One essence expressing here. Sailor Bob and group inquiry into nonduality 27 Oct 2024

Nadi, Julia, Rossi, Michael, Mike, Eddie, Carl, Jack, Oli, Josu, Isa, Zora, Daniel, Dane, Alwim, Mitra. And here we have Bob. Morning everyone. I know what I got to say this morning. The strangest thing happened. When I woke up, I couldn't speak. I'll get this one just in case. My voice had disappeared altogether. Didn't know what to do, but the boss wouldn't let it go to waste. I'm here, what the talk will be, who knows and who cares. What we talk about is nothing new. That's what you'll see in all the ancient texts if you look into them closely. Anybody hear me? It's very soft. It is a bit soft.

Why don't you do it here? The ear side, then. Yes. You'll have to get the whip out, won't you? What did I just say? Try and speak up as much as you can. If you can't, well, we'll just have to have absolute silence. What was the last thing you said? It's nothing new. Nothing new. Nothing new? Nothing new. Anything new? Well, that's a fact. Because everything already is. And what's that called in all the ancient scriptures? That which is. Is non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence-awareness. Just this, nothing else. And we've all got this idea we are this separate entity. I said, this is no bloody good, I can't hear myself talk.

This separate entity. An individual. But it's not. And that's the mistake we've made. We've learnt these words and taken the word to be the real. But you look into the word, is the word the real? When you investigate it, you'll see it's not. And that's another thing they point out. The false cannot stand up to investigation. So all these erroneous or false concepts we have are not what we really are. Am I this body? Am I this mind? And you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to look at that, you see. You call it my body, my mind. Who's the me or the my you're relating to then?

Is it the body's body or the body's mind? It's not. They are just concepts, words that we've learnt come up And translates into the thought I am. And that's the great mantra. I am that. Just have a look at that. Because we've taken to be the body we say I am this person. I am this individual. I am this body, mind. But then again, is it, am I this body? No, it's my body. Who is the me or the my that the body belongs to? And you realise it's just a mental concept, a word we've picked up on it along the way. How many words were you born with?

And you realise you weren't born with any words. It didn't have any words to you a couple of years old. When your parents fussing around you tell you your little Johnny or your little Jane or whatever name they've got for you. And you learn the words I am, the sense of presence. So you see the sense of presence translates as the thought I am. And that I am, we have many different concepts and labels for, which have all been picked up along the way. You were not, there was nobody that was born with any word. So how can you really say I was born And what was born when you look into it Was it the sense of presence the knowing that you are So the word is not the real.

As I say, you can't drink the word water. You can't swim in it, you won't drown in it. You can't cook with the word fire or heat yourself with it. Now what's this word I or me? Just a concept we've learned. And they tell us again in the ancient text that the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. And they describe this nonduality one without a second as existence, consciousness, bliss, or being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone who is not being right now, you know you are being. Anyone who is not conscious or unaware, and you know that I am not unaware, and anyone not happy to be.

None of you want to be dead right now. You want to be. So you already are that. Sat Shetad And. And the name and form that expresses us are words or concepts. We take it on. Forward. And this, they tell us it's perfect. It's absolute. Or the great perfection. If it's perfect, what can you add to the perfect? You can't add anything at all to it. It wouldn't be perfect. And what can you take away from it? There's nothing you can take away from it. It wouldn't be perfect. So you must be that. And isn't that the great mantra? I am that. And don't you initially and already know that, because it isn't just to say that's the chair I'm sitting in.

That's the space in the room. That's the room itself. That's the tree. That's the flower. That's the mountain. You realise that everything is that, which we put concepts and meaning into the words. To be something other than what I really am. So, that little bit of investigation and you realize you are not that concept or word. And they tell you the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It's awareness without any concept. And is there anyone here who is unaware right now? You really know. I am aware. So, and what's the I Am? The I Am is the sense of presence. It's not the thought or the word I Am.

It's that sense of presence of beingness. Another word they express it as being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone who is not being, you know, I am being, I am conscious, I am not unaware. So you are already that. And it's the search of self that becomes the problem. The belief that I am not the thought or the idea or the word I take myself to be. I am not that sense of presence. It's the sense of presence which translates as the thought, I am. But the thought or the word is not the reality. So, from that point of view, is there anyone here who is unaware right now?

And you must recognise it. No, I'm not unaware. I am that presence-awareness. I am that pure being. And that's another way they put it, being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone who's not being right now, you say, no, I'm being. You know you are that being and you know there is a knowing of that being and there is a love of being that. So you already are that. The search itself has become the problem Because you can take it to believe the concept or the word I am The Buddha called it a cognising emptiness. An emptiness that has the capacity of cognising or knowing. And he made the statement that emptiness is form.

Pointing out that all this manifestation is empty-formed. Emptiness is form. And he turned it around the other way and said form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So it's all that absolute presence-awareness or pure intelligence energy. All the vibrating patterns, shapes and forms. So, if you are not the form, what can you be? Well, we've taken ourselves to be this presence-awareness. But is there anybody in this room who is unaware right now? You say, no, I am aware. So you already know that. And the thing is to drop the sense or concept of being separate and see that separation is not the reality. And live from the presence-awareness, the beingness, the knowingness and the loving-to-be, the absolute.

And that's not hard to do when you get the eyesight of it and have a look. But how did this belief in the person come about? How many words were you born with? You realise you weren't born with any words. And you didn't pick up words till you were a couple of years old. That you were functioning and living prior to the word. So you were before the word. And I'd taken a word to me and it believed to be so. I am Bill or Bob or Jane or whatever label has been put on me by my parents. I've taken that to be real. And now I've lost sight of my true nature and believe I am this person.

I am this separate entity. But I am, when you look at it, is just a sense of presence. The absolute. The knowing that you are. Somebody asks you who you are, you'll say I am Bob or Jack or Bill, whatever your name is. It won't say I am the absolute, I am the reality, because that's lost in the description or the patterning and forming of the words. But that is the actuality. And we pointed out before, that's the great mantra, I am that Absolute. Now if you recognise you are the Absolute, who can be superior to you? Who can be inferior to you? And what would you want from anybody else?

You realise as that Absolute you are actually everything there is. Looking in this manifestation you'll see it's all the one essence, the one life or the one intelligent energy that patterns, shapes and forms, appears and expresses as Everything and the no-thing also. There is actually no separation in nonduality. It's the idea or concept of being a separate entity, an individual, that is the cause of all our problems. For it's only you and me that can be unhappy. It's only you and me that can be fearless or hateful or jealous or envy. Me, this belief in the me, is the cause of all my psychological suffering.

And the effects of that cause are fear, anger, depression, jealousy, envy, all these psychological concepts we have, are the belief in the cause, me. And investigating that, you'll see that I Am is a sense of presence. It's not what you are at all. And the word we use is not the real is not the thing Have a look at that Take this word water Can you drink the word Thank you It's all vibrating, dualistically. Shakespeare told you a couple of thousand years ago that there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. When you look at it, that's the way it is. How do you think?

It's either good, it's bad, good, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating. It's the word that's dividing everything. That comes about with me and the other. Dual. There's no duality in nonduality. So things need to be recognised as they are, not as they appear to be. I think that's what they call this manifestation, that which appears to be. And appearance means it seems to be so. It's not as it is. It's what seems to be. And you see that they call it a phenomenal manifestation. All this manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. Look up your dictionary and then look up the word phenomenal. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be.

So all this manifestation is appearance. It's only seemingly so. And you look into that and realise that what you seem to be so is not how it is. And you get the taste of how it is, that you are that absolute, you are that reality. And then the bondage of self, where's it going to attach to? Who or what? And look at me, that's all the problem is. What they cause, cause and effect. The cause of everything, every problem you've ever had or ever likely to have is the belief in me. I am unhappiness, I am sad, I am no good, I am this, I am that.

But without the thought, what is there? You look into it and realize that this me is the cause and ask yourself a simple question. Can there be an effect if it's not related to a cause? Now cause and effect, what do they call that? They call that karma in the scriptures. Karma, it's all happening to me and I am the cause. But what happens if you investigate and seeing that the concept, me, is only a word, it's only an idea, it's only a thought, and ask yourself the simple question, can there be enough thought if it's not related to me? If I'm not related to this conceptual image B, you realise there can't be a thought.

So without the cause, there cannot be the effect. So cause and effect is dualism and we're talking about nonduality. The cause, the effectless, the timeless, the spaceless, beyond where, when, how or why, the actual presence-awareness. And realize that is what I am. And there's no concept or thought that I can relate to that will fit it. For it's only me that can be fearful, it's only me that can be unhappy, only me that can be dressed up, that me is the cause of all this psychological suffering. And Wai Wai Wai told you that a couple of thousand years ago. He says, why are you unhappy?

Because everything you say, everything you think and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. When you look into that and see it's true. There is no personal self. And what is person? Doesn't person come from persona, a Latin word meaning the mask, pointing out, well, there's a belief in this conceptual image of being the person. You're believing in you are this conceptual image. Me is the cause of all your psychological problems. And the effects are me. So break it all down and seeing that me is a concept. Without a concept you cannot negate your beingness. And so, see, with the concept there will always be this problem.

For it's only this me that can be unhappy. It's only this me that can be fearful or anxious or depressed. That me is the cause and the effects are the belief in that cause. Look into that and see for yourself. Nobody can ever do it for you. Because when you look into it, this nondual, one essence, one manifesting is all there is. But it has the capacity of appearing and expressing as everything. And you are that capacity. You are that purely. Look into that and see. I'm not going to talk much more because there's nothing I can say. But there are people here who have recognised and see what I'm saying.

They'll carry on and point to it. And there are others here who are just looking into this stuff. Some of the Dharmas I spoke with shared some of their experiences. I had to pick them up and think about it. It goes on and it can only be passed on when it's recognised as the actual Dharmas. So we ask you to get into it yourself if you've got any questions, any doubts. Tell us your version and see where it goes from there. Away you go. Translationata So what Bob says already that you are already that field of consciousness. You may have a concept or belief that you are something else or something less, but that's just a thought.

When that thought is not there, well the inevitable direct experience of presence is here. So this is the part when we invite people to just make sure I'm not sitting on the air I invite people to share about it because the good way of reinforcing that recognition is to just bring up whatever resonates. Bob makes it as simple as it gets, so if anything touches your heart and it kind of causes like ringing a bell feeling, You can feel that this is worthy of highlighting because it is a recognition of what's already there. So any phrase or any statement or any paragraph of Bob's set of reminders, if you want to just highlight or bring up, that's lovely.

We don't usually bring our personal stuff or history unless there is an example or other teachers and what they said and what it meant. It is really just digging into the direct experience of this moment and seeing what obscures that obvious realization of being present and alive right now. There may be contextual issues that may be obscuring it. We may just recognize them, see them, bring them up, see they are just a thought. Without that thought they're not there, so we back in that recognition. And there is a lot of people like Bob said who have complete recognition or who have long enough and clear enough insight that their life has dramatically improved And there is everyone who knows that they are There is no one superior, no one inferior, there is no guru worshipping, there is no surrender to the guru or expecting that someone else will tell you how to live your life.

Life is leaving you, recognizing that that life is already beating your heart and breathing your lungs and giving you the next thought which you don't know what it is going to be. Life will make it clear once it arises. It's really all that needs to be done. But we assist each other with sharing whatever helps the recognition, whatever brings us back to that direct experience and away from the narrative, from the chatter. That is always about what is not happening. So we have another mic and anyone? Lovely. Yeah, I thought what I heard Bob say was that, you know, the search is the problem. And that can be, I found that that can be a real stumbling block.

The two things you would go parallel with that is the belief, all the beliefs we have, you know, seeing through those and then that the search itself is the problem because that's the tendency of our mind to search for something. And I saw throughout the week how this I am-ness, it's not a static thing to become obviously, I suppose Bob you could also say that presence is life itself and it's not a static thing. I used to get hung up on this sort of state to be in all the time but it's like a constant livingness which is everything that's happening in the moment all together all at once.

Every kind of moment, you know, moment implies time, but just to use words, it's just that, always changing and it's like not even moving. You couldn't even say it was moving, so I was looking at that because the word move is also just a concept. It just is what's happening and the great thing is it's just always unfolding, even unfolding. I am not sure what that is. It is never static. I suppose you can always just say what these things are or what is not. The actuality, as you keep reminding us, can never be described. But it is not a static thing at all. It is life which cannot be described.

And that the search itself is the problem is an important concept to see through. Beautiful. Anything else? I just wanted to comment on what you said earlier today. I wanted to just bring it out for everyone to hear. You want to say it again? When you couldn't speak? Well, it was great. It was perfect. I said, Bob was in the kitchen and he was describing how he couldn't talk this morning and he said it was, what did he say it was, it was unbelievable, like he couldn't, the words were, the thoughts were there, Bob said, but the words, because he couldn't, his voice was not coming out, he couldn't articulate the thoughts.

And so I said, oh well, that's it, isn't it, Bob? You know, that's... Non-conceptual awareness. Non-conceptual awareness. That's closer than the words. What resonated here was, Bob, when you were talking about being consciousness, loving to be, bliss absolute. Yeah, that seems to be it. And then when there's awareness of that, there's an appearance. There's appearances, there's seeming bodies and interaction of words and thoughts and discussions There's some beautiful pointing to that in the film we saw about this character, Bob Last week the filmmakers were very aware of this appearance which is really just an appearance of light and the camera was continually going from sharp focus where the person seems real and the appearance is real and then quickly going out of focus blurring it.

As soon as that happens the forms disappear. So there's a constant reminder of this form that we take to be real is really empty, emptiness. And as soon as that disappears, well, into a blurred, I think the photographers call it bokeh, out of focus background. The form is gone, it's disappeared, it's empty. That was lovely to see the way they use light to play on the reality behind the forms and the apparent things happening. When it was all just a play of light, a play going on. These are some of the Lila, the play of reality. Beautiful. Beautiful. And this is really a great highlight of the way, you know, life is living and using that attention to go sometimes it is focused, sometimes it is blurred, sometimes there are five senses wide open, unfixated.

And then the fixations required. You can see the same in the natural world amongst the animals. And I love what Catherine reminded, you know, the search is what obscures it. The assumption, believed in assumption that there is something else to be had, something else to find, that I have to become something else than what I am. That's just a thought, that's just an idea. But that idea when it is believed, it completely, seemingly obscures that fact that attention moves of its own. When it's required to be relaxed, when it's required to be focused, whatever needs to according to the condition of the body will come into the light.

For some people the attention travels to a football game or politics and it is perfectly fine because life does it of itself. There is nothing wrong. And for some people that attention goes into obsessing about enlightenment or something else. But if that, you know, you step back and you see that this is life-lifing. Just the same way the attention focus and the vision focuses whatever calls for that attention or that vision. And nobody does it. It's just life-lifing, it's doing itself. Then even the search, when it arises, because of course now it can be misconstrued, I am the one who searches the problem, so I have to stop it.

No! You can't do that. There is no you to stop it. If the idea of personal self is superimposed imagination, if there is just life, nobody is beating your heart, nobody is thinking your thoughts. It's just life expressing through the channel of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, thinking. There is no one there. So there is no one to start, there is no one to stop. The search is what is happening. But in that field of cognizing emptiness, it could be cognized and it is cognized. So realizing that the search, the tendency, the urge to become or to find or to get something is just another urge, the same urge of being thirsty and wanting a water.

Realizing that this is what appears in the field of consciousness. It's not what I'm doing or what I'm getting wrong. It's just what's happening. That brings a relaxation suddenly, even spiritual search and the obsession becomes impersonal, it's just what's happening. And then if that desire or that longing or that love for the truth is showing up persistently, well that's where attention will naturally follow. And that wherever it is gonna get itself, it's again not up to anyone. And what often happens, it gets you to the place like this. And Bob often asks, you know, what brought you here? Ah, you know, I took a tram.

No, no, no, that wasn't the question. Ah, yeah, but I've been on the search for twenty years. That wasn't a question either. It is the whole universe just getting into that particular setting in which the body inevitably moves and follows the energy and finds itself here. It's absolute mystery. It can't be explained by simple cause and effect, because of that or because of that. And recognizing, seeing that life like Jesus was saying, recognize thee in all thy way. Seeing that same energy like what Ros was saying, you know, that just, that field, that lila playing. And now, rather than being a psychological suffering and a hell of a nightmare, It becomes like wow divine game Did you want to No no Mitra had something to say Well, more of a question.

Good. Did you want to say this? No, no, I just wanted to say. Oops, sorry. Thank you. So, how can I put it? That way. That way. Okay. So, well, I'm trying to find in my own experience that I am that field of awareness. So when I go within, it's absolutely clear that there is no one there. It's just every day, every day I'm confirming this to myself that I cannot find a person there. It's just a live space. That's all I can find in my experience. So, and then, now I wonder what it's kind of felt within my body. However, when I sit and meditate and I'm still, it just all dissolves.

So I can't really say it limits to the skin, but a little bit around it, like definitely not further than for example Navi over there. I mean, I don't feel it. And I just wondered that, for example, if I hear your voice, your voice feels like outside me even though I hear it within that space. But anyway, I'm just saying, like, for example, if I refer to sound, I'm hearing sound, for example, sound of traffic over there. How can I experience that within me? How can you not? How can you not? I mean, see how very quickly that translating machinery here introduces the idea of space and time and places, creates the image of reality in which Tram is outside.

You are sitting, experiencing Tram or Bob speaking, and if you close your eyes, The concept of outside may not even arise, but the mind will introduce it as a mental image. You're looking at the mental image. So it is really a little bit about seeing, like being even more attentive into what is first, what arises first, you know? Is it the sense of hearing or is it the location of what is heard and where in the space? You are the hearing and then the mind comes and says I am here and the sound is there. This is the mind and it is wonderful. It's a wonderful instrument.

You can just enjoy it to the fullest, but you know that this is just a translation. You have a little bit too much alcohol or psychedelic or whatever else happens and that will be all scrambled. You will have different sensation. You will have sounds may have colors. So can you actually trust that machinery which is not even consistent in what it projects? So push it aside and go to the direct experience. And direct experience without conceptualizing it into space-time, you know, like dimension, direct experience is here. Now can you say that here means in this location but not in that location? That's already conceptualizing, creating, imagining boundaries.

Yeah, I can see that. I can see it this way as well that hearing is happening. Like, so, yes, so I can say that there is only, if there is only hearing, yeah, so there is no person in there. Yeah. Everything happens within that field of hearing. Your narrative, that maybe is a mental space. That hearer is a thought. You know, I'm just trying to... Even I've had that insight like couple of years ago. There is only hearing, there is no hearer. Because the birds sang and I just said, Oh well, there's only hearing, there is no hearer. I can see it that way. But I just need to reconfirm all this.

Also about seeing, about seeing the other day I just sat and I just looked at the candle and then it just occurred to me that, I mean, how weird is seeing anyway, like, I mean, how weird it is. I can't work it out. It just puzzled me. First of all, we are born and if you look at it scientifically, the way that light comes into our, I don't know what it's called in English, the back of the mind, whatever it's called. It is reflected on retina and everything. The psychological part should be seen upside down, right? And it is initially. It is, yeah, and my brain reinterprets that and says basically, I mean, it's weird because from the first day we are born, our brain just basically tells you to see everything upside down.

That interpretation is added, which is really weird, you know, but anyway. And then I just wonder anyway, like, when I was looking at that candle or anything, exactly that feeling of, I mean, what's my reasoning for being here and the candle being there? First of all, I am seeing only inside my mind, correct? I am not really seeing anything outside. You are the whole field. So whatever you are experiencing, you are the field. Everything that is happening within that field of gaze is happening within you. You are not a limited image or a body. Body is just a binocular or the glass or the microphone.

It is just a vehicle that can translate what is seen. But you are the field of seeing, field of hearing. Everything is always within you. There is nothing outside of you. But I want to prove that to myself. Stop thinking. Stop thinking. Just for a moment. Just for a moment. I was just gonna say when you have a dream at night you experience all the sounds from outside of you you experience all the sights outside of you but not really because it's in your head it's in the dream so it's all an interpretation but it still feels separate like in the dream it feels the same way as it does now like I don't feel like I'm the couch I don't think we're ever gonna have that well maybe I don't know maybe with drugs you can have that I am everything and feel like you are the couch.

But in reality the experience, it just stays the same. And it's the same thing in a dream. You still experience the whole dream within. It's the interpretation of the mind, like you said with the retina, the switching. It's just the interpretation of whatever is, I don't know, the atoms in the air and how they move. They happen to look like cat, you know what I mean? Beautiful. There is nothing to prove here because it is just this. The experience is not going to change. It is all still within you though. Think of the world as coming into you. It's what you receive. Yeah, and interpret it within there.

Beautiful, beautiful. That's why Bob says you are already that. You don't have to wait for any experience or any particular state In which something is different than right now. You can recognize right now. That's right, but you know, the reason I think for all my feelings and you know like, I think I have emotional attachment to feeling separate. Like, I can see it as you say, I can look at that and I say what's my reasoning for being here or that being there. I am seeing inside my mind, so here and there really lose its meaning. I can see that. But because I have lots of beliefs that have been so conditioned heavily, I am trying to buy the experience, break that belief, and that's why I am asking all these questions.

The belief is just the same though, it's just another thing you are experiencing. It's just another object. Just recognize. The thoughts of what is the meaning, it is another object of experience. It is another thing that you're witnessing. You know, I don't want to also add any more belief because it doesn't help I understand. Like if I accept what you say without referring to my own experience, it won't be my truth, you know, that's that's where I'm getting. So I see what you're saying, but it's not my experience. Test it, don't accept anything, that's a wonderful attitude, don't be a believer. Yeah, because it doesn't work, it just will be another belief, I mean, what it's gonna, it's not gonna make me feel free.

That's why we keep hammering, see what's the truth, when for a moment you pause that interpretation, when for one single moment you stop buying into the meaning-making machine, The mind is a program, like in your telephone, you ask chat GPT to read you something, or Siri, or whatever, and it will be narrating whatever is happening. So that mind, direct experience is singular, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, you don't have to prove it to yourself, you know it, you've seen it, you've been there, even when you were just born, always. And the mind come on board on the more difficult days, it will be probably more persistent.

On the easier days, it will be less. You can see how that narrative comes and does the job of interpreting everything for you and creating mental image of what is happening. Now what is the meaning of me being here Blah blah blah Direct experience is one thing and that narrative is another thing If you can actually see how quickly the narrative comes on board and rewrites the whole story for you instead of just singular experiencing, now I am here, I am Mitra, I am not good enough, and there is something else and other people feel it and I don't, this is all blah, blah, blah.

Experience, just see if you can pause that blah blah blah for a moment and now, without believing anything or anyone, see what's truly happening. That will be yours. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. And you actually effectively did it, you just said a few times that when you look inside you can't find the self. And then the mind comes, oh shit, there it is again. But then you look again and you can't find. Keep looking until perhaps that realization will maybe come into front rather than in the background. Now it seems to be hidden, but it is hidden in a plain view. It's never not here.

Bob has this shortcut, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Just for a split second. All right. Or Julia has the method which, you know, letting go of whatever arises and then eyes closed, open, and these moments are becoming more and more prominent, more, you know, frequent, until it isn't an experience or state that you occasionally get to, but it is recognized as this is the base, this is the natural state, and obscuration comes and hide it. But you have to have enough of direct experience. Keep repeating. Thank you so much. No, that's beautiful. And Cole wanted to say something. I'll give you another one before...

Yeah, this is a bit historical now, but Mitra, I just wanted to say this. You know, you look at reality and you say, yes, I can see this really clearly. But, and then the mind comes in and it challenges reality. Okay, why not challenge what the mind says? The mind is not, the mind is not, obviously it's not reliable. It gets so much wrong. And it gets, when we're dealing with these sorts of things, the mind comes in, it says, oh well, I can hear the traffic noise, it's way out there. But, you know, that's the mind. You do not know where the traffic noise is.

You can hear it, but you have not a clue where it is. And yet the mind says it's a long way away. You know? So the mind does this all the time. It gives us a false... It's all story. It gives a false idea of this and it stops us from really seeing it clearly. So just challenge the mind and see whether, which is right, reality? You know, how many years have I got? I have no clue how many years I've got. In my present experience I do not know, but everybody will say too, and that's the mind. So try to keep the mind out of it and just relax and just be.

Beautiful. Sorry, was this on? Go on. Me go? Me go. The mind is in a way our greatest tool but it's also we get addicted to it, that's the thing. And so we're always trying to work it out through mind. And letting go of mind to direct experience is a movement into heart knowing. And that's just a completely different perception of... You start going into reality. The other is interpretive reality. And while we're called in interpretation, that's always measuring, always judging, always... You know, but we need that for survival. We need that, you know, that's important. But to know ourselves, and to know the nature of living and love, We have to let go of the mind and that's a movement into heart knowing.

Yeah. Yeah, lovely. Great reminder. Thank you. Yeah, I was just thinking, sort of, like I'm venturing into language now and I just keep noticing how language just skews everything. Like, even if, like Mitra was doing, we try to describe What's happening? We're still using the personal pronoun. I this, and it happens in here, and I then, and you, and I. And you have to be very careful because are you still using the same I that you shouldn't be using? Anyway if I reflect on my own experience I think one misconception that I had was that the duality somehow is going to disappear or you have to get rid of it When in fact the duality is what consciousness is doing.

You know, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's what it is. It's part of it. I mean it's one of the key things that consciousness or cognizing emptiness does. The I just had the sense you don't have to do anything. This is what it is. For me that was a moment. There is a book, one of books that was edited by Gilbert, it's a transcription of Bob's talk. One essence appearing, experiencing and expressing as everything. So it is really one in its essence, but it is the infinity or the totality of everything in the way it appears. And absolutely, thank you for bringing it up, there is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong in the way the duality plays out.

There is no other way for that Source Essence or that one Essence or the basic space or the emptiness to experience and express itself in any other way than through creating this whole dance of forms to be able to reflect itself as something seemingly other. So it is really to be celebrated this whole beauty and richness of life. It can, even though it has to be in a place of opposite. There has to be pain and pleasure. Because if there was no pain and pleasure, there would be no sensing. There has to be day and night, otherwise there would be nothing, really. All the colors, all the black and white, and hot and cold, and up and down, it has to be this way.

And the tendency, and yes, you highlight it brilliantly too, the tendency of the mind is to always follow, chase the pleasure and avoid pain naturally. Because it is very, very simple binary programming that pleasure won't kill you and the pain it might. And that organism, that life, that pattern is needed for the experience and expression. So it naturally is equipped in that Sat Chit Ananda being, knowing, loving to be, loving to be appearing as that survival instinct, as that craving pleasure and avoiding pain. And of course because it's a very very simple sort of a binary piece of software, it goes per shape. Alcohol gets you a little bit of pleasure and you become dead beat, like Bob's personal story.

He's been through, going through a depth of alcoholism, he's got 64 years of sobriety right now. But if not for that extreme unhappiness and darkness, well, there wouldn't be a light, there wouldn't be a possibility. So even that experience as being separate or limited, being a person, is necessary to know the freedom from it. So it's brilliant the way it appears. Suffering, physical suffering, pain is inevitable in life because it's part of that duality. It can't be, otherwise it would be in a pleasure. If there was no pain, pleasure wouldn't be known, couldn't be known. Because everything in that appearance, in that manifested world is only known from the background of its opposite.

But suffering, psychological suffering, resistance to pleasure, that comes from the narrative mind. And recognizing that this narrative mind is only an advisor, it's not a master, it's only a piece of the narrative of commentary. It's not the truth. It's not something to be obeyed blindly and fall for. That brings a relief which is only known from its opposite, again, those who suffered enough. And then it often happens in a blast, like you said, you can tell it was a moment, where that suffering lifts. But for a lot of people that suffering doesn't lift in one instant blast. It is like peeling of the onion and the lies are dropping away one after another.

And it's an old discussion of the instant versus gradual, which is again another way of conceptualizing and including the brain and the mind and the time into a picture. There is only and ever this moment beautiful alive vibrant moment of now And right now can I see what experienced directly and what narrated And now if anyone wants to ask who can see who cares Is it seen, is it known, is it clear? And this is the invitation. Moment to moment finding that place of just merging with life really. And even that is wrongly said because there is no one to merge, there is no one who is separate.

It's really just dropping the idea of separation. It's just disbelieving, disengaging the attention from the idea of separation. It's relaxing, relaxing out of that wrong concept and finding yourself in a place you never left, without the concept. There is nothing that has ever happened. There is no past trauma, there is no conditioning. And the body will still behave as it has been conditioned, but without the concept of it, there is no suffering included. And we have couple of comments here, just a quick… Oh yeah, wonderful, yeah, you go first. Just to expand on what the lady over there shared, I noticed the word empty a lot and I would like to share that since I was brought up with more in the Buddhist tradition, the way I believe Buddha expressed it is that it's a state of bliss.

That nonduality in fact is a state of bliss. That it is a state of being at one with everything, therefore a fullness, a completeness. And in that state, we are creative beings. We are only limited by imagination. And I have a personal mantra, which is we are either creating or we're consuming. We live in a society in a virtual reality in which we are very much encouraged to consume. And when we're consuming, we are more prone to that state of emptiness because post consumption, we will inevitably come to a place of emptiness. Because when we're not creating, when we're not actually in that state of bliss, then We naturally feel a sense of emptiness which need to be filled and which is actually a full state.

And I believe that is what nonduality is. Because the contrast comes from the flow state where things need to be constantly moving and letting go of. So the yoga mantra of never give up, which is never giving up on the idea that we can all be whole and always let go. Because by letting go, and currently I just had to move house and I had to put all my things into storage, and I saw it as an opportunity to actually let go of a lot of things which hold meaning for me, but really it has no meaning. Really, you find out, I mean, if you want to prove something to yourself, we all get there in the end.

None of us get to stay in the virtual reality forever. I mean, you know, someone like Brian Johnson, who's spent millions of dollars trying to live forever, is attempting, you know, to not have to go down that path. But reality is, no one's achieved it so far from what we know, I suppose, in history. So this constant state of renewal including our bodies and the human being itself. So I personally believe that we as beings are also in a renewal state when we get downloaded. So I just wanted to share that I've been thinking about how is it possible, and I believe it is, To wake up each morning as a newborn, to not have any preconceived notions as to what's possible and what's not possible.

I mean, we've all observed babies just exploring in the state of wonder at everything. When we can see through that newborn's eyes, I think it's, I feel it's very possible to be easily in the state of bliss, and I've certainly experienced it. So, and I've also experienced a huge contrast of darkness itself. And I would say that rather than trying to get rid of it, it's a beauty in itself. I am very happy to understand, to feel this profound that we are in this reality. However, I have also noticed that a lot of people share with me what they think my reality is, what their reality is.

But I constantly amuse myself, you know, every single day, wow, that's their reality, that's my reality, right? And maybe my reality is also very scary for them at times. So it's a constant source of amusement. It's my own little game of blissful state. So I just wanted to share that. Yeah, anyway. Beautiful. Yeah, Bob. What came up? Did you want to say something? The Buddha called it cognizing emptiness. He said the whole thing is empty. And he made the statement that emptiness is form. And the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So we're cognizing emptiness all the time, though it's appearing to be formed.

But the forms are all empty. It's all the one essence. Nothing other than that. No matter which word patterns, it all seems to be. Beautiful. Yeah. And just coming back to Mitra, I just, what kept coming up for me was the questioner. You know, for a long time when I came to speak to Bob, I always had a lot of questions. I was trying to figure it out in the mind, not that there is any mind, figure it out in the usual way, the habitual way that the duality pairs of opposites work. I was trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out.

I had all these fantastic pointers. Who is the questioner? It's just the memory, it's just the me, it's just a response to the me. The me can only live in the memory, etc., etc. I was listening and nodding and then all of a sudden I didn't have any questions. No more questions. Just one day I woke up and there was no questions. I just didn't have any more questions. And so everything I'd been told was true. Every pointer that had been given to me was true. There is no questioner. There is only oneness. And that the narration, as Kat so rightly said, comes in and has a big story about everything, and separates everything and tries to figure it out.

That's its nature. It's always got a big once upon a time about everything. And then all of a sudden it doesn't happen anymore. Why not? No, seriously. The question doesn't come up anymore. You know, I never did anything. I never did anything. Because if I did anything, I'd be still going round and round in my mind, or not the mind, in the memory trying to figure everything out. You know, but I don't have any more buts, only the one I'm sitting on. Beautiful. And I have here from Catherine and James, Nisargadatta points out clearly that consciousness is our only capital. There is only one consciousness and without it there is no one to see or say anything.

Consciousness is prior to the I AM. The If you were to have the constant orgasm or ecstasy for longer than the fuses here could handle, the body drops dead. And apparently the near-death experiences are very, very often very similar to a serotonin shock, sort of a death type. So the bliss, as a subtle way Bob is translating in the Hindu scripture Sat Chit Ananda, being consciousness bliss, Being, knowing and stillness. Being, knowing and loving to be. It is a subtle joy of being but not in a way of experiencing intense pleasure which is the opposite to pain. Any experience that comes and goes is just a phenomena.

There is a basic space which is that pure essence of consciousness In that there is ecstasy and there is no ecstasy There is orgasm there is an ordeal or displeasure or pain All of these are the Those things are coming and going. And the body will always be wired to chase pleasure. That's why we get addicted to chocolate or whatever, or shopping, or whatever the distraction is, and whatever the impact it has on diminishing that subjective sense of suffering or incompleteness. But if you really look deep, is there anyone there who actually is incomplete? And if you see that there is no one there, it's just what's happening, it's just the current experience.

So the existential angst, if it is any, you know, I'm not good enough, or they don't like me, or they don't love me, or whatever the concept is that causes the body to clench and the heart to melt, and the sweating palms, and maybe stress in the back, or maybe short, shallow breaths, whatever is the sensation appearing, And whatever the thought is behind that sensation, this is just a passing phenomena. And that passing phenomena is only possible because of that subtle Sat Chit Ananda being consciousness bliss, the joy of living in which it can be experienced. And then from that perspective, it's not personal. So if it is there, okay, this is what is there right now.

But it's not personal. It is calling for attention. Maybe there is a feeling of a knot in the gut or something, a lump in the throat. It calls the attention. If the attention, like you were saying, is a curious attention, and you see with that amazement, well, again, that doesn't cause the suffering. And it dissolves, because naturally everything in nature, all the energy flows in an ergonomic way, from the high to low, from finding its level, just evening itself. So if there is a deficiency and call for attention, the attention is delivered, the deficiency is evened up, like a river, like a water in nature.

That's the healing. So it's just discovering the content is secondary, but knowing that this content, whatever the content is, can only be there because there is a consciousness. You are the consciousness, you are the field of life, awareness, radiance. And within that field everything is constantly changing. Like Bob is having this beautiful metaphor of seeing. Seeing is happening, you wake up in the morning and the seeing is there, it's already fully present. Yes, for the first couple of weeks it may be upside down, but we don't even... the recorder wasn't working, so the memory isn't even there. Because it's the fine-tuning instrument memorizing, creating those.

The neural networks weren't ready to record it. So seeing is happening. Early in the morning you wake up and the content of seeing is different. It's a bedroom or wherever you're sleeping. And then an hour later the content of seeing is the same, the capacity or the field of seeing is the same. The content is different. Maybe it's a breakfast or maybe it's a morning walk, whatever it is. So we are actually prioritizing recognition of that field. And the content, constantly changing content, is amazing. It's totally to be appreciated. That's how life finds itself in an infinite amount of expressions and reflections of itself. It's totally to be appreciated.

But it's not to be unconditionally believed as anything more than just passing phenomena. And just giving that, what you say Bob, giving credit where credit is due. And I see you have something to... please. Yeah, second go. Just, you know, just really on the subject of the way that the sense of things being on the outside, that sense is very tenacious, like it seems like a fact. I think that one thing I've noticed is that as Western people we're kind of up against a lot of concepts which are quite different from those of nonduality and other traditions. And one of them is the idea that the senses are not the mind.

So you've got the mind and then you've got the senses. So what we tend to think is that the information we get through the senses is somehow primary. It's before the mind. So we see, oh, the world looks outside. So we tend to think that's the way things are working. So we see that things look outside. I Am That Ramana Maharshi I Nisargad tathagata presence Maha presence But actually in the Eastern traditions the senses are also mind So it already an interpretation It not a raw reality It not a raw reality or a primary reality It already an interpretation And that certainly helped me when I realized, hold on, there's different ways of conceptualizing the senses going on here.

I am a scientist. So the world is not upside down. We don't, you know, again that's assuming that our senses are giving us primary raw absolute reality. To say that, you know, the world is upside down and then our mind turns it the right way up, that's very 19th century. That's not current. It's not current. I mean it's one story which kind of works but it's the materialist story. It's not current. Absolutely. They're still experimenting with that. They're putting people on helmets with upside down work for a couple of weeks and they see how the brain rewires. They're not completely thrown out of the window.

Oh no, it still works. They are better theories of how this operates, which include how it operates when you sleep at night. When there is no light coming through the retina and still there is a perception fully blown. It's all there, yeah. So I mean, it works, the upside down thing works. It works the same as I can walk to the tram stop now. But that doesn't mean that the world is outside of me. It doesn't. That's already an interpretation. The thing about interpretation is that Patanjali said is a cessation of mental modifications. In that deep quietness where there's let go of mental interpretation and sensual involvement, The Nisargad is the Absolute non-separation, so you really in nonduality only in letting go the mind.

The narrative part. The narrative part of the mind, totally. Yes, yes, because... Because you're no longer that. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Because in Buddhism they say mind is one of the senses, but also they're completely inseparable. You can't separate anything from anything. This is the way of the universe. To go into unconstructed reality is really just letting go of that. That's always right now. If you are in the no-mind, then you are in reality, just not a constructed one. Yes, beautiful. And the appreciation for the way it works and seeing that nothing has to change. Even the narrative just needs recognition and then it can really give you a lot of joy.

It's what an incredible entertainment to just, you know, because the function is to yap and narrate and complain and just warn about this, this can happen, that can happen. But if that's not taken seriously, that's like, yeah, even that, nothing is a problem. You see how life in its infinite creativity and perfection reflects itself as perfection. And that includes that bullshit content creator, which may be helpful at times. I had a girlfriend that made me watch a movie sitting upside down. Uh-huh, yeah. Just to watch all those senses. Pete, I was going to ask you, you were going to say something. Something. You doubting Did you want to say something No Okay Just in terms of lived experience or ordinary experience, There are moments all the time, I'm sure for everybody, where you're, let's say, looking at something, but for whatever reason, mist or light or something, you don't know what it is.

There's that moment where, what the heck is that? And in that moment, the mind, there's the sense that the mind is absolutely relentlessly seeking a meaning, a definition. Relent, what, I've got to, that. And at the same time, in those moments of not knowing and uncertainty, there's a tremendous vitality. You know, when you discover that it in fact is a tree, that's relatively boring to compare with what it was when it was unknown. Thank you very much. I Am the Other Aspects All questions dissolved then, in that moment, we are the simple absolute nature that you are talking about. Anybody else want to say? There is a comment here from Bill.

Bob often says, one, expressing as everything. I love that. Life is totally free, so free that it is free to pretend that it is not free. It is so obvious that freedom is inescapable. It is absolutely obvious, thank you Bill, the freedom is inescapable. The mind is temporary. It's like if not right now, well, you know, when you go to sleep. Anyway, I like what you brought, Chris, about the way the mind is bringing up the meaning. Bob has this beautiful pointer. Watch the mind. Be curious about how this machine functions, what it does, because not only is it super entertaining, but it's also super liberating to see how there is no you doing any of it.

So there's no guilt, there's no shame, there's no sense of attachment. And it's just an amazement in the way it works. I like sometimes, because you know, we go outside sometimes, watch the clouds, and you can see how that interpreter projects shit on clouds, you know? Very often facial recognition software in this brain that was mapped by the computer so we can see how it functions now. We all have it. Little baby actually installs it very early to recognize first the sounds I am not a person who is not aware of the existence of the Thank you everyone. Thank you for... Thank you Bob, thanks for coming Bob, thanks Kat, thank you.

Thank you everyone. He wants to say something. Bob, thank you. But you show up and you make yourself available and you're here sitting and radiating the frequency of peace and love and serenity. In the state that Bob's health is not at its best and here we have. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone.