Everything and no-thing are not divided. Sailor Bob and friends on nonduality. 15 Sept. 2024

We just say the name around. There's Dee. Hello, I'm Dee. Dee. Belinda. I'm Belinda. Joseph. Hayman. Anthony. Carl. Jimmy. Nikki. Mike. Robert. Lockie. Ross. Brendan. Dean. Zeebo. Mitra. And Bob. And Kat. And Kat. There you go. Hi everyone. I am the head of the National Council for the Development of the National Government of Australia. It's what they call in the spiritual circus, circle, I said circus, but nonduality. Nonduality meaning one without a second, not two, only that. And that's the simplicity of it all, but that simplicity is missed when we're taken to be other than one. And that is the cause of all our problems when it's divided.

Divided that presence-awareness into other than one. And the sense of separation is isolation, it's insecurity, it's vulnerability. And that's where all our fears, anxieties, stress, guilt, remorse and psychological suffering comes from. That idea that we are this separate entity, this individual, this person. And that doesn't fit the definition of non-duality, which is only that, one without a second, not two. So whether you know it or not, and there's quite a few in here that do now, that there is only that and you are that. And trying to become something or acquire something or realize or whatever, it'll never happen. Because how can you become something that you already are?

You can't. But it's the realization and recognition that that is all there is, which takes away all that fear, insecurity and vulnerability. And we settle down into that one essence. Another label I put on it is intelligence energy. The activity of knowing. Intelligence is knowing. And the knowing, the I in G, is an activity, a movement. So that's energy. So intelligence energy, one without a second. We've taken on this belief that we are this person. And how did that come about? It came about when we learnt words. And you realise you weren't born with any words. And you didn't have any words until you were a couple of years old.

So that puts you prior to the word, you're before the word. And because we've taken on the belief in the word and never looked beyond that, I Am. Satyut Ananda Nama Rupa And nonduality is one without a second. And there appears to be many in this room. And we don't realize that it's only the one. The one life, the one being, the one intelligency. A lot of people call it God. But you can get confused with that term too. We are living in an ordinary life. We must know that the world is not a place for us to live, that it is a place for us to have a place to know that God is present in this day and age you got a word for And there was nothing made that was made without the word So we've taken the belief in these words and put the conceptual meaning in the words and lose sight of our true nature.

And if you look at it closely you'll see it's only me that can be fearful. Only me can be anxious, only me can be depressed or unhappy. And recognise from that that me is the cause of all the psychological suffering. And what's the opposite of cause? It's effect. That's what so-called karma is, cause and effect. If me is the cause, the effect must be what idea or concept I'm putting on that cause. That I am this person, I am this label, I am this anxiety, I am this fear. All effects are the cause. But if you investigate the cause and ask yourself, if I see that the cause is a fiction, doesn't really exist, and ask the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating to a cause?

Well, you see there can't possibly be. So all our problems are problems of relationship, all relative to, relative to this believed in me, There was a seeming cause of everything. How did these words come about? How did this idea of person come about? Well, how did you begin? You say, I was born. Yet as I pointed out before, you don't remember your birth. How does it come about? Well, that animating intelligence energy, that life, Which you called your father, enabled in that pattern of vibrating life essence, enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle to form. Which got through your eating and breathing and tasting.

That microscopic particle you call a sperm. You can't see it with the naked eye. But that sperm was a fuse with that life, with that intelligence energy. It knew what to do. And the same in the mother. That animating life essence in your mother. Another little microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form. That ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. The sperm has the capacity of swimming. It swam to the over-ment and penetrated the over-ment, showing that that life was there even then in a different form. It wasn't the body or the mind at that stage, but it developed into the person after a period of time, so-called time.

So the What you are today. What were you doing about it then? And what are you doing about it today? You realize that you as the person, the entity, weren't doing anything and cannot do anything. But the life essence, what you really are, is doing it. It's growing in that vibrating energy. I am the mother of the little embryo, the little fetus. And that grows and it continues to accumulate cells and things. And then when it's born it grows some more. At the age of about two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning develops and it starts to learn words from the parents. And the parents say, you tell it to your little Johnny or your little Billy and they learn the words from their parents and you come to say, I am little Johnny or little Billy or whatever your name might be.

So you've taken this I am on. Now what's that thought I am? We believe it is what we really are, but it's not. It's just a thought. A thought, two words. I am. Turning to the reality, the essence of what I am. But I am not this person. I am not this body. I am just this mind. I am the life itself the reasoning the intelligence energy I am the life that vibrates into all these patterns shapes and forms The body and the mind And so we believe that. And keep learning more words. The soul goes to school. And it learns more words. And continues to add more words.

Words and we got this conceptual image. I'm Bob the Australian, the good fella. I like this, I don't like that, I'm fearful. All relating to the I. But they tell you that the great mantra is I am that. And we miss out on that. I hear you say that's a good one. I'll look into that one day maybe. When you do look into it you'll see that everything is that. Because that's the chair you're sitting in, that's the sofa, that's the carpet in the room, that's the space in the room, that's the tree outside, that's the car going by, everything is already that. And that is not the name and form we put on it, but the reality, the actuality, the pure vibrating life essence itself.

Christ told you that a couple of thousand years ago, whenever it was. He said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't. He was talking about that sense of presence which is the same sense of presence as you and me. It's the one presence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and experiencing, expressing as everything. What's the definition of reality? The definition of reality is that which never changes. And what is it in this manifestation that never changes? You can't say it's your body, your body's changing right now. You can't say your mind or the thoughts, they're changing.

You can't say it's this world that's constantly changing. The only thing that never changes is space. Can you find the beginning of the space? You can look at the space and you can't find a space anywhere where it begins. You find a place where it ends. You can't find a place where it ends. Can you give it any shape, any form? You can't. So it has no beginning, no end, no form, no shape, no form. It just is. But can you postulate or think of anything at all which can be outside of space? You look at it and you see you can't find anything at all which can be anything outside of space.

It's all the content of space. And space is no thing. And it's not even getting anywhere. So can something come from no thing? It can't. So all this manifestation is what they call the adornment of space. It's all the adornments of space, what appears, patterns, shapes and forms in space. But we take it to things to be real and not recognise them for what they are, just vibrating patterns. And this I, we translate it into another word, me. So I and me are what we call the body-mind. Now, am I this body? Well, you say my body. Say my house, my car, my coat. Are you the house?

I Am the body, I am the body. Can you, the believed-in entity, separate yourself from those elements? You can't. The wildest body is a vibrating pattern of intelligence, energy, elements. Same with the mind. What's the mind? You say, my mind, show me your mind. Can you show anything at all that you can call mind? When you look at it and investigate, there's nothing that you call mind. It can be outside of space. It is no thing. What is it, basically? Mind is sound. What's sound? Sound's word, noise. What's word? Sound or word? And what the sound It a vibration And a vibration is a movement of energy So all this manifestation is a vibrating pattern of energy which we put on the conceptual image that it is this person that it is this body that it is this mind Take it on board and function from there, living as the so-called person.

The person they tell you in the scriptures is not the reality. It's just a conceptual image. Nisargadatta tells you nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. We'll take that word imagination and break it down to image in or imagine and relating it creating all these conceptual or mental images. Take them to be real and you've got this conceptual image to believe the person. It's me, it's I. And now you've seemingly separated yourself from the absolute by a conceptual image. Now the concept or the word is just a thought or an idea. And being a vibration, a movement, it's constantly transient. Like, have a look into this manifestation and you'll see that everything in this manifestation is changing right now.

The breath you just took is a different breath. The thoughts, the ideas that it brings up are different words, different concepts. The patterns, shapes and forms are constantly changing. The whole manifestation is constantly changing. And the definition of reality being that which never changes. So we've got this conceptual image which is changing. What is it that never changes? And they call it the basic space of phenomena in the scriptures. The base of all this phenomena is space. That's the base at which it appears in. And look at the way it is so also. Look in the space, the space, and see the pattern shapes and forms appear in it.

And the pattern shapes and forms which are changing or appearing are not the actuality. Because they're constantly transient. Space doesn't change. And if that is what we are, there's nothing you can postulate or think of that could be outside of space. What would it be in? It must be in space. I Am Jai and you are prior to the Word, because if you ask yourself what is wrong with right now, if I don't think about it, then you cannot say there's anything right or wrong without a thought. So you're prior to the thought, you're prior to the Word. Now if you're prior to the Words and you didn't learn any words through about two, two and a half, when the capacity of reasoning is developed, I Am is the Nama Rupa, existence, consciousness bliss.

Set is existence. Is anyone in this room who is not existing right now? Oh, you realize I'm existing. Anyone who is not conscious, you realize, oh, I'm not unconscious, I must be conscious. And anyone who is not happy to be. Now what am I doing here? Trying to become whole or realised or recognise my true nature. And in looking at that and seeing that I'm already existing, I'm already conscious, and I'm already happy to be, then I'd point out that I must be already that. So in recognising that and realising and understanding, that must be a big sense of relief and happiness. I'm already that.

There's nothing to become, nothing to get. Just be what I am. And I am is not this body, it's not this mind. It is this non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence-awareness, which they tell us in the scriptures. That's what it is, non-conceptual, ever-fresh, presence-awareness. And they add onto it just this, nothing else. Nothing else at all other than that. So there's nothing to become but just recognizing the being, a re-cognizing. And the Buddha calls it a cognizing emptiness. And we think we've got to cognize the emptiness, we've got to see the emptiness. The emptiness is there, it's always there, it's the base in which everything appears. And he made the statement then that emptiness is form.

All these forms which I pointed out before are just patterns, shapes and forms, appearances. All these forms are empty. Emptiness is form and he pointed out that forms can be nothing other than emptiness. Going back to what we pointed out before, that there is this cognising emptiness. That is all there is. And though it seems to be pattern, shapes and forms in this room, adornments on that basic space, what everything is, is the basic space. Now space has no beginning, no ending, no parts, no circumference, or no shapes or forms. But yet it is everything and the no-thing. So you are already that. And the everything and the no-thing are not divided, they are the one.

And that one is all there is. Only that. And that's what we recognise, that I am already that. And seeing that this me I believe myself to be can't be the truth, can't be what I am because it's just a concept. And if the cause me is just a concept, is just a fiction, and I ask the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not related to a cause? Well just ask yourself, can there? See it for yourself right now. If you can't relate to the effect me, can there be a cause? You realise there can't be a cause, but have I disappeared?

I haven't disappeared. I haven't stopped seeing. I haven't stopped hearing. I haven't stopped tasting, smelling, or living or being. It's happening naturally and spontaneously. Investigate and see, what's my next thought going to be? And I can't tell you what my next thought is going to be, can you? And you realise you say, no, I can't tell you what my next thought is going to be. But that thought will arise. And what do we do? We grasp onto it and say, I think this thought. As soon as you say, I think the thought, what have you done? You formed a subject, a thinker, me, that's thinking this thought.

So the thinker is thinking the thought, it's the subject. And the thinker has become the thought, I think. But when you look at it, can that thought, I think, think? You realise a thought can't think. The energy moves or the spontaneous functioning moves and it comes up as a thought and I think. As soon as the thought comes up I think, what's the thinking? Whatever the thought might be that comes up. So I'm thinking this thought and the thought becomes the object. So now we've got duality, thinker and thought, subject-object. That's where it all comes from. Division, subject-object, duality. Can't be a thinker without thinking and there can't be the thought without thinking.

The same with seer and seeing. There can't be a seer without seeing and there can't be the seeing without seeing. But ask yourself, what's seeing? Is it the thought I see that sees? You realize the thought I see can't see. The thought I hear can't hear. The thought I taste, touch or smell can't be the taste, touch or smell. The thought has no power to do anything of itself. It's just translating. The thinking subject-object is thought is just ideas, concepts, images which are taken to be real without question. And that questioning appears to be real and now we've created this conceptual image that's consciously and forever thinking, The What thinking is there going to be Can there be a thinker without thinking If there no thinker there what thinking is there going to be Can there be a seer without seeing No seer seeing there what's going to be seen, or hearing, or tasting.

The seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the thinking, the smelling is the actual. The I see, I think, I hear, I taste, I love, I hate, I am depressed is the false. We're relating it to our fiction, getting the wrong taste on things. And that could cause fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, remorse. What's I am? It's the awareness of presence, the knowing that I am, the being what I am. It's the presence-awareness. And that's the great reality, the presence-awareness. It's only me that can be fearful, only me that can be anxious or unhappy or depressed. Me is the cause and the effects are these concepts or ideas.

Stay with the cause and see that the cause is just that life essence, then the effects will drop away themselves. And I'll be just what I am, that presence-awareness. And life can be lived free of all that conceptualising, that fear, anxiety, guilt and stress or whatever. So that's what needs to be looked at and see that the person is not reality. It's just a conceptual image. And this reality that I am is that transient, never-changing, vibrating life. As Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. Not the word or the sense of presence, but the life that's there, the beingness, the knowingness, the lovingness that's there without appearing in that sense of presence.

The me is the cause of all the psychological suffering. Only me can be fearful. Only me can be unhappy, depressed or guilty or shameful. Now if I look into that me and see me is a fiction and see without taking the affection, without seeing the affection is a fiction and dropping the cause me, I am left with what is. And what is is not what was. It's not what will be. Just as it actually is right in this moment. And ask yourself that's what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it. And you'll see without that thought I can't say it's good, can't say it's bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad.

It just is. And that is-ness constantly changes. I don't know what my next thought will be but the thought will come up. I Am the Way, I Am the Truth, I Am the Life. And that's basically what it's all about. So there are a lot of you here who have been coming here a while and recognise what's being said and knowing it and can pass it on to others. And the others haven't quite seen it yet and might have questions and doubts, but the fact that you're here is the fact that you're not happy with the way things are going. There's got to be more to it than the belief that you are a sinner, you're a bad or evil person and you should become this and become that.

Because becoming, being can never be becoming. Being is pure being. You call yourself a human being right now. And becoming implies a future time. You call God the Supreme Being. So you've got this two words, human being and human being. Take away those two labels human and take away the label supreme Try and separate the beingness without becoming I am already that, that's all I need to do, is relax and settle down into it, being, knowing and loving. And see if that works. Look into it, try it and test it out. And others will tell you it does, when you look into it. So that's what I'm all about.

And it's up to you to ask questions. And that's what needs to happen. Tell us about it or ask questions. But keep it going along that vein so others might resonate it, hear it, and impart it. And it might dawn on you if you haven't done so already that it is so. But if you don't take it away in real, it might take a while to find it. What you are is that presence-awareness. That awareness is right with you presently, right now. And isn't that so? Anyone who's not aware of being present right now, and you say, yes, I'm aware of being present, well take it to heart and be it.

So away you go. Get into it. Get hosted and tell us what to do. Good morning Bob, Kat and all and Elisa. Always great to listen to Bob. His song is like music for the ears and the heart. And thank you for your beautiful song and yes this is the time where we invite anyone and everyone to actually focus on what is, like Bob said, experienced directly. We can indirectly experience through the mind, through the imagination, we can experience other locations as a mental image. We can experience other time, yesterday or tomorrow or thousand years, through the imagination, through the mental imaging. But without the faculty of the mind, the direct experience is ever-present.

Without mental image you can't even say what you are, but you can't deny that you are. And that you are is precisely the great mantra of Maha-Vakya, that you are. Everyone already knows that they are. We overlook it because of the habitual vantage point or viewpoint from the conceptualization or objectifying symbolic language, which can't objectify or grasp that pure awareness, that aliveness. So it is about relaxing out of that habitual perspective of the imagined self that is there and it needs to get somewhere or understand something or become someone. Relax out of that habitual self, habitual image of the self and see what you know directly.

It won't be much things to be known and it is one that is undeniable, that fact of aliveness, of presence. But it's usually something standing in the way, the ideas. So those ideas we can just look at and laugh at them, because laughter is the best exorcism. But of course if there is suffering coming up, we don't laugh at that. www.nisargad.com.pl It's obvious. But something might be filtered through the mind and, oh, I agree with that, or I don't agree with that, or I don't believe it, I'll think about it later. And some might just really land. Yes, of course. I'm not unaware. So if there is anything that landed...

Loki, did you hear something? Yeah, actually whilst I was listening to Bob, I was, I think maybe on Friday afternoon, I kind of got into a heated discussion, you would call it, with someone. And it funny how obviously when you in one of these discussions you just completely identified with thought And it like I am this thought and I must defend this thought as though it was myself And the thing is, and it was perfectly friendly, but you know, you have these discussions and then that energy kind of stays in your body or in your system. And as I was sitting here, I could feel this same discussion replaying in my mind.

And I was kind of losing myself in the spiel. And then I can't remember what, but I think when Bob was talking about, you know, you learn words and then you mistake yourself for the words. And it just reminded me to ask myself who, you know, who is having, who is defending this thought or who is, and as soon as you stop, or as soon as I stopped to look, It's like you've stepped out of the river and the river is still flowing, but you see it just for what it is and It's utter relief because you're like, oh, that's right. This is just thoughts and the thoughts are just flowing along and You see them for what they are and then there's just I I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the universe.

I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the universe. Your life depended on it. Yeah, and it's just a beautiful space to sit and observe, and nothing changes, but it's... Yeah, I don't know what else to say about it. That is actually really beautiful. That's beautiful. The metaphor of really stepping out of that river, or stepping out of the train of thought, The whole attention being completely taken by that narrative, which is a mechanical, it's a part of functioning. It's kind of part of a survival pattern that you do want to have social respect in a way and that gets dysregulated and it goes viral.

And it's just going on autopilot. And now you actually just kind of relax part of the attention. You are out of that river and you see it flow. It still goes by inertia. It's a mechanical pattern that you can actually, from the point of freedom... Yeah, it's freedom. It's lovely. So, thanks Bob. Yeah, beautiful. What else did you want to say for me? No. Yes. Yeah, when Kat asked that question of what resonates for me, It came up there, the word being, more in the last couple of weeks for me. The animals do that actually a lot. They just eat, sitting and being. I used to be, or maybe I still am, but at the moment I'm not so much active doing things.

I do actually feel like I'm very active in doing things, but at the same time when I'm doing these things I'm being more. I noticed that and there's much more content online I'm not interested to take in anymore. I just realised, oh I don't actually want that, like, okay what should I do? Oh, maybe I just do nothing. And just watch more the thought and like, oh can I just be for this hour? Or when I'm driving the car, sometimes it's like, oh it's just being, it's so much more present. Sometimes I don't need to listen to music, it's just literally that driving is so relaxing.

It doesn't matter if there's a traffic jam or not, because the longer the travel, the more I can be. It feels like, because before I start doing a job or work, so I find it quite comfortable now, rather than before I find it more uncomfortable. I'm like, oh, I need to do something. It might be boring or something. Yeah, that's... That's amazing. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's amazing. You can see even that habit of running away from boredom is completely mind-based. It is always leaving a moment ahead, what's going to happen in the future. Because this moment as it is, even if nothing's going on, there is nothing wrong.

Unless that narrative will tell you, oh shit, it's going to get worse, I'm going to get bored. And then it's following that stream of thinking. While if you actually relax and find and this is beautiful find the

Delight in being. That is kind of heart-centered life rather than the head-centered. You know, when you don't, actually the attention doesn't follow every piece of entertainment, but it actually really anchors itself and it just explores and it delights in this, in this unfolding ever-fresh presence. Delights in being. Yeah, it is interesting because my mind is still planning things. Of course. And doing things, oh that would be good, that would be good, much more money than before, but then once this is sorted, it feels more being.

It's sort of interesting when it's like, oh, but then even though I don't know, yesterday I didn't know what should I do, the course I've done, finished early, I should have drove home and then somehow I just like, I just be more being and then literally I make decisions. I would usually drive home and I'm like, I don't feel like driving home. Do I need to drive home? Do I need to have a reason to stay here and drive to the beach and sit in the car? Oh, I don't need a reason. I could just do it because it feels like, okay. So the mind just goes, the logical thing puts a bit more away.

And I realize, oh, it's actually really nice. And then I start walking somewhere there and it's like, oh, that's pretty cool. I realized that not too much plant, more on the being, so that I'm realizing that being doesn't need to be plant or thought. And I realized noticing that it's much more pleasant even I'm by myself doing this thing. More childlike, isn't it? Yeah, much more childlike. Jesus said, you know, unless you become like a children you won't enter that kingdom of heaven. If you are a slave to your mind, that is suffering. But if you are open to whatever comes up, whatever arises in the moment, life is a joy.

And so that being then felt like, oh it is more about the being and the action is less important, rather than if you are in the mind, the action is more important than the being. It may come after, but may not. Beautiful. And then see how the being is actually prioritized now. It is primary. The content of being is secondary. It's just like if you translate it to the sense of seeing. The seeing is primary, the miracle of actually being capable of seeing, the capability, capacity. It's incredible what is in the content of it, whether it is a room or it's a beach or it's a forest, that's secondary.

If you actually put your heart into that essence of being, same with consciousness, being actually alive, being radiantly alive, present, what an incredible thing. But from the mind perspective, that's nothing. It's just, come on, give me some entertainment, let's talk about what happened or what can go wrong. It's just completely overlooking that mystery. And I have a question here from Wendy and Alvaro says much love to everyone and Wendy says is there suffering in the present or is it thought? Well that you know usually begs the question of the definitions because you know if you think of a suffering as any form of pain then yes you can observe in nature that pain can be experienced in the moment.

If you take suffering to be resistance to pain, which is the narrative, oh, this pain shouldn't be there, why is it happening to me, or is it going to get worse, which is usually what we habitually define as suffering. Pain is inevitable, it's just part of the appearance, just like light and dark. If there wasn't the opposite, if there was no darkness, there would be no light. The The magpie or the cat will not dwell in the ideas that God doesn't love me or life is against me. It's just they don't have symbolic language, they don't have that layer. Only humans make themselves psychologically suffering through believing the narrative to be this is me, this is I.

While you're not your narrative, you're the presence in which it arises. I don't know if that answers the question. If not, just please specify. And Charles says to Wendy, become aware in the moment and you will answer your question. That's beautiful, Charles. That's beautiful. That's the ultimate answer. Don't believe anyone. Don't believe what anyone is saying, even Bob. Verify Check it Just take it to heart and check if that true because he only pointing But you have to look where he pointing and check for yourself And Wendy says, wow, thank you. Amazing. Yes. Okay. Anyone? Dee. Thank you, Bob. I just went back to when I first started listening to Bob talking on the Zoom meetings and stuff and how I was just in that psychological pain.

What is he talking about? Like what is going on? And I wanted to understand, I really wanted to understand. And it took months of just listening and taking it in and being so, oh, what is this about? Why can't I get it? You know, I really wanted to get it. And then one day I got it. And then I thought, that is still the mind. You know, the mind is so tricky. I got it. You know, and it just made me realize how our thoughts create this whole world around us. And I heard, can I tell a little story? I heard this story that really emphasizes how our mind works.

And it was about, Bob might have heard this before, and it was about this guy. His lawnmower broke down and his wife said to him, why don't you go down the street to John's place and ask him can you borrow his lawnmower? You heard this? Yeah? It might be the Jack story, go for it. Okay. It's a good story. And okay, he says okay, I'll go down there and ask him. And on the way down he's thinking to himself, Hello, welcome. I'm Linda Mithun. Some of you probably don't know me, but they're the same age as me, and really, I'm the daughter of that boy.

Jack's from England, and he gives me all kinds of advice on my personality, I am a We also have a very important point that we need to take into consideration in our work. We have to understand that we are not there, and we have to extend that even further than we think. A lot of things are just created, and they are just not there. That's beautiful. And I just wanted to quickly highlight what you said, that's really, really important what you said. I have it, or I've lost it, or I had it, or I got it, or I am enlightened now. This is always a narrative because the truth is much, much, much simpler than I having something in opposition to others not having it.

It's much, much simpler. It's so simple, so obvious. Suddenly the I that wants to get something, that longs for something, that seeks something, suddenly that I, when the attention relaxes out of it, is seen for what it is. It's just a smoke and mirrors and it collapse. And in the absence of I, who is there to get anything? There's no one to get anything. There have never been anyone. I Am This The awakening is from the imagination of being a separate self. But there is no one who awakens, because it is the realization that that self is like, you know, the child is realizing that Santa Claus is just a story and this guy is a dressed up guy, there is no one there.

I am not leaving in Norway or go through the funnels or fly on the reindeers. None of that is true. It still appears, he still looks like wearing a beard or something. So it still appears as there is some agency there that makes choices and takes decisions. It appears this way. But then you actually see that this is just life spontaneously unfolding according to the way the body was programmed. All of this is programmed. The preferences are programmed. Musical preferences are programmed. Responses, everything is just unfolding as it should without any need to create any middleman who takes credit for it. There is no one awakened then anymore It just a pure lucid consciousness in which the body appears thoughts feelings preferences all of it just appears and disappears And that is the block isn it That the block to our awareness Yeah, it's just...

It's so tricky, the mind is so tricky, that's what I realized, you know, like, yeah, it just amazed me when I, you know, how it's all evolved, it's just amazing. Hello, pleasure and honor to be here. So curious about the experience of your resonating in your awareness and your car outside and And you know that it's the car, truck, whatever. The transition into distinguishing it, that's where there's a space. There's a space in which we are resonating in our awareness and we distinguish that it's That's like a space before we start distinguishing anything, thought, whatever it may be. And you mentioned relaxing into it. And I've never heard that before.

Because that's where it is, right? Coming from that place and being in the space of... Is it communicating? You are that space, you are that field of consciousness. Yes, but we can see that the mind wants to distinguish certain things, but there is a space in between that where the mind starts its process, thinking, distinguishing, whatever. And so you mentioned relaxing into it, and I will take that on for sure, but it is quite beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, it is really, Bob has another beautiful pointer. I mean, he never, and I love that he never tells people what to do, what to practice, and how to become what they already are.

But another pointer, relaxing, is one pointer of nondoing, and another one, leave everything as it is. The mind is labeling things, yeah, whatever. Whatever, the stomach is digesting, eh, whatever, the hair are growing, whatever, just leave everything as it is because what you are in essence is that open field of presence, awareness or consciousness in which everything happens. Mind happens within you. Of course the imagined self happens within the mind one could say. But the narrative happens within that field of consciousness. The cars happen within that field of consciousness. So you are the field of consciousness and the whole world happens within you. And that takes really relaxing the boundaries which again the mind habitually assumes the boundary of the skin for survival.

It's very practical, it's wonderful. I mean you wouldn't want to hit the tree as you walk. That's fantastic skill. But identifying that this is I, this is who I am, the boundary of the skin and bodies of my identity, is what causes suffering. If you really relax identification, and now you are present, that is undeniable. The presence is something that we can't stop. You can't stop being present or stop existing. But existing as a thing, either mental image inside the head or inside the heart, or as the body or as the mind, that's unnecessary. That's just what causes the separation. I am here and the world is out there.

Without that thought, there is a consciousness and both this body and all the others appear within that. I am this conscious awareness and everything appears within. Mind chatting. But yeah, leave it as it is, don't worry, just stay relaxed as space. Space is completely relaxed, unconditionally allowing everything to arise and subside. It doesn't even allow, it's unconcerned. But yeah, awareness is like a potentiality for the consciousness. Consciousness can also be aware of the objects that appearing. Whichever life is experiencing at the moment, plain awareness with all the sensory inputs switched off for the sleep or whatever, or is aware of the content. That's perfect either way, it's up to life.

It's amazing also, I love that pointer that Bob uses. It is just so tremendously helpful when he says, as in nature, this is called natural state, as in nature, as every tree, every animal, every whale and bird is experiencing the awake presence without any need to interpret. They still function they still find the food they keep their commitments they bring their youngs Or they don Humans don even more So it is just really relaxing into that life of sky space awareness and just trusting that if the thought is required, the thought will come up. If the planning thought is required, it will come up. Another word for relaxing is thought-free.

Thought-free, ever-fresh, presence-awareness. Let the thought be free. Or another term they use is detach. Just detach from things. Let things be as they are. What is, not what was or what will be. Just as it is. And thought-free doesn't mean thoughtless. It means thoughts are free to flow through. Without just being attended or if there is a necessity or urge to attend the thought, well that happens. I'll just relax into it then. Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it because I've had a really good experience of learning to relax into things in the last month just because of the intensity of the whole thing.

I Am Nisargad, I Am the One. That's what I found is that things just unfolded naturally in a really amazing way and that I couldn't have planned for anyway. All my perceived ideas of safety and precaution, the body took care of. I didn't need my mind to do that. I mean if you just take into consideration some of the places I went to and if I had have thought about it, There would have been a large level of anxiety which wouldn't have helped the situation but your body takes care of it anyway. And just circumstances, the more I let them unfold, just unfolded perfectly. The right people came at the right time and even when they didn't that led to something else.

Ia Chana Amarachiyaraj, Ia Anjana Chahari, Iam Ustana Murangyur, Ia Mthunhyalad, Ia Munmahana Guru, Ia Mthunhyalad, Ia Bhuvakya, Ia Mthunhyalad. Ia Shrithu Chhatra, Ia Chaitanya, Ia Saritha, Shri Dharamani, Ia Mahavad, Ia Vipa, Ia Gita, Ia Sunita, Ia Chaitanya, Ia Manjapur, Ia Mthua, Ia Mthua, Ia Narayani. I was in a place where you just have to say by the grace of God or go I or whatever and as soon as I let go of the fact that I had no control, I just felt the wind, I saw, like I just went into the body, the sensations and then it didn't matter whether anything happened or not. There was nothing to happen, nothing to do, nothing.

It was just like being in the river and not needing to necessarily swim to the shore. It felt almost like if you swim to the shore, you swim to a thought and then you would try to grab onto the shore and hold on while the river is trying to keep you going. So you just... Let it carry you. So don't even bother swimming to the shore, just let it just take you with it. But yeah, one of that was one of the biggest lessons, just to just relax into whatever is happening right now. That was just really...yeah, so...yeah, there's other things, I can't think of them at the moment.

I love the way you actually pointed out, you know, that you are in danger, you're hanging off the wall or something. Yeah. Who knows, you know, like if the anxiety was there, you would probably... probably debilitate your capacities. But you said you shifted the attention right from that into feeling the wind on your face. How beautifully practical. Just sniffing the smell of the wind or just feeling a touch. I was just, there's things like, we're so used to things like rules, regulations, safety barriers, you know, can do this, can't do that. And there's a place for that in the mind, for sure. However, in reality, there's no safety barriers.

There's none of that. It's a perceived safety and you know maybe if everybody follows the rules but people often don't and they can't and it's just it's it's so much is just not in your

control you know where you're you know hundreds of meters off the ground there's no safety barrier well your your body is not going to jump unless it does but you know it's possible but generally speaking you will be but your awareness is is so in the moment that it just really brings you into You can't just go into that space and then you sort of go through the thought and it's just awareness.

There's nothing to think about. What's there to think about? There's nothing to think about. But it's true though that there's thought when you need it, like I have to make a phone call, change a flight, or stuff like that. But you don't have to think about it. Once it's popped in there, you just do it. And then you make the phone call or you don't, or you walk out the door or you don't, or if you're hungry you go and eat. But it's just, yeah, it was... You have to... There's a lot less thinking required than you think there is. This is brilliantly said. A lot less thinking required than you think there is.

Exactly. Absolutely, yeah, beautiful. Probably connected to the idea of the way we feel that we're in control, but actually, no. In the past, especially, I've found that a puzzle for me in terms of suffering was, I suppose, witnessing injustice. And, of course, these days you only have to turn on the news and it's like one injustice after another. I found that a kind of a stubborn, you know, the contraction as if we are moral agents, we have to do something or, you know, it's offensive to us. This person shouldn't be doing that and these people are suffering as a result of that. And I think that recognizing the open space, the cognizing intelligence and so on, is I suppose to acknowledge also that what the self, what the separate self might regard as injustice is also a natural phenomenon.

Absolutely. And that's a bit of a challenge, I think. I found it a challenge having been conditioned as a moral agent. And, you know, I'm not sure whether anybody else has noticed that, but that's it. It's one thing to be in like a heated discussion, as the first comment was, about something intellectual. And you can recognize that, but when it's a moral issue, you feel, no, this is real, I have to, you know. But also that is, it's, yeah, again, it's a perspective of a self which doesn't exist, as it were. And it also is a part of like, you know, we are tribal creatures.

It is part of necessary social conditioning for survival of the pack. You know, if we weren't value-oriented, the equality, the justice, the goodness, the altruism, if we didn't have deeply installed love for those values, we wouldn't be able to live as pack animals, as, you know, as a society. It is an intelligent program and it is so beautiful because it really you see injustice and your heart is screaming you are experiencing like real resistance, anger, hatred, even violence you want to do something about it and that's actually self-regulating pattern in the society but you may also experience the other side of that the compassion the heart going out to them And from that constructive action can come.

And either way, life regulates through the both duality. You can have, you know, like I sometimes we have few friends who are subscribing to some conspiracy theories and occasionally someone brings a conspiracy theory that, oh, you know, someone put some chop off the kidneys of little children in the pizzeria's basement and, you know, There was a father who went to that pizzeria and shoot everyone there. They found there was no basement, so the whole story was bogus. But when you hear that sort of an idea, I say, well, if that's true, fantastic. I just hope that Putin will push the button and that will be the end of us That is the way for me to just shut down the conspiracy Oh no no I don feel like this I feel that something should be done I feel we all should be angry and we should all shoot everyone along.

It's belief systems, the ideas of justice or injustice are still belief-based and they are extreme and the whole mind is wired to look out for dangers Because that's the only way to ensure survival. So something that is so dysregulating will get a lot of attention and will feel so true. Will fill in your guts. I think one thing I've found myself doing also is instead of looking out, you can kind of almost celebrate that you've got the ability to recognize injustice. And stay with that. And accept it. Because you can't do anything about what's happening on the other side of the world. And the truth is there can't be justice.

Justice is a beautiful, beautiful idea but it's completely impossible. It's impossible. Like, you know, justice to which extent? If you think of kangaroos living in a bush, justice towards the kangaroos would be equal size. The The Transitions or forests or other planets. That's the worst one for me. There you go, yeah. To animals. And nothing is wrong from life's perspective. Because it is like, you know, horrible things are happening in the nightmares too. And they feel so real. And from life's perspective it is all experiencing and expression. And the fact that we respond to it, you know, to the climate devastation or the maltreating of animals or, you know, wars or anything, that's just part of life also.

It gives us that responsiveness, that compassion. Rob. So, first of all, where did the stick come from? Good one, eh? I'm thinking a couple of pointers that were really powerful when I started was the idea of where the thoughts come from. We can't say where our next thought's going to come from. So I went looking for it, couldn't find anywhere it came from. So that sort of sent me a bit sideways. But then the next one that came up was, as a thought first arises, does it have any power? And so I investigated that. Didn't seem like it did. So then when I started to get into the stories, like you were saying about the lawnmower, you know, I've got to go and borrow this lawnmower and this bloke doesn't like me, It's sort of became then a matter of remembering that, oh, that's just a thought.

I'm going to go and borrow this lawnmower. I don't care what that thought says, in a sense. Or I'm going to go and ask whether, who cares whether he says no. It's like, if you don't ask, you don't get, sort of approach. So that idea of remembering, I think, is sort of, and every now and again I forget. I am not a person who is completely independent. Yeah, whatever it is in the moment. That's beautiful. And that's just such an important pointer which also Bob highlights never enough. That thought is not the problem It the belief the investment in the thought the identification Because the thought may often say Oh this is I I am going so it feels personal So the thought is neutral, it's completely neutral.

Like people sometimes say, Oh, this is so powerful, that thought is so powerful. But what is the power behind the thought? It's the belief. It's the same life essence appearing as a belief. So now if the thought comes up, oh I'm unlovable, I'm absolute loser, I'm a failure. And if there is a belief in that thought, there may be a suicidal action happening. But if this is just a thought and there is no investment, no belief, and the idea that this I in the thought is just another word and not my identity, not my presence, my very, this most intimate sense of existence, Which often gets hijacked by the idea of I.

I, this is I, this is my presence. While the I appears within that presence, not the presence within the I. Believe in thought and it can also be questioned. And I love how you use the example of the lawnmower. You can see like, really, this is such a great illustration. The thought arises and it means nothing. And then suddenly it just builds up the memory, the attention, attention or belief is one essence. We use different words, but awareness, attention, consciousness, belief, this is all is one essence. Even we have a book, we have few books there if anyone wants to look through, a book called One Essence, Appearing, Experiencing and Expressing as Everything.

It is one, that's why we call it nonduality, one essence. It's the same one essence beating your heart, the same one essence showing up as a thought and as a belief in the thought, as everything, as the ten thousand things. But the source, you can't really trace it because it's no thing. It is alive, it's radiant, but it isn't a thing. So the mind can never encapsulate or grasp what's the source of anything at all Because mind objectifies, mind labels things and that's not a thing. It's not nothing either. For the mind it's nothing, but it's not nothing. It's the radiant source of life and everything.

See if we have any comments? No? Anyone? Mitra? No one else. You. I just wanted to start a question, I mean maybe I'm open to comments, but because you talked about injustice and I've been very sensitive also from when I was a child and you're talking about it. It's very hard to see the injustice in the world, but it has become one of my biggest motivations to wake up, Because I just realized that until this duality is going on in every single being, this will be the story that we will witness. And maybe if we come out of it, like I personally wake up and really that one being become very established you know then that would be the best I can do for the world yeah that would be the best contribution to just come out of that insanity and not to contribute that and I've heard from you know others as well that that would be a contribution that's the only thing I am motivated to do like some people go and I think every single one coming out of that duality would help the whole life.

And maybe then there is no need for life to keep showing us that injustice. That's my theory. I'm open to hear your comment. Maybe I haven't even explained it well. No, it's beautiful. No, it's beautiful. It's just, you know, you may realize that even labeling it as injustice is just a not appropriate label. Because that label injustice is again socially conditioned label and there is greater injustice if it appears to nations than to individuals. But is it really? I mean one abused child by being neglected for half a day by the mother leaving the room could be much more severely traumatized. nation or any individual in a nation there is no order of injustice or order in suffering.

Suffering can be complete and absolute in the minutest expression of it So even just having that idea that the fact that injustice is happening to the The I also wanted to say that I think it's much better as nothing because you know it's all that mind stuff which categorizes the whole injustice. Oh, there is a war or there are children suffering there. Yes, that is we are conditioned naturally to respond much much more emotionally than we are responding to you know, virus, kill the virus, come on, cancer, kill the cancer, come on. You know, and this, when you realize, when you step out and you realize that those are the stories that we tell ourselves.

And it's much, much more basic and prior to any stories. You know, the heart going out and experiencing suffering doesn't have to be limited to a suffering of a particular setting, a whale, for example, or a child, or an army. It can be just like the freedom of experiencing the polarity of life in every aspect of it. You can take a leaf of a plant and you can experience the fullness of life in that. Fullness meaning polarity, meaning both darkness and light, the beauty and ugliness, all of it. And having that capacity to process that fullness of life. The idea that there shouldn't be a winter, nobody should ever be cold, or nobody should ever be sick.

If there was no winter, there would be no season. If there would be no sickness, there would be no health. That embracement of the fact that suffering is like physical pain, is part of life. And it will continually be a part of life. You'll continually have whatever, you know, you may injure yourself or you may, the body will eventually get old and will start falling apart, will eventually even die. You know, dying daily, that's a good practice too. Anyone and anything that ever suffered, we have projection of what they're going through. But, you know, you can only imagine. But if you actually dive to the bottom of your own heart, the bottom of your own moment of absolute suffering, then you will realize that this is as present and as alive as anything.

And it doesn't have to go away, it doesn't have to extinguish. Being present without resistance to the suffering that arises, you realize that that possibility is there for everyone. Apparently, there was research done, of course science is another religion, it's another belief system, but it may be helpful for the mind. Research done on people who were experiencing this traumatizing warfare, where they would be losing arms and legs on the field, or eyes, or whatever. They experienced no pain. If they die of the wounds, they experience no pain. The body might scream, but the way the brain is wired, The pain only comes when the danger of losing life is gone.

Only then. You know, when the soldier goes to the hospital, has been given all the first aid, now it kicks into a consciousness. Before, the body may still scream, but there is no conscious awareness of that. The whole adrenaline kicks in and it's like boxers fighting. There is no awareness of pain. So majority of the compassionate approach to whatever is happening to someone else is imagined and projected. And we don't take into the consideration the fact that there is completely different hormonal response in the body. I remember I had few accidents myself on motorbike or whatever. There is no pain in the moment of accident.

The pain of healing that may be really intense. If you reflect on your own life, you will see even pain of whatever, the abuse. Everyone can, especially in the spiritual circle or circus, whatever, especially here, relate to pain because what else would motivate us to look for answers? We've been through pains and every pain, if you really dive deeply, is absolute. It's not that, oh, I felt nothing. They feel more. You don't know that. But that's the freedom, if you can find the freedom. You are the consciousness, you are the field. So you know they find it too. And cherish your compassionate heart. Thank you Kat.

And thank you, thank you everyone.