This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
! Julia, Navi, Michael, Gila, Jok, Jo, Jo, Jo, Dane, Inch, Enosh, Bob. I am at the door. Good. Nonduality. That's what they call Advaita in a lot of our teachings. Nonduality meaning one without a second, not two. Only that. And they mean exactly that. That is all there is. So if that is all there is, you, I and everything else must be that. Nondual, one intelligent entity, one life, one being. And an investigation is recognized as such. Recognized. The Buddha calls it a cognizing emptiness. And he tells you that emptiness is formed. And the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So talking about all this manifestation, you, including you, me and everything else, just pattern shapes and forms appearing in emptiness.
What is the emptiness? The basic space of phenomena. The basic space. The basic space. The basic space. The basic space of all phenomena is emptiness. Well, look at space. Is it the very first thing you see? But do we notice it? We don't. We notice something in space. Not the very enclosed, close to your eyeballs of space. And this room is full of space. But we focus on the things that appear in the space. Instead of realizing that it is a space like awareness, as they call it. Talking about non-duality. Advaita. One without a second. Is existence, consciousness, bliss. Name and form. Anyone who is not existing right now.
You realize, no, I'm existing. Anyone who is not conscious, everybody knows they're conscious. You're not unaware if you're conscious. And happy to be. You're all happy to be. None of us want to be dead right now. So that's what we, unless we miss the space. And we miss the fact of your own being. That you are already that. That is all there is. Only that. That's the great mantra. I am that. And don't we already know it? Because that's the chair sitting in. That's the room. That's the carpet. That's the tree. That's the flower. Everything we got names, put names on. It's all that as we discriminate with the word.
And the word's not the thing. Take the word water. Try and drink the word. Take the word fire. Try and cook with it. So what's this word, I or me? You realize that I or me is just a concept or a word we've learnt. Now how many words were you born with? You realize you weren't born with any words at all. You didn't learn words until you're a year or two old. The pair was fussing around you. It's just speaking. And the capacity of reasoning developing you in that little baby. You learnt to reason. And you took the word to be real. So when they tell you, they gave you the name, I am Bill or I am Jane.
Or whatever you're made to be. Somebody asks you who you are now, you'll say I am so-so. Whatever your name is. Realizing that's just the label. That's not what you are. You are that life essence. You are that one intelligence entity. That one being. And being is not becoming or not knowing. It's pure being. Call yourself a human being. Believe in God, you'll call God the supreme being. Take away the word human. Take away the word supreme. Try and separate your beingness without the word. And you realize that as you're sitting here right now, you are just being. Not being this, that and the other.
And if you put, take up a concept or a word and go into the word. Into the thinking process. And Shakespeare tells you that there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And we've got this habit of thinking. Trying to work things out in the mind. We call it mind. Body, mind. Person. Are you the body? Are you the mind? Well, when you investigate, because this is the mind thing they do. These things need to be investigated, looked into, and seen for yourself. Nobody can do it for you. And don't think you're going to get it from somebody. Because if it's one essence, there is nothing other than that, innate expression.
That's expressing as you. And everything else, from that point of view, is an expression or a pattern, shape and form. And all these patterns, shapes and forms are not really, not the reality. Just vibrations, movements of energy. Are you the body? Are you the mind? And innately, when you look into that, you see it's not so, because you say, my body. My mind. Who is the me or the my that's saying? My body. And the mind, which is something called mind, is there such a thing as mind? See, the body is nothing but a vibration of energy, made up of elements, air, earth, fire, water, space.
That's what the body's made up of. And you call it my body. Just say, my house, my car. You know you're not the house car or the coat. So maybe you're not the body either. And when you look into it, you might realize and see it's so. You are not the body. All those elements can be broken down into subatomic particles. And those subatomic particles can be broken down to pure energy. So all this body is a vibrating pattern of energy. All the manifestation in this body are vibrating patterns of energy. All adornments on space. Because there's nothing you can think of that could be outside of space.
What would it be in? It would have to be in something. Anything that can be in is space. But space is no thing. It doesn't have a beginning. It doesn't have an ending. It doesn't have any boundaries. Any patterns, shapes and forms. Any division in it whatsoever. It's just as it is. A cognizing emptiness. An emptiness that has that capacity of cognizing or knowing. Or intelligence energy. Whatever label you like to put on. And that it all vibrates through it. And becomes the body, the tree, the flower, everything. And the mind. And all things. Everything. Everything. Is the content of space. Because there's nothing you can postulate outside of space.
So it's that space like awareness. Which they tell you. They use that term. Space like awareness. Awareness like space. And come to realize that. That's what needs to happen. Realize that you are already that. Always have been. And always will be. When we learn the words. We've taken the belief that we are. These words. These concepts. These ideas. Purely and simply because we never questioned it. When your parents tell you little Johnny. Or whatever your name might be. You say I am little Johnny. And somebody asks you who you are. You'll say I am little Johnny. And you go on believing that. And looking into it.
You get into a lot of strife because of that. Because it's only me. Who can be unhappy. It's only me that can be sad. Depressed. Guilty. Jealous. Envy. Me is the cause. Of all the psychological suffering. And. When you. The effects are. The jealousy. The envy. The fear. The anger. But when you look into the me. Who or what is me. Who am I. Am I this body. Am I this mind. You realize I is just the thought. And the thought is a vibration. And that's all the mind is a vibration. And that's all the mind is a vibration. Vibrates into words sounds and images.
And there's no such thing as mind. But. The words are all levels we put into it. The vibration. Vibration is sound. Movement. A vibrating pattern. A vibrating pattern. And. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. a vibrating pattern of energy that appears solid and substantial, the shapes and forms that vibrates it. And time, space are no thing. Time, see time's a mental concept also. If you ask yourself, is there a past if I don't think about it? And try and live in the past. You can't go back and live in the moment ago.
You can't live in the past. You can only recall what we think is the past. And if you're not recalling it, it's not there. In the future, can you anticipate or you do anticipate and imagine the future, but you can't live in the future because that's all it is, anticipation and imagination. So it's all this vibrating present moment. And this present moment is spontaneous. It's got no duration and that's all that time is, is duration. It has a beginning and an end. But the spontaneous now moment, can you say it's beginning? Or can you say it's ending? Try and grasp now. I've got it right now, but it's already gone.
There's another now. So when you see it's all time, space, all apparent. And this argument tells you, you're dreaming a dream you call the world. Stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other. Love all of it or none of it. And this is the wonderful thing about it. The rest will be done for you. And that's the fact. It all happens by itself. What have you done of coming into existence, being born? What have you done about growing yourself? As Christ tells you in the Sermon on the Mount, take no thought for your life.
What you shall eat, what you shall drink, what you shall thaw you. Look at the birds in the field. He says, they don't gather into barns, sow crops or do anything. The lilies in the field, and all his glory is not arrayed like one of these. But you see, all these things are taking place. And through the believes in thought, we think we are doing, but they're all taking place by themselves. Look out there in nature right now. The earth is rolling around the sun. What's doing that? Is there some God up there that's rolling it around? Or is it happening naturally and effortlessly? The sun is radiating and throwing out a heat, which lights up this side of the earth which is facing it.
And the other side is in darkness. The earth doesn't know anything about daylight or dark, neither does the sun. We've put on the concepts of daylight and dark. Not really. We've put on the concepts of thinking. And as Shakespeare tells you, there's nothing either good or bad but thinking, they can say. And look at the way we think. Thoughts come up, just the same as the sun rolls around the earth. We go, this is a good thought, this is a bad thought. It's a pleasant thought, a painful thought. And we divide the thought. Thinking in there two. But it's only the one essence. Vibrating in the opposites.
As Shakespeare told you, there's nothing either good or bad. But thinking like so. And good and bad are two aspects of the one. Vibrating thought process. Just like past, present, future and all the rest of it. All concepts. All mental concepts are images. All apply to that one, what I call for want of a better term. I don't use the term God. Because it gets confused with that term. With all the different traditions that are around. Got different ideas and different concepts. What is God? What God is it tells in the Bible. In the beginning it was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God.
That's all that God is a Word. A label we put on this idea. That's functioning. That's manifesting. All things were made by Him. And that's so. All these things are words you picked up and put in labels. And there was nothing made that was made without the Word. And we've learnt words and taken belief in the Word. Not realising that you are the life. As the Christ tells you, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. No one can come to the Father excepting through I am. And the Father is not Big Daddy up in the sky. It's that life or Father essence if you like to call it that.
The Supreme Being. And the so called Human there. And I was pointing out before. The Human Being take away that word. Human. And take away the word Supreme. You're just left with the word Being. Can anyone negate your being? You can't. Nobody can say you are not. So you are that pure being. And being is knowing. And being is loving to be. And that sets you to enter another term. Being, knowing and loving to be. So you are that already. And that's what we need to recognise. And saying is know the truth. As they say. And the truth will set you free. What are you free from?
You're free from the belief. That you are this separate entity. This individual. Now have a look at that word belief. Your dictionary definition of belief. It's an unquestioned acceptance. In the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact. Without positive knowledge or proof. And when you put your belief to that test. They'll fall apart. And where does that leave you? When it falls apart? Do you disappear? Is it the end of you? Or are you still that presence awareness? That being. Knowing. That you are. That expresses through the word. The thought. I am. But I am is not it. And people tell you to stay with the I amness.
That I am is the sense of presence. Translates into the thought I am. Stay with the sense of presence. Not with the word. Because the. You know. As Moses on the mountain told you. But he would have. Looking after the Jewish people. He made up the tablets. And those tablets. Were. A way. Of. Working at things. In a more. Easy manner. Followed through. Followed them out. But he says I have got to tell the people this. What are they going to say? I want to know. Who sent you? They were believing it was some other. I sent you. And they say. Who. They'll say who sent you?
Who sent you? And it came to him there and then. Tell them I am sent you. That's when he realised. The word. I am that I am already. That is what I am. That thought. I am. That I am. Thought is happening upon you. You are prior to the thought. And they tell you that in the scriptures. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. And Isaiah says. Be still and know that I am is that godliness. If you like to put that term up. All I am. All I am. That I am is just a thought. And you are not a thought.
Thought is happening upon you. You are prior to the thought. Because we had realised that when you were born. And for the first two years of your life. You were living and in existence. But you had no words. It's only what you can point out without the word. And the word comes along. It can help to a certain extent. But it causes a lot of trouble. When we put these labels on the words. It's only me that can be unhappy. It's only this me or I can be depressed. Or this one of us is like a bad word. But it can help to a certain extent.
But it causes a lot of trouble. When we put these labels on the words. It's only me that can be unhappy. It's only this me or I can be depressed or jealous or angry, fearful. Me is the cause of all the psychological suffering. And effects are the jealousy, the envy, the fear, the depression, the anxiety, the stress. They're all the effects of the cause, me. Cause and effect, what's that? They call that karma. But what happens if you realise the cause, me, is a fiction. Just a thought up word, a word we've learnt. And ask yourself a simple question. Can there be an effect if it's not related to the cause?
Or can there? If you're not relating to a cause, how can there be any effect? If the cause is me and you see me is not what you actually are, how are you going to relate it? So from that point of view, what are you going to do? The separation ceases. And what are you left with? You're left with the absolute. Or the great perfection. As they call it in Buddhism. Buddhism, the great perfection. I'll give you in one sentence there, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It's that awareness which is within everyone of you right now, without any concepts or words. And the absolute, they tell you that in the Hindu scriptures.
If you're absolute, can you add anything onto absolute? If you could add anything onto it, it wouldn't be absolute. If you could take anything away from it, it wouldn't be absolute. So if you realise absolute is all there is and only that, you must be that, then who can be superior to you? If it's all absolute. Who can be inferior to you? And what would you want from anybody else? So that I am that then takes on a different meaning, a different understanding. Not that I am this body or I am this person. I am that life itself. I am the truth. I am the way.
I am-ness. The sense of presence. That's all it is. A sense of breathing presence, which translates into the thought. I am. So that's what we point to. And they ask you to look at that and see for yourself. Because I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. And when you realise that if you are absolute, there is no one who can teach you anything. And no one that can tell you anything. Because all those others appear in that life essence that is expressing as you. That life essence. If you are not there, what world is there? There is no world for you if you are not there.
When you are in the world as we are now, it's only what's around you that we see and take to be real. There is lots of other parts of the swirl of cosmos we don't know, see or know anything about it. We can imagine and anticipate a lot. But each and every one of us is doing the seeing of itself. And only one in its range of seeing and knowing. And I say without that, the world for you disappears and you disappear with it. And that goes for any other so-called believed in person. Can't be there isolated on your own. You're only an appearance and only a pattern shape and form that's in it.
And the world plays along in and around that. In all its diversity, in all its variety. So in the recognising that, you are free of the belief of being a separate entity, an individual. And they don't have to suffer as we do. And the Nisargadatta tells you that nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. And when you investigate that, know it's true. Because all we are doing, we are imaging this, that and out. Imagining. It's all conceptual images for each and every one of us. We have these conceptual images. And that's the imagination we believe to be real. There's no difference from when you go to sleep at night and you dream.
In that dream you create a world and everything in it all appears in the dream. And you can be doing all sorts of activity in that dream, be in all sorts of places anywhere. What happens when you wake up? It all disappears. And all the things that you dream, the places you're in, they all disappear with it. Which is what you don't realise. That your body, when you look into it, then you realise your body hadn't moved off the bed when you were dreaming. No words had come out of your mouth. It was all taking place in the imagination. What we don't realise when you wake up, you wake up to this dream.
And this is the waking dream. Because this dream continues every night from where it left off the day before. The night before. And so it's seemingly real. You can see the things the next day. They're seemingly there, solid and real. But it's the waking dream. And the Sargatata tells you, realise you're dreaming a dream you call the world. Just realise it. Recognise it. Stop looking for ways out. Instead of trying to get out of the dream, don't look for ways out. The dream is not your concern. We make a concern by trying to find ways out and thinking about it. It's not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other.
And isn't that so? We want the good stuff. We don't want the bad stuff. We're dividing it up and splitting it up and wanting the good, not the bad. He said love all of it or none of it. The rest will be done for you. And it happens. It all falls into place. We look back at that and realise it's brought you into existence. And the sperm and the ovum, two microscopic particles. And your father and your mother, one of the third things that brought them into existence too. And when those two came together and mingled, it formed the little embryo, the little fetus, which is what you are today.
What were you doing about it then? You weren't doing anything about it, but it was happening. Why do you keep trying to do something about it now? We all get caught up in that. Not until it's recognised and sees what it is, but the settling into it and leaving it to happen comes about. And then that's coming about, it works itself out. But the old habit patterns, we've constantly believing in this me, take a while to settle down. And so it goes, continues on for a while. But eventually in the recognition, you leave everything as it is. Unauttered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is in itself.
No preference, no partiality, no comparison. And realise it's free to change, just like it does in nature. Day and night, silent sound, movement stillness, incoming tide, outcoming tide. Planets forming, exploding and imploding. The whole function, these patterns, these human patterns breathing in and out. It all happens naturally and effortlessly by itself. And so, allow it to be. So I can't tell you anything. And I can't teach you anything. And I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm not speaking to that body-mind that's sitting there. I'm speaking to that I am. To that sense of presence. That knowing that you are. Just to this.
And nothing else. And if you listen with this as this, and see for yourself. And let it do it on you. Well, you'll know what I'm talking about. And there are people in here who have done that and know what we're talking about. And when we take it on now, everybody's asked to have their say, if you want to. Tell us how you see it. If you don't see it and you've got any questions, ask the questions. Because it's only by your own investigation that you can come to it. So away you go. You awake there, Kat? She's got cat paralysis. Oh. I said one cat at a time.
Yeah, I'll just keep hearing that. There you go. There are cats. They own the place. They are just the servants. And she's living a dream. So living in that state of, that natural state, she's living a dream. She doesn't have any sense of low confidence. Oh, I'm not worthy enough to actually jump on someone's lap and find myself comfortable. The natural state. The natural state. State in which the only difference, oh, well, there's more differences, but the basic difference between the animals and humans is that default mode network which narrates everything that happens in the moment. And it's the only difference. It's the only difference.as the only thing.
And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And to the actually. And the. And the. And the. in a symbolic language. She doesn't have that narrative self. So she's just moving, responding to the environment in a natural way. And so do we. But we have the narrative, we have the voice of a commentary on top of it, which tells us that, oh, I shouldn't have done it, or I shouldn't have thought it.
But you haven't done a thing, and you haven't thought a thought. They just arise. Actions arise, just like in the cat. Cat doesn't translate, oh, I will jump, because they don't conceive of I. They don't imagine that there is a tiny little kitten there inside the body that is doing the decisions, that is deciding to jump or choosing to get on my lap. No. So they're free. They're one with life. They respond to life. They interact with life. When it's cold, they shake the foot a little bit. Or when it's raining, they find the shelter. When they're hungry, they eat. And it is always environmentally triggered.
They're one with environment. We have the idea that, oh, that is me. And God, in the Bible, told me to label the animals and change the environment to my liking. Whether he did or he didn't, that's the nature of every living creature, to find comfort, to find safety. So no action is actually my action. It's only the narrative that takes credit for the action, and says, oh, there is an I, and I decided to do that or the other. But when you look and try to find that I, there isn't one. So we are already in the natural state. If we just disregard the narrative which always speaks with the sense of importance and urgency, if we just disregard that, or we just notice that very narrative as another object in consciousness, that's the natural state.
And it happens spontaneously throughout the day when other senses are engaged. Like Bob says, you know, sitting with five senses wide open and unfixated awareness, or sitting with one sense totally occupied, like eating chocolate. There might be no narrative at that point. And that's the natural state. And the narrative is natural in a way as well. It's just considering it the truth, considering water, the word water to be a water and trying to drink it, or considering the idea that I'm not good enough to be the truth and trying to attend to it, is suffering. Word is not the real. The commentary is just blah, blah.
It has nothing to do with reality. She gave me a break. Good. You want a pillow? Take her. So anyone would like to... I love the way Bob says, you know, tell us how does it sit with you? How are you seeing it? What are you seeing out of it? What's obvious? What's clear in that whole really, really basic introduction? Because this is really super, super simple and basic. Everyone's already certain, 100% that they exist. And that's it. That's it. That certainty, that acknowledgement of that incredible radiance of existence, of consciousness, of being here. That's it. It's just that other things seem to stand in a way and obscure it because they seem important.
Oh, I'm not good enough. I'm not healthy enough. I don't have respect or I don't have partner or whatever it is. That thought that stands in a way and argues with life and says that life should be different than it is. That's when given importance, when given credibility, that causes suffering and seeming separation from that flow of life. Which you can never be separate anyway. It's just the illusion. Just dreaming the dream. So anyone would like to start and say how are you sitting with that? How are you going? How? Yeah. It's so good or something. Wonderful. Um, yeah. Oh, words, hey? Um, hmm. Um, I heard the melody to like a bridge over troubled water.
And, I don't know, it brought a tear to my eye. And so thank you, Bob. And thank you, Kat. You know, that message, the message is like a bridge over the troubled water of the identification of a me. And, um, yeah. It's just listening to the message time and time and time again. And old habits have died. And the reality and the truth is just there in such a soft and, I don't know, humble way. Um, and while I was listening to the message today, I recognize that things just fall into place. And I heard really say that later on that really everything just falls into place and seen in its own time and way.
So, yeah, thanks. Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. And they really do. Can you see? Yeah. The place that the mind would dictate. You know. And, but that's the problem is the thinking, the believing the mind's stories. Yeah. You know. That's, that's when we get really upset is when we bought into a story. Mm-hmm. It's all a story, really. I'm a story. Yeah. You know. I, I, I'm okay with this story. It's still a story. Um, I think, uh, what occurred to me is just a conversation I'd had with my son once about, um, he seems to think that because we have this intellect, it makes us superior.
Mm-hmm. Most people, I think, have that belief. Yeah. You know, that, well, humans are special. Like, you know, we're, we're, we're superior because of this thinking capacity. But it's such, it's such a, um, they don't, I think they, they haven't quite understood. Yeah. I would have to Google whether or not animals have depression in the wild. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that, that I know that I've had children and I've never seen, you know, toddlers with depression. Well, babies. They don't. How many of them have you seen? I've only had mine two, but I did talk to psychologists when they were little, you know, wanting to maybe make sure, like, okay, make sure they're happy growing up and, you know, and I, the psychologists that I talked to trying to get one for my kids, they don't even see children.
They won't even, there's nothing to, no, they don't even consider that they might have issues. So I don't know. I'd have, I'd have to look into that. Yeah. But what I, I guess what I'm trying to get is, and I do think that it's because of our believing in our thinking, that there's a me, that's all of our problems are coming about because of that story that's believed in. I don't know if I'm babbling or making any sense now, but that's just been my experience is whenever I, I'm holding onto an upset for longer than a toddler would. That's what's, what I can't help but notice is going on is as a thought that not this should be something else.
I, when I see the bullshit of that or that that's a dream anyway, when then in my experience, it's kind of like waking up from a nightmare. Oh my God, that's not real. Yeah. And it's sad in a way though, because so many, so many folks don't, I mean, I'm sad, that's a narrative. I get that. You know, like, you know, but so many, so many people don't, they don't, they don't see this. That's why I sing a lot about it. It's just poor strangers, unsuspecting, you know, because it was such a unique way of looking at things that you, you see that it's just a story.
And babbling again. Yeah, I have a couple of comments from our online community. So Jane says, thank you so much, Bob. Perfect pointers straight from the heart. Thank you, Kat, for putting it all together and love to all. And Ariel says, it's interesting how the narrative can become so loud and so dominant and the momentum seems to make it stronger. And how coming back to the pure love in Bob's presence is such an amazing reminder. Hmm. Beautifully said. Thank you. And Tibor says, thanks to us. Sometimes old habits die hard, but they die now. Hmm. Yeah, that was beautiful. I also love what he said, you know, how humbling it is to just sit in front of that message and just come back to that.
I don't know. You know, the truth is, this is all mystery. It's not like, you know, one size fits all solution. It's really, I mean, even, you know, the question of animals having or not having depression. It's a question of language again, how you stick the label, how you define it. Doesn't really matter. It's coming back to that humbling realization that it really is a mystery. I don't know. If I think I know something, oh, you don't know it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if I have a certainty that this is like this, you know, that every piece of depression comes from this or that, you know, that kind of feels a little bit on the arrogant spectrum.
It's a little rigid to say I know, isn't it? Yeah. It's a bit, it is a bit arrogant. Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't really. Yeah. But in this, and people want to know though. Yeah. They really do. They think that's the solution. Mm-hmm. Is have to be able to say it's because of this. Mm-hmm. That's why they go to the religions, I think. Yeah. You know. It's, they're thinking that knowing that they're going to know something and then they study the texts and they, they, the religion will have the answer, my religion. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it is really just, uh, leaving the, leaving the message is more of a state of open curiosity and just seeing how is this body going to respond?
Or how is that other body going to respond? What is the next thought going to be? What's the next feeling going to be? What's the, you know, just kind of holding space for that space to unfold it, it's content without any, uh, prerequisites without any expectations, just being a space for that content to arise. And yeah, as you say, you know, it's nothing wrong with appreciation for the content, even if the content is a story. The story can be absolutely beautiful. That is a way life expresses itself through the story as the story, it expresses itself and it has a glimpse of itself. It knows itself.
It experiences itself. And again, this is a little bit of anthropomorphizing because, you know, life doesn't really do nothing has ever happened. But I love the way Bob sometimes, you know, puts it in one liner, one essence, experiencing and expressing, appearing and experiencing, expressing as everything. It almost kind of suggests that this is why the whole Maya came into existence, so that intelligence can experience and express itself. But the why question is a question begging for the story. But it's a really, really good metaphor that puts the mind at rest. And now, being in that state, you actually just let that life express whatever way it expresses.
And you just be the space for it to express. And if there is people who didn't see through it, appearing in that field of life, what... That's part of the expression too. Yeah, it is from life's perspective, there is nothing wrong. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's been a while. I'm coming here and I still, I'm very much looking forward to that moment of clear seeing, which I haven't seen it yet. How do you know? How do you know you haven't seen it? Because if you had seen it, then you would know what it is.
But if you haven't seen it, how do you even know that you haven't seen it? Say that again? Say that again, please? Yeah. You say the clear seeing, you're looking forward to a clear seeing in the future because you can't experience it. You haven't seen it clearly yet. So I say, how do you know? Maybe you are seeing clearly all the time, but you have an assumption that you're not because you have a subtle expectation that clear seeing looks differently than what you're seeing now. Do you think the cat sees clearly or not? I agree with you. So, because I actually saw that, I can see that there is this effortless awareness.
You know, that right now, for example, says, you know, I can feel my legs and, you know, it's just spontaneous and it's just operating. That is me, right? That's what I am. That open, spontaneous awareness that knows all these sensations right now. This is it, right? That's what you're saying. Well, not really. No. So that's why I say I haven't. But it doesn't matter what I'm saying. It is your direct experience of existence. Can you deny your existence? Can you try and not exist for a moment? Can you try and not be conscious just for a moment? No, I can't. No. So that existence is a base of all experiencing.
That existence is undeniable. Now, whether you're tasting a sweetness or you're tasting bitterness or you feel the pain in your leg or the headache or whatever, that's the changing content. That's just the passing phenomena. But the base, the undeniable fact of existence, which for the mind is just nothing. Okay. But for the heart, it's a radiance, miraculous radiance of aliveness that is absolutely beautiful and unpenetrable and unobjectifiable. You can't objectify it. I know what I am. I am this. No. You're the one who says. You're the one who sees. So you can't really know what you are. But that you are, you can't not know.
You can't not know it. You know it already. You're seeing clearly, you're experiencing the existence. You're certain of it. But you have a concept that no, this is not it. There is something else. Well, when I say, is it so let, okay. So when I say right now, I am, there's a knowing of how, about the senses, five senses, there's a knowing about that. Yeah. And there is definitely the exist, existence. I know it that I exist. Mm-hmm. So what I am is that that knowing? Yeah. Yeah. That knowing. Right? Knowing, loving to be. Yeah. That's what they say in the scriptures. Yes. Satsitānanda, being knowing, loving to be.
And that's, that's already a fact. And then they say, Nama, Rupa or name and form, the form that you give yourself and name that you give yourself, the concept that you give yourself, that's Maya, that's illusion, that's not true. The reality is that you existing, you are aware of your own existence and you wouldn't die. You have preference to exist. So that's the reality. That existence is the reality. And you can't deny it. So when I tune into that knowing, or I don't know how to describe it, knowing which is kind of effort, effortless. Yeah. You don't even have to tune to it. It's, it's for granted.
Yeah, it's for granted. Yeah. It's for granted. So because I'm always caught up here, you know, like energetically even, I just, there's a pool. Yeah, almost, you know, there are gaps, but you know, there are gaps. 99% I'm up here. The attention goes like energetically even to thinking. I can feel the energy in my head even. Yeah. But when I'm in my body, when I, there is a gap of this momentum, I am in that kind of effortless feeling of the senses. Mm-hmm. But when you are in, when the attention is caught in the thinking, analyzing, labeling, taking credit on all that mechanical narrative function, you're still aware that the attention is trapped in that mechanical narrative function, aren't you?
When you are daydreaming. Yes. You are still aware that you are daydreaming. That's right. So that is also included. Absolutely. Yeah. Everything's included. I get that. Yeah. So, what I mean is because the momentum of this is much more than the momentum of those gaps that are in my senses. Mm-hmm. In that knowing, in that open sky kind of space. Yeah. That everything is taking place. I can see even thoughts. Mm-hmm. Emotions. Everything is in that space. Yeah. Whatever it is, which I don't know what it is, but whatever it is, it's that aliveness, whatever it is, in that presence. So everything is happening in that one space.
So the momentum of that is a lot less than the momentum of this. Yeah. You can see how you are actually analyzing and comparing, you know, if there is life that experiences and expresses itself through engaging part of the attention in the narrative, and there is another peace of mind that is analyzing and comparing it with some sort of an ideal, you know, I want to be in that state when I'm aware of the senses and there are no thoughts, because I prefer that state over the state when the attention is engaged in the narrative. That subtly reinforces the I. The clear seeing is that the mechanical function of the narrative is the same as mechanical function of stomach digesting or the skin sweating or the lip salivating or the seeing.
Don't bother with it. Don't worry about it. Don't believe that that mechanical narration talking about I should, I shouldn't, I didn't see it yet. I, I, I. And it's part of the play. There is no I there. If you see that any thought spoken in the narrative is completely like a pre-recorded old record, like automatic subtitles on the YouTube. You switch them on and they, you know, the algorithm is listening to the sound and you put subtitles. Or you talk to your virtual assistant somewhere or the other. It's completely mechanical. That's not you speaking. Yeah. It's not you being caught in narrative. Yes. You, who you truly are, is never caught in anything.
It's just the attention. Some of the attention travels to the narrative. And it creates the I in the narrative and that narrative and that I is assumed to be real. Look at the reality of the I. And then, and the narration won't be a problem. So, I can see that it narrative is coming out of total darkness. Like there is, you know, before the thought comes, it's darkness. Mm-hmm. And then thoughts come in, which I can see I didn't generate it. It just came out. Mm-hmm. But the problem with that is, I can't, it just so many and it's so quickly. Mm-hmm. That that gap is so litter that I can't break the momentum and I can't relax.
No, because there is no I to do that. Even if you see. Yeah, there is no I. Thousand thoughts per minute. But the moment. Mm-hmm. And racing one on top of the other like crazy ADHD, crazy manic thoughts racing. But there is awareness of that mind functioning. Yes. So, leave it alone. Leave the mind alone. Let it race. Who cares? Let it do whatever it does. You know, sometimes you need to run and the body is racing. The blood pressure is coming up. So, if the mind is racing, let it race. But you are the space of awareness in which the mind races. Can you see that?
That when you are engaged in daydreaming or you engage in producing dark scenarios, that's an automatic function that just happens. And there is awareness of that function. Yeah. You don't have to be curious of the content of the mind. But be curious of the fact that the mind is engaged right now. Yes. But the problem. Okay. When I am in the thought game realm. Mm-hmm. I'm not even being, I'm so gone by it. I'm so tranced by it, in a trance by it. That I can't feel that on that awareness. It's only after the thought that I remember. There you got it. There you go.
You know. That I just realized that I've been even thinking. In a trance by it that I can't feel that on that awareness It's only after the thought that I remember There you got it You know that I just realized that I've been even thinking so the problem is only in the mind analyzing afterwards in the moment there's absolutely no problem just like the cat running on the tree behind the bird is Completely engaged in the action. It has absolutely no problem So you are completely engaged in the action whatever it is dreaming about Copacabana Beach, whatever And there is no problem But then the mind steps in and look back creates that past and creates the narrative Oh, I shouldn't have done it.
Oh, there was no gap. Oh, I I'm not getting it. This was a darkness I was in the darkness. There was no I In that dreaming about the Copacabana so you say I came later So you say actually you saying that I keep daydreaming I don't know. This is what you said That you are 90% because if I don't pay attention I just keep daydreaming or I keep stuck in my identification Do you think you have control over it? You think you are the doer who have control over what how the brain is functioning? You have that illusion of control that this is up to you whether the dreaming will happen or not No, but I have this Also strong heart desire to get out of it Yeah, and you think you have control over that?
No, no, okay So wonderful you establish that you have no control over the dreaming and you have no control over the heart desire No, yes, I know. Do you have control over anything? Nothing nothing that there you go ask a space there is one thing though. I realized I'm not sure but of it seems that there is a moment of choice though To go with the narrative or not to go to stay Yeah, of course the same choice choice But is there anyone that will make that choice or is it life just following the flow of itself? Is there anyone who can make that choice?
Because in the narrative you can say you have a choice every moment every second every decision Everything is a choice you could conceive of the possibilities and options you could even experience the possibilities and options So is there anyone? To make that choice or is it that certain choice is more kind of emotionally charged and the other one is less emotionally charged? So the energy will just gravitate towards the one that is charged Rather than the other Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's no one to make the choice No choice maker so if the choice is even presenting itself to me. Yeah, right. Mm-hmm perhaps The pushing see see this is really that this is really very very simple and really very very uncompromising There isn't anyone there to do anything at all So what is that?
Once you really completely give up on any Attempt to control because you really fully embrace the fact that there is no freaking thing you can do about it That comes with natural relaxation and natural surrender Oh shit, right? Oh Goodness, he really means it. Yes, he does hundred percent There really is no one to do anything So you may just quit trying I'm gonna second so that moment of choice that comes off To go with the narrative or not Don't believe that you have choice Choices are made There's no choice maker Yeah, choice is a Made Choices are made All right, there is food is digested, but is there anyone who digests it?
Heart, you know the heartbeats are made, but is there anyone who does it? I don't get this like choice are made So why they appear like that then? Yeah, yeah, they appear like I can actually choose the between the two That's the grand illusion That's so that's the thing like like Bob About smoking you said don't pick the first one Yeah, and then throw away the butt But this is a choice right Or not see it that is the grand illusion it gives you the illusion that there is a little me that is a little mitra inside somewhere Who can decide to take an ex cigarette or to take an ex drink or whatever?
That's that's how it feels you know when you watch a good show in the cinema It also feels when someone is running it feels in the stomach It feels like you know, it feels the good show the good theater or you go to a good You know opera show and you cry because the drama just really pulls you in That's what a good grand illusion is and this we are talking about you know, we could call it God This is the best spectacle ever made This is the only game in the town and it's so convincing That you really live your life believing that you are this individual this person who has the control and who makes decisions and who?
Who takes choices that is how convincing it is? But it's nevertheless a grand illusion you'll always feel that you are here and not there And the cat also feels this way you can see Judging the behavior that cat knows where it where it where to go. It doesn't hit the wall It doesn't conceive of separation But it experience on the bodily level it doesn't feel it is the door or the chair or the wall But it doesn't conceive of being separate it doesn't have the idea that I am a cat and you have the idea I am a human and I'm in charge and I have control and I can make choices.
This is a wrong idea I'm so sorry I'm taking so long, but this is still like So this is you say so I like Bob you said don't pick the first one So but that is a choice Who is it? Is it? Did you do you want to stop smoking? Yes Why would you pick one of them? Would you make a choice to pick one of them? Well the choice there the natural movement of life is towards the cigarette No, no See this is again you actually just need a basic simple translation Everything is life there isn't that life wants the cigarette and I want to quit See you creating duality again It is only one life one life expressing itself as the addiction pattern and the same life as the desire to break the addiction pattern Is the same life now Whichever one gets charged Emotionally that one will be followed those who have very very strongly charged addiction pattern And the desire for quit for stopping didn't show up for them They will continue now the desire for stopping may awaken While listening to Bob It may be you know awakened it made Inspire something while listening to Bob he may literally or anyone you may go to a meeting or you may go to Whatever support group one of the other or you may even listen to the radio listen to the bird and suddenly The desire to break a pattern may awaken But this is not you having that desire versus life having no desire it is all one life.
There's no one else The life wants to quit and the life wants to continue and the life plays the same game Every and every actor in the scene is no one else So I shouldn't really beat myself up over Absolutely you get it. I shouldn't beat myself up over smoking over anything But if beating up happens it is also life acting out on the pattern of beating up you think beating yourself up I'm telling you that for weeks Yeah My god I was beating myself up over it Yeah, yeah because you thought that it will make a difference This is also this behavior pattern of punishing is also a way life reconditions itself You do it with animals as well although it's very ineffective to punish the cat or dog rather than reward it for the for the good behavior Super ineffective you punish the dog and it will never come back to you You know, but what you said about the beating up is also life It is it's very confusing There is well just take that one thing.
There's nothing else. There's only one just one life How confusing is that there is nothing simpler than one? Everything is life. Hitler is life mother Teresa is life Suicidal ideation is life Elated ideation is life. It's just one non duality very very simple. How how confusing can that be? It's it's Because I don't know if I should really stop now or not you think you have a choice Again, you think you have a choice What is the eye that needs to know if you don't mind my asking? That I see that doesn't exist, but there is But but What is the eye that take a look can you find it?
No, I can't find it. I look for it hundred times But the tendencies are confusing the tendencies. Yes the tendencies. How about the tendency to whatever eat chocolate the tendency to Speak to strangers or to not speak to strangers or the tendency to hold the mug in particular way or to keep your hand on your I heap this those are all tendencies. What's wrong with them? And who is confused? And who is confused? Confusion is happening. I can see that I Can't say who is confused. Yeah, yeah the wave of confusion going through the field like the wave of sadness the wave of beauty Or the wave of appreciation.
No one does What's that confusion? Sorry about Bom Bom Bom If you say Who is confused? Well, can you find anyone who is confused? Who is confused? No one So it's just the idea of confusion happening The idea of confusion happening So the heart knows what needs to be done in every moment How do I access it though? It's now you to access it You are access it I'm going out of the circle You have the awareness You just said you are aware of the confusion Identify with the awareness not the confusion Yeah You are the awareness you are not the confusion Okay Beautiful Are you unaware right now?
No Well there you are You're not unaware so you must be aware And you are aware of confusion You're aware of fear You're aware of fear You're aware of everything Everything is objective If you're aware of something It's not you I got a couple of good answers here from From our online community Maybe there will be something that speaks to you Just open up for the resonance Because the clarity is a common gold Hey you says I know is the nod of ignorance That was According That was probably relevant to the previous one And Beale says Thank you Bob and Kat for your love For the clarity And expressing the simplicity of the conscious being We are Beautiful And Ariel says Let the momentum take over It won't last Nothing lasts Yes And Taz says Mitra And he translates Mitra And blows you a kiss Beautiful And Tibor says Stop pulling on loose threads If you don't want to unravel more And Ariel Mitra is such a valuable and beautiful discussion This is such a valuable and beautiful discussion Thank you so much And there is much love and appreciation here For Kat and Bob too And Dito Ariel Thank you And Ram says Instead of directing the attention towards the thought stream Recognize What is seeing those thoughts Right now All the attention is on the fictitious seer And the fictitious scene Both of which are the sum total of this thought stream What is real is the seeing Stay with the seeing Beautiful Yeah And that's what Shia was also saying You know Where is your heart Stay with the aware-ing The knowing Not the content And Vivek says Trying to understand realization is mind Anita says hi And Anita says hi too Thank you Thank you Yeah So It really If you really completely accept that one thing The mind can never grasp it Never And quit trying to grasp it And then just Remember non-duality means not two Not two There isn't me and life Me and realization No It's all one It's just just one essence One life That one life You know you get out of the way and let it see Now the life is looking Not me tries looking Oh yeah But i'm not seeing clearly But forget about it That's just a narrative Let it see Let it hear Let the life The life The one essence See Hear Taste Touch Smell Experience And let it think whatever it wants Let it raise the thoughts Whatever You know Like let life be life Let life Life Ink See ink Like Ram was saying Just you know Don't assume That you are separate from life Because you're not You couldn't find anyone separate So just yeah If you can hear that one thing Look for the evidence that you are not separate from life Rather than yes but no this doesn't this doesn't this doesn't look for evidence that you're not Can you separate yourself from the process of seeing hearing from the process of being you can't yes I have done that yeah That's why i have done that but as i said it's the momentum That take me so much into the content so who is that me that is taken yeah I'm just using language but i can see that there is no one there's no one who's taken it's just the same way You know the thinking happens in the same way as the blood flow happens It is one of the functions of that machinery leave it alone don't bother with it The habit of prioritizing thinking and treating them seriously as if the thought is something important Is just a habit of the machinery If you see how it happens how it comes into existence That sink is clear thing Right Which is out of nowhere yeah You see how the heartbeat happens right You can put your hand on Yeah, yeah, you can see it clearly that you're not doing yeah, that's clear seeing You can see clearly that you you don't know your next thought So you're not thinking even if the thought is yes, but blah blah you don't know which one it will you know So it's not you doing it it comes up Like the heartbeat same thinking same salivating same scene So you could just completely rest your case, you know, there's nothing you can do just be the space that you are And leave everything alone And now if the resonation is to stay with the awareness Rather than follow it's content Yeah That's what life is taking you if there is no resonation and you would rather go shopping Well, that's also a life takes you There's no good or bad in it.
It's not that you are superior for staying with the awareness and inferior for going for a smoke No, especially shopping It's just let life let let go and let life they say they have this slogan let go and let god but yeah Get yourself out of the way and and just be curious about what what's the what's the next move? Where is the attention going to flow next? What's the thought is going to engage with next? Hmm And you don't know you are that field of not knowing And life will amaze you then Right Not thinking ahead what I should do not controlling anything yeah like just Seeing what happened what comes up set next Yes, and you will see that in that flow of being one with life When the control is required it will happen, but there won't be any controller of it Like you know Bob is still capable of cooking He doesn't you know, but there is no narrative.
Oh, I have to control how long I'm gonna cook this or what else am I gonna add? No, it is spontaneous action With no imagined idea of me doing anything Activities happens If you see how the narrative is constructed and taking credit for it, that's another piece of a good entertainment You see how the urge comes up to have a cup of tea and the body follows the urge and the mind quickly follows up Oh, I want a cup of tea and now it goes with the assumption. Oh, this was my idea. I Thought that thought and now the body has to obey me There's no one there.
It's just a narrative. It's a function Like you have Julia has I think I have it in my phone too something that you you mark the text and it will read it for you So the the narrative function reads the chemical Information that the body has you know if the cortisol flew to the legs to for the body to get up The narrative reads it and narrate it out loud Twisting it a little bit for the convenience of the communication adding that I And that I that is constantly changing you know when you're going for the cup of tea the I is the body But when you're fantasizing about the copacabana beach I is not the body anymore Now I is the mind Or when you are peaced off the I is the very strong sensation is there is the feeling so what is that I?
It's nothing. It's just the word. It's nothing there It's only for the sake of communication Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your question. Thank you for your diligence As you were talking I was thinking about the ideas of confusing Or confusion Well, that's what's happening when we're confused as we're trying to figure it out aren't we we're trying to know You know is that what's happening? I want to know And then we were talking earlier You know about knowing what an arrogance there is to that You know what I mean? I know now I know that's what it is and there's a rigidity a rigidity It's like a solid dim.
It's this But then maybe somewhere somehow There's a just what's ever showing up and there's not a need To know or not know or you know what I mean figure it out And I don't know if it's not knowing it's away knowing there's something knowing it's just being it's being Isn't that what's here now? Yeah The being which is also translated as I am isn't it And and if you're just staying in that Sense of being prior to those words I am Aren't you back to Which you have never left I am And there's a classic one-liner Brings a reminder of bob's classic bob's pointer How many thoughts can the corpse have?
That is a humbling realization, you know, it's nothing wrong with thinking it just kind of makes you Alive different to the corpse So hanging shit on the thinking oh, yeah, I have too many thoughts so debilitating well again life can facilitate it because yes There are situations when the racing thoughts are debilitating And life if you sit in the quiet who knows it may take you for to a mindfulness training or to a specialist who will prescribe a drug one or the other who knows or get you to some other Work that will break the pattern but again there is no doer and if it does in one case and doesn't in another that's up to life life is in unlimited So the racing thoughts They may take you somewhere else in life or they may not they may be causing just enough of a suffering to really Awaken that resonance with the idea of investigation and that will be on life, too It's not that I am the heart and mind is an alien there is two of us no I've had racing thoughts, you know, like Been in hospital with them that kind of bad, you know, and there's just nothing more helpful than than just Right this process of elimination You know who's got racing thoughts?
Let's take a look. Okay, or who's you know because like part of the thoughts But the problem with the racing thoughts is is they We they're they create conclusions Okay, that are jumped to And then there's this knowing ah, yeah I'm the reincarnation of even Mary. I just know You know, I'm that of course and there's a knowing What what could also happen? I guess is this when you when there's an investigating and there's a process of eliminating With this investigating when you're saying right a minute. All right. What what knows this? Let's take a look might be true. Who knows? It's but but but it's really I think that if Truth doesn't have a problem with being looked at and investigated Right, so if there's a willingness to investigate and you look in it.
No, well, all right, let's see Am I this body And then that's where it's so helpful to see a corpse man like if you ever had that chance, you know No way, you know, definitely not Okay, all right a belief pattern am I a belief am I my belief system that my family I've got I've had one I sometimes buy into it. Well, I'm not that Um personality Ah, here's a good one. I'm a soul That's what I am. Well, can you found let's see if I can find the boundaries of this soul that I think I am And do I have a soul without thought?
No, not a soul. Okay, um I'm an emotion I have anxiety or depression or sadness or fear or anger or whatever am I that? I haven't always been that I do like this idea of truth. You know being that never changes So it can't be this emotion. I'm not an emotion. Okay Not a belief thought emotion Behavior ah I used to smoke Am I a smoker at what point are you officially a non-smoker? Is it if I a second ago or You know, like literally I could be holding your cigarette as long as i'm not I'm not a smoke. Okay. I'm not a smoker Um, and i'm not the thinker Right, so if i'm none of these things can I actually when you look Can I find the one with the racing thoughts?
Can I find the one with those who's the reincarnation of even mary? Can I find the one who does any of this? This is so helpful Because it just it's like it reveals the bullshit and then the truth takes care of itself It reveals itself. You know what i'm saying when you just look The willingness to go. Yeah, and I think you do You know, but it's it's jay requires genuine looking because I think cat pointed out to me once You know, I used to just kind of go right. Well, can I find the one and then there was never it was just a mechanical question There was no looking Okay, but if you're genuinely looking Who can it well who's got a problem with confusion?
I do No, no, no, it's not what's that I Oh It's okay as it is isn't it I I I I I Iivoivoivo whichivoivirveivoivoivoiveivoivoivoivo doivoivo do you have to doivo just do I no?ivo You know, what has to change? Beautiful. So, just like the heartbeats and the blood flows, decision making is also spontaneous. Like that, yeah. Okay. I think that's all I wanted to know. Because I think perhaps a lot of stress comes out of trying to control your decision making. Yeah. And how your life will unfold. But then that's just an illusion to think you have control over your own decision making. Okay. It's a very persistent illusion.
There's a lot of features from it too. Yeah. Like this believing that there's a choice. You made the fit. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. It's this believing that most folks have seemingly. That there's a... Because I don't like that word choice even anymore. But if there's a belief... I believe... If I believe that I've got a choice or you have a choice, well, now as a result of believing that, you're responsible. I'm 100% responsible. That's actually the spiritual narrative in many places I've been to. You're 100%. You even chose your parents. Prove it. You know what I mean? Yeah. You chose everything. What if it's the opposite?
Like zero? Like none? Okay. But I believe I'm responsible. Now you're responsible. That means it's your fault. You're to blame. I'm to blame. And now because I'm blaming, I'm also judging. I'll hate you. Or I'll hate myself. And when I'm not doing any of that, well, I suppose hatred and judgment could still show up and pop up their evil heads once in a while. It's just... It's less probable when it's seen through. You know what I'm saying? It falls apart. It doesn't even work anymore. It doesn't make sense. I don't know. I guess there is an interest in the logic sometimes. But it's... It's just...
You're just left a bit more with allowing what is to be as it is. You know? I have a couple of comments here. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, I think that the decision making is like something I've always struggled with. Like from when I first came, it's like, well, it almost felt like it was a cop out. Like, oh, I can just use non-duality as an excuse for not doing things I think I should be doing. Because I'm like, oh, avoidance is happening. Or like, dishonesty is happening. And it's like, oh, off the hook. But I know like when I just come back on smoking, like when I quit smoking in my 20s, it was probably three years of wanting to quit.
And in retrospect, it's like, well, exactly what you were saying, Kat. Who's the one that's wanting to? And who's the one that's doing it? And if I'm wanting to, well then clearly I'm not because I'm continuing to do it. Mm-hmm. And then I guess like, because Mitra, it's all like, oh, well, you know, when I made the choice to stop smoking, it was like a line in the sand. But really it was just, that was the point at which, you know, people support or like, experiences or that desire to quit overwhelmed the pattern that was continuing to smoke. Like, but it wasn't, when you look at it in retrospect, it was actually, there was no choice as such.
It was just, as Kat was saying, like life continuing on. And all that wanting to quit, that like suffering of beating myself up, probably is just the way that life eventually moved to quitting. But then, you know, Nisga Data didn't quit smoking. He was like, sold cigarettes before enlightenment. And after. Continued to sell them and smoke them after enlightenment. And that was like, when I first read about him, that was the thing. I was all just full of judgments. I was like, well, this guy can't be legit because he kept smoking. Who would possibly smoke after awakening? But that's just the way that life, you know, is expressing.
But yeah, the choice, even now I still like think. That like, oh, I should be changing things about my life. I should be doing things. And yet life continues to go on in the direction it goes on. And the more that I'm not attempting to change it or attempting to. I'm not sure. Yeah. The more that there's not this like, I thought of, I should be doing something different, the less suffering there is. And I think that the idea that we aren't responsible for our decisions or any of this stuff is all predisposed on an I. So it's like the fundamental illusion that I am separate and I am making decisions.
That's the fundamental kind of illusion. And then that just flows into all these other kind of bits of suffering of I should have done that. I should have done this. And it's when you bring it back to the very root, it disappears. And then you just see that there's happening or there's acting or there's decisions happening or whatever. Anyway. Yeah. Beautiful. And you can, I have a couple of online comments from people who are with us. Amal Nas says, death is also part of life. Similarly, life is in death. Imagine self body mind is the corpse only. We, what we think conditioning is also spontaneous expression in thought and word doesn't pollute the self.
It's pure as it is. We have infinite choices, though it is choiceless awareness, changeless wants to change. So you can also, if you look at the decisions and the whole process of decision making or choices making, again, one of my favorite pointers that Bob uses, natural state is us in nature. How does the eagle make a choice what to hunt? It depends on what's available, isn't it? It depends whether there is day or night. So it depends on the position of the planet relative to the sun. It also depends on how hungry it is. If it just hunted five minutes ago, that's not going to happen.
So the every decision is response to the environment in which the environment is 100% participating. So we call it spontaneous because it has infinite amount of causes. And now on the rise of artificial intelligence, we will be able to maybe approximate it a little better. But I have that choice from, that example from my work. I used to work at sea as ships officer and I used to study for it for five years before. And we would learn about the mechanics of the waves formulating on the ocean. What the decision or who makes the decision or what is responsible for that particular wave, that height, that speed, that swell.
Well, it's the 10,000 things. But we would learn the equation in which you would at least need those five or six factors. Like, you know, how open the area is or how deep the water is, how strong the wind is, which is the wind direction in relative to the closeness of a shore. And what is the salinity of the water because that's the density of it. So even for that basic thing, you needed a lot of factors and that would give you a probability or predictability of the wave. And again, every wave is different. So 25% of the wave would have certain name, another amount of the waves.
That is how the whole universe function. You have the multitude of things affecting. Why would I even choose to be ship's officer? I had no ship's officers in the family. I had no idea what sort of life it was. I wasn't even growing up by the sea. The decision has shown up. And am I responsible? And you're right, you know, that having been responsible for the decision, and it was a risky decision, I could have wasted my life and shoot myself, jump off the building. You know, having a big life-altering decision to have it on your back. Oh my God, I'm going to waste my potential.
Oh, I can only choose one thing and I have two other talents that I would love to follow. Well, what a madness. What a suffering. The truth is, whatever the options arise, they arise already pre-charged. And environment keeps modifying them moment to moment. You may have two options and then tomorrow somebody says something that will resonate somewhere and life will actually take different course. And how wonderful it is that it's not that you have zero responsibility. You can imagine that you have a part of responsibility, but it's one of the infinite. But that you would be the body or the mind or the thought. All of it is involved because obviously, you know, like if you were six foot tall, you probably wouldn't be choosing to go on the submarine or maybe.
Or other things are involved and the body is involved and the mechanics of conditioning are involved. Everything is nothing excluded because it's all one. That makes it, that takes such a heavy weight of suffering off your shoulder when you realize that you can't make the decision because the 10,000 things makes it. But also your oppressors, they couldn't make a decision. They didn't choose to be narcissists, psychopaths and abusers. That is also an environment that contributed to their behavior. And then you can't blame them either. And the whole dynamic of creating a story of victim, that would be a beautiful story still, but it loses its base.
No responsibility and yet there's still an ability to respond. Yeah, inevitable. Yeah. And love to everyone from Gilbert. And thank you everyone for hanging out with us. Thanks everyone. Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.