Notice the uneasiness. Sailor Bob and Co. 27 Aug 2023

Gilbert, Jane, Ross, Linda, Liz, Jane, Seren, Paula, Chris, Gordon, Kyle, Michael, Michael, Benanita, Anita, Julia, Adrian, Jane, Tony, D, D, Wayne, Lockie, Vic, Bob, and the other day. Good morning all. Good morning. Great to see you all here. Sitting in this room an hour or so ago, it was pretty quiet. Open but quiet. Then it began to fill up. And like a kettle, water might be cold when it starts, but as it warms up, it begins to bubble and boil. And it does. And you can see the energy in each and every one of you. It's changed the whole outlook in this room. And where's that energy coming from?

Can anybody negate their beingness? Can anyone say, I am not? Each one of us knows, I am. And when is that known? Is it known yesterday? Or last week? Or last year? Or is it what is in this obedience right now? Right now can you say you are not? You can't. You can't. Because that knowing is there. And that's what we talk about, what they call in Hinduism, Advaita. Non-duality. Non-duality translates means one without a second, not two. Only the one. Pointing to the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing, experiencing as everything. And they say only that. And isn't that the great mantra? I am that.

And don't you know that already? Because that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the room you're in. That's the space in the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. It is all that. But what have we done with it? We've discriminated with the word. We've learnt words and put labels on it which just obscure it. And so our true nature has been obscured by the belief that we are this separate entity. We are this individual. We are this person. And you wouldn't be here if you hadn't had a taste of that and knew there was a little bit more to it than what the scriptures might be.

Something reminds us there's got to be more to it than that. And you go a little bit further and start looking into it. Investigating. And the old saying is the false cannot stand up to investigation. So when you look into some of these beliefs we've taken on board, really look into them, they fall apart. Because they're not the truth. And that's the other scriptural saying. Know the truth. Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You're free from the belief that you are this separate entity, this individual, this person. Because non-duality, it's one without a second. So what are you?

Well what you can actually say is I am now. Can you say you were a moment ago? You can't anymore. Because that's gone. Can you say a moment in the future? No. No. But right now, anyone say they're not right, innocent, or anything? You realise you can't. You can't say that. But what would be there to be there? If that life essence wasn't there, you couldn't say anything at all. But you, that life or nowness, is there. And that's the great mantra, I am that. Don't forget it. And that's what happens, we're obscured. We've taken on the belief that we are this person, this separate entity, this individual.

And if you look at the word person, where does that come from? It comes from the Latin persona, the mask. Meaning we've got this mask called conceptual image. An image made of concepts of our so-called experiences that we take to believe that I am. I am Bob, the Australian, the good fella, or not so good. Or what other rubbishy concepts I've got about it. And believed in for years. Until it was recognised, a little bit of investigation, that it wasn't so. And there have been people down through the ages who recognise us. We'll point to the same thing. And you've had taste of that. Well why would you bother coming here?

Something moves you to look into it a bit further. An investigation you see it. Am I this body? Well, am I? Am I the coat? Am I the car? You say my coat? My car, my house. You know you're not the coat, the car or the house. Maybe you're not the body either. Well when you look into it you see my body. What's this? Investigate and have a look. What's this body made up of? Made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. All the elements. Take the air out of your body. How long did it last without the air? Take the water. You'd die of thirst.

Take the body temperature, the fire. Without any of those elements you wouldn't exist. All those elements would be broken down to summertime particles. Into pure energy. So this body is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy. What about this mind? We claim this thing called mind. My mind. Well if you are the mind show it to me. Can anyone show what the mind is? And you'll see there's no such thing as mind apart from thought or word. What's thought? Isn't thought sound when it comes out as word? But what's sound or word? Isn't it a vibration? Isn't it vibration a movement of energy? So is that what I call, I don't use the term God here because I get confused with that term.

Because we've got different ideas, all the different religions and traditions. I've got different ideas about what this God is. But it tells us clearly in the Bible, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word was God. That's all God is. A label, a word we put on it. All things were made by him, by the word. Isn't that so? All the things you see in this room you've got words of them. And there was nothing made that was made without the word. So all we're relying on is the word. How many words were you born with? And you look at it and you realise you weren't born with any words.

So you can't say you were born. People say I was born, had a past life and all this. How could you, when you had no words, to be able to tell you that? You couldn't. Well until you were a couple of years old. When the capacity of reasoning developed in you. As that little embryo fetus grew. And that capacity of reasoning you learnt words. You know that your parents fussing around you called you little Johnny or little Gene. Or little Billy. And you're really related to this I am thought. This I am thought. This I am thought tells you to stay with the I am-ness.

We think we've got to repeat I am. You don't. What does I am-ness mean? It means that sense of presence. The knowing that you are. Ask anybody who is, you'll say I am. It'll be I am so and so. I am this. You're related to the label or image we've taken. But actually, what are you? Well aren't you now? You're not a moment ago. That's gone. And if you don't recall it, it's gone forever. You're not a moment in the future. So when you look into time. You'll see past and future are concepts also. If you ask yourself what is wrong right now if I don't think about it.

You'll see that. What can you say about it without a thought? And Shakespeare told you 400 years ago. He says there is nothing either good or bad. But thinking makes it so. So it's the thinking that is the problem. That capacity of reasoning there, you couldn't have a single thought. Word. It's all been picked up along the way. And the word is not the thing. Take the word water. Try and drink the word. You can't drink the word. Try and swim in the word. See if you can drown in it. The word fire. Cook with it. Heat yourself with it. Burn yourself. When you look at this word I or me.

What is it? Am I this body? Well I just broke the body down into elements. Am I this mind? I just broke that down to sound. Voice or vibration. What must I be? I must be that which is. And you know that. Everybody knows that. Because you know that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the room the chair's in. That's the tree. That's the flower. That's the sky. Everything is that. But what have we done with it? We've discriminated it with the word. We've put labels on it. Now if you go into Myers to buy a shirt and you come out without the label you wouldn't be too happy would you?

That's what we've been doing. We've taken the label and missed out on the thing. But be what you are. Non-conceptual. Ever fresh. Presence awareness. Just this. Needs to be investigated. Have a look at. And seen into. How did you come about? You'll say I was born. But there's no one who can remember your birth. You might think you can. But how could you remember something when you had no words to say? Had no language at the time. You couldn't say I was born. To your learnt language. So how did you come about? Well we go back to your father and your mother because Nisargadatta tells you, he says there's only life.

And he says there's nobody who lives a life. Now we're all bodies in this room. But there's nobody who is living in that life. Nobody. That's just a pattern shape and form. And it's the way it's expressing. Life lives on life he says. And out of life more life comes. Well isn't that so? Well go back and look at your father. That animating essence you call your father. Enabled in that pattern through the breathing and the hard breathing and the life that's in it. And the food and the little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. Just a blob of goo.

Nothing. But that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in your mother. That animating life essence, that intelligence in your mother. Enabled in that pattern. Another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form. That ovum attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It knew what to do. And the sperm swam to the ovum knowing what to do. It knew where to go and what to do. It's suffused with intelligence. Life. It's knowing. And when those two came together the little embryo, the little fetus formed. Which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then?

You can't say you were doing anything because you had no words or anything. But the life was there. And it was growing, beating your heart, growing your hair and fingernails, digesting your food. Rolling the earth around the sun, so as the seasons are coming to go. The ties to come in and out. All life. All pattern expressing. And all these pattern shapes and forms. But the patterns, shapes and forms are only appearance. Which they tell you again in the scripture. But they tell you it is a phenomenal manifestation. A definition made up of phenomena. The dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be.

So it's all here appearing to be so. It's seeming very real, isn't it? That you go to sleep at night and you dream a dream. In the dream you're in the world. You can be in the car, you can be in the sea, you can be in a plane, you can be in the bed. You can be anywhere at all. All sorts of antitictions are going on in that dream. See the body taking a part in them and all the activities going on. When you wake up, where does it all go? It all disappears. It disappears. It just appeared to be so. It wasn't real.

But what you don't realise. We wake up to this dream. Because this dream continues from where it left off last night. So the trees, the flowers, the house, the room you're in are still there. They don't disappear. But in the dream they do. So this dream seems more real than the sleep dream. But in Sarketa tells you that. He says you are dreaming a dream you call the world. He said stop looking for ways out. That's what we do. We try to get out of this dream. We don't like it. It's unhappy. It's sadness. It's fearful. Because we're related. Relationship, relativity is dualism. Without any relationship you come back to the essence of space.

All the one essence. Only that. You are dreaming a dream you call the world. He says stop looking the ways out. The dream's not your concern. And we make it our concern, don't we? We're locked into the dream. And believe it. This is good. He says your concern is your love one part of the dream and not the other. In doing that what have we done? We've divided it. The good and bad. He says love all of it. Or none of it. And this is the beautiful part. And he says the rest will be done for you. That means that life and essence that you are will take you where you've got to go.

What have you done about growing yourself? Hasn't it brought you into existence? Hasn't it grown into the pattern, shape and form you are now? Hasn't it brought all the thoughts, feelings and emotions that are going on in it? What have you done about any of that? You think you've learned this and picked up that. But how would you be able to think that if that life wasn't there? So it's all functioning naturally. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that.

And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. And you can't do that. But how would you be able to think that if that life wasn't there? So it's all functioning naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously. And that is what I am. I am that. How does that work? They say it's all transient.

Transient means it's constantly changing. And isn't that same true? You think you've got the same body you walked into this room with? You haven't. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now and being replaced. What are you doing about that? Nothing. But it's happening. Transient constantly changing. We don't realize that. And we take this constant concept or idea we've got about ourselves and keep relating to that. And getting not a true picture, but a false image of what we believe ourselves to be. And yet the scriptural signs are, know the truth. And it's the truth that will set you free. And the only thing you can be free from is the belief that you are not that.

Now look up your dictionary definition of belief. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. I mean, we haven't reasoned it out. We haven't looked into it. We've just taken it for granted. And isn't that so? When your parents tell you, little Johnny or your little Billy, I am little Billy. And I am so and so. Somebody asks you who you are, you'll immediately say that. Not recognize that that sense of presence is changing. It's not what you are. We take it to be real. And so keep relating to it. Relationship or relativity. Dualism. There's no, absolutely no duality in non-duality. That's why they call it one without a second.

Not two. And we get all these concepts and ideas which continue to obscure it. What do they tell us? Detach. Detach from it. Just relax into the beingness. Not into the conceptual image you have. I've got to do this or I might be that. I've got to change or I don't like. I'll do that. Question the idea of time. Is there a past if you don't think about it? And you can't say there's a past without a thought. Is there a future? You can't say there's a future without a thought. So time is a mental concept. And it's always this immediacy which I pointed out before and continually pointing out.

There is only that. And they say be what you are. Not what you think you are. Or what you'd like to be. You are. All the changes that have come about in that body. Did you manufacture them? Did you do them? Or are they happening naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously? Did you think about that breath you just took? No. What's your next thought going to be? You realise you can't say what your next thought is going to be. But then the thought will come up, I think. I think this thought. And what do you believe? You believe, as soon as you say I think, you form the subject of a thinker.

It's me that is thinking this thought. Now have a look at that. The thinker has become the subject. And what I'm thinking has become the object. So there's a division. Subject, object. Thinker and thought. As part of the seer. I see. I feel. I taste. I touch. I smell. I'm anxious. I'm unhappy. I'm happy. All related to the believed in entity. This I. What is I? A word. A concept. What does it represent? That I am-ness. When the sargetist says stay in the am-ness. He's saying stay with the thought. Saying what it means. Isn't it that sense of presence? The very knowing that you are right now.

You can say I am. I am now. Negate it if you can. You realize you can't. But you see it's obscured isn't it? It's obscured because we've taken on all these concepts. Learned these words and that. Shakespeare told you that 400 years ago. And he says there's nothing either good or bad. But thinking makes it so. Have a look at the way you think. You read in the past. The future. You see the present. The painful. Happy. Sad. Loving. Hating. Positive. Innovative. High. Low. Far. Near. Always in the dualistic opposites. And that's our problem. We divide and think they are opposite. But it's two ends of the one stick.

Or two sides of the one coin. Or two ends of the seesaw. In the middle where it's ballast out. And where it's even. But it's not divided. Because as they say. It's only one. But we've divided into good and bad. Pleasant and painful. Me and other. And that division. All our psychological suffering comes about. For it's only me that can be unhappy. It's only me that can be anxious. Only me that can be fearful. And all this jealous. Envious. All this psychological suffering that comes about. Happens to me. So that reason. You realise that. Me is the cause. This believed in me is the cause.

Of all my psychological suffering. And the effects are. Of that cause. The anxiety. Guilt. Shame. Remorse. Fear. Unhappiness. Anger. All the effects of the cause. Cause and effect. Isn't that what they call so-called karma? Talk about your karma. This, that and the other. It's all cause and effect. But what would happen. If you investigated the cause me. And had a look. Is this me really true? Does it exist? Is there a separate entity called me? When you look into me. And see me is only a concept. And look at it again. Can there be an effect. If it's not related to that concept. Well there can't be.

An effect. If you're not relating it to the cause. If the cause is a fiction. How can you be. Unhappy if you're not believing in that fiction. Seeing everything as it is. So you can be rid of all these fears. Anxiety and stresses. And it is so. And ask yourself again. Look at it again. What is wrong with right now? If I don't think about it. Thoughts in obeisance for a moment. I can't say it is. Can't say it isn't. Can't say anything about it at all. But the heart's still beating. Here and fingernails are still growing. Food's being digested. Earth rolling around the sun.

Seasons coming and going. Life. Life. Life is full. Life is going on. And what is wrong with that life? Left as it is. It's continually fulfilling itself. Expressing. As life. It's self. Recognize. Recognize. It's been cognized. You know it. Cognizing is another term for knowing. You know it. And the Buddha called it a cognizing emptiness. Look at that then. It's not that we cognize the emptiness. But the emptiness itself. This room that is empty. All appearances are appearing. And even the room itself. Is an appearance. It's all happening in space. A cognizing emptiness. And he made the statement then. Emptiness is form. Turned around the other way and said.

The forms. Can be nothing other than the emptiness. He's telling you what you are. You are that emptiness. That pure intelligence. That pure life. Which is patterning. Shaping and falling. As these particular patterns. Bodies. And everything in it. And we take an appearance. To be real. And suffer accordingly. When you recognize. And the sargetown says. You are the life. You know. There's a sense of well-being. Being well. Not negatively. There's nothing. Just that there's nothing wrong anymore. Nothing is wrong. Well-being. Sense of joy. A joyousness. A happiness. Because you're not relating to some conceptual image. Which brings up the fear. The anxiety. The stress. The guilt.

The shame and more. All the activities. Everything is just as it is. Another term for what is. Unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. Uncorrected. No preference. No partiality. No comparison. Isn't that so? Test it out. Nobody. Can do it for you. That's the important thing. Why is it that nobody can do it for you? Because there is nobody. Nobody apart from that one intelligence entity. That one life. And when you investigate the long lines before two. You see you can't separate yourself from that side. So they call it being. That's it and the end of knowing. And loving to be. Anyone who's not being right now. And you know for certain.

No I'm being. Anyone who's unconscious or unaware. No I'm conscious. I'm not unaware. Do I want to be dead right now? No. I'm happy to be. No. No. So what are you searching for? It's there. Right now. And it's everything. And just to see that. Without all the chatter stops on. Just chops for a moment. And say what's so great about this? Because you know. But settle with it for a while. Let it start to resonate. Let it express itself. And as it goes along, there's only one thing that has happened. It can only become clearer because when you look through and see the beliefs as false, are you going to cling to them anymore?

As Wei Wei told you a few thousand years ago, whenever it was, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say, everything you do, and everything you see and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. And that's true. And they tell you that in the scriptures. There is only one self, not a personal self. It's what they call the Atman or Godself. It's the one self that's patting, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. And you and I and everything else is that. That is all there is. So that's the end of the day. Do you have any questions? You can get into it.

Where are you, Kat? You're going to have to take over now. You could give us a little bit more. Well, I think. Yeah, it's not even half an hour, darling. Another few minutes. More, more, we're still not satisfied. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us maybe about, you know, how the non-duality of seeing gets divided into seer and seen by the mind. Or non-duality of experiencing. Well, as I say. Yeah. Thinking's happened. You don't know what your next thought is. The thought comes up, I think. What are you related to? A thinker. Me. I am the thinker. And the thinker's become the subject. I'm thinking this thought. What's the thought?

The thought has become the object. We're not realising that it's just the thinking. We've now divided it into subject-object, dualism. But can there be a thinker without thinking? Have a look at it. And can there be the thought without thinking? The thought is the thing. So there is seeing. The thought I see. Can the thought I see see? Well, the thought can't see. The seeing's happening through the eye. But the eye's not telling you I see. Hearing. Hearing's happening through the ear. But the ear's not saying listen to this or listen to that. Feel. The thought, the feeling, the anger or whatever it is. And not saying I am this or I am that.

So there's seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, feeling. The ing on it is something that's going on right now. When it's divided into I see, I think, I feel, you're relating it to the conceptual image. Which, when we started to reason, and our parents told you little Johnny, instead of investigating, we took it on board. I am little belly or little Johnny, whatever your name might be. And you go to school and you learn more. And it's always about this I or me. Continue to separate it. The sense of separation comes about and becomes very strong. But there is no separation at all. As, I think it was Moses or somebody on the mountain that pointed it out years ago.

He's looking after the Jewish people. They're all, a crowd of them he's managed and looking after. And they get into trouble. They're playing up. They're not living properly. So he says, I've got to do something about this. And he sits on the mountain and starts looking into it. And it comes to him then. These tablets, these commandments. So he sets them up and he says, I'll go back and show these to the people. If they follow these, they'll become better behaved. And he says, what am I going to tell them? They're not going to believe me. I can't tell them either. And it came to him there and then.

Who sent you? And it came to him there and then. I am sent you. And what did he do? He realized, well, I am that I am. And when you realize that you are that I am-ness or a sense of presence instead of the person. See the limitations and boundaries you put upon ourselves with this belief in separation. How we've shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit, as they say. Shut ourselves off. And when we shut off from that sunlight, what is it? It's darkness. It's light. Does the sun know anything about darkness or light? It doesn't. This end of the earth is facing towards the sun right now in its light.

The other end of the earth is facing away. It's dark. Are they split? Are they divided? No. Two ends of the one stick. And as it goes left as it is, it'll turn around. And the sun will be facing, the earth will be facing the sun again. It will be light again. And that's the same with our thoughts. Instead of dividing, liking the good and wanting the bad. Trying to force it out. Leave it as it is. And it comes around of itself. As you know. You're not always unhappy. But we are more unhappy than what we had happy. Because now we've taken on this word and believed in the word and keep going back to it.

And resonating with it. Instead of leaving it as it is so it can change. But this world is transient. It's constantly changing. There is nothing static about it at all. And when you look into time you'll see that. Time is a mental concept. Is there a past if I don't think about it? Pause the thought for a moment and see what you can say without a thought. Can't say anything. The next thought will come up and appear. Is there a future? If I don't think about it. I can anticipate and imagine what I'm going to do after I finish this talk or after I move out from there.

But it won't be the future. It will be anticipation and imagination. And the future will be right now. The same as the past is right now. And you see that time is just a mental concept. How does that work? Well something comes up and you like it. Now naturally we don't want the things we like to go away. Not realise that everything is transient. It's constantly changing. No matter how much you try to hold it, it's going to move away. We don't want it to go. So what do we do? We try to keep it there. In trying to keep it there, what are you doing?

You're resisting it from going. What's resistance? If you are resisting something, you're in conflict with it. Resistance is conflict. And conflict makes you unhappy, uneasiness, depressed, guilty, shame, anxious. That's all resistance. Something comes up and you do like. Or you don't like. I just did like before. What you do like. Oh I'm not good enough. I shouldn't be thinking like this. I don't like this thought. So what do you do? You try to get rid of it. So you resist that one from staying there. Again conflict and disease. That's what conflict is. Uneasiness. Another term for uneasiness is disease. We're not at ease anymore. Now this conflict is constantly going on.

Because we relate to it. What happens if it's left as it is? Just like what are we doing about rolling the earth around the sun? Nothing. But it's changing constantly. You know it. Coming to the end of winter now. It'll soon warm up. And change again. Doing nothing about it. Just leaving everything as it is. And it happens by itself. What did you do to take that breath you just took? What did you do to expand and contract your heart? What did you do about your next thought? You can't tell me what your next thought is. Thought comes up. See how spontaneous and natural and effortless life is.

And as Nesargata says life lives on life. And out of life more life comes. You came for the life of your parents. Your parents came for the life of their parents. Where did it begin? Well they go back to the tale in the Bible about Adam and Eve. In the Garden of Eden in paradise. Everything is going smoothly. And they go okay what happened? They ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What does that mean? They learnt words. As soon as they learnt words, good and evil, they're kicked out of paradise. And back in the world. They realise the words not the thing.

And the words not the thing you can get out of it. They don't have to be locked into it. Lots of changes come about in this pattern. It's not like it used to be. And naturally, at the start of, it was locked into the belief that I was this person. But this argument tells it clearly and loudly, the person is not reality. Coming from a persona, a mask. A mask is a conceptual image which obscures our true nature. You're obscuring your face, you're obscuring your wholeness if you put a mask over it. Take the mask off and be what you are. And that's it this time.

Not that you really earned them, but there you go. Well, you're all here, you can all contribute to it, so don't hesitate to do so. That's actually what makes him the most happy. If he can hear his own pointers repeated by someone who actually really hears it. I mean, the hearing it from the heart rather than just repeating words from the mind. If something resonates, something touches your heart, something really feels true, even if you say it out loud, it doesn't matter how it comes, the energy will be right. It will help others in the room too. And we have no questions from the online community.

So the mic goes up to you and we hope that you can even bring up whatever stood out in that whole introduction. If not, of course, questions or your own insights. Anything that comes from here rather than from logic. But if the logic stands in a way, yeah, that will be sorted also. What stood out for me was the point, were the pointers about the me. And, you know, it took so long for that to resonate in the heart rather than the mind trying to figure it out. It took such a long time. And so how it simply feels to me is when there's any resistance, when there's any dis-ease, I must be in the past.

If I'm in the past or the future, I must be in the me. So whenever there's any resistance, I see that I'm in a story. I'm in a story about me. And that story lives in time, which is also a concept. And that's what the resistance is. So when that drops, there's an aha moment, you know. And there's just an ease of being. But it took a long, long time for that to be seen quickly. For that to be seen quickly. But that pointer is the pointer that resonates with me the most. Does it matter that it took a long, long time? No, no. That's the beauty of it.

It doesn't matter. Yeah, the moment it strikes home and it lands, the time disappears. The past disappears. It feels like somebody else's past life. It doesn't matter. Whether it takes a year or three years or a lifetime, it just doesn't matter. What matters is this moment now. And in this moment now, the whole past gets created and projected back. So this is the reality. If it clicks now, that's it. Thank you, Bob. You connected me with being a baby. And the baby's hair grows and nails grow and skin, you know. That's beautiful to take me back to that moment. And remember that now. Good. Beautiful.

Thank you. Hi, Bob. Hi. You know, I really like the pointer about no separation today. That was resonating a lot. So I'm sitting here finding it hard to separate things. And so it's just like this wholeness, this nourishing wholeness without the mind trying to, I mean, I can see separate forms, but the mind's not trying to label it or separate it. And strangely in that things are clearer as well. Yeah. Clouds drop away and the sky's clear without the clouds. Beautiful. Sometimes there's thoughts about the thoughts about the thoughts. True. And so what... There's no look at the sometimes. Take that away. There you go.

You know what came up today, what really resonated today was just the, you know, if there's no resistance to them, you know, then who gives a crap? I don't know. There's no problem with it, but I just liked that today. It was a nice reminder. No doer of the thinking anyway, so. There you go. Beautiful. The thing that hit me again today was the fact that there's seeing happening, there's hearing happening, there's, you know, speaking happening, but none of it is us necessarily. You know, none of it is, it's occurring through this channel, right? Yeah. And it's the ownership of, that's me thinking or me seeing or me hearing.

Yeah, that's really good. And the other thing I just want to point out, which will really help trip me quite strongly, was the fact that there can be nowhere, nothing else except right now. There can never be anything else except right now. And if there's no time, there cannot be any distance. Because distance suggests time. And if there's no distance and no time, then who are all of us? We're all the same. We're the one. There's no distance. No time. No separation. Yeah, that all. It's a word that divides too. Yeah. So it's like without a word, can you find where there's separation? Yeah. Yeah.

Beautiful. Yeah, when you investigate that and say, what are we all in now? Anyone who's outside of space? We're all sitting in space. This room is in space. Does space have any beginning to it? Can you find a point where space begins? You can't. Because there's no boundaries. Does it have any boundaries or limitations? It doesn't. Can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space? It couldn't. What would it be in? Other worlds or other continents? They'd have to be in something. Naturally, they've got to be in space. Space is no thing. No thing at all. Just appears to be something.

Nothing. And the content of space, can something come from nothing? It can't. So you and I and everything else are no thing. All appearing as something. But you are the space-like awareness. The one essence that has the capacity of manner. Of everything appearing, all the different pattern, shapes and forms in all its diversity, appearing in space. But they are nothing but that cognising emptiness. Space is empty. Just like in a dream. Yes. But it appears real, it appears solid. If you know the truth about it, you're free of that belief. And let it do as it does. And it brought you into existence. It's living you.

And it takes you where you've got to go. And it does. And it really is like a dream. Because at night, when you dream, there is a space, so-called mind space. Or the dreaming mind. In which everything gets created out of nothing. Of thin air. It's just a mirage. And it feels real. And it feels like there is someone walking or running. Or interacting or talking. While the body is lying flat on bed. With the eyes closed. And there is seeing happening. Hearing happening. And there is not even a vehicle of that physical body used for it. For seeing, hearing happening. And it's all coming.

Seems like there is something coming out of nothing. But when you wake up, you realize that all of it was nothing. And it is nothing. It's just a mirage. It's just a dream. And so it is right here, right now. And we say nothing. We think we're talking about a vacuum or a void. It's not. No thing. It means it hasn't got any pattern, shape or form. It just appears to be pattern, shapes or form. But there's still no thing. Nothing with the potential of everything. Out of this nothing. The whole universe. Moment to moment. Every thought is a new universe. It just springs out.

The totality. The everythingness. I think we have some comments from the online community. And yes, that is our British Julia. Thank you for the clarity. I wish I was going to lunch with you all. Oh yeah, that would be lovely if we have you again. And Anastasia says, good morning everyone. I loved being among all last week in person. I'm sitting in I'm being lived every day this week. It has shifted my experience. That was just so beautiful, Anastasia. How you embraced it in just one, really one talk. That was so beautiful. And Lisa sent a heart. And British Julia says, great to see a few of my friends in here now.

So the message spreads. And yes, Lisa sent a heart to that one too. And Dan says, it is beautiful seeing life celebrating itself here together. That's exactly what's happening. Isn't it gorgeous? Thank you. Yeah, the sad story of me. The sad, sad story of me. It's like a self-image that's been buried in a box. Deep in the ground. And there's hope that someone's going to come and let me out of this box. And that's a sad story. Because there's no one that's going to dig it up. Or there's no one that can do the investigation except ourself. So really it's down to not the me, but me.

The consciousness itself has to investigate. So, you know, depression, the very word means something is being squashed down. I'm depressed. Well, investigate. Who is depressed? Who is sad? Who is indulging in the story and getting some weird kind of pleasure out of it? Somebody once said to me, if you're not having fun, what's the point, you know? So there must be some sort of payback for the indulging in self-centred activity. But if you find out who it is that's getting the payback, it's got to be a me. And that's a picture. So, are you buried alive in the box with your sad story of me?

Stop it. A little light of consciousness. Right now. Yeah, stop it. Stop it. I'm going to tell you two words. Stop it. Oh, should I write them down? No, it's only two words. Stop it. That's beautiful. That's a beautiful play with one of Bob's favorite jokes by Paul. Was he there? Gosh. No, no. It's a TV show. Bob Newhart. Bob Newhart. Bob Newhart. Bob Newhart, yes. And that's a beautiful play Gilbert made with being buried alive with the book in a box. And there is no one there in the box, but the impression or the feeling is such. And Bob has another analogy about building a cage, cage of concepts around that seeming self-centered.

That there is a me and I have this cage of concepts. I am a body. I am human body. I am a female human body. And I had this past and I had this trauma and I had this abuse and this happened to me. And my future is such. And I have this friends and this enemies and this values and this preferences. And there is someone there. And that cage of concepts is built around that someone. And as Gilbert said, and that's really, really, really can't be stressed enough. No one can give you an answer, conceptual answer to the life and everything. Unless you get the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy and say it is 42, the stop on which you get off to see Bob.

But really, the answer or rather the extinguishing of all questions comes from direct look. You do have to look by yourself. And of course, there is no you to look. That's a paradox of pointing. But yes, the looking has to come from the heart, not from the mind looking out there. But just really seeing, is there a cage? What are those concepts? Aren't they just passing phenomena? And can you see how, you know, it feels like the concept is rigid. The cage is real, like a box and you bury it in it. I'm the body. End of story. I can't actually undo it. This is so solid.

And I remember Julia saying, oh, punching the body. Yes, real. Really? I mean, it's enough to just stop pausing the thinking for one moment. And experiencing directly. In direct experiencing. Is there even a body? There may be a set of sensations going on. But without the thought. Can you even call it a body? Can you even put a shape or size on it? Or sex or nationality? Nothing can happen in direct experience. You need to employ the imagination and the memory to actually divide and separate yourself from the experiencing. There is a field of experiencing. Within that field of experiencing, there are bodily sensations. And there are seeming objects in seeing.

There are seeming objects in hearing. But you need the concept to make yourself a subject seeing those objects. You need the thought to actually bring that separation. Without the thought. Without the mind. Without that seeming cage of concept. Or act of believing and actualizing by the belief. This cage of concept. Is it even there? It is not. Anyone right in this moment can answer the question which Bob quoted. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Or just push aside. Ignore that thinking a little bit. Bring the attention back home. To where it streams from. To nowhere really. Just relax. Relax the attention.

Just like we have the laser focused vision. Or we have the relaxed peripheral vision. Where nothing. The attention doesn't really go like laser sharp anywhere. It's not the torchlight. It's just the relaxed. Same with the attention. Without that attention actualizing the image. The self-center. Is it even there? Is the past if we don't think about it? Is there a childhood of births if we don't think about it? Well we may say it is. But it is only in the concepts. In the imagination. It really isn't in the direct experience. And again the same as in the dream. You are dreaming. That you are going somewhere.

Meeting someone. And in that dream there is already presumed. That that someone was born at some times. And they had parents. And they ate food. But is the past. Is the food of the parents in the dream. Are they experienced? No. They are just a presumption. The whole past is the content of this moment. Projected out as if it was real. And believed to be real. Because it makes the game. It ups the game. It makes the play of Maya. So much more convincing and attractive. And how could you ever awaken from the dream. If you weren't dreaming. So you can see the dream for what it is.

Enjoy it to the fullest. But no. It is just a dream. It is a dreaming going on. And the awakening from the dream. Is inevitable when the body drops dead. But awakening to the dream. Like Bob often quotes Nisargadatta. Realizing it for what it is. And suddenly just the investment in the dream. The importance. How important. How significant everything is. How personal everything. And heavy everything is. That one is going to relax. And it doesn't mean that the painful situations won't happen. Or the responses of sadness or anger or joy won't happen. Everything is happening. Just like for the sky. There are clouds. Dark clouds happening for the sky.

There are beautiful cumulus humulus clouds happening for the sky. There are no clouds happening for the sky. You are that sky. But neither of them are actually. How you say it. Glute or stitched to the sky. Like no thought is stitched to the skull anywhere. So they are free to go. Just like for the. For our Zen masters cats around here. They have all sorts of responses. They have. You know. They get hungry. They get needy. They want to cuddle. They want to have a little fight. They want to have a little fight. Cuddling with Jane. That's so cute. Cat mentioned. Go on. Go on.

Yeah. No, yeah. Go on. Cat mentioned a couple of times. Imagination. That's the thing needs looking at too. Nothing can trouble it. Mr. Sargeter says nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Break it down to imagine. or image in. And isn't that what we're doing? We're creating mental or conceptual images and taking them to be real. You look in the mirror, what do you see? You see an image or a reflection. Now, it appears to be real. But go up to the mirror and try and get an image out of the mirror. You can't. Because though it appears to be there, it's not there.

It's seemingly so. And that's the same with our thoughts. We've got all these mental or conceptual images that we take to be real, investigate them, and see the image is not as it appears to be. And if you see it through the image, what you must be left with, you must be that. You can't say, you break a mirror, you can't get an image out of it. So you can't say it's not there because it appears to be there. Try and grab it, you can't say it is there. So it is and it is not just the same as this manifestation. It appears to be real.

It appears to go into it. When you investigate it, as they say, the false cannot stand up to investigation. It'll fall apart. If it falls apart, what must you be left with? The truth. They say, no, the truth. It's the truth that will free you. Only that. Beautiful. Bob mentioned emptiness is form, and form is emptiness. And seemingly some time ago, I started to see this emptiness. And I could never work out what was actually going on. The mind couldn't work out what was actually being seen and why it was so different when everything apparently appeared just the same. But I was reading a book the other day and one of the Zen patriarchs had written a piece of prose and there were just a couple of lines in it and it was to see clearly and deeply.

and it was that depth of seeing that suddenly was realised that was the clue. So you're seeing the emptiness and the fullness of everything at the same time. And it just seemed to be the key to this conundrum of emptiness and fullness and form and emptiness. So that's what struck me in Bob's talk this morning. That's so too, Ross. Because you go outside and on a clear night there's a pool of water there. A deep pool of still water. Bright, moonlit night. Where does the moon appear? Deeply in the water. Not on the appears to be as you say, deep. Yeah. And everything that appears now which is everything is a projection of the mind.

A reflection of the mind. Yeah. It is important. What just came up for me then is like the mind's quiet, there's no thoughts going on or anything like that and there's an awareness just sitting here that is aware without any thoughts or mind activity at all. it's registering everything it's going on there's a deep knowing or just all the functions is there and it's quiet and it's just I don't know and it gets absorbed without someone needing to absorb it or anything. I also like something about Bob's talking about the earth changing like the light to dark and just how appearances will just things will just change on their own things will just shift there's no one there sort of doing it so sometimes with the thoughts they're turning attention to the thoughts just fuels it more but back in the space like that stuff will just evolve and change on its own and come and go and when we're taking that to be what I am and identifying with that that is appearing yeah so I don't know it's a beautiful journey and thank you Bob and Kat thank you beautiful Mitra your turn so I mean I asked this question from that place that you know I'm a lot more quote in my mind than what I hear people talk here but I try from that place that I am to actually sit and investigate what you said like am I because it's even from this place that I haven't really experienced all of the what you talked or other people hasn't been my experience but I'm very curious about you know it's very clear that there is nothing here and it's been for a while and I ask so if there is nothing here why I'm so identified still with you know what I think I am so I actually sat and you know I mean the answer was probably I sitting I I think I see I'm very much identified with this body like I still exist in this body even though I never can find myself anywhere in this body so I sat and couple of times for a long like let's say more than an hour and I thought well if I'm in this body so where is it like and then I felt like all of my body like all the boundaries dissolved and kind of it was very clear that you know I'm not this body but again I still very much I don't know how to do that investigation basically because I'm still identified even though I don't you didn't know how to do it but you were doing it yeah you didn't have to know how to do it it was still happening yeah and I wanted to actually ask you are you sure that you are not experiencing what other people in the room are experiencing how do you know you know when I'm describing my experience and there is some mind faculty which compares my description with your description and description is different and that doesn't mean that the experience is different see the experience of being is no different in anyone not even in a cat and dog because it doesn't have characteristics so your experience of being is exactly the same as everyone else's but the other the personal experiences you know like you might taste the same orange as I taste and I like it and you don't like it yes the experience is different you see this is the personalized part but this is not what we are talking about it is about the pure experiencing within that experiencing somebody might be hot somebody might be cold and they will be describing it in different words somebody may say I'm cold and for you it means they are shaking and for them it means they just slightly you is never described so the assumption that whatever everyone shares is not what you are experiencing it might not be true maybe I mean if you open up to the possibility that we are all describing the very same thing then maybe what you hear from others instead of saying oh no no I don't feel it this way I don't experience it this way maybe you say ah that's the way to simply but they put it this way why not everyone what we are talking about everyone knows you know that you exist for sure for certain for certain well I think I exist in this body that's the problem well it doesn't matter you know that you exist this body is a story that you put on existence you see everyone knows that they exist it's the awareness of presence now on that screen of awareness of presence there is a story I exist as a person I exist as a body I exist as my traumatized mind I exist as blah blah blah I exist is true the rest is mind caca the rest is bullshit I exist I am that's the reality I am this that that that that and the other is nonsense how and why how could you possibly know what you know are you outside of the body to see that you are a body well if so you are this not this so I am the mind or I am identified as a person I am a little creature that how do you know that where are you measuring it from obviously to objectify yourself you have to be a subject somewhere else you can see that there is absolutely no way that you could ever know what you are because to know what you are to objectify yourself you have to be a subject somewhere else so if you actually rest with the certainty that you know that you are you know that you are that you know for sure you can't deny that you are you are end of story but what you are is absolute unresolvable mystery which will never ever be objectify yourself the moment you do that you stop being a subject Bob doesn't know what he is he knows that he is Gilbert I no one actually unless they believe that they know what they are that's just a belief that's a bullshit story everyone knows that they are you said it was nothing you experienced nothing well why didn't you stay there instead of looking for something maybe you are the nothing the no thing see where that takes you sit with it for a while see what comes up there and you see the identity will come on top of it it will come and say oh yeah but now I'm identified again what is it it is a thought push it aside oh yeah but now I'm still not there I'm not getting it I have to practice more sit more to become something thought push it aside don't believe a thought thought is just a translation of some sort of a sensations going in the body stay with the sensation the thought can say oh yeah I have anxiety attack push it aside stay with the sensation yeah but I feel the boundaries of the body no you don't you just feel sensation the thought is the illusion is the dream the present experiencing seeing hearing tasting touching smelling that's the content of the knowing but the knowing principle is not touched by any of the content right I do that but when you say I stay with the feeling there is nothing how do you stay with nothing try and get away from it try and get away try and get away try and get away from that sense of being try not to be just try it for a moment for just five seconds try not to exist it's not possible exactly exactly so what obscures it if you can't negate it you must be it if you can't negate it you must be it you must be the nothing who was I think it's in sargetica says have the courage to be as no thing and see the world as it is no thing have the courage to be as no thing just stay in the heart without the concepts!

that might present to you what you are stay with the being the nothing you don't know what you are just stay with that the mind will tell you shit of course that's its job but just ignore it stay with that and have a courage is there anyone to have the courage no but it is something that may inspire you to just keep that attention where it belongs rather than focusing into the translation you know the mind is only interpreter don't worry about interpreter it is mostly wrong can I say something when we have a fixed idea about anything watch how it creates dis ease when there's a fixed idea so you have a fixed idea about the you and then you have a response to that and that creates dis ease within you or feeling of ill at ease or resistance just watch that just watch that that whenever there is any dis ease or any feelings of resistance watch that and see that there is only being that the rest is just a translation or a fixed idea about a person place or thing are you the persona are you the image are you your image are you no no that's right you just are you just are the rest of it's a story the narrative you know you began by saying I'm very identified with the body that's the narrative and that is the enchantment that we put upon ourselves I'm very identified with my body how can you get away from that it's a story that you're telling yourself and that's an enchantment so you believe in it so the thing is to investigate that story pull it apart is it based on anything what's it based on sensations sensations come and go there's no ground you see words don't have any being the story of me doesn't have any being it's about a fictional character and to be free of that is actually very simple but it seems very very difficult it's the last thing we want to give up is the belief in me because if I'm not me what the hell am I nothing nothing how can any suffering attach itself to nothing no thing the spirit you know what is the spirit who has to get rid of anything you see it's the enchantment it's always the pseudo subject me has got the problem but it can't solve it because the me is a fiction it's not real so you're not alone I mean everybody on this planet faces the same issues but they are actually nothing that's liberation from a non-existing bondage the bondage of self is a fiction because the subject the pseudo subject doesn't have any substance so that belief that somehow it's very internalised and believed you can only get rid of it by investigation it's like it's like Mickey Mouse is a cartoon character you see him on the screen the screen is just a flat flat white thing and the movies of Mickey Mouse is there he's a fictional character he's not going to jump off the screen and come and steal your popcorn oh he's not going to come and punch you in the nose and the me is like that it seems so real and enchanting that's the enchantment the belief in being the separate entity after all we get all our suffering out of it and our joys but it's all fictional anything to do with me is a fiction across the board it's a fiction but you know thousands of ways of seemingly getting drawn into it because after all it's all about me you know it's all about me it's not about you or it's all about Bob or it's all about whoever you know it's a fiction can you find a self centre in there somewhere no there's no static point anywhere in the universe that's a it's called say that's a scientific fact so it's all energy moving constantly but we've been suggested to us that we have a self centre and that you're responsible for your actions and blah blah blah blah blah but we have this ability or this possibility or potentiality to investigate and see if this self centre has any substance is it something that can stand on its own and be separate from the whole no how could it be that's all we have to see and then the bondage of self dissolves because the belief as Bob says we create this cage of belief and we put ourselves in the middle of that cage and it's all made of concepts but it doesn't exist it's like he used to talk about the bird that's been in a cage for ten years you know he can open the door it's not going to flyackers has been there for so long in this cage of belief it doesn't even have the idea of freedom but it yearns for it it sings about freedom all the time but the bird in the tree outside he doesn't care about any cages it doesn't you know nature is already free and flowing and you are the nature yeah and you are that how could you not be that's that's beautiful I have a really nice comment from Bradley as usually he says and that see if that will make you laugh if I was me I would never talk to me again so how about that I mean the way we actually engage in the inner dialogue or inner monologue or inner commentary it is all about me everything that's happening is all about me and we have another one this is from Vivek mine ego gives strength to the illusory cage illusory mind illusory ego seemingly gives strength to the illusory cage it's all just dreaming and Michael says hi beautiful Bob and Kat and Cole watching from Thailand brilliant that you offer this for those who can't be there much love from Michael yes yeah it's Sunday afternoon for Americans which is Monday morning for Aussies and Tuesday night and Thursday night for Aussies which is morning for Europe and Asia we have Zoom meetings and we welcome everyone to join Zoom meetings and Martin says good stuff so yes I also got an email yesterday sometimes the questions come we prefer to actually engage people and Bob speaking directly because that has kind of a different energy but the written words have its uses so I was answering an email yesterday how do you recognize that life moves through you that it's not the ego the me that makes decisions or choices but is the life moving you so how do you recognize that movement of life in every way like Jesus said recognize thee in all thy ways that thee is the Lord's presence or just simply presence or being or life or radiance of that essence see how can you easily recognize it the very easy ones that Bob is often pointing I'm just going to grab it it's probably going to be easier is to you not beating your heart you not pumping your blood you not growing your hair you not digesting your food you not making filling up your bladder you not even bringing up the thought oh bladder is full I need the toilet or I'm hungry I need to eat you not bringing that thought you not thinking that thought you not doing the seeing you don't even know how to start seeing like if you could experiencing just recognize thee in all thy ways recognize that life essence moving you like what makes you have that hand here on that leg right now or tilt your head this way what makes you have this beautiful smile of yours now it is the life it is the movement of life and very easily as you see the easy ways where you recognize life obviously you don't grow your hair!

you don't you don't even choose what you going to eat in Sofia if you will see how the thought comes and that thought will be charged oh this seems attractive or this doesn't on one day this is attractive on another way it isn't you don't know how you are doing it you don't know how those electrical impulses are connecting in the brain and calculating every single factor that is affecting your decision making you can recognize life in that and very very quickly you will see there is no space left for the me to do anything at all where is the me what can me do if life is recognizing all thy ways if life is moving you to think if life is even moving the attention you look around the room some people focus on the lamp some focus on feet everybody is conditioned is moved by life to even choose the object of attention you see the life moving in every single aspect you will very quickly see that the concept of me is absolutely unnecessary completely redundant it's just a fake false concept which just clouds everything you see the hormones are going up and you are edgy or irritable but you know that is the movement of life now you don't have to engage in the ideas oh I shouldn't be this way oh what's wrong with me I have to do something about it I need the therapy oh this is the conditioning oh this is a trauma all that narrative is also life moving so because it's not you and it's not personal you don't have to really take much notice of it you can just see oh whatever and just you know listen to that inner narrative the same way you would listen to somebody else's inner narrative which is basically irrelevant and boring see your own inner narrative as the same irrelevant and boring and stay what is direct experience the seeing hearing tasting touching smelling watch the movement of life life moving you giving you the next thoughts life giving you the next scene to watch this is another way you know you can take it from investigating seeing if there is anyone there who is taking credit for that who is sad who is hungry who is happening to and you will never find anyone or you can just look from the life's perspective and you are one with life and you see how life is just swimming just dancing and experiencing just you know do it for a few hours or one day and see if there is any space for that individual for that imagined self to drive that bus because maybe there isn't and in that case you can just fire it suck it yes darling!

Gilbert told me 500 times that it was simple and I didn't believe him and then I went oh it's actually really simple and what changed was that realizing that every time I was looking for it I was moving away and I just had to acknowledge that that was a moving away from and in fact it was a lot simpler than that because it already is and so it's a dropping of the idea that there is some sort of thing that can be achieved by moving away from it there's a golden heart under Bob I don't know if it spontaneously manifested or was secretly placed there I saw something dropping from the sky there is!

I saw that fall from somewhere yeah it must have fallen from some of our blink activities hi first I really love the talk and the comments I thought they were really insightful so thanks I was wondering if Bob has advice on whether it's recommended to stay in that unity indefinitely versus to switch between recognizing a separate me and not and there's sort of three brief thoughts that hung on that and one was that I feel like it's a beautiful compelling philosophy resonates very deeply but then I also feel at dis-ease with delegitimizing the feeling of me that you know young lady in red was expressing the second is that recognizing a separate entity seems to win you in some sense utility the image in the mirror might not be real but the utility of using it can be real and the third would be that it seems to win you some form of morality maybe not the only form of morality where recognizing a separate entity allows you to protect him or her so beautiful question although it assumes straight away that there is a choice I can choose to be in the me or to not be in the me there is a me that is real and you can choose to subscribe to you know switching that now I'm the totality and now I'm me this is what I was telling if you see the movement of life life will move you whenever the body needs defending or protecting it is the instinct already present and that instinct kicks in whenever it is necessary the same survival the loving to be is beating the heart the same loving to be will if you find yourself in a dangerous situation will create fight flight freeze response whatever is necessary and I love those philosophies and those questions because I can see how they come from compassionate heart you know if I'm just denying the me what about compassion what about feeling for other people what about ethics what about morality and then when you look at the animal's world is there a feeling of compassion is there a feeling of you know like helping one another is do the tiger mom looks after her cubs even without the story that there is a me doing it taking credit for it yes it is naturally happening we are naturally inclined and the more happy we are the more naturally we share the happiness the more miserable we are the more we tend to hurt people hurt people hurt people so the more I stay in the idea of me there is something wrong with me me means I'm separate means I'm somehow less than total even if I have good self esteem and I have good opinion of feeling about myself I'm still less than totality so there is really still something missing there is a sense of incompleteness separateness I'm not fully happy from that perspective I will be much less helpful compassionate and loving towards the love towards the world and the reflection of me than from the perspective that oh yeah there is just life there is all one life your own one life I don't have to worry and be preoccupied and be self obsessed about my interest and my me me me so I can see someone just falling give them a hand I can see someone being sad because the attention is not preoccupied with self obsession it naturally creates the movement of attention where it is required it naturally brings like see Bob is over 95 all well most of his life is being available for people who suffer and he doesn't suffer and he doesn't go into the me to feel compassionate to relate this is already the mirror neurons and all the bio computer is already conditioned in the way that whether there is a narrative or belief that I'm separate or the narrative is off or the narrative is on but it's just not believed to be reality whatever the body is moved to do whatever is the conditioning it will perpetuate itself just like in the natural world but I love when people ask those questions and you wanted to comment on that I'll just be quick but I just when you talked about suffering then I thought maybe it relates to what you were talking about but I recently moved from Sydney to Melbourne and I had to go to Vic Roads so I think I know suffering I didn't suffer at all but I've been thinking about who the me is and I recently when they sent me my new license card the photo was like a white old woman and so I don't know who the me is basically but I do know that I have to go back to Vic Road so have a comment from JB who says wow what a beautiful meeting lots of great sharing from everyone thank you Bob and Kat me quote unquote is just a narrative identified or attempting to identify as the doer the reality itself that it narrates is always prior to the narrated story what a good point see the reality is always prior to the commentary about it the narrative is always after immediate cognition so how can it be who we really are beautiful yeah absolutely and Kelly says to British Julia forever grateful for the connection yes and then unless anyone has an urgent comment we are about to share lunch if anyone would like to join us that's about it for a meeting if anyone wants to check on some books and cards and drop a coin to the box to you most welcome thank you everyone thanks Bob thanks Kat thank you