Whose volition? Sailor Bob and nonduality group investigation. 1 Oct 2023

Kathy, Shagdi, Ceele, Conradu, Joe, Salina, Gengi, Kavishan, Salila, Kola, Shagdi, Janine, Heidi, Michael, Jane, Julia, Mitra, Dean, Jason, Bob. Off you go. Away we go. Good to see you all. Good to see you. Lovely to see you. We all know what we talk about, what they call non-duality in a lot of the ancient texts. Non-duality meaning one without a second, not two, only that. And that's what needs to be seen, recognised, grasped and understood because that is all there is. And we know that because it's the great mantra, I am that. And that's the chair you're sitting on, that's the carpet on the floor, that's the floor, that's the ceiling, that's that.

The trees, the flowers, everything is that which we discriminate with the words we put on. We've learnt other words and put them on as chair, carpet, this, that and the other, me, you and I. And it's all the one essence that pattern shapes and forms experience and expressing as everything. And they point that out by the great perfection, they call it. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. The great perfection is the basic space. Or another way they put it, the basic space, the phenomena. And we miss that. It's just space, the basic space. And everything, every pattern, shape and form, you and I are things, the trees, the flowers, the birds, the bees are all things.

Everything are the content of that space. Space is no thing. Have a look at it. You're in space right now. It's the closest thing to your eyeballs, the first thing you see. Can you find a beginning to it? You can't. Can you find an end to it? Does it have any boundaries? Any circumference? It is no thing. It has no shape and form because it's boundaryless, it's beginningless, it's endless. It's endless. But all the shapes, forms, pattern, shapes and forms appear and express in it. And they can only be as that. But we take the pattern, shapes and forms to be separate and apart from it.

So the idea I, you and me, we are these persons, we are these separate entities. These individuals. This is I, this is me. These are just concepts or words we've learnt. How many words were you born with? You go back and look at it and you realise, you were not born with any word. You didn't pick up words until you're about a year or 18 months or so old. When parents fussing around you speaking words and the capacity of reasoning developing in you, we learnt words. And we've taken the word to be real. But the word is not the thing. Try and drink the word water.

Swim in it. Wash in it. Drown it if you can. The word fire, try and cook with it. All these other words we use. See what they mean. This word I or me. And you didn't have it for the first 18 months or so of your life. And we try and tell you, you were born. We say I was born. But can anyone of you actually remember your birth? How can you remember your birth if you had no words? So you lived for the first 18 months or so and I continue to live right now without the word. You are prior to the word. And that's another thing we don't realise.

Because we think I am this person. I am Bob. I'm so and so. I'm this, that and the other. This is you. This is me. We've taken the word to be real without investigating it. And the belief goes in to the word. And so we've got this conceptual image. This pattern shape and form. I am this body. I am this mind. I am this individual. What is I am? Couple of words we've learned. What's it mean? What it is. We think. Because we never investigate and don't investigate. We think it's this person. This EME. This is I am. But I am is just. An expression.

Of that presence of awareness that you are. How could you say that you are? You'd have to say I am. But there again we make the mistake of saying I am this individual. I am this person. And so we've got this conceptual image. Which we reinforce every day. And put the energy of belief. Add more words, concepts and ideas to it. And so we've got a story. I am Bob. The good fellow. We're not so good. He's unhappy, fearful, anxious, depressed, guilty. All these concepts are added to it. With the thoughts, feelings and emotions. That come up. Just like in nature. There's steam, water and ice.

Three aspects of the one thing. And other things you can relate that to. But with this body mind. We are this person. I am this body mind. This entity. This separate entity. But am I the body? As we say these things need to be investigated. Looked into and seen through. Because the false cannot stand up to investigation. That's another thing they'll point out to you. Investigate and see. Recognise. Test it out and recognise. If the false is false. It won't stand up to investigation. It'll fall apart. Am I this body? Well, you know you're not the body. You say my body. You say my house, my car, my coat.

You know you're not the coat. You're not the house. You're not the car. Maybe you're not the body either. And when you investigate that. What's this body made up of? This body is made of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just the same as the elements around you. Form into patterned shapes that form it. All those elements. Can be broken down to summertime particles. Into pure energy. All this body is vibrating of energy. And it's intelligence energy. It's not an accidental or willy-nilly way or haphazard way of expressing. It expresses intelligence. It's not as intelligence as the body. The same with the thing called mind.

Show me a mind if you think you've got a mind. You say my mind. Again, like my house, my car, there's no such thing as mind. Apart from thought. And if mind is thought, which particular thought am I? Well, if you were the thought, you'd be this I thought. And if you were this I thought, you'd be frightened of just losing it. Letting it go. It'd be the end of you. But you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. So you're not the I thought. You're not the person. You're not the body. You're not the mind. And I was like calling it.

As they tell you again. It is absolute. Total. Non-conceptual. Basic space. They put it as the basic space. The phenomena. That's the basis of it. The basis. It's space. Space. Space like awareness. Because there is nothing in this room or outside of this room that is not the content of space. What would it be in? You can talk about planets and stars and things like that. Next lives and all the rest. Can you postulate or think of anything that could be out of space? What would it be in? So see what they're posing to? The basic space of phenomena. Non-conceptual, ever fresh present with it.

And we think space is something different, something physical. Not realising that you and I and everything else are the content of space. Appearing as solid. The Sagata tells you that it's only life. It's all life expressing. And they call it Satyatananda. Narama Rupa, the five factors of Hinduism. Existence, consciousness bliss. Aim and form. Narama Rupa. Anyone who is not existing right now? You'll say, no, I'm existing. Anyone who is unconscious? No, I'm conscious. Or unaware? No, I'm aware. Anyone not happy to be? Well, none of you want to be dead right now. So you realise, fit that value. You are the existence. You are the consciousness.

You are the loving to be already. What the hell are you looking for? When you are that. And that's the great mantra. I am that. That is what I am. And as I said before, that's the chair, that's the carpet. Everything is that. Which we put different labels on. So take it as absolute. If it's absolute, what can you add to absolute? Not the smallest or tiniest thing. If you could add anything to it, it wouldn't be absolute. What can you take away from it? Again, you can't take anything away from it. It wouldn't be absolute. And if it's absolute, and you know you are the absolute, who could ever be superior to you?

Who could be inferior to you? And what would you want from anybody else? So isn't that what our lives made up of? This one's better than me, and I've got to obtain it. Or this one's not as good as me, I'm better than them. I've got this and they haven't got that. And they've got something I want. All this conceptualising and stuff that's going on, we've beaten ourselves up with them. It's the belief that we are these separate entities, these persons need to become. Realised or recognised. But what's becoming? Becoming is another concept in time. We need to look at this concept of times. Investigate that.

Is there a past if you don't think about it? And you can't say there's a past or a future without a concept. And they call it, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Awareness is not divided into past, future, present, painful, without any concepts. All a concept is is a mental construct. Now, if it's past and future time, and we think we're going to become something, you'll see it can never happen. Because becoming implies a future time, something you haven't got right now. And when you investigate time, is there a past? If you don't think about it, you can't say there's a past without a thought.

Is there a future without a thought? You can't say there's a future. Or what about this now? This now is not duration. Time is duration. To get from here to there takes time, duration. But now is spontaneous. Are you unaware right now? It's already gone. And it starts again in the moment. So it's spontaneously starting and finishing at the same time. It's got, it doesn't hang around. But we keep it there. We put a conceptual image on it and got some duration. And what's going to happen tomorrow? Or what happened yesterday? We're either in the past or future in this time bound concept, which we suffer accordingly.

Now this specific moment is spontaneous. It's got no duration. Spontaneously happening now. But we've got these concepts, mental concepts that are there, that will seemingly take us into what we've believed to be a past or a future. But can you go back and live a moment ago? You can't live a moment ago. You can't live a moment ago. You can't live yesterday. Or last week or last year. You can recall it. And the only actuality given is if you recall it. If you're not recalling it right now, it's gone forever. And it's only in the memories what we keep in recall that give it some sense of reality.

But it's not real. Because it's the dead past. The same with the future. You can anticipate and imagine what you're going to do when you leave here. But that anticipation and imagination is not what is right now. It's about this future time. And it's happening like where everything happens only in the now. In the presence awareness. And that's another way they put it. Non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. And they add onto it just this, nothing else. So when we're looking, trying to become or be something in the future, wonder why we don't get there. We meditate on this and practice that and pray about this. Conceptual like this.

Trying to look for the answer in the mind. Where if you look at the mind and see there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. And if mind is thought, which particular thought would you be? Or you'd be that I thought. But you give up that thought gladly every night when you go to sleep. If you were that I thought you'd be frightened to lose sight of it because it'd be the end of you. But it's not. So when you start to look at these ancient texts, you look into them and see them in a different light. Thought free. Ever fresh. Presence awareness. Justice, nothing else.

Sat you at an end and Naam a rupa. Naam a rupa is the body mind. Naam a is the name. Rupa is the form, the body. And they tell you clearly Naam a rupa is Maya. It's illusion. This body mind, these people, so called people, you and I and everything else sitting here. Illusory pattern shapes and forms which are appearing in that space like awareness. Because everything you see, say, think, do or feel is the content of space. Try and get out of space if you can. If you think you're separate, if you think you can. You realise you can't. Space is empty. It is no thing.

Means it hasn't got any shape, any boundaries, any pattern, shape or form. It's not a thing. And everything, including you, me and every other thing, the birds, the bees, the planets, the stars, everything, are the content of space. Try and get out of space if you can. So, space is no thing and everything is the content of space. Can something come from no thing? It can't. It can't. So, what are you searching for? You're trying to become some thing. It doesn't happen. Because it can't happen. All this manifestation is no thing. Like they call it, it's like a dream. As Architector tells you that you're dreaming a dream you call the world.

He says, stop looking for ways out. And that's our problem. We try to find the answer to this dream. Try to find a way out of it. He says, stop looking for ways out. The dream's not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other. He says, love all of it or none of it. Once you see it as a dream, you've done all you can. And this is the beautiful thing that goes on to say, and everything will be done for you. It will, in recognizing it as a dream, it will, you've done all you can. And the rest will be done for you.

And when you relax into life and see that instead of trying to become this, you'll find it unfolds. It changes. And things fall into place. And that's what happens here. And I know what it was like with all the boundaries and concepts and ideas and mental constructs I had. And all the fears and the angst and all the rest of that caused for years and years. It's not there today. Because it can't be believed in. For years and years these things were seen to be real. Our parents reinforced it. Our schools and everybody else. And we began reinforcing ourselves when we learnt words without question.

And we've taken it on board and believed it. But there's also been a few down through the ages that have looked into it and seen through it. And they're the ones the ancient texts and scriptures are formulated about. And they're pointing to the truth. But we don't even notice it then a lot of the codes. And we put our own interpretation and concepts. Well that one they tell you straight away. The basic space. The base. The base of everything is space. Emptiness. And there's nothing you can postulate or think of a tool that can be outside of space. And you know that. But we put space to one side and then took the content and try and work on that.

So another thing they point out is the false cannot stand up to investigation. And when you look at it and investigate it, if it's not the truth it'll fall apart. Because that's what they say also. Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. That's where the freedom is. In recognizing the truth. Recognizing. It's another word we picked up. They call it a cognizing emptiness. A knowing emptiness. We think we cognize the emptiness. We don't. It's the emptiness itself. That has that capacity of cognizing or knowing. And the Buddha pointed that out a couple of thousand years ago. And he said emptiness is form.

All these forms. You, me and everything in this room. The planets, the stars and all. Are all empty. We're that basic space. Emptiness is form. And he pointed out it the other way. He said the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. No matter what we believe about them or think about them. We're saying there's still only the emptiness. Always have been and always will be. Well what would you do when you recognize this? You're going to continue to search. Try and find some conceptual or thought way through it or out of it. Or you're going to do what they say. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity.

Relax into it. Stop contriving and postulating and thinking of other thoughts, concepts. Relax. See where it takes you. This architect points out again there. He calls it life. And that's what it is. Life or intelligence energy. Life essence. Then labels were put on it again. The pure being. Pure knowing. And he says there's only life. There is nobody who lives the life. That includes you and me. We are bodies. We're not living the life. The life lives on life. And out of life more life comes. Have a look at that. Where did you come from? When you're looking at it, you came from the life of your father and your mother.

That animating life essence, that intelligence energy in your father enabled in that pattern through the foodies eating the prana and the things that are going on. A little micro-spy particle called a sperm to form in that body. That sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. And in your mother the same thing happened. That animating life essence just called your mother. Enable in that pattern a micro-spy particle called an egg or an oven to form. That egg attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It knew what to do. It wasn't just a blob of good floating around. It was the fuse of that life, intelligence.

And knowing what to do, it attached itself to the wall of the uterus and the sperm. Knowing what to do, swam to the oven. It knew what to do. And it penetrated the oven. And in doing that when those two came together, the activity, the pure intelligence entity that's functioning, doubled that cell, redoubled it again and the little embryo, the little fetus formed is what you are today. What were you doing about it then if you think you're running the show? I realised it all happened naturally and effortlessly by itself. I believed I was doing things for years. Got me into steep shit and deeper shit.

Ended all sorts of strife and all sorts of trials. And it was hard to recognise and see through it. And there was a lot of not wanting to. But it became so desperate and so seemingly self-destructive that it made me look elsewhere. And in looking elsewhere, as I say, the rest was done for me. It took me where I needed to go. Who I needed to see, what I needed to hear and be aware of and what I needed to recognise and realise. And changes came about. Where before I was trying to claim them, I did this and I did that, I realised I couldn't claim any of it.

As soon as I put in that idea that I could do it or be something, there was trouble. But in relaxing and letting it happen, it unfolds naturally and effortlessly like a sun. Like it does. Like it does. Just like the earth rolling around the sun. Seasons coming and going. Tides coming in and out. Happening naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously. So, the basic space has never changed. But the content, the pattern, shapes and forms are continually changing. And if the belief goes into the pattern, shapes and forms, there's problems. But left as they are, they freely unfold of themselves naturally and effortlessly. Life lives on life.

And so, when I say, I came for the life of my parents. They came for the life of their parents. And they came for the life of their parents. So, it's only the life, or the intelligence energy, which I call intelligence energy, that pattern, shapes and forms, plays around and can vibrate, expressed in all these different pattern, shapes and forms. And we take on the pattern, shape and form to be real. And suffer accordingly. Because the pattern, shape and form is transient. It's constantly changing. That body you walked into the room with is not the same body it is now. There are thousands of cells dying in it right at this moment.

And being replaced. What are you doing about that? Nothing. But it's happening. And it continues to happen. And when you start to recognize what is going on, and look into all these beliefs we've taken on. The belief that we are this person. The belief that I can do that. And the belief that this and that and the other. Have a look at your dictionary definition of belief. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Something's going on, we haven't reasoned it out, we've just taken it for granted. Unquestioned. Acceptance of an alleged fact. They tell me, oh you are this person, you are this body of mine.

Oh yeah, I'm Bob the Australian. Don't I believe that one? Learn the words, of course I do. And believe it for some years. And we'll still be believing it. If something hadn't moved it to point it out. To recognize that there was more to it than that. Look up your dictionary definition of belief. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Means exactly that. We haven't worked it out, we haven't reasoned it out, we've taken it for granted. I am this person and I am this body and I've got to do this to fix the person and do that. Acceptance of an alleged fact.

It's alleged that I am this body, mine and I'm taking it to be a fact. Without positive knowledge or proof. Put it to the test. That's what needs to happen. Recognize, put it to the test. Is this the truth? And Christ tells you, I am the way. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he's talking about himself. He's not talking about himself, he's talking about that sense of presence. The sense of presence which each and every one of us now, that sense of presence is I am. He says that's the way, that's the truth, that's the life.

Recognize it, investigate, see what this I am is. It's just a concept which expresses the sense of presence. The knowing that I am, to point out that I am, I've got to say those words, I am. But they are not, they're just pointers towards it. But I am the way. That's the way to go. That is the truth. That is the life. That is the basic space of phenomena. The base. We don't, we hear that word basic space, we think oh yes, it's all space. Which it is all space. But space, what's the basic space mean? Means it's the base in which everything forms and comes and appears upon and stays upon and out without of it.

What could there be? Everything in this manifestation is the content of that space. And you and I and everything else is that. Which we want the erroneous belief that I am this body. And it's known here. Each and every one of you know it. And express it in some particular way. We're more locked into the body-mind entity than what we are into the life. Isn't it? And each and every one of you bring into this room the energy, the life that is in this room, that fills this room. There's no one in this room, it's empty. It's the space like awareness. Basic space. Fills up with the content.

And what's the content? It is that space which is formulating patterns, shapes and forms which seemingly appear to be actual. To be real. But there's only one life. One reality. One truth. Non-dual. That's what non-duality is. One without a second, not two. That's what it always was, that's what it always is and that's what it always will be. Non-dual. Duality is relative. And all our problems are problems of relationship. Relative to. Relative to the, some other. Something other or other than. Relationship, relativity is duality. So if you're looking for non-duality, no use looking in relationship. Look to where the relative is not and see the oneness of it all.

And then it naturally falls into place. And you don't have to cling, struggle to maintain it or keep it there. It will stay there of its own accord. Because they say, know the truth. Know it and the truth will set you free. That's all that has to happen. And they express it as being, as such of an end, knowing and loving to be. You're all being, you're all knowing that and you're all knowing to be. So, start with the fact that you are already that. Keep investigating. As they say, there's a saying in the scriptures. Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. How would you renew your mind?

Keep reminding yourself that I am that. I'm not this body, I'm not this mind. Because you lose sight of it from locking out into the person. Keep reminding yourself what I truly am. I am the one essence. I am the pure being. I am the reality. And if you're in that presence awareness, you haven't got much time or thing to look at anything else. It resonates and vibrates. And expresses. So that's a bit of a rough idea what it's all about. And some of you know it here, have heard it before. And can tell us about it, which you can. You can put it in different words than I do.

Those different words somebody might resonate with, or they mightn't recognise the crap I'm saying. But it's up to each and every one of you, and that's what we keep the thing going with. So away you go. Thank you. Thanks, Bob. Thank you. I'm going to hold it around the corner. Yeah, we have a little bit of a glitch on Facebook. Apparently I just Googled it, it's Android problem. So it will have to be fixed from their side. I'll work it out later. So we only have welcoming messages from our community, online community, and reports on the glitch. So there is no questions. There are no questions from out there.

So the mic goes to you. Anyone would like to share anything? Or maybe tell us what actually moved you, what you heard when Bob was speaking? Because the presumption is that everybody is already aware of presence. It's not a presumption, it's a certainty. It's undeniable certainty. Everyone is aware that they are existing and they are present. So sharing that awareness, sharing that clarity, is really what we do. Rather than going into a story of what is wrong or what is missing, highlighting what is already known, and putting the attention on that certainty of being, on that natural state. Strengthen the natural state. But if there is, as Bob often says beautifully so, if there is anything that is obviously obscuring that natural state and is really standing in a way and is bothering, that could be voiced as well and we can just dispel it.

That will be the clarity of sky-like awareness and the cloud which shows up, be it some temporary life challenge or be it some persistent thought or relationships with their self-identity or definition, whatever it is. Just bring it on. What's the role of volition? The capacity to consciously focus your attention, your ability to... Well, if the light wasn't there, could you have any volition? That's why I wanted you to talk about it because I know it's a big key. It's an open question. Hello? You're alive right now? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. What's your role? I'm just being aware as that. To ask that question, was it? Huh? To ask that question, was it? Huh? Was it? Oh! So how did the Bob person come to that place where he knows he is that, and what was the role of Bob's... it's a good thing, and I know. Well I don't know, you're asking. So how did the Bob person come to that place where he knows he is that and what was the role of Bob's attention placement back in those days when it all happened? Well I'm pointing out Bob has no role, he thought he had a role but while he thought he had a role he was in the problem and the problem will always will be while there's a belief there's somebody that hasn't but in the recognition there is only life that is all there is and you are that life and everything every so-called thing around you is expressions of that life who or what is there that's separate from it Are you asking me a question or are you just you?

Are you asking question yet? Yeah, yeah, just it's not really a brainer but it is an important question which we hear quite often the illusion of free will and we can very easily see through it like who is who is or where is the volition to turn the attention and look at some particular thing Bob or flower where is that volition? How did I make the conscious choice to look at Bob or at the flower or at the room? Is there anyone who is making a choice or is it just a thought arising in consciousness Did I choose to be a believer of particular thing or did I choose to have particular preference for food or for music or was it just a thought arising in consciousness according to the way the body has been conditioned So it really shows when we look deeper into it.

It really shows how redundant any idea of a doer or controller or illusion of self is it really life is much simpler It flows much more naturally when that illusion is out of the way because then the suffering is out of the way also And when we look at the animals, how do animals choose which to hunt? Let's say there is a lion hunting a herd of antelopes and it picks one. Oh, yeah, it has a volition or conscious choice. No, we know it's instinctual. We know the body is already conditioned to evaluate and instinctually it follows whatever the urge is there and we are no different.

I mean there is a difference. There is a huge difference. We have the commentator narrating about it all the time there is an urge to eat or to mate or to do whatever and there is a commentator there saying no, this is I this is me I'm doing it. I'm choosing it and then falling for the illusion of the I which only exists in the narrative creates the human condition and the suffering emotional psychological suffering Yes, the fish No, no, no, I mean it look isn't volition Abolition is just a belief in me and if if there is no sense of me and lots of people have no sense of me whether they come to these sort of meetings or not if there is no sense of me then there's nobody to claim authorship for what happens I think that's really all I really want to say Beautiful.

That's beautiful Yeah But you know I was thinking about what you were saying but we we get sort of bombarded by things like the new age movements that you can choose and you know um how to be bigger better and more powerful and you know they're selling You're not good enough as you are and you have to improve Yeah, you're the Because God made a mistake created you imperfect Yeah, yeah, yeah, and um there's just so much Marketing Marketing, yeah, yeah It's going on Yeah, and um It's Yeah, we just have to get like just get away from that just to feel what actually is Yeah, yeah Yeah Rather than chasing future in which you would finally deserve to be loved There are also some studies that have been done on people a person had epilepsy so bad that they had to cut the hemispheres of the brain in half and I thought that was an ideal opportunity to experiment what those parts of the brain were doing So they cover one eye and expose the other eye to a can of drink and then the person would get up and go and go and get a drink like a few minutes later So why'd you go and do it?

Oh, I'm thirsty There was no concept that that top side of the brain had seen the drink So what happens is and there's other studies where they've done where they do kind of like um games of chance and they study so they have to get a certain sequence Once I get the sequence the bell goes off or a light flashes or something But they've shown that it's I think I think something like you know a quarter of a second later After the decision has been made whether that's by the unconscious or the subconscious or whatever you want to say It just happens and then the language catches up Yes So even scientifically that narrative comes afterwards Yeah, it's a translation.

Bob calls it the translation I was just going to say that that's like, you know The only time I ever suffer is when I'm buying into this idea of a doer or me or any doer It happened the other day Just yesterday actually I was buying into the doer that there's a religion or religions There's people that are selling these religious ideas Like the new age one, but that's just one sample. I mean then there's Christians and all their beliefs that you know and then they You know, I think the thing that would irritate me also is uh, like when I was a kid. I remember My mother would talk about Catholics and those Catholics would go to confession And then the next minute right after confess Ah, they'll go do the sin again.

Hey, I confessed it. It makes it okay And then I got thinking oh, yeah, well this no free will no doership and then oh, yeah, it's fine. Just do it Hey, I'm not the doer anyway, you know, it's kind of the same thing, you know But then there's that that's the mind going You know, that's that's all Yeah, it's all Naming and claiming too Okay, so I could see also in my judgment here. I'm judging the judges and that's a judgment too When when you can see that okay, there's no doer nobody does anything this stuff apparently happens Okay Okay This beautiful Person We'll be calling a person Okay, Bob It's is It's just this one life essence Intelligence energy is an expression I've heard from Bob and it just explains everything.

It's so beautiful There's no personal doer of the the heart beating There's no personal doership of the firing of the synapses that allow the thoughts to occur and Enlightenment doesn't even exist without a believed in thought Same with the me same with the doer and the judging and and all that's happened when I got upset and I got like I don't know got thinking about judging the judger and and judging religions and all that that was applying into a doership That there's some some something doing or some them And then It doesn't exist without a thought It's just believed in thought and when it's seen that this believed in thought is just Just that like a birthday candle with smoke and then just it's nothing Takes a load off That's all Thank you, Bob.

Can you Um share with us the turning point where you You were saying about For years I thought it was me doing it and I was that person and this that and the other and there was a turning point And how did that turning point come about? Just from hearing something I heard a thousand times Somehow or other this time it rang a bell It was recognised in a different way than what it was before And I said I'll never be caught in the mind again I said to myself I walked out the door and I was But it wasn't the same It had been seen through When you see something that's false you can never truly believe it again Even though it might hang around the old habit pattern might hang around for a while Each time it came up you know you're going to see something that you know it's false you're going to continue to believe it So hang on a minute this is the same old crap And the more it's let go of the more room it comes for the truth to shine through And the more and more still going on today And there was a lot of rubbish that to get rid of in the first place So is this rubbish that you talk about that's our conditioning You call it our conditioning from our schools our newspapers our parents our anyone who talks to us it's almost like they're putting something you know from being a child growing up and Yeah well as children we learn words We learn the same old words we don't We don't investigate or look at them we take the word to be real because our parents told us Instead of investigating and seeing that the word's not the thing It tells in the bible in the beginning was the word The word was with God the word was God that's all that God is another label we put on all this Matter of state all things were made by him by the word that's true we've labeled everything There was nothing made that was made without the word So then we've got all these words we believe to be something real right now When when they tell us basic space the base of everything is space Can you postulate or think of anything that's outside of space What would it be in What is space?

It's no thing it's got no center no circumference no boundaries No you can't grasp it anywhere at all but you cannot negate it Well it's space like awareness Awareness without any concepts non conceptual Ever fresh presence awareness many ways they put the same thing But it's there before our eyes all the time and years and years and years it wasn't noticed Wasn't recognized And though I thought you know the search of good fellow was doing the right thing It probably helped it did help I suppose got me looking in another direction And the result As it says somewhere along the results of the elder tells you that go absolutely Absolutely That leaves you with absolute And there's nothing you can add to absolute it wouldn't be absolute if you could Nothing you can take away from it wouldn't be absolute And if it is absolute you just realize that simple fact Who can ever be superior to me If I am absolute Who can ever be inferior to me taking away those two things What would I want from anybody else he's better than me or not so good Or he's got no more Or blah blah blah blah If I'm absolute none of those things mean it And it goes along by itself Breathing happens heartbeats happening Hair and fingernails growing food's being digested Thoughts coming up and fearing and disappearing When the action is acquired the urge comes in the body and the action Everything's taken care as it always has It's like you said so the fear steps in We get fearful and think we must you know Yeah but if you're absolute who or what could you fear Just hang on if I'm absolute Who is there to fear what is there to fear this is the fear of me Nothing All those concepts and ideas of what do they call it Happiness, sadness, fear and all of this They lose their hold The meaning goes out of it Thank you Thank you Thank you I got a couple of comments from online community And Gioti says awareness or presence seems to be most intimate It's so easily accessible that doubts creep up about it That's beautiful It's so easy and so simple It's so natural It's so intimate that one could even say Oh how could that be so simple But doubt creeps in Creeps in Craps Yeah that's right Yeah but it is It is so simple and so obvious and so undeniable That couldn't be that right It couldn't But it is That's where the mystery That's where the juice That's where the beauty The radiance of life The miraculousness of life Comes from The fear and all the anxieties Comes from the mind From the thinking But here From the core Springs that fountain of youth Of joy Joy love of being And it is missed Because all the attention goes into blah blah blah I did it I shouldn't have You should have And we have another one from Ram Who beautifully just put it in one simple sentence What we just spoke before The difference between the human and the animal Is that the apparent choice Is translated by the mind as a thought I choose to do x y z etc Which gives the illusion of free will Beautiful beautiful one-liner That's uh That's uh That's uh And we have uh british julia say It's a story, all story.

I feel like spirituality gets a bad rap. Yet so many who find non-duality appear to find it via looking to be a better me. The marketing around illusion is everywhere and in all parts of a dream. That's why it feels so persistent. Anyway, you all look great sideways. Love from Bali. Yes, and we should remember that looking for the better me and all the self-help industry, all the improvement, multi-million dollars business is also the way life expresses. It is also the totality, singing its song, dancing its dance. It's not good or bad, it's just what's happening. Same as religions, same as mass murders, same as all of the expressions.

And then from an individual perspective, it looks unfair, it looks wrong, the judgment comes from the individual, me, it shouldn't have happened, blah, blah, blah. But from the perspective of life, of space, which expresses itself in that multitude of forms and feelings and ways, nothing's unfair or fair. It's completely beyond those concepts of good or bad. It is because it can. Because why not? Because in a thousand different ways, it just shows its omnipresence, omnipotence, its supreme creativity. Yeah, but the judgment is... Did you want to say something, Judge? Yeah, yeah. I was just going to say, you know, when it was pointed out that I wasn't the mind and I wasn't the body, and that whenever there was a story going on, a naming and claiming story, that it was about a me that didn't exist.

Now, that me can only live in the memory, because what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? So that me, illusory me, is an image I have about myself. And I have to think about it for it to be in conflict. I have to think about it to project it into the future or to recall the past. And if there's an identification with that image I have about myself, and there's a resistance to what is, then that resistance gets named and claimed as fear, self-pity, or self-consciousness, or inadequacy, or self-pity, or whatever. These are all little titles that I've been told that identify the feelings for a me.

So how I see that is all conflict arises when I'm identifying with a false image I have about myself. And that false image can only live in the past or the future. So basically, in a nutshell, if I'm in the past, that's going to cause conflict. If I'm in the future, that's going to cause conflict. You know, I'm not saying you don't use the little machine, which is the alleged mind or the narrator, to plan or to reflect on a joyful time. But it's not who I am. It's a little computer system that appears upon this presence that I am. And it's only when I identify as a separate entity or an image that I have about myself that causes a resistance to what is.

Anyway. Yeah. Free will has come up as a bit of a theme today. And it's still this illusion that the ego identity has. It actually has freedom, but it has no freedom at all. It's a very antithesis of freedom because freedom is a factor of being. You know, freedom is prior to thought or anything. And it's our true nature. Our true nature is freedom. Nothing to do about choice or, you know. You can't fight for it. You can only live for it. What do they say in the song? Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. Yes. Freedom is just. And I have a couple of comments from online community.

Mona says, so the content of experience doesn't matter, right? Some experience lots of challenges versus some face a smooth ride. Mind, separate self, would like to control the experience and manipulate it, which instead we need to let it be or let it do its dance. Yeah, that's beautifully said. Yes, you could conceptualize all sorts of injustice, you know. People getting sick or handicapped or accidents or losing everything or being poor. And others having a smooth ride. Although individual experience, even in that local state, it also has its extreme, the relative extremes. I've seen people, and I know of people, who would be suicidal because of things that one could call trivial.

But it is just, but yeah, ultimately, let it be and let it do its dance. And Bradley says, Todd, look at the direction of the parade of life is marching. Then runs around in front and pretends to be leading the parade. That's brilliant. That's an image. Yeah, that is a really good, that's a good image. That's what the taking credit mind is doing, you know. Things are happening and the mind takes credit. No, this is I. I did it. I chose it. Just what you said about disasters. Like just the difficult things that I've, if I look back, and the tricky, difficult moments that I've had.

They're also paired with silver linings and amazing things where people come with kindness. So the dark happens, but then equally something, it transforms as well. So it's in a way the difficulty, I wonder in the game of life, if the difficulty is just an opportunity for life to present a joy or a kindness or a treasure or a healing. You know, it has to go dark in order to, you know, it's part of that. Yeah. Without the darkness, you wouldn't know life. Yeah. I just think what Bar and Katie talks about, that everything that happens is benevolent and kind. Yeah, she says life is what happens for you, not to you.

Yes, for you. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanted to say something, Bob, because before the meeting started, Cole was talking, and he was talking about his school experience and how he was standing in front of the brick wall. And in that moment, we realized, and we just, we realized that's part, that's the flow also. He had to stand in front of the brick wall. And my problem has been very much feeling this is natural, this is the flow, this is not the flow. And in that moment, there was just the recognition, everything is the flow. So suicide, if that's meant to happen, is the flow. Yes.

Yes. Standing in front of the brick wall as a young child at school is the flow. And I have struggled with fully accepting that, that there's the darkness that happens, you know, the appearance of darkness that happens. Yeah. So if you want to say something to that, because I'm getting, I think I'm waking, it's taken me years, but I think I'm getting it, I'm waking up to seeing it. And for me, I think it's like a surrendering, it's surrender, it's surrendering my thought, my will daily. It's thy will, not my will. That will be done. That will all be done. But it's been huge to get this peace for my system.

Congratulations. Yay. Thank you. Thank you, beautiful. It's going to be more relaxing. I hope so. I hope so. Because there's been such a control and preference, subtle preference, and not, and wanting that the flow to be there the way I want it to be there and not see everything as the flow. Oh, you bought that new edge course. Which one? I don't know. Choice and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Manifesting. Yeah. No, not manifesting. No, no, it's true nature. It's like just to let go. It's not manifesting. No, no, no. To accept what it is. We were just joking. No, no, I'm joking. Yeah. The marketing.

Yeah. Go on, you want to play? But thank you to Cole, because I woke up with Cole. It just reminded me of what you were saying. It was about a song. It's, I think it's Rumi. Bob wants to talk. We've done this before. Yes. Go on. I'm sorry. Listen to this, because that's it also. That's it too. That's the flow. The song. Yes. Beyond ideas are right to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. There is a field. A beautiful field. Beyond ideas are right to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. There is a field. A beautiful field. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there.

Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. Beyond ideas are wrong to win. There is a field. There is a field. There is a field. There is a field. There is a field. And a beautiful field. You are a beautiful field. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there.

I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there.ivo yivoivoivoivoivo I'm the part I know so will an understanding or an explanation give you what you're looking for are we talking about an understanding are we talking about something, an idea something you can understand but if we are talking about something like that then can't we all just have different understandings can't we all just end up debating with each other my understanding is different to your understanding but obviously we're not all here because we have different understandings we recognise that there's something that's beyond understanding something that we can't debate with each other and and that's what we're all here to recognise has always been there and yeah it's a funny one when I first seemingly joined a group like this I thought oh no everyone's got this non-dual idea I have to try and see the world the way that they see it try and understand non-duality which would have just been another belief but there's obviously a reason we're all here because it's it's not non-duality it's not an understanding it's something that can't be denied that's here and yeah that's it yeah it's not as you say not understanding but there there is a natural resonation something innately within you here resonates with it and recognises it's it's well it's the truth yeah it's love yeah I can call it love love of being yeah sadhichitananda awareness of being it's love of being it really is the more the more kind of there is an anchoring in that awareness of presence the more joy and love springs out of it otherwise there is a destruction and things need attending but marinating in that bliss in that miracle of existence that radiance of life that brings love yeah yeah we hear the story and you say that we've all got different ideas and concepts but they're the way it expresses is different thoughts and ideas but there's still one of them the same thing it's non-dual no matter what one life one energy one intelligence and you are that life and I think the less there's a reliance on the story and the narration the more natural joy arises there's a more reliance on that on that spontaneity of that life itself that you are the less reliance on that habitual naming and claiming and it's there's a noticing of that there's a cognising of that yeah and a gratitude natural gratitude arises um um for the joy of being you know I'll find myself thinking oh we're such and such and all of a sudden it'll be just presented to me and I go thank you thank you presence thank you you know because I couldn't find it you know and all of a sudden it appears or you know I'll have an idea about something and then it'll be presented to me and I and I'll go well I definitely didn't do that so thank you so there's a there's a gratitude that just arises when the reliance is less on um that narration because that we identified with for so long you know um it becomes Bob used to always say to me everything's an opportunity to watch and um be warm towards that presence give it a wink and a nudge you know so yeah I always think of um Monty Python but anyway say no more say no more she's thinking about Monty Python nudge nudge wink wink say no more good idea less is good can you hold it for me sure um a lot of things going in the mind a lot of fear um uh just wanted to say that um all of this non-duality um that we're we're seeking we're sort of we're wanting yet there's no volition there's nothing we can do and it it can seem like there's this this world over here this this this perfect you know infinite intelligence the love the consciousness the connection this thing that we're we're seekers we're coming here for something and we can sort of forget that we actually we live in this world and this world is painful and it's full of emotions and fear like you know full of anger anxiety desires wishes relationships it's it's a lot of pain and a lot of struggle and we can we can forget to love that side of ourselves that that's that's not something not to be pushed aside that's something that's something wrong with it you know we all have I think we all do sense of inadequacy just we all there's something within each of us we're not good enough we are good enough everyone's that that's the whole point of non-duality that exactly what you are is good enough and if we separate this this who we actually how we actually experience life from the non-duality that is the illusion it is it is one thing together your emotions are real your thoughts are real your beliefs are real and and it's you know it's it's sort of true that on one level it's all an illusion because you know our thoughts just appear in our consciousness right and from conditioning so just to wrap up we we need to embrace and love ourselves for who we are and and it's nothing worse than the divine it's it's all one thing but like Kavita said we're going to that place beyond the field of right doing and wrong doing we're going to that place beyond this is the non-duality this is the only safe space that is not even a safe space do you know what I mean because we can always be in the black and white we can always be coming and going up and down hot and cold this is the life this is the duality but we're going to the field of beyond everything that's where the peace is that's the only place of freedom but who's going that's it we're already there but I was just referring to the song right you know this is the point of transcendence you know because we're always trying to fix this right and wrong hot and hot and cold and we cannot do it there's nobody actually to do it the only freedom is to drop it let it go we're already home we're already here that's the truth of it and also it's always been useful to me when there is an identification with an old pattern of the alleged me that creates anxiety or fear or self pity or resentment or any of those things to see that that's kind of surface stuff you know that's a habitual thing and what's that appearing on I couldn't identify a feeling or an emotion or a anxiety if there was not that presence and who's it happening to it's been a very useful tool who's it happening to me who's the me the me is a memory I have of myself what's wrong with right now if I'm not identifying with that memory of myself nothing and that sounds simplified but when you're actually in a you know really intense pattern it can be overwhelming but it is a useful tool who's it happening to me where is that me where does it begin and end is it a story is that story in the past or am I anxious projecting that image I have about myself into the future I must not be right here I must be in a story so that presence that is the only truth really that life itself love that presence is the only truth and the rest of it is a narration that appears upon it but I'm grateful I'm grateful to be able to see or there's a gratitude rather that that that that seeing is happening the seeing tasting touching smelling is happening and I can feel there's gratitude for feeling but yeah a lot of the surface stuff is an identification with an image I have about myself you've shifted from believing to expansion sorry you've shifted you know from believing in the narration so that's like really real and you're in that expansion of the absolute already you know as presence awareness and I think the title you mentioned Byron Katie before the loving what is is that sense of presence that includes everything you know that's what I think you were trying to say you were saying that all the difficulties that's all part of it it's not separate so it's loving what is pretty well just ask Bob a question so my understanding is every single human being that's ever been alive has experienced joyful emotions love curiosity and painful emotions mostly painful that's just a fact and and then we have the all the religions the spiritual teachings the mystics and the absolute reality of existence and non duality it's very hard to get there what's your thought on that if we constantly are struggling or trying to get there that's going to create a lot of tension where my understanding is it's better just to know that that's true that like for example what you're teaching is true what the Vedas teach is true what the mystics that is true doesn't mean you can experience that and be in that space of peace and love but just to know that is the truth even if you're living your life in pain and suffering to know that there is something wondrous out there yeah that's what I say know the truth and the truth will set you free you're free of the belief everything in this manifestation dualistic couldn't be day without night couldn't be silence without sound love without hate you know all it's all functions in the opposite and you couldn't know it unless it did but the opposites are not in opposition that's the thing when we make mistakes there are two ends of the one stick it'll be in this one at one moment go to the other the next but there couldn't be any manifestation at all if there was could there be darkness without light could there be winter without summer could there be you without me you and I are one but you're not experiencing sense of inadequacy and self pity and poor me story anymore do you you know suffering psychological suffering coming from the idea that I'm not good enough I'm at flow I'm the body I'm the mind I'm the separate identity which is pitiful and mortal they still might come up but they don't stay up stay there once you've investigated and seen the falseness of it you can't believe it again so if they come up the psychological suffering comes up for you how long does it stay I can't measure it a minute or a day because for most people it's a decade yeah it used to be a decade but it's not anymore I heard you use the word when you were talking about these beliefs these feelings they're real okay I just thought that this definition of real and true might come in handy for me when I came to understand and they're synonymous by the way reality and truth it's that which never changes so the feelings change don't they they come and they go right the beliefs how many beliefs were you born with and they just develop along the way and then sometimes you stop the belief of Santa Claus and you can so they appear really real like when you see a mirage off in the desert it looks really real until you get close enough and you see that it never was you know so whenever I think we're upset we're really upset what's happening is we're buying into a lie thinking it's true this is real okay and that's why when we know the truth the truth sets us free because what we're knowing now is just we just are we're just being and then now we're not narrating that's what's real when we're not narrating we're in reality I think okay you can correct me if I'm wrong here but when I'm seeing what I'm seeing without saying what it is or what it should be or what it was or what it could be I just I think it's as close as we're going to get to reality and truth it can't be you can't put truth in a box you know and it can't be spoken it can be pointed at with words but we can't we can only be it I don't think we can I have a couple of comments from the online community that I would like to include so Fai says that understanding comes within feelings words gets messy and Jane says wow and thank you are words that come up a lot here and British Julia says we are all here talking about nothing to ourselves you are that life thank you Bob what else do we need to discuss yes and Bob says we always think we have to find the words even the right words but in reality when we struggle for words the silence is being through the gaps we have to let it be until the gaps are wider and wider then no more gaps just being being as Rumi said language doesn't even make any sense and Ram says great to see a Metallica fan in the room and Vivek says nicely said we are already home non-duality is a concept or theory but is real the presence existence me presence is the proof non-duality is not a solution to worldly individual problems pains yeah non-duality is not a concept it's not the solution and it's really it's just a label which is representing something that is beyond concepts and labels but I would also like to say there's absolutely nothing unnatural in loving the pains and loving the story and loving the wounds and appreciating because as Kavisha was saying before you know without the darkness you wouldn't know light without the pain you wouldn't know pleasure without all those pairs of opposites there would be no manifestation so enjoying that human part that messy part of life in which there is involvement in which there is anxiety and all those things knowing that this is not your true nature that's just surface conditioning and then you can totally embrace that conditioning you can have heart for yourself the compassion for yourself all those things for yourself as a body because as who you are you are you are individed so you don't really need compassion you're all there is but for that little character that plays a role and that makes it all enveloping like again Kavisha was saying nothing is excluded nothing it's one it's non-dual it's one essence appearing as everything as pain as pleasure as freedom as bondage seeming as the whole content that's basically what you were saying love it all love it all that's you were saying the same yeah Bob started the whole meeting quoting the dream is not your problem your problem is that you like one part of it and not the other love all of it or none of it and the rest will be done for you although of course there is no you for who it will be done and there is no you to love or hate it's just a figure of speech it's just a pointer it either resonates or it doesn't if it doesn't don't worry about ripping it apart just grab one that does but it is a good pointer even though there is no you who can love or hate it really is a pointer beyond love and hate because if everything is equal there is nothing if you love everything there is no love because love has to differentiate from its opposite if you hate everything there is no hate because how would you know it's hate you have to know it on the background of its opposite so it really is go beyond the opposites the dream is not your problem just don't attach to the ideas of good or bad and find yourself as the space which is already not attached it's not that the you can drop the attachment recognize that you are already that that you are already beyond the attachment if there is a surface preferences the surface chasing pleasure the body will always chase pleasure and avoid pain that's what it does that's how it survives but you are the space you are the consciousness you are the space of seeing knowing in which those actions appear the thoughts appear the feelings recognize that this is what you are the sky that you are that you are speaking of dreaming I just wanted to mention about that I'm dreaming of tomorrow anybody who catches this on YouTube today and wants to join us tomorrow we're going to be on Zoom an hour early that's what I was going to say Australia just changed their clocks folks the rest of the world might not have but keep that in mind thank you thank you for the reminder and thank you everyone thanks everyone thanks Bob thanks Kat thank you