at that. Look how the mind is engaging. It's trying to conceptualize. Look at the impatience coming up. Look at all the...things, whatever. So that hopefully, you know, then I love how Kat answers to questions in a way that at least the way I perceive it, very, very kind of loving, kind and everything like that. And I see myself going like, I mean, I would like to say a couple of things, you know, but I want to be like Kat. I want to be like that because I know that part of the conditioning of this personality tends to be very, very, sometimes very confronting.
I'm aware of that. But again, the beautiful thing that Kat was. Saying at the beginning that, yeah, that's so, okay, that's just the way it is. As of this moment, it could change right now because you never know. But it is interesting watching. I love watching me, how I see when I'm reacting, but not so that I can tell, no, well, let me tell my point of view so they can show you. No, it's to see, oh, wait a minute, look how I'm getting caught in the thing. You know, and that's the beauty that that's the gift that this kind of encounter offers me, not the information.
The information is already there. I mean, what's the point? Why am I going to go ahead and say the same thing? I'm at least got it. You know, it's point out. It's just to look how the sense of identity wants to keep holding on to it, you know, because in the end. Life is. It is, you know.So that I don't know, there's nothing to say really. That's just what he's pointing to. So anyway, that's what it felt through this imagined character, whatever the case may be, conscious is talking to itself through the different parts. And I don't know, that's what it says. And end of the whatever I had to say, I don't know, for whatever it was said, that was had to be said.
It was beautiful. It was beautiful. And this is really it. This is the subtle pointing, pointing that, and I love it. I couldn't say it any better in a million years. And I was actually kind of feeling that maybe I'm coming across a little bit like a tigress being too rough with the defending Bob's style and language. So I'm actually glad to hear that feedback. Because obviously I'm biased. But Yvonne says, silence sings, Nick, like a guitar. And Yvonne says, whole cosmos self-concept, believe in politics, economics and medicine. And Yvonne also says, beautiful comparison with hypochondriac. Yes, and also in regards to pointers, I love, Nick, how you brought in, and this is such an essence, it's a subtle essence of teachings where I was just inviting to really look through your heart what is really, really longed for.
Is it? To be right.Or is it to actually see where the pointer is pointing? And what Nick was bringing up, you know, if you can actually see the silence behind the pointer, oh, just join with it. Just melt into it. But if it's not... Well, okay, maybe another pointer will do it. But stepping up and saying, I disagree, I disagree, this is wrong, this is wrong. Well, you know, pointer might not resonate. That's fine. It may resonate with someone else. Don't kill it for them. The pointers generally are concepts. No pointer is true. So we can say, you know, I can bring up the deck of cards and we have 88 pointers there.
And every single one I could just for the heck of it pull apart and prove wrong. Very easily because they are words, because they are, this is language, this is dualistic. All of those concepts, mental images, has its opposite. So really, it isn't about agreeing with the pointer, seeing pointer, disagreeing, arguing with the pointer, having a better point. It's not a competition of which pointer. It really is letting them take you beyond the need for the help, beyond any need for any pointer. If the pointer touches your heart, melt into it. If it doesn't,ignore it maybe the next one will do it and i see there was someone um here uh the end says i found found this in a comment and shared it yesterday with a friend this from ramana that nick just reminded me of whatever is destined not to happen will not happen try as you may whatever is destined to happen will happen do what you may to prevent it this is certain the best course therefore is to remain silent yeah that is beautiful not that we believe in destiny but this is exactly the pointer that is pointing to silence not to the concept of of destiny or what was predestined or what wasn't this is not a pointer about whether the time is real or there is future or supreme being it is a pointer to forget about fighting with life and just let it flow let it unfold as it does but that miraculousness of existence that is falling loving it's falling in love with that already present right here right now mystery of radiance luminous presence that is that is there underneath all that appears and disappears for that andAnd they say, you know, there is a popular spiritual myth that there are two paths, so-called paths, even though we say there is no path, there is direct realization of what is always and forever present.
But they say there is a way of understanding Ujjainana, a way of devotion of bhakti. But there is no way really, because it is realization of what's already here, moment to moment, not yesterday, not in a month time, not when I will contemplate another hundred hours, but right here, right now. And with that, comes the heart when you realize that life is all there is is behind every petal on the rose behind every scent every fragrance every story every galaxy every microbe every drop of water everything that you see around and the emptiness that it is made of you see you can't help but love with all of your heart that incredible mystery that incredible miracle And that is inevitable, whether you practice bhakti or not, realization comes with that mind-blowing openness, with that great, wow, you cannot not love it with all of your heart, even though there is no you, but that essence, that love in action.just shows up and fills up the space of experiencing.
But in the, again, spiritual jargon, there is an idea that if there is no recognition, then practice. Practice metta meditation, practice bhakti, practice surrender, practice this, which there is still a person practicing something or seek or pray or invite that presence, that God to find you or surrender. And it is, of course, in a way, a beautiful way for the life to experience and express love. And from the realization standpoint, absolutely nothing wrong. The idea, though, comes that there is an I, me doing it, while it is life. It is life. Life creates bhakti. Life creates devotion. Life creates all the paths. It is the way life dances.
Life is lifing. There is no self doing it. The idea, and I was taught that by my guru as well before I met Bob, that if the recognition didn't land, then at least, at least, at least, practice bhakti, at least you'll be in love. At least you will not be as miserable. You will experience some joy and some pleasure. And also what goes with the picture, that sense of pleasure and that sense of love and surrender.is really intense, is intense emotionally, intense energetically. It rewires the brain. It creates the addiction. It creates the sense of deprivation when that sense of surrender is inaccessible. And that's perfectly fine for life to experience.
But if there is a sense that this is me, and now I'm being deprived, I'm being in love one moment, and I'm being in disgrace in another moment, the suffering is immense. And again, if there is a doership is completely recognized as just an illusory pattern of narrating, of commentary, life is creating the urge and the commentary says, this is I, I want this, I desire that, I will go there and do that. But it is really always and forever life, then there is no sense of guilt. There is not even a sense of deprivation or disappointment. And even if there is, that disappointment and deprivation is not personal.
It is life experiencing what it wants. And even in those intense feelings, there is no psychological suffering because the life recognizes itself. As the presence in which all that happens. So those beautiful and exciting and attractive ideas of, you know, Jnana Bhakti,or path of surrender and devotion or path of understanding those are all again spiritual concepts that cloud over that beautiful silence underneath that relaxed heart essence in which the mind is just a little ripple on the ocean it's not the reality i see the couple of comments jonas has to go love and greetings to silo bob and all of you and all the best and yvonne says jesus in the gospel of thomas i am the light is love are all things i am all from me all things come forth split piece of wood i am there leave the stone and you will find me there i love that quote yes yes it is is it is the essence of everything that's beautifully said but again i'm very very biased and i'm gonna bring up the way bob beautifully said in in one liner it is one essence experiencing expressing and appearing as everything yes split the piece of wood and that's the presence there that's the one essence that's the cognizing emptiness or the pure field of potentiality a shiva non-existence emptiness emptiness pregnant not empty emptiness but pregnant with with potentialityfor everything and nothing with the potential for everything and michael says at least is the worst recommendation thank you cut that was very clear yeah i agree i agree that is yes especially that it puts you back to the trap of believing that you are the choice maker, you are the doer.
Now, okay, you're going to go on that path and do those things, meaning you will start again taking credit. Even though there might be, you know, the intensity, pleasure, pain, pleasure, deprivation, and it might be attractive. And it is wonderful from life's perspective to have, you know, a couple of extreme experiences in all that unified field of totality.As usually what happens in the groups of belief-based systems, you know, I'm going to go and save you. You do as I do. do this is going to be good for you so all let's let's do this let's practice that let's become that and again that's that's just more confusion because that's more taking credit more reassuring and reinforcing the idea that there is a self which has free will and which has a power while in another way of Jesus is pointing to that power is omnipotence, is the one power, is the one presence appearing in the piece of wood and then all the other things that was mentioned there, but it's still the same presence.
And Bob would say, this is Yvonne, Bob would say, he's not talking about himself, but the sense of presence. Exactly. Also, another way Bob puts it, we say everything is that. Split the wood. The wood is that. Break the stone and and the stone is that and the body is that and the galaxy is that and the and the chair is that also he says there is a being of a chair chair is being piece of wood is being a stone is being a body is being a galaxy is being that is omnipresence Omni being. Everything is being. And then we say,Separate that being with labels.
This is being me. This is being you. This is being that. This is being that. But it is all one being. Experiencing and expressing as everything. And seeing that, realizing that, yes, you just dive into that silence. And what is there to do? Just be a relaxed presence. And Lisa Lotte says, thank you, God. You are so crystal clear. Thank you for... Sticking to Bob's wonderfully uncomplicated and accurate style. Thank you. And thank you for your kindness and seeing the loving energy behind the words. Oh, and I got three people hand up to that. Thank you. Yes, it is. It doesn't need to be improved, hey, Bob's message.
It doesn't. It contains everything. It really exhausted the topic. Nothing needs to be added. It's absolute. Nothing needs to be taken away. Nothing needs to be improved upon. And in so many ways. He brings the message. He drives it back home. Omnipresence, all being, omniscience, all knowing, all knowing. Through the knowing of Jehovah Witness, through the knowing of Antivaxa or political, any, any,Knowing is the same knowing, just labeled, separated in the dream, expressing and experiencing in so many ways. An omnipotence. No space for taking any credit for anything. There's no one there doing anything. And then what could ever be wrong? All right. We are witnessing a miracle of unfolding every moment, fresh and new.
It has never been like this before. It will never be like this again. Just now, full of experiencing in all the fields that this human pattern allows. The seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the thinking. And the thinking, if we approach the thinking the same way as we approach the hearing, it's so much easier not to take credit for it. I disagree. This is not right. This is my thought. I think I'm right. You're wrong. If you actually see that those thoughts arise in the field of hearing, it may be not completely auditory because thoughts are kind of like a silent hearing. Bob sometimes says it's like a subtle, subtle vibration, like a soundless sound.Jenny says, beautifully spoken, can't happy if that is a bit like.
Thank you. Yeah, I find it that, you know, thought arises and it is known. I didn't think it. It was somehow cognized, not exactly heard. Like, you know, when Bob is speaking, it is heard. And then when I am speaking or this body is speaking, it is also heard. But when no word is spoken, but the thought arises, it is also heard in some way. Not much different. To anything else it is just what arises like what arises in the field of hearing what arises in the field of thinking is the same and if you actually see how the thinking is alike the narrative is being heard the commentary is being heard then it is so easy to not see it as personal, to detach from it.to just be even curious what's my next thought gonna be what's the next piece of narrative is gonna be and when the next piece of narrative is comparison or judgment is still not mine is still not personal then oh wow okay as it is left as it is there's no need to judge the judgment Because it's not personal.
I don't have to feel in any way diminished by the fact that the mind could have been conditioned to always disagree or argue because I'm not this mind. And I have nothing to do with that. Environment created this mind to respond in this way. And I'm the learning of it. I'm a discovering of it. I am a space like awareness, which is actually openly curious about, oh, how is this machine going to respond? And then this machine goes through whatever, the car accident or the sickness of the loved one. And, oh, how is it going to take this one? Hmm, let's find out. And that field of curiosity, there is...
There is a neutrality to it, but there is also a subtle joy to it, joy coming from freedom and detachment, from whatever the mindhas to say, whether it is socially approved or disapproved. And that is the freedom that is on offer right now. If it happens occasionally and at other occasions it is being followed, well, that is also cognized. The fact that the engagement with the mind happens, that's also cognized. Like what Stephen was saying on the beginning that, you know, it happens less and less and for shorter and shorter time. And it is being on the right track. But who is on the track?
But, you know, it's a good enough description. Yes, that is, you know, in that human experience for the dream character. It is a good enough description. The dream character is still, even when the realization comes that there is no one there driving that vehicle, no one there thinking thoughts and driving the body and beating the heart and digesting the food, there is no one there doing any of it. The vehicle is still appearing the dreaming is still going on now it's more like um it is i think one of the guys that bob was in contact with at some point leo yes leo hartung yes so he was very very influenced by bob's teaching so we you could almost likeI read that book.
Bob is a lot of Bob in that book everywhere. So instead of awakening from the dream, which happens when the body drops dead and the energy is no longer animating it, there is awakening to the dream possible in the dream, within the dream, when you realize that the dream is being dreamt. And this is also... Leo is Dutch, maybe, could be, Leo Harton could be, who knows? Yeah, I've read his book in English, I'm not sure. I found it on Bob's shelf because there was so much of Bob in there, so he got sent a copy by the guy.awakening to the dream where you know the what is awakening who is awakening is there anyone who is awakened no it is awakening awakening there is a knowing of dreaming and there is another beautiful quote that bob often brings from his dear friend and mentor in his You are dreaming a dream called life.
Stop looking for a way out. Dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you love one part and not the other. Love all of it or none of it. And that's it. The rest will be done for you. And of course, he's using you because he's speaking to a dream character. But he's not speaking to the dream character. He is speaking past through the dream character, right to that I am, that I am, to that one essence and reminding him, hello, hello. Stop worrying about the dream. The dream called life. Let it dream. Let it be dreamt. This is it. Don't worry about it.
Don't try to wake up from it. That's impossible anyway. The dreaming is what is. That is the expression. You realize that there is an attachment to some parts and not the others. And that causes resistance. And that causes the identity to come into the picture and fight. And try to hold on to the pleasure and avoid pain and identification with that.pattern is the suffering. Realizing that dreaming is not the problem. The problem is that idea that there is a me that could wake up. If there is no me, who could ever wake up? Who could ever fall asleep? Realization that the dreaming is going on.
Awakening to the dream. Not I am awake and you are not. No, there is no I. There's no one to awaken. The dreaming is self-realized. It keeps going on. And that's not a problem. The body does what it is until it's, again, this was another Nisargadatta quote, the body will take care of itself until its destiny is exhausted. That's what he had to say when people ask him whether he considers quit smoking.It wasn't really that big of a deal. Whether you go there or do this, or whether you go to the ashram or to the monastery, or whether you drink or whether you don't. Of course, you know, for the dream character, it may be more comfortable to learn how to learn a couple of languages or learn how to have some skills in life.
But from the life's perspective, it doesn't matter. Life is leaving you as itself right now, exactly as it was, even if that includes the suffering.Get out of the way. And then you will see us live that there is nothing wrong anymore. And Tracy, hey. Hello, everyone. I've got a couple of things I want to share. I have set my alarm on my phone with a recording of Bob's voice saying, Don't refuse to be what you're not. And don't refuse to be what you are. And don't pretend to be what you're not. And that wakes me up now every single morning. And the other thing I wanted to tell you all is this.
I don't know what's happened to Tracy. I just don't know because it's so freaky, fascinating and wonderful. And I'm still kind of going, is this what's going on here? Because I've been listening to Bob for a really long time. I've been reading this Agadatta for a very long time. And at the moment, so as an example, twice last week, I had to speak at a different kind of a meeting. I don't mind. Like, I'm a recovering addict and alcoholic and I'm clean and sober now. And I had to share at these 12 step meetings. And I didn't mention Bob's name, but I said. I've got this friend in Australia who always says to me, what's wrong with right?now if you don't think about it.
And when I say that to people, it shuts them up. They start laughing and they go, oh yeah, what's wrong with right now? Wait, what do you mean I can stop thinking or I don't have to attach to those thoughts? And it's like a little elixir. It really, because, you know, addicts tend to think, overthink, overthink. Everything is a drama. And I was like that most of my life. And the last couple of months, it really like I watch the thoughts now and they're actually quite amusing, even the ones that are really ugly and really scary. And I've shared this with you, Kat and Bob on one to one meetings.
And now I'm starting to I think I was watching a recording of Bob speaking in 2019, teaching someone how to talking about how to stabilize. In that sense of presence and watching these thoughts arising like energy, just pieces of energy just flying around in my space. And it's totally shocking to me that Very little, even the stuff I would normally back in the day think, oh, my God, this is going to kill me. Now it's just like, OK, there's another thought coming and everything becomes quite amusing. And I really.really feel that the simplicity of that one line, what's wrong with right now, if you don't think about it, is so powerful.
And the ordinariness of it all. I think that there's another part where Bob talks about all the different levels of awakening. And right at the bottom is the ordinary sense of awakening. I'm paraphrasing now because I can't remember the exact quote, but that's what I'm experiencing. It's not some mystical, magical feeling. And I also got an awful lot from the way Bob describes Sat Chit Ananda. It's existence, consciousness and loving to be, because for many years I thought that bliss meant ecstatic joy, kind of like when you take pills. And that's not what it is. Now it's just, yeah, I'm loving to be and I am here.
And I just think it's miraculous for me. Anyway, I wanted to share that with everyone. Thank you.It is beautiful. It's such a joy to hear you. My goodness. And yes, look, it is such a potential for life, having that, you know, that clarity and that passion in your sharing to really inspire those. Nick was saying, I'm recovering human being, recovering from being a human to inspire. We actually have, and I love that story. There is a lady who was Bob's first follower. We were laughing with her lately because she's hanging around for like 40, whatever, almost eight years. And she was the Sangha of one because she was only one.
She was following Bob. She came to him and she says, I love what you have and I want what you got. And she was a recovering alcoholic. And we occasionally, not lately, but occasionally, we show up on AA meetings on Bob's birthday anniversaries. And I can't tell you how many people I could recognize Bob's voice speaking through their sponsor, Lena, having that clarity put out in the world and having the joy because very often in the recovery from addiction, as again, I know from other people, you know, early recovery for the first 10 years, people are still suicidal.And the suicide rate after 10 years of sobriety is still high.
There is a level of dysfunction, misery, which is super high. And those touched by the Sangha of One and a few other ladies who later on, and men as well, who later on came and formed the group around Bob. And they were initially from those circles and they spread that light. Those are people who are beyond need for help and they are beyond the high rate of suicide because it is such a wonderful place to bring the light to the darkness. And in these rooms, there is a lot of pain. So wonderful to have you with your mental clarity and heart and passion to just put it out there in the world.
And thank you, Tracy. It says, Stephen, and I could see, oh my goodness, I could see Hunt up for a moment, a moment ago. Who was it? That was Amin. Are you still there, Amin? There you are. Hey.Yeah, hi. You hear me well? Yeah. You hear me? You, we do. Okay, hi everyone. Yeah. I just had an impulse to share, but then after you talked, it just faded out. But yeah, it was this energy just sharing. This clarity of Nick when he said about who is in charge, is there someone in charge of this body? And obviously no, obviously no. So yeah, just This recognition here is very relaxing, very...What remains is this silence, this void.
knowing, cognizing emptiness, as Bob said, and whatever is experienced, Yeah, it's only that. It's only that.And... And to settle in that, to just relax a bit more, a bit more, and then the recognition comes that everything is that. Everything. The table, the chair here, the plants, the trees.Yeah, here comes the silence and here comes the... Only this space that we are. Yeah. And I love this direct way of pointing things that Bob had shared and you, Kat, and everyone here.Simple, simple, direct, simple, no. No need to complicate things. No need to... Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. That's just what wants to be shared.Beautiful, beautiful.
I love that highlight too. Nobody's in charge in the body. That's always worthy of highlighting. That's such a simple way of bringing back the mystery. We don't even fully know how the body works. We don't really even have theories and we have simulations and we have models. But, you know, who really knows how the hair grow? Is quite mysterious and the whole universe is just that interactive, interdependent, infinite amount of aspects dancing and playing together. It's mind-blowing, isn't it? Jenny, hi. I'm still here at the vet's watching my dog who gets sedated so that the vet can examine him. And the experience again, there's no wonder that we sometimes feel that this reality is real, you know, when life happens to us, when we do different things, and when we see somebody be ill or an animal to be sedated.
But then it's so good to remember that it's, it's, It's just happening.And to at least watch the stories about it, you know. And now they are coming in again. So I got to leave. Thank you for a beautiful. Bye. Okay, we have a couple of minutes. Anyone would like to say the last word? Lots of love to Jenny from Yvonne. And we have thanks Tracy from Stephen. And I think we are up to date on Primali's thank you card. And thank you again. Thank you, everyone. And have a wonderful weekend.