Effortless Perfection. Sailor Bob and friends - nonduality explorations. 9 Sept 2024

Yosef, Brandy, Gabriel, David, Rina, Mark, Kim, Ron, Nelson, Loki, Jim, Ross, Peter, Hema, Dane, Mitra, and Bob. And we get to open these ears. Off you go. Morning everyone. Good morning. Good to see you all. And you all know what it's all about. Still about the same old, same old. Nonduality meaning one without a second, not two. And very few of us take notice of that and recognise that that is all there is. Absolute and only, nothing other than that. And we've all heard it before, because the great mantra here is I Am That, pointing out I Am the One, I Am the One. Because if you didn't have any words, how would you be able to remember it?

Or say you were a man? And we didn't pick up words until we were a couple of years old. When our parents fussing around us speaking, and we're hearing them, and the capacity of raising and developing, we learn words. But we never ever notice that the word is not the thing. Take the word water, try and drink the word. Take the word fire, try and cook with it. And lots of other words, what's this I or me? It's just believed in person or human, what we call a human being. More words, we've got the label human being. And we also believe, taken on the belief that there is a supreme being, words.

But look at the words, you see the words not the thing. You can't drink the word water, you can't cook with it. So the word I and me is not what I am. And I tell you that also. Point out that in the end of the scripture they call it thatchit and the end of it nama rupa. Existence, consciousness, bliss, name and form. And when you look into that and investigate it, are you existing right now? You know what that word is pointing to, the livingness, the beingness that you are. Thank you. The word is never the real. And we take the word to be real and get caught up with the word.

And as I say, we learn words, take ourselves to be so-called human beings, but take that I am the only one who can understand the word human. I am the only one who can understand the word human And try and stop me And try and stop me Do you disappear without the word You don't disappear without the word. But with the word it doesn't make any difference either. Just a label we put on ourselves. Which we break down into I or Me. The word I. What they call the self-centre, the reference point, or the ego. And what is that I without the label? It is the pure being, the pure consciousness, the pureness-awareness.

As they say, existence, consciousness, bliss is what they label it. Anyone who is not existing right now, and you will know for certain, know I'm existing. Anyone who is unconscious, you're not unconscious, so you must be conscious or aware. And anyone who is not happy to be, well nobody wants to be dead right now. So what are you seeking when you're trying to become this Sat Chittananda? When you see it is already so. That's why they say the search itself becomes the problem. One non-dual, one without a second, not two. That must mean everything is equal. I Am. And Shakespeare told you that also a couple of hundred years ago and he said, nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

And you look into that too, you'll see that's the fact. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Well, can I say it's good? Can I say it's bad or happy or what? Without a thought? I can't. Or another term they put on it is awareness. And I'll tell you that the awareness of being is the blissful state. Not the thinking about it, the one, but being the actual knowing of it, awareness of it. So that's what they're pointing to. Nondual, not two. And to investigate and see if it's two. Am I this body? I am this person. Person is another word.

The mind comes from persona, the mask. Am I this body? Well, I say my body. If I say my body, there must be something that has the body. My mind. Same thing there. But what am I? Christ tells you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself, but he wasn't. He was talking about that sense of presence that expresses through the mind as the thought, I am. That is the way to go, with that thought, the truth of that and the life that it's representing. Or another word for that is being, knowing and loving to be.

These are all words or labels we put on that which has no pattern, shape or form. Where does it all begin? Well, I tell you that it is the basic space of phenomena. The base of everything is space. Everything is in that basic space. Space is no thing. And the definition of reality is that which never changes. What is it in this manifestation or cosmos that never changes? Well the only thing that never changes is space Can you find a beginning to space You can You can find a centre to it you can or a circumference Space is no thing Yet, everything appears in space.

So when they're talking about the basic space of phenomena, look into that and see for yourself. Is there anything you can postulate or think of outside of space? What would it be in? We put the division and separation into space. This is no thing, not nothing. People will try and tell you to point out it's nothing. Zero, zilch. Well nihilism, it's not nothing. It is no thing. It means it's got no pattern, no shape, no form. Now all this manifestation are the content of space. Now that means they are adornments of space. They're not the space itself, they only appear as something. A manifestation is that which appears to be.

It is not the reality. The reality is, I say, is that which never changes. Now, I, this body, when I say body, will have a look. What's the body made up of? Made up of elements. Here, earth, fire, water, space. Take the air out of your body, see how long it lasts. Take the fire, the body temperature. Take the water. Get off the earth, get out of space. You realise you can't separate yourself from those elements. And all those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles. What about mind? We say, my mind. Show me your mind. Is there such a thing as mind, apart from thought?

And if mind is thought, the primary thought is I am. You would be that thought. But you know you're not that thought because you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. You'd be frightened of losing it if you were the thought. But you gladly give it up. So you are not the thought. So this me or I is just another word, just another concept. It tells you that in the Bible in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word was God. That's all that God is, is a word, a label. All things were made by him, by the word.

And there wasn't anything made that was made. Finding out that all these words we've picked up from our parents we take to be real and believe and take the bad word to be real and suffer because of the word. For it's only me can be unhappy, only me can be fearful or anxious, depressed or guilty. Me is the cause of all my psychological problems. And the fear, the anger, the jealousy, the envy, all these psychological problems are the effects of the cause. Cause and effect. What do they say cause and effect is? They tell you it's karma, cause and effect. Well, what if I haven't looked into it and investigate this cause me and see it's just a conceptual image that has no spontaneous, no functioning, no life of its own.

And if that's the cause of the effects and I see that the cause me is a fiction, then ask the simple question, can there be an effect if it's not related to a cause? Well it can't be. So there goes your karma. We put so much belief in it, cause and effect. But again, because it's taken to be real, and appears to be real, and the belief goes into it. Have a look at belief another word we learnt Look up your dictionary and read the definition of belief An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof So you put your belief to that test, see if they'll stand up to it.

I found that it didn't stand up to it. It didn't stand up to it. And again, what do they tell me again in some of the ancient texts? They'll call me, tell me it's absolute or the great perfection. They call it the great perfection in Buddhism, absolute in the Hindu scriptures. What can you add to absolute? You cannot add anything to the absolute. What can you take away? You can't take anything away from absolute. It wouldn't be absolute. But that's what we're doing. We're dividing it and separating it, taking things away from it. So we're not with the truth, we're with the concepts, the image.

They call it, similarly, the great perfection in Buddhism. And they give it to you there in one sentence, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It's that awareness that you are without any of the concepts. What are concepts? Mental constructs? Thought? So, we're going from that point of view of being this entity, being the person. That's why we are in the trouble that we seem to be. The fear, the anxiety, the depression, the guilt, the unhappiness. How does that work? Well something comes up and I like it. And the things we like we want to keep. We don't want to be the opposite and unhappy. The things we like, we want to keep, not realizing that they're going to change.

Everything in this manifestation is constantly transient. Everything is changing right now. You might think that body is right, but it's changing right in this moment. There are thousands of souls dying in it right at this moment. It's all constantly transient, changing. So we don't realize it, no matter how much you love it, We have to understand how much like it or want to keep it. It's going to go. We don't want it to go, we want to keep it there. So what do we do? We resist it. Got to hang on to this and got to get rid of the bad one. So don't you realise it?

Resistance is conflict. Any resistance you are in, you're in conflict. And conflict makes you uneasy. And another term for uneasiness is dis-ease. So there's resistance, conflict and dis-ease going on in us pretty well constantly. What happens then? Well, something comes up that we don't like. What do we do with this one? We don't need to like this. We don't like it, so we try to get rid of this one. In the trying to get rid of it, we resist it. Again, resistance, conflict and disease. That's what our life is made up of. All this constant resistance and conflict that's going on in the mind. Fear, anger, depression, guilt, shame, happiness, all words or concepts are ideas that we've learnt.

And as I said before, the word is not the rule. But what's wrong if you don't think about it? What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Well ask yourself that and have a look. Can I say it's right or wrong or good or bad or pleasant or painful without a thought? I can't. Then you might understand what Shakespeare was getting at a couple hundred years ago when he said, Nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And we're constantly thinking. Now, if I'm not thinking good or bad, blatant or painful, leaving everything as it is, what would be there?

Wouldn't it be equal? And that's the place to be, in that equality, where it is neither good or bad. You go to the South Pole, you won't go any further south. The next step will be north. You go to the North Pole, the next step will be south. But where do they meet? They meet at the equator. There's your clue that everything is equal, but we're not taking it a bit. We're dividing it and constantly in that division. We get the concepts, the words, and with the words come the sensations or the feeling, thought, feeling and emotion. Something will come up and I say I think and have a look at that.

What's your next thought going to be? You can't tell me what your next thought is going to be. But a thought will come up and you say I think. So you say I think. I've formed a concept. I thinker. The thinker is the thought I think. And what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Can I say it's good, blad, bledant, fatal, happy, sad? I can't say anything. The thinker is the thought I think. What about seeing? You say I see. Can the thought or I tell you I see? I doesn't say look at this or look at that, can't say anything.

But the seeing is happening through the eye and it's claimed as the thought I see. The same with I hear, I taste, I touch, I smell. All these things are happening. But instead of the I, which is a word we've learnt when we were little kids and taken to believe ever since, instead of the I, realise there is seeing, thinking, hearing, tasting, feeling, touching, smelling. The ING is the reality, the actuality. The I think, I see is a fiction. It's not true. But with the belief in it we've taken on this conceptual ideas, thoughts and feelings and suffer accordingly. Shakespeare, I've said that before I think anyway, way, way, way tells you why you're unhappy.

Because everything you say, everything you think, and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. Look into that. And then look at that and realise that without the thought, I can't say it is or isn't or anything at all about it but without the thought I haven't disappeared, haven't fall apart, still heart beating, here and fingernails are growing, breathing, living is going on or life. And so as Christ recognized I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life, people thought he was talking about himself. He was talking about it. He was talking about that sense of presence. The same sense of presence that is expressing through you and me and everything else.

That is the way to go. That's the truth. That's the life. Nisargadatta says, stay with the I Am-ness, not the word or the thought, but what it represents. The sense of presence, the awareness of being, the presence that you are. I will leave you to a good time! I have a nice day today, I think. Well, you go, kid. Come on, let's see. Welcome again and welcome those who are online with us. If there's anyone who is here first time, everybody knows Bob. I Katam his partner and we are exploring nonduality the ideas and the experience mainly I am very happy to be diving into the experience and describing how it is like So we have few comments from people who are online with us Love to all, sent Catherine and James and Sandy and John and many people sends love to all, in particular to us some of them.

And JB says, and this is a quote from Tripura, Although a person is familiar with the concept of space, he will attend to objects in space, never noticing space itself. And Anika says, Good morning, listening while driving, sending love and thanks. Tania says, I'm curious if thoughts that seem to be about a me still appear. Chacha Deva. I Am is the difference between the truth and the unwavering, miraculous, radiant existence that is there and that enables that thought to appear. Thought is secondary, it doesn't matter whether it contains I or it doesn't. It happens in the consciousness that you are. It's not talking about you, the I that is contained in the thought is relating to body-mind mechanism that you are aware of.

And John David says, September 8th is the Maha Samadhi of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. There you go. For those who don't know, Nisargadatta Maharaj was Bob's mentor, teacher and dear friend. 9 September in Australia. Big love from Alvaro. Thank you Bob. Great Spiel from JB. That's that for the online contribution. Anyone would like to start the exploration? Tell us how you're going, whether there was something in the Spiel that moved you particularly, resonated. It's always good to reinforce and highlight what's clear, but anyone is welcome also to dive into whatever feels that exploring or clarifying could help if there is a doubt or an argument or something doesn't sit right.

I remember a time when I used to drive a truck down the south coast of New South Wales up to the airport every so often, once a week usually, in the very early morning and pack I am a local resident of the village of Karnataka, in the village of Karnataka. I am a local resident of the village of Karnataka. I am a A bunch of ants just crawling around. They knew nothing of what a truck was or what a human being was, anything like that. I think there's a great analogy to be learnt there. We're like ants really, within the context of our mind, thinking about stuff all the time.

We are looking for solutions, problem solvers. Really the answer of self lies in relaxing and the answer to know who I really am lies in letting go of all my ideas which can't lead me anywhere like an ant. I'm just like an ant in the mind, or an ant's nest if you like. All these frenzied ideas running around, none of which I will have the ability to tell me who I am. It's really just using these notions to pop out somewhere, and I don't know how that happens really for anybody. I have no idea except that if you show up and maybe you can turn the ideas on themselves enough that something happens.

That's all. Beautiful. Terent. Terent. Bob actually points out how we are problem solvers how one of the mind capacities fascinating capacities are just to discover it the solution arrived the thought arised And you can see how you can totally relax into your being and just watch from that sense of relaxation, how if the, you know, bladder need to be emptied, the thought will arise, I need a toilet or the salt will arise, I'm hungry and the cooking will happen. And really everything that happens in life doesn't really need an agency or entity for that to happen. You can just really watch the mind, see how it does solve and the mind, what's the mind?

It's just a narrative. The body solves all the situations through the urges that arise and are interpreted and narrated Translated by Ramiro Zanoncik, It is already preconditioned to turn the attention where the attention is required, to the point of pain or the point of danger. Everything happens effortlessly by itself, automatically. And the narrative comes and takes credit. No, no, this is I. I decided to do that. I solved that problem. I got to patent it or I got to author it. It is just as sweet another capacity of the mind which is very functional, it's very practical. And watching the mind from that perspective reveals that there is nothing wrong, nothing.

Even the most nasty selfish behaviors are just the way the body is conditioned to survive and is conditioned by the environment. There is no one there who has done or is doing anything wrong in that. And that's relaxing too, because the body ultimately, even if the body is hurt or if the body is going to die, it is. But what does it have to do with the consciousness which is aware of all that? And that's nothing wrong. I don't know if there is anyone who's going to comment on that? There you go. See? Great intelligence without any effort. You just discover the fact that... Anita says, good morning dear ones, hey beautiful.

And, oh yeah, that's, that Tanya, we've read that one. Okay, that's where we are. Anyone, any questions? No, yes? No, Mitra doesn't have a question. No, I was just gonna say that, you know, I realize that my questions, I mean, just, I'm not gonna get anything out of them. So that's why, you know, there is no question for now, but I'm just practicing that simple pointer. Right now it's just very very basic like spontaneously like that spontaneous awareness just during the day sitting meditation as many as time that I remember. Very basic. But I just realized that I was trying to understand it through mind.

That's what I realized. I guess I just need to practice more until it reveals itself to me. You may even notice that you don't even do any practicing. That the thought of remembering the spontaneity of awareness happening right now, you didn't bring that thought. This is a very basic thought. It just arises by itself. It is an effortless effort. You can see that you can't even practice because there is no need to practice. If that thought doesn't arise, practice doesn't happen. But that thought will arise if there is a passion or love for the truth or desire which you didn't create either. As you say, it is very basic, you know, like every newborn, the newborn baby without a language, without the idea that there is something to get, and there is someone to get it, is already present, spontaneously present and aware, just like you are.

Yes, and just now, for now, it just feels in the boundaries of my body, so it doesn't really go anywhere beyond me when I just sit and that spontaneous awareness. However I am also aware that when I hear the traffic noise so I can say if it happening within this boundary or outside because the sound is heard so there is no boundary in that sense So all of these are kind of dissolving, but you know, it just... And see what happens, what are the boundaries, how do you experience the boundaries if you don't think about it? I mean, there is no thought and no mental image of the boundaries.

Absolutely. If they are there. Yeah. Like right now, seeing is happening, like emptiness kind of looking. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. But I also see that how sticky are the thoughts and I also realize that there is always an urgency to them, you know? Like pay attention to me. Beautiful realization. Thank you. These are thoughts that are not that sticky, that easy kind of to just let them pass like clouds. And noticing those thoughts, you obviously are not the thought-watching thought, because thought doesn't have eyes, that thought doesn't have any capacity to watch. It's the spontaneous knowing in which the thoughts are happening. So even by that curiosity about the functioning of the mind, about the functioning of that attention moving and attending to thoughts.

Yes. You are already free from it. Yes. Yeah. Free from the identity. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. And the main thing, the answer is not in the mind. It cannot be reinforced more and you seem to have accepted it now, Which is the only step, the only ever step that the mind has to take. This is the only information, the only realization that can be grasped intellectually, so-called. That the mind can actually accept that the answer is not there, give up. Thank you. Anyone? Contribute or I'm here. Hi everyone, first time so just a reflection really on the idea of making an effort or not making an effort.

It's just a reflection about the issue of making effort as you're searching. I know there's a lot of, this is a very widely known debate, if you could call it that. Should you be trying hard to do something or are you already there and no efforts? You know, it's a fairly well-worn sort of issue. Probably everybody knows about that. Personally, I began like formally searching if you like with Vipatna meditation and the ten day courses and in a way it's a big contrast in the sense that there's a voice when you're meditating telling you to work very hard, work as hard as you can, work hard, right?

So it's all about the effort that you're putting in. And it's all about a single focus on the breath or the sensations. So that can be construed as a big contrast with the nondual position. Except that I've been reading Francis Lucille, probably people know the nondual teacher Francis Lucille, and he seems also to really talk about there's no effort, everything's arising and so on. And yet, at certain points he will say that to let go of your personhood requires a great deal of coverage and determination. So, one way of reconciling those two positions, or I'm not sure they need reconciling, but is for me is perhaps the, again it's a word, but inertia.

So the words we've learnt from early childhood exert a kind of force upon us, keeping us from the truth, if you like. Perhaps some effort is needed to resist that inertia and to let go of the words. So maybe that's a way of... it's paradoxical in a way because as I think Rupert Spira says, you're not making new efforts, you're trying to stop making the old efforts. So I'll just put that to you and see what people think. Generally we try not to throw too many names of other teachers, especially those who are alive, and you can pose your questions to them to answer. That just kind of keeps us on the topic, because they all mainly come from the same background, all the religions have the same roots, the same traditions.

It's just that everyone has the specific language and in the language there are differences. And the way Bob is pointing to many people who were studying Nisargadatta for life say he simplified it. He made it so simple that those seeming contradictions are really brought down to one basic question. Okay, if there is an effort, is there anyone who takes the effort or makes the effort? Because if there is no self there, well, effort may happen. But if it doesn't happen to me, well, it is just impersonal sort of a movement. Like the same way you could look out in nature, this is another of beautiful Bob's pointer, where he shows up the animals, you know, they survive winter, or the trees, they grow, the sunflowers move to the sun.

There seem to be an effort, but if there is no one who makes that effort, it's just the nature as one, moving as one. So the person moving as one and go on Julia. I was just going to say something that kind of like kind of chime in on something I heard Bob say earlier about the thinker being the thought. The doer is a thought as well. Right? So there's... I think the ING you're saying being the reality, okay, there's a claiming, but that efforting couldn't happen without that life essence or intelligence energy, and then there's a mind that, or narrative that It jumps in and takes ownership.

That's just a thought too, right? So I think that, there's another one, this claiming and naming, well, that's this identifying. You know what I mean? That is the problem. And when you take a look and you think, well, who has to take this action? Who's the one that's meditating? And then you look and you go, well, I am. What is that? Okay? And then you see, okay, well, it's my pattern, it's my soul. What is the soul? Can you have a soul without a thought? You know, can you find this me without a thought? Doesn't it all exist within thought? you know and when you when you would look at it and you You could see the perfection of just what is and then everything else is just mind caca adding on to it It just doesn't help but it's already perfect Nothing has to be done.

Nobody here to do anything I don't know if I'm making myself clear. All I'm trying to say is I think there's a belief in a thinker, but there's also the belief in the doer. It's the same thing. You know? Anyway. So, I've done Vipassana as well. I've done thirteen courses. I was right into it for a few years. Goenka does, in his very first discourse, he does address the notion of no self, no me, but that's pretty much it. And with a lot of these practices like vipassana, the idea of a me is never really addressed. So there's this constant story of a me that's going to get something and it's going to get somewhere.

There Bhanga and there this stage that stage and there this constant striving towards the next stage which is essentially fundamentally the story of me which is this I Am The urgency of the thoughts. And that's a really good insight to have because the urgency of the thinking, the so-called urgency is the me story. It's that me that's jumping up and saying, pay attention. I want to do this, I want to do that. I want enlightenment. I want to go here, I want to go there, I want to achieve this. I want that. Me, me, me. There's this story that's that. And there's a sense of urgency in that story.

And that's That's where that energetic charge and the thought comes from because the belief in the me is being channeled into those thoughts. And then that affects the physiological component of the body and there's this charge that's arising and there's this sense of, oh, I've got to do this, got to do that. And that's where the suffering and all the rest of it, all the drama plays out from that. So to look back and to actually investigate and see what this me is, is it real, does it have any substance, does it have any independent nature? And then Bob says, Bob throws out these beautiful pointers like what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it, pause a thought.

And then he also talks about quotes from the Bible like I am the way, I am the truth, I I Am the Light, the I Am-ness, looking at what that I Am-ness is. And that I Am-ness is your sense of being, your sense of presence. It's the knowing that you are, which is prior to the story of me. So coming back and recognizing that beingness, that presence, awareness of presence, that Knowing that you are, which is prior to any story, that's where the peace that passeth all understanding arises from. That recognition of that knowing, being, beingness. When you start to really drill down and look at that, then all these practices and all All this stuff that we do to get here and get there, the vipassana, this, that, you know, the whole thing just collapses because it's...

who is going to do any of that? Who is there to achieve or to do any of that? It's gone. It's just... it's like pulling out the card from the deck of... from the house of cards. The whole thing collapses. It's gone. So anyway, I'll drop it there. That's kind of precisely, I suppose, what I felt and why I transitioned to this because I felt moving towards the meditation cushion. I just felt that it was reinforcing the sense of personhood rather than dissipating it. I went to India. I went to the- Give him a mic. I went to Dhammagiri near Mumbai because I was so into this stuff.

And I met these meditators who were doing 60-day courses and they were coming back every year and doing these 45-day courses, 60-day courses. So I was still chickenshit compared to that. I was a relative beginner. But I'm thinking, wow, this is where it's heading. This story of continuous practice, continuous meditation, a continuous journey. And they speak about it so proudly because they're so identified with it. It's a part of their whole sense of being is invested in this story of a me that's a vipassana meditator, that's going to be this enlightened being at some point in time. If I keep doing it, if I keep plugging away at it, if I keep, you know, fighting the good fight, I'll get there one day.

That's the narrative that's going on underneath all of that, right? So you've got to see through all All that bullshit, just pull it out and recognize who is this me that's at the center of this story, that's going to do all this, that's going to achieve all this. Who is this me that's going to do all this and what is there else to achieve? Nothing more to do. Yes, so I wanted to add actually because interestingly enough we have meetings with a few of our friends who, monthly, who pointed out and wrote an article about the dangers of meditation, about psychotic episodes that it may cause when there is a pre-existing condition.

And I did some research asked some chat GPT about some literature and some statistics So yes if there is a very very strong sense of a meditator who is on the edge on the border somewhere it is very easy to see that it isn't something that is just harmless sitting. It may actually have some dangerous side to it. But yes, exactly, to who? The body-mind. The body-mind, which is basically dysregulated, the machine which is not functioning properly. It may just flip it to the other side. Did you want to add something? No, I was just going to add something on to what you were saying about the psychosis being brought on by meditation and all that.

Because as some of you may know, I know a little bit about that, psychosis, and one One way to get out of it is also just to ask who's this queen of the universe? Can you find it? Take a look. And if there's also a willingness to be truthful, that might not be there, but if there's a willingness to investigate and to look, by the way, that same question, I think if you want to have something to do, that would be the only thing, is just to investigate and And then you can take a look and see if you can find the one, because it will achieve the same result, won't it?

Doesn't it quiet the mind? When you ask, when you look, it does, doesn't it? And then you're left with just here without a thought, no problem, no one, and here you are. And that question, I was just going to babble on, I don't need to continue much, but it is a way out of insanity, this same question, who gives a shit? And see, this is a reason and also a reason for the strong preference for the way Bob brings clarity into the topic. Never telling people what to do, never inviting them to sit in one way or another or to think or mantra or do any of that stuff.

That's the responsibility, that's life in action which doesn't really take control of other people's lives. Although I did Vipassana myself and I found it to be incredibly, incredibly challenging. I did, I don't know, four courses and a lot of different Zen sanghas, monasteries and things. And luckily I didn't have a pre-existing mental condition, so it did a lot of good, I think. Bob did meditation as well and the similar and the kundalini and stuff. And that's how life had it. And if the life push someone or put someone into a setting in which they will go psychotic, that's still on life. There is no one who is guilty, did something right or did something wrong.

And yet I still have immense appreciation for the fact that Bob doesn't tell people what to do and how to live their life. And this is here from Tania in the answer to the question about the I being arising. Beautiful Bob and Kat. And I realized the thoughts are not talking about me or to me. I have just been wondering why thoughts about something that is not here appears. Well, the dream is not here. The body is not here, but it appears to be. So just as the body appears to be, the thought about the body appears to be as well. And this is also why I love that group, that community, that Bob, I am very grateful to Bob and that safe space that Bob has created for sharing our own experience.

We don't impose that to anyone else, like Ram was sharing on what Mitra was saying, that the sticky thoughts or the thoughts with the sense of urgency are always about me. That's his experience. It is not to say that this is a general truth. I've experienced over the last couple of years a lot of really urgent thoughts, For example, call the ambulance because Bob's blood pressure was going down the drain. Or, you know, make sure that the doctor gives him meditation time. Really pushy. The thought which was an action. I have also witnessed the urgency in something that if there was a narrative would be translated to a thought in our cuts.

Let's say if you step on its tail, there is a very, very urgent, quick message called meow. Don't try that. No, don't try that. And we also have, but again we are sharing experience. You're totally right, a lot of thoughts with urgency. I remember ten years ago thoughts with great urgency arising on the topic, oh they hate me, or they disrespect me, or they, me, me, me, that was about me. Today the thoughts about urgency in regards to me are laughable, they couldn't be believed. But the action thoughts which require action, they may be narrated while the body is following the urgency or anything that's required.

But we also have the answer to Tanya from John David who says, Look at the beauty of how the intelligence energy worked this statement of yours. Thoughts about something that is not here appears. Thoughts can't grasp awareness which appears as nothing but is very much present and aware. That's beautiful, thank you John. And Bradley says and this is Gilbert was saying something here also and the big wheel keeps turning says Gilbert and Bradley answers proud me keeps on burning, rolling, rolling, rolling down the river. And Gilbert says recognition is spontaneous and effortless. Life itself is spontaneous. And that's another beautiful thing to notice, just noticing, noticing the spontaneity of life, noticing that the effort put in the Vipassana meditation wouldn't have happened if life didn't give you spontaneous urge or thought to take up that effort.

So even that effort is on life because life has created that urge to follow it. And John David says, when effort is needed, effort will appear. When effortless becomes essential, it will assert itself. And that's the quote from Nisargadatta. That's the name that we actually do quote here because it was Bob's teacher and somehow kind of follow down the line. And occasionally we do sleep off the razor's edge and then everybody starts throwing name and talking I'm talking about their favorite teachers and it just kind of gets difficult. But yeah, Nisargadatta's exemption. And then Bradley says, Mee effort, I am is earnest. Yeah, that was another contradiction with that earnestness idea.

The earnestness is also something that arise, that something that you find there. All the, you know, the longing for the truth, something that you find is there. And translating that, oh, that's a proof that there is a me. That's why there is seeking happening, because there is a me. Well, it appears to be, but it isn't ever. It has never been real, it can't be. But it is nice to actually see how that appearance of the me comes from the wrong assumption. And when that assumption is already in the system, the so-called, the psychological phenomenon called confirmation bias looks for proof. But if you actually look and you see there isn't anyone there, and now you employ the same pattern of confirmation bias, and when I say you employ, I don't suggest that there is anyone who can consciously do it.

It is all about the resonation, it is all about recognition and the resonation may spontaneously call for that same wavelength reflected in your system. Ah, right, and that's called inspiration. Bob sometimes brings up the inspire meaning in spirit, the breathing in the idea and that idea, ah, yeah, that's inspiring. Let's see, if there is no one there, how is the life gonna look? How is the seeing gonna look? How is the movement of attention gonna be? Spontaneous and effortless. I don't know my next thought. I don't know where am I gonna gaze next. I don't know how am I gonna respond to the next situation.

Okay, but if there is no one there, life will do it. Life will work out how to wave the hands or do anything that's required. If that assumption or presumption resonates in looking how it actually explains, even though no explanation is really required, life is a mystery and it can't be really explained, but even though it isn't required, how that absence of self and the effortlessness of life responding to the environment from which it isn't separate, actually brings the fuller picture of the world. I remember that was Toni who said once that she heard Bob only once. She came back from New Zealand and she Google enlightened guys and she only heard once the idea that there is no self and she said shit You know could that be true and she looked at the world and retranslated the whole universe Making that idea of me of that little image of self or the little human little dwarf They're completely redundant and it clicked straight away like wow.

Yeah Well, the anxieties are still showing up the insecurities are still showing up and so they are in any other creatures But if they are not mine, what the problem do I have with it? That's just what arises. They're not personal. And that makes life completely, completely transformed, lighter. Do you want to say something today? No, I was just thinking about what you said about insecurities not being personal. That's all. I was thinking about that. I know that nothing is personal. Nothing is personal. That's sad. When there's an insecurity, generally, it's about a me. You know what I mean? Which, oh well, I need to do this.

Yes, but if you don't believe you are the body and there is still the insecurity about what's going to happen with the body, well how personal is that? You don't even fully believe it. It arises, the thought that arises. So why believe in the thought of that insecurity? You don't have a choice. If it arises, it arises. But if it isn't personal, if the thought says whatever, oh the body is falling apart, oh this pain is going to get worse, or the thought is saying, oh I am the queen of the universe, and none of it is believed, what does it really matter? Who is even paying attention to whatever the thought is saying?

It's just like you know you don't have any you're not too preoccupied with whether the track passes or the tram passes or the noise of the ambulance passes it's not a big deal. Same with the thought and the content of the thought whether the thought says oh I don't have enough money or the thought says oh I have too much money. What does it matter if there is no one who actually takes it on board and pay any attention to it? You may not even know, yeah, it was some thought, but who cares, I didn't even notice. That's the difference. If the insecurity arises, but it's not yours, you know, how preoccupied you are with the insecurities of someone on the other side of the world.

You don't even know. I think what I was thinking about is more specifically like low self-esteem is a form of insecurity. Right? Well, if you believe it. But that is a belief. I mean that implies a belief. This whole idea of self-esteem implies a belief in a self who has esteem or not. There you go. You see, I can say right now, oh I'm unworthy, I'm not good enough, I'm unlovable, I'm bullshit, I hate myself. I can say it a thousand times with a big smile on my face. It's just completely unthinkable. It's so unbelievable. www.muslimcentral.com But if that is just, if it's put in the right perspective, the mind is a calculator, it's an interpreting machinery, it's not who I am.

So therefore whatever it does, what does it have to do with me? Nothing. Yeah. So when things like this happen, I always think of it like, if you're outside and there's a breeze. Translated by Rami Shafiq, When I remember, to not take it seriously, because it takes remembering, I notice that something happened before that made it go there. I didn't sleep well, I didn't eat well, I got into an argument, something happened around, there was some sort of effect that brought on the thought. Because sometimes I have high self-esteem, sometimes I have low self-esteem, it's completely random. But then when you remember that it's like, oh, actually, wait, I didn't sleep last night.

That's why I'm a bit grumpy. And that's why I'm feeling insecure and a bit, I don't know, scared of the world or whatever. But then you're like, okay, it's just a cause and effect. Cool, I'll go rest. And then there's no meaning added to it. You just move on. It's just another breeze. Beautiful. And again, it's a direct experience, you know, it's like whatever happens, this is what we're sharing. It's okay if there is an effect of the thought, it's okay if there is no effect of the thought. It's nothing wrong, it's nothing wrong. I don't really have self-esteem anymore, so the thoughts of self-esteem don't appear.

But it doesn't mean that there is anything different or better here or there. It's just what's happening, it's just how life experiences and expresses itself through every single body-mind. Nothing wrong. What do you mean? What is this self that you talk about that requires esteem? What is this self It seems to be a big problem with you in this part of the world this thing of self what is it So and the other thing I wanted to also mention was Kat mentioned earlier about the urgency of thoughts. Now, I don't want to give anybody the wrong idea, like, some thoughts will come up and there will be a definite movement to act on the thoughts.

I Am the One who is the One. Puri Shankaracharya das remembers I Am That, Raman Nath, Raman Taha, Raman Nath, Raman Nath, I Am. I am trying to remember what it was. But, and this is probably the value that I found in very close and sustained observation of the mind is, the mind or thoughts, that urgency kind of manifests as sensation, as a sensation. And just to be able to recognize that sensation component of what's happening is very, very useful. And then you kind of realize that the sensation is associated with desire. You want something, relief, protection from the world or whatever it is. So just to recognize the basic components of your experience and maybe be able to single out, single them out a little bit.

Whereas I think a lot of the time people live with a sort of a blur or a tangle of experience and singling out I think is useful, helpful. Yeah, it is quite beautiful. I mean all those techniques, you know, Vipassana helps facilitating that. And in mind training facilitates that. Mindfulness facilitates that. And that's a great skill to have. Like it's a great skill to have, you know, speak foreign language or cook. They are absolutely wonderful skills to have, yeah. And they are helpful. People who do have those tools in their toolbox may suffer less ultimately. They may just find it, even having a language, you know, to actually be able to notice whatever is happening and having a language to divide the perception from the sensation, that's already a good sort of a skill, really.

So that's why Bob doesn't encourage, but he doesn't also discourage from any of those activities, be it a meditation or be it any sort of a training. We had some criticism on the Facebook group, why is Bob not sending people to the therapy? Obviously, you're all mental, so you should go to the therapy, someone was saying. It wasn't personal, it was just general, it wasn't about anyone specific. Because his teacher, Namkai Norbu, and some other teachers and few other names, they do that. They tell people how to live their lives and which doctor to support financially and what to do. Well, life will move you wherever you need to be.

Bob doesn't discourage anyone from going to the doctor or the therapist either. But he doesn't have this, you know, the conception that you are enlightened therefore you are omnipresent and you can divide three six-digit numbers in the mind straight away. Nonsense! Omnipresence is not personal. Personal omnipresence is the total presence which expresses and experiences us, everyone and everything. It's not that omnipotence or omniscience. It's not that someone is elevated or superior like Namkai Norbu or Bob and he should tell you what to do with your life That the misunderstanding which is often associated with people who have the tendency to And responsibility because of the ingrained guilt or fear or shame of doing something wrong And then they look for a guru who will be a father figure and who will prevent them from making more mistakes.

It is all based in the idea that there is a me that can get anything wrong. But if there isn't one, and life puts you in a place where you fall down into alcoholism, that's on life, and that may be necessary. Or you fall down into psychosis, and that again, that may be what's necessary To facilitate and to enable that deep longing for the truth. So with that, having said that, you know, there is nothing right or wrong again. There is nothing that anyone should do. There is nothing that Bob should do differently than what he does. There is nothing wrong. And seeing life from that perspective where you can actually, not only you know there is nothing wrong, but you can see it in action.

You have the confirmation bias proving that nothing is wrong. And that includes even the people who actually do believe that they know how you should live your life and they do tell you what to eat and what not to eat and what to think and they also lie. I think this is more of a question, I think. So, with the inferior and superior, that's a survival instinct, isn't it? Rather than a thought. Which one? Feeling inferior or superior? Yeah. Like, could that be envy? Like, if you're... Only when translated. Okay. See, if you look at the cuts, you know, occasionally one is bigger, one is stronger, And it takes the position of a leader and it chases away the other.

But there is no thought, there is no idea in the other card that, oh, there is something wrong with me. Oh, I want to be like him. This is already, this component is the narrative. And if that narrative is being believed, then the presumption of I is there and is also being believed, and then the suffering comes in. Okay, so if... What am I trying to say? Like how everyone was talking about enlightenment, For example, like if you want to get to enlightenment, you're thinking that you're less. So that's a survival instinct, isn't it? No. That's the thinking. As you said, you're thinking that you are less.

That's the thinking. And any idea of division that, you know, he is or she is enlightened and I am not, that's separation. That's the thinking. Again, there is nothing in the body that in the absence of that thought will bring that impression. See, the body knows its place. If you look again, you look at the tribal animals like dogs or monkeys, they know their place. They know who is the leader, they may prompt it and check it out, but they just find their place effortlessly. In humans you also know, you know, when you go to the police station, you don't really try to dominate anyone there usually.

But when the thought comes up, that scrambles the whole thing. Can your body react without a thought? Of course. Can the baby react without the thought? You know, when it's hungry it screams or when it's... So, okay, I think I kind of understand, but kind of not. Don't think about it. Yeah, the thing is to always take it through the litmus test, you know, like push the thought out and see if the body can react without the thought. Well, I bet it can. Yeah. You know, if you push the thought away and see the body is breathing, the heart is beating, the seeing is happening, hearing is happening, The presence is there, the thought is not, and life goes on.

So the Vipassana meditations, are they to sit in stillness and let things come up? There's a whole technique that they teach you over the course of the 10 days. So breathing and the sensations. And is that to stay in present awareness? No, there's a methodology for that. I can't imagine a traumatized person going into something like that though. Well, they actually don't recommend people who have mental health issues to do it. Yeah, they reject people. ...in their website, serious mental health issues. They do not recommend screens to the course Yeah that crazy Alright thank you They aware of it Yeah I seen seen couple of psychotic episodes in the midst of Vipassana retreats where people had to be evacuated and moved out of the room.

Yes, people who, maybe people who lied or maybe people who had it somehow, you know, in the predisposition which they weren't aware of and it just surfaced. I've seen it few times, so it does happen. I haven't seen it. I've only done four and I've seen it twice. Really? What was it like? For example, a person hyperventilating suddenly and making weird noises and getting eyes rolled up the other way and throwing themselves on the floor. You needed a few to actually take them out of the room and call the ambulance. And I think we have... John David says, I love how Bob puts questions to the questioner to have them look for themselves.

Yes, thank you John. That is the main thing about the whole nonduality explorations and investigations. There may be inspiration, Bob gives the introductory spiel to inspire where to look, but you do have to look for yourself. You do have to walk the walk. Because theoretically being able to repeat the whole spiel, anyone, any actor can learn that role. But to actually direct and relate the experience that is being lived rather than learned and enacted is a completely different ball game. Bradley says, the me who thinks less than is already in the light. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, you can see that insecurity arising in the me. When that one is noticed, it's already in that awareness of light.

Nothing comes up? Maybe? What did I tell you? Yes. Be utterly aware with the five senses wide open. That means when you're hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, they're open to all of them. Equal. That way, they utterly open with unfixated awareness. We are not fixating on one or the other. That's when you go with the flow, whatever it is. And you can see how this is actually already happening. Did you want to say something, Tim? Like, thanks, Bob. That's the total, complete experience here. So ideas of a skin boundary, ideas of psychosis, ideas of vipassana and a me getting somewhere, all the different embedded thoughts that me seems to be part of, and an energetic contraction that goes along with it, or a sense of the body.

All of them are just these little energetic patterns appearing in this, this, whatever this is, this this-ness, this sense of presence. And it's like all the senses are picking up all that information and none of it is personal. It is just an appearance of all these different things occurring and they can only occur now and that's it. Thank you Bob. Thank you everyone. And Alvaro says, oh thank you so much to everyone. See you tomorrow. Yes, there is a Zoom meeting happening three times a week. Tomorrow, a couple of hours earlier than now, or three hours earlier than now, Thank you Bob, thank you Kat.