Natural vs artificial intelligence. Sailor Bob, Kat Adamson and nonduality group. 25 Aug 2024

Daniel, Christo, Brandon, Jacinta, Chris, Tasha, Sheena, Meena, Maureen, Lockie, James, Chi, David, Rose, Veda, Jodhav, Hibben, Dane, Mitra, and Bob. I'm sorry, I should have done it earlier. Hi everyone. Good to see you all. And you all know what it's all about. You know what it's all about? The one and only, nondual, pure presence-awareness, pure being. God, if you like to call that. Liberation, self-realization. Many different labels on the one thing. All that, everything is that, only that. That's what we need to look at and recognise. And that's how they describe nonduality. One without a second, not two. Pointing out that there is only the one essence that is patterning, shaping, forming and appearing, experiencing as everything.

Because as soon as you open your eyes you are seeing things, many different things, and they all appear to be solid, substantial and real. And that's easy to understand, well they appear to be that but not recognising that they only appear to be that, seemingly so. It is a phenomenal manifestation and the definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. So you and I and everything else are that phenomena where all patterns, shapes and forms are appearing. And what are we appearing in? Well I tell you that it's the basic space, the phenomena. The base of it all is space. Space is all there is.

There is only space. And if you have a look at that, then the truth is that which never changes. Have a look and see what is it that never changes in this manifestation. And you can look at every, all the seeming things and they're all changing. But has space ever changed? It hasn't. The content of it is constantly changing, but space itself has no beginning. No centre, no circumference, you can't give it any shape or form. But it is all there is. And what they say is true. It's the basic space of all phenomenons. All phenomena is appearing on space, or they call it adornments on space, just stuck in space, appearing to be real.

But they're not. They're all vibrations, movements of that life essence seemingly changing it. Now have a look at that, if it's all that, can you separate it? Wouldn it be equal But we don treat life like that do we We believe it good it bad it pleasant it painful it all sorts of things going on it And if you recognise it and see it for what it is, you'll see it's all equal. And Shakespeare tells you that and he says there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. It's only thought that seemingly divides us into the opposite. Otherwise, it's equal. Now if you realise or recognise that, when you get a like this or a don't like that, or all these concepts that come on, this is good or that's bad, this is high or that's low, The What are you going to fixate on?

See, the way we fixate on or attach to is the cause of all our problems. We like it from that point, we don't like it, it's good, it's bad, it's pleasant, it's painful, it's happy, it's sad. All because we give it some conceptual idea of being real. But left as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, no preference, no partiality, no comparison, it changes. Look at nature, we're in nature right now, and it's constantly changing in the appearance. But you realize it doesn't change. It's still all space. It's never changed. It can't change. And the things that appear in it come and go. If something comes and goes, does it have any reality?

How do you think? You know, thoughts are always coming and going, feelings are coming and going. Everything is transient. This body is transient, it is changing right now. There are thousands of cells dying in it and being replaced. And how things appear. One minute you might like something, the next minute it appears to you differently and we don't like it. And that's where the trouble begins, with the division. The simply dividing everything. And so we get caught up in the division. Try to alter it, modify it or correct it. Try to grasp it with the concept. Try to fix it with a thought or a feeling or an emotion.

And all it does is bring up all thoughts, feelings and emotions. Left as it is, what happens? Well, you need to test it out and see for yourself. It's constantly changing. That body, you don't realise it's a UVR, it's changing right now. There are cells dying in it right at this moment. You wouldn't believe that unless you've investigated how to look and seen what science and all the rest will tell you. That's constantly changing. But what's recognizing it, the cognizing emptiness of it all, is seemingly with the change. But that's what the Buddha called it, the cognizing emptiness. We are cognizing the emptiness or knowing or seeing the emptiness.

But he didn mean that at all He meant that emptiness itself has that capacity of cognising or changing Space can not change It cannot change at all Changes occur in it and appear in it I Am I Am I Am I Am I Am I Am Translations by Subtitles by I Am the One Who Is. I think that's it. No words came out of your mouth. And the other thing is, it all disappears. The dream disappears. And you wake up to what this is. This waking dream is just coming on right now. Because this dream started, waking dream starts from when I woke up this morning.

Three o'clock this morning I was awake. And during this same world that was there when I'd gone to sleep. I Am That, Raman, I Am, I Am, I Am. I Am. Only appearance, vibrating limit. It's constantly changing. We don't want to change. So we fixate on it and try to get out of it. He says the dreamer, you call the world, stop looking for ways out. Instead of trying to get out of the dream. Once you see the dreamer's dream, you've done all you can and all you need to do. And he says the rest will be done for you. What does he mean by that?

Well, he means, what's the rest? Well, he means it's life itself that brought you into existence and you can't remember your birth. And a few first years you think you can't remember it. But you think you're doing all these things. Well, you're not. It's that life itself. I Am Self, Pataling, Shaping and Forming and Expressing as not only you, me, but every other manifestation and form in this universe. It's all appearance. We take it to be real. And the sad thing is we suffer from that. If you go to a movie and realize the movie is just something happening on the screen and the screen is not touched, I Am.

There a rule All the psychological problems come about And life becomes pretty miserable Pretty unhappy. Doesn't have to be that way. Wei Wei told us that. He says, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say, everything you think and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. There is no yourself or myself. No personal self. There is only the one self which I told you, that's the Ma, the Atman or one self, or they call it God in a lot of places. But that self is not some pattern, shape and form. It's just the vibrating intelligence energy of life. It's vibrating just the same as the wind out there, the air stirring up the tree and moving the branches, causing things to happen.

So this life constantly moving and vibrating. But no thing has really ever happened. It's only appearing to be so. And the things, like the things that are being moved by the wind, well the wind is just a somewhat appearing air moving around and the tree that's moving is just another appearance. It's all appearance, it's all appearing to be real. And the definition of reality is that which never changes. And the only thing about all of that that doesn't change is the space itself. You can't find the beginning of the space, you can't find an end to it, you can't find any pattern, shapes or forms.

Try and find it, try and find a beginning to it, try and find a pattern, shape and form in space. The patterns, shapes and forms are appearing in space. They are not the space itself. The space is uncontaminated, uncorrupted, untouched. So everything is even, everything is equal. Now what happens if you start to treat some of your problems, no matter how bad they seem to me, as equal? I Am. And you have all the problems you had last year, or last week. You say they've gone away. Where did they go to? Where did they come from? They call the bondage of self. That's what they call it.

That's what we tie it up in, in all these concepts which are the bonds of self. And the concepts are the fear, the anger, the depression, the guilt, the shame. Remorse, the jealousy, the envy. All those things. Take them on board and you've got a life of misery. And it can be very miserable, I know, because I've been in it quite often. But you can be free of it too. And I know that for certain now. I mean before I couldn't believe it at one time. I know that. And that's what they tell us again Know the truth and the truth will set you free.

There it is. Just know the truth. Investigate and see. The truth will set you free. What are you free from? You must be free from the bondage of belief. You believe it's this, that and the other without question. Not believing it or seeing it all equal and watching it from that equalness and see it change and resolve itself. It's daylight here now, and while it will be dark, and then it will be daylight again. It will be constantly changing. Which one's real, daylight or dark? And you'll see they're both equal. It couldn't be one without the other. And everything else that happens is equal. And that in quality or evenness, what's wrong?

Life can be pretty joyous or well, being well. Doesn't have to be like it is, anxious, fearful. It's only me that can be anxious or fearful. Me is the cause of all the psychological suffering. I believe it's I or me. Who is this I or me? Isn't it the words our parents put upon us, called us this name? I am so and so, or you are so and so. And we've believed it, that we are this separate entity. And that's taken for granted, we never question it. And you go to school, you learn more words, but nobody tells you not to look into this eye and see how real it is, but we keep reinforcing it.

And so it seemingly becomes stronger. And so when we attach to it and fixate on it and keep it going, it becomes overwhelming. And how many nut cases there are, and traumatic cases, and fearful and anxious cases there are in this world. Because of the belief. And you look at the word belief, and that's just another word like a lot of other words we've learned. And you'll see the dictionary definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. We're not accepting it, we're not questioning it, we're seeing it and believing that it is so. I don't question acceptance of something in the absence of reason, acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof.

When your parents told you Little Johnny and you learnt I am Little Johnny or Little Jane or Jean, whatever my name might be, without questioning it. And I took it to be this human form and believed it was that. And that human form is constantly changing also. But we don't go along, we're still putting the same old name on it. Same old idea and concepts. We're not going along with the change that's happening. What's the other side of form? It's formless. Form and form, what's that other side of good? It's bad. What's that other side of presence? Past. So it all vibrates with these words we've learnt into the seeming opposites.

And we take those opposites to be separate and fixate on one or the other. We either like it, which will be good, or we don't like it, which will be bad. So we're attaching to one end of the stick and ignoring the others, but realise it's all the one stick. It's got two ends to it. What happens if it gets into the middle of it, or away from the ends, or doesn't go to the boundary? Is it going to be as bad as it was if you're hanging onto one end? Well you've got a piece of wood, what they call a seesaw, what's it coming for in the centre of it?

It balances, becomes equal. Or you go to the North Pole, your next step will be South because you can't go any further North. That's the Pole, that's the end of it. If you go to the South Pole, they can't go any further South. That's where the end of it. But where do they meet? And you'll meet, they meet at the equator. They've even got a word for that, where it's equal. Where it's all the one essence. It's equal. Thank you. But a lot of us don't bother to do that. We still think we're going to work it out with the mind. But we grasp it with the concepts and that brings up more concepts, which brings up more concepts.

And it goes on and on and on And it only in me that you be unhappy Only in me that you be fearful Only in me that you be depressed guilty So me is the cause of the anxiety the fear the depression the guilt the shame And they are the effects of the cause, the unhappiness, the fear, the anxiety. They're the effects of the cause. What do they talk about in the scriptures? Cause and effect, which they call karma. Satsang with Mooji At the time, I was in the company of the If it comes back to its evenness, its equilibrium, and there's no division, what is there or who is there to fear?

And watch that in your mind and see how it functions. Something comes up and you like it. And the things we like, we don't want to go away. Not realizing that everything in this manifestation is changing. Day, night, winter, summer, high tide, low tide, new year, old year, everything. It's all dividing all the time, conceptually. But you realise it doesn't divide. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? And I realise I can't say it's good, I can't say it's bad, can't say anything at all about it, it hasn't moved away from its equilibrium. Who's going to be hurt by it? We get touched and locked into these concepts and that me is believed to be what I am and it's only me that can be anxious or fearful.

Me is the cause and I see that the cause is just a thought, a concept, it's not what I am. And ask the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating to a cause? Well, if I'm not relating to a cause and see it all as equal, what effect can equality have? Can it be divided into good or bad or plentiful? It's just as it is. What is means it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, just as it is right now. And that is constantly changing. But it's still only what is at any time at all. So that's what I say when I see everything these days as equal, they work each other out equally naturally.

It happens that way. A lot of these things come up and they can be very bothering, make you very miserable to fixate on. But leaving them as there is, not fixating on, detaching from them, they straighten out pretty quickly. And the more further it goes on, the easier it is. Not like it was all the time, there'd be very little relief from it at all, Because we're so believed in. Now there's more relief than what there is locked into the feelings. And things are changing here. The body's breaking down. All things are still happening. It's not the same as it was. We had cause of anxiety or fear or stress.

But there's a careless feeling. A sense of well-being. Seeing that even this is all going to work itself out Not in the way I might think it will be Because this pattern will break down like all other patterns do And where it goes, goes back to where it came from. Space. Everything came out of space, everything will go back into space. And space has never ever been touched or contaminated or corrupted by anything that's happened in it. It's always fresh and new. And you are and I am that space like awareness. If you don't like it, you don't have to take it. If you do like it, you might find a big difference.

Anyway, that's about it. Leave it all up to you. Take over. Thank you. Yes, so this is the part where I include our online community and we have few good morning messages and love and thanks from South Australia, from Catherine and James, was nice to have you here last week Much love to all from Debra. Anika says, thank you, heart opening spiel this morning. Sitting here in peace in this moment of gratitude and love for Bob and Kat. Thank you, Anika, that's beautiful. And this is the time when we invite everyone to open up and share and tell us if there was anything you particularly liked or resonated with in the spiel, the part that was most I am very happy to be here.

And whatever happens on the top of that direct experience of presence and awareness, we may look as well because it may distract us from that basic screen. And then there is again no one to be distracted really, it's just a distraction appearing in the sky. Sky is not distracted by the cloud. So recognizing that you are a sky and what you are is not really distracted by thoughts and ideas and beliefs. It's what we're doing here, so anyone would like to start? Questions are welcome as well, arguments, totally, anything, anything that comes up. It's a group investigation. Josh? So, yeah, question about this kind of experience of I'm sorry for the lagging, like where it seems as though the story has shifted here in a certain way, but when it's being expressed there's a desire, I'll still, I want to say what I would have said before but it feels less true, but I don't know why, I don't know what's changed.

I'm not sure about that. The ultimate shift, and it's really not even a shift, it's just a recognition, is transcending the story altogether. And then you can see all versions at once, and being free from it as that conscious presence, you can laugh at all of them. But the shift the fact that the story shifted you know like people may live in a persistent identity of a spiritual seeker this is who I am or persistent identity of a victim and that persistent identity doesn let them even appreciate the beauty of life The Now I am something else. But if there is really no one there to identify with any story as anything, no one who needs to know who am I, that's the ultimate freedom in which all those identities come and go.

Is that what you meant? Yeah, yeah, I do, I also, yeah, because the victim kind of is always, or the seeker is always looking for something to bolster it. And if you start to glimpse like a gap around it or the space around it or something like that then a bit of a surprise, it sometimes can be a bit of the perspective is fresh, you know, it's like, oh, you know, there's been these patterns that seem to play out or seem to appear in the system. Yeah. But they go away. They appear and they go and then they'll come back or maybe they weren't. That's beautiful.

See, this is the way of looking at the patterns in the system as completely impersonal patterns in the system. You may have, like we were talking with Mitra just before the meeting, you may have completely crazy, dysregulated behaviors at times, but they're not yours. They just how the body was responding to the changing environment and develop, you know, like children are throwing tantrums. Sometimes adults are throwing tantrums too. And they are not doing it. It's just the behavior that is triggered in the body. Just the same way as the, you know, bull responding to the red blanket. They are triggered behavior. They're not yours. They're not you.

So there is nothing wrong with you. It's just the behavior that when you witness them from that space-like perspective, wow, that's the responses, oh, incredible, wow. You can even see them, you can laugh at them, rather than feeling that, oh, there is something wrong with me, I'm deficient, or I need the therapy, I need the healing. Life may take you to that as well, there is nothing wrong, there is nothing excluded. Rewriting certain behaviours through mind training isn't off the menu if life takes you there. But realising that behaviours are not what you are and they are not yours, they are just what's happening in the system.

That's a good realization. See how none of responses of behaviors are different to what you have realized. It applies to absolutely everything. To the way you look, to the way you tilt your head, to the way you hold that magic wand, to everything. Every single behavior from the thought to feeling to emotion to response to behavior to movement of the body. All of it is just the way the system or the machine has been set. None of it is you or yours. You are the consciousness which gives it a space to, of course, the consciousness uses the body, so it's not like we are denying the body.

This is more of a, even more of a groundedness in the body. And from that groundedness in the body, seeing how it automatically moves, It's how it automatically beats the heart and moves the arm and tilts the head. So you've noticed it is just a response of behavior of the system in the machine. Include everything. Like, yeah, yeah. So it's like we have contextual cues, don't we? Like in life we enter a particular environment or meet or go somewhere And we feel like we're different people. What is that? Is that just... Adaptability. It is just the same. You see the dog behaving differently to the people that it considers part of the tribe, and differently to strangers, differently to other dogs, differently when you carry it away for vacation, differently in the car.

It's a wonderful skill that everyone has to actually just sense without even conscious awareness the energy in the room and kind of fit in. Like when you go to the bar, to the pub where people just had a massive fight and it's quiet, nobody say anything. But you walk in and you kind of become invisible and just kind of hide. Or you might have different behavior, you may be just a bully stepping out. The body does that by itself in humans, in animals, and again, you can just be the space for it, and you can be in a state of woo, wow. So the tendency or requirement of a seeker to get rid or remove itself, then it's not really being...

No, it's impossible. Because the one who would want to remove the one is the imagination removing the imagination. The identification as a seeker is fully imagined and that one who identifies that seeker is who I am is also imagined. They have no power, they can't do anything, they can't remove anything. The Seeker is a costume. And sometimes the body puts on that costume. There is no one there who is actually deciding on it. And you see it's an automatic behavior. Even adopting that position or the position of a vulnerable child or the position of a bully or any position depending on the situation. See how different you may be responding to your best friend or your girlfriend and your mother.

There will be completely different behaviours. And you're not choosing it, it just kicks in. The machinery is already so intelligent, the way it responds, it just kicks in. But there's still a desire to see the patterns and say, I Am. Connection with people, you know. And not hurting anyone, absolutely. Yeah, but when we're... But can you see that this desire floating through the sky is also impersonal? Desire for being safe is also impersonal. It is also part of the conditioning of the system. Well socialized members of so-called community will not wish any harm on others. If there was a really nasty environment they grew up, they might not develop that skill of loving, compassion or care.

So it is also part of the conditioning. You can also see in the animal kingdom, when the animals need to conquer the territory so that their children are safe, They will do that. They won't do that for our human dysregulated reason like, oh there is something wrong with me and they are all against me so I will kill them. That's the dysregulation and it also is conditioned. There is no one there. The psychopath didn't choose to be a psychopath. But it's just wonderful that you have that part of that socializing pattern going through the body The body is the desire to be kind and do goodness.

But if you see it as impersonal as well, it doesn't prove that the imagined self is real. Nothing does The pattern of behaviour of tilting your head as you speak and pattern of behavior of not wishing harm on anyone or wanting to be loved or approved of they no different I don't know, do we all have these internal battles that happen where, you know, on the one hand what we want is to be loved, what we want is kindness, but then on the other when it happens, there's like an, like we can't, it's not always the easiest to kind of just allow it, you know?

Do we all have it? Well, does it really matter? Because are there even any others? It might be helpful to project that the human condition, which is that existential angst, is collective, so that you look at other people with loving compassion and you understand that as much as you struggle, everyone also struggles. It might be helpful from the psychological point of view, but from the nondual perspective, don't really worry about the others, because the others are projected. As you fix the projector, the projection you will see, and this is amazing, this is an incredible shift, when you will see that nothing is wrong with anyone.

I am not saying that anyone, nothing is wrong with machine being dysregulated, nothing is wrong with the fact that some of the machines are missing legs or are missing some processor here and are schizophrenic or have other mental illnesses or anxieties. There is nothing wrong because from life's perspective, life is experiencing and expressing through every means and every channel. But even at this point, you know, if that projection that that human condition that you know, I want it, but I don't know but you know that narrative if that somehow feels Helpful in the investigation. Well acknowledge that but you didn't do it either. It's not your belief It's just something that shows up in your head It's But it's mine.

Like that's what, that's kind of... It feels like. Yeah, it feels like, or at least there's registering that there's a thought, but it's mine. But of course, if nothing's owned, if nothing's really owned by anyone, because there is no one, then that's a belief only, isn't it? Yes, yes, you're registering and that's beautiful. You register a thought and you register how automatically the machine takes ownership of the thought and says this is mine. It is the number one human condition, brain capacity, taking credit. Whatever happens, it takes credit. You know, I thought that thought, this was my idea, I'm going to copyright that idea, this was my quote.

So this is what it does. The thought came up. Oh shit, this was a bad thought. I am a bad person. I am a victim. I'm horrible. I need something. Something's wrong with me. But the thought just arises. As Bob often shows, what's your next thought? You don't know. You have to wait and see. What's your next feeling? You don't know. It depends on the environment, on the weather, on other people, on ten thousand things. You don't know. You have to wait and see. So how is it yours? It's just two things are happening. I mean it's not two, it's all one. But in a way the thought arises and the claiming arises with the thought straight away.

This is my thought, it happens in my head. It doesn't happen in Dean's head. Oh you don't know that, but Dean happens... Definitely not. See the tendency to always locate it as this is mine because the division, the mind divides what happens here is me and what happens out there is not me. That's the primal duality, me not me. So this is mine, this is not mine. As practical as it can be in the daily functioning when you recognize that this is another mechanical pattern assisting the machine to navigate through the world and not the truth How easy life becomes then The thought feels like it is my thought Wonderful Yeah let it feel this way But not the truth.

Everything, there is one consciousness and this is direct experience. There is a field of knowing. In that field of knowing thought arises. I am here and this is out there, not I. But that thought, before that thought arisen, the experience is I am. There is a presence, the presence of awareness. That presence doesn't have any shape or form unless the thought comes and gives it a shape or form. In that consciousness that I am, prior to the thought of shape and form of the body here and not here, Every thought arises within that consciousness, whether it is in Dean's head or your head or Bob's head, it arises in the field of consciousness.

Everybody arises in the field of consciousness, this one, this one, all of them. That's the direct experience. But the thought, because again it's a navigating instrument, it's an interpreting machine, and it is a wonderful machine. It straight away tells you, it divides you, it names and it claims and it's just what it does. Just see how it functions, just enjoy how it works. Learn about it, be curious about it, be mind blown about it. How the desire comes up and straight away, oh shit, this is my desire, I'm not free. Oh God, I have to meditate more. Oh, I have to do something else. No, desire, Nothing is mine if there is no me.

And now, how does desire motivate the body to respond? If there is this curious field of attention showing up, that is more interested in the dynamic of the desire than in the content of it, the desire might still be acted upon, or not. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. What does matter actually is just realization of that field, of that intelligence. Sorry, but does it matter on some level? Like if there's, you know, whether it causes harm to another person? Yeah, within the dream, of course. Within the dream everything matters. I love the thing that Bob said in the Spiel today, and for me this was the one new thing that I heard today.

When he was saying that we divide our issues and problems into more and less important, they're all the same. They're all content of the dream. I heard that too today. You talked about equality, seeing things equally. But you can train yourself to see things equally, but the only way you can really see things equally is when there's no seer. There's just seeing and then everything has to be equal when there's no thoughts superimposed upon what's seeing then it can't be other than equal because there's no judgments, it's the end of the whole game. But yeah, you spoke about that, I haven't heard you speak about that using so many words but I'm sorry.

That was beautiful. Jacinta was going to say something. If we're all in this room right now, we're all the same. We can't be separate. If we're experiencing it without any thought right now, we're not separate. We're all here. If we have a thought and we could be gallivanting around Europe or something, well then you're really not present here. We've all come here and we all are one. We're all the same. But it's only our thought that separates us. Thank you, Josh. Thank you. Couldn't we just say then it's a blessing or thank you to dysregulation or identity, because it gives an opportunity to gain clarity or to find the truth.

What a wonderful attitude. Yeah, wonderful. Because I used to get so caught up in all those things And I found if I kept it simple by looking at it that way I could just stay with my energy and recognize so many other things as energy that's not moving at the pace I'm I am either naturally moving or wanting to move. And then there's a sense of having some control. But then again that's also a thing. Do you know what I mean? So it can be circular. So I think sometimes language can complicate it. Silence can have the answer? I don't know. So your last word is the first word of what I'm saying, and that's already wrong because I said other words than that.

What was the last word you mentioned? I think... Silence... I don't know. I don't know. You mentioned I don't know. I don't know is the formula. I'm not suggesting, I'm speaking on my own. Yeah, this is about... Bob was suggesting for decades and still suggesting the terminology of the truth The drop of the truth, known as nonduality or Advaita. Drop of sperm contains innate intelligence, it knows what to do, penetrate the oval and do the rest. Well, the rest, until the body loses that life intelligence, the one should keep it that way. That's actually meditation. When I give up the artificial intelligence to natural intelligence, that's meditation.

I used to use artificial intelligence known as ego or contraction of energy or what I knew as truth as a belief, which is resisted, old, unnecessary baggage of contracted, dense, intense thing in my system which recently, not recently, but in comparison to 34 years old that I'm living my life, I find out that this is so dysfunctional. Slowly, slowly, by the suggestion of the meeting, suggestion of the truth, which comes through different channels of life, I have to leave it first, and then second leave it as it is. It was unnecessary to say first and second. Leave it as it is. Patience is the key.

Patience is the lack or absence. Well said. Thank you. Well said. Lovely. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Thanks for listening. So, it's not very well formulated, but, so I'm totally in a, you know, like realization, I guess, has different stages, right? So Bob is talking about the truth like the end of it, like this is an appearance and it's not real, right? Imagine for example I talked about my emotion with Bob and with yourself, right? It's been very triggering things that been unconscious and very recent. I recently came to my consciousness and I realized all my life I've been actually reacting on them without knowing what was the source.

And towards certain family members. So, because where I'm at is very different with where you guys are. That's a concept. I don't know, it's a concept, but it is my truth, right? Whatever it is, I don't know. It's a concept. It's a belief. You know, it's a belief. Okay, it's a belief. But also it's, I don't see it, because I actually tried it and it wasn't productive. I tried to say to myself this is not real, right? I tried to because I realized that trying doesn't work. And also it isn't exactly that it is black and white, real and unreal. Yes. It is real in its essence and unreal in its appearance because appearance is changing.

Feelings are real in essence, they are intelligence energy outputting through the conditioning as a feeling. They are real in its essence. Unreal in the way you label them, interpret them, contextualize them. Absolutely, I agree with you. It resonates. However, where I am at, which I have got a very very sense of what is awareness, Now I am just practicing it throughout the... That's already wrong. You can't get sense of what awareness is, because it's not an object in consciousness. Try to be unaware and if you succeed, then you will know. Okay, all I'm trying to say is my practice now is very basic, like honestly like kindergarten.

Like I can only notice my feet now and say this awareness is effortless, you know. This is where I'm at, very basic, right? Beautiful. I practice being aware of being aware. Am I aware right now as Bob keeps saying? And I say yes. Did I try to be aware? No. It's totally effortless. This is where I'm at. So I'm asking this question from where I'm at. That's fantastic. There's no one else to go. That's it. So I'm not... Not basic level. Okay, whatever it is. But I haven't yet... feeling the whole space and saying this is this is not my experience let's put it this way.

Mine is not too and Bob's is not either. So my experience is not that this whole space is me? No, mine is neither. Neither. This is an idiotic idea. Stupid. Who would have an experience that this is me the whole space is me? Stupid! There is no me. Okay, okay, there is no me. Yeah. Okay, so I haven't got that totally true all my own realization, right? I totally trust you. The presence is always there. You are aware of presence. You are present. That you are certain. Yes. And so is Bob and so am I. Yeah, but for me it's until the edge of my body right now.

Okay, so when you for a moment I am not a person who is not aware of the existence of the body. I am a person who is not you stop thinking do I have a body No. Do I have a mind? No. Am I having a boundary? No. Without the thought, everything dissolves. Do I have to ever do it again? No. I already know that without the thinking, all the conceptualizing of the body-mind-machine is not there. So I already know that all the conceptualizing of body, mind, machine comes from thinking. I'm aware of the edges more or less all the time. When I walk through the door, I never hit myself or anything.

I'm aware of the edges. But I know that those edges are my costume. Like you are aware of the shape of your car when you're driving. Doesn't mean that you wear your car, no. So being aware of the edges, it doesn't mean that you should never have a thought or you should never have the experience of the vehicle that the consciousness is using to see and to hear. You are experiencing the same thing as Bob and I. He is aware, sometimes he stops his thoughts, but that's a different story. You know, I think there is a difference when we... You think. Because you don't know.

You cannot... Just be honest. Can you know what's Bob's experience? You can't. You can only think. And you think that his experience of presence is different to yours. No, well, I'm just talking about my own experience. Like, I see my limitation. For example, if I consider my capacity as much as a glass of water, if you put a drop of ink in a glass of water, right, which that's how I feel my experience is of my capacity to hold emotions or pain with that strong reaction like an immature kid, which I have done that in the last couple of weeks. I am very ashamed of it.

Stop it! Because when you put that drop of ink into glass of water, it all turns black. But if you drop it, and actually this analogy came to me, if I drop that into an ocean, it hardly is felt or seen, right? And I thought that I am identifying myself with that glass of water right now. That's where I am at. This is the truth about my experience, right? So in that context, right? Now that all these emotions that been coming up for me, which were totally unconscious, and probably they were unconscious because I didn't want to see them all my life. And I just didn't even know they there, right?

I could see my reactions to those certain family members, but I didn't know why they were there. I am not sure why they are coming out like that. I of course blame them for it, you know, all my life. So now I see why, you know, it's coming from those disapproval, unapproval, whatever word it is, and feeling of being unloved while I didn't know. I now know this is where it's coming from. And if I wanna, I know that if, of course it's not real, as Bob says, And of course I can somehow, as Bob suggested, detach yourself from it. And I feel like if I detach myself from it, it's hard to keep going on the suppression that I've done all my life.

But you think you have a choice to detach or to attach? You can see how detachment or attachment also comes when the thought arises. Can you detach if the thought of detaching doesn't arise? Well, I can try. I can actually try and I've done it and it was unsuccessful. Next to him. So I could... I can do that. I can actually... If the thought arises, yes. Yes, when the emotion comes, you know, instead of actually doing something with it I can just go to that expanded awareness like with sand or everything and I feel like that actually it just comes back again And then I think maybe I should really totally do something with it.

I don't know, feel it or whatever, which I don't know. I wonder if you actually noticed that while you're describing that feeling, you know, You are describing what's happening in that glass. Let's call it a plastic glass with half full and a little ink there. And that glass is floating in the ocean and you are describing what's happening in the glass. Where are you looking from? You are the field, aware of the glass being dysregulated or reacting with sense of shame or guilt or whatever, or reacting with anger. But there is an awareness of that reaction happening. And that reaction is a conditioned reaction by all means.

But the awareness is unconditioned. The awareness, the place from which you are describing what is happening is not the glass. For the glass, you know, like, anger cannot describe itself. It's just boom, explosion. It can't have self-reflection. It can't see itself. Volcano doesn't know it is a volcano. Dog doesn't know it is a dog. So when you are describing the emotion, you are already free from the emotion to be able to reflect and differentiate it from the field of knowing, to even label it. Yeah, I know, but that's not enough, it seems. Oh yeah, well, if there is a desire, if there is also a desire to retrain the reactions, Well, you may find yourself with the hypnotist somewhere, or you may find yourself in a psychedelic therapy, or you may find yourself in any sort of other settings, if the desire is strong enough to rewrite the pattern.

But from the nondual perspective, your experience, whether this sort of pattern is in your body, or whether Bob's pattern of stabbing the toe, or my pattern, which I have some very immature behaviors when triggered as well, It's not my fault, it's just the conditioning, which obviously everyone is a totality. Everyone could be triggered in one point or the other or have the button pushed to the point that they will be surprised with their own reaction. Because that isn't their own reaction, it's just the environment shaping the body. So if there is like, and Josh had the same, you know, a beautiful desire to just be kind and loving and practice metta meditation, I am a person who is not afraid of anything.

I am not afraid of anything. The notion that whatever arises in the field of consciousness is what you know of, not what you are. It's an object, it's not the principle, the knowing principle. You are the knowing principle, the presence in which those feelings, those reactions arise, and you are the knowing principle of it. And your being knowing principle is no different to anyone else being knowing principle. Anyone who describes the content will be different, always, uniquely different. Even if we describe the same anger in similar situation in response to whoever, that will still be uniquely different. You may want to, if you really want to see that freedom and focus on the truth, you may want to consider starting to look for similarities rather than for differences.

You know, when Bob is talking about space like awareness, oh, oh yeah, oh yeah, I had a moment when I actually could say I know what he's talking about. Rather than always say no, no, no, no, they all feel, I don't, I'm different, I'm different. You are different. Every content is super, super different. There's no unique. But if you look for what actually really rings the bell, when he says, I love when you said you know that basic what do you say basic effortlessness of awareness Recognizing that one thing is all When you see how effortlessly the life essence is beating your heart, how effortlessly it's giving you thoughts, how effortlessly it's giving you that desire to do something about it and get real, mature, you know, don't be a childish.

How effortlessly all those things arise in that presence. You can take that one insight, effortlessness of awareness, and just apply it to every field of experiencing. And you will see that really the experiencing that you are is no different to any other To experiencing, expressing itself as a tree or as Bob or as Buddha or as a story. And hold on to it. This is beautiful. I mean, there's no one to hold on to. But that realization is yours, that awareness is effortless. Yeah, I just need to deepen it. Otherwise I'm just in the trap of emotion attack. No, no, you just notice the distractions.

You don't need to do anything about it. Just notice the distractions. Notice how suddenly you forgot that the awareness is effortless because your attention went into a distraction. Oh, I don't want to behave like this. This was like old childhood trauma popping up and I can see the whole story. I can see when it started. Those are wonderful. Those are gorgeous insights within the dream. But if you want to go beyond the dream, then you can see that whole story and you may be mind blown by it, but you realize that all that happens in that effortless presence. I think the key here is to see, Bob talks about the senses, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

Well, pre-sense awareness, he split up the word pre-sense awareness, so that's just naturally happening all the time. Then what comes in is a naming and claiming of whatever's happening. And you have to name from the memory. You have to name from the memory or the narration. And that's appearing upon that pre-sense awareness that you are. So, are you aware right now? That's it. Effortlessly. Effortlessly. And then the conflict arises when the mind tries to figure things out. Or the memory, the memory of you, you have an image of this memory of you, and then, you know, that memory zips back to the past, and then creates the thought, feeling and emotion.

You know, and then it projects into the future and creates anxiety, you know, And it's the dream. That's all the dream. But what's it appearing upon? That pre-sense awareness that you are. So that's what kept coming up for me. Yeah, that's beautiful. And I have here a comment from Lindsay. And oh, there is another one from Catherine. And another one from Ram. Oh, massive train delay from Geelong, hoping to be there soon. Yeah, good you made it, Ram. And Catherine says, it is easy to see that you were a navigator at CCAT because you are the quintessential navigator of people's concepts, taking them straight back to reality.

Brilliant. Thank you, Catherine, that's beautiful. Lindsay says, just want to add that as long as there is any idea that a certain state or experience is better than another, then separation and suffering will be perpetuated. That is beautiful. That is actually what Dean and I picked on Bob's field that was really beautifully stated fresh and new. And I'm going to just bring it back again. Any idea that certain state or experience is better than another. The ultimate freedom is the freedom regardless of the content of the experience. We have the ultimate freedom, not the freedom to just experience more pleasure and less pain. Yeah. You might think this is a bit neurotic, Kat.

When Bob today, when you were talking about space, I don't know what's going on, but... Sorry, I was going to collect myself. There is a deep awareness, there was, is a deep awareness of nothing but space. And then suddenly by the process of magic, it feels like this solid holographic form called And the body feels this sense of stillness that has transcended any sense of peace I've ever felt. And at the same time I feel like I'm spinning. I actually feel like I want to vomit. I feel like I want to fall over. And now I can't, it's like as if I'm, it's like as if I'm talking from outside of my body and it's like as if there's, I don't know if these are the right words, if it's awareness, knowingness, it's in between you all.

It's like as if I'm in between the spaces, like the blank space between you all and I'm seeing and perceiving from that. I Am The One, by the way, by the process of magic, you all appear as solid holographic form. But I just, whoa, excuse me, I'm going to swear, fuck me. I feel like I'm on a really big wave, just whoa, as if the mind doesn't know what to do with it. And the me-self keeps trying to interpret it. I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the mind. But it's so weird, it's like that gap in between Dean and Hermione Granger, it's like I am that gap but I'm not you, the solid holographic form, but it's also that, but it's not.

I'm a bit of a And I feel joyful and not I, because I don't give a shit about I. There's joyfulness. And I don't know if it's fear or afraidness. Yeah, it's shaky. Yeah, amazing. Shaky, I think, yeah. Something got shaken there in that fixed worldview, in the fixed way that the mind interprets the reality. It just got shaken. It got unstuck. I don't know where I put this. Thank you. This might sound a little bit off the track, but it's not off the track. Years ago when I was learning about ego and etc. and I was confused about, well, I'm not real. So I spoke to a monk that I knew and I said, so then I'm not real.

And then he said, well, if I dropped a rock on your toe right now, you'd certainly feel it. So that's real. But they're just your, you know, vibrations. So a lot of the times when my reactions came, rather than labelling them, I accepted them as a body's creational vibration. I not sure what that means I am not going to be fixated on it, my thoughts, where I am not going to be so attached to it. So each time that I am not attached to something, it sort of, well it's there, but it disappears for a while, and within such a short time, there's that freedom.

So it's like the monk with the, if I stop getting attached to it every time a bit of fear or feeling comes I'm not going to label it. Just that sense of, you know, I'm alive, but I haven't got all the things that are filling it up. So like you're saying too, you know, when you had that, we're using the word space today, so you say in this space I'm feeling all these things. And I think for me I've understood it's really important not to be attached. So as I do that, no matter what it is, my life just seems to be a little bit freer or lighter.

Lighter is the word? Lighter. You know, less judgements, less labels, whatever. Yeah, so I always listen to fixation, letting it go, stop being attached to things, stop trying to label things or make them important because they're all just mental concepts. And then that's not... it's an appearance inside ourselves I guess, but it's not what we are. Yeah, kind of. If I can use language, I'm trying to portray something that doesn't have any words. That's beautiful. If you get what I mean. Thank you. I've actually experienced what you experienced. It happened to me three, three and a half years ago. And when it first happened it was kind of scary at the same time because you start to see these holographic, you know, everyone was just in the holographic pattern.

And exactly as I said, the space between those holographics, I could identify myself with that space, but not with these holographic. I was looking at my hand, it was kind of holographic. Then when it happened again, but this time I surrender and then I realized I am inside the consciousness. Like a big ocean of consciousness and I am inside of it, inside the mind. Mind is inside me. I am the mind, and I am the form. I saw the big picture, then everything just became one. And then I became so peaceful in a level that I think was kind of one part of the consciousness.

Maybe it was kind of higher level of consciousness, but it was just, there was effortless flow. It was just going without any resistance Without any resistance it was just going flowing And those senses were within me I could actually use them as a tool that observed these beauties and everything There was like a magnificent discovery thing was happening. So I think in a way, you mentioned like a free sense. It actually works, but also based on my own experience, when I was becoming aware of my senses, I can see beauty or I can see ugliness. So again, that consciousness running behind actually is everything. So I think maybe it's just surrendering, you know, if it happens again, just surrender whatever it is and see where it's going to take you, I reckon.

Thank you. Thank you. Adam? So we talk a lot about awareness in these meetings. And that's because it's the most important thing. That's what this is all about. It's about awareness. But when people start talking about awareness, It's pretty obvious that people have a very massive, dense concept about what awareness is. And you can't conceptualize awareness. This is where we fall into a hole because we're trying to understand what awareness is. But awareness fundamentally is non-conceptual. You can't talk about awareness because awareness just is. Are you unaware right now? All kinds of concepts come up about what awareness is, but awareness simply is just this, this recognition that you are.

And you can ask a very simple question, do I know that I am or do I believe that I am? And the obvious answer to that question is that you know that you are, you know that you are. You don't believe it because the knowing that you are is just obvious and it comes from the non-conceptual. If you're going into a concept and trying to understand what... like if you start to ponder, oh yeah, do I know that I am? Do I believe? Do I know? You're going into a story. Because the obvious answer is I know, I know that I am. And that's really all that it is.

This is what the so-called awareness is. When concepts come up and thoughts and ideas come up, it seems to cloud it. There's an apparent clouding. But what are you without a thought? Have a really good look and have a look at what you are without any concept, without any thought, without anything, just complete zero. What are you? You are present and aware, just pure consciousness. And that's really all that Bob is pointing out, just this consciousness, which is no thing. And the whole idea of a me and the idea of a person, this is a story, a story that's It's built up of words, ideas, images, memory.

All that go in to constitute the story of me. And the story of me arises and this me now wants to try and find awareness, wants to try and understand what awareness is and da-da-da. And there's this whole circle of concepts going on. But in the absence of all of that there just pure awareness consciousness no thing zero zilch That it What are you without a thought Yes, thank you, of course. And Bill says, Right now you know your thoughts, emotions, ideas, concepts. Have a look. You know everything. There is only knowing. You are that knowing. You even know the sense of I Am. You are prior to the sense of I Am.

I Am is the first concept at the same time as the I Am appears, the world appears. Beautiful. Thank you. And I really wanted to hear Jamie today and it didn't happen. You want to just recap quickly? I've already been so much said. Yeah, but, no? I'm happy to say something. Please, just recap. We don't have you very often and I love the way you say that. I guess the only thing I could add reflecting on what Ram was discussing and we've already established the fact that I am. We can all confirm that. It's non-conceptual so it can't be, it's difficult to talk about it but what we can talk about and something that really struck me is that Herman, Herman isn't it?

He made the differentiation between natural intelligence and artificial intelligence. And that really sort of struck me because it's a beautiful way to describe the process that's going on that wants to find this awareness, this artificial intelligence. There's a lot of talk like in the media now about is artificial intelligence conscious? Can it become conscious? And of course it can't, it's just a mechanical, it's a very clever mechanical behaviour that's very convincing that it's real and you can have conversations with it and even people having relationships with artificial intelligence and it's extremely convincing. And so is this artificial intelligence that believes it needs to find awareness and thinks that it can see and hear and feel and taste and touch, which is none of those things.

So I think that's a really good, that's something we can talk about and describe. What we are is a fact. The fact of our being is obvious and sometimes we go around in circles trying to, because it's the artificial intelligence trying to grok that which it never will do. I just thought that was brilliant. I liked your little spiel about the artificial intelligence. And that's all I'd like to say and just continuing on from Ram. It's a fact that we are present and aware. Like Bob said, start with the fact, you're already that. And then maybe we can have a talk about what might be coming up and obscuring that obvious fact.

I just really struck me about the artificial intelligence, kind of like the Siri going on in our head that believes it needs to find this awareness like the artificial intelligence. Is it conscious? Of course not. It could never be conscious, just as our own artificial intelligence is not conscious and aware. It's a process, a mechanical process. Very quickly, following the artificial intelligence and natural intelligence subject matter, a very well-known being in the world differentiates the memory of artificial intelligence and natural intelligence, which means the artificial intelligence, the AI, can operate from 5 million IQ, but then natural intelligence is memoryless. There is no memory in natural intelligence, therefore it is infinite.

Thank you. Beautiful. Oh, perfect. Thank you. Yes. That's excellent. Thanks, Simon. That was true diamonds. Thank you very much. And thank you, everyone. Thanks, Simon. Thanks, Paul.