Recognize without any concept. Sailor Bob and friends. 7/07/24

Tony, Joe, Tass, Peter, Cole, Ross, Stola, Brendan, Marty, Gio, Ivan, Pratt, Evan, Tris, Navi, Lopi, Celila, Julia, Dane, Mitchell, Josh, and Bob. And we're going to amplify him a little bit. It's very quiet. Must be me. Well, nonduality is what we point out. One without a second, not two, only that. The Great Perfection, God, whatever label. You're taking my ears off, I can't. All different labels. We put on that, which in the scriptural traditions They call God or absolute and we've got all sorts of concepts about becoming realized or understanding or being one with it. Not realizing that it is already that one and it's only and ever that.

Always has been, always will be, and couldn't be anything else. This manifestation, when you have a look at it, seems to be real, but it's the one universe. And yet they say, looking out into the universe and all the different planets and stars, They'll say it can be many. And the human beings and all the rest of it needs to realise or become enlightened or one with God. And that's why so many of us enter the story. It's going to take a lifetime or even many lifetimes. And lots of other stories and tales they put on it. But what do they call it? They call it non-conceptual, ever-fresh, presence-awareness.

Space-like awareness. They say the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Anybody who is unaware right now, and you'll say, no, I'm unaware, you'll know it. Anyone who's not present, and you'll need to admit your presence, you're not past or You are not away from me, you are present. So what's difficult about that? If that is all there is. That's what I tell you. The great perfection is absolute presence-awareness. We make it so that we seemingly got to be come something or get something. And then this one says this and then somebody else says that. I Am Who is not present or is unaware right at this moment.

And that is all there is. For you, is there any other place than the here-ness or now-ness? You can postulate and think of all sorts of other places, all conceptual, all mind stuff. Past lives, new lives, different worlds, all the concepts, different countries. They're all concepts, all words. And they tell you that in the beginning was the Word. That's where it all begins, with the Word. The Word was with God, the Word was God. When we put this label God on it, this Word, among the many words we've learned, we've discriminated with putting a meaning into all the different words. So there are myriads and myriads of different words.

All things were made by the word and there was nothing made that was made without the word. But isn't that so? You've got words for everything. In this room for a start off, look out there in the world, you've got all different words. But the word is not the real when you look at it. Because they tell you that the false cannot stand up to investigation. And when you look into a lot of this manifestation, and you'll see the way it's appearing is not how it is. Many things out there that appear to be real, a little bit of investigation, you'll see they're not so.

When you look, move into it closely, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am. I believe that it is this seeming person, this separate entity, this individual, not realising that when you came into existence you didn't have any words. There was nobody that was born with any words. And you didn't pick up words until you were around about two, somewhere, it might have been earlier, a bit later, all depends how smart you were, but your fear was fussing I Am I am God, I am that I am. They're different statements they make in the Bible. So this sense of presence that each and every one of us will go, I am, that's all just pointing out the sense of presence.

And you are a presence and aware right now. So that's what it's referring to. Not the person, not the body, mind, pattern, shape and form that we think it is. But the very life that's expressing through that pattern, shape and form, and in this absoluteness, which it is, you can't add anything to absolute. You can't take anything away from it. And how could there be anything else So we don see that We take the person this body is expressing through to be separate But if you look at that absolute and realise that you are absolute you are all that there is patterning, expressing, and that's where the life essence is going through.

And it's going through that pattern you call you. It's not going through anywhere else in this room. Each one is a unique pattern that's expressing. And yet the others that are appearing in this pattern, like this room full of people I see before me, are all appearing in this presence-awareness that I am. And anybody out the room would know anything about these presences that are in this room. So that each and every one has made up their own conceptual world to appear in. But a lot seem to have the same concepts and ideas, so it seems a very familiar place to it. But there is only one essence, one what I call for a better term, intelligence energy.

I Am the One who is the One. Not a personal knowing, but a pure knowing. And energy is movement. And that energy is acting right now, as you're breathing, heart beating, words, speaking words, seeing things. So it's all the functioning is going through that particular pattern, which is the life that it needs to express through, for in its absoluteness it can't know itself. How can it... You can't go around saying that I am the head, I am the head or I am the hand. You've got to take yourself as what appears to be whole, you are the body. Not a part of it. And so when we got this idea that we are bodies we know we're separating ourselves from the absolute.

And if you recognize for instance you out looked at it and saw you were the absolute What can you do with absolute? Can you add anything to it? If you could it wouldn't be absolute, would it? Can you take anything away from it? If you could do that it wouldn't be absolute. And what if you recognise you are the absolute? Who can ever be superior to you? You think all these people superior are greater than I am and no more than I am and we're fearful of them? I Moula, Daringan, Rishit, Rishit, Purawa, Don't like this one and we think someone is different if you are absolute there's gonna be nobody's superior to you and can anybody be inferior to you we look down on this one and that one on the other one and think I was smarter than he is or she is but they couldn't be and what would you want from anybody else we think they've got this I Aam That, Raman Maha, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am.

Then you do what's happening here now, you leave it as it is and let it unfold as it does. Instead of trying to grab this and clink that, which I did for many years and got into a lot of strife, now leaving it as it is know that it is transient Everything is transient it constantly changing This body that you call you is transient right now There are thousands of cells that are in it right at this moment Not one or two but thousands of them And they being replaced What are we doing about that The Since you say I think, what have you done?

You've formed the thinker. This I or me, which is just a concept or a word we've known, you now believe it's become the thinker that's thinking this thought. And the thoughts that are thinking have become the object. So we've formed duality, subject-object. But can there be a subject, a thinker, without thinking? You don't know what your next thought is going to be. Without that thought is there still a subject? Only if you think about it. If you're not thinking about it, it's just as it is. And can there be an object? So there's, since the thought, I thought comes up, the subject and whatever the thought was has become the object.

Duality. And Shakespeare tells us this, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. So you see it's the thinking that is the problem. And what's happened with this thinking? Well we've learnt words, haven't we? Look at the little child before it reaches the age of two, two and a half or somewhere around that age, it's got no words. I was living quite well without the words, relying on experience a lot, of course, at that stage. But it had no words to do, to think with at the time. And the words didn't come upon it till about that time. Then we learnt all sorts of words and taken the word I and added all sorts of concepts onto it I Am Little Billy Nisargadatta Maha-Sangha, the You can't.

Lots of other words we take to be real. Look out in the space. What do you see out there? You see a blue sky. You look up into what is space and that's all it is really is space. You look up into space, no clouds in that. There's a semi-canopy over the space with a semi-blue colour. But space is empty. It's no thing. It has no beginning, no end, no division, no separation whatsoever. But we take and we see that the sky is not blue, though it appears to be. The same with the ocean. The ocean's water and water's not blue. But you look at it and you'll see a blue sea.

And the rainbow that appears in the sky, you'll say there are colours in the sky. But you're not saying there's only the sun shining through the mist that reflects on the clouds and breaks into colour. But there are no colours in the sky. In this house here that's got paper on the wall and crystal in the wall over there, the sun will fall

I Am That, Raman Maha, I Am Maha, I Am Maha. I Am That, Raman Maha, I Am Maha. We got these body-minds that appear to be so and take them to be real. But this body, my body, my mind, and what's the body made up of if I interested?

You realize the body's made up of elements, air, earth, fire, water, space, just like the elements around you. You can't see them up there, but you're breathing the air right now. You're drinking the water, which is H2O, hydrogen-oxygen, and it's phased with some other elements, and fire, and all these other elements. That's all this body is made up of, elements to be broken down into pure energy. So this body is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy, which we call a body. And worse than that we call it my body. Who is the my that's carrying the body? My, another word for my, is I or me.

So now I think I am, and that's the thought I am is the body, my. But if I am that body, this person, or mind person, you know, the thought at mind, I'd be frightened to let it go because it'd be the end of me. But yet I gladly go to sleep. I look forward to it going each night when I go to sleep. I am not the body and I am not the mind. Take that thought, or whatever I believe the mind to be, or this person of, what am I? What's this thing called mind? You realize mind is nothing but sound. Sound's a word.

Word's a vibration. A vibration's a movement of energy. And there are all sorts of sounds out there. A lot of them are broken down into words or noise. Animals have different sounds and they've learnt new words. But they remember things because of the words they learn. We go into a bit deeper because we can elaborate on those words and give them meanings into them, concepts and ideas on them. And so we've got a mental concept or a mental image of what we believe something to be. And see what that does to us. It's only me that can be unhappy. It's only me that can be fearful.

Only me that can be anxious or depressed. Yulti or jealous or envious, me is the cause of all the psychological suffering. And they are the effects of the cause. Cause and effect. Isn't that what they call karma? Cause and effect. But what happens if I look into the cause, me, and see it's just a mental image, it's got no substance or any independent nature. And I ask myself, can there be an effect if it's not related to the cause? Well, if it's not related to the cause, the cause, you see, is a concept, it's not a reality. What happens to cause and effect? It disappears.

So all these things I've been relating to are relative to me. The fear, the anger, the depression, the guilt, are just concepts that the energy of belief goes into and makes it seem to be real. And it causes a hell of a lot of suffering. Want to be free from that? You'll do what the ancients tell you when they look at it. They'll see, see, recognize and see what you're doing. You attaching all these stories all these concepts all these ideas onto I And that attachment you build up a mental picture And what do they say Detach I Am Non-conceptual awareness. Great perfection is non-conceptual.

It's non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any of those concepts. You see it's known. Knowing it, take it to be real and utilize it. Instead of just saying it's known is a good one and get back into the me again. I tell you it works when you see through it. And we're not relating because that's all that dualism is. Relativity. Relationship. And we've got all this, we relate to this, that, the other. And the worst one is the male-female relationship of course. And I think we've got to be, come one with them, not relate. If there's two sides of the one coin, two ends of the one stick, those, then when they come together, other patterns, shapes and forms are created from that.

Joining, merging together, and the separation causes a lot of strife. What are you going to do with your next relationship? Wouldn't it be wise to see if it works and let it happen naturally, Instead of grabbing on something for the sake of it and then fighting with them forever afterwards and get into all sorts of strife. But the natural merging and coming together and life joining. And all these concepts, the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, if they're not relating to this believed in me I Am That, Raman, I Nisargad, I Am That, Raman, I Nisargad, I Am. You can't grasp it, but you can't give it any pattern, shape or form.

You can't find a beginning to it. You can say it starts there, or it starts there, or it ends somewhere else. They try and formulate a beginning. They say it started 10 billion years ago or something like that. It was a big bang. What would the big bang mean? It'd have to be in space too, wouldn't it? Or it couldn't happen. So you see, space is no thing, and can something come from no thing? It can't. It is impossible. But you and I are things. The room we're in is a thing. The carpet on the floor, the cats, the trees, the flowers, all this manifestation are things.

But they're all appearance only, seemingly real. And when we recognise that's what we're relating to, a conceptual image, and when the stupidity of getting entangled in a separate entity that doesn't really exist, in the relaxing of it and letting go, and see how things unfold, and really with amazement that they do unfold, not in the way you might expect it to, they certainly unfold. And to say life can take on a different way. Instead of the unhappiness, the fear and depression, it can be very joyful. You'll be happy, fine, natural. Anyway, all along those lines. And it doesn take much to recognise it And quite a few of you in here have recognized it Or you wouldn be here looking at this stuff You be still stuck in the religious I am the founder of the National Association of Religious Peoples of Australia I am the founder of the National Association of Religious Peoples of Australia.

Put all sorts of other concepts on which we believe. Or, if you're a good boy, you'll get that halo around your head, but it doesn't take long before that gets crushed. And, recognised without any of those concepts, you are that already. And it's not a matter of becoming. Because if becoming implies mind or thought, And when you look into it you'll see there's no such thing as mind, apart from thoughts. Where Shakespeare tells you there's nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And that's what we've done, we've learned thoughts. This is good, that's bad. Something comes up and you like it, how do you know?

Well I've experienced this before and it's good. And we don't want the good things to go, we want to keep them there. It's a really good question. The conflict makes you uneasy. Another word for uneasiness is disease. So there's resistance, conflict and disease going on. What about the other way? Something comes up and you don't like it. Oh, I shouldn't be thinking that thought. I'm a good boy and now I'm thinking these sinful, bad thoughts. I'm going to go to hell and then I don't want that. So what do we do? We resist that one from being there too. Try and force it out. So that's what our life's made up of.

You might notice it, but it is. The constant resistance is going on all the time. And that's what's causing your fear, your angst, your unhappiness, your wars, and everything else that's going on in this world, because of that resistance. When you recognise that you are absolute and there is nothing separate from you and left as it is, there's a natural merging back into that absolute, see what happens then. That sense of wellbeing, the space, I guess we'll come back, you'll recognise it, you I Am This Person, I Am This Separate Entity, and I've got to do this or become that and change it to make myself better.

I am not recognising as Shakespeare told us there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes us so. It's a very active thinking that is the cause of all my problems. And what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Well have a look at that one. What can you say is wrong with right now without a thought? I am not saying anything about it at all. And if you are not saying anything at all, is it good, is it bad, is it fearful or anxious? It's just as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. And it changes by itself. No preference, no partiality, no comparison.

No becoming. Because we think we will become this. Procrastination is the best way to have a meaningful future, a not-more-real-life-time. It's really the future that you need. Emphasis on the past, but becoming implies a future time. And there's no past unless you think about it. You can say I was in the past Or I say try and live yesterday And you realise you can live yesterday And imagine the future but you can live I Aam That Ramana Maharshi I Nchagiri Dzogchen Veda Vedanta presence Mahavakya It's always this ever-fresh presence-awareness. And that's what they're talking about, presence-awareness. Not a past-awareness or a future-awareness. And there's not one of you here right now who is unaware.

Isn't that so? But they've got all sorts of concepts about it, oh, I've got to do this and blah, blah, blah, and put the stories on it. But basically, isn't that what's with you right now If you're not locked into the thoughts, there's awareness of being present, and there's nothing wrong with that, and settle into it. And as I said, there's quite a few of you know it here. Well, that's what it's all about. People hearing it, recognising it, and getting the taste of it, and passing it on to others. This is the way our religion is. It's not a question of what religion is and what it is.

It's a question of what religion is and what it is. I'm not saying that there aren't many religions. There are some, but there are a few that are not so much of a problem. The only problem is that there are a few that are not as good as some of the other religions, because, if you look in the traditions and Scriptures, And putting all sorts of ideas on them and make my religions better than yours and you've got to do this and you've got to do that to become as good as me, not realize that it's all the one, and corrupted them. And so there's all sorts of wars and things like that is why they're religion.

But the base of a lot of them is truth. Get to that base and recognise the truth. And as they say, know the truth, and the truth will set you free. What is there to need to be free of? Free of the belief. Have a look at that word belief. Look up your dictionary definition of belief. It's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. It means we haven't reasoned it out, we've accepted things that have come up, somebody's told us, or read about it, or heard it, haven't looked into it. I Am. The That's what needs to happen. So away you go.

Get into it. Take it over. Talk about it. Thank you. Okay, so that's that. Now the best way to go about it is actually to really collectively share I share whatever is understood, whatever really resonates. Because as Bob says, it is non-conceptual awareness. That's the great perfection. And also as he said, everyone is already directly non-conceptually aware of your own existence, of the fact of being. So this is what it is all about really, Being non-conceptually directly aware of the miraculousness of existence. Why did it get out of sight? Because the mind gets in a way and says, hey, this is nothing, this is not important, this is for granted, that is important, or that, or that, or that.

And is it really? As you see, everything that the mind comes up as important is transient, it's just something that comes and goes, it's not essential. While that incredible radiance of existence is shining right now and is not shining any less in any of you than it is in Bob. So it is really about the simple recognition of that which is normally overlooked and ignored. With that which for the mind is nothing, but it's not nothing, it is a no-thing. But it is nothing that is a prerequisite for anything and everything is like a basic screen for everything, even the things that mind renders important.

So just bringing the attention to that one and just sharing what helps you to remember, what makes it clearer. If you share it with other people, they may resonate and hear it and it will just build up on itself and it will just keep being reinforced. And suddenly or gradually that yapping commentary will take a second place. And that yapping commentary which usually tells you that you're not good enough and life is not good enough and things should be different than they are. All this will be the background chatter that nobody takes seriously anymore. Because that radiance of this moment will take the first place, the attention will prioritize that.

And that's the effortless living, that's the freedom from psychological suffering. Because we don't have any questions, we have a lot of nice welcoming messages and we have wonderful spiel today, Bob and love from people who are with us. Thank you Bob, an ever freshen new expression and a lot of good morning messages from around the world. So anyone would like to start with sharing or question or call? Wonderful. I'll say something. You know, Bob talks about this non-conceptual awareness and he also says prior to thinking. And you know, so I know people have difficulty with that and I just, I always think about it in a slightly different way.

So I'll just bounce that into the room and see how it works. You know, we spend all our lives always talking about things, you know, talking about things, my life, your life, this tree, that car, and our whole lives, all of that stuff, it changes. It's a phenomena, it's things and things change. In fact, no things exist by themselves, they are always moving, moving. So, they're not even things, they're just a process or a moving appearance, a process. We're not that, we're not that, so it's really clear that we're not that changing process, okay. So, so that, and I've said this before, but there's one thing that that never changes for us it been exactly the same only one thing and that our awareness Our awareness never changes It exactly the same awareness now as it was when we first could remember it So what's the difference between these two things?

Well, things you can always point to that are objective, they are describable and familiar to us, yeah? And awareness is indescribable. We can't talk about it in terms of how long it's been there, what size it is, how old it is, what it looks like or anything. It is our awareness and everybody's familiar with this. The problem is that when we point to awareness, we're making it objective. We make it objective and it's not objective, it's subjective, it's who we are if you like. And by saying that, I immediately am wrong because I'm making it objective, you see? So this is what Bob means when he says, I think, non-conceptual.

It means that it's prior to thought. That's what we are, we're back prior to thought. And I don't know if that helps. Anyway, there it goes. Beautiful. I just wanted to speak on that same thing. The mind always tries to understand everything and that's just the way I guess your mind I am that. I Am That So the mind can't object it with a concept. And so one thing that can be useful is to see that you're that, and then when the mind creeps up and tries to find out what that is, just also see that you're also not that as well. So, you're not that that tries to understand, and you are that.

And, you know, it cancels it out. So, you are that, and then when the mind tries to understand that, You're also not the mind that's trying to understand that. So you aren't this mind that is trying to understand that. Yes, Bob? That's right, I say in the scriptures we try to grasp it with a concept and we fail because it's non-conceptual awareness. There's no word you can put in it, like even space like awareness. Well space is no thing They say awareness is like space Well space is like awareness Or that as Marty was talking about everything is that and that is no thing That's right, and then it's as simple as that.

I'm just speaking from how my mind's operated, but it gets to that, and then it tries to understand that again. And I've seen from investigating that I'm not that mind that's trying to understand anything. And so that no longer, that trying to understand I am that no longer, is no longer there. So you're just left with that. And you're no longer left with that and trying to understand that. Beautiful. That's beautiful. Following on from that, I think Bob, you always say, you know, you're just pointing where we should look and we have to go and look there ourselves. And I have, it's funny, I have probably two friends in my life who are semi-interested in this, that often ask me questions.

And one of them is quite sincere and we just, when he asks me questions, I just ask what I think is the best question and then we both look and look for ourselves and it's quite a beautiful space that opens up. And the other friend is not that perhaps serious and is more interested in just arguing philosophical points. And really that probably reflects the two sides of myself. But what I found this week, I was talking to the friend who kind of just wanted to argue. And I found myself joining in this argument about nonduality, which is just a ridiculous irony that you could argue such a thing.

And after we'd finished talking, maybe like later in the day, I found myself thinking back on the arguments and getting lost in them again. And that kind of tension building up. And then, you know, eventually the tension builds up to the point where I'm like, okay, well, who cares about this? Who's the one that's caring? And all of a sudden the energy falls out of this argument and you just see the thought for being a thought and nothing else. And it's still there but the difference is the energy is not completely trapped in that thought. And you just see it as a small part of the whole and the ease kind of floods into the body and it's like, It's laughable that you could care about such a thing when it's just a thought.

And when I was sitting and listening to Bob describe thought and conflict, and you just see that how all thought is inherently conflict in a sense, because if it's thinking about the past, it's like either, I wish now were like that, or I wish that were different to what it is. Even like just planning for the future is a very subtle conflict of these are the things that need to be different from now to then to be okay. But when you just see it as thought that's happening, the energy is so different and it's just a relaxed, that's what's going on. And yeah, it's beautiful, so thank you.

Beautiful. I still don't have any contributions, but that was brilliant highlights, both of them. I mean, what's more essential than realizing that what you believe you are is a bundle of thought, and you are not the thought. You are not the urge to seek or understand. You are not the urge to be right. None of it they all passing phenomena and you were just fully as fully here the moment before you wanted to work something out and the moment before you wanted to be right on something So it couldn be I am a seeker I am the only one who is not a seeker. And after that urge goes away, you are.

The is-ness is prior to anything that appears and disappears on it. And that's the only thing that is actually known directly. The passing phenomena is just what it is, the thought. It's never enough of highlighting that because that's the source of suffering like Bob was saying. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Who are you if you don't think about it? Without the concept, without mental image. Are you a person? Are you a human? Are you a body? Are you anything at all without the thought? It is just that field of open, spacious, cognizing emptiness or consciousness. And then the concept comes up, yeah but I'm looking from this position.

Well, without that concept, it's just this arising as it is. Yeah, and to add on to that, if you investigate what you are not, then that's all that's needed. You only need to know what you're not. And by default what you are is... Unknowable. But if you try and understand what you are, you're going to keep what you're not alive. Beautiful. I do also like to highlight that very, very often quoted concept, you are that. Or in direct translation it would be said that you are. Not you are that, this and the other, not this and not that and the other, but that you are.

So that final understanding is that you are. Who doesn't know that you are? Everybody knows that they are. That you are, that you know for certain. Now the question is, ah yes, but what am I? How am I going to define myself? Well, how the ocean defines itself. It can't do that. It will have to get out of itself and then it is not the ocean anymore and it is defining the object. Definition can only be applied to the object and you are not the object, you are pure subjectivity. So that you are, you know for certain always and forever, that you are. What you are is unknowable, just like that Guru Gita, the eye can't see itself.

The I can't see itself. It can look in the mirror, it can see reflection, but that's not it. That's the reflection. So that's how the life knows itself through the reflection. Directly. That it exists. That existence is known directly. But it's not objectified. It can't be objectified. If you want to objectify yourself and say I am nothing or I am everything, that's contradictory. I Am God, I Am Absolute, I Am Life. That's a pointer, but that's not the truth. The truth is not the word, the truth is not the mental construct or object. But that you are, you are absolutely certain, you can't stop it.

What you are. Forget it. The fire can't burn itself. The tongue can't taste itself. And the good old nonduality offensive question, who cares? Who cares what I am? Is there anyone who cares what I am? Is there anyone who craves to put limitations? Because any definition and every definition is limitation. If I put any concept on myself, then obviously the opposite is untrue. If I am the space, well then no space is untrue. If I say I am a woman, then of course the man is untrue. No, that is unknowable. Whatever arises within my gaze is a reflection of what I am. So the whole universe that arises within my gaze, within my knowing, the knowing, I Am is not a reflection of what I am, it is more than my reflection and less at the same time.

It is unknowable and nobody cares who it is, what it is. And that's the freedom, freedom from needing to know, to define, to know what I am, who I am, where I am, what I am. Who cares? If there's really no one there with that sort of sense of need or sense of incompleteness that needs to add that definition to feel better, well, look who is it, what is it? See if you can find anyone there. Because if you don't, if you can't, then maybe it's just another urge. Like the urge, I want a chocolate. It's just an urge arising. It says, I want something, but is there an I that wants or is just an urge?

Like when the cat is going to the kitty litter, there is an urge arising for it to go and empty the bladder. The human would say, I go to the toilet, And then it assumes that there is an I that needs to empty the bladder. Well, of course, that means I is the body. But without subscribing to all that mental chatter, it's just the space-like awareness with arising and passing urges. And those are secondary to that mystery of existence that is primary, that is necessary, and that is known directly, the non-conceptual awareness. And that is worthy of celebrating, even if the content of it is sad or stressful or cold or whatever, uncomfortable.

Peter? Oh yeah, Michael. Yeah, I just wanted to briefly talk about the presence of things. I am a very good friend of the I am a person who has been in the world for 20 years now. Amazing thing. But then after that I found myself wanting to go back to that moment of sadness. That crisp, beautiful moment of sadness that you feel. It so moves you, you know? I wanted to go back there. I wanted to be back there. And for a moment, for a flash there, I was thinking, well, there is something wrong with me I am not feeling it enough. It's amazing. That's how everything is, isn't it?

Every idea, every emotion, everything spontaneously arises and then it's gone. It's all empty anyway. Look, it's empty. Where's the dog? Where is that beautiful dog now? It gone Everything gone Everything going on there Everything going I Am the One I Am the One Thank you for sharing that because it just dropped everything is emptiness and I know in myself the the habit or the identity of attaching to beauty like even the beauty of loss or the feeling and I and I just yeah when you shared what you shared I just yeah everything just dropped back to emptiness again so thank you but I'm aware of that wave of attachment that habit There is still subtle preference, there is still subtle attachment, you know, an attraction or wanting this feeling rather than that feeling.

And that's also just rising. But it's just beautiful when you said empty, because it is empty, but it's full. It's both. Yeah, that's beautiful. And it's also magnificent to actually allow that attachment to beauty to never go away, and never even wanting that attachment to beauty to be extinguished. Say it again, to not want. The ultimate freedom is if you don't want that attachment to go. All sorts of different concepts say, oh, you should not experience this, you should not be attached to love or beauty or pleasure. There is no you that is attached. There is an attachment arising, an attachment moving. Yes. And I totally resonate with this because I'm an absolute junkie on beauty.

I'm like, God! And who isn't? Really? Who does not effortlessly, naturally love beauty? But the problem arises when you identify with that arising because the arising can come, right? Yes. Exactly, if you think there is an I that is identified, an I that is attached, the attachment comes up. I can tell you our cats are supremely attached to the kangaroo meat. I wouldn't ever imagine. Bob picked it up for them and I say I did give them a sample some whatever six years ago and they didn't really like it. But they've shown up in a different form, raw food. Totally attached. But they have no problem with that.

They don't form the identity that this is my preference. Preferences arise. Like Bob often quoting Xin Xin Ming, you know, hold no preferences. Doesn't mean don't let preferences to arise. Let them arise and pass away. Don't hold. Yes, and it's okay because I think that there's some misunderstanding in this teaching which allows loss, which allows grief, which allows suffering. It's all part of true nature. Totally. And it has its rising and it has its falling. Yes. And it's just not to attach a story or a narrative to it. Mm-hmm. But it's not all bliss. You know, what did Buddha say? There is suffering. That was the first noble truth.

And I think that there's a reason why he named there is suffering as the first noble truth. Because there is. And then, yeah, but it's all rising now, now, now. And the fourth noble truth says that there is a way out of suffering. And that way out of suffering is through the recognition that there is no one that suffers. It's just the suffering moving up and down. There is no one who says this is mine. There is also attachment to pleasure and there is avoidance of pain. There is no one who says this is mine. So the body will always run away from pain and follow the pleasure.

Anybody, even the body of a sunflower, a plant will follow the warmth of the sun. Even the body of fish will follow the food or whatever. Everybody but I am not this body This is what arises in the consciousness And I am the whole consciousness in which that pain pleasure that whole dynamic arises That the freedom from suffering It doesn't mean that the suffering is suddenly gone. The suffering is still reflected in countless others. But again, only because they believe that this is mine. There is no I that claims it. It's just what it is. It's rainy day and it's sunny day. It's winter and it's summer.

There's war and there's no war. That's right. Yeah. And they all take its turns. Like Bob often says, you know, if there was no pleasure, there would be no pain. But there would be nothing at all. If there was no war, there would be no peace. Nothing at all. They can only be known through their opposites. The whole beautiful dance of Maya, the whole beautiful manifested world is only known because it has the opposites, because it is polarized, it is dualistic. There would be no day if there is no night. There would be no liberation if there was no bondage. Male, female, good, bad, pleasant, painful, all of it, they are necessary for anything to be There is no painting.

There has to be the polarity. It's just the freedom from the polarities when the idea that I am one or the other is gone. I am not the white, I am not the black. That's gone. There is a presence, but not particularised or objectified to some point. And then appreciation for that dynamic pleasure, pain, winter, summer, day, night. It's natural. And then the beauty in that is also natural. And the beauty of sadness, like Peter was saying, if there was no love, if you didn't love beautiful Raini, you couldn't care less. Yes, there would be nothing. I remember taking pictures of him playing with the dog on the beach in Bermagui, probably good, I don't know, 11 years ago or so.

I've got those pictures, I don't know if I've sent them to you. All the sadness, all the... it's just an opposite of joy and just another way of love to show up. Like Nisargadatta says, everything is love. Fear is love for security. Seeking is love for the truth, Even though it feels like suffering, incompleteness, but it's just the way love is translated through that mechanism as anger, hatred, violence. It's always a form of love, but as Nisargadatta also says, if the love is for me and mine which is limited, then of course I want to take it from you. That's violence. But if the I is the whole universe, well, everything is already mine.

Why would I need to take it? Whether it sits in a bank in Switzerland, who cares? It's mine, it's arising within the consciousness. I don't need to take anything from anyone. But if I am limited, well, okay. What is the future? I'm going to get old, I'm going to run out of money. I'll have to quickly find out the solution and snatch something, steal or rob. There is a comment here from Vivek. Suffering or pleasure are illusion. If it happens, then it is to the identity. But existence is still there, devoid of them. Yeah, that's a nice concept, Vivek. I don know if my world will agree with you I mean you know you step on the toe of my cat and he will not tell you that it is an illusion.

Or, you know, if you get the headache, you know, throwing concepts that, oh, this is all bullshit, it's not happening, you know, your dog has died, oh fuck it, who cares? I am a mother in a deadbed. No, no, it's all illusion. It's a little bit kind of far out, I'd say. I know what you say, and yes, technically, all the manifested world is a dream. You know, if your dog died in your dreams, it didn't happen. And right now we are here, and everything that we do not think about it does not exist here. However, the compassion showing up as another form of love and embracing somebody's suffering rather than calling it illusion is a privilege, it's a beautiful privilege.

It's appreciation for life as it shows up, even though, yes, it is a dream. Loving the beauty of the dream, like Salila was saying, you know, attachment to the beauty of the dream, appreciation of the dream. I often feel and hear myself say it this way, that if there is any meaning or reason for the whole dream to arise in consciousness, and of course that's a bullshit concept because giving meaning and reason is really just engaging the mind, but I think it's quite a sweet way of engaging the mind. If there is a meaning or reason, it is for that life to experience its reflection for love and appreciation of it.

The omnipresence, omnipotence of life creating, expressing in the ten thousand things, to actually glimpse the reflection and appreciate it. So there is an appreciation, there is a space for appreciation, for the beauty of pain and sadness, for the recognition of love in violence, for all of it. That for experiencing that life as a limited body-mind, that is included as well. And great words Katz says primaly. Vivek's not wrong again. It is like a dream. It is Maya. To experience and love and appreciate the beauty of Maya, the beautiful dance of that gorgeous Maya with that multicolored dress swirling around and showing thousands of aspects. What is your response to the war?

Opening to fully see love in atrocities that are taking place on the planet right now. It's just, I know it's true and it's... War is not going to feel pleasant, so if you're looking for the form of love and a pleasant feeling about it, It's just never going to be that. The acceptance, that's all there is to it. It is just what's happening. And even the pain that you feel about it, that's the love. But it's never gonna feel pleasant. It's just what is. It's just how it is. Just about the word conversation. The word conversation is about, involves that, the root of it I suppose would be converse.

I Am the One, I Am the One. Everything is inherently... Everything we see here, everything we hold onto, everything we hold as being really real, is in effect not. I'm losing my plot here. It's passing. It's gone. It comes back to the definitions. Definition of reality is that which never changes. Definition of phenomena is that which changes constantly. So everything in the dream, the body, the war, the feelings are phenomena. They appear real and they are here to be lived fully and experienced fully The Singularity. Bob has those beautiful words. He digged them out from different scriptures. Beautiful words. If you actually walk out with one of those words, go about and remember pure singularity.

So it is the I Am. It's not some space like awareness. It is intimate. It is beating your heart. That's why sometimes people say my consciousness or my awareness even though it's not my or yours, it's just the field of knowing. And within that field is this body and all the other bodies arising. This perception seeing from this eyes and all the other collectively co-arising. Always coming back to that mystery, to that miracle without which no joy, no love, no beauty, no sadness would, could ever be experienced. And just like they are experiencing the dream. And the funny phenomenon about the dream is that some part of the brain which has this, what is it called, the impulse control network, inhibits some of the emotional self-control.

And then you can have in your dreams, you can have fear that is far, far greater than the fear that you may be experiencing in life or joy or ecstasy. And it feels so real, especially if you're trying to remember the dreams. But yeah, it disappears with the dream. It disappears with the dream character that has experienced that. The flying or the ecstatic sexual union, whatever it is, it disappears. The body hasn't moved. It didn't fly. So this experience, you know the dog, when he was a puppy, she was a puppy 20 years ago, that's gone. Everything that is happening is happening right now for that instant and is gone.

Like Bob often says, the body is different, the body is already changed, millions of cells, or thousands of cells have already died and been replaced since that body moved into this room. It's different. The thought that was here an hour ago is gone. Unless you really remember and you can recall it it not going to be the same thought It going to be recreated in a new moment It is gone What an incredible thing it is Absolutely. That is the nature of reality now. Yup. No. Please, please. Please, go for it. Yours may be better. Well, I mean, it's been a year now coming, you know, most weeks and I mean, I'm still in the very, very basic things, right?

Like, it doesn't seem like I moved much, but I have. For example, a couple of months ago I went to a retreat. So I was like wondering even what is this I am sense, like Nisargadatta says, you know, sit with this I am sense, you know. And we were in a retreat with Michael, and finally I think it just really created a good container for me to actually get a, I got a sense of what you guys talk about, I think, you know. I realized it's very simple. I don't know why I didn't get that sense before. For me, it's like who I always was.

Since I was a child, I was that. I think when I was a child, I would think about it as my soul, something like that. I'm a sit in that basic thing, right? So, and I try to sit with it, which is a mystery. Like, I really don't know. I can't say it's got age or it's got, you know, gender or anything, I can, you know, and, but it still doesn't, I don't feel, to be very true to my experience, It doesn't get out of the boundary of my body yet. I mean, when I see it, the boundary of body dissolve, I agree. But, yeah, so from where I am now, as you know now, to get to that realization of I am that space that everything is happening, What do you recommend me doing?

Doing again. I have to do something. Are you body in the space or space in the body? In my experience, to be true to my experience, I still feel like a body in the space. And when you stop thinking? When I stop thinking there is this mystery in me that is alive, you know, but still is felt within the boundary of my body. How do you know that? If you're not thinking, where is the body? See if you actually even have the boundary apart from the thought of the boundary. I agree, yes. But it definitely doesn't feel like... the boundary actually dissolved, I agree. But I wouldn't feel like I am you, like I am Josh.

No, you don't. Why would you? What do you feel like if the boundary dissolved? When the boundary is dissolved, aliveness is there. That's about it. There you go. Does aliveness have limits? Does it end in this room? Well, I don't know. I can't really... That's the answer. I don't know. Right. Yes. You haven't stopped being. No But you not being this or that or anything else You not rising with the concept Okay. But I don't feel like I'm that space that everything is happening in there. Fantastic! How could you? When there's no I. That's true. That's another thing. I am identifying with that thing that I call me.

And that presence is still a person. That's the problem, isn't it? Yes. Describe that person you identify as. What the qualities that person have. What shape, form, qualities. Describe it. What do you think is that I or me that you identify with? What is it? Is it physical? Is it energetic? Is it located somewhere? Or is it just a sound, a vibration? There's a... Hallelujah! Can I have a just one more? Yes. When I was talking about Rani dying, I looked over at you briefly and you had moments of compassion and beauty that arose in you. And then it was gone. So that was in everything.

A good example, I think, just to... ...to do that. Be with what? Well, don't you see how that just simply arose in you and then left you? Yes. Well, that's the way it is with everything. All ideas arise until we start to do what you're doing right now. It's thinking about it and compounding on one singular idea. But that's not a problem. Don't take that as a problem because that's also happening. Like, that's okay. The thinking, the identification. The identification is also happening, okay. It's not like there's a person who can choose to not identify or identify. Identification can happen, but then, yeah, like Pete says, that also arises and then passes and then what's left, prior.

It's just the belief that calls for investigation. The belief. Like Pete was saying, that was beautiful. The moment of compassion arises and then it moves away. The moment of the idea, I am this body, arises and it moves away. The moment of, oh, but I am identified with that energetic feeling, and then it moves away. And as you say, before those things arise, you know, when you were a baby, that was that basic sense of presence. Then you learn words and you learn that that basic sense of presence is I. And then you started building boundary, I am the small body and then I'm bigger body and my daddy is bigger than yours and I am from this country and that nationality and all that.

The concept starts piling up on that basic awareness, on that basic knowing of existence or aliveness. But those concepts are arising. As you see, if there is no concept of the body, the boundaries dissolve. But you don't feel like a room because there is no I that should feel like a room or should feel like space or should feel like Josh. The idea that I should feel like I am Bob is another arising thought. The idea that I should be experiencing great enlightenment in this particular way is another arising thought. Every arising thought is arising within that presence that you already are effortlessly, forever, since you were born or even before.

It just about recognizing the ideas The idea but I am still not getting it How do I know Well because the thought tells me that And I believe that thought And straight away there is a me believing in the thought And I don't question that because I can't see that this is just a thought. That's why we're hanging out here and showing those thoughts. Because any but is just another thought appearing in what you are. An idea that Bob is experiencing himself as if he is a room or anyone in it is an idea. He doesn't feel like that? No, he doesn't feel like anything because there is no him.

There is just what is, constantly changing. Do you think the cat feels like he is anyone in the room? Kat is in a natural state, it never had the idea of I am the body, it never learned language, and it is permanently in the natural state. And it doesn't project that I feel like I am this tree. That's imagination. It's the life reflected in everything that it is appearing to be cognized, but it doesn't say, oh this is me, this is my identity, I am big now, or I am small. There is no I to identify as anything. It's just what arises. When you say you don't feel like the body, what do you feel like?

I feel like something is alive in me, a mystery that I don't know what it is. I'd love to know. Who'd love to know? I want to know. Who cares? I know but I still think I'm a person. This is just a thought. I want to know is just a thought. It's a mystery that I have to figure out in my mind. That's the thought. Yes, but I still am that person who wants to know. No, that's just an arising urge. Like that person who wants to empty the bladder. Arising urge. You recognize them and you give priority to life underlying this urge, the presence without which, see if there was no existence, no presence, if you weren't born, that urge to figure it out wouldn't be there, couldn't be there.

The idea of being identified as a person couldn't be there. So that idea is secondary. Primary is the mystery and miracle of existence. You don't give it any attention. You give the attention to what appears in it. I want to know. You don't feel like the body. What were you feeling? You say you don't feel like, when I say you know, the feeling there. You say you can't say what the feeling is. What is it then? There's feeling there. There's a feeling. Well, it's just pure feeling. Yes. Do you have to put these labels on? No, I don't even know what to put. Well, if you don't, why don't you stay with it?

Stay with that. Stay with the feeling. Just stay with that. Yes. See what comes up. Okay. There's no thoughts, is there even any such thing as space? There's no thoughts about what even space might be, there's just no thought. Yeah, exactly. And no one who cares what is space, what is I, what to identify as. The urge to figure out what I am is just the same urge as going to empty the bladder. Don't have to act on it. Acknowledge that if you weren't born... Just then Bob said, sit with it. Yeah, whatever. What else can you do? What else can you do? It is what arises.

You can't fix it, you can't change it, you can't do anything about it. Be space for it. What space does about it? Nothing. You know what I feel like? Pizza. Alright. Thank you so much. Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Kat. Thank you everyone.