Who you are you don't know. Sailor Bob, Kat and the group. 21 Jan 2024

Bergwood, Tony, James, Tess, David, Kevin, Navi, Tibor, Marty, Sarah-Rodja, Tash, Coral, Jim, Triss, Michael, Jack, Joseph, Jane, David, Sheila, Ross, Linda, Anita, Hing, Hayden, and Bob. Hi. Hi, Bob. Well, the same old, same old. We point to what they call non-duality. Non-duality meaning one without a second, not two. Only that. They call it Sat, Chidananda, Nama River. Five factors. The voice is not too good, is it? Sure. And, uh, everything is that. There is nothing, no thing separate and apart from that. So, we've got the idea we are these personal entities, these separate individuals. And recognizing what they're saying is so, if you investigate it, see, then you can only be that, because that is all there is.

And you know that, if you heard the great mantra, they say, I am that. And everything is that. Because that's the chair you're sitting in, that's the room, the carpet in the room, the trees, the flowers. And all that manifestation has names and forms. But it is all that and only that. And they call it, in some of the more traditions pointing out the truth, the truth of it all, they call it the basic space of phenomena. Pointing out that the base of everything is space. And what's the first thing any one of you see in this room? You'll say, I see the chair, I see the...

The very first thing, the thing closest to your eyeballs is space. And you realize that, look around you, that everything is in space. There's not anything at all that could be outside of space. And that's what they call it, the adornment of space. Just like the things in this room are adorning the room. So, all this manifestation, including you, me and everything else, are the adornment of space. So that means we are nothing but space in reality. Patting, shaping, forming, we take on the idea that we are these human shapes and forms. And that's belief in the human shape and form, me or I, is the sense of separation.

And of course, as soon as there comes separation and belief in two, there comes the division. Me and not me, good and bad. As Shakespeare tells you, nothing, either good or bad, but thinking makes us so. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad. All concepts are words we've learned. We pick up these words and take that division to be two different things. But it's still the same life essence that's expressing these concepts, these words, their thoughts. So it's the one essence expressing, patterning, shaping, forming and experiencing as everything. And the recognition that you are everything, and that everything is absolute, and you must be that absolute. And in the recognition of that, what can you say about yourself then?

Absolute, can you add anything to it? You can't. Can you take anything away from it? You can't. It wouldn't be absolute. Or in Buddhism, they call it the great perfection. Perfection is the same as the absolute. If it's perfect, can you add anything to it? Can you take anything away from it? They call it there, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Now, Sat Shittananda Nama Rupa, existence consciousness bliss, or being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone not being. No, you'll say, I am being. Of course you're being, and you know that. Can't get away from it. Anyone who's not knowing that being. No, you say, I know.

There's a knowing there of that being. Is there anyone who is unconscious? And you're going to get that all, say, no, I'm not unconscious, or I'm not unaware. So, every pattern, all these patterns, shapes and forms appearing as a human form are aware. So, there's awareness of being, as they say, awareness of being is the bliss. And the recognition of that, you realise that you are already that. Instead of getting this, believed to come realised, or liberated, or whatever terms or concepts they put on it, or become one. How can you become one with everything, when you already are the one? So, see the futility of these practices and meditations and the things that we're doing all the time.

Trying to get to what we already are. And what you are, is that non-conceptual, ever fresh, presence awareness. Negate it if you can. But all these thoughts, concepts and ideas, come up. What's a thought, a word? How many words were you born with? You realise you weren't born with any words. You didn't, so you can't say I was born even. Until you learnt words. And then people told, your parents told you you were little Johnny, or little Jean, or whatever your name might be. And then you laid on to that I thought that's there, give it something to fasten onto. So, I am little Johnny, or little Billy.

And so that idea of a separate entity, an individual, is being reinforced. And no one. But, is the word the thing? And you didn't pick up any words. Your first couple of years of your life, you were living without words. That's why you can't remember your birth. You were seeing, you were hearing, you were functioning well, but you didn't say Daddy or Mummy, I want this, I want that. Until you learnt words. You'd like the animals and birds, you'll gurgle, or laugh, or cry, or whatever. Let them know what was needed. But when you learnt the words, the capacity of reasoning developed as that little embryo grew, the little baby grew, and picked up these words as it grows along.

And in the growing of it, who or what was doing that? Just the same as in the birth of it. What were you doing about the birth? You say I was born. You can't remember your birth. But how did you come into existence? When you investigate and look at that, you'll see there was that animatic life essence in your father enabled in that pattern, a microscope of particle called a sperm to form through the livingness or the life that was going on. The breathing, the heart beating, and the eating food, and the dosing, and the growing, and replacing of cells, and all the rest of it.

The way the life was functioning formed a sperm. Now that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in your mother. In that life, it's pattern, shaping, and forming your mother. And your mother enabled that little, in that pattern, that little egg, pattern of energy called an egg or an ovum formed. That ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. So they weren't two just blobs of goo floating around. They was a fuse with life. Or intelligence energy. And when those two came together and mingled, you know, the life essence in them continued that pattern, shape, and form, and formed the little fetus, the little embryo, which is what you are today.

What were you doing about it then? You had no words. You didn't even have any body size the way you have it. But it's all formed. And has any of it ever been outside of space? It was all the concept of space. We think we are in space and seeing space. Now space, everything appears in that space. You can't postulate or think anything outside of it. But what shape or form has space got? Here it is. Here it is. You move it right now. Have a look and see if you can find a way, place anywhere at all where it starts. You can't even anticipate and imagine the time where it starts.

They talk about the big bang when the Earth started. What would the big bang be in? If there was anything there to explode or implode, it would have to be in something. So it must have been in the space. The same as everything else. So that's why everything is the content of space. Space has no centre, no circumference, no beginning, no end. No shape or form. You can't put any boundaries on it. But all these patterns, shapes and forms which are the content of space, patterns, shapes and forms, appears all adornments. And we take them to be real. And in taking them to be real, the problem is we lose sight of our true nature.

That it's the one intelligence and it is either one life, the one reality, the one God, if you like to call it that, that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing as everything. And in it, there is no division and no separation. So understanding or recognising that, who or that you are the absolute. What can you add to absolute? Nothing. And recognising that you are that absolute, can anybody be superior to you? Or anybody inferior to you? And would you want anything from anybody else? Would you want to take anything from anybody else? Would there be any need to give anything to anybody? Because it's all there in its patterning, shape and form.

And every part of it is in reality, space. But through that life, this is what it is. It's an intelligence energy, I call it. I don't use the term God because you can get confused with that term. We set up something better or superior or greater than what we are. Again, duality. And I tell you that a lot of the scriptures will tell us that God is all there is. That is all there is. It is only that. There is the one essence. If it's only that, then you must be, and you are that, then the godliness, if you like to call it, you are already so.

And you say, oh yeah, but I can't do this, I can't do that. No, of course you can't. You can't do anything while the belief is there that you are the separatity, the individual, the person. It is no thing because it's an appearance. It's what they call the phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. What is appearance? It's seemingly so. It just seems to be real, seems to be solid. But when you look into things, you can break them down, everything can be broken down. And this, looking here right now, it's daylight. It seems to be daylight. When you look at it and investigate it, you see what is it?

It is the Earth rolling around the sun. You realise there is a sun appearing in space and there is this Earth, a globe, which is rolling around in space, as well as stars, planets and everything else. And this side of that planet is daylight, where it's facing the sun. And on the other side it's dark, because it's facing away from the sun. Is there any such thing as daylight and dark? It's only because it appears in the sun. When it rolls around and faces away from the sun, this, what we're looking at here, will be dark. Does the Earth know anything about that darkness or light?

And does light itself know anything about darkness or light? It doesn't. In that darkness, other manifestations, stars and planets will appear, moon. And in the daylight, there's the sun that's rolling around, that's moving around the sky. All patterns, shapes and forms. And the space is no thing. And so the content of space is not something, is no thing also. It only appears to be so. Can something come from no thing? It can't. So whether you like it or not, realise that you are that no thing. Not zero, not nothing, a zero, zero, a nihilist or something. But no thing. You are not the pattern, shape and form that you appear to be.

But you are that life itself, that expression, that intelligent entity. Patterns, shapes and forms has the capacity of doing things. All the same goal doing of things is still, only appearance of pattern, shapes and forms in space. Because space is no thing. And you're a thing, I'm a thing. And the things we do are seeming things. Which we take to believe to be separate and individual. They call that basic space, awakened mind. There is an awareness of presence right here and there. You can't say what that awareness is. But you know for certain, you are not unaware. And you realise, if that awareness wasn't there, basically in life, I couldn't say I'm good or bad or pleasant, painful.

I couldn't even think. I wouldn't have any words, any concepts. I wouldn't be able to breathe. Heartbeat, air to grow. And all these things come about through that life energy that vibrates and expresses through different patterns, shapes and forms. That seems to be real. You go to sleep at night and you dream. In that dream you can be in all sorts of situations, all sorts of places, doing all sorts of activities and things. And it can be a bad dream. What do you do as a bad dream? You want to get out of it. And it can be a good dream. If it's a good dream you want to keep it, more of it.

But where does it all go when you wake up? You're glad to get out of the bad dream. But the good dream you want to keep there all the time. So you want to keep one and get rid of the other. So that's what happens. Something comes up and you like it. Not realising that the things we like are not going to stay forever. Just like daylight and darkness. The earth doesn't stay in the same place forever. It moves. It has the capacity of moving, vibrating. So the good things are not going to stay forever because thinking, living, being is transient. You mightn't realise that but look at it and investigate and see that this body that you're living right now, there's cells being replaced and cells are dying right now.

It's not the same body you walked into, the room with. Look back on it a few years ago and you know for certain it's not the same. But it's the same sense of presence saying I am that was saying I am then. But as I say the I am is just the word or the concept. So we don't want, we want the good things to say. Not realising that the transit going to change. We don't want it to change. What do you do? We resist it. Try and keep it there. We don't want the bad to come up so we try and force it out and keep the good things there.

But it doesn't happen. It changes in spite of all the trying from this personal point of view. The same with the bad, the good things. So in that resistance there is conflict. That means this believed in individual. It's a conceptual image that believes it real, doesn't want this, it's in conflict with it, it's fighting with it, trying to get rid of it. And that causes fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, unhappiness. All the psychological suffering. Uneasiness. Another word for uneasiness is disease. So there's resistance, conflict and disease going on. What happens the other way? Something comes up and you don't like it. Oh, I'm a sinner.

I'm a terrible person. I don't want to keep this. So again, what do I do? Resist it. Try to push it out. Again, resistance, conflict and disease. And that's where all our psychological problem goes on. And the dream disappears. It's not there any longer. All the places you were in, the things you were doing is gone. But you don't realize you wake to this dream. Because this dream doesn't disappear when you wake up in the morning. It starts off from where it left off. And where it starts off from, that's not forgotten. That's still believed to be real and seemingly real and is real. But the dream, everything in the dream has disappeared.

And it gives you an indication of what you really are. This life comes up, it comes into being, plays around for a while and eventually it'll disappear back into the space again. But in the meantime, because the belief in their separatism is there, there's lots of fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, jealousy, envy, wars, everything going on, hate for your fellow man or individual because they think they've got something you haven't. They think they're superior or inferior to you. All this psychological suffering comes about because of this belief that I am this person. Where does the word person come from? Persona, the mask. A Latin word that they learnt years ago.

Past meaning we've got this conceptual image. A mask. A conceptual mask of thoughts, words. And they've taken it to be real. As this body, mind, entity. And it's only me that can be unhappy. It's only me that can be fearful. It's only me that can be jealous or envy. Me is the cause of all that psychological suffering. And they are the effects of the cause. The anger, the fear, the unhappiness, the depression. Doesn't that upset the body, this pattern, shape and form through which it's expressing through? Causes the heart to beat faster, the temperature to rise, the blood to come up, the rage and anxiety and stress and all.

All this is caused by the belief in some concept. And it doesn't have to be that way. They call it the great perfectionist, non-conceptual awareness. And when you look at that, without the word, ask yourself a simple question. What is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Or what can you say without a thought? There's a gap there in this moment, just a small gap. You realise you can't say it's good. You can't say it's bad, pleasant, painful or anything. You can't say anything at all about it. But the breathing, the heart beating, hair and the fingernail, food being digested. The livingness hasn't stopped.

The beingness hasn't stopped. The patterning, shaping and forming is still expressing these patterns which are appearing as things but which in reality are no thing. Just a space like... Look out there in nature and see how that goes. You go down to the ocean. In the ocean the water appears to be blue. When you investigate and look at it, you see the water's not blue. Go back and look at a clear sky. There's seemingly a blue canopy over the space. In the say a blue sky. It would go up in the plain. 30 or 40 thousand. See if you can get into the blueness there.

In this space in this room. If space is blue, this would be a blue room. But it's not. So when you see the space in the... The snake in the rope. Well the people see it. Think there's a snake in the rope. When they go outside and stand on a wet piece of rope in the dark, not knowing what it is, they immediately imagine and anticipate. It's a serpent and they've been bit by the serpent. The fear and the trembling and everything starts. Somebody comes out and shines a torch on it. There's nothing there. So what happens to all that fear and the person disappears?

It's not fixated anymore. And don't you see? The same thing applies here. If you resonate that you're not this person, you're not this separate entity, and see that you are the true nature, it's all a fiction. Where's all that fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, remorse, shame going to attach to her? There's nowhere to fixate on. Just like there's a great sense of relief when the person realises, ah, it's only a piece of wet rope shit. Don't even consider it. But it takes a while for the fear and the trembling to settle down, because it's been interrupted. It's been interrupted. The same here. When you realise and recognise and understand your true nature, you're not bound into this crap anymore.

It doesn't mean to say the thoughts won't come up, the fear and all these things, emotions will come up, but then not fixate on them. Like it might be a movement of anger might get you out of a certain bad situation. But it won't be carried on to the way it is as we do, and cause all sorts of strife and continue with that fear. It'll come up and disappear. And in its place what's there? Without those thoughts, you can't say it's good or bad, there's a sense of being well. You can't say it's right, wrong, good, bad, but you can say there's nothing wrong anymore.

No thing that's interrupting this stretch of presence awareness that is right or wrong. It just is. And then that sense of being well, there is a sense of joyousness, a sense of whatever you call it, absoluteness, well-being. Way Way Way told you, why are you unhappy? You point out because everything you say, everything you think, and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. And you look at the answer and it takes your seat. They all point to that. It's the one essence appearing as everything. But we put this term, God on it. It tells you in the big Bible, in the beginning was the Word.

And the Word was with God. The Word was God. That's all we've done. We put the label, God on it. All things were made by Him, by the Word. So you see that life essence is forming, patterning, shaping this Word, which you can call God if you like. But don't separate up as a separate, in a separate nature of something better than you and higher than you. You've got to try to become one with it. Because you'll be trying for a hell of a long time. Because you can't become one when you are already that one. It makes it much easier. That's what they say in a lot of scriptures.

Start from the fact of your own being. Because if you look at the word becoming, it implies a future time. And when you look at the word time, and investigate time, time is past, present and future. And they'll tell you that time is a mental concept. Investigate and see for yourself. Is there a past if I don't think about it? To do that, you've got to settle in a little gap between thoughts for a moment. Without a thought, there's nothing there but a clear and fresh space like awareness. Can't say the space is not there. The things appearing in it are still the content of space.

So there can be nothing other than that. Nothing wrong if I don't think about it. And where does thought arrive from? Well, as I say, thought is a vibration, a movement of energy. And the Sussacadatta puts it, he says, nothing can trouble you excepting your own imagination. Imagination, we use that word a lot. And you know what imagination is. Imaging in. Creating mental or conceptual images. And that's what the so-called mind, which is the believed in conceptual image, is imaging in all these concepts and words and things. And that's our problem. If you see that awakened mind, the pierced space like awareness, leaving it rest in its singularity as it is.

And knowing the truth, because that's what it says. Know the truth. You know that you are. What you are, you don't know. You conceptualize what you are. Without conceptualizing, just be that knowing, which you can't negate. Be that being. Stop being, if you can. You call yourself a human being. So you've got this so-called human form, which you think is being. And I am that human form being. And call God the supreme being. There's another form we call God. This is greater of a being than I am. It's different from me. It's higher than me. I've got to become God-like. But they're both pure being.

Take out the word supreme, the label which we've learned. Take out the word God, another label which we've learned. Try and separate the actuality, the reality of you. Anyone stop being. Anyone not being. Nobody's negating it. So innately you know it. That knowing, recognize and work from that point of view. And we still drop back into thoughts initially. Because these people come here and I saw it. I saw it clearly. But I lost it. Who saw it? The conceptual entity. The imagined self. Who could lose it? The separate entity. The imaginal self. But what was seen, what was recognized, what was cognized, the emptiness. Those thoughts and separation appear in that.

The thoughts appear in it. It doesn't appear in the thoughts. So that's what we need to look at and remember. And recognize, recognize. Because it's only me that can be fearful. Me that can be anxious. Me that can be full of self-pattie or resentful. All those me thoughts. Fear, anger, depression, guilt, anxiety, stress, jealousy, envy. What a suffering. Happening to me. Now we realize that they are the effects of relating to me. Relationship, relativity is dualism. Me and the other. So me is the cause. Of all my fears, anxiety, stress, guilt. And the fears, the anxieties, the stress, the effects of the cause. And what do they tell you when you look in the scriptures?

Cause and effect. They say it's karma. And you've got to work on your karma. Work it out and do something about your karma. All you need to be worked on is to recognize the cause is a fiction. And if you see that the cause is a fiction, just ask yourself the simple question. Can there be an effect if I'm not relating to a cause? Well, can there be? There can't possibly be any cause if it's not related to a cause. So where does that leave me? Well, I can tell you where I am at. I'm present and aware right in this moment. Is the presence awareness.

And as time is a mental concept, instead of moving along with the concepts, ideas and images, remain as it is, present and aware. Until the stabilization comes. The recognizing is simple. Coming straight away. But it's stabilized over a period of time because these concepts we've taken on will keep cropping up for a while. But after the recognition of them and the stabilization of them, they won't bother you. You'll know the truth, as I say, and the truth will set you free. You are the great reality. You are that and that is all there is. And thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Michelle.

Yeah. And I'm in a lot of people. And I know the last one, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. welcome again and everyone who is online with us and who will watch later I'm Kat Bob's partner and I'm bringing in the online content and we have a lot of welcome messages we have a comment from Jeff no conflict division when we are space for each other space yeah and happy days to all from teachers and lots of good morning so this is it really for the online contribution so we invite you now to contribute from here any questions any comments anything that comes up anything that moved you perhaps from Bob's spiel what you heard what resonated or what didn't I'll highlight then what Bob was just saying what you are you don't know and I often come across people who try to find themselves define themselves they believe that oh I'm the only one who don't know who I am everybody else knows who they are well they have concepts but the conceptual knowledge is a limitation because whatever concept you may have about yourself it will be some form of description some form of limitation but the honest truth is whatever you describe whatever appears in consciousness is not the subjectivity is not what you are what you are you can't know you may want to have a concept because it kind of what is it kind of medicates the fear but how about being present and being completely at peace with that simple fact that you know for certain that you are and you have no clue what you are apart from the concepts that are ever-changing you have different concepts when you were a child you had different concepts yesterday you have a good concept when on a nice sunny day when you fit and strong you have a negative concept when you are angry or hungry or weak those concepts are completely unreliable and those are appearance in consciousness but who they appear to what they appear to that's a mystery and finding a place when you are at peace with that mystery that beyond any doubt you know that you exist without any concept you know that you exist you know there is a consciousness present but what or who is a story and giving your heart and prioritizing the truth over the story is finding home it's finding peace and it's joy is subtle joy in it when there is no anxiety to find out to get somewhere to define one's oneself and as Bob says when it's really when the heart really abides in that when it's stable there is no flashing following attention following concepts coming home attention following concept coming home then that even the maturation of that deepening stabilization of that simple recognition of a mystery of being which is never hidden never far away it flourishes in a subtle bliss and of course the promises of eternal bliss is just a sales speech for the enlightenment look for pleasure look for eternal love and union and whatever that kind of appeals to the seeking mind which is designed to always avoid pain and seek pleasure but this is the initial level where the seeking starts I want pleasure for me I want enlightenment for me but the more you are exposed to that message the more is a the more is a resonation with that message the less of that very superficial childish uh mind sort of desire for eternal pleasure is attended to and more of that deep longing for being at peace with the mystery and unknowability of existence of existence takes place and it is a simple recognition it is here now never hidden no one who can deny it or argue with it and even denial or arguing with it is is just an appearance on that screen of consciousness Jack did you want to say something?

no? no? I will say something? I don't know there is much point because I think I know the answer but I will say it anyway you can just say it, I know it we are an okay we are of a good one you are you have a good one you have a good one you have a good one you have a good one you have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one I have a good one it's I have I mean I I recognize that it's not real I recognize that it's so it's occurring to something in something and it just is but it's so compelling it so it just sucked me in I can have done ridiculous hours and have it like this fear that's under I've been recognized the fear that's driving it but it's gone on for three days so that's stabilizing just tips on stabilizing and so even now asking the question I kind of know the answers but Bob you know did you know how can you really just keep remembering I mean tips the can you stop that mind attack but you just have to say well it's not me and just let it happen you don't have to stop it but you see if it's non dual and it's only a space like awareness it's all equal so what's coming was mine it's causing the opposite see that as equal to you got a coin got heads and tails on you look at the head and look at the tail so you think it's two it's still the one thing so that's it couldn't be one without the other but when those thoughts come up I leave them there and then I don't believe them and realize if that awareness wasn't there you're aware of those thoughts going on I don't know how would you be able to say I'm in the head I'm in the head I'm in the head go on I'm settled back into that awareness watch it instead of focusing in the thoughts fighting with them trying to get rhythm go on those thoughts drive frantic action as well like sixteen seventeen eighteen hour days like trying to try and I recognize it comes from a fear that's driving it but then do you do the action or should you say forget it just get out drop it go watch it watch watch it and recognize you know if there's a natural response but when you react to it that's when you get caught up there will be a natural spontaneous response to all activities just the same as you take the next breath but when it comes up there's something that's something you don't like you don't like it and you react to it well you're in the problem again if there was a natural response it might have been recognized it still might stir up something but free life life goes on and continues to function and you're in the same way doesn't come as I say near neither way dwelling place goes on and the activities go on but it doesn't touch you there's a place there's a space in you which is okay even with mind being dysregulated frantic and attacked and actions being erratic and crazy this is what is happening if there is no judgment that this is good or bad or should or shouldn't happen this way that's fascinating like I can see my mind occasionally coming up with nonsense and there is still like a backseat sort of a fascination like wow where is this one coming from little old memory or little old behavior and amazing because that body mind machine is not who I am but it is already programmed to behave in certain ways yeah Bob in the bible there is a saying be transformed by the renewing of your mind how would you renew your mind remind yourself all the time that it's equal it's not two even though it's appearing terrible or horrible or whatever just remind yourself it's equal it's only the one without a second the sting of the belief that it's good bad that goes out of it that's a funny thing because I even recognize within it all I recognize I'd rather have this than nothing and the alternative is nothing I even have that thought and still it goes on but thank you but nothing is the everything and the everything is the nothing equal and as Bob said before and we have to wait for the mic and I think there's three people I think there's so yeah Marty and then Peter you have to wait in your room how are we doing?

yeah yeah yeah good to see everyone again I was just gonna tell a little story about a meeting I had with Bob not long ago with a friend and I was sitting on the couch listening to Bob talk to my friend because I've obviously gone to see Bob a fair amount I'm pretty happy with what is and I had a question that I was coming up but I didn't want to ask it in front of my friend and anyway Bob ended up answering it without me asking the question and actually is the same so it relates to the same question that's being asked now and that's so I still go out and drink with my friends I still do lots of sh you know what I used to think would be shit things and they still happen they haven't changed I thought you know now that I know that they would all change I would become vegetarian now you know I would be vegetarian I wouldn't be drinking more than four pints on a Saturday you know cause Bob's you know he's been sober now so surely there must be some kind of change that happens in my life that's that is some kind of straight and narrow path and uh and then Bob basically answered that with uh there's no no resistance to what is what is is exactly how it should be and it's just a thought that thinks oh it should be this way and then that creates the resistance which creates the conflict you know which creates the disease that he talks about which creates the duality and then I was I just accepted it and he said you know have you if you if there's a thought that is resisting what is and you're going to keep that thought around and it's going to keep keep coming back and back instead of accepting how the way things are and then noticing and allowing there to be a new experience a different thought a different you know whatever it ends up being um you know and that I feel like answers that question I think I'm going to be a different thought yeah well all our lives are different and our lives and thoughts are different and there's no right or wrong thought that should appear but if you think there's a right or wrong thought that should appear then you're not accepting what is and then you're keeping that around and you're just keeping the duality yeah is the mind the bogey man that's the thing to realize then like to have a look at the point of resistance but um where is the point of resistance that's a key thing i think we're talking about that on the way in like if you want to resolve a problem what what where is that point of resistance what am i resisting because everything is that as bob quite rightly pointed out in various ways he's told us all the time that everything is that but so any any um what is the point of resistance well the point of resistance has to be my mind the mind i think the mind is a bogey man that's the bottom line isn't there's something wrong with your mind you have to get rid of it so maybe if we stop resisting what would happen what would happen yeah we disappear so yeah one other thing i wanted to say there um bear with me it's just yeah just if we examine what the mind is it's a um it's a tool for identifying ourselves separate from everything else isn't it that's what we do yeah yeah so mostly that's what individuals here are is the separation apparatus you know we're thinking all the time of a way in which we can react to something if somebody takes a hard if i take a hard position on anything at all half the people in this room might think well you're wrong right what's that process and uh half might agree half might say i'm wrong you're so what is it that that is the process of identifying who i am here in time and space is that wrong no no no it's not wrong it's just what we do that's what humans do that doesn't make any difference to anything does it in the end of the day you know i've set it up jane um bob so rightly said that you know when when there's a there's a catching up you know when we get caught up it takes a while for the for the for the body to get over it and it reminded me of the elements where the elements you know um after a big storm you know after there's thunder and lightning after there's you know shit loads of rain you know um takes a while for things to settle you know but it's not that there's any you it's not that there's any other it's just you know it's not always sunny it's not always raining it's not always thunder and lightning you know um and it's just the getting caught up in um the separation the duality you know so what i love more than anything that bob says is leave it unaltered unaltered unmodified uncorrected yeah beautiful uh we i have couple of oh anita and then i have a couple of interesting questions from the online i just want to what was what was obvious there is that um constant change with or without chatter mind uh commentary constant change absolutely yeah great point okay so we have 20 few people with us and sally question for bob hi bob does the maturation of the realization still occur for you and if so can you talk about that can you feel the deepening of of maturation you know in a way well if i felt it there'd be somebody feeling it yeah yeah you were talking about stabilization yeah well it stabilizes itself yeah as jane was saying it settles down after the storm thing is that naturally naturally if you if you run around the block you know you puff for a while what happens yeah don't keep doing it it'll settle down yes so is the answer to question does the maturation or stabilization still occur for you is the answer yes or no it still is yeah okay so laura says mind attacks are compelling all right difficult and bill you know that you are not in the mind it is a habit though and so it might keep twirling around like a merry-go-round for a while but the you that sees what the mind is doing is changeless conscious light you are losing interest in the mind as the place to be because you don't exist there and laura says that's beautiful and laura says thank you for rising the mind attack question and corina i am clear about the true nature what there is unsurety about is that others are not just illusions in the consciousness from this perspective essentially solipsism so that's unresolvable isn't it it's a theoretical or philosophical approach saying that everyone else is just imagined or is appearing in my dream how can you ever verify that you can't it is a very subjective position so it is a question do i believe it or i don't believe it question the i who wants to believe or not believe in solipsism because being unresolvable and belonging to the realm of mind how is it even how is it even any concern of of of the life essence but it is a good question it's just that contemplation will take you more and we have giotti unless you want to add something to it no just as i know what that bill is talking about the year yeah yeah the one that is unsure that's why the ram jumped over the cliff when he heard the beatles thing there'll never be another year yeah oh who wants to know is another way of putting it and giotti says giotti says just wondering how do new inventions occur to solve a problem if there is acceptance of what is i hope this makes sense yes i totally get what you're saying what a wonderful new inventions come from love and satisfaction and the creativity for bringing out beautiful things rather than perceiving problem i mean innovation is not necessarily labeling something as problem and rejecting it and fighting it innovation also comes from the room for improvement but if the narrative is tend to perceive defects or problems that's not a problem that's another way the creative life essence appears complaints the mind does complain that's what it does and i'll tell you this is the the greatest source of laughter in our marriage the complaining mind whenever the complaint comes it does nothing else but make us burst out laughing but that very complaint could be an invitation for the innovation of problem solving but thank you for your question this is a good question and now laura says classic bob ism there will never be another eve eve i was just thinking about the image and you know how bob says um talks about imagine and breaks it down into image and i was just the thought came to mind um you know what's the difference between an imagination and the real and the real imagination is a word image like um bob says it's an image uh martin which is what people call me is a word is an image so what's the difference between a thought and imagination sorry and what's real is real is a thought as well so what is real is not an image or an imagination or a thought and you can't say anything about it but it can't be unnoticed or can't go unseen it's like yeah like the image in the mirror you can't say it's there try and grab it out of the mirror you can't say it's not there yeah same with this manifestation yeah and yeah that's the difference between what's real and an image yeah it's um i just um occurred to me a dear friend asked me yesterday um that oh she said that she was she was looking forward to a life without any conflict whatsoever and um um and i said um i said that's an unrealistic ideal um i said the nature of the mind you know works in the pairs of opposites and you know uh the minute uh the me or the other takes a position um there's often conflict and sometimes when it when it's just in conflict with itself it's the nature of the mind you know so um i just think you know we get caught in the trap of thinking that we're going to be a tra-la-la-ring through life when we understand non-duality um i'm sorry to disappoint you uh but shit happens yeah that's that's a great point although there is a great point yes like if you look at the natural world you look at the wild creatures the animals they have to survive every night they don't have comfortable houses with air conditioning and heating and life is tough life is much more tough for the for the wildlife than it is for us they don't have fridge full of food they have to hunt for every bit of uh breakfast or dinner and one could say okay that's the natural state and our natural state is it's more less you know comfortable one could say so the only conflict comes from the narrative but there is a possibility and this is i think a good answer to sally's question you know sally was asking whether there is a deepening or there is a stabilization how was how was let's say your relation with conflict 40 years ago or 20 years ago or 10 years ago and how it is today so you can tell that the the less habitual engagement with the narrative that is always objecting and always complaining the more smoothly those challenges are being met whether there is a body aging and and sicknesses creeping or the financial challenges or relationship challenges is a it's a different way of responding when that habit of engaging with every thought every comment is broken or is weakened and as um and they just said when you shine the light on so you said something about shining the light of awareness on stuff that comes up you know that becomes more attractive uh than engaging in the narrative so you know if you had to call it something you could say yes there's a deepening and it's also a maturation if you like of getting over things uh i've noticed it used to take me weeks to get over things you know when i first came to this stuff now i'm over it very quickly and that doesn't mean to say i don't care or i don't love people or you know um it doesn't affect affect this apparatus but there is a there is a rolling with it if you like that happens and they're letting go and leaving things unaltered unmodified uncorrected which becomes which becomes a lot more uh if you had to name it in a time frame a lot quicker yeah i find that over time my hard positions have become soft positions or malleable positions more and more in that way i'm letting more the possibility of laughing come in like if i have a hard position i can't laugh you know at myself which is crucial joseph did you want to say something bob after yeah it's quite interesting because uh i had this other conflict yesterday and then um i was kind of remember what peter was saying and then it's actually interesting it happens what happens like this is actually real like action happens and people do this whatever they're doing and then the conflict is when you start having a position in it but if you watch it as a movie or you're actually watching a movie and the same story happens in the movie but you're not in the movie you're just watching it so there's no me then there then you would just watch it as a movie and have no positioning and there's no conflict because you have no you're not in anyone's party what's happening it kind of fun it interesting i was just listening so much here and then i didn't know what to say and everything and then i was just basically feeling not too much in my thoughts and relating to it i was more listening and then of course the conflict stuff what happened let's say yesterday always comes up a little bit like not that i i'm still in conflict but i'm like looking at it and i'm just thinking oh that's interesting you're accepting accepting basically what you're saying accepting um reality and then have and then not have a position in it because it doesn't matter basically what you say what you think because it just happens anyway so i was just basically tapping all this information to my thing and then i thought oh yeah it's actually watching like a movie and then actually the key is like to get out of that me and and basically watch it as a movie it's just basically being the uh observer yeah that's how i there's no choice not to accept it but do you want to take a second i was saying it's funny because it's like there's no choice not to accept it so you might as well just join the bandwagon and you know go along with it because you can't do anything other than that anyway so it's like um once you see that it's like well there's no point of having a thought that's gonna be in conflict with it because that's just going to create resistance and resistance to what's happening so i might as well you know just relax and allow it to happen because it's been doing that the whole time anyway um yeah which is exactly what you said yeah bob did you want to say something else huh just to expand on the question of deepening that just um bob do you ever have is it ever a sense of a self or a narrative of a self that arises for you like a separate self well i can't say it's separate anymore used to be all the time i wonder when we get talking about the narrative what does shakespeare say a tale told by an idiot that's the narrative yeah the narrative is like a commentary it's a software it's like you have you can program your siri or alexa or whatever to actually read the subtitles or you can have text to speech sort of tools the narrative is basically a piece of software so the narrative doesn't prove an existence of separate self at all whether it is there or it is not there doesn't really matter the belief in narrative causes suffering and a lack of belief in suffering causes making it hilarious things don't stop appearing they'll still appear but they're empty what's it tell you anything and zing me emptiness here emptiness there but the infinite universe stands ever before your eyes you're still saying but no difference the boundaries and conditions are taken away it's not not separated and divided anymore thank you okay and laura says i can't help but have conflict when i see a dog neglected that's a beautiful way of love expressing and would you rather have that dream character being heartless zombie so you might actually enjoy that sense of resistance that sense of love response and and as a space as a space you are not touched but the dream character is and you might even experience a subtle joy of that dream character having that sensitivity and vulnerability remembering that this is not essentially who you are this is just a vehicle of expression but that's a good example and peter you want to say bob you want to say something yeah it's just fascinating isn't it that we we as humans are constantly trying to identify ourselves here through conflict through resistance the only way we can do it more resistant we are to something more defined we are that's what we do that's simply what we do oh bang that's that's the realization somehow that hits us i think isn't it that this is all right everything's all right everything's that everything's that even the resistance there's nothing to do in that so would we want it the question is would you really want it to be the way that we're constantly trying to make it something into something yeah we're constantly trying aren't we to to make something hard which is really really very soft and relatable and change already changed anyway it's already gone past it's already been gone uh yosef yeah it's interesting because it's what you're saying and then it's like um an image or of identity and then i and someone said something uh uh like a child said to me a friend of mine child said to me oh you're worker and then they say you see you as a worker because i'm doing a lot of things and then i i thought oh oh what's this means um worker like i thought it's just activity happening and then i was asking my girlfriend like what worker means and then it's like what yeah you're like a worker so what does it mean and then the and then so yeah you're getting done and then i thought oh this is a good image like it's a good identity i like it and then i got more motivated to do more but it's actually then also that wrong image and then you identify with it and then i'm in conflict because like yeah but i don't catch up with people because i'm always getting things done and and then all the conflict started again and yeah because you only have 24 hours and a day so if you get more done you don't do other things so i actually had that feeling it gets me it gets a good feeling and then you all want to do more because that feeling is there and that image and that the identity with it and so that i got confused because i thought oh that's a great thing i felt amazing that thought but then it's create another conflict somewhere else as you as you identify you with the me so i was like i saw that both like it was sort of a pleasure to identify with that as well like as in a positive feeling rather than a negative so then i thought oh that's good but then another another moment it's just the conflict which is just in the opposite again yeah that's what came up that's beautiful what you say joseph because that's really uh bringing that quality attention to the functioning of the device you can see how the mind functions bob often give it as a inspiration for people watch the mind see how mechanical it is see how it you know associates how it divides into good and bad pleasant and painful happy and sad how it gives meaning positive or negative how it relates to oneself this is relevant this is irrelevant once you see that instrument how it actually operates where are you looking from that that that is seeing the machine in and its function from that point of clarity and then how can you ever fall for it again if you see the magician the trick of the magician you can see how the identification come about how that very very convincing voice which says i breaks like suck up all the attention and suddenly this is i no it isn't it's still the machinery functioning doing its best and it's a wonderful machinery like they say it's a fantastic servant beautiful advisor especially if you see that everything it comes with is really for the survival of the body it's really for your good it's really an expression of love for the self whatever the self is imagined to be to be but yeah identification with that with that narration that's the suffering that's the problem but getting to know it is so amazing it's just so incredible and now whether it has negative narrative or whether it has painful meaning or whether it has hopelessness or whether it has shame doesn't really matter what it exhibits you see a wonder incredible incredible wonder it's so complex it it really envelops the whole appearance it really is the whole universe is the microverse verse in the you know the way the mind functions is the way the universe functions because that's the projector that's how it you can you can have a glimpse of eternity in just just seeing the wonder rather than associating itself that this is me this is i this is who i am and i have to defend myself and i have to justify myself and i have to make myself right and others wrong and you can see it this is really great to hear yeah and i it just struck me as um everything that's being said here that's continually said is just uh affirming what's actually happening like it struck me what bob said about keeping you know everything is equal well that seems like a bit of a conundrum to the mind you know how do we keep everything equal but in fact that's actually what's happening because everything comes and goes and passes and uh in in a way that's what we're all trying to sort out and understand and by coming to that sense of equalness or oneness could be another word for it and these discussions almost just tease all that out to see that well that's actually what's going on anyway despite our concepts of good bad and everything in between and coming here i find that that just listening and participating actually unravels everything is unraveled of its own and to see that fact the fact of what we're all talking about and having insights into comes to fruition or is just shown and um understood or or revealed of its own it's quite beautiful i have a question but in the guise of a statement so this is the fourth time i've been here and every time i come here i actually feel like someone drugs me on the way through and the longer i'm here the more like this is serious like the more i just feel like oh shut up and just it's just like so blissful i actually want to fall asleep and i leave here and i go wow this is amazing but so my question sort of in a statement is when the thoughts come back when the monkey chatter comes back it's like as if it anchors in a presence of maybe the me self i'm not sure the words i don't know what i'm trying to say i'm just trying to say that i feel really blissful when i don't think and don't talk and feel like i could just fall asleep into eternity and don't care i actually don't care but then when the thoughts come back it's like oh i sit up and take notice it anchors you in as a human being as a functioning being i think so my question is what actually is that what's going on and thanks for the drugs so what's going on you want to answer the question settle down into it as cat was saying you know when the thing ties down behind it all is that incredible wonder relax into that never mind the thoughts thoughts will come and go and do what they do and their body will act on it if necessary or whatever but you know you already know and i think that's what i'm talking about um i thought i'd have my 10 bobs with one of the things that i love about this uh this environment is that you hear so many expressions of the same thing um and uh i'm i i suppose what i'm really doing and he's commenting on this this mind that goes on and you know it's just um maybe i have different perceptions to other people but i see i see this as like systems within systems within systems as there's the systems of cells the systems of um minds and bodies the systems of cultures the systems of uh you know humanity they have uh civilization and so on and this is this is a tiny little system and how can i possibly how can i possibly understand what's going on even our best computers can't do that and how can i possibly understand what's going on even our best computers can't do that so this is sort of an equanimity and letting go of all that and i don't know whether that's useful for anybody but that's just the way i said thank you there's also the um who wants to know what's going on um um uh something that i read from nizigada um has been popping up a lot lately which is um um have a look at what you are what you are not and then what you are will be what's left what's left so then and then he said you've been focusing too much on what you are not and missing what you are and he said put your attention on what you are not and and spend time there or time you know relax and relax there yeah and he says what you are you already are that's what he said and he says what you are not is to be discarded so discarding the body the mind the thoughts the everything that's passing phenomena is to be discarded and i have a couple of comments from our online community ram answering to laura missar gadata told jean dunn the consciousness in you is the same as the consciousness in that donkey across the road and she got offended and wanted to leave but that is actually pretty obvious and the source of that compassion we feel for that suffering dog and laura answered to it ram that feels so correct my heart is breaking as i know the dog's heart is breaking yeah beautiful and we do actually want to acknowledge that subtle preference for life and for love because you know the the preference for let's say for silence over thoughts it is a subtle sense of of of self having a preference there or it may be just arising preference but that preference causes suffering but we all ask a being as a love of being and as a projector of that love of being we have also a preference for joy over suffering and if that completeness that sense of completeness is in here that is likely to be projected outside so we wish that love of being and that joy of being to be realized in everything that we project including the suffering dog so it is still a preference arising but that preference is just what is arising it arises in a space of love of being that you are and it doesn't cause suffering and it doesn't cause suffering so you say my silence sings my emptiness is full yeah so even preference for silence over thoughts is just what's arising my all-time favorite nisigadatta quote is nothing is by you or for you you are the light alone that's beautiful no no no no no no no no no no no no no the self, the space, can't do a thing.

The mind does its job just like the heart does its job. Just like the sweating or lymph does its job. The question is, can I leave it be? Do I have any other option? And just relaxing out of the identification as that mind and seeing how it does its job. And then if the judgment comes up, no, those thoughts are good or bad, well, relax even further and see that this is not you judging it. This is just a rising thought, another thought, another thought. And that brings us to the conclusion. Yes, darling, last word. Nobody's ever spoken a word in here today. No, it's so true.

Could have fooled me. Could have fooled me. Thank you. Thank you so much, Bob. Thank you, Kat. Thank you. Thanks, everyone as well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.