Is there a YOU to have an awareness? Sailor Bob and nonduality team. 11 Feb 2024

So thanks, I'm telling you our names. Tess. Linda. Marty. Julia. Benita. Cliff. Tony. Chris. Michael. Amy. Jay. Ross. Katie. David. Michael. Dina. Dina. And Bob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You have all heard it before. No. Michael, it's me. Michael, you have not to be a problem, Aam, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, to be a problem, You've all heard it before.

No. Michael's new. Michael's got one brand new, Bob. Someone brand new here. He can't do a couple of... Someone brand new here, Michael. There he is. Good to see you. Hi, Richard. Is it? Are you going to be all right? Are you going to be all right? Here. We've all heard it before. It's the same old thing we talk about. Non-duality, they call it. Non-duality is an ancient religion. it's Hinduism, Advaita, translated. Meaning one without a second, not two, only that. That's the great mantra, I am that. And we don't recognise that. But it's quite easy to see that that's the chair you're sitting in, that's the room the chair's in, that's the person sitting next to you, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's everything is that which we discriminated with the word.

We put chair, table, room or whatever, me, you, are discriminating the word. But it is only that meaning one life, one essence, one intelligence, one being. That is all there is. And another way they say is what is. What is is not what was, or not what will be. It's what is right now. It's another way of putting it, being, knowing, loving to be. Anyone who is not being right now, you'll say, of course I'm being. Anyone who is not conscious, there's no one sitting here who is unconscious, or unaware. And you all want to be, they call loving to be. You don't want to be dead right at this moment.

So, all these ways we're putting it, you must realise that it is already so. And we've got the idea, with a sense of separation that has come upon us through learning the words that we need to become something. And we've got to try to become this or that, or realise, or liberate, or whatever. But it's being. Being can never be becoming. Because becoming implies a future time. And so, that makes you, if you look at time, is there such a thing as time? Is there a past if you don't think about it? Well, you can't say there's a past unless you think about it. You'll say, I was in the past.

Well, if you think you're in the past, try and live it. Try and go back and live yesterday. Or five minutes ago. You can't go back and live. It's gone. But you can recall it. And the only actuality you give in it is when you're recalling it right now. And what about the future? You can't live in the future. You can't tell me, you can't live in what you're going to do when you leave here. But you can imagine it and anticipate it. And when it happens, whatever happens then, it will be right now. It won't be in the future. So, where does that leave you?

Present and aware. And that sense of presence is with you right now. You know that you are right here, right now. That sense of presence is with you. So, what I pointed to is the fact of your being, your reality. Not as the person. The person is the idea of being a separality, an individual. And where does that word person come from? The ancient Latin persona, the mask. So, we've got this mask of concepts. And I think I am Bob, the Australian, the good fella, or not so good. All concepts. All taken on board by that I am. And Sarkar tells you to stay with that I am-ness.

And we think he's saying, repeat, I am, I am. That is romantic. He's not saying that. He's saying, what's that I am represent? It represents the sense of presence. The knowing that you are. Anybody ask who you are? You'll say, I am so-and-so. Whatever your name might be. But you give them the wrong thing. Because you are not that person. You are not that name. You are not that label. You are the life. The intelligence, energy. The activity of knowing. The one reality. And that's what they say. It's only one reality. They don't call it God, if you like. Call it all sorts of different labels.

The great perfection. The absolute. Different labels they put on that. And there are so many different words for this God. Every so-called religion has got a different idea or concept about this. What this God is. Tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. And that's all that God is. It's a word. A label, we put. All things were made by Him. By the Word. Isn't that so? All these things in this room. You've got words or labels on. And there's nothing made without the Word. So we've got a lot of conceptual images. Seeing things including itself.

We're putting labels on it or words. And have a look at the Word. Is the Word the thing? Take the word water. Drink the Word if you can. Swim in it. Drown in it. You can't. The Word fire. Cook with the Word fire. Eat yourself with the Word. What's the word I or me then when you look at it in that light? Are you this body? Are you this mind? Are you this person? And lately you know you're not. That's because you say, my body. You say, my house, my car, my coat. You know you're not the house, the car and the coat. Or maybe you're not my body either if you look at it.

And when you look at it, you'll see it so. Because that's what they tell us also. The false cannot stand up to investigation. Investigating all these concepts we have or beliefs and look into them. And if they're not the actual, they're not the real, they'll fall apart under that investigation. But we don't question them. We take it all for granted because we've learnt it when we were kids. Our parents told you this, that matter. We've taken it on board without question. Go to school, learn more words and concepts. And not until something might move you, there's got to be a bit more to life than what this is.

You go and a lot of us take up some of the religions that our parents took on. And they're telling you, you're a terrible sinner, you're a bad person, you've got to watch this and be careful of that. And we've got all these psychological patterns about it because we take the belief that we are this separate entity. And they say, look at that, what's the case of this stuff? Thought, feeling and emotion. That's the way this life essence is functioning. There's a thought there. And that thought stays there for a while. And then the sensation that comes up with that thought, what we believe the thought is, turn into the feeling.

And we take on board the feeling. It can be fear, anger, depression, guilt, shame. All the psychological problems are thought. Feeling and emotion. It's the same thing that's happening in nature. Instead of thought, feeling and emotion. It's the sun shining. You go outside in a cloudy day, you don't see the sun. When you say the sun's not in the sky, you've investigated and know the sun never leaves the sky. But when you ask yourself what forms the cloud, and you realize the sun itself forms the cloud. But the sun doesn't know anything about the cloud. But what does the sun do? It shines, and in its radiance, in its heat, it evaporates water.

The water rises up and cools down, condenses and forms a cloud, which obscures the sun. The sun keeps shining and cooled down or whatever, and the cloud will cool down and come down as rain. Go into water or ice, and solid. But it's still the same thing. See, that's how the body functions, with thought, feeling and emotion. A thought comes up and obscures that pure life essence that you are, the pure intelligence, the pure being, knowing and loving to be. And obscures it. And that thought will come up in a sensation or a feeling, and it's good, it's bad, it's pleasant, it's painful, unhappy. And then the emotion comes about from that feeling.

The thought, feeling and emotion are appearing as concepts and ideas in this pure life or pure intelligence energy. And are you this body? You say, my body? You say, my house, my car? What's the body made up of? When you investigate, you'll see it's made of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. There's nothing but elements around you. And that's what this body is. It is those elements. Take the air out of your body, see how long it lasts. Take the fire, the body temperature. It just wouldn't last too long. Take the water, your body's 60% water. Get off the earth, get out of space.

So you realise you're not separate from those elements. And those elements appear to be solid and substantial. And we take them to be real. But that life that you are, presence, awareness, and there's anyone, there's no one who is not unaware right now. And what, primarily, what are you aware of? You're aware of the presence, of being. You're aware of being. And being is not becoming. Being is what is happening right now. You call yourself a human being. Call God the supreme being. Take away the label human off. Take away the label supreme. Try and separate your being. Try and tell me that you're not.

And being is not becoming. It's being. It's going on right now. You are being. You are being. You are knowing that being. And you are happy to be. You don't want to be dead. But when we go into the other direction and take this pattern shape and form this body mind to be what I am, that becomes fearful, anxious. Because the sense of separation comes about with it. I am not that. I am not that life. I am this body. I am the spine. I am a separate entity, an individual, a person. And that sense of separation is the cause of all that psychological suffering.

It's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be unhappy. Me can be ancient, accident, activity. Me is the cause of all the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame, the memorial, and all this psychological suffering that's going on in this body. It's all relating to me. We think that it's me that's doing it. And me is a concept. A word. A word we learn. And they call it non-conceptual awareness. Thought-free presence awareness. Awareness that's free of concepts, free of thoughts. And look at that and see, investigate that. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Well, have a look at that.

What can you say without the thought? You can't say it's good without a thought or bad without a thought. You can't say anything at all about it without the thought. And without saying anything about it, and left as it is, what happens? It changes. And you look into this manifestation, this life, and see it's constantly changing. It's transient. That body that you call you is changing right now. Not the same body you walked into this room with. There are thousands of cells dying right at this moment and being replaced. And each cell that's being replaced knows what to do. It's diffused with that intelligence because the liver cell won't become a skin cell.

And the skin cell won't become a brain cell. And look out the manifestation and see all this manifestation. Where does it appear? Where does it appear? And you look out and see, it needs to appear in something. And you realise, what's the very first thing you see? You'll say, I see you, or see me, or see this, or see that. And we ignore and miss out on the obvious thing we see is the space. The very first thing you see is space. And then when you look at it, you realise that all these things, including you, me, and everything else, is the content of space.

Can you postulate or think of anything outside of space? Space is no thing. It has no shape, no form, no centre, no circumference, no boundaries, no beginning, no end. It's no thing. But can you postulate or think of anything at all outside of space? And they tell you that too. They tell you it's a space-like awareness. And all this manifestation, that's the patterns, shapes and forms, the body, minds and things, are adornments of that space. They're attached to the space. The patterns, shapes and forms are adornments of it. They're not the space itself. And when you look at that, space is no thing. And can something, it's all the content of space, can something come from no thing?

It can't. So you and I, they were appearing to be real, solid and substantial. And everything else in this manifestation is no thing. But the reality of it is that space-like awareness. That space-like awareness is everything in which the no thing appears. And seems to be so. So everything is the no thing and the no thing is the everything. It's not divided. And you see that when the thoughts come up, it's good, it's bad, it's bad and it's painful. And we like one and don't like the other, we think it's separation. But they're all two ends of the one stick. Couldn't be good without bad.

Couldn't be pleasant without pain. Couldn't be happy without sadness. Couldn't be you without me. It's all the content of that basic state which they call awareness or knowing or beingness. It's all the absolute one essence. Patterning, shaping, forming, appearing, expressing as everything. And everything is a no thing. When we see no thing, we think nothing. A vacuum and a void. It's not that. It is no thing when it has got no shape, pattern or form. Now when you go to sleep at night and you have a dream, what do you do in the dream? All sorts of pattern, shapes and forms appear. Seemly solid, seemly real.

And you see this believed in concept you have about yourself is taking an active part in the dream. Doing all sorts of things. All sorts of things are happening. And seemly active part in the dream. When you wake up, what happened? You realise that body hadn't moved off the bed. No words had come out of your mouth. It had all taken place in the seemingly space like awareness. That you are. A dream. And it all disappears. All the dream stuff disappears. But you don't realise when you wake up in the morning, you wake up in the morning. This starts, the awakening state starts off from where it left before, the night before.

It doesn't, hasn't disappeared, it's coming out again. There's still the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, touching, smelling is there. And we take it to be real. Not real, like this is a waking dream. And the other dream, the dream dream is seen for what it is. Not real. And we don't recognise this as a saying. As though it appears to be so, it's not how it appears or seemingly is. And we can get all the conceptual idea and concepts about it. And this makes us fearful, anxious and unhappy because we're constantly relating to this believed in entity. When a parent told you, you are little Johnny or your little Billy or little Jane, whatever your name might be.

And you think that's what this shape and form is. This body-mind, this pattern, shape and form. We take it to be that. And it becomes fearful, anxious because the sense of separation is loneliness, it's isolation. That separation that we live in, believed in separation. And so it's seemingly strong. To realise there's nothing separate, separate, it's the one essence that's appearing as everything. And recognising that, what would happen? When you realise it's only me that can be fearful, it's only me that can be anxious, jealous, envied, guilty. Me, this conceptual image-raiser. And the great reality is absolute. It's non-dual. They call it non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any comps.

Absolute. It's a big difference, isn't it? From the isolated, separate entity, the person and me. And because of that sense of separation, it's fearful, it's anxious, it's unhappy, depressed, guilty, jealous, envied. If you see that the me is the cause of all these fears, anxiousness, and all the depression and all of it, and the effects are the anxious, the fears and all of it, they're the effects of the cause. Of relating to the cause. All our problems are problems of relationship. Relationship is relative too. Dualism. And there's no such, absolutely no duality, they tell you, in non-duality. Absolutely none whatsoever. So when the thoughts come up and we divide them, recognise it's not so.

And realise, well take again a look at nature and see how nature's functioning. Learn these things, see them for yourself, know them, And the truth will set you free. You see the earth rolling around the sun, you know that. It's been pointed out, and you know it's so. Now this part of the earth is facing towards the sun. What is it? It's facing towards the sun, it's full of light. It's daylight. What's the other side of the globe? It's the round globe, it's the other side facing away from the sun. And the sun can't get through this to the other side, Daylight and dark, two pairs the opposite.

But are they so? Does the earth know anything about daylight and dark? It doesn't. Does the sun know anything about daylight and dark? It doesn't. It just shines of itself. And in that shining and moving around, the animation, the intelligence energy, that changes around. But it comes around. And the same way it's coming around, the warmth of the heat of the sun can form the different seasons. Winter, summer, autumn, spring, different seasons. They happen, they come about. And they're not fighting with others to change around. Just like the earth rolling around the sun, it's not fighting with it. They come around themselves. But with us, we've got the good and we don't want the bad.

So we try and get rid of the bad. Not realizing it's going to change in itself, if left as it is. If you're in tune with it, if you're in one with it, it's going to naturally change. We try to change it. So we resist it from being there. Instead of leaving it as it is and allowing it to happen, we resist it. And resistance is conflict. You're resisting something, you're fighting with it. You're trying to keep it there. And conflict makes you unhappy, fearful, anxious, depressed. Me is the cause of all the psychological suffering. And that unhappiness is uneasiness, another word for it. And another word for uneasiness is dis-ease.

You're not at ease. That's what goes on in our life. There's resistance, conflict and dis-ease. Something comes up so you like it. Things you like, we want to keep there. We don't want this to go. So we resist it from going, trying to keep it there. Trying to keep it there, we're conflicted because it's naturally trying to move along. And we don't want to keep it there and hold it in its place. It won't happen. So we're in conflict with it and struggle with it. And can't hang onto it. So resistance, conflict and dis-ease. But what happens if I recognise that me, the believed in self-centred, that's believed in me, that thinks it's an individual, a person, a separate entity, is seeing that it is not that separate entity.

See that the cause, me, is a fiction. Well, if it's not related to a cause, ask yourself, can there be any effect? Can there be any effect? Can there be any fear, the anger and the depression and that, if you're not relating to the cause, me? Can there be an effect if it's not related to the cause? And cause and effect is what they call karma. And most, a lot of us have got the idea about this karma. It's going to get me and do this to me to that. But if it's not relating to the cause, me, where can it lodge? It'll change by itself, which it does change by itself.

And you know that if you pause a little while to see how your life has gone on. It's changed, it's continually changing in transit. You've struggled with lots of things, trying to make the change come about. Some of the thinking has helped in some ways or other, but mainly it's caused problems. It can be useful in some respects. It's why we have the capacity of reasoning and thinking. But when we've got the belief in it, it's what's the cause of all our problems. The belief in conceptualising, taking it to be real. So seeing that cause and effect are so-called karma, and without relating to cause there can be no effect.

So if I've been unhappy, miserable, fearful and anxious, wouldn't that be the way out? To recognise and see if it's so or not? If I'm not relating to anything, what is it? Everything is just as it is. And as it is means it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Lift as it is. It's pure being, pure knowing and pure loving to be. And it's transient. It's continually changing. Or the absolute, or the great perfection. If you are absolute, what can be added to absolute? It wouldn't be absolute if you can add anything at all to it. And what could be taken away from it? It wouldn't be absolute if there was anything taken away from it.

Well, if you look at everything and see everything as as it is right now, with nothing added or nothing taken away, left as it is, who could be superior to you? We talk about this one, this one's better than I am. I don't like this, I don't like that. Well, there I feel inferior to this other one. Who could be inferior to you? You realise that the absolute, no one's superior, no one inferior. And what would you want from the other person? Now see the way this world's functioning. With all the concepts that are going on, the fear and anxiety, the wars and everything. People are feeling something, they're losing something.

Others are feeling they've got to get something, attain something. No one is ever just happy to be, while they're living from that point of view. And those down through the ages of recognisers, tell you, that life can be a beautiful thing, an amazing, wondrous thing. And they tell you they've pointed it out. And formed, they've formed religions and teachings around it. And it's been passed on from one to the other, down through the ages. And religions are formed around it. But of course they're being formed like that, that a lot of them get corrupted. And lose on, and they tell you you're a sinner and no good.

And try to rule you and make you do this and do that. Instead of leaving everything as it is. And those that have done that, have settled down and had a good understanding of it. And they see the peace and the love and joy expressing through them. And others hear it. But some in the religious religions that have corrupted it, what have they done? They've given you rules and regulations, things to do and not to do. And if you don't do this and don't do that, you'll be a terrible sinner. You'll be this, that and the other. Put the fear of hell, of God into you, if you like to call it that.

With the concepts and ideas. And what have we done? We've set them up as saints, sages, saviours and seers. And worshipped the messenger. The messenger is nothing. Just you, me or anything. Be the messenger. But the message is what is the reality. Get the message. And live and realise and recognise and be the message. Add to it. Be that livingness, be that life essence. The being, knowing and loving to be. That'll do I think. Some of you here know it. So I say, don't hesitate to point it out in your words. Because your words might be a bit different to the words here. And someone here might resonate with them.

And you know that's how it happens, is the resonation. Something moves you to, you hear something and it resonates. And you'll say, I felt it heartfelt. They call it heartfelt. And they point it at their chest and think it's heart. We take that to be the physical heart. And it's not the physical heart at all. Using heart as the core of your being. The symbol, the spirit. And you know what heart to heart is. When you hear someone's sad story and you like them or something. Or have a bad accident or something. And you say and relate it to something else. My heart went out on it.

You knew what it was. And that sensation, that resonation. And when you hear it and resonate with it and recognise the truth of it, you know what it is also. And that's when you take it further. And look into it more. And the more it's resonated with it and looked into, the easier it becomes. And the less and less you're locking into the psychological part of it, where most of our time is locked into that because we don't, when the thoughts come up, we don't give them a chance to settle and look into them. We go into the fear and the anger, the depression. But in resonating with it and recognising the truth, the being, the wellness of being, the joy of being, it grows in you until it becomes, or it becomes, or it is, until the recognition is there, that I am that life.

I am that truth. I am that being. I am that loving to be. I am that. That is what I am. I'm not this person. I am not this body. I am not this mind. Try it and see. Test it out. And as I say, those that know it, tell it, knows it, hear and haven't heard it and have got any questions or doubts about it, ask about it, question about it. Look at it yourself. Nobody's going to give it to you. We go to these people and think they're going to give us that and give us something or another. How can they? When there is nothing other than that.

They can't talk to anybody. As I say, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. Because as far as I'm concerned, there's no body. There's no mind. I'm talking to that I am that I am. The sense of presence, which expresses through the mind here, as that thought I am. Expressing there where so-called you are, the same way, as that thought I am. Just to this, I'm speaking just to this, nothing else. And the other way is what it is, I can't tell you anything. I can't teach you anything. And that's why I say nobody can give it to you. No, because there is no other that will teach you anything.

I can't tell you anything. I can't teach you anything. I can only point toward and ask you to look to where I'm pointing through. Not only pointing with a finger, but with the words, the ideas and everything. And see for yourself. And they tell you that. Look for yourself. The false cannot stand up to investigation. These false concepts that we've taken on board and are living, and they've got hold of us, been living for years. We keep relating to them and believing in, and they're seemingly real. But a little bit of investigation, you'll see that they're not real. Who am I? Well, I know that I am.

I cannot negate that. But what's the label or shape or form of putting on that? Am I this body? Am I this mind? Or am I that sense of presence? I am present and aware. Is the life, is the body, is the life in the body or is the body in that life? And when I look at it and realize that this body was formed from the life that was in my presence, I've given, put the life into it. And everything else, the life was there first. Then the pattern shapes and forms through which it expresses through comes about. Take a stance from that position and see how it is.

This body is just a vehicle, as I say. It's a conceptual vehicle in space. An appearance in space. Because space is everything. And there is nothing you can postulate or think of, can be outside of that space. Space is no thing. And so that, everything appears in space, space is no thing. So everything is the no thing. And the no thing is everything. So there it is. Again. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you know, action of avoiding pain or action of following pleasure or action of fulfilling desire, feeding the body. You can actually just simplify them all to the need of the survival for the body.

Do you make any effort to take a breath or beat your heart? No. Or grow your hair in your fingernails, digest your food? That's what intelligence energy, the activity of being, is doing all the time. It's patting, shaping, forming, expressing all these different pattern, shapes and forms for the experiencing to happen. But what's your next thought going to be? You can't tell me. What's your next thought? The thought will come up and you say, I think. So when you say, I think, you formed a thinker, a subject. Instead of leaving the thinking as it is where it will change, and now you formed a thinker, I think, and the thought you think has become the object.

So you're into that dualism. And with the dualism, you're always trying to become something instead of being. Relax and be. There is one more question from Tristan. I have glimpses of it when I remember to look. How can I sustain it through more of my life? How can I sustain it through more of my life? Thanks, Obankat. Keep looking. Seeing. Yeah, initially it may be required. Keep looking. Seeing. You're seeing. And they say, seeing no thing. Yet it is seen. You understand what that means? Well, you're seeing all these pattern, shapes and forms, but they are no thing. They're all appearances in space. But you're seeing the space.

You know the space. And what we're seeing is appearance, all these appearances are no thing. And you're seeing it all. And that's it for the online community contribution. And now the mic goes to you. Tony. Tony. I was thinking life can really just be seen as a movement from high pressure to low pressure. And so the story of survival doesn't even need to come into it. That's all there is really. Yeah, what makes something a thing or a no thing is how it's perceived or how it's labelled in the mind. And the other thing about the effort, what makes something an effort is how it's labelled in the mind too.

I mean, is going to the kitchen to get a glass of water an effort or is it running around the block is an effort, it's energy appearing in a way. But it's labelled effort or this is nothing, this is matter, this is energy. It's discriminated in the mind. We call it mind. We call it mind. But is there such a thing as mind apart from thought? And Shakespeare tells you there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And that's what the so-called mind does. It vibrates. It's sound, it's word, it's noise. That's all mind. It's vibrating into different patterns which we form words out of with the innate intelligence in this body.

And the words seemly real but the words are not the thing. In mind, no mind. In the word, no word. In the thought, no thought. Julian? What's coming to mind is a quote from Yoda. Try not. Do or do not. There is no try. Star Wars. Right. It's good luck. Yeah? There's another story I remember hearing somebody else talk about with little kids in school. And I think what's happening is there's a seemingly, there's a claiming. They're not noticing the claiming. But there's a me that needs to pretend or at least make the teacher think I am trying. I'm trying, you see? I'm really trying.

I'm really trying to get this to understand. I'm trying to let go. Trying. You know? There's another great quote I loved about trying. It's wanting approval for something you have no intention of doing. So there's nobody here to try. I think that's really one of the central things, pointers that you're pointing at is really, you know, if it comes down to anything at all, it's no thing and no one. Not nothing. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? So on this idea of trying, I have some friends that I know. Lovely people. Okay? They are trying. Okay? They think they're trying to let go. They want, they have an interest in having a higher vibration.

You know, they want to have this higher, you know, be more still and silent. And they want to, they have an interest in no spiritual bypassing. Ooh, no, that would be spiritual bypass. If I just say who gives a shit or who's caring or who's, and then I just see, I haven't done the efforting. You see, there's supposed to be some efforting. Not just seeing that, well, the thing that you thought was a snake was really a rope. And when you see that, the need to let go and all, it just falls. I don't know if I'm making any sense here, but what I'm trying to point out here is just try.

I'm pointing at trying. Okay? This trying. And, you know, so I think something I was wanting to chat about today was just this one friend. I got this one lovely friend who he wants to, you know, not spiritually bypass, you know, because he doesn't want to, like, that's a cop out. Yeah, just saying there's nobody here to do anything, you know. And I can understand kind of like where they're coming from. It's kind of like, you know, if I was living with you and I make a mess and I don't clean up after myself in the kitchen. And then you say, well, you left a mess in the kitchen.

And I'm like, yeah, nobody leaves a mess. You know what I mean? It can... It's probably a different intention. You see, there is a different intention in wanting the truth. Like in Zen, they say, when you want the truth as badly as you want the air, when you have your head submerged under the water for two or three minutes, then you are actually ready to look for it. If you want to be on the path and you want to be more spiritual or you want to be more holy or you want to become more whatever or you want to, you know, resolve your childhood traumas or you want to do, you know, wonderful.

There's a belief in a you that's doing that. What's wrong with that? If that is how life wants to express through this body, that there is a me who wants to elevate my vibrational frequency to be more loving, wonderful. That person is not interested in finding the truth. They may believe that having more pleasure in life or more loving life is the ultimate truth. And that is, again, life expressing. I would not invite those people to actually listen to non-duality because what's the point? There is really no necessity for life experiencing itself directly through everybody. It's okay if life wants to experience itself as a director of a great symphonic orchestra and without bypassing spend thousands of hours of learning of directing the orchestra or being the orchestra of the very fine vibrational frequencies of unconditional love or whatever.

And there is a sense of worship, achieving it slowly by effort, by pain. How beautiful. If you see that for you, you know there is the same life expressing as that. Fantastic chef or fantastic mathematic teacher or scientist. They don't really, you know, they don't have their head under the water for two minutes. They don't have to look for the ultimate truth. That sense of seeking more pleasure or more fulfillment or more refined loving energy is the sense of life. It gives them direction. It gives them pleasure. My mother is one of those people. She doesn't ever want to find because she loves the seeking.

There's no idea of passing by passing. And she's not the doer of that either. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the beauty of the life expressing like, you know. The people I'm referring to, by the way, are already, you know, non-duality students. So that's all I'm pointing at is just that, yeah, they're missing a point. They don't have their head under the water. They don't obviously suffer strongly enough to actually really, really long for liberation. If there is time for some sort of a practice or effort or something, if there is still, you know, that sense of, I have to do everything or I, you know, I have, you know, I need seven lifetimes or, you know, obviously there is that way that life is dancing that dance.

And that is to be honored. That is to be, yeah, okay, wonderful. Okay, tell me how you're going. You know, you can check in with them once in a month. Oh, are you in a closer? Oh, cool. That's fantastic. And just be the space of listening, receiving life reflected and expressing itself this way. Yes? There's only life. Intelligence, energy. By the way, the universe and everything in its function implies it's infused with an innate natural intelligence. It's not an actual little willy-nilly, fattening, shaping, forming. It's all intelligence. And intelligence is knowing. Knowing is an activity. Any activity is a movement of energy. So it's intelligence, energy, patterning, shaping, functioning, appearing and expressing as everything.

So all these so-called others, whether they're looking for it or whether they're not, everything is that. Mm-hmm. Only that. Whether they believe it or not. Non-duality, non-duality is about questioning the beliefs. And that does not exclude a belief in lifetimes, reincarnation, spiritual passing or bypassing. All of the beliefs have to be questioned. So if someone sits under the umbrella or label that they are doing non-duality, and they are not willing to question beliefs, then, yeah, wonderful, keep dancing. That's it. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't take you anywhere. It doesn't do anything. Unless, really, there is a, there is that strong urge to really look, to truly investigate, to truly question.

That, yeah, that life can just unfold as a beautiful dance. It's nothing wrong. No one is at fault. No one is at fault. I wasn't trying to say anything was wrong. I was just trying to say that I think that these people who have already been students are missing the point that there isn't anyone to do anything. That's all. Yeah. I was just sitting and, you know, body, I'm just breathing, basically. And, you know, we've got people, faces that seem familiar. And, you know, I remember some names, Dean, Bob, Ross, Julia, you know, and that is all happening in my mind. And, you know, it's creating this story and, you know, it's creating this seeming separation.

And then Bob says, you know, there's, there's actually nothing good or bad, but I think he makes it so. And it's kind of just, you know, it's kind of just as me sitting without any labels of anything. And it just all seems to blend into nothing. And, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, whether you're at work, you've got your friend, your colleagues, you're at work, it's lunchtime. all of these ideas that just kind of seemingly cover the presence instead of just saying that the presence is just fresh and new and there's no one here Dean you're gonna say that one more please please that is a really good point you know that the communities have been formed around those ideas and they serve a purpose a beautiful purpose I didn't really have anything to say I'm just saying you've got plenty to say haven't you I'm not going to listen to what you say in your spiel today Bob you spoke about a few things like thought, feeling and emotion and anyway just a little story and sort of similar to what Marty's saying yesterday I went travelling and running errands around different suburbs and areas and in the journey some of the areas were places from the past that I grew up in and whatever and then it was just so fascinating watching the way the mind was working so it picked up like some thoughts about something and then it grew up and then the thought became a feeling oh that felt good when oh it's all changed and all of a sudden there was these ideas that were formulating that oh this place is now it used to be like this and now it's like this and these stories like were just appearing but what was really fascinating was that within these stories were there was embedded a character called Dean embedded in the story like like very sneakily sort of put in there and all of a sudden it's like this is my story and I was just watching this like it started off by just like an image and a thought oh that was that's that and then it just grew from that to become my story and then it's like this is what I'm describing now and you could see how it could easily you could easily get entangled and confused and misidentified with the whole thing very like that like this is within the space of five minutes or whatever and then it's within the space of five minutes or whatever and then the recognition is like it's clear that this is you know like you're saying Bob everything the emptiness is suffused with intelligence or knowing knowing the movement itself is is is the knowing like the way it moves and like as you described like the sun um self shining and um in itself um it's self emanate it it it's it's the light in the sun are the same thing it's yeah um I don't know I'll just stop now that's about enough I'll just give it to Michael and you've got something I'll just I'll think of Richard's always got something good to say maybe not today no I'll try not to disappoint Bob you spoke of uh dream and you spoke of space um when the body's asleep the body called Bob is asleep do you have awareness of the space when you're not actually dreaming in other words do you have do you experience night awareness what do you what do you what do you when you are sleeping do you know you're sleeping when you're not dreaming do you when you're not dreaming are you aware of the spot the non-dreaming space do you have night awareness when I when I'm sleeping in deep sleep no but when I wake up I realize I slept well so there's a recognition there must have been an awareness of my unawareness even in that sleep but as the person I don't know anything about it no but what what about the overarching self is is that does that awareness continue when there is no dreaming taking place awareness is all there is yes but it's one thing about being all there is and there's another being aware of awareness are you unaware right now if you're not unaware right now you must be aware without trying to grasp with the concept true enough but I'm not asleep hmm I'm not asleep at least as far as I know I'm not snoring anyway but what is sleeping what is sleeping sleeping is the mind the mind falls asleep when the mind falls asleep when the mind falls asleep the recording is stopped it's paused ah but I'm not talking yes people are telling you that they have their mind active while they are sleeping then obviously that's just that's the difference I'm not talking about the mind though I'm talking about awareness of awareness when asleep is that does it how many awareness do you have now well there should be one continual awareness and that should continue whether you're dreaming or not yes it is and that's that's my question yes it is but is it aware of itself indeed is it aware of itself it needs consciousness to reflect in yes it is yes but are you saying consciousness consciousness consciousness during dreamless sleep is unconscious it can't be yes it is or isn't yes awareness is life itself is awareness continuous is what I'm asking yes there's only life nobody who lives the life so there is no unconsciousness during dreamless sleep no what the body is doing I couldn't let that know I can't tell you ok I'm just going to share that like what it's worth like I had many experiences of being aware of deep sleep right so quite a few different experiences of this and I was quite proud of them in the end because I thought wow there's something's aware of nothing um and it was just dead seal complete silence and there was like this when it finished it was like oh I know there's something that but you know what it's not even true it's it was it was an illusion it was a trap it was like a like a game for the mind to try to attain some some goal something higher state of whatever and um in the end um there was some subtle movement that allowed the recognition to be aware of of that does that make sense so that so that there wasn't completely deep sleep there was a the slightest movement I realized later the slightest movement which could enable a recognition if that makes sense does that make sense not really no no oh good that's nice yeah you you oh sorry share it five minutes five minutes yeah I had a friend who had the same as Dean but they could hear chickens running around outside but again it's just you know you can make a concept out of it it's just life as well you know and I personally don't even agree with the whole awareness thing because when the thinking's not happening there's no such thing as awareness or consciousness or any of it there's just there's nothing to be said about anything there's nothing thought about anything it's just what's here and it's not a to me that awareness and consciousness are still concepts to me I mean just when the brain's off those things aren't showing up as thoughts at all or notions well I go for days with no thought there's no awareness how how that's a concept isn't it there must be because I'm you know isn't it just a logical thought no there's nothing exactly and that's so where's the awareness of nothing no thing where's the awareness of nothing there's no thing exactly aware of nothing yeah and how do you know you're aware there's no thing awareness is right awareness of awareness so where does this idea of awareness of awareness come up if no thing is going on no thoughts are arising there's a request just presence yeah there's presence so why is awareness part of that well you put it up there just present now doesn't need to include something called awareness or consciousness yeah it's just present yeah consciousness usually I think it's logic when people then say there must be awareness because otherwise this wouldn't be noticed but it isn't being noticed when no thoughts about noticing are arising well speak for yourself it's just a general experience and nothing more you know general experience nothing more interesting discussion but it may be something it may be just memory too that there is no memory of consciousness in that state you know that aware sometimes we're aware of dreaming sometimes we're not the next morning sometimes we remember dreams well sometimes not who knows if we can remember remember everything that's going on in the mind or not going on in the mind during sleep but I was just going to say something to what Dean was talking about because often think about memory and what makes it and there's something physical about memory too like I think often about like a street that I lived in twenty years ago or something if I said go around the corner from that street I wouldn't remember anything about it I couldn't tell you a thing about that street but if I go there physically go to that street and walk around that corner I'll remember everything about it I'll remember the gates and the things that we used to write things on and stuff like that all that is physically there the mind goes there and reconstructs it from the physical being there so I often think of memory being something external to the mind or something that the mind can tap into I'm not sure it's something that I find really interesting and that's what we call what we remember like that is what we call our self too because I'll say I know it because I was there or I remember being there and that's you know that's how we construct that idea of self too is what we can remember personally that other people don't remember either I suppose there's a one of the philosophers or whatever they call them I don't know I forget his name wrote a book Self-Aware Universe Yeah I remember that book Self-Aware Universe There's only awareness I read that book years ago I haven't I haven't really but the title title It's a good book I just I just just I'll point out that there's I had experience some time ago of mind completely going body was awake but mind got went lasted for four days and I don't know if the body slept or not I didn't because it was just pure unbounded consciousness awareness awareness but then some sensations of the body started to come back it would appear to me now through those experiences and the near death experience I had as well that there are there is movement all the time at that level of awareness you know there's there's completely unbounded awareness without any connection Yeah to anything that's solid it's just everything is seen through everything you know everything is direct experiencing without any interpretation right up to you know this is the human body and the personality and all that sort of stuff there's moved there appears to be movement there that's what that's that's been my experience and I suspect we've all got different experiences you know where the consciousness or the awareness moves and who is what is moving and what is not moving you know that's that's just a mind thing the direct experiencing of it and that's what you're talking about isn't it yeah I'm talking about the unboundedness complete unbounded awareness the unbounded awareness yes it's just complete emotion and the sensations coming from the body very small not sure what the body's quite doing it's just doing but it changes but yours doesn't change is that what you're saying?

when I'm in unboundedness it's not eternal when I'm in unboundedness so there's a when when unboundedness exists it is unbounded yes but then your your your experience I'm sorry I'm just so wondering about this because then your experience of self and person and you know eating and sleeping and stuff come back yeah? well I can say just one more thing I want to add to that is that as a result of that experience that experience or that awareness has never been covered again it's never been not known but at times there's still reaction comes up and there's still body and there's still you know an apparent life being lived so I'm just interested really in what your experience directly specifically around that stuff is there is no limit to it everything everything that exists is happening within it yeah true but still there's somebody wondering something question no no so that changes there's a kind of movement there yes?

Richard does come back yes so that's the interesting thing and that is the thing I like to ask Bob about what? about who is Richard? coming back correct there appears to be a movement within um unbounded awareness a movement appears to occur unbounded awareness is unbounded has no limitations um yeah um but um but then the experience you know the questioning mind or the reactive person or the or the personality uh you know the vehicle the apparent and I call it apparent vehicle and apparent person there's a movement seems to be a movement there yeah it's all activity it's all energy but awareness there's there's there's only awareness and then consciousness comes upon awareness yeah awareness is pure mm-hmm and then the consciousness comes upon the aware of conscious of this that or the other the words come up right yeah yeah because uh when the uh when there was just pure unbounded awareness there's no thought no consciousness there's nothing that's a that's having a reflection of that it's pure unbounded there's mind no mind at all but then the mind comes back but that that that experience is still present uh it appears or experience or you know that whatever that is yeah experiencing yeah the words experiencing experiencing yeah right you might notice that the person is when you come seemingly conscious again the person is reconstructed because i think oh where am i oh what's what what what am i doing oh i meant to do this or something or other all those sort of thoughts start coming back yeah thought comes up about it about the uh presence about who i am and what i've been doing yeah yeah it's a very interesting thing that's kind of Bob would you say something please yeah without the word where is any of it happening is there such a thing without the word exactly but there is a movement though into word and away from word and into mind and away from mind there seems to be a movement it's not fixed it's not you've reached there and that's it and you know all that sort of thing but it's just any movement is an activity any activity is energy yeah and this is perhaps helpful what Tony was suggesting forget about the word awareness it's so confusing yes the word is very light and it's so confusing space you know Bob sometimes says call sky like awareness or space like awareness it doesn't suggest there is anything well the direct experience is pure unbounded awareness not bounded by anything that's the direct experience but it's still it there's no but but it's still it awareness it there is an there is a presence it presence only that's the only thing we don't have any reflection on it so that is a thing you know that is an it if you want to give it a diss when we talk about it because language talks about it right and you know it's reflecting on it it's no longer it but um but there is does seem to be a movement is a thing but that's the I am Ms.

Sarketa says we try to grasp it with a concept it's not a boy no no we try to grasp it with a concept and we fail he says we're bound to fail because it's non-conceptual awareness yeah that's right awareness without an issue and it is it is not it it is the I am it's the sense of presence the sense of aliveness experience closer than your feet closer than your breath and your face it's here it's here and now it's not something that something to discuss or something to verify oh how do you experience oh how do you or what what about you and by the way I should have read it earlier there is a beautiful comment from Connor I swear every meeting Dean C says he has nothing to say and then drops the most incredible insight that was happy yeah yeah this is all nothing but that that nothing can be a really a diamond pearls of wisdom it is another good one and also there's no denying everything there's no rejecting anything there is nothing to reject there is no rejection everything is accepted or not even acceptance isn't there because it's it's there's a doing or a participation but nothing is not there whatever that is I remember something just in that discussion my recovery it's a bit funny but a Kerry Packer died on the polo field or something and he was brought back to life and I said what did he or someone said something about life after death or something he said he wasn't impressed there was nothing there I was going to say something but then Bob kind of said it I was just going back to the one thing I heard sorry I wasn't listening fully but awareness of awareness can awareness be aware of awareness well it's I'm just going to throw a curveball but awareness of awareness is just just a thought you know you know so you can only experience awareness of awareness of awareness but you can only imagine there's awareness of awareness or think there's awareness of awareness because as we have say that you know what we're talking about isn't even awareness or isn't even presence and so that is all there is so anything else is just an idea and these words presence and awareness are actually just pains in the ass because we end up you know thinking we've nailed it down with this word that seems pretty unlimited but words are limited as well no matter how unlimited the definition is they're still limited and and yeah they're pains in the ass so we just don't need them either yeah I don't like that word awareness either the trouble is that we use awareness of this is not of anything that's the mind to be aware of the picture to be to work to wear of the mirror you know mind is just reflecting consciousness it's it's it's that it's of us and that it's you do it is you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you do that you when we get into the mind because then we make a thing of it oh yes I was aware of it but before that you between thoughts you didn't need anything to to be happy you didn't need anything to be anything and it's who we are and it's the most supreme state because only with the rise of the mind that we get into all these problems and you know temporary states of happiness and sadness and everything else it's just the movement of the river that we start to measure things by but before that we're nothing and we're everything and it's just full and complete and it's beautiful no attributes just as it is exactly there's a code that says deep sleep is not absence of awareness it is awareness of absence which I don't know what's the difference you've got my vote thanks for nothing thank you Richard I have a comment here from Ram he says go to a park and observe expressions of consciousness a tree a bird a small child a dog a teenager an adult then notice the layers of illusion covering the same basic consciousness notice how that illusion is very simple almost non-existent existent in a tree a little more complex in a dog or a small child and far more intense in a full-grown adult that illusion is a sense of me which is most pronounced in an adult human but non-existent in a tree this is why we feel so much warmth toward little children and animals but fear and threat trepidation around adults but that's a fear or warmth actually has nothing to do with them but our concept about them and our concept about ourselves thank you Ram yeah so what Ram was saying was similar to the experience I was describing about yesterday we're experiencing concepts of those things in appearing in consciousness the dormants and then the concepts with the history and the memory and all that came sort of flooding back in yeah but I was just thinking of this consciousness and awareness discussion that we're having and it's really interesting because it's sort of simple and then I think in this discussion it's really good but it all moves away it actually it cannot figure out in any way shape or form consciousness and awareness but there's no way that the mind can grasp these ideas and the more we talk about it it's almost like we move away from the direct pointing of something that Bob's doing here so beautifully it's like just the simplicity of like keep seeing that there's no thing that sees yeah you know the more you talk and think about it the further away you wonder yeah because wonder from new yeah because sometimes I feel like stop talking and thinking and nothing you'll not know end of the story end of the discussion's over then no no go on then oh no no that's it I think Michael's been wanting to say something well you come the full circle which is perfect because that's where it started I mean all the way around yeah but um yeah what it brought to me like what you're saying Dean about that the stories and everything like in order to stay happily married every two or three or four years I have to go to places like Ikea and I was there yesterday and I'm really not a fan of Ikea because they keep you trapped I think it's something like three kilometers you have to go around you can't find your way out yeah I reckon there are still uh you know Japanese world war ii soldiers in there trying to find their way out but the um but yeah it was a bit different yesterday because we started at the cafe and I was at the cafe and exactly what you were saying Dean I was just sitting there and I was thinking this moment is never going to be repeated yeah this person walking and it's just so mundane and boring and then I'm like well maybe it's not yeah and then I'm like never ever going to be repeated this moment yeah and then I keep like uh for a while uh yeah I think it's also easy to be dismissive about these discussions because in some packages you know placed around there you know just something said a word anything just a combination of this environment can trigger a big letting go that was held on to so you know I think it's relative as to whether something is taking someone more into the mind or away from it yeah I mean I'd love to have something great to say but you know I don't really I mean that would make me feel really cool right you've done it congratulations life sometimes seems like a battleground and just getting back to trying that Julia was talking about um there's this in the midst of battle and last last week seemed like a battleground being married and um in the midst of battle this um guy said uh name i can cheat karamiti yukto manita tatbamuit he's speaking in sanskrit and a sort of translation is they were not even king chit whatsoever nothing i do or i do nothing whatsoever yukto manita tatbamuit yukto comes from yoked joined together so manita is uh tatbamuit seated in the self a wise man should think i do nothing whatsoever and there's pure being that's the awareness of awareness if you like that's beautiful you do nothing and yet everything is happening effortlessly the breathing is happening heartbeat's happening seeing's happening hearing experiencing is happening don't buy no one striving for things is happening learning new skills is happening spiritual bypassing is happening if anyone has a concept of that although jesus was saying you know seek ye the the kingdom first and once you find the kingdom you find that life is effortlessly doing everything and then life is doing bypassing well wonderful and then life is doing something else remembering the sleep or sleepless dream wonderful or life doesn't remember or remember wonderful but once you rooted in that kingdom in that realization!

that there is only that one life that does absolutely everything every conception and every perception every idea is just like lighting then what questions they come they come the life speaking to life in interacting with life you wanna not separate not divided no no it's just a dance it's lila it's a divine game playing hide and seek pretending that it's not clear and obvious creating stories Richard? I'm very impressed Ross that you have arguments in the stands for me Yogastar Kuru Kumani established in being act Yogastar Kuru Kumani established in being perform action that's Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita Yes And I like even when Tony simplifies it even further that it's just a movement from what you were saying from the high pressure to low pressure Yeah it's just a movement of energy from high pressure to low pressure Yeah And stories of survival don't even need to come into it Absolutely What is the story of survival?

I've never seen Yeah and even life It always seemed way too difficult to unpack you know why is everybody trotting around the story of survival? What's it even for? You know why are they doing it? Yeah it's basically it's just a simple explanation of the movement that's why it's not necessary If you can actually see the movement without that If it's simple enough for you then you don't need the story I once read a useful It was the beginning of like how the most base organism became an organism had a became got a boundary of skin around it to separate it from the next thing and so on And it's just like Yeah those were movements of the universe from one thing to another one you know set up to another which is a little more complex than high pressure to low pressure but um why does any of that need to be called survival or not survival?

What makes something a survived thing and a not survived thing? This this whole thing about oh this emotion helped you with your survival when you were young that just seemed like such a complex story I could never even get around to trying to unpack it to see if it actually even made sense you know or it was even applicable to anything So it's just always got left you know I'm not dissing it I'm not saying that it might not have a fairly you know useful fairly um close description to a reality than other descriptions of things It's not had value for others but it doesn't have for you Yeah it just seemed too flippin abstract Absolutely there is no dog or cat or wolf or giraffe who actually need a story of survival So that story is really just kind of dancing around the the hindu description of satchitananda So that preference for existence which kind of makes that boundary of skin and makes that movement from low to high pressure to somewhat preserve itself in the in the form of hurricane or fire or whatever kind of there is a sense of like even the the other hindu description like brahma, višnu and shiva those those forces they are just stories they're collective stories descriptions which intend to quieten the mind because if the mind comes up with the question why you're just telling that's how it is shut up that's it So if you don't need it you don't need it So the simplest level is just a story of attachment to a boundary So that yeah that's a nice yeah yeah I hadn't really come up with a nice simple description of the story for survival I like that one so but I mean it's still just you know fun this this words coming out I like this one it just was coming out and you know that's got fully understood here but um it doesn't mean that they don't happen like oh I'm uncomfortable this bag you know it doesn't happen just I Tony was thinking this because I'm a person doesn't happen yeah Space has never been corrupted by any of the pattern shapes and forms of the fear to disappear Yeah and whether you call it a movement or whether you call it consciousness or whether you call it life or whether you call it space or field of potentiality doesn't really matter and it's actually good to just really not get attached to any of the descriptions because none of it is the described they just work but yes some some people will have the tendency to resonate with the word god other people will have the tendency to resonate with the word space or the movement or whatever I like bob's non-void that's the that's the one that show does show up here non-void yeah it's not it's not nothing but it's now it could be easy to go on forever just thought I'd remind everyone tomorrow we'll be on zoom that's all lovely thank you very much thank you everyone thanks bob thanks thank you