Life translates. Sailor Bob and friends - nonduality investigation. 18 Aug 2024

Now. Nicole, Michael, Sheila, Franklin, Jane, Catherine, Joseph, Ross, Julia, Jacinta, Hansa, Salila, and Bob. Hi everyone. Good to see you. And the same old, same old. We talk about, we point to, The Oneness of Everything I think it's something hard that could need to find a problem to become something. Not recognising the simplicity and the actuality of it. That is all there is. That's the great mantra, I am that. And when you look around you see that's the chair you're sitting on. That's the carpet on the floor. That's the space in the room. That's the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. You realise that everything is that.

Vibrates and patterns into different shapes and forms. And we take the shapes and forms which are appears only to be separate. Absolute or the great perfection, another couple of ways they point to it. If it's absolute, what can be added to absolute? Nothing at all. What can be taken away from it? Nothing. So what's hard about that? Do you need to become that which already is so? If it's all only absolute, what's the point of trying to become absolute? And people say it's hard and difficult and they've got to do all these things, all these disciplines and things they put themselves through. Trying to become what already is so is pretty few-file and we don't realise it.

So it's just a matter of what they say, investigation, having a look and seeing for ourselves. Am I that reality? If I am the absolute, well have a look at that word absolute, what can you add to it? If you added anything to it, it wouldn't have been absolute, would it? If you can take anything away from it, it wouldn't be absolute. So if there's a recognition that everything is that absolute, who can be superior to? Who can be inferior to? And you want, what would you want from anybody else? You wouldn't need to because everything is absolute. and that is a great mantra. I am that.

And you know that. That's the chair you're sitting in. I went through that before I think. Everything is already that. But the pattern, shape and form is not the reality. I tell you that also the definition of reality is that which never changes Well have a look at this universe this manifestation What is it that never changes You realise the only thing that doesn't change is space. Can you find the beginning to space? Can you find a middle or a point or where it starts or where it ends? Does it have any boundaries? Does it have any limitations at all? And what is it? It is no thing.

Because this room is full of space. And these patterns, shapes and forms which are called you, me and the furniture and everything else I Am the One, I Am the One. Manifestation and the divine phenomena is that which appears to be. So you and I and everything else in this manifestation is appearance only. It's seemingly so and it appears to be different, appears to be a lot of separate things here, But in investigation you'll see it's all the one life, the one intelligence energy, the one essence that vibrates and patterns experiences and expressing as all those things. Well, how did this idea of separation come about?

Well, to say how did you come about? Can you remember your birth? No one here or anywhere else can remember your birth. Why? Because you had no words when you were born. How could I am so and so without any words. You couldn't. And the little child doesn't learn words. It was a year and a half or two years, somewhere around that age, when the capacity of reasoning develops. Up until that point, it's just seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, reasoning, But it hasn't got any words to think. It can make sounds, yeah. Those sounds which later on become words, are just noise, just sound as a vibration, a movement of energy.

Where did you begin? Well, go back and look at that body. Where did that, how did that happen? Well, go back and look at your father and your mother. Where did they come from? They began from their parents. And it goes back so far, it goes into the Tartars, that there is any beginning anywhere. It's all appearing so. I tell you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word. According to that, that's when it begins. The Word was with God. The Word was God. And isn't that the label we put on the higher power or what we call the great perfection? God, a Word we put on which seemingly discriminates it and makes it seem as though there's something greater than the rest of this manifestation.

All things are made by Him, by the Word. Have a look at your life. Anything in this manifestation that you haven got a label for you soon pick one up and put it on if you do it And there was nothing made without without Nwari So it's all word. And you didn't learn words until you were a couple of years old, when the capacity of reasoning developed. With that capacity of reasoning, you learnt words, I Am Little Johnny The belief goes into it and it's taken to be that no longer questioned. And so to say who we are years later, somebody asks you who you are, you still say I am Johnny or I am Jane.

You still take that name, shape and form to be what you are, the person. But then you look in a lot of the scriptures and things will tell you like Nisargad says, The person is not reality. It's just another word, another label. Persona, the mask. So now we've got this word person. I'm little Johnny which is a person, a human being. Another label. We call ourselves human beings. We believe in God, we've separated that idea of God. It becomes a supreme being, a being greater than what we are. What happens if I take that label, human, off and take the label, supreme, off and try and separate the beingness?

Without the word human, if I stop being, without the word supreme, if I stop being, you realise I can't negate the beingness. Cannot say I am not. And every other manifestation to his being, shaping and forming apparently, and we take these shapes and forms, we put the label on to be separate. But it is only the one essence that vibrates patterns, shapes and forms, and experiences There's everything. How did that little child come about? We'll investigate that too. Go back to your father and your mother. That life essence, that pattern shape, and calling your father. In that pattern, through the food he's eating and the air he's breathing, and the life that's in it, enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form.

You can't see it with the naked eye. But that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It wasn't just this little blob of goo floating around. It was suffused with life or intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in your mother. That animal life-examination with your mother enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle again called an egg or an ovum to form. And that egg was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus and the sperm, knowing what to do, swam to the overman. There are two physical things, two things that are happening. And were you doing it?

You say, well, I've got to send this sperm to the overman? No, I had no idea about it at all. But it happens that way and the little embryo is formed and that is what you are today. What did you do about it then? Nothing. It happened all the way through by itself. You had no say in it There wasn even a you to have any say in it And what are you doing I am the one who has the ability to do all sorts of things Well, if it could do that, it would be like what it tells you in Isaiah, be still and know that I Am is God.

It tells you that there. And we've taken that to be real. The I Am is the thought. But they're not talking about the thought. They're talking about the sense of presence. That presence-awareness that you are, you know there's a knowing there which translates as I am. We put the I am into the believed in person. I am is the absolute, it's still that one essence that's doing everything. As they tell you in the scriptures, I am that. And everything is that. And if that is everything, then I am is everything, not the thought, not the word, but the sense of presence. Is anyone here who is not aware of being present?

You'll say, I'm not aware of presence. I am aware. There is a presence-awareness right with you right now. And it's not a past awareness, it's not a future awareness. It's an awareness that is right with you right in this moment. Now ask yourself again, catch it right now. Is anyone who is unaware right now? Nobody jumping up and saying I'm unaware. Why? Because you know naturally and effortlessly this is what I am. Not the awareness as the thought, but what it represents. The life, the beingness, the knowingness, the loving to be, which is another way they describe it. Satyutinanda, existence, consciousness, bliss or being, knowing and loving to be, or awareness of being is the bliss of the same.

Different ways they put the same thing. It's said in many, many different ways. Simple, straightforward and open. But it's lost sight of or ignored. And they even tell you that in the scriptures they say. They say it's ignorance. We hear that term and think, oh I'm dull, stupid, haven't been able to realise that I worked this out, so I'm ignorant. I am the one who has the power to change the world. Anything outside of space. And there's nothing you can post later, I think, that can be outside of space. It's all a dawning space in the different patterns, shapes and forms which are taken to be real.

So now we've got all these concepts, words, thoughts and ideas, which we picked up along the way as we learn words, we learn more words, go to school and learn more words again, Continually picking up more words, thoughts, ideas and images. But the word is not the thing. Have a look and see. Take the word order. Try and drink the word. Try and swim it. See if you can drown in it. You realize you can't do any of those things with the word. So the word water can't be the thing itself. For the word fire, and the word I or me, or any other word, all the words are concepts, ideas or thoughts which we've picked up.

And that's what's happening with this pattern, as that capacity of conceptualising, of knowing, of being. And it utilizes the word which is not the real. But we take it to be the real. So we got this conceptual pattern or image. And they tell you that in Buddha. The great perfection, which is the same as absolute, nothing can be added to it or taken away. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. As I say, there's nobody who's unaware right now. How many concepts have you got going on with it right now? What happens if you drop the concept or pause the thought? What can you say without a thought?

You realize you can't say anything at all. A thought will come up and appear, But it's not you saying it, it's happening, it's coming up by itself because when I ask you what your next thought is going to be, you'll say I don't know. And of course you don't know because it doesn't come up. But you know immediately it comes up and you claim it then. But the thought, you don't know. But thinking happens. And the thought will arise. As soon as that thought comes up, what do we do? Out of habit and misunderstanding, we claim it. I am thinking this thought. Me, Bob, the Australian, the Goodfellow, or whatever concept I have about myself, this person is thinking this thought.

And they're all thoughts itself too. Can a thought think itself? Can the thought I think think? It cannot think. Thought I see, see. Close your eyes and see what you can see with the thought. You won't see too much. Thought I hear, hear. If you take and shut my earphones off now and I can't hear anything. So the ear's not telling me I hear. So the thought can't do any of these things. Because we've labelled it under this word we believe it's doing everything. This I, this me, which is just a word, a label, now thinks it has the capacity of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, living, being and doing all these things.

But it can't do anything. Thought I see, thought I think comes up and you claim it. I think. So then, with the claiming of it, you believe you are the thinker. And the thinker is the subject. Now instead of just being thinking there, there is subject, this so seeming subject, I think, which is me, which is I. I think, I do, I feel, I taste, I touch, I smell, all labelled with this conceptual image, I. And that's all I is, is a concept. The sense of presence, the awareness of being. I am. Just a sound, vibration. That's all a thought is, is word. Word-sound. Sound's a vibration.

And the vibrations and movement of energy. All these thoughts and sounds are just vibrating energy. And when you look at the patterns, shapes and forms in it, you'll realise that they're just vibrating patterns of energy also. Just vibrating and appearing as something real Like you look in a mirror What the mirror A pane of glass with a coating over the back And what happens when the coating goes over the back Instead of seeing straight through as a pane of glass, you're seeing what's reflected in it. Now the reflections are appearing in the mirror. Have a look in the mirror. You can't say they're not there, can you?

But you know if you go and try and grab a reflection out of the mirror, you won't grab anything except the glass. Because it's only an appearance in the mirror. It's not the actual thing. When you look at your thoughts, try and grab a thought. Try and grab the thinker, the thinker of that thought. I think. You can as you can. Shakespeare points that out when he says, there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. So now, which we don't realise, we've got this problem of thinking. Because thinking is a vibration. And it vibrates in the interrelated opposites. You're either in the past, which is memory, or the future, which is anticipation, imagine, or somewhere in that space, wherever it is.

But it's always vibrating and seemingly dividing into words, concepts, ideas and images which are not the real. And they tell you that too in the scriptures when they say it's a phenomenal manifestation. All this manifestation, you, me and everything else in this room and everything else are phenomena. Look up your dictionary and the definition of phenomena. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. Appearance, it means seemingly so. Like the water in the mirror, the blue sea. Some of the others are a snake in a rope. Many other metaphors though, yes. To point out that these things which are seemingly real I Am the body.

This is me. What's the body made of? When you look into it, you see the body is made up of elements. So your corpse can come up and can be cut up into different The mind is a vibrating pattern of energy. The same thing with the mind. People say my body, they say my coat, my car, my house. The things we put this eye on, we claim to be me, what I am. I am the coat, I am the car, I am the house. No, that's impossible. But you still say it. But the same with the body. And you look at that and see that that's impossible too.

So, you won't claim it because what's the body made of? It's made up of elements also. Air, earth, fire, water, space. That's what the body's made up of. Take the water out of your body. See how long you're gonna last without the water. Take the air, stop breathing. You won't last very long. Take the fire, the body temperature. Remove those elements from the body and what have you got? Have you got a corpse then? What's that corpse? It can be broken down. It can either be burnt or buried or decomposed, broken down into, decomposing into dust and the dust can be broken down into space.

Where did it come from? It formed out of space and formed into something Made up of those space elements and it goes back into space So we got this concept of birth and death You can't remember your birth and you won't know what your last breath is. You don't remember what you were before your birth and you won't think you won't remember what you are after your death. You won't because what are you going to remember through it? Even some of the elements know what to do without thinking about it, forming into different things. But it's all happening naturally and spontaneously by the one life, the one intelligence energy, the one essence, seeming superior being.

But as it is only the one, it can't be superior or inferior. It's all just as it is. So we drop that concept of better or worse and leave everything as it is. I am a witness. See more details about the show at http://www.youtube.com.au The clouds have seemingly obscured it. When you ask yourself what forms the cloud, you realise the sun itself forms the cloud. The sun doesn't know anything about a cloud, never will know anything. And the cloud doesn't know anything about the sun, and never will. But the sun in its radiance, in its heat, will evaporate water. And the water will rise and cool down and form a cloud.

And the cloud will cool down and come down. As rain, as water, turn into ice, come solid again, then liquid again, then in. That's the way the whole function is going on. Seemingly dividing, seemingly separate, but never separating, never dividing. The one essence that pattern, shapes and forms. Now you are that. Because that's what they call it. Awareness. Are you unaware? We pointed that out before, you can't say, I am unaware. That awareness is there, but the word awareness again, it's not the word. Just a label we've put on it. And they tell you that in the scriptures too, they say the great perfection Non-conceptual awareness.

That awareness without concepts. What are we doing? With all this thinking that's going on we're continually contaminating the great perfection. We're not getting a true taste of it. Tasting the concepts, ideas and images and locking into them and letting them form more images which will be fear, pain, resentment, guilt, jealousy, envy, all these psychological problems come about from the concepts and ideas and image we've built on these words. Now we've got this entity that instead of being the pure me, that I am Bob the poor, miserable, unhappy, person that's having a bad trot, the world's dirty on me and I don't like this one and I hate that and I'll get even.

And all these concepts going on all to a fiction all to something that doesn exist the so ego I think it was who was it somebody that coined the word ego What was his name Freud. Freud, wasn't it? That's only a few hundred years ago. And they say in the scriptures, when E goes, I go. And that's the true one too. When you get rid of the ego, what are you going to relate to as I? And that's what they're telling us. The ego needs to go because it's not true. It's a fiction. And they end loudly proclaiming all the time, know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Know it. Don't just think about it or believe it. See it. Test it out. Are you unaware? No, I am aware. So I am the life itself, not the word, but that life is translated as the thought I am. So when I am the life, that is all there is, there is only life. As Nisargadatta told you, there is nobody who lives life. Life lives on life. For out of life, more life comes. And isn't that what happened with you? Didn't you come from life? Didn't your parents come from life? So there is only life. Nobody lives. The pattern, shapes and forms might break down, but the life itself has never been added to or anything taken away.

And because it's not divided, it's free of the concepts. It's what they call the great perfection, the absolute. And you are that. So, as we point out here, and point out also that quite a few here today, that have seen it and understand it, and mightn't have understood it years ago, like it wasn't understood here years ago, but seen today. And so you are the ones that can point it out that others may see it. Because that's how it's passed on through the ages. Passed on by word amount. People can sense that life energy in the words and recognise it. In that recognition they call it a cognising emptiness.

Now the words, patterns, shapes and forms, thoughts, ideas are all empty, as we said before. But they have the capacity of cognising, or knowing, or being. And the Buddha told us that when he called it cognising emptiness, he said emptiness is form. There's quite a few forms in this room, isn't there? You realise you're all empty. You all know things. Well you don't. Well while you don't you're in problem. Be better if you're dead. Emptiness is form. And he said emptiness is forms and the forms though they're appearing to be solid are nothing other than the emptiness. So whether you like it or not you are that emptiness.

And I think, from my understanding anyway, it's better to know that because it's made the living a lot easier. So, Cat, I'll just take over now and you can get the chance to speak and carry on with the meeting. Thank you. We have welcome everyone who is online with us. We have a few comments from people who have been

And there is... Oops! Catherine and James says, love to you all. And Debra, hello Bobcat and the group. Anika says, good morning Bobcat and dear Sangha of Oneness in Love. British Julia says, Bob, you found the secret of anti-aging, you could make billions. Susan says, love you Bob.

Gilbert says, this moment has no age, no beginning, no end. British Julia one essence, indivisible, timeless, boundless, still all concepts, it is indescribable. This was when Bob was talking about non-conceptual awareness. How wonderful to actually use concepts to point to non-conceptual awareness. How else would you point it if you didn't have the concepts to use? Jan says thank you Bob and hello Bob and Kat from Robert and no questions. Oh, Caroline says love to Bob, Kat and everyone. So no questions. That makes the mic stick go to you guys and you could highlight whatever resonated the strongest in the spiel Thank you for the interview.

Basically, what resonates with me today was that when we spoke about the concepts, the psychology, the ego, and when you spoke about everything goes back to dust and back to spice, I have a lot of questions. It is all exists in the thoughts and the thoughts only exist to space basically because the dust can't think and talk. The question came up, why do we have that psychology, the ego, and the thoughts, and why everyone talks about it? Why questions? It's sort of like, why is it actually, let's say, seeming to be there, and it's always been talked about, And there's psychologists and there's these and it sort of brought up that question.

Because like the triggers which they sometimes come up they are reactions in situations. They're literally not thinking that it happened. Like, that happened. And then it like well why is this happening I asking myself why is this trigger happening I haven really thought anything or it just happens And Bob says the ego doesn't exist. It makes sense to listen to it because it's a concept. Why is it actually happening then? That's sort of the real thing because like you know you the jealousy and all these emotions you they're not as comfortable to feel and they are a fiction but it's still happening so it's sort of weird like not even I feel like for me sometimes not even that I'm I'm thinking about it oh yeah that's not what I'm not thinking about it I was there like okay that's I am not sure what happens, but it's very interesting.

Everything just came up, why is actually everything seeming to be on a psychology level, in life, with your kids and friends and work and all these things we do about. Yeah, I don't know. That's just... I don't know if Bob can say something to it or not, or Kat or anyone else. Yeah. You want to know why? Yeah. Yeah, conceptual understanding. You could have been a tree. Yeah, no. Or a flower. Yeah. Or a magnet. Maggot. Yeah. Which one? I think you'd be pretty fortunate enough to realize that you've been given this idea of being a so-called human to start off with. Yes, the tree would be much easier.

Because you don't have to deal with all this. You're imagining it. I was going to say, not necessarily a dog might weigh on you. They wouldn't care. Yeah, imagining, imagining. A tree would be just very simple. See, you imagine how it would be to be a tree, imagine how the dog would be, you imagine how you would not respond to the dog, he wouldn't care. How about the direct experience? And you are looking for the conceptual understanding why. You are looking for a story. And you also have, maybe, that's how it sounded, the idea that if you don't think, shame shouldn't happen, or unpleasant sensation shouldn't happen.

Hey, I'm doing the right thing, why is it happening? Look at the wildlife, look at the birds, how they fight their wars, the territorial wars. I have a message for you. Even a little bit of humility feels when you don't have a concept that it shouldn't be there. What a beautiful emotion, rich and juicy it is, that the body brings up to the surface because of different 10,000 things happening in the environment, inner and outer environment, cooperating. I am a person who is not afraid of anything. And there is a sense that whatever is happening is uncomfortable, absolutely. Because there is this loving to be behind it that wants only pleasure and comfort.

So whenever there is discomfort, that loving to be, it's a little bit kind of crunched, isn't it? But it is still mind-blowing, incredibly deep and juicy experience of life itself. I have quite a lot of humbling experiences around when different things happen and as unpleasant as they are they also yummy They incredible They just really keep all that sense of you know oh this is all about me the grandiosity that me should only have pleasure me should only be experiencing comfortable feelings. Completely at bay, there's no me. And life will bring day and night, pleasure and pain, cold and hot, all of it. And psychological phenomena is part of it.

And as Bob said, you know, how wonderful to be human and have that richness. Maybe tree wouldn't have that richness. Or maybe it would. Yes, Bob? You might be sitting on a tree now. Four boards of a tree once. Yes, yes, correct. Yeah. I think Bob mentioned in the spiel also that thoughts arise and there's a response, as you say Joseph. I think that's a good question actually what was brought up. Thoughts will arise out of response but then if we just continue and add to those thoughts and sort of relate it to a me, The It sort of snowballs into a story and therefore a solid, seemingly solid image.

Then it becomes problematic. So, you know, like seeing that that's the way we are conditioned from a very young child in that belief, and in a way that's what we're sort of here to dismantle, you know, to undo in a way that belief. And as has been said, anything can arise, but it's that belief, the energy of belief that goes into it that creates the problem. And what I've seen is that, you know, the whole gamut can arise, but at any given moment, The Did you want to say something? Also, one thing I heard once years ago which sometimes helps is ego is your vegged God out.

So you've actually taken away, you've believed in your thoughts and you haven't believed in the absolute as Bob talks about. What is interesting, so when you say that, the belief and you mentioned the belief, that belief could be very unconscious. I am not thinking in this moment, me or this and that, it just happens. So I am like, there are certain things that I am thinking, I am like, oh, that was happening then and then I feel this emotion and this happens. And I am like, yeah, that is a thought, okay, that is not real, okay, I can drop that. But then there's this moment in the moment when it happens, and then this moment happens without the thinking.

When I think back in this moment, I feel the same feeling what I was feeling when I wasn't thinking in this present moment. I don't know if you can follow. But then when you spoke about the belief seeming to be unconscious of the me, that actually probably arises in the first place. I was just trying to understand what when Bob says if you don have the concept of the ego life would be more pleasant in this It not exactly that It not about not having a concept It about realizing that what stands behind concept is non There is no such thing. But I have a couple of comments here also from people who are online with us.

No, no, I'm going to read from the screen. Thank you. So Mario says, thanks Bob, spot on. Nagash says, thank you Bob, how to constantly stay in the I am? How to get out of it? I think there are some responses about it as well. Jack says, thank you for this, please can you advise what we should do when we don't feel so great? I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the world. The body-mind is an appearance, however how to know this experientially? Pain arises, physical or mental, pain is an experience in consciousness, but how to dissociate from it? Good morning, beautiful Kat and Bob and everyone, Jojo from Esperance.

If all is just happening, how is it that there is no experiencer or doer? What is experiencing or doing? British Julia says, now when I experience friction it is a great chance to see which part of the ego needs love. It is reflection. Hmm, is there an ego? Nagesh says, struggling between witnessing versus experiencing. What is the difference? And he or she also says intellectually it is understood that this waking state is just like dreaming but how to realize this experientially. And Bradley says enjoy the smell of Cuban cigars but no longer smoke. And Charlotte says Julia has nice jumper. Okay, so shall we get back to the start?

How to stay in the I Am? How to stay in the I Am? And I joke how to get out of it. And see if there is anyone, anywhere, who should stay in something that you call I Am. If you can actually separate anyone who is not aware and present right now and who needs to stay or leave the I Am. That's the question, because if there isn't anyone there who can leave the I Am or the sense of presence, then the question is resolved. That question is also the answer. Which question? How to stay in the I Am? Well, can you find the one who can stay in the I Am?

Yeah. That's the answer. The question. Just want to show your jumper. Tebow, just so you know. There's still a few left. I'm feeling a little guilty, but I saw it and I couldn't help myself. I let it go. It's just a story. It's a story. It's an Amazon story. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, no, but that is, I think the answer is just the question. This is that same question. How to stay in the I Am? Who needs to find, who needs to, yeah, how can you not? Or it's the questioning, really, it's just the question. Yeah. Who gives a shit? And what is the I Am, really?

Yeah, we're keeping it as a question. These are questions, that's the answer. Question it. Keep questioning. Keep questioning. Yeah, that's a good answer. Keep questioning. There's your answer. Question. Yes, because there is quite a few wrong assumptions. It's not only the wrong assumption that there is someone to stay in the I Am who could leave the I Am and who is not presently in the I Am. It's also the idea that there is someone who can do that, choose to do that or not to do that or get it right or get it wrong. And then when you question it, the faster

This doesn't stand up to the investigation.

That's the beauty of that question. That's why it's the answer. As you come back to this, it always brings you back to... Well, I just shut up, I can't say words, so... But it brings... that question is just a... I mean, if you want to practice, there it is, like... But it has to be genuine, I think, because otherwise it could be a mantra and a thing, and there's a me that's doing it, and blah blah blah. But if it's a genuine inquiry, who can have an ego? Who can become realized? Who can die? Who can be born? Who does anything? There isn't anything. There isn't.

But there's a conversation seemingly that a lot of people have a belief that there is something to overcome. You know, that I have to, well, kill it. I have to die. I have to not be an ego. I have to become. I have to realize. I have to and I think that that is a that really forces this me this idea of a me just this belief that I have to become there's a me I have to right but who gives a fuck who needs to do anything there's the answer and then if I just ask that and I continue it I think that's a question that like shows up a lot okay but I think that is the answer really is just inquiring just there I'm Thinking is the answer.

You get the point. But really, there was also questions about experiential, how to experience the nonduality. Again, how to experience, what to do when the body is unwell, when the body feels a little uncomfortable, there is a vertigo. What I do, because I've had some discomfort like recently, I kept up all night in pain from my tooth. And I did Panadol and I did what I could do but you know when it's agonizing and I'm going into the story of what it means and oh my god and how come this is happening and what did I do and that doesn't seem to help. And it's gonna get worse.

Yes, it's gonna get worse and now oh my god I'm gonna have no teeth and oh my god I can kill myself because of the pain of teeth. But if I just drop out of the blah blah blah and the story of what it should be or could be or what it was and blah blah blah and I just go to the direct experience of it and feel it without the commentary about it, it's not as bad. It's just something I noticed though. I mean it's just the resistance that creates the, that makes it more uncomfortable. So, and then that was something I noticed as a child living in New York, because I remember I used to have to like go to the bus stop and walk down the driveway and stand outside waiting for the bus in the cold and it was, Australians don't know what cold is.

Just saying, you don't know. You've got to live in sub-zero freezing, like where it really hurts, okay? And then wait at a bus stop and it was painful. It was like, and I'm going like this, you know, and then I was just noticing my body going like this. And then there was this, alright, well, you know, what happens if I just make the body, like it was a noticing, I just experimented with relax, you know, and I relaxed into it and there was still an awareness of the cold. You can do this. You can go to the refrigerator section at Costco or a grocery store in a t-shirt and you'll get cold.

But if you experiment with this, you'll notice that you can have the physical discomfort of that. But when we're not fighting it and pushing against it, and I think most of the fighting is up here, but there can be a bodily resistance to it too. You know, like a, and that's what's happening when I'm doing this. Right? But if you just, and this is a how-to, and it has nothing to do with, I don't think, with nonduality, really. No. But it's helpful if you're in a lot of pain. I don think the nonduality thing really helps answers the pain question does it Utah Yeah I think it was Alan Watts who first said this in one of his books He said, when the light flashes, how many things are there?

When the light flashes, how many things are there? There's only flashing. There's not a light and flashing. And this is what we do with self. We talk about me and what I do. And it's exactly the same thing. It's splitting up just what is into two. This is what the mind does all the time. I love when Bob sometimes actually pauses another question when people put that question. What do I do? What did you do? And Bob says, what did you do about growing in the womb? What did you do about that? About growing your heart or your brain? What did you do about taking that breath right now?

You have never ever done a thing. The idea that there is something I could do or I should do, something that I should be doing, is a wrong idea, it's a misguided idea right from the start. If there is pain in the body, what is nature doing already? You just be what you are, the space, the space-like awareness, the sky-like awareness, the witnessing presence, in which the nature is already doing the pain, is already resolving the pain. If the pain is calling for attention, attention effortlessly go there, you are not doing it. Just realise and notice how you are never ever doing anything. Even if there is cold and the body is shivering and crunching, yes, animals are doing that too, but they are not doing it.

Nature is doing that in the animal's body or in human body. In human body also, the nature is doing excessive narrative. Oh shit, it shouldn't be happening to me, it will be worse. But again, I am not doing that. Even if the narrative is happening, as Bob pointed earlier, I don't know my next thought. I am not doing it. There is only one doer and that is life essence, that is intelligence energy. If you give credit where credit is due and recognize that every doing ever happens through that same one presence or one omnipotence, Bob often points out, you know, that is an omnipotence means a total power.

The power behind your heart beating, the power behind your narrative, the power behind the beliefs, the energy, the attention moving. The Life doing arguing, life doing toothache, life is doing it all. And there was a question, so, enjoy the smell of Cuban cigar, Bradley says, but no longer smoke. As the image of me imagines pain, shame, fear, sad and lonely, I can enjoy that aroma, but I don't have to inhale. Very poetic. Beautiful. And British Julia says, oops, sorry, it just swapped away. Yeah, British Julia says, there is no ego. Swap the word I used for conditioning perhaps. Yeah, that kind of makes it clearer.

My experience has been to love all parts which then allowed clarity, presence, awareness to take over. Life is doing it anyway. I didn't do a thing. Yeah, beautiful. Leaving space for everything. Just being completely neutral space or sky awareness for everything that arises Unconditionally accepting what is because that what is There is no point resisting it I mean if resistance happens be that field accepting field including that resistance as well And then what questions can you ever have if the question arises what is it? It's just another phenomena appearing in that witnessing presence, in that consciousness that you are. And does that question then needs to be answered?

No, it doesn't, if it's recognized for what it is. It's just the line of words or it's just a sound passing through the space. And what's wrong with writing if I don't think about it? Absolutely. Yeah, that is always a good question. And what's the answer to that? What is that? I see. It doesn't need the answer. The answer is experiential also. There were questions. Struggling between witnessing versus experiencing. What is the difference? See, this is exactly the difference. Looking from the mind and looking for differences, Looking for divisions, looking for more language and just being in a plain non-conceptual awareness, which doesn't care how you label it, whether you label it experiencing or you label it witnessing or you label it whatever.

It doesn't. Non-conceptual doesn't contain any concepts. Non-conceptual awareness is direct experiencing without needing to label it, divide it, differentiate it I am a woman, I am a woman. There really is just that one, just that one moment. Experiencing the content of this moment, whether you call it witnessing, consciousness, life essence, awareness, God, whatever. It really doesn't matter. Putting more concepts buries it deeper down under the layers and the layers of the mind. So, also Nagar says intellectually it is understood that this waking state is just like dreaming, but how to realize it experientially? Bob, you want to jump on that one? Intellectually understanding that life is like dreaming, but how to realize it experientially.

Thank you for the questions. Sorry for the smile. It's actually just, we love the questions. Although we can't help but really give them a smile. Because there is no such thing as intellectual understanding. Intellectual is a belief, it's not understanding. I am not sure if you can understand what I said earlier. Therese B. Adler, Vice President, University of North Africa, London. It includes a me into all of that and it says how can I do this And and and why why should this happen And and so this is the this is the mind adding to what just happens. But there was just happening. There was nothing else but happening!

You know, nothing! And, and, and as soon as the me comes into it, it It wants to know and it wants to decide and it wants to do and it wants to ask questions. Okay? So, but there is just happening, finish, nothing else. And no thing happens. Nothing ever happens. I remember just on top of that, just to add to that, we're veering away slightly from the original question now, I remember Bob used to always say that the mind is very closely aligned to that intelligence. And I have noticed that too, that something happens and as you were saying, Cole, immediately the mind translates what actually happened into words.

Words are a kind of a slice, like a concept taken out of just experiencing. It then is naturally relative because you can't have a concept without comparing it to something else. That's the nature of concept, isn't it? Relativity. I remember Bob used to often say that the mind is so closely aligned to that natural knowingness that you can almost not make a distinction. It just happens so quickly. And I think that's what kind of can trip us up, is that it just happens so immediately, that translation into words, that we don't even kind of know that it's happening. The For example, another little thing yesterday I was watching a really beautiful David Attenborough documentary about the Galapagos and how all the animals on the different islands slowly slowly adapted to the environment.

And you know the wings of a bird may have been shortened or you know different things happen. And you can really get that sense that the intelligence is there doing everything you know. And it knows, it's this knowing intelligence that is operating in animals and in us you know, doing it all. And it's like from a very, very small, minute animal to the greatest of animals, that it's all that intelligence energy, that one life which is incredibly intelligent operating. And of course the animals don't think, don't have that capacity to think, but you know, it's just our capacity there. Anyway, that's it. But I think we need to go back to what you were saying to that question, the experience of wanting to experience that.

Yeah. Because that was one of the questions. But also, do you want to say something, Ross? I was just going to say something about the intelligence energy. I'm a man who sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest. I was driving down a road probably I've driven down a thousand times before and for some reason I turned my head to the right and on the right there's this magnificent house

I was in a room that was really crystal clear and detailed and perfectly formed, but I've never seen it before. And then I realised the one next door was just as amazing. I've never seen that before.

And that's the way it was. It's always been on the periphery of the vision, I was really impressed by the way you say that you've got a vision. Because you're driving down a road and this car is coming towards you. And you miss all this stuff, amazing stuff that the intelligence energy is just manifested in that moment. I Am The One So there's zero and then it seems like it becomes one. It never does because there's something that's always there. It doesn't matter what all the story is and all the noise and whatever it's saying doesn't really matter. It's all there, but the zero is still in the background.

You can't not be there. There's not something there that witnesses all that or experiences it all or feels it all. The zero is always there, but it kind of feels like zero or one. I am the one. And then, it's not really, but it feels like you're in one. But it's nice to play with that because it doesn't matter where it's going. As soon as you notice it going, you can just go, zero. Oh, zero. And just go back to zero. If you can catch it, when you catch it. It doesn't matter how long it takes to catch it. As soon as you catch it, just go, oh, zero.

Zero is still there. Yeah, go back to zero, nothing ever happened. Anyone else? Bob, did you want to say something about that intellectual understanding of dreaming and experiencing? How to experience the dreaming as... No? It's a metaphor, it's like dreaming. We say it is like dreaming. And I love the way Catherine actually described how the dreaming happens, really. I mean there is a plain experiencing happening and then the mind which is really interpreting service, which is really a translating mechanism, straight away make it to a story. Someone looks at you and, oh, they give me a stinky eye. Why? Because I didn't have a breakfast today.

The same look would be interpreted completely differently if I did, if I had my hot chocolate or something. And, oh, they gave me attention. You can see this is, whatever is happening is completely unbiased. It's just what's happening. And then the mind comes and makes a story. And when I say mind, I don't mean it to be anything sentient, ego, sentient, me, whatever. There is nothing sent in there, it's just a piece of software that interprets what's happening. And it interprets according to the circumstances. If I have a breakfast, if it's a nice sunny day, and if generally everything is kind of aligning in a sort of a positive framework, the interpretation is highly likely to also be positive.

And because it's all contextualized, it's all inseparable, everything is one, so every element of that oneness is playing part and affecting every other element. This is how the dreaming overlay happens in the experience. There is an experiencing and there is an interpretation of the experiencing. And that interpretation is always biased. That interpretation is always coming from past experiences and conditioning. It will be overlay of that past experiences and conditioning that will interpret the experience for me And that a dreamlike because that not what objectively happening That why we have the therapy we have reframing we have NLP we have all sorts of things which in one little piece of questioning can turn around the whole story from being negative to being positive, ultimately aiming at dropping a story altogether and being free from the story.

It's really helpful to be free from the story just by noticing the story, you know, that there is a story. The question I think was about experiencing. That's sort of... How to realize dreaming experientially? Now it's all dreaming. It's simply because if you go to this illusion of time, like the beginning of this meeting is not happening now. It's only in memory. And I might not even remember exactly as it was, so it's only happening here. It's not happening now. And the same goes with this imaginary future. And when somebody said to me, you know, it's true, we just finished the Olympic Games. And I remember hearing somebody say that somebody won a sport by a tenth of a thousandth of a second.

Like that's a tie. A tenth of a thousandth of a second they won by that much. And so you can't even like, like go go back in the past a tenth of a thousandth of a second ago. I'm going to read a few more. So, I think that's all we have to say. So, anything, any word that we use at all is a conceptual filter that just takes us out of the reality and puts us in dreaming. Does that make sense? Like, to me, that's how I guess, when somebody gave me that tenth, or a thousandth of a second ago, I'm like, that's what, that's how, what, too much?

Go ahead. I am a woman. The answer that Bob often quotes from Nisargadatta about the dream is, regardless of what was before the dream, dream is not your problem. Dream is not your problem. The dream will go on. Whether you realize it is a dream or you don't realize it is a dream, the dream is going to go on because this projector, as long as it operates, as long as the electric current goes in there, as long as that power of life is fueling it, is transmitting light out of this ice, the dreaming will be going on. I am not a problem. Your problem is that you like one part of it and not the other.

That there is an I. I prefer this. I don't want that. That sense of I, that imagined sense of entity that has a choice and a will to choose and is doing something right or is not doing it right or is wanting to do it correctly or wants to become someone or achieve something in the future because right now it doesn have it and there is something to be done I Am That Ramana Maharshi I Nchagiri Dzogchen Veda Vedanta presence Mahavakya The dream is not your problem because now that entity or that agency is completely open, is the field, open field that accepts everything as it comes and goes.

It doesn't even accept because there is no one there even to accept or reject it. It's just presence. And if there is a part that resists it, if there is a part that experiences sadness or humiliation or whatever, that doesn't say, doesn't mean that there is an entity there. It doesn't. It's just a piece of a software transmitting, interpreting whatever is the bodily response to the environment into the words of an I again. Even if the sentence is being said, oh, I feel humiliated or I feel angry, it doesn't mean that there is an I that feels it. It means that there is a sensation present and the mind translated as I see.

Like Bob often shows a line of questioning, the seeing is happening. Whoever starts the seeing when they wake up in the morning, how do you do that? Seeing is present, the capacity for seeing is present. Same with the capacity for thinking, for feeling, for smelling. The capacity is present. And now the eye, and Catherine was saying, the mind is very closely aligned with that intelligence. It is part of that intelligence, nothing is separated from that intelligence. So the intelligence appearing as the mind, which is a translating capacity. So it straightaway translate the capacity for seeing I Am Seeing, I Do the Seeing, I See You.

So that translation, that is what creates the dualistic, beautiful, colorful experience of the diversity and duality and relationship with everything in the dream. And being humans, naturally loving the stories, being storytellers and stories that are connecting us and joining us, The stories that create the civilization, create tribes, create countries. Hindus is quite religious actually. When I went to India I was like, wow, I've never seen a more religious place in my life. I mean everybody was like, whoa, very seemingly. What he said is, he said it was a political thing and you commented on that today also. You know, so it was the government decided that...

But the government is also life, remember? Right, the government is life. Yeah. I'm trying to say what it was that I was disagreeing with or that I was questioning what you said. Stories can join, stories can divide. Stories dividing, uniting, right. So the uniting story was Hinduism. That was the uniting story. But I think that the moment we go into a story at all or any thought, that's where we're dividing. Of course. So that's not uniting a story, a thought, it doesn't unite, but when there's no thought. But if you look at the civilization without the concept of nonduality, and you talk about the collective consciousness of women, suddenly you have a group of women connected, divided from the story of men, transgender, or mid-gender, or whatever.

But that's dividing also, just saying women. Of course, division creates groups. Without those groups there would be no countries, no nations. Maybe that's a good thing. Whether it is good or bad is a personal opinion. See if there is a person, because life is not wrong. If life gave people the capacity to think and create stories and languages and create nations and create join people victims of that crime I am not a victim of that or 12 programs That is not life being wrong That just what happening Thank you for your time Nothing is up to us. And life will be using it. And Mario says, as was said in other words, the crux of the issue is sometimes the choice between being smart or being willing to even be open, to be something that does not involve that feeling good sensation.

And Anika also likes your jumper, Julia. Yeah, and that's it. So storytelling is happening. Brendan, tell us a story. I'll say something. Please. So, something that's really pointed out to me today is that non-conceptual awareness and that nothing, like everything else changes but that. Awareness can see but it can't be seen. It can hear but it can't be heard. Of course it can't hear unless it has ears, right? Yes, so awareness of itself as the pure field of potentiality is blind, deaf and dumb and doesn't know its own existence. That's why it dreams itself a vehicle which translates that pure energy into seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

So it does it for itself because there is nothing else. So it can hear, but at the same time, yes, how could you objectify it if that's what you are? So everything comes and goes on that. And I think you said sky-like awareness. Yes. So that's, yeah, I like that, because it's like... Sky like space. Sky like space, yes. And the thoughts and the feelings come and go on that. Like an adornment. Yeah, like a club, yeah. Some people describe everything as an adornment. Yes. Thank you. Come tomorrow for Zoom. Yes, whoever is in, I think it is just around Americas, both Americas and Australia, the time zone that would be appropriate for you to join.

Bob and Julia and few other whoever wants to show up on Zoom meeting. All the details on the website and we have for European time zones and Asia and South Africa we have Zoom meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Okay, so thank you everyone. Did you want to say something Michael? Go on. I was just going to say on the tenth of a thousandth of a second, right? The I is the commentator saying and this one's coming first and that one's coming second. That's the I. And the reality is the one running the race. Beautiful. So last time I was here was seven years ago. And I just wanted to give my appreciation and really gratitude Thank you for just all that Bob has been doing for all these years and this clarity is just so...

I was, you know, I'm very touched and there's just so much love that I feel and just I wanted to give my appreciation. Thank you. Thank you. Good to have you here. And thank you everyone.