Bob, Kat and Dean - nonduality group meeting 24 Dec 2023

And on we go. Okay, so good morning everyone. We have different setting today. We have a famous COVID setting, COVID background. We are okay, we are pretty good, but Bob tested positive, so we have few people sitting outside and listening online. And apart from that, we're just gonna do it from home. Starting from wishing everyone Merry Christmas. We got honoured with this beautiful garland, which Bob refused to wear because he doesn't want to look like someone to be worshipped. It's okay. So I'm gonna hand it over to him now. And you give us a spiel. Are you gonna start, Bob? Hi everyone. Everyone and no one.

Well, it's all about the same thing. Non-duality. And the so-called non-duality. The so-called virus we're supposed to have, that's non-duality. Just as things are. Everything is as it is. We'll look into it. And Kat and Dane are here. They can get into it too, also. And then we might have to look closely into some of the things we point about, which are not normally seen. As they say, it's right before our very eyes, but hardly ever noticed. Closer than your breathing. Nearer than your hands and feet. It is that absolute, ever-fresh presence awareness. What they call the basic space of phenomena. Here it is. The base.

The base is space. Anyone ever away from space. Is there ever anything that is outside of space? When you really look into it, we don't notice it, do we? But everything is the content of that space. The trees, the flowers, the birds, the insects. You, me, the planets, the stars, the oceans. Everything is the content of space. Space is no thing. Because it hasn't got a centre to it. You can't find a beginning to it. You can't grasp it with a concept or a mind. There it is in front of you right now. Go and grab it. It's all around you. Closer than your breathing, as I say.

Nearer than your hands and feet. So you can't miss it. Yet we don't notice it. Every pattern, shape and form in this manifestation. It's a phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to me. It is appearing, or seemingly so. And appearance is not a phenomenon. It is not how it is. The cat here sitting in front of me right now. It's moving its head, waving its tail around. All those activities. Loving it. The things, smelling things. But like you and I and everything else, it is the content of space. No thing. Can something come from no thing? And when I say things, every pattern, shape and form is a thing.

You're a thing. I'm a thing. The cat's a thing. The tree's a thing. The flower's a thing. All things would be taken on the words or the names and put, labelled all these space-like things appearing in awareness. There is an awareness of these things. Awareness is knowing. Loving to be. Nobody is unaware right now. That's something we don't take any notice of either. We've always, oh, I wasn't aware. You were aware, but your mind might have been fixated on something else and you're missing out on what was before your very eyes. And that's what needs to be recognised and realised. That that is all there is.

And the appearance, pattern, shape and forms are not the actuality. Everything, every so-called thing is a vibrating pattern of energy. This body, this mind. And we've taken it to be different when we learn language. My body, my mind, my voice, my feelings. Who is the me or the mind is cloning it? Is it anything other than the thought? Where does the thought come from? The basic thought that we learn is that sense of presence expressing through the mind, is it? Thought, I am. I am. It's a spontaneous movement. And they say, whether it's true or not, I don't know. It came from the proverbial sound, om.

I am. And as that primary sound, it is reverberating and making it as life. But we're not satisfied with that. We put other words. I am this body. I am this person. I am this or that thing or something else. And where did all these words come from? Spoken from the voice. It's coming through this pattern we call the body. But am I, am I this body? Am I this mind? I am is the word. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. All things were made by him. By the word. Not telling by some big daddy or some pattern, shape and form and the sky, but the word.

Isn't that so? All the things, in this manifestation, have got labels on the words. There was nothing made, that was made, without, without the word. So there are words, labels, concepts, ideas, on every pattern, shape and form in this manifestation. And how many words were you born with? And to be born, isn't that another word? Another concept? Another idea? What does it mean? Well we take it to mean, I came into existence. Then, but did you? When did you begin? Well we can trace it back a little bit, we go back to your father and your mother. That life essence, vibrating energy, of life that you are, was in your father.

And it's where the food he's eaten, the breath he's taken, and the activities are going on. Out of those, food and all that, and air and everything else, there was, formed a little microscope, for his sperm to form. Something you cannot see, with your naked eye. Just a blob, of goo. And for all intents and purposes, it is no thing, but put it under a microscope, you'll see a big difference. You'll see there's some activity going on there. Activity of food, points out that it's suffused with intelligence, and knowing. And the same in your mother, that same life essence in your mother. Food, the essence of the food, the breath and everything else, enabled in that pattern.

Another little microscope particle, called an egg, to form. You cannot see that, with the naked eye either. And that attaches itself to all the uterus. To attach itself, doesn't really imply it was suffused with life. Intelligence. But it's going to move otherwise. And the sperm, it's just a few of them, intelligence, they swim to the ovum, again, applying. It wasn't just a blob. Neither of them were blobs, they were life itself. And, how did that life come about? Well, it was the life, and the food and things eaten by your father, and your mother, and the life, they came out of the father's life. And they say, in the beginning, can you trace a beginning to it?

There is no beginning. And they say, the world, or the earth, came about through a big bang. Now, how could that big bang, take place, if it wasn't in space? Would there be a big bang outside of space? Well, I don't think there could. Jim LeBel was about to read this. But I don't think there's any big bang out of space. So that's a bit of a fallacy also, isn't it? It started with a big bang. But there is ever a time, when it was not. There is ever a time, it will not be. So then we look at time, see that time itself is a mental concept, a thought, an idea.

And you look into its past, present, and future. That's what we call time. Now, if there's such a thing as past, well, test it out for yourself. Try and live yesterday, or last week, or ten minutes ago. And you realise you can't go back, and live yesterday. You can't go back, and live today. You can't live yesterday. Because it's transient, it's changed. It's fresh and new in this moment. Now, it has no duration. I was in the past, well, try and live yesterday. You can't say, ask yourself the simple question, what's wrong with right now? If I don't think about it. Well, what's wrong with right now?

Now I am. Can I negate that I am-ness? Well, I can. I can say I am not. But what enables me to say it? What enables it to be said? Isn't the very knowing, the intelligence of it all, what enables it to be said? I am. And it's illustrated in the Bible, when it was whoever it was, Moses, or Abraham, or Isaiah, or somebody, that had the Jewish people they needed to look after. They were wandering in the desert, and some of them were playing up a little bit. And he said, look at this, give them some rules to live by, otherwise they could go out and do what they like and cause all sorts of trouble.

So he sat and pondered over it, thought about it, and it came to him. Exactly, it came to him. It wasn't a thought or something like that. It was something that came up from that pure intelligence. And then what came to him was the idea of the commandments, the plates, the tablets. So he formed those tablets. And he said, I'll take this back to the people, it'll be some rules to live by. And he said, are they going to listen to me? And they realised, no, they won't listen to me, I'm just another ordinary monk. So I'll have to say, who shall I say sent me?

And he said, I'll come from somewhere. And to say I come from somewhere, and that voice that brought up the tablets, and the inner voice, the inner tuition, the life intelligence, brought up the idea into his head, tell them that I am. And Moses then realised, I am that I am. So that gives it a bit of meaning. When I know that I am, I am that life, I am that living, I am that being, I am that knowing, I am that nothing to me. Well, can you say about that? Have you recognised, or realised, or seen it? Tell us about it. You know, we've both got something to say about it.

And it can be expressed in many different ways. And to realise it's not just something coming from one person. It's innately in everybody. As I said at the start, it's that close, that's dismissed. We don't really see it. It's all around us. It's the nearest thing. It's before any beginnings. It's after all ending. It is right now. Being, knowing, loving to be. Anyone who is not being, you won't know. I'm being, I'm knowing that. And I don't want to be dead right now. But what other concepts are coming up? You might have to realise they are just concepts and discard them. And in the discarding of the concepts, where does that leave you?

Leave you what they call in, Buddhism, the great perfection. When they say the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. We'll see if that works for you. Drop all your concepts and see. So, get into it. Tell us about it. Teach in every way. We'll argue it amongst ourselves. We'll talk about it. Closer and then you're going to pull this one closer here. Closer. Okay. So, this is really, this is really, I find it crucial to actually really fully embrace that point when Bob is pointing to life. The life itself that created the body. The life itself that created the brain. Because it puts in completely different perspective all the questions that people often ask.

Like, how do I do that? How do I have less thoughts? Or some comments that I kind of tend to ignore because they're so irrelevant. Oh, Bob's definition of mind is not good enough. Well, who cares? They are all concepts. You know, if you really look at the core of the essence of existence, the source of all existence, what does it matter how you define the thinking process? Whether you include subconscious, which may not even exist unless you think about it. Whether you look at it as a machine, it doesn't really matter. Because it is life itself that is animating everything. And when you recognize life in all thy ways, it will direct your paths.

And we don't have any comments from online community yet. And I hope we will do. You can come a little closer. Yep. Now we have welcoming messages from quite a few people and goodwill wishes. And Laura says, thanks to Bob, it is really impossible to not see, unless you're blind, Freddie. And even then, he could not not see. And JB says, hope and few other people hope you're going to feel better. Yeah, you see, the camera. Yep. That's okay. Yeah. So you want to comment on that, Dean? Your turn. Yeah. I think the camera's on an angle, but that's all right. Thank you, Bob, for like even doing this spiel.

Like, you know, in your, in the current condition and circumstances, it's incredible. And like, I think that one of the last things you said in the spiel was like, what happens when you drop your concepts? And, and like in an instant, you know, every, there's not, there cannot be a problem that exists. That's not even possible. It's not, it's not possible to have a problem when the concepts are dropped. And then what remains? Well, all right, so there's no concepts any longer. And there's just this, this aliveness, this, this moment, this thing of emptiness of like something coming from nothing, but there's something is whatever's appearing.

And it can't be labeled. And it's like, it's just, it's quite, it's, there's no words. There's no, there's nothing. There's, you said dropped, dropped your concepts. Yeah. You said that. That was one of the last things you said in your little spiel. And as you said that in, in me, like even the, even non, all non dual concepts were dropped. Everything was dropped. And it's like, and wow, it's just space and space like awareness of, of this moment. And, and as it's really, and everything's healed, everything's resolved, everything's complete. Even those words are really a bit, bit, oh, what's the, how to get, oh, my goodness.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, we have, we have the cat. Sorry for that. Yeah, so that's the main, invitation, to actually see what is true. See what is true. When there is no abstraction, destruction, and when attention is not taken away. And we have, Oh, we just have, thank you. Thank you so much. And gratitude and lots of love. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I'm Kathleen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. from many people would you like to speak about it yeah so so that that's uh we invite everyone to actually help us a little bit and ask questions share comments and tell us what resonates what doesn't it is always a good starting point the best thing is actually to see and reinforce what is resonating strongly because that's the innate wisdom that's the that's what touches the heart and let's see i lost the picture of this and we have the comment from tanya sorry to hear bob is unwell sending lots of love oh come on he's all right so thank you and yes he's surrounded by lots of love that one is also the the love that we got in the flowers of love you know all the flowers we got are just expression there's so many ways of embracing love so and we are embracing it and we are receiving it and we are reciprocating it we are reflecting it back and yes the love you could you could look at it really as as the exchange of love as the play of love you know like sometimes bob says some people call it god or they say how you say it god is love you yeah well of course love they say god is love then love must be god yeah so allowing that love to flow freely is really allowing the god to express through you as you we don't realize that when we're expressing yes and who doesn't love to be loved who doesn't love to be in love who doesn't it's just such a natural bliss of experiencing and expressing love and love and love and love and love and love and love and expressing and letting that love flow and ruchika says oh get well soon good wishes thank you for your amazing teacher and teaching and support throughout could we talk laura says more about the memory why do i think past exists yeah brilliant question yeah yeah well i think the past exists because it's still there in the mind.

Mind is the past. Mind is the me. There is no me in the present right now. Mind is a concept, an idea about past, future. No such thing as mind apart from thought. And you don't know what your next thought's going to be. But a thought will come up and you say, I think. You've made that thought and translated it into the thought, I think. Don't realise that you've formed a subject when you say, I think. You have become a thinker. And the thought that's coming up has become the object. Subject-object is dualism. Dualism is not the reality. Hero Israel, the Lord thy God is one God.

There is nothing other, no one or no thing other than that presence, awareness, that beingness, that knowingness, that loving to me. We've got different labels on it and we get lost in the words and the labels that seemingly divide and separate. But look into it. Is anything separated? It all appears in the opposites. And it couldn't appear in the opposites. If it didn't seemingly appear in the opposites. Opposites are two ends of the one stick, two sides of the one coin. They're not separate. Like daylight and dark. The earth here is facing the sun and it's daylight here. The earth is, the world is a round planet, seemingly round.

And the other side is facing away from the sun, so it's dark. So there we have darkness and light. But are they separate? They're both. The world, or the world is pointing to the two different sides. And the space is all in, is the one space. Not two spaces, not separate. Good and bad. Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Nothing pleasant or painful. Without the two, there's no difference. There's no difference between the two. Without the one, there couldn't be the seeming other. Without the seeming one or the other, it's not divided. It's just as it is. As it is means what it is right in this present moment.

It's gone almost instantly. Now it's become was or will be. But the actuality, it still is. The old has passed along, gone. Another one's appeared, expressed. Things that, when the changes, as it says in the Incoming, appear in the empty world, and no discriminating thoughts arise, the old mind ceases to be. And when you're not discriminating or separating things, you see things one as is, whole and complete. In that whole completeness, the two might appear to be, but they still can't be separated. If you are not aware, what can you say without that awareness? You can't say anything at all. And then awareness, thoughts and feelings and words and conscious come up and seemingly separate the inseparable.

It's all the absolute. One intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing. Not your intellect, but knowing. And knowing implies a movement, an activity. Any movement or activity is energy. So intelligence energy. That's another term we can use if you're going to use the word God. The activity of knowing. The beingness. The knowingness. The loving to be. You can't get away from it. But we seemingly, through concepts and beliefs, we're seemingly away from it all the time. Trying to get back to something which is an impossibility. Because it's something that's never left. And that's what happens. It needs to be recognized as it is right now. Ask yourself, am I unaware right now?

And you realize you're not. You must be aware. Or I couldn't say anything at all without that life essence which forms and expresses those patterns, thoughts, feelings, emotions. You are that. I have a couple of online comments. And thank you for that. Jyoti says, I am not asking my questions because as soon as one arises, it is seen as a thought. Not sure where to go or what to ask. Isn't that wonderful? That is the freedom. Freedom from needing to know. Freedom from those urges to work it out in the mind. To have explanation. To have definition. To have some illusion of understanding. Because really, knowing the definition or knowing the concept has nothing to do with understanding.

So that's beautiful. If the question is recognized as just another thought and seen as that, that's beautiful. Tanya says, what pointers would you give when there is a doubt about my clarity about what is? Me is a thought, but it feels like there is a belief in a me here. So come closer then. So Bob, would you like to answer that? Tanya is asking, is doubt about my clarity about what is? Me is a thought, but it feels like there is a belief in a me here. Have a look at the definition of belief. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Have you reasoned it out?

Have you ever looked at it and said, ask yourself, what is this me or I? Am I this body? Am I this mind? Am I this thought? Am I this awareness or consciousness? See if you are any of these things without the label or the thought or the concept. And realize that without the concept, you haven't stopped being. You haven't stopped knowing that being. You haven't stopped loving to be. You are prior to the thought when there is no thought there. If you weren't prior to the thought, you would disappear, be the end of you. But it's not. Before you were born or after you were born, how many words were you born with?

How many thoughts or words did you have for the first couple of years of your life? You realize you had no words, concepts or thoughts. You were seeing, you were hearing, you were functioning naturally, effortlessly, and you had no words or concepts until you learned the words. When the capacity of reasoning started developing, then you learned words. And from then on, we've continued to learn more words and more words. And the word has become the seeming thing. Realize that you are prior to words. The first 18 months or couple of years of your life, you had no words. Now that means you were for the word.

So recognize that there is something, something that is prior to the word. And that is what you are. And the word is not the real. The word not the thing. It's a conceptual image we have about ourselves that we take to be real without questioning. The false cannot stand up to investigation. It needs to be looked into and see. You go to sleep at night and you dream a dream. When you wake up in the morning, you said a lot of, probably heard a lot of words, did a lot of things in the dream. Where are they when you wake up? Like the rest of the dream, it disappears.

There was nothing there. You don't realize when you wake up to this dream, which is a waking dream. Because this dream starts from where it left off the night before. And the trees and the fowls and the birds and the house, the cars and everything was there. The night before, not the same, but different patterns, shapes and forms were all appearing again. But none of those things in the dream appear in the waking state. They are not there. They seem to be. The false is what is seemingly so. It's not the real. When you investigate the false and see it, you can get yourself out of the dream.

Yeah, beautiful. You may also remember that even though there is a concept, and even though this concept is somewhat charged emotionally, there is a belief going into it. So there is a conceptual image of me, and that conceptual image of me feels real because there is a belief going into it. See if there is anyone who holds that belief. Because if belief is just floating through the space, that's not a problem of yours. You know, if you are that witnessing presence in which the belief just comes, sometimes strong, sometimes weak, you know, just like the mood comes, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, if you actually see that everything that comes through that space-like awareness that you are, that field of space-like, sky-like being, knowing, including the belief in the dream character, well, that's quite cute, isn't it?

It's not a problem. And now the dream character does something, or the dream character responds to something, well, so what? You are the presence in which that happens. And that's not personal. And did you want to add something, Yannick? Oh, well, um, um, um, Yeah? No, no, um, well, Bob, you say that, like, you know, the word's not the thing, and, and, and, you know, we're looking at these as concepts. How can a word have any sort of power? So, like, the word fire, you can't cook with it, you can't heat yourself, you can't burn yourself. How can a word be heated with energy, like, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire?

I still can't burn myself. Actually, my temperature might have raised a little bit. But, but how can a word, how can these concepts have any sort of, um, anything? Yeah. And people kill each other for them. Yes. So you, you recognise that, and you're going to be bound by them anymore? You see, that's true, you see, isn't it? The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without the concept, or the absolute. Mm-hmm. Yeah, great point. And we also have, yeah, we have the laughing face coming through. And, uh, we have Laura saying, memory is mind, and mind doesn't exist as a separate entity. Is that correct?

Yeah. Yeah, mind is just, look at the word mind. What is it? It is a word. What's a word? A sound. Mm-hmm. A sound. What's a sound? A vibration. And the vibration is a movement of energy. So the word is just a vibration of energy, the body is just a vibration of energy. It's all vibrating energy that we believe to have the words or the concepts make real. Make believe. Mm-hmm. Do you want to go on? Well, well, well, then why, Bob, like, if there's, if there's, they're all vibrating patterns of energy. Why is some energy believed to be, believed in more, or why is there more tension that goes into some energy than others?

Yeah. And what, is attention energy as well? Yes. Mm. It's all energy. Yes. Yeah. All energy. How do you fix this, Bob? Fix, fix this problem. Fix this, yeah. Yeah. Well, what's why? Why is the energy too? Another, yeah, another bit of energy. Another word. Yeah. Another concept. But this is the energy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But this is really a wonderful point. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great point because it comes, see, again, you look from the individual body mind. Why do I like this type of music and I don't like this type of music? Or why do I like pizza over pasta? Why am I attracted to this conspiracy and not the other?

Why not everyone following Bob? And all the, all the other questions, like why some people have really charged emotional, emotionally charged ideas over, you know, COVID and vaccines and stuff like this. And other people kind of don't. From individual perspective, it is absolutely unresolvable because every individual pattern is an outcome of the conglomeration of the whole universe playing out. It's like a symphony creating that particular response in that particular pattern and that and that and that in other patterns. But from the perspective of life, it's just so beautifully simple and easy. You know, as life, as life, you know, as life, you have infinite possibilities of experiencing and expressing yourself in infinite ways.

Some of the ways will only show up as a thought. Some of the ways will show up as a dream. Some of the ways will show up as a life story or movie or experience, you know, like as life, you experience yourself as a comet crushing a planet. As life, you experience yourself as a liberance or a fantasy. All of those experiences are possible. And you could ask why? And the best way Bob answers it, why not? It's possible. It's there. From life's perspective, it's clear and obvious why we don't have identical opinion about everything. Why we don't have identical preferences and choices and identical faces and fingerprints.

Yeah, life is, they call God creator because it's created. It's omnipotent. But I love that question. I had this experience this morning Bob. So someone sent me a picture, a photo of themselves and his chicken. And it was lovely, you know, and then instantly I was watching this picture and watching the descriptions of this picture. And then I decided to write something, to do a response. And it's like, is this a black chicken with white dots? Is it a white chicken with black markings? Or is it a picture of love and devotion from the person looking after a chicken? But what happens when the person...

And it went on and they just did a few little snippets of stories. But it was really clear, like that's just movement of energy, the mind just coming up with all these different descriptions. You could call it art, you could say it's this, you could say it's that. But really, when they actually collapse, because there's a knowing that none of them are actually... There's no position. There's no place. And then in the collapsing, it's like what you said earlier in the speech, like what happens when the concepts are gone? Or the perspective. There's infinite perspectives maybe playing out, but you are not one of them, or none of them are real, true.

And then it's like, oh, look. And then it's just, this image is just this image, and there's no word that can describe it. It's just... Mystery. Yeah, it's just totally mysterious. There's no conclusions, there's nothing. It's like, ah, you can relax. And that is... Total relaxation. There's nothing to worry about. Nothing ever has... There's never ever been anything to worry about. Except for Bob when he says the wrong thing every now and then. Which is never. Nothing's right or wrong, but thinking is. Yeah, nothing. Yeah, but that's beautiful, to be able to actually see that every interpretation coming about, every situation, is just one of the possibilities.

And when you see them all together and they collapse, that's the freedom. You don't have to believe any of the options of interpretation. And you are faced with the mystery of the absolute unfolding right in front of your eyes. Even though there's just nothing. Playing and dancing. And we have another comment here. Connor sends his love. And Kath. How does resting in being relate to doing? Great question. Feels like there needs to be an action as well as being. Yeah, absolutely. An action absolutely happens. You know, if you look at the wildlife, whatever is required in the moment, the body is not separated from the environment.

So breathing happens. Is it a doing or is it resting in being? Dividing it already creates a confusion. Because resting in being is basically resting the attention from taking credit for the doing. And the doing happens nevertheless. Heartbeat happens. If the stomach is empty, then the secreting of the acids happens. Oops, sorry. And the cooking happens. Everything that happens is just a narrative which usually comes up and takes credit. Oh no, I can't be right now. I have to do right now. Well, being is not obscured by doing. Oops, that's okay. Not in the part of the video. What was? No, no. It's okay. Julia says, the other day, and that's our American Julia.

The other day, I stopped myself in responding to a friend who posted that she had no regrets. I was left uncorrected. When it is seen that there is no one here, there is no one here to do anything. No one here to regret. No one here to regret, be ashamed, or be proud. Freedom is beyond being free from regrets. Freedom is being free from the concept of a me. Action happens. Nobody does anything. I love you both. That's beautiful you said, Julia. Yeah, absolutely. And if regret happens, it's just part of the landscape. It's not personal. It's the response to whatever happens in the landscape of experiencing.

And if the regret is my regret, and I should know I should, of course, then it's a suffering. But if it's just a part of the landscape, it doesn't even need a label. It's just a vibration of energy. Yes, beautiful you said. And Connor said, so mind is fictitious. Ah, Laura was saying, mind is fictitious, okay. And Connor says, the idea of mind is just another thought. Yeah, yeah. Mind is a label for the thinking process. And some people define mind in many, many different ways. Like Buddhists defined mind as a field, open field of consciousness. And they say, you've got to rest into unborn Buddha mind.

It's still mind. So the definitions can be very deceiving. The context that we're using, we're using thinking process. And again, some people may include this or that or the other. It isn't. It's really important because we are pointing beyond the mind. Mind is activity, just like any other activity. And Laura says, yep, thank you, Bob. And David says, how do we avoid the inquiry questioning becoming an intellectual experience? Thank you, God. Well, Bob, what would you like to answer that? How to avoid questioning inquiry being intellectual experience? How to avoid it being just done in the head? Well, I guess you just connect with that deep longing for the truth.

Because that is calling from the heart. And then, you know, you discard thoughts, all of them. Because the final answer is not going to show up as a concept. So when you ask, who am I? And the idea comes, oh, I am the universe. Trash it. Oh, I am God. Trash it. This is all nonsense. Whatever comes in words is just a concept. But the answer to who am I or the answer to who am I not? You know, I am not the body. I am not the mind. I am not this. But if it comes just on the level of, yeah, right, you know, I don't believe I am the body.

But do you know it? And then this deep feeling of longing for the truth is a great guidance to finding, because that same deep knowing will ease off when the truth is arriving. Just before, Bob, we were talking about something. I can't remember but you responded and ended the conversation by saying that it's like this awareness, there's a cognizing emptiness. The conversation ended at something like that. And I remember in that exact moment, it's like awareness and cognizing emptiness became a concept. It was like, even though it was a perfectly beautiful explanation, but it was saying that that's not it. It's just not it, no matter how profound and brilliant.

And even that's dropped. And it's just there's a tendency for the mind to create, to do that all the time. And I don't know what that is. What is that? The tendency. It's a good way of putting it. And who is there to avoid anything? Yeah, yeah. But recognizing tendency is already a great help. Recognize the tendency of narrating any deep discoveries, just putting in words. It's a tendency. Especially the most profound ones. Absolutely. I've got it. This is it. Ah, it's cognizing emptiness. That's the one. Yeah, then you're in big trouble. And you write it down in the diary. Yeah, in trouble. Again, as Bob says, who is there to grasp it?

And then you're in trouble. And then you're in big trouble. And then you're in big trouble. And just remembering that whatever comes up as a concept is just the attempt to grasp. And as Dean said, it's just the tendency of the mind. This biocomputer is conditioned this way. Because when you look at the survival mechanisms, it was really, really helpful. It was aiding in the survival of the species. Grasping or making a map of reality, understanding things, putting them in context, including the field of medicines or physics, or mathematics, fantastic quality. It just doesn't quite apply to finding the answer to life and everything. Because that is beyond concepts, beyond mind.

Because the mind is only a minute expression on that. And David, just stick in. Because initially, it's inevitable that everything will be narrated and just basically reduced to the intellectual, the intellectual grasp. And initially, you may even develop your intellect to the point that you will be saying a spiel better than Bob. But yes, the deep knowing is that that's not quite good enough, really. It's not quite fulfilling. It's not quite satisfying. The sense of incompleteness, the sense of not being enough is still there, even though the head, the intellect can narrate anything in a way that is absolutely beautiful. There is a heart knowing.

There is a sense of knowing that is completely beyond. But if you stick around, and remember you can also have individual meetings with Bob, it may help too. And just, yeah, if the intellectual, like reducing to intellectual conceptual understanding happens, notice the tendency. It's a tendency to be noticed. And Julia is answering to David as well. Inquire until no thoughts arise. There is no thoughts. There is no intellect. You can't have an intellectual experience without an intellect thought. And she sends a heart. Thank you, Julia. And Jane says the false can't stand up to investigation. So true. And Catherine from James, so much gratitude to true master of advantage.

Love you. Love for eternity. And thank you both of you. And... Read Advaita, Catherine also says. Damn, this autocorrect. Yeah, advantage probably was supposed to be Advaita, yes. And Kelly, sending gentle healing love. Thank you. And JB says, nice pointing, Dean. And David says, thank you. Yes. So any more questions, inquiries, any more things arising? Go on. Go on? Okay. See what comes up. So Bob, you speak about like this cognizing emptiness. Can you explain it a little more? Can you? Well, cognizing is... My idea of cognizing is knowing. Cognizing or recognizing, you're knowing something. Okay. What's knowing what? What is knowing what? What's being known?

What's... The same awareness that is being. It's knowing. It's loving to me. It's not thinking of it. Hmm. Yeah. That's a good question. So like you said in the spiel, like the sperm, there was like a... It was a knowing. There was intelligence energy rather that made it penetrate the ovum or... Yeah. So is that cognizing? Is that... Yeah. Similar to it. Similar? Mm-hmm. So, but you say like this, you know, this rock, is that... This isn't cognizing emptiness? Mm-hmm. This rock, is it... Has it got the capacity of cognizing? No, but you, the same you has the capacity of cognizing. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. About the rock, you can't tell.

No. Mm-hmm. You can have a theory. Yeah. But you can't tell. But to say the rock is empty. Mm-hmm. Everything is empty. Its space has got no content at all. Mm-hmm. But how does it know of itself? Through you. How does it know of itself? How does space know of itself? Well, it's a pure intelligence or being or knowing or whatever you like to be is. Mm-hmm. There, that's what all it is. And it doesn't really know itself as an object, obviously. It is pure subjectivity. So it knows it exists and then you know directly. You know that you exist, but to try and define yourself that I am this or I am that, that is ridiculous.

Because to define any boundaries around, you'll have to be beyond the boundaries and then you're not within it. It can't be known what you are and it can't be denied that you are. Yeah. You know you're existent. You know. You can't say I am not. Mm-hmm. Yeah. If you can't say what you're not, you must be what you're being is be another concept or something like that, but just to let pure being. Yeah. And being is knowing. Mm-hmm. It is loving to be. So is knowing a movement? Yes. It has to be a movement, doesn't it? Yes. The energy, the seeing, the hearing, the experiencing, tasting, touching, all activities.

Mm-hmm. Activities, yes. So in the stillness, there's not knowing. No. Exactly. So that concept of Shiva Shakti, Shiva is the stillness and Shakti is the movement and the world is Shakti. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The world is. Mm-hmm. Just the transformation of that potentiality. Shiva is the field of potentiality for movement. Or it's like electricity that it doesn't flow. You can't say that it is. You can't say it exists, but you can't say it isn't because the moment it starts moving, you have the light and heat or whatever. Shakti dances and the world appears or vibrates in other words. Yeah. Yeah. Can there be one without the other?

Can there be stillness without movement? No. No. Or... Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't be known. Can't be stillness without movement. Can't be movement without stillness either. Mm-hmm. Now we get silence without sound. We still have 25 minutes. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. But if there is no questions, there is no pressure. If nobody really wants to give us a topic for a deeper inquiry, we can just wrap it up. We can go and have some lunch. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What can YouTuber do? Yeah, the way you present a spiel is just so beautifully complete. We can elaborate on that, but it really leaves nothing out.

I mean, all the questions that come up are really answered in the spiel. You can take one pointer out of it, or you can pull one card off the box where the spiel is put in the form of pointers, and just sit with the pointer and see how the pointer is going to take you all the way. Yeah. all the way like you know the Bob started of Space and there is a comment here From Mitra, Dean Dean keep asking please it is clarifying Yeah, your questions are really good. They really go to the nitty-gritty details of them Well, I'm trying to get Bob to elaborate on certain things.

That's all yeah, that's what we want. Yes, please keep doing it I Don't think it's what you recognize yourself when you look in look into them Might be totally different to what way I'm saying Yeah, the way it expresses that's true. It comes the same message comes through every bird in a different song So just get yourself out of the way like Bob says and see what song will come up to you It will be different but it is the same source and if you Wanna sing a non duality that might be quite beautiful. You know, you want to sing pop music Maybe not too bad as well and We have Oliver There I am thought doesn't feel irrefutable to me because I implies this and that There is something or there is nothing feels more irrefutable to my mind Yeah Why not?

Yeah, that's a that's a good way to put it. You know, I am is just describing that sense of prisoners. That was not the word Yeah The knowing that you are having to say You know, I am Translation You don't have to say it. Yeah, there's a knowing that you are anyway There's a knowing of being I can be completely taken out of the equation But again sometimes, you know when when you communicate with people and you and you care about them you use their language So if someone someone who doesn't use that You communicate their language and those who do Just so many ways to some people call it being this business or Suchness yes I got the garb That was good You know that that's part of the teaching isn't it Bob like a nice Agadada's teaching is about stay with the I am this Yeah, this isn't a stay with the suchness The sense of prison is now I am this Why does he why is it pointed in that direction like to stay with that sense of presence?

Well, that's what it is The awareness of being prison. Yeah prison so in it But it is a good question because it is really crucial Because that is the only thing you can actually know for certain you starting from Right from the where all the juice is this is the starting point and this is the ending point the certainty of existence And that existence is reflected as 10,000 things around but you're gonna be investigating the 10,000 things including the body that appears including every silly thought that appears why not start from the source that existence That radiance of being that is what nice Agadada is pointing to this is the only truth This is the only truth known directly Nobody told you that you are being they might have told you that you are a woman a man Australian or German or whatever But the truth that you know first-handed stay with that truth Don't let anything, you know, the attention will flow to other things that appear in the beautiful field of dancing phenomena Of course But if you can bring that attention back to the certainty of being which is the truth Stay with the truth stay with the truth of your being and you Sargadatta call it the diamond of good fortune That's but that's a beautiful thing to highlight is never enough of bringing it back You know rather than having thousand questions answered and thousand answers in the head to give away to others Just come back to the heart of hearts the truth of your own being Isn't that like what like a lot of the pointers are pointing you back to yes So this Agadada might have said it in that way stay with your being to stay with the I amness Bob says Something like like, you know, pause a thought.

Yeah What's wrong with right now? Isn't it? Isn't it? Everything's just mm-hmm. Everything that's been pointed to is collapsing back into that that meanness that sense of presence um Yeah So so what knows that how is that known Bob? How's your sense of presence? No, are you unaware right now? Where you are is there an unawareness there? No, no, and you can't negate it. No, that's not so you must be aware You don't even know what it is. Is that it? Is that it? That's it? Something better than that Let's study with that and see how good it is really I love how we embrace the role of a seeker because we know that he's got the beautiful clarity But even putting himself in that and all of the seeker as as a service to help bringing it up beautiful.

Thank you but the Saga dad also says Bob you know, he said you stay with this sense of presence stay with this I am this and It will do its thing. Hmm to you in a sense. And then you also go beyond it. I mean, but could you say anything about that? Well, once you see the dream is doomed, you've done all you can and all you need to do, but the rest will be done for you. The life in you, you know, that brought you into existence, it's growing, you're breathing, it'll bring up whatever thoughts or ideas or concepts you need to have. And as Einstein says, you know, they worked on a problem for weeks, couldn't find any answer to it.

One night he just went to sleep. The next morning it was there. And what do they tell you in the Bible? Cast your bread upon the waters and after many days it will return. It does, you know, when you're looking for something and when you've seemingly let it go, it will all of a sudden turn up. Can you let go of your sense of presence? Yes. Try it. Try it. Try it, yeah. That is a great question. Yeah, try it. Can you negate that? Nothing, nothing, everything. Try and negate that. And can you grasp it? Exactly, yeah. And see who is trying, by the way, too.

And we have Oliver. Can you help illuminate why awareness seems to disappear in deep sleep before birth and after death? And Vivek says, Dean knows... He knows reality, but he is acting and playing the role of a seeker on the stage. And how loving is that, by the way? This is love in action. I mean, we were honored with all that loving flowers. We're going to honor you now. That's just honoring with love. Yeah, so... Come on. Beautiful. So you want to help illuminate why awareness seems to disappear before birth, and in a deep sleep? Yeah, it seems to, but doesn't. Does it? Yeah. When you wake up from a deep sleep and you say, oh, I slept well, that implies to me there was an awareness of your unawareness.

Yeah. Why, how could you say you slept well? Mm-hmm. Must be something there that recognized or knew it. And does the electricity disappear when you flip the light off? Mm-hmm. That is the disappearance, the light, the expression of it, like the memory, the expression of awareness. That may be put off. It may be put on hold. But that field, that potentiality, you yell someone's name quite loud, and they apparently even hear it in coma. And before death and after, no, before birth and after death, well, who knows? It's like before you switch on the light and after you switch it off. The potentiality still remains.

And a good way to bring it, I love the way, some of the Buddhist teachings, but Advaita teachings, all of the teachings really point out to ineffability and no binary answer. Just find yourself in a place where the mystery remains mystery. When there is neither yes nor no, and there is neither neither nor both, that is where the mystery stays. And if you can find comfort, because the thinking mind feels, threatened, there is an experience of fear. Oh God, I don't know, what am I going to do? Oh, I have to find out. If you find comfort in that mystery, in that unresolvability, in that, because you can't reduce it into the binary yes-no dualistic manifestation, because dualistic manifestation is only a minute expression of that.

So it can't be brought into yes-no answer. But just finding comfort without any fear, in staying, staying in that field of absolute mystery, being okay with life, being one with life. Life doesn't need to understand itself and put itself in the black and white. And keep asking the questions, because they bring up this clarification. So we absolutely welcome them. I used to have these experiences of being aware of deep sleep. Very hard to describe, very hard to talk about, but there was likely, there was like this, some sort of strange knowing or really just understanding that deep sleep was happening. Well, there we are, we were just talking about that before.

Yeah, yeah. So you've had the experience of it. Yes. But then what happened was that there was like all this, you know, effort to try and figure something out here. Ah, so this is like this, this is like that, this means this, this means that. Nah, awareness, this is consciousness, this is movement, this is not movement. And in the end, it was like exactly what you sort of finished up with. It's like being like totally accepting of not knowing a damn thing. Like there's absolutely no conclusion. That experience was like a hindrance in a way, because it made sort of me to grasp and then to try and find things.

And then when all that's let go, then it's like, oh, well, this is an experience. And I don't know anything more than anyone else. And there was, you know, there's nothing that can be known on that level. In fact, the more you understand of this, Yeah. the less you know. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Actually, the more I hang around with Bob, the less I know. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the more comfortable you are with not knowing. Yeah. Yeah. That's the beauty. Right. Well, you know, you said there's no conclusions. Well, that's one of the texts that don't they? In it, there are no conclusions. Yeah. Oh, you're on the right track now.

Freedom from the known and freedom from the necessity to know. Yeah. But first, you know, in your training, you learned the subject matter of the soul. That's right. And when you're thinking about creating, creating the un識able, it's not impossible. It's easy. It's easy. It's simple. There is no difficulty. You know. No, no. No. I mean, part of this is real. You have to learn it. It's very simple. What I'm saying is that in the past, you knew that you could not be that, No. And when you think of the way that machinery has been trained, not when you were born, without any words. When you were born, there was no distinction between objects because there was no label.

They were sounds that initially were undistinct. Apparently even field of vision wasn't really trained to distinguish shapes and forms and colors. When the mind has been trained enough to label and understand and find comfort in explanation, only then the idea of not knowing and fear of not knowing was conditioned into the machinery and it perpetuated the machinery. Isn't it? What? The newborn baby wasn't afraid of being without understanding a thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And Mitra says, love this conversation. Mitra loves this conversation. Conversation. Conversation, yes. I have a question for you, Bob. Another question. You've been teaching and pointing this stuff for like, how many years?

45 years or so. More. And in that time, there's been all different seekers and some, you know, some, when you give the pointer, sometimes it just bang. It just goes. It just smashes and hits them and explodes. And others seem to be like, you know, incubating in these lessons and teachings and words for 10, 20 years. Like what? And there's such a dynamic in between all these people you've come across over all these years. What is this play? Like, what is this game that's going on? And how does it, how does all this work? I mean, is it important? We don't know. Like, what can you, can you say anything about it really?

Like. Well, when it's, when it's going to happen, it happens. It didn't happen here for years, as they may. They had no idea what it would be like, you know, having certain concepts you have to lose everything. You know, be paid to someone, bow down to someone and all this sort of rubbish. But the whole lot disappeared, you know. But it is a good question because yes, people have expectations of some sort of a thunderbolt or. some people say okay so what is it black and white is it is it happening in one instant or is it happening slow ripening over the time what is or is it both it ripens and then it falls different metaphors are being used for it but the truth is the nature the life and again this is the ultimate perspective the perspective of that life essence expressing through every single pattern it hasn't created two fingers pretty fingerprints that would be the same it hasn't created two stories that would have been the same so again and is it it that it happens because in direct experience are you unaware no you're not you're already aware so it is happening throughout the life right from the birth and before it it is already happening always and ever now the distractions the attention moving away from the miracle of existence from the radiance of being that will those distractions disappear in one instant all those clouds will just go and open up in the sky clear sky will show itself or will that be the clouds will be seen through one at the time well again that's assumes future how about this moment now this moment now are you unaware they've been , I had it and I lost it how can you lose it you are it and they're recognizing it seeing through it in the first place and you saw the duality that was there in the first place then you recognize it's non-dual and then what happens the concepts start coming up again and you seemingly lost it just drop your concepts that's all jane says the play of consciousness to paraphrase shakespeare and tell tall tells tell tall tells ts old by idiot signifying nothing of the tail tall line in here yes yeah I guess I'm leaving yeah Andrew says my name is Andrew Miller Jane says told by sorry about typo yes sorry for reading the typo yes sorry for reading the typo Julia everyone is awake here and now Julia everyone is awake here and now and only here and now so to say Mitra says it felt to me that I need to fully accept that no practice, no understanding, nothing that I do will wake me up I am not there but I am not too far to feeling as total failure laughing yeah who is that I?

you are a total failure but the I that you believe yourself to be is not the truth that's right that I that imagines itself that conceptual image fed by the energy of attention that is surely to fail getting out of itself because whatever gets out of that costume is not that dream character that dream character can never ever ever wake up from itself it's totally impossible it's not difficult it's impossible the dream character and I sometimes present that analogy is like a cartoon character written in the book and you can watch that life of that character in the book and that character is called Mitra Mitra does this she was born she was growing up and then she had children or marriages whatever that was and now you are reading that book and wondering what is going to happen by the end of the book is she going to wake up or is she not?

well whichever way the book ends the character belongs on the pages it will never get out of the book and read it and look at it from outside it will end up in the pages you can burn the book but are you that character? that's the question you are the one that looks at it and reads it and she lived happily ever after yes the book is immortal it's immortal I mean everything changes but this they live longer than you Shakespeare's books live longer than you everything becomes a projective yeah who's the subject? there you go and Jane says you can't wake up when you are already awake can you?

you are the one looking at Mitra's story whatever happens to Mitra you are the knowing of it already and Vivek says you lose everything knowledge identity and you gain everything and that you which loses and gains has never been lost that is the presence in which the whole world unfolds that's the being in which the whole universe dances including the body and the thoughts and all of it and yeah we have another three minutes to go I might be able to last you must you've done this long? yeah you've done this long this far? give us a nice summary no I'm just really grateful like you're not feeling well Bob and you've still managed to come here and do what you're doing and it's yeah it's just a big thank you really probably on behalf of everyone who's watching and listening as well but it's also life doing its thing isn't it?

it is it still doesn't we still can still celebrate that and put garlands around your neck and all that kind of stuff it's garland it's here it's here on the Christmas tree it's beautiful yes we had actually I had those comments and I don't know if you did yesterday we had a beautiful concert made by Kavisha in honoring Bob and a lot of people were saying that even in a difficult times even going through health challenges you always show up and of course there is no doing behind it it's just what life does through and today he wasn't you know he wasn't forced to do that either he was asked if he's I wasn't forced they dragged me over screaming and threw me in the chair you wish you wish yeah it's just what he does it's beautiful it's a wonderful example of availability and love of being shining through and reflecting it to anyone who needs a little bit of a friendship and love and guidance from someone who is there absolutely agree says Jane thank you so much Bob get well soon and Oliver says probably too soon to say but will next week be in person yeah why not I mean of course it depends yeah you're gonna be fine are you who knows yeah it's definitely not gonna be infectious so if he's gonna be feeling well I shall hope so and that will be a new year eve that's right best of luck okay so thank you everyone thanks everyone yeah thank you we had over 30 people today so big thank you a lot of love Bob thank you so much thank you and thank you for all the questions good job