One Life, One intelligence energy. Sailor Bob and troops. 6 Oct 2024

Tivor, Tasha, Jane, Luke, Jess, Samantha, Kira, Ali, Rukh, Adam, Charlie, Navi, Charles, Oliver, Jacinta, Ross, Brendan, Dean, Mithra, and Bob. Thank you Bob. Hmm. Oh good. I'm not too good today so the voice might peter out along the way somewhere but who gives a damn. Anyway, all know what we talk about, what they call a lot of the great traditions nonduality, spiritual tradition. And nonduality, they translate as one without a second, not two. Only that. And that is the great mantra, I am that. But people don't understand that and go looking for something. I think they need to become one with God or some other higher power or saviour or seer to become realised.

But the realisation is just a recognition, a recognising of what you already are. They describe it as Sat Chit Ananda Nama Rupa and that Veda, that's the end of tradition. Sat is existence, Chit is consciousness and Ananda is bliss, loving to be. And the other two factors, Nama Rupa, name and form, they say is illusion. So that is all it is, Sat Chit Ananda, anybody who is not existing right now. And you know that you are existing. Anyone who is unaware or unconscious, you know you're not unaware or unconscious. And anyone doesn't want to be right now. We all want to be. So you already are that.

What would that mean if you're already that? Wouldn't it mean that the search itself is the problem? What are you seeking for if you're already that? Think of some concept or idea or image that you might have and we've all got this concept or image or belief that was taken on when we learnt words. How many words were you born with? You realise you weren't born with any words and you didn't pick up words until you were about two, two and a half, when the capacity of reasoning developed in you. But understand the word is not the thing. Try and drink the word water. Try and swim in it or drown in it.

The word fire, you can't burn yourself with the word fire. Try and cook with the word, heat yourself. Now what's this word, you can go through all the words, what's this word I or me? What's it pertaining to? It's pertaining to this pattern, shape and form which we call the body-mind. And that body-mind, when we learn the word I or me, which we didn't learn any words, I'll tell you about two, two and a half, some of you might have been smarter and picked up the words a bit before that, some of you not quite so smart and picked up the words later, but we've all learnt words in Wanoa.

And the basic words we learnt are I or me. I Am Little John I am not sure if you know that already, because that's the chair sitting in, that's the room we're in, that's the carpet on the floor, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the bird, that's the planet, that's the mountains. Everything is already there, which we've labelled with words. And seeing it, instead of seeing it as the one essence, the one reality, which patterns, shapes and forms and expresses it in everything. One reality they call absolute. And what can you add to absolute? You can't add anything to absolute, it wouldn't be absolute.

What can you take away from it? You can take anything away from it it wouldn be absolute In Buddhism they call it the great perfection Well perfection is the same as absolute you can add anything to it I Am I Am I Am I Am I Am Patons, shapes and forms that express and appear as everything. And all this manifestation is things or are things. You're a thing, I'm a thing, the tree, the flower, the bird, the tree, the mountain are all things. And what they tell you, the reality is, they give it the great, the basic space of phenomena. The base of all this manifestation is space.

And it is a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it's all rivalling into different pattern shapes and forms. It's all appearance. And the appearance is not how it appears to be. You've only got to look at nature and see that, go down to the ocean. And if I said to you, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea, what would you say? You don't be an idiot because you know the sea's not blue. But doesn't it appear to be blue? A rainbow in the sky. You'll go outside in the misty day and the sun shining through the mist forms the colours in the sky which are a rainbow.

But are those colours in the sky real? Try and grab one, you can't because they only appear to be. And many other metaphors they use along the way to point it out, the snake and the rope and other things point out All we're seeing is appearance only. And they tell you that also, they call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it's only seemingly so. And you can see that quite clearly yourself. Look in the mirror. What do you see? You see a reflection or an image in the mirror. And the saga tells you nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination.

Break that word imagination down to imijin, imagine. And that's what we're doing, we're seeing things and looking at them and talking about the immediate concepts or idea from the words we've learnt comes up. That's a bird, that's a tree, that's you, that's me. And we've got the imagined conceptual image of what we think it to be. Now when you look at that reflection in the mirror, you can't say it is there, because go and try and pull a reflection out of the mirror. You can't, because it's not there. But you can't say it's not there because it's seemingly so. So you can't say it is, and you can't say it isn't.

But the recognition and knowing about it, you know the truth, And that's the scriptural saying, know the truth and the truth will set you free. We're living from all these conceptual images or beliefs. When you look up the dictionary and look up the definition of belief, the definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. An unquestioned acceptance of an alleged fact, and alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. So put your beliefs to that test and see how many will stand up. And if it's false, it won't stand up. The false cannot stand up to investigation. And if you see the false is false, what must you be left with?

The truth. And what do they tell you there? They'll say, know the truth and the truth will set you free. And what's there to be free from? The belief. Belief. We've got these labels, we put words or labels on everything. And one of the labels we put on it is God. See this, God believes in a greater power or something that's much better than us and knows much more. And if we say, bow to him and say a few words, he'll do this for us and do that. Not recognizing or realizing that is another concept, the word God. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the word.

The word was with God, the word was God. That's all that God was, the word. All things were made by him, by the word, and that's what I've been pointing out all along. All these words and labels have all been made up, learned and picked them up. There was nothing made that was made without the word. So when we're little children and our parents start the reasoning and the parents fussing around us tell you Little Johnny instead of telling you that you are the absolute they tell you Little Johnny or Little Jane and you say I am Little Johnny Instead of saying I am the absolute I Am is God Not the concept or the word itself, but that sense of presence in which that concept or word appears.

So it's all that life. Christ tells us that, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. But he isn't. He's talking about that sense of presence that's expressing through the mind as the thought I am. Go to that and see for yourself. Recognise that you are life. That is the truth. Settle down into that. Recognising you are the absolute. Nothing can be added to the absolute. Nothing can be taken away from it. If that is so, who can ever be inferior to you? They've got all these ideas, a lot better than you, me or somebody else.

Or whoever can be superior to you? I've got to look up to this one of it. If it's absolute, there's nothing but superior to you, nothing can be inferior. And what would you want from anybody else? You know, it's all available for that presence-awareness, that intelligence energy that you are. What's necessary for that pattern, shape and form which is expressing, instead of trying to get something or become something, to settle into it and recognise what you are and let it bring to you what is necessary for the functioning of that pattern, like it's brought you into existence. Have a look at that. Where did you come from?

You came from your father and your mother. The life was in that pattern. You call your father and the life is in that pattern. You call your mother. In that pattern you call your father. A little microscopic particle called a sperm form. You can't see it with your naked eye. That sperm is fused with intelligence. It knows what to do. And the same in your mother. That animating life essence, that life in your mother and males in that little micro-spot particle called an egg. Or an ovum to form. That ovum, suffused with intelligence, attaches itself to the uterus. And the sperm, suffused with intelligence, knows what to do.

It swims to the ovum. Now there weren't two blobs of goo. They had the life in them that took them to where they needed to go. When those two merge together, that cell doubled and doubled and formed a little embryo, a little fetus, which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then? Were you looking for anything then? Belief in the eye? When you had no words for the first couple of years of your life, you were living alright. And we've been continuing to live since then. But we're living from the wrong point of view, from the point of view of separation.

From the one essence, the one life, the one intelligence essence. Separation is dualism. And we're talking about nonduality. The only one essence. The Buddha called it a cognising emptiness. As I said before, it is the cognising emptiness. Emptiness has the cognising. They would have called it a cognising emptiness. And he made the statement there and then that emptiness is form. That all these patterns, shapes, all these forms are that emptiness. Because he turned it round the other way and said emptiness is form. And he said the form can be nothing other than emptiness. Whether you like it or not, that's what you are. You are that cognising emptiness.

If you don't like it, you might get yourself into a lot of trouble coming from that separate entity which I did for many years. But in recognising it and relaxing into it and let it take you where it takes you and if I'm opening up to it and relaxing, it does take you where it takes you. Knowing the truth, the truth will set you free. And we have this capacity of reasoning and thinking, and we think we are the thought. But what's your next thought going to be? You can't tell me what your next thought is going to be. But you'll say, I think. As soon as you say, I think, well, you're done.

You form the subject, the thinker, me or I. And the thought I think has become the object. I'm thinking in this thought. But can there be a thinker without thinking? And can there be the thought without thinking? So you see thinking and thought are one and the same thing a vibrating pattern of energy Just the same as I see I hear Can the thought I see see The thought can see The thought I aware of is that your awareness The thought I choose, is that the choice maker? It's not. So there's choosing, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. It's the ING on them that is the actual, a vibrating pattern of energy, thinking, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling, all happening naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously.

When it's I see or I hear, it's a sense of separation. I think. There can't be a think without the good. There can't be the see without the seen. There can't be the taste without the tasting. The ING is the reality, a vibrating pattern of energy. And the ING is a conceptual image we have which causes that sense of separation and division when you look out in nature you realize there is no division in nature sitting here now and appears to be daylight in this part of the world we're sitting on this globe you call the earth and this earth is facing the Sun and we've learned that the earth rotates rolls around and this This part is facing the sun.

It's the light of the sun. So it's daylight. The other part is facing away. It's dark. And this which is daylight now is dark a little while ago. But they weren't divided. So they're never divided. And as Shakespeare told you three or four hundred years ago, he says there's nothing can trouble you except in your own... No. He says there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And he's right. Nothing either good or bad. So good and bad, we divide them. Love and hate, pleasure, pain, happy, sad, we divide all these concepts and get into all sorts of strife about them. It's all about fear and anxiety.

It's just because we're dividing something that's indivisible. When you see everything as it is, leave it as it is, like the day and night change, the winter and summer change, the incoming tide and outgoing tide change, so the thoughts will change, left as they are. But we go into the concept of time. Space is the basic essence of it, everything is there, and then they've got the concept of time. Now, is there such a thing as time? Well, have a look at it, ask yourself, is there a past if I don't think about it? See what you can find, see if you can see a past without a thought.

Is there good or bad if I don't think about it? So you see thought is constantly dividing. And what is wrong right now if you don't think about it? Well if you're not thinking about it, you can't say it's good, You can't say it's bad, pleasure, painful, but you don't disappear, you don't stop breathing, heart doesn't stop beating, hair and fingernails don't stop growing or food stop being digested. These things happen, the functioning goes on, but not to the believed in entity that thinks it's going to make something happen or do something about it. Nisargadatta, the first couple of years of your life you had no words.

You got on alright then without the pairs of opposites. Then we learnt words, taken the words to be real and suffered accordingly from that all through imagination. Switnasargadatta tells you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. I wrote that word imagination down to imijin, imagine. And we imagine this, we imagine that, and imagine something else. Imagine what's going to happen in a couple of hours time, or what will I do next, or what will they think of me. It's all imagined, imaged in, and the imaging is just conceptual patterning, shaping and forming. It's not the real. And that which you are, the reality, is constantly changing.

It's transient. Not the same body you got when you first learned words or when you were a little embryo. But you still say I am, I am this body. And this body is transient. It's constantly changing. You haven't got the same body you had when you walked into this room. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now and being replaced. What are you doing about that? Nothing at all, it happens by itself. So, when they, you see for yourself and look into that and see that you are that life, that patterning, shaping, forming energy, not the pattern, shapes and forms which it expresses.

They are imagined. Nothing can trouble you excepting your own imagination. How does it work now? Well something comes up and you like it. How do you know? Well, I've experienced this before and it's good. And that's the way it functions, you see, with the pairs of offices. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, high, low, near and far. When we're using words, we're using these concepts. Always dividing. Something comes up and you like it. And we don't want the good things to change. We want the people and everything to be good. We want to be happy all the time. But it's not, is it?

It's constantly changing. So, when the good thing comes up, we don't want it to go, so what do we do? We try to keep it there. In trying to keep it there, we resist it. Try to stop it from going. You've got to hang on to this one, keep it there. And don't you realise that resistance is conflict? If you are resisting anything at all, you're in conflict with it. And conflict means you're in conflict, you're fighting with it, you're arguing with it, you don't like it, you want to change it. Something comes up that you do like. What was it I said you do like before?

That you don't like. We want to get rid of that one. We don't want that one to be there. So what do we do? We fight with that one also. Try to get rid of it. So whichever way we look at it, we're in conflict. And what's in conflict? It's believed in me as a conflict with a war, with a conflict with the thinking that's going on all the time. And that brings about that conflict, fear, anxiety, stress, anxiety, guilt, remorse, jealousy, envy. All our psychological suffering comes about from that conflict that's going on. I Am the Only One. The And the effects are the envy, the anxiety, the stress.

Cause and effect, that's what they call karma, isn't it? Cause and effect. We're all concerned with this thing called karma. But what happens is if I look at the cause and see the cause, me, is a fiction. And ask the simple question, can there be an effect if it's not related to a cause? If the cause is seen as false, what's it going to be related to? It can't be related to anything. So there goes your karma, your cause and effect. What are you left with then? You're left with just what is. What is means it's unaltered, unmodified, un-what's the... Uncorrected. What was it? Uncorrected.

Uncorrected, I forget what it is. These are unaltered, unmodified characteristics. But the belief comes in of time. So it's all space and the other thing is space. So in the pure space we call ourselves human beings. What happens if you look at that, investigate that? We call God, if you believe in God, the Supreme Being. Look into those. Take away the word human. Take away the word supreme. Try and separate the beingness without those words. Anyone here right now who is not being, nobody's jumping up and saying, I'm not being. You can't because you know damn well you are that beingness. But you put the label human on it and puts a lot of difference in it, doesn't it?

Makes it unbearable all the time. There's your clue. Be what you are, not what you're believed to be. So that's why they say the false cannot stand up to investigation. And when you investigate it, what are you left with? You're left with the truth. And the other statement is know the truth and the truth will set you free. That where the freedom peace and joy is And just in the actual knowing or recognising investigating and seeing what you really are And that do for me for the day I'm lucky to get that much out of me. So Kat could, the house you'll take over? We started a little bit late.

Yeah, well you can take it all from there. I'm lucky to get that much out of me today. Thank you. Thank you for the questions from our online community, but that's not today. So today we have another speaker and that speaker goes to you. It is only amplifying the sound for those who are listening online and those who will be watching on YouTube. So now we invite everyone to share your insights. There are people in the room with decades of clarity, there are people in the room with some clarity and whatever you may bring up may help someone else, may resonate Because ultimately we don't do the worshipping of a messenger here.

And the message is that you are that. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows they exist. So there is no one who is superior or inferior. There is no one who knows any less than Bob or Buddha or Jesus that they are. And that you are, that I am, is knowing that I am, is the message. So it is really about recognizing or putting due attention into the fact, into that miraculous, radiant existence that is present and without which nothing else would be even noticed. And everything else that appears on it, the thought, the feeling, the emotion, sensation, is just passing phenomena. So if there is anything that resonated particularly with what Bob was just saying in the introduction, you could just even repeat his words and that will be yours and that will be reinforcing the message.

Or if there was anything that wasn't completely clear and you would like to dive deeper into, please bring it up. Thank you. Thank you Bob and Kat. It really struck me when you said just settle into who you are, settle into who you really are and let that bring to you what you need for your existence. I'm just going to ask a bit of a question around the investigation that you're guiding us through into seeing that there's really no evidence for our sense of a separate body. The I Am That, and everything that Nisargadatta Maharaj says. And then there are other times, say, in that book where he'll just say, you know, my guru told me just settle into I Am, just stay with the I Am, you know, not I'm this or that or need this or that or want anything, just settle into it and that's it, just I Am.

So I just wanted to ask how does that sort of fit with the investigation? You know, do you move between the two? Or do you just find that balance for yourself? Or is it when you find yourself getting attached to particular thoughts or feelings, that's when you investigate and the rest of the time you just come back to the I am? Just wanted to ask about that. When he says stay with the I am, people think he's saying stay with the word and repeat the I am like a mantra, but he's not. He's saying I am is the sense of presence. Stay with that awareness.

You're not unaware right now, are you? You are aware. Stay with that awareness. Whatever thoughts or things come up, just remember that if that awareness wasn't there, you couldn't know anything about them or understand them or anything. Settle in that, and that will open up and bring another word or another idea or clear things up for you. Not with the conceptual idea that you are this person that trying to become something or get something or something But that sense of presence is that universe shining and expressing through everything in all the different patterns, shapes and forms. And each and everything is expressing naturally and effortlessly.

It does the same with the so-called human pattern that has the capacity of reasoning more so than a lot of other animals, birds and things like that do. It's all the same life essence and it's one essence, it's patterns and experiences through everything and you are that essence. Without the life what are they going to do with that body? It's going to either be burnt or buried, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. When it goes into the dust and breaks down further than that, where does it go then? Back into space. So what's lost? Nothing. What was born? The pattern came into space through the vibration.

The pattern disappears from space. Space has never been corrupted or contaminated, added to or taken away from. It's still the constant. And you are that. Thank you. I'd love to add something to it because I love what you highlighted, that because we don't know our next thought, the thought will arise. And that's Bob's words also. The discipline of investigation also arises of its own, of itself. So there may be a moment when the recognition that, oh, there is aliveness here and that's why everything else shows up. There will be another moment where the looking, who is looking will arise. The self-discipline, just like the next thought, you don't really have to find your own balance.

The balance will find itself through you. It's like really you can't get it wrong because there is no you to get it wrong. And we have couple of amazing spiel says Adrian, amazing spiel Bob and you are a center of love in action emanating. That's beautiful he said. And Sina says, thanks Sailor Bob, nonduality Melbourne questions being answered before them being questioned. Beautiful. And Tania says, is wanting to improve the appearance of the body, get bigger muscles mean there is identification with the body? And JB says, good morning. You want to answer that to Tania? Wanting to change the appearance of the body, does it mean there is an identification?

If you want to put a clean clothing or you want to have healthy muscles or you want to, you know... It's like, Tania, if you look at the animals, if you see whatever, the pack of chimps, the boys who want the biggest muscles, they will have different position in the group. But is there an identification? Is there an imagined self because they want the bigger muscles? If you translate it into nonduality, the urge to have bigger muscles arises, like the urge for drinking arises, like an urge for cooking or going to the toilet arises. If you translate it into, oh, there is a proof, a me is real, see, Silent Bob is an idiot, me exists, it's real, I'm identified with it.

No, no. If there is an urge to cut your hair or color it or if there is an urge to put a dress or to go on the fasting or go into muscle building, body building, that's what happens. Life is experiencing and expressing itself through the urge. You may embrace it or just keep looking. If you have any sort of a doubt that it means anything, just see how meanings are also arising. Because you may believe that you give things meanings, but see if there is no you, meaning also arises. And if not for the life, the meaning wouldn't be there. Thank you for the question.

It can be really expanded into any sort of urges. Any question can really be expanded and shown how there isn't anyone who is again getting it wrong. And that's it from the online community. Anyone? I just want to add on to what you just said. It's about having the urge and if you're not suffering it, then it's... if you're not suffering the urge... Yeah, if the urge arises but there is no suffering, you know, the urge arises, whatever, to put a suit or whatever. And if you can't find a suit if you don't suffer it, then it's... I think there is no... I say if the pain or suffering didn't come up with it, you mightn't be moved to do it, you might be stubborn enough to try and hang on to it or keep it there.

Yeah. But this is a great point, you know, it's the pain versus suffering. You know, if there is a pain, let's say your bladder is full and it hurts, there is an urge running to the toilet, that happens. I am not a person who is Tanya is saying oh you know my body is not good enough my face is not good enough my muscles are not good enough I am unlovable That's obviously psychological suffering that could be questioned. But that in turn is moving into the self, isn't it, because I am no good. I'm no good, I look awful, it's the way it always is and as I undertake this program of weight reduction or whatever, as then we get trapped in the bondage of what might be a natural urge to look after the body becomes a self sort of obsession.

Self-absorption, self-obsession, yeah, beautiful. I wouldn't have looked into this stuff at all if there wasn't suffering here. I would have been out of it long ago. Well, the suffering takes you to look at things. That's right. And I hope, Tanya, that you are not suffering, and the question is just coming to us as a confirmation that whatever appears on the screen of awareness, whatever urge is coming through the screen of awareness, It is neither good or bad, but thinking makes it so. The urge is innocent. If it doesn't cause any harm, well, it's double innocent. Even if it does, because, well, we all eat, you know, eating carrots is killing carrots, that is.

But really, if you are not suffering, just recognize what's happening. The thought is passing through the screen of awareness, the feeling, the urge, the whatever, even desire. Nothing is personal unless there is a belief that it is. And we have Adrian says, I like what Kat said then about the discipline of investigation. I feel this requires some earnest investigation using the pointers. Yes, thank you Adrian. I actually heard that that's Bob's words that the discipline arises just like an urge arises. So somewhat finding yourself in the settings when the pointers are really bumped at you may cause that sort of reprogramming and that discipline to arise when it is required.

And again, there is no me doing it. There is no control anywhere. It's just arising. And Tania says, thank you Kat, I was just wondering about that as it is seen, as it is seen, there is no me, but still the urge to exercise, lift weights appears and then the story, this means blah blah blah. So it's not identification then, no suffering here, just curious which is why I ask. Yeah, I thought so, I thought you have pretty good clarity, so thank you for asking, there will be many people out there benefiting from it. Yes, you can see how meaning arises, how the story arises and tries, the story doesn't try, but the pattern is to interpret it again as if there was an I and it was real.

And Jyoti says, following an urge without an attachment to the outcome. Beautiful. That is a great clarification. And Tanya says, and then the thought, the belief is personal, is just another thought floating through the sky of awareness. Exactly. The question arose here that is the correct view there is suffering but there is no one to suffer. There is no one who actually suffers. Is that correct? You could say that, however, the suffering then kind of loses its meaning. Well, if you're talking about yourself, that there is a suffering, but there is no me to suffer, what is that suffering then? You know, you can see the suffering around the world, and again, this is a definition.

Translationata What is suffering? In the moment if everything is just as it is, what can you say about it except that there's some pain there? It seems that the me always wants to claim something. So like a thought comes up and we want to claim it as it's this or me that's having these thoughts or I'm saying and that's me or as Bob sometimes says, oh, this is my car or this is my body. Like it's not really our body. It's just a line that's just going to go straight back into what it was. So I think the me always wants a claim. And when we get stuck in a thought and we call it, oh, this is my thought, that's where the suffering begins because it's all past content coming up.

And then we get lost and we get stuck on things. And if we just drop back into that awareness and everything is that, it just disappears. Thank you. Thank you. I was just thinking about one of the quotes that I had written somewhere of Nisargadatta when he talks about the me and the mine. As Bob said earlier in his spiel, you know, we're always in the pairs of opposites. The Nouration is the other person, place or thing. The thing is another thought. When there is duality there is always separation. You are quite right. The mind's nature is to name and claim. That is its nature.

It is always going to do that. And, you know, there's, as you said, a sitting back and watching, watching it do its thing, you know. It's always going to do that. Sometimes it'll be very active, other times it'll be quiet, you know. It gets quieter. But, yeah, what you said is right on, exactly right on. I found that quote because I kind of almost remember it, but it's really nice to hear it in original, in Nisargadatta's words, because it really relates to what you say. The me that is claiming, and Nisargadatta suggests, there's nothing wrong. Just expand it, expand the claiming of the me, and you will realize that every thought arising in your head, in the radio, in anybody else's head, It's within you because you are the field of consciousness that is experiencing whatever is arising.

And here's how he says it. This was a question about love. Does love act deliberately? And he answers yes and no. Life is love and love is life. What keeps the body together but love? And that is also towards Tania's questions. What keeps the body together but love? What is desire? But love of the self, what is fear but the urge to protect, and what is knowledge but the love of truth. The means and forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love. Love of the me and the mine, the loving to be, love of the me and the mine, and this is what I meant here.

The me and the mind may be small, the imagined entity inside, or may explode and embrace the universe, but love remains. So if you see that claiming me, just expand it to the whole field of experiencing, the field of seeing. Everything that happens within the seeing happens within you. Everything happens within experiencing, within that field of consciousness. It's me, me, mine, mine. It's not imagining that I am big. Doesn't need to be anyone there to be big, but the language always translates into the mine. But yeah, if you see the separation in claiming, that's the red flag. I just wanted to come back to suffering for a minute.

I feel that I can see for myself you know it makes a lot of sense to say notice whether it a physical pain or you know some hurt that you feeling emotionally just to come back and look at it and just observe you know and sort of step back from it I am a member who is not a sufferer development of empathy still that seems so important and you know I know that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj you know when he's questioned in the book on suffering and sometimes he can sort of seem dismissive in a way but I you know again he's trying to get people to get through to the real nature of reality but then he also says you know when I see I am everything I am nothing, that is love.

When I say I am nothing, that is wisdom. And then he talks a lot about the need for affectionate awareness. So I guess I just feel deeply that this is a path of love, but sometimes it can sound like indifference. And I just, how do you... I'm trying to work that out. But it's super simple. It's me versus others. And some... Can I go? Sometimes just ask yourself who's suffering. You know, it takes practice. And I know from my own self. But when you ask the question, who's suffering, there's a sense of... And you're in all the... You know what Bob says, there's only space and now.

So when you think about it, then you can see, oh... The and the more you practice it's just so simple really yeah and there is this big distinction and I love that you brought it up you know there there is a direct experience within that body mind and there is a dream going on and denying the suffering in the dream is silly I mean why would you do that Bob just said that the suffering brought him into investigation and who doesn't know the suffering firsthand from the Everyone who comes into those spiritual settings is usually because they are sick and tired of suffering. Within the setting of the dream, as you say, and it's beautiful, the same quote that I just read from Nisargadatta, there is love behind everything.

If not for suffering, there would be no compassion, there would be no heart going out to people. That is necessary within the dream. Suffering is absolutely necessary, otherwise there would be no freedom from suffering. Because the whole appearance, the whole manifested world is dualistic. And again, it's real in its nature, but it is maya, it is illusion in the way it appears. It appears like there is a separation, like body are separated, like day and night are separated. Because that's the nature of the dream, it has to appear dualistically. Same as you see in the dream at night when you're sleeping. There seems to be people, events, conversations, fights or whatever it is.

But where does it happen? Does it even happen? Is it separated from the field of mind space that it is happening in? No. And is it real? No. And yet, as the dream character, we are experiencing the darkness and the light The cold and the hot and the pain and the disease and all of it fully knowing that in essence it is just life vibrating but it vibrates into the opposites. Now the direct experience is coming back home to nonduality. So in the direct experience even if there is a pain in the body. And I think Bob should be speaking about that because he's got serious health challenges and he's on a large amount of serious painkillers.

And when they stop working there is a pain in the body. Whether there is a necessity for the suffering arising with the pain or it isn't. See, this is the difference. When I'm talking about the realization or self-realization, that is only what is happening directly. I can't say what another person feels or what they should feel. And as you say, it would be absolutely awful and it would be psychopathic to tell someone who just, you know, like Navi's friend lost, she lost a friend in a terrorist attack a few days ago. And then, shit, to tell what? Her family that, ah, there is no suffering.

Hello. It's unthinkable. And any sense of, any lack of compassion in a situation where the suffering is present, or even when the pain is present, ah, yeah, it's a waste of that, of that, of that love. Yeah, well that's what you said, it's just a part of love, all there is is love. Yeah. Anything we split or divide it all indivisible It all an expression of life And it can express in every way in every which way how and why It's only that. And also what Brendan just said before, it's the me that wants to claim everything. So the more we let go of the me.

So seeing the trap is just a pointer. And so you become, well not that there's any you, but you become more, it happens more quickly or more instantly. It's not a big search anymore, it's just a spontaneous thing. There's the pattern, let it go, there's the pattern, let it go. And what happens is, because you're not taken up, your energy isn't taken up in the narration, you know, the natural compassion and empathy just arises. It's just, you know, you can cry when crying is happening, you can laugh when laughing is happening, you know, and it's not shrouded by a big story anymore. That's how I see it.

That's true, that's the... not getting caught in the big story, you know, the little story comes up in your head and then you realise, oh yes, this is the story and it's about me. Once upon a time. Once upon a time you can spin that story into weeks of drama and pain, but in realising it, it's not such a big deal. No, it's not a big deal, no. That's why there is no suffering in sleep because the I am is not experienced. But I've got a question for Bob in that aspect. The sense of being is, the continuity is lost in the sleep, so where is that sense of presence in sleep?

What is the sense of presence in sleep? When you wake up in the morning you'll say, I slept well. How would you know? There must have been awareness of sleep when you were in deep sleep. There was an awareness. If the presence wasn't there, what would experience the dreams? I heard something the other day that said when you remember something, you don't remember The Being of it, you just remember the thoughts, the feelings. If you think of, I don't know, you meditated this morning or whatever. Do you remember the being in the meditation or do you remember if a thought happened, if a sensation happened?

You remember just the objects of experience but the beingness is not something that you can remember and I think it's the same way with the with the sleeping. You know that it is, the beingness was there but there's There is nothing to remember because there was no object of experience unless you had a dream, which was like again an object of experience. So when we remember something, it's only something that was in the dualistic world basically, but the beingness is a felt knowing. I don't know if I explained it well. Beautiful. That's perfect. Yeah, it's like if you see what the mind is really and what the memories really, you could say it's like a type recorder or like whatever any other recorder.

If there is nothing that could be recorded, where what is it there? It's nothing. Sorry, it just like made me think of this thing. I have epilepsy and the only reason I know generally that I've had a seizure is because I wake up and there's other people around me. But I had one on my own in the bathroom two weeks ago and I still knew that it happened but I'm just realizing that it's because I woke up and everything hurt and I was on the ground. I'm a Well, the truth is beautiful. I mean, you can find various answers from various perspectives, but if you want the nondual perspective, this moment now is the only reality.

Now, the past, what we can actually experience, the way we experience past, we don't really remember how it happened, we reconstruct it. So our childhood like if I say I remember my first day at school or I remember my first childhood trauma or I have images of abuse or whatever I reconstruct them There isn really any filing system in the brain that you could pick and you would have the fixed memory always there In the moment of now the whole past arises including the history including whatever the knowledge is including constructing the planet and the countries and the capitals of the countries and presidents and all of it It is only now.

It is unthinkable because the mind is like, again, it is a device which segregates, what does it do? It kind of compartmentalizes and interprets and does all sorts of this like a bio-computer. That it makes sense of the reality by inventing the time and placing things along the timeline. But the direct experience does not contain time. Time past can't be experienced. It can only be the memory or so-called constructed memory can only be experienced presently. The future can't be experienced directly either. It can only be experienced as the imagination or anticipation in this moment now. So really from nondual perspective it is whatever you construct in the moment.

If you say it happened, that's what you experience, it happened. And this is really a big problem with certain types of therapy or hypnotherapy. You know, people get traumas throughout their lives and they get into a state and they construct the abuse that never happened. But it explained beautifully the whole situation, the whole patterns, and it resolves them. So did it or didn't it? And does it matter? I hope you will find a solution if there is any or it doesn't cause much suffering. What a beautiful opportunity for other people to actually be at service and show love and compassion and care. They will be grateful.

It's not like we are a nuisance asking someone for help or getting fast. We actually giving them opportunity to serve. I'm out of words. That's okay. I was just going to say one of the things that comes to mind. Well, if there is no me, what is there to investigate and who is investigating? And thinking about these separations, you know, the awareness of the current moment and when I am in those states of flow, and being present, and these memories and these ideas I do have about the past and these things that have happened, I'm a We have these projections of things of the future and it's hard to not think that we can use some of this thinking productively to break down what we can do different, what we would like to be different.

And how the, you know, those urges as we were talking about earlier, if there is any way to make them happen, you know, is there any way to, you know, make yourself stay present, bring yourself back to the present? How do you get these, you know, it seems like there's nothing to be done and there's no one to do it. If you really take it, if you can really do it. And what a beautiful action. You either are or you aren't, right? Yes, it's a beautiful set of questions. You said, like, that was a line of questions, you know, who does the investigation, who does the trying, who does the striving, forgetting somewhere, being something, Who strives to get the lessons right and learn from the experience?

Is there any necessity for the I, for the imagined self to do any of it? Because if you look at the, again, the wildlife who do not have that default mode network that hallucinates the self that is taking credit for everything, you will see animals are effortlessly learning and they effortlessly follow the flow of life, they one with the flow of life. And they always take the decisions that are optimal for their survival. So do the humans. The idea that there is an I, that I am in charge and I have the control and I can screw my life, I can get it wrong, I can waste my potential, I can hurt myself or others.

This is just the narrative. Without that narrative, like Bob said in the spiel on the beginning, for the first couple of years of your life, You didn't have this credit-taking agency and you were just fine. When you needed to flip over the body from one side to the other, well, once you could do that, you did that, learning to walk. All of it is happening just by being one with life. So here is recognizing, doing nothing, recognizing, happens of its own, investigation, and then

The Loving to be, being, knowing of being and loving to be, Sat Chit Ananda. So it will always do the best it can in given situation.

That's for granted. Unless of course it is suicidal, that is also possible that this is the best solution in given situation. It's all spontaneous. The The Nisargad program is a program that is based on the knowledge of the Self. Even though we have to live that life and experience it, it's just, I don't know, it seems easier as you go along, but yeah, is that right? Yeah. Bob, you were trying to say something. I said something? Yeah, yeah, but you started a sentence, huh? It's all spontaneous, it's timeless. It's gone, okay. Timeless. I just thought I'd add that, you know, it was easy to see earlier on there was no seer or no hearer.

The fact that there was no doer, I found harder to sort of accept that the doing just happens. And the same, there's no thinker. And the thinker is a thought, that there is actually a thinker there thinking this is another thought. And yet I'd think, oh, I'm thinking this and I've got to change my thinking or something or other, The thought is another thought, that's all it is. So the thinking happens naturally too. And what needs to be done gets done. And that pure intelligence energy that you are is freed up when it's not bogged down by the alleged thinker, the doer. You know, it's like Bob says, it's spontaneous, so it's creative.

It's, you know, it's miraculous, really. And I think the less you're up here, the more you see that everything that's happening is being taken care of. There is absolutely no doer, you know. And sometimes something will come up, I want to find such and such or do this or that. It's just presented in front of me. And I didn't do anything. And I say thank you. I say thank you a lot these days. Because it's like everything is taken care of. And I know it sounds a bit trite to say there is no me, everything is taken care of, I am the one who has to deal with it.

I'm sorry to explain. Can I say one more thing? Yeah, go for it. This may be one of the problems with my conditioning, but a thought that does come up from somewhere. That suffering is maybe essential for certain things. So, I know we said earlier there's the difference between pain and suffering. So the pain is maybe more directly going to get you to do something. You know, if you need to, if the bladder's full, you need to pee. I do wonder with suffering how much, you know, part of my mindset is that it can be essential to growth and learning and change and these positive things.

And then there's the unnecessary suffering, which is when it becomes too far. Do people think that that just another you know misconception or problem with the thinker That there is some need for that suffering or do people think there is positivity in the suffering at times as well There no solutions in the mind I Am I Am I Am I Am I Am I Am What is suffering? When is it a suffering? And it's just really rolling in your mind. If action is required, action spontaneously happens. If the learning, you know, burning a finger on the stove happens, that's automatic, spontaneously arises. Anything that is required.

And now the narrative will come and make a philosophy out of it. You need this or you need... It is a machine which is allegedly assisting, of course, survival and simplifying things, but it's also the other side, the flip side of the coin, is unnecessarily complicating things. And naming and claiming and labeling. We put it all on the mind. Show me your mind. Yeah, the capacity to think, okay, the thoughts arising. The thoughts are complicating things. Definitions, meanings. And we have here Gilbert says, non-conceptual awareness has no past or future. All trying is being made by whom? And Jay says, morning, beautiful flowers today. That's from people's garden.

And that's from Ross. The three important concepts in the Buddha's teaching, Dukkha, Anicca and Anatta. Dukkha is suffering and at one point the Buddha said all is suffering. Anicca is impermanence and that's the fact that nothing stays, everything is, nothing lasts, everything is impermanent. And he's talking about things being the appearance, anything that appears is a thing which appears in no-thing. The mind is no thing. As Bob says, show me your mind. And anatta is not self. So, you know, any talk about the self in terms of I or me is anatta, a not utter self. So it's the same basic things in different teachings, but the dukkha is just part of what is.

And as you get older you realize that's pretty obvious. It's just contribution. Beautiful Ross, thank you. I think suffering is just resistance. I think there can be pain, but pain plus resistance equals suffering. And sometimes you need to go through so much resistance to realize, or not even to realize, the let go just happens. And yeah, that's, I guess that is like a learning experience. Sometimes you don't want to take the suffering away from somebody. Because if you take it away, then they don't go through a learning experience, they don't grow. The most compassionate thing you can do is just listen, be there with them and suffer with them.

If you take away their suffering, it's kind of like... Yeah, they don't ripen as a person. Yeah. It's like what Nisargadatta says. Be who you are. Don't pretend to be anything else. Don't pretend to be a doer. Be the space. If within you as a space there is someone crying who knows you may respond ask the space by crying or holding space But yes don try to fix them change them alter modify correct Don't try to be a doer. But at the same time, if that's what's happening, be the space for that to be happening. Yeah, because that's ultimately what you're doing with your own suffering.

You're just sitting there and paying attention to it, like that's what you were saying. When a pain comes up, you just pay attention to it until it dissipates. And then once you've done that inside of yourself enough times, it just expands. And you start doing it with others. You don't go around saying like, oh, there is no self. You just start listening and paying attention to people the same way you've done. And that's... Yeah. I agree. That's what love is, it's just listening, paying attention. Beautiful. You see the dream as a dream, you've done all you can, the rest will be done for you. By the same life that brought you into existence.

I love that. I love that. See the dream as a dream, and the rest will be done for you. That's it in a nutshell really. And by saying that, it doesn't mean disrespect towards pain or suffering or anything. It's just, yeah, whatever is happening, whatever is arising. Yeah. Can I have a microphone, please? Yes. Thank you. Peace is an inside job. I wish everyone all over the place, all over the world recognize this. Peace is an inside job and what comes out of it is peace as well. So from bottom of my heart I wish everyone attempt falling peace till they stabilize in the peace.

Peace be upon all. Thank you. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree. Thank you. It may just be like a mind fighting with itself again. There is a part of me that does feel that the suffering is essential to, it's not just resistance, but it's essential in the present, in some parts of progress, in some parts of whatever state you're in. There will, through all of our lives, be at points suffering. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. To be that suffering, almost to get there. So, that's just a thought that comes up.

And again, it's another part of the brain and the illusion and the trying to make sense and logic to it all. And defend the suffering. But it does come up. Yeah, to almost defend it, or to make the suffering positive. Like, it is the two sides of the same stick. You know, it's all, there is never gonna be just the good. Or, you know, anyway, that's just a thought that came up in response to the idea of the suffering Resistance Guilt is just the tension in the stomach, grief is the sharp pain in the chest. All emotions are just body sensations. And it like you create that posture within yourself to allow that essence to create greater observation in self It hard to explain I suppose but there is progress you know like that anxiety just turns into energy and that guilt just turns into abundance Like the cold plunge, I hate cold plunges, but you learn to love it, something within you just surrenders and you say, wow, you know, you love it, but not before you go through that process, you know, and that's the devotional aspect of nonduality I suppose, but that's just how I see it.

The only way out is through. Yeah, that's how I see it. Go into that dark drain and conquer it. You know, that's how I see it. This is the saying that in life pain is inevitable, but the suffering is optional. Discomfort is inevitable. And I think the best way again we could ask Bob. He lived over 96 years. For the first half of his life he was in incredibly immense suffering, like unsinkable suffering. I remember asking him straight after surgery where his body was opened up and the pain was unbearable, he was pressing that morphine button and it was still pain unbearable, that is there a suffering?

And he started laughing because he remembered the depths of the alcoholism and the zoo nights and shit like that. And he would laugh because he'd seen real suffering and now he doesn't. So this is the thing, suffering is optional. It doesn't mean that it's going to be taken away if you enjoy suffering. Well, that isn't a suffering anymore. And the truth is, yes, there is a discomfort, you know, like when you think of great artists creating fantastic pieces of art out of the tragedy that they are depicting The I don't want it to be here, like Bob was saying again in the beginning. I like it, I want it to last.

I don't want it to go away. Or I don't like it, I want to push it away. So this narrative is what causes the suffering. Animals don't have the narrative, so even if they have whatever, the wound, or they're sick or they're starving, there is just bodily sensations. As you said, beautiful. I think this is really, I mean we don't really advise any sort of practices, but if life takes you to practicing noticing things, well what could ever go wrong with that? Bob suggests taking away any emotional label and just see what is happening presently. If you are in fury, take a label away and see what's happening presently.

The body is shaking, the pulse is rushing, the fists are clenching. This is what's happening presently. It doesn't even have to be a formal meditation or any sort of a practice. It's just really a commitment or being in the heart with what is happening presently, rather than being living in the head and giving credibility to the head and what is happening in the narrative. So the suffering comes from following the narrative rather than being present with sensations. And sensations may be super uncomfortable. And again we can ask Bob super uncomfortable. I mean, yeah. It's also familiar too, suffering. It's like a bad relationship. And who doesn't, yes, doesn't matter how...

Do you want to go back or do you want... Yeah, who doesn't have that, yeah, that experience first hand of being trapped in that illusion of self, I Am Self in that imprisonment of not being enough and in that existential angst that I'm going to get rejected. Goodness! Even having that as an available memory of what is not happening is a good reference point for, like Jane was saying, for just looking around and saying thank you to everything, life resolving itself and flowing. I just remember what Bob used to say to me because I used to get very nervous before I performed. And you know, he'd say, just don't name it.

Just watch it. You know, and I see it as the energy I need to do the performance. You know, whatever that performance might be. Don't call it anxiety. No, don't call it anything. Just watch the energy levels change. Yeah, that's right. I liked what you said. We have one last comment here. Catherine replying to Gilbert, oh that's probably James. Gilbert is the phantom and Gilbert says choiceless awareness is not an option. No chooses anything. Okay and that's that. Thank you everyone.