This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
I was thinking of really visiting you at some point, many years ago, but Australia from Poland is such a long distance and that I just didn't have a chance. That's my... I made it, it's not that far. She made it, yeah, but I think she was living there before, no? Yeah, no, actually life took me there without any, well, any effort. I mean, it just unfolded this way. I live here for 10 years. I used to just... Only 10? Only 10 years, yeah. I used to just work at sea and live anywhere. I mean, live on the ships. And then... No, I didn't know. I didn't know.
I thought you were living in Australia and you guys met there, but you didn't, yeah? No, actually we met in Australia, yes, but I wasn't living there 10 years ago. Oh, 12 years ago I was in Poland, then I went to America. And, well, I was living everywhere because I was an offshore worker. I was working on the ships. So eventually life brought me to Australia and then I met Bob and that's... Beautiful. So beautiful. I mean, your meeting is amazing. When I was in Bali this year, I was close to Australia. And at some point I have the feeling, oh my God, I'm so close.
I'm gonna go and visit those guys in Melbourne. I really felt like going, but it didn't happen again. So I, then I felt, okay, it doesn't happen in life. So we could at least connect via internet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's better than nothing. And still, we are all here. I know. Yes, we are. Yeah. I'm very happy to, I'm very happy to hear you fully, fully, fully. And to see you and to meet you really. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. I was actually, as I mentioned, I was showing Bob the beautiful recording. The wonderful, wonderful music and the words and all spoken in a language he understands.
And I translated the titles of your satsangs for the last two years. I just looked for something in English. And I looked at the titles and they were so beautiful, beautiful words, beautiful titles. I just translated them to just show him how much we really are on the same page and to which extent we even use the same language. Yes. Yes. Yes. I had the same impression when I met you maybe 10 or 12 years ago via internet. And I was in Denmark back then. I was sharing satsang in Denmark then. And at some point I met your videos and straight away I thought, oh my God, this is it.
This, this is it. And it is like a water in the desert. Just even, you know, turning on your video when you have shared, when you share satsang from your home. It's so beautiful. And also I remember that while hearing one of the satsang this 10 or 12 years ago, I heard you Kate and I just heard your voice because you didn't record people asking questions back then, I think. And I heard your voice and my first impression was she's clear and then she must be Polish. Because of the accent. I felt that you must be Polish. And my feeling was I would really love to meet, meet that woman.
And I was intentionally listening to, to your talks and waiting for you to, to speak something. So it's, it's, it's so beautiful. Yeah. And then when I, then when I heard your, your, the way you guys met and this beautiful love story, it's so touching and sounds beautiful. Hmm. Yeah. It was, I was really, really elated when I got the first message from you because at that point I actually heard about you from some of the people back in Poland who were telling, oh, look, there is a lady in Poland who does the satsang. And I didn't really know where and how, but you actually told me that was something in English.
And I remember showing it to Bob. That was, yeah, that was quite a few years ago. And what a, what a wonderful thing that, you know, that massive population there, twice bigger than Australia there has someone who showed them the light. That's someone who shines that clarity. That's just, that's just, yeah. Hmm. Thank you. Thank you so much. I have a question for both of you, how it all started. Like how did you came across this non-dual pointing and how did you felt it once you've met it? Hmm. Yeah. Bob, you, you first. It's a long story. I know, but it's very interesting one. Yeah.
Okay. I don't know if you've heard of Alcoholics Anonymous. Yes, yes, yes. Well, I was addicted to alcohol, seemingly so. Yes. In the big trouble. And I didn't, but I had no spiritual understanding or beliefs. I was dead against all this religious crap, really. But I went to the fellowship and stopped drinking. And stopping drinking felt I came good again. You got cleaned up and able to get a job and work and got a bit of money together. And of course, 12 steps on the wall to a spiritual program. I didn't believe in any of that. So I left the fellowship, you know, I've stopped now.
I've arrived. But I wasn't. I was a little bit of a spiritual program. So I got into the booze again, the grog, and took another nine months before I got that bad. And I went back to the fellowship and stopped drinking again. This time, somebody handed me a book called The Bride of the Beyond, written by a Catholic priest. It was an alcoholic. And that's the statement that we alcoholics are given a second chance at life. And that hit me like a book. I've been here, I've been drunk and deadbeat. And I know, Hopa, I got sober, got clean, got out of it. And now I'm back here again.
I've been given a second chance. And underneath that question, he had the question, how well do you use that second chance? And that was like another wig back in the stomach. It had to be, how, only one way I can use it. Find out. Find out what it is that's given you that second chance. Wow. That started me on the spiritual shirts. Being a Westerner, I looked into Christianity and all the things. That took me to the Eastern Stone. And it... That was the search for higher power, right? Yeah. Just what is the higher power that... Yeah. Which they call in the worship of God as you understand him.
17 years later, they took me into the East and took me to the Sakagadana. I went to a lot of other teachers and all the... Muktananda first. Muktananda first. Muktananda. And how was the meeting of... How was your first impression when you met this great, great teacher, Nisargadatta Maharaj? You have a privilege to spend a year with him almost, yes? Yeah. Well, that was... How was... That was the... The first one was the Maharishi. The TM meditation. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Muktananda. That took me to the Sakagadana. But I first, you know, I didn't want to go and see him because I was lured of the guru.
He's just supposed to be. But something made me. I went into a bookshop looking for a book in India and... We're walking out, couldn't find anything that suited at the time. It didn't seem to. And the fellow behind the counter, he said, this is a book you should read. It was I Am That. Now, I'd seen that title. People had offered to me before. And people had offered to take me to see him. But I didn't want to have a bar ring. You know, I was lured of the guru. But with this one, yeah. This hint, I thought, well, I picked up the book and had a look at a few pages.
And what I saw resonated immediately. So I went round and saw him straight up. And I went far away. And I heard what he was saying. And that was it. He told me what I'd heard many times before that you already had. And I actually, you know, this time I really heard it. And that was the end. That's beautiful. Yeah, sometimes we can hear the sentence many times, many times, but we don't hear it, no? And suddenly, in the right circumstances, you just hear it. It took me back to Australia. And I started talking about it. First on the AA meetings, no? Yeah. First on the AA meetings.
That's beautiful. Yeah. And people started hearing. Yeah. And then the AA's, you know, I was talking to druggies and helpies all the time. And they have the first name. So that's where the Sailor Bob came. There was Judy Bob. There was Madagatang Bob. There was Big Bob. And I was the same one that called Sailor Bob. And then I introduced them to go to speak. You know, that's how the name came about. And that's how it stuck. Okay, so this is how it was. Oh, my God. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So I've heard that not only you, but some of other non-duality, people who points to non-duality first came across AA.
And I found that AA, this movement is also amazingly supportive. Also for non-dual message, I believe. Yeah. If you know, if you know where to look, you find it there. You find it. I'm not an AA member. I did go to Al-Anon, though, which is a 12-step support group for the families and friends of alcoholics. And they do have part of the literature that if you resonate, you will find when they say that the only problem that we have is selfishness, self-centeredness, and self-obsession. And self will run riot. And you pray to that alleged higher power to remove that bondage of self. Basically, just relieve you from that bondage of self, which, you know, how could it be removed if it wasn't, if it was real?
It isn't. Yeah. So, yeah. It can be found if you know where to look. It can be found everywhere if you know what to look for. Yeah, beautiful. And how do you, how do you found it after, after meeting non-duality? Did you felt like still continuing AA meetings or you just stopped? No, I still continue now and again, you know, but it became, this stuff became more important and more and more people had come to see about this and didn't have the time to go to the fellowship. But I just went the other week. On Sunday? A few days ago, three, three days ago. Sixty-four years of sobriety.
Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. And how that is happening now. So that's, that's what do you think? What it was? It was this message of, of satsang of non-dual pointings, which allows you that freedom from addiction. Yes. Yeah. Yes. That had to happen that way. I see now, I didn't understand any of it, but I didn't set out to be an alcoholic when I was a kid. I didn't say, Daddy, when I grow up, I'm going to be an alcoholic and be drunk and do all the things that didn't happen that way. But it did happen. I know I started drinking and my nature must have been so stubborn or not, that had to take me into the depths before I could recognise and see the light.
I eventually did through, as I pointed out, I got into the pillage and saw it 17 years after I started the search. And I, by the time I started the search, I was in a very bad way. I've been drinking for years. And then 17 years and turned into about 40 or what, it was 40 or 50 years now. I think it was 76. So how many years you guys are sharing? It's like 50? 48 years from 76. Amazing. That's amazing. And how do you find the, do you notice in this year's change of people coming to see you? Or do you notice a change of, I don't know, of the approach of the maturity?
How do you see it? How will people get here from all different ways? You never know who's going to turn up or why or how they get there. Just the same, I suppose, people know where I'd turn up or get there, where I needed to go. And the bridge people, where they recognise and realise a lot, you know, are not attracted. And I've seen so many that have come along and couldn't grasp it and left. A lot have died. And some have come back 30 odd years later. Yeah, realising that it was there already, but they couldn't see it maybe. What about you, Bill? What about you?
How it was for me? For me, it was by actually by accident at first. First, I met the book of Paul Brunton, The Search of Secret India, where it was the pictures of Ramana inside. And I was just playing piano in my piano teacher's house. And I just took this book and I looked at the picture inside. And this picture stopped me so much. And I started crying when I saw this picture because it's really amazing. Till now I feel it's one of the most beautiful pictures ever made. And the impression was inside. What is this? Why am I reacting like that? So I read the book and the end of the book was some of the pointings.
And it brought me into some state. I didn't know what it is because I had no, I didn't, I know nothing about spirituality before. And, but I forgot about it. I forgot about it. And a couple of years later, I got sick seriously. And I had tuberculosis. And one, my impression was with myself back then that my mental suffering was just so exhausting. I couldn't sleep. I was hearing my mind complaining over and over again, emotion, complaining all the time. And, and I couldn't sleep at night. And one night, I woke up as, as usually and where I couldn't sleep. And at some point, just suddenly, I, I had the feeling that if I'm watching the thoughts, that's it.
If something is watching thoughts, if something is seeing that, if something is seeing those emotion, it, it's just can't be me. That I have to be, that has to be something else what I am, because I'm noticing that. And also, I didn't know what it is. I just felt it's not possible that I am the body. It's not possible that I am that what I see. But again, I didn't have any, any spirituality background. So I didn't know what it is. But it was a huge relief, like lots of fear just disappeared. And I didn't know what's happening even no spirituality background whatsoever. And then I went to India six months after with my family, with my two kids.
And I went to Ramana Maharishi Ashram. And because I remember the picture and I felt, okay, I'm gonna go to, to, to see the ashram of this guy. And I felt great, amazing. Everything was good. But at some point in one restaurant, somebody came to me and said, look, but there are people nowadays who points to that what Ramana was pointing. And I was like, it's not possible. It's not possible that these people exist. And immediately I felt, oh my God. So I started running for satsang. And I've met, I've met Muji there in Tiruvannamalai. And I went for satsang. And satsang was in English.
I did not understand English much back then, but when I came to the room, I felt they are talking about it. This is it. And, and that is how it started. Hmm. Beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. So I can say no, but just by accident, by, by accident, you know, the, the, the sickness helped. Because I don't know if I, even if I would heard the message before I was so busy with life. If I would just stopped with, with, with the clarity, I would just run after some other things. Maybe I don't know. No, it's to say by accident, but it wasn't by accident. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Life knew where to take it. Yeah. Yeah. And we're lucky enough to be open to follow it. Hmm. But it is amazing how the suffering often facilitates the search. And you weren't really, because this is what I noticed in our groups. A lot of people come from, you know, like a broken nest, you know, the childhood trauma, the suffering, deeply ingrained suffering, social anxiety, all sorts of, you know, all sorts of really, really crazy dark states that they struggle with. That is exactly what Bob was at when the alcoholism put him down to the bottom, to really rock bottom. And you didn't really go through that.
You don't, you know, your family is, it's fairly healthy and you have, you know, you've been. Yeah, it was quite, I had quite easy background, I might say. So it wasn't through suffering. I just felt from the young age, from, from really being a kid, that the way people understand world or my parents or people all around, it's something weird. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's strange. It's, it's, it's, it's like childish behavior, but I, I didn't know consciously, how could I perceive differently, but I felt something is, is, is, is, is strange. And, and I had the relief every time where, where I was in nature or I had the relief when I was, when I have met Ramana's pointings or still now when I, when I, when I see satsang perspective and the perspective of the mind, it's, it's, it's totally.
Uncomparable, I would say. Absolutely. Yeah. And how was it for you, Kate? Well, life also just starts really when that realization lands, because I think I was one of those suffering. I, I, I was one of those with childhood trauma. I didn't have addictions and I had a really good coping strategy for dealing with the suffering. Uh, just distracting myself with fun and pleasure and adventures. I became an officer on the ships and sailing all over the world. And it's just distracting myself. But at some, you know, moments when there was too much sky over the head and too much ocean around and too much silence, you can't really distract yourself forever.
So it was seeping in that there is more than just that play of avoiding pain. And yes, I think I started really the set. I don't know if I ever started. I remember being a teenager. I was dyslexic. I could read like 10 times slower than everyone else. And I would still read some of the pointing like Anthony de Mello or Osho, something that just come across. I would read even though reading was a struggle. And then the time came, I joined some Zen Sangha. I think three different Sangha's. In Poland? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In Poland. Oh really? Although I used to go to Vietnam.
I've been a couple of times in the monastery there for months. But two Zen Sanghas. One was Quan Uum and another was Kang Zion, which was a big mind Sangha too. All wonderful. All super helpful. But still, I couldn't at that point, I couldn't hear what they are saying. I mean, a lot of things have landed, but the idea of no self was just too much for the mind. So eventually I ended up going to India and that I had my introduction to non-duality. And that introduction actually everything landed straight away. And I came up, ended up with that, living without center for weeks, weeks altogether.
Just being an empty space, receiving sensations, thoughts, and just being a field of happening. But then I would go back to Poland and the old habits of identifying as the body mind, or a poor miserable little me who is not good enough, who is right, or who is whatever. I mean, that would just creep in back into the picture. Until I came to Australia. And my ex-partner with whom we had really traumatic, really painful relationship, without any intention from either side. It was just incompatibility and a little bit too much suffering on both ends. That just sort of the wrong way. I mean, life needed to amplify the suffering to facilitate the clear seeing.
And at some point when I was actually ready to stop pretending that that relationship is going to get us anywhere. And it was just probably on the rock bottom, on my knees, of the pain and humiliation. I was already seeing Bob twice, three times a week for his meetings. Between the contracts, of course, half of the time I was at sea working. But the time when I was ashore, I would come and see Bob. And at that point, that was the first and the only time when I actually saw him individually, one on one. When I came in and, you know, I was self-collected. I was ship's officer.
I wouldn't show feelings. I wouldn't cry in public. I wouldn't behave like a pussy. I was just a strong woman, one could say. And he saw me in tears. He saw me broken. And in that brokenness, I would just cry my eyes out that, look, I understand every concept that you say. I get it. I've seen it many, many times. Yes, there's no self. But that self keeps building itself. It keeps establishing itself. And it hurts. If there is no self, if there is no me, why is the suffering? What is it? What am I? I know I'm not the body. You know, that's too easy.
Of course, the body is constantly changing. Yes. But you know that vulnerable self, that emotional self, that suffering self, that that part that fears rejection and fears humiliation. How is that not me? And then as I was actually describing the conceptual image that I had of myself being that I was even actually guest guest making gestures like see my thinks that I am this self collected. Smart officer who is, you know, who's got some skills and some life skills and whatever. He thinks this is what I am. This is not what I am. He's wrong. I am this, this emotional self, vulnerable self showing nothing here and nothing there.
And as I was describing those two nothingnesses, crying my tears out. It's just, it just stopped. Everything just stopped. And suddenly it was so obvious and so clear that there, you know, equally, I'm not this as I am not that. And perhaps my concept of myself was a little bit more alive, a little bit more sensitive or sentient than his, but was equally just a nonsensical concept. How could I possibly be that concept? And everything stopped, the mind stopped. So there was no need to re-identify. There was no need to establish another image of what I am. And since then I live without an image.
I have absolutely no clue what I am. And I have no interest in finding out. I mean, who cares? It's just life outpouring. And he presents and that funny enough. And the next morning I just woke up, I hardly slept actually at night. It was suddenly that persistent silence, which haven't been there for like 40 years. So I woke up in the morning after very little sleep, but a lot of elation, a lot of like this whole heaviness of being encapsulated in that very tight costume of self humiliating ideas of what I am. And I realized that, oh gosh, what am I going to do?
It's a new day. Oh, what's happening? And the thought, the only thoughts that would show up, I'll call him. I see if he's free and if he wants to hang out. And I came and I say, look, I have no questions. I couldn't conceive of a question. There's nothing to ask. There's no one who has a question. Suddenly everything is absolutely clear. There is nothing to ever to be found. There's nothing to seek. So do you want to hang out? And he says, yeah, I can hang out. Tell me what you want. Give me a spiel. And I even have somewhere recordings from that first day, first couple of meetings that I don't know, I never got back to it.
And that was, goodness, that was, yeah, many years ago. And then after a few weeks on hanging out, I went back to the ships, I went back to work and then I went traveling the world and I visit my mother and went to, you know, just have some more adventures. And when I came back again, I just call him and ask if he wants to hang out. And he happened to be free to hang out. So we hang out more. And as we were hanging out and hanging out weeks and weeks, and then we started having our own little adventures. He would show me a music he likes and we would just form a beautiful friendship.
And he would take me to the places that he liked and we would have lunch together. And it kind of developed to a proximity infatuation out of a really, really close friendship where if you don't have concepts, then the fact that he is twice my age wouldn't really matter. That's beautiful. That's, that's, that's, that's really, really so amazing. Yeah. And the, yeah. From the other side of the world. Yeah. Life has it right. Life with its creative, creative way of expressing and experiencing itself. It's actually, yeah, it works in amazing ways. And the moment, this moment of just, you know, finally having no question and finally having no attitudes towards anything, just, this is just amazing.
And people can ask questions and why this and when that and this and that, and you suddenly have nothing, nothing, because there is no impression. It's just happening. I actually really loved, I was telling Bob a moment ago, I loved how you put it that thoughts have stopped to make impressions on you. What an amazing way to put it, because that's what a great description. Yes. Suddenly the thoughts become just thoughts. They're not truth, not reality. They don't matter. They have, they may have some relative importance to the, to the functioning, but you know, they're not ultimate importance in anything, right? It's just, they just what they are.
Yeah. I had even to that extent, the feeling was that, that when I came back home, I remember just having lots of books in my, in my shelves. And I had to put cover on my shelves, just not to see books, you know, because the books also, it was, it made me impression that there is somewhere to go where I am not yet. But there is something to grasp what I don't have yet. And at some point I just couldn't see any books, nothing, especially about spirituality. I couldn't speak about those matters also. But what's interesting that at some point, the words towards the freedom just appear.
Yeah. And they just appear and you just can't stop it. They just appear. And, and how was, how is it, how is it for you, Bob? And when you, when you share, you just, it's just, it's just happening. I know how it is, but I would like to hear it from you. Whatever comes up. I don't know what I'm going to say to this. We don't want to start talking. It doesn't matter either because it's all, everything is that. It's all even and all equal, even though it appears. And it's diversity. And it couldn't be any other way. It's only that that is on the wrist.
It's come now. Maybe before long it'll stop. And the age goes on. I won't be able to talk. Yeah. I like, I like when you say, you know, when you say that story, when people ask you if Nisargadatta gave you some, whatever, transmission and told you to speak. What, what do you answer that? Oh yeah. Nisargadatta, Nisargadatta told you to speak. I said no. And if he told me I couldn't speak, he couldn't have stopped it. Yeah. It just came out. You have no saying. You have no saying. I heard what he was saying. It resonated. And it took over. Yeah. Exactly. It just takes over.
Yeah. Yeah. Bob sometimes says, oh, you got to continue. Oh, you got to speak. You know, when I stop speaking, I'm sorry. You know, when I stop speaking, you can keep going. You can keep the group going. And I say, well, you know, it's not up to me. Yeah. It's totally whether it happens or it doesn't happen. It's completely not up to me. And it's and it's not right now. So why worry about it? Yeah. But the clarity is so strong and the point, the clarity which you can't, which comes for your words is so strong that it's I will doubt if it will not happen.
You know, it will happen, I guess. I mean, but we don't know, of course, but I really, I really, I really like to hear you. Oh, thank you. And it's it's it's. I would love to hear you a lot. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, gosh, because it's funny how I used to be really future oriented. I used to obsess about future. I used to always leave a couple of steps ahead, plan the distractions, plan the adventures. And then at that point, the future completely dropped away. It completely died out. The interest in future completely died out. Yeah.
And right now, I can't even you know what people sometimes ask me? Oh, what are you going to do when Bob dies? You're going to go and, you know, go back to sea or you're going to go back to Poland or what you're going to do? Are you going to keep going here or whatever? Yeah. I just can't even conceive of projecting those type of scenarios is so unthinkable to even project what is now. And it's just what a waste of time. Yeah, not up to me anyway. And whatever the life do is going to be completely different. I mean, who knows? Life may take away the will of living.
I start learning how to fly without the parachute. Who knows? And who cares? I have absolutely no fear of dying. Who cares? He's the love of my life. That's for sure. I mean, I don't want to even project life without him. So I hope he's going to hang out. He's not dying. We are not dying. No, no. And then where is he going to go anyway? Yeah. And if you Bob could, you know, share, share couple of words of the most important pointings to us. Well, the most important things. You are that. That is all there is. And that is the basic space of phenomena.
There's nothing you can conceptualise or think of that can be outside of space. Space is no beginning. So you can't say that at the beginning. It's got no end. There's nothing can be added to it. Nothing can be added to it. Nothing can take it away. It's got no shape or form. There's no thing. But it is absolute. Everything appears in space. So it can be nothing other than the space. Space is, what they call it, the basic space of the North. It's the base in which all things appear, but we ignore it. We take the concepts that are in space to be real and try and work it out in the mind.
As the mind, they're all concepts. But space itself is absolute. And if you recognise that you are absolute, nothing can be added to you, nothing taken away. Who can be superior to you, nobody. Who can be inferior to you, nobody. And what would you want from anybody else? Nothing. Nothing. Now it's all that. Only then. Space like awareness, they call it. The nature of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's all appearance. All seemness. But no thing has ever happened. And something cannot come from no. Now it's all like a dream. It's all like a dream. It's all like a dream and call the world.
Stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is your love one part of the dream and not the other. He says love all of it or none of it. And the rest will be done for you. And that's so. Leave it as it is and things unfold actually. And he says nothing can problem you except in your own imagination. When you look at that, that's true too. We image in all these concepts and ideas about us. Imagine it. Just like you look in the mirror, what do you see? A reflection in the mirror or an image. You can't say that image is not there.
But go up and try and grab the image out of the mirror. You can't say it is. It's the same as manifestation. It's all appearing to be so. The appearance is not how it really is. It's the non-conceptual ever fresh presence of us. Just this, nothing else. And you and I and everything else that have already that. And that's the great mantra. That is all the wish. And we know that. I am that because that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. That's the stars. Everything's already that. Which we've discriminated by the words. And it tells you in the Bible. In the beginning was the word.
The word was with God. It's all that God is. It's a word. Another word. The word was God. All things are made by him. By the word. And there's nothing made that was made without the word. That's the trouble. We've learnt words. And take the word to be real. Instead of saying it's all the one life, the one essence, the one intelligence, the one being, or whatever word you put on it. It just is. Beautiful. Beautiful. What's your favorite word? What's my favorite words? A word for, you know, for pointing consciousness or awareness, space or God or love or, you know, everyone has words. They all kind of symbol for something.
What's your favorite? You know, it's every time. I can't say I have a favorite. You know, it's, it's every time. It's just spontaneously comes. Sometimes I, I even use the word room for awareness. But this is a room. It's just a room. Everything, everything what's in the room, you know. And yeah, so it's, I don't have my special word for that. It's spontaneously happening when I'm speaking. The way I use the word. Yeah, beautiful. I like you use room. I actually like the word field. Bob uses the field. But stillness, silence, they're all kind of, you know, pointing at the same thing. I like laughing at it really because I had a friend who used to come to Bob's meeting and she says, look, I'm coming here for 25 years.
And I still can't quite understand what's the difference. What's the difference between the space and the silence and the awareness and God. It's just so many. I'm smart. Well, no, you know, if you try to grasp it with the mind. No, absolutely. It's ingraspable and can't be grasped. Yeah. And we have this connotation with words. So it's good to use many of them. So the mind finally understand that it's not one word. It's not awareness. It's not consciousness. Even sometimes I speak to people and it's like, look, forget this word consciousness, because then you want to be conscious of something and then you will develop relationship with something.
So just forget it. It's not conscious. Yes. Yeah. Even put the word on it. The word is not the root. Yeah. It's a symbolic language. We put symbols on everything. The word water is not the word. Not the word. Can't drink the word. Yeah. Can't cook with the word fire. No. So this is another concept. Or world consciousness or awareness of life or essence or intelligence or whatever. They just blah, blah. And what's something, how something which is after can grasp what's before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, thank you so much for your time. This really, I'm really, I really feel happy that I had a chance to talk to you and I will be popping out to your meetings sometimes just hearing and watching on YouTube because I know you share two times a week on YouTube.
Two times or once? Yeah. We do our home gathering. We do once on Sunday and then we have three Zoom meetings three times a week. I mean, and one you share on YouTube with as far as I remember. It's usually once a week. The Zoom meetings we don't share because they don't really seem to get that many interest. I mean, if a couple of people ask me to upload it, I'll upload it. But if they don't, I don't bother. Yeah. Yeah. It's different. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Wonderful to hang out with you. Wonderful to meet you, to know that you're here.
I might, who knows, I might have a chance to come to Australia, but for now I don't know. But it's really lovely to have a chance to talk to you. Yeah. Please come if you can. Please hurry up. He's not getting younger. You're full of it. It's showing Jeremy. It does shine out. Yes. It shines beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. I keep the music. Music. Yes. I mean, I was, you know, I want, I liked things to happen, you know, and I can't stay still for a long time. That's why I have to do something even with this non-dual message. Okay. Let's do this through the music or let's try to, to, to, to show it through the art or something.
This, this pointings, because, because the word is one thing. The music also can translate silence very well. Absolutely. Yeah. And it was gorgeous. It was beautiful. The dance, the music, the silence between the words, the, the background, the nature in it. It was gorgeous. Clearly. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. And maybe guys, I mean, is the chance you both come to Poland? I doubt it. Mm-hmm. If he bikes. He must, he must make it. And traveling is a little bit beyond. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Traveling by plane. It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's maybe it might be exhausting.
Yeah. And he's got a little bit of a help. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Traveling by plane. It's, it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's maybe it might be exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got a little bit of a health challenges. I mean, he doesn't, he will, he is, it's never challenged, but the body, the machine, the, the, the costume. I know, but it's such a, I admire you so much. I mean, I admire it so much because you know, this, the spirit is so strong and you know, uh, it's amazing. You know, it's amazing that you share it's so clearly still, and you have power, power to do it.
It's really beautiful. Thank you for that. Yeah. I say, I've been given a bonus life of 60 odd years. I love the booze. Yeah. Bonus. And also as you know, the longer the attention lands and stays in the heart, the more it shines and the more it's kind of matures. Like Bob said that, you know, that was 48 years ago. He, there was a clarity that there is no self, that there is no ego. Yes. There was a lot of nasty habits still. So half of his first marriage was a rough patch before it smoothed out. And before all those neuro pathways rewired to more kind of like, you know, compassionate, loving responses, those habits, some of the habits die hard.
And I remember some, you know, concepts like a strong concepts. I was holding on to for years after there was obviousness that there isn't any little creature, entity anywhere there having a control and will or anything. But the habits were still showing up. They're dropping off. I can see them as they drop off. But again, I have no saying whatever will stay whatever want. And I'm not believe that his cow got enlightened or, or, you know, reincarnation concepts or other concepts regarding future of time. Some concepts drop away. Some, some may, may not. Who cares? Yeah. And this is fine. Completely fine. No. Yeah. Who cares?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, and it's, and it's also sweet and beautiful to see them dropping away and seeing that, you know, that clarity, the less clouds obscuring it. And it's kind of, it's not maturing because obviously it doesn't, it's not a thing that could change or mature or anything, but the distractions are just getting out of the way. So, and the relief. Yeah. And the relief every time, no, every time. Yeah. We can compare how it was and how, how serious I was about myself. And at some point I started, I stopped being so serious about myself. myself oh my god what a relief for myself oh yeah from the seriousness of life or from trying to find the meaning of everything oh my god that was such a terrible thing just what's the meaning of life exhausting constant patient what happened why it happened why it happened this what does it mean nothing yeah what a relief well but it's a miracle it's a miracle because if one tries to get rid of it it's impossible impossible yeah it's just impossible yeah and then that this just happens and this is a miracle i would say yeah and and actually being that lighthouse in which you know you created that that light with you know sending that wavelength through which the resonation may happen the recognition might happen through just tuning into that same vibe the same tune that you know deep in heart everyone knows already everyone knows they exist and now you find yourself in a position in which you bring that clarity into the world position that you haven't chosen position that suddenly you just look at oh okay that's what life put me now yes my my my impression at first was i i i felt that i i started sharing or sharing started happen but on the mind level i had the thought i was just like oh my god why i mean is that a mistake or why i didn't deserve this i mean i know nothing and i'm not even smart and i'm not even wise and i'm not even you know i don't have a spiritual background nothing i mean god are you are you are you serious just like this and then yeah yeah beautiful pattern expresses through is that's true you don't know anything and you can't do anything but life expresses through you as that yeah and you are the life itself nobody lives a life there is only life yeah yeah and the only freedom there is is freedom from those misconceptions freedom to not know and not need to know and just get out of the way and even to say it loud it's like to say it to say it loud you know for me it was a at first the i had some process with that because there was a thinking i mean how dare you say it yourself that way like the the the words which such a big masters were saying how dare you repeating them how dare you you know and then and i just let go of it i mean this is just life happening yeah i remember actually it was the very next morning after i had that meeting with bob in december and the very next morning i came to him after hardly sleeping with just that sense of just that sense of wow i mean my goodness everything is the same but everything is different and i say bob you know what what a blasphemy to even allow a thought that you know the greatest minds that i always admired that i thought so superior and so supreme like all the buddhas and jesus's and that great enlightened you know yeah what what am i one of this is this is outrageous this is ridiculous but how could you not how could you not be how could we not exactly how could we not how could anybody not yes yes you everything is that everything is that one essence how could you how could you possibly be separated or be something else than that one essence that discovery that discovery that having that a wide open eyes and just amazing and projecting that radiance of that discovery and expressing that elation of of that new discovered lightness that's just no wonder after weeks and weeks and months and months of that bob got exposed to that radiance and youthful joy that the proximity infatuation had to emerge everything everything is the adornment of space you and i are adornment of space it's the space itself it expresses the atmosphere only that the one intelligence energy the one life the dance of maya yeah and what a gorgeous man when you have eyes to see and you see that yeah finally from from from hell to heaven no and no matter what's happening it's just heaven yeah yeah oh gosh the only freedom they could ever be and it doesn't mean that you're not gonna get you know that pains or struggles body is not gonna age or get sick or whatever i mean yeah but now as you said the thoughts don't make impression anymore so you're not enslaved to believing the thoughts so whatever i mean the body may get crucified but what does it how does it touch the essence the life it doesn't the pain is appearing in the in the screen of field or room of consciousness and awareness i feel nourished by our conversation i feel that yeah me too it's just such a joy it's beautiful to see that beautiful beautiful radiant shiny clear reflection yeah yeah happy man amongst the polish girls yeah yeah i'm happy some some polish uh footprints are there i'm happy yeah it's amazing how compatible we found ourselves to be i mean it's such different culture i mean living in australia initially was really confrontational because our culture polish culture is much kind of closer uh war in a way you know we include the guest at home is god at home and we look after our own and australians are a little bit you know kind of the british descendants they're a little bit more kind of uptight and well externally they project themselves as easy going yes mate how are you mate and but that's very very very very basic surface level and i think that's a lot of the the people okay okay okay i didn't know and just show you everything is possible from the other side of the world came together and the age different you'd never think of that i never couldn't believe it could happen and you know that's that for me it's um i mean this that there that nothing is obvious and everything which mind says is just uh the interpretation and it's fake so meeting two of you and uh and being happy together and i mean we can just see you and be happy together it's like mind it's it's like the this conditioned mind is like what what and then it's it's also an opening you know it's opening it's breakthrough it's so beautiful i love it it come and hang out come visit australia hang out okay okay okay okay it's bitter now but it's warm here bob is cold so he's our home is toasty okay guys if i if i if i have a chance i would really i would really love to but anyways we can we can hang out on on internet as well if you if you guys need anything i'm here i really love you and i appreciate for our our talk today i'm very happy yeah let's hang out sometimes just check in and exchange yes exchange some more or warm it's great to catch up yeah it is it's beautiful thank you thank you thank you so much ciao thank you thank you thank you thank you love you too bye bye