You can't get it, you are it. Sailor Bob and ND team investigation. 16 Jun 2024

Welcome Tony, Sulma, Tess, Jacinta, Lachie, Chris, Paul, Anita, Josh, Jane, Adrian, D, Mitra, and Bob. Can I just... Oh, well. Hello, darling. Morning, everyone. Morning. Morning. You know, it's all there. It's the same old, the same old. And why not? Because if it's not true, it's one without a second, that's all there is anyway. How can you get anything else? Can I teach you anything? Can't handle it. All I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where I'm pointing to to see for yourself. Because when you look into it, there's nobody other than yourself that can see it all that happens.

Because what we point to is nonduality. Or what they call the Hindus, which is that veda, nondual. One without a second, not two. Only that. There's only that in this room. That is all there is. And you know that for me. That's the chair, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the bird. Everything is that which discriminate with the words. We didn't have the words. It's all the one essence. And they say, it's... Pattening, shaping, airing, expressing. And they say, the basic spirit of the earth is not the same. That's the spirit of the earth is not the same. That's the spirit of the earth is not the same.

That's the spirit of the earth is not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're not the same. And you're the same. And you're the same. And you're the same. And you're the same. And you're the same. And you're the same. And you're the same. It's never changed its true nature. And they say the basic space of phenomena, the base of it all is space. And is there anyone that's sitting outside of space now? Anyone who's not in the space?

It's not only anyone because people say they can't hear very well. No. Space is all there is. I don't mean that. Can't postulate or think of anything outside of space. What would it be? So all this manifestation is the adornment of that space. All appearance. And they call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So whether you like it or not, you are and everything else is appearance. How they seem to be so. Like you look in a mirror, what do you see in the mirror? You see a reflection or an image. You can't try and grab that reflection out of the mirror.

If you can. Or the image. You can't. But you can't say it's not there because it appears to be. When you look into it and investigate, there's nothing there. And that's the same with us when you investigate this idea you are this separate entity. This person. This individual. They tell you the false cannot stand up to investigation. And it's true. And they say, you know the truth. And the truth is that you're free. What are you free from? Free from the belief that you are this separate entity. This person. Where does that word person come from? And pronounce that one and the persona, the mask.

And you believe in the person. You've got this concept you're in. The mask. And you think. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. And you're the one. and ask why in science, why in life. And assume the absolute and one essence of that and such of things, what can you add to absolute?

Can't add anything to it, what can you be absolute? What can you take away from absolute? You can't take anything away from it. It's God. Now, if you recognise that you are the absolute, who can be superior to you? I'm better than someone else. And what could you want from anybody else? Okay, Bob, can you give us just a second? We change the mic, okay? People say the mic is not good. Just one second. We change the microphone. People say the microphone is not good. So, we're going to get the phone. Give us the extension. It goes straight into that. That goes to the bell.

Oh, there it is. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. It's probably there. It's going to go through. Yeah, I'll take care of that one. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Break for a silence. Now, go on. It should be better, no? You can do that. It's your hand, that's my hand, you can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that.

I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. Sorry for that. Break for a silence. Now, go on. It should be better, no? Right? Yep. Where did this idea of separation begin? Well, did you have all this? Come with the learning words. How many words have we born now? You don't have any words of choice. You didn't pick up any words. You were about two, two or a half. Another thing that's done with it. Pains of all, smile, and smile. Your parents thought from your age, you could have a little join, a little join, a little join, a little join, a little join, a little join, a little join, a little join.

And then you put it, I am a little, a little join. And then you put it, I am a little, I am a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, a little, All things were made by him, by the word. And isn't that so? And we got word of everything in this house was broken. And that word for. And there was nothing made without the word. So we've taken on that belief. And that's another thing we need to look at. A definition of belief.

When you look into a belief, the definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Well, wouldn't you question beliefs and see if they're right or not? When you do, you'll see that the false cannot stand up to an investigation. And there's so many things out there that you believe to be so, when you're looked into them, to see not how happy to be. Take the ocean, for instance. Go down to the ocean. If I said, do you get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea? What did you say?

You'd say, don't be stupid. Because you know, though it appears to be blue, water is not blue. And you've got the blue sky. There's no clouds in the sky. It's a blue canopy over it. The sky is space. Space is in this room. What colour is this room? Space. No colour at all. A rainbow. There can be colours in the sky. Just the sun shining through the mist, the cloud, forms colours in the sky. Just the same in this room. When the sun shines through the window here, there'll be patterns of colour appear on the floor. But they're not there. So things are not how they seem to be.

How they appear to be. The same with us. We appear to be this person. And the person is not reality. It comes from the Latin persona, the mask. A conceptual image. A mask of concepts. And what are concepts? Words. And what are words? Are the words the thing? Take the word water. Try and drink the word. Try and swim in it. See if you can drown in the word. Take the word fire. Try and cook with it. Eat yourself. Or burn yourself with it. So look at this word, I or me. Are you this person, this body, mind? Am I the body? We say, well, you say my body.

You say my house, my car, my coat. You know you're not the house, the car or the body, the house, car or whatever it is, coat. Maybe you're not the mind either. My mind. What's the person made up of you? This body made up of? Have a look. Investigate. You'll see it's made up of elements. Earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. Try and separate yourself from those elements. Take the body temperature out of you. Take the water out of you. Body 60% out of you. Take the fire, the body temperature. Take the life, the energy out of it. So you reckon all these things fall apart and all those elements can be broken down into subatomic particles, into pure energy.

And this body is nothing but a vibration of energy. Same with the mind. Show me this thing you call mind. You say my mind. Well, show me your mind. I can't show you anything called mind because there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. And if mind is thought, which particular thought would I be? We realise the primary thought is that I am thought. Now if you're that thought, and believe you're that thought, I am this person, I am this body, you'd be frightened to give it up, wouldn't you? Yet you'd gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. And let's say naturally you don't know.

Don't believe that you are saying my body, my mind. You know you're not the mind, the thought. Because you just give up the thoughts. And thoughts are constantly changing. They're transient. Where does this body come from if you're taking the body? Go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating life essence is pattern shaped and formed your father in that pattern. Forms a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with the naked eye, but that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in the mother. That animating life essence in your mother formed another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form.

That ovum attached itself to the wall of the uterus. And the sperm swam to the ovum. Showing there was life in those two little microscopic particles. When those two merged and came together, double and double, wait for a period of time, the little embryo, the little fetus was born. And over a period of so called time again, you became you, the person. And that person didn't have any words when you were born. And you didn't pick up words until the capacity of reasoning developed in you. At about two, two and a half, somewhere around that age. So you'll see, things are not how they appear to be.

And there is nothing you can postulate or think of or imagine that could be out of space. What would it be in? And can you grasp space? Can you find a beginning to space? Can you postulate or think of a beginning? They talk about the Big Bang millions of years ago. But what would the Big Bang begin if there was such a thing? Would it have to be in space also? There's nothing you can postulate or think of that could be outside of space. Space is no thing. It's got no pattern, shape or form at all. And all this manifestation is made up of things.

Insects, birds, bees, animals, all sorts of trees, flowers and everything are all things, the content of space. And there's nothing you can postulate or think of that could be outside of space. And space itself is no thing. It has no beginning, no end, no boundaries, no shape, no form, no patterns. They all appear as the content of space. Just like you dream a dream. All sorts of things appear in your dream. When do you wake up? Where did they go? They disappear. And you realise that your body had never moved off the bed and no words had come out of your mouth in that dream.

You don't realise that we wake up to this waking dream. And this dream, this waking dream, the sleep dream, the things disappear. And this waking dream continues from where it left off yesterday or last night. You wake up this morning and the rooms, see the beds you're in and still there, all these things are still there. And they continue on from there. And the Sarcadatta tells us, as he calls it, you are dreaming a dream you call the world. And stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other. Love all of it or none of it.

And the rest will be done for you. And hasn't that been so? What have you done about growing yourself? Which of you, as Christ told you, by taking thought can add one's cube into his stature? You can't add yourself and make yourself an inch taller by thinking about it. And he tells you, take no thought for your life. What you shall eat, what you shall drink or what you wear. Your father knoweth you have needed these things. He calls it the father. The big daddy. There's no big daddy out there. The father is that life essence, that functioning intelligence entity. The pattern shapes and forms, the peer experiences as everything.

So it's the very essence of every pattern, shape and form, including you, me, in this manifestation. And that's what they tell you in this. The great mantra is, I am that. When you have a look at that, you see that's the chair, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the carpet. Everything is that. That's you, that's me. Which we put the word on and discriminate it with the word. And I told you what the word was before. It was a discriminating thought. And have a look at that. What's your next thought going to be? And you all say, I don't know what my next thought is.

And it's so. The thought will come up though. The thought arises. It comes up. And it's claimed, I think. It's claimed it with the thought, I think. And that thought, I think, is what we call the thinker. The thinker is the subject. I am this thinker, this has become the subject. And the thought, I'm thinking, has become the object. Subject, object is duality. But can there be a thinker without thinking? It can't be a thinker without thinking. It can't be a seer without seeing. It can't be the hearer without hearing. So the subject, I think, I see, I hear, I taste, I smell, I touch, I think, is a conceptual image we've taken on board.

And the actual functioning is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, the ing is the actual. When we put the I on, we separate it into me and the others, into duality. So it still hasn't moved away from absolute. And I am that. So that's what we point out here, that it's all the one essence. And a lot of you here already understand that. You've recognised it. It's brought you to look along those lines when we're stuck in a lot of the religious patterns, shapes and forms, which are based on it, but it's got conditioned and put wrong takes on it, instead of seeing it in its absoluteness.

It's only me that can be fearful. It's only me that can be unhappy. Only me can be anxious or depressed, guilty or jealous, envy. Me is the cause, the belief in this conceptual image, me, is the cause of all your psychological suffering. And the effects are the anger, the fear, the depression, the guilt. What happens if you investigate the cause, me, and recognise it's only a concept? It's only a word. There's no such thing as me without the word, without the concept. And ask yourself the simple question, can there be an effect without a cause? Me is the cause of all the psychological suffering and the effect of that cause is the anger, the fear, the depression, the guilt.

All the suffering is the effects of the cause, me. So that's all karma is cause and effect. When you see the cause as affection, how can there be an effect without a cause? There can't be. There can't be. So you can be free of all the psychological suffering when they're questioning it and looking into it. The belief goes into the words, the concepts. And the Buddha called it a cognising emptiness. And we think we cognise the emptiness, we're seeing the emptiness. But it is the emptiness itself that's doing the cognising. And he made the statement that emptiness is form. You and I and everything in this manifestation are forms.

And the form, he says, can be nothing other than the emptiness. It's that emptiness that has the capacity of cognising or knowing. And that cognising or knowing, thoughts and feelings appear, and the words and concepts go into them, which we're continually dividing things, taking the belief. Some words can be very useful. They're understood and recognised. But the majority, when we put the belief that me and that trap onto them, there's an entity here that can think, can feel, say, touch and do and all these things, is the problem. But the seeing, hearing, the tasting, touching, talking, the life or the livingness is spontaneous. Did you think to take that next breath?

Did you think to beat your heart right now? What's your next thought going to be? You don't know. Thinking happens. Breathing happens. Hunger happens. All these things come up. We put the label on the word on them and believe the word and the label. Instead of seeing the natural life, which Christ told you, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about that sense of presence. It expresses through the mind as the thought I am. We keep telling ourselves, I am this, I am that. I am this person. Because our parents put the name on it.

If you investigate and see that that I am is the sense of presence and knowing that you are. Anyone who is not present aware right now, you realize, of course I am presence aware. It's that Tata Nanda, existence, consciousness, bliss. Anyone who is not existing, then you know I am existing right now. Anyone who is unconscious or unaware, you are not unconscious or unaware. Anyone who is not happy to be, no, I am happy to be. And that is so right now. You don't have to try to become that or get to it. Just recognize or realize, I am already that existence. I am already that awareness or consciousness.

Already so. And so there is no search. The search becomes a problem. Because the search is a belief that I needs to become something. And becoming is a movement of time. And when you look at time, you'll see there is no such thing as time. Is there a past if you don't think about it? Well, I think, and you realize there is no past unless you think about it. The past is already gone. And the only thing about the past is what you can recall right now. And you can't recall. You can't recall everything that's happened in the past. Only certain things can be recalled.

And when the memory goes and is not recalled, it's gone. And the future hasn't arrived. The future is anticipation and imagination. And you can only anticipate and imagine what you are going to do next. So, when you recognize that, you'll see there is no past and no future. So, there's no becoming. Becoming implies there's somebody that can become something. So, time, space is the one essence, the one life that you are. And you are that. Recognize that. And as I say, there's people here that have seen through it and know it. They can point it out and say it in different ways. Where somebody that might be struggling with it might hear it and resonate with what comes up.

And that's what happens to these people of understand it. They've resonated with it. It's always been there. And then hearing something and recognizing, recognizing and resonating it. And it's become the reality. The absolute. Which is always, no becoming, it was always and was, will always be so. But it's understood, seen as that. So, away you go. And I'm long enough. Doing the same old shit. Always new. Ever new. Ever new. Fresh and new. Correct. There you are. That's a good statement. It's always ever fresh and new. Time's a mental concept. Cuts are coming. Thank you. To the rescue. Yes. And we don't have anyone from online asking questions at the moment.

They did help us a lot with the sound. And thank you. So, I can't hear you. Okay. You can. So, we will invite you guys to now ask questions, participate, tell us what you heard. What pointer resonated the most. What causes some, whatever reaction, whatever from what you heard caused reaction, positive, negative, anything. That is the response. Anita, go on. First cat. First cat. First cat. What always hits me with Bob's spiel is that, you know, there's only now. There's only now. There's not becoming. There's not past. There's no future. There's only now. And the now is so, is so immediate. There's no time in the now either.

Oh. Yeah. And that always, you know, that's, recalling that always is just so magnificent for me. Yeah. And I think it's a powerful teaching, just that. Can't say you are not. Yeah. You can say it, but what enables you to say it? Being right now. Yeah, right. Right now. I don't know. Okay. Um, just the word concept today, like I've heard it a million times, but everything is imagined and it's just a concept that it's not real. And, um, I've never really thought about it before until today, that concept. Yeah. That really just, I mean, I know lots of things now, but just, you know, sometimes you just wake up to anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bob, could you say something, um, again about emptiness is form and form is emptiness? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mind. Well, the Buddha called it a cognizing emptiness. Cognizing emptiness. Meaning that there's no, we, we think we cognize the emptiness, but it's not as that emptiness itself is a cognizing or re-cognizing in the mind. And he made the statement then that this emptiness is form, cognizing in the space, it's all empty. It's all, meaning that all the forms, you, me and everything else that appears as forms are empty. Emptiness is form and he says the form can be nothing other than the emptiness.

That we are appearing to be solid. And all this manifestation is appearing to be solid and substantial, it's all empty, cognizing empty, an adornment of space, it's all the content of space, there's nothing you can postulate or think of. It would be outside of space, what would it be in? It would have to be in space. And space is no thing, and you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can't be in the place, you can be in the place, you can be in the place, you can be in the place, you can be in the place, outside of space, what would it be in?

It would have to be in space. And space is no thing. But we've got all these pattern shapes and forms adornments and think they're things. Just like reflections in the mirror. There appears to be a reflection in the mirror. Or an image in the mirror. Go up and try and grab it out of the mirror. You can't say it's not there. It's appearing to be there, but you know there's nothing there that you can grab it when you understand it regularly. Or the dream at night. All made of nothing. The whole universe in the dream made of nothing. And seems so realistic. And even in this world Einstein put it in a simple equation, E equals mc squared.

Every matter is empty. Matter is energy. Shaping and forming. Yeah. Beautiful. Oh, I don't know. It's continuous eruptions. Yeah, I don't know where they're coming from. Like I've heard Bob say before, we're form and formless. And it took me ages to get it. But I come in this form, say this body, as a form. But at the same time I'm formless. I'm nothing. So that's, you know, we are form and less formless. Yeah, beautiful. There you go, Ross. Shakespeare turned that around looking from the opposite direction. So it wasn't the cognising of emptiness. From the point of view of a individual telling a story. The way one of his characters was just a tale told by an idiot.

Signifying nothing. Full of sound and fury. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing. There it is again. Thank you. So, questions coming up. So, this, you say that everything arises in this space. So, and this space, if I, it has got a cognition ability, has got, it's aware basically. Is that what you're saying? The whole space, the space itself. Of course, it's aware through the, through the body it grew for itself. Through you. Right. Are you unaware right now? No. So, you must be aware. Yes. So, what's awareness? You can't really put any concept in it. No. But you can't negate it. You can't say, I am not.

I agree. I can say, but I also cannot say that awareness operates outside this body and mind. Why would you need to? What's the body, what's the body and the mind in? In the space? Right. If it's in the body, mind, the body, mind's in space. It must be the space itself. That's correct. But if I say that, it's like believe, believing what you say, that I totally believe you saying the truth, but it's not my realization. So, that's when it comes, it comes to, there is a, there should be a realization. Right? Realization is different with things make sense, things, that, what you're saying totally makes sense, but there is no realization in me.

Well, how could you say it made sense if you didn't recognize or realize it? Because I still cannot say that the awareness that is outside this body and mind is, has got cognition ability. I haven't seen it. I haven't experienced that. What is there that is not outside that body and mind? What do you know that you're not seeing through the body and mind? What do I know that... Isn't that the pattern that you're recognizing things? So, that you're just saying through your body and the mind, the life is in the body? Yes. And what's the body and mind in? In the space. Where are you going to go from there?

But... But, yes. There is always a but. I realize that. But, I can... I can... Okay. Where... Where are you going? Yeah. This body and mind is in the space. And I can see that... There is no limit into this... I can say that... When I see anything... I'm not bound to this body. I can say that. When I'm hearing... I can hear from far. So, that suggests that there is no boundary. And when I close my eyes, I can't really see any boundary in my body. But, I cannot say... There's that word, but again. I know. But, but... I can't realize that... Did you ever smoke?

Smoke a lot, yeah. Well, what do you do with the buts? Oh, I throw them away. Well, throw the buts away. Right. As soon as you say buts, you start with another story. Yeah. Exactly. I see what Jacinta recognized just now. You know, the concept. If you just contemplate a little bit on what is the concept? What is conceptualization? Because I'm totally with you when you're talking about the concept. You know, the concept. If you just contemplate a little bit on what is the concept? What is conceptualization? Because I'm totally with you when you say, yes, but I can't say that some imaginary floating awareness there has the intelligence or capacity to cognize in it.

I can't say it. Well, I can't say it either. Nobody can say it in their same mind. That's an idiotic concept. But, what it is, is a concept. It's an imaginary mental construct that there should be a possibility for me to say that some space, whatever, on Mars is intelligent. Why would that be necessary for anything? That's supremely stupid. To even conceptualize an idea like that. See, it is a direct experience. It isn't a theoretical knowledge about some theoretical situations and states. Directly, right now, there is a cognition. Now, that cognition is undeniable. Can you deny that you are aware of presence or present or existent?

No. Now, you can claim that, okay, I end here and something else ends there. And I don't know, there might be, no, there is a rock. This rock is not intelligent. It's not cognizing. But this is all conceptualization. You are moving away from the direct experience into the conceptualization and making stories. Through engaging with the mind and making stories, there is no realization. Realization is only in direct experience. If in direct experience you do realize that you are present and aware, you actually realize all that is ever to be realized. You may not realize that, you know, some guy in Nigeria or in South Africa has coffee.

Yeah, I don't realize that either. But what does it matter? Direct experience is what we're talking about. Okay. You're present and aware. I'm not sure what that name is. No, no, I think my question is actually, I think, I know, kind of got my question. There is a clear seeing, right? But there is a difference between clear seeing and realization. Do you agree? There is a difference between clear seeing and conceptualization. That's right. And you have clear seeing right now, but you're conceptualizing that you don't because you're imagining that clear seeing is something else than what you have right now. That's the problem. Conceptualization. Realization that the clear seeing is going on is immediate as soon as you stop thinking.

Conceptualization that, no, no, no, this is not it. There must be something else because my imagination says that it would be something else. So I believe my imagination and not my experience. Well, I'm referring, yeah, you wanted to say. Nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. I, yeah, but Kate. But. No, how much, how. I threw that but in the bin, but. How much, how much more you need to realize that you're existing? No, well, you remember you told me this story and you know, that you came to see Bob and there was a moment of clarity. You're waiting for a moment. I am.

There is a lot of people who have just a peeling of an onion moments and they add up till the reference point just drops away and doesn't arise or arise very rarely for very little. There are people who do have a moment when that identity breaks down, but probably more than not will have just a moment of peeling off the lies, dissolving the nonsense. So every moment of recognition of dissolving the nonsense is a moment where the, where the natural state is grounded. And then reference point arises and it falls away, arises and it falls away. And at some point the reference point as space like awareness or lack of reference point is predominant.

Don't wait for the moment. Don't wait for the moment. It never appears twice in the same way. Okay. It was, it does happen. You see something and you say, I see it, saw through that. You've said that many times this morning. But then the but comes in. As soon as the but comes in, instead of period, full stop, when the but comes in you start another story. Back in the mind again. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Nothing. And also, if I could say something. I love how Kat said, you know, she had a moment of clarity and I think, you know, a moment of clarity is, you see the insanity of relating to a story.

You know, because you just are. You already are that. So the minute that story comes up again, you know, it's, you're relating to a dead image. You know, you want a dead image to be realized. You say, you're talking about realization. That's what you seem to have a hook on. Who, who is it that wants to be realized? Is that, that image you have about yourself, that story of you? It can never happen. It can never ever happen because you are already that. Yeah. I, I get that exactly. I get that but I want, I'm waiting for, I'm waiting for that moment of clarity which you said shouldn't you.

Well, when you say it, when you're clear in that moment, but as soon as you say, but I've got to, you block the, you block the clarity off yourself. Does it rest in its uncontrived singularity? Uncontrived anything more than that. And the moment is now. It's now. See, the, recently we had an interview with a beautiful, a Polish girl who does non-duality in my homeland. And she asked Bob what's the most important pointer that he would have to say to people. And he says, you are already that. There is nothing to get. There is nothing to understand. You, it's just a simple recognition of what is already happening.

If you think the perception is going to change or thinking pattern is going to change or anything is going to change. No, is that the recognition of what is already so. And what's been so a year ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, always here underlying. Is the, the concepts that are telling you that you are not getting it or you're not that, or I wait for the moment, or I want to realize, or I am not that, or I understand intellectually. All those concepts, put them at rest and see if right now, at this moment, you don't know directly, fully, with 100% certainty that you exist.

And you do know that. You just don't think that's big enough, or that's important enough, or that's exciting enough. The miracle of existence, you know, is not exciting enough. Oh, come on, I'm existing, so what? Really? I mean, the mind says, that's nothing, that's bullshit, yes, for granted. But if you take that one apart, that mind, that always, no, that's not enough pleasure now. That's, yeah, that's, well, you know, it's not nothing. It's not nothing. Take it to the heart and see what the incredible miracle of existence, the radiance of being. See what it really, really is, and you won't see it as it, because that is who you are.

But just that, even that recognition of that incredible mystery of the capacities that you experience through that existence, the capacity for seeing, how do you even do seeing? You have no idea. But what an incredible capacity, incredible capacity to hear enveloping the whole field. And the mind says, oh, yeah, whatever. Nah, it's not nothing. And you are certain of it 100% right now and now and now, aren't you? What's wrong? I see what you're saying. What? Yeah. There is, I thought there should be a, because I have very dad-pulled mind, dads just come up all the time. And I'm still waiting, I have to say, for that moment of clear seeing all you say without any dad, like it's so clear, like it was for you, that I cannot be dad-full of it.

You are aware of that waiting, aren't you? You are aware that there is a waiting pattern or there is a sensation of rejection for that moment happening. Are you aware of that? That you are rejecting that moment, that this is not good enough, it has to be bigger and better. I'm waiting for something special. This is wrong. God is an idiot. He created that moment imperfect. I know better how this moment should be. No, it's not like that. It's more like... It's kind of. Yeah, yeah. It's not good enough. You are waiting for something else, right? Yeah. Not this. This is no good. Something else.

Something bigger, something more profound. Not this. I'm waiting for something like what happened to you. You don't know what happened to me. This was the most insignificant thing ever. And at the same time, it was transformational, of course. But really what happened, that whole cloud of concepts and persistent identity of being a seeker who needs to get something, has given up, completely naturally surrendered. So nothing happened. It was like a moment of sudden quietness and nothing else. There was no fireworks. There was no earthquakes. I agree. It's very subtle. Yeah. So it is now. It's very subtle. You're missing it now. I mean... Right. It happened to me also, right, in a very subtle way that I even didn't realize in the very beginning, that I was in total peace, liberation, flow, synchronicity.

All of a sudden, I didn't even realize it in the first couple of minutes. And then I noticed something is different, you know. And it stayed like three weeks like that. But I didn't know. I didn't... I understand... Every time these kind of things happen to me, it's been so subtle. So I'm not waiting for a firework. I just don't know how it happened to me, you know, but... Yeah. It was subtle. Instead of relaxing into it, you know, let it... Let it... Settle. Yeah, stabilize. Stabilize. Still saying it's got to be better, it's got to be different. No, I just don't have patience for that process.

Let me be honest. I just hate process. So I want a sudden thing rather than... But it's not up to you. You are not the doer. I know. You see that this is just a desire. It's a desire floating through the space of awareness. Who's desire you're talking about? Whatever it is, it's not me. Because I know I don't bloody exist. I've seen it a hundred times. Whatever energy is in here. What are you looking for? I'm looking for seeing this clearly in one second as it happened to you, like that all concept stopped. Well, if you don't exist, you're not going to see anything clearly.

That's also true. That's the point. And when we compare ourselves to others, we become vain and bitter. You know, you're just reinforcing an illusory self. You know, you want something that somebody else allegedly has, and yet you are already that. So you go from I want that to I am that. Thank you. Yeah, that's right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think, yeah, you're doing your head in. And, but I've, I've, I've been there lots of times. And at times it still feels like that. So it's really investigating that I, that is really trying to get something.

something it's like you're going through that portal or that filter thinking I am this filter trying to get something so you need to step back and see the whole filter itself as being this conceptual imagined entity Mitra trying to graph something but it's if it's imagined can something imagined actually achieve or become something sort of it's like it's like it's something imagined in your dream someone chasing you trying to kill you could they actually kill you no it's imagined so they can't actually become something because it's all it's all a dream a concept so you're the you're that dream trying to attack get something to kill something that you can't kill in some way I don't know waiting for a process I can't take process this is a filter yeah it's you're using the wrong so there is no for a process I'm using the wrong tool to get somewhere the mind can't the mind it's it's an imagined thing can't become something because it doesn't exist in the first place so every time it feels like I'm waiting for something or there is a process I can just go back yes see what see that there is no process investigate that that that's trying to get something something thing that's trying to achieve something and see that okay what's saying it for starters it's it's a witnessing of it and going well I can't yeah who's the witness I'm on the awareness of it it's tricky but going into the mind and trying to get it through the mind is what it's never going to get there it's impossible it's just the seeking that is killing me yes I'm tired I'm really here there is there is a comment couple of comments from our online community Ram says doubt is just another thought another concept and Vivek says too much questions move you away from the self and I want to comment on that see your presumption is and you're finding a proof for that that you're not getting it that there is something else to be gotten and confirmation bias which is the basics basic pattern of psychology proves you that you were right how about you start instead of proving yourself that you're not getting it you prove yourself that you are it and see find the evidence how is that true you seeing right now shit yes things happening oh thinking's happening designing's happening that's a different sort of a approach you take a standpoint of life rather than taking a standpoint of the mind that wants to get something and it can't it never will yes and that is Sally also Gioti says doubts thoughts and desires are just thoughts you are aware of them so they can't be you yeah watch them like waves you know you are the depths you're not the surface Sally I love the description of trying to get a dream character to do something yeah and see and watch that persistent identity that I don't like what Jane was saying you know what's the conceptual image me the seeker and how is it really playing out how it shows up and goes and it's not who you are and Jasmine Tazi says goodbye and Jasmine says you are almost close Mitra I was exactly at your state so totally can't understand the frustration just trust on Bob's word words blindly so that's that yeah Mitra it's just maybe you know thought doesn't disappear it doesn't the mind has thoughts arise in it even with realization you know some people's minds will go quiet for a long period of time but but the mind is always doing what the mind does trying to keep you safe and trying to keep you alive and all that stuff again if you're looking for a mind that's empty of thought there may be you said that for three weeks you were quiet that was remarkable what why are you not holding on to that reality and that memory as opposed to what the mind did you know the thoughts are thinking that you're the thoughts that are arising I don't think I'm the thought my problem is that happened to me I didn't do anything it just happened but I'm just saying I can't ever I knew even after I lost it I knew that I can't go back there but I mean my issue is the sick and exhausted of this seeker I can't drop it because I'm still waiting for that clear seeing moment you know that I can just see who I am obviously because I see yeah I see I see what I'm not well I haven't see what I am here if you see what you're not what's the opposite of not being not you must be your words what it is but I can't say what it is myself can you say you are not not I'm not I'm not the thoughts but you can say you not exist no I am the existence then and what is the existence who cares who cares do you think Bob knows who is it what is so okay so what I'm tired of is this seeking let's put it and this believing that there is a process yes these two are the only only things that troubling me and here is what soul has to say he says it is impossible to think oneself into enlightenment be present with underlying energy of desireness wantingness notice the addiction to it let go of resisting it and identification with it drop through it and beyond it yeah that's that's beautifully said thank you thank you so yeah just notice the addiction notice that persistent thinking and doubting and that mind activity that somehow it wants to assist but it can't think itself beyond the mind mind cannot think itself beyond the mind it has to stop and now Ram says the notion of personal enlightenment is a scam it keeps seekers on endless cycle of suffering and gurus with a job for life yeah you are already that there's nothing to be achieved and you know it hundred percent certainty you know that you exist but what is it that exists that you can never ever find out you cannot know what you are you you can know what you are not exclusively you're not exclusively the body you're not exclusively the mind you're not exclusively the elements the water fire earth you're not exclusively your thinking but you cannot deny that you are and this is all now if you can't deny that you are you are on the same page as Bob Buddha Jesus and and Mohammed or whoever else realize that they are and who doesn't realize that they exist anyone claims they don't exist they don't exist hello we all on the same page is just that for whatever habitual reason mind finds it unimportant and significant and it looks for something bigger and better there is nothing bigger and better than the miracle of existence unnamed and it is not the same We all on the same page is just that for whatever habitual reason mind finds it unimportant, unsignificant and it looks for something bigger and better.

There is nothing bigger and better than the miracle of existence. Unnameable, ungraspable. You can't put your finger on it. You can't encapsulate it in the image or concept. It will forever be a mystery. What you are will forever be a mystery. You will never be able to point to it as an object. I am this object. No, you are the awareness, the cognizing of any object that shows up. I don't know what I am. Bob doesn't know what he is. Buddha or Jesus, they never claimed that they knew what they were. It's unobjectifiable, but it's also undeniable that you are and you know it. It's just that you listen to your mind, which says, yeah, but this is bullshit.

I don't care about that. I care about the special states and thoughtless states. Don't care about your mind. Go to your heart and stay with what you know for certain already. And the mystery will just shine forth. It's incredible. The moment you disregard or doubt the doubter, doubt the doubting mind. It constantly wants to prod. No, no, this moment's not good enough. I'm not getting it. Doubt the doubter. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Seeing that one that's like, I want to get this moment back and I want to get this and I want to get that. That's simple. I think it's just seeing, investigating that seeker has been false.

You're not that. Yeah. It sounds like the mind wants to complicate it a lot more. But it's seeing this thing that's trying to get stuff and I want that back and waiting for this moment. It's not happening to me. Investigate that. It's trying to. That's the false version. That's trying to achieve. And also, you know, I was thinking of Terry that used to come here. Imagine if you lost your memory. You had no memory. Right. So, say you had amnesia. Something happened and you had amnesia. You would still be. You would still exist. Right. And then all of a sudden the memory came back. And the chatter started again.

And the narration about everything that's going on. And the pleasure, pain, happy, sad, me, you. I get it. I don't get it. Blah, blah, blah. The whole time you still existed. So, it's the identification with the separate illusory self. The me. You know. So, if I say to you, who are you? What do you say? I haven't got a clue. Okay. That's good. Beautiful. You're on the right track. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I can't help you too much. I mean, because I feel like I've just had it. And I really can't explain it. But one thing you said, Bob. I don't think it was necessarily a pointer.

But try and hold the word. Because I find it really easy to identify with my thoughts. But when I think of it as words, I can, even the eye can see that words aren't real. Yeah. But thoughts are really, but if I think of thoughts as just words, then I feel like there's a lot easier to say that that's not what I am. Good point. Yeah. And just something Kat said as well that I feel like this is, I've only, it happened around a week ago. But it was the least, you said it was the least significant thing that's happened to me. Because it was just already, it was just nothing changed.

But I guess the paradox is it's extremely profound at the same time. But yeah, that's what I have to say. Identification, isn't it? Well said. Yeah. It's about where you put your identifications. Yeah. Where identification lands, I should say. Yeah. Where the identification is focused. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Well said. Beautiful. We got, Arthur says, oh, we have, Bradley says, peace beyond all understanding. And Arthur, it is, and this is from Swami Rama Tirsa. It is better to have a bullet in your heart than a doubt. Wow. Yeah. That hurts. Bullet in the heart doesn't. Probably kills you quickly. And Hasmukth says, the cause of frustration is we want to realize it, which is the truth.

It is it, which is beyond the mind, with the mind. Like trying to see our own eyes. That's trying to enter noumenon through phenomenal. Well said. Yeah. It's never going to happen. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Nothing. Say it again. I have a mic. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? There you go. Yeah, that's a beautiful shortcut. Beautiful shortcut out of the mind. Although it may, initially it may not last very long. Well, when the discipline sets in, it will arise whenever it's necessary. You're not thinking about it. You haven't disappeared. You haven't stopped breathing.

Heart hasn't stopped beating. Life is going on. But you're not conceptualizing it. You're not unaware. You're aware. And you are aware of everything. You're aware of things in this room. If you're aware of something, it means it's objective. All this thing is appearing in that awareness. It's all objects. Who is the subject? That awareness must be the subject. Are you aware of it right now? There you are. All that awareness. Yeah. Bud? I'd say. No. No. Be quiet. I get it, darling. It really is. It really, really is that simple. That's the joke. That's why they call it a cosmic joke. Everybody knows that 100% of the time.

It's only the thought that objects to it. And what is the thought? Like Chris was saying, it's just a word. I remember Tony used to say, it's just a line of letters. And now for some crazy habitual joke of a reason, we give more credibility to that pattern than to what enables that pattern to even exist. The truth is, it's just a word. And now for some crazy habitual joke of a reason, we give more credibility to that pattern than to what enables that pattern to even exist. The true mystery of existence. If not for that, that thought couldn't even occur. So what's more significant?

And mind still says, no, that's ignore the nothing. Focus on the thought. That's the joke. You know it. You ever did. You always, forever, always did. You always knew that you existed. But what you are, you can never know. Ever. Yeah, what is, where is awareness or consciousness if you're not thinking about it? Hmm. And for that matter, even if you're sitting there and no thoughts are coming, if there's a moment you think existence is even there, it's because it was a brief thought. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. With the thoughts off, there's nothing there. That's exactly right. Because nothing pops up to be said, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So. Even asserting or denying existence is unnecessary. Yeah. So I think it's a big confusion actually personally when people, but this is just the experience here, when people go on about awareness and consciousness because every time I've looked, like you said, neither of those two things have ever been there. No. Because every time the looking happens, it's a happening. Mm-hmm. Every time that happens, there are no thoughts there. Like right now, there are no thoughts. So, never ever once has something called awareness or consciousness showed up. Beautiful. At the looking. No, it can't. It can't because it doesn't exist. So I reckon it's just yet another assumption that there's a concept that pops up everywhere.

Absolutely. And in a non-dual field a lot too. Yeah. I don't think that's necessary. No, it's not. Ultimately, you know, ultimately when the realizations occur, there is no need to label anything at all. This doesn't happen, does it? Yeah, yeah. The labeling happens only if someone requests for help and needs a pointer. And then this whole concept pops up here. Yes. But it's just a concept. That's right. That's right. It's not that awareness, calling it life, calling it intelligence energy, calling it existence. All rubbish. Consciousness, all rubbish, all unnecessary. They're just labels, they're just pointers. The only assumption that really does come up here is kind of one that Bob says, you know, there is no void.

We can probably say that there is some sort of universe here. But even that is already too much saying. But it's not popping up at that moment, isn't it? Because even trying to verify whether there is or isn't, it's already too much thinking. It's unnecessary. It's already a moment of no seeing. Yeah, look at this girl. She's not preoccupied with any of it at all. It's just clear seeing. Yes, yes. She doesn't care whether there's awareness or consciousness. No, she does have a frontal lobe, but she doesn't have default mode network, which translates and conceptualize everything into a thought. And that's why she doesn't suffer psychologically.

And I just think of that Gangaji, when I saw her years ago, she just said, we are not the story that we have about ourselves or anything else. You know, forget about the stories. When they come up, just go, oh, that's the nature of the mind. That's what it does. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad, me, you, you know, desire, fear, all those things. That's the nature of it. It's just doing its thing. But, you know, all of it is just naming. So it's watching without naming, you know, especially not naming me. We don't want to go there, you know. Yes. Just quickly, what seems to be working here or maybe seen is...

You go. What's the nature of it is that it's all just energy and the habit to try and name it something doesn't see the energy itself. So, yes, energy patterns is being seen more and more. It's just energy and it's vibrating in its own way. And it's not me. It's just a vibration of energy. But what the habit of trying to call it something and define it is where it gets lost. But the energy itself is still there. So you're still there as energy, but not as Mitra. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Beautiful. And we have a couple of comments. Ram says, Mitra is a mathematician, but this is not a mathematical proof to be solved.

Take it as a compliment. And... Not a good mathematician. You're not a good mathematician? Not even interested. Yeah. Think of it like a language of spheres. Yeah. A language of making. Sorry. And Bradley says, Pi use life, pure intelligence energy, undeniable sense of existence, living intermittent finite experiences. Yeah. Beautiful. Oh, sorry. Go on. Go on. I was just going to say what you said is interesting. You said problem solving. And that's really interesting, Mitra, because there's no problem to be solved. You know, it's the mind that's trying to solve a problem that isn't actually there. So there's no problem to be solved at all. It's just accept that that is that and you're already that.

And the problem disappears. So there is no problem solving. That's the nature of the mind. Yeah, yeah. That's the nature of the mind is to solve problems. Yeah, that's right. And that's where the suffering lies. Yeah, it's creating problems. It sees problems to be fixed, you know, because life is, you know, its function is to keep you alive. Just some way, you know, this body. But, yeah, that's the thing. It's the, and then identifying that that's, that is you at your essence is where the problem is. That's where it arises from and that's what the thing. So there is no, and the mind doesn't stop problem solving.

No. It's still there. It's just this, you now see that there's much more going on than just problem solving. It's just appearing upon the screen. Yeah, and it's about the identification, you know, as everybody's stated already. You identify with your mind, your problem solving mind, or you see that it is problem solving. Okay, thank you. Yeah. That saved me there. Yeah, but the problem is only for the mind. Exactly. Yeah, I know, and for the survival of the apparent apparition. Sure, but in the, in this instance. In this context, yes. Sorry, just saying that in this context, the problem is only there for the mind.

There's no problem for, for, you know, the, you know, what, what's behind it all is just that. So there's no problem in that. And the mind is going, oh, I can't get this. So there's got to be a problem. But it's only if we think about it. That's the, that's the one that I always find the, the best. What is wrong with right now if we don't think about it. That is the best. You know, and there is no problem. But there's also no mind in not thinking about it. So. No mind, no problem. Yeah. And no buts in that. Well, I think there is a problem at times.

Yeah. You have to get out of the way of that bloody tram. Or you have to. But the body does that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the mind body does that, right? It, it, oh, fucking tram, get me out, excuse me. I have to get me out of there. It's instinctive. It's instinctive. That's right. I think the mind is just an instinctive instrument. Mind of the, an instrument of the instinctive behavior of the body, body mind. And it's the identification that that is you is where the big misidentification is. And you've already had three weeks of no mind. That was profound and that is wonderful. That's awakening.

I didn't see who I am. Nobody does. There is no am. There is no am. There is no am. But the thing you have to do to is, you have to be a pre-pure. It is. It is. It is. It is. And you go, you go, you go, you go, you go, you go, you go, you go, you go, you go, Bhagat Gita says we try to grasp it with the concept and we fail. He says we're bound to fail. There's no conceptual awareness. There's non-conceptual awareness. Are you unaware right now? Got any concepts, thoughts? It's a good hint here from Jasmine. She says try to stop seeing without closing your eyes.

Just try to stop seeing. You can't. Try to stop hearing. You can't. And Hashmut says instead of our full attention to the awareness I am, we go on objectifying it and want to realize it through objectifying consciousness which is not possible. And Linda says there is no one doing anything. The mind only interprets what is happening. Exactly. Adrian. And this is probably a story but here we am butting. I just keep showing up. Because I have to keep showing up and sometimes the pain has to get that great for something to, for it to be exhausted. So, as long as you have to go all the way with that mental anguish trying to find it until it's exhausted and something snaps.

So, I've had a number of dark nights of the soul with this thing and then sometimes it's like trying to get that and then boom, something drops. But not thinking, oh, waiting for something to drop either. But you might have to exhaust yourself out like I did at times. Possibly. Maybe. Honestly, I've been through really heavy dark nights for three years. Really heavy. Like beyond me. I didn't even know why I should be suffering because personally I was in the best place in my life. But anyway, it just happened out of the blue and I went through a heavy suffering. It's now four years past, you know.

I'm at peace now. Everything is peaceful. The only thing that is not is the seeker. I can't drop that. If the seeker drops, I'm at peace. It's just driving me crazy. I wake up with this and I go to bed with this desire. I'm exhausted. I don't know what I'm looking for. But I'm really exhausted. I can't live life like this. I don't know. When you say, talk about process, if I think about myself even five years later in this as I am, I'd rather slash my wrists. I'm exhausted. I don't have any issue really. Everything else is at peace. You can't drop the seeker, you see.

Or maybe there is no second to drop him. There is no one to drop the seeker either. You know, if you think that there is an I and a seeker and I can't live with myself any longer. I can't live with that persistent identity. Well, that's a good place to be. It is a dark night of the soul. And you know we are here. And you are in Melbourne. You could just come a couple of times a week. You know, you could just make the most of it or catch up on Zoom. And just really ride that wave of suffering because it doesn't happen to everyone the same way, but Bob and I and Adrian, as he says, and probably many more people, that amplified suffering made almost impossible to see, to not see, to overlook the mind activity that causes the suffering.

So when the suffering gets really intense, it is almost, you can't miss it. So perhaps it is a good place to be. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't. It absolutely doesn't. Suffering doesn't feel good. But it is a wonderful accelerator for investigation and the motivator. It really does motivate well. And the suffering is a pointer. Yes. The suffering is a deep pointer. It's coming up to be seeing like, what am I trying to say? Like it's coming up to be seen as not me. Or it has a purpose. It's sort of like, it keeps poking you and saying, this is not the way. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. There is this constant longing and love for the truth. Yeah. And constant overlooking. I wake up with it. I go to bed with it. And I can't help it. It's there. And I can't get rid of it. It's just operating 24-7. It's exhausting. So would you say that you have no power over it? No. So you're powerless over it. Go on, go on. Go on Bob. Go on Bob. So you're saying you're powerless over it. Yeah. Yeah. What was she saying? She's trying to know the truth like Jack Nicholson. You can't handle the truth. I can't handle the truth. Yeah.

The thing is you have that profound love and longing for the truth. Why are you longing for it? Why do you want that so bad? What is it in you? No clue. I really tried to drop it. No, you don't have to. No, no, no. Just keep loving it. It's okay. It's just because when you love it, when you have that deep longing for the truth, how could you ever even long for something that you don't innately know in your heart? You know what you're longing for, don't you? You're longing for the truth. So you know that truth that you're longing for. It's just the longing that is a presumption that you don't know it or you don't have it.

But if you ride on that wave how much you love it, would you die for it? Would you completely surrender for it? Would you just completely annihilate yourself, dissolve into that longing to the point? Then only that truth, only the beloved is there and know you just to be loved. That's what Kabir was saying, you know. But I don't know what it is. I don't know what I'm doing. You don't have to know. It's not an object. You can't, it's not, it's not a golden, what was it, a golden bull or something. It's the truth. You're longing for something you already are. You are the truth itself.

You are life itself. So you can't become something that you already are. But not as a concept of course. As an image, you are so, so far away. You are so, the source is clean, pure, unadorned emptiness or energy or the field of infinite potentiality. And you already assumed the position. And you already assumed the position so that energy got almost like still in some point. It's still the same thing because there is only one. But it's so solidified through the energy of belief that you know, that you are that person, that seeker. I am a seeker. I am a seeker. I am a seeker longing for the truth.

This is who I am. This is not who you are. Because it's not always there. So what you're suggesting is, there is really no truth to know. That's what I get from what we discussed before. It's absolute. It's absolute. Nothing beatitude. Nothing taken away from it. So there is no truth to know. You are that. Experience of not knowing. I am that. Experience of not knowing, beautifully put. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. I am. I am. The sense of prison. I am is the truth. I am is the truth. I am is the truth. The fact that you are, the fact of your own existence is the truth, isn't it?

It is, isn't it? Try to deny it. Try to stop being. No, you can't. Right now, you are okay. So you know is the truth. Right. So you know the truth innately. You know that you are innately. For sure. That's the truth. And you know it. Not good enough, huh? No. Not good enough. Existence not good enough. Adrian. I was saying right now, you are actually okay. You are here. Yeah. You are aware. You are hearing this. Yeah. So that is where you are. When you start thinking that you are not okay, that is when you are not okay. It is like sometimes in that three weeks and it happens just occasionally, I just somehow, it is like a portal.

It is like I just get aligned with it. Something like that. There is an alignment. I don't know how to put it in words. It just happened. You know, for a second. It just, it is like being aligned. I don't know how it happens. Who cares? It is. Right. Okay. Can you unknow that? Huh? Can you unknow that? Know what? Unknow what? Direct experience. No. And what is different right now? You know, like what is, for the three weeks then you didn't have a concept that I don't know the truth. The concept was gone. And now the concept I don't know the truth is there.

That is the only difference, isn't it? That is right. Yeah. So you are one thought away from the same natural state. There is only one thing left to do. The magic wand. That is right. I just love theOR. I just want the п you we that. Hive the lara. I just he it's so high. Hive the S. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. A s. Thank you.