This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Nisargadatta Maharaj, Lovie, Lovie, Lovie, Hess, Nabi, Paul, Kesson, Jesus, Jesus, Michael, Josh, Dean, Paul. Well, it's the same old thing we talk about. I keep repeating it all the time. There's a scriptural saying, Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. How would you renew your mind? Keep reminding yourself until it sinks in and the truth is realized and recognized. So, I say the same old thing to remind yourself for a start off. If it reminds you, well, then good. If it doesn't, well. Yeah. I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. I understand that from the outset. and the this, I.
I. I? to a Tis- the to. I. to. the and theivo. the I.ivo. the theivo. the w ow.ivo. the p.ivo. theivo. theivo. the and theivo.ivoa.ivoa.ivoa. hithi. tp. tp.ivoa. ask you to look to where we're pointing to and see for yourself. Because no matter what you've heard or no matter what you believe or like to believe, nobody can tell you anything or teach you anything. Because what we talk about, they tell us in the scripture, it's non-duality in the Veda. And Veda means non-duality, one without a second. There is only one God, if you like to use that term, one essence, one intelligence energy or whatever label you like to put on, that's functioning, patterning, shaping and expressing as all this manifestation.
And they tell you that this manifestation is Maya, it's illusion. You and I and everything else appearing in it are illusory patterns. It's the one essence, the one life that's expressing through all of it. And we need to look at that and see for ourselves. Because nobody can never do it for you. We think somebody's going to tell us and we'll realize. But all that will happen is you hear it and it resonates. That innate essence that you are feels something well about it. You feel well or lighter or something like that. And it grows in you from then on. But because it hasn't been recognized, they call it ignorance.
And when they say ignorance, we think we're saying we're dull or stupid. Not meaning that at all. That means that we've just ignored it. It's been there all the time. But we've ignored it. We've been told we are this person, this separate entity, this individual. And we've taken it on board. Somebody asks you who you are, you'll say I am Bill or I'm Jay or whatever your name might be. So you've got this personality. The person is not the real. Comes from the ancient language, persona, the mask. So we've got this conceptual image of me, Bob or me, Bill or whatever your name might be.
Or Jane. And that's not the reality. What you are is the one essence. I expressed that at Vader you are saying it's Sat Chitta Nanda. Nama Rupa. Sat is existence. Chitta is consciousness. Nanda is loving to be. And the Nama Rupa, the Nama is the name and the Rupa is the body. And they say Nama Rupa is my illusion. More appearance. This whole manifestation appears to be real. And they call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly so. When you look into it and investigate you'll see it's not so. And they tell you also that the false cannot stand up to investigation.
So we need to investigate and see for ourselves. Another way I put it is I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm speaking to that I am that I am. And that I am is the sense of presence. Not the thought or the word or the... But to say I am you're expressing that sense of presence and knowing that you are. As the thought I am. Just unless nothing else. So investigation, am I this body? You say my body. You say my house, my car, my coat. Are you the house? Car or coat, you're not. So maybe you're not the body either.
Am I this mind? You say my mind. Show me a thing called mind. There's no such thing as mind apart from thought. What's thought? Sound. What's sound? Word. What's word? A vibration. A movement of energy. The same with the body. What's the body made up of? Elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. Take the water out of your body, how long would you last? Take the fire, the body temperature, you die up with it. What did I say? I said the water, did I? The air. Stop breathing the air. So when you investigate, you see you can't separate yourself from those elements.
You wouldn't be there. And all those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles into pure energy. So that's all this body is, a vibrating pattern of energy. That's all this manifestation is. A vibrating pattern of energy. So Einstein told you that years ago. It needs to be recognised. They call it the cognising. The Buddhists call it the cognising emptiness. We think we're doing the cognising of the emptiness or the knowing. But it's not the emptiness itself. That life essence is living and breathing your heart, growing hair in your fingernails right now. It's causing these thoughts, feelings and emotions to happen. And he made a statement then.
And he made a statement then that emptiness is form. Pointing out that all this manifestation, including you, me and everything else, has these forms, are empty. He said emptiness is form. And he said the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. But they're thermally vibrating, just like a reflection or an image in the mirror or something that appears to be real. And when you look into it, there's no substance whatsoever. It's no thing. Now what's it all appearing in it? What are we in here right now? Aren't we in space? This room is full of space. Space is the seeming walls around it, the space you can see through.
Now does space have any centre to it? Can you find a spot where space begins? Does it have a starting point? You can't find any beginning to it. Does it have an ending? Can there any boundaries to space? Can you fly to the end of space? You can't. It keeps going on forever. But can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? What would it be in? When you have a look at it, you know, anything it'd be in? Any other, the Earth, the universe, or whatever you like to call it, they would be in space also. There's nothing that can be outside of space.
Everything is the content of space. Space is no thing. Try and grab it. Do something with it. No boundaries to it, nothing. You can't even feel it. It's not space you're feeling. It's the air of the air. It's the air of the centre space. Appearing in the space. Space is no thing. If space is no thing, can something come from no thing? It can't. You and I, the trees, the flowers, the stars, the planets are things. But the things itself are no thing. They're still the space. That space, they can call it God if you like. I don't use the term God here because it can get you confused with that term.
All the different traditions have got different labels and labels for God so you can get confused with it. I call it intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing. Anybody who is not knowing right now, and you're sitting there and saying, no, I know. The knowing's there. Not knowing this or knowing that, but pure knowing, pure being. Knowing the ing on it. Knowing the ing on it is giving it the activity. Any activity is a movement of energy. So what's what I call intelligence energy, the activity of knowing. In the Bible it tells you, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word was God.
That's all God is, the word. All things were made by him, by the word. And there was nothing made that was made without the word. Isn't that so? You've got words for all this manifestation. That's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the space, that's the tree, that's the thing. All words. Now is the word real? Try and drink the word water. Swim in it. Drown in it if you can. Wash in it. You can't. The word fire. The word fire. Can it burn your mouth if you speak it? Can you cook with it or heat yourself with it if you can't? So what's this word I or me?
Is it this body? Is it this mind? We think it is. Or is it the very life of you? If that life, what we call life, wasn't in that pattern you call the body, how many words can you say? Call it existence, consciousness, bliss. Anyone who is not existing right now, you know I'm existing. Of course I am. Anyone who is not conscious. Anyone who is not conscious. Yes, I'm conscious. I'm not unaware. So if you're not unaware, you must be aware. Because you can't tell me what that awareness is. But have a look. If that awareness was there, could you say anything at all?
Wasn't there? To walk about it or do anything without it? But the awareness was there first. And then the words which we picked up along the way have come upon it. The concepts. Anyone who are not happy to be. Anyone who are not happy to be, you know what we did right now. So of course you're happy to be. That's the sat shittanina. Being, knowing, and loving to be. And take that word being. It's not becoming. Or not what will be. It's being. Becoming implies a future time. And when you look into time. And when you look into time, you'll see time is a mental concept also.
Is there a past if you don't think about it? You realise, without a thought, I can't say there's a past. You realise, I can't say there's a future. But do we believe there is a past, we say, I was in the past. Well try and live yesterday. Try and live a moment ago even. You can't go back and live it. You can recall it. And you can't recall it all because a lot of us, you can't recall everything that happened when you were little child. A lot of us, we got into it. But there are some parts that will stay there in the memory. So there's no past unless you think about it.
What's the future? What are you going to do when you leave here? You don't know. But you'll anticipate and imagine. So the past is dead, it's gone. The future is anticipation and imagining. Imagining. Imagination. As the Tharkadatta tells you, nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Now look into that. All the troubles we've got and all the problems we have. If I wasn't imagining this and that about them and conceptualising it, where could they lodge? What could they be? The fears, the anxiety, the stresses, the guilt. All the psychology that comes about. Because we imagine this. Break that word imagine down to image in.
And that's all we're doing. We're creating mental or conceptual images. And the energy of belief is going into them. And they're seemingly real. And that's quite easy to understand. Because when we learnt words. And our parents told you you were little Billy or you were little Jane. And you took on the idea, I'm little Jane or little Billy. And then on somebody asks you, you say, I'm little Jane or little Billy. I'm this. I'm that. You've got that label. Instead of saying that what they're talking about and pointing to, it's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing as everything. The one intelligent energy.
The one life. Christ told you that. And he says, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't talking about himself. Because he's self, the personal self. He's a fiction. There's only one self. The admin. The primary self. The godly self. If you like to put it. So when he's talking about. I don't know why I'm trying. He wasn't talking about it. He was talking about that sense of presence. And the very knowing that you are. That knowing is expressing as the thought. I am. And that's the way to go. As the Sarcata says, stay with the I am-ness.
And we hear that. We take that the wrong way too. We think we've got to use it as a mantra. And keep repeating I am, I am, I am. Well you can do that for the rest of your life. Not going to do you much good. But the I am as a sense of presence. Are you aware of being presence right now? And you can't negate it, can you? Yeah. But we don't rest in it. We take on the concepts and ideas. And think we have to become something. If we do this practice or look at this and do that. We will become. But what is becoming?
Becoming implies a future time. It's not what is right now. And have a look at time. Time is past and future. It's not the spontaneous moment right now. And that's all this moment is. It's spontaneous. It's got no time, no space. It's a spontaneous emanation. Comes up and disappears almost straight away. And it's fixated on it. We keep it there as memory. But it is absolute. The one essence is absolute. Or in Buddhism they call it the great perfection. Now the great perfection. What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. What can you take away? Nothing. It wouldn't be perfect if you took it out of the way.
From it. The same with the absolute. You can't add anything to it. You can't take anything away from it. It wouldn't be absolute. Now if you recognise that. I am absolute. Nothing can be added. Nothing can be taken away. Who can ever be superior to you? Who can ever be inferior to you? Who's got this idea he's better than I am? Or I'm not as good as this or that? And what would you want of the other persons? I want what he or she's got. Or I don't want that. All this functioning that goes on in the world. And wanting this and doing that and fighting with one another.
Why would that have to happen? If you realise. That the earth is yours and everything that's in it. Is yours. Already. And you are that very same essence. That's patterning, shaping and forming. And we've got this belief. That we are this person. That has to become realised or enlightened. And becoming as it implies a future time. Being. Being. So being. Can never be becoming. Being. The I-N-G on it. Is something that's happening right now. You're not was-ing. Or will be. You are being. Right now. Take the label off it. Human. Human. Take the label supreme. We call God the supreme being. You call yourself a human.
Take those two labels off it. Try and negate your beingness if you can. You're sitting there right now. You can't say. I am not. You know for certain that you are. But we don't take it for granted. We take it. Because we've got this conceptual image. And everybody around us. Is reinforcing it. We settle back into it. We've locked into it for many years. But some recognition or recognising. Stirs in you. When you hear this and you resonate with it. That resonating is a recognising. That I'm a little bit more than what I think I am. And it's this way. And there's a sense of well-being in it.
A warmth. And a compassion. And the joyousness of being. And it grows on you. Until it's stabilised in it. And that's what needs to happen. And it goes by itself. Once you get the taste of it. We don't need to do this or do that. But continue to recognise. Have a look. Is this how it is? And you see if it's a word or a concept or an idea. And you're not the word or the concept. And they say let relax. Let it relax. In its uncontrived singularity. It's a singularity. Which we're contriving all sorts of concepts. Ideas and images. Relax into it. I am that.
Yes. That is that. That's the great mantra. I am that. And we all know it. I already know it. Because that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the room you're in. That's the space in the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. That's the bird. That's the stars. That's the planets. Everything is that. Which we put labels on. And discriminate it. And take it in a word to be the real. Put it in the names and forms. As I say name and form is my. It's illusory. But it's non-dual. One without a second. You are the absolute. Don't forget it. Real. But you can't go around telling everybody the absolute.
Well they'll lock you up. But know it yourself. Be absolutely certain of it yourself. And see how it expresses them. See how it changes you. Because a lot of you know it in here already. Because you've been coming along. Something has made you look a bit further. And you look into it. And you can't help but see it. Sometimes it might take a while. Because we're locked into the conceptual images. And have been for years. And it's easy to fall back into it. And 99% of the population are coming from that point. And they start talking. They can easily suck you back into it. But stabilise in it.
Settle in it. And nobody can never knock you off your perch. Instead of them sucking you back in. They'll get curious and see what. I want what he's got. Or she's got. And you'll have another look. And hear it. And resonate with it. And it'll start. And let it happen from there on. Be open to it. As we say. We shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit. And all these problems return again. But be open to that light. The light of life. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the light. Christ says I am the light of the world. And don't hide your light under a bush.
What is light? Light is the very life of you. Light. Light is the very light. How does that light form in your body? Well. You're attached. To the cord. Umbilical cord of your mother. And that's where the light of life comes into it. So why would they call it the solar plexus? They call it where it comes in the solar plexus. Why would they call it that? What's the solar? Sun. Light. That's where the light comes into your body. And that's what light needs an apathy to shine out of. It's closed in darkness. What's the shine out of? Your eyes. And here it's on the love light in your eyes.
The light of life. It shines and expresses through you as that light. Be the light. Be the light. Be the love. The joy. It's going to be the miserable, poor human entity that's unhappy, fearful and anxious and doesn't want that. It doesn't have to be that way. I was that way for years. And it didn't happen overnight. The seeing through was instantaneous. But for all the rubbish to clear away, I had to let it settle. And letting it settle and recognizing it, you can't help but see, this is not what I am. And the detachment from all this story, we've got the story going on, which we attach to.
And attaching to the story, the story continues and brings up more and more concepts and ideas and keeps going on and on. In our memory, how big a story have we got? I did this and did that from poor me and blah, blah, blah. Detach. Let it be. Unfixated awareness. Be utterly awake with the five senses wide open. You're hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling. They're the five senses. Be open to them. And if you're open to them, you're not shutting yourself off from them. You're with life itself. But if you're fixating on the good, the bad, the pleasant, the painful, whatever it is, fixating on one, you're shutting yourself off from the others.
But if you're open, you can flip from one to the other and you're not bothered. But if you enclose yourself in one of these concepts, or I'm not good enough, or I'm fearful, or I'm anxious, see what it does to you. It erodes that sense of peace, goodwill, and love, and warmth to communicate. There's a way and become miserable, unhappy, sad, fearful, anxious. It doesn't have to be that way. Recognise that you are that. What we've done is we've taken on all these beliefs. You believe we are this person because they're peristals. We believe we are this and they are that. We learn a lot of it at school.
Take on the beliefs to be real. But have a look at the word belief. Look up your dictionary. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Means we haven't reasoned it out, we haven't looked at it, we're just taking the ground, oh yes, I'm this human being, I'm so and so. Just take it for granted and we function from there, whatever we believe in. Acceptance. it goes on to say, an unquestioned belief of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact. The fact that we are this has been alleged by something. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof.
And if it's a belief and you look into it, it'll fall apart. Because they tell you that too also. The false cannot stand up to investigate. And know the truth. And the truth will set you free. The clues are already there. All need to be looked at. Been there all the time. And they were never recognised here. They weren't even looked at or bothered to be looked at. So circumstances turned it around. Took me where I needed to go. And there was a seeing of it. And it's still growing here. Still growing. Getting better and better as I go along. And the body's falling apart and it's not going to last through.
But it doesn't matter. And know that when you say something doesn't matter, what does that mean? It hasn't solidified. It hasn't become solid. If it's not matter, you can let it go quite easily. It's still spirit. So you see, spirit and matter are two ends of the one stick. They're not separate. Spirit is the essence of something. Like you've got a good scent or something like that. Like perfume. And the essence of it is the smell, the wonderful perfume of it. But it comes out and comes as the water or the thing and solidifies. It becomes matter. So there it is. You know that. You know if something doesn't matter, somebody says something that you're not even, you're not taking it on board and not concerned with, you haven't let it matter.
Does it worry you? No, you let it go. Or the other thing is somebody will do something and say, can I do this? And you'll say, I don't mind. If you, you know, you're not concerned with it or attached to it, no, you don't mind. And if you're not mining and it doesn't matter, is it a problem? When we take it on board, it becomes a hell of a problem. There'll be anger, the fear, the arguments and the pipes and everything. You want a bit of peace in life and a bit of joy and a bit of love, a bit of warmth? Have a look at these things.
Investigate it. Know the truth. And as I say, the false cannot stand up to the investigation. And the little bit that does hang around, keep remembering and reminding yourself and even that will go away, I'm sure. Though it hasn't already gone, a lot of it here, but it's better as I go along. That's what we talk about. That's what we point to. And a lot of you know it already, been coming here a while and you've investigated, you've had a taste of it and you can talk about it just as well as I can. Nobody better or worse than what you are. And so that's why we open it up and let everybody have a say and express what they know and what they understand.
And in doing that, it might be said in a different way to what I said here and somebody might, it's not resonating with this, might resonate what's being said and take it on board and bring them into it also. And then it can be passed on again to others. And that's the way it's always happened. Way back thousands of years ago there was only a few that knew about it, could understand it. And then they corrupted the bleeding that God was something and added all sorts of concepts to it. Tell you in the Taoist from a thousand years ago that the Tao that can be spoken about is not the Tao.
It's not it. You can't put words or concepts on it. The great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction however and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. Now what's heaven? The so-called sky, space is heaven. What's the earth? Isn't it rolling around in space? Are they apart? Can they ever play a part? Of course they can't. But the same with these sorts concepts. When we separate them and they can partly cause duality, relationship, relativity, problems. That's what we point to and away you go. Get in.
Thanks, folks, buddy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Am I fucked in deep sleep? Yes. So what Bob was just inviting everyone to express the way you actually digested it, the way it resonates with you, that will help you and everyone else and that will be just a delight of expression. so we have 40 people, 44 people with us online. Wow. So please contribute the online community and the people who are here. Just, yes, the mic goes to you. Anyone would like to start? I'd just like to say, firstly, thank you, Bob. That was very beautifully put. I really admire the way you remember everything, all those quotes and you say them with such energy that they really resonate.
Thank you so much. And just one other thing is I feel is the interesting thing is everything that you speak about is just what is actually always the case. So but it's just all the concepts that we learn along the way that makes it anything other. And that to me was a very eye-opening seeing that actually just everything you're saying is what's actually already going on. So everything is actually already done and dusted so to speak but it's just a matter of seeing the false as we continually say here which eats away that sense of what is not true. But the fact that it always has been and will is and will be and time is a concept of course is always the case.
yeah thank you Bill. Yeah as you were saying that it was just so evident that the only it's almost like the only thing you ever have to do is right in this moment is just let go and it's so funny because there's such a deep pattern of projecting and planning and you know once I do these things then then you know I'll be there or whatever and there's just this beautiful kind of realisation here that it's just right the only thing you ever have to do is this moment remember that that's it there's nothing else like what is is and yeah it's just really beautiful and you I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Bob and Kat, can you speak a little bit on what you feel the role of the mind and trauma is in the awakening as the person awakens or comes into self?
You don't want to start? It is a trick question because a person doesn't awake to start with, of course, but I know it's just a problem of the language. The conditioning, the trauma, just like you see, it has its place, like you see the trauma in animals, it has its place. And it does not prevent, it does not accelerate because animal is always in the natural state. So if the animal, let's say the wolf is trapped or the dog is maltreated or the cat is abused, they do develop, the brain does develop a response which in a moment seems to be aligned with the survival.
And in the long term, of course, it isn't really that helpful anymore. Like when you think of a human trauma, you think of, let's say, war veterans or victims of the abuse who develop certain strategies of surviving in the moment and those strategies are carried along the way when they are not necessary and they somehow create more suffering. So with the animal's trauma is a fact as well as with humans that the animal that will be, let's say, conditioned to respond in particular way to particular behavior of people, it will still continue with that responses. But over time it resolves and it doesn't create the sense of resistance or the sense of wrongness in it.
And the natural state is all pervasive whether the trauma is there or the trauma is not there. With humans, of course, we relieve our traumas. We have another set of software which is the narrative. And sometimes relieving the trauma may help resolving it. Sometimes relieving the trauma reinforces it. There is no one, I would say, one size fits all approach. Bob usually answer in a situation like that. But if you go back to that silence, to that place where you are and see what spontaneously comes up. Because there is a place for everything in the appearance. There is a place for therapy, for acupuncture, for meditation, for anything that spontaneously arises.
Only the narrative which will keep reinforced certain stories and it will keep the trauma in place. And even the story that the trauma prevents me from the awakening, of course. Everything prevents the me from awakening. Me never awaken. So any story that is really there is, yeah, it's not really a trick question. It's a question of every individual case being completely individual case. Because again, it even boils down to the defining trauma. Because if you would ask Bob about his first 30 years of his life, I can't tell you how much trauma has happened there. Not to mention he almost lost all of his teeth in fights, in humiliation.
He's been fired. He's been abused. Tons of it. And I don't know if you could point one person in the world who does not have one or the other traumatic response. Even through the way the brain develops, when it starts conceptualizing space and time and the mother disappear or caregiver disappear from the perception. And that could be translated by the computer, by the machine as a trauma and it may cause the responses. So on some level everyone has one or the other of those responses. We may label them trauma and blame them and be victimized. Or we may actually see them for what they are.
As sometimes again Bob says, what conditioning is there if you don't think about it? Is there a trauma if you don't label it so? What is it if it doesn't have that staining heavy label on it? It's just a conditioned response. And that conditioned response, if it's attended in a way that nature resolves everything with the non-judgmental clean space like awareness or attention that doesn't try to fix it or resist it or modify it or correct it. That pattern also is in the process of resolving, of resolution. Unless of course it's still necessary for survival then it persists. Do you have your own experience or your own contemplation or thoughts on that?
No, it's just I think when we're coming down in the car today we're talking about family constellations. You know, the kind of trauma that is inherited down family lines and things like that. And it's just something about patterning in behaviour. So whether you identify it as a trauma, particularly in family lineage trauma, as a trauma specifically but there are some behaviours or conditioned behaviours which may not be yours or may come from somewhere else. Yours in that the person hasn't directly suffered a trauma. But it's an inherited trauma. But it is, to me, I've been contemplating it because of the, of course in the present moment and spaciousness there is nothing that attaches to anything.
But still, you know, at different stages for this one here that, you know, there's contractions. There's still reactive behaviour and things like that. So I just try to understand it in that, in that sort of, you know, that kind of picture. Yeah. And just interested to see what your ideas and thoughts were on that. What is it? Yeah. Thought, feeling and emotion, that's the way it functions. Thought will come up first. Yeah. Then the feeling will bring a sensation. And we label that sensation, fear, anger, depression, whatever it might be. Yeah. And the words we've got on the label makes it worse than a lot of things are, you know.
Yeah. It's recognised as just a sensation when it was labelled and we fixate on it and stay with it. Instead of detaching from it and leaving it, change, which it'll constantly do. So we keep it there and reinforce it, mainly. Yeah. I do sort of see them like pools, you know, in a clear river. They're like eddies or something. There's a contraction. Yeah, yeah. I do sort of feel and understand it like that. But, you know, I was just wondering in terms of its deepening into presence, that those things clear themselves eventually or, you know, what their experience is, you know, without actually having to deal directly with identifying that there's drama and that there's a story associated with it and things.
Because, you know, there's a lot of stuff that does come up subliminally without really any memory or anything. But it's just a feeling or a sensation comes up, you know. And so that is, you know, I've been contemplating the place of that within the deepening and presence, you know. Because, you know, it still comes and goes. Certainly a lot less than when I was a younger woman, that's for sure. But certainly a lot less. But I was just wondering what your perspective on that was. Yeah. All trauma and all, and their resolution occurs in the fundamental space of being, doesn't it? So that in itself, it shows us that everything is already resolved, really.
And, yeah. Also thinking about dogs and so on. If you lock your dog in the boot of a car for two hours, it'll still be happy to see you when you let it out. Tony? Tony. So the truth. Yeah, I sort of felt there was a curiosity here to see what would it be like if the river was flowing. And that was before I even knew there was something I saw as the truth. I was just sitting in my life, like waiting to see if there was such a thing as a meaning to life. And then eventually found out in duality, oh, this makes a lot of sense.
I have to go to another country and understand that. But I've just found, because I'm just constantly flicking back into the bubble of reactions and not being present all the time. So even though when I'm knocked out of it, out of the being present, I'm like not very angry or anything. I'm quite chilled, chillaxed. I'm quite, I guess, in terms of personality development further along in that respect, more open-minded, less self-protective. But I'm constantly triggered. So lately I just found it was more, I don't know, there's more of an interest in sitting at the coalface of all these things and exposing them. So, and then seeing the kind of things that show up and there's just a process of exposure.
And I see some other people do similar stuff. And it's really just when you sit there, you know, you might be observing sensations in the body. You might be observing emotions. You might be observing voices that come up. And then those phrases, there might be with them a series of all the times those same types of people said those things to you through your lifetime. There might be like, you know, it's the imagery of being in a toga being knifed and you like to see images of like, but you don't really label it as anything in particular. You just see these scenarios going. And then people have like given me notions to follow like, okay, so if there are aspects of here, this package that doesn't want to let go of some of those things, you know, let's ask all them, you know, what's going on, what are they feeling?
And then just things arise like, oh, give affection to that or just a bunch of different things that are probably scattered throughout all literature on this. Just come up to expose everything really. And then I tend to need to write it as I go because I think there is a deep pattern in here of needing to constantly explain my, tell everyone my observations in case there's a silver bullet that saves their life one day. Also another giant thing to sit with and then have disappear would be nice. So yeah, this, and then quite often things in my life become easier. This is a lot less reaction going on.
So due to this process. And when I came here after a couple of years of COVID, you know, I could sit here and like all the thoughts would go instead of just a few of the ones or, you know, I used to come here to go, oh, I'm supposed to be letting go. Oh, I'm here to let go. Oh, I'm here to let go. Then it was just like an hour and a half of not really any thought happening, you know, just sensations being more evident for these things. Yeah. And it just seems like here there is an interest in seeing what that flowing river is like.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm clarifying a bit more in my mind what I was trying to say that before as well. Thank you for that. That was really useful and interesting. And the thing with coming home to the self, it's a process that never finishes. It keeps deepening. That's my understanding. That's my experience. It's, there's no end point to it. Mm-hmm. And in that process, things come up to be shown on the surface of consciousness. Things are, so consciousness is not separate to the body and the emotions either. It is that as well. Mm-hmm. So that as the, um, as the presence deepens and becomes more still, I think more things float to the surface somehow.
I don't know, is that your experience? Has that been your experience? It's been my experience, but I'm just wondering if it's been your experience as well. It's a process and it deepens. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. That will look in nature. You know, it can be a calm day, it can be a windy day, it can be a terrible storm and all the rest of it, and it's very destructive. All sorts of things. Nature enabling, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this traumatic experience today and I'm going to suffer. It settles now. It takes, you know, all the different patterns we can get in nature. The same thing in our mind, but we put the label on it and exaggerate a lot of it, the label.
Was there a period of time when, um, they had to be come up to be seen or expressed and then let go of? Uh, anything from the... Yeah, well it all comes up. Yeah. A lot of it was not experienced, especially just take, take it as it is and sink into it and make it worse. But then you, as you are now, you investigate these things and probably see the difference. Mm. And as the whole, as the whole thing deepens, it becomes less and less important, less and less meaningful. And as Bob says, you know, when you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Because initially from the human, uh, perspective, human consciousness perspective, all those things are so deep and profound.
You know, the family feels, the trauma, all those, they are so attractive. Those stories are so seductive, they're beautiful. And then there is so much heart involved in healing, in resolving. That is very, very human-tinted consciousness. And as it really, as it deepens, and it doesn't deepens because awareness is already there. But as that human, uh, overlay, things up, as it's more and more kind of, um, the whole rewiring happens, the importance is less and less on that, on that human story field. Those things, they keep coming up, but they are, you know, like, initially you look at every cloud, oh my God, this is so much meaning in it.
And it's so much story. And there is, you know, and all unpacking stuff comes with it. And then later on the cloud pass and you don't even call it cloud anymore. Because it doesn't really have any, it doesn't even get much attention anymore. So initially it feels that things come up to be seen for the last time before they let go. But even that is a story because they may be seen again or may not be seen again, but there will be less charged. And, yes, yes. Initially enjoy it every moment, every bit of it, that it is so, you know, beautiful and, and so attractive and, and so human.
Enjoy it because the time may come when it will be just, just part of the content. And the, and the being that shines through, it will be just so much more radiant that the content will not be, it will almost be translucent. You see through, through it. And it doesn't take attention. But that takes rewiring because we are conditioned to, to always give attention to objects. We are conditioned to look through, not from the heart, but through the mind that is interpreting things. So that really, as it, as it eases off more of the relaxing from that interpreter to the heart where everything is, is equally welcome in that field of being.
Yeah, that's kind of, that attraction stays there. And it, and it is to be appreciated because it is beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, you know, a crack in the plaster and have no spiritual thing to say. So I'll pass on the. I think the crack is the spirit, my spiritual thing you've said. Thank you. I'll just say, I'm, I, I really loved your spiel today, Bob. And, and it, and, um, um, I found it really like heartwarming and very loving. And, and, and, and, and, and the light and spirit. And like, I remember sitting here once asking you, Bob, what, what is this chair?
Like, what really, really is this? And then you described it as matter and which is really spirit in its, and, and, and, and, and it's like, wow. You know, like, if you see that, like, um, then everything is made of the same, everything is this light energy and like vibrating. And, but so are the thoughts about it or about the me, made of this same stuff. And, um, and then you can only conclude that it is one essence, nothing appearing as everything. That's really a vibrating pattern. Um, I don't know. I just felt your, you know, coming here so long and, um, listening to the spiel, sometimes it's very dynamic.
Sometimes it's almost, you know, really, oh, sometimes it's soft. Sometimes it's this, like, it doesn't, it's, it's always magnificent. Like it's just, and you could interpret it from a psychological level, from an intellectual level, from a heart space, from a different level altogether. And it's just, um, unfathomable sort of energetic or, or whatever. So what? Like, it's all, it's all the same stuff. Um. And that's what you just interpret, I mean, you know, it's a very national, recognizing itself. Yes, yes. It's the same thing. Like, um, yeah, and it's just beautiful and just happy to be here, uh, with you and, and some of the people in the room.
But not, not all of them. Not all of them. No, I'm only joking. Thank you. Wonderful to have you here. Uh, wouldn't be the same. And then we have a couple of comments from people who are online with us. And Bradley says, trauma is a story from the past made real in the moment. Is the story attached to the person or the person attached to the story? When the nature of thought is seen, trauma or fond memories above that. Whatever you give attention to is made real by the thought called me. Beautiful. And Amana says, I is the first label hidden in all labels. Any label or silence, both are phantom creations in mind.
That is movement of thought. And Bradley says, subliminal body experiences are not possible without thought. They are just so closely laminated together that the body feeling gets the attention. And Bradley says, things are continuously arising, none more special than the other. Only the me attaches to it. Trees don't shed bark. Bark naturally falls away as the tree grows at the heart. Beautiful. That is beautiful. Hmm. Amana, there is nothing like spiritual and non-spiritual. Both are labels only. Yes. So that's that for the online contribution. Thank you. I was just thinking, you know, it's that thing, that process of deepening into presence, into self. And you know, Ramana disappeared for 20 years.
You know, he was disappeared out of the body. No identifying with the body or very little. But he came back. He came back. He cooked in the kitchen. He yelled at people. He organized the buildings of the ashram, blah, blah, blah, as a person. And of course, he was a trance. You know, the burnt rope thing. You know, that looks like a rope that's actually burnt, you know, from the inside. So, so not the, not the person person, but still a person's life, a human life being lived. And that's the thing about, um, the idea that with, uh, uh, living wholly in the self that the person disappears.
And that's not true. There is still a person that's being lived through or is having a lived experience. There's a personality and a person, um, even though, uh, the burnt rope can still be in presence, you know. So it's the appearance of the person, but, uh, spaciousness is evident at the same time. Because it was renowned with Ramana that, even though he, he used to read the newspaper and all that sort of thing, you know, just like everybody else, but he, um, still people in his field fell into deep stillness when they came near him because of his burnt rope thing, you know. So, um, so it's that, that thing that I'm trying to feel through, you know, um, or, uh, yeah, to feel through, you know, concepts and, not the concepts, I know it's not concepts because it's the mind, but there is a, there is a person having a lived experience, a human life, but the self-consciousness is still and the life is appearing within that, understand that, but there's still that thing about, um, um, that the person does not disappear.
What is it? The word person comes from persona. Yes. The mask. So the mask is only a concept. So it appears to be a person, but in reality there's no such thing as a separate entity. It's all that one is. Yes. Seemingly separate. But still seems... Well, it'll still appear to be. Yes, I agree. So, yeah. So, yeah. But still there seems to be a human existence of, you know, we have to eat, we have to go and pay bills, we have to go to the toilet, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That seems to also have, um, uh, is an experience of consciousness experiencing itself through living, through the life.
So, um, so there is the wedding. I think what I'm getting at is the wedding of the deeper, um, sense of self within the human experience, you know. Yeah. There's something, um, uh, somehow I'm getting, um, that seems to be, um, something that's, uh, uh, calling my attention at the moment. Yeah. And wondering, um, how that is for others. Yeah. We're all, I know there are no others. At one level. And then another level. You want to comment on my part? Oh, definitely. Don't have to answer that if you're sorry. All experiencing. The experience and the experiencer are the concept. The experiencing, the ING on things, the activity, the reality.
Being, the way that experience and the experience of the concept. The experiencing, the ING on things, the activity, the reality. Being, the way that experience and seeing, feeling. The ING. Something that's going on in the moment. I experience or I see. You're relating it to the separate entity, which is just a concept. And as you say, it appears to be very real and so on. Close to that. Because we'll reinforce it constantly. And also what you say sometimes, Rob. It needs, the life needs the pattern. Yeah. To express truth. Yeah. Without having the body-mind. And of course, every body-mind is already equipped with those behaviors, which we call personality.
And now, again, it depends on the definition. You may call person what I would call personality. Like, look at this person here. That one has distinguished personality. It's completely different to her brother. And yet, she lives in a natural state. She doesn't have a concept that she needs to awaken from personality. And get rid of personality. And she still needs to go to the toilet and feed herself. And yeah, so that's part of the pattern. For the life to be able to see, it needs eyes. So it dreams itself, the body. So there is a perception. And perception is already dualistic. Because it is governed by the mind.
By the computer which interprets things. So there is already 10,000 things. And that little creature, she also sees objects. But she doesn't conceptualize separate means. She doesn't conceptualize. There is a person there. And there is no person out there. So it's just like Bob is saying. One field of experiencing. And in that one field of experiencing, there is purring happening. And she doesn't say this is my stomach purring. Or my voice box. Or this outside me. None of that. It's just purring. Like the analyzing is happening. Oh, the Ramanath is this, this. Analyzing. In the field of experiencing, it's analyzing. But is that a person doing it?
No. It's just what's happening. And seeing the world in this way, there is constant experiencing. The singular experiencing going on. And if there is an overlay of division, me, I didn't, I need to do this. Or I need to, oh, it depends. All that happens within the happening. That's the happening. Age pattern is a unique expression. You could even tell, you know, when you, if you had more than one car. Even they seem to behave in some sort of, we have this another, you know, like the face recognition pattern. We also have the anthropomorphizing pattern. So we could say that the animals behave like humans or even the cars behave like humans.
And again, this is just the pattern. Do you want to add something? Just the flip side of what you're doing. Yeah. Like probably for me and a lot of people, like we don't, we're not amphitheater or whatever, about animals. So we don't tend to think, so that cat zenned out. We wouldn't tend to think, oh, now it's a different, you know, person. And then normal cat is like a person. We just tend to think, oh, that's nature happening. You know, nature's doing cat. And then if nature zenned out and bliss for a couple of weeks, we'd just assume nature's still doing cat. We wouldn't tend to see it as a cat person versus cat happening.
If you know what I mean. Yeah. Sorry, I've probably confused you more. I think. That's good. Perfect. Well, just one thing on giving deference to a lot of the teachers, Ramana, Bob, Christ, Buddha, whoever these people were, were just ordinary people that soared very deeply into their human nature. And then I think the overlay comes from other people interpreting their behavior as though he came back and became an ordinary person and lived an ordinary life. But perhaps we should question that. You know, the deference we give to these so-called enlightened masters, even that word enlightened masters, you know, question that. I think that's very important because it actually then interferes with our own looking because how could I ever be somebody of that caliber?
You know, it really puts the whole thing totally out of perspective. Beautiful. Yeah, Bob often says messenger rather than, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go on, Peter. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it's funny, all this evening I've been thinking of cats and I'm not really a cat person. I did have one when I was a kid. But, you know, I see cats in the street and I learned so much from cats. You know, they, and, you know, one of the things that's happened is that there's no need to give an explanation of a lot of this stuff that goes on and the reasons for it and why it's happening.
You know, it just happens that way and it's a wonderful relief not to come up, have to come up with an explanation for it. Yeah, I think that's about it. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. As Nizaga said, you can learn from every passerby. Everywhere. And there was a funny story I heard once Alan Watts was making a joke of, oh, maybe it was, maybe it has happened, that there was a seeker who projected, had a projection of a master in his next door neighbour who was an insurance seller or something. And he would catch up with this guy and with that projection he would fall into a deep silence.
And then he would ask the insurance seller a question of life and he would give a vague answer. And that vague answer in the seeker would grow into a profound truth. And that's what we often do when we actually have our projection someone is a bullshitter. Now you'll never hear the word they say. And this is life behind that bullshitter. This is God, another disguise of God. If you would be able to see everything and everyone, every child, every animal, every cat, every tree, as another face of that Absolute dressed up in a costume, there is nothing you would ever need to learn from anyone because that projection is a pure clarity already.
I had this young guy that came to me once and he thought I was really spiritual or something weird. He was like, what do you think I know? And he sat there and had his talk and then he sat on the ground in front of me and I was drinking and I fell asleep. And he thought I'd enter this deep meditation. And he sat there and he was doing his breathing in front of me. I didn't know, I was passed out. He went off for like half an hour. And I wake up, I go, what the hell are you doing? You idiot. But like at that time, for the moment, you know, he believed something or whatever.
Yes. I think Nisargadatta talks about something, someone else, I don't know, but it's like at some point in your like journey of experiencing the deities, the teachers, the masters, they're all very real. And then they dissolve. There is none. There's actually nothing. There's none of that. None of that's actually real or true. And then, but then they, I think it's like the same Zen sayings, you know, before enlightenment there's a mountain. And then, or then there's something about mountains and you know the story. And there is a lot of violence in the universe, yes. It's like that. And then all these gods and deities and whatever masters that they, they, their stories become so unreal.
And they absolutely completely dissolve in the one essence. And then, and then the stories come back again in a, but they're playful. They're, they're not serious any longer. That's all. I'll just shut up. No, that's beautiful. Excellent. What's that? Yeah, definitely. There is a path. It's a well-known spiritual path of bhakti, you know, of devotion. And, uh, following through the heart, leave the mind and just follow the heart. And any deity that represents something they can relate to is what, is what that is, that path is. And that's a known, excellent path to dropping the self. So they all have a, a role, those things, I think.
You know what I mean? Like they, um, and in, of course in India, where I'm not here, And of course in India where I am, it's so bhakti. There's temples on every corner and so many people go into rapturous, you know, during ceremony. But that's a known path and it's not a bad one for a lot of people. A lot of people it's good because the mind drops. It's not having to investigate the mind in any way or the self. It's straight from the heart. These all have a role really. Yeah. That's where it's sensed in the heart. It's not the physical heart they're talking about.
Heart is the core of being, the centre of the spirit. That's right. Fell around here somewhere. Yeah. I don't think you can really dismiss anything. I agree with you. And as you said, you know, these things come back again. Everything comes around again. It's interesting to note that you referred to the great master, Miseric Gaffer. In the conversation about dropping our need to worship the great masters. That's amazing. It's interesting, isn't it? I think what we're really looking at is what we see. What we see is ourselves. That's the only thing. Like if you see the great disembodied, you know, ashen rope thing in Ramana Maharshi, then that's you.
That's you. That's the key, isn't it? You only recognise what you are in truth. It's like they say that the Indians, you know, when the first ships came to the New Land in America, that the Indians didn't even recognise the ships. They couldn't see them. It wasn't part of their experience already. We have a couple of comments from people who are with us. Amana says, And Jyothi, best thing about cats is that they don't seem to look for validation from anyone. Amazing. Amazing. They don't suffer from low self-esteem for sure. And Amana says, To catch hold of elephant, false elephant is kept. Similarly, master is imagined as limited body-mind complex creation.
Center is the center. It's the center. And the other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. And the other.ivo. is a little.ivo-reout. I'm a little. I'll grab a card. Or you'll grab a card. Pick one. This one? Okay. You can read it. Oh no, I'll do it. Okay. Because I have the mic.
Oh, you can do it now. No. Okay. So, this is a beautiful sunset. And it says here, Mind, duality, works in interrelated opposites. It can't work in any other way. It grasps things. It can't grasp nothing. Anything. Any trying is futile. There is no answer to life in thinking. Very simple. Very obvious, isn't it? Of course. How could there? How could we ever resolve anything through question-answer? There really is no answer. The question itself is just the appearance on the screen. So, it really is like Anita was saying. You know, the bhakti is just dropping in the heart. But the fun thing is, there really is no difference.
Because it seemingly feels like there are two paths. You know, the jnani or understanding and the bhakti or love. And now, who is doing those paths? Some people go there. And some people go there. There are no people. There really is just a description of something which seemingly, from the hindsight, feels like there was a process of getting clarity from the confusion. But really, like Miss Argadatta was saying, or was it Miss Argadatta who said, you know, the ultimate understanding, when you understand ultimately, you know there is nothing but heart. And if you feel completely and to the fullest, the clarity is included in it.
So, whether it is seemingly going to a mind and analyze forever and contemplate and answer questions and find logical explanations of things, you end at the place in which you realize that, oh shit, that only takes me that far. Just drop it. You put it aside. You're done. You spent 10, 15, 20 years dwelling in that story. Okay. Just give up. Surrender. The mind doesn't go any further. And then naturally, as the mind goes aside, naturally, the light of love shines forth. And the other way, I know people who are on the bhakti path. And I knew people who were. And they committed suicide because they were so attached to the experiences of light and love.
And the moment experiences were obscured, the light wasn't worth living. That's the pleasure addiction. Whether the pleasure comes from worshipping or the pleasure comes from any other source. That didn't take them to the point of understanding that behind everything is the same light. Which is the understanding. So that love, that true love, when you really sink to the heart, without needing to explain and justify that he is my guru and she is not. And when all that stuff is really discarded and it's marinated in that light of love, it makes itself evident that it is nothing that is not it. And he says, like, when I'm nothing, this is wisdom, when I'm everything, this is love.
Or nothing or stillness is wisdom and everything or movement is love. So every movement is really movement of love. There is nothing that's not it. And he says, between those two, my life flows. Yeah, the me comes in it. My life now, my experience, the individual experience goes in between. Because if there is no in between, there is no experience. Experience can only be dualistic. Experiencing is the singular field. But experiencing nothing, experiencing everything, nothing, everything. That's true. Every experience is by its nature dualistic. And that's lovely. Because isn't it wonderful to just be and experience and just experiencing the sunshine and the hunger and the poverty and the richness and all of it.
There's no real difference when the mind switches off. Absolutely. There's no real difference between the stillness of no thought and the movement of love when the mind switched off. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You're not thinking about it. I was going to cut. Yeah. Yeah. And Amana says, mirror mind, seen as object and personalities. We miss the mirror and phantom reflection seen as reality. Sure, the I, sue the I, sue the I. It ends that best suicide which is natural like a dream. We've got ten minutes to go. Yeah. So the good news is that I or the person or the entity doesn't really need to be, nothing needs to be done about it.
Because it's not real. So Amana says, I, suicide or I, surrenders. Yeah, they're all pointers. But really there is no death required. There's no death of the ego because there's no ego. What is to die? What is the ego? People have concepts of what the ego is. It's a new word. Maybe a hundred or twenty years old or something. And it represents the identity, identification. But the identification can be seen. And when it is seen, when the tendency to identify, and you actually even see how many identities you can switch through during one single day. You go to work and you're an employee. And then you have people who are subordinate and you are a boss.
Or you're a counselor. Or you're a friend. Or you're a daughter. Or you're a son. Or you're a son. Or you're a whatever. How many identities? How many egos? How many costumes is that life or that being putting on and playing on the stage? But this is all known. And once it is known, it is known and it is enjoyed. And nothing needs to be done about it. It goes as it does. Just like the cat. She was sleeping a moment ago. Now she's playing or pairing or whatever. All those roles she's playing. And her brother as well. Through the day. And nothing needs to be done about it.
There is nothing to fix about it. And just being that space in which nothing needs fixing. That's the true liberation. Nothing needs fixing. Nothing needs seen true. Nothing needs done changed. Nothing. Just as it is. That's it. Any movement or any effort that this phantom me will make to try and resolve itself or dissolve itself or see the non-existence of itself can only reinforce its...! Totally! The false nature that it's actually a thing. So it just can't work. Yeah. And that's it. Hmm. Bob, what have you learnt from your three cats? They're all above me. What is it? They're all ahead of me. I come last.
Cats win. No. No. No. You're the center of the universe. And the cats... All the three cats, no. All the three cats perceive him like a sun. Revolve around. We have the comment from JB. He says, I'm sure this is just repeating more of what is pointed at, but the one looking for liberation is a concept and can exist only within conceptually created world based on memory and imagination, which are also concepts. What is there minus conceptuality and objectification? Freedom from knowing is freedom from concepts and objectification. That's a beautifully put statement. Yes. And Amarnassus' eye is neither real nor false. Thanks, Kat. I'm a bit like yourself, Bob.
I've got three kids and a dog. And I found myself sitting on the floor and I looked at everyone up on the couch as there wasn't room for me. The dog was up there. Just one thing that I've been playing with this week is the idea, because I know the netty-deddy idea, and Bob says, you know, you're not the cat, you're not the carpet, you're not the couch. So you're not your hat. We're not all these things. But one thing I've been playing with is something else that Bob says, you know, I am that. You know, that is the chair and so on and so on.
But just whatever comes up, just saying, I am that as well. So if it's a thought, I am that. You know, if it's discomfort, it's that. If it's the sound of the car, the cars or the traffic, it's that. And you can't separate yourself from that. That's just another fun thing to play with, like everything that you sense or feel or I am that. It's actually practice. Of course, one of the most difficult things to say in India is that I am Ramana. I am Arunachala. Nobody wants to hear that. I am that. Yeah, I heard someone saying that I am is the truth. And everything that goes behind the I am is a lie.
I am is the truth and the way. Although it was Jesus, wasn't it? I am is the way. I am is the life. I am is the truth. But what I am, the objectification of that sense of presence. is just slipping off the razor's edge. But yeah, it could be interesting sort of practice. It's because, as Bob says, you can't separate yourself from anything. Because everything, you as the awareness, everything happens within that awareness, within that field of conscious awareness. Traffic, the room, the people, the thoughts, the feelings, the pains, the dreams, desires. All of it happens within that field. So, obviously, if you are that field, how could you not be, how could you be isolated, separated from particulars?
Yes. But yes, identification as particulars can be a little bit of a fun mindfuck. What is it? Rumi, wasn't it? Says something about the field. He says, I'll meet you there. Oh yeah, where everything's gone. Like concept thoughts. There was a field. I forget what it is. Exactly. He says, I'll meet you there. Yes, which is a beautiful poetry, but a paradox. Because if there is everything gone, there is not I and no you. But yes, poetry has its own. Misaka Dada's words of wisdom is that I am nothing and love, that I'm everything. You could look at it another way where the traditional practice of nedi-nedi is negating.
So, it's basically, it's really simple. It's really just sticking with the I am and not adding a damn thing. Yeah. Right? And that is wisdom. That is the same thing. And then the other way, and I think it's, it was, I'm not very learned on these things, but the other practice of, I think it came from the richer part of India where I am every, I am that, I am that, I am this, I am, so that's love is that includes everything. So, I am everything. So, you can explain like Misaka Dada's teaching in those terms, in traditional practices. Wisdom, I am nothing or nedi-nedi, I am not this, I am not that, I am the I am.
And then, or I am all of it, which is love. I don't know if that is useful to mention. But I might explain something. And we have another comment from Amanas says, And J.B. says, Great spiel today, Bob. Thank you. I'm wishing you all a great post-meeting meal and get-together. And Heyman, oh, that's the, that's the roomies. Beyond the rightness or wrongness of things, there is a field. I'll meet you there. Thank you, Heyman. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. And yes, what you say that, you know, all enveloping love, that is everything, that I am the everything. It is the everything that is, cannot be separated. But at the same time, I saw a couple of times people getting so high on the ideas, that they would pick a plastic bag.
This is who I am. This is me. And that goes a little bit of, hello, yeah, I know this is exciting idea, but are you actually, is that experiential? Is that the direct experience in this moment? Because sometimes those high ideas can flip us over to the field of imagination that is so colorful and is so, you know, like, like cocaine can do. I don't know. I haven't had experiences with that. But recently. I haven't had experiences with that. I haven't had experiences with that. I haven't had experiences with that. Yeah. So the main thing is that this sharing is not removed from life. It is not becoming theoretical.
And I think we actually really doing well with that. We're really sharing from the heart rather than exchanging lofty ideas and concepts that are completely removed from this moment of experiencing. And thank you for that, everyone. Thank you for your time.